EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXVI - Page 15
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 30 2013 01:55 warbaby wrote: Having other obligations (SlayAlot) is different from being warned for playing the game improperly (Acid~). Acid~ has still not explained why he signed up for this game knowing he had 24 hour work shifts coming up, or why he thinks this is OK. Apart from the fallacy of your logic, What does that have to do with being scum? Pretend that Acid is this horrible guy that you make him out to be. He signed up without sufficient time to really participate. What makes that scummy? Keep in mind that he certainly didn't know alignment before he signed up... You just need ways to attack the guys you don't like, the guys who are willing to challenge you. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
Is signing up for a game you don't necessarily have the time to play a scum tell, warbaby? | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely). In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting. I don't think B) could happen either, since Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... although if anybody can come up with a plausible scumteam that was simply afk all night 1 I'm listening. I'd love to discuss what actually happened N1, which I see as a great win for town. Note that there is one variation of the setup that allows for both JK and Doc (if I'm not reading the wiki wrong here -- love to see our authority on math and statistics, Acid~, to contribute on this point, but he's probably won't bother responding to this post, assuming he ever reads it). If the blue is doc, should they claim? I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful. If the doc exists and claims, and scum kills them, we end up with a 100% confirmed town and a no kill on Night 1. Is this good for town? I'm not sure if this makes sense. I haven't put a lot of thought into reasons and possible results around town power role claims. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
On January 30 2013 02:00 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: Is signing up for a game you don't necessarily have the time to play a scum tell, warbaby? No, but I think the only reason he could have voted for me as town is to pressure me, and I don't know how he plans to effectively pressure me if he's not here. I think that's somewhat scummy. He also admitted to not reading the whole thread before voting, which is super scummy. Both you, Zare, and Corazon called me out for voting rashly. At least I read the whole thread first =_= If Acid~ was just modkilled N1 for breaking the rules I wouldn't be making this argument. I think it sucks that he's still in this game and STILL RIGHT NOW AT THIS VERY MINUTE failing to contribute, without any acceptable explanation. I also think he lied when he said he had to go to work for 24 hours. A) He posted again like an hour later. B) I assume working for 24 hours straight in Germany is illegal because they have strict labor laws. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote: If the blue is doc, should they claim? I believe accepted theory in these games is that blues only claim when they are a) up for mislynch or b) in a MYLO/LYLO situation. I'm not sure I 100% agree with the theory, but I believe that is it. On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote: I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful. Clairvoyant, as a term, has its roots in french. Clair = clear, Voyant = seeing. Together, they are "Clear-seeing". The connotation is generally associated with future-sight. I'd say clairvoyant is a pretty good way to describe our Doc/JK after they successfully saved a townie (or blocked the mafia performing the KP, either or). They saw through the situation clearly, and predicted who was gonna get hit (or in the case of a JK, they may have predicted who is mafia). Obviously the chances of pulling it off again are not that high, but everybody knows that. Baseless accusations that I "sound like sadscum" are somewhat interesting, but they only help town by demonstrating your scumminess really. Either way, I really wish PM's were allowed in this game  Still waiting on something (anything) from Cakepie | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
I don't believe in the supernatural, so I simply can't accept your claim of clairvoyance. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I think what Sn0_Man said about blue claim theory makes the most sense for now -- wait until you're going to get mislynched or you're in a MYLO/LYLO situation, or at least near one. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 30 2013 02:26 warbaby wrote: I don't believe in the supernatural, so I simply can't accept your claim of clairvoyance. ??? I didn't say the blue did some voodoo ritual to divine who they should target... I said the blue had "clear view", that they saw through the situation and acted accordingly. Please tell me you guys see this shit he's pulling as scummy? Trying to associate my arguments with belief in the supernatural, saying that being impressed with the save makes me sound like sadscum, I mean come on. ##Vote: warbaby I want this vote down and ready. As of now, the onus is on YOU (warbaby) to either a) prove your innocence or b) demonstrate extremely convincingly why somebody who is NOT you is scum. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
Sn0_man, I misunderstood what you were getting at, and I was also just making a silly joke. So far my scum reads are on Acid~, you, and glurio. I tried to make a case on Cora while we were sparring last night, but I don't think it makes sense to pursue him any more right now. I think he was very town in his sparring with me. You're asking me to make a case against someone other than Acid~. Since I will immediately be accused of OMGUS if I make a case on you, Sn0_man (who I currently claim is my #2 scum read), I guess that leaves Glurio. I'll review the thread and see if I can make a case on Glurio, or someone else other than Sn0_man and Acid~. That's a totally reasonable request to make of me given my play so far. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:44 warbaby wrote: You're asking me to make a case against someone other than Acid~. Since I will immediately be accused of OMGUS if I make a case on you, Sn0_man (who I currently claim is my #2 scum read), I guess that leaves Glurio. Not quite true but OK. All you have to do is convince me to vote for somebody else. I've heard your arguments on your "#1 scum read" Acid. Feel free to keep banging away but so far it isn't convincing me of anything beyond your scumminess. If you wish to attempt to convince me that I am scum, feel free. I expect it would be about as effective as anything else you are gonna try. On January 30 2013 02:38 Sn0_Man wrote: As of now, the onus is on YOU (warbaby) to ... demonstrate extremely convincingly why somebody who is NOT you is scum. I'm interested to hear your take on glurio though. I thought that his play this game is much like his play last game: lurky, low contribution, but kinda excited to be playing and just not too familiar with how he should act. Seemed pretty townie to me in that light, but by all means show me what he has done that is scum-motivated. One thing to clear up, and this is directed at ALL PLAYERS: just because somebody hasn't posted as much as you want them to, doesn't make them scum. It isn't "scummy" to disappear for 12+ hours. Admittedly, it isn't helping town, but this is a newbie game and there are many players that simply won't put the time in. If you wish to argue that "person X" is abusing this fact, demonstrate exactly how their actions are scum motivated and how the answers that they HAVE provided are crafted from a scum perspective. Lynching lurkers incessantly is not at all a surefire way to get scum. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
Warbaby's case on Glurio 1) Most of glurio's posts are backing up someone else's stated opinion, although he does add some of his own analysis. First he backed me on Acid~, then he backed Sn0_man against me. I think this makes it look like he's not doing his best to think for himself. 1.a) A majority of glurio's posts are backing up sn0_man and tunneling me, but he never explains why he thinks sn0 is town (assuming they are collaborating as town, not scum). Does glurio think sn0_man is town, and what evidence is that based on? I'd like Glurio to respond to this. 2) Glurio's D1 vote on SkaPunk was kind of pointless, and could be seen as bussing Ska. Ska was already set to be lynched when glurio voted Ska, so I'm not sure if glurio was really helping us pressure Ska, or just voting to make sure town Ska got lynched. 3) We're well into D2, and glurio's filter is less than a page long. This level of contribution is not going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio. Now that I've made a case on someone other than Sn0 and Acid~, maybe Sn0 and Acid~ can make a case on someone other than me. They're tunneling me hardcore, it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time. Also, Sn0 I agree with your last paragraph there. That's exactly why I think what Slayalot is doing is not scummy. But Acid~ failed to vote D1. That's against the rules and anti-town. 12 hours is ok like you say. 24 is not. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:15 warbaby wrote: EBWOP: Glurio's level of contribution is ONLY going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio. Scumslip. You know he's town, proven by the phrase "other towns". The fact that you a) have this info and b) are still making an argument against him... yeah. Nice one. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:13 warbaby wrote:it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time. I also don't think I've ever even mentioned you tunnelling, much less criticized you for it, so putting that in your post was pretty unnecessary. Either way, all this flailing about isn't helping you. I just wish we had more people around posting. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:40 Sn0_Man wrote: Either way, all this flailing about isn't helping you. You ask me to make a case. I make a case. You accuse me of "flailing about". I'm sticking to one of my earlier scumreads, and making the case you asked for. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:40 Sn0_Man wrote: I also don't think I've ever even mentioned you tunnelling, much less criticized you for it, so putting that in your post was pretty unnecessary. I thought the whole reason you asked me to make a case on someone else, was because you thought I was tunneling Acid~. Sorry if I misunderstood your motive. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
----- 1. I count N1 as a qualified success in that no one died. Sn0 discussed: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: What I would like to discuss right now is the night action. Remember that NOBODY DIED last night. The scenarios that I can think of for that are: A) Mafia shit the bed (pretty unlikely given that they have a coach), B) Both mafia members are/were inactive (Cakepie...  )C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely). In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting. As warbaby also pointed out, there is a possibility of both JK and Doc being present, so you must not discount that. This takes me to the next point: ----- 2. Nobody has made any claim of being roleblocked. (All roleblocked targets are notified if they were blocked successfully). Hence, either: a. there is no jailkeeper, or b. someone is hiding something, and the j/k knows this. Note that (b) is reliable even if there are both doc and j/k in the game. A doc, if present in this game, cannot assume that the nokill is due to a successful save by them -- it may be due to success by a possible jk. Whereas the j/k at this point can conclude that their N1 target has chosen to not reveal that they got roleblocked. And in a newbie game, that is equivalent to a lie. However I don't think that this information is valuable enough to be worth a roleclaim so early in the game. Careful crumbing might be useful. (likewise with the doc's possible confirmed townie) ----- 3. Guys, remember that the bad guys have a rolecop as well. ----- 4. On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: [...] Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... I replaced into the game with 2h remaining in N1 phase, in the middle of my workday. Be reasonable about it. In fact, you'll have to bear with a couple days of reduced participation from me as I was not expecting to have to replace in this early: On January 25 2013 03:09 cakepie wrote: I was postponing my signup since I'm still going to be fairly busy for the next week or so and the roster wasn't filling up, but if you guys are moving to a 9P setup then I'll just /replacement I have to teach a 90 min lecture in an hour from now and another one in two days, the prep work for that has been keeping me fairly busy. I'll try to devote as much of my free time as possible, but my schedule really only starts to open up toward the end of the week. | ||
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