EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXVIII - Page 45
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
On March 10 2013 15:36 WaveofShadow wrote: Just because Rainbows made a case on somebody doesn't mean you can't look at his case and analyze it yourself for strengths and weaknesses. That's what I've been doing all game in addition to my own. You could also make your own case if you have anything to add. There is no mutual exclusion here. given how I'm being accused of being scum, the last thing I needed to do was vote for Luneth and sheep him. Regardless of anything I could have said about Luneth I'd be accused of sheeping and people would ignore everything I said and focus on the fact that I voted for him right after Rainbow. I lost any window I had at putting my vote on Luneth with that case this early in D2 at this moment. Cause Geript is an idiot and half of town can't form their own opinions. bduddy is asking Rainbow why I'm a bad lynch choice. FORM YOUR OWN OPINION. This town as much as I feel like we've got 4 people who know what they are doing, I feel like we have 5 more that are complete brain dead sheep and it's rather aggravating. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
1. Lurker -- Nothing inherently scummy about this. While scum can tend to lurk, town tends to lurk just as hard in my experience. So negative points for Frogon but not scummy points (if that makes sense) 2. Wishy-washy -- 3. Argues that Frogon saying OE's filter was all mucked up is scummy -- Keeping a 'clean' and effective filter is exceptionally important to town. Sharing your thought process = good. Sharing your every thought = bad. This just looks to discourage interaction which is key to town. 4. Dislikes pressure without votes -- absolutely nothing wrong here especially as voting isn't the only form of pressure that can be applied. 5. Dislikes unflipped association cases -- fair, but association cases are just as commonly used (even preflip) by town and scum. Then he proceeds to throw suspicion on 4 players (including Arctic). His points against Chew/pre-Geript (sheep vote, lurking) and bduddy (lurking/not as bad as Frogon) are weak at best imo. As his points on Frogon are essentially null in my view, I see no reason for him to even be trying to lay out this case. Next he gets onto Taco for a sheep vote. While there's nothing wrong with calling people out for dumb votes, I haven't seen him try and either follow through a case OR do anything but pick on weak targets. Doesn't like Taco wanting people to take a stand (in words or vote) on other people Scum's best path to victory is quite simply that to be able to hide within wagons on poor cases. There's no meat in his taco case, it's all vegetarian much like his case on Frogon. The only valid point in his second case on taco is that he hadn't made a case up until that point; however if that's where the bar is at, then OE should be pressuring a number of other players. Why isn't he? Why does he seem to be picking on the tail end of the herd? Here's a key quote: On March 09 2013 05:50 OmniEulogy wrote: This is fair enough, but when you say contributing the least, you are on the bottom of that list. Otherwise you wouldn't have been the subject of my case. I will say that Chew looks just as bad though now that you've at least posted. So Frogon posting, even just a little bit, makes Chew an equal target to Frogon? That's just bad. The whole point of his case is because he wasn't contributing at all? That's just scummy for a single reason: Lynching lurkers is a means to remove scum's ability to hide. Making cases on lurkers/non-contributors is a waste of everyone's time. Case-building on lurkers isn't effective because there's little to nothing to point to and they give little to no information when flipped. This quote just tells me, "I made the case against you because you were an easy target that I wouldn't get blasted for. As well, it gets me off the hook for later on as I will LOOK like I'm contributing" The multiple soft defenses of Arctic have been documented. Not a whole lot more to mention about them other than the fact that there's more than just one of them. While he's 'fine' with switching to Artic, he wants to move pressure to Taco for one weak reason (which ALSO applies to Arctic). I'm not buying this, dude looks like SCUM #2 to me. Most of his filter is complete fluff as there almost no substance in what 7 pages now. The last point I'm going to make is the weakest imo but take it for what you will. In general, there's an inherent guilt in playing scum. While the natural reaction when attacked is to get defensive, instead of trying to strengthen his case on Taco, Frogon or his read on Luneth he instead goes full defensive. Got something to hide? His expansion on Taco just looks like he's grasping for straws. I'll be back in the morning or noon to look at Luneth again after I get some sleep and give you guys time to read and digest. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
OmniEulogy (1): Geript MLuneth (3): WaveofShadow, Rainbows, Frorgon MeatlessTaco (1): OmniEulogy No vote: Krafla, MLuneth, nobodywonder, bduddy, Geript, TheRavensName, Frorgon, MeatlessTaco, OmniEulogy, Rainbows, WaveofShadow, Matriarch MLuneth is currently set to be lynched. ~38 hours until the deadline. Voting is mandatory. Please remember to bold your votes, and to unvote if you've previously voted for someone else. | ||
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Frorgon
United States146 Posts
As far as Krafla, I agree that it could be a total lie, but you need to actually read the discussion about this. Basically, if WoS was jailed, it makes it entirely possible that Mafia randomly chose who to roleblock and chose correctly. This has already been explained. And it's fairly plausible because Krafla wasn't very active on D1 but blues don't necessarily want to look too threatening off the bat. I'd also like you to try to explain why we should be voting for OE rather than to try and get Rainbows to do all the work and tell you why you shouldn't. Or are you trying to keep quiet? @Matriarch where are you? | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On March 11 2013 04:29 Frorgon wrote: Right now we have 2 concrete pieces of information: AD was scum, and no one got killed last night. I like going on concrete information (probably because I'm not good at reading people in general, Mafia or not @bduddy Just to clarify a few things, while Rainbows made a decent case, his case isn't necessarily the reason for a MLuneth "bandwagon". MLuneth was already looking incredibly scummy before Rainbows gave his opinion, and if you review the N1 posts you see that WoS and myself were already pointing at Luneth as the scummiest looking person. As far as Krafla, I agree that it could be a total lie, but you need to actually read the discussion about this. Basically, if WoS was jailed, it makes it entirely possible that Mafia randomly chose who to roleblock and chose correctly. This has already been explained. And it's fairly plausible because Krafla wasn't very active on D1 but blues don't necessarily want to look too threatening off the bat. I'd also like you to try to explain why we should be voting for OE rather than to try and get Rainbows to do all the work and tell you why you shouldn't. Or are you trying to keep quiet? @Matriarch where are you?  ) and so my natural target is the person that spent the most time defending AD - that's OE, pretty clearly. It's possible that the remaining mafia members saw his absence and decided to bus him early, but somehow I don't see that happening in a game like this - I'm not sure, though, that's why I haven't voted yet. Speaking of the other piece of information we have - would it be at all worth it for our town roleblocker to claim now with who they blocked? I guess he's not a one-shot or he presumably would have done so already, but getting rid of another mafia in exchange for that seems like a good trade to me. Of course there are risks - fakeclaims, maybe we have more than one roleblocker, maybe the mafia is pulling some ridiculous gambit - I'm not saying anyone should do it now, I just want to start a discussion. | ||
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
One of the biggest things I can't get over is the fact that OE said that even if Arctic is mafia he wasn't worth lynching cause there was nothing to learn about him. Its just, quite a frustrating thought everytime I scan over it and I can't wrap my head around the idea of someone rather risking a mislynch then getting a lurking scum. If nothing else, you got one less myslynch you gotta do. But he also did do a decent job of helping out some of us newbies, mainly me, on day one... and if he was scum he could have easily taken that opportunity to use this and rainbows/meatless already suspicions to kill me off day one. Hell he could have let me and WoS continue on our path of thought about meatless defending Arctic and he would have had two more people willing to bet Meatless was scum. So if hes scum, he really has been missing a lot of opportunities, and sacing a kill or two for credability seems quite risky, especially if he knows were going to get one of his budies anyways in arctic. Meatless also defended Arctic, and dear god the more he defends himself the more I dislike him. Maybe the link between him and Arctic is reaching, but I am not a fan of the idea that he is willing to hypocrit himself (borderline lie), after saying lieing is bad, and lurk pretty hard after he got a band wagon started. I dislike how he accuses Krafia as red for soft defending AD, like he did, especially when it was after Meatless said not to vote arctic who hadn't posted yet. And Scum would not vote for another if they really were trying to random lynch, least not randomly. I gotta be honest, I'm not finding much in MT's filter to suggest much town or a good explination for all this, though his lurking also makes him a little light on evidence... but all in all I like Taco a little less then OE. All of his recent cases seem to be grasping at straws on other lurkers in an attempt not to seem scummy, he didn;'t even make a single case on any active person. ##Vote: MeatlessTaco | ||
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
He's quite active, and i think if hes scum we can catch him later with all of he information we have. | ||
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Frorgon
United States146 Posts
On March 11 2013 05:50 bduddy wrote: Speaking of the other piece of information we have - would it be at all worth it for our town roleblocker to claim now with who they blocked? I guess he's not a one-shot or he presumably would have done so already, but getting rid of another mafia in exchange for that seems like a good trade to me. Of course there are risks - fakeclaims, maybe we have more than one roleblocker, maybe the mafia is pulling some ridiculous gambit - I'm not saying anyone should do it now, I just want to start a discussion. Whoa whoa whoa... I don't see any reason for anyone else to blue claim right now unless they want to make themselves a target for the Mafia. Especially considering that the roleblock was not likely placed on the mafia. Or if the roleblocker was able to RB the mafia with kill power, the mafia roleblocker would use that information to roleblock him and ensure that the kill goes through next time. That is a terrible idea. | ||
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On March 11 2013 06:04 Frorgon wrote: Especially considering that the roleblock was not likely placed on the mafia. How do you get that? The mafia almost certainly chose to kill someone last night - the only reason they didn't is that they were roleblocked. This game doesn't have a doctor. Or if the roleblocker was able to RB the mafia with kill power, the mafia roleblocker would use that information to roleblock him and ensure that the kill goes through next time. All mafia have kill power in this game (read the PMs). Unless there's only one mafia left, which is highly unlikely, it's not going to be the same guy killing next time. Yes, I know that someone who claimed town RB right now would obviously become a mafia target, but if we get a mafia out of that I think that's a good trade for us. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
The fact that 2/3 of the thread has not shown up to vote is disconcerting. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On March 11 2013 06:19 bduddy wrote: How do you get that? The mafia almost certainly chose to kill someone last night - the only reason they didn't is that they were roleblocked. This game doesn't have a doctor. All mafia have kill power in this game (read the PMs). Unless there's only one mafia left, which is highly unlikely, it's not going to be the same guy killing next time. Yes, I know that someone who claimed town RB right now would obviously become a mafia target, but if we get a mafia out of that I think that's a good trade for us. Wrong, bduddy. Chances are very slim that we have both a RB and a JK; that would most likely be imbalanced. The JK protected me (I was roleblocked) which is why there was no kill last night. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
WoS... what don't you like about the OE case? You seem to have ignored it entirely. | ||
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On March 11 2013 06:20 WaveofShadow wrote: ...yeah, that does make sense as well, I had forgotten about your post. Sorry for acting like such an idiot, I'm just not used to playing with roles like this (or serious Mafia games at all, really). Considering that all of my other cases have been shit, I'm starting to come around to the arguments about MeatlessTaco. In fact, until he comes up with some good answers, Wrong, bduddy. Chances are very slim that we have both a RB and a JK; that would most likely be imbalanced. The JK protected me (I was roleblocked) which is why there was no kill last night. ##Vote: MeatlessTaco | ||
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