EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXI - Page 64
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Scum yamato had not much reason to violently object to my claim because if I was to get lynched, 6 to 1 at that time so pretty likely, he would be under a whole lot of suspicion for no benefit. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On November 27 2012 00:38 Kickstart wrote: <snip> Oatsmaster: I think at this point everyone knows my views on Oats, so I won't expand on them much here. I think he is slightly scummy. <snip> After your 1 and only case on me really fucking early, you concluded that I am slightly scummy. And you say your case was good??? | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
And frankly I don't give a shit what you think. Because D1 your vote was on Munk-E, who flipped town. D2 your vote was on Aqua, who flipped town. At this point whatever you think I am inclined to think the exact opposite. At least when I vote I put my votes on who I think is the scum. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
d2 your vote was on me who is gonna flip blue. So if you want to measure who voted worse, I think you lose :D So by your logic, I shouldnt give a shit what you think, HOWEVER, I dont think you are scum. So I am giving a shit because thats how you play, by listening to your town reads, not based on how badly people vote. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
And NO, TOWN READS AREN"T FUCKING IMPORTANT, what is important is SCUM READS. And that is who my votes have been on, who I think are scum. I seriously don't know how you can equate my votes - on two people who I thought were scummy and made decent cases against: to your votes - sheeping onto anyone who isn't you and providing no good reasons for the vote itself - both resulting in that person getting lynched and flipping town. They are hardly the same and I would rather have my record than yours. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
yay for logic. This is going nowhere, I am sorry, and have a nice day as its the morning there :D | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
That being said, you and I are the only two players left who voted for him. I think we should push for his lynch D3 together and get the scummiest player in the game dead. I'm not going to post any of my cases during this night period. Just letting all of you know so you don't go "Well yamato is STILL doing nothing" which is blatantly false. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On November 30 2012 10:05 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont like this post.. It doesnt say ANYTHING at all. So i go from marginally best scum read to only scum read? Bad reason to lynch. Oats playing up to par this game. The simplest explanation for his ENTIRE filter is scum. Everything he's done this game reads scum at this point, because in now way would a bad town keep playing so fucking bad. His "case" against Aqua is in the same vein as his "case" against me and his "case" against CC. He keeps posting utter shit to try to get people to bandwagon someone else to save his own ass. His blue claim is equally the same sort of play. It managed to get enough of you uncomfortable that you lynched a town player. There's zero reason to take this guy seriously but yet CC and SDM have? Why? Let's look at them. On November 30 2012 10:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Okay so, a hasty as shit case on Aqua + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 17:35 Aquanim wrote: It is not. (Apologies, this took a while to write, and yes, I was aware of the hypocrisy.) tl;dr: I believe Kickstart is scum. Kickstart's First Post Kickstart's first post was completely contentless. Some rambling about a previous game he's played, just filling space, and the same jab at Oatsmaster that pretty much every other player made. SDM and Jacob had the same material to work with and gave some sensible analysis. And then, after four hours of lurking... DING DING DING DING DING ...Kickstart jumps on Oatsmaster's CC vote. Kickstart claims Oatsmaster's vote is "anti-town", or "if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play". How in the hell is voting for your top scum read anti town? Especially when the thread has stagnated. Also, trying to remove guilt from himself if/when Oats flips town ("I told you guys he might be bad town anyway, remember?") I'll grant you Oatsmaster is not playing cautious obv-town, but I don't really see anything he's done as being exceptionally scum motivated. What kind of newbie scum randomly tunnels someone within their first three posts? For reference, a post about Oatsmaster which meets with more of my approval is HeloKnight's return #246. Sure, it's not entirely original, but at least he's making an effort. HeloKnight is LOOKING FOR SCUMINESS in Oatsmaster with this post, not saying "Take your vote off Cheesecake because it's bad." Kickstart's subsquent posts don't inspire a lot of town feeling in me either. Next were some short postsposts, which seem to be more about defending Cheesecake than looking for Oats scum. "This is stupid btw, we should be scumhunting." Do as I say, not as I do? None of Kickstart's posts are about Oatsmaster being scum, just about Oatsmaster being bad (specifically, his vote on Cheese being bad). GUYS GUYS WHY ARE YOU NOT PUSHING MY MISLYNCH WAGON FOR ME GUYS And then there was some more defence of Cheesecake. Pretty opportunistic poke at yamato, but doesn't lose sight of his main goal - defend the cheesecake! Kickstart also pokes lurkers a lot - easy to do as scum or town. No judgement here. Conclusion: Everyone else commented on Oatsmaster's read and vote based on how they reflected on Oatsmaster. Kickstart appears to be placing a much greater emphasis on how a vote for Cheesecake is bad. In particular, I believe Kickstart was the only one who wanted Oatsmaster to take his CC vote back (which doesn't make any sense, what's done is done and Oatsmaster will just take more flak if he does). Besides Oatsmaster, Kickstart hasn't looked for scum anywhere else at all, and I don't think his scumhunting on Oatsmaster is genuine. His only priority appears to be defending Cheesecake. There are three possibilities: (1) Kickstart is scum, knows Mr. Cheesecake is town and is white-knighting him. A lot. (2) Kickstart and Mr. Cheesecake are both scum and Kickstart is defending his scumbuddy. (3) Kickstart is town, has a town read on Mr. Cheesecake (correct or not) and for some reason feels the need to defend him vehemently against all attacks, in lieu of any actual search for scum. I don't buy (3), and so ##Vote: Kickstart The Kickstart case in a summary: He attacks Oats (not scummy), and he defends me. This case relies waaaaay too heavily on him defending me. What other reason does he have, seriously? Especially after how scummy oats/yamato were being D1. Then, what I like to call "The Exodus of the Munk Votes" brought to you by Aqua: + Show Spoiler + On November 27 2012 21:41 Aquanim wrote: The Munk-E Lynch - How It Went Down (Votecounts in the spoilers.) 26th November (Before this is Oatsmaster's CC vote and Kickstart's Oats vote.) [4:59] SDM FoS's Cheesecake, makes case largely based on meta. [5:01] SDM votes Cheesecake. [5:18] Munk-E appears in thread with useless post. [6:18] Munk-E makes a less useless post on Oatsmaster. [6:58] Having obtained a meaningful post from HeloKnight, CC un-FoS's him and Cheesecake votes Yamato. [7:02] SDM unvotes Cheesecake. SDM votes Yamato. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake(1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77(2): Mr. Cheesecake, Sonic Death Monkey [9:22] HeloKnight analyses Munk-E's (short) filter. HeloKnight votes Munk-E. [16:49] Aquanim votes Munk-E. [17:35] Aquanim makes Kickstart case. Aquanim votes Kickstart. [23:10] Yamato makes a long defensive post and gives his reads. [23:14] SDM summarises current cases. 27th November [0:09] Kickstart makes an angry counter-post to case against him. [0:15] SDM votes Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77 (1): Mr. Cheesecake Munk-E(2): HeloKnight,Sonic Death Monkey Kickstart(1): Aquanim [0:38] Kickstart posts his reads. [0:39] Yamato votes Munk-E. [2:13] Jacob votes Yamato. [2:16] Cheesecake analyses Yamato further, and expresses the opinion that he "feels like this Munk-E lynch is an easy way for scum to secure a mislynch". Likes Helo, feels Oats isn't doing much. [5:51] Munk-E makes a post on Yamato. Munk-E votes Yamato. [6:04] Kickstart is satisfied with Munk-E. Kickstart unvotes Oatsmaster. Kickstart votes Yamato. [6:11] Aquanim leaves vote on Kickstart and leaves. [6:33] HeloKnight posts on Munk-E, is not convinced. [7:19] Yamato rants at Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Yamato77 (4): Mr. Cheesecake, Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (3): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77 Kickstart(1): Aquanim [7:25] Mr. Cheesecake votes Kickstart. [7:47] Mr. Cheesecake unvotes Kickstart. [7:51] Oatsmaster votes Kickstart. [8:40] Mr. Cheesecake votes Munk-E and leaves. Justifies his switch by saying he thinks lynching a town Munk-E would be better than lynching a town Yamato. [8:40 - 8:55] Jacob and Yamato discuss Yamato's play. [10:10] Debears is modkilled. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Yamato77 (3): Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (4): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake Kickstart(2): Aquanim, Oatsmaster [10:11] Jacob claims he "can't vote for Yamato with the votes like this". Jacob votes Munk-E. [10:17] Oatsmaster and Kickstart going at it again. [10:52] HeloKnight posts about Munk-E again. [11:25] Oatsmaster approves of Kickstart's "vitriol and fire" play. Oatsmaster unvotes Kickstart. Oatsmaster votes Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Yamato77 (1): Kickstart, Munk-E Munk-E (6): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake, Jacob, Oatsmaster Kickstart(1): Aquanim [11:35] Munk-E makes a pretty bad final plea. [11:36] HeloKnight becomes a little more conciliatory about Munk-E's play, but doesn't want to lynch Yamato. ... and nothing more of importance until Munk-E flips VT at 12. At least he wasn't blue, I guess. So, what's to be learned from this? One question is: what happened to the Yamato lynch? Up until four hours before lynch Yamato was leading Munk-E in the lynch stakes. @everyone who switched from Yamato to Munk-E (in other words, everyone except Kickstart): Why did you switch? And for that matter, Kickstart, why didn't you switch? Also of note: HeloKnight made the original case on Munk-E, and pushed it pretty hard except at the end (when a Munk-E lynch was pretty much a lock): Trying to make himself look a little better for when Munk-E flips green, and keeping his options open on yamato? Looking through HeloKnight's filter I don't see much scumhunting substance besides his Munk-E case and an earlier, inconclusive post on Oatsmaster (and let's face it, a case on a lurker with two posts isn't exactly difficult to concoct). I'd appreciate other people looking through HeloKnight's posts and giving your opinion. This post is the scummiest thing ever. Spreads suspicion on everyone that isn't himself and asks a ton of questions that he never follows up on. What the hell is the Town motivation for this post? Playing neutral as all fuck: Also: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR VOTE ON KICK?!?! Town would weigh in on the discussion at hand: Yamato versus Munk. Not keep their vote somewhere useless. You don't give a shit who is lynched. The only other thing Aqua has done this game is push an Oats lynch, which is EZ as FK to do at this point in time. I've seen very little original thinking from him. CC's terribad case on Aqua. None of it is convincing at all. He posts a lot of quotes and puts some stuff in red and everyone sheeps this shit. Aqua playing NEUTRAL is scummy? For fucking real? That's a point in his case? What the fuck. This is REALLY scummy play. Could definitely see CC/Oats scumteam going, "HEY, I THINK I CAN GET PEOPLE TO SHEEP MY AQUA CASE!" "GOOD LOL I'LL POST A SHIT ONE TOO!". Town should get roasted for following this guy into lynching Aqua. He doesn't give ANY good reason for not lynching Oats at all, and then starts a bandwagon on Aqua with just a post about how he thinks he is scummy. What the fuck? The most perplexing thing this game is SDM. Why would someone I read as such a strong town D1 and part of D2 get himself involved in this Aqua business? Surely a good town player would see a counterwagon for what it is, right? On November 30 2012 11:06 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I'm starting to talk myself into an Aqua lynch... slowly. Here's my terrible contribution to the case. Those are two posts that, for the same reason, struck me as a bit weird when I read them. Aqua is SCUM because he seems to deliberately focus on being original in an unnatural way (lol me). After the Oats wagon gains momentum, Aqua appears. Instead of rehashing the good points that has been made before, he's making up 4 of his own. And they are quite terrible (I thought that at the time as well, even though I was in full confirmation bias mode vs Oats). Particularly 3) and 4) are terrible. Grammar lol? Why would a townie be so fucking insistant in making original points for the sake of it? He ignores the good points already made (I know there has been one more nistance of this that caught my eye but can't remember which). I recently quoted this again he comes up with a fucking terrible idea that is "original". It feels forced and makes no sense. And it ends with that really weird hint. One might argue that the Kicks case falls under the same category. After actually analyzing it it just makes no sense, it's just original for the sake of being original. So, what do we think, guys? NOPE. He's bad too. He talks himself out of the best play D2, lynching the scumbag Oats, and then posts a case calling Aqua scum for being ORIGINAL? What the fuck? You guys have railed on me and others for "sheeping", and the best thing you come up with against Aqua is that he DOESN'T sheep? COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT. You should be ashamed as town for how terrible that logic is. I can't even fathom why town SDM would post that case. I am CONVINCED that two of these three are scum. If I survive until D3 I will go after all three until I get to the bottom of this. JACOB AND HELO: You guys should not have voted for Aqua. Why the fuck did you? Neither of you read him as scum. You both got convinced by SDM to lynch this townie. You cannot allow your play to be dictated by people posting such bad cases. D3 I expect both of you to come out super strong. If you are town, you need to take me seriously. Town has had no direction this game. We've failed to lynch ANY scum. We need to step it up D3 or we are going to lose. That means not talking yourself out of scum reads. Not letting others talk you out of scum reads. I am guilty of this, too, but I am standing strong. Town should stand behind me. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
But yeah that Aqua lynch was like the most horrible thing I've ever seen and it seems all the people involved just up and ditched the thread. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On December 01 2012 06:50 Kickstart wrote: SDM has this horrible tendency to go "this person doesn't think about this situation like I do therefore I think they are scummy" ... But yeah that Aqua lynch was like the most horrible thing I've ever seen and it seems all the people involved just up and ditched the thread. And it seems like you have no intention whatsoever to look into what really happened yesterday and make scum reads, which I find really fucking strange. You know what happened yesterday? I stayed up to 4.30am trying to discuss what was going on. You seemed completely uninterested and went to bed with a "I don't understand, wat is setup?". I've been fucking tired today from having to get up early. You have been doing what? Concluding that the lynch was bad. Yes the lynch was bad, BUT Y MAKE NO ANALYSIS? As for my "horrible tendency"? Well, we all can't just copy the cases of dead townies and make them our own, some of us actually think for ourselves in this game. I often think in terms like "does this guy think like a townie?". Had I stuck to the read I had of Aqua having a town mindset this wouldn't have fucking happened (but we still might've lynched our doc). Sometimes I compare how other players react to how I react and tries to understand if the differences are likely to have natural explanations or not. Whatever. Atreides had a similar reaction as you to a similar situation in XXVII. I don't think being you upset is scummy, but your effort level is fucking terrible. I'll use what might be the last of my time alive to actually try to scum hunt now. Keep in mind there's now way scum will NK Oats even if he's doc. Not tonight. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
Come to think of it there wasn't really anything important or true in your post worth responding to. I am sort of wondering why I bothered. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
They were convinced that I was blue so took every opportunity to get off me. If you werent there, you dont know how it went down, so stop criticizing the votes and explain why the change of votes off me is scummy. Yamato, take your confirmation bias specs off and look at everything without it. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
I even had dreams about kick scum slipping by posting graphs that were somehow linked to the scum qt. However the aqua lynch while bad might end up in our favor. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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