On March 21 2013 12:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I want Ace to die. As I'm about to show, he is scum, and his head should roll.
Firstly, I will give an overview of Ace's play this game. So far, he has been:
Promising reads on mafia, but not delivering any.
Pushing a lynch on someone based on the
assumption that they are third party, to the exclusion of everything else*.
Talking about general role mechanics/fluff otherwise.
When Ace joined the game, he made this post, indicating that he was excited to join the game and start scumhunting:
Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 11:59 Ace wrote:
I just recently got my role guys, going to read the thread from Day 1 later and start casting votes ^_^
However, since then, he has yet to share a cogent read on who he thinks is mafia.
The closest we get to a solid mafia read from Ace is him calling Mocsta scum, with a small amount of justification, but in the hours that follow before he posts again, he doesn't make any sort of push for his lynch or pressure him. As well, the only other read Ace provides is to call WoS town, but more solid reasoning doesn't come until directly after WoS has claimed DT and therefore put the brakes on his lynch.
Since then, the only thing Ace has provided are more promises of finding mafia and pushing the lynch onto VE based on an emotional push that plays on town's fears while trying to stopper discussion on other lynch targets.
He makes this post asking town to stop talking about other lynch targets and to lynch VE:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote:
Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months.
Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately.
He is then questioned about why we can't scumhunt and lynch VE at the same time, and this is how he responds:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote:
We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.
But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand.
I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz.
Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote:
zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved.
So here he's saying that we should still scumhunt while we lynch VE. However, he has not done that. He has not shared any reads, and he has not provided any information that might help town find mafia to follow his own plan of shooting them tonight. There is no reason not to talk about other scum candidates during the day, even if the decision to lynch VE was unanimous, as it is still time that town can easily use to discuss cases and help formulate targets for a potential vig. Ace has not done this, but instead has continued tunneling on the VE wagon, without feeling the need to do anything else of value, despite posting throughout the day.
Now, I will explain why I find the way Ace is pushing the VE lynch scummy:
Firstly, he does not question The Mirror at all. Ace simply assumes that The Mirror is a third party recruiter and that VE has been recruited without taking any time to reflect on the situation, instead opting to sweep up town into a whirlwind of paranoia and confusion.
Ace is very quick to spam the idea that VE is third party and that he
has to be the lynch, as shown in these posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 01:24 Ace wrote:
lynch VE. now.
On March 21 2013 01:38 Ace wrote:
your right, it's not like a claimed Vet is a confirmed Town sure to get shot because he is running around popping Scum and didn't just say he accepted an invite from 3rd party.
Stop being ridiculous.
On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote:
I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE.
On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote:
Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard.
On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote:
Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months.
Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately.
Within 30 minutes, Ace has posted 5 times reinforcing that VE is third-party and has to be lynched. In later posts, he continues to overplay the threat of VE that he has established, saying that he has extra powers, that he's unkillable, and that we'd have an unlynchable anti-town player at one point. These don't provide any additional reasons for why VE is scum, instead they only help scare town into thinking VE will become some unstoppable third party if he's left alive.
Now, I find this disingenuous, because Ace did not take any time to consider any other possibilities, and he took everything said in the QT at face value. He does not question if The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter, he does not question if VE actually receives powers, he does not question anything at all. Instead, he takes the opportunity of the posted logs to derail the town into a witch hunt and single-mindedly beats in the idea that VE is now third party.
Ace is a very good scum player. He has a keen sense of timing and is quick to seize opportunities presented to him in the thread. He played a very lurky style without doing much of anything until he saw his chance and jumped on VE and his QT logs. Since then he has pushed only this idea, which makes it look like he is actually doing something, while he has done nothing at all, and distracts town from hunting mafia.
This is why I believe Ace is scum, and needs to hang.
##Vote: Ace
Supporting Meta:
+ Show Spoiler +As scum, I find that Ace often likes to waste town's time talking about useless things, while doing only the minimal amount needed to look town. For example, in Sleeper Cell mafia, he got town to talk about a hypothetical situation which had no bearing on the game, wasting time on Day 1. In Wheel of Fortune mafia, he launched town into a discussion of role mechanics and possible set-up plans, distracting from scumhunting and effective play. I see the same sort of play here, with Ace pushing the town into considering third parties and possible recruiters instead of focusing on scum.
Additionally, I would like to contrast his play here to his play in Mafia XLVII, which I hosted. In that game, Ace replaced into the game on Day 2, taking on the role of Vigilante. As well, to put things in perspective, at that time there were over 100 pages posted, and the town was in near complete chaos without any strong town leaders or direction.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=377I was very interested to see Ace's town play that game, and while he was unfortunately modkilled, I think the distinction in play between this game and that one is pretty telling.
In that game, Ace was aggressive and assertive, trying quickly to set the town back on track and get them focused on hunting scum. He wasn't scared to share reads and didn't waste time mincing words. To illustrate, I'll quote his first four posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote:
I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft.
On November 28 2011 08:34 Ace wrote:Also hier and that guy's name that starts with a v were making a lot of sense from my skims. You should protect them at all costs. Everyone else is food.
Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:32 Hier wrote:On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote:
I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft.
Did you replace a mobster?
I roll auto-town in every game I play.
On November 28 2011 08:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:39 Benjef wrote:
Haha I love this Ace guy already. Any reasoning behind your want to lynch Palmer? Hes done a pretty good job of protecting himself so far but I'm still not 100% sold on him.
youngminii isn't a bad player at all. In fact he had a decent amount of posts. Let's keep that in mind.
In any game of Mafia with a day start everyone that is Town aligned has no information outside of themselves barring special circumstances.
Also keep in mind that lynches are used to get rid of Scum.
The Mayor gets his 1 time auto-lynch. Who should he lynch?
Remember, the Mayor
if Town doesn't know who is Scum. He is just as much in the dark as everyone else.
So why would you lynch youngminii?The only justification is if he can be proven to be Scum. But it's a day start, hence Palmar doesn't have enough information to justify lynching an active player.
Typically you want to lynch someone that is inactive or known to be useless. YM doesn't fit either of these criteria. The Mayor abused his power to get rid of someone who he didn't like. Which even if he was Town-aligned shows our Mayor isn't fit enough for office to think clearly and take dissenting opinions without making a bold move.
But Palmar is a decent player (far, far, far below my level but still). So he should know better than to do that. Combine his expected behavior with his ridiculous actions = Scum Mayor.
supersoft is terrible so you want to get rid of him asap. Easily sheeped into doing Scummy things. Very possible he is Scum.
On November 28 2011 08:51 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:43 Hassybaby wrote:Dammit...I was just about to say:
Teach me your ways Ace. Be the Boxer to my iloveoov!
But back on topic, x you asked me to look at super. Well, I had a read through his posts. Didn't see any major scummy indicators IMO, but then Ace sorta came in, so 'id love to sere what he's gonna say about it.
One thing struck me as weird:
On November 25 2011 19:46 supersoft wrote:On November 25 2011 19:38 Ciryandor wrote:On November 25 2011 19:26 supersoft wrote:
this game would be much more fun if i were mafia:
i'd play like wbg or redFF, flooding the whole thread with bullshit.
Just a question, then why lurk? That's like doing a WIFOM of what you are. I know you think that Sand/Palmar's candidacy are the best bets for town, why not provide support for them and at least downplay others' concerns if you think they're townie and they deserve your support?
maybe i dont think that? so far i think
only wbg and redff are town. but these two arent capable to be mayor. they're just too spammy/emotional etc.
if palmar and sandroba fail to convince me, i am going to try to find someone alse.
Something doesn't sounds right there. How can you say they're flooding the thread with bullshit, then say straight after that they're town? They're vets, so they should know better right?
supersoft is a typical sheep. However if he's easily pandering to Palmar and handroba to convince him that just reeks of Scum selling his vote (until it hits an ally).
Now, contrast that to this game. While the circumstances are very similar, the difference in play seems night and day. The Ace in this game is not the same town Ace that I enjoyed watching play in XLVII. In this game, he is not worried about catching scum or providing direction to the town. He is only worried with wasting time and doing enough to make himself look good.
Now, I'll talk a little bit about VE and his logs.
Firstly, there's no reason to believe that The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter. All we have to support that idea, is The Mirror's word, which for obvious reasons we cannot trust. In fact, it makes sense to me that The Mirror is a scum mason. VE already outed BH in the thread as masoning him, and had outed The Mirror rather quickly as well. Scum would know this, so by masoning VE, they can nearly assure that he will report back to the thread with what he was told. This puts the idea in the thread that there's a third party recruiter, which would cause mass confusion for town.
If town thinks there's a third party, they're going to start looking for third party players that don't exist. They're going to point out people as being third party, they're going to want to kill people for being third party, and later in the game when no third parties have flipped, town will get nervous and start looking for third party under the assumption that there's quite a lot of them by now and therefore they're a present threat that needs to be dealt with.
It's a very good, slick, move for mafia, because it costs them nothing (the mason is anonymous), but it causes mass confusion and misdirection in the town from the time it is revealed until the end of the game.
As well, I can't really see VE doing what he did if he was actually recruited. Firstly, why out himself or his new ally to the thread, especially at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. It's much better to keep is new faction a secret, so that they can gain strength. Posting it in the thread doesn't benefit him at all. Therefore, it's much more likely that VE was not recruited.
So overall, I think The Mirror is very likely to be a mafia mason trying to spread confusion.
EPT
