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On March 30 2013 18:20 syllogism wrote:
People need to stop dismissing night kill analysis. On TL mafia almost never kills to incriminate (not using the other word), let alone leaves someone alive to incriminate them, and Kita should have been basically autolynched d5, at the latest, based on who had been killed by that point. Of course, when I say autolynch, I don't imply that other evidence/context shouldn't be considered, but it's a very strong presumption.
This. Kita should have been lynched after coag and VE were shot. The fact that a universally recognised 'Townie' who was providing analysis was still alive at that point was super suspicious. furthermore looking through kita's filter and the lack of interaction with blazinghand/flying under the radar meant kita was 100% absolutely scum.
Town should have lynched kita over CC without a doubt, and it speaks volumes about everyone's play at that point that we didn't.
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thanks to the hosts, btw, for hosting.
I'd love to discuss the game on the podcast at some point, and it seems like there are at least a couple others who want to participate as well.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Just a really really terrible lynch to finish the game. glurio? jeez.
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On March 30 2013 19:33 marvellosity wrote:
Just a really really terrible lynch to finish the game. glurio? jeez.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! also. Listen to marv.
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Well, I obviously played this one poorly. Sorry everyone. I got a handle on layabout and Ryu and even to a point suspicious about kitaman, but didn't have the confidence to hammer any of those in the late-game.
I'm also concerned with how vehemently everyone went after me for being scum on day 1. I feel like that happens to me every game and I have to fight against the mislynch for the first two days and then most people have a town read on me. I just don't know what to talk about on day 1 -- all these vets are calling people scum willy-nilly based on stupid meta crap or one-liners that actually don't reveal anything, but I'm not allowed to look cautious or else people think I'm scum. It almost feels like I should just be a lurker on Day 1, because I am more of an analysis-type player than a pushing-type player, and I can't just push for the sake of pushing. I don't know. Looking forward to reading the Obs QT.
It is too bad that so many people were modkilled this game. I think with the extra day that would have given us we could have latched onto some scum. But in the end it was my own fault -- sucks to not be killed until the very end and then be on the side of game-losing mislynch 
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On March 30 2013 18:20 syllogism wrote:
People need to stop dismissing night kill analysis. On TL mafia almost never kills to incriminate (not using the other word), let alone leaves someone alive to incriminate them, and Kita should have been basically autolynched d5, at the latest, based on who had been killed by that point. Of course, when I say autolynch, I don't imply that other evidence/context shouldn't be considered, but it's a very strong presumption.
Marv was kept alive in Personality.
I think its game specific though, yeah kita shouldve been autolynched for not being nk'ed and not being very wrong/controversial
Other games, maybe not.
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On March 30 2013 17:22 ThePeashooter wrote:
Even if you are scum, if you are winning purely because you spammed the thread that's not a real win. That would be equivalent to me trying to get you modkilled because I think you are scum. Winning the game through illegitimate methods defeats the point in playing the game.
And I don't believe you will try. I told you how to not triple post, how to not keep posting on your BlazingHand account and you ignored me multiple times and proceeded to triple post.
Im catching up and had to stop here.
I assume its already been questioned but whatever, I complete abhor and detest this type of mentality.
Let me remind you of your reaction to the Ace mislynch.
On March 22 2013 10:25 ThePeashooter wrote:
Do we get the alignment/role of the mod kill? Truthfully I'm a bit happy. Between Wade, VE, and Mocsta they comprised nearly a third of all the posts and I just don't have the patience to to an analysis on someone with a 300 post filter. It took me around 1.5 hours to throw together that case on Ace and write it up when I only had to read 2 pages of content. I can't bring myself to spend a whole day on these people.
If someone wants to kill Wade tonight I'd be the happiest person. I'm a bit tired from work and have to get up early so I probably won't be around much until tomorrow night which is about 20 hours from now. I feel bad for my inactivity and inability to get more reads so tomorrow I will bring forth at least one scum case during the day for a lynch and another for a vigilante/the next day. We are in bad shape right now, but we need to pull together, consolidate posts and do some fucking analysis and we can right our little townie ship and pull through. I don't see a single point in that read where you show any remorse for securing a mislynch.
All i see is a person who cares about having spent 1.5hours writing a bogus case.
Get off your high horse.
You did not lead a lynch on a single scum candidate.
Your play this game was woeful and rarely achieved any of the detailed analysis you berated others for not distributing..
you are one of the last people I am going to listen to in regards to what can be considered "optimal play."
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On March 30 2013 18:00 Ace wrote:
I was asleep. But seriously I didn't even have a ton of time and I thought I made well reasoned posts, trying to keep everyone focused on 1 thing at a time. Somehow I got blamed for "telling everyone to stop scumhunting" and got lynched.
Sigh v_v
You had one believer
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On March 30 2013 18:11 RyuSuzaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 18:04 Ace wrote:
smh that meta shit made re-reading this a fucking pain. half the finger pointing was "yo you aint playin to your meta - SCUM!". yeah speaking of, I read your post about meta and I disagree to an extent. Having talked to Foolishness (and having used his ideas) meta is IMO, a lot of the time, really really important. There are a lot of players who play wildly differently based on alignment. With that said, I can agree with your general sentiment, not because meta is bad, but because it is used badly. I know it's been discussed quite a bit before, but I think the biggest failing is that people associate any change in behavior with a change in alignment. Games are not one to one, and context needs to be considered. Most important obviously though is the motivation for an action, and I think that's a problem with town analysis in general, not just meta analysis. I think the biggest problem town had this game was focusing on the motivation behind the actions of players, rather than simply looking at what they were doing. I know it's stressed in Ver's guide but I still don't think people focus on it enough. It's hard, but I don't think the conscious effort is always there. From a scum perspective meta and motivation are important too; it's how we pegged Vivax as a blue. Both kita and myself pegged Vivax as blue day 1 for separate reasons (read the QT for more) and it was primarily based on the motivation behind different posts he made. kita pegged him on a meta-analysis of his games, and I pegged him based on a single sentence he said. Since both of us agreed on it we were pretty confident he was blue, so he became a priority kill on n2 (though on n1 we chose to ignore him) Agree with this a lot.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Good game all!
Thanks for hosting DrH and oats ^_^
Day four went a bit silly, but I guessed things worked out. Laya was insistent that third party could not win with mafia and that the only way we would both win would be if all four of us were converted. Realizing that we had a player that was threatening to back stab us considering he was an anti-scum faction with the entire scum list, we decided to push cosmic, knowing that we would come out terrible, but removing the laya problem and the threat of the third party potentially controlling the lynch a couple cycles down the road. We had thought that the only logical way that a third party without kp could achieve a solo victory was if he was a cult leader who could recruit every cycle and we assumed that layabout and all his other recruits would die with cosmic.
I think a recruiting mechanic where mafia can be recruited is a bit awkward since it potentially forces layabout to play with conflicting win conditions. He knows the entire mafia team, isn't allowed to explicitly mention their names, but is allowed to push cases on them for their lynch with 100% accuracy. Otherwise, I think the setup was pretty balanced and the mason/vig role was pretty interesting.
The biggest part of our success was probably choosing our night hits in a way to shape town opinion. In the previous podcast, it was universally agreed that limiting discussion during the night was terrible for town. However, this game none of us really felt any pressure from the night discussion and it was a great way for us to figure out where certain players stood.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
by the way, I did think Ace was mafia on day 2 and I did agree with Wiggles' case.
The VE wagon was absolutely ludicrous, there was about a 0.1% chance he wasn't actually town. *No-one*, not even VE, claims 3rd party in the thread if they are actually 3rd party, because the alternative is... not doing so!
I basically thought that Ace, layabout, and WF had outed themselves over the VE incident. Turns out only layabout and WF were mafia, while I had no idea what Ace was thinking.
One other interesting thing I saw at some stage was DYH saying he found it very unlikely that the recruiting role was based or stopped by cutting off the masoning, when it's pretty much the logical explanation. There's literally no reason for anyone to be given the option of cutting off a mason connection ahead of time, without some reason behind it.
Edit: one more thing - my favourite part of the game was the kita-layabout interactions in the thread in the last couple of cycles. I hadn't realised it was because he'd been recruited, and it makes these interactions even more fascinating. I thought kita/layabout were just doing some really good distancing, but having the Mirror subplot behind it makes it even more interesting.
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I still don't get why glurio was lynched.
I will write up some thoughts later but seriously, that made no sense.
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+i couldn't win with mafia kita
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On March 30 2013 23:35 layabout wrote:
I still don't get why glurio was lynched.
I will write up some thoughts later but seriously, that made no sense.
Basically town didn't read/think/ care enough. And just went with the easy lynch. I have never seen MYLO end with such a whimper.
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I apologize again to town for being dumb, sorry Ace.
Question though, for people in general:
Why is low posting activity linked with being scum? I'm not going to apologize for my activity, but it was silly seeing people go from calling me town to saying I'm scum because I couldn't post for a ~24 hour period. Somehow not posting got linked with being apathetic, which I don't believe to be true. I'm not saying that's the only reason people called me scum, but it was definitely a running theme, and I didn't really get it. It's also impossible to defend against without getting into off-topic arguments that serve no purpose.
Nice to see that my reads this game ended up ok, though. Shame I screwed up so badly day 2, I think things could have been different. I ended up having a whole bunch of town reads, but not having entirely strong scum reads because I find spammy people very hard to read, and I found a lot of the posters to be very forgettable when reading through the thread, so that made things harder for me.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 30 2013 23:55 layabout wrote:+i couldn't win with mafia kita
I think I'm still confused about that one then :p
On March 27 2013 16:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Your win condition is to survive to the end of the game. The win condition of a mirror image is to make sure that you survive.
Doesn't this infer that the mirror/recruits only had to survive, not eliminate all other factions?
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town got utterly dominated
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EPT
