EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXI - Page 19
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
In short, I don't see any reason (good or bad) for a town Kickstart to defend Mr. Cheesecake as much as he is, without any attempts to find scum aside from a non-insightful case on Oatsmaster. I don't think it's a good play as scum either, but I can see the instinctive appeal of a "let's defend someone I know is town" mentality - and I think it's worse as town play than scum play. As far as the other lynch candidates go (which I'll define as people who had/have votes on them): - Munk-E really, really needs to post more, but scum lynch > lurker lynch. - My read on Mr. Cheesecake is inconclusive. I was feeling him as scummish initially, but his game stepped up when he stopped focusing on Oatsmaster's vote. - I'm not feeling Oatsmaster scum, he's just too... enthusiastic, I guess. - Comparing Yamato77 to HeloKnight (two players who have similar profiles, I think) I see more purpose in Yamato's posts. To clarify, my feeling is that Yamato is giving more thought into how his posts can uncover scum. Compare their filters, YMMV. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
Will look into it more before bed. On a side note how much time left before lynch? | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
I don't know why Kickstarter would defend me, but tbh I expected someone to jump on Oats for voting me so early. A few did, but he took it farther. I'd have a hard time getting behind a Kickstarter at this time... so @Kick What is your honest opinion of Mr. Cheesecake given newer events? @Aqua Do you REALLY think Yamato has more insightful posts than Helo? Helo was playing neutral, sure, but at least he had the audacity to come up with an original case on Munk with the little posts he had. Imo he's showing way more initiative than this Yamato fellow. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On November 26 2012 21:40 JacobStrangelove wrote: Kickstarter case looks good tbh. I am a little funny about the helo yamoto thing due to having an insane probably wrong read on one of them. I really want these guys particularly to enter the thread. I can't do much more without it. Will look into it more before bed. On a side note how much time left before lynch? What "helo yamoto" thing and what is this "insane probably wrong" read of yours? | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On November 26 2012 21:22 Aquanim wrote: - Comparing Yamato77 to HeloKnight (two players who have similar profiles, I think) I see more purpose in Yamato's posts. To clarify, my feeling is that Yamato is giving more thought into how his posts can uncover scum. Compare their filters, YMMV. Yeah, I'm also a bit suprised about this purpose you see in Yamato's posts. So far the only purpose I've seen is to stay alive. That's both a town and scum trait. However he's lacking the exclusive town trait, to hunt scum. Helo on the other hand has shown some scum hunting and comes off as genuine imo. Saying something like: "Part of the reason I asked that question is because everyone was getting on me to contribute more, but I wasn't finding a lot to comment on" is good sign of honesty. It's also the feeling which goes through most newbies early game, they find it hard to contribute. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On November 25 2012 14:53 yamato77 wrote: I don't really care for your topics of discussion, but that's about it. Perhaps I should have explained then, but I meant that I didn't like the way he entered the thread. His little questionnaire was really, really pointless. It seemed to me at the time something that a mafia player might do to appear to be "starting discussion" without putting anything of real value in the thread. Thus, I limited my posting intentionally as to not really do anything except react to other people and try to get them to give information. Aqua was willing; I asked him his thoughts on me and Cheesecake and he gave them, without any questions. It was then that Cheesecake asked me my opinion of him, and I gave the aforementioned answer. Then he asked me what I thought the discussion should be about, and I told him, I thought us (Aqua and I) talking about whether he was acting suspicious was fine. I called out Oats for calling him scum, which I was not ready to do without more solid evidence, and have not done so yet. My next post received a lot of heat. I posted my ill-timed opinion of Mr. Cheesecake. I was being honest. Nothing looked like worthwhile contribution up to that point, to me. It still doesn't. He says he has contributed, but I don't see anything except a poor read on Helos he backed away from, continually attacking me for voicing my opinion of him, and defending himself. He has posted no other reads on anyone else. I keep saying these same things and they are still true. I want to know what people think of me because I don't want to be surprised by more votes on me like I was with SDM's. I didn't like his voting of me because I didn't think people would honestly give a scum read on me based on my posting up to that point. I suppose I was wrong, which is why I've since become much more forthcoming with my thoughts and motivations. As far as reads on other people. Kickstarter's sheer aggression when defending Cheesecake against Oats is astounding. He uses vulgar language more than once and seems wholly preoccupied with Oats' vote being on CC. He doesn't even care if other people think Oats is scum necessarily, so why did he vote for him? The play doesn't really make sense because all he did was cause a whole lot of uproar over a play that no one else saw as scummy. If anything, THAT seems like a scum play. That being said, Oats is definitely not a town read. None of his posting is particularly forthcoming about his actual motivation. His vote on CC, while initially seeming like a pressure vote, hasn't been justified properly. SDM and Aqua are probably town. They have posted the most real content up to this point and their arguments have been clearly motivated. Helo is a less troll version of Oats. None of his play is backed with clear motivation, but it is not inherently scummy either. If Jacob misspells my name one more time I will lynch him. In seriousness, I think he has posted a lot of fluff and rehashed arguments. I am interested in who he reads as blue, though. I have a blue read too. Munk-E is seriously lackluster. I would vote for him over CC if I made a choice right now. I don't like CC's play but I don't like how little Munk has contributed and how long he has lurked. So to rank my reads from scummiest to least it would go: Munk-E Cheesecake Kickstarter (area of ambiguity) Jacob Helo Oats (/end area of ambiguity) SDM Aqua Me | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
Kick - He's defending CC for no reason. I agree defending people is kind of scummy because as scum it's easier to town reads instead of scum read on townies, because you know they're correct. Kick isn't really making a town read, he's just saying the case isn't convincing. And the case wasn't convincing. Can you really blame him? It's more of an attack on Oats than a defense of CC. - His scum hunting is only limited to Oats. Oats is an easy target and the case is bad, at least according to me and as it seems a lot of others. Oats would be the perfect target for newbie scum to jump on, but on the other hand, why wouldn't newbie town do that as well? - There are some more abstract feelings I've had pointing in the direction of scum. I've tried to cover this in my earlier posts but not done a great job at it. Maybe that's because that feeling is baseless. I do feel like scum usually hide behind his style of posting though. Yamato - Not contributing, just a bunch of one-liners. - Non-existant scum hunting, jumps the CC wagon for no good reason (they might've been good reasons in his mind but they are not allignment indicative imo). - Focusing on defending himself rather than making cases. More concerned about what people think about him rather than voicing his own opinions. Munk-E - A grand total of 2 posts. - Makes a quite unconvincing case against easy target Oats. - Essentially provides the bare minimum to look like he's scum hunting and doesn't engage in any discussions. I'm quite disappointed with my own contributions so far and I don't see a clear #1 candidate. I'm quite suprised at how convinced Aqua is about Kick. It's as if he's getting coached and Debears is giving him that confidence speech. Or he's suffering from confirmation bias. Or he's scum. I'm leaning towards not scum for now though. I'll shut the fuck up for a while and try to collect my thoughts. My crazy ramblings are just clogging up the thread. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
@Munk Who is your top scumread at this point? Also, you mention that lurkers only become suspicious if they avoid direct questioning. In that case, despite being lurky yourself, why haven't you questioned some of the lurkier players? | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On November 26 2012 23:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Have a few minutes between my class and was looking through some filters. Obviously, Munk-E only has two posts so far. The first has a sarcastic rant that dubs me scum. He also doesn't want to lynch lurkers. His second post is a long quote-focused exodus against Oats that at the end says that he's unsure about his vote. Why do you read his first post as scummy? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
Both of you guys, pls start giving your opinnions. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On November 26 2012 23:34 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I didn't say it was scummy, I said that he made a joke about me being scum for my third question. Think you misread that. Mainly confused about why he would do that in the middle of d1 when there was better stuff to talk about. Oh I did. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster, Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77 (1):Mr. Cheesecake, Munk-E (1):HeloKnight Kickstart (1)Aquanim Not voting (4):Jacob Strangelove,Munk-E,Yamato77,Sonic Death Monkey If you see your (or another's) vote to be wrong, it would be kind to notify us. roughly 11 hours remain Remember you have to vote! | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I dont think you are scum because of the joke. I think you are scum because the joke answer sounded so forced that it was beaten out of you. among other stuff. Cheesecake. Opinions on who is scum/town? What do you think about kickstarts case on me IN DETAIL. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
On November 26 2012 05:35 Kickstart wrote: In regards to your case on cheesecake SDM, I am personally not a fan of meta cases (they did not go well at all in my last game lol), I am much more interested in a players activity in this game. I have to agree on the point that he has echoed what has already been said in the thread, I just personally think it is a null tell at this point. Right now I really need to hear more from the people lurking, they've had almost a day at this point to post something of substance and engage in some conversation. On November 26 2012 06:00 Kickstart wrote: I just haven't had good experience with meta-cases, plus since this is a noobie mini I wonder if there is really enough of a history on any player for a meta case to actually hold much weight. To be fair though I haven't played with any of the people in this game so I would really have to read up on them to formulate an opinion on meta cases unless people pulled extensive posts from the other games - but that is asking a bit much this early imo. That is basically why I said I am more interested in this game, but of course a solid case is a solid case, so if one can be made using someones performance in past games go for it. Interested in reading Cheese defense though. On November 26 2012 06:03 Kickstart wrote: Was ninja's by cheese! But he basically defended as I thought - how can you make a meta case on someone who only has two game, one as each faction ;/. There are all the posts where I "defend" cheese, and all they say is meta cases in a noobie game where the person has only played one game each as town and scum is not worth anything to me. If you disagree then whatever, but me saying this is hardly scum, it is me trying to be a logical town. I am not going to just let shit cases fly on people when I don't think the cases hold any weight. With that being said, I will explain why Aquas case on me is also shit. So he decides to start out by going after my first post as useless, content-less, and just a space filler. Well I take offence to that, especially given the posts of the majority of people in this thread. I think my post: On November 25 2012 17:20 Kickstart wrote: Hello all, This is my second game, my first game was mario mini mafia where town won! (we lynched mafia first day and shot one first night, hopefully we can do the same here!) you can see the game here if you want to check my filter: Mario Mini Mafia On the lurker lynch policy, I think scum reads should trump everything because the goal of the game is to find the scum. If someone doesn't post at all then they will likely get modkilled/replaced anyways, and if someone isn't posting much at all then we need to pressure them more. But yeah if someone is hardly posting and we have nothing else to go off of then that person would be a good D1 lynch. On that note we shouldn't get bogged down in policy talk too much because it is easy for mafia to hide in it (everyone can just be like "oh yeah mmhmm lets do that that sounds good" without contributing anything at all or can just keep the policy talk going on for awhile so that no other discussion is being had. And cheesecake all the way. @ Oatsmaster If you really have a scum read on Mr.Cheesecake then you need to make a case on him that tries to persuade us all. Posting "I have a feeling he is scum" is not going to make anyone throw their vote on him. Would you maybe expand a bit on why you think he is suspicious or if you still do? Is much better than almost anyone's first post, and it has substance. I quickly say what needs to be said about policy because focusing on it too much is horrid as town, and I point out some shit play coming out from oatsmaster. Then I get accused of "lurking" because I didn't post for four hours. I am not sure if this is a serious accusation or him grasping at straws to try and make a case. But frankly it is ridiculous, it is the start of the game, I posted a perfectly good introduction post that asked questions of people, and I was waiting for the answer. How you could possibly accuse ME of lurking in this thread is beyond me given the activity that I have had compared to others. But I will write it off as an attempt to bolster your "case" on me. Then the rest of your "case" is just me going after Oatsmaster in an opportunistic way. For one, I am the FIRST person who was telling him to step up his posts in the beginning and I called him out for giving a half-assed vote without ANY explanation. AND HE IS STILL FUCKING DO IT, LOOK AT HIS RECENT POST: On November 26 2012 16:05 Oatsmaster wrote: I have a strong feeling that he is scum. I cant prove it due to having less than 10 posts to analyse. On the fence means that I didnt see anything from him to change my vote. Really? I pointed out the fact that saying "well there isn't much to go off of" and then saying you feel he is scum is really, really, silly - but Oats just continues to tunnel Cheese. I have just pointed out that Oats is playing horrible and that I am suspicious of it. And my case on Oats is not meaningless as you would like to paint it to be, look at his posting - completely confusing and doesn't drive any discussion at all; he is then asked to please give some real reasons and sound logic for his votes and he refuses while just continuing to post nothing of substance. And it also seems to me that a shitty wagon on Cheese has formed that he is all too keen to sit on. Now again I must say I don't know if Cheese is town or not, but the case against him is crap and not convincing to me at all. Could he still be scum? Yes, but I won't be voting on crap cases, and other than a few horrible cases on him there is nothing; as is the case with this "case" on me. | ||
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