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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On March 30 2013 17:33 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 17:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
WBG was smurfing this game? Who was he?
Any specific critiques of my terrible play anyone has?
I couldn't make a read this game to save my life and I apparently have no idea how to even go about doing it..... I would say: Read more and post less. I would also comb through what dead townies post. It's not all usable, but Ryu should've been hung on the bus attempt I made on him. It was a weak bus attempt sure, but when multiple dead townies are saying the same thing then people really should be taking a closer look.
I'm not sure that reading the thread to look for scum bussing each other is the best strat. Really geript I think you're a smart guy but you overthink scum play a lot. Our double-bus was nice but it was a bit transparent to anyone who looked too closely, and ultimately playing scum isn't about busses or claims but about whatever WBG says it's about.
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You could've stopped at "but you overthink." I do. Well I can't wait to see a full review.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
FWIW I think in the right circumstances you are a better scum player than I have ever been.
as a note, this is my favorite post in the game:
On March 21 2013 15:45 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 15:43 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 21 2013 15:36 Mocsta wrote:On March 21 2013 15:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
There was 1KP N1 and I claimed a hit? What kind of evidence are you looking for? Man.. i have played in a couple town games with you recently (and scum  ) my first game with u was normal mini mafia 4.. it hink you were NK'd night 1. u were a bit crazy that game. but i could tell u was town. the games u have been town.. i can tell u are town.. u have a wildness about u.. but its founded on curiosity im not getting any of that this game... but im not getting any of what i see in a scum ve either.. everytime u do something i like.. u follow up with something i dont like... and the whole mirror logs things is such a cluterfuck. you're the biggest question mark in the game for me.. you really are VE. im relaly hoping you're town and having a bad game.. either that or u work best when u have someone to bounce ideas off.. (and no1 was present for that this game) I'm having a bad game. That's a fact. Regardless of what you think of my alignment, you can see this to be the case (I'm about to be lynched D2, this helps no one on my team regardless which team it is). But all the FACTS point to me being town. It's not just the facts, it's the MEANING behind the facts.
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Trying to make your opponents rage quit by being a huge dick isn't a legit strategy Bugs.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I wasn't trying to make the man rage quit. I was really surprised at how angry he got, and yes I didn't relent when I realized he was mad, but my goal wasn't to make him quit. When he complained to the mods and the message was passed along I didn't post for like 12-18 hours or something so that he'd feel better. Making an opponent irrational by attacking him meaninglessly I think is completely fine, of course.
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I'll side with VE on that. I don't have a problem with shitting up the thread or pushing people on tilt. It's a fine line between attacking the player and attacking the person though.
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In retrospect, should have lynched ryu for calling greymist "GM" even though he obviously knew not to
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On March 30 2013 17:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Trying to make your opponents rage quit by being a huge dick isn't a legit strategy Bugs.
I don't see how spamming = being a huge dick.
By your own words you and Mocsta did much more to hurt your own team than BH ever did.
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I'm talking about you jerk I have no problem with spam obviously.
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I don't try to make people quit as scum.
In fact I'm probably far more civil as scum than town.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On March 30 2013 17:43 RyuSuzaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 17:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Trying to make your opponents rage quit by being a huge dick isn't a legit strategy Bugs. I don't see how spamming = being a huge dick. By your own words you and Mocsta did much more to hurt your own team than BH ever did.
I like to think of myself as a hero of the scumteam but from an objective standpoint, let me put it this way
I was alive for like 144 hours and posted 14 pages of filter. Pretty spammy right
Mocsta was alive for like 72 hours and posted 14 pages of filter. He spammed literally twice as much as me!
E: Also, a scumtell for me is being civil and non-confrontational. I think I was lynched as scum for that in some game, but I forget what.
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Honestly, I thought VE played well considering. I was really trying to find any reason to hang my vote on him, but it's very hard to look towny when you're being unreasonable and your opposition is being exceptionally reasonable. I knew that I was fucked if I kept it there.
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thepeashooter = RoL
RyuSuzaku = WBG
cosmicomics = slo0sh
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It's way too easy to say that scum only won cause BH spammed the thread for like a day
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also, this is one thing to think about:
a lot of people use confrontation as a town tell.
If a player is confrontational, a lot of people say, or willing to take attention, or do controversial things, or say things that are dumb/say things loudly/provoke reactions, a lot of people will get a town read on them for those things.
Using those facts as scum, in my opinion, is hard, but extremely effective.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I credit the scum victory mostly to Kita and Ryu: Kita for single-handedly bringing down the 3p threat, Ryu for keeping everyone in line and eyes on the prize through days of tumultuous town and a silent last few days (where scum feel an urge to post).
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I don't think that's true at all Kita played a baus game. Laya pretty good too all things considered. But the real hero of the game was Bugs for personally attacking everyone on the right track until they couldn't bear the sight of the thread though. 
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On March 30 2013 17:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's way too easy to say that scum only won cause BH spammed the thread for like a day
Oh I don't think this is true, but as I mentioned to TPS during the game; this spammy type of game is all I've ever known as literally every game I have ever played (aside from one NMM) was with either Mocsta or BH or both. I think I may have partially adapted my own play as a result of this and I think from now on I'll do my best to post a lot less--- it seems that people like TPS/Wiggles can get listened to even if they're not particularly active so long as they do a good job.
Alternatively I think glurio tried his hand at posting a few large cases per day but he went mostly ignored...? There may yet be something to your 'no one listens to newbies' diatribe, Geript, though I don't think it's in the way you think...it seems as though most of us newbies really don't have a good handle on the game just yet as seen by our play this game, both town and scum. Zare/me/glurio/you were notably called out multiple times as I read in the scum QT for doing odd things, while everyone seemed to be afraid of other posters who didn't do very much (at least in my eyes) at all.
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Blazinghand in the Obs QT
Mocsta the point is that this town isn't actually incompetent. Town competence is measured in a different way than most people think. Let me explain: During late D1 and N1, when we were discussing NKs, the three NKs I pushed hardest were: GreyMist, Ace, VE, Sandroba, and Mr. Wiggles. I also had a few others I was thinking about, but those guys I really wanted dead. Why? Because right or wrong, these guys are natural leaders.
And although I was initially thinking "I hope scum wins, town doesn't deserve to win this" I really think I've walked back that sentiment. A lot of townies individually played quite well given the circumstances. This strikes me as a pretty average TL town in terms of quality, but a few bad mislynches has deprived the town of leaders. Early in the game, leaders are pretty important. Town is flailing around right now not because this town is incompetent, but because the conversational elements necessary to catch scum have all been lynched or shot before they could really develop.
Zona once mentioned there are different player archetypes and they fit together interestingly. Some players, like me, check the thread a lot and post a lot. Some players check the thread a few times a day, and read the full thread, and post a fair amount. Some players only check in once or twice a day, and post more rarely. Orthogonally, you can also classify town player's skill level / mindset. A small number of townies are actively bad. Not talking about those atm. Another slightly larger group of townies is able to cut through the chaff and find scum, posting excellent cases. These guys, when they roll town, are town leaders. The majority of town players are not town leaders, but can recognize a good and well-founded case when they see one. This is why it's so important as scum to eliminate townies who can lead good lynches.
When we shot VE and Keirathi N1 it was because they are both capable of stabilizing town and leading it. Luckily, VE has a big weakness for pissing contests, so when he survived, I was able to OMGUS him pretty hard and prevent him from being effective at least until I was shot. Our N2 hits were on Vivax and Sciberbia. Normally Vivax wouldn't merit a hit but one of us had gotten a blueread on him. Sciberbia was on our short list of "potential town leaders" along with VE, which is why he was shot. We still weren't sure what the deal was with VE and he was unbalanced enough we were willing to let him live another day. Basically, we were shooting calm guys who were capable of corralling the typical townie, the average player who knows a good case when he sees it but has trouble constantly writing them in the heat of the game. The Lynches D1, D2, and D3 basically helped behead town.
The N3 kills I didn't have input on, being dead, but the VE shot is obvious: the man can't be allowed to gain momentum. All my attempts to fling shit at him died with my flip, which means he was going to be obvious-town leader going into the lategame. The coag shot was more questionable, but we basically shot him because 1) he was gradually catching us all, and 2) some players thought he blueslipped. FWIW I think coag would have been valuable to town at LYLO just because the guy has some good analysis skills, despite what was said.
The N5 kills were a bit funny. We didn't meant to shoot DP/Test, we meant to shoot TPS/Test, but the host accidentally flipped DP and Test and there's no taking that back. TPS because he was gradually calming down, Test since he shot me. DP wasn't the worst accidental NK but not a valuable one either.
You'll note that looking at the list of players alive right now, although it's not like these dudes are obviously bad, there are no leaders to provide direction. Most of the town leaders died via lynch or were really mad when they died, so their last words were not recorded or referenced seriously by the others. I don't think this town was unusually bad, but the leadership was shot out from under them, the thread was chaotic, and a lot of scum players played really well. I'd have been lynched eventually, but town now is rudderless. Ace, Wiggles, VE, Kei, Sandro/Moc, Grey, Scib-- there are a lot of people who might have united town and fought us. Even Ace, for all his follies, at least would have been able to direct the lynch.
explain
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On March 30 2013 17:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
thepeashooter = RoL
RyuSuzaku = WBG
cosmicomics = slo0sh
What the fuck helvetica? Did I say to reveal my smurf?
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EPT
