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On March 21 2013 14:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:57 TranceStorm wrote:On March 21 2013 13:49 Mocsta wrote:On March 21 2013 13:47 TranceStorm wrote:
Look. I read through all of the cases, and with all of them there is some doubt as to how true they might be. I cannot see any reason why not to vote for Ace. Everyone else who hasn't voted for him gives some skimpy reason for not doing so. For example, Mocsta argues that Hopeless1der didn't appear to be that scummy. That doesn't matter, if someone appears to be town on D1, but really scummy on D2 that shouldn't mean that you should withhold your vote. OK, reason with me Why is my TestSubject case, less valid than Ace My case is predicated on in-game behaviour.. that captures scum mentality. Wiggles case is meta.. on a guy, who rarely plays anymore, and is more than capable of "changing it up" Ok, I'll reason with you. Your TestSubject case, while compelling has a couple of assumptions that might be flawed. For example, you articulate that TestSubject's vote on GM was based on scummy reasoning: "all martyrs are scum -> GM is scum". However, I don't think that bad reasoning equates to scummy reasoning, hell, there has been plenty of bad reasoning throughout the entire day, and both you and I have been guilty of it. I fail to see the 'scummy agenda' behind the vote. Whereas in Ace's case - there is no debate needed about scummy reasoning or what not. Forget about the meta arguments. The mere fact that Ace has done nothing else in the game, no reads, no pushes on anyone, nothing besides the easy job of targeting VE is more scummy than TestSubject's justification for voting for GM. At least you admit the reasoning from testsubject is bad. Im not accusing him of bad reasoning though. I am saying he is blatantly misrepresenting reasoning as vote justification... the key point is that he was just in a game where town martyred.. yet he conveniently leaves this out.. how is that *bad*?? As for Ace.. basically u are advocating a "low activity" lynch... are you really suggesting here that TL finest scum.. who even wrote a guide on how to play adaptive scum, will proceed to just lurk; and be caught so easily?
You're just putting words in my mouth. We could do that about anyone. Look:
You only made that "case" against me because you were intentionally trying to save your scum buddy Wiggles from a lynch. You are blatantly misrepresenting reasoning on why you did that because you don't admit this.
You're calling me a liar, and then when I tell you I wasn't lying, you call that a lie too, because obviously I was lying so saying I wasn't is a falsification.
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(1) I dont think the solid makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith
(2) Since when you do you vote for your scum reads suspect?.. YOU KNWO THIS.. IN NOMINATION MAFIA
AS SCUM.. U DROPPED YOUR SCUM READ ON PALMAR, TO FOLLOW PALMAR SCUM READ: PRPLHZ
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I was skimming and tried to get the major points I saw the point him calling martyring scummy.
@VE. My top scum targets are BH, Zare, WoS and Moc. But since going to work no one seems to want any of them and I don't have time to drop a case on any of them right now
Bottom line: We need a direction for the town moving forward more than need to hit scum today. The best way to go about that is to find out how honest and up front you've been with us. If you're non town then BH is far more likely to be town. It also gives us a very good read on this whole mirror shit.
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On March 21 2013 14:06 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:03 Mocsta wrote:On March 21 2013 13:57 TranceStorm wrote:On March 21 2013 13:49 Mocsta wrote:On March 21 2013 13:47 TranceStorm wrote:
Look. I read through all of the cases, and with all of them there is some doubt as to how true they might be. I cannot see any reason why not to vote for Ace. Everyone else who hasn't voted for him gives some skimpy reason for not doing so. For example, Mocsta argues that Hopeless1der didn't appear to be that scummy. That doesn't matter, if someone appears to be town on D1, but really scummy on D2 that shouldn't mean that you should withhold your vote. OK, reason with me Why is my TestSubject case, less valid than Ace My case is predicated on in-game behaviour.. that captures scum mentality. Wiggles case is meta.. on a guy, who rarely plays anymore, and is more than capable of "changing it up" Ok, I'll reason with you. Your TestSubject case, while compelling has a couple of assumptions that might be flawed. For example, you articulate that TestSubject's vote on GM was based on scummy reasoning: "all martyrs are scum -> GM is scum". However, I don't think that bad reasoning equates to scummy reasoning, hell, there has been plenty of bad reasoning throughout the entire day, and both you and I have been guilty of it. I fail to see the 'scummy agenda' behind the vote. Whereas in Ace's case - there is no debate needed about scummy reasoning or what not. Forget about the meta arguments. The mere fact that Ace has done nothing else in the game, no reads, no pushes on anyone, nothing besides the easy job of targeting VE is more scummy than TestSubject's justification for voting for GM. At least you admit the reasoning from testsubject is bad. Im not accusing him of bad reasoning though. I am saying he is blatantly misrepresenting reasoning as vote justification... the key point is that he was just in a game where town martyred.. yet he conveniently leaves this out.. how is that *bad*?? As for Ace.. basically u are advocating a "low activity" lynch... are you really suggesting here that TL finest scum.. who even wrote a guide on how to play adaptive scum, will proceed to just lurk; and be caught so easily? You're just putting words in my mouth. We could do that about anyone. Look: You only made that "case" against me because you were intentionally trying to save your scum buddy Wiggles from a lynch. You are blatantly misrepresenting reasoning on why you did that because you don't admit this.You're calling me a liar, and then when I tell you I wasn't lying, you call that a lie too, because obviously I was lying so saying I wasn't is a falsification.
Disagree.
Your faux-accusation is founded upon conjecture.
In my situation: I am basing off fact. i.e. post.. now of course my read is conjecture (every read a townie makes is going to be conjecture, until the flip)..
The difference is the foundation.. I honestly can't see how a townie could make that vote post that you did.
You and me bantering is not going to go anywhere, of course you are goign to say what you it wasnt scummy.
So far, I havnt seen anyone actually refute what im saying
Trancestorm had a go.. but didtn actually adddress my content in full.
DP had a go.. and didnt address my content in full either.
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On March 21 2013 14:07 Mocsta wrote:
(1) I dont think the solid makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith
(2) Since when you do you vote for your scum reads suspect?.. YOU KNWO THIS.. IN NOMINATION MAFIA
AS SCUM.. U DROPPED YOUR SCUM READ ON PALMAR, TO FOLLOW PALMAR SCUM READ: PRPLHZ
EBWOP
(1) I dont htink the case is solid as it makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith
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On March 21 2013 14:09 geript wrote:
@VE. My top scum targets are ... Moc.
Explain
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On March 21 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:07 Mocsta wrote:
(1) I dont think the solid makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith
(2) Since when you do you vote for your scum reads suspect?.. YOU KNWO THIS.. IN NOMINATION MAFIA
AS SCUM.. U DROPPED YOUR SCUM READ ON PALMAR, TO FOLLOW PALMAR SCUM READ: PRPLHZ
EBWOP (1) I dont htink the case is solid as it makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith
Explain
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On March 21 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:
So far, I havnt seen anyone actually refute what im saying
On March 21 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 12:42 Mocsta wrote:
To give you context, i *JSUT* finished Day1 15min ago .. so am basically up to date with the thread, cos i been keeping up since i replaced in night 1.
TestSubject did nothing notable Day1, other than banter with BH.. which frankly to me is not alignment indicative (as much as ppl are giving credit to newbies for doing it).
His vote on GM, comes at a time where he is starting to look suspcious due to the martrying.. whats interesting is that
the 2 last ppl that voted after the martrying = Wos & TestSubject, but how they went about the voting is completely different.
TestSubject is very cold and distanced. & the vote was an easy +1.. its just very scummy to me You want to know why I was trying to stay concise? So I wouldn't waste everyone's time having to read another 3 pages of spam from BH. Every time I've posted this game he just takes a shit in the thread. Its getting in the town's way, and I don't know why no one else wants to kill him for the obviously anti-town behavior. Show nested quote +The big problem was this though: On March 18 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote:
Alright, so I finally got caught up. Here's what I've got to say.
GreYMisT seems to be doing the martyr thing we saw vivax and prome do in LX. Its a scummy play and I think its our greatest evidence against anyone right now, so I'll be voting for him.
##Vote: GreYMisT
I'm not sure why DP was getting so much heat earlier, I was happy with his explanation and liked his case against VE. VE made himself look pretty bad and has moved himself to a solid scumread in my book with his comments about town not being able to vote to influence behavior. I refuse to believe he has such a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he believes that to be true.
I've been putting some thought into BH too and he's definitely someone I'm leaning more and more scum on. He seems to be of the mentality that he's made up his mind on who is scum (apparently me included, for daring to disagree with the mighty BH) and he'll come up with reasons for it later. It made sense last game when he was a cop, but even if he is one this game he can't have checked yet. It adds up to scummy play in my eyes.
Geript and zare have not done themselves any favors either. They still look bad and worse. His sole justification is.. here are examples of ppl who martyred when scum... because greymist martyred The syllogism is... all maryrs are scum => greymist is scum THATS BULLSHIT!!... and scummy reasoning. Its clear town marytr too..look at Geript.. fuck.. even testsubject was in that game. Conveniently he ignores this. He has misconstrued information to support his "distanced" vote. Thats scum guys.. THAT IS SCUM. In fact.. i cant walk away from this. I'm not saying that its scummy because scum have done it or because town haven't. Its just scummy, I happen to mention some scum who I've seen do it lately. We can't just let people martyr. Otherwise scum would do it every time and just get away from lynches. I'm not sure what's wrong with that reasoning. This case doesn't seem to have enough solid reasoning for you to want to kill me. Please give me the rest of your reasoning so I can help you sort through that as well.
The entity of your case comes down to a single point that I address in bold here. I've yet to see you tell me why that reasoning is something a "townie could never do". You're being intentionally uncooperative with me and putting words in my mouth the entire time. How is this case enough to kill me over the many other good targets we have? Why don't you want to kill BH for his blatant lack of reasoning for voting me D1? Surely its far worse that what I've done.
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On March 21 2013 14:14 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:On March 21 2013 14:07 Mocsta wrote:
(1) I dont think the solid makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith
(2) Since when you do you vote for your scum reads suspect?.. YOU KNWO THIS.. IN NOMINATION MAFIA
AS SCUM.. U DROPPED YOUR SCUM READ ON PALMAR, TO FOLLOW PALMAR SCUM READ: PRPLHZ
EBWOP (1) I dont htink the case is solid as it makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith Explain
The case provides explanation for Ace behaviour.
In doing so, it takes worst-case scenarios.
Why cant Ace be like me.. a guy who got bored reading the thread and decided to comment on the live situation?
Frankly. i wasnt a fan of Ace play last night.. but i think its pretty extreme to insta-declare that as scummy.
Yes, i wanted him to follow through on his "pro-town" comments.. but frankly.. does he actually know many of the players in this game? perhaps he is sussing out the situation still? i dunno.. i jsut think wiggles is taking worst-case option for each point.
A townie case should consider both sides of the fence, and come to a well-reasonsed stance. I felt the case reads beautifully, but lacks consideration of a town-Ace...
In factnow that i think about it.. wiggles is aware of this, because the "town motivation" is based on the meta component he incorporated which as i said before is one game in the many many games Ace has played. Of course its easy to find one game that supports the claim.
=============
In fact.. the addition of the meta case, to strengthen the argument is pretty scummy. I could swing to a wiggles vote based on that action.
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1. I didn't like your handling of the WoS stuff last night as we covered. I'm still leaning scum on WoS and it felt very artificial
2. This play seems very much like the nmm37 and hydra game where your aggro without a point
3. The shifting back in how far you read (22, 15, 17, etc) seems odd in the least
4. I need to review your targets again but a GM quote struck a chord re:easy targets
5. The case on test seems like some psych bs that I pulled and iirc you tend to make bs cases as scum iirc
6. You seem to be trying to propagate the negative town atmosphere.
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geript: Ace is scum. The third party thing is irrelevant. Completely. The only reason I made a big deal about it was because I felt like I was being ignored. But the fact is that if I EVER had any intention of joining a third party faction, or had any inclination that I ALREADY HAD been inducted into a third party faction, I certainly wouldn't post a log that INCLUDES me accepting his offer. There's no reason for me to do that as any alignment but town.
Now, factor everything in. I was shot at last night. Ace has trouble finding scum reads. A wild anonymous mason appears. VE shits up the thread. Ace suddenly wants to lynch VE? The third party thing MEANS NOTHING. Why would Ace prioritize lynching a possible 3rd party over finding scum?
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On March 21 2013 14:19 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:14 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 21 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:On March 21 2013 14:07 Mocsta wrote:
(1) I dont think the solid makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith
(2) Since when you do you vote for your scum reads suspect?.. YOU KNWO THIS.. IN NOMINATION MAFIA
AS SCUM.. U DROPPED YOUR SCUM READ ON PALMAR, TO FOLLOW PALMAR SCUM READ: PRPLHZ
EBWOP (1) I dont htink the case is solid as it makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith Explain The case provides explanation for Ace behaviour. In doing so, it takes worst-case scenarios. Why cant Ace be like me.. a guy who got bored reading the thread and decided to comment on the live situation? Frankly. i wasnt a fan of Ace play last night.. but i think its pretty extreme to insta-declare that as scummy. Yes, i wanted him to follow through on his "pro-town" comments.. but frankly.. does he actually know many of the players in this game? perhaps he is sussing out the situation still? i dunno.. i jsut think wiggles is taking worst-case option for each point. A townie case should consider both sides of the fence, and come to a well-reasonsed stance. I felt the case reads beautifully, but lacks consideration of a town-Ace... In factnow that i think about it.. wiggles is aware of this, because the "town motivation" is based on the meta component he incorporated which as i said before is one game in the many many games Ace has played. Of course its easy to find one game that supports the claim. ============= In fact.. the addition of the meta case, to strengthen the argument is pretty scummy. I could swing to a wiggles vote based on that action.
Lol Mocsta, I don't like Wriggles or anything but even I thought his case was decent.
I really think you're overthinking things right now. You have a tendency to do that.
I have no clue what the significance of Geript's scumreads are right now but the guy makes a point: we have 1.5 hours left and I am going to bed soon.
I don't like the idea of voting for someone who's not going to hang so can we as a town please agree to disagree on some things and figure out wtf we're doing?
Can we get a vote count?
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On March 21 2013 14:17 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:
So far, I havnt seen anyone actually refute what im saying Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:42 Mocsta wrote:
To give you context, i *JSUT* finished Day1 15min ago .. so am basically up to date with the thread, cos i been keeping up since i replaced in night 1.
TestSubject did nothing notable Day1, other than banter with BH.. which frankly to me is not alignment indicative (as much as ppl are giving credit to newbies for doing it).
His vote on GM, comes at a time where he is starting to look suspcious due to the martrying.. whats interesting is that
the 2 last ppl that voted after the martrying = Wos & TestSubject, but how they went about the voting is completely different.
TestSubject is very cold and distanced. & the vote was an easy +1.. its just very scummy to me You want to know why I was trying to stay concise? So I wouldn't waste everyone's time having to read another 3 pages of spam from BH. Every time I've posted this game he just takes a shit in the thread. Its getting in the town's way, and I don't know why no one else wants to kill him for the obviously anti-town behavior. The big problem was this though: On March 18 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote:
Alright, so I finally got caught up. Here's what I've got to say.
GreYMisT seems to be doing the martyr thing we saw vivax and prome do in LX. Its a scummy play and I think its our greatest evidence against anyone right now, so I'll be voting for him.
##Vote: GreYMisT
I'm not sure why DP was getting so much heat earlier, I was happy with his explanation and liked his case against VE. VE made himself look pretty bad and has moved himself to a solid scumread in my book with his comments about town not being able to vote to influence behavior. I refuse to believe he has such a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he believes that to be true.
I've been putting some thought into BH too and he's definitely someone I'm leaning more and more scum on. He seems to be of the mentality that he's made up his mind on who is scum (apparently me included, for daring to disagree with the mighty BH) and he'll come up with reasons for it later. It made sense last game when he was a cop, but even if he is one this game he can't have checked yet. It adds up to scummy play in my eyes.
Geript and zare have not done themselves any favors either. They still look bad and worse. His sole justification is.. here are examples of ppl who martyred when scum... because greymist martyred The syllogism is... all maryrs are scum => greymist is scum THATS BULLSHIT!!... and scummy reasoning. Its clear town marytr too..look at Geript.. fuck.. even testsubject was in that game. Conveniently he ignores this. He has misconstrued information to support his "distanced" vote. Thats scum guys.. THAT IS SCUM. In fact.. i cant walk away from this. This case doesn't seem to have enough solid reasoning for you to want to kill me. Please give me the rest of your reasoning so I can help you sort through that as well. The entity of your case comes down to a single point that I address in bold here. I've yet to see you tell me why that reasoning is something a "townie could never do". You're being intentionally uncooperative with me and putting words in my mouth the entire time. How is this case enough to kill me over the many other good targets we have? Why don't you want to kill BH for his blatant lack of reasoning for voting me D1? Surely its far worse that what I've done.
I actually like this last response from you. It has the right amount of confidence/aggression in it.
Im going to take a step back this cycle &
When this lynch is over, im going to read your whole filter in detail and decide whether i want to still pursue this martyr vote.
As I said to DP prior: because Im not gettign support on this lynch, i will consolidate on either. gk or wiggles.
And yes, I find it odd BH said he liked my case on u.. but i had to prod him to add his vote.... not sure what to make of it.
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Like fine, whatever, you guys can't trust me anymore, blah blah, but at least try and lynch SCUM if it's right in front of your face.
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Mocsta give me an example of Wiggles "usng worst case scenarios" as the basis of his argument please. You cited this as your reason for opposing the case.
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You know VE, I really don't have an answer for that.
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On March 21 2013 14:20 geript wrote:
1. I didn't like your handling of the WoS stuff last night as we covered. I'm still leaning scum on WoS and it felt very artificial
2. This play seems very much like the nmm37 and hydra game where your aggro without a point
3. The shifting back in how far you read (22, 15, 17, etc) seems odd in the least
4. I need to review your targets again but a GM quote struck a chord re:easy targets
5. The case on test seems like some psych bs that I pulled and iirc you tend to make bs cases as scum iirc
6. You seem to be trying to propagate the negative town atmosphere.
1. Association read - watvs
2. Im pretty shocked to hear that. I think theres a complete contrast so.. watevz
3. Fair enough.. I have given explanation if you dont like it.. watevz
4. Im not sure what that infers - indulge me
5. I disagree. The case is base on behaviour I think exhibits mafia mentality.. if you think that is bullshit, u were welcome to explain to me why it could be townie in nature.. U DIDNT.. instead u call me out... so watevz
6. I dont know what you're talking about... yeah im spamming, but im getting ppl talking.. fact is.. this town has had zero leadership all game; yet somehow your pinpointing this on a replacement... watevs
Out of 6 points, i would like to hear more about 4. pl0x
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On March 21 2013 14:25 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:17 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 21 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:
So far, I havnt seen anyone actually refute what im saying On March 21 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:42 Mocsta wrote:
To give you context, i *JSUT* finished Day1 15min ago .. so am basically up to date with the thread, cos i been keeping up since i replaced in night 1.
TestSubject did nothing notable Day1, other than banter with BH.. which frankly to me is not alignment indicative (as much as ppl are giving credit to newbies for doing it).
His vote on GM, comes at a time where he is starting to look suspcious due to the martrying.. whats interesting is that
the 2 last ppl that voted after the martrying = Wos & TestSubject, but how they went about the voting is completely different.
TestSubject is very cold and distanced. & the vote was an easy +1.. its just very scummy to me You want to know why I was trying to stay concise? So I wouldn't waste everyone's time having to read another 3 pages of spam from BH. Every time I've posted this game he just takes a shit in the thread. Its getting in the town's way, and I don't know why no one else wants to kill him for the obviously anti-town behavior. The big problem was this though: On March 18 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote:
Alright, so I finally got caught up. Here's what I've got to say.
GreYMisT seems to be doing the martyr thing we saw vivax and prome do in LX. Its a scummy play and I think its our greatest evidence against anyone right now, so I'll be voting for him.
##Vote: GreYMisT
I'm not sure why DP was getting so much heat earlier, I was happy with his explanation and liked his case against VE. VE made himself look pretty bad and has moved himself to a solid scumread in my book with his comments about town not being able to vote to influence behavior. I refuse to believe he has such a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he believes that to be true.
I've been putting some thought into BH too and he's definitely someone I'm leaning more and more scum on. He seems to be of the mentality that he's made up his mind on who is scum (apparently me included, for daring to disagree with the mighty BH) and he'll come up with reasons for it later. It made sense last game when he was a cop, but even if he is one this game he can't have checked yet. It adds up to scummy play in my eyes.
Geript and zare have not done themselves any favors either. They still look bad and worse. His sole justification is.. here are examples of ppl who martyred when scum... because greymist martyred The syllogism is... all maryrs are scum => greymist is scum THATS BULLSHIT!!... and scummy reasoning. Its clear town marytr too..look at Geript.. fuck.. even testsubject was in that game. Conveniently he ignores this. He has misconstrued information to support his "distanced" vote. Thats scum guys.. THAT IS SCUM. In fact.. i cant walk away from this. This case doesn't seem to have enough solid reasoning for you to want to kill me. Please give me the rest of your reasoning so I can help you sort through that as well. The entity of your case comes down to a single point that I address in bold here. I've yet to see you tell me why that reasoning is something a "townie could never do". You're being intentionally uncooperative with me and putting words in my mouth the entire time. How is this case enough to kill me over the many other good targets we have? Why don't you want to kill BH for his blatant lack of reasoning for voting me D1? Surely its far worse that what I've done. I actually like this last response from you. It has the right amount of confidence/aggression in it. Im going to take a step back this cycle & When this lynch is over, im going to read your whole filter in detail and decide whether i want to still pursue this martyr vote. As I said to DP prior: because Im not gettign support on this lynch, i will consolidate on either. gk or wiggles. And yes, I find it odd BH said he liked my case on u.. but i had to prod him to add his vote.... not sure what to make of it.
I was talking about his day 1 vote that was literally unexplained. I've been over this already, have you even been reading the thread? You probably skipped it because of the shitfest he threw over it. Its in my filter you'll see it.
Also, the fact that calling you unreasonable got you to back off is super scummy. If you're town how about you start listening to reasoning instead of plugging your ears and whistling when someone you accuse posts. Its a lot easier for us to solve the game that way.
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unofficial vote count i am pretty sure is correct
VE (6): geript, TS893, Ace, CC, layabout, Ryu
Ace (5): TranceStorm, GK, VE, DYH, Wiggles
Wiggles (3): Coag, zarepath, kitaman
GK (3): Vivax, DP, WoS
TS893 (2): WF, Mocsta
WoS (2): scib, TPS
Mocsta (1): glurio
vivax (1): kenpachi
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EPT
