EPT['/['p/ v;/l
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
['/['p/ v;/l | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I wish I knew better what to do Day 1 as town. I never seem to be able to look town enough on day 1. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 31 2013 01:42 zarepath wrote: Sorry, son mashed the keys. I wish I'd been more confident about my reads, namely the layabout one and the Ryu one. I liked both of them as lynches more than glurio but wasnt' around to push either. I wish I knew better what to do Day 1 as town. I never seem to be able to look town enough on day 1. Meh, I was able to read you correctly as town night 1. Beyond that, I really think its just a matter of experience. Edit: Although, I will say that as I was reading through day 1 catching up, I did think "OMG THIS GUY SO SCUM KILL IT WITH FIRE". But, when scib asked me what I thought about you, and I went back through your filter and actually analyzed your posts, I came to the exact opposite conclusion. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
Learned a couple things: I need to take notes Low Activity during day means Town is fucked ... I don't like asking for feedback especially since I'm just going to get flamed but I should start sometime to do something differently. Yeah I know I play like mafia. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Also as a neutral observer, I also thought ace was scum and agreed with wiggles's case on him. Maybe it should have been a hint that he never showed up to defend himself, I can't see a scum ace letting that happen. But the reason I thought ace was scum is really simple to boil down: (1) he continued to push the idea that VE was thief party for saying "I accept", when that made no sense (the idea that by breaking off mason contact, VE ended the recruitment effort, made a lot more sense, plus VE had clearly not received a pm informing him of a wincon change or else he would have not posted that log) (2) he said that lynching this third party was more important than trying to lynch mafia, which I still don't understand (3) he wouldn't discuss other reads or even try and find scum. I guess this can be an organizational tactic but it can also be a great way for mafia to stay slippery and not to slip up themselves, and coming from ace it seemed more like the latter. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 31 2013 00:05 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I apologize again to town for being dumb, sorry Ace. Question though, for people in general: Why is low posting activity linked with being scum? I'm not going to apologize for my activity, but it was silly seeing people go from calling me town to saying I'm scum because I couldn't post for a ~24 hour period. Somehow not posting got linked with being apathetic, which I don't believe to be true. I'm not saying that's the only reason people called me scum, but it was definitely a running theme, and I didn't really get it. It's also impossible to defend against without getting into off-topic arguments that serve no purpose. Nice to see that my reads this game ended up ok, though. Shame I screwed up so badly day 2, I think things could have been different. I ended up having a whole bunch of town reads, but not having entirely strong scum reads because I find spammy people very hard to read, and I found a lot of the posters to be very forgettable when reading through the thread, so that made things harder for me. On March 30 2013 17:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh I don't think this is true, but as I mentioned to TPS during the game; this spammy type of game is all I've ever known as literally every game I have ever played (aside from one NMM) was with either Mocsta or BH or both. I think I may have partially adapted my own play as a result of this and I think from now on I'll do my best to post a lot less--- it seems that people like TPS/Wiggles can get listened to even if they're not particularly active so long as they do a good job. Alternatively I think glurio tried his hand at posting a few large cases per day but he went mostly ignored...? There may yet be something to your 'no one listens to newbies' diatribe, Geript, though I don't think it's in the way you think...it seems as though most of us newbies really don't have a good handle on the game just yet as seen by our play this game, both town and scum. Zare/me/glurio/you were notably called out multiple times as I read in the scum QT for doing odd things, while everyone seemed to be afraid of other posters who didn't do very much (at least in my eyes) at all. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I think Mocsta had it when he said that I was new to DT and just didn't know who to check. I think it was a combination of me not having any solid scumreads that game and having bad luck in checking dead players 2 nights in a row. And as for my failed breadcrumbing, it would have looked more like crumbing if I didn't have to out myself after the very first one lol. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 31 2013 03:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol I also just read the QT; I'm honestly shocked that some of you guys were pegging the scumteam by later in the game and still thought I was scum. I think Mocsta had it when he said that I was new to DT and just didn't know who to check. I think it was a combination of me not having any solid scumreads that game and having bad luck in checking dead players 2 nights in a row. And as for my failed breadcrumbing, it would have looked more like crumbing if I didn't have to out myself after the very first one lol. :o P.S. I wasn't trying to rail on you with my comments about why I found it extremely unlikely you were fake claiming. Dont hate me plz. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 31 2013 03:49 Keirathi wrote: :o P.S. I wasn't trying to rail on you with my comments about why I found it extremely unlikely you were fake claiming. Dont hate me plz. Lol not at all man, you were spot on. I can understand people's points of view I suppose towards my play; I think this game just made me realize just how much I need to change up my play and how much I need to learn about scumhunting. Maybe stepping back and shadowing for a game would help me, but I love playing way too much to step back.  Keir wanna mentor me in some game we're not in together? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 31 2013 03:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol not at all man, you were spot on. I can understand people's points of view I suppose towards my play; I think this game just made me realize just how much I need to change up my play and how much I need to learn about scumhunting. Maybe stepping back and shadowing for a game would help me, but I love playing way too much to step back. Keir wanna mentor me in some game we're not in together? Sure. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
1. Pay attention to thread sentiment. This is important for a few reasons. First, it will tell you who you can attack without people raising an eye at. For example, I thought the timing on my attack on Mocsta and BH was right on. Second, it tells you how town perceives both you and other members of your scum team. This is important because it tells you what you can get away with. Third, it tells you how you will be allowed to sheep onto cases without drawing suspicion. 2. Keep yourself on a need to know basis. You don't need to know what your teams exact plans for NKs are. The more you know, the more you can slip and the easier you will be caught. Voice your opinion but don't focus on trying to run the show. 3. Don't let your teammates edit your posts. Definitely run you post ideas past your team and let them know the direction you're heading in. Definitely have your team proof your ideas for obvious slips and scum logic. Don't let them write your posts for you. You need to sound like you. 4. You need to be reading the thread as much if not more than town does. Early in day 2 I caught myself not reading my teammates filters. Being self aware is important but being wholly ignorant on a group of players is bad. 5. Set a goal. My goal for this game was to survive until I could be bussed on D4. This really helped give me more confidence both to post and to push random bullshit as I progressed. 6. What you don't post is as important as what you do post. Letting the thread take its course is as important as directing and disrupting the thread. Just like driving on the interstate, it's important to follow the pack as much as it is to lead it. Your job is to misdirect traffic; correcting traffic is towns job. Play to both aspects but focus more on the former than the latter. 7. You are the best scum hunter around because you know who is scum. Your knowledge of who scum shows you where players are playing against town perspective; this is a huge trap. This can lead to two dichotomies that you must avoid: being the best scum hunter and being the worse scum hunter. Don't avoid good cases or points that are being made but don't make the good cases for town to follow either. 8. Don't respond to every little bullshit suspicion. I think one of my two best posts was responding to sciberbia's Zare/Geript RNG association post. Find a way to respond and deflect actual cases. You can respond and deflect bad towny logic as you need to to prevent it from snowballing. Responding to every little thing against you or your teammates looks odd, stupid and scummy. 9. Don't be afraid to fabricate your own bullshit. Don't push random stupid bullshit but don't be afraid to push and pressure townies when they've made huge mistakes in order to push a mislynch. At points between mid-D2 and mid-D4 I backed off because I couldn't find a 'good case' to push. You need to create your own openings so don't be afraid to play to your win con. 10. Keep notes on bad towny play. This will really help when you're aiming to push mistakes. Do your homework on meta cases to help supplement your cases. I was sitting on scum meta points on Laya, Kita and DYH dependent on where I needed to try and throw my weight behind. 11. Ask yourself the questions that you expect to be asked from town. You can't anticipate every question you will be asked, but this helps you answer both confidently and quickly--two things that come across as being towny. 12. Don't be wishywashy. The less confident you come off as, the more scummy you will look and the more scrutiny you will get. Posting confidently helps you slide under the radar. 13. Don't be afraid to look a little scummy. Town don't give a fuck about looking scummy. It's fine to look a little scummy lots of the little stupid points are easy to shrug off. Being "super town" is as bad as you have to explain why you're still alive. Aim to stay ahead of the tail but not at the head. 14. Don't hard defend your mislynches. The harder you defend mislynches then the harder is is to attack them later on. Plus, it makes it very hard to not catch attention when you do. 15. Don't answer questions and don't give information. My best post IMO was my first response to Mocsta mid D2 regarding layabout (while on the WoS scum hunt train). If you look at the exchange, I never actually take an actual stance on layabout. Moc asked about people on the GM wagon D1; I then gave a generic response. Moc asked about layabout in specific; I answered by differentiating Layabout from what exactly Moc asked regarding GM and then stated that Layabout looked like he did in LX. Moc assumed (and wrote) that I was saying he looked town-ish. Don't give them an inch of rope to let them hang you. 16. Call people out for bullshit. VE's original cases weren't great. Moc's initial defense of WoS was bad (because he didn't read the thread and assumed) attacking both them AND the mislynch makes you look good. Capitalize on town mistakes. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 31 2013 02:17 strongandbig wrote: I need to figure out how wbg got so completely found out but managed not to get lynched. It was like, somehow at various points during the game, many of the most influential townies made correct cases on him but they never made it a priority and he still managed to not get lynched or even to be under serious threat of getting lynched. Talk about slippery. I don't think it's too hard, but my mentality is basically this: I don't fear (most) players, so even if they are right, I will ensure I won't get lynch traction. Really the only two things I fear are vigis and my own teammates (yes, as weird as that sounds). However, you can encourage or lead your teammates so that they generally are not a problem. You don't have to baby your teammates, just set them straight when they panic or worry about things that should not be a concern. This game I definitely played slightly differently at the least to how I normally do as scum, at least in my opinion. I tried to emulate Ace in being able to influence a lynch while simultaneously taking no/little pressure for it. I tied it to my own style; I think Ace as scum wouldn't necessarily lead a lynch, but I did on day 1. Obviously leading a lynch makes it harder to shake suspicion, but if you stress the validity and reasonability of what you say I think you can get away with a lot. You can basically get away with murder in this game. So, what do I do when someone accuses me? Well, most of the time there is some element of bias or something at the very least that I can refute. Depending on your accuser you can either turn it around on them, or reason it out. I reasoned more seriously with DYH, for example, while I turned it on VE. That's because I predicted what type of reaction they would both have, and I benefited both times. (I expected DYH to back off and I expected VE to attack me more and thus split targets, making him an easy lynch if needed, and making it easier to manipulate his target focus as well) Mostly it's by feel but being able to not get lynched isn't terribly difficult if you always focus on the important things. You don't have to respond to everything either, since it's not what you would do as town. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 31 2013 06:25 geript wrote: Out of curiousity, Bugs what do you think of my points? all good things to remember but I think 7 and 8 are the most important. In fact I would say that you can win a game as scum simply if you know how to abuse perspective. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
On March 30 2013 18:02 RyuSuzaku wrote: that's why I smurfed (not enough time to keep up my posting standard). if I was on my normal acc I would've definitely played a different game. Well, if I was forced to not smurf I probably wouldn't have played, but w/e. + Show Spoiler + also note that I mean I felt like I could've posted satisfactorily, but it would have been less than normal, i.e. I would take a lot of flak from people for not posting enough to my meta Same exact reason I smurfed. Like, I want to play mafia, but I'll have an incredibly tough time playing since I don't have the same type of time available. Can someone explain the layabout's mirror restriction? I assumed if I ever recruited mafia, their win con would change and they would just work to bus all the members, as it is the fastest, easiest way to victory. Layabout, what did your conversion PM say? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 31 2013 09:13 cosmicomics wrote: Same exact reason I smurfed. Like, I want to play mafia, but I'll have an incredibly tough time playing since I don't have the same type of time available. Can someone explain the layabout's mirror restriction? I assumed if I ever recruited mafia, their win con would change and they would just work to bus all the members, as it is the fastest, easiest way to victory. Layabout, what did your conversion PM say? From what I can tell Layabout became completely 3p-aligned. He just got totally suckered when Kita lied and said he too was converted. | ||
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
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cosmicomics
81 Posts
On March 31 2013 09:16 Blazinghand wrote: From what I can tell Layabout became completely 3p-aligned. He just got totally suckered when Kita lied and said he too was converted. Why didn't he just proceed to bus every member and be heralded as best town player of all time? e: as soon as day 2? | ||
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