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At this point I'm most worried about Krafla. A first day of few, useless posts, except an out-of-nowhere, poorly justified, and essentially bandwagoning vote of NW, followed by that whole story about being a one-shot cop. I'm also worried about this:
I thought it better to lynch someone who would give us some information by letting us read into their posts. As I mentioned I had doubts on nobodywonder and MeatlessTaco but I felt that Meatless had promoted more interesting conversation than nobodywonder, so that's where I placed my vote.
WTF does that mean? The point of this game is to lynch the mafia, not to lynch the most interesting people. Yes, his story does somewhat make sense (I was lurking because I was a blue), but at the same time, why did he continue to lurk so much if he was only a one-shotter, planning to use his power at his first opportunity, and was never under real threat? It does seem like a waste of a risky fakeclaim to simply say "I was roleblocked", but that could just be Krafla playing it safe, or playing badly.
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On March 10 2013 11:26 bduddy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 11:13 OmniEulogy wrote:On March 10 2013 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote:Ugh need a spell/grammar checker or something. + Show Spoiler +
EBWOP: Just because you were forced to switch to my better and stronger case could have just meant you were switching to avoid looking scummier, which you state yourself. Nowhere do you actually bring up evidence as to Daishi's scumminess, you essentially just sheep on board while making it look as though we're dragging you hands and feet. You have a LOT of soft defense of Daishi in your filter (which bduddy point out quite well earlier on as evidence against Daishi) and whereas you call him scummy, you just lump him in with the lurkers who are null at best and you don't seem altogether convinced.
Is this what you are talking about? On March 09 2013 06:19 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 09 2013 06:15 Arctic Daishi wrote:On March 09 2013 06:10 Frorgon wrote:
@Arctic What about Omni's case is so "great"? The claim that I have contributed the least? Because I'm pretty sure you've contributed less than me. Seems pretty easy for you to just sit back and buddy up with people without at least explaining why you like their case so much. In this post: On March 08 2013 06:29 Frorgon wrote:
@OmniEulogy I'm wondering why you asked me about what I thought was suspicious behavior. I clearly explained that in my initial post about the matter. It made me a bit uneasy about whether or not you were trying to get redundant information posted to cloud up the thread. As Wave said, the amount of posts you had started to raise a red flag for me. And don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily the amount of posts you had that was bad, it was that you seemed to be drowning the thread for a while with just your thoughts and limited discussion from others. That being said, I feel better about your contributions in the past few pages since other people have shown up. You seemed rather hostile against Omni, who was very active in investigating people. Perhaps to stop his investigation? Terrible. This was early on in the thread before Frorgon was even under investigation. You've just overtaken everyone as the scummiest person in this thread. No opinions, sheep vote, attempting to prove yourself useful only when under pressure. Fuck this, after re-reading Omni's 'amazing' case I see some holes in it that I'm going to expose eventually. First I'm going to see if Frorgon can dig himself out of this little hole before I do it. ##Unvote
##Vote: Arctic Daishi does everybody develop short-term memory loss when describing how they first voted for people? First Taco and now you. Can you tell me how what Arctic did was different from Chew? You just jumped on the right one between the two of them (possible that they are both scum). Your two line case on a scummy lurker was great. Took a lot of effort I'm sure. Almost as much as my case on Frorgon. It didn't take long or complex analysis to realize that Arctic was scum. The main difference was that CoS posted nothing, AD posted scummy posts. CoS definitely needs to remain under suspicion, but it's possible at this point that he's just away from the Internet for some reason.
considering he's no longer in the game and has been replaced we lost a pretty good chance to find out. But my point still stands that if Arctic hadn't played as if he was brain dead we most likely wouldn't have ended up lynching him due to the fact that he looked exactly like Chew, and every lurker seems scummy.
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On March 10 2013 11:36 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 11:26 bduddy wrote:On March 10 2013 11:13 OmniEulogy wrote:On March 10 2013 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote:Ugh need a spell/grammar checker or something. + Show Spoiler +
EBWOP: Just because you were forced to switch to my better and stronger case could have just meant you were switching to avoid looking scummier, which you state yourself. Nowhere do you actually bring up evidence as to Daishi's scumminess, you essentially just sheep on board while making it look as though we're dragging you hands and feet. You have a LOT of soft defense of Daishi in your filter (which bduddy point out quite well earlier on as evidence against Daishi) and whereas you call him scummy, you just lump him in with the lurkers who are null at best and you don't seem altogether convinced.
Is this what you are talking about? On March 09 2013 06:19 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 09 2013 06:15 Arctic Daishi wrote:On March 09 2013 06:10 Frorgon wrote:
@Arctic What about Omni's case is so "great"? The claim that I have contributed the least? Because I'm pretty sure you've contributed less than me. Seems pretty easy for you to just sit back and buddy up with people without at least explaining why you like their case so much. In this post: On March 08 2013 06:29 Frorgon wrote:
@OmniEulogy I'm wondering why you asked me about what I thought was suspicious behavior. I clearly explained that in my initial post about the matter. It made me a bit uneasy about whether or not you were trying to get redundant information posted to cloud up the thread. As Wave said, the amount of posts you had started to raise a red flag for me. And don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily the amount of posts you had that was bad, it was that you seemed to be drowning the thread for a while with just your thoughts and limited discussion from others. That being said, I feel better about your contributions in the past few pages since other people have shown up. You seemed rather hostile against Omni, who was very active in investigating people. Perhaps to stop his investigation? Terrible. This was early on in the thread before Frorgon was even under investigation. You've just overtaken everyone as the scummiest person in this thread. No opinions, sheep vote, attempting to prove yourself useful only when under pressure. Fuck this, after re-reading Omni's 'amazing' case I see some holes in it that I'm going to expose eventually. First I'm going to see if Frorgon can dig himself out of this little hole before I do it. ##Unvote
##Vote: Arctic Daishi does everybody develop short-term memory loss when describing how they first voted for people? First Taco and now you. Can you tell me how what Arctic did was different from Chew? You just jumped on the right one between the two of them (possible that they are both scum). Your two line case on a scummy lurker was great. Took a lot of effort I'm sure. Almost as much as my case on Frorgon. It didn't take long or complex analysis to realize that Arctic was scum. The main difference was that CoS posted nothing, AD posted scummy posts. CoS definitely needs to remain under suspicion, but it's possible at this point that he's just away from the Internet for some reason. considering he's no longer in the game and has been replaced we lost a pretty good chance to find out. But my point still stands that if Arctic hadn't played as if he was brain dead we most likely wouldn't have ended up lynching him due to the fact that he looked exactly like Chew, and every lurker seems scummy. I somehow totally forgot that CoS got replaced... yeah.
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On March 10 2013 11:33 bduddy wrote:At this point I'm most worried about Krafla. A first day of few, useless posts, except an out-of-nowhere, poorly justified, and essentially bandwagoning vote of NW, followed by that whole story about being a one-shot cop. I'm also worried about this: Show nested quote + I thought it better to lynch someone who would give us some information by letting us read into their posts. As I mentioned I had doubts on nobodywonder and MeatlessTaco but I felt that Meatless had promoted more interesting conversation than nobodywonder, so that's where I placed my vote. WTF does that mean? The point of this game is to lynch the mafia, not to lynch the most interesting people. Yes, his story does somewhat make sense (I was lurking because I was a blue), but at the same time, why did he continue to lurk so much if he was only a one-shotter, planning to use his power at his first opportunity, and was never under real threat? It does seem like a waste of a risky fakeclaim to simply say "I was roleblocked", but that could just be Krafla playing it safe, or playing badly.
This is one of the biggest problems I think in these newbie games; it becomes particularly difficult to distinguish between bad town/mafia/inexperienced player.
I'm leaning town on Krafla since I have no choice but to believe the most obvious conclusion to the lack of NK. And for the record (since I'm sure OE is typing furiously right now to attempt to refute my recent post) I'm not voting OE either, at the very least not until I see an expanded case from Geript. If anything a lot of Geript's work has been done for him since OE has been under scrutiny for much of the game; I'd like to see him bring up something new, à la TRN's case on Daishi.
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On March 10 2013 11:36 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 11:26 bduddy wrote:On March 10 2013 11:13 OmniEulogy wrote:On March 10 2013 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote:Ugh need a spell/grammar checker or something. + Show Spoiler +
EBWOP: Just because you were forced to switch to my better and stronger case could have just meant you were switching to avoid looking scummier, which you state yourself. Nowhere do you actually bring up evidence as to Daishi's scumminess, you essentially just sheep on board while making it look as though we're dragging you hands and feet. You have a LOT of soft defense of Daishi in your filter (which bduddy point out quite well earlier on as evidence against Daishi) and whereas you call him scummy, you just lump him in with the lurkers who are null at best and you don't seem altogether convinced.
Is this what you are talking about? On March 09 2013 06:19 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 09 2013 06:15 Arctic Daishi wrote:On March 09 2013 06:10 Frorgon wrote:
@Arctic What about Omni's case is so "great"? The claim that I have contributed the least? Because I'm pretty sure you've contributed less than me. Seems pretty easy for you to just sit back and buddy up with people without at least explaining why you like their case so much. In this post: On March 08 2013 06:29 Frorgon wrote:
@OmniEulogy I'm wondering why you asked me about what I thought was suspicious behavior. I clearly explained that in my initial post about the matter. It made me a bit uneasy about whether or not you were trying to get redundant information posted to cloud up the thread. As Wave said, the amount of posts you had started to raise a red flag for me. And don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily the amount of posts you had that was bad, it was that you seemed to be drowning the thread for a while with just your thoughts and limited discussion from others. That being said, I feel better about your contributions in the past few pages since other people have shown up. You seemed rather hostile against Omni, who was very active in investigating people. Perhaps to stop his investigation? Terrible. This was early on in the thread before Frorgon was even under investigation. You've just overtaken everyone as the scummiest person in this thread. No opinions, sheep vote, attempting to prove yourself useful only when under pressure. Fuck this, after re-reading Omni's 'amazing' case I see some holes in it that I'm going to expose eventually. First I'm going to see if Frorgon can dig himself out of this little hole before I do it. ##Unvote
##Vote: Arctic Daishi does everybody develop short-term memory loss when describing how they first voted for people? First Taco and now you. Can you tell me how what Arctic did was different from Chew? You just jumped on the right one between the two of them (possible that they are both scum). Your two line case on a scummy lurker was great. Took a lot of effort I'm sure. Almost as much as my case on Frorgon. It didn't take long or complex analysis to realize that Arctic was scum. The main difference was that CoS posted nothing, AD posted scummy posts. CoS definitely needs to remain under suspicion, but it's possible at this point that he's just away from the Internet for some reason. considering he's no longer in the game and has been replaced we lost a pretty good chance to find out. But my point still stands that if Arctic hadn't played as if he was brain dead we most likely wouldn't have ended up lynching him due to the fact that he looked exactly like Chew, and every lurker seems scummy.
No, your point doesn't stand OE. Because the only reason I pushed him was specifically because of the way he acted when he came back. That makes him vastly different from a lurker and ironically, he probably would have survived had he not come back at all.
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OK wait, I guess that's sort of the same thing? OE, what is your point trying to prove exactly? I've confused myself apparently.
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On March 10 2013 11:32 WaveofShadow wrote:The thing is, OE, my case against Daishi was strong because it fit basic scum parameters to him exactly. If he hadn't come back I'll admit I wouldn't have had much, but the fact that he came back and acted how he did sealed his fate. I didn't need multiple lines to prove that. I'm not saying I'm the only one who MADE it strong after the fact, TRN really helped with that pointing out the vote patterns. It doesn't necessarily make sense to write up a huge case on someone unless there are a lot of points to bring up, and they're strong points. I'm not saying your case on Frorgon was bad, but you had dig real deep to find some of the stuff on him which is still mostly inconclusive. As to your reasons for voting Taco, I'm not saying they're not genuine here either. But the fact remains that the Daishi case was strengthened by adding increasing points about his own scumminess, not by weakening the case on Taco. You soft defending Daishi constantly throughout the game doesn't look good now, regardless of your intentions and you have to accept that. The fact that you continued to to attempt to prove your own case by continually sticking up for Daishi looks worse. Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:22 OmniEulogy wrote:
if Arctic is scum and you guys nail him, it's fantastic but I'm still wondering how he is different from the other lurkers like bduddy. If we just talk about Arctic being lynched and flipping scum, the only thing we gain is scum being down by 1 which is huge for D1 don't get me wrong but his absence means we don't learn much else from it. My question to him at that point was the best I could do, he literally had 0 posts to his name, and all the questions were more aimed towards seeing peoples reactions to me asking them, and how people felt about Luneth as opposed to Arctic (who wasn't even a subject of conversation at that point).
I guess if I look at it from a point that Arctic wouldn't vote on his own scum buddies, we might be able to clear the people he's voted on as being town? Although even that is a shot in the dark. Don't get particularly upset about me grilling you, I'm playing Devil's Advocate to get more info out of you. This is mafia.
I agree and I'm happy that you agree with me as well. It strengthens why I didn't join the Arctic band wagon when it started, it goes along with everything I had been saying during D1/N1. Arctic by himself and almost up till the very moment of the lynch deadline was just as scummy as every other lurker. It was when Arctic came back and proceeded to destroy himself that people became more convinced and we got a majority lynch on him. Which he then didn't even notice for another page... I mean cmon... the guy didn't help himself at all lol.
Basically I'm being called scum for everything that people were agreeing with during D1. It makes no sense.
I have no issue with you challenging me to any of this either.
Geript on the other hand, has still failed to voice anything, has replaced a completely scummy lurker (I'd argue 2nd scummiest lurker in the game with that vote on NW) has not said anything important about it and completely derailed us from trying to learn anything about the fact that somebody stopped the NK on you. IF he's going to make a case Where the fuck is it? He's been in this game for nearly 27 hours and other than foaming at the mouth he's explained nothing.
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summary - Arctic did more damage to himself than any of us could have with his small filter, The Mafia wanted you dead, Why? We haven't even discussed this. Your two reads I guess would be me and Luneth? I suspect Luneth, People suspect both me and Taco as well.
Why would I bus every single scum buddy I've got before its EVER been necessary? it doesn't add up. I'm town.
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Omni, who are your top scum reads and why?
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On March 10 2013 11:56 geript wrote:
Omni, who are your top scum reads and why?
holy shit die in a fire. LOL
Taco, find it yourself.
Luneth, find it yourself.
You. find it yourself.
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EBWOP: In that order. and I didn't actually mean it <3 geript lol
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Ok now I get why I was confused. You keep talking as if there was a bandwagon before Daishi came back. There wasn't. It didn't start until I voted for him AFTER he came back and proved himself scummy. Lurkers on their own are null, and you can't keep bringing up Chew's actions (or lack thereof) as indication, it's useless.
I like your second post better I suppose because it gets a different conversation started. Why do mafia want me dead? Because I dug up Daishi and got attention on him, am very vocal about scumhunting, and appear to be basically confirmed town to just about everybody as no one has brought up suspicion regarding me at all. I am an obvious threat to scum, arguably more than TRN who is confirmed town in my eyes because I have more experience than he does.
Now as far as bussing every single scumbuddy this is null because we don't know enough about Luneth or Taco to call them scum in my opinion. Not to mention I don't see my direct suspicions on anyone as being reason to target me on their own, that's bad scum play. You also laid heavy suspicion on Frorgon early, does that mean according to your defense you were trying to bus him too? This defense doesn't get you anywhere.
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On March 10 2013 11:56 geript wrote:
Omni, who are your top scum reads and why?
Yeah, this isn't enough. I'm doing all your work for you right now, and if you expect me to believe that you actually want OE lynched you'd better come up with something or I'm dropping it.
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I've been looking through Rainbows' filter to try to get a read on him.
Despite the disappearance, I'm still leaning town on him.
- Wave offers to hunt scum with him. He declines. If he was scum I feel like he would have been more willing to go along with it because he might be able to influence Wave's decision making to his liking that way.
- Changes his vote to me after claiming that a NW bandwagon gives scum an easy chance to hide.
- Any return and vote change would probably have made him look even more suspicious than he does now. If he returned and voted for Arctic it would have looked like a buss, and if he returned and voted for NW it would have looked like he was trying to defend Arctic.
The isn't entirely conclusive so I would still like to hear from Rainbows himself about his thoughts on what has happened since he left.
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WoS no confirmed townie talk please. Way too early for that.
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On March 10 2013 12:04 Frorgon wrote:
I've been looking through Rainbows' filter to try to get a read on him.
Despite the disappearance, I'm still leaning town on him.
- Wave offers to hunt scum with him. He declines. If he was scum I feel like he would have been more willing to go along with it because he might be able to influence Wave's decision making to his liking that way.
- Changes his vote to me after claiming that a NW bandwagon gives scum an easy chance to hide.
- Any return and vote change would probably have made him look even more suspicious than he does now. If he returned and voted for Arctic it would have looked like a buss, and if he returned and voted for NW it would have looked like he was trying to defend Arctic.
The isn't entirely conclusive so I would still like to hear from Rainbows himself about his thoughts on what has happened since he left.
I agree somewhat with this, though your first point is null, I made a blatant buddying attempt (which is seen as scummy generally) and he didn't want to be associated with it one way or the other. I still lean town on him based on early play though he definitely needs come back and help out; much like Daishi his posting when he gets back will be crucial as to determination of his alignment.
And if he doesn't come back or help we can always lynch him. 
On March 10 2013 12:04 geript wrote:
WoS no confirmed townie talk please. Way too early for that.
No it's not. And besides I don't really care what others think of me, I was just pointing out what their actions seem to delineate. As for TRN, I've said it before, and that's still just my opinion.
Now I feel like I'm filling up this thread so I'm done talking until someone gives me something useful to talk about.
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the thing is WoS, he proved himself scummy because he sheeped me and voted Frorgon. Chew comes back sheeps on NW. I can continue to make that relation because they both do the exact same thing. The only difference is Chew never comes back after and Arctic dug his own grave for us. Now chews replacement continues to do nothing, Luneth is still gone, and every point I made about Taco is still very much relevant and he continues to make himself look worse yet I'm scum.
see how it doesn't add up? I actually scum hunt. Other than yourself and Raven has anybody actually made a real case?
Arctic - nope
Taco - nope
Rainbow - nope
Krafla - nope
Matriarch - nope
Chew/Geript - nope
NobodyWonder - nope (albeit had to defend himself for the majority of D1)
bduddy - nope
Frorgon - nope.
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Well Omni, it's easy to say that Wave and Raven are the only ones besides yourself who have made a real case, because they made the case against confirmed scum. But I'd argue that others have made cases as well. It's kind of useless to list almost every player in the game in order to somehow claim that you are superior. Who's to say you've made a real case? Just because you've said a lot and quoted people, it doesn't automatically confirm that you've made a real case.
I agree that Geript needs to be more useful. He needs to make reads and give opinions. I don't like his just sitting back and casting one liners at people without adding anything else.
I disagree that Taco keeps making himself worse. He made a decent attempt at some reads just now. For example he could have easily spun his read on me to claim that I was scum because people are still unsure about me, but he didn't His scum read on Krafla is reasonable because I'm also suspicious that Krafla was lying.
So tell me Omni, what about Taco's behavior lately is making him look more scummy?
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On March 10 2013 12:29 Frorgon wrote:
Well Omni, it's easy to say that Wave and Raven are the only ones besides yourself who have made a real case, because they made the case against confirmed scum. But I'd argue that others have made cases as well. It's kind of useless to list almost every player in the game in order to somehow claim that you are superior. Who's to say you've made a real case? Just because you've said a lot and quoted people, it doesn't automatically confirm that you've made a real case.
I agree that Geript needs to be more useful. He needs to make reads and give opinions. I don't like his just sitting back and casting one liners at people without adding anything else.
I disagree that Taco keeps making himself worse. He made a decent attempt at some reads just now. For example he could have easily spun his read on me to claim that I was scum because people are still unsure about me, but he didn't His scum read on Krafla is reasonable because I'm also suspicious that Krafla was lying.
So tell me Omni, what about Taco's behavior lately is making him look more scummy?
Then go bring me a case on somebody original that doesn't sheep somebody else and we can cross them off. Instead of arguing over semantics you might want to actually scum hunt.
Nothing Taco has done has been pro town since my cases were made. Even his list post was something he HAD to do. Null read at best and didn't offer very much considering his current condition. After my cases his defense of himself did not have a pro-town agenda. These are facts of what has happened. not opinions. I hope you don't confuse the two.
Geript confirmed liar as well. nice case on me. I really enjoyed the part where you couldn't find enough to justify your vote so you ran away.
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I agree with Frorgon that you, Omni, haven't made a complete, real case.
That said, Taco hasn't responded to either Omni's and my questions. I still find Taco suspicious, because his actions do not seem pro-town.
My scumread is currently stronger on Taco. I think it would be made much more clear if Taco can respond to Omni, because it can shed more perspective on the true nature of Omni's actions. From there, I feel that the whole Omni vs geript issue will become more clear.
On March 10 2013 11:56 geript wrote:
Omni, who are your top scum reads and why?
that geript 180. that was sudden and unexpected. I was really looking forward to your analysis of Omni's motivations and agenda. Are you still going to explain in more detail?
On March 10 2013 09:45 geript wrote:
Here's the option I like the most:
## vote omnieulogy
You're interested in finding out Luneth's alignment and doesn't change a thing. I'll explain more in detail late tonight but here's a summary:
Soft defenses of Artic
Nothing but mudslinging
Further suspicions without trying to actually pressure
Overall no interest in pressuring players
Interest in wasting time discussing worthless matters
Presenting 2 bad cases without follow up
As for Omni, well I will re-visit your argument on Taco and check your actions.
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EPT
