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On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread.
I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about:
On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?
I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone.
I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone
And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me)
I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read.
Yes this is an OMGUS vote.
##Vote: debears
Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass?
Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Hopeless, what do you think of iamp right now?
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I think hes null. I found the phrase "tell me" (more/please/what you know) alot in his filter and thought I could use that against his meta somehow, but he says it as either alignment best I can tell.
Liquid City he barely explains his reasoning, he was blue.
GSL II, similar traits, but scum.
I'd rather lynch BH over iamperfection today if that puts anything in perspective. That is not me saying I want to lynch BH, he's just higher on the list than perfection.
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On November 14 2012 22:30 Hopeless1der wrote:
I think hes null. I found the phrase "tell me" (more/please/what you know) alot in his filter and thought I could use that against his meta somehow, but he says it as either alignment best I can tell.
Liquid City he barely explains his reasoning, he was blue.
GSL II, similar traits, but scum.
I'd rather lynch BH over iamperfection today if that puts anything in perspective. That is not me saying I want to lynch BH, he's just higher on the list than perfection.
So you no longer find how iamp flipflopped on Z-Boson particularly scummy?
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I hadn't really looked at debears in the manner of how many people he'd talked about. I'll have to look into that :x
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Its still slightly scummy, but the scum motivation is to help BH start a bandwagon to me, and that requires BH to flip. His lack of explaining himself properly is annoying, but I can't call it a scumtell after reviewing his last handful of games.
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Getting ready for/going to work, be back in 2-3 hours.
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On November 14 2012 11:21 Hapahauli wrote:
Easy on the claim stuff guys - it's pointless to argue about something that already happened unless you actually think BH's claim is scummy - and it's too suicidal to be scummy IMO. He could be scum, but it's pretty unlikely.
BH - can I get your thoughts on Debears?
lol hapa
this post almost persuaded me to vote for BH
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just as i'd decided to vote you, now i don't want to anymore. this is annoying.
##unvote
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On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
I wanna lynch darthpunk. I remember his town play as somewhat aggressive and stubborn, and what I'm seeing from him in this game is completely different from that impression. I still think the whole snb 4 votes early on thing was a little silly and probably had scum behind it.
I can get behind this part (bolding by me)
Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:
I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine.
The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B. You unvoted snb, who you originally voted for because of a dumb reason, in order to vote for clarity who had voted for snb because of a dumb reason?
man though
when will people start to realize - "you were inconsistent" is not sufficient to establish that someone is scum. You either have to show that their inconsistency has a scum motivation or you have to show that from a particular player, being inconsistent is a scum tell based on their meta. Townies change their mind too! Just saying "scum like to be inconsistent" is not sufficient!
Scum motivations for being inconsistent are things like
(-) going along with whatever the thread sentiment is at the time
(-) buddying whoever has thread control
(-) appearing to contribute without having to take strong positions
(-) switching off of scum buddies or onto strong townies when a bandwagon goes further than they expected
You can't just say "lol an inconsistency! Scum!" You have to do quite a bit more work than that.
Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit.
I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is.
Specifically, this is what i'm talking about with dp's tone. This... ...is not what I expect from dp. I expect him to be argumentative and to challenge anyone who accuses him of being wrong. I don't like his votes/unvotes for snb or the explanations for the votes. His last voting action was an unvote, and the next 8 posts contain mainly fluff and jokes, not much information that's pertinent to the thread.
this is better - at least it's actually a real argument for him being scum. It's fundamentally a meta case, and therefore it would be better with quotes from other games by darthpunk or at least a guide for what other people should look for in his filter in specific games of his, but darthpunk is usually kind of a character so the case is easier to make here.
Summary: He took the easy vote on snb and was wishy washy about it (voting then unvoting then voting then unvoting) because he knows the vote looks bad. After voting the first time, he unvoted then challenged clarity for doing the exact same thing that dp himself did (hasty bandwagon voting for snb) and then he unvoted for a final time and his filter after that point contains no scumhunting or any of his reads/thoughts.
##Vote: Darthpunk
The other people that voted for snb during that time were hapa, clarity, and boson. With boson... the miller claim didn't seem to come at the right time to be a scum fakeclaim. I'd expect fake claims to come along much later after everyone has been given a chance to post/claim. Hapa, I'm wary of. BH made a comment along the lines of "whoever voted for snb is bad or scum," and hapa is definitely not bad. But he as well as clarity continued giving reads and interacting with the thread after the snb stuff, while dp has been wishywashy with his vote and not talked about much of anything else. The snb bandwagon grew so quickly that I think it's very likely that there were scum behind it, and dp looks scummiest out of all of them. There was his original voting/unvoting, not following through with any reads afterwards and having a fluffy filter, and being extremely peaceful and not willing to get in fights. That's the exact opposite of town dp.
Bolding by me - these are the central points of this case.
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On November 14 2012 11:22 marvellosity wrote:
my rage is perfectly coherent.
what's even more infuriating is that you don't understand why you are bad.
any sensible townie would argue his way out of his lynch (3 votes, cmon) and only if necessary, a few hours from deadline, claim if he could absolutely not avoid getting lynched.
Jailkeeper is a very strong role and now you've made it so it cannot protect anybody, plus a confirmed bluesnipe on you, if you are town. Which I'm not even convinced of yet, I just can't bring myself to lynch the claim day 1.
Marv come the fuck on. blazinghand obviously knows this. He had such a good time trolling keirathi in Whose Line before that game's premature end, that he wants to keep it up now.
I will give 2:1 hat-eating odds that blazinghand's claim is fake. idk whether that makes him scum or town, but I'm inclined to think scum.
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On November 14 2012 11:35 marvellosity wrote:
thrawn dear, where indeed have you been?
The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours.
hmm apparently both marv and bh disagree with me for agreeing that dp is usually more aggressive and in-your-face and not-wishy-washy than he is in this game. I'm pretty sure that at least one of marv and bh is town, if they were both scum BH wouldn't have claimed like that. I'll have to think a little bit or reread some darthpunk history if I really want to vote for him I guess.
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On November 14 2012 22:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:35 marvellosity wrote:
thrawn dear, where indeed have you been?
The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours. hmm apparently both marv and bh disagree with me for agreeing that dp is usually more aggressive and in-your-face and not-wishy-washy than he is in this game. I'm pretty sure that at least one of marv and bh is town, if they were both scum BH wouldn't have claimed like that. I'll have to think a little bit or reread some darthpunk history if I really want to vote for him I guess.
Please do.
What you need to look at, s&b, is his scum games. It's no use saying "he's not this wishy washy as town" - because I completely agree with this, he isn't.
He's not as scum either, though.
To the bold: quite.
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Votecount:
DarthPunk (3): Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand
debears (3): strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1der
Hopeless1der (1): debears
Hapahauli (1): Kickstart
Not voting (5): Crossfire99, DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, iamperfection, marvellosity
Currently, DarthPunk is set to be lynched! A tad longer than 12 hours remaining in Day 1.
Please PM any of your resident votecount bitches (or mighty master Keir) if your vote is counted wrongly.
Full version:
+ Show Spoiler +DarthPunk (3): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand
debears (3): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder
Hopeless1der (1): debears, marvellosity
Hapahauli (1): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
Z-BosoN (0): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Not voting (5): Crossfire99, DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, iamperfection, marvellosity
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On November 14 2012 11:59 DarthPunk wrote:That game is one of the specific ones I'm thinking of in regards to dp's town play. He stays on his targets till he gets a flip, he is sorta.. aggressive.. with his language, especially when people are disagreeing with him. This game he's made extremely questionable votes while not pushing his reads. Town dp reads as the most convicted guy ever and that's not what i'm seeing this game.
The reason I don't sound convicted is that I literally have no convictions whatsoever right now. I am barely keeping up with the game. I am spending obscene amounts of time reading filters in my other game.
Once I have some clue as to the state of the game. I will be busting peoples balls and generally aggressive as per usual.
Do you think as scum I couldn't fake some contributions by now? and get all up in your faces about it. The reason I am not is because I care about being right and I have not put enough thought nor analysed enough information to be right about much at all.
My strongest read so far was a town read on BH when he was under pressure. But then he claimed JK so I didn;t need to defend him as I was planning to.
Like. What you are saying is reasonable. But playing twow games is kicking my arse and I just don;t have the time to play as well as I would like to.
Lynching me is a mislynch.
[/QUOTE]
meh this is a decent explanation for the meta mismatch.
Thrawn, still read what I said about your case. Part of it was decent and quite well-written, part of it was stupid.
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next person that says i haven't explained something please point to exactly where i havent explained something.
Debars i have explained exactly everything i thought about zbos in this post
On November 14 2012 08:26 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 08:10 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 07:26 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 07:21 marvellosity wrote:
no Hapa, the point is you're not putting yourself in scum iamp shoes, not town iamp shoes. His rationale and motive make sense to me from a scum perspective - I've already mentioned that. Making a 180 when spurred by another case is scummy and convenient. I realize you disagree, but I think you're wrong. And to draw comparisons to the read on Kei you mentioned in GSL III - I find imaperfection's actions alone much more scummy than Kei's actions in GSL III. Kei has a history of reluctant D1 play. Iamperfection doesn't have a history of these things in his town play to my knowledge. Hapa tunnels me almost always regardless of mine or his alignment i dont get why he seems to think ive committed some sort of crime but whatever he can continue to waste time on me or go for something more legitimate. Either way his tunneling of me doesn't tell me anything about his alignment for the time being. However hapa eventually opens up in his decision making process if he is town. Hapa if your scum just continue to waste my time because it will become so clear that your scum. I did what i did you didnt like it tough for you. Either go cry in corner about it if your scum or find some actual scum. @ iampCan you explain your thought process on Z-Bo to me because I just can't understand it. Why were you so initially convinced he was town based on his claim? Is the case you posted on him the only things you find scummy about him? I can't connect the dots. alright my thinking early on when i first saw it was i thought it would be pretty ballsy to do as scum since i thought a scum would have to worry about another miller claiming and it kind of put himself out there. I already outlined later when i voted for him that his actions made me think that he was scum at that time. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:04 iamperfection wrote:On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:On November 13 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote:
Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think. Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum. From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game. you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum. Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking. The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o. Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even. Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller. That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously. LOL dont you dare talk down to me you little punk. You criticize me when YOU were the one being all terrible with your first couple of posts. Being all herp derp i don't have to contribute even though interesting things were happening at the time. Give me a break But that being said ## Unvote Your case on zbos reminds me more of your play from rockband more then the way you were being early on. Lokking at what zbos has posted especially this crap which bh pointed out On November 13 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:Loving the activity so far. What I'm not loving is the excess of activity coming from debears. He's being very chit-chatty this game and here's what I find very interesting. He has commented on every single little thing on this game and is posting a ton (which by itself is anti-town, as it clogs up the thread and makes it difficult to read), but when dealing with the only significant thing that has yet happened in this thread, he simply shrugs it off as: On November 13 2012 09:46 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Eh. If it's down to lylo we'll need to take a strong look at it if he's alive. Other than that, nothing much to talk about with the claim For someone who is analytical enough to attempt to judge marv's early game reactions, he's sure not being analytical about my claim. This smells scummy to me. ##vote debears If you look closely debears never said anything about being able to tell if marv is town or not from an anyltical standpoint he made it pretty clear that it was not the case and that he had said he was simply going to vote for him no matter what. Zbos totally misrepresents what is being said here and if he has the courage to throw a vote out for it you would have thought he would have read clearly what he was in fact voting for. On November 13 2012 11:05 Z-BosoN wrote:@Hapa: To be honest, I've had an opposite reaction from iamp's trusting of me. I think scum would think twice before openly accepting any townie claim. In his last scum game, iirc, he was much pickier on his town reads. May be wrong here. @debearsOn November 13 2012 10:16 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote:
also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one Glad I beat you to it. Interesting way to claim VT though. Actually I find that suspicious as fuck. ##Unvote##Vote strongandbigDebears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?". z-bo, I face an onslaught of fluff accusations d1 last game. And, in the end, was night killed d1 after having 2/3 of my top reads being the two scum :D Great, grats. So you suffer an onslaught of fluff accusations day one, and yet you still plague the thread with fluff? Do you find nothing wrong with that? @marvSo you say that you fit best the description of actively lurking, and pretty much continue to do that? Tell me more. This post here is also another pile of crap and its the iamperfection rule of whoever defends me is probably scum. If he cared at all to check in gsl III where i was scum which he played in lollololol i thrw around 2 strong town reads early on he should know this and the fact that he isnt willing to do any legwork in order to find out is more evidence not in his favor. This post is also extremly wishy washy on everything he said. I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. so ## Vote zboson Since then his case on bh, which i completely disagree bh with, it wasnt omgus and his further pushing of that case when he found it to be unsatisfactory response make me know think he more than ever he is likely to be town. he did that here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=33#643Zbos is being open in his thought process and he is actively pushing his read i find that to be a town attribute and makes me think even more with his prodding of bh that he is likely to be town.
If thats not good enough too bad.
As to your other point on guilty conscience or whatever i do in fact do think about how my posts look to the town and i do this regardless of alignment i was well aware that i said i had town view of zboson early on. I think its a mute point.
As to you hopeless i dont know what your talking about not explaining myself in liquid city i was doing a fine job untill i went full retard untill the last day so if you want to point to something specific ill gladly answer but don't waste my time in saying things that are false.
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On November 14 2012 22:51 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:59 DarthPunk wrote:On November 14 2012 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote:That game is one of the specific ones I'm thinking of in regards to dp's town play. He stays on his targets till he gets a flip, he is sorta.. aggressive.. with his language, especially when people are disagreeing with him. This game he's made extremely questionable votes while not pushing his reads. Town dp reads as the most convicted guy ever and that's not what i'm seeing this game. The reason I don't sound convicted is that I literally have no convictions whatsoever right now. I am barely keeping up with the game. I am spending obscene amounts of time reading filters in my other game. Once I have some clue as to the state of the game. I will be busting peoples balls and generally aggressive as per usual. Do you think as scum I couldn't fake some contributions by now? and get all up in your faces about it. The reason I am not is because I care about being right and I have not put enough thought nor analysed enough information to be right about much at all. My strongest read so far was a town read on BH when he was under pressure. But then he claimed JK so I didn;t need to defend him as I was planning to. Like. What you are saying is reasonable. But playing twow games is kicking my arse and I just don;t have the time to play as well as I would like to. Lynching me is a mislynch. meh this is a decent explanation for the meta mismatch. Thrawn, still read what I said about your case. Part of it was decent and quite well-written, part of it was stupid.
a hearty fuck to whoever screwed up the quote tags in that chain, it's not hard >
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
iamp, who do you wanna lynch buddy
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On November 14 2012 12:31 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:19 Kickstart wrote:
I am down for flipping you and BH at this point. I am not really interesting in arguing with you about it - I find the fact that I was down for voting BH and you, then after him claiming jk just voting for you to be perfectly reasonable. Again I want other people to weigh in though. You're fine with flipping either of two vets? I'm not comfortable lynching either bh marv or hapa on D1 unless there's some huge scumslip.
QQ why do I suck
i've been playing longer than hapa and exactly as long as marv plus i just had one of my best games ever T_T
i just need to stop spending half my games tunneling drazerk ;P
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right now i would not like to lynch debars since he was some what stubborn and agressive in his approach to me so i would like him to stick around
I would be more understanding of DP if he had 3 or 4 games but i think he is a big enough boy to handle to 2 games and the best he can do is cast some idle suspicion with out any reasons? Ya he can go.
##Vote Darthpunk
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EPT
