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On November 26 2012 10:14 marvellosity wrote:
your case definitely pushes me over to the scum side for hopeless, hapa.
must be the way you tell 'em
Like honestly I'm not all too-convinced about Hopeless being scum yet. He is pretty damn lazy in his townie meta, and I'd be hesitant to lynch him just on "lack of scumhunting", because he has a lower standard than the rest of us. I'm also not sure if the mentality deviations he's showing are necessarily scummy deviations. Though I'm certainly leaning towards it.
More waiting for Hopeless's response though.
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On November 26 2012 10:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:17 Keirathi wrote:On November 26 2012 10:15 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
I actually didn't notice that last quote, Hapa. Did hopeless ever claim being damaged?
With that, I'm off to bed. Sorry for a lazy day, it's not a lynch cycle so we have some time, tomorrow it's back to serious scumhunting. Sorry zbo for the confusion I just genuinely did not see what you were getting at. I did not mention taking damage, because no one has targeted, to my knowledge (yet) Then why did you want healing, when there are people like Dieno who has taken 400+ damage and could actually USE the heal? Who said I couldn't use it?
So you took...self inflicted damage?
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Keir, if you want me to comment on something specifically, point it out please. Hapa hasn't really requested my input on his read of me, and it's not like its for my benefit anyways.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 26 2012 10:18 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:14 marvellosity wrote:
your case definitely pushes me over to the scum side for hopeless, hapa.
must be the way you tell 'em Like honestly I'm not all too-convinced about Hopeless being scum yet. He is pretty damn lazy in his townie meta, and I'd be hesitant to lynch him just on "lack of scumhunting", because he has a lower standard than the rest of us. I'm also not sure if the mentality deviations he's showing are necessarily scummy deviations. Though I'm certainly leaning towards it. More waiting for Hopeless's response though.
i basically agree with all of this
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On November 26 2012 10:18 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:18 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:17 Keirathi wrote:On November 26 2012 10:15 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
I actually didn't notice that last quote, Hapa. Did hopeless ever claim being damaged?
With that, I'm off to bed. Sorry for a lazy day, it's not a lynch cycle so we have some time, tomorrow it's back to serious scumhunting. Sorry zbo for the confusion I just genuinely did not see what you were getting at. I did not mention taking damage, because no one has targeted, to my knowledge (yet) Then why did you want healing, when there are people like Dieno who has taken 400+ damage and could actually USE the heal? Who said I couldn't use it? So you took...self inflicted damage?
Correct.
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On November 26 2012 10:20 Hopeless1der wrote:
Keir, if you want me to comment on something specifically, point it out please. Hapa hasn't really requested my input on his read of me, and it's not like its for my benefit anyways.
I specifically wanted to comment on the "mafia motivation" part. Maybe you could explain your thought process there, before I give what was my take on it.
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So Hopeless, since you're around, care to comment on my post as a whole? Any insight into your thoughts (particularly regarding TheChronicler and Toad at the time of your votes) would help.
In addition, you mentioned self-inflicted damage. Why didn't you disclose this?
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I supported sandroba for party leader and I've failed to do anything in terms of scumhunting, I go on to defend sandroba from a lynch, and of course he flips scum. If you weren't getting scumvibes from me, you're giving me too much credit (or too little  )
The townie motivation is...I thought I was right. I was clearly wrong as evidenced by sand's flip. This kind of thing can't be adequately defended against because I hadn't put any effort into the thread and it would come down to "because I said so" as my defense. Its a waste of time, and I'd rather acknowledge the fact that I look scummy and move on.
P.S. This was not a ploy like the one I pulled day 1 in Looney, this is me being bad. The fact that I went after Z-Bo is because of the day 1 voting, he just happened to have the case against me at the time.
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Im back.
My Current Party will be
Clarity
Dien
Marv
Me.
Any issues you guys want my opinion on?
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On November 26 2012 10:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
btw hapa, as far as general suspicion goes, have you seen what I've put forward recently?
Yes, I read it briefly:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=166#3310
Two things...
1) I really don't get that line of analysis. What about that particular voting pattern makes it likely for scum to have done that? You don't explain why scum would vote Sandroba then not vote to lynch him the next day as compared to other alternatives. I don't feel that it is a super-likely voting pattern.
2)
I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
...the fuck? Like I don't even understand this line of defense. You think you're "more likely to be scum" than Acro and Z-Bo?
What. In. The. Hell.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
his self-pity is remarkably tedious, i will say that.
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On November 26 2012 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
btw hapa, as far as general suspicion goes, have you seen what I've put forward recently? Yes, I read it briefly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=166#3310Two things... 1) I really don't get that line of analysis. What about that particular voting pattern makes it likely for scum to have done that? You don't explain why scum would vote Sandroba then not vote to lynch him the next day as compared to other alternatives. I don't feel that it is a super-likely voting pattern. 2) Show nested quote +I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. ...the fuck? Like I don't even understand this line of defense. You think you're "more likely to be scum" than Acro and Z-Bo? What. In. The. Hell.
what he is saying is that he thinks the rest of town sees him as more likely to be scum. If you read his posts in Draz's voice they follow an internal logic at least.
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On November 26 2012 10:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im back.
My Current Party will be
Clarity
Dien
Marv
Me.
Any issues you guys want my opinion on?
its good
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Hapa, now that you are here, I'm curious as to why you wanted Marv to lead the party over the 'confirmed' town players. I get that you think his reads are better (which is factual) but I don't see the benefit of him leading the mission and, if it was up to me, he wouldn't even be on it.
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On November 26 2012 10:33 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 26 2012 10:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
btw hapa, as far as general suspicion goes, have you seen what I've put forward recently? Yes, I read it briefly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=166#3310Two things... 1) I really don't get that line of analysis. What about that particular voting pattern makes it likely for scum to have done that? You don't explain why scum would vote Sandroba then not vote to lynch him the next day as compared to other alternatives. I don't feel that it is a super-likely voting pattern. 2) I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. ...the fuck? Like I don't even understand this line of defense. You think you're "more likely to be scum" than Acro and Z-Bo? What. In. The. Hell. what he is saying is that he thinks the rest of town sees him as more likely to be scum. If you read his posts in Draz's voice they follow an internal logic at least.
Yes, but the self-criticism is still really strange when compared to his past games. Like his activity this game is actually an improvement over other games I've seen him play in. In those other, less-active games, he's far less apologetic for his behavior. Even as a blue role (vigi in Mario Mini), he was pretty un-apologetic about his early-game lurkiness.
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On November 26 2012 10:36 Promethelax wrote:
Hapa, now that you are here, I'm curious as to why you wanted Marv to lead the party over the 'confirmed' town players. I get that you think his reads are better (which is factual) but I don't see the benefit of him leading the mission and, if it was up to me, he wouldn't even be on it.
Well because I read him pretty strongly as town based on his interest level and general tone (inquisitive, sardonic, etc). I initially voted marv 'cause I trusted him to put a party together more than the other more "confirmed" townies. I'm pretty comfortable with how things are going now, since the parties seem to be nearly identical to I was proposing earlier.
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On November 26 2012 10:37 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:33 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 26 2012 10:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
btw hapa, as far as general suspicion goes, have you seen what I've put forward recently? Yes, I read it briefly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=166#3310Two things... 1) I really don't get that line of analysis. What about that particular voting pattern makes it likely for scum to have done that? You don't explain why scum would vote Sandroba then not vote to lynch him the next day as compared to other alternatives. I don't feel that it is a super-likely voting pattern. 2) I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. ...the fuck? Like I don't even understand this line of defense. You think you're "more likely to be scum" than Acro and Z-Bo? What. In. The. Hell. what he is saying is that he thinks the rest of town sees him as more likely to be scum. If you read his posts in Draz's voice they follow an internal logic at least. Yes, but the self-criticism is still really strange when compared to his past games. Like his activity this game is actually an improvement over other games I've seen him play in. In those other, less-active games, he's far less apologetic for his behavior. Even as a blue role (vigi in Mario Mini), he was pretty un-apologetic about his early-game lurkiness.
well i disagree
On November 21 2012 23:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'd just like to apologize for turning back into a lurker. I'm sure that's pissed some people off given that I'm pretty much confirmed town and doing nothing more to help.
I wholeheartedly would vouch for iamperfection being town this game. But he is the only player 'eligible' for lynch that I am that confident in. I'm going to re-read all of day1 in as much context as I can before the deadline and hopefully have some concrete reads on who is still alive.
if anything hopeless is very aware of how he looks to the rest of the town so it doesn't bother me he said that he looks scummy at all.
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On November 26 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote:
his self-pity is remarkably tedious, i will say that.
Gah I'm so torn on how to interpret it though. Like on the one hand, the self-pity is pretty similar to his Newbie XX mafia game. If you remember my case from that game...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=12#230
... he was very apologetic and passive, somewhat similar to his tone this game.
Howwwweva, he's constantly calling attention to himself and his own lurkiness, which can be interpreted as town.
Confuzzled I am.
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On November 26 2012 10:37 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:33 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 26 2012 10:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
btw hapa, as far as general suspicion goes, have you seen what I've put forward recently? Yes, I read it briefly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=166#3310Two things... 1) I really don't get that line of analysis. What about that particular voting pattern makes it likely for scum to have done that? You don't explain why scum would vote Sandroba then not vote to lynch him the next day as compared to other alternatives. I don't feel that it is a super-likely voting pattern. 2) I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. ...the fuck? Like I don't even understand this line of defense. You think you're "more likely to be scum" than Acro and Z-Bo? What. In. The. Hell. what he is saying is that he thinks the rest of town sees him as more likely to be scum. If you read his posts in Draz's voice they follow an internal logic at least. Yes, but the self-criticism is still really strange when compared to his past games. Like his activity this game is actually an improvement over other games I've seen him play in. In those other, less-active games, he's far less apologetic for his behavior. Even as a blue role (vigi in Mario Mini), he was pretty un-apologetic about his early-game lurkiness.
this is true. I don't like his play at all but I'm not sure he is a huge scum read for me. Though he certainly isn't in the green column. I think I'm blinded by my attempts to distance myself from how much I dislike his play. Similarly to how you are always scum and Marv is always town Hope is always scum. But I'm trying to separate my real reads from my emotions and I may be over compensating.
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On November 26 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:
So Hopeless, since you're around, care to comment on my post as a whole? Any insight into your thoughts (particularly regarding TheChronicler and Toad at the time of your votes) would help.
In addition, you mentioned self-inflicted damage. Why didn't you disclose this?
For Toad, on the off chance that he was telling the truth, I didn't want him taking damage. Otherwise, redcheck = lynch, and he's dead regardless of the damage he may take. It might have made it happen sooner if we aimed damage at him, but that's like playing into modkills. Secure the lynch if you want scum. If a vig helps you along the way, cool, but play to lynch imo.
TC - He was getting pushed by Acro and Z-Bo and I thought he came off looking scummy. I didn't want to lynch sandroba, and TC insisted he was never planning on giving townreads or even using townreads to make his party, and waffled whether or not his plan was bad a couple times. I found it scummy, and the post I voted off of was him saying he'd vote for reasons that are not necessarily connected to being scum (number of votes someone has).
As to the damage, its not like its possible to confirm it, so why claim it? I didn't know what Toad would do, but he admitted to having a heal, and I would like one, so what the hell, might as well ask.
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EPT
