TL Mafia LX

On February 26 2013 09:34 ObviousOne wrote:
Top scum read probably geript at the very moment. His candidacy for mayor seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Guaranteed mislynch from him as either alignment.

On February 26 2013 09:30 Promethelax wrote:


Yes? But the idea of a random lynch is good. You should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck, which I'm assuming.

He focuses on the likelihood of a night kill on gerpit, he is too interested in night actions and not in the candidacy or the actual ideas which gerpit proposes. I'm not a fan of this post or WoS's mentality.

On February 26 2013 10:21 Promethelax wrote:


Because I wanted it to gain some real traction. I had an idea about actually getting close and withdrawing my nomination since if scum was up for lynch they'd be pushing me as mayor where if there was a townie up for lynch they'd be pushing against me. It's a plan that only works if I get support on it. That was the discussion I wanted to spark.

On February 26 2013 11:27 WaveofShadow wrote:

A thought popped into my head regarding this...it may be absolutely retarded but you guys will let me know that after the fact, won't you?

Since the pardoner is inherently more dangerous as a scumrole and the plan to 'kill two birds with one stone' in all likelihood won't (or can't at this point) gain the traction necessary to be carried out, why not give up the role to someone who is likely to be targeted early anyway, or someone who if you are overly suspicious of, you can lynch yourselves anyway?
Case and point: a newbie.

I graciously offer up myself to be the (possible) sacrificial lamb to do with as you will. If you so choose to lynch me for fear that I am scum, then I go down happily, hopefully bringing as much information to the table as possible before I crash and burn in an epic fireball. If you choose to keep me around, then I will serve the town gladly and I will offer up my pardon to save a deserving person. Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach.


WHAT SAY YOU GENTLEMEN

On February 26 2013 11:33 VisceraEyes wrote:


I have no intention of fighting with you and if you want to scumhunt with me I'm perfectly willing to do so regardless of your alignment. If anything it should help me get a better read on you no? So why suggest that we scumhunt separately?

On February 26 2013 12:18 MilkSuckler wrote:
DoctorHelvetica.. are you against me voting you for mayor?

On February 26 2013 12:26 randombum wrote:
Just caught up, some thoughts. The idea of setting up votes so the the pardoner is the lynch target seems ridiculous.

Here's a crazy idea. What if we try to get scum elected on purpose. The idea is the mayor will probably not last every long in this set-up anyways.

My plan is basically we get a scummy person in the thread elected as mayor and get him to lynch the scummiest. Depending on what he does and how the flip goes we can gain a lot of good information. If the mayor is unwilling to lynch the scummiest then we can vig the mayor. If he turns red then we have caught two scum. If he does lynch him and he turns red then good, the scummiest looking player was scum. If the mayor lynches the scummiest and he turns green, then we have to seriously look at the mayor. If the mayor also turns out green, then the town really sucked.

Basically we use this vote to choose our lynch target and put a scummy player in the spotlight by making him mayor. While normally having a scum mayor would really suck, the fact that there are no bodyguards make it far less risky because we can simply vig him if his play sucks.

On February 26 2013 12:26 Promethelax wrote:


Why not?

On February 26 2013 12:35 randombum wrote:


Why are you treating gathering information and lynching scum as mutually exclusive. This plan involves lynching the scum target and putting another in the spotlight.

I could get it if you said something like "this plan would never work because...." or something like that, but to simply dismiss it because gathering information is bad?

On February 26 2013 11:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Why would anyone who is town offer an RNG solution? You seriously pushed it then when everyone called it stupid you say it's just for discussion? Now that I'm reading filters I've changed my mind. Promethelax needs to be lynched.

1. "Oh, I only did it for discussion"



GREAT DISCUSSION. If, like you claim, you wanted to create a discussion that would benefit the town and reveal peoples intentions you have failed miserably. You have contributed nothing to the discussion. A question was asked of you and you offer absolutely no insight into the point of the RNG, the intentions of your plan, the intention of anything, it's just worthless bloviating. This post is wet garbage.

If you want to create a discussion, push your point. That's what town does. Town explains his reasoning, pushes the rest of the town toward his goal. "Hey I'm gonna RNG" and "You're bad player if you don't support RNG" isn't a discussion. You don't have the right to blame the failure of your plan on the rest of the town when you put zero effort into convincing anybody that it was a good idea. Don't dare come out and say you don't really think RNG is a good idea and you only did it as part of some secret scumhunting trap plan because that's bullshit. Please tell me how you planned to find scum or do anything productive this way.

2. RNG isn't transparent. It can't be unless you post a youtube video of you entering everything in and announcing the results. There's no screenshot you can take that proves it was a real RNG.

Also this:


This sounds like a vet scum in his team told him what to say, or a really bad fake scumhunting. The ideas which gerpit proposes weren't worth responding to. You didn't respond to them. You don't seem interested in it. You seem more interested in day plans and your own candidacy, how is that any better than pointing out the flawed reasoning in someones campaign? His point about the nightkills is directly related to gerpit's platform for mayor so your entire accusation is a complete wash.



Thanks for finally explaining that. Although that's a plan that only works if you withhold information from the town and again has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of discussion except for the one that the scum might be having in their private chat.

I don't understand your pressure on Aquanim either. You called him out for a weak accusation of ObviousOne and all of a sudden he's scummy (the best you had done up to that point is argue with VE and point a finger at WoS for bad reason). You ask him to tell you his scumread (which he had already stated and explained) and all he did was basically say the same thing he already said, but now it's townie? It's really unconfident and nothing about aquanims accusations against OO changed at all.

That's my best guess for right now. Feel free to convince me otherwise. Which mayor is going to lynch Promethelax again?

On February 26 2013 13:19 randombum wrote:


Honestly, I'm not good enough to figure out mafia day one based purely off what people have posted. That's partly why I find a plan which is designed get as much information as possible so appealing.

On February 26 2013 12:48 MilkSuckler wrote:

Agreed. Until I see a better plan: I am going to vote for someone who is going to lynch my top scum read.

My top scum read is still formulating: but I am going to look specifically at players that came in at the start, chipped in a little to blend and then fucked off without actually contributing a thought.

Even if a mafia is present among the early contributors (its been like 20-30 pages in <4hrs) its going to be a crapshoot to identify scum out of that group (other than Prome and perhaps WoS who are under heat)

On February 26 2013 14:10 MilkSuckler wrote:

You are misinterpreting the post.
I don't have a problem discussing this further with you: but your tone is over the top and comes across more as a drill sergeant spitting in my face.

That aside, the post was more so highlighting I intended to vote a mayor who will lynch my top scum read as opposed to all this pardoner bullshit.

The extra stuff was added there because I felt it was useful: not everyone has 10k posts under their name Dr.

On February 26 2013 14:40 randombum wrote:


Are you purposely trying to mis-interpret me?

How does somebody being mayor and how he plays not give you information? Electing someone mayor puts them in the spot light and puts a ton of pressure on them. You admitted this yourself when you said you didn't want to be mayor. What they do with this allows town to understand them better. If I was for sure he was scum I wouldn't make him mayor I would lynch him.

In retrospect I'm not really able to get proper reads out for the early behaviour since it seems that scummy people seem to be scattered across the categories, but I thought I'd make an on-the-go-attempt to use that type of analysis.

On February 27 2013 02:05 Vivax wrote:
I think the points I mentioned for Prom being scum are more reliable than the ones you use, subjectively.

On February 27 2013 00:27 Vivax wrote:
I am null on Prom given how he's been handling his reads of me.

On February 27 2013 02:22 glurio wrote:
Game started at 1 am my time, had to work this morning and it took me nearly 3 hours to read all those pages, that's why it took so long to contribute.

On February 27 2013 02:45 Vivax wrote:
I'll fuck off anyway, I'm sure your vet circle will solve this game all by itself.
Don't even know why I'm still posting, everything gets ignored when it's not to call me scum.

On February 27 2013 02:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Where the fuck is OO anyway?

It's like he's content to be second best read for everyone. That's a place where scum feel safe...snuggly.

Vivax is looking a little better since coming back into the thread (in that he's actually contributing meaningfully rather than trolling and fucking off). I don't like him defending Prom though. But I do like that he's analyzing stuff.

My platform has changed. I am no longer willing to lynch into Vivax and would instead replace him with ObviousOne. So a vote for VE is a vote to lynch into Promethelax or ObviousOne - whichever one is scummiest to me at lynch time.

Right now that's Promethelax, but ObviousOne is gaining on him fast the longer he's absent. I happen to have first-hand knowledge of his thought-process with little information (i.e. if he were town) and he's not showing that to me here. He's showing me something I haven't seen before...lurky, no opinions when he is here, short posts explaining nothing, sarcastic in the face of suspicion rather than concern. I think he scum dude.

On February 27 2013 03:28 Vivax wrote:
My case on JJ doesn't have a followup cause it isn't actually on JungleJorge, it was supposed to be on MachoMan, of which I found the response to my post to be quite townie. I put the wrong name in there (happens too often lately).

There are people who didn't even post since the game started, the reason you're not calling them scum based on general contributions is cause you are biased towards only paying attention to the things in front of you.

If you don't bother looking at every player's contribution, then don't bother saying I didn't contribute much, cause I did. Maybe start looking for scum at the playerlist and not just on the last page of the thread.

I don't think you're scum, but you don't need to be to play anti-town. I suggest to look for scum among the less active players. Get them to post at least. I'd especially like JJ to give more than just a defence of Prom since he seems to have actually read the thread, thing we can't be sure of regarding hassy and jcarlson.

On February 27 2013 03:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
Generally people mix up my icon with like Bugs Kita MZ, so I get what your'e saying.

Who's actions were you attributing to me? I'd look but I'm lazy and watching a show right now.

On February 27 2013 03:36 layabout wrote:
I don't get why vivax made a big analysis post and then ended it with "i guess my analysis didn't really work". It served no purpose other than to demonstrate that he is putting in effort. If he had wanted to share his reads why not simply do so?

On February 27 2013 03:46 Toadesstern wrote:

how do you know Matt isn't in the game?

On February 27 2013 03:53 Toadesstern wrote:
Have you ever played with Vivax before doctH? Or read a game with him?

I'll shamelessly quote myself from the mafia awards 2013 thread:

That's the guy you're dealing with...

On a sidenote: Hassy you here?

On February 27 2013 04:11 glurio wrote:
I think vayesh does make sense in what he posts. Yeah hes pretty much just prodding around but thats kinda what you have to do in the beginning. And he has found good points imo.

Jcarlsoniv do you believe prom and vivax are town? If yes, what makes you believe so?

On February 27 2013 06:46 Vivax wrote:


Dude start scumhunting wtf are you doing so useless.

On February 27 2013 11:17 geript wrote:
Fine then Dr. You think I'm scum. Bring the case.

On February 27 2013 15:57 MilkSuckler wrote:

It wasnt a bad suggestion yes. BUT IMHO its not alignment indicative.

Its an easy stance to take (especially for a guy that has played in a setup with the role before)

Further, yes the pardoner might save a lynch; but it effectively makes the pardoner the lynch the next day. I can see scum suggesting to throw this role away no probz. Especially early day1, before the QT is fully organized.


Agreed on all other points.

On February 27 2013 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
But you're prescient enough to know his plan right?

On February 27 2013 16:06 geript wrote:
@Mocsta&Dr.H I need to get sleep before class in the am. I'll be back to answer these around noonish hopefully.

@WF I'll answer you then too when I'm a bit more clear headed.

On February 27 2013 18:30 Vivax wrote:


This post made my scumdar go off, this guy asked two questions about OO earlier but stopped pushing him despite posting the posts at the bottom earlier.

He's currently agreeing with VE on Toad, but he never pressures Oo despite having a scumread on him, he just keeps asking others about their opinion on him.

On February 28 2013 02:15 The Milkman wrote:

They also make tracking additional deaths during the night from possible vigilantes a little harder.
But that's just additional info for personal consideration because as always WIFOM argument is here to stay.
I don't get it why try to pin someone down as SK. That's just as meaningless as trying to determine what smurf is who.
Also DrH, you'd rather see yourself elected as pardoner or BH?

On February 28 2013 02:22 layabout wrote:

Blabber:I thought we had a 72 hour day 1 i had read the daypost more than once as friday not thursday sometimes my brain just does that. Also it seems that prom is being lynched whatever happens. So i wasn't as bothered about finding scum. My preference for mayor was Dr.h because there was a chance he might lynch jcarl and i wasn't sure about VE's campaign. I have also been trying to have more of a thread presence while i am here because over time i consolidated more and tended to lurk as both town and mafia. In fruity my last game if i hadn't been correct in pushing yamato i would have made a good lynch because of my lurking. I also was not the one able to push the lynch even though i put the most content up about him. I also tend to wait before commiting to reads because people don't have much time to post meanfully early on and i like to take my time to sort out my thoughts.

With regards to Prom, read his filter and tell me why it should be different if he is town, i feel like he has done what he should as town and thus does not deserve to be lynched.

Grush is there because i think he filter was a lot better in fruity and there are other players that look more towny than he does.

I defended you due to both the scumhunting point and the fact that i think your town, in part because of your reaction to the vivax analysis. I don't think i was clear enough when i talked about the lack of scumhunting initially but there isn't much i can do about it now.

On February 28 2013 02:35 layabout wrote:

What martyring? I haven't pushed scum because i don't have a player that i think is scum and want to push in thread.

+what i have i claimed was in the purpose of productive discussion?

On February 28 2013 04:15 WaveofShadow wrote:

And so the herd is herded. Something about this really bothers me. Maybe it's because since the Prom lynch has basically been in effect and agreed upon by most everyone in the thread since like hour 3, it makes it very easy for anyone to manipulate what people do based on this. [conspiracy theory] VE is set up on an easy case thanks to easy Prom bus and entire town puts him on the road to election. He slowly gets more and more waffly so that eventually people move off him, knowing that the town will go wherever prom gets lynched and suddenly pardoner becomes an easier role for mafia to attain. [/conspiracytheory] Obviously this isn't entirely likely and probably not a worthy bus if it was set up from the beginning but there are other ways in which the super early decision of a Prom lynch can benefit, including but not limited to the ability to hide all fucking day.

Prom had better be mafia at this point, considering how much confidence was put into this without trying to adhere to any of the plans anyone else has come up with.

On February 28 2013 07:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kind of stupid?

Bad?

Fuck this and fuck you both.

On February 28 2013 07:34 VayeshMoru wrote:


VE has day vigi'd people who he knew were town (as town) to attempt to get someone he wanted lynched. He has revenge killed people for getting him lynched on bad play. He has countless number of examples of this style of play. You pushing for him this hard after his flip flopping of who he'd lynch compared to the steadfastness of Bh and drH baffles me.

On February 28 2013 07:39 The Milkman wrote:

You mean people would not protect you anyway?
It all reminds me of poor Radfield.

On February 28 2013 07:46 layabout wrote:

Your my top townread...

On February 28 2013 07:53 Toadesstern wrote:

I don't really feel like it given that I asked to be replaced out or I'll ragequit this game because of VE. I'm sadly not allowed to do either so again, I'll have to deal with his stupidity and the way I do that is by flaming back everytime he shoots at me and trying to ignore him as much as I can in the meantime.

Yeah I know completly ignoring him would be better but it doesn't work that way for me. For references something from 2 (? or 3?) games ago. Talking with syllo (he wasn't in the game): + Show Spoiler +

On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote:
I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves.
I would also like you to take a look on The Macho Man, as he is my best guess for scum amongst the "active" posters. Again, I'll come back to expand on this as well. See you guys in a few hours.

Promethelax is likely scum. I made that post specifically to see how he would react (as you noticed I didn't provide any reasons). Mostly my concerns were that too many people were pushing for his lynch and there was no opposition to it. Also the main reasons for the suspicion on him was some sudden change of mind or some controversial behavior, and those are normally townie traits.

On February 28 2013 09:41 The Milkman wrote:

Well, JungleJorge's plan reminds me about one of my crapshoot plays in my early days but... Well, it was too abstract and wrong. Like I am not going to stop you, but I think we might have better alternatives. Just a gut I feel somewhere.
As for layabout, as a person who played with him and things did get tense in the past in the games we played I am not that sold he is Mafia, but I'd be glad to read your case and talk about my doubts then, so we have something concrete to talk about.

On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote:
I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves.
I would also like you to take a look on The Macho Man, as he is my best guess for scum amongst the "active" posters. Again, I'll come back to expand on this as well. See you guys in a few hours.

Promethelax is likely scum. I made that post specifically to see how he would react (as you noticed I didn't provide any reasons). Mostly my concerns were that too many people were pushing for his lynch and there was no opposition to it. Also the main reasons for the suspicion on him was some sudden change of mind or some controversial behavior, and those are normally townie traits.

On February 28 2013 11:16 The Macho Man wrote:

when i feel like it brah i lik mye town reads they are easier and almost always right.

On February 28 2013 11:17 JungleJorge wrote:
My light went out right after I proposed to elect prom pardoner, so I was unable to be more useful with my vote. I will be glad to be lynched/vigged whenever I'm wrong about someone. Until then I ask you to bare with me. And stop calling me bad because it's irritating and most of you doing it suck. I did conclude that prome was mafia and ended up voting to lynch him. Now, you may believe I'm scum and was bussing, but until then I'd like to have my posts read and not dismissed.

On February 28 2013 11:45 JungleJorge wrote:

I actually didn't. I was honestly leaning town on him until he made such response. Some aspects of his play looked suspicious, while others were too loose and carefree, thus town looking. I opted to make a defense without stating my reasons to get responses mostly from other players who were not commenting on his lynch. I suspected that if I started the trend and he was scum soon enough other players would join me and provide their own reasons. Obviously what I got was much better, basically a scum claim from prom in my eyes.

On February 28 2013 11:48 MilkSuckler wrote:

Please expound

On February 28 2013 11:54 MilkSuckler wrote:

Yes; but JJ talks as if the reaction was intentional.

Maybe hes a super duper mafia player or whatever, but yeah, I dont see how that action is claimable for town cred.

If anything the action of prome, sealed his fate.. but also leaves JJ as null/leaning scum (I outlined reasons before)

On February 27 2013 11:05 ObviousOne wrote:
Take another look started where I began posting ~9 hours ago or whatever and tell me what issues you have with that outside of me asking people questions that I want answers to. If it's still "seeming interested" then yeah, maybe you're right. I'm actually pretty bored with D1 right now.

I'm contributing of my own volition, not because you're asking me to. I could lurk like fuck and skate by like the other cats who have decided to not play on D1 much or at all, but here I am bearing my thoughts and I am mostly getting shit on for it.

On March 01 2013 04:37 geript wrote:
Dr.H I have you on null plus now after rereading your posts. A liar, ok, but that in and of itself isn't damning and not enough to get you lynched. While I'm not fond of lying in this game in general, I can at least admit to it's usefulness at points. You're keep your own council as is evident by your posts.

Yes I thought about both of you being scum, but both of you being scum makes very little game play sense in the long term as I would expect (as town) you'd be likely to be targeted early or reasonably early. I forget which game it was that I had read previously, but it's like the unwritten rule about Marv; in LYLO, lynch Marv. Makes very little sense in any regard to have 2 people run, passively or actively, for mayor/pardoner. Of the two, VE looks far more like scum to me than you.

On March 01 2013 05:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
Doc I really wish you'd look over OO. I am relatively certain he's scum and you keep ignoring posts I write about him and interactions I have WITH him.

On March 01 2013 05:46 geript wrote:

So are you trying to say now that your capsrage wasn't a planned move to try and move Dr.H into the mayor slot intentionally?

On March 01 2013 05:11 geript wrote:
I didn't say that I changed my mind on your attempt to run for Mayor instead of pardoner. Just that I felt like you lied about your attempt to run for mayor. In reviewing your posts, I stepped back and it looked (to use a previous analogy) more like Apollo in searching for the right guy than a underhanded attempt at pardoner.

On March 01 2013 06:10 geript wrote:
Well then DrH, is it like him to play towards the group in allowing someone else to be elected because that what 'the town' wants?

On March 01 2013 06:18 VisceraEyes wrote:

I guess I have to ask why you never commented on this fact when I brought it up DAY ONE Doc. It was just as relevant then as it is now, considering how strong your opinion of "scumProm" was - his flip shouldn't have changed that much for you.

On March 01 2013 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
But we're talking about my posts Doc - it's not about reading Toad's posts or OO's or anyones...we're talking about "Direct Mayoral Opposition" posts.

On March 01 2013 06:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's even consolidated and sucinct like you like - same with the OO case you "didn't have time to read".

On March 01 2013 06:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well now he's the leader of a scum wagon Doc. I wanted to lynch him yesterday and was called bad and stupid for it.

On March 01 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
...........

Like there's no response to that...whatever, do what you can. I'm waiting.

On March 01 2013 08:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Guess there can't be anything done about people not having a clue... Anyways shoot Macho / Grush and one out of BC / chez.
There'll be 2 or 3 mafias in there imo. The lynch on prom wasn't easy because it was an early bus (I know I'm town I am pretty damn certain VE and Laya are just being stupid right now) but because noone did something against it.
I'd say that means we have a vet on team mafia who wasn't around or wasn't active. That's BC and Chez for me right now. Maybe Dr.H because he started being active late but that's unlikely.

Don't lynch VE if someone was really stupid enough to shoot me because of what people said lately and don't listen to any "one of VE/Toad has to be mafia crap". We're both really egocentrical, both really volatile, both really proud, both resentful and those kind of attitudes easily clash with each other. So despite still being really angry about this game and being told I'm mafia for *insert random towntrait here* I realy don't think he's mafia.
Look for people who kept on telling bullshit about how we should be lynching into anyone like VE or me today (once grush and Macho are dead) because again, I'm pretty damn certain there won't be a mafia in Laya / VE and I'm also pretty damn certain Dr.H / BC aren't stupid.

Maybe BH is an alternative as well, he's been really unreasonable throughout d1 but that's kind of his thing so he's really hard to judge for me and I'd say BC / Chez are way more likely to flip mafia than BH is. Still, don't listen to anyone spouting nonsense about how we have to lynch into people looking good because the lynch was to easy. If that's the case (I'm pretty certain it wasn't) you deal with those people later on. Deal with people who are easy to read and lynch people who are looking bad because they're looking bad. Don't make it overly complex and try to pull big plays by lynching some random dude that makes 0 sense to lynch unless *insert fancy conspiracy theory* is true.

That's it from me for today. I ignored everything VE said.

On March 01 2013 09:42 The Milkman wrote:
I cannot believe that a sane medic would leave mayor unprotected.
Like, no way in hell.

On March 01 2013 09:50 Aquanim wrote:

Why would you have protected WaveofShadow?

On March 01 2013 09:51 WaveofShadow wrote:

Lol I don't even understand this one myself. I don't know vets/smurfs...which one is BC?

On March 01 2013 09:55 WaveofShadow wrote:

Which of my ideas don't you agree with? Insight plx, oh wise one.

On March 01 2013 10:00 Vivax wrote:


I'm being told that I've been roleblocked and that's it.

Can we lynch MilkMan pls?

On March 01 2013 10:26 MilkSuckler wrote:

I dont think it was early day one.. no1 has rided the town cred hard enough (not even Dr. H)

I think it was an adapted bus situation... seriously.. if the case was just Dr.H.. prome prob woulda responded

but with Dr.H/me/Wade.. bus time occured. (in my opinion)

wat? Are you kidding me? I did more than anyone in this game so far. The game started 01 am my time. That's really late and still everyone's on prom because of the 3 posts I DID about him and laya / VE and later on everyone else agreeing with what I said / repeating what I said about prom in everyone's one words.

I'm just trying to understand what you're accusing me of... especially considering that I've got people in skype laughing about me because it's so obvious I'm town this game and I won't stand a chance next time I roll mafia if I keep on playing the way I am right now.

Was kind of busy owning mafia and playing dota inbetween.

how do you get that idea I'm disinterested in communicating my own reads? Communicating my own reads is the reason we're where we are yet because again, I was the guy who just said what was on his mind while people like laya / VE and later on other people only ended up saying "yeah saw that as well Toad, agree".

About how "dominant" I usually am... again I said I'd bet VE's left ball on prom being mafia 2 hours into the game. How much more dominant do you want me to be? I usually stop repeating myself after saying the same thing 3 times or something like that and I think everyone understands what my reads are about now.

let's wait and see how Prom flips. Pretty sure he'll confirm me as town.

well if he does flip red there's no way I'm mafia. If he's somehow going to flip green it's back to null/whatever you've got me on based on my thread presence (should be pretty obvious townie) I guess but I'm quite confident.

whatever. I most likely nailed mafia 2 hours into the game

you're welcome

that being said Laya, VE (sadly), and I myself are all pretty much confirmed town, dr.H as well though not as much (from a objective point of view ignoring everything else because of timestamps, if you add everything else he probably looks better than the 3 of us).

So protecting anyone in that list sounds good to me.

On February 26 2013 08:57 Toadesstern wrote:

No bodyguards means I'm not going to run for mayor :3

On March 01 2013 11:40 geript wrote:
Since you're here DrH... I brought up 2 posts Toad made twice regarding eliminating the pardoner role... Can you comment on them please.

On March 01 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
DoctorH, you're pointing out a lot of odd things in Toad's play but you haven't actually said you think he's scum. Are you waiting for someone else to do it for you? Or do you have reservations about Toadscum?

On March 01 2013 12:23 Promethelax wrote:
late GG to all, sorry for my shoddy play with special apologies to my team. Best of luck!

On March 01 2013 11:48 geript wrote:

Lets assume for a second that this is the case, does that give anymore suspicion to people who followed me into trying to get Prome elected pardoner thus forcing VE's hand in the selection process.

On March 01 2013 12:37 grush57 wrote:
##Shoot: Chezinu
##Vote: Toadesstern
These 2 are scum...

On March 01 2013 12:43 Chezinu wrote:

You and wade ordered the day vig to shoot me. The majority of town voted for you two. I had flashback of getting shot by motbob day one. I shot milkman because thats who I was currently hunting and he never responded to me.

On March 01 2013 12:45 WaveofShadow wrote:

I hate my brain.
+ Show Spoiler +

On March 01 2013 12:45 jcarlsoniv wrote:
So wait...

DrH, if Chez flips town, would you be looking at grush to be scum dayvig?

It's something like this that would make it easy for grush to gain towncred cuz he can claim "I WAS JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS FROM DRH"

On March 01 2013 12:47 MilkSuckler wrote:

excellent observatoin

I am really surprised Dr.h was on the ball to try and clear Chezinu asap... was very well executed & clear visioned

im also surprsied Dr.H didnt post that reasoning before the kill went up....as it was generic and could have been issued at any point.

On March 01 2013 12:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Why are you necessarily making the assumption that there is 1 town dayvig and 1 scum dayvig?

Why couldn't there be 2 town dayvig?

On March 01 2013 12:47 Chezinu wrote:

That's was my point. And why I shot before being shot at. Its like Here mafia day vig shoot chez without any repercussions!

On March 01 2013 10:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Having a bitch of a time on Toadesstern's filter.

A few things stand out to me which is that after his push on Prom (which was 2-3 posts that didn't go longer than a paragraph or two), he immediately started patting himself on the back and spending the rest of the day arguing with other people about himself. It was his idea to kill the Pardoner (a plan he admitted was bad when he thought about it pregame) but still wanted to discuss it and even push it at the end of the game.

What I don't get is why a scum Toades would vote for VE under any circumstance when he knew there was a chance VE would kill him.

Other than that, I see no reason to believe Toadesstern is really town in this game. He's quick to anoint himself as the star and most useful player in the thread but was absolutely useless for Day 1. Plenty of people came to the same conclusion on Prom without his help (I wasn't even aware of his case when I made mine) and he is more than willing to toot his own horn for it. Killing off the pardoner as well would only give him 2x the town cred. There are a few other little things, like his disinterest in being mayor I find curious.

He said essentially he'd only run for mayor if he could lynch a veteran, really strange thing to say. The fact that there are no bodyguards I now understand to be only relevant for scum because a well playing townie is a target regardless of whether they are elected or not. That kind of immediate survival instinct rubs me the wrong way.

On March 01 2013 10:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Toades hasn't?








(crediting himself solely while discrediting the people who are helping push and pressure prom, interesting)




RED ALERT RED ALERT RED ALERT









After the bus the next brilliant bit of analysis (grush although he provides absolutely no reasoning for it) is that we should shoot a random vet just cause mafia probably has a vet on their team.

Also the way he jumped all over MilkSuckler at the beginning of the thread is laughable. Look how he left the Prom lynch completely alone. He started it and everyone else did all the work pressuring Prom and Prom never responded to it. The really scummy thing that Prom did happened many many hours after Toades original accusation (I hesitate to call it a case simply by formatting). In it, Prom avoids attacking Toades or any of his accusers instead pointing a random finger at JJ before signing out.

On March 01 2013 10:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
notice also toades is not willing to give me ve or layabout an ounce of credit for the lynch, calling us sheep and patting himself on the back (read his filter) then after the flip he gives us some credit, that's a bit odd

also why would in his mind that confirm any of us? has he never heard of a bus before or is he trying to deliberately avoid that kind of thinking altogether

On March 01 2013 10:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


I more or less agreed with this sentiment from the beginning of the game but it's actually quite curious. As town, if you're playing very well you're just as much of a target whether you're mayor or not. From a scum perspective, the extra attention from mayor is unhelpful and it might be hard to explain why you survive multiple nights as the mayor. The bodyguards mean no protection from night investigations or vigilante hits. This is a minor + for Toades leaning scum, but on its own it isn't enough to really classify him as scum.

what better way to push his lynch and pardoner plan then to run for mayor anyway? nothings really adding up for me here

On March 01 2013 11:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Look at Toades initial attack on MilkSuckler. It was of course complete bullshit and he later rescinded his vote but he immediately jumped on MilkSuckler for saying he wouldn't lynch a vet Day 1, an opinion that plenty of people have and is a very common stance that any TL Mafia player would pick up on. He jumps on him for "sheeping", an easy Day 1 vote for a highly aggressive player. For someone who played so aggressively in the first few hours of the game, it makes no sense for him to disappear from the rest of Day 1 and stop putting pressure on everybody despite the fact that he was present. He was clearly just waiting for the Prom flip to confirm him, he has more posts talking about how Prom would eventually confirm him scum rather than speculating on who else might be scum or trying to nail anybody else. Wasted his time.

The fact that he didn't even consider the fact that it could have been a bus is odd. Toades is logical. If he was town, of course he would credit himself but why would this confirm me or layabout or visceraeyes? If Toadesstern really thinks mafia would never attack their own player or let them be lynched then he is sorely mistaken and I can't honestly believe he would ignore the possibility so starkly unless he was deliberately trying to avoid bringing it up.

On March 01 2013 11:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


Not your posts but I did think that through (I'm leaving in a minute), he admitted that he considered the plan pregame and determined it was bad but felt it was important enough to discuss at length anyway. He ignores it for the rest of the game until the last few hours then pushes for it. It is a pro-town idea in theory but it would just be another reason for him to credit himself as the best townie of all time, I don't think it's consequential at all.

But if I personally decided a plan of mine was shitty (and I've had several) I wouldn't even bring it up, it would be a less productive discussion that talking about who I think is scum and I can't believe that Toades would just stop at Prom. No one else did, but he calls them the sheep? Heh.

On March 01 2013 11:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This logical leap should make it clear

Toad before lynch - Layabout/VE don't get any town cred for supporting the Prom lynch because they just sheeped me
Toad after lynch - Layabout/VE/DrH are all confirmed town because they supported the Prom lynch

On March 01 2013 12:57 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Ok...I think I'm following.

I'm not disagreeing with ridding of Chez. What I'm disagreeing with is the thought process that if Chez flips green, that automatically makes grush red.

It makes him look worse, sure. But it is just as likely that grush could be green and trying to jump on the opportunity to rid of Chez thinking he's scum.

Hypothetical:
Wouldn't a scum dayvig know that Chez is green, and shooting him would reveal that? This makes it seem, in my mind at least, that grush is town just knowing that he wouldn't out himself as a vig if he were scum.

...I think my train of thought it followable

On March 01 2013 13:15 MilkSuckler wrote:
Im over this.. im starting to think grush was just trolling

Geript. i will have a look through what you wrote later on.. im not sure why your pushing the point though.. Toad has enough evidence on him to justify a consolidated vote

So i am not sure what you are trying to prove.

On March 01 2013 13:17 geript wrote:
No, I'd have to look back on the timing of when he brought that up for it to matter. It could possibly be true but not enough on that. I'm saying that when I made the second big push to put prom in the pardoner role, because VE was leading and looking to win it, following my prom pardoner push is scummy because it was an attempt to force VE to be restrained. It's similar to a safety play in bridge.

I will admit that this doesn't look great for me (as I made the follow up push), but its something to think about.

On March 01 2013 13:29 grush57 wrote:
just make sure you don't change your stance when he makes up an afk excuse

On March 01 2013 13:44 randombum wrote:
I agree with the Dr.H's argument on toad. Additionally, he hasn't fixed reason why I didn't like him before he's still not doing much. Originally I thought he was just playing it cool to not die N1, and would unveil more about grush/scum on day 2, but so far nothing that I can see that benefits town.

On March 01 2013 14:27 geript wrote:
If Chez is scum, why shoot the milkman then?

On March 01 2013 14:42 MilkSuckler wrote:


If that claim is fake.. i really think grush should have punishment..

this is bullshit.. its effectively killed off town discussion for god knows how long.. a warning at minimum if my voice means anything.

On March 01 2013 14:44 TestSubject893 wrote:


I promised to post some thoughts and this is the explanation of why I'm not doing that. Its not helpful, I agree.

On March 01 2013 14:46 The Macho Man wrote:

the to bad to be scum argument? The post effectively achieves nothing and it does not look like scum hunting.

Malfuncioning Protectron: You are a bit Broken!! Each night you may "Protect" someone by throwing them in the town's jail. They will be unable to perform actions, but will be unable to be actioned upon. Your target will not be notified if they were protected from a shot in this way because of the concussion.

On March 02 2013 00:59 Toadesstern wrote:
just a regular roleblock, no flavor to it.

On March 01 2013 10:00 Vivax wrote:


I'm being told that I've been roleblocked and that's it.

Can we lynch MilkMan pls?

On March 02 2013 00:58 Toadesstern wrote:

I asked to be replaced out because people kept calling me mafia for reasons that are usally towntraits for me, as already shown multiple times while wrongly labeling it mafia-trait and when showing it just answering "well, you know about your meta, you might play like your town meta to screw with us". Again, there's nothing I can say against bullshit like that, NOTHING and it got me mad to a point that I asked to be replaced out.

Yes I was rubbing it in to show some people how bad they are.

Again, I'm still waiting for a single thing that just shows that I'm supposed to be mafia, you keep saying there's dozen of such things but I haven't seen a single one so far.

On March 02 2013 01:16 Vivax wrote:
What is this flavour story Helvetica. You're making things up. That stuff about the jailer seems to be just that, flavour. Did you even ask the host?

I for sure am not lying and got a standard roleblock notification, so don't try to pull these stunts on me.

@ Oo

You said in your post that Milkman was "confirmed town".

1. Why are you saying this? My points against him were strong and he was scummy, where is evidence that he was confirmed town? Did you know something I do not?

2. Why are you saying that to call me scummy but not to dissuade me from lynching him? And why aren't you pushing for a Chezinu lynch since he shot him?

On March 02 2013 01:58 Toadesstern wrote:
And for the love of god don't lynch Vivax because of "one of Vivax/Toad is a liar" because that statement is wrong, as already pointed out, although it's getting ignored.

On March 02 2013 02:15 The Macho Man wrote:

dr.h do you think scum could write this post?

On February 26 2013 09:06 Toadesstern wrote:
##vote Wade Fell

lynching MilkSuckler seems like the way to go.

On February 26 2013 09:03 Toadesstern wrote:
milksuckler is apparently either an idiot or he's trying to look like one.

I know someone who said the exact same thing (pretty much word for word) last time I played with a mayoral campaign.

Are you trying to imitate someone milksuckler or did you just copy & paste?

On February 26 2013 10:25 Toadesstern wrote:

why did you tell us about being just being a plattform to create talk with if you wanted it to get some real traction?
That kind of counters your idea.

I'd say you wanted to look like someone who wants to create discussion but wants to make sure he looks good. When it became too hot (and it didn't, the timing to go back on that was way to early if you wanted to achieve something, so you're overly defensive for whatever reason) for your idea you went ahead yelling GUYS GUYS, I BE TROLL LOL DON'T TAKE ME SERIOUS

Do we have a dayvig?

On March 02 2013 11:53 geript wrote:
D&Ding. Quite frankly, I don't think there'd just be a Scum day vig. I think Dr. H scum slipped. If that's true, then Chez is town.

On March 02 2013 10:11 layabout wrote:
Is it time to talk about this yet?

I don't get where you are assuming that Chezinu is town, I agree that it's unlikely that town has 2 dayvigs and 1 vig, so one of the dayvigs has to be scum, in case that grush really is a dayvig, and it's our top priority to find that out.

On March 02 2013 06:35 geript wrote:

This looks like a scum slip to me. Like someone in scum QT wrote there are 2 vigs (referring to Chez/Vivax) and he came over here with the assumption of 2 night vigs.


I had the feeling before that WoS was scripting things. After thinking about Chez more, I buy him as town day big. I think he's right on with his list.

On February 26 2013 09:20 geript wrote:
It looks to me that the best person for mayor is someone who is willing to:
A. put in the time to read the thread
B. both make and evaluate other's cases
C. is unlikely to be an early target for NK
In this regard I would nominate myself as I am more likely to devote more time to reading (both filters and filter in the context of the thread as a whole) than anyone else. Additionally, I am relatively unknown which removes untoward bias for or against me due to previous games as well as making me a more impartial arbiter as it regards established players.

My lynch platform is:
Scum read > hard/impossible to read > null read > town read

## vote geript

On February 27 2013 09:33 geript wrote:

The difference I'm seeing between RO and Prome is that Prome has an underlying agenda; I don't see Prome as being disinterested.

On February 27 2013 09:35 geript wrote:

Can you really say that this is an actually attempt to try and move the mayor role from VE?

On February 27 2013 12:51 geript wrote:
So Aqua, what do you think of Dr.H?

On February 27 2013 14:59 geript wrote:
I'm arguing what his motivation is from what his actions are; call that what you will. No my stance has since his previous posts has become more firm in that I trust him even less. His stance in actuality is that he is fine with becoming either wanting to allow people to slide him in.

On February 28 2013 03:10 geript wrote:

Because there are conflicting reads imo; I actually like many of your posts as I can follow them and see where your head is at an a general direction. I'm just not sold that I'm not being played. In the case of conflicting reads I want more information so I can make a better informed decision and I want to try and remove any confirmation bias.


This is why I'd strongly prefer to soft force the Mayor to lynch the pardoner. They want Prom out, fine; force them to follow up on that. Having him sit around to be town-lynched makes little sense unless they actually think he's town. If people want to pull "shennannies" then I have no interest in them being mayor as they are more likely lying to us.

Since most everyone seems at least ok with Prome being lynched, I suggest moving secondary votes on him to force them to lynch him or risk giving him pardoner long-term.

They want Prom out, fine

On February 28 2013 11:05 geript wrote:

Fine, then investigate and/or vig me.

On February 28 2013 16:26 geript wrote:






So VE, why were you so interested in becoming pardoner? Also, if you didn't care about who stole the town cred then why did you so voraciously attack almost everyone else (Wade Fells seemingly excluded) for bringing up cases or points they made on the subject? Why not just admit that you're scum and make it easy?

Sorry Mocsta but I don't care about Dr.H much right now. I also don't understand why'd you have me change the subject off of VE when he's a lying so much.

On February 28 2013 16:40 geript wrote:
You went on the offensive to prevent anyone else from getting credit. You've lied multiple times about whether or not you wanted to lynch Prome. You've lied multiple times about whether you're running for mayor. You've intentionally tried to grab at pardoner which is a pro-scum role. You've lied about not trying to take credit for the mayor lynch. There's nothing that can be trusted about you. You're scum.

On February 28 2013 17:48 geript wrote:
Everyone just stop whatever they're doing and read VE's filter now. His last post makes absolutely no sense. It's also incompatible with VE's personality. He's Type A; he's a honey badger. He don't give a fuck. Why, if he's so confident in his reads, would he not pull shennannies? Why does he try to step down? VE, you best be glad I don't have a gun, because you'd be dead.

Dr.H I have you on null plus now after rereading your posts. A liar, ok, but that in and of itself isn't damning and not enough to get you lynched. While I'm not fond of lying in this game in general, I can at least admit to it's usefulness at points. You're keep your own council as is evident by your posts.