EPTThe Game [N] - Page 109
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Ace (6): TranceStorm, GK, VE, DYH, Wiggles, geript VE (5): TS893, Ace, CC, layabout, Ryu Wiggles (3): Coag, zarepath, kitaman GK (3): Vivax, DP, WoS TS893 (2): WF, Mocsta WoS (2): scib, TPS Mocsta (1): glurio vivax (1): kenpachi | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:34 Wade Fell wrote: moc i don't think TS is happening. let's consolidate onto VE LoL you obviously don;t read the thread properly. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:32 VisceraEyes wrote: WaveOfShadow sir. You have claimed Cop. You are now medic priority #1. As payment for this luxury, you are now required to give your full opinion on the Ace Case by Wiggles. Wat. Why do I have to do that? I'm not voting Wiggle or Ace this time around....at least I don't think. BTW VE I think I'm going to believe your claims. I see a young me in them, railing against world for the silly plays he made. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:35 DarthPunk wrote: LoL you obviously don;t read the thread properly. Those are the two epople I'm willing to lynch and nobody is vote ts | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
But also cry a little inside. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:37 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not railing against anything. Why are you unwilling to lynch Ace? On March 21 2013 13:53 WaveofShadow wrote: This may be the worst reasoning for a vote I have ever heard. First of all, can you name all the people who haven't voted for Ace and their skimpy reasoning? You know what, I'll help you out: me. My reasoning was that Wriggle made the case and I don't trust him after contributing nothing all day and saving it all up to blow his load and fuck with thread sentiment right before deadline. You say if someone appears town but scummy on D2 I shouldn't withhold my vote...well that's precisely what I thought of Wriggle this entire day. Should I vote for him? What's YOUR reason for voting Ace? Not Wriggle's not Mocsta's not mine, not Vivax's, YOURS. Don't tell me why it's dumb other people aren't voting for him, and especially don't give shitty reasons as to why it's dumb. For fuck sakes you YOURSELF had a scumread on Wiggle and you turn it around without a second thought? | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:38 Wade Fell wrote: there's like nobody with double digit votes on them. we must consolidate or die. I nominate VE and TS as the two potential conslidation targets. There's no one voting for TranceStorm right now, that's a silly idea. | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:39 TestSubject893 wrote: There's no one voting for TranceStorm right now, that's a silly idea. TS893 | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
I value your opinion sir. + Show Spoiler + I think I may be forced to vote Ace if it comes down to it, my gut's telling me VE was telling the truth about his retarded 3rd party bullshit. I have to kinda sympathize 'cause I know I could fuck something like that up similarly. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
That's silly too. There's only 2 votes on not only did you express interest in moving your vote, but Mocsta just implied he'd be moving his. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On March 21 2013 12:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I want Ace to die. As I'm about to show, he is scum, and his head should roll. Firstly, I will give an overview of Ace's play this game. So far, he has been: Promising reads on mafia, but not delivering any. Pushing a lynch on someone based on the assumption that they are third party, to the exclusion of everything else*. Talking about general role mechanics/fluff otherwise. - Inactivty != scum - How is this different to others online at the time? - Town and scum both talk about mechanics When Ace joined the game, he made this post, indicating that he was excited to join the game and start scumhunting: Yes its not a gleaming town post.. I don’t see how this automatically relegates him to the scum bench. However, since then, he has yet to share a cogent read on who he thinks is mafia. The closest we get to a solid mafia read from Ace is him calling Mocsta scum, with a small amount of justification, but in the hours that follow before he posts again, he doesn't make any sort of push for his lynch or pressure him. As well, the only other read Ace provides is to call WoS town, but more solid reasoning doesn't come until directly after WoS has claimed DT and therefore put the brakes on his lynch. Why is not Coag pulled into line by Wiggles for calling WoS town? Since then, the only thing Ace has provided are more promises of finding mafia and pushing the lynch onto VE based on an emotional push that plays on town's fears while trying to stopper discussion on other lynch targets. Agreed in fullHe makes this post asking town to stop talking about other lynch targets and to lynch VE: Yes agreed. I called him out for it. Were there not others online at the same time that did the same thing? I.e. tunnel VE.. Why is only Ace getting scrutinised?He is then questioned about why we can't scumhunt and lynch VE at the same time, and this is how he responds: So here he's saying that we should still scumhunt while we lynch VE. However, he has not done that. He has not shared any reads, and he has not provided any information that might help town find mafia to follow his own plan of shooting them tonight. There is no reason not to talk about other scum candidates during the day, even if the decision to lynch VE was unanimous, as it is still time that town can easily use to discuss cases and help formulate targets for a potential vig. Ace has not done this, but instead has continued tunneling on the VE wagon, without feeling the need to do anything else of value, despite posting throughout the day. I don’t like Ace reasoning for providing no read (that I questioned him about) but.. I don’t see how that response again condemns him to being scum. Now, I will explain why I find the way Ace is pushing the VE lynch scummy: Yes and these points apply to many in the thread at the time. I know because I was there. I was one of the only ppl critically challenging the integrity of the logs. Again.. one behaviour that applies to Ace, is not applicable to all the other ppl who made a showing?Firstly, he does not question The Mirror at all. Ace simply assumes that The Mirror is a third party recruiter and that VE has been recruited without taking any time to reflect on the situation, instead opting to sweep up town into a whirlwind of paranoia and confusion. Ace is very quick to spam the idea that VE is third party and that he has to be the lynch, as shown in these posts: + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 01:24 Ace wrote: lynch VE. now. On March 21 2013 01:38 Ace wrote: your right, it's not like a claimed Vet is a confirmed Town sure to get shot because he is running around popping Scum and didn't just say he accepted an invite from 3rd party. Stop being ridiculous. On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote: I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote: Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote: Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months. Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. Within 30 minutes, Ace has posted 5 times reinforcing that VE is third-party and has to be lynched. In later posts, he continues to overplay the threat of VE that he has established, saying that he has extra powers, that he's unkillable, and that we'd have an unlynchable anti-town player at one point. These don't provide any additional reasons for why VE is scum, instead they only help scare town into thinking VE will become some unstoppable third party if he's left alive. Now, I find this disingenuous, because Ace did not take any time to consider any other possibilities, and he took everything said in the QT at face value. He does not question if The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter, he does not question if VE actually receives powers, he does not question anything at all. Instead, he takes the opportunity of the posted logs to derail the town into a witch hunt and single-mindedly beats in the idea that VE is now third party. Ace is a very good scum player. He has a keen sense of timing and is quick to seize opportunities presented to him in the thread. He played a very lurky style without doing much of anything until he saw his chance and jumped on VE and his QT logs. Since then he has pushed only this idea, which makes it look like he is actually doing something, while he has done nothing at all, and distracts town from hunting mafia. This is very reasonable to say, and makes me indeed suspicious of Ace. I don’t see evidence to hang him that does not apply to others.This is why I believe Ace is scum, and needs to hang. Again as I said before.. hes taking worst case scenarios.. every decision ace makes is scummy and intentional to derail the town. So to give balance of a case.. he provides a supporting meta that indicates when ace replaced in a game.. he tried to be aggressive and give reads instantly. The corollary.. Ace replacing in a game that is lurking has to be scum. I think this is bullshit.. and is one cherry picked example out of a huge amount of games ace has played. As I said before.. that wiggles had the situational awareness to throw this specific supporting meta in.. is scummy as fuck to me. + Show Spoiler [meta] + Supporting Meta: + Show Spoiler + As scum, I find that Ace often likes to waste town's time talking about useless things, while doing only the minimal amount needed to look town. For example, in Sleeper Cell mafia, he got town to talk about a hypothetical situation which had no bearing on the game, wasting time on Day 1. In Wheel of Fortune mafia, he launched town into a discussion of role mechanics and possible set-up plans, distracting from scumhunting and effective play. I see the same sort of play here, with Ace pushing the town into considering third parties and possible recruiters instead of focusing on scum. Additionally, I would like to contrast his play here to his play in Mafia XLVII, which I hosted. In that game, Ace replaced into the game on Day 2, taking on the role of Vigilante. As well, to put things in perspective, at that time there were over 100 pages posted, and the town was in near complete chaos without any strong town leaders or direction. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=377 I was very interested to see Ace's town play that game, and while he was unfortunately modkilled, I think the distinction in play between this game and that one is pretty telling. In that game, Ace was aggressive and assertive, trying quickly to set the town back on track and get them focused on hunting scum. He wasn't scared to share reads and didn't waste time mincing words. To illustrate, I'll quote his first four posts: + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote: I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft. On November 28 2011 08:34 Ace wrote: Also hier and that guy's name that starts with a v were making a lot of sense from my skims. You should protect them at all costs. Everyone else is food. I roll auto-town in every game I play. On November 28 2011 08:47 Ace wrote: youngminii isn't a bad player at all. In fact he had a decent amount of posts. Let's keep that in mind. In any game of Mafia with a day start everyone that is Town aligned has no information outside of themselves barring special circumstances. Also keep in mind that lynches are used to get rid of Scum. The Mayor gets his 1 time auto-lynch. Who should he lynch? Remember, the Mayor if Town doesn't know who is Scum. He is just as much in the dark as everyone else. So why would you lynch youngminii? The only justification is if he can be proven to be Scum. But it's a day start, hence Palmar doesn't have enough information to justify lynching an active player. Typically you want to lynch someone that is inactive or known to be useless. YM doesn't fit either of these criteria. The Mayor abused his power to get rid of someone who he didn't like. Which even if he was Town-aligned shows our Mayor isn't fit enough for office to think clearly and take dissenting opinions without making a bold move. But Palmar is a decent player (far, far, far below my level but still). So he should know better than to do that. Combine his expected behavior with his ridiculous actions = Scum Mayor. supersoft is terrible so you want to get rid of him asap. Easily sheeped into doing Scummy things. Very possible he is Scum. On November 28 2011 08:51 Ace wrote: supersoft is a typical sheep. However if he's easily pandering to Palmar and handroba to convince him that just reeks of Scum selling his vote (until it hits an ally). Now, contrast that to this game. While the circumstances are very similar, the difference in play seems night and day. The Ace in this game is not the same town Ace that I enjoyed watching play in XLVII. In this game, he is not worried about catching scum or providing direction to the town. He is only worried with wasting time and doing enough to make himself look good. Now, I'll talk a little bit about VE and his logs. Firstly, there's no reason to believe that The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter. All we have to support that idea, is The Mirror's word, which for obvious reasons we cannot trust. In fact, it makes sense to me that The Mirror is a scum mason. VE already outed BH in the thread as masoning him, and had outed The Mirror rather quickly as well. Scum would know this, so by masoning VE, they can nearly assure that he will report back to the thread with what he was told. This puts the idea in the thread that there's a third party recruiter, which would cause mass confusion for town. If town thinks there's a third party, they're going to start looking for third party players that don't exist. They're going to point out people as being third party, they're going to want to kill people for being third party, and later in the game when no third parties have flipped, town will get nervous and start looking for third party under the assumption that there's quite a lot of them by now and therefore they're a present threat that needs to be dealt with. It's a very good, slick, move for mafia, because it costs them nothing (the mason is anonymous), but it causes mass confusion and misdirection in the town from the time it is revealed until the end of the game. As well, I can't really see VE doing what he did if he was actually recruited. Firstly, why out himself or his new ally to the thread, especially at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. It's much better to keep is new faction a secret, so that they can gain strength. Posting it in the thread doesn't benefit him at all. Therefore, it's much more likely that VE was not recruited. So overall, I think The Mirror is very likely to be a mafia mason trying to spread confusion | ||
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Wade Fell
United States501 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:43 TestSubject893 wrote: That's silly too. There's only 2 votes on not only did you express interest in moving your vote, but Mocsta just implied he'd be moving his. I am interested in moving my vote to VE. That being said, you have essentially claimed scum in thread several times, and if there will be vote shennanies I'd highly enjoy shennanieing onto you, kind sir | ||
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