I'm as in as in can be and I'm glad to see that incontrol isn't the only other guy playing.
/in
edit: Before we start I'd like to say that I am trying to develop a new meta, my old one (easily witness-able in the recently completed ACME) takes too much time which I just don't have in my life right now. I'll do my best to play well though. My usual pre-game warning: I work overnights on the weekends, I won't be here for long stretches of the weekend due to that.
And Grey, assuming I know nothing about ChronoTrigger (safe assumption) is there anything I should look into or should I assume that the game will follow internal logic and knowing about CT will not be necessary?
On November 19 2012 10:24 Promethelax wrote: I'm as in as in can be and I'm glad to see that incontrol isn't the only other guy playing.
/in
you scare me sometimes.
in a good way?
is creepy good
:p
ah, a good way. I'm glad.
After I died in acme I had a dream where Marv kicked me in the knee and ran away screaming Juuuuuuuuuubjuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub. Mafia is taking over my brain.
On November 19 2012 10:24 Promethelax wrote: I'm as in as in can be and I'm glad to see that incontrol isn't the only other guy playing.
/in
you scare me sometimes.
in a good way?
is creepy good
:p
ah, a good way. I'm glad.
After I died in acme I had a dream where Marv kicked me in the knee and ran away screaming Juuuuuuuuuubjuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub. Mafia is taking over my brain.
wait a sec have you ever met marv in real life how would you know what he looks like?
Or did your brain just make an image of marv and you said that is marv?
On November 19 2012 10:24 Promethelax wrote: edit: Before we start I'd like to say that I am trying to develop a new meta, my old one (easily witness-able in the recently completed ACME) takes too much time which I just don't have in my life right now. I'll do my best to play well though. My usual pre-game warning: I work overnights on the weekends, I won't be here for long stretches of the weekend due to that.
I'd also like to announce that I plan to disappear for extended periods of time (assuming I role mafia)
I know, but I work 20 hours in two days every week. Look at any of my games recently (LC, ACME) and you'll see the truth of this.
And my meta makes my fiance hate me. I need to spend less time on mafia when I play.
On November 19 2012 10:24 Promethelax wrote: I'm as in as in can be and I'm glad to see that incontrol isn't the only other guy playing.
/in
you scare me sometimes.
in a good way?
is creepy good
:p
ah, a good way. I'm glad.
After I died in acme I had a dream where Marv kicked me in the knee and ran away screaming Juuuuuuuuuubjuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub. Mafia is taking over my brain.
I do do this irl.
/in
I bet you do buddy. Glad to have you here so you can yell at me in game instead of postgame. I look forward to this and I promise: as scum I'll shoot you d1 to keep your streak going.
You sure? For sure? I don't want to dissuade you from playing mafia but this shit is wack. This set up is crazy and it won't be easy. You up for a wild ride?
Okay man, it isn't my place to say no. I look forward to playing with you, a lot. I love people who live on your side of the world because I work 7pm-6am here which is a 7am-6pm in Singapore so you will actually be online when I will on the weekends.
Do you have mafia experience? I know you haven't played on TL but have you played elsewhere? I'd love to know your experience level before we start and I assume that you are lying all the time.
On November 19 2012 12:20 GreYMisT wrote: My deadlines are always 00:00 GMT (+00:00)
I am fine with a new person in my game only if they are willing to work at it. A bad attitude can lead to not playing in my games again. I might consider some form of coaching, but don't bet on it.
I'd be willing to Hydra with him if you would be more comfortable with him playing that way. The poor guy has been stalking mafia games for a while without managing to get into any.
On November 20 2012 11:49 Dienosore wrote: Ah, so the game has started already, has it?
Good luck everyone.
##Flip: 10g into fountain
I'm not entirely sure that it has. I am, however, sure that I'll ## dance the night away, earn gold from toad
did you not see the last time someone did that she ( I hope it was a girl oO ) ended up paying me. But hey, I'm up for more.
no gender specifications. Clearly was a male.
well someone is pregnant therefore someone is most likely female unless this themed game is really weird.
never trust GreYMisT. Never ever.
Someone has learned the first rule
I learned that in my first ever mafia game of ever. MTG. You may remember it as the one where the host made you the deck you 'requested' which was in fact a list of every sliver in the game.
On November 20 2012 11:49 Dienosore wrote: Ah, so the game has started already, has it?
Good luck everyone.
##Flip: 10g into fountain
I'm not entirely sure that it has. I am, however, sure that I'll ## dance the night away, earn gold from toad
did you not see the last time someone did that she ( I hope it was a girl oO ) ended up paying me. But hey, I'm up for more.
no gender specifications. Clearly was a male.
well someone is pregnant therefore someone is most likely female unless this themed game is really weird.
never trust GreYMisT. Never ever.
Someone has learned the first rule
I learned that in my first ever mafia game of ever. MTG. You may remember it as the one where the host made you the deck you 'requested' which was in fact a list of every sliver in the game.
Oh right, thats what I need to put in my next themed game. Thanks!
Slivers would actually make a sick third party, a small group which is much stronger when all of them are alive but is weakened each time a member dies. Kind of an anti cult.
On November 20 2012 11:51 Promethelax wrote: [quote]
I'm not entirely sure that it has. I am, however, sure that I'll ## dance the night away, earn gold from toad
did you not see the last time someone did that she ( I hope it was a girl oO ) ended up paying me. But hey, I'm up for more.
no gender specifications. Clearly was a male.
well someone is pregnant therefore someone is most likely female unless this themed game is really weird.
never trust GreYMisT. Never ever.
Someone has learned the first rule
I learned that in my first ever mafia game of ever. MTG. You may remember it as the one where the host made you the deck you 'requested' which was in fact a list of every sliver in the game.
Oh right, thats what I need to put in my next themed game. Thanks!
Slivers would actually make a sick third party, a small group which is much stronger when all of them are alive but is weakened each time a member dies. Kind of an anti cult.
Thats what I thought of initially, but I have a next level thing in mind for it.
Will be interesting.
I'm already excited for your next themed game and this one isn't even started...
On November 21 2012 10:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Night post time is awesome!! 8 am for me which is totally fine :D:D
8pm for me. Or 7 maybe, not sure with daylight savings but yeah, good time!
I'm so stoked that this started right now. I have ~2 hours where I'll be around tonight. I totally thought that this thread would be full already and the game would have started earlier. Woo!
So, it seems to me that we need to vote for the towniest player possible for the challenge. I think anyone who wants to be elected as party leader should announce who they will pick to work with them so that they have something which they have to stand by. I don't want mafia to be able to choose an all mafia team (or 3rd party or whatever the hell else GreY put in this game). or, if they do I'd like them to have to at least put their stances in the thread on which players seem most townie and most scummy.
I see Acro has sniped me in terms of the idea of any potential leader posting their core group. Has anyone played in a similar set-up before? Or does anyone have the link to Resistance? I haven't read it.
Based on the fact that Acro had the same though as me and from our last game together I would currently, put him in my team, along with Acro I would add Marv (come on, wouldn't you?) and as third player I would chose Hapa. Hapa is a guy who over many games I have come to like and respect though I once hated him. He is a great town player and a kinda crappy scum player, seems like the right guy to have along for the ride.
TL:DR My team: Acro, Marv, Hapa
I'm curious if putting one player who seems like a liability (one of the guys known for trolling or one of the smurfs) onto the team so that we can get a read on them from their actions makes sense? It seems like we won't have lynches but knowing who scum is/is not will help town players direct any and all actions which they have and i assume making sure that non-town players not being on the quest team will be a good thing for us as the OP specifies that they can make it more difficult to achieve our objectives.
My post on the end of page twelve just got all covered up. Please go read it.
Marv and Hapa, I'd love your thoughts on the idea of whether choosing a party based on player strength or obvious d1 townieness makes more sense and why that is so.
Hapa: it'd be cool if you had mentioned that first and stuff. Note how I said pre-game that I am working on my meta that was when I didn't know who I was. Not after I knew...ah well enjoy your month late turkey anyway. Not really an attack on your scum play, more a compliment of your town play. The two are so distinct because your town play is so good...you dug yourself that hole.
On November 21 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Yes since this is my first game, you guys cant use leet haxzor skillz metareading on me Also Prome, your meta doesnt seem to have changed a lot, still walls of text. I really dont want to do Acro suggestion right now cause most people havent even started to post yet so Im pretty sure that our supposed 'teams', if we suggest them now, will change by the end of the day.
This here is why i want your team stated. that allows us, as a town, to view the evolution of your reads and gives us something to pressure you on and understand. Give us your team. I know you know some of the players in this game and, though you haven't played you have been present in some /obs qts. Would you be kind enough to share which games you have obs'd/ thanks
As to my meta my goal is to move towards the walls of text full of content and away from the hanging out, fun atmosphere of my previous game. I'm a heavy poster but I want to start to tone down the amount of time I spend on mafia, my fiance hates me fore the amount of time I put into games and my goal is to be more exact with my posts, wasting them less.
Kita: thanks for the links.
Sandro; if this party will consist of three people you deem as clearly town why not let one of them be leader? Or the same party but with someone else leading them. What is it that makes you the best leader? All you have stated is why your party would be what it is.
I also forgot that Kier was in this game, he would probably be on my team because <3, first guy to ever catch me as scum.
On November 21 2012 11:32 Promethelax wrote: I also forgot that Kier was in this game, he would probably be on my team because <3, first guy to ever catch me as scum.
Teehee <3
Also, remember, we aren't necessarily voting for the TEAM, just the leader. Then the leader chooses the team to go with him. Of course, whoever we elect for party leader has to be accountable for his choices, but just throwing out 3-4 names for a team isn't really a "read".
But should the party leader change their mind on who they pick they will need to provide real reasons which should come from real reads. Just as if I were to fos someone and later call them town, you would want to know why. This game does not have a lynch mechanic, it has a leader mechanic and therefore we should use that mechanic to force people into giving reads.
I propose that we limit the leader voting to a small pool of players (~3-5) that way they can run true campaigns for the position and all others run campaigns to be chosen as a member of their party. That is if the vote were between Me, Marv and Clarity each of us would say why you should vote us and everyone else would try to show what it is they bring to the team.
If we could limit the leader voting after 24 hours to a small pool we will be able to have a more productive d1, think of this as similar to a lynch consolidation but doing it early enough that everyone still has a chance to make a difference and no votes are left on players who have no chance of becoming leader.
On November 21 2012 11:32 Promethelax wrote: I also forgot that Kier was in this game, he would probably be on my team because <3, first guy to ever catch me as scum.
Teehee <3
Also, remember, we aren't necessarily voting for the TEAM, just the leader. Then the leader chooses the team to go with him. Of course, whoever we elect for party leader has to be accountable for his choices, but just throwing out 3-4 names for a team isn't really a "read".
But should the party leader change their mind on who they pick they will need to provide real reasons which should come from real reads. Just as if I were to fos someone and later call them town, you would want to know why. This game does not have a lynch mechanic, it has a leader mechanic and therefore we should use that mechanic to force people into giving reads.
Prom, what do you mean by this?
I mean that our leader vote mechanic is how everyone not running for leader gives reads (if I vote Z-bo as leader for instance that says "I trust Z-bo and agree with his plans for the way the party should be constructed). Party leaders need to have something for which they are accountable, it isn't their vote, instead it is the team they propose. That team is much better if it is town (the success of the mission depends on them being town) and therefore we use the mechanic to make people give town reads instead of scum reads.
Is that clearer? It makes sense in my head but I'm not sure that it translates well onto paper.
1. Never gonna happen: it's like a mayor campaign. Everybody who wants to be mayor will campaign regardless of what you say.
2. Gonna happen automatically: just as any votes, they will eventually gravitate to one or two players: in this case town reads instead of scumreads.
3. It's a terrible idea as it gives people an excuse to lurk (hey, they don't have to have opinions because you have excluded them from being party leaders anyway)
I dissagree with you on the first point but on the third I think you are actually right. (The second is null, I'd like an early consolidation instead of a late one but that feels more stylistic than anything). I'll drop it for now but I would still like early consolidation. Even if I can't enforce it.
On November 21 2012 11:53 kitaman27 wrote: Something that I just thought of that we may be able to take advantage of later on are name claims. It seems unlikely that there are multiple versions of certain characters running around. For example, if we were to have a likely town character such as Lucca name claim, we could elect her as leader. This however is based on the assumption that the alignment in this game is tied to the alignment of the video game. Until this becomes clear, I wouldn't be confident in trying to abuse the setup like this. Also, we would have to worry about the mafia being given certain fake claims, but this is something that is less of a threat, considering the potential reward.
We also have the option as town to enforce an additional party member selection vote. This limits the power of a single player, but it makes it easier for the mafia to sneak in one of their own in the 3rd of 4th slot. I think I'd rather put faith in the elected leader, to avoid the manipulation, assuming myself or my candidate of choice is elected.
I think having faith in the electoral system is a good idea. We're more likely to chose one good town player as a whole than four town players individually. Whomever is elected i will support in their choice of team 100%, we as a town gain more (information and, I believe a better chance of mission success) by giving that power to one person.
On November 21 2012 11:59 sandroba wrote: Yes. I have the power of logic on my side. It's very rare these days.
So you're saying that you deduced that scum will know hp by flavor claims, or anything for that matter? Please explain to us idiots.
I actually agree with Clarity here, I don't see how scum could know the HP associated with a name. However I also oppose a name claim currently. I hate mass claims without a reason and I don't see a reason for one right now. Sand: you haven't learned the rule "never trust GreY"
Kier: would you really vote for Marv? Do you think you have the ability to meta read him well enough to know that he is town? I don't think I could and, unless someone can convince me that he is town or the person he is running against is super scummy I will NOT vote Marv.
Adam, I'd love to hear anything more from you than "I'm a worthwhile player!"
Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on?
Goodkarma: have you played any games since our Newbie Mini Misfortune?
Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who?
Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers.
I would expect an explanation from you, Hapa, as to why you mind changed. Not an explanation from someone else while you got mad about being asked. My version of your town meta is where you pressure people until they cry and admit that they are scum or poop themselves in fear of your tunnels even though they are town.
hapa: How many games have you played with Sandro that make you aware of, and able to read, his meta?
Clarity: I see your reasoning and agree with it, I just don't have that town feel from Hapa. (as Hapa knows I never have a town feel from him).
On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O
Useless. Don't post like this.
On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.
Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa.
----------------------------------------------
I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses.
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
What in the actual fuck. Sure it's information but it's information impossible to decipher. Odds are you'll hit a scum somewhere in your massive pit of chaos but how will you tell the difference between him and the townie who just happened to get it wrong.
Scum will have to choose another person or risk showing their hand and causing the event to fail. Town can freely choose themselves since they know they'll only help with the event.
Doesn't seem chaotic to me. Why is it seeming chaotic to you?
This is fucking stupid. You are aware of this right? Everyone can and should pick themselves. Town know 100% that they are town and scum know that town 100% know themselves to be town so choosing anyone but themselves is butt fuck backwards. This explanation is well past pants on head.
Marv: while Hapa is a cute little hedgehog he is usually a responsive one. Not getting a scum read from his behavior but I am uncomfortable with him not explaining himself and getting defensive instead.
On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O
Useless. Don't post like this.
Thanks for the confidence boost...
----------------------------------------------
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
All this does is show us that you have no confidence in your reads... Also passing the blame if town fails the mission you are leading by saying you didnt pick the party members.. Suspicious behavior
You have confident reads this early? I'm taking the decision given to one person and spreading it to four. Leader can say who he's picking and give his reasons why (if he wants to), and then the three chosen can choose who they want on the team and give their reasons why (if they want to)
That gives us four times the information. How is this bad? Because you have to put more effort into the game and keep track of what people are doing?
Oats: you fluff post was useless. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it. Don't fluff. There is no need. I'm glad to see that you are adding thoughts to the thread now though. Keep that up.
So, Chronicler, you do remember that you are on a Smurf and don't need to be intentionally thick to avoid the NK, right? Because I assume you are a good enough player to need a smurf so you are a good enough player to know that the things you are saying are dumb and won't work.
Hapa: Nothing to explain now. Sorry, didn't word that as well as I meant to. I expected an explanation from you when you were questioned
On November 21 2012 12:53 Clarity_nl wrote: Sharing is caring?
Sharing is great when votes are made, It is early in the day and allowing everyone to continue to play without knowledge of each others town reads is probably for the best. No need for scum to get a chance to plant seeds of doubt on our town reads or to keep working on rowing themselves as townies if we have green reads on them right now.
You'll know my town read when I am confidant enough in it to place a vote. I'd like to learn Acro's at the same time.
You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks.
After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.
## Vote: Acro
Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination.
I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon.
On November 22 2012 02:22 Promethelax wrote: You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks.
After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.
## Vote: Acro
Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination.
I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon.
That's a clear misrepresentation of what happened. Many people were putting their names out there to be party leader and I came about with a different aproach and it got support based on the ideas in it. Mafia hardly ever goes against the consensus and stick their neck out there to oppose in that way. That's a shitty, if not mafia oriented, reason for opposing me. You even include syllo in it randomly and don't comment on why he isn't the choice.
I'm catching up, but writing as I read.
I have never played with either of you before, I have trouble reading you and while it is true that you gained much support on a good idea. One which you got from reading the OP more acuretly than anyone else (we all thought that we needed strong players on the team, you realized that all we needed was townie players) you are a smart guy and, from what I have read of you, I would bet that you would have made this same play as town or scum. The fact that there was not an obvious counter wagon after you makes me lean scummy on you just as an unopposed lynch on day 1 would give me a townie read on the player who was up for lynch.
I did not address Syllo because he did not seem to be a credible candidate to me at that point. I'm not going to vote Acro as he did not try to generate momentum from my vote on him and I will be voting somewhere else instead.
On November 21 2012 12:53 Clarity_nl wrote: Sharing is caring?
Sharing is great when votes are made, It is early in the day and allowing everyone to continue to play without knowledge of each others town reads is probably for the best. No need for scum to get a chance to plant seeds of doubt on our town reads or to keep working on rowing themselves as townies if we have green reads on them right now.
You'll know my town read when I am confidant enough in it to place a vote. I'd like to learn Acro's at the same time.
Well that's an easy way to make sure your town reads don't look so suspicious, isn't it?
nah brah, it is how I play. I don't vote for a scum read until I think they are scum even if the thread as a whole disagrees (look at my d1 town vibes on muso in ACME).
I was about to support Kush as a townie. He talked to me pre game about his fear of the size of this game and the themey-ness of this game. He was truly concerned and did want a just Vanilla game. I would expect more posts from scum kush because he would want to match his meta.
My vote will be on Kita, the candidate I trust. The reasons I trust him 1) I am in his party and know that I am town. That leaves only three others in the party and I have a town read on all three. 2) I am very unhappy with how into Syllo/Sand this thread is. The lack of a real campaign away from theirs worries the shit out of me. Mafia would want to be leader or in the party and the only way that is confirmed is if one of them is mafia. Ergo ## vote: kitaman
I'm keeping up with the thread but doing my best to spam less as I have less to say. Trying to keep my posting short and sweet, this thread is hard enough to read without my help.
GK: 1) I miss being called prox <3 2) Your proposed team is butt fuck bad. Including Sand makes voting you as bad an idea as voting Sand. If I was confidant that Sand was town I'd vote his ass over yours any day (no offense but he is a beast and you are one of the top newbs to come out of the games when I was new. But so are Keir and Hapa). 3) Oats isn't a town read, he is an 'excited to play mafia' read. He reminds me a lot of my first game where I posted all of the posts even though I was mafia and being quiet would have been smarter. 4) you called Djo a weak town read for you and said you couldn't see this team changing.
Sorry bud, not a chance you'll get my vote. I like you as a person but this election ain't for you.
Oats: I read a ton of games and hadn't obsed any. The first game I in'd was the first one I inteded to obs but they needed one more player.
Djo: Acro has been saying things that I think before I think them. Ergo townie read.
Kier: I've been thinking of that as well (encryption could solve this problem ) but the hell with it. I have town reads on everyone Kita plans on picking. I know I am town. I am very worried about Sand/Syllo. I was planning on voting away from them and won't vote for them even if Kita changes his party to exclude me.
Oats: my scum reads, or non-town reads really I'm betting on a three party system, are pretty minor (if I were Marv they'd be pink or something) Hapa reads as non-town to me he has not been the assertive, pushy in my face townie I expect and I don't like it. I will bet that at least one of Syllo/Sand is scum. I think I explained well enough earlier and I'm sticking with that. If you need clarification I can give you that.
so Djo,I hear that you haven't looked at me yet. Give it a go, what do you think? And yes, if Kush is telling the truth (which I think he is, one of them will flip) I think that Kush is town and we'll see how this goes. I have no comment until the flip though.
Syllo, glad to hear it. As such who would compose your party? Or who would not make the cut?
GK: it seems to me that scum want to be elected leader (an assumption but ah well, I have to go with what I have) or at least be a party member, since there were only two candidates who seemed like they would take each other in thier parties I was deeply unhappy. If scum wants be leader (which I believe) than one of Sand or Syllo must be scum. Otherwise a strong candidate would have appeared to oppose them, since that had not appeared I assumed that mafia was content with what we were doing and I was not content with that.
As I said pre-game I am trying to change the way I play. I can't commit the time I have in the past and I am trying to remain an active town asset despite that. If you don't trust me yet that is fine, I'm playing differently than I ever have before and, for some reason people still think I'm a great scum player, you'll realize that I'm town eventually. My activity will always be in spurts.
Kita may not be the best leader but he is better than Syllo/Sand (though I would vote Syllo over sand) and I hate the party you chose. I think that Kita has a chance to be party leader and has a better chance of being town than Sand or Syllo. His town reads also agree with mine.
On November 22 2012 16:11 Promethelax wrote: GK: it seems to me that scum want to be elected leader (an assumption but ah well, I have to go with what I have) or at least be a party member, since there were only two candidates who seemed like they would take each other in thier parties I was deeply unhappy. If scum wants be leader (which I believe) than one of Sand or Syllo must be scum. Otherwise a strong candidate would have appeared to oppose them, since that had not appeared I assumed that mafia was content with what we were doing and I was not content with that.
As I said pre-game I am trying to change the way I play. I can't commit the time I have in the past and I am trying to remain an active town asset despite that. If you don't trust me yet that is fine, I'm playing differently than I ever have before and, for some reason people still think I'm a great scum player, you'll realize that I'm town eventually. My activity will always be in spurts.
Kita may not be the best leader but he is better than Syllo/Sand (though I would vote Syllo over sand) and I hate the party you chose. I think that Kita has a chance to be party leader and has a better chance of being town than Sand or Syllo. His town reads also agree with mine.
Syllo: please answer my earlier questions.
I understand your concerns about a scum party leader winning day one, but I still don't see any reason why Kita is any less likely to fit that bill. He gained zero momentum until now, and I would speculate that from a scum perspective that is because scum would not vote their candidate without some support jumping onto it. Speculation to be sure, but I don't see any reason why he's less likely to be scum than syllo/sand. Also keep in mind that sand upfront gave syllo "veto powers." Imagine how unnecessary (and ridiculous) a move that would be from a scum perspective, when sand had at that point gained considerable momentum in his campaign and had nothing to gain as scum for making such a statement.
Have you read their games? They are each others' foils. If Syllo had vouched for Sand, Sand 100% would have won the election. Explain the no scum motivation.
anyways I'm off to sleep. See you all tomorrow in ~13 hours, best of luck guys.
Hapa, you will not get my vote today. You come to late to change this election and I don't like that you push us away from Sand/Syllo but don't mention Kita except as a 'joke' I agree with you that we should not be voting Sand based on his unopposed candidacy and I didn't want to vote Syllo since he seemed intent on bringing Sand with him on the mission. I still prefer Syllo over Sand and will vote him if things get tight, as it is though I am more comfortable with Kita than either of them, his town reads are still strong to me even though he is not as townine in my mind as any of the three he chose to take with him.
In my catching up I saw Kita post something asking why I was voting him if I didn't think he was the best leader. I thought I had made this clear, he was the best leader with a chance of success. If that wasn't clear my apologies, my intention was to communicate that Kita was the least of the evils which were available to me.
I am sending in my night action(s) now. I will be in the thread for another hour.
Syllo: I believe that it is now time for you to announce the members of your team and the reasons for their inclusion. You probably will win this election and I would like to hear your reasons for their inclusion in your team, you may not be able to give us those reads next day since you may be killed by scum/3party. I don't want to block up the thread with a lot of fluf but I think that your reasons would be a worthwhile inclusion that might protect townies from other townies at a later date.
you'll know when you need to know. It matters to me that I said what i said. It wasn't an accident.
marv, how is your read on me going? I know you have a somewhat scummy read on me even though you haven't said it. why haven't you said it and what do you think?
On November 23 2012 05:46 Promethelax wrote: bleh, Clarity why don't you like GK? And why Phagga over him?
I've had a townread on phagga, but not gk. I don't think hapa's reasons for a townread are valid, although I've obviously not played with gk before and hapa's reasons are somewhat meta.
Why do you have a townread on Phagga though, and why not on GK? What is it about Gk that seems scum to you and what is it about Phagga in particular that seems town to you?
On November 23 2012 05:51 marvellosity wrote: i have said it.
No, you said you are 'somewhat suspicious' of me. Well, why? I know I'm not playing like I have in the past and I'm doing my best to keep that up. I think I have had good thoughts thought and contributed more to discussion than many even with a very low presence.
What answer did you want from me about my Night Actions? What do you garner from what I have said?
Clarity: I'm asking you why you see Phagga as more town than GK, I get having GK null (my read on him is greenish but base don his meta more than anything else), I don't get why you, as opposed to Marv, would have a town read on him.
On November 23 2012 05:56 Promethelax wrote: Marv: why aren't you being Marv?
Clarity: I'm asking you why you see Phagga as more town than GK, I get having GK null (my read on him is greenish but base don his meta more than anything else), I don't get why you, as opposed to Marv, would have a town read on him.
I have no idea what marvs stance on phagga is or was, but how does that matter? Marv already explained my main reason so he gives me no choice but to appear to sheep him. Double bastard.
I was mostly poking fun at marv for answering my question which was directed at you.
So, your reason for Phagga=town is that he responded to Marv in a way you can't see mafia playing? So you read marv as non-mafia?
On November 23 2012 05:56 Promethelax wrote: Marv: why aren't you being Marv?
Clarity: I'm asking you why you see Phagga as more town than GK, I get having GK null (my read on him is greenish but base don his meta more than anything else), I don't get why you, as opposed to Marv, would have a town read on him.
anyone could possibly have a townread on phagga for the reason I mentioned.
I find you suspicious because you first voted Acro while dismissing sand and not mentioning syllo. When later pressed you said that syllo wasn't a main candidate at the time, but you then sidestepped once again addressing his candidacy with the explanation that "you didn't like how much the thread was into sand/syllo". Someone being a popular vote does not make them a bad candidate, and it doesn't chime with how you said syllogism wasn't a serious candidate before.
I admit that part of my 'off' read on you may be because you're trying to change up your style of posting; that gave me an erroneous read on Z-bo last game too.
Syllo and Sand were one in the same. Both appeared to me to be taking each other with them into their teams. When they were the only two candidates this screamed that at least one was scum. I don't get how you don't read it that way. it seems obvious and you are better than I am at this game. Explain to me why I am wrong in the read that one of them must be mafia based on the way the thread went early d1. Honestly I didn't differentiate much between Sand and Syllo which is why Syllo didn't seem like a real candidate early ( he was behind Sand in votes and they were, for all intents and purposes, the same candidate).
Fair enough. I don't expect huge town reads from people who have played with me before right now. I want you to make reads and stick with them though. Don't give me this apologetic bullshit. Play your game Marv and play it right. u scum bro?
Maybe I wasn't clear. I do think that Phagga is town, I just didn't see any reasoning from Clarity and I hate no reasoning. I wanted to get it from him and not from marv but that didn't happen. Nothing I can do about it.
On November 23 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: What apologetic bullshit? What are you talking about?
It's certainly possible sandroba could be mafia, but I doubt syllogism is. But why does one of them 'have to be'?
Also I take a somewhat perverse pleasure that people like you and Kei don't know how to read me accurately still. Although it'd be easier if you simply found me town, of course.
the "oh maybe I'm reading you wrong because you are trying to post differently" you don't have confidence in your read there which is something I expect from you.
one of them has to be mafia because if neither of them was the mafia play d1 was useless and without goal. I've said this before but assuming that mafia wanted to be in the party one of Syllo/Sand is 100% mafia. The only way this is not true is if mafia did not want to be in d1 party.
Sorry bro, I read you as scum right now; we'll see if I'm still bad or if maybe I can read you now.
On November 23 2012 06:15 Clarity_nl wrote: Prome, if marv is scum, and one of the syllo/sand is scum, does that mean syllo is scum? Because the way you're saying it, why would marv be backing syllo if sand is scum?
why would Marv choose a candidate and not push him? marv was like the first dude on Syllo, counter wagon allowed not all scum to be on one wagon and Syllo seemed like he was taking Sand along for the quest. Either one is a success for mafia. Not at all saying this is how that went down but there are good reasons fro marv to do this.
Marv, sorry buddy, maybe I'm just terrible. Prove your townieness in that case. You haven't done it yet and are playing way differently than I expected a town marv to behave. You are playing without your usual assertions and y\there are a few things you have said which just rubbed me the wrong way. Not in the lovely Marv way you usually rub me.
On November 23 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: What apologetic bullshit? What are you talking about?
It's certainly possible sandroba could be mafia, but I doubt syllogism is. But why does one of them 'have to be'?
Also I take a somewhat perverse pleasure that people like you and Kei don't know how to read me accurately still. Although it'd be easier if you simply found me town, of course.
the "oh maybe I'm reading you wrong because you are trying to post differently" you don't have confidence in your read there which is something I expect from you.
one of them has to be mafia because if neither of them was the mafia play d1 was useless and without goal. I've said this before but assuming that mafia wanted to be in the party one of Syllo/Sand is 100% mafia. The only way this is not true is if mafia did not want to be in d1 party.
Sorry bro, I read you as scum right now; we'll see if I'm still bad or if maybe I can read you now.
Mafia have been ditched in elections before today. If both Sandro and Syllo are town, then mafia never stood a chance in this election in any case. Biding their time and waiting till after they can kill off some of the more influential town players seems like a decent move in that case. Or maybe they have some fiendish ability they can use to sabotage a mission regardless of whether there's a scum in it. It'd be super powerful, but god knows what's in this game.
I believe a mafia player would have created a campaign. They could not have known that Sand and Syllo would own the fuck out of this election. Unless they did not want to be in the party which, as you state there could be reasons for. However it is easier for me, and makes more sense according to Occam, that scum wanted to be in the party.
Anyways, its mah birthday and I'm going out to dinner with my folks and my young lady. I'll be back eventually. I hope the quest goes well, gl guys.
Hey all, just checked the day post and this page, since the mission was successful and I'm pretty sure one or the other of Sand/Syllo is scum Vote ## Sand, mission success=Town Syllo (According to Ockham's laser) I'm here and catching up (a million posts for me to read...). I'm all old and shit now.
On November 24 2012 15:21 Promethelax wrote: Hey all, just checked the day post and this page, since the mission was successful and I'm pretty sure one or the other of Sand/Syllo is scum Vote ## Sand, mission success=Town Syllo (According to Ockham's laser) I'm here and catching up (a million posts for me to read...). I'm all old and shit now.
@Prom
If sandro flips town, would you like to lynch syllo after that ?
Nope. At this point the success of the mission tips Syllo into a town read. I'm pretty confidant in Sand flipping scum. If I'm wrong I'll have to re think a lot of things. Back to my long post I gooooo!
On November 24 2012 00:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Hopeless, how does predicting the party show his alignment?
It doesn't, but it is definitely not scummy to me. He called out what I presume are two townies (event success) very early. That supposed ability is why he was a candidate in the first place, and he has lived up to that expectation in my eyes. Granted, he gave little in the way of reasoning, and it would be immensely easy to do so as mafia when you know which 'newbies' are town (or at least not mafia), but its still a point in his favor that his most recently proposed party (die/oats/kush) would likely have succeeded as well. (Man, Cyrus and Glenn in the same party? IMBA!)
On November 24 2012 00:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
On November 24 2012 00:52 Clarity_nl wrote: Can everyone get over the fact that sand has been inactive and just gave a weird excuse and read his filter and my case, please? This goes especially for the people sheeping without giving reasons other than him going inactive.
Wait, I'm doing that thing where I care more about the method than the result again, aren't I?
A little bit, but I don't think you're wrong to insist we make a goddamn read for ourselves.
Your case on sand shows that he's not trying to win the election. His activity could be to blame for that. -> He doesn't give strong or informed reads. Withholding reasons for a townread to me is not scummy until those same townreads become scumreads. If he continues to read a player as town, I'm fine with that. If they suddenly change to scum, only then do I feel I deserve to know his entire thought process. As a candidate for party leader, I can see why people would want his reads to be as transparent as possible, but I believe that winning the events is more important and I don't consider his 'not trying' to be scummy.
Just pointing out that your reasoning is complete shite.
If Sandro is scum, he doesn't magically lose the ability to see who is appearing townie in the thread. Add to that that he already KNOWS who is town and it becomes even easier for Sandro to pick a team with three townie noobs in it. We then get to setup speculation about whether that would make the event succeed, but on the face of it I still think 1 scum is enough to sabotage a 4-player mission.
So Sandro picking a townie team is indicative only and alone of his ability to pick a townie team, which was never in doubt in the first place.
The above post is why I have such a strong town read on Acro, he said not only what I wanted to say in response to this point, he said it clearer and with more gumption than I would have.
On November 23 2012 06:55 Hapahauli wrote: @ Promethelax
On November 23 2012 05:40 Promethelax wrote: Hapa, you will not get my vote today. You come to late to change this election and I don't like that you push us away from Sand/Syllo but don't mention Kita except as a 'joke'
It is a joke. Give me a reason to take him seriously and I will do so.
Also, you need to hash out your read on me because I have no idea WTF you're thinking. You mentioned I'm "easy to read," that you are comfortable reading me and whatnot, but your rationale thinking I'm "suspicious" or whatever is absurd. For example, you mentioned that I'm not the "confrontational town hapa" when in fact I'm also super-confrontational as scum.
Then I see things like this, where you don't mention a damn thing about the important parts of my candidacy (namely my proposed partY) and go off on how you just don't like my attitude on Kita or some crap like that.
You should have taken him seriously because he was making a push that didn't involve Sandroba. He was, for a while, the only opposition candidate and an unopposed mayoral election either means we have confirmed town or someone in his proposed party was scum.
My read on Hapa: not assertive enough to meet either of his metas, there were some early posts which rang false to me and I do not trust him. Too early for me to say scum but not to early for me to have you far from my green list.
Your party didn't matter to me, you did.
On November 23 2012 07:53 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: Syllogism ##Vote: Hopeless1der
Things and such.
I know that this got mentioned before but I need to bring it up again. Hopeless: explain.
On November 23 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: What apologetic bullshit? What are you talking about?
It's certainly possible sandroba could be mafia, but I doubt syllogism is. But why does one of them 'have to be'?
Also I take a somewhat perverse pleasure that people like you and Kei don't know how to read me accurately still. Although it'd be easier if you simply found me town, of course.
the "oh maybe I'm reading you wrong because you are trying to post differently" you don't have confidence in your read there which is something I expect from you.
one of them has to be mafia because if neither of them was the mafia play d1 was useless and without goal. I've said this before but assuming that mafia wanted to be in the party one of Syllo/Sand is 100% mafia. The only way this is not true is if mafia did not want to be in d1 party.
Sorry bro, I read you as scum right now; we'll see if I'm still bad or if maybe I can read you now.
Mafia have been ditched in elections before today. If both Sandro and Syllo are town, then mafia never stood a chance in this election in any case. Biding their time and waiting till after they can kill off some of the more influential town players seems like a decent move in that case. Or maybe they have some fiendish ability they can use to sabotage a mission regardless of whether there's a scum in it. It'd be super powerful, but god knows what's in this game.
I believe a mafia player would have created a campaign. They could not have known that Sand and Syllo would own the fuck out of this election. Unless they did not want to be in the party which, as you state there could be reasons for. However it is easier for me, and makes more sense according to Occam, that scum wanted to be in the party.
Anyways, its mah birthday and I'm going out to dinner with my folks and my young lady. I'll be back eventually. I hope the quest goes well, gl guys.
Happy birthday and have fun!
But how are you so sure no scum ran today (or if they did have to be in Sandro/Syllo pair)? Kita, GK, Hapa and Toad all took a stab at it. Any of them could be scum. Why you fixing on the syllo/sandro situation? Because they are the only two who gained momentum? Plenty of reasons why scum is afraid to start a wagon (meaning that if nobody else does, it fails). Particularly because if the party fails they suddenly have their whole scumteam on a scummy wagon. Same as any mislynch really. Scum tends not to be the first to vote.
Naw, I don't think starting a wagon of a scum (two man operation) would look too scummy. First voter is a pretty safe place to be. Decisiveness etc. As scum I love building false cases and getting my vote down early, makes me look townier and I think that scum could risk voting their buddy in this situation. I am indeed fixed on those that gained momentum. I tried to vote you but even you didn't vote you so yeh, momentum seems to matter. as to their 'whole scum team on a scummy wagon' I think 2-3 dudes could have started a pretty good wagon as long as one came in with good points which wasn't hard to do since they could bring three townies and still probably sabotage the mission .
On November 23 2012 06:15 Clarity_nl wrote: Prome, if marv is scum, and one of the syllo/sand is scum, does that mean syllo is scum? Because the way you're saying it, why would marv be backing syllo if sand is scum?
Because the shitstorm is flying I want to point out this insightful comment by Clarity. I want this to be noticed by Prom when he gets back.
I already replied to this. but it boils down to two points: 1) Marv was an early voted on Syllo, he could have been distancing himself and 2) Early game it seemed to me that Sand and Syllo would each include the other one in their party. 1 scum in, quest=fail.
On November 24 2012 04:20 Dienosore wrote: IDK if I'm town, but I win with town.
As for GK, he's popped up a couple times on my map, but the squigglies protruding and intruding his bubble are too varied for any reliable read right now. I havn't specifically examined him yet, so idk. My earlier leanings was scum, mostly because he attacked my credibility a few times for no real reason. Also, his demeanor was setting off some flags, but as many of you kindly have pointed out english isnt his first language.
ummm...haven't gotten past this post but GK speaks the English purty darn well, it is Djo who was mentioned as a non anglophone. y u no read thread? Or you may still be high from your blunt in which case, I'm right there with you.
Also: the "you win with town" thing means that you are town.
On November 24 2012 03:28 TheChronicler wrote: Acro stop being bad. Go through my filter and you'll see me say my plan must be bad much earlier. You're pointing to a contradiction that doesn't exist. Sigh... What a useless diversion. Zbo scum?
The "probably bad" was your first (and only, up until just now) mention of the plan being bad. It is here:
On November 21 2012 12:47 marvellosity wrote: TheChronicler, take a moment, sip a glass of wine, and ponder why every single person who has read your idea has thought it terrible.
It's either because you're a genius, transcended on a plane above any of us mere mortals, or your idea is bad.
Alright, it's probably just bad. I just wanted to spread it out b/c I don't want to elect a scum person and have them controlling everything.
From this I don't infer that you are actually convinced your plan is bad. You leave space open for it to go any way. I did feel convinced you were disabused of any thoughts about your plan when you responded to me, though:
On November 22 2012 03:14 Dienosore wrote: I italicized 'first' because I wanted to draw attention to the fact that party leaders will be changing quite often and I feel as if people are thinking this is going to be a permanent position.
As for the majority elected team, I think it's more logical to do things this way, at least for the first cycle while we are completely in the dark. I don't view polling the masses as dodging responsibility, but rather taking away the mafias chance to have an iron grip on the initial proceedings (assuming scum is elected and starts a dictatorship). By putting the vote out into the open, we also have another opportunity to see where loyalties lie.
I will correct you on this: 1. Polls are a terrible idea in mafia (I have tried to use them myself in my younger more nubby days and they are a terrible idea)
2. Expecting that mafia cannot manipulate a vote (especially an anonymous vote as in the poll system) is exceedingly naive.
3. You are dodging responsibility, because one of the reasons for voting for a leader is so he can be held accountable for his team. If the party fails, then everybody in that party comes under serious suspicion, but the leader most of all: he put a party together with at least one scumster (and probably more, or third parties, or something). Given that town reads are generally easier than scumreads, especially so early in the game, that means the leader either has really bad judgement, someone really fooled the crap out of him, or he is scum. By avoiding this dilemma and putting it up to majority vote, you cannot be held accountable in this manner, thus dodging this use of the party system, which, in the long run may very well be its most powerful use.
I agree with your first two points, but I disagree with the third. Simply because he wants more people involved in the decision doesn't mean he doesn't want the responsibility. I'm assuming he's voicing the idea for whoever the leader ends up as. It's very similar to my idea.
You didn't try to play it up as if the plan was good, or your idea should be brought back to the table. You simply gave your reasoning behind it.
However, the problem is now. Your reasoning for voting for Syllo doesn't feel right at all. Lets look for any indication you think syllo is town:
On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote: I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight.
On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility.
And least of all here. This reinforces my suspicion that you are scum and didn't need to "think" Syllo was town, because you knew Syllo was town. If someone at any point had asked me (and I believe they did) why I was voting for Syllo, my answer is: I believed Syllo to be town and trust his judgement to pick townie party members. You skip over the "I think Syllo is town" part in every one of your explanations for your vote and justify it with contrived excuses that give post-hoc rationalizations for a sheep vote.
Ergo: you're scum
This is a pretty convincing case and honestly, reading it and looking at TC's filter I'd say this is my answer Djo, I'd like to see TC swing if Sandro won't. I'd love the smurf to claim, I have a theory on who he is and why he won't reveal that which makes me hesitant to lynch him but if he refuses to claim I will assume I'm wrong and just play as if he is any other player.
On November 24 2012 05:48 Keirathi wrote: Mmm, busy day today. Some comments:
TheChronicler
The points against him are really strong (particularly the "giving town reads is anti-town" opinion, when his day 1 plan relied exactly on that). Waiting on him to explain more, but I'm liking him for the vote today right now.
sandroba
Nothing in his filter jumps out to me as anti-town mindset. Really, the only point against him is that he's been lurky, when I observed Looney and he was pretty lurky there too as town. Not enough for me to vote him right now.
Promethelax
He's someone else I think we should be talking about today as a lynch candidate.
On November 21 2012 10:54 Promethelax wrote: *snip*
So, it seems to me that we need to vote for the towniest player possible for the challenge. I think anyone who wants to be elected as party leader should announce who they will pick to work with them so that they have something which they have to stand by. I don't want mafia to be able to choose an all mafia team (or 3rd party or whatever the hell else GreY put in this game). or, if they do I'd like them to have to at least put their stances in the thread on which players seem most townie and most scummy.
On November 21 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: I see Acro has sniped me in terms of the idea of any potential leader posting their core group. Has anyone played in a similar set-up before? Or does anyone have the link to Resistance? I haven't read it.
Based on the fact that Acro had the same though as me and from our last game together I would currently, put him in my team, along with Acro I would add Marv (come on, wouldn't you?) and as third player I would chose Hapa. Hapa is a guy who over many games I have come to like and respect though I once hated him. He is a great town player and a kinda crappy scum player, seems like the right guy to have along for the ride.
TL:DR My team: Acro, Marv, Hapa
I'm curious if putting one player who seems like a liability (one of the guys known for trolling or one of the smurfs) onto the team so that we can get a read on them from their actions makes sense? It seems like we won't have lynches but knowing who scum is/is not will help town players direct any and all actions which they have and i assume making sure that non-town players not being on the quest team will be a good thing for us as the OP specifies that they can make it more difficult to achieve our objectives.
So, he's already thinking about voting the towniest person into the group as a leader, because he didn't want an all scum party. He even goes so far as to suggest putting a "liability" into the group to test if they are townie or not. But, he doesn't pick people for his group because they are TOWN. He just picks them because he respects them as good players. They are two very different lines of thinking within just those two posts.
On November 21 2012 12:08 Promethelax wrote: Kier: would you really vote for Marv? Do you think you have the ability to meta read him well enough to know that he is town? I don't think I could and, unless someone can convince me that he is town or the person he is running against is super scummy I will NOT vote Marv.
On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote: Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers.
But, marv was one of his proposed team, and, he was proposing to put a 'liability' player into the group to test if they were scum. However, those earlier thoughts don't line up with his thinking that a single scum could cause the event to fail.
Now, I'll grant him a little benefit of the doubt here. His first two posts were still during the period of the game when people were guessing that the events were more of a "challenge" rather than a "plug townies in and you win" thing, so the change of opinions could make some sense. But he was still worried about having a part without scum in it earlier, but his picks didn't show that at all.
And now, what really got me thinking about Prom more:
On November 22 2012 02:22 Promethelax wrote: You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks.
After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.
## Vote: Acro
Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination.
I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon.
On November 22 2012 02:22 Promethelax wrote: You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks.
After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.
## Vote: Acro
Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination.
I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon.
That's a clear misrepresentation of what happened. Many people were putting their names out there to be party leader and I came about with a different aproach and it got support based on the ideas in it. Mafia hardly ever goes against the consensus and stick their neck out there to oppose in that way. That's a shitty, if not mafia oriented, reason for opposing me. You even include syllo in it randomly and don't comment on why he isn't the choice.
I'm catching up, but writing as I read.
I have never played with either of you before, I have trouble reading you and while it is true that you gained much support on a good idea. One which you got from reading the OP more acuretly than anyone else (we all thought that we needed strong players on the team, you realized that all we needed was townie players) you are a smart guy and, from what I have read of you, I would bet that you would have made this same play as town or scum. The fact that there was not an obvious counter wagon after you makes me lean scummy on you just as an unopposed lynch on day 1 would give me a townie read on the player who was up for lynch.
I did not address Syllo because he did not seem to be a credible candidate to me at that point. I'm not going to vote Acro as he did not try to generate momentum from my vote on him and I will be voting somewhere else instead.
On November 21 2012 13:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 21 2012 12:57 Promethelax wrote:
On November 21 2012 12:53 Clarity_nl wrote: Sharing is caring?
Sharing is great when votes are made, It is early in the day and allowing everyone to continue to play without knowledge of each others town reads is probably for the best. No need for scum to get a chance to plant seeds of doubt on our town reads or to keep working on rowing themselves as townies if we have green reads on them right now.
You'll know my town read when I am confidant enough in it to place a vote. I'd like to learn Acro's at the same time.
Well that's an easy way to make sure your town reads don't look so suspicious, isn't it?
nah brah, it is how I play. I don't vote for a scum read until I think they are scum even if the thread as a whole disagrees (look at my d1 town vibes on muso in ACME).
I was about to support Kush as a townie. He talked to me pre game about his fear of the size of this game and the themey-ness of this game. He was truly concerned and did want a just Vanilla game. I would expect more posts from scum kush because he would want to match his meta.
My vote will be on Kita, the candidate I trust. The reasons I trust him 1) I am in his party and know that I am town. That leaves only three others in the party and I have a town read on all three. 2) I am very unhappy with how into Syllo/Sand this thread is. The lack of a real campaign away from theirs worries the shit out of me. Mafia would want to be leader or in the party and the only way that is confirmed is if one of them is mafia. Ergo ## vote: kitaman
I'm keeping up with the thread but doing my best to spam less as I have less to say. Trying to keep my posting short and sweet, this thread is hard enough to read without my help.
I'll be around for a bit. Any questions: shoot.
In the first post, he addresses Syllo as a serious candidate, then in the second he says "I didn't address syllo because he wasn't a serious candidate at that point". 1) I do think he was a serious candidate and 2) Prom did actually address syllo. Which makes me wonder why the hell he even said that.
His whole argument about there not being a counterwagon to syllo/sand only makes sense if BOTH of them are scum. If one of them is scum, then the other IS the counterwagon.
But what really bugs me is how he jumps off of the Acro vote because "Acro didn't try to gain any momentum with my vote" and onto kita, SOMEONE HE HAD NEVER EVEN MENTIONED. First off, that argument for jumping off of Acro doesn't make any sense. Does not trying to gain momentum make Acro scum? Certainly not. Scum would 100% want to garner support to get elected as party member if he already had some modicum of support behind him. Of course, he still has a town read on Acro because Acro is in kita's proposed party.
But, it really feels like he's just looking for justification to hop off of Acro and onto the candidate who has him as a party member (and I actually find kita's justification for putting him in the party pretty weak anyways. I'm not positive if that makes me think kita is scum yet, though).
Now, like I said earlier, I can see a townie doing that if at least one of the following two condition are met: 1) he, knowing he is town, believes that all 4 people of the proposed party are, in fact, town (which was what he said) 2) has a scum read on all the other available candidates.
But there are a TON of benefits for a scum to do this. Especially a scum who ostensibly believes that 1 scum could cause a mission to fail.
Bah, I'm kind of rambling a bit. TL;DR - Ran smear campaign on every other potential candidate in an effort to get the one candidate that had him in the party elected.
Kier: you have some good points but you surround them with a lot of fluff. I have not been playing up to my usual standards and probably should be pushed here but adding the early d1 crap where my knowledge of the set up was changing by the minute is silly.
Acro not voting himself was a reason to unvote him because clearly he didn't feel confidant to be leader. He is still on of my srongest town reads but town read =/= leader read. As to my reasoning to vote Kita instead of Syllo (the only guys with votes on them at that time) Kita's party included me (I looked at my role pm, I know I'm town) and Acro, my town read. As well as Deino a guy I think all of us have a town read on.
On November 21 2012 11:12 marvellosity wrote: Probably some mix of town reads and probable utility (if someone is clever, derp) is the right way of choosing teams.
Like if someone is clearly town but an idiot then I wouldn't invite them into my hypothetical party.
I disagree, I think someone being clearly town should take priority over everything else, even if they aren't the most reliable of players.
which is as townie as it gets, now he (Kita) was the least townie of the bunch but he was still a light green while the three party members were dark green. That was way better than any of the other options in my eyes.
You even say at the end of your case that I could be town or scum...that isn't the scumhunter I used to know. Where did your common sense go? You state two things which would have to be true for a town me to do what I did and hey look both of those things are true and present in my filter. (not the town read on Kita but eh, I only developed it when I looked at him again after his platform was proposed). I still thought and think that based on how d1 played out up til that point that either Syllo or sand was scum, now of course I think it is Sand and think that Syllo is town though.
On November 24 2012 06:07 Keirathi wrote: Why no one comment on Prom
I am still pretty concerned at Prome's alignment and your post makes sense.
Right now I'm trying to get a read on kita out of syllo though ;p
I'm hurt that you think that makes sense. Being conerned about my alignment=fair, liking that case=fucking stupid
On November 24 2012 10:39 Dienosore wrote: Also, who is this VE guy, and why do you all immediately start calling him by a nickname? Should I be concerned?
Be afraid, be very afraid.
VE: you still owe us some pictures from LC, I won't love you until I see them.
Hapa made a case on me but it is long and I'll just link to ithere I guess I didn't explain well in the early game why I thought that one of Sand/Syllo had to be scum butI think I have since that point. If you want to hear it again here goes + Show Spoiler +
there were two gyus who both seemed content to put each other in their parties, there was no strong opposition to these two guys except each other. If both of these players were town mafia would have tried to push a candidate as I believe 100% that mafia wanted to be in the party. ergo one of Sand/Syllo was scum. I was more comfortable with Syllo because he did not explicitly state that he would take Sand, and his play in general gave me more of a townie vibe. If I'd had my way Acro would have been elected but sine things worked out I have to admit that I was wrong to oppose Syllo
Consolidation that I asked for was shut down, consolidation was on the Obama/Romney ticket and no one else. The one party system wasn't working for me.
Z-bo: you are worried that I am playful towards Marv even though I have a scum read on him. Sorry. I like Marv, he is a good guy. I like to tease him and am more comfortable with him as a person than I am many of the other players in this game. I also am aware that my reads are not always right and interacting with players helps me in that respect.
On November 23 2012 21:51 sandroba wrote: Oh my it seems I'm the only person in the game that doesn't get to have a real life every so often. I spent the night at a girl's house ytd and only got home now. I thought I would give the thread a quick read before heading to bed (yes my sleep schedule is severely fucked up) and I see that suddenly I became the main wagon. Nice. Weekend is ahead and it will be extremelly busy and now I have to fight syllo induced mislynch just to prob face the same problem again the next day. Thx. I'll be here briefily if anyone want to interact, but I'm heading to bed. I took 125 dmg and got roleblocked.
I know who he was pointing at when he got blocked, okay?
On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth
@Prom
Sandro claimed to be roleblocked by the way...
On November 23 2012 21:51 sandroba wrote: Oh my it seems I'm the only person in the game that doesn't get to have a real life every so often. I spent the night at a girl's house ytd and only got home now. I thought I would give the thread a quick read before heading to bed (yes my sleep schedule is severely fucked up) and I see that suddenly I became the main wagon. Nice. Weekend is ahead and it will be extremelly busy and now I have to fight syllo induced mislynch just to prob face the same problem again the next day. Thx. I'll be here briefily if anyone want to interact, but I'm heading to bed. I took 125 dmg and got roleblocked.
I know who he was pointing at when he got blocked, okay?
Did you also know that he was blocked ? Like "sandro was blocked but his action was pointing at syllo" ? I would understand if you don't want to elaborate on this subject but I'm curious and I would like you to tell us more. It's up to you
I'll explain more if it becomes relevant. At the moment the knowledge which I will share with scum is the part that will actually help town. the rest of my role I'm keeping to myself for now.
On November 24 2012 17:46 syllogism wrote: That doesn't read like a town sandro post. It misconstrues parts of the case and the tone is off. It doesn't provide us anything useful. My vote isn't moving.
what quote are you talking about? Maybe I'm retarded but I don't see it.
On November 24 2012 17:46 syllogism wrote: That doesn't read like a town sandro post. It misconstrues parts of the case and the tone is off. It doesn't provide us anything useful. My vote isn't moving.
what quote are you talking about? Maybe I'm retarded but I don't see it.
Would you do me the great kindness of going through that post piecemeal and explaining why each piece gives you a scum read. I agree with your read but want to know how you think.
On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth
This is a really important post.
In any game I would host or any game that I can recall playing, a player who is roleblocked does not return any results to tracking abilities. As sandroba insists he targeted syllo, but was roleblocked, either one of these two players is lying or prom really needs to clarify his role.
On November 25 2012 03:54 marvellosity wrote: Although, kita, I will agree with you on this - Prome's absence is completely disgraceful given his earlier revelation and the fact that sandroba is the main wagon. That's pretty much completely unacceptable, whatever real life excuses he'll give us.
okay, it seems that my role is pretty contentious for Kita and Kier (and probably everyone else who has a name that stars with K) the ability I used last night Roleblocks all players who target a single player with their actions. I took a gamble and assumed that I was the only one with a roleblocking ability because only two people claimed RB'd and I assumed that they both targeted Syllo. I did not want to reveal why I knew that those players targeted Syllo or the correlation with the roleblocks (this is why I haven't yet confronted marv about his targeting Syllo but now that the cat is out of the bag: Marv, what were you trying to do to the Great Leader?). I decided to gamble that i was right and that Sand had targeted Syllo (50% chance at least just from there being only two RB claims) and force him to claim what he had done. My bread crumb should be obvious to anyone looking but here it is:
On November 23 2012 05:40 Promethelax wrote: Hapa, you will not get my vote today. You come to late to change this election and I don't like that you push us away from Sand/Syllo but don't mention Kita except as a 'joke' I agree with you that we should not be voting Sand based on his unopposed candidacy and I didn't want to vote Syllo since he seemed intent on bringing Sand with him on the mission. I still prefer Syllo over Sand and will vote him if things get tight, as it is though I am more comfortable with Kita than either of them, his town reads are still strong to me even though he is not as townine in my mind as any of the three he chose to take with him.
In my catching up I saw Kita post something asking why I was voting him if I didn't think he was the best leader. I thought I had made this clear, he was the best leader with a chance of success. If that wasn't clear my apologies, my intention was to communicate that Kita was the least of the evils which were available to me. I am sending in my night action(s) now. I will be in the thread for another hour.
Syllo: I believe that it is now time for you to announce the members of your team and the reasons for their inclusion. You probably will win this election and I would like to hear your reasons for their inclusion in your team, you may not be able to give us those reads next day since you may be killed by scum/3party. I don't want to block up the thread with a lot of fluf but I think that your reasons would be a worthwhile inclusion that might protect townies from other townies at a later date.
this is why I said that I was sending in my night actions there, to be clear that this is where I specified them. I'm saying that I am using my power to protect Syllo and that it will [role]block people who target him. It isn't a brilliant crumb but I think the awkward wording speaks for itself, this is a crumb. I have other powers but this is the one you need to know about. If I place this on a plyer and they are not targeted for a certain number of cycles than it will provide a certain amount of protection against damage from any in game source.
That being said I would like to return to game things:
On November 25 2012 02:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Can someone other than marv confirm that Drazerk would be a coinflip at the point?
I have not played with him but the games I have read of his would suggest that this is totally true. Marv is right here.
On November 25 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote: Hmmm I see everyone ignored the stuff I posted on Promethelax... anyone care to comment?
Hapa: you ignored everything I said in response. I think you know better that my actions follow the way I think about the game which, as should be obvious, is not always the dominant way of thinking. Since you haven't responded to me I don't have more to add except that you are a top scum read for me now. I've never seen you, as town, push that someone is scum but also refuse to engage with them. You are more hands on. I expect this disengaged sort of attack from Zbo but not from you.
hah, gotcha Sand. In post game I'm going to revel in getting that one right. Just in case anyone wasn't sure.
On November 25 2012 09:37 marvellosity wrote: incidentally this is why I was fairly believing of kita earlier, because he claimed his shot on Drazerk only did half damage.
Obviously these actions were nothing to do with me, but the 50% resonated with my role.
interesting. So I am the only RBing role in the game. Or the only one activated n1. I assume some people have multiple abilities and not all would necessarily use the rb, where is the glory in that?
Marv, if you are a 600 character why didn't you try harder to get in the team d1? Didn't you feel that since your ability got a bonus your hidden modifier would too?
On November 25 2012 09:40 kitaman27 wrote: ^_^
I took 50 damage last night. I picked sandroba from my guessing game and avoided the damage. I'm also part of a fun new game, which I won't reveal yet -_-
Considering Sandroba never returned, I think we should be looking for players that show signs of frustration towards his absence.
On November 25 2012 09:37 marvellosity wrote: incidentally this is why I was fairly believing of kita earlier, because he claimed his shot on Drazerk only did half damage.
Obviously these actions were nothing to do with me, but the 50% resonated with my role.
interesting. So I am the only RBing role in the game. Or the only one activated n1. I assume some people have multiple abilities and not all would necessarily use the rb, where is the glory in that?
Marv, if you are a 600 character why didn't you try harder to get in the team d1? Didn't you feel that since your ability got a bonus your hidden modifier would too?
On November 25 2012 09:40 kitaman27 wrote: ^_^
I took 50 damage last night. I picked sandroba from my guessing game and avoided the damage. I'm also part of a fun new game, which I won't reveal yet -_-
Considering Sandroba never returned, I think we should be looking for players that show signs of frustration towards his absence.
On November 25 2012 09:36 marvellosity wrote:
On November 25 2012 09:34 Promethelax wrote: hey Marv, baby, why did you target Syllo n1?
On November 24 2012 17:18 Promethelax wrote: -snip- Hapa made a case on me but it is long and I'll just link to ithere I guess I didn't explain well in the early game why I thought that one of Sand/Syllo had to be scum butI think I have since that point. If you want to hear it again here goes + Show Spoiler +
there were two gyus who both seemed content to put each other in their parties, there was no strong opposition to these two guys except each other. If both of these players were town mafia would have tried to push a candidate as I believe 100% that mafia wanted to be in the party. ergo one of Sand/Syllo was scum. I was more comfortable with Syllo because he did not explicitly state that he would take Sand, and his play in general gave me more of a townie vibe. If I'd had my way Acro would have been elected but sine things worked out I have to admit that I was wrong to oppose Syllo
Consolidation that I asked for was shut down, consolidation was on the Obama/Romney ticket and no one else. The one party system wasn't working for me. -snip-
in case it wasn't clear (I was pretty high so maybe it wasn't) I didn't feel that Sand and Syllo presented differing platforms both had the other on the ticket, I thought, hence why I referred to them as Obama/Romney. The idea being that voting for one was the same as voting for the other.
On November 23 2012 14:05 syllogism wrote: I took 50 damage.
I'm going back to bed, but very briefly him suggesting that his modifier is likely low was something that probably makes people less likely pick him. He also pointed out the fact that if parties are announced in public, mafia has easier time choosing who to support and that was a pretty towny observation and something that occurred to me as well. In addition he wasn't afraid of asking me and sandro whether we thought he was suspicious.
@Prom Syllo took damage, but you managed to catch sand with a roleblock. He freely admits it, but later it seems you weren't sure. Were you bluffing him out when you said you knew he targeted syllo?
Either way, if you're telling the truth it means that syllo was hit by a multi-target ability or he was hit by recoil from his own abilities, because you would have protected him form anything else.
If someone is able to account for the 50 damage on Syllo in such a way that it proves Prom is lying about his roleblock ability, Prom is not town. I don't think that is the case, I just want to make that apparent to anyone that knows more than I do. Unless someone chimes in, I currently have a town read on Prom for trying to protect the successful party leader.
Yeah I was bluffing but I thought it was a safe bet. There were only two roleblocks and it seemed inconceivable that no one targeted the leader of the town party besides me. So I took a gamble, i knew my credibility was pretty low but I knew my role could make or break this lynch (theoretically) so I challenged Sand on it.
I was pretty shocked about the damage which Syllo claimed (I thought I would block it all and that mafia would have individual abilities and NOT factional kp but this is false, mafia has kp!) and I assumed that it was Mafia KP (another reason which I didn't state earlier that i thought he was Town in the 'one of Sand/Syllo is scum' argument). I looked at my pm again in writing this to confirm my abilities, it only roleblocks players so I imagine that factional kp is not blocked.
On November 24 2012 17:18 Promethelax wrote: -snip- Hapa made a case on me but it is long and I'll just link to ithere I guess I didn't explain well in the early game why I thought that one of Sand/Syllo had to be scum butI think I have since that point. If you want to hear it again here goes + Show Spoiler +
there were two gyus who both seemed content to put each other in their parties, there was no strong opposition to these two guys except each other. If both of these players were town mafia would have tried to push a candidate as I believe 100% that mafia wanted to be in the party. ergo one of Sand/Syllo was scum. I was more comfortable with Syllo because he did not explicitly state that he would take Sand, and his play in general gave me more of a townie vibe. If I'd had my way Acro would have been elected but sine things worked out I have to admit that I was wrong to oppose Syllo
Consolidation that I asked for was shut down, consolidation was on the Obama/Romney ticket and no one else. The one party system wasn't working for me. -snip-
in case it wasn't clear (I was pretty high so maybe it wasn't) I didn't feel that Sand and Syllo presented differing platforms both had the other on the ticket, I thought, hence why I referred to them as Obama/Romney. The idea being that voting for one was the same as voting for the other.
That's not a "response" - that's you replying to a very select portion of my suspicions and burying it in a long post (in a spoiler, rofl) where noone can see it.
There are several things I want to hear about: 1) Why were you so at peace with the idea of voting Syllo, when you were convinced that one of Sandrob/Syllo was scum AND you thought Syllo would include Sandrob in his party? 2) Why were you trying to push "consolidation" early in the thread, then attacked Sandrob/Syllo for the sake of opposition? 3) Why didn't you treat Syllo as a "credible candidate"? (Also, funny that you accused me of not taking kita seriously in one of your previous posts as scummy).
1) I found sand the scummier of the two. He was also the only one who exclusively said he'd take the other, meaning Syllo was the lesser of two evils. 2) I thought a smaller pool to pick from would force scum to place a vote which would matter, instead of a throw away vote like the one Thrawn posted d1 in Mario for example. A three or four candidate system would have meant that everyone needed to express opinions. Sand and Syllo (when they were including each other) were one place to consolidate onto instead of four. I didn't want the leader chosen early d1 I wanted us to narrow our scopes after ~1/2 of the day had gone by so that no votes could be wasted on candidates without a chance. 3) because he and Sand were pretty interchangeable in my head and Sand had more votes.
On November 23 2012 14:05 syllogism wrote: I took 50 damage.
I'm going back to bed, but very briefly him suggesting that his modifier is likely low was something that probably makes people less likely pick him. He also pointed out the fact that if parties are announced in public, mafia has easier time choosing who to support and that was a pretty towny observation and something that occurred to me as well. In addition he wasn't afraid of asking me and sandro whether we thought he was suspicious.
@Prom Syllo took damage, but you managed to catch sand with a roleblock. He freely admits it, but later it seems you weren't sure. Were you bluffing him out when you said you knew he targeted syllo?
Either way, if you're telling the truth it means that syllo was hit by a multi-target ability or he was hit by recoil from his own abilities, because you would have protected him form anything else.
If someone is able to account for the 50 damage on Syllo in such a way that it proves Prom is lying about his roleblock ability, Prom is not town. I don't think that is the case, I just want to make that apparent to anyone that knows more than I do. Unless someone chimes in, I currently have a town read on Prom for trying to protect the successful party leader.
Yeah I was bluffing but I thought it was a safe bet. There were only two roleblocks and it seemed inconceivable that no one targeted the leader of the town party besides me. So I took a gamble, i knew my credibility was pretty low but I knew my role could make or break this lynch (theoretically) so I challenged Sand on it.
I was pretty shocked about the damage which Syllo claimed (I thought I would block it all and that mafia would have individual abilities and NOT factional kp but this is false, mafia has kp!) and I assumed that it was Mafia KP (another reason which I didn't state earlier that i thought he was Town in the 'one of Sand/Syllo is scum' argument). I looked at my pm again in writing this to confirm my abilities, it only roleblocks players so I imagine that factional kp is not blocked.
What is so hard to understand? Syllo got BUSSED. All the abilities that targeted him, targeted someone else instead and everything that targeted that someone else targeted Syllo.
Scum shoots flying-under-the-radar-town. Sandro busses all damage from that townie onto Syllo and all the protection (just Marv) on Syllo onto the flying-under-the-radar-town.
totally possible. But I think that my ability resolved first. Since it blocked Sand and Marv both of whom targeted Syllo one of whom was bussing him (probably) actually now that I say that I'm not totally convinced he used the bus ability. Why should i belive that he used the ability name he claimed to have used?
Oats: I'd take another d1 player with you instead of clarity. No need to bring along someone in that spot whom we aren't sure of. Now I'd leave Marv behind too personally but if you bring him I'd like to be damn sure that everyone else with you is town because, though Marv is playing more Marv-like now, his day one play still rattles me.
On November 25 2012 10:26 Oatsmaster wrote: I would take Acro, Marv, Clarity.
I dont think that scum Acro would soft defend Sandro because there is no upside for scum Marv is looking more and more townie at the moment. Clarity also started actually doing 'work' after I made my 'case' on him.
I don't want to come. Swap me out for Dieno or Syllo... given the new information, I also prefer Chronicler over Clarity. I can see no reason for scum to bus Toad right now.
and you really didn't want to be party leader d1. Explain.
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, just deleted a huge post because I am an idiot.
Summery:
Vote Dieno over oats, party leader can't be party leader two times in a row so save the guy with more health for later.
In response to Syllo: My role as I claimed it was true though I only mentioned one of my abilities. I did not use that ability in cycle two and therefore will not be claiming my action(s) from that cycle since knowing them will not help town but could aid scum in knowing what kind of threat I pose. I also think that the gift you got is quest related due to my ability. Same as I think the damage you took was mafia KP.
Zbo and Hapa: you both said you would respond to my points but didn't.
Toad: I doubt you are town but if you are think about the fact that I will be using my claimed ability this cycle to protect a strong townie so you need to direct your heal somewhere that I don't direct my ability.
Djo: your campaign is bad. Not a chance you'd get my vote.
On November 25 2012 20:01 syllogism wrote: Prom: So you are saying you have a roleblock+track ability and an ability that roleblocks everyone who visits the person you target, is this correct?
nope, the track thing was something I never claimed. I said I 'knew which way Sand was pointing when he was Rb'd' which is true because by targeting you I RB'd those who targeted you. I used that part of my ability as a 'watcher' like ability but it wasn't fool proof, I was bluffing Sand when I said that I 'knew' he targeted you. I guessed it based on my role and my reads.
I have an ability which is planted on a single player which, if activated RBs everyone who visits that players. If it is not activated it will after [redacted number of cycle(s)] become a shield to block [ redacted number] of HP damage to the targeted player.
On November 25 2012 20:01 syllogism wrote: Prom: So you are saying you have a roleblock+track ability and an ability that roleblocks everyone who visits the person you target, is this correct?
nope, the track thing was something I never claimed. I said I 'knew which way Sand was pointing when he was Rb'd' which is true because by targeting you I RB'd those who targeted you. I used that part of my ability as a 'watcher' like ability but it wasn't fool proof, I was bluffing Sand when I said that I 'knew' he targeted you. I guessed it based on my role and my reads.
I have an ability which is planted on a single player which, if activated RBs everyone who visits that players. If it is not activated it will after [redacted number of cycle(s)] become a shield to block [ redacted number] of HP damage to the targeted player.
@Prom
So how do you explain that syllo took some damage during the first cycle ?
On November 25 2012 20:20 syllogism wrote: Yeah sure.
I'm fairly certain that Prom is mafia and that his first claimed ability is real. The one he is claiming now is completely ridiculous as a town ability. It is so strong that even if it was a real ability, I don't see a town aligned player claiming it like that. Sandroba was headed for a lynch and we didn't need additional information to secure the lynch. Both of his abilities could be real, but the mass roleblock ability is extremely unlikely to be an ability of a town aligned role.
I think bussing is the strongest ability Sandro had and it is very likely that it is the one he used (although frame bus is a bit ambigious). Prom targeted marv n1 with his rb+track or whatever ability. Right now I don't quite understand why he decided to change his claim, but I guess one possibility is to make marv look slightly suspicious/force him to claim and perhaps he thinks he gets more town cred like this.
I haven't changed my claim. Go read my filter. Hell I'll do it for you.
On November 24 2012 17:31 Promethelax wrote: snippy-
I know who he was pointing at when he got blocked, okay?
On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth
This is a really important post.
In any game I would host or any game that I can recall playing, a player who is roleblocked does not return any results to tracking abilities. As sandroba insists he targeted syllo, but was roleblocked, either one of these two players is lying or prom really needs to clarify his role.
On November 25 2012 03:54 marvellosity wrote: Although, kita, I will agree with you on this - Prome's absence is completely disgraceful given his earlier revelation and the fact that sandroba is the main wagon. That's pretty much completely unacceptable, whatever real life excuses he'll give us.
okay, it seems that my role is pretty contentious for Kita and Kier (and probably everyone else who has a name that stars with K) the ability I used last night Roleblocks all players who target a single player with their actions. I took a gamble and assumed that I was the only one with a roleblocking ability because only two people claimed RB'd and I assumed that they both targeted Syllo. I did not want to reveal why I knew that those players targeted Syllo or the correlation with the roleblocks (this is why I haven't yet confronted marv about his targeting Syllo but now that the cat is out of the bag: Marv, what were you trying to do to the Great Leader?). I decided to gamble that i was right and that Sand had targeted Syllo (50% chance at least just from there being only two RB claims) and force him to claim what he had done. My bread crumb should be obvious to anyone looking but here it is:
On November 23 2012 05:40 Promethelax wrote: Hapa, you will not get my vote today. You come to late to change this election and I don't like that you push us away from Sand/Syllo but don't mention Kita except as a 'joke' I agree with you that we should not be voting Sand based on his unopposed candidacy and I didn't want to vote Syllo since he seemed intent on bringing Sand with him on the mission. I still prefer Syllo over Sand and will vote him if things get tight, as it is though I am more comfortable with Kita than either of them, his town reads are still strong to me even though he is not as townine in my mind as any of the three he chose to take with him.
In my catching up I saw Kita post something asking why I was voting him if I didn't think he was the best leader. I thought I had made this clear, he was the best leader with a chance of success. If that wasn't clear my apologies, my intention was to communicate that Kita was the least of the evils which were available to me. I am sending in my night action(s) now. I will be in the thread for another hour.
Syllo: I believe that it is now time for you to announce the members of your team and the reasons for their inclusion. You probably will win this election and I would like to hear your reasons for their inclusion in your team, you may not be able to give us those reads next day since you may be killed by scum/3party. I don't want to block up the thread with a lot of fluf but I think that your reasons would be a worthwhile inclusion that might protect townies from other townies at a later date.
this is why I said that I was sending in my night actions there, to be clear that this is where I specified them. I'm saying that I am using my power to protect Syllo and that it will [role]block people who target him. It isn't a brilliant crumb but I think the awkward wording speaks for itself, this is a crumb. I have other powers but this is the one you need to know about. If I place this on a plyer and they are not targeted for a certain number of cycles than it will provide a certain amount of protection against damage from any in game source.
That being said I would like to return to game things:
Hapa: you ignored everything I said in response. I think you know better that my actions follow the way I think about the game which, as should be obvious, is not always the dominant way of thinking. Since you haven't responded to me I don't have more to add except that you are a top scum read for me now. I've never seen you, as town, push that someone is scum but also refuse to engage with them. You are more hands on. I expect this disengaged sort of attack from Zbo but not from you.
hah, gotcha Sand. In post game I'm going to revel in getting that one right. Just in case anyone wasn't sure.
On November 25 2012 09:37 marvellosity wrote: incidentally this is why I was fairly believing of kita earlier, because he claimed his shot on Drazerk only did half damage.
Obviously these actions were nothing to do with me, but the 50% resonated with my role.
interesting. So I am the only RBing role in the game. Or the only one activated n1. I assume some people have multiple abilities and not all would necessarily use the rb, where is the glory in that?
Marv, if you are a 600 character why didn't you try harder to get in the team d1? Didn't you feel that since your ability got a bonus your hidden modifier would too?
On November 25 2012 09:40 kitaman27 wrote: ^_^
I took 50 damage last night. I picked sandroba from my guessing game and avoided the damage. I'm also part of a fun new game, which I won't reveal yet -_-
Considering Sandroba never returned, I think we should be looking for players that show signs of frustration towards his absence.
On November 25 2012 09:36 marvellosity wrote:
On November 25 2012 09:34 Promethelax wrote: hey Marv, baby, why did you target Syllo n1?
On November 25 2012 20:20 syllogism wrote: Yeah sure.
I'm fairly certain that Prom is mafia and that his first claimed ability is real. The one he is claiming now is completely ridiculous as a town ability. It is so strong that even if it was a real ability, I don't see a town aligned player claiming it like that. Sandroba was headed for a lynch and we didn't need additional information to secure the lynch. Both of his abilities could be real, but the mass roleblock ability is extremely unlikely to be an ability of a town aligned role.
I think bussing is the strongest ability Sandro had and it is very likely that it is the one he used (although frame bus is a bit ambigious). Prom targeted marv n1 with his rb+track or whatever ability. Right now I don't quite understand why he decided to change his claim, but I guess one possibility is to make marv look slightly suspicious/force him to claim and perhaps he thinks he gets more town cred like this.
Isn't the ability he describes basically a jailkeeper ability?
I've thought about it that way but that isn't entirely true. Instead if rb'ing the guy I target I rb the people who target him.
no I didn't. Look at my Bread Crumb. I talk about blocking, protecting townies and targeting you. I knew before either one claimed in thread that Marv and Sand targeted you. The only way I could be scum is with both of them since they confirmed separately that I knew where both were pointing n1 and both were RB'd by me.
On November 25 2012 20:20 syllogism wrote: Yeah sure.
I'm fairly certain that Prom is mafia and that his first claimed ability is real. The one he is claiming now is completely ridiculous as a town ability. It is so strong that even if it was a real ability, I don't see a town aligned player claiming it like that. Sandroba was headed for a lynch and we didn't need additional information to secure the lynch. Both of his abilities could be real, but the mass roleblock ability is extremely unlikely to be an ability of a town aligned role.
I think bussing is the strongest ability Sandro had and it is very likely that it is the one he used (although frame bus is a bit ambigious). Prom targeted marv n1 with his rb+track or whatever ability. Right now I don't quite understand why he decided to change his claim, but I guess one possibility is to make marv look slightly suspicious/force him to claim and perhaps he thinks he gets more town cred like this.
Isn't the ability he describes basically a jailkeeper ability?
I've thought about it that way but that isn't entirely true. Instead if rb'ing the guy I target I rb the people who target him.
Right, so the only difference is that if somehow people are trying to use multiple abilities, and one of them is used on your target then it won't happen.
No,no no the difference is that my target can still use his ability. Assuming I have good reads it is a very protown ability.
On November 25 2012 20:33 syllogism wrote: No, you likely knew because you are mafia with sandroba and because you, in fact, have an ability that roleblocks and tracks at the same time.
That is fucking dumb. But okay. Think what you want to think. I expected better from you Syllo. I'll be using the abilities of mine which I chose to use on the people I choose to use them on. But believe me, one of you/Oats/Dieno will be getting my protection tonight.
I assume it is a countdown to Lavos but I want to know what tim it was supposed to be posted in case it is related to something we say. Lie if every time we say "stupid fucking butt monkey" or something it gets lower and at the end...?something bad I assume.
On November 25 2012 09:32 Promethelax wrote: okay, it seems that my role is pretty contentious for Kita and Kier (and probably everyone else who has a name that stars with K) the ability I used last night Roleblocks all players who target a single player with their actions. I took a gamble and assumed that I was the only one with a roleblocking ability because only two people claimed RB'd and I assumed that they both targeted Syllo. I did not want to reveal why I knew that those players targeted Syllo or the correlation with the roleblocks (this is why I haven't yet confronted marv about his targeting Syllo but now that the cat is out of the bag: Marv, what were you trying to do to the Great Leader?). I decided to gamble that i was right and that Sand had targeted Syllo (50% chance at least just from there being only two RB claims) and force him to claim what he had done.
<snip>
Why, though?
because I thought it was likely that in a 25 player game at least one player would target the leader of the successful d1 quest, I assumed that at least one mafia would target him with a detrimental ability. If no one targeted him he would eventually gain some protection. win-win.
On November 25 2012 20:51 Oatsmaster wrote: I had the best white meat turkey EVER. It was so fucking good :D. So full.....
Also yeah, Prome sounds extremely powerful, I/E not town but that is one of the worst reasoning for lynching someone. Its like a single nail when you need the coffin
this may be the dumbest sentence I've ever read in mafia. Powerful =/= alignment indicative. Also the rest of my abilities make me way over powered. You know one of the things I can do.
On November 25 2012 09:32 Promethelax wrote: okay, it seems that my role is pretty contentious for Kita and Kier (and probably everyone else who has a name that stars with K) the ability I used last night Roleblocks all players who target a single player with their actions. I took a gamble and assumed that I was the only one with a roleblocking ability because only two people claimed RB'd and I assumed that they both targeted Syllo. I did not want to reveal why I knew that those players targeted Syllo or the correlation with the roleblocks (this is why I haven't yet confronted marv about his targeting Syllo but now that the cat is out of the bag: Marv, what were you trying to do to the Great Leader?). I decided to gamble that i was right and that Sand had targeted Syllo (50% chance at least just from there being only two RB claims) and force him to claim what he had done.
<snip>
Why, though?
because I thought it was likely that in a 25 player game at least one player would target the leader of the successful d1 quest, I assumed that at least one mafia would target him with a detrimental ability. If no one targeted him he would eventually gain some protection. win-win.
But you worked from the assumption that in a 25 player game you're the only one with a roleblocking ability?
On November 25 2012 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually I think that its too fast to be for lavos, the first '10' was posted less than 12 hours ago, I think that it is related to an ability. I also think that the ability is targeted towards a scum player because a town player wouldve told us the reason. WIFOM ftw :D
I don't think that's WIFOM. It would be wifom to call someone who tells us about the countdown town, however.
well since both Marv and Sand targeted Syllo it seemed possible but I was wrong. Risk claimed RB today and I didn't do it.
On November 25 2012 20:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Hmm. Anyone see any significance in the KST? as opposed to CST which is Grey's timezone I think.
Prome, I said it didnt mean much.. Defensive much?
kst is TL timezone. I assume that is the significance.
Not really, I'm not threatened by you being dumb.
I am being defensive but not because you think I'm powerful, I'm defensive because a bunch of generally good players have scum reads on me when I think I've played a pretty townie game for someone who has had as little time as I've had.
err...10 hours ago. hurble gurble. Me stupid after work.
Acro, glad to have you back. Can you explain to me the contradiction in your play where you distrust Kier's low success modifier but also suggest that you have a similar low modifier.
On November 25 2012 21:10 Acrofales wrote: Prom, are there any downsides to your abilty? Or some othe aspect of your role?
essentially the downsides are only if my reads are bad. There are some restrictions on when I can use my claimed ability. There are other aspects of my role which are, in my opinion, less powerful than the claimed aspect. but can be used when the claimed aspect cannot be used.
you can check my games oats, I am trying to tone down my use of IRL excuses but I really do have a ton of stuff to do in my life outside of the game. I think I'm taking a break from mafia after this game. I am not content with my play here and don't want to play when I don't have the time to commit.
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
Holy shit. This post has merit. What have you done with Draz?
On November 26 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: Sadly people never listen to me and always end up being scolded for it in the postgame. Especially setup speculation which along with actionbehaviour is my backyard.
I always listen to you, I just don't let anyone know. Shh!
On a serious matter, if you think Chronicledude is town and telling the truth, why don't you think Toad is necessarily scum?
Yes but generally people assume I have extra knowledge and this is how they tend to react (pickyourpoison)
And CJ has the right of it. If acro is 1-shot he should had claimed immediately. And he did not push toad very hard.
While I would normally agree with this, since today isn't a lynch day and we can do nothing about Toad today, I don't think its unreasonable to think he would have waited until tomorrow.
In fact, I would have expected both of them to wait until tomorrow. THAT'S what I find weird.
there is town kp flying around. Why not make people aware of scum in our midst? I don't get this at all Keir. While we don't have a lynch we do have other abilities which we can use to eliminate scum players.
On November 26 2012 03:21 syllogism wrote: I think those may potentially affect mission success, but in the end best and most likely design is based primarily on mafia being included in the team. I do not think a mission can fail if there is no mafia included; that kind of hidden mechanics are simply not fun. The only possible, and still unfun, exception I can see would be some kind of one-shot mafia ability, but I think they would have used that on n1.
In fact, I think the speculation revolving around whether we should include claimed characters or players with matching time period flavor is also misguided (dienosore and oats should be included because they were on a successful day 1 mission, although the roles do not hurt).
So, in short, ignore hp/roles, unless the claims themselves make someone more likely to be town.
Out of interest, any reason you advocate those 2 rather than yourself?
No, including me is fine.
why didn't you include yourself? Even though we did get a successful d1 it doesn't totally confirm the guys on that squad. I'd want to get on the quest if I thought I had any chance of that because I read my role pm, I know I'm town, that means there are only three people I have to trust instead of four. better odds.
On November 26 2012 03:27 risk.nuke wrote: Right now the general assumption is just that if one party member is mafia the party fails. But that doesn't make sense because then HSM would be useless.
I thought the general assumption was that my hidden modifier was boosted due to matching my role with the correct time period, enough so that I could potentially carry even if scum was on the team.
Does your role PM say anything about it being boosted if you're in the party during your era?
Mine doesn't, although I do get other bonuses when I'm in the party during my era.
No, it doesn't say I get a boost in my pm. I just assumed it because the likelyhood of syllo correctly picking 3 townies on day 1 was low, yet we still won the challenge.
It's highly possible Syllo just had some good reads, but surely having Frog in the squad during 600ad couldn't have hurt either.
no it wasn't. Which of oats and Kier of you do you think is scum? (Since you know your own alignment and clearly A scum Syllo would have been able to 100% pick three townies)
On November 26 2012 05:38 TheChronicler wrote: I see. That doesn't explain clarity's defense of you.
the explanation is that you are an idiot and defending people against you makes sense because you are as dumb as a rock. Claim who you are. You said you wouldn't do it d1 but we're in the 3rd cycle now.
okay, hapa, Zbo and Syllo all have suspicions on me but won't respond to the things I say. You guys are all being idiots. If you are town you can't know my alignment. All that you can gain from actually interacting with me is more information. Now stop being so stubborn and actually reply to the things I have said.
Marv: you asked someone if I 'guessed' that you targeted Syllo too. What do you think? Did I guess it? Did I roleblock both you and Sand? What is truth?
err...10 hours ago. hurble gurble. Me stupid after work.
Acro, glad to have you back. Can you explain to me the contradiction in your play where you distrust Kier's low success modifier but also suggest that you have a similar low modifier.
Acro. Respond to this. And why did you ask about the downsides to my ability?
On November 26 2012 06:59 marvellosity wrote: how you knew / if you were guessing that i visited syllo
I was guessing. What I knew was that anyone who targeted Syllo was roleblocked and I chose to present that educated guess as total truth to Sand which lead, i think, to us knowing what ability he was trying to use on Syllo last night since he didn't know how I 'knew' that he targeted Syllo and guessed I might know the ability name too.
On November 26 2012 06:59 marvellosity wrote: how you knew / if you were guessing that i visited syllo
I was guessing. What I knew was that anyone who targeted Syllo was roleblocked and I chose to present that educated guess as total truth to Sand which lead, i think, to us knowing what ability he was trying to use on Syllo last night since he didn't know how I 'knew' that he targeted Syllo and guessed I might know the ability name too.
What were you trying to achieve in asking me why I'd visited syllo?
I don't trust you. I want to learn more (though I don't think that you are scum right now). The more I know the better. Also wanted to make you realize that I was telling the truth about my role.
TC: you have enough gold for more things (you said you used 200 and that was not the number you started with) can you use popcorn again? And if so why did you not use it n2?
On November 26 2012 06:59 marvellosity wrote: how you knew / if you were guessing that i visited syllo
I was guessing. What I knew was that anyone who targeted Syllo was roleblocked and I chose to present that educated guess as total truth to Sand which lead, i think, to us knowing what ability he was trying to use on Syllo last night since he didn't know how I 'knew' that he targeted Syllo and guessed I might know the ability name too.
What were you trying to achieve in asking me why I'd visited syllo?
I don't trust you. I want to learn more (though I don't think that you are scum right now). The more I know the better. Also wanted to make you realize that I was telling the truth about my role.
you thought your distrust of me was worth outing my role?
I thought that it was worth outing your target. You outed your role. Your target was something I wanted town to know if I died (unlikely but possible).
On November 26 2012 07:25 TheChronicler wrote: Ebwop: why are you so eager to know what I did last night? By extension, why are you trying to get me to give scum information?
because you are a claimed cop. I want to know your checks from the previous cycle. You have a big ole target painted on your back already. Also now that I realize who you are I'm more annoyed. You are better than this.
On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour.
also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment.
he tried to get us to consolidate on one of two scum players and you are null on him? I'm confused.
eh, I'll refrain from revealing it for now but I'd like you to think about the fact that I know who you are. Rise to the challenge and play well instead of trolly as fuck and dumb because you can get away with it.
On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour.
also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment.
he tried to get us to consolidate on one of two scum players and you are null on him? I'm confused.
Why? Scum would benefit in this situation when the thread derails/new candidates are brought forths, so I don't see the scum motivation in doing what GK did.
On November 25 2012 14:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Well, I've just taken a long and hard look at prom's filters and to me it checks out - he looks much better after defending himself. We'll never know if that's exactly what happened at the time or if his reasoning on kita is just something he came up with right now, but let's see where his play leads us. Gonna check hopeless out, from a quick skim of his filter the guy looks hella scummy.
sorry man. took me three read throughs of your filter.
On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour.
also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment.
You are saying that you expected scum to go ahead and try to sway the lynch of another scum with 10+ on them? Nah, I'm pretty sure scum bussed sand hardcore.
Well, now that you mention it, it could be a bus, but I see it as very unlikely. There is a difference between bussing and activily trying to get people to consolidate.
@Prom It's because I'm paranoid and very cautions with townreads.
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote: haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?
He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)
On November 26 2012 08:00 Promethelax wrote: okay, every ten hours
If by '10' you mean '12', then yes
I'm pretty sure I mean 10.
Kita: my role is not one use. There are some restrictions on when it can be used though. Why are you the only guy with a town read on me in this game? what is it you think you see?
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.
IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson
Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
risk.nuke
that is all.
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote: haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?
He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)
do you believe Toad's role claim?
I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.
five hundred seems to be close to the health of flipped players (~600), he could be vigged if he was dealt 500 damage (unless he is one of the way better characters).
On November 26 2012 08:11 Promethelax wrote: but 10 was at 10:05 so 10->12->14?
naw i think it was just because daypost or whatever you want to call it was late.
okay. We'll leave it again for another half a day until the next one pops up. Care to comment on anything that isn't pointless right now?
not if you're going to be a dick, no
not even being a dick (right now). But lets leave our speculation by the wayside and talk about how you feel about Acro who will 'negatively affect any party he is in' but doesn't believe Kier when he says essentially the same thing.
On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless Actually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong. In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no?
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.
IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson
Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
risk.nuke
that is all.
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:48 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote: haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?
He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)
do you believe Toad's role claim?
I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.
Hopeless (as town or scum) should know that his play style makes him look scummy. What he has done should make us (as a town) look into him. So no, the logic is sound to include himself as possible scum there. If he is town he knows that all he did was play badly but that bad play probably doesn't excuse all the people who played that badly.
Yeah, not sure what the deal is with VE. Marv, you know him better than I do, does vanishing fit either of his metas?
On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless Actually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong. In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no?
Here:
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.
IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson
Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
risk.nuke
that is all.
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:48 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote: haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?
He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)
do you believe Toad's role claim?
I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.
Hopeless (as town or scum) should know that his play style makes him look scummy. What he has done should make us (as a town) look into him. So no, the logic is sound to include himself as possible scum there. If he is town he knows that all he did was play badly but that bad play probably doesn't excuse all the people who played that badly.
Yeah, not sure what the deal is with VE. Marv, you know him better than I do, does vanishing fit either of his metas?
Not really. In the last couple of months he's had the habit of doing this more often. I know he's had TL issues at work, which makes it all the more surprising to me he's not making the most of a Sunday to contribute. He was very eager to join this game and now he's not playing it. I should add VE quite enjoys playing scum, so meh. It's just weird that he's not here to play at all.
My understanding of VE was that he is an active player as town or scum. (I think I've mostly seen games where he played with WBG though...) and he isn't the kind of guy I would expect to vanish ever. Though that does, in may ways, match his LC play.
On November 26 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote: [quote]
naw, i just missed it. i'll have a proper look now.
Z-Bo, although I'm inclined to be lazy right now because we have our lynch for tomorrow (presuming we have one) I would say from the tone of his posts Hopeless is probably town.
We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality.
Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this.
What does that mean, all people on sand are confirmed town? I don't see where you're going with this. There's no way to know, yeah some scum probably bussed him and some probably didn't
No. If you read the last page or two, I said I feel that sand was most likely bussed (ergo, toad). Phagga is giving gk a town read based on the fact that he didn't want people to vote for anyone other than sand or toad, and I'm not sure I agree with this logic.
Scum most likely bussed Sand, therefore toad is scum....
There are a lot of reasons Toad is probably scum right now, but that is probably not one of them. As for Phagga's analysis on GK, he basically called him null by the end of it so.... don't read too much into it.
Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him.
My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point?
You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree.
yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really
the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually)
Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction?
We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality.
Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this.
What does that mean, all people on sand are confirmed town? I don't see where you're going with this. There's no way to know, yeah some scum probably bussed him and some probably didn't
No. If you read the last page or two, I said I feel that sand was most likely bussed (ergo, toad). Phagga is giving gk a town read based on the fact that he didn't want people to vote for anyone other than sand or toad, and I'm not sure I agree with this logic.
Scum most likely bussed Sand, therefore toad is scum....
There are a lot of reasons Toad is probably scum right now, but that is probably not one of them. As for Phagga's analysis on GK, he basically called him null by the end of it so.... don't read too much into it.
Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him.
My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point?
You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree.
yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really
the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually)
Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction?
I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon.
With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing?
On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless Actually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong. In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no?
Here:
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.
IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson
Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
risk.nuke
that is all.
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:48 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote: haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?
He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)
do you believe Toad's role claim?
I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.
I don't think my logic is flawed. My reasoning is that at least one of myself, you and Acro have a good chance to flip scum because we all a) Showed support of sandroba for party leader and b) voted for someone other than sandroba to lynch
Both actions are rife with mafia motive. The fact that I, a member of the town, fall into that group does not absolve the other people in the same group. You attempting to exonerate yourself in this way is scummy.
I also find it scummy that you were unable to see what I was pointing out until after mementoss updated the votecount. Based on the timestamps, I think you had time to see the votecount, realize you were caught in a lie and needed a way out, so you jump to discredit my logic since the facts were made certain.
a) Like a billion of people, including confirmed townies. b) Also meaningless, as sand definitely had mafia on his wagon.
Also, using a logic that includes you in the scum group is necessarily bad, because I can use that same exact logic and say that I'm town, ergo one of you two must be scum.
So, yea, very weak OMGUS.
The thing about that is that I expect to die and I expect you and Acro to live longer than I do. In the event that both Toad and I turn up town, well...hopefully someone remembers this exchange.
wait...why is Toad coming up town? And why should we look at Zbo if that happens when there are two guys with claimed red checks on him one of whom has a pretty fishy check and the other of whom refuses to confirm if he can check other people.
No. If you read the last page or two, I said I feel that sand was most likely bussed (ergo, toad). Phagga is giving gk a town read based on the fact that he didn't want people to vote for anyone other than sand or toad, and I'm not sure I agree with this logic.
Scum most likely bussed Sand, therefore toad is scum....
There are a lot of reasons Toad is probably scum right now, but that is probably not one of them. As for Phagga's analysis on GK, he basically called him null by the end of it so.... don't read too much into it.
Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him.
My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point?
You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree.
yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really
the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually)
Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction?
I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon.
With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing?
that is what I mean about Acro. Yes.
Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it.
Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation.
I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value.
On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless Actually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong. In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no?
Here:
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.
IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson
Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
risk.nuke
that is all.
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:48 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote: haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him?
He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said)
do you believe Toad's role claim?
I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.
I don't think my logic is flawed. My reasoning is that at least one of myself, you and Acro have a good chance to flip scum because we all a) Showed support of sandroba for party leader and b) voted for someone other than sandroba to lynch
Both actions are rife with mafia motive. The fact that I, a member of the town, fall into that group does not absolve the other people in the same group. You attempting to exonerate yourself in this way is scummy.
I also find it scummy that you were unable to see what I was pointing out until after mementoss updated the votecount. Based on the timestamps, I think you had time to see the votecount, realize you were caught in a lie and needed a way out, so you jump to discredit my logic since the facts were made certain.
a) Like a billion of people, including confirmed townies. b) Also meaningless, as sand definitely had mafia on his wagon.
Also, using a logic that includes you in the scum group is necessarily bad, because I can use that same exact logic and say that I'm town, ergo one of you two must be scum.
So, yea, very weak OMGUS.
The thing about that is that I expect to die and I expect you and Acro to live longer than I do. In the event that both Toad and I turn up town, well...hopefully someone remembers this exchange.
wait...why is Toad coming up town? And why should we look at Zbo if that happens when there are two guys with claimed red checks on him one of whom has a pretty fishy check and the other of whom refuses to confirm if he can check other people.
*shrug* I don't want Toad to flip town, but I see it as possible despite the copclaims
Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him.
My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point?
You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree.
yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really
the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually)
Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction?
I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon.
With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing?
that is what I mean about Acro. Yes.
Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it.
Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation.
I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value.
That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission.
Okay. Thanks for the read. Who do you think is the most likely scum after Toad (or instead of Toad); if you had a vig power who would you hit?
On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless Actually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong. In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no?
Here:
On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far.
IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson
Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
risk.nuke
that is all.
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote: [quote]
do you believe Toad's role claim?
I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum.
I don't think my logic is flawed. My reasoning is that at least one of myself, you and Acro have a good chance to flip scum because we all a) Showed support of sandroba for party leader and b) voted for someone other than sandroba to lynch
Both actions are rife with mafia motive. The fact that I, a member of the town, fall into that group does not absolve the other people in the same group. You attempting to exonerate yourself in this way is scummy.
I also find it scummy that you were unable to see what I was pointing out until after mementoss updated the votecount. Based on the timestamps, I think you had time to see the votecount, realize you were caught in a lie and needed a way out, so you jump to discredit my logic since the facts were made certain.
a) Like a billion of people, including confirmed townies. b) Also meaningless, as sand definitely had mafia on his wagon.
Also, using a logic that includes you in the scum group is necessarily bad, because I can use that same exact logic and say that I'm town, ergo one of you two must be scum.
So, yea, very weak OMGUS.
The thing about that is that I expect to die and I expect you and Acro to live longer than I do. In the event that both Toad and I turn up town, well...hopefully someone remembers this exchange.
wait...why is Toad coming up town? And why should we look at Zbo if that happens when there are two guys with claimed red checks on him one of whom has a pretty fishy check and the other of whom refuses to confirm if he can check other people.
*shrug* I don't want Toad to flip town, but I see it as possible despite the copclaims
could you explain why this is possible?
First off, I think it's way simpler for Toad to be scum. In order for Toad to be town, the most plausible scenario would be that scum framed him night 1 and acro faked his "1-shot role+alignment check".
If Toad flips scum, awesome. If he doesn't, I have a problem with Z-Bo and Acro, and lets face it, I'm not winning that fight. Again, I'm covering my bases for the just in case scenario.
What do you think Acro gains by claiming that after a claimed cop already said that he had a red result on Toad?
You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree.
yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really
the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually)
Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction?
I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon.
With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing?
that is what I mean about Acro. Yes.
Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it.
Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation.
I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value.
That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission.
Okay. Thanks for the read. Who do you think is the most likely scum after Toad (or instead of Toad); if you had a vig power who would you hit?
Not sure. Someone in my 'not really done anything to make me think he's town' list. There are people on borderline I'd have to filter to make a call too.
goodkarma/Adam/VE are in the not done anything to make me think he's town list. kita's in some space i'm not sure of. borderline players are people like hapa, Z-bo, iamp You're also in a special place as syllo thinks you're scum atm and I love me some syllo sheeping. I'd need to hear more from him on that though.
do you think Syllo has a valid point on why I am scum? My 'fake claim' . And out of Adam/VE/GK is there a reason you'd pick one over the others or just a shot into the player who have done nothing?
On November 26 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote: [quote]
Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction?
I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon.
With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing?
that is what I mean about Acro. Yes.
Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it.
Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation.
I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value.
That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission.
Okay. Thanks for the read. Who do you think is the most likely scum after Toad (or instead of Toad); if you had a vig power who would you hit?
Not sure. Someone in my 'not really done anything to make me think he's town' list. There are people on borderline I'd have to filter to make a call too.
goodkarma/Adam/VE are in the not done anything to make me think he's town list. kita's in some space i'm not sure of. borderline players are people like hapa, Z-bo, iamp You're also in a special place as syllo thinks you're scum atm and I love me some syllo sheeping. I'd need to hear more from him on that though.
do you think Syllo has a valid point on why I am scum? My 'fake claim' . And out of Adam/VE/GK is there a reason you'd pick one over the others or just a shot into the player who have done nothing?
I don't understand his points on you very well and some of it is based on setup speculation that i don't think is necessarily true ("this looks like a mafia ability"). It could be a fake-claim, it could not, meh.
Out of those 3 I'd put Adam 3rd. Also I didn't say they'd done nothing, I said they hadn't done anything to make me think they were town, there's a difference. If I was a vigilante I'd probably shoot VE for his and Bio's combined lack of content, whereas at least GK is posting.
thanks and thanks. Do you think a ~5 man mafia team makes sense? If so do you think that there is a third party? I'm assuming both are true but I'd like some input.
Two things... 1) I really don't get that line of analysis. What about that particular voting pattern makes it likely for scum to have done that? You don't explain why scum would vote Sandroba then not vote to lynch him the next day as compared to other alternatives. I don't feel that it is a super-likely voting pattern. 2)
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
...the fuck? Like I don't even understand this line of defense. You think you're "more likely to be scum" than Acro and Z-Bo?
What. In. The. Hell.
what he is saying is that he thinks the rest of town sees him as more likely to be scum. If you read his posts in Draz's voice they follow an internal logic at least.
Hapa, now that you are here, I'm curious as to why you wanted Marv to lead the party over the 'confirmed' town players. I get that you think his reads are better (which is factual) but I don't see the benefit of him leading the mission and, if it was up to me, he wouldn't even be on it.
Two things... 1) I really don't get that line of analysis. What about that particular voting pattern makes it likely for scum to have done that? You don't explain why scum would vote Sandroba then not vote to lynch him the next day as compared to other alternatives. I don't feel that it is a super-likely voting pattern. 2)
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
...the fuck? Like I don't even understand this line of defense. You think you're "more likely to be scum" than Acro and Z-Bo?
What. In. The. Hell.
what he is saying is that he thinks the rest of town sees him as more likely to be scum. If you read his posts in Draz's voice they follow an internal logic at least.
Yes, but the self-criticism is still really strange when compared to his past games. Like his activity this game is actually an improvement over other games I've seen him play in. In those other, less-active games, he's far less apologetic for his behavior. Even as a blue role (vigi in Mario Mini), he was pretty un-apologetic about his early-game lurkiness.
this is true. I don't like his play at all but I'm not sure he is a huge scum read for me. Though he certainly isn't in the green column. I think I'm blinded by my attempts to distance myself from how much I dislike his play. Similarly to how you are always scum and Marv is always town Hope is always scum. But I'm trying to separate my real reads from my emotions and I may be over compensating.
On November 26 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote: Starting to think about actions, should we send them to Hassy now too?
No it should be fine im back in action
okay, excellent. Thanks.
Hope, are you saying you did damage to yourself but don't know the result of that action?
I know what happened the first time but I don't actually know what the results are until I get them. I only have one data point to infer what my ability is.
was teh thing which happened the first time worth sac'ing more health for a second go?
also: I read that post from Toad thought "oh cool so not voting Toad is like having a 500 HP vig shot on a vet that many people think is scummy; I'll vote elsewhere thanks" If you had kept your vote off him for a while we could have pressured him with his claimed role but no.
Why did you want the heal over Syllo/Dieno? Why did you think that you were more of a town asset than either of them?
So, Hopeless, would you please get into the filters of Acro and Zbo and tell me what they are pushing as a scum team with Sand. What is it that that three man group is doing? Is TC a part of it? Why or why not?
He didn't even conclude that. When I directly asked him he said that Toad would most likely flip scum. Okay Hapa, I'm buying your case more and more the more he talks.
OKay so, just making sure I have this right, Acro and Zbo are both scum Toad and TC are town, Toad was framed by Acro/Zbo and Acro claimed to know Toad's role name and alignment because...?
On November 26 2012 11:41 Promethelax wrote: OKay so, just making sure I have this right, Acro and Zbo are both scum Toad and TC are town, Toad was framed by Acro/Zbo and Acro claimed to know Toad's role name and alignment because...?
Because I'm insane. Deal with it. When Toad flips scum, have a field day with me, this is no longer productive.
no, I seriously want to hear you out, but wat? You don't have any justification for the behaviour of these guys you are accusing.
On November 26 2012 12:19 Hapahauli wrote: Marv, can I hear your thoughts on all of this (re: Hopeless)?
your original case a couple pages ago is still the most persuasive thing. A lot of the contradictions that have been pointed out are actually consistent with his convoluted line of thinking, so i don't think they're as damning as they look outwardly.
While I agree that the "contradictions" can be explained if we accept that his read was indeed "conditional" (but unmentioned), I'm pretty convinced that the bolded (below) is a scumslip (re: toads alignment). In fact a lot of his recent actions seem to be setting up for Toad to flip non-mafia.
I think it's a very legitimate possibility that Toad is a third party role or something. Though this would rely on mafia framing Toad both N1 (Chronicler check) and N2 (Acro check).
On November 26 2012 11:28 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 11:15 Promethelax wrote: also: I read that post from Toad thought "oh cool so not voting Toad is like having a 500 HP vig shot on a vet that many people think is scummy; I'll vote elsewhere thanks" If you had kept your vote off him for a while we could have pressured him with his claimed role but no.
Why did you want the heal over Syllo/Dieno? Why did you think that you were more of a town asset than either of them?
I'd say its probably worth another go, and I didn't really think about who could benefit more than me. I'm not a greater asset, now that you ask. And as for the 500hp vig shot, yes in hindsight probably not the best move if we could finish him off.
On November 26 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: @ Hopeless
Well first-off, while I'm interested in hearing your responses, I'm more interested in seeing you scumhunt. But that being said, there are some things I want to hear about:
On November 26 2012 10:28 Hopeless1der wrote: I supported sandroba for party leader and I've failed to do anything in terms of scumhunting, I go on to defend sandroba from a lynch, and of course he flips scum. If you weren't getting scumvibes from me, you're giving me too much credit (or too little ) The townie motivation is...I thought I was right. I was clearly wrong as evidenced by sand's flip. This kind of thing can't be adequately defended against because I hadn't put any effort into the thread and it would come down to "because I said so" as my defense. Its a waste of time, and I'd rather acknowledge the fact that I look scummy and move on. P.S. This was not a ploy like the one I pulled day 1 in Looney, this is me being bad. The fact that I went after Z-Bo is because of the day 1 voting, he just happened to have the case against me at the time.
The issue here is that you see "mafia motivation" in your own actions, which is really odd, given that a townie-Hopeless would have less doubts about his actions. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words, but it is a notable choice nonetheless.
On November 26 2012 10:45 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 26 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: So Hopeless, since you're around, care to comment on my post as a whole? Any insight into your thoughts (particularly regarding TheChronicler and Toad at the time of your votes) would help.
In addition, you mentioned self-inflicted damage. Why didn't you disclose this?
For Toad, on the off chance that he was telling the truth, I didn't want him taking damage. Otherwise, redcheck = lynch, and he's dead regardless of the damage he may take. It might have made it happen sooner if we aimed damage at him, but that's like playing into modkills. Secure the lynch if you want scum. If a vig helps you along the way, cool, but play to lynch imo.
TC - He was getting pushed by Acro and Z-Bo and I thought he came off looking scummy. I didn't want to lynch sandroba, and TC insisted he was never planning on giving townreads or even using townreads to make his party, and waffled whether or not his plan was bad a couple times. I found it scummy, and the post I voted off of was him saying he'd vote for reasons that are not necessarily connected to being scum (number of votes someone has).
As to the damage, its not like its possible to confirm it, so why claim it? I didn't know what Toad would do, but he admitted to having a heal, and I would like one, so what the hell, might as well ask.
Uhh... that bolded part makes no sense. You didn't believe TheChronicler's check on Toad, but you believed Acro's check on toad. This would be fine and dandy if Acro wasn't your top scumread right now.
Please explain. Also, who's your top scumread atm?
On November 25 2012 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: When did you check Sandroba and when did you check me? Sandroba just flipped frame busdriver, just asking because I'm not mafia.
I'm Johnny the attention-whore robot. I'm leader of a gang and therefore got the biggest ego in town. If I don't get 1 vote per day I take lots and lots of dmg. I don't want to get too much into detail there but I would have taken 500 damage yesterday had noone voted for me. Not entirely sure because of my internet going out but I wasn't able to ask Greymist because of that so I just wanted to be safe because my role already got changed once... Besides being able to literally kill myself I can use one of my machines and charge them for healing powers. I can only charge or heal, not both per night. I hit myself n1 for 100dmg and I should have targeted Hapa this cycle for 100 dmg getting a 2nd charge.
Not sure if I can actually copy & paste my role, so I just described it and the best way to play it probably would have been to outright claim it d1 but I wanted to play it out, therefore I tried to be somewhat okayish d1, getting at least 1 vote (thx oats :3 ) and lurked d2, hoping that would do the trick to get a vote on me. It didn't so I started to behave more and more retarded by the minute until I had people voting for me :p
Players who have yet to vote (12): CaveJohnson, Hapahauli, Z-BosoN, strongandbig, goodkarma, BioSC, Keirathi, syllogism, phagga, Adam4167, sandroba, Toadesstern
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Does that mean you can actually vote for yourself? I figured that's not possible oO
My role says I need to be voted at least once a day. That's why I said I assumed you can't vote yourself. Greymist told me to change it to "you need to be voted once per cycle by someone OTHER than yourself"
On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote: @both: Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p
What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event?
What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy?
Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice.
What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question.
dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else.
Okay, let me rephrase:
Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well).
Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process?
nope
I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say?
Why do you want this, Toad?
I still need to find the guy I want to vote for.
Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to?
what do you mean I'm asking the wrong question? And what questions are you referring to? What the hell are you talking about?
The fact that you asked about Goodkarma rather than why I'm voting Kita without reasoning. I would have thought the 2nd one should be the more interesting part.
On November 23 2012 00:35 marvellosity wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote: [quote] dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else.
Okay, let me rephrase:
Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well).
Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process?
nope
I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say?
Why do you want this, Toad?
I still need to find the guy I want to vote for.
Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to?
Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing.
If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on.
Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why.
Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way:
Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing.
because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people.
Perhaps I don't remember your play too well, then. Sure you do illogical things, and half the time I don't understand what your posts are saying, but usually they are part of some big show. I don't think I'm wrong to think this. There's a lack of HypnoToad so far, don't you think?
For all I know what you're criticising is "HypnoToad". Remember the game I was the phone booth mason in which you were mafia? I'd say that game was a characteristic "screw this I'm board, let's HypnoToad"-game to the extreme. I'm not planning on doing that again but that's what "HypnoToad" is about. Yeah there was no big fireworks this time around but it's still early in the game, isn't it? So I'm really having troubles with your judgement here. You're telling me there was little HypnoToad in this game so far and yet you're criticising me right now? That just not making sense and again, I feel like you should know better of all the people.
On November 23 2012 00:33 Acrofales wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:
On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote: [quote] dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else.
Okay, let me rephrase:
Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well).
Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process?
nope
I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say?
Why do you want this, Toad?
I still need to find the guy I want to vote for.
Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to?
Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing.
If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on.
Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why.
Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way:
Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing.
because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people.
Oh god, is this Toad the drama queen feeling unloved because he didn't get elected party leader, so will now throw a temper tantrum by playing badly until the rest of town listens to him?
Dude, if you knew :p I'm going to run to leader every single day from now on. I have to, it's my nature
On November 24 2012 23:11 Toadesstern wrote: and Chronicler, if you really think my mafia meta is to lurk or soft defende people (pretty much everything you said about me) you prooooobably should be voting me as well. I like people voting me, gives me some attention I'm craving for so much, it's in my blood... or well, whatever else :p
If you don't think so could you please stop the nonsensical "OMFG TOAD IS LURKING" or "OMFG TOAD IS SOFTDEFENDING" when I at least admitted the first one myself (the 2nd one was just bullshit) and when clearly neither of those is alignment indicating at all for me. You're a smurf right? You should know me and you should very well know that I'm Mr. HypnoToad, especially in the games I ended up playing as mafia.... LI, never forget oh and hi VE So do me a favor and actually ready my posts instead of what you're doing right now.
Again, would have been best to outright claim it but I wanted to play it out. I had a bullshit postingrestriction last game as well and it freaked me the fuck out that I wasn't allowed to post for 48hours straight when I wanted to so badly. This time I just when chilling and thought I'll live with it instead of stressing me out how horrible this role is.
So again: When did you check me and Sandro? And sorry for playing the way I did but I really had to. I don't assume you'll stop lynching me because I might as well make up some ridiculous bullshit and had this planned since the very first hour of the game I guess... Anyway don't listen to Kita, don't lynch Draz. I'm going to use my 200HP heal on someone tonight, I don't think I'll be able to gather another charge if the next cycle is a lynch again and we (somehow oO) got a red check on me after how I played :p
He 'explains' how he doesn't need the vote to stick here: + Show Spoiler +
On November 25 2012 11:53 Toadesstern wrote: oh and obviously asking people yesterday about voting me please (I think I asked chronicler & acro) was as well because I still needed the one vote to dodge the 500dmg.
Oh and I'll run for leader, vote me please :3
So... you took 500 damage D1 then?
nope. someone voted me.
On November 25 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 25 2012 12:57 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 25 2012 12:24 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 25 2012 12:22 Hopeless1der wrote:
On November 25 2012 12:14 Acrofales wrote: [quote] You're an idiot. He's lying.
Oh, you're his scumbuddy? Because that's really the only way I see that statement being both an insult and true.
You seem to be forgetting a bunch of things regarding that claim. 1) Toad is scummy as shit. 2) The role isn't necessarily blue - it could be red 3) The role is much more powerful than the other town-alligned roles we've seen so far.
except for the part where I take 500 fucking damage if I don't get a vote on me every cycle...
Cool. So that changes things why exactly? Hell I have a hard time you're telling the truth about that ability.
Secondly, you still have yet to explain this:
On November 25 2012 11:55 Hapahauli wrote: Just to get this straight Toad - you targeted me with 100 damage despite never mentioning me as a scumread in your filter? Ok buddy.
I'm redistributing HP a little +EV. I'm hitting people who aren't going to be protected above anything else. I even hit myself n1 to get that charge. Probably (?) would not have gotten the charge had I targeted Sandro because he was lynched.
Zzzz, I'm tired of your lies. I have a 1-shot role+alignment check. Used it on you last night. You're Queen Zeal
Well no I'm not.
Okay, lets entertain the hypnotoad for a little bit, because I'm bored. You are hereby claiming that either TheChronicler and I are both scum and lying, or you were bussed/framed/whatever two nights in a row. I can understand N2, because I was ramping up the heat on you, but N1 as well? Lol.
The other thing wrong with your claim is that there were no votes on you D1. At some point Oats voted for you, but at the end of the day there was nobody voting for you... unless you're saying you have a secret doublevoting scumbuddy of course.
am I allowed to quote my pm? It says at any point during the day included in the party or get a vote. I asked Greymist about it d1 and he said a single vote on me is enough as long as it's someone elses. I don't need to be in the party and it doesn't have to be like that at the end of the cycle because of the "at any time during the day". Did Chronicle claim to check me n1 or was it n2 as well?
I mean if it's n1 there's no point in talking and you'll lynch me either way and I'll just ask you to watch at him after I flip. I highly doubt you're going to stop lynching me even if he says / said n2. I just claimed to get you know, 4 days ahead of time (assuming lynches and events alternate) instead of the moment I flip and have huge chaos. Right now there's not much I can ruin because people will vote for a someone out of the d1-party anyways.
It was more a matter of 'what if Toad is telling the truth' than whether or not I believed TC's claim (or Acro's). Very rarely is it a good idea to ignore a claimed redcheck (grush notwithstanding) but its a themed game, crazy shit happens.
My scumreads on either Acro or Z-Bo are very dependent on Toad flipping town. If he flips Queen Zeal like Acro says, I eat my words and try to find scum elsewhere, but one thing at a time. I've yet to go through properly, but I remember Z-Bo being suspicious of Toad because his posting didn't match his LVII game where Toad was an assassin. If he was right, he called it really early and I'd call it an unlikely bus.
Ok the bolded makes absolutely no sense with your previous posts.
I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
risk.nuke
that is all.
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +
On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored.
I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you.
It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit.
Well, I would not vote for the following reasons
The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread.
Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me.
As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him.
Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him.
@risk.nuke
You have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here)
Ok, fair enough.
Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho...
What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town.
TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim...
you think acro faked his copclaim as well?
Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient.
09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim
Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus.
Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real.
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
Your "scumread" on Acro isn't dependent at all on Toad flipping town. It's not even part of your analysis.
Hell I'm looking through your filter and I'm seeing all sorts of strange regarding your attitude on Toad. I'll post that in a minute, but I do want to know why you're suggesting your suspicion on Z-Bo/Acro is conditional on Toad flipping town.
Acro has a 1-shot role+alignment check on Toad. Its referencd in the post you quoted, through another quote via Draz, I neglected to emphasize it. I still ended with the conclusion that both Toad and I would flip town, and my hopes that our flips would be followed by pressure on Acro/Z-Bo.
ockam
Just checking in, I think third party would actually be the Ockham's solution if we assume the only results from cop checks are town and anti town. Which is possible.
Welcome To Chrono Trigger Mafia! You are Spekkio!. You are the Master of War! You have control over all elements of magic. Your abilities are the following: Water Allows the use of 2 powers the next night. (does not accumulate) Lightning Full cycle roleblock on your target. Shadow Frame busses target with another target of your choice. Fire Burns target. Target takes 200 damage in 50 damage increments over 4 days. Only allowed 1 fire active at a time. You have 600 max HP.
You will be voting on another party leader!
Only 1/2 of the party from cycle 1 may be in the party for this cycle, and syllogism, as the leader from the last event, is ineligible for the same position!!!!
Welcome To Chrono Trigger Mafia! You are Spekkio!. You are the Master of War! You have control over all elements of magic. Your abilities are the following: Water Allows the use of 2 powers the next night. (does not accumulate) Lightning Full cycle roleblock on your target. Shadow Frame busses target with another target of your choice. Fire Burns target. Target takes 200 damage in 50 damage increments over 4 days. Only allowed 1 fire active at a time. You have 600 max HP.
You will be voting on another party leader!
Only 1/2 of the party from cycle 1 may be in the party for this cycle, and syllogism, as the leader from the last event, is ineligible for the same position!!!!
here Acro. Maybe you didn't read this.
I read that shit. I fail to see your point. You have some knowledge about what a frame busser does that is before Marv's explanation, because I sure as fuck don't. Marv claims it only busses roles, not damage. Where does he get that info?
I re-read it when you were asking about how Marv knew that and I read Frame busser as someone who busses alignments not anything else. I guess I could be wrong?
Could you explain the difference between a "frame busser" and a "busser" role?
On November 26 2012 13:45 Oatsmaster wrote: Cave, dont be petty. If you think that acro is scum, make a case.
I don't need to anymore. There was no town reason to do what he did and he just ignores it. Simple and clean kill in my opinion.
Fine. I thought I'd claim immediately. Then realized there wasn't a lynch. Why bother throwing that info out unless there IS a lynch (and it therefore helps town), or Toad is fucking with people's minds (and claming therefore helps town). I know you are the king of roleclaims, but I prefer to not throw all my info in the table and then whine every cycle that people will shoot me.
Still no reason to throw your role claim out after TC's. 2-1 trade isn't nearly as nice as the 1-1 trade would have been. Sure it must of been annoying to not have any use on your 1 shot ability but thats Mafia. You could of lit up a scum target for every vigilante and role blocker but instead only did so after it was meaningless.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Also, you're not thinking straight.
My info helps nail Toad, you agree?
If it helps nail Toad and he flips scum, which I 100% think it does, then you can make the claim that my roleclaim is not alignment indicative as I might have been bussing. Go ahead and do that, but how the flying fuck does this suddenly make it a 2 for 1 trade for town?
If Toad flips and he's town, then it's a 2 for 1 trade in favour of town. So.. yeah, that would make me the greatest derp in the history of herpaderps.
In closing: you're an idiot.
Toad was already nailed by TC's claim. If you are town then you and TC will be shot by scum for your silliness.
If toad flips town he will have been framed and more than likely TC would be lynched before you allowing you to hide behind the shield of "OH NO HE WAS FRAMED!" as a "confirmed" town. True enough TC could possibly do the same but I find that less likely with regards to how he actually claimed.
scum has to shoot someone and Acro claimed his ability was one shot. I don't get it. Why does making himself a target make things bad for town? I'd say there are a few clear targets based on role and some on ability/confirmed status. Why is adding another to that list bad?
Acro, you still think that Draz is scum? I see you calling him retarded but not scum did something change? And yeah, my ability could fuck us if we have a single target for town KP. I was thinking about it and considering (though I will NOT do this) using it on the town target to see who targeted him thus confirming a bunch of town. I decided there was too much risk there and not enough reward though.
On November 26 2012 15:19 syllogism wrote: Prom: just for entertainment, what is the name of your role
That doesn't help you and it would reveal which time period I'm from, which helps scum but not town. We'll leave it until a name claim helps. I bread crumbed my role name rather zealously though, don't worry.
On November 26 2012 15:30 syllogism wrote: Oh ok, so outing marv's action and the fact he has a role helps town, but you revealing your role name does not. You seem more worried about claiming your role name than your powers
I did not believe that Marv was town and wanted to make sure town knew that he targeted you. Do you really think that there is anyone in this game without a role? I have claimed one of my powers. By doing so we know what power was used on you n1 by mafia.
Also, when did you get to be this dumb? There is no mafia motivation for my play and there are people who are very scummy. Why are you focused on me when there are actual scum to hunt. Tunneling me doesn't serve any useful purpose for town Syllo. What are you hoping to gain from this?
I'm having trouble here, your play is not that of a good player right now. I don't get it.
Hypothetical situation where I am what you think I am: If it is so obvious what I claimed I don't need to outright say it for the mafia safe claim to be gone. If someone else comes down after I'm dead and have flipped red saying "oh yeah I'm Ayla" or whatever role it is which I have obviously crumbed you could just point that out and kill them.
Man Syllo you sure managed to reply to my concerns in the last 45 minutes I've been gone. Glad to see you living up to your reputation as a good player.
keir: hey mang! Do you feel that Acro's refusal to give his reasoning on being included in the party is a scum or a town tell?
cool beans Oats, when did you change your name to Kier? Being a dick aside, I ask you (Oats) if you think that, in that case, all of the players on the quests are confirmed as town?
I would like everyone's opinion but I was asking Kier because he is the player most intimately involved in this besides Acro. I wanted his opinion unadulterated by the other players in the game but ah well, I don't get everything I want (like Syllo to stop being dumb).
See, I think you are town. I really do. I just don't get how you come to some of the conclusions you come to. I disagree with you whole heartedly.
On November 26 2012 16:45 syllogism wrote: Prom: for future reference, it's not a good strategy to berate me in every post, especially given what happened on day 1 and 2. That and telling fewer unnecessary lies should help in your future endeavours.
for present reference not being dumb will help you with this game. I have told no unnecessary lies, the only person I lied to was Sandroba and we gained information from that.
Thanks Kier, I find the whole thing a null tell (though totally weird) and my town read on Acro stands however I never want him included in a party. No matter what he claims later.
Syllo, you referenced "what happened d1 and d2" do you mean the success of the party and sand's lynch? Do you believe that since the party was successful the members (in this case you) must be town?
Dieno: could you tell us what you infer from your crazy maps? Those help us as much as me posting a list of player names with everyone shaded a different shade of purple. It probably means something to me but you have no idea what.
On November 26 2012 18:50 Promethelax wrote: Dieno: could you tell us what you infer from your crazy maps? Those help us as much as me posting a list of player names with everyone shaded a different shade of purple. It probably means something to me but you have no idea what.
It's more simmilar to posting bad/useless lists. Except worse.
I think it has gone past that to totally meaningless. That is why I want his conclusions. If ntohing else they are good for a laugh.
On November 26 2012 18:51 Promethelax wrote: Risk: no comments on the last 14 hours?
I'm in school, I've only briefly read through the thread as I ate breakfast, didn't see anything I felt like commenting on. Feel free to ask me something you want me to comment on, it will serve to motivate me to actually have a closer look at it.
In a rather selfish way I'd like you to look at Syllo's scum read of me. I don't see where it comes from at all and he hasn't done a good job of supporting it even if there is some merit to his case in his eyes. I'd like you, as a more experienced player, to tell me 1)Why Syllo would be so blase about pressuring me if he actually thought I was scum and 2)if you think I am scum and why/why not.
In addition I'd like to hear your thoughts on the party selection, you have said you'd prefer Syllo over dieno, why is that?
On November 26 2012 18:50 Promethelax wrote: Dieno: could you tell us what you infer from your crazy maps? Those help us as much as me posting a list of player names with everyone shaded a different shade of purple. It probably means something to me but you have no idea what.
It's more simmilar to posting bad/useless lists. Except worse.
I think it has gone past that to totally meaningless. That is why I want his conclusions. If ntohing else they are good for a laugh.
They are relationship maps, not scum/town indicators. If someone is talking about someone else, I connect them with the arrow pointing towards who is being talked about. The more erratic the line, the more negativity associated with it.
The maps don't lean one way or another, they are a tool that shows who feels what about who, and who is talking about who. While this is all good by itself, the real fun comes when you start cross-referencing people from day to day as situations change. Also, it is useful to see how the names group up, and if there are any cliques forming.
Anyone specific you want a conclusion about?
I'd like the conclusions you feel are most important, the ones you think I should be paying attention to.
Risk: who are those you feel more strongly about than me as scum? Since I am (as far as I can tell) on your be-wary-of-but-don't-bother to-deal-with-yet list. I'd also like your opinion on the necessity of a name claim from me, esspecially for the reason which Syllo gave.
Syllo, ever going to respond to me? Or have you decided to totally write me off? I hope to hell you are town so I can throw this in your face post game.
Okay but you are relying on your status as 'confirmed' from the first mission (which I think you believe yourself to be, though you haven't answered yet) to push that read. This is not good play. You are calling me scum by essentially saying 'lol that guy over there, him scum' without justification. That is poor play and it pisses me off not that you would suspect me but that you have so little respect for both me and the game that you can't even be assed to make a case.
Who do you have scum reads on Adam? I know lurking is your thing but I thought you'd have some ideas too.
Syllo, could you take five goddmna minutes to write up why each of Me, Risk and Acro is scum. Three sentences on each of us in one post. I'd also like a why VE, Adam, CJ and mostly Hope are town post.
it is like you don't even read my posts Syllo. As if asking for reasons for your scum reads and reasons for the reasons for your town reads on scummy or lurking players is totally unreasonable.
The first part: can you honestly say that? I'm never one to give very precise reasoning for reads and it's more of a gut feeling most of the time, about a certain post or timing or w/e. I don't even understand how you came up with this one. Second part: fair enough, I didn't bother with this day1. I'm pretty sure prom and kita are scum at this point and almost sure on clarity. I'll try to provide proof in another post.
First of all, I'm not sure if I even made this argument (my problem is mostly content/wording/tone of his posts). He hasn't given any reads whatsoever besides maybe stating that Clarity_nl is "smelly". Our reads are usually precise and not gut based; definitely not "most of the time". I discuss reads and mafia lot with him and this is a complete misrepresentation of our usual thought process. Occasionally the reads can be based on a more general feeling, but it's always based on content, so for instance we may find certain sentence or post disingenuous, but it is almost always something that can be explained in more detail. There is no way sandroba believes that he is a gut based rather than reasoning based player.
Syllo on how he finds scum. Syllo finding 'scum'
On November 26 2012 20:56 syllogism wrote: If I had to name a five person mafia team on the spot without reading any of the filters. I would probably go with
sandro toad acro prom and maaaybe risk
The above risk-prom conversation feels off, as does the fact that risk decided to run today for election. He also supported sandro early and the post in which he declared his vote is suspicious in more ways than one. Anyway, this isn't relevant right now.
conclusion: Syllo disagrees with himself. I need these reads elaborated on. Right now, as I understand it, toad is cum ebcause of the two checks, I am red because my play feels 'off, Rik is red for his connection with me and Acro is red because he isn't the same as Iamp/Clar/Djo. Is that an accurate summery? Can you please, pretty please, fuccking cherries all over, make a case instead of just hemorrhaging confirmation basis into the thread.
I was a lot more before his three cycle tunnel of me and anyone who seems to interact with me in a positive way. At this point not very. Though I have a hard time seeing what he gains by tunneling me of all people, there are better players present in this game at least some of whom must be town. I'm stuck because I don't see good motivation for scum or town to do what he is doing but he is a good player. I dunno.
because, though I had a town read on him at the time, the ability used on him by scum was a fram bus. Now I thought that was to try to frame him to come up red but it could be to frame him to come up green. Essentially one of the two guys targeted by that frame bus was scum and one was town.
and Acro, scum will have to claim RB because I am not the only player with a RB ability so if they don't laim it and someone else rb'd them that person will know that they are claiming scum.
What I meant is that assuming I target a player whom mafia is targeting and who is town my ability is great but if, for instance I target scum player whom town is targeting with a bunch of abilities (like say I have super major town read on you and I protect you but everyone else in town thinks you are scum and is shooting/DTing/whatever'ing you but you are scum I prot you from all that and RB a bunch of townies). My ability functions the same no matter who I target. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't even think about the possibility of a dreamflower-esque ability. I've never been in a game with one.
On November 26 2012 22:00 Promethelax wrote: and Acro, scum will have to claim RB because I am not the only player with a RB ability so if they don't laim it and someone else rb'd them that person will know that they are claiming scum.
When you were "bluffing" that marv and whoever else (I forget) got roleblocked because they targetted syllo, weren't you working under the assumption that you were the only roleblock ability?
I was. But I didn't use that ability d2 and Risk claimed RB. Ergo I am not the only RBer. I mentioned this already.
Clarity, you forget that this is how we found out what ability Sand used on Syllo? And that it was Sand who I bluffed into telling us that he had targeted Syllo.
Acro: do you understand now with my explanation? There is no alignment revealing aspect of my ability.
Could we please know the order of role resolution? Thank you
On November 26 2012 22:13 Promethelax wrote: Clarity, you forget that this is how we found out what ability Sand used on Syllo? And that it was Sand who I bluffed into telling us that he had targeted Syllo.
Acro: do you understand now with my explanation? There is no alignment revealing aspect of my ability.
Could we please know the order of role resolution? Thank you
I'm just trying to figure out your thinking when it came to that bluff. What if marv just got roleblocked by scum/town and he said "no I didn't target syllo, you're lying". How do you talk your way out of that? You would call marv a liar in that case? Or explain your ability at that point?
there is some limit to when I can use that ability and I have at least one other, lesser, ability which I can use on those cycles when I can't use my primary ability. I have a kickass role that, if I was a better player, could be exploited in more ways than I have figured out.
On November 26 2012 22:18 Promethelax wrote: there is some limit to when I can use that ability and I have at least one other, lesser, ability which I can use on those cycles when I can't use my primary ability. I have a kickass role that, if I was a better player, could be exploited in more ways than I have figured out.
Oh, ok. Sniped.
So it does have downsides: you cannot use it every cycle.
sometimes I can and sometimes I can't. Ummm...hard to explain without revealing the intricacies of the role to mafia. I couldn't last cycle. I will this cycle.
On November 26 2012 23:02 marvellosity wrote: I can see it happening, but on the balance of probability I would presume not. And that's what I usually work with.
On November 26 2012 23:02 marvellosity wrote: I can see it happening, but on the balance of probability I would presume not. And that's what I usually work with.
so kita=/=scum, Kita=3p in your mind?
yeah, 3rd party is my best guess. And unlike some other people I don't throw it around lightly (too many 3rd party reads in this game). My last two 3rd party reads (rock band, liquid city) have been bang on.
you were scum in LC but you were magical town jailer of doom in Rockband so I'll accept that.
I still don't see anything we as town gain from a full roleclaim from me so nope. I mostly want Kita to tell me I figured out his role even though I had never even heard of Chrono Trigger until this thread.
On November 26 2012 23:02 marvellosity wrote: I can see it happening, but on the balance of probability I would presume not. And that's what I usually work with.
so kita=/=scum, Kita=3p in your mind?
yeah, 3rd party is my best guess. And unlike some other people I don't throw it around lightly (too many 3rd party reads in this game). My last two 3rd party reads (rock band, liquid city) have been bang on.
you were scum in LC but you were magical town jailer of doom in Rockband so I'll accept that.
Kita: name claim please?
What do you feel Kita's claim will do for town at the moment?
PS. What changed all of a sudden that you are here to micromanage the game (your normal playstyle)?
I'm pulling an all nighter to write a 15 page term paper and I like mafia more than term paper.
see above for what I want from Kita's name claim. It isn't about benefit to town. I just wanna be right.
On November 26 2012 23:28 Djodref wrote: Ok guys, just a quick comment regarding the last developments of the thread, I find that Prome is getting way too much heat for the all the role-related stuff. Arguments like "your role is imb4 for town, you must be scum" are wrong, just plain wrong. Never trust Grey, right ? Moreover, the events corroborate the story. So I don't see why we should doubt this at this point.
Regarding Acro, I personally think that he is taking too much heat, even if not wanting to be in the party seems suspicious at first sight. I would say it's role or ability related (his own ability or targeted by another player). And like, there are players whose behavior is not acceptable at all.
For example, let's say that Toad, VE, Adam and S&B are the mafia players left. They would have nothing do to and could just watch the town atmosphere rotten. There are too many damn lurkers and I hate this because we have nothing for or against them !
Anyway, I have decided to step up and I'm going to officially announce that I'm going to inflict some damage tonight, and it's going to be one player among iamp, S&B, VE and Adam. I have not been using this since the beginning of this game so it's gonna hurt. Be warned.
I would like anyone who is pissed off by their attitude (seriously Adam, you and your "I'm lurking and I assume" attitude, I hope that you are going to die tonight), to join me and to inflict some damage on these players. I'm on this for real and I would guess that some other players would have no problem to join me as well Any ability you have to pressure the fucking lurkers (ie not using against the mafia), just use it against them, for the future sake of the town and also to teach them how to play.
Who is in ?
yeah I hate lurkers and killing them over confirmed mafia is good play.../sarcasm Djo: you aren't an idiot, don't play like one. A vig shot on a confirmed scum player is great that means to lynch the scummy lurkers we'll need a discussion and cases an no god damn sheep votes.
On November 26 2012 23:00 Oatsmaster wrote: if 3 of them are scum, who credible is gonna push their cases for them? No one wins if no one votes for them beside themselves. Im just sad that my initial read on Toad was wrong
Theoretically, the more of them that run the higher chances townies will pick one of them up to be elected.
And Syllo. I can also write 4 names and point fingers while conveniently claiming that I can change any name anytime I want because I haven't read the thread. If you're going to show up then do it right or don't bother.
I actually agree with this. At the moment I trust my judgement over everyone else's including syllo, as he's gone all conspiracy on us.
to confirm: you still think Syllo is town, right? Just crazy?
On November 26 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote: I've very strong reasons for considering Prom mafia, so how about directing your damage that way. Also you are just plain wrong in saying that whether his role seems ridiculous or not is irrelevant, just like you were yesterday when you were telling everyone how wrong they were about sandroba.
If you are town, how about not arguing against me every single day
If you are town, how about not being a fucking idiot. You don't have strong reasons or you would make a case instead of having feelings.
yeah, okay, I'm tired and being more of an asshole than I need to be. I'll leave this in the capable hands of literally everyone who isn't Syllo and I'll see ya'll in a few hours.
I'm writing this post in the hour of deadtime, I'll post it as soon as the cycle begins.
I used my aforementioned ability on a player I have a town read on. I would like all roleblocks to be claimed before I announce who my target was so that the scum do not know who I used my ability on and are forced to claim their roleblocks in case someone else blocked them. never mind, i was RB'd I also took 25 damage.
Toad, based on his voting and vanishing, is claiming scum. There should be no debate about what might happen when he flips town as there is no chance a town Toad would play like this. I imagine that after the redcheck on toad scum bussed the shit out of him knowing it was true. Now, since TC claims that hopeless and Acro are of different alignments I've gone back and forth; Acro has played the much townier game while Hope has played the much scummier one. My problem is that I would expect that result from Town Acro/scum Hope or from Scum Acro/Town Hope. Acro has hinted at a crazy connection theory about Toad's role. No matter what Toad ends up flipping I want to hear this theory as it should give some insight into how Acro is thinking.
Djo, I hope you get roleblocked by scum tonight. I also think you are playing in an unnecessarily crazy way. Make your cases, use your abilities and tone it down. I ask you not to lie about your role. You don't need to tell us about it either but don't fake claim.
Kita: ha! I figured out the games. Do you think this was a game mechanic which was always going to target your character or do you think that this character has targeted you two nights in a row?
VE: I hope you are here after deadline and can play the game like a real person. I really like reading your games usually and I was pretty pleased to see you hop into this one. I'm not as pleased anymore. Can you provide any form of anything for town? Reads/thoughts/actions/those pictures we were promised in LC
Syllo: you keep popping into the thread to say that you have really good reasons for thinking I'm scum, not commenting on anything else, contradicting yourself and vanishing. Stop doing that. I don't have the town cred to fight you but based on your suspicions I'll probably be flipped before you so you better have some damn good reasons for being an idiot or everyone will know that you are scum. I've been thinking about your claimed damage n1, everyone else will have to decide after I flip if mafia kp actually could get through my ability. I now think that you probably fake claimed the damage.
On November 27 2012 09:19 TheChronicler wrote: Ok who gets the reward, party leader or the entire team. I thought it was the whole team?
If it's just party lead we select a party lead from the winning team and we should have 4/4 team that has already won us an event, right? It's just 1/2 of the previous team, and we can take people from the original team as well. How can we lose?
the party leader gets the reward (from what Syllo said). Do you think that taking Kier makes sense? We've, presumably, had bonuses every day because of Frog/Robo but would not have those in the end of time.
Hope: my role pm says that if someone targets the player whom I targeted that first player will be roleblocked. I'm not sure about 'everyone takes ten damage' I just asked and it does not block mafia kp.
On November 27 2012 09:33 Keirathi wrote: It doesn't really matter to me, either. But, since we can have a full team of people that are confirmed successful parties, I'll say that unless I get invited to parties, I am nothing more than a VT. I get 0 abilities to use without being included.
are your abilities worth your low modifier? Objectively and not "oh man look at this cool thing I can do"
On November 27 2012 09:33 Keirathi wrote: It doesn't really matter to me, either. But, since we can have a full team of people that are confirmed successful parties, I'll say that unless I get invited to parties, I am nothing more than a VT. I get 0 abilities to use without being included.
are your abilities worth your low modifier? Objectively and not "oh man look at this cool thing I can do"
Some are. If I was worried about the party selection, it would probably be best to leave me out of the party. But we have 5 people who have been in successful parties, including a party that I was in specifically. We could take the exact 4 people today as we had day 1, if we really wanted to. I don't see any reason to believe that that party wouldn't be successful today, when it was on day 1.
So, I don't see much reason not to include me.
My reason for not wanting to do that, silly though it seems, is never trust GreYMisT. I think he'd have some way to force us not to use the same party and keep winning with it every time. Because otherwise mafia has to kill party members and can't focus on good players who aren't in the party/claimed roles they want to eliminate/their SK read
Another reason I think Dieno makes more sense if there are rewards based on the player and not which quest they lead to victory he will get the masamune.
On November 27 2012 10:06 Hapahauli wrote: I would like to run for party leader
My party will be Dienosaur, Kei, and either Chronicler or Acro If you for whatever reason do not feel safe with Chronicler/Acro, I can add Oatsmaster in that slot.
Why you can trust me I think the parties I proposed above are as near confirmed town as we can get in this situation. Given this player pool, you can trust me. Why? Because if we failed the mission, I would be holding a neon-sign saying "LYNCH ME." This is suicidal for me to do as scum.
I see no reason to put 2 non successful party members in the party today (You, and Chronicler/Acro). And, you couldn't replace Acro/Chronicler with Oats. The only possible way you could replace them would be with syllo.
Oh I totes confused names for some reason. Yes Syllo instead of Chronicler/Acro.
Whaddya think? I'm in a position where I'm not under suspicion, and I (as hypothetical scum) would only have everything to lose by presenting myself like this.
you have nothing to lose at all. Note how Toad confirmed himself as scum and is still around.
On November 27 2012 10:06 Hapahauli wrote: I would like to run for party leader
My party will be Dienosaur, Kei, and either Chronicler or Acro If you for whatever reason do not feel safe with Chronicler/Acro, I can add Oatsmaster in that slot.
Why you can trust me I think the parties I proposed above are as near confirmed town as we can get in this situation. Given this player pool, you can trust me. Why? Because if we failed the mission, I would be holding a neon-sign saying "LYNCH ME." This is suicidal for me to do as scum.
I see no reason to put 2 non successful party members in the party today (You, and Chronicler/Acro). And, you couldn't replace Acro/Chronicler with Oats. The only possible way you could replace them would be with syllo.
Oh I totes confused names for some reason. Yes Syllo instead of Chronicler/Acro.
Whaddya think? I'm in a position where I'm not under suspicion, and I (as hypothetical scum) would only have everything to lose by presenting myself like this.
you have nothing to lose at all. Note how Toad confirmed himself as scum and is still around.
NO ONE VOTE TOAD!
Sure I would. A team of Syllo, Dieno, Kei would be basically confirmed town. If we failed the mission with me as leader, I'd be immediately outing myself as scum.
I'm only doing this because I indeed have nothing to lose since I'm town.
buddy, being confirmed scum doesn't hurt you. look at Toad.
On November 27 2012 10:06 Hapahauli wrote: I would like to run for party leader
My party will be Dienosaur, Kei, and either Chronicler or Acro If you for whatever reason do not feel safe with Chronicler/Acro, I can add Oatsmaster in that slot.
Why you can trust me I think the parties I proposed above are as near confirmed town as we can get in this situation. Given this player pool, you can trust me. Why? Because if we failed the mission, I would be holding a neon-sign saying "LYNCH ME." This is suicidal for me to do as scum.
I see no reason to put 2 non successful party members in the party today (You, and Chronicler/Acro). And, you couldn't replace Acro/Chronicler with Oats. The only possible way you could replace them would be with syllo.
Oh I totes confused names for some reason. Yes Syllo instead of Chronicler/Acro.
Whaddya think? I'm in a position where I'm not under suspicion, and I (as hypothetical scum) would only have everything to lose by presenting myself like this.
you have nothing to lose at all. Note how Toad confirmed himself as scum and is still around.
NO ONE VOTE TOAD!
I want to vote Toad purely out of spite. No one is confirmed anything except for marv and kush.
Hey Toad, you still need a vote to prevent damage?
are you fucking retarded? Toad doesn't ninja vote with a dumb face if he is town.
On November 27 2012 09:32 Hopeless1der wrote: TC has claimed Acro and I are opposite alignments. AT LEAST one of them is scum to me. I think its more likely to be Acro. I know we don't want to lose the event and that I'm probably considered more likely to be scum than TC or Acro, but I'd like to be on the party for the sake of "proving" I'm town.
Dafuq?
Like seriously. DAFUQ? I cannot get my head around how mindblowingly stupid this post is.
1. OPPOSITE alignment. Unless you have reason to believe there are 2 scumteams, that means 1 of us is town, the other scum OR 1 of us is town, the other 3rd party, OR 1 of us is scum and the other 3rd party. It *might* be possible for 2 third parties to be considered "opposite alignment". No clue on the specifics there. So no, there is AT MOST 1 scum between you and me. For the record, that scum is you.
2. You think? Really? I KNOW I'm not scum. I don't have to "think that it may perhaps be slightly more likely that I am not scum", because I fucking know it. This overly cautious phrasing is you claiming scum, because you cannot figure out a town mindset.
3. Yeah, trolololol. Lets fail the event, because Hopeless1derp wants to "prove" he's town. Once again, thinking like a townie? Failed. Miserably I might add.
Verdict: scum
PS. The failure to think like a townie is what I caught this guy on in Acme, so it even fits his meta.
I know I'm town. I'm only proving it to the rest of you. You're a dead man upon my flip, as I'm sure you're aware.
What do you think about the possibility of one of you being framed, or even the possibility for TheChronicler to lie ?
it is physically impossible for all three of TC, Acro and Hope to be town. TC says that he is town and one of Acro/Hope is scum. Acro has a check witch confirms another of TC's checks so for him TC and Acro must be town while Hope must be scum. For Hope he must be town and either TC is a liar, and therefore scum, or Acro is scum.
the above isn't very clear but three hypothetical situations from each view point:
Acro: I have a red check which confirms TC's other check so he is the parity cop and Hopeless is a different alignment than I am.
TC: I have a check which says that one of Acro or Hopeless is scum.
Hopeless: TC claims to have a parity check on me and Acro if TC is town that must mean that Acro is scum. If his check is a lie TC is setting up a mislynch on either of us followed by the other.
As to why Dieno should still be leader, I am not the only protective role in the game. We can make sure that he is protected/healed and gets his item. I'd like some confirmation form Syllo/Oats that the item is chactar based but there is a good chance in my mind for that to be the case. Also: do not vote someone unconfirmed by past events in as party leader, that is just dumb, if it is going to succeed no need to give the reward to the guy we're least sure of.
On November 27 2012 10:55 TheChronicler wrote: I'm going to claim my last night action since it's relevant and why I feel I shouldn't be party leader, but should be on the team.
100 gold Funnel cake You target a player. Places a 100 damage shield on target player (stays on them). You take 100 damage.
Night Results You used Funnel cake!
You took 150 damage!
so, you bodygaurded someone for 100 hp and that means you should be on the team?
also you do know that it is against the rules to quote any pm you get from the hosts right? Don't do that.
On November 27 2012 10:57 Hapahauli wrote: Will players who did not vote get modkilled and/or replaced (like VE)?
he voted and posted, you haven't been reading the thread (also obvious in your mixing up names event). This is not your town play. You are not town. You should not be a member of this party.
On November 27 2012 09:32 Hopeless1der wrote: TC has claimed Acro and I are opposite alignments. AT LEAST one of them is scum to me. I think its more likely to be Acro. I know we don't want to lose the event and that I'm probably considered more likely to be scum than TC or Acro, but I'd like to be on the party for the sake of "proving" I'm town.
Dafuq?
Like seriously. DAFUQ? I cannot get my head around how mindblowingly stupid this post is.
1. OPPOSITE alignment. Unless you have reason to believe there are 2 scumteams, that means 1 of us is town, the other scum OR 1 of us is town, the other 3rd party, OR 1 of us is scum and the other 3rd party. It *might* be possible for 2 third parties to be considered "opposite alignment". No clue on the specifics there. So no, there is AT MOST 1 scum between you and me. For the record, that scum is you.
2. You think? Really? I KNOW I'm not scum. I don't have to "think that it may perhaps be slightly more likely that I am not scum", because I fucking know it. This overly cautious phrasing is you claiming scum, because you cannot figure out a town mindset.
3. Yeah, trolololol. Lets fail the event, because Hopeless1derp wants to "prove" he's town. Once again, thinking like a townie? Failed. Miserably I might add.
Verdict: scum
PS. The failure to think like a townie is what I caught this guy on in Acme, so it even fits his meta.
I know I'm town. I'm only proving it to the rest of you. You're a dead man upon my flip, as I'm sure you're aware.
What do you think about the possibility of one of you being framed, or even the possibility for TheChronicler to lie ?
it is physically impossible for all three of TC, Acro and Hope to be town. TC says that he is town and one of Acro/Hope is scum. Acro has a check witch confirms another of TC's checks so for him TC and Acro must be town while Hope must be scum. For Hope he must be town and either TC is a liar, and therefore scum, or Acro is scum.
What about frames ?
true enough, possible but unlikely. LC, never forget.
On November 27 2012 10:57 Hapahauli wrote: Will players who did not vote get modkilled and/or replaced (like VE)?
he voted and posted, you haven't been reading the thread (also obvious in your mixing up names event). This is not your town play. You are not town. You should not be a member of this party.
Oh did he? I must have completely missed him then.
But if you're going to call me scum, put up or shut up. I've been dealing with these passive accusations by you the entire game and they're getting old real fast.
it isn't a case. It is: you are better than this. This is not your town play. You have been in and out, not laying heavy pressure on people, not trying to be the guy who takes control and skating by. These accusations aren't passive your play does not match your town play. It doesn't match your scum play either but after mario I assume you've been working on that.
I know that you are too far from your townie self for me to trust you. It isn't just the misreading/missing that I don't like. You are a guy who gets his reads from putting pressure on people which you have not done this game.
Also: I've been hiding this thought and accusing you since d1?
Kita: I'd love to hear the results of your investigation.
On November 27 2012 10:57 Hapahauli wrote: Will players who did not vote get modkilled and/or replaced (like VE)?
he voted and posted, you haven't been reading the thread (also obvious in your mixing up names event). This is not your town play. You are not town. You should not be a member of this party.
Oh did he? I must have completely missed him then.
But if you're going to call me scum, put up or shut up. I've been dealing with these passive accusations by you the entire game and they're getting old real fast.
it isn't a case. It is: you are better than this. This is not your town play. You have been in and out, not laying heavy pressure on people, not trying to be the guy who takes control and skating by. These accusations aren't passive your play does not match your town play. It doesn't match your scum play either but after mario I assume you've been working on that.
Oh shut the fuck up Prom. Do you have a case or will you keep up with this OMGUS stuff? Hell I misread stuff as town all the time, and apparently my play is not "good enough" simply because I missed VE's silent vote on Oats in the voting thread.
So tell me - apparently you've been hiding this secret thought that I've been scum, yet you've never made a case on me, and even agreed with my case on Hopeless less than 24 hours ago. Describe to me how that's a town thought process.
Just to pile a few more things onto Prome:
You were literally the only person in the game still attacking him, even while you weren't even on his public scumdar. How do you explain your accusations towards Marv on d2?
is all of that directed at me and about Marv? I was still attacking marv because I was not convinced he was town. I was wrong. Not that this should sway you but I don't attack the strongest town players who have more town cred than I do as scum, I learned my lesson from my newbie game with Hapa.
On November 27 2012 11:14 Hapahauli wrote: Ya know what fuck this, I'm going to pull out every quote you have on me from your filter. The shit you're pulling right now is absolute bullcrap from a town perspective.
ew Oats. I get not wanting TC. But you prefer Hapa? Really? I guess I actually need to make a case on him if you think that taking him along is a good idea.
On November 27 2012 11:35 Promethelax wrote: also a top scum read is different than totally my top scum read this guy 100%. I think you understand what an indefinite article is.
I was your TOP SCUMREAD.
That's a pretty fucking significant statement. So you're telling me you never bothered to pursue or push your "TOP SCUMREAD" for TWO DAYS?
Yeah ok buddy.
you were a top scum read. Why would I bother to push my read on you as scummy, you were scummy and I could do nothing about it. Until you started pushing yourself as a leader (again) when I brought that back up because you should not be leader and, were it up to me, you'd also not be in the party.
No one who is new to the party should be the leader. That is fucking dumb. We have guys who have been partially confirmed by the game mechanics and we have to choose someone to receive a reward which helps town, do we set one of the partially confirmed guys up to take it or do we give it to the other guy who really wants to be a leader?
My read didn't matter. You were scummy and I did not use my ability to protect you. Now, when you tried to put yourself in a party I opposed you. Similar to when, in a normal game, we would propose lynch candidates in this game we oppose quest members. I oppose you for quest member.
When we had a chance to lynch I was more confidant in Sand being scum than you being scum.
Your insistence that scum would not want to push themselves onto the party because 1 for 1 is dumb and you know it.
re-reading your filter I don't think I can make a strong case on you Hapa. The thing is I also can't make a strong town case for you. I'm battling my usual Hapa=scum mentality but I can't decide which way I've erred. Either way you are not my top scum read right now. Toad is scum. After Toad there are a few people I would am looking at: you, Syllo, Zbo and the TC/Hope/Acro triangle.
well now that I go look at it objectively yes. Through the whole game I've felt that he was scummy. There are a few things I can point out and say they are super scummy (trying to take leader position over 'confirmed' town) but there are a few that I can point to and go 'oooooooooooh so townie' (opposition to Toad early).
Now I'm null, or go back and forth wanting to hang him and hug him my heart and my head can't agree, but want to look deeper into him after some more flips give me some context.
On November 27 2012 12:08 Promethelax wrote: My read didn't matter. You were scummy and I did not use my ability to protect you. Now, when you tried to put yourself in a party I opposed you. Similar to when, in a normal game, we would propose lynch candidates in this game we oppose quest members. I oppose you for quest member.
When we had a chance to lynch I was more confidant in Sand being scum than you being scum.
Your insistence that scum would not want to push themselves onto the party because 1 for 1 is dumb and you know it.
re-reading your filter I don't think I can make a strong case on you Hapa. The thing is I also can't make a strong town case for you. I'm battling my usual Hapa=scum mentality but I can't decide which way I've erred. Either way you are not my top scum read right now. Toad is scum. After Toad there are a few people I would am looking at: you, Syllo, Zbo and the TC/Hope/Acro triangle.
ROFL wow. You push me a scummy and not-town the entire game, and then the second I confront you to come up with acutal analysis, you completely change your mind and cop out.
look, if I was scum I'd cherry pick your filter and build a damn good case. I'm giving you my honest read. Which is: confused.
I am not building one because the one I made didn't convince me. there are things in your favour and things that point to you being scum. I am not going to make a case that I'm not convinced of (though I tried to in ACME) my gut read on you is anti-town and there are things to back that up. My case comes out null though and therefore I am not going to push you.
Do you really think that I am such a bad scum player that when pressured I would make no case? Go look at XIX, I can make one hell of a convincing case as scum. There is nothing to be gained by not making one if I am scum.
On November 27 2012 12:32 Promethelax wrote: watch out Kier, you've been passively accusing him all game. That probably makes you scum and stuff.
If he'd been doing it for 12 pages, and called me his top scumread w/out making a case, I'd agree.
man, definite article and indefinite article mean totally different things. You were one of my top scum reads (ergo: "a top scumread). Looking back through your filter instead of looking at how your play feels I have more of a null read on you. As I mentioned there are good reasons to point to your scumminess and good reasons which point towards your townieness.
On November 27 2012 12:13 Promethelax wrote: well now that I go look at it objectively yes. Through the whole game I've felt that he was scummy. There are a few things I can point out and say they are super scummy (trying to take leader position over 'confirmed' town) but there are a few that I can point to and go 'oooooooooooh so townie' (opposition to Toad early).
Now I'm null, or go back and forth wanting to hang him and hug him my heart and my head can't agree, but want to look deeper into him after some more flips give me some context.
@Prom
Trying to take the leader position over a "confirmed" town is not super scummy at all. The "confirmed" town is never 100% confirmed. The only thing town players know are their own alignment so it's natural for them to propose themselves as a party leader. I trust myself more than anyone esle here. The fact you consider this a super scummy lead me to think that you didn't think this candidature issue with a town mentality. Also, even if you were confidant than sandro was scum during our second cycle, nothing was preventing you from building a case and put some heavy pressure on Hapa, something you didn't do.
I disagree with you totally. Wanting it and thinking that others should vote you aren't the same. I want to be in the party. I know it won't happen so I support the guy who I think should be and detract from the guy who shouldn't.
On November 27 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote: Wait, Prom now says his ability only roleblocks the first person who targets the player he targets and it doesn't block mafia KP?
just popping in but no. It roleblocks everyone who targets my target and it does not block mafia kp. The confusion you are having is when I used 'first' to differentiate the target from the targeter. My ability is used on one dude. All the other dudes who target that dude get RB'd. Factional kp can still target that dude. Sorry for the confusion.
umm...Djo, please, let me defend myself. I have that ability and am quite willing to keep answering Syllo and Hapa's bullshit. Though Hapa at least has a case which seems to be based on thinking.
Please remove Djo from the party. I do not trust him and neither should you. He is defending one of the guys with the most pressure on him (me) and answering for me. The only reason for this is to gain town cred. Kier has a town read on me which he explains the reasoning for. Djo has an "I am promethelax" read on himself. He has been hard defending me this whole time based on my claimed actions and the fact that they makes sense. No idea why he does this but it reads as a sucm attempt to gain credit with town while leaving himself open for a switch by not looking at my play.
Honestly I would love being flipped at this point, people seem to be pretty caught up in how scummy I am and having me out of the picture might allow some people (*Cough Syllo) to take their heads out of their asses. Eh, medics: do not protect me. I can't be here in a LYLO situation as town will not trust me. Allow me to use my powers and do my thing while I live but if mafia / town wants to kill me we'll be in a better spot with Syllo being forced to do something instead of just tunneling me.
how does this sound? Don't RB me and I'll full claim in my first post of next cycle. That way scum can't know what to expect and you'll be able to wifom over what role GreYMisT would or would not put int the game.
right, good good. Now explain why it benefits town for me to claim. don't tell me you want to know my role just because you want to. I think you summed it up pretty well, I am refusing to provide the information you require. But not information that town requires.
On November 21 2012 12:53 Clarity_nl wrote: Sharing is caring?
Sharing is great when votes are made, It is early in the day and allowing everyone to continue to play without knowledge of each others town reads is probably for the best. No need for scum to get a chance to plant seeds of doubt on our town reads or to keep working on rowing themselves as townies if we have green reads on them right now.
You'll know my town read when I am confidant enough in it to place a vote. I'd like to learn Acro's at the same time.
plant seeds, growing and green. because I am a plant woman.
On November 24 2012 15:21 Promethelax wrote: Hey all, just checked the day post and this page, since the mission was successful and I'm pretty sure one or the other of Sand/Syllo is scum Vote ## Sand, mission success=Town Syllo (According to Ockham's laser) I'm here and catching up (a million posts for me to read...). I'm all old and shit now.
Oats: if Syllo had not been on the mission d1 yes, I would have a huge scum read on him for his play. As it is I know that the razor of truth suggests town but there are some contradictions in his play (saying that people who go on successful quests should not be considered confirmed town/calling himself confirmed town for being on a successful quest)and the general tunnelness of his attacks on me.
Syllo: why did you not RB/damage someone d1? You claim to have a RB/Track ability and a damaging ability and that you used them in the same night (something I believe) so why didn't you use them n1? (as evidenced by only my roleblocks going through).
On November 27 2012 17:40 Promethelax wrote: Oats: if Syllo had not been on the mission d1 yes, I would have a huge scum read on him for his play. As it is I know that the razor of truth suggests town but there are some contradictions in his play (saying that people who go on successful quests should not be considered confirmed town/calling himself confirmed town for being on a successful quest)and the general tunnelness of his attacks on me.
Syllo: why did you not RB/damage someone d1? You claim to have a RB/Track ability and a damaging ability and that you used them in the same night (something I believe) so why didn't you use them n1? (as evidenced by only my roleblocks going through).
OH! That's probably what syllo's problem is. He rb'd sandroba night 1. It all makes sense now.
oh, okay, that actually totally makes sense. I hadn't thought of that. And yeah if he does 75 damage that would make sense too as most people seem to hit for 50 and sand claimed 125.
Dammit Syllo: I was about to accept that you had a good reason for your crazy tunneling which I could understand and we'd reconcile and wander off into the sunset holding hands or whatever. Now I'm back to thinking that you are crazy.
If I full claim theoretically Syllo will back off and allow me to fully protect dieno from anything coming at him this cycle just as I intended to last cycle. I want dieno as the leader, Oats has confirmed that the reward was role based (I assume since he agreed with me that Deino would get Masamune), Syllo would you confirm/deny this as well please.
On November 27 2012 17:45 Oatsmaster wrote: ITEMS MY BOY, ITEMS. Other than the fact that Djo defended you, which I think its his meta, is there anything else that makes you think he is scum? I think that Dien should be leader at least to see if he gets his sword back+if all town's healing is on him, he probably wont die
You sure about that? Keep in mind he's heavily damaged, and Marv's reduce damage by half ability is gone. That's pretty huge...
assuming Syllo isn't lying there are still protective roles since I only took 25 damage last night.
On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O
Useless. Don't post like this.
On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.
Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa.
----------------------------------------------
I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses.
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
What in the actual fuck. Sure it's information but it's information impossible to decipher. Odds are you'll hit a scum somewhere in your massive pit of chaos but how will you tell the difference between him and the townie who just happened to get it wrong.
Scum will have to choose another person or risk showing their hand and causing the event to fail. Town can freely choose themselves since they know they'll only help with the event.
Doesn't seem chaotic to me. Why is it seeming chaotic to you?
This is fucking stupid. You are aware of this right? Everyone can and should pick themselves. Town know 100% that they are town and scum know that town 100% know themselves to be town so choosing anyone but themselves is butt fuck backwards. This explanation is well past pants on head.
Marv: while Hapa is a cute little hedgehog he is usually a responsive one. Not getting a scum read from his behavior but I am uncomfortable with him not explaining himself and getting defensive instead.
Why hedgehog? It is not an idiom I am familiar with (such as puppy). I thought this was a crumb for something.
A hedgehog because he was being so prickly. Defensive and a little bit smelly.
Okay, I've been thinking about this for the last few hours. I think I'll claim fully. I doubt this will help you get a town read on me but here goes.
I am "The Zeal Plant Woman" my time is antiquity. I have two active abilities
1) has been described over and over and over, I plant a seed on someone which, if it goes undisturbed for a full cycle it grows into a 200hp shield on the targeted player. If it is disturbed by any other player or players using their abilities on the target it role blocks all players who targeted my target. This ability resolves before other abilities so Sand's frame bus did not work. I can only have one seed planted per night, so if one already exists I cannot plant another until it either grows into a shield or is destroyed.
2) I have an ability which targets a single player and makes all actions done to either of us split evenly between us.
I have a passive mad hatter ability which does damage to a target of my choice when I die. This is part of the reason I asked to be flipped.
My night one action was using the first ability on Syllo On night two I was going to seed Dieno but was too late sending in my actions night three I tried to seed Dieno again but was roleblocked by Syllo. I also took 25 damage (meaning someone protected me for at least 50 HP according to Sylo).
I plan on targeting a member of the party or the party leader with my first ability tonight. I will not reveal my target so that mafia is forced to claim their roleblocks.
On November 28 2012 05:47 Dienosore wrote: Are you not scared of getting roleblocked yourself, especially now after that silly claim?
my options were to be RB'd every day by Syllo or claim and be RB'd every day by scum. I much prefer that the RB on me comes form confirmed scum. I assume that all of my active abilities will be RB'd for the rest of this game, yes.
On November 28 2012 05:46 Promethelax wrote: I plan on targeting a member of the party or the party leader with my first ability tonight. I will not reveal my target so that mafia is forced to claim their roleblocks.
Why does this force mafia to claim roleblocks?
I am not the only player who roleblocks (as evidenced by Risk gettin RB'd n2) this means that if anyone does not claim RB but were roleblocked by not me we will know that they are scum because the only reason to not claim a rb is to hide the target of their night ability.
On November 28 2012 06:09 Dienosore wrote: Fuck, I keep forgetting Oats can't be in it... I remember now that I said TheChronicler earlier, but honestly I'm open to all suggestions.
well stop being open to suggestions. Scum must have some influence on this game. Get your butt in gear and make one town read on your own.
see what clarity said. I could also use it to catch scum in a lie but using it on scum and knowing what happened to them because it happened to me too.
no, I place it and it has to sit for a full cycle. the cycle I place and and the next full cycle. It is specified in my role pm as the second night after being planted.
On November 28 2012 06:09 Dienosore wrote: Fuck, I keep forgetting Oats can't be in it... I remember now that I said TheChronicler earlier, but honestly I'm open to all suggestions.
well stop being open to suggestions. Scum must have some influence on this game. Get your butt in gear and make one town read on your own.
Unless I hear the majority of people telling me to change my vote, I have chosen TheChronicler based on my town read.
Why are you insisting that scum must have some influence? Are you perhaps threatened by the fact that you don't think your viewpoints aren't being heard or agreed on by the general populace? Enough so, that it makes you want to reinforce to the admitted new guy that scum are constantly lurking around, so you can verify to yourself that what you are doing is actually working?
You should really stop making your anger at me because I just wont fucking die so obvious.
I'm not even being angry bro. Not at you. But it is bad play as a town leader to ask the thread who to take with you.
On November 28 2012 17:39 syllogism wrote: Drazerk you are completely worthless as always
I've decided for now that Prom's claim is plausible, even if the timing, execution and subsequent behavior are suspicious. The initial claim was compeltely ridiculous and anyone who believed such a role is likely to be in the game is naive. What he claimed at first was a role that could not only make a person completely invulnerable, but it also functioned as a semi-watcher role; a player of any alignment that gets roleblocked wouldn't know the source and would be forced to claim. Now that we know roleblock does not prevent factional KP (and I consider it likely that there is non-role based mafia factional KP) and that he can't always use it every cycle, it is more believable. Moreover, the claim is a bit too complicated and too easily veribiable to be a sane mafia claim (his sanity is still in question, however).
The fact he initially refused to claim his other ability or flavor and decided to attack and suspect a near confirmed town still doesn't make sense. I was also suspicious of sandroba immediately confirming that he visited me, instead of showing skepticism towards Prom's claim.
yeah, if you want to know about how I safe claim as mafia I BC'd vet in my only late game scum game. I play it safe as scum. My role is a semi-watcher role and I plan on continuing to use it that way in the future.
Claiming the other abilities and flavour just didn't benefit town in any way. I don't see why you think that is wierd and I'll attack anyone who seems scummy to me. I don't really care how close to confirmed town you are; you aren't confirmed and I believe you would play this out exactly the same as scum. The fact that no one else agrees with my paranoia means that I don't have to care and neither do you since nothing will come of it.
On November 28 2012 10:23 goodkarma wrote: @VE:
How the hell was I supposed to know you were actually coming back to post more than one-liners? Saying and doing are two very different things...
Now that you've decided to show up, yeah. Let's not shoot you.
Cave and Adam are people I stand by vigi shooting though.
I don't care about the other stuff you were saying (though some of it was scummy) but this is scummy as shit. We should be shooting the confirmed scum since we have no idea about lynches. Kill Toad.
On November 29 2012 02:09 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma, please explain what is scummy on Adams and Caves behaviour?
In the case of CaveJohnson: This is a guy who has not contributed in this game, but maintains some degree of activity by prolifically spamming chat with substanceless one-liners. He fakeclaims abilities, and in general is anti-town. From my understanding from what others have said, he does this as both town and scum. I have in my notes two quotes that I found especially troubling:
"Syllo has taken himself out of the running and we should respect that.": Scum-motivated for obvious reasons.
"my intention is to survive to endgame...": Town should not be worried about this...
Regarding Adam: His posts come off as more "pro-town," but looking at what substance his comments bring the main thing I got was that he is pre-occupied tunneling Z-Boson for making a poor case on him. And from what I've seen his activity is not going to pick up ever. He is far in second place compared to CaveJohnson for a good vigi target, but still is in the back of my mind as a potential scum trying to blend in.
However, while we're on this topic it would be very helpful if Adam (or someone else) could provide some links to some of his games. I don't know Adam's meta, so having some insight into it could be helpful in getting a better read on him.
On Adam you can check the recently ended WLIIA mafia for his town meta.
You are pointing at two well known null players. Adam always lurks and Draz always always always does weird shit.
Why do you want our viggies not hitting confirmed scum?
On November 29 2012 02:45 Promethelax wrote: -sniped-
if we don't get a lynch though we need to start that focus fire earlier. How confidant are you that we will get a lynch? (hint: I'm not at all)
From the damage reports, I'm under the impression town has roughly 150 damage / turn at its disposal.
From the flips, however, 600 HP seems to be a reasonable assumption for the amount of HP Toad has. (Following the mechanics of the actual game, I'd say he can't have any more than 999.) As such, I'd expect it to take at least 3-4 turns to kill him. And I strongly believe we'll have a chance to lynch within 1-2 turns.
so what is mafia kp? Wanna share the things you know?
On November 29 2012 03:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Just know that scum killed marv in a single night when he had 550 hp.
Could have been third party too, but true enough. >550 is a safe bet.
On November 29 2012 03:43 CaveJohnson wrote: Lynching toad is a wasted cycle
Wasted cycle = horrific for town
Even in a game as crazy as this that is still the case
that is true as well. Though, if we get the chance to lynch, Toad needs to be chopped. (Toad: thanks for not pulling a Hapa/Marv from LC, you are winning the sportsmanship award).
Acro: do you really think votes from Toad's scum buddies would do him any good? That seems pretty illogical to me but I don't know GreY as well as some. I guess we'll see with the flip.
Iamp: you asked about Healing/Protecting party members. You should feel free to do so, my prot will be on one of them but there are others who will need to be saved. Additionally there are other townies who could need healing/protecting too.
I'm really worried about this new move from GK, his reads and stances are not consistent, as Adam pointed out just recently. I'll give him[GK] a filter dive tonight and see what I think more specifically though.
On November 29 2012 07:39 Acrofales wrote: I guess I can switch my vote to Dino. After all, all the townies are doing it. Maybe he'll even get Masamune.
##unvote ##vote Dienosore
Can you explain your motivation for doing this? Every party leader elected has had your vote, role related?
Dieno I hate you.
All roleblocks please claim.
Okay, so GK is probably scum though unfortunately Acro's presence in the party takes away the certainty we would have otherwise. I am, as I said earlier on a filter dive of GK. As it stands I think we need to lynch Toad no matter how much we hit him for already. Unless we can prove that someone else is 100% scum in which case we should lynch them and NK Toad.
[QUOTE]On November 29 2012 09:20 Clarity_nl wrote: [QUOTE]On November 29 2012 09:18 Promethelax wrote: [QUOTE]On November 29 2012 09:17 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah odds are GK is scum.
Acro do you know what kind of influence you have on mission success rates?[/QUOTE]
read the thread. Don't ask questions you don't need to ask. [/QUOTE]
I don't recall acro saying anything related to this but I guess..... fair enough
By the way, "hidden lynch" is code for "cba doing votecounts" isn't it?[/QUOTE]
It essentially means that there is a scum/3p (I guess it could be town but that seems unlikely) player with vote stealing/changing mechanic; or the game itself has some vote changing abilities. Having everyone vote Toad though makes this a much less painful option for town than it would normally be. We'll get the lynch we want, which is what is important, but probably won't get any info from it.
On November 29 2012 09:17 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah odds are GK is scum.
Acro do you know what kind of influence you have on mission success rates?
read the thread. Don't ask questions you don't need to ask.
I don't recall acro saying anything related to this but I guess..... fair enough
By the way, "hidden lynch" is code for "cba doing votecounts" isn't it?
It essentially means that there is a scum/3p (I guess it could be town but that seems unlikely) player with vote stealing/changing mechanic; or the game itself has some vote changing abilities. Having everyone vote Toad though makes this a much less painful option for town than it would normally be. We'll get the lynch we want, which is what is important, but probably won't get any info from it.
cocked that one up, how about now?
And yeah, Acro said that GreY refused to tell him what his impact would be but that it was a hidden modifier.
On November 29 2012 09:26 Dienosore wrote: I really am ashamed for not officially sending in the party, but at least Keir still made it in there some how. And now we have extra info about phagga and GK
Ty for the save, Djo. I still took a whopping 475 dmg though.
what did yo help us learn about phagga by making a huge mistake?
On November 29 2012 09:26 Dienosore wrote: I really am ashamed for not officially sending in the party, but at least Keir still made it in there some how. And now we have extra info about phagga and GK
Ty for the save, Djo. I still took a whopping 475 dmg though.
funny but not useful. Kita, ideas please.
How does this effect your reads on Dieno/Acro/GK/Kier?
Dieno: the answer to this tremendous fuck up is to 1) get over it and 2) play the game. You fucked up, now make up for it.
On November 29 2012 09:26 Dienosore wrote: I really am ashamed for not officially sending in the party, but at least Keir still made it in there some how. And now we have extra info about phagga and GK
Ty for the save, Djo. I still took a whopping 475 dmg though.
Today's objectives should be: Lynch the Toad. Come up with a consensus for the second most scummy player. Put 2-3 votes on our alternate in case there is a secret pardon in play. Sort through night actions to come up with the remaining mafia team by process of elimination. Organize our town night actions for once.
On November 29 2012 09:57 Promethelax wrote: How does this effect your reads on Dieno/Acro/GK/Kier?
Dieno is still my favorite of the remaining amphibians. Acro is still anti-town, even if you guys are buying into his friendly-pro-town survivor with a twist story. GK I haven't looked at in ages. I should look into this one. Kier was looking good enough prior to the selection, so a failed event isn't enough to change my mind, but I probably wouldn't want him in another party and will look at him when higher priority individuals are evaluated.
I'll see if I can come up with a short list of bad guys tomorrow. The biggest struggle we face right now is motivating players to produce valuable content, considering we haven't had to give a scum read that means much in 7 days.
I'm writing up a GK case as we speak and it is long and, I think convincing.
On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote: Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on?
Goodkarma: have you played any games since our Newbie Mini Misfortune?
Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who?
Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers.
Yes. I had much better games after that. I hope there's no hard feelings for that particular game, as I played scum about as terribly as I possibly could clamming up when really saying just about anything would have prevented my early lynch. My other two games:
In NMM XXIV: The hero that saved the town from a 5-3 MYLO to win the game. In LVII: Mafia suicide bomber. Could have played better but mafia got the win anyway. Rockband mini: I replaced out day one as scum. Never actually checked to see how it ended.
Who I would nominate (if not myself):
As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba.
Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv).
I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced.
Goodkarma for President:
As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.
Just wanted to highlight what is essentially GK's first post in this game, it supports Sandro while presenting himself as an alternate candidate. Weirdly runs against someone who he would include in his party which makes no sense from a townie perspective, does he think his reads are better than Sand's? So this, to me, is a point in the scummy direction. He wants to be leader over Sand but has a town read on Sand. I wasn't voting Sand because I did not have a town read on him but if I did think he was town I would want him to lead over me any day. Sand is one of the best players this forum has.
On November 21 2012 13:36 Hopeless1der wrote: Greetings all. You'll notice that we're currently in 600 AD Guardia. You're also playing a themed game hosted by none other than Greymist. Please keep that in mind. (Hi Mementoss, you're cool too).
Basic vote mechanics for this game seem to boil down to -identify town -vote town to lead the party -Profit -Kill Mafia/Lavos -More Profit
What are people's thoughts on claiming that their character belongs to the 600 AD era and selecting the leader based on that. (YOU ONLY CLAIM "600 AD") Possibly selecting the entire party from within the era, assuming enough of a pool emerges. I linked Chronopedia above in case anyone feels the need to check it out. ~17ish native characters from 600 AD.
I think our hidden numbers are influenced by the current era, and events can have varying degrees of success or failure depending on which specific players (not just town or scum) are in the party.
Come play the setup speculation game with me please!
No. Setup speculation is for chumps.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on who we should choose for a party leader and why.
Choose town. Win events. Kill Lavos. This has already been covered. I don't have any strong townreads yet. So in the meantime, I want to plant some ideas about how the setup works because you can bet your ass its going to matter.
Of course it will matter. But talking about how certain deliberately hidden variables could or could not work that are outside our control is a waste of time. The one thing we presently can control is who we choose for our party, and that's where are focus should be.
So please stop shitting up the thread advocating setup speculation.
says the guy talking about setup. Okay, saving this, if he goes back to set up it is just shitting up the thread.
On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Keir brings up a couple good points. Perhaps our host could explain?:
Are chosen party members kill-immune?
If not, what happens if scum kill a party member?
We don't even know anything about HOW the scum kills, other than it doesn't follow the traditional "1 KP = 1 dead". We have an HP value, and have no idea how much HP damage the scum can do in a single cycle, how they will do it, or who they can do it to.
But we have HP. Scum must be able to remove it somehow. And if we have let's say a small hidden value score lead over scum, it would be important to know if scum can or cannot off people in the party to tip the scales against us. Especially if a medic-type role exists for town.
I feel this is a very relevant and answerable question to ask the host. But I must agree with oats that outside of a response from him it's not a good use of our time to discuss further.
oh hey, look, more set up speculation. Alright. Reasonable, there were reasons for this. But besides set up all GK has talked to up to this point is being pro Sand / kinda pro me and advice for Djo and Dieno (who clearly needs some damn advice, like SUBMIT YOUR FUCKING PARTY YOU FOOL!)
The questions GK ask aren't very town oriented, scum needs to know how to fuck with the party and his questions to the mods are:
On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Keir brings up a couple good points. Perhaps our host could explain?:
Are chosen party members kill-immune?
If not, what happens if scum kill a party member?
"Hey guys: I know some townies might be kill immune, could I know who? Thanks lulz."
On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote: @Oats:
I suggested that if I am not elected Sandroba is my current alternative pick for party leader. That should say something about my current read on him. But I will briefly recap: His ideas for how to produce a successful town party are ones that I agree with. That others apparently are familiar with his meta, and that he is either a strong town or weak scum player is icing on the cake. That being said, before I would place a vote towards him I would need to know which party members he would choose and why.
-snippy-
So GK has 1) a town read on Sandro and 2) will not vote him unless he reveals his party. Know who he voted though?
On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
On November 23 2012 00:18 syllogism wrote: I can't explain it better than I have. It doesn't feel like he cares about figuring things out and there is no sense of urgency despite him being one of the most likely people to be elected. He has made no attempts at figuring out who mafia is and it seems to me he is hiding behind the fact he doesn't have to. There is being lazy and then there is just not caring. My other reasons rely on my knowledge of how he thinks and some of the things he has said feel off; can't elaborate more on that.
Yes, I might gain more votes by making my reads public. I would also gain more reads by pretending to be completely confident in my reads; I'm not. I have not finalized my team yet (right now I've 2 whom I'm likely to take and a few possibilities for the third) and may not finalize it until the end. An honest assessment as to why I'm not going to is a combination of considering it optimal play (if I get the votes), being lazy and because sometimes my town reads rely on things other players may find flimsy or the reasons are otherwise difficult to explain (tone, whether the person feels earnest).
If I were mafia, there would be absolutely no reason not to make the list of people I intend to pick public.
I question if this is in fact true. Being held accountable upfront for the people you choose is important, as is producing an open forum of discussion for others. Such discussion provides valuable information about others' thought processes that would otherwise be lost. Also, from a scum perspective, a blind ticket can sometimes be more appealing for people to get behind than a known ticket (And for this reason being secretive would be a good play as mafia.)... And yes, I'm droning, and, this certainly is obvious, yet it beared discussion due to how absurd the bolded portion of your quote is.
I honestly don't care if you find your reasoning for one or two members of your selected party could be flimsy to others. Give us a chance to stack up your chosen party against your reads. Pretty please.
As for what I plan to do:
I hereby concede my campaign. There did appear to be some going interest in it, and I will certainly take future note of it for the future. However, I will not have the appropriate time to gather the momentum I will need to come from behind, and it is important we consolidate our votes as the deadline approaches. I will be voting for syllogism. I am really displeased with his determination to keep his party secret, as I have already outlined. However, he is hands down the lesser of the three (fairly evenly distributed by votes) evils. Of Kita, Sandroba, and Syllo, I choose syllo. I would further recommend that in the interest of consolidation as soon as possible we bring it down to two people. Having three people stay in the running in the long term will be much easier for mafia to manipulate.
##Unvote
##Vote: Syllogism
GK votes for the lesser of three evils, a guy who is doing something he thinks is scummy. He votes that guy over his town read. Uh-huh...
On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.
I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader.
As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?
Here is one of the few posts that GK has addressing his thoughts on Sand before the vote. He is upset that Syllo would get veto privilages because he does not have a town read on Syllo, the gentleman who ended up with his vote. So what other reasons did GK have for not voting Sand?
On November 22 2012 12:11 goodkarma wrote: My current thoughts on party leader:
So... It would seem that syllo has yet to make any additional moves, and sandoba, while back, hasn't really made that much of an additional comment on his party he's taking with him.
Firstly, sandroba has now made it clear that he strongly believes syllo to be town. I do not have the "meta" read priveleges that he does, and as such, cannot make this read. Yet, at this point I would go so far as to say that sandroba has put so much faith into syllo that a vote for either is semi-interchangable. Between the two of them, I see one party leader ticket. I don't have presently a town read on syllo, and so am less comfortable voting for Sandroba than I previously was.
Sandroba, who was someone I was very excited about having as party leader with his solid early ideas for how to select his party, also has yet to provide some idea of who he's considering at present for his party. This is another point that makes me less comfortable voting Sandroba. I'm still leaning towards sandroba being town, but I question why it is he has become fairly quiet relative to the beginning of the game.
So, in Summary...:
While many here give Sandroba/Syllo respect for being a "vet," it's incredibly hard for me to sort through a sea of one-liners and go, "That guy is definitely town..." Actually, insert Marv's name here too as he's guiltiest of this...
-snippy- Mafia manipulation:
Many of you seem to fear that it will be super-easy for mafia to hide in a setup where they don't necessarily need to spend all that much time faking scumhunting. But when you blindly vote for one guy you are missing an amazing opportunity to spot them out. By voting for a known 4-person party (where the party leader presents his choices) you are doing a better job of forcing their hand. They will be trying to steer the vote towards selecting their own members, and their voting should reflect that.
As an added bonus, this allows you to spread your risk. You can determine if the choices of the party leader match up to your own, and at least to some degree, determine how likely it is that the party has a mafia member in it.
By voting for a singular leader, it's an all or nothing proposition. They get their candidate in, or they don't. Either way, we get far less information from that. We will not be able to narrow down what went wrong should things go wrong. Is it a scum party leader with questionable choices or a town party leader with questionable choices? The only way you'd know for sure is to lynch every party leader who fails his mission... This is a system I am wholeheartedly opposed to.
In Conclusion:
Nothing in this game is certain, but what I am certain of is that there's not a snowflake's prayer in hell I'm voting for either sandroba or syllo (or should I say sandollo?) until they provide more information on who they're bringing and why. I wasn't altogether serious about "running for office" before but I am now. I am unhappy with what I see and will be making a post outlining who I'll bring and why within the next couple hours.
Right, Sand and Syllo are too comfortable with each other. That leadership bid I made was a joke but it isn't a joke. Don't vote Sand or Syllo until they tell us who they are taking. I'm with him here. I get it. But his vote ends up on Syllo. And his proposed party from his new campaign? I present exibit a)
On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. I would like to take a few seconds to note that I was very disappointed my shortlist wasn't longer. Many people here have not taken the effort to establish themselves as town. I'm not by any means the perfect reader in this game, but by making a few more reads on who you feel are viable candidates many of you could have made it easier for me as I could have had more insight into your thought process.
I will not lie. None of these I have a "definitely town" read on. However, given the context of their play so far, I feel their play is more likely town-motivated than scum-motivated, and the best prospects for being town.
In no particular order:
1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route.
2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read.
3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform.
A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown.
I would not say these names are 100% rigid, but I would have to hear a really damn good argument for me to change this lineup. I look forward to hearing what all of you have to say.
Note that he would require a 'really good argument' to change any of these players. So he still has a town read on Sand.
On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma
If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro?
What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that.
I answered all of these questions if you were to actually take the time to read my filter... As for what I think of Sandroba currently, I can understand the selection of Kush, but I don't like it. If Kush is in fact telling the truth I find it hard to believe there are that many people lower than 30 HP in a game that has 999HP max (I know this is very speculative but still...). As such I would expect him to have a contingency plan if Kush were to die...
I readily admit that Sandroba may not be the best candidate as he's been playing. Since I nominated him, he's been extremely stingy with the details of who he plans on choosing and why.
Further I missed there was a role claim by Dien... And I will admit that by adopting a process of elimination-type process it is possible that I overlooked better qualified candidates that are possibly in the "semi-lurker" position. Prox especially comes to mind. But I would like to say that while this is definitely in part my fault it is additionally the fault of those people who have decided to sit back and let things play out without voicing their opinions. It has made it that much harder for me to find three strong candidates.
I will reassess my choices, and have a finalized list here in the next few hours. I'll try to touch up on the thread tomorrow as best I can, but will be rather time-limited.
Currently the two I object most to on the Kita ticket are Kita and Acros. Kita especially as he has done very little to even try to establish himself as town, and, as the leader of his ticket, that worries me. A lot...
So, firstly, no GK did not answer these questions in his filter. He Proposed that we shouldn't, as a town, put all ours eggs in the Sand/Syllo basket. But he puts Sand in his party. One basket. One government.
But now Sand 'might not be the best candidate' though nothing about who would be the best. If he is no longer the best candidate why is he still a top three town read? I dunno and I doubt GK has a reason either.
On November 22 2012 15:53 syllogism wrote: Right now I would say there is a >50% chance that sandroba is mafia. His interest in the game feels superficial and some of his posts feel off. For instance him saying that he is "torn" about clarity_nl as opposed to actually stating whether he now thinks it is more likely that he is town or mafia. His explanation as to why he thought clarity was mafia is also pretty weak by his standards. Pouncing with one-liners on weak stuff? That probably applies to many, many people in every single game.
Missed this discussion from syllogism on Sandro... He is no longer on my list. Oats is on both of our lists, and upon skimming his filter I found this:
On November 21 2012 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Dont guess Djo, how could you know how mafia KPs work in this setup.
Does scum have to send in actions before they know who the party leader is? or after the whole party is made?
I think you misunderstand me. My point is that we should focus on completing the tasks since that is the only way town gets an advantage. The best way to complete the tasks is the send the 4 towniest players
I know it's petty semantics, but since sending in actions is a matter-of-fact thing, I would expect a town to ask if actions were sent in before or after. Since it is a disadvantageous thing for scum if actions are sent in, asking if they have to be sent before party leaders are announced makes sense.
So What Now?:
Oats is definitely a bit of a try-hard newbie, and honestly that was part of what I felt was townie about him. The biggest issue, however, is that being a tryhard this game is pretty important for the scum wincon, and as such I would expect most scum to be active members (likely more active than town). Between this and that he was included on sandro's list, I am inclined to remove him as well for the time being. I'm not saying he's scum, but I was too eager to bring in people I saw as active and acting pro-town while he could just as easily be acting as scum in this way.
Oh wait? Does that mean that you are about-facing and saying Sandroba is scum?
Not necessarily. All I know is that there is enough doubt on him, and since I nominated him he has performed very poorly for town. In my opinon town has not done enough to differentiate itself from the scum and that is where my problem has been. These two are going to be replaced with your average town representatives, which at this point of the game I am confident is the semi-lurker demographic. It's not what I would have hoped for, but it looks to be the safest demographic to tap from, especially since more than half the current players reside there...
I can't snippy any of this, it matters. 1) Sand is no longer on his list 2) Oats is removed due to being related to Sand 3) but Sand isn't scum. I'll let GK tell you what to think about this himself:
On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote: @TheChronicle
You keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this:
At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt.
Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked?
@Z-BosoN
He has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected.
This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"?
Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together.
On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote: Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now...
Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo
On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote: Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up.
Plan:
On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:
On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O
Useless. Don't post like this.
On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.
Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa.
----------------------------------------------
I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses.
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads.
On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
Really, no contradiction? At all?
Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation.
Association based scum read on two unflipped players? Even a scrub like me knows that's sloppy play... -_-
So we have a strong town read turn into a null read and an association tell on another player. If Sand is not scum how is Oats scummy by association? I don't get it.
His new proposed team is Djo Phag and Dieno (based on RC)
He dropped a scum and a now 'confirmed' town from his list together. So who does he replace them with? A (now) 'confirmed' town and Phag. If GK is scum (something I am more and more sure of, than I think looking at Phag again might be worth while. Weee association.
That finishes cycle one-
in cycle two the first thing GK does is
On November 23 2012 18:47 goodkarma wrote: I am entirely opposed to troll(CaveJohnson) hunting at present. I am not as confident as some seem to be that, based off his current anti-town dialogue, he has demonstrated he in fact is mafia.
On the other hand, if Sandroba's meta (as stated by others here) is to be believed, he is a clear choice as a lynching candidate for today. He has gone into hardcore lurker mode, which normally is something I wouldn't consider a tell. However, as a player of his reputation that plays so well as town to disappear as he has, I deem voting to lynch him appropriate. I would like to hear what he has to say to explain his current complete lack of caring since very early this game. And until he does:
##Vote: Sandroba
based on unconfirmed meta. Remember that town read? Yeah, neither does GK.
On November 23 2012 21:51 sandroba wrote: Oh my it seems I'm the only person in the game that doesn't get to have a real life every so often. I spent the night at a girl's house ytd and only got home now. I thought I would give the thread a quick read before heading to bed (yes my sleep schedule is severely fucked up) and I see that suddenly I became the main wagon. Nice. Weekend is ahead and it will be extremelly busy and now I have to fight syllo induced mislynch just to prob face the same problem again the next day. Thx. I'll be here briefily if anyone want to interact, but I'm heading to bed. I took 125 dmg and got roleblocked.
By all means irl things happen. But that doesn't mean that your absence isn't scum-motivated... For what it's worth, though, lurker is not equal to scum, and my vote on you was more of a pressure vote. I can excuse you had irl things going on, but would certainly hope that you are more active for the remainder of the game. I would like to see these amazing scumhunting abilities that other players strongly believe you to be capable of.
a pressure vote. Pressure! He called some one "a clear choice as a lynching candidate for today." and referred to his vote o that player as a pressure vote. Okay. So who is GK lying to? Himself or town?
GK defends himself from pressure which Acro places on him y saying
On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote: For all those who are still distrustful of me:
You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then:
1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach...
2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice.
3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba.
4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome.
I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest.
You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_-
Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter.
You have a full-on town read of Sandro at the time you decide to run yourself (as evidenced by your very "GK for president" post. Syllo only came much later (I checked timestamps). I am having a lot of trouble understanding why you were "uncontent" sending Sandro at the time.
So the sequence of events went something like this:
discontent with lack of transparency in who candidates would choose to go with them-->seriously run for office (in part to show by example how others should run, showing others who they'd actually bring)
Upon reassessing my read on Sandro, I came to the realization that he was a poor choice, but the original intent in running was to get going the idea that the entire party should be known up-front.
Again, this should be clear from my filter...
as I think you've seen that is not what GK says. Here and now GK's insistence that he is a careful player who edits his posts over and over means that what he says is not a mistake. Which means the contradictions in his filter are not a townie being silly but a scum being scummy.
So, as this happens GK gives himself an out:
On November 24 2012 13:34 goodkarma wrote: I can understand the excuses that Sandroba has provided, but I find the complete lack of followup on who he would consider a prime scum suspect to be disturbing. It's as though he is holding back, maybe... because he's scum, and as scum making up even a half-baked scumread is hard for him. I would really like to see him take some initiative and actually help town out. He continues to fail to deliver in this department, which would leave me to believe that his complete apathy and lack of involvement in this game is indeed scum-driven.
I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. This only because I don't feel my scumread on Sandroba is strong enough without the reaffirmation. And yes, sheeping makes me a hypotwit...
I am going to now focus my attention on TheChronicler and Kitaman
He allows himself a way to vote away from Sand which is just a sheep vote. A pre-excused sheep vote. That is totally a thing townies + Show Spoiler +
On November 25 2012 04:41 Acrofales wrote: No clue why I addressed that to just Marv. He's currently the most vocal, but EVERYBODY should look at the absolute lack of any useful posts in Toad's filter.
I agree that Toad has been useless, but think in this context: It's four hours until lynch deadline... I am curious: Are you really that dissatisfied with the other lynch choices that you feel now is the time to form a new wagon?
We should be consolidating between two candidates, not making forming new bandwagons. That makes it that much easier for mafia to manipulate the outcome for plurality lynch (Obvious, right? I state the obvious because people keep trying stunts like this...)
and Toad (the confirmed scum) is useless. Distanced from but not calling scummy. Who could want to do that? Oh right, scum. but two seconds later:
On November 25 2012 04:53 goodkarma wrote: EBWOP#2:
I should add further that indeed Toad could be scum, but I don't get why your read on him would stronger than a scum read on Sandroba.
what changed? nothing. GK doesn't want you to lynch Toad but you could.
On November 25 2012 05:43 Clarity_nl wrote: @ goodkarma
If you think they're both equal but you voted for Sandro first and that's why you stay, consider that Toad has actually stayed active but produced just as much content as Toad.
This is a good point, but it's not like Sandro has been perma-afk or anything. He has been incredibly inactive, but when he has been here he has had nothing to contribute except in defense of himself. This has been brought up before, but it is the same kind of scumtell as you're using for the case against Toad.
I won't be upset if Toad is lynched. However, that syllo is on Sandro, and I know that syllo is town, is enough to tip the scales in favor of lynching sandro for me.
oh hey, now he wouldn't even be upset if Toad was lynched but sheeping is so easy. This is a double bus attempt. With two scum players up for the lynch GK has to choose one of them to go after and it seems that Sand is the obvious one since he has so many town votes on him. But GK also realizes that he cannot support Toad too much since he is also under fire. GK is clearly scum, town have scum reads that they want lynched GK has nothing.
On November 25 2012 05:56 Hapahauli wrote: Sandro looks to be heading to a modkill, and for those of you voting for him, it's worth it to consider another voting option as to not waste the lynch for today. Toad perhaps.
For what it's worth, I'll check back into this thread and change my vote to Toad if this indeed becomes the case.
he'll lynch Toad and Sand if that is what we need. He (and the rest of the scum team) know that Toad and Sand are liabilities. They know that Those two will not make it to endgame so they have to bus them early and bus them hard to have any chance of getting to the late game themselves.
Look at this distancing vote, look at it!
On November 25 2012 07:56 goodkarma wrote: Sandroba is likely going to be modkilled.
I'm changing my vote.
##Unvote ##Vote: Toad
tell me you don't think that is scum motivated. GK getting in early on a lynch that won't happen. Safe.
On November 25 2012 10:12 GreYMisT wrote: Everyone I am very sorry for this, It should have been included in the daypost but I rushed it. Luckily I caught it only an hour in and this shall be editied in.
In addition to the party only being able to contain half of the same players as the previous party, the same party leader may not be elected twice in a row.
This means syllogism is ineligible to be elected as leader. This was supposed to be explained via flavor but you know...
Again very sorry that this information was not presented to you guys immediately.
That makes things harder...
So, it should be a no-brainer to shoo in one of the people from the previous successful party.
I would rather not have dienosaur as party leader. Between Oats and Keir, I flipped a coin and it came up...
##Vote: Keirathi
But in all seriousness, Oats and Keir do not have Syllo-esque reads, and I believe it would be best if they have some guidance for who else they bring. Even if it's just Syllo telling one of them exactly what to do (In fact, I'd approve of this idea.).
scumtell. Doesn't care about the leader. Iamp, remember your IRC game with Marv/Thrawn/Kush etc. the one you don't want to talk about? Yeah I know you remember it. Now tell me you disagree with this read. Also: which of Kier and Oats claimed to have a low success modifier? Hmmm...right, Kier. Now I respect Kier's reads over Oats and that could be a reason to vote him but a coin flip is not.
On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote: [quote] If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss.
How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off.
So why do you think I said that, then?
do you know your success modifier?
Not specifically, but yes.
i dont understand
I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier.
Yes, but what question are you wanting me to answer?
My role pm specifically says something to the effect that any party I'm in has a lower chance of success.
Okay. I just wanted to be extra extra sure about this. In that case, if only 1/2 of the party can come from last time I would rather you were not in it.
##Unvote ##Vote: Oatsmaster
It's between Oats and dieno then...
I would propose Oats assume party leader and sheep syllo's choices.
Now, GK seems to have forgotten how he felt about Syllo in the early game. He is, retroactively, very pleased with voting Syllo. He wouldn't vote Djo (who he still has a town read on) because:
On November 26 2012 16:51 Oatsmaster wrote: so GK, your conclusion is that not wanting to be in the party is not a scumtell. RIGHT? Also that if we see someone pushing hard to be in the party, i/e Djo. We should be more suspicious of them
I'm saying that it's entirely plausible that scum is still pushing to be in the party even though it could be suicidal at this point long-term.
With Djo, he has pushed hard this cycle to be elected. As scum, I doubt that he could secure the mislynch as Acro might. He isn't a strong town read with people here (myself included), and as such I would think he would be worried about being spotted as the weak link in the team.
In other words, I would say the opposite with Djo. His pushing to be party leader is rather misguided and in my opinion not very pro-town given the strong alternatives right now. However, it isn't a scum tell. Given that his actions don't really make sense to me as scum, I would actually say it's a town tell.
And now Djo isn't a town read. Totally unexplained but no longer so town that you would bring him in your party. Great.
On November 26 2012 23:56 goodkarma wrote: -snips-
I would say that Toad is a low priority target, as in, please don't shoot him. From the two flips we've seen, and based off the abilities that have claimed that can do damage, there is no reason to think we could one-shot Toad. So targeting people we won't be able to get to lynch anytime soon is definitely a better option. -snips-
Don't shoot confirmed scum with your Vig abilities. Does anyone agree with this? It is scum as fuck. The idea of having damaging abilities and using them to flip lurkers when we have confirmed scum is terribad.
When GK is pushing a not Kier/Dieno leadership he says:
On November 27 2012 09:44 Promethelax wrote: Another reason I think Dieno makes more sense if there are rewards based on the player and not which quest they lead to victory he will get the masamune.
Unless Greymist chose to disregard Chrono Trigger's max HP (and I believe this to be unlikely), 999 is the most Dieno has.
Dieno has already taken in excess of 400 damage, and if he becomes party leader mafia will obviously target him. Given the amount of damage we've seen mafia is capable of, it is extremely likely that he would get killed in one night. Make Dieno party leader and even if he were to get the Masamune there is no way he'd have the chance to use it...
or, as we call it in mafia language: claiming to have not read the thread. This was after Dieno claimed being healed to a point where he was not worried that he would be 1shot.
On November 27 2012 10:06 Hapahauli wrote: I would like to run for party leader
My party will be Dienosaur, Kei, and either Chronicler or Acro If you for whatever reason do not feel safe with Chronicler/Acro, I can add Oatsmaster in that slot.
Why you can trust me I think the parties I proposed above are as near confirmed town as we can get in this situation. Given this player pool, you can trust me. Why? Because if we failed the mission, I would be holding a neon-sign saying "LYNCH ME." This is suicidal for me to do as scum.
I see no reason to put 2 non successful party members in the party today (You, and Chronicler/Acro). And, you couldn't replace Acro/Chronicler with Oats. The only possible way you could replace them would be with syllo.
Oh I totes confused names for some reason. Yes Syllo instead of Chronicler/Acro.
Whaddya think? I'm in a position where I'm not under suspicion, and I (as hypothetical scum) would only have everything to lose by presenting myself like this.
I'm not strongly opposed to you going along. I still prefer Djodref or Chronicler. I see no reason for you to be leader, though. Whatever these events do, it might be worthwhile to scum to sacrifice one to fail the event. We don't seem to be getting many lynches and already have Toad's head on the chopping block.
Is there really a big difference between him being party leader, or going in the party, if in the event the party succeeds he comes out confirmed town either way?
That being said, I do feel Djo is also a strong choice for fresh blood to bring.
after about a million posts on how the leader gets items GK can't figure out a difference between giving Hapa a place on the team and a leadership role. GK wants the item to go to hapa instead of the 'confirmed' town
Once again, later in the same cycle, GK once again forgets his own reads:
On November 27 2012 14:51 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, I've finalized my proposed party:
Me, syllo, Oats, Djodref
This is a party I find completely acceptable. Apparently no one else is too worried about your low success modifier... I'll cross my fingers and hope that the success determination mechanic is similar to what you've said + Show Spoiler +
(I find it consoling that the more I think about it the more unlikely it feels that it's anything like what I proposed...)
. And I hope that your special powers from being in a party are crazy good...
##Unvote ##Vote: Keirathi
Final answer.
And in case you're wondering, the largest reason is satisfaction with your party selection. Confirming Djo as town is a good move.
It looks like Dieno is a serious contender for the title of party leader today. I don't want people to waste heals or protections on him because I have already used a retroactive ability on him which totally protects him. I have already saved him during the second cycle I believe. So now you are free to use your abilities on someone else ^^
I aslo would like Dieno to consider taking me instead of TC on his party because I'm not fully trusting TC yet (hence my vote on Keirathi) but I'm not going to fight for it because Dieno's party is likely to succeed already imo.
For what it's worth I also would prefer you to TC. But both of you are strong town reads for me atm.
Is this another fake claim btw? If so, I approve.
look at that role fishing, needs to know if he can kill Dieno during the night. And Djo is super townie bro now.
We now move on to another point: What GK feels about Lurkers and why that makes him scum
I'm not here I have to go to work. I was catching up with the thread after my morning shower and stuff... I have never claimed anything. I lied about the usage an ability that I could still have (hint: I cannot shoot anybody in fact) and I've managed to force iamp and Adam to participate. I really liked both their reactions and I'm not wooried about them anymore. It's not the case for S&B and VE. In our last game, S&B started to do some real townie stuff when he was on the verge of being lynched. My view on him right now is that he can and have to do better if he is town. But I don't have a strong scum read on him. Null for me atm. My problem is that I don't know how to force them to participate more.
And, seriously, you can totally trust Dieno to me. This ability is for real. I didn't breadcrumb but you can see some hint in my filter for my D2 save.
Don't worry about the lurkers. All you can do is encourage them to participate.
reasonable because of course we can't do shit to make them play, don't worry about them. Even though I just said we should vig them over confirmed scum.
The case that never was
GK calls SnB scum here:
On November 28 2012 08:12 goodkarma wrote: @Djo:
While you're here:
StrongandBig is scum. Please discuss.
and promises a case a few times, here though he is working on it:
On November 28 2012 07:24 strongandbig wrote: hey guys
just caught up with teh threadzor
so correct me if i'm wrong but we're picking dienosore to be party leader because he might get masamune? keirathi do you think it would help you at all to be the party leader instead of a party follower?
also i think that hopeless is scum even though it turns out acro is 3p - some of the things that hopeless has done since being checked seem to me like scum in desperation
like the whole thing about being on a party - this and hapa's thing and the chronicler all have done it - like i said to hapa before, i'm suspicious of anyone who says "put me in the party" instead of just relying on their townieness to be self-evident or whatever, because scum might have more information than we do and they might be starting to really want us to fail a mission
some other stuff:
On November 27 2012 12:49 Hopeless1der wrote: I think we've decided that our Party leader is going to be one of our previous party members. Oats cannot lead. That leaves:
Syllogism
Keirathi
Dienosore
Clarity_nl
This could very well be the party that runs today's event.
Only one of Dienosore and Oatsmaster can be on the party due to setup restrictions. Oatsmaster and Syllogism have already led a party before and have items to show for it.
I believe the leaders receive an item upon a successful mission completion. Either we try to pool resources to one player (i.e. syllo today) or we divvy up the spoils among as many players as possible while maintaining a successful party. I don't like the idea of powering up one player for a number of reasons:
Scum might be able to steal items Items may be lost upon death The player may in fact be scum
I'd prefer syllo and oats not be in the party at all because they currently hold items, but if we can't identify a 4th for the team, I'd pick dieno over oats and have syllo step in to fill the last spot.
My choice for party leader is one of Keir, Dieno and Clarity. As I've already stated, I'd like to be included in the party. If any of them are inclined to give me the 4th spot, I'd be delighted and they will receive my vote. In the meantime, I'm fine sheeping the current votelead on Keir. ##Vote: Keirathi
Also, I hereby state that I won't put a last-minute voteswitch onto Toad today, in case anyone suspects shenanigans.
like, seriously - what is the point of saying that last bit...
then there's the fact that his response to a red check from tc was "bring it bitches" like, he answers the whole case point by point and then he doesn't address the check itself...
tc's long case post was actually pretty bad, but after hopeless went through the case and answered it point by point, instead of actually addressing the dt check, he's just like "bring it" - that doesn't feel very town to me
then there's this "im untargetable tonight" thing. i don't understand what he's trying to head off here - townies would use negative abilities on toad, and scum would use negative abilities on pretty much anyone other than h1 or toad. the only thing that seems likely to hit h1 is maybe another dt check, so i don't see how him making himself untargetable or telling us he's untargetable are helpful to town
This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious...
You feel like soft-defending H1? How about you hard-defend him instead. What the hell has h1 done that is in ANY way REMOTELY in town's best interest?
So apparently pro-town = town, and anti-town = scum??? O.O
Dafuq you talking about. You attack SnB over having a bad case. While I don't find his case particularly convincing, I don't see any motivation for your soft defense of H1. Enlighten us.
Calm your nipples. I'm working on my case now...
As a side note, though: speculating on Greymist's counter is pointless. If I were Greymist, I'd leave the counter at one for three days just to fuck with us.
it turns out there was no case on SnB:
On November 28 2012 09:57 goodkarma wrote: My strongandbig read was in fact in large part due to activity, in addition to the incomplete cases / reads he was bringing up. I was unaware, however, of the severe lack of internet he was experiencing, and will back off of him for now...
In its place I provide a mafia (the game) favorite, a scum suspect shortlist:
1) Iamp - I have a good "gut feel" about this guy I guess you could say. But he still has yet to contribute anything meaningful, which earns him a spot here. Would be willing to give him more time to see if his roleclaim checks out. 2) VE - Shoot him dead. I actually think he might be more likely to be town than scum given his enthusiasm for playing scum. But if an elimination-based approach for finding scum is to work, he has to go. He has not posted enough to make a meaningful read... 3) phagga - Need to reread his filter at some point (but not something I'm focusing on today). He has been pro-town in his contributions, but I can't help but feel he is also "playing it safe" and doing what he can to fly under the radar... 4) Adam - lurker who might need to be shot too. 5) Kita - I'm inclined to believe Marv's read of 3rd party 6) Cave - This guy won't be figured out without getting vigi killed. Shoot first, ask questions later... 7) Z-boson - From my experience with him, he likes to play pretty safe as scum, whereas as town he is rather reckless to the point of being pretty easy to mislynch. He definitely is making his own reads and contributing to thread, but all his reads I would call "safe" ones in that he is targeting almost exclusively lurkers... Null read atm, even after looking into filter. 8) Prox - Tbh I don't know what to do with him. Syllo's input is definitely appreciated, but I don't see him as a strong scum read (closer to null...). 9) Strong - I had a strong scum read based both off meta and on filter. However, with meta differences explained, I'm inclined to give him more of a chance to establish himself as town before coming to conclusions. 10) Toad - Scum 11) Hopeless (maybe) - clearly anti-town, but I'm still not convinced that he's scum. Would even go so far as to say slight town read...
just a list of half (HALF) the players left in the game and why they are scum who need to be shot.
On November 28 2012 10:03 goodkarma wrote: I know people hate lists, but honestly establishing town is just as important, if not moreso, than finding scum this game. So I have less of a problem with lists.
My current conclusions:
1) Vigi shoot VE, Cave, and maybe Adam (in that order). 2) Kita probably is 3rd party... 3) Rolecheck Prox. if possible... 4) Toad = scum...
And in case you were wondering, I would say that everyone not on that list is town at this point...
look at those directions to blues: shoot three guys who (though lurky) probably at least two of them are town. Calls out 3p, calls the confirmed scum scum and says to rolecheck one of our own blues which would clear me and give us no new useful information, a red check is >>>>> a green check.
Remember how we weren't suppossed to care about lurkers because they would sort themselves out? Again, niether does GK,
On November 28 2012 09:57 goodkarma wrote: My strongandbig read was in fact in large part due to activity, in addition to the incomplete cases / reads he was bringing up. I was unaware, however, of the severe lack of internet he was experiencing, and will back off of him for now...
In its place I provide a mafia (the game) favorite, a scum suspect shortlist:
1) Iamp - I have a good "gut feel" about this guy I guess you could say. But he still has yet to contribute anything meaningful, which earns him a spot here. Would be willing to give him more time to see if his roleclaim checks out. 2) VE - Shoot him dead. I actually think he might be more likely to be town than scum given his enthusiasm for playing scum. But if an elimination-based approach for finding scum is to work, he has to go. He has not posted enough to make a meaningful read... 3) phagga - Need to reread his filter at some point (but not something I'm focusing on today). He has been pro-town in his contributions, but I can't help but feel he is also "playing it safe" and doing what he can to fly under the radar... 4) Adam - lurker who might need to be shot too. 5) Kita - I'm inclined to believe Marv's read of 3rd party 6) Cave - This guy won't be figured out without getting vigi killed. Shoot first, ask questions later... 7) Z-boson - From my experience with him, he likes to play pretty safe as scum, whereas as town he is rather reckless to the point of being pretty easy to mislynch. He definitely is making his own reads and contributing to thread, but all his reads I would call "safe" ones in that he is targeting almost exclusively lurkers... Null read atm, even after looking into filter. 8) Prox - Tbh I don't know what to do with him. Syllo's input is definitely appreciated, but I don't see him as a strong scum read (closer to null...). 9) Strong - I had a strong scum read based both off meta and on filter. However, with meta differences explained, I'm inclined to give him more of a chance to establish himself as town before coming to conclusions. 10) Toad - Scum 11) Hopeless (maybe) - clearly anti-town, but I'm still not convinced that he's scum. Would even go so far as to say slight town read...
ya don't listen to this at all shoot the scum
And which scum exactly would you propose we shoot then?
All the people I proposed have a decent chance of flipping scum.
those lurkers all have a decent chance to flip scum. Errr...wat? Hitting lurkers with Viggiies is the eliminate coin flips. Not probable scum. Also GK calls VE probably town and says to shoot him. This has been brought up before but yeah...GK=scum.
On November 29 2012 02:45 Promethelax wrote: -sniped-
if we don't get a lynch though we need to start that focus fire earlier. How confidant are you that we will get a lynch? (hint: I'm not at all)
From the damage reports, I'm under the impression town has roughly 150 damage / turn at its disposal.
From the flips, however, 600 HP seems to be a reasonable assumption for the amount of HP Toad has. (Following the mechanics of the actual game, I'd say he can't have any more than 999.) As such, I'd expect it to take at least 3-4 turns to kill him. And I strongly believe we'll have a chance to lynch within 1-2 turns.
and this, which as myself and others point out means he has some idea of the scum KP. Though it could be guesswork it could also be outside knowledge. If he wasn't already scummy as fuck this might not be a slip but with GK playing as he is I read this as a scum slip.
In conclusion: GK is scum because of his flipping and flopping on Sandroba, Syllo and Djo without reason. GK is scum because of his attempts to direct blue actions. GK is scum because he has a twon read on people he wants to be shot GK is scum because he provides useless lists full of so many reads that he doesn't have any ideas of his own. GK is scum because he has knowledge of the scum kp.
Sorry for how goddamn long this is. But eh, there wasn't much I could cut. It was all relevant.
On November 29 2012 10:50 TheChronicler wrote: Placed my vote I'm going to shower and sleep. Lifting was fucking hard today.
I'm Risen, by the way. Sorry I lied to you Prom I've been feeling nonstop bad about it since I did it but seriously could you have crumbed my name any more obviously? It wasn't enough that you just said you knew who I was?
heh, I thought it was funny. The thing is if anyone tried to figure it out they would know. I thought I would just give you the jab to claim because I knew who you were.
On November 29 2012 11:03 Clarity_nl wrote: I think before I go to bed it is fairly safe for me to say this, and this ability benefits from information so:
I have a 1-shot instant ability that returns someone to the state they were in a full cycle ago. This includes health, any status effect and any abilities they had at the time. So if I were to use it on CaveJohnson he would be able to use his 1-shot again, although seeing as toad didn't die that's probably not the best idea.
So I'm crowd sourcing. I don't expect to die this cycle, so what do you guys think would be the best use of my ability? =] I look forward to hearing some responses. For example: Djo is your protection ability 1shot?
Night all see you tomorrow.
Don't worry about dying next cycle buddy. I believe in you.
Kita and Phagga, because you are here I'd like your response to my GK case. I know it'll take a while to read. But read it. It took me over two hours to write so give it some respect. What do you think and why?
I agree GK is probably scum, him ignoring my my question on risk.nuke isn't helping that any.
Just to be clear, a significant factor in my town read on risk had to do with interactions in the QT I share with him. I didn't deem it appropriate to explain my mason QT with him at the time, so I sidestepped your question.
On November 29 2012 11:24 goodkarma wrote: And also, I'm sure I'll repeat it in addressing Prox's case, but:
You're making a bad situation even worse. Trying to "redeem" deino's epic fail by assuming I must be scum, when Acro proclaimed himself 3rd party (as in: not town) is terrible...
Crazy how I didn't even bring that up in the case against you. Your behaviours makes you scum. The fact that you were in a failed party is a nice cherry on top but the case stands on its own without that, Sure, you being in that party was a major impetus for me to not be lazy and actually do what I was planning on.
On November 29 2012 11:53 Acrofales wrote: God, I feel so reinvindicated with my first post of the game. Derps should not be party leaders. Well, guess it's pretty fucking lucky I already claimed 3rd party. You can go sort out whether the failure was due to me or GK. I have no clue, due to my influence factor being hidden and all that jazz. If it helps you out: lorewise I have no reason to believe either one or the other and it being Greymist makes it pretty much impossible for me to guess whether it's me or GK responsible. Keep in mind, that Keirathi also claimed a low influence value.
Also, for those doing the bookkeeping, I took 75 damage.
my giant case. Read it. Tell me your thinks about it.
On November 29 2012 11:53 Acrofales wrote: God, I feel so reinvindicated with my first post of the game. Derps should not be party leaders. Well, guess it's pretty fucking lucky I already claimed 3rd party. You can go sort out whether the failure was due to me or GK. I have no clue, due to my influence factor being hidden and all that jazz. If it helps you out: lorewise I have no reason to believe either one or the other and it being Greymist makes it pretty much impossible for me to guess whether it's me or GK responsible. Keep in mind, that Keirathi also claimed a low influence value.
Also, for those doing the bookkeeping, I took 75 damage.
my giant case. Read it. Tell me your thinks about it.
My thoughts: your giant case could use spoiler tags. It also won't change my vote.
I'll bother figuring out GK for myself tomorrow.
It doesn't have to change your vote. I also think that voting Toad is the best play right now. Unless we can hit him for more later and can lynch confirmed scum this cycle anyways.
Does his claimed damage taken make sense to you? That is do you have more than 774 max HP?
I, unlike you, am courteous enough to break up the bullshit you thoughtlessly spat out on paper. Part one incoming, with part 2 still being worked on.
The sad thing is that it doesn't even require a whole lot of a response to shoot down, it's "but fucking bad." Yet, sifting through 43 pages of crap takes time...
Attacking me instead of the case on you. Good play right there. You are still scum and your response to this case and your play confirm it.
On November 29 2012 11:03 Clarity_nl wrote: I think before I go to bed it is fairly safe for me to say this, and this ability benefits from information so:
I have a 1-shot instant ability that returns someone to the state they were in a full cycle ago. This includes health, any status effect and any abilities they had at the time. So if I were to use it on CaveJohnson he would be able to use his 1-shot again, although seeing as toad didn't die that's probably not the best idea.
So I'm crowd sourcing. I don't expect to die this cycle, so what do you guys think would be the best use of my ability? =] I look forward to hearing some responses. For example: Djo is your protection ability 1shot?
Night all see you tomorrow.
@Clarity
My protection ability was retroactive. It means that you shouldn't use your power on me because I had already used it on D3 for D4. I got lucky to use it at a good timing because it basically provides protection from death for the targeted player. That's why it is not so imb4 even if Dieno could have taken over 9000 damage and not die from it (and me being roleblock on D4 wouldn't have changed anything). I've already used it twice on Dieno (D1 and D3) and I may or may not have more shots I was hoping to get roleblocked by the mafia but nothing happened to me yesterday. I don't think that Toad is pardoned today because I would expect this kind of thing to be announced on the OP and the scumteam could have expected him to die.
Regarding the failure of the event, assuming that Acro is not lying about being 3rd party, which I strongly believe, we can that the following thing happened. I think it is also reasonable to assume that Acro has only a neutral influence
GK has certainly a negative influence on the event. That makes him more likely scum. Adding that to Prom's case, I'm really certain that GK is also mafia. So yeah, Toad first and we have to lynch him today, then GK, then risk/z-bo/hopeless. That would be my current scumreads.
Oh, and if anyone is doubting my save of Dieno, I would like them to say it now or shut up forever. Can I also be considered almost confirmed town for it ? Just saying this so you can send me on a party anytime whithout too much doubts now.
Vote: Toad
I would like anyone
I know English isn't your first language. Could you clarify what you mean by the bolded? Thanks.
"I actually don’t get at all what you’re trying to get at below… You go back in time before the vote, and then make believe that I didn’t have my reads change over time… I’m not going to address your discussion here, as you clearly didn’t take the time to get your facts straight…"
I'm not going to address the part of your case which talks about how my reads/votes don't match what I say. -GK
"Are you getting somewhere with this? Does attacking my play make you feel better? What is my actual scum motivation for removing Oats then?"
What I was getting at, obviously, was that you attacked an early association case and used an association case to remove a town player from your team. That gives you the chance to attack Oats in the future based on your past reads. In addition no, I don't think if you are scum Phag has to be scum, I think he needs to be looked at again to see what comes up if you flip scum.
I, unlike you, am courteous enough to break up the bullshit you thoughtlessly spat out on paper. Part one incoming, with part 2 still being worked on.
The sad thing is that it doesn't even require a whole lot of a response to shoot down, it's "but fucking bad." Yet, sifting through 43 pages of crap takes time...
Attacking me instead of the case on you. Good play right there. You are still scum and your response to this case and your play confirm it.
Go through NMM XXII post-game and tell me how your play now is any different than it was then. I am both pissed and disappointed right now...
You do know that I was town in XXII, right? I'll assume you are trying to compare me to XXIII in which case the difference is that my play now is town motivated and not randomly wishy washy and crap. This is a straw man attack which has nothing to do with the case on you. You have managed to ignore the major points in the case and attack small details instead of the case itself.
If we want to compare someone's play to my scum play from XXIII it would be you. A pile of reads and no real ideas of your own.
On November 29 2012 12:18 Promethelax wrote: fix your tags so I can read anything in there.
this its unreadable just fix it
Thankfully GK doesn't actually have responses so they are easy to find. I am also amused by his 'I edit a million times' thing versus lol fuck you guys just deal with my fail tags.
What about my case is strong and why does it convince you?
I have some reservations about Syllo. I'm not sure how I feel about his sudden town read on me (as evidenced by me not being RB'd last cycle) I think scum would have wanted to RB me anyway since they know that I am town. I'm pretty confused about not being RB'd at all.
On November 29 2012 12:13 Djodref wrote: Can I also be considered almost confirmed town for it ? Just saying this so you can send me on a party anytime whithout too much doubts now.
Tonight's actions have completely greened you in my book.
I realize I've probably lost whatever influence I had with you guys, but I suggest the next party look something like Djo/Syllo/Oats/Clarity
stop it with this self pitying crap. You did a stupid. My last game I single handedly lost the game for town. These things happen. Now stop it. Give us your reads, play the game and try to step it up. Don't wallow in this, use it as the catalyst to play better and redeem yourself.
On November 29 2012 12:18 Promethelax wrote: fix your tags so I can read anything in there.
this its unreadable just fix it
Thankfully GK doesn't actually have responses so they are easy to find. I am also amused by his 'I edit a million times' thing versus lol fuck you guys just deal with my fail tags.
What about my case is strong and why does it convince you?
I have some reservations about Syllo. I'm not sure how I feel about his sudden town read on me (as evidenced by me not being RB'd last cycle) I think scum would have wanted to RB me anyway since they know that I am town. I'm pretty confused about not being RB'd at all.
I do edit my stuff heavily.
Doesn't meant that I spout massive quotes and make text walls for my scum suspects to have to deal with when making cases against them...
here: GK is scum because of his flipping and flopping on Sandroba, Syllo and Djo without reason. GK is scum because of his attempts to direct blue actions. GK is scum because he has a town read on people he wants to be shot GK is scum because he provides useless lists full of so many reads that he doesn't have any ideas of his own. GK is scum because he has knowledge of the scum kp. that is the case. I honestly should have spoilered the rest of it. Attack the length all you want but those are the points you need to address which you have still not addressed.
Also note that the case has already convinced at least two of your 'town reads' so maybe think about it. My case clearly served its purpose to push you as the next major scum. Now if we still have cops you'll be a done deal because they will either check you or me and either realize I'm town or you are scum. Either way we get to lynch you next time we have a chance.
On November 29 2012 13:06 iamperfection wrote: you have reservations about sylo prom?
I do. I've posted them before but yeah, I want some input though because I am made out of paranoia and might just be totally wrong. (if you aren't sure about how paranoid I am go look at ACME where I intentionally got Acro to roleclaim roleblocker so that scum would kill him if he was town).
On November 29 2012 13:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Lynch GK. Seriously, what makes you so much better than Dieno? He is basically confirmed town, you are on the verge of scum. If you are town, why is Dieno confirmed and you are not?
Not even going to go there.
I would suggest to you that you consider the veracity of my claim before you go lynch-happy.
And also consider that Acro is not town. He claims 3rd party, but he could very well also be scum. And both could plausibly ruin the success of the party.
Where is your response to 1)the second half of my case 2)everything since that time 3)why you are using being unhappy there is a case on you as an excuse to avoid the case on you.
On November 29 2012 13:04 goodkarma wrote: Might as well roleclaim now:
My name is Fiona. I have a vigilante-type role.
Night 3, I was responsible for 150 points of damage on CaveJohnson.
So here's what I propose: 1) You see if anyone comes forward to counterclaim the damage. 2) If someone does one of us is scum. Lynch accordingly. 3) If not, I am incredibly tired of having to deal with ignorant people... I'm going to role claim now, so that later as confirmed town I'm entitled to draw giant pictures of dinosaurs, and run around failing parties like I've been lobotomized.
See you guys later after I've calmed down.
Why are you so mad at Dieno? He made a mistake, it happens.
You were sent on a mission with 2 semi-confirmed townies, and being in a better position then all of us due to knowing your alignment, you should have been able to make a definitive call as to whether Acro positively or negatively affects missions.
I feel like the right response would have been to come in, be adamant that you are town and try and dump this mess on Acro. Yet your first post after the mission result is:
On November 29 2012 09:14 goodkarma wrote: So now what?
Toad very well could be lying. He could have 1 HP or 700 HP... There's no way of knowing.
I say lynch him anyway.
##Vote: Toad
"So now what?" does not feel like the right reaction to someone that feels like they've just been 'framed' by the mission failure.
I did affirmatively say it was Acro. I've said it several times. Why would it be my first reaction to "dump it on him?" Acro claimed 3rd party. He's clearly not town. How in any way shape or form did it suddenly become obviously my fault?
It didn't. This is a strawman you have been attacking since I made my case. Note how I didn't mention that at all in my case? Good.
Your reaction to being on that failed party though was not town motivated. Adam did a rather decent job of explaining it.
On November 29 2012 13:04 goodkarma wrote: Might as well roleclaim now:
My name is Fiona. I have a vigilante-type role.
Night 3, I was responsible for 150 points of damage on CaveJohnson.
So here's what I propose: 1) You see if anyone comes forward to counterclaim the damage. 2) If someone does one of us is scum. Lynch accordingly. 3) If not, I am incredibly tired of having to deal with ignorant people... I'm going to role claim now, so that later as confirmed town I'm entitled to draw giant pictures of dinosaurs, and run around failing parties like I've been lobotomized.
See you guys later after I've calmed down.
Why are you so mad at Dieno? He made a mistake, it happens.
You were sent on a mission with 2 semi-confirmed townies, and being in a better position then all of us due to knowing your alignment, you should have been able to make a definitive call as to whether Acro positively or negatively affects missions.
I feel like the right response would have been to come in, be adamant that you are town and try and dump this mess on Acro. Yet your first post after the mission result is:
On November 29 2012 09:14 goodkarma wrote: So now what?
Toad very well could be lying. He could have 1 HP or 700 HP... There's no way of knowing.
I say lynch him anyway.
##Vote: Toad
"So now what?" does not feel like the right reaction to someone that feels like they've just been 'framed' by the mission failure.
I did affirmatively say it was Acro. I've said it several times. Why would it be my first reaction to "dump it on him?" Acro claimed 3rd party. He's clearly not town. How in any way shape or form did it suddenly become obviously my fault?
It didn't. This is a strawman you have been attacking since I made my case. Note how I didn't mention that at all in my case? Good.
Your reaction to being on that failed party though was not town motivated. Adam did a rather decent job of explaining it.
If I'm this "clear scum" you seem to believe I am then answer me this:
Where did those 150 points damage come from?
I have yet to hear any kind of counterclaims...
Could be what you actually did. If CJ is town and has some kickass abilities (which he certainly claimed) hitting him as scum isn't that bad a move. It also leaves you free to claim that shot to 'prove' your townieness since there is a plausible explanation for town to do what you did since Draz is notoriously hard to read. Scum have kp, scum also probably have damaging abilities. Could have been either of those.
Okay, you've replied. I've explained my points. I'm going to stop helping you shit up the thread now.
Other players: I'd like your comments on GK's claim and what that does/doesn't do to exonerate him. I'd also like those of you who haven't weighed in on it yet to tell me what you think of him from my case.
On November 29 2012 14:12 goodkarma wrote: Also, what good would publicly claiming my target be? That's a great way of getting him bussed or me indirectly RB'ed by an ability similar to your own.
Has anyone ever seen Zbo be so...under the radar? I guess he has exams but he also didn't say that pre-game and, along with VE, SnB and Risk his lurking is worrying me. It isn't something I expect from any of the three of them, though I guess Risk being in a mason qt makes sense for this.
You four: I'd like more from you. Like I straight up had forgotten SnB was playing this game when he posted earlier. Nothing any of these four players have done has stuck with me which is not what I would expect. They are the kind of players whom I expect more from.
'sup Syllo. I'm here for 40 more minutes if you have any questions make 'em snappy.
GK, when you wake up: I'd like a reply to Oats' question of you. Why did you choose to shoot CJ, who else have you targeted and why do you think that your claim makes you town?
I was more curious about you d1/2 BC. You are right your last cycle crumb was pretty clear. I just prefer having these things claimed.
I think we should leave off on our team plans until after this cycle. Since we have a lynch this cycle it is like a normal mafia game and giving town reads right now is pretty crap. We need scum reads right now. Besides Toad. Go forth young Djo, find scum, build cases etc. etc.
I protected a member of the (proposed) party. Based on Iamp's "what if we want to heal a party member" I figured I wasn't the only one protecting party members. I decided not to go for Dieno since Djo had claimed he was doing that and I figured Oats had the highest HP. Kier claimed a low success modifier and 600AD character. I still don't really trust you. I figured Clarity made the most since based on all of that.
Djo: I've had a town read on Acro the whole game. I think Hopeless is way scummier than Acro and that if Hope flips scum we'll be confirmed that Acro is not scum. If hope flips town I'll have to re-evaluate but for now I'm taking Acro at face value, though I'd be more comfortable with him if he hadn't said that he player super pro town as scum. His 3p claim makes sense from his play, whether or not he is pro town or not I think remains to be seen but right now I have no reason to think he should be eliminated over scummier players. If we kill five scum (my bet for scum numbers in a 25 person game) and haven't won and he is still around yeah, we should take another look.
On November 29 2012 15:40 syllogism wrote: Actually I forgot that you don't protect against factional KP, doesn't matter much then and I think the shield is more useful
so, anything else that needs a quick answer? I have 20 minutes.
On November 29 2012 15:49 risk.nuke wrote: I confirm GK's outdraws. As for the rest, you can dream on you'll get the logs Prom. And I really doubt GK is scum. Why you're trying to pin the failed mission on him with Keir and Acro on the party I don't understand. Think of it as four normal townies give 4.0 Keir have a low rating so give him 0.5. This party had 2.5/4.0 with GK as town.
So you didn't read my case either? That is the straw man that GK has been attacking but not a single mention was made in my case on the failed mission because there are other explanations for that. The rest of his play however does not have other explanations.
Risk, what have you been doing this game to help town?
So does anyone have any ideas about 1) The necessity for party leader & lynch and 2) the likelihood of four third parties in the game (Acro, Kita, CJ, Risk).
As it stands I still have a scum read on GK, his response to my case has been terrible. trying to make himself confirmed by talking about hitting Draz for 150 hp just doesn't prove anything. Draz is one of those targets that everyone wants dead. GK (and Risk) keep attackign the idea that GK is scum because of the failed mission and I think this is a pretty strong scum tell from Gk (I'm assuming he asked Risk to defend him, Syllo?) since this is an argument that literally no one has brought up as the reason for him to be scum, though some have mentioned in as an addendum.
I'll be voting Clarity (for party leader, obviously) he is a townie and he has my protection.
On November 30 2012 01:32 syllogism wrote: When I read the QT for the first time, my first impression of the conversations was that it was all an act by both parties although clearly more so by Risk. Now I'm leaning more towards just Risk. He says things like he is unsure whether his alleged roleblock prevented him from inviting Keirathi and that he was awaiting for modconfimation. If he was roleblocked and received a PM stating as much, how could he possibly believe that his mason recruit could have gone through anyway.
would you post the qt logs so that the rest of us can see what you are seeing?
Shall we spam this page off so that the game will load for you Clarity?
Also: we need a number 2 scum read for this lynch. I'm happy to park my vote on GK but if he is not the #2 read for everyone I can accept that as long as someone else who at least looks scummy to me is on the chopping block under Toad.
Gato is nothing like what you guys described from the QT. he is an early robotic enemy, kind of like a quintain, a training enemy. http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Gato But yeah, the tent and crystal ball make no sense.
On November 30 2012 01:58 GreYMisT wrote: It was brought to my attention that once again I am forgetful
Today You also have the pleasure of voting for tomorrows party leader. There will be a special event tomorrow with 2 stages of in thread voting, thus the party leader and his party must be selected today!
On November 30 2012 01:58 GreYMisT wrote: It was brought to my attention that once again I am forgetful
Today You also have the pleasure of voting for tomorrows party leader. There will be a special event tomorrow with 2 stages of in thread voting, thus the party leader and his party must be selected today!
This cycle.
oooh, reading comprehension. Thanks.
I'm voting GK, don't want toad to decide the lynch by being pardoned.
Looking up the crystal ball I didn't really find anything (except for Inuyasha/Chrono Trigger fanfic). There are Crystal ball sprites in Enhasa and Kajar but niether seem to hold much importance. Since the thing 'appeared to be' a crystal ball I also looked for spherical objects in the wiki. Moon/Sun stone seem most likely. Although Dreamstone and Chrono Trigger are both possibilities.
Glad to see VE and Risk both here. Its like a miracle.
VE: I'm sad you don't like my giant case. The paraphrasing is an attempt at not just dryly stating the scum motivation in those posts but ah well. I look forward to see what you have to add.
On November 30 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: Acro wants to kill me over confirmed scum. I see, you claimed to be pro-town third party right?
Dafuq? I want to lynch toad. In the case toad is pardoned, I prefer you get killed over GK at the moment. I prefer EITHER of you over Syllo, who would currently be set for lynching if Toad is pardoned and the pardoner works the way people seem to think it does. Learn2read. For the umpteenbillionth time.
pardoner doesn't work that way. If someone gets pardoned there will be a no-lynch.
Sincerly, your friendly neighbourhoud-Toad
While Toad is right and I have never heard/seen a pardoner work this way: safe > sorry.
On November 30 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote: I think taking you on the party would be the dumbest idea in the world seeing as you claimed you had 24 hp. Even that might be false however since I believe Prom(?) claimed he dealt 50 damage to you and you lived.
There is definitely merit in discussing the rollback but it's hard to believe the things you say after your hp claim is now in question.
hurrbledurblederr. Read the thread Clarity. CJ claimed 24 hp and someone else (forget who) claimed to hit him for 50. Nothing to do with Risen.
On November 30 2012 02:46 Promethelax wrote: Risen: why did you decide to smurf this game? What were you hoping to gain by that?
Syllo: can you please give us some of the posts from the QT which you feel are damning of Risk.
I had suspicions it was Risen from his behaviour. Given his meta, I can see the reason for him wanting to smurf. Does it matter? Will it give you a clue about his alignment? If not: postgame.
It does matter, yes. It may give me a clue as to his alignment.
On November 30 2012 02:46 Promethelax wrote: Risen: why did you decide to smurf this game? What were you hoping to gain by that?
Syllo: can you please give us some of the posts from the QT which you feel are damning of Risk.
I had suspicions it was Risen from his behaviour. Given his meta, I can see the reason for him wanting to smurf. Does it matter? Will it give you a clue about his alignment? If not: postgame.
It does matter, yes. It may give me a clue as to his alignment.
How would it give you a clue to his alignment if he decided to smurf BEFORE he got his role? :o
Also back, catching up. On my phone so hard to make big posts.
because of what he has done as a smurf after he got his role instead of as Risen after he got his role.
On November 30 2012 02:46 Promethelax wrote: Risen: why did you decide to smurf this game? What were you hoping to gain by that?
Syllo: can you please give us some of the posts from the QT which you feel are damning of Risk.
I've been trying to smurf for a while now. This is the third game I signed up for on chronicler? First one that started :/
No, it is the second one you have signed up for with this alias, believe me, I read all of your posts and checked time stamps with your main; just this and LVIII. Any real reason you wanted to smurf? Or did you just want to get away from being Risen?
Syllo: you are in the qt with GK, his claimed abilities match in thread and in qt no doubt. Can you confirm that his target for next cycle makes sense from a town perspective (obviously don't tell us who it was) because he seems very sure that his role confirms him which seems almost too dumb to be scum.
Risen: no you did not sign up for COld War on this or your main.
Acro: Thinking about it you seem pretty right. Clearly this next cycle scum need to kill the party. I already protected clarity and I'll mind meld with one of the other likely party members tonight. I assume the other protective roles will do a similar thing. My only concern is with making Syllo a repeat leader. That is why I think clarity is preferable. If you are voting for Syllo to ensure a 'confirmed town' gets elected despite any shenanies I approve.
Keir: no, I think acro's reasons make sense.
VE/Syllo: since there is nothing we can do with that information right now I think that you should wait until next cycle to reveal it or at least alter in this cycle where that information, hopefully, won't benefit scum.
On November 30 2012 03:10 Keirathi wrote: Does no one else find it strange that Acro voted me for party leader an hour and a half ago, then 15 minutes ago decided that I shouldn't even be in the party?
That's a huge flip-flop with zero reasoning :o
Dude, do you read the thread?
Of course I do. And I'm looking at your filter right now. Between the time that you voted me, and the time that you excluded me, you didn't talk any about this HP or HSM stuff. Then bam, just changed your mind. And called the HSM stuff "shenanigans" without any reasoning whatsoever.
Anyways, I find it hard to believe that an all townie team can lose an event under any situation, no matter how many people are still alive. That kind of system just doesn't make sense. But I guess it could be a possibility.
I find it pretty easy to believe. I mean basically all you have to do is take your zero sum system and make us need >100 or something instead of >0. also: GreYMisT.
The impression I got was that Djo ability actually just saves someone from dying but not from taking damage. I'd like some clarification on that though.
Can anyone understand the flavour connotations of a tent with a crystal ball? I can't find anything.
while I generally approve of your reads I'd ask that Adam not get taken. His play is really easy to fake as scum and he is not an asset of a town player.
On November 30 2012 09:03 Clarity_nl wrote: You scared me there iamp, thought I was pulling a Dieno.
@ Hapa
It's late, and I don't want to go through phagga's filter. Setup speculation is easy, and in a themed game it is also useful to an extent. You wanna be pissed go right ahead but it's not helping anyone. THINGS happened and you are at the shitty end of it at the moment, just keep doing what you're doing because no one is going to lynch you on this alone. I do however plan on reading phagga's and your filter tomorrow and try to get to some conclusions.
Even Keir's "leaning scum" wasn't solely off of the setup stuff, so take a breath.
maybe you should send actions in now you can always change it
What, just in case I get trapped down a hole for 24 hours? Ye of little faith
Send in your party now. You can always change it later.
On November 30 2012 09:01 Hapahauli wrote: And will someone read my goddamn case on Phagga already? The fact that a bunch of near-confirmed townies are herp-derping around is maddening.
I read it. It wasn't the most convincing thing ever. I wish Phag posted more and some of his d1 stuff is incriminating but I feel like I couldn't build a case that would convince me he is scum.
I would be super excited about taking that ability if it was possible and I had an ability which copied abilities directed at me I'd want a huge awesome sauce vig shot. Though Phag is an idiot for wanting it when he had 600 hp.
On November 30 2012 11:59 kitaman27 wrote: That's what I'm proposing under the assumption that I'm not selected.
why?
Because I'm being realistic and felt that pushing other objectives was a better use of my time. If clarity has a town read on me and wants to include me in his party, I'd prefer myself, dieno, clarity, and oats. Any thoughts on any of the other points?
I'm pretty hung up on the fact that you called a party before we have one selected. Since we need to disguise the party from scum and make sure they aren't confidant who we are taking.
On November 30 2012 20:09 syllogism wrote: It's very likely that mafia has some protective abilities considering my 75 dmg shot only hit Prom for 25. I think him claiming the damage as only 25 is towny, however. It's quite possible that mafia protected him because they knew he was likely going to be shot and it would make him even more suspicious.
I think you are giving to much credit to me for claiming less damage than you aimed at me. Based on the number of healing/weird roles in the game I wouldn't be too surprised to see a 'damage watcher' or something to that effect. I think scum probably, optimally, has to claim accurately. Not that I'm unhappy with you reading me as town obviously but still... How many tracks can you use in a single night?
On December 01 2012 03:53 Promethelax wrote: Acro, what is pgo?
Already explained in the thread. Paranoid Gun Owner.
ah right, I didn't make the connection because I thought it was a name and not a role. Thanks.
@Draz, why are you so sure that your character has to be based on the old invoker?
Because Quas Wex Exort gave me levitation rather than deafening blast
why is you role based on the invoker at all? Why do you have the food stuff/spell names interchangeable in your head? Why do you always insist on saying you have a crazy role? Who is scum who is town?
On December 01 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote: Oats I really would like to know if you got healed. If you did not please pm greymist to confirm your pm is accurate.
On December 01 2012 15:21 TheChronicler wrote: Confirming that I didn't get a pm. Gnight.
Funky shit.
This means the healing notification mechanics may be different than we thought. I find it very hard to believe VE OR TC would be dumb enough to lie about healing at this point.
Either that, or there is some kind of action redirector that is severely screwing with our minds. However, if it is targeted I can think of no sane reason to use that on Hapa and TC rather than high profile players who you'd expect to get healed (Syllo, Marv, Dino).
Healing works as described. As long as you're not at full health and you get healed, you get notified (barring host error), even if you take damage. So either the heal didn't go through or TC is full hp. An action redirector is not out of the question but after 5 completed cycles you'd think we would have more inconsistencies than we have now.
Unless Draz himself is the action director/re-director and it is out of his control. Though it is much more believable that he is full of shit.
My issue with Hapa's host error claim is that GreY contacted me when he realized based on my in thread claim that he had made an error and that occurred only minutes after I posted the incorrect information in the thread. Now I also don't think that Hapa would lie about host error so some host wifom for you: I doubt GreY would suspect a townie of lying intentionally about what happened to him but there is reason for scum to do it.
I think I'll gambit for grabbing the sword, I don't know shit about the game and that sounds fun. And I wanna see what the Masamune does for us.
I think it might be time for everyone to full claim. With everything condensed it has become pretty clear what most players are/do. I thin leaving us, as a town, in the dark doesn't help anymore. I think I'd like a mass claim.
Sorry, Syllo, could you quote the things you are talking about? I have very little free time and I'd love the cliff notes version instead of the filter dive version. My finals are assholes.
because of our original pms. I think they targeted you for some and me for some. I think the host error was in forgetting about my ability. I sent in my pm pretty late so they may have had all the actions prepared before I did that.
I assume that Clar actually took 325 damage but since my shield was there it was reduced to 125. Not sure how the notifications would work though. I'd have to ask GreY.
On December 02 2012 21:22 Adam4167 wrote: If Djordref is mafia, who was protecting Dienosore on nights 4 and 5, as claimed in the daypost?
If there is a counter claim for that protection please step forward now. There is no reason for you to hide and, if you claim later I will assume that you are scum.
On December 02 2012 21:27 Clarity_nl wrote: The counter claim would have happened already. I was under the impression syllo thinks he's mafia even as he was protecting dieno.
I want to be clear though. So that i get to think about this as mafia having this ability which announces life saves in the OP and using it this way. If someone counter claims I get to just compare that player and Djo and know that one of them is scum.
On December 02 2012 21:25 Promethelax wrote: I assume that Clar actually took 325 damage but since my shield was there it was reduced to 125. Not sure how the notifications would work though. I'd have to ask GreY.
This seems very unlikely.
However, what would have been the result if clarity was shot during N5. Would the seed still be doing its roleblock thingy? Or would it already be a shield?
It would roleblock/vanish like it would the cycle I planted it. If I plant n1 it will role block anyone who visits the target n1, if no one targets the player it is still there n2 where it acts as if it was just planted. n3 it is a shield.
On December 02 2012 21:52 CaveJohnson wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if that was how long the game was going to last Adam. I knew it was going to be a long game the moment the HP mechanic was mentioned
scheduled to end dec 3-15. no time for fifteen cycles.
On December 02 2012 21:25 Promethelax wrote: I assume that Clar actually took 325 damage but since my shield was there it was reduced to 125. Not sure how the notifications would work though. I'd have to ask GreY.
This seems very unlikely.
However, what would have been the result if clarity was shot during N5. Would the seed still be doing its roleblock thingy? Or would it already be a shield?
It would roleblock/vanish like it would the cycle I planted it. If I plant n1 it will role block anyone who visits the target n1, if no one targets the player it is still there n2 where it acts as if it was just planted. n3 it is a shield.
Okay, when exactly would it mature into a shield? Right after N2? Or at the end of D3?
the second night after planting. Trying to translate from flavour to real time. I sent GreY a pm and I'll share whatever I learn from it when I learn it.
On December 02 2012 22:16 syllogism wrote: I don't understand why you keep saying they targeted you, Prom. Are you saying your damage sharing only works one way and it is not, in fact, a protective ability?
no, I'm basing my assumption off of the host pms. I guess Acro is right though, there is no proof for that. I just got cought up in the idea that scum wanted me dead and was trying to figure out why that would be.
Acro: I didn't read that as an accusation. I'm trying to figure out why this happened this way too.
On December 02 2012 21:25 Promethelax wrote: I assume that Clar actually took 325 damage but since my shield was there it was reduced to 125. Not sure how the notifications would work though. I'd have to ask GreY.
This seems very unlikely.
However, what would have been the result if clarity was shot during N5. Would the seed still be doing its roleblock thingy? Or would it already be a shield?
It would roleblock/vanish like it would the cycle I planted it. If I plant n1 it will role block anyone who visits the target n1, if no one targets the player it is still there n2 where it acts as if it was just planted. n3 it is a shield.
Okay, when exactly would it mature into a shield? Right after N2? Or at the end of D3?
No, that was bullshit I made up. It was directly activated, Dieno was protected from death from the second cycle. I wanted mafia to roleblocked me and attack Dieno or attack him one night over two.
Keir: you and I agree on Hapa I see. I still think that the hos error makes him look scummy but I do not belive that he is lying about it and, like you, would probably choose to not play with him again if he is.
Hapa: in an hp game shooting someone for a little is not a bad way of distancing scum from scu. I don't se that as a town tell and I see you not seeing that as slightly scummy. I'm having trouble reading you here because of the contradiction in my gut read on you and my reading read. (scum / null, respectively).
Clarity: the night you claimed 125 damage after my sheild was on you you took 325 but my shield blocked 200. Roleblocks please claim.
On December 03 2012 10:29 Promethelax wrote: Keir: you and I agree on Hapa I see. I still think that the hos error makes him look scummy but I do not belive that he is lying about it and, like you, would probably choose to not play with him again if he is.
Hapa: in an hp game shooting someone for a little is not a bad way of distancing scum from scu. I don't se that as a town tell and I see you not seeing that as slightly scummy. I'm having trouble reading you here because of the contradiction in my gut read on you and my reading read. (scum / null, respectively).
Clarity: the night you claimed 125 damage after my sheild was on you you took 325 but my shield blocked 200. Roleblocks please claim.
Ok ignore the Toad shooting - why would I put such heavy suspicion on Toad and visibly want to lynch him on D2, when Sandroba was an easy bussing option? You're saying that myself (as hypothetical scum), would have turned down an easy lynch in favor of putting suspicion on ANOTHER of my scumbuddies? That makes no sense from a scum-perspective.
in a normal mafia game that makes no sense. In this one I'm not so sure, getting major distance from each other and leading/getting into parties seems like the way for mafia to win.
On December 03 2012 10:29 Promethelax wrote: Keir: you and I agree on Hapa I see. I still think that the hos error makes him look scummy but I do not belive that he is lying about it and, like you, would probably choose to not play with him again if he is.
Hapa: in an hp game shooting someone for a little is not a bad way of distancing scum from scu. I don't se that as a town tell and I see you not seeing that as slightly scummy. I'm having trouble reading you here because of the contradiction in my gut read on you and my reading read. (scum / null, respectively).
Clarity: the night you claimed 125 damage after my sheild was on you you took 325 but my shield blocked 200. Roleblocks please claim.
Ok ignore the Toad shooting - why would I put such heavy suspicion on Toad and visibly want to lynch him on D2, when Sandroba was an easy bussing option? You're saying that myself (as hypothetical scum), would have turned down an easy lynch in favor of putting suspicion on ANOTHER of my scumbuddies? That makes no sense from a scum-perspective.
in a normal mafia game that makes no sense. In this one I'm not so sure, getting major distance from each other and leading/getting into parties seems like the way for mafia to win.
so which one is it?
those aren't two different things. I think that one player selling two others under the bus could benefit mafia due to failing missions. Not real sure.
Hapa: I always have my conspiracy hat on and yes, I always guy read you as scum. But having a null read on you when I look only at your filter isn't something I've experienced before.
Kier: you have a good meta sense of Hapa, your full read?
and that is getting to me. My gut always says scum on Hapa but my brain usually figures him as town. He is not a scum read but he is not a town read either. Which is mindfucking me.
On December 03 2012 10:40 Promethelax wrote: Kier: you have a good meta sense of Hapa, your full read?
Sorry I'm watching IPL.
I don't really know Hapa's meta. This and GSL 3 are the only games I've played with him, and I haven't followed his other games very closely.
Do me a favour. When you have time do a little meta on him.
What are your thoughts on SnB? I've only played with him once before (mtg) and this feels...different now that I go re read that game. That was heavily themed like this and SnB was all up in everyone's face doing his thign. Here he is too back seet to be the same guy but look at WLIIA he was just as in your face but was scum. This, to me, is a new SnB. Also he hit me. I don't like that.
On December 03 2012 10:40 Promethelax wrote: Kier: you have a good meta sense of Hapa, your full read?
Sorry I'm watching IPL.
I don't really know Hapa's meta. This and GSL 3 are the only games I've played with him, and I haven't followed his other games very closely.
Do me a favour. When you have time do a little meta on him.
What are your thoughts on SnB? I've only played with him once before (mtg) and this feels...different now that I go re read that game. That was heavily themed like this and SnB was all up in everyone's face doing his thign. Here he is too back seet to be the same guy but look at WLIIA he was just as in your face but was scum. This, to me, is a new SnB. Also he hit me. I don't like that.
he only has 2.5 games as scum you obs'd the last one and where in one is he that hard for you?
wat? Man, write that again but in English this time. I have no idea what you are asking. Ask Syllo about your roleblock, wasn't me.
On December 03 2012 10:40 Promethelax wrote: Kier: you have a good meta sense of Hapa, your full read?
Sorry I'm watching IPL.
I don't really know Hapa's meta. This and GSL 3 are the only games I've played with him, and I haven't followed his other games very closely.
Do me a favour. When you have time do a little meta on him.
What are your thoughts on SnB? I've only played with him once before (mtg) and this feels...different now that I go re read that game. That was heavily themed like this and SnB was all up in everyone's face doing his thign. Here he is too back seet to be the same guy but look at WLIIA he was just as in your face but was scum. This, to me, is a new SnB. Also he hit me. I don't like that.
he only has 2.5 games as scum you obs'd the last one and where in one is he that hard for you?
wat? Man, write that again but in English this time. I have no idea what you are asking. Ask Syllo about your roleblock, wasn't me.
im talking about hapa
No, I got that, I just have no idea what you are asking? Have I ever had this hard a time reading him? No. I have not.
On December 03 2012 11:07 iamperfection wrote: basically prom for the last two pages you have been" say oh man this is so hard why cant i read hapa poor me". Make A READ
My read is null. Slightly scummy because it is null. Which I have said already. Only reason I've said it so much is you keep asking the same damn question.
Haps, the mechanics in this game are different than in a normal game. We win by defeating lavos, not by lynching all scum. Therefore it does not hurt scum the same way to lose members. I think (though obviously am not sure) that scum could gain a great benefit by busing their teammates super hard early game to get on the party. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this difference from a regular game is worrying to me, you are a smart guy and the fact that you are not being paranoid about this game doesn't sit well with me.
On December 03 2012 11:20 Promethelax wrote: Haps, the mechanics in this game are different than in a normal game. We win by defeating lavos, not by lynching all scum. Therefore it does not hurt scum the same way to lose members. I think (though obviously am not sure) that scum could gain a great benefit by busing their teammates super hard early game to get on the party. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this difference from a regular game is worrying to me, you are a smart guy and the fact that you are not being paranoid about this game doesn't sit well with me.
Oh please. You act like lynching scum isn't a major objective of the game. If you think a double-bus is a viable strategy as scum on day freggin two... I dont' care if it's a heavily themed game - I'm at a loss for words.
double bus when we didn't have another lynch for three cycles and you get to make these arguments...makes sense to me. Sure I'm paranoid because of how I think scum should be played and I usually suspect better players of being scum just by virtue of being better players.
Look, you and Imp and I are shitting up the thread and it is time to stop it. If we are all town (imp is in my town column and you could be town) we need to step it up and instead of chasing each others' tails get back to the business at hand.
Hapa, why is Phag the most scummy player in this game?
Iamp: I have been giving my null read on Hapa every time you ask but you haven't given an anything read on anyone recently. Who do you want to lynch and why?
Phag is null to me at this moment. He was on the townie side of null early but has receded to null. I think I need to read some Phag games to see if he plays like this all the time. I was reading him as more newbie than anything else really.
On November 29 2012 13:06 iamperfection wrote: you have reservations about sylo prom?
I do. I've posted them before but yeah, I want some input though because I am made out of paranoia and might just be totally wrong. (if you aren't sure about how paranoid I am go look at ACME where I intentionally got Acro to roleclaim roleblocker so that scum would kill him if he was town).
i will have to look at it tomorrow but from my natural reading of the thread i have seen nothing.
How did this look go? You did not follow through at all Imp. Tell me your thinks.
On December 03 2012 11:46 Promethelax wrote: thank you for proving my point. We, as a whole, need to stop this. Yes, you are shitting up the thread. Now stop it.
VE=scum.
why
he just hasn't been here at all why does that = scum
in terms of ve
Because VE has done something no townie VE would do. He has waited for others to make cases and made his own cases to sheep those. He also listens to the cases of the people he thinks are scum. (He had Hapa as scum but Hapa made a case on me so I was scum. I made a case on GK so VE made a case on GK). VE=Scum.
On December 03 2012 11:46 Promethelax wrote: thank you for proving my point. We, as a whole, need to stop this. Yes, you are shitting up the thread. Now stop it.
VE=scum.
why
he just hasn't been here at all why does that = scum
in terms of ve
Because VE has done something no townie VE would do. He has waited for others to make cases and made his own cases to sheep those. He also listens to the cases of the people he thinks are scum. (He had Hapa as scum but Hapa made a case on me so I was scum. I made a case on GK so VE made a case on GK). VE=Scum.
isnt ve super active as scum?
VE is super active as a player. Inactivity is not a scum/town tell from him.
also going to end of time with Epoch. Sounds cool and we might gain powers.
No, no no. You don't get it. A town VE would be direct and say lolol no idea whats going on dude over here seems scummy. It is the way he asks to be forgiven for not reading the thread and only makes easy cases on players who already have cases on them which says scum.
On December 03 2012 12:06 kitaman27 wrote: VE, please explain your reason for last night's action...
Kita: please tell us VE's actions.
Hapa, Kei, I'll bow to you both on this one as having a better understanding of VE than I; however I still find him scummy and I'l unvote him if/when he provides something.
Austin: I don't really like how you popped in to defend VE and vanished again. Nothing to add?
Yeah but so are his town games. This feels like such a departure from his usual meta that it is an attempt to hide something. Though him flipping scum in Paranoia does make me re think some things. I am not keeping up with that game at all.
welp my power 100% got re directed this cycle. I had my seed on clarity again but it was not activated and therefore no one was roleblocked by me. Interesting.
Everyone who was role blocked claim your targets. Something fishy is going on.
On December 03 2012 16:54 syllogism wrote: That's why I'm waiting until S&B flips because people who he has allegedly targeted have experienced some weird things (Oats not receiving a heal and now something messing with you).
good point.
SnB, anything else you wanna claim about your ability? Besides the fact that you attacked me with it like an idiot. Let me be clear, without any other aspect of your claim to explain what is happening to your targets I will vote you.
On December 03 2012 17:38 syllogism wrote: Prom: even if it occurred on n5? The night when I also roleblocked him?
well if you roleblocked him it wouldn't do shit to my shield. What are you asking? Also: Iamp got RB'd by neither of us.
I didn't hear about Iamp getting roleblocked and I assumed it might be possible that your roleblock of hapa was processed before mine. Seems unlikely though, so Hapa is just lying about attempting to visit clarity on N5 (since my tracking showed him staying home).
Nothing I have done has resulted in a rb since n1. Trying to work out how to make sense of Acro's doc. All other roleblocks have been accounted for because they were yours. This is new. Or more host error.
because of you don't the damage done to us makes little to no sense. 250 of it was from SnB. That leaves 170 unaccounted for and, I assume, targeted at you.
On December 03 2012 19:13 Promethelax wrote: do you really have 850 health Syllo?
I don't think it's necessary to make our HP values public, but my assumption was that he took an average of our total/current HPs and used that or something.
interesting. I wish there was a way to bc my hp value at you. ah well. I'll leave it for now.
On December 03 2012 21:19 syllogism wrote: I think healing is more important than restoring 1-shots.
Some unresolved mysteries:
- Kita's weird guessing game and the subsequent beanbag game, of which he never talks about again. - Risk's claimed roleblock. Is no one really going to claim this? - Number of mafia. It could be 5 or 6 - Why does Adam want to go to 2300 AD if his only ability is a very unreliable guessing vig?
I was thinking about going to 1999, we have as many members of town as we'll ever have. Right? And while fighting Lavos is probably a quest event I don't see why we should necessarily wait as long as possible to complete that quest; it seems pretty possible that we will have more power now than cycle 12 since we will have been able to shoot each other, omgus each other and whatnot. I think we need to decide now to try to win by eliminating scum or Lavos and either go to 1999 now or not until cycle 12. Thoughts?
oh okay, never mind. Just got a host pm. I was the one to RB iamperfection. This is getting stupid, I can't play this game if my only source of information keeps not telling me things. My seed was activated.
On December 03 2012 22:02 Promethelax wrote: oh okay, never mind. Just got a host pm. I was the one to RB iamperfection. This is getting stupid, I can't play this game if my only source of information keeps not telling me things. My seed was activated.
Hapa: come be mad at the hosts with me.
Actually. Okay. So I am pretty mad about hosts not PM'ing me for half the cycle but i think that proves my earlier point, they saw me blundering around the thread saying fucking stupid things because I didn't know that my seed was activated and they sent me a pm. They didn't do that for Hapa for multiple cycles because they assumed he was lying for a reason. Hapa=scum, VE=scum, SnB=scum. GK might just be bad. He is downgraded on my list of scum reads.
On December 03 2012 23:12 Oatsmaster wrote: Thanks Clairity <3 I think my vet ability is cooler Its called Poximity bomb I can only assume that it gives the pox to all the people who visit me
Why are you claiming things you don't need to claim? Stop it. Go and do some analysis. Learn yourself some things about the players in this game and return with three scum reads. Go frodo, this quest is yours and yours alone. Those reads are your burden and no one elses.
On December 03 2012 23:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Iamp, think. You have 1 ability only? Also Prome, how does claiming ability names do anything?
Hi scum I have the ability which sounds like a poisoner/mad hatter combo. Maybe you should just weaken me and get an event to finish me off since that would be safer for you. I just thought I 'd share this info for no reason at all. trololol I love being dumb. -you
How the fuck do you think we, as a town gain anything from this?
On December 03 2012 23:28 Oatsmaster wrote: LOL I already claimed the use of the ability earlier, get off your high chair of butthurt and get to what you told me to do earlier, SCUMHUNT.
the more info you give scum the worse it is.
see my posts above? My mini cases on VE and Hapa? We call that scum hunting. See my case on GK? Scumhunting. I'm not hunting SnB because that would be like hunting a one legged rabbit as it hopped in circles in front of me. Too easy and I won't get anything out of it but the satisfaction of having defeated the saddest animal in the world.
call me scum as much as you want, it won't make it true. You know my scum play better than literally everyone else in this game and you aren't this thick usually. What is going on in there, huh? I thought protective roles weren't scum? You said your heals proved you town. Now go look at my role and eat your contradiction.
On December 03 2012 23:45 Promethelax wrote: call me scum as much as you want, it won't make it true. You know my scum play better than literally everyone else in this game and you aren't this thick usually. What is going on in there, huh? I thought protective roles weren't scum? You said your heals proved you town. Now go look at my role and eat your contradiction.
you have been going to great lengths to try and prove hapa to be scum. Doesn't seem like your actually trying to figure it out to me.
Nice omgus
did I call you scum? Nope. Not attacking you, just reminding you of what you said. Not to mention that I have played pro town all game and you should be able to get a town read off of me even without my role. What do you do with your scum reads? Sure, I want to prove him scum. This action resolution/host pm stuff makes him scummier.
Actually Syllo I'd lean town on that point for Hapa. He didn't even think about the fact that Toad added damage to his damage. Scum Hapa would know that and have been counting on it and would think of that as an 175 damage attack which they sac'd toad's health for.
oh, okay. Never you mind me. So why wouldn't he use his ability that night but claim to have used it? I don't see the scum motivation. Playing devil's advocate here but please, indulge me.
On December 04 2012 00:17 Promethelax wrote: oh, okay. Never you mind me. So why wouldn't he use his ability that night but claim to have used it? I don't see the scum motivation. Playing devil's advocate here but please, indulge me.
why would he lie?
that is the question I asked. yes. What does scum gain by claiming to target clarity but not doing it when they know we have a tracker.
so, you and I are not communicating clearly. What does scum gain by doing something which is confirm-ably not what they said they did? Why not just attack clarity, or claim not to have visited anyone? SnB and I have both done that thus far.
What is it that a scum Hapa would gain by not acting towards the player he claimed he had targeted? I can't see anything.
I assume we'll get different events, or that people will be differently potent in the party depending on where we go. Or the reward is time dependent. I dunno what but I bet we get more than just some individual bonuses.
Or we protectives did a great job last time around. We'll keep you guys safe though, no worries.
I see SnB claimed scum in the thread. So ah, I guess I'll vote SnB. Also I still like the end of time, I don't get bonuses (that I know about) in antiquity.
On December 05 2012 04:05 Promethelax wrote: Or we protectives did a great job last time around. We'll keep you guys safe though, no worries.
I see SnB claimed scum in the thread. So ah, I guess I'll vote SnB. Also I still like the end of time, I don't get bonuses (that I know about) in antiquity.
You blocked me.
Last cycle was terrible for protection
Scum may also be smart enough to not claim their RBs anymore, I am not the only prot role. Syllo RB'd 250 damage. we did alright.
So, since we are set on lynching SnB do we believe that VE is scum too (I do). If VE just comes in to vote/post once per cycle he is lurking way too much. I don't like his attitude, as I explained earlier, and I believe that he is scum motivated.
VE: if by some chance you are town it is time for you to do anything. First: claim all of your actions up til this point and second give three scum reads and the reasons for them, I don't need a huge case on each one but I do need some reasoning. Go! Do as I say.
On December 05 2012 05:53 Risen wrote: EBWOP: Might be a hidden boost to modifier shenans but that's just speculation I'm pretty sure. Has anyone claimed a boost from going to a specific period?
some people have, yeah. Acro has a nice list post which you can check out. Can you use your account that is playing this game? Please and thanks.
On December 05 2012 06:57 strongandbig wrote: hey so who wants to talk about third party players? i bet kitaman is antitown third party
Considered it but he hit me which is pretty anti third party.
why?
Third party need distractions to go unnoticed... I'm pretty good at creating distractions no matter what my alignment is
but if Kita is 3p who has to kill another 3p wouldn't you be a good target?
Be better to try and lynch me, Kita is strong enough player to do that.
Do you know of any times he has played 3p? I'd be curious how involved he is. Look at risk in ACME, the sk needs to make sure they aren't a top player or target for scum kp.
Guys, I know there are a lot of you online and this is unacceptable.
Opinions on: VE, GK, Hapa, Austin and Draz at least.
I'm pretty much just bumping this thread. Get in here and say some things we have 1/2 hour until actions close so I hope you are all sitting on big night posts.
On December 05 2012 07:43 Promethelax wrote: Well lets help Iamp out, I like him, he likes the present. Come on guys, lets make GreY work for this day post.
You don't like me?
Iamp just thinks *MAYBE* he can get a bonus if he's in a party in the present. I *KNOW* I get bonuses if I'm in a party during 600 AD. Remember how I got to jail someone after cycle 1?
I do like you, lots. I'm not a big fan of 600 AD. Its a gut thing but going there is too easy. 1000 should be more interesting.
because it is creating discussion and no one was saying shit. I am pretty sick of confirmed scum lynches and no one trying to figure anything else out. So now we're talking about where to go in time.
ha! I feel pretty good about my VE case now. Fuck all ya'll for not believing me. Also pretty pleased about getting a lynch again. 1000 AD works for me.
On December 05 2012 09:16 Promethelax wrote: So I guess Oats, Me and Kita aren't scum based on the actions claimed by SnB and VE.
From my notes and recollection, it would appear so yes. With the only person who was in any danger of getting lynched being kita.
Interestingly enough it also confirms that Oats and I claimed truly. Not that I think my role name is, by necessity town. But it seems that all flipped scum roles are related to things in the game which are anti town.
On December 05 2012 09:16 Promethelax wrote: So I guess Oats, Me and Kita aren't scum based on the actions claimed by SnB and VE.
Why you?
Oats took 250 damage. VE only claims he targeted you.
Also Syllo bussing both Sandro AND SnB? Not gonna happen.
Are you retarded? SnB targeted me too. No idea about VE. I don't think Syllo is scum. I looked at actions and I can't justify it to myself. Also think that the flipped scum generally clear Hapa, this team would be retarded to play this out how they have played.
On December 05 2012 10:12 goodkarma wrote: This flip provides an abundance of information.
Kita can be nearly "confirmed" as not scum by simply asking around and confirming that no one else was playing the guessing game the days he claimed to be + Show Spoiler +
(I mean maybe they opted not to use their ability multiple nights so he could do this but I find that incredibly unlikely and suboptimal...)
.
Cave claimed to take headbutt one night. I'm actually not inclined to buy into this as "confirmation" he isn't scum. Headbutt has the unique ability of hardly doing any damage at all. The other of strong's abilities can only be used when a role name is known, making strong effectively in a position of uselessness if he doesn't have a role to go off of. I could completely picture Cave fake claiming headbutt, or even actually taking 1HP headbutt damage + Show Spoiler +
(on a night where scum didn't have a role name to target)
, as scum to get town cred. It would cost scumteam almost nothing to do...
If VE's afk lurk modkill is any indication, scum is disheartened and have given up on this game. Looking for the last one (assuming 5 scum setup) may be as easy as seeing who else has stopped caring. In this context, I can understand how some have decided risk is a good lynch candidate for today. However, I still have reservations. Did it occur to anyone else how absolutely crazy it would be for a mason-type role to be scum-affiliated? I have yet to see this in a game... That aside, I've already discussed how I feel about a risk lynch. I'm still against it.
I will be reassessing my reads either tonight or tomorrow morning and making my case for who I feel we should lynch.
Can you post the logs from the QT (especially those regarding risk). Also, Mad Men Mafia had some sort of mafia-mason from what I remember.
It had more than one mafia mason. I don't think that a mafia mason is unlikely.
GK is hiding his shit. Forgets that his role isn't more important than playing well. We're all at fault for this sometimes. GK: post it all. Also: you are on my townie side of null now. Just so you know. Your defense has been shit but I'm getting town vibes from you.
On December 05 2012 10:32 Acrofales wrote: Syllo might have been taking damage. Talking about Syllo, it is increasingly odd that he is still alive. My mind refuses to see him as scum because of the most excellent killing of Sandro and SnB. But if he's town, scum has screwed this up majorly.
On a similar note: has anybody claimed damage tonight?
SnB claimed to have been shooting me. Also he needs to know the name of his target. My name was in the thread, Syllo's was not. Believe me the paranoia is setting in about Syllo but, and this is important, we have a lot of protective roles. Scum may assume that Syllo is protected every night.
Prehistory - Azala/Black Tyranno (Unknown) Antiquity - Queen Zeal (Toad) OR* Dalton (unknown) *see below Middle Ages - Magus??? (Unknown) Present Day - Norstein Bekkler (VisceraEyes/BioSC) Future - Mother Brain (Unknown) End Of Time - Spekkio (sandroba) Black Omen - Queen Zeal (Toad) Not specified - Nu (strongandbig)
Magus, given that you can pick him up as a party member or not, sounds like it's something Grey could work with. Either as a traitor, 3rd party, something. And we failed the Magus event. Has anyone namechecked Drazerk and Acro? Stuff like magus being ripe for flavor in this game + us failing the event + 'hai guyz i got a bunch of magical powerz' gives me a bad feeling
Austin, I know you love speculating in themed games but it is time to scum hunt instead.
At some point in the game Lavos will be summoned. The powers and nature of Lavos are hidden until 1999 AD. Win conditions are based around Lavos. Lavos will spawn at a predetermined time in the game. If all mafia die, Lavos will be summoned immediately.
3rd party isnt considered anti town in that situation?
That seems to clearly indicate just mafia and not 3p.
At some point in the game Lavos will be summoned. The powers and nature of Lavos are hidden until 1999 AD. Win conditions are based around Lavos. Lavos will spawn at a predetermined time in the game. If all mafia die, Lavos will be summoned immediately.
3rd party isnt considered anti town in that situation?
That seems to clearly indicate just mafia and not 3p.
hey i dont remember but does your role inflict damage on those who visit when your trying to seed
Hapa's ability is theoretically pro town if he uses his flame retardent ability on those he thinks his flamethrower target will target. I wouldn't put it past GreY to have included that.
Risk is well known for doing the counter intuitive thing with his ability or position (see pyp:r where, after the order had been chosen he ignored the plan totally and threw the game into chaos) and his use of his ability does mesh with that.
I'm very wary of Syllo still being alive. Only way I can really see that is if all these low kp night have actually been afk scum. Which, in my mind, points towards a Risk/VE/SnB three man team after we killed Toad/Sand.
On December 06 2012 02:06 Promethelax wrote: I believe it is time for a mass claim.
Hapa's ability is theoretically pro town if he uses his flame retardent ability on those he thinks his flamethrower target will target. I wouldn't put it past GreY to have included that.
Risk is well known for doing the counter intuitive thing with his ability or position (see pyp:r where, after the order had been chosen he ignored the plan totally and threw the game into chaos) and his use of his ability does mesh with that.
I'm very wary of Syllo still being alive. Only way I can really see that is if all these low kp night have actually been afk scum. Which, in my mind, points towards a Risk/VE/SnB three man team after we killed Toad/Sand.
Mass claim. Names and abilities. gogogo.
Your mass claims are invariably bad. This one is no exception.
I disagree. We have too many things claimed already, hiding a few does not benefit us. A full role claim now makes mafia out either their real role or their fake claim. In heavily themed games this can make a huge difference. (See: Aperture 2)
On December 06 2012 03:00 Keirathi wrote: What was your secondary wincon?
If I say that, it is ridiculously easy to guess my rolename.
Is that a bad thing? I mean if you're fearful of another player killing you, certainly you claiming third party and being so overt about it would have ended with you dead already.
Absolutely true. The fact that I took 0 damage for a few cycles despite claiming is making me less paranoid about there being someone wanting to kill me. However, if there are more SnB-like abilities out there, I prefer they hit other people than me. Call it a survivor mentality
Are you Ozzie?
Magnus makes way more sense. His secondary would be to be included in a party or to outlast frog. Both of those make sense lore wise and have been accomplished.
no, it is claiming dumb and if zbo couldn't commit enough time to the game I could see him playing dumb. Those are bad moves by scum or town. stupid =/= scum.
yeah. That seems like the best plan. I have taken some damage which no one else will or should heal that way he also can't 'accidentally' target the same player as me.
On December 06 2012 06:19 syllogism wrote: Healing you isn't a good idea because S&B's ability presumably lowered your max hp by 250 and you only took 210 damage due to damage sharing.
I presume that you and I both had our max lowered by 125.
On December 06 2012 08:23 Acrofales wrote: I can see no pattern based on era. Also no pattern based on "can only roleblock whom he damaged". Mind explaining a bit more?
Maybe we can compromise and I could clear things up if you would reveal your "secondary win condition"
@Cave....still no 16 role claims?
Its less than 16 due to role blocks but I think all of them are in my filter bar 1 maybe
can you put all your claims in one post. For my own piece of mind. Thanks. If you do this I will help you try to take us to Antiquity instead of 600.
On December 06 2012 17:59 Promethelax wrote: that is to say only if the town is comfortable with me, after you act in me, as a party member. It is something to debate, which we need.
You're doing that thing where you believe Drazerk.
Rule 1 of playing with Drazerk. Unless he is modconfirmed town, mistrust everything he says. If he is modconfirmed town, only mistrust half.
naw, see 100 damage isn't a big deal and I'm interested to see the validity of his claims. Also I think he likes me.
On December 06 2012 22:36 kitaman27 wrote: Something that we should try to do is to coordinate our roleblocks. It might be possible to shut down the mafia kp this way.
On December 06 2012 08:23 Acrofales wrote: I can see no pattern based on era. Also no pattern based on "can only roleblock whom he damaged". Mind explaining a bit more?
Maybe we can compromise and I could clear things up if you would reveal your "secondary win condition"
@Cave....still no 16 role claims?
Its less than 16 due to role blocks but I think all of them are in my filter bar 1 maybe
can you put all your claims in one post. For my own piece of mind. Thanks. If you do this I will help you try to take us to Antiquity instead of 600.
Eurgh I can't follow that mess can't you just take my notes
Lightning shield - May be worth using Firestorm - worthless Chaos meteor - worthless Ghost walk - WHY DIDN'T I USE THIS INSTEAD OF EMP Disarm - Usable but not a priority Incinerate - use if gonna be lynched Deafening blast - use if not going to be lynched (let thread decide though) Betrayal - No idea what it did Cold snap - Probably roleblocked him EMP - Terrible Terrible damage Tornado - That will teach him Levitation - Floating in the air....
On December 05 2012 15:53 syllogism wrote: However, 450 is a weird amount of damage to take. Did anyone else target me?
150 damage from risk and 300 from Austin makes sense.
However, that would assume Austin can target whoever he likes (in antiquity at least).
Yes, but I can't. (1) A 300 damage nuke with no restrictions doesn't make sense given what we've seen (Adam gets 200 from guessing, SnB had 250 from knowing a name, risk had some but had to mason the person). (2) Are there any other instances of 300 unclaimed damage? If not, then, assuming I'm scum, why would I only just now have hit someone with that ability?
there have been a lot of hits on town players for large amounts. Especially earlier in the game. Adam is probably town SnB also reduced max hp Risk had awesome mason powers and various bullshit I don't think that a 300hp nuke is too crazy for a mafia player to have
oats: just because you are too lazy to read the wall of text does not make it bullshit. Essentially, based only on role, the last scum is one of Austin/Phagga/Hapa/Adam or Hope
Adam and Hope are both town reads for me. I've mind fucked myself a million times over with Hapa. So that leaves Phagga and Austin. Pretty good for a wall of text.
Austin: can you comment on Phagga defense please. Who is it that you think is scum based on their play? Or what you remember of it. Please make a case on someone based around play instead of role. Thanks.
oats: he isn't lying about dealing with another lynch, these things take time, go look at paranoia. What are your conclusions as to last scummer and why?
Austin: I expect it to be excellent when I come home from work.
On December 08 2012 10:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I didnt, I dont really want to explain why.
Oh those, I hit z-bo, dont know about the rest.
Hrmmm, so on N4 you used a reflection-like ability which hit SnB for 100 damage AND shot Zbo for 75?
you guys should just come out and say it. There can't be more than 1 scum left (balance wise I can't see a seven man scum team with 25 people at least one of whom is 3p). The 75 damage comes from the item given to the leader of a successful party.
Austin feels wrong. Gut feeling here but there we go.
Syllo: how many roleclaims were in Risk's qt? I'm curious that SnB didn't fuck over GK since he knew GK's name.
On December 08 2012 10:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I didnt, I dont really want to explain why.
Oh those, I hit z-bo, dont know about the rest.
Hrmmm, so on N4 you used a reflection-like ability which hit SnB for 100 damage AND shot Zbo for 75?
you guys should just come out and say it. There can't be more than 1 scum left (balance wise I can't see a seven man scum team with 25 people at least one of whom is 3p). The 75 damage comes from the item given to the leader of a successful party.
Austin feels wrong. Gut feeling here but there we go.
Syllo: how many roleclaims were in Risk's qt? I'm curious that SnB didn't fuck over GK since he knew GK's name.
## Vote Austin ## Epoch antiquity
By Austin feels wrong, do you mean he feels 'wrong' as in scum?
On December 08 2012 23:22 syllogism wrote: Kita: you had already blocked drazerk on n7 and I took so much damage on n7 that it pretty much had to come from more than one source. Anyway, I'm mostly annoyed that the game is still going on even though it seems clearly that mafia can not win this. Mafia should concede
I'd appreciate this. I'm not sure we would auto win in that case though. It would probably just summon Lavos early.
alright, I'll buy it. Austin's rampant set up speculation and insane involvement seem reasonable for a townie Austin, if we know he is being RB'd tonight I'm not too worried about leaving him alive. Voting Phagga, look at his post above mine. Look at that proxy voting for himself. Yeah: scum.
On December 08 2012 12:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Convincing stuff austin :D ##Unvote ##Vote: Phagga ##Travel To: Prehistory
I know Oats is supposed to vote in the Voting thread, but he left his vote here. Can't you make an exception for him if he fails to vote in the voting thread in time?
Ugh I just don't think scum would have made this post either. By pointing out the Oats vote, phagga is getting himself lynched...
really dude? Feels to me like a classic self vote as false town tell. Like seriously that post convinced me that switching my vote was worth my time.
On December 08 2012 12:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Convincing stuff austin :D ##Unvote ##Vote: Phagga ##Travel To: Prehistory
I know Oats is supposed to vote in the Voting thread, but he left his vote here. Can't you make an exception for him if he fails to vote in the voting thread in time?
Ugh I just don't think scum would have made this post either. By pointing out the Oats vote, phagga is getting himself lynched...
really dude? Feels to me like a classic self vote as false town tell. Like seriously that post convinced me that switching my vote was worth my time.
How often do scum self-vote themselves? I can't think of any game I've seen it besides GSL 3 when Marv hammered himself in an instant-lynch scenario. And I've seen multiple townies do it (including myself).
It used to be more common. I haven't seen it in a recent game but, as Phagga points out it also wouldn't have lynched him. This is a strong gut feeling for me and I have to go to work now so I'll see the flip when I come home but I urge you not to switch back. This feels all wrong.
Syllo. I plan on it. I've been stacking shields on a pro town player with a vig ability. During the battle with lavos I will be using my damage share with town vigs and pointing my mad hatter at Lavos.
I'm torn: on the one hand I think it is Austin. But on the other I don't get what scum have been doing if he is since that would mean that there is no one they are setting up for the endgame. I think at this point it might be wise to no-lynch, rb anyone we find suspicious since syllo and kita can both rb and stack heals/prots while we hold town kp for lavos.
That is the thing. I'm trying to find a way to make sense of the mafia motivation for any of the suspicious players to be scum. Like, scum had to suck butt for this to happen when 5/6 of them are dead and the last dude is asking to be rb'd to oblivion. I'm just having trouble wrapping my mind around any scum play that isn't five guys dying quietly to set up the sixth for the end game but this isn't a normal game. Long story short=everyone is suspicious. I think hp claims make more sense after lavos pops and scum kp disappears. healers are smart, they can figure out their targets.
because they probably can't hurt us now and I'd like to know. Acro really needs to claim because his I'm 3p thing, while totally believable is also the best play for scum in his situation.
Well if I can't vote for a no-lynch Austin is the one to swing.
GK: can you target Lavos now to charge up your attacks on him? He will be a player and you need to charge anyway. Give it a go.
All players with KP please hold them today. There is no reason for us to damage each other even if we were to eliminate the last scum I don't believe it would be worth it.
I would like, when the Lavos battle begins, for all of our vig guys to claim their kp and their hp so that we protective roles can focus on the most powerful of our attacking players. We need to co-ordinate.
On December 10 2012 11:29 Promethelax wrote: says the guy who won't tell me his name.
I still don't get why you care about the names
a combination of curiosity and the desire to have all our information out on the table because I believe that scum no longer has a way to punish name claimers.
On December 10 2012 11:29 Promethelax wrote: says the guy who won't tell me his name.
I still don't get why you care about the names
a combination of curiosity and the desire to have all our information out on the table because I believe that scum no longer has a way to punish name claimers.
The information is completely pointless though. 100% absolutely pointless.
Not necessarily. I'll know that when I have all the information.
On December 10 2012 12:59 austinmcc wrote: Going to sleep.
I do loves me some speculation, so...was anyone else having similar thoughts? That we've got the remaining scum buried somewhere? Assuming scum DID bury someone, anyone else have ideas as to roles that you'd risk so much to protect?
Of course I've had similar paranoid thoughts. The problem with that is, are we sure that scum knew what would happen when Lavos appeared? If they didn't than they could not have played for this endgame.
Acro also lied about his ability, he said ti was actually a role check. Not an alignment check. And he has used his abilities on Draz for two actions in a row. But somehow they haven't worked. He got a rolecheck on Draz to confirm that he had that ability. But draz died the same night...
Anyone who played WLIIA want to think about what this reminds you of?
Yeah, Austin isn't trying to find scum. He is trying to call the claimed third party the proper target for our lynch. Mindset. My vote stays where it is.
Excellent. We lynch austin. Acro: you are my favourite try hard.
been seeding Keir, no one visit him. Thought the Lavos fight would be a party quest and that he would be taken along, figured it would be best if he had protection.
which is why I think you are scum. You need to go after 3p because this game has gone on long enough that we, as a town, are pretty clear on our townieness. There are only a few scummy players left and you called all the ones who aren't you town. So you went for the 3p. You are scum. I look forward to your lynch.
it is not all that important if you haven't read it. I can explain my reasoning though.
In WLIIA a scum (SnB) took an early lead by fake claiming a town power role but because of the mechanics had to fake a lot of his abilities. He did this by claiming useless checks, tracking the players who died at night, etc. I think Acro has done a very similar thing here in terms of the use of his powers (they have been sub-optimal in terms of the numbers of dead players checked) and I thought that you not calling him scum was weird since there was a recent example of just that play. Since you haven't read the game though it doesn't help.
so, does anyone think I should use my seed or does damage share make the most sense? I think using the seed on someone may be the better choice if we know the last scum is being rb'd. Syllo, you said you could roleblock while shooting, right? if so I'll be seeding a player every day because that should still protect them from Lavos' attacks while damage share will not really help as much since when I am hit that would also be split between me and my target and lavos is random.
Since we are at this part of the game I think claiming my damage output from my mad hatter makes sense. Thoughts?
yeah, guys, our win con is to kill Lavos. Let's focus on that shall we? Great that Acro has helped us get here and last turn where we're fighting Lavos if we have KP to spare I say we help take down Toad but for now we had better focus on Lavos. I really want to win this game and if we screw it up by doing something that isn't in our win con I will hate each and every one of you forever.
I just want to share with someone who is not getting healed. Basically my damage output only comes from me dying so I need to be killed before the end if I'm to help at all so me eating a heal sucks for us. I want to damage share one of our damage dealers so that they can continue to deal damage longer (hopefully, though that random thing sucks) and being connected to two players, myself and the sharee, should make it so I die sooner.
seed shield could work, its a bit of a gamble. It protects by roleblocking so if it is activated it won't do anything since Lavos is unblockable. If it isn't dissipated it will add 100 hp shield to the target so that would be helpful.
I'm honestly not sure which is better but if I target someone with seed shield no one else targets them or it will be broken and the other player RB'd.
On December 12 2012 02:46 TheChronicler wrote: bc not only does that get you closer to death out effectively doubles hopeless' shot ability
Not a bad idea at all. Someone needs to heal Hope for him to get his vig back though. I'll seed GK tonight and hope that he isn't targeted by Lavos, this will hopefully raise his hp by 100 from the shield allowing him to tank more hits.
Imp: can you heal Hope tonight so that he can use his vig powers again? If you do I'll damage share with him next night so that he takes half damage from Lavos and I'll point my hatter ability at Lavos (obviously).
On December 12 2012 02:46 TheChronicler wrote: bc not only does that get you closer to death out effectively doubles hopeless' shot ability
Not a bad idea at all. Someone needs to heal Hope for him to get his vig back though. I'll seed GK tonight and hope that he isn't targeted by Lavos, this will hopefully raise his hp by 100 from the shield allowing him to tank more hits.
Imp: can you heal Hope tonight so that he can use his vig powers again? If you do I'll damage share with him next night so that he takes half damage from Lavos and I'll point my hatter ability at Lavos (obviously).
I'm a dunce and haven't even tried to confirm I can regain my powers, so I'm doing that now...
If you can't than you are of no use to me. PLease tell us asap so that I can change my night actions if I need to and so that Imp doesn't waste a heal on you.
not really relevant, no. I just though I remembered you saying that you had 151 health left. Which now that I write it down reminds me that math doesn't work that way and that the total is 400. No need for you to confirm/deny anything though.
Trying to keep myself interested in this game mostly.
On December 12 2012 06:06 Promethelax wrote: not really relevant, no. I just though I remembered you saying that you had 151 health left. Which now that I write it down reminds me that math doesn't work that way and that the total is 400. No need for you to confirm/deny anything though.
Trying to keep myself interested in this game mostly.
If that's what you're doing, try to puzzle out whether Adam is scum or not. Weird shit going on with him and austin.
My problem is that at this point in the game I don't care. Finding him as scum or not doesn't help me. I still need to do what I need to do and that is protect town assets and hope Lavos kills me so I can hit him. Everyone but me could be scum and as long as they were still trying to fool me by hitting Lavos I wouldn't give a shit. Also I'll start thinking about how many scum are left when we get a damage report on Lavos soon. At that point when all damage is claimed, we'll know how many town are left.
200, I doubt I'll die tonight though. I did the math and even with Hope's 200 to us and both of us being hit by lavos for 100 I wouldn't die so unless we're targeted by a player as well as lavos I will live.
nope. I seeded him and the seed was dissipated. But since Syllo didn't claim anything that actually means he was targeted by another player. So uhhh...yeah one scum left. Going to re-read and figure out who claimed rb.
On December 11 2012 21:12 syllogism wrote: Okay so I went back and finally read a bit. At one point adam warned against attacking him, but apparently that was a false threat. Why did you lie about that, adam? Can you provide a full list of all your predictions so far?
I lied to try and prevent someone I had a town read on from shooting at me.
The last two were incredibly frustrating because I had to submit my night action and then go to bed before the lynch. Then the switch onto Phagga happened, making my austinmcc prediction wrong AND screwing up my next cycles prediction because he was already dead. I think that comes across in this post here
I'm not scum, feel free to roleblock the shit out of me, ill never get one of these predictions right anyway.
These are what you submitted in right? So if I had died on N1, you would have gotten a bullet for N2? So are you saying you submitted Phagga last night even though Phagga was already dead?
The way it works is I submit on day 1, my pick to die from the beginning of N1, all the way through til the end of N2. This does not include the D1 lynch, as that resolves at the 47th hour of the day, and the night actions at the 48th. Then on the next cycle, I lose my predictive power and gain a shot that has to be spent, so I can resume predicting again.
Why austin didn't counterattack me is beyond me. I was kind of expecting it regardless of his alignment.
I took 100 damage and was roleblocked last night.
On December 12 2012 15:57 TheChronicler wrote: Lol dumbass Lavos roleblocked me. Don't know why I didn't see that PM XD
One of these two. I doubt Lavos RB's and shoots the same guy though. So, scum Adam targeted Syllo.
well a player targeted Syllo. Because he was not hit by anything and my seed was activated. So unless someone else wants to claim targeting him it was one of those two. And Risen is town this game.
but two scum would also fuck those numbers. btw I totally doubt that Oats sent in night actions. He said goodbye to me on irc and said that he was heading out of town until January. I'm also pretty sure that he would do 125 damage because of the pistol he got for being a successful party leader. I think those are reusable, though Syllo would have to confirm.
Urgh, wish he wasn't afk. I'd ask. I guess we'll have to assume that it was 75 both nights and that one of those nights was his abilities and the other was his pistol? I dunno.
Hapa: I know you are around. Please confirm your shot on Lavos.
two party members missing. Unless Imp is Marle? I don't actually know the game so maybe that is a healer. Seems like scum having half the party as fake claims is a little over the top.
On December 13 2012 04:59 TheChronicler wrote: I must admit I'm confused why this matters at all. Why aren't we just killing Lavos? Coordinate our hits so acro gets his win-con and we get ours. Aiming KP at people who are not Toad or Lavos seems silly to me.
I honestly don't even care that much. Town is going to win. Scum can't do shit. It would be nice if scum would concede but if they won't I'll just hang out and watch Lavos die.
My only worry is that there is something which occurs to lavos when/if queen zeal dies while Lavos is present.
There was no power which should have revived Toad now. I think it was Lavos coming into the game which made toad live again which means that Toad has to be alive during this event for some reason. Now maybe we have to kill toad for lavos to be mortal (like Djodref on Dieno) or maybe Lavos will be angered by QZ dying as they seem to have some deep conneccction according to the wiki.
Just figured I would post my worries and hopefully discuss them. The fact that scum has not conceded makes me think we're missing something since it seems that they are in an unwinnable situation.
ha! I feel pretty accomplished about this game. Not only did I figure out people's role names through detective work I also realized that Toad was revived by the game mechanics and I found scum more than once.
Our figuring shit out did make it hard to care about. Can't wait to see the whole set up.
Risen: you are wrong. Acro and Memen explained it already. You left both me and Iamperfection alive in the endgame which was crazy. You had claimed doctors early and decided not to hit them. I don't get it.
Toad: thank you for being so sportsmanly when you were confirmed scum not just shitting up the thread. Really gained a lot of respect for you there.
Hapa: sorry about tunneling you for much of the game. You played in such a way that I couldn't see a townie you playing. You never rallied yourself or town in a big way and I assumed you were scum. Once again I was mislead by my own assumptions about a player whose skill I respect, sometimes even the best don't have their best games and I need to remind myself of that.
Zbo: next time you are replacing out consider not posting. I don't know how many people share my view but I think it is relatively bad mannered to make a big list post and jump ship right after. If you still had a cycle in you that would have been fine play but as it was I'd ask you to reconsider it if you ever need to replace out in the future.
GK: sorry for being wrong about you. But, you know, when someone makes a case on you and you respond to a mentality argument with "this isn't even worth my time" you are doing it wrong. Your responses were way scummier than anything up to that point and I suggest you re-think how you approach being tunneled. It isn;t fun for any of us but your best bet is to play pro-town in response to a case and to work to disprove it instead of just saying that it isn't true.
Syllo: I still don't understand why you tunneled me so hard for so long. I feel that I did an admirable job proving my townieness through the whole game and I really don't understand why you didn't feel the same way. I'd love it if you would take the time so that I can figure out how to play better.
Acro: really, really, really well played. I can't tell you enough how impressed I've been with you this game.
I was shocked as other people claimed throughout the game how much better my abilities were than others. I don't think I would have been so cavalier about outing myself if I had suspected that I had one of the stronger town roles, in fact all of us support roles (myself, Djo and Clarity) seemed the most over powered of the non party member roles. Grey and Memen (and Hassy too) you guys were great. Thanks. I know I was a little snippy at you guys when you didn't accurately pm me about night results and I just wanted to say sorry. You all did an amazing job hosting this and setting it up. Thanks!
On December 14 2012 06:31 syllogism wrote: I didn't believe that your role could exist in the game because it felt way too strong (it was) and I thought your claim timing and reason for claiming were both suspicious. There was no reason to claim and you forced another person who I thought was town to claim for no reason. Then you overreacted to my suspicions. Also I thought you initially clearly said something that suggested that your role RBs and tracks, which is what my role does, but it was actually Kita who alluded to that. In retrospect I forgot that townies love to claim for no reason at all.
Is that other person Sand? Or Marv. I had a scum read on Sand and my goal was to force him to claim. I figured a 1 for 1 trade of me for Sand was awesome for town. He is a well known great player and I am an average player who is good at looking townie and not much else.
Thanks for explaining. The claim may have been silly but I think my play fully exonerated me. I wish my role Roleblocked and Tracked, that is also super over powered (I don't get how, when you had that role, you thought mine was OP) and seems like a fun thing to do.
It was not totally a sure thing in my mind and I had already planned on using my role to see who targeted you anyway. I had my game theory argument that one of you/Sand was scum and I was very sure of it. I had Sand as scum from d1 and having a role based reason to call him out for it was perfect. I think my claim was silly, you are right, but it still made sense to me at the time.
I think my role was balanced around the idea of me RBing townies as well as scum, the more obvious the target I went for the more townie protection roles I would block. The guy I was protecting couldn't be healed for two cycles either. I don't really know. I'm actually really curious what GreY thinks about it.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/837/f64/b8f/resized/da-fuck-meme-generator-da-fuck-297845.jpg)
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