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Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 53

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sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 01:36 GMT
#1041
@kita sup. Any reason why you don't like me as a candidate? It's fair to assume that given your inactivity you being elected is a long shot like it or not. Isn't it time you read the thread a throw your support behind someone you think is town and has a shot?
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 01:40 GMT
#1042
Also I would like to propose we erradicate the use of term scummy. Next time you feel the urge of using it, instead use "this behavior is mafia oriented because as town you would do X, while as mafia you benefit from doing Y". I'm tired of reading that word blended into terrible cases that postulate something is "scummy" out of thin air.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 01:42 GMT
#1043
You will notice it's quite harder to say someone is scum using the new phrasing, because it actually requires you to analyse the motivations behind a post and use your heads for a moment. What a concept!
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
November 22 2012 01:43 GMT
#1044
WIFOM? what is the difference between that and WIFOM?
No gg, No skill.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
November 22 2012 01:43 GMT
#1045
On November 22 2012 08:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh uh CaveJohnson is the topic du jour? I'll get to that.



In other news, I'm pretty sure Kei is town at this point. He seems to care about the thread, though he can do that as either alignment. However, what convinces me he's town is a post he made towards iamperfection:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=23#458

At this point in the game, he was under fire from myself and Z-Boson for a "contradiction" in his attitude on marv. In this position, it's not a natural impulse for scum to go and antagonize another player. Scum here want to buddy people instead of picking other fights. Not only does it go against a general mentality of mafia, but it goes against the more "cooperative" mafia-meta that Kei has.

Maybe your meta read is right after me playing one game as scum ever, but on the off chance that it's not, wouldn't it make sense for me as scum to be less willing to give out town reads, especially on someone I generally find pretty easy to read correctly as the game goes on? If I was scum and he was town, it would be in my best interest to keep him on the table as a potential scum candidate as long as possible, no?
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 22 2012 01:44 GMT
#1046
On November 22 2012 10:40 sandroba wrote:
Also I would like to propose we erradicate the use of term scummy. Next time you feel the urge of using it, instead use "this behavior is mafia oriented because as town you would do X, while as mafia you benefit from doing Y". I'm tired of reading that word blended into terrible cases that postulate something is "scummy" out of thin air.


Are you referring to anything especific?

Also, after a skim through some pages I realized you had a town read on GK, do to your skype chats and shit. Can you be more specific on what is it exactly that he said that made you think him town? From GK's filter, I'm leaning pretty null...
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
November 22 2012 01:44 GMT
#1047
@ Sandro
On November 22 2012 10:31 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 09:49 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:41 sandroba wrote:
I just woke up and there is 20 more pages, I'll respond to stuff as I read:
On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:
On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.


I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader.

As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?

I'm very confident he is town. We talk about reads and games constantly in skype when we are not playing in it, and we get better results when we work toghether I believe.


Is there a reason you consider him so townie? I'm thinking of voting you or him myself, so any reasoning you could provide would help.

I believe I gave a brief sumary to marv already some 20 pages ago. I've played and talked with him a lot and I'm pretty sure I can tell. We often discuss games toghether so I know what's up with his thought process.


Hm ok, I'll look through some of syllo's stuff and see if I agree.

Also, thoughts on my thoughts on Toad?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=52#1024

@ Kita
As much as I enjoy flag-waving turkey's, running a joke campaign doesn't help town here. Do you actually believe Sandro/Syllo/etc aren't good candidates?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
November 22 2012 01:47 GMT
#1048
On November 22 2012 10:43 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 08:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh uh CaveJohnson is the topic du jour? I'll get to that.



In other news, I'm pretty sure Kei is town at this point. He seems to care about the thread, though he can do that as either alignment. However, what convinces me he's town is a post he made towards iamperfection:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=23#458

At this point in the game, he was under fire from myself and Z-Boson for a "contradiction" in his attitude on marv. In this position, it's not a natural impulse for scum to go and antagonize another player. Scum here want to buddy people instead of picking other fights. Not only does it go against a general mentality of mafia, but it goes against the more "cooperative" mafia-meta that Kei has.

Maybe your meta read is right after me playing one game as scum ever, but on the off chance that it's not, wouldn't it make sense for me as scum to be less willing to give out town reads, especially on someone I generally find pretty easy to read correctly as the game goes on? If I was scum and he was town, it would be in my best interest to keep him on the table as a potential scum candidate as long as possible, no?


Well it has nothing to do with your stance on iamperfection - it's your willingness to pick a fight with him when you were in a vulnerable position. That, to me, isn't a scum instinct.

The argument certainly could be made that you're trying to deflect attention, or that it was "forced," or whatever, but I don't see it in that post.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
November 22 2012 01:51 GMT
#1049
On November 22 2012 10:47 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 10:43 Keirathi wrote:
On November 22 2012 08:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh uh CaveJohnson is the topic du jour? I'll get to that.



In other news, I'm pretty sure Kei is town at this point. He seems to care about the thread, though he can do that as either alignment. However, what convinces me he's town is a post he made towards iamperfection:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=23#458

At this point in the game, he was under fire from myself and Z-Boson for a "contradiction" in his attitude on marv. In this position, it's not a natural impulse for scum to go and antagonize another player. Scum here want to buddy people instead of picking other fights. Not only does it go against a general mentality of mafia, but it goes against the more "cooperative" mafia-meta that Kei has.

Maybe your meta read is right after me playing one game as scum ever, but on the off chance that it's not, wouldn't it make sense for me as scum to be less willing to give out town reads, especially on someone I generally find pretty easy to read correctly as the game goes on? If I was scum and he was town, it would be in my best interest to keep him on the table as a potential scum candidate as long as possible, no?


Well it has nothing to do with your stance on iamperfection - it's your willingness to pick a fight with him when you were in a vulnerable position. That, to me, isn't a scum instinct.

The argument certainly could be made that you're trying to deflect attention, or that it was "forced," or whatever, but I don't see it in that post.

Very well. Carry on.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 01:56 GMT
#1050
On November 22 2012 10:43 Oatsmaster wrote:
WIFOM? what is the difference between that and WIFOM?

You are using the other abolished term. Tsc Tsc Tsc.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 01:58 GMT
#1051
On November 22 2012 10:44 Z-BosoN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 10:40 sandroba wrote:
Also I would like to propose we erradicate the use of term scummy. Next time you feel the urge of using it, instead use "this behavior is mafia oriented because as town you would do X, while as mafia you benefit from doing Y". I'm tired of reading that word blended into terrible cases that postulate something is "scummy" out of thin air.


Are you referring to anything especific?

Also, after a skim through some pages I realized you had a town read on GK, do to your skype chats and shit. Can you be more specific on what is it exactly that he said that made you think him town? From GK's filter, I'm leaning pretty null...

Nothing in particular, just 90% of the "cases" that have been posted here. My leaning town read on GK has nothing to do with skype, it was a response when someone asked me if I agreed with dio on GK being scummy.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
November 22 2012 01:58 GMT
#1052
On November 22 2012 10:36 sandroba wrote:
@kita sup. Any reason why you don't like me as a candidate? It's fair to assume that given your inactivity you being elected is a long shot like it or not. Isn't it time you read the thread a throw your support behind someone you think is town and has a shot?


I haven't been inactive and acquiring 4-5 votes to take the lead is hardly a long shot. I've hardly been inactive, my posts are just less spread out. Don't infer that I haven't read the thread because that's untrue. I've been working on several posts the past hour or two. As for my opinion of you, I haven't reread your filter yet. From what I recall, your posts have been logical and reasonable, but that hardly means you must be town.

On November 22 2012 10:44 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Sandro
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 10:31 sandroba wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:49 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:41 sandroba wrote:
I just woke up and there is 20 more pages, I'll respond to stuff as I read:
On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:
On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.


I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader.

As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?

I'm very confident he is town. We talk about reads and games constantly in skype when we are not playing in it, and we get better results when we work toghether I believe.


Is there a reason you consider him so townie? I'm thinking of voting you or him myself, so any reasoning you could provide would help.

I believe I gave a brief sumary to marv already some 20 pages ago. I've played and talked with him a lot and I'm pretty sure I can tell. We often discuss games toghether so I know what's up with his thought process.


Hm ok, I'll look through some of syllo's stuff and see if I agree.

Also, thoughts on my thoughts on Toad?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=52#1024

@ Kita
As much as I enjoy flag-waving turkey's, running a joke campaign doesn't help town here. Do you actually believe Sandro/Syllo/etc aren't good candidates?


Hardly a joke campaign. Hours into the game I provided my initial thoughts, I have been at work all day, and now I have returned to elaborate on my reads after having some posts to go by. I shouldn't be punished based on my schedule. Why have I been eliminated after not having a chance to share my thoughts?

I believe I'm a superior candidate to sandroba and syllo.

If you remember correctly, sandroba's platform was simply a rehashed version of my proposal that players be selected by their towniness beyond all other factors. Still working on a post of reads.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 22 2012 02:00 GMT
#1053
@Hapa
What do you make of Acrofales? I was happily trodding along, and found this post by acrofales, which caught my attention.
On November 21 2012 21:01 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 13:37 Keirathi wrote:
On November 21 2012 13:31 Keirathi wrote:
On November 21 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:
1) "I'm not going to vote marv unless I have a town read on him."
2) "I'm going to vote someone unless he's giving me a 'scummy vibe.'"

Those two statements mean very different things. The first expresses reservation - that you're not going to vote someone UNLESS you have a town read on them. The second expresses no hesitancy - that you're vote is determined unless marv shows you otherwise.

Okay, I guess I see what you're getting at. Just poor wording on my part, I guess. But really, there is no "neutral" ground for me when it comes to marv. Either I believe that he is town, or he is giving off scummy vibes that give me pause.

EBWOP: No, you know what. It wasn't poor wording. It's just you trying to poke holes where there aren't any.

If marv isn't giving me scummy vibes, then I'm going to have a town read on him. If I have a town read on him, I will vote him today 100%.

If Marv is a 3P, will you get "scummy vibes" from him? In fact, I doubt your ability to pick up scummy vibes from Marv at all on D1, regardless of Marv's alignment.

I agree with Toad that this feels like a very cheap justification for parking your vote with no real justification at all.

So explain to us all:

Why do you think Marv is town unless he gives off scummy vibes? Am I town unless I give off scummy vibes? How about CaveJohnson (add other random unknown smurf here if you prefer)?

What exactly constitutes a scummy vibe? I know Marv is rather notorious for hiding his scummy vibes really well. What makes you so confident that your long experience of playing with him let you find these scummy vibes?



He's prodding around alot but some of his interactions seem a bit pointless. Here he comes with the same argument that you and I were discussing earlier. Then, he's overly agressive on Kei about something that supposedly nobody knows (the "value" number thing)

On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:
On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal.


why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view).

If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss.

How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off.


Shouting at kei and shit, but I don't get it. I also don't get where he got that Kei demonstrates any knowledge whatsoever on the success modifier. What do you make of him?
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 02:01 GMT
#1054
On November 22 2012 10:44 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Sandro
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 10:31 sandroba wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:49 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:41 sandroba wrote:
I just woke up and there is 20 more pages, I'll respond to stuff as I read:
On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:
On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.


I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader.

As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?

I'm very confident he is town. We talk about reads and games constantly in skype when we are not playing in it, and we get better results when we work toghether I believe.


Is there a reason you consider him so townie? I'm thinking of voting you or him myself, so any reasoning you could provide would help.

I believe I gave a brief sumary to marv already some 20 pages ago. I've played and talked with him a lot and I'm pretty sure I can tell. We often discuss games toghether so I know what's up with his thought process.


Hm ok, I'll look through some of syllo's stuff and see if I agree.

Also, thoughts on my thoughts on Toad?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=52#1024

@ Kita
As much as I enjoy flag-waving turkey's, running a joke campaign doesn't help town here. Do you actually believe Sandro/Syllo/etc aren't good candidates?

I've read them and you fall in the same cathegory of many other cases here. A townie's goal is also looking as townie as possible to get elected/participating in a mission.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 02:08 GMT
#1055
@kita I was under that impression because your filter is rather short and I fail to find anything in there that provides your reads or opinions on subjects being discussed. When you came back you posted a generic post with several names in red including mine and no reasoning and still never commented on anything.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 22 2012 02:08 GMT
#1056
On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote:
There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.

I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?

Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough.


Well, if Syllogism is confident in that regard, and other members are also in the case sand gets lazy, doesn't he fit this bill best? I'm making hard assumptions because honestly I don't know any of the top contenders' play, but it seems to me that out of you three he's the most catchable, nay?
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
November 22 2012 02:10 GMT
#1057
@ Z-Bo

No strong feelings on Acro. Sure he's aggressive, but I don't know enough about his general tendencies towards aggression to call it. Without a specific meta read, aggression is something that can be done by town or scum

@ Sandroba

I think you're missing my point on Toad. My contention isn't that he's "trying to appear townie" - that's no doubt a pretty stupid reason to suspect someone. My issue is that his campaign focuses on things like "decisiveness" and "activity," which are fairly bad reasons to think someone is a good party leader, let alone sufficient reasons to think someone is town.

@ Kita

Well it's hard to take you seriously when you accuse your competitors of being "vegetarians." What makes you a superior candidate over Syllo and Sandrob? Give us the cliffs.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 22 2012 02:13 GMT
#1058
@hapa uh sure, I wouldn't want toad as party leader either, if that's your point.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 22 2012 02:13 GMT
#1059
On November 22 2012 11:10 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo

No strong feelings on Acro. Sure he's aggressive, but I don't know enough about his general tendencies towards aggression to call it. Without a specific meta read, aggression is something that can be done by town or scum

@ Sandroba

I think you're missing my point on Toad. My contention isn't that he's "trying to appear townie" - that's no doubt a pretty stupid reason to suspect someone. My issue is that his campaign focuses on things like "decisiveness" and "activity," which are fairly bad reasons to think someone is a good party leader, let alone sufficient reasons to think someone is town.

@ Kita

Well it's hard to take you seriously when you accuse your competitors of being "vegetarians." What makes you a superior candidate over Syllo and Sandrob? Give us the cliffs.


Definitely, but his kind seems to me like pointless agression. Like, what are the town motivations for the post I'm referring to above? It doesn't make any sense to me and I really don't get it.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 22 2012 02:16 GMT
#1060
On November 22 2012 11:01 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 10:44 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Sandro
On November 22 2012 10:31 sandroba wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:49 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:41 sandroba wrote:
I just woke up and there is 20 more pages, I'll respond to stuff as I read:
On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:
On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.


I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader.

As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?

I'm very confident he is town. We talk about reads and games constantly in skype when we are not playing in it, and we get better results when we work toghether I believe.


Is there a reason you consider him so townie? I'm thinking of voting you or him myself, so any reasoning you could provide would help.

I believe I gave a brief sumary to marv already some 20 pages ago. I've played and talked with him a lot and I'm pretty sure I can tell. We often discuss games toghether so I know what's up with his thought process.


Hm ok, I'll look through some of syllo's stuff and see if I agree.

Also, thoughts on my thoughts on Toad?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=52#1024

@ Kita
As much as I enjoy flag-waving turkey's, running a joke campaign doesn't help town here. Do you actually believe Sandro/Syllo/etc aren't good candidates?

I've read them and you fall in the same cathegory of many other cases here. A townie's goal is also looking as townie as possible to get elected/participating in a mission.

And do you have any other town reads right now?
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