EPTThe Game [N] - Page 159
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 31 2013 09:21 cosmicomics wrote: Why didn't he just proceed to bus every member and be heralded as best town player of all time? e: as soon as day 2? I think he didn't straight up bus us for a few reasons. One, it is kinda a douchey thing to do. Two, he figured that there were multiple ways he could win (bus us if things got bad to win with 3P or win with 3P after mafia took over). Three, we were under the assumption that 3P could recruit any number of players opening up a 3P/scum co-win by alternating recruits on town/scum to create a super majority. In short I think he thought he could play both sides against the middle. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
Also I'm sure he considered the fact that if he's catching all these scum, how does he escape the lynch long enough to live, since if he wasn't just bussing he'd just get shot by scum. On March 31 2013 09:41 Ace wrote: Do I need to explain the VE case again? Because I think some of you are overthinking the situation when it's really simple. Stop being results oriented and be process oriented. There is no difference between 3rd party recruiter and Scum: they are both Anti-Town factions. yep, agreed, which is why the whole thing about cosmic being a bad lynch was stupid. Sure, he was 3rd party, but his interest is literally the same as scum's. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On March 31 2013 09:21 cosmicomics wrote: Why didn't he just proceed to bus every member and be heralded as best town player of all time? e: as soon as day 2? I wanted to bus initially but playing as mafia is so much fun and if had gone after them for no reason i think they could have shot me and when i flipped they would know cosmic had converted me and that he wasn't town, so i would be stuck with his wincon and they would kill him. Well i still have the logs with Kitaman but i don't think i told him much mafia didn't already have access to. Once cosmic started to become a target i decided to share with them that i had been converted since i was supposed to keep him alive and he was the perfect person for us to push. When VE was outed as the mirror, they had the chatlogs with cosmic and i think i had mentioned his role being the mirror (can't check the qt since the "all messages" has disappeared). If i didn't want to play with and help the mafia i wouldn't have told kita anything after he couldn't give me the right rolename. Maybe i just wanted someone to talk to, maybe my sleep schedule has addled my brain. I dislike only having the qt and some irc to communicate with your team. For the most part irc was dead and got worse once BH left and the only interaction i had with WBG was him avoiding talking about the game or giving unhelpful criticism/bashing. We also weren't allowed to communicate outside of the qt without hosts permission, irc was fine as long as logs were sent but whilst playing kitaman repeatedly referred to conversations and decisions that were not in the qt that i was not a part of. We were not very well organised and there was nothing more frustrating than deciding what night actions to take only to wake up and discover that you might as well have said nothing because while you were asleep something went wrong. I am not going to sign-up to any more games with awkward deadlines. night one i left with the impression that ve and wiggles would die and either vivax or VE would get blocked, i wanted to rb VE but ryu and kita thought he was blue so should be blocked. In the end BH sent in the wrong PM and they rb and shot keir and shot VE but they had intended to rb and shoot VE and shoot sciberbia. night two the night kills went as planned and it was nice. night three i left with impression that Testsubject and TPS would die. yet VE and cogulation ended up dead. night 4 we decided to shoot TPS and Tesubject. DarthPunk and Testsubject were shot. -_- logs: + Show Spoiler + [23:14] == playa [02db242b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.219.36.43] has joined #MLPfanclub [23:14] <playa> sup [23:14] <playa> kita666 [23:14] <Kita666> hey  [23:15] <Kita666> lol so don't tell anyone, but I'm your cult buddy. I was recruited this cycle ^_^ [23:15] <playa> it's so cool being in a cult [23:16] <playa> not like those stupid outsiders say [23:16] <Kita666> i know, right [23:16] <playa> they don't understand us [23:16] <Kita666> have some kool aid [23:16] == Blazinghand has changed nick to | [23:16] == | has changed nick to Blazinghand [23:16] <Kita666> :p [23:16] <Kita666> good thing this dead noob can't report back to the others [23:17] <playa> | [23:17] <playa> hehe [23:17] <playa> so we play for mafia win? [23:17] <Kita666> what are you thinking? [23:17] <Kita666> not sure what would be the easiest [23:17] <playa> originally i wanted to backstab all of you [23:18] <playa> but that was just cus of the noight actions [23:18] <Kita666> lol [23:18] <playa> if ryu and geript die we could surrender and win [23:18] <playa> but i don't want it to go that way [23:18] <playa> i want to win as mafia [23:18] <playa> cus this game demands it [23:18] <Kita666> hehe [23:19] <playa> nobody on town derserves the win [23:19] <playa> they are jumping over each other to stop playing [23:19] <Kita666> can't compalin about that :p [23:19] <playa> ironically the towniest thing trance has done is try to get replaced out [23:19] <Kita666> haha [23:19] <playa> not sure why thats ironic but i said it [23:19] <Kita666> it must be true then [23:20] <playa> thing that confuses me [23:20] <playa> is how you could be converted [23:20] <playa> i need some sort of questioning emotican [23:20] <Kita666> hmm? [23:20] <playa> well i thought i was masoning [23:20] <playa> then i got a pm saying i was converted [23:21] <playa> what happened to you? [23:21] <Kita666> I got my mason pm, we chatted for an hour, I told him I knew who he was and then I was converted [23:21] <Kita666> XD [23:23] <playa> whgat is your role name? [23:23] <playa> what* [23:23] <Kita666> Devil [23:23] <playa> i gots to be paranoid man [23:23] <Kita666> paranoid? [23:23] <playa> and what is your new role name [23:24] <playa> as in not trusting you, you filthy mafioso [23:24] <Kita666> I was told I remain a fool since my godfather power covers things [23:24] <playa> but when you got converted did you get a new name? [23:24] <Kita666> no, DrH told me I would have, but that would conflict with my devil role [23:25] <Kita666> so I'm still a fool [23:25] <playa> weird [23:25] <playa> very weird.... [23:25] <Kita666> guess it makes me so i can't return third party to dt checks [23:25] <Kita666> can't complain [23:26] <Kita666> we need to convince the other guys not to waste a shot on VE [23:27] <playa> i kept my minotaur powers but got a new name [23:27] <playa> why? [23:27] <playa> pretty sure he wasn't converted [23:28] <Kita666> not according to cosmic :p [23:28] <playa> ahh [23:28] <Kita666> he is just as clueless as us why he claimed tho [23:28] <Kita666> Ve is hard to understand [23:28] <playa> that would explain why he is so willing to die [23:28] <Kita666> true [23:28] <playa> i wonder if he figured out i was masoned to cosmic [23:29] <Kita666> maybe cosmic mentioned it to him [23:29] <Kita666> would make sense why he isnt pushing you [23:29] <playa> i think was a bit too obviuos [23:29] <playa> since i was going to push him over bh [23:29] <playa> well it looks like we are secure in a wiggles lynch [23:29] <Kita666> ya hopefully [23:30] <playa> VE is a bad player for town to have at endgame that alone should be enough of a reason for him to live [23:30] <Kita666> true [23:30] <Kita666> I forget what DrH said happens to us if cosmic gets lynched and don't have access to tl to check the pm [23:30] <playa> We can argue that the green check on TPS makes him the most threatening [23:30] <Kita666> stupid work filter [23:31] <playa> also we don't know if VE was protected and if we don't shoot WoS we need the roleblock for him [23:31] <playa> it's possible VE still has his life [23:31] <Kita666> maybe [23:32] <playa> whether he does or not doesn't matter, it's a risk we don't need to take with a dead medic [23:32] <Kita666> do you remember if we're removed from the game when cosmic dies? [23:32] <playa> what else did you tell cosmic if anything? [23:32] <playa> haven't been told havent asked [23:33] <playa> because it's not going top happen [23:33] <playa> *to [23:33] <Kita666> ah, mind sending drh a pm just in case? I'd do it, but I'm at work [23:33] <playa> i would rather it stay a surprise [23:33] <Kita666> lol I don't like surprises [23:34] <Kita666> need to know if i need to sacrifice myself [23:34] <Kita666> or not [23:34] <Kita666> to save him if the time comes [23:34] <playa> it's a surprise that happens if we have lost [23:34] <Kita666> cosmic mentioned he was looking at ryu or kenpachi next since they were under the radar [23:34] <playa> already [23:35] <playa> hmm [23:35] <playa> to recruit or push? [23:35] <Kita666> recruit [23:35] <playa> if it's ryu [23:35] <playa> i think we can just backstab geript [23:35] <playa> and that would be okay [23:35] <playa> i would feel bad though [23:35] <Kita666> lol [23:36] <playa> thing is [23:36] <playa> if he knows the scumteam [23:36] <playa> he can still win if we die [23:36] <Kita666> true, that's the dangerous part about him [23:36] <Kita666> if he sides with town [23:36] <playa> the other dangerous side [23:37] <playa> is how scummy he looks [23:37] <Kita666> lol -_- [23:38] <Kita666> I wonder what happens in a scenario where its like 2 mafia, 2 third party mafia, 1 third party mirror, and 4 town [23:38] <playa> then it's not endgame [23:38] <Kita666> ya, but we would have control of the lynch [23:38] <Kita666> if he sides with mafia [23:39] <Kita666> hmm [23:39] <playa> which he should since he will win [23:39] <Kita666> this mechanic doesn't make sense if we just decide to backstab the mafia team [23:39] <Kita666> how would we possibly lose? [23:40] <playa> i think we aren't allowed to out our team mates since it would break the game? [23:40] <playa> it's basically like posting a pm or role list [23:40] <Kita666> ya, but we're still allowed to push them for lynches [23:40] <Kita666> and its not like ryu or greipt would be able to shoot us for it [23:40] <playa> kita do you want to know something funny? [23:41] <Kita666> whats that? [23:41] <playa> i have been masoned to town once [23:41] <playa> in about 5 masons [23:41] <Kita666> lol [23:41] <playa> next person to mason me i am gonna push like fuck [23:41] <Kita666> The only mason I can remember is when we got married <3 [23:42] <playa> opposite scumteams [23:42] <Kita666> lol [23:42] <playa> we won that game somehow [23:42] <playa> it was the one where i got caught and called every person in thread mafia [23:42] <playa> with the aid of pictures [23:42] <Kita666> that game was so broken with the way the roles were passed on [23:42] <Kita666> no idea how town lost [23:43] <playa> drazerk was in a pm circle with acro and hassy who had the big powers [23:43] <playa> and they sat back an let him win [23:43] <playa> cus they stopped caring [23:43] <Kita666> lol [23:46] <Kita666> hmm [23:46] <Kita666> how many mislynches do we need until third party + mafia control the lynch? [23:46] <playa> wait [23:46] <playa> If you are green or blue your win condition is to remove all threats to the town, the same as it always is. If you are red your goal is to equal/outnumber the town, the same as it always is. I did not include specific win conditions in the role pms. Sorry for the confusion. [23:47] <playa> do we count as mafia or 3rd party? [23:47] <playa> i know we count towards mafia KP [23:48] <Kita666> hmm [23:48] <Kita666> oh [23:48] <Kita666> i have an pretty funny though [23:48] <Kita666> *thought [23:49] <Kita666> what would happen if cosmic recruited ryu tomorrow, then ryu told him to recruit greipt [23:49] <Kita666> then we all claim mafia [23:49] <Kita666> XD [23:50] <playa> evryone can WIN [23:50] <playa> FUCK IT [23:50] <playa> THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN [23:50] <Kita666> haha [23:50] <playa> can we crumb him to do it? [23:51] <Kita666> perhaps [23:51] <playa> Like cosmic i think you should focus on RYU tomorrow? [23:51] <playa> is that breaking the game? [23:51] <Kita666> not sure [23:51] <playa> no [23:51] <playa> it playing to win condition [23:51] <playa> plus it's risky [23:52] <playa> ther are 17 alive [23:53] <playa> 2 mafia 2 mafia/3p two 3p and 11 townies [23:54] <playa> with mislynches and no vigs 3 town die per day [23:54] <playa> if he converts town [23:55] <playa> then tomorrow we have 4 mafia 3 third party and 7 town [23:56] <Kita666> and that ensures he can't be lynched [23:56] <playa> and the next day would be 4 mafia 4 third party and 4 town [23:56] <playa> yup [23:56] <Kita666> cool [23:56] <playa> but it also assume that town will be converted and they will do so quickly [23:58] <playa> if they take the full cycle recruit like i did then the 3p number will be 1 lower and the town ones will be 1 higher [23:58] <playa> but us two at least need two more mislynches [23:58] <Kita666> true [23:58] <playa> and then we should be able to get the next one [00:14] <playa> are we done here? [00:18] <Kita666> I think so [00:18] <Kita666> I'm going to afk for a bit [00:18] <playa> drh want to see communication [00:19] <playa> but we cant post this in qt [00:19] <playa> should i pm him? [00:19] <Kita666> already did [00:19] <Kita666> :p [00:20] <playa> "[23:33] <Kita666> ah, mind sending drh a pm just in case? I'd do it, but I'm at work" [00:20] <playa> LIAR [00:25] <Kita666> lol he skyped me [00:25] <Kita666> no tl needed :p I have also discovered the source of my confusion about how i won! + Show Spoiler + ...alcohol (no topic set) [01:20] == playa [02db242b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.219.36.43] has joined #MLPfanclub [01:20] <playa> yo [01:20] <playa> kita [01:20] <playa> kita666 [01:20] <playa> we do not count toward the mafia count for them to win [01:20] <playa> also i drink much [01:22] <playa> but cosmic has to alive with the remaining players all form one faction [01:23] <playa> so we need to have all 3p and no scum [01:23] <playa> or all 3p and no town [01:23] <playa> but obviously we can win if mafia + 3p > or= to town [01:24] <playa> we ight also want to consider asking for shorter days since we will need many more | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On March 31 2013 09:43 Blazinghand wrote: FWIW I think the CC lynch was good for town. Town needs to kill 3p to win. No. It was a terrible lynch for town. Town needs to kill 3rd party EVENTUALLY to win. Town needed to kill mafia far more than third party at that point in the game. We should have used third party to lynch kita and or ryu and then lynched cc. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
cosmic's case on kitaman was in my opnion the strongest case in the game and if you overlooked it i would like to know why. *4 mafia 2 third party 7 town ---lynch--> 4 mafia 7 town --2 nightkills--> 4 mafia 5 town and scum still have 2 kp so will win | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
There are two anti-town factions in the game: Let's stop pretending here and deal with facts. No one had a surefire Scum lynch at that point of the day when VE claimed. So saying "lets lynch Mafia" is being dishonest about the situation at best. I even outlined this in the thread: If you believe VE is actually a Town Veteran then you lynch him anyway as he will be converted. You don't stop looking for Mafia either: you just vigi them that night. The town will secure the possible night kill invincible 3rd party, and you kill the most Scummy person at night. There - you've solved both problems with the resources you've been given and you don't need to appeal to either of the factions for help you won't even get, not to mention you don't even know WHO to talk to. But you didn't read this in the thread when I said it did you? On March 31 2013 10:37 layabout wrote: oh and lynching cosmic was silly because for all town new a mafia lynch would have reduced KP, they had a big pool of players that in all likelihood were not mafia (cosmic, VE, test, WoS probably TPS), and lynching him would put them at lylo or, if i was town and the 3p dying killed us both would have given mafia the win then and there. cosmic's case on kitaman was in my opnion the strongest case in the game and if you overlooked it i would like to know why. That's all nice and dandy except...the Town doesn't know the number of Mafia in the game and it's not even Day 3. Lets deal with reality here. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I agree with you about VE but i would do it out of policy. VE wasn't going to bring all that to the thread unless he was still town. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
Lynching Kita>CC Or Kita>Ryu>CC in order to reduce scum KP was a far far better play. In the context of the game state Blanket statements like: There is no difference between lynching mafia or 3rd party whilst blatantly ignoring the state of the game is just ridiculous. There are situations where town and 3rd party recognize that town are so freaking screwed that 3rd party will help town. and vice versa. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [*] + Does anybody else think it's funny that Dr.h uses cylce to mean a day or night and everyone else uses it too mean day and night cycle? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
THE Best comment in game: On March 27 2013 09:18 DoYouHas wrote: Laya says that 3p makes a LOT more sense as an explanation for the Mirror when I would argue that the opposite is true. If the mirror is a 3p recruitmen role, why does no recruiting mechanic make sense? Yes, I've harped on this before. If the town is stacked with 6 powerful roles, 3xVig, doc, det, vet, what sort of answering power does scum have? RB, mason, maybe a GF? That isn't balanced. What would make it more balanced is if The Mirror was a scum version of the Nightmare role. DoYouHas calls out the scum teams roles and argues there is no 3p because it would be imbalanced in town's favor. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Sure there are situations where you've got to play the odds and try to get help - but once again let's be realistic here. All the Town players are posting in public. Even if you somehow got to the situation where "ok guys, CC is on our side for now, let's lynch our top collective Scum reads and buy time" isn't going to work. The Scum team has perfect information and can easily screw with this. The 3rd party recruiter CC is only going to help you as far as he needs to live another day: he'll recruit the most protown player/confirmed town the next night and screw you. Both factions can see your moves and you have no way of stopping them from doing their actions. To top it all off yes reducing Scum KP is an admirable goal but the Town has no clue of the KP formula, the possible roles (as 3rd party Recruiter pops out of nowhere), nor does it know the total number of Scum in the game. Your plan isn't a bad idea on the surface but that is a lot of information missing if you want to take a long shot. Also DoctorH in the future if you're going to mess with converting roles, don't allow them to recruit Mafia. There are ways around it but this is one of the reasons we try not to deal with recruiters. On March 31 2013 10:56 layabout wrote: The mechanic worked around being masoned for a certain length of time* and whoever was masoned could end it whenever they choose. + Show Spoiler [*] + Does anybody else think it's funny that Dr.h uses cylce to mean a day or night and everyone else uses it too mean day and night cycle? So what was the difference between you and VE? Just you got recruited by being masoned longer and VE gets to "dodge" recruitment? | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
Like the two most obvious scum in the thread were pushing a third party lynch hard. That is the time you don't lynch third party. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
(we didnt know this.. but its in the scum QT) | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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