EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXX
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 02 2012 22:08 marvellosity wrote: But I wanted to argue!For Alsn's eyes: 2-2 or 1-1 during the day counts as mafia victory, no hammer rushing needed. Presume all rules take a common sense approach like that. Setup is fairly simple this time around though. 1 spot remains. *shakes fist* | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
 Edit: That being said, there's nothing to say hosts can't do whatever the fuck they want when they decide roles. :| | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 03 2012 09:35 debears wrote: Trying to rush us are you?Lets get it on ##Vote: debears | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 03 2012 10:04 debears wrote: I like it how you say 99% of the time, yet I know from reading XXIX's scum QT that you were away on purpose for the last lynch. I also bet you haven't yet participated in anywhere near 100 lynches, so technically that's a lie. Although, I probably should have paid more attention to what you actually voted for that game as opposed to whether or not you were actually around so I'll let that one slide.If I'm not here for lynch, its irl conflicts 99% of the time. Don't pull an Alsn I'm Alsn, I'll be around for flip-time generally, but they happen at 1 am local time so don't expect me to stick around for too long afterwards. Prior games include XXV(VT), XXVIII(VT) and XXIX also as VT. And yea, if given the choice between weak scum reads and hardcore lurkers, I'll hunt down and feed the hardcore lurker gone off cheesecake first chance I get. That being said, I'm off to lurk(also known as sleep, for those of you concerned with base things such as human metabolic function). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 03 2012 10:28 debears wrote: Argue however much you want, you were missing from the thread on purpose. The fact that you were away because of something I said is besides the point. Hand waving away someone not being around because of IRL issues is a mistake I'm not libel to repeat. A lie? I've played in 3 games. With what? 3 lynches each. I only missed the last one cuz you said you would unvote my scum teammate if i didn't come back. So that's 90%. Not a lie. I was there only 45 minutes before the lynch, after u said that you weren't voting dandel if i was afk l. If you didn't say that, i wouldve come back. If fact, for mafia it is usually dumb to not be active around lynch due to the suspicion it causes and the lack of control ot gives the scumteam FOS Alsn for real. You know better than to call me a liar like that especially when 1) its an exaggeration if anything and not a lie and 2) when being afk around lynch is usually bad for scum However, like I said, unless there's something inherently scummy by not being around I won't hold it against you. I got hung up on the fact that you were missing much more than what actually happened while you were missing last game. The fact that you're saying it's not a lie is hilarious though, 90% vs 99% is a massive difference. I admit, it's nit picking, but it's still a lie. Don't think I'll make the same mistake and give everyone a second chance because they claim IRL issues. Especially when it's done like you just did as some kind of magic explanation as to why we should always expect that if you are away, it's all right, you've got stuff to do, we should just trust you. It's way too convenient. And you instantly FOSing me for it suggests to me that you know it was a dumb thing to say but don't want to admit it. I'm really heading off to bed now but I expect better than knee-jerk reactions and stupid statements like "99% chance that I have pure intentions, trust me I promise!" or I'll definitely look out for you heading forward. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Taking a look at Djodref's reason, he seems to consider "casting suspicion" to be a scum slip, yet that would mean he considers a FOS a scum slip? Because that's essentially what a FOS is, casting a finger of suspicion on someone. Particularly, debears used his vote against da0ud in essentially the same way(as a way to paint suspicion against da0ud and get him to right his path), yet Djod did not find debears suspicious enough to vote him. This coupled with the fact that he made a case against Cheese based on jokes suggests to me that he's grasping at straws. FoS Djodref Debears on the other hand is OMGUS voting. His points 1 and 2 contradicts each other, his point 8 mentions a supposed scum slip when the paragraph is merely an answer to what sylver thinks about lurker policy, something which debears brought up in the first place! Saying that the town seems more dedicated when there's not a single truly lurking player in the game(at least considering the short amount of time the game has been up) seems about as genuine an answer that one can give at this point. Debears, how about you either start addressing sylver's points instead of your list of bullet points which are almost all entirely wrong or contradictory(3 is flat out wrong, sylver did in fact point out that you had content, but that it was buried among your - according to him fluffy - other posts. Which would be the opposite of neglecting to mention). You've also now used the "omg he ran away after posting so I can't question him!" twice, first against me, now against him. Why is it people sticking around until it suits you a requirement for being town? Also, you were keen on pointing out that you thought sylver considered you town as something scummy, yet at the same time you point out that you are among the most active players, painting yourself as some beacon of townieness. You did the same the last game where you called out Djod for "defending you" in order to state to the thread that "oh look! scum thinks I'm town!". Also coupled with the argument that someone else made(sorry, I don't remember right now) that you seemed to be bullying Obzy and creating a bad town atmosphere definitely fits your scum profile. FoS debears I find it unlikely that both of you are scum at this point, but I find the behaviour of both of you worrisome. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:13 debears wrote: debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho.You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Now that's something I can believe has a chance of actually being a scum slip. Nice find.So, you say that town players shouldn't vote as a pressure move / attract suspicion to someone? You used your vote last game on Inig as vote pressure: Same with Nack: You obviously believe in vote pressure to cast suspicion from a townie perspective. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 03 2012 23:44 debears wrote: 1) Sylver had obviously been following the thread before this post, yet he posts it AFTER I leave the thread. This is especially alarming considering he suddenly accuses and votes me for terribad reasoning 2) It's a big post, showing that he had it written for a while You say it's a big post and that it must have taken a while to write, yet you don't even acknowledge the possibility that maybe that's why you weren't around any more? Because it had taken him a lot of time to write it and you had simply left at that point? Given your point 2) I don't see how you can at the same time accuse him of deliberately waiting until you were gone. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:49 debears wrote: That part of his post, sure, I agree that it's somewhat a silly statement. It doesn't change the fact that you had been acting very strangely and quite counter-productive to town interests. From where I'm sitting his vote was merited. Especially in light of the fact that he said he meant it as a strong FoS as opposed to a rock solid reason for why you absolutely must be scum. You OMGUSing him most certainly doesn't damage his case.Eh. I think it's very odd to say that townies have good dedication, and I'm one of the guys showing dedication, yet he votes me. Also, what do you think of this part of his post alsn? For a guy who hadn't posted anything, why is he calling all the actives out for substance? What good does that do? Also, it's unfortunate that I'm indirectly helping him defend himself, but at this point I simply find you/Djod more scummy than him and I figured the chance of him being scum was lower than the risk of you guys getting off the hook if I had stayed silent and just watched. It seems that from the latest developments that other people had the same thought. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:58 debears wrote: The fact that you keep bringing this up made me go look it up. Seriously, he posted his case 6 minutes after you posted your good night post. If he was truly being deliberate about wanting you to be gone, don't you think he would've waited a little longer? I didn't even realise how massive a contradiction your points 1) and 2) were until now.Alsn, you don't find the timing convenient at all? It seems he had covered the whole thread at that point. What's the best way to discredit someone? Waiting til they aren't there to argue with you You are seriously suggesting that he had typed up his introduction post, figured if he was going to frame you as scum that it would be best to sit and F5 spam until you left, and then immediately post it? That's about the most far fetched conspiracy theory I've ever heard. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:01 debears wrote: Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less?So, in essence, you think that a vote to tell someone to post less is productive? Being active =/ acting strangely or counter productive I was sparking conversation dude OMGUS is warranted when I find him scummy Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:08 debears wrote: That 13:30 post also happened to be... drumroll please. His introductory post.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466&user=73803 here's his filter from last game Closest thing to around 14:00 was at 13:30 and that was only once the entire game. Very odd timing from him | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
At this point I'd like it if you focused your attention somewhere else than towards explaining yourself so that I can make an informed decision on which is more likely. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote: Here's the thing. I don't have a problem with you posting some fluff, the problem is that you keep rationalising it as if somehow we shouldn't pay any attention to it. It's the same kind of behaviour I meant with regards to how you responded to my 99% lie post. You keep acting as if we need to forgive anything we find scummy about you as "look guys, I'm pro-town, don't worry about anything".So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote: With the amount you have posted, just because the percentage is low now doesn't mean that it was low earlier. At the time when sylver actually voted for you I'd say the amount of fluff posts you had made was among the highest in the game(possibly only rivalled by Cheese, but I seriously don't want to look it up).Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head I'm inclined to agree with Rad that if you're truly setting a scum trap, it's useless at this point. Although interestingly Clarity actually felt the need to respond to it despite the lack of sense you've been making lately(pre-game speculation being the crowning achievement I'd say). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 03:46 debears wrote: And artificially increasing your filter is what? At best it's a genuine attempt at making the observers laugh about something, at worst you're scum trying to hide behind Hapa's advice that he has posted after/during almost every single newbie lately, that lynching the most active player is almost always a mislynch. Neither of those help us find scum.While you consider a long filter bad for town, have you considered that an active town, especially super active town, is extremely bad for scum. They lose control of the thread, and have a threat who is invested and reads things over. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
The fact that he worded it awkwardly may be somewhat scummy(if you're supposing that he worded it awkwardly because he thinks about his actions differently than a townie would) but other than that the distinction seems like a pointless one to me. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Do you think that a townie doesn't have to be worried about what everyone else thinks of them? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
But you're saying it like just because one is worried about others not thinking you have pure intentions that if they make that fact known, it must be a slip. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:27 debears wrote: Less so maybe, but reading for example the newbie guide will tell you that a townie's first priority is to establish your own innocence. If that doesn't mean town needs to worry about their image, I don't know what it means. If you don't make sure that you look genuine, it would mean any scum voting for you seemingly had good reasons for doing so. Hell, just look at my play during XXVIII, I made pretty much everyone in the game(including you) suspect me because I wasn't careful enough about being consistent which derailed the thread and allowed SDM to flawlessly vote me out of the game without arousing any suspicion whatsoever. I spent the better part of four days trying to "fix my reputation" but in the end ultimately failed to do so, causing my lynch with arguably almost no benefit for town at all.Alsn, in my experience, townies are much less worried about how they are viewed among the town. They are more worried about scumhunting since town know they are innocent. Mafia, on the other hand, must try to "scumhunt" while appearing town, due to a guilty conscience. I'm merely saying that you can't accuse someone just because "scum would think that way!" if it's actually also true that town should think that way too. You can just as well make the case that it was a town slip(like, say, the one he made in XXIX that made everyone in the thread wrongly suspect him for 4 days straight?). I think if we keep paying attention to "weak slips" just because we managed to nail kush on it that one time, we haven't learned anything at all from XXIX. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:52 debears wrote: Why isn't it a big deal? If a townie who doesn't appear innocent is lynched, it's much harder to find which of the voters(if any) were making "forced" arguments.Djo's words implies that he feels pressure that he must appear townie, and I don't think that townies actually feel pressure to prove they're innocent, unless it's lylo. A townie may want to appear innocent, but if they don't day1 it's not a big deal. Scum want to from the very beginning of day1 | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Rad, is that enough of an answer for you? As in, may I leave you two alone now without having to sweep the floor of broken bottles tomorrow? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
First of all I'd like to address the topic which was at hand when I left, Rad v debears. I think debears' case did have some merit, particularly that it was pretty weird how Rad changed his mind. However, after reading Rad's responses he seems honest to me about his reasons. I don't particularly agree that he must have gotten "outside" help for changing his mind like that, his explanation that he revisited debears' comments feel just as likely, so pretty much the whole case seems like a null tell to me. However, I'd like to address sylver by saying that I most certainly did not stop suspecting debears after the initial lie argument as the game started. In fact, I made a FoS based on his scum meta from last game, as well as what I considered to be scummy behaviour from debears. Then I kept grilling him because I thought he wasn't making much sense from a town point of view. The only reason I'm not prepared to lynch him straight up is because while he has said some scummy things, he has also demonstrated(at least to me) a lot of possible town mentality in his activity and willingness to not shy away from the controversial issues. Like I said before, either very strongly town, or he's trying his utmost to stay consistent, something which should be easily catchable later in the game once we get some information on people's alignments. What worries me however, is the fact that the "things I wanted to let develop" which I mentioned before going to sleep was that I wanted to see how sylver's and Clarity's continued play would look like. I had suspicions of my own against clarity for basically not taking any position whatsoever except to vote someone based on lurker policy. Yes, I can see the motivations for it being a pressure vote, but in context with the rest of his behaviour(weakly committing to pretty much everything, or committing to pretty much nothing) I find that scummy indeed. My conundrum at this time is that both of the people I had pegged as the most scummy prior to this(debears, Djod) are suspecting him. That being said, at the very least I have a good idea of what I need to be looking at today. Clarity, Djod, debears. I'm also going to look into sylver because I had some suspicions against him before I went to sleep but I must have missed whether or not he contradicted or reinforced those suspicions of mine when I just read through the thread. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 00:42 da0ud wrote: da0ud, I know you got lynched early in the last game, but Djod consistently showed up a couple of hours before lynch last game. If he doesn't this game then I'd say we have something to worry about, but right now I'm more inclined to actually look at what he is saying in his case more than why he is away.I am a bit concerned that Djo living in Korea (so almost same timezone as I) has disappeared all afternoon. He is not 100% clean himself and has started lurking. It is now 1.40am in korea and knowing tomorrow is monday I doubt he will contribute till 4.30am. @ Djo : Are you sill arround or will you only be able to catch-up with the thread tomorrow morning right before lynch ? If things happen during the night in Asia, are you comfortable with keeping your vote on Clarity ? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 01:11 Djodref wrote: This fixation on supposed slips is making me seriously pissed. The fact that you don't even realise that if anyone has made a slip, it's you with your "vote pressure" slip yet you go along and accuse others for slipping?I would like sylver to be considered as a lynch candidate for today as well. I have no problem with me being also a candidate (even if I would have preferred to address the possible cases against me not while waking up) because being mislynched last game allowed me to clearly see who was pushing me for bad reasons. I'm confident that you could recognize my innocence this time  And why nobody has yet commented on the newest slip from sylver ? Also, would you make up your mind? You want yourself and sylver as lynch candidates too? Why so sylver gets lynched and you won't need to be associated with causing the lynch on Clarity? Do you know that Clarity is town? Look how easy it is to make up slips. It's ridiculous how much attention they seem to be getting. The worst part is that once you accuse someone, anything they say to defend themselves is basically WIFOM. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
That being said, rest assured that I'll be looking at his case in great detail. I'm holding off on making a judgement right now because I actually have a slight town read on him so far and I think you are both exaggerating the importance of your cases against him. Particularly the fact that debears is basing his case in large part on meta on a player who has played 24 hours total of mafia before being modkilled. Or that you seem to be accusing him of blending in, yet nothing he has really said to my eyes jumps out as if he was trying to push a scum agenda. If his only crime was blending in, who are you to say he's blending in on purpose? Sure, if he later jumps in and votes with bad reasoning, I'll hold it against him, but right now I find both of your cases weak. I'll hold off on elaborating further until he actually shows up however as I don't want to give him any unnecessary help. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote: Back sorry, was preparing dinner. Yes, at this point, either one of you or debears, still deciding on which one though. Expect a commitment from me sometime soon.@ Alsn Do you have a better lynch candidate for today by the way ? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
My case for why I think debears is scum. His reaction's so far to pressure. When I made my introductory post, I merely wanted to point out that he was being a little bit unfair in using skewed statistics to make us all forgive him if he should happen to be away. However, he instantly throws a FoS at me in order to discredit me instead of calmly explaining how I was wrong. Looking at his behaviour in XXVIII when he was town, the main reason I never got completely convinced he was scum was because he kept his cool and calmly explained why Z-BosoN was using faulty logic instead of going crazy about it. Later, when sylver votes him for what he later explains is a strong FoS, he basically goes completely OMGUS on sylver instead of again, calmly explaining why sylver is wrong, accusing him of "bullshit reasoning"(see this post at the end. Unless debears has completely changed his town meta I don't see how I can view this behaviour as town debears. Then there's his attitude towards Obzy, saying he's posting useless and worthless content. It's the exact same strategy he used in XXIX to discredit Inig, a timid beginner townie. Sure, you told him to get coaching, but how does that one line make up for saying his content is useless and worthless? In fact, it's more of the same from debears, seeing as Obzy was pointing fingers at debears it's yet more flaming in order to discredit someone who is suspicious of him. His voting pattern so far He voted for da0ud "just so lurkers know that he's serious". This is definitely something which I can't blame him for, since da0ud did indeed start posting shortly thereafter. But then he goes on to OMGUS vote sylver, maintaining for a very long time that sylver had "bullshit reasons" for voting him. Yet all is forgiven as soon as sylver backs off? No, actually not, he has kept criticising sylver. Interestingly however, he picks Clarity as his next target, a player who I can't yet see is behaving all that scummy. A paragon of town, definitely not, but probable scum? I don't think so. Interestingly, he's also sheeping off of Djodref instead of pursuing the scum reads he has shared so far. Largely, I find that the way he votes this game is very similar to the way he voted in XXIX so largely, I'd say this is a meta read more than anything else. However, I'd like to preface this by saying I definitely have concerns with regards to the cases against Clarity. I find that his behaviour overall is pretty null, or maybe even slightly town. But depending on how he actually addresses the cases brought forward thus far, I can definitely see myself changing my mind about him. Because while both of you are correct in criticising him for his actions, I'd just prefer to hear his side of the story first as you're being pretty hyperbolic about how important your points are. So, since I'm not yet convinced enough of Clarity's guilt, as well as the fact that I feel unless we have more than one wagon, it'll be harder to find out much of substance after the vote, I'm voting for my top scum read: ##Vote: debears | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Clarity, if you really want to help town I'd recommend you actually present your case and try to actually make it count. If it turns out that you get mislynched anyway then at the very least we will know that you were sincere all along today. Having minor arguments about why you've not yet presented a case just means that what you really want to say gets pushed further towards lynch, which is bad for town since then we won't have time to judge you properly on your arguments. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I think the thread so far has demonstrated quite clearly the flaw with your idea that not answering a particular question is inherently scummy. Even if we assume that only the scum have refused to answer your question(unlikely, from where I'm sitting) it would mean that at least one townie is among that group. I'd actually say his unwillingness to push through with his tactic and use the lack of answers as proof for a case at the very most is a null tell. The idea that him going back on a tactic when it's seemingly very ineffective is a scum tell is beyond me, which is part of the reason why I'm still very suspicious of debears. Inconsistency isn't necessarily a scum trait, as we've seen again and again in the newbie games. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Whether Obzy has thick skin enough to shrug it off is besides the point. You were being demeaning to a new player which is exactly what you did last game. Admittedly, you seem to be painting "everyone" with bullshit this game, which is a slight change. I actually am a bit concerned, seeing that there's a lot of people who has avoided taking any stances completely until wagons were already well under way. I'm starting to suspect that both you and Clarity might end up being town, but at this point I don't have a better option. I'll see if I can make a better case against someone else, but I don't see how it would benefit town if we fumble around frenetically leading up to the lynch(see my play D3 last game). Especially since it's still D1, the most important thing is to simply make sure that we hold people responsible for their actions going forward. Anyway, I'm still not inclined to trust that you've town's best interest in mind. But I'll keep an eye out for how the thread develops. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
You've been asking a lot of questions lately, but I can't find many(any?) of your reads, would you mind sharing your stronger ones? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 05:09 debears wrote: I have to admit that you're right about that one, you haven't, and I like his posting since then too.I still don't get why you guys are thinking it was a personal attack on Obsy. I'll call people out when I think they aren't contributing. Being on the aggressive side usually makes them more alert and responsive. I think the key here is that I haven't kept bashing him. I like his posting since. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 04:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Which one is it? @Clarity I agree with the fluff point on your case of Debears - fluff creating more fluff because fluff is fluffy fluff. (Fluff = confidence from last game). The first point, however, you say that he was trying to halt discussion. I'd disagree, Debears and I both wanted Djo to stop because the argument was, well, ridiculous in nature. It was pretty much going in circles and if we hadn't stopped it, we'd still be drowned in it. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I'm more and more convinced that I may have been wrong about debears. Upon closer inspection I realised that his early FoS in XXIX was against a scum buddy of his, meaning he never planned to follow through on it. So he must have had different reasons for FoSing me early this game. In addition, I have to concede that even if he may have been a bit brusque in his attitude towards some of the newer players, it has indeed gotten them to talk, something which is undoubtedly good for town. I also may have overestimated the importance of his vote switching. The fact that he did find sylver scummy and then kept arguing with him about it should probably be a town tell, seeing as it revealed a lot of what sylver claimed to be his motivations for voting was. The problem now though is, I'm not yet convinced that Clarity is scummy, but at this point I don't know who else to vote. I definitely think that Clarity's behaviour seems weird, he didn't really commit to any strong stance until he was pressured to do so by being voted. Yet we could say the same thing about Cheese or even Rad as they've been getting away with "blending in" almost as much as Clarity in my opinion. Cheese's only major stance he has taken yet has been to FoS Djod because Djod thought Cheese joking was scummy, yet what else? Soft-disagreeing with both the lynches because they may or may not be scum? Not to mention the fact that Cheese isn't even trying to push a Djod lynch even though he said that he's "on the list" when I asked for his strongest reads. He's content with just sitting and soft-commenting and being pretty neutral about everything. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 06:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: (Original quote had Obzy's name in place of Clarity, but he EBWOPed it to say he meant Clarity a few minutes later)@Rad I liked how you had that townie read on me last game . I think you had that read because I was playing very neutral (no strong ultra-mega reads) and using logical points. Is Clarity doing that this game? To you, does he seem like me in the previous game?In the above quote Cheese is doing something he has done earlier in the thread, suggesting someone is acting "just how we acted as scum last game" without actually saying he thinks that the person in question is scummy for it. He did the same early in the game when he accused debears of FoSing early just like he did against Dandel in XXIX:+ Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Debears you seem really paranoid. He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat. I'd say Cheese skating by without taking any strong positions except in the case where he wanted to avoid suspicion himself is pretty scummy. He's almost deliberately avoiding taking a stance on any controversial issues, with his filter mostly consisting of pointing out minor inconsistencies as if to show that he's here. Examples in the following spoilers: + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 10:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Are you really trying to play the activity card on Alsn? It's like 1-2AM there for him. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 01:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I agree with the underlined. As scum last game I focused on Djo's scumslip to help push his lynch even though it was a very questionable one. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 05:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hmm... @Rad What do you think about that underlined portion right there? I'd like you to explain what your stances really are without wishy-washy "maybe this maybe that" points that tell us nothing. FoS Mr. Cheesecake | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Why I think Mr. Cheesecake is scum
##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
What does everyone else think about Mr. Cheese then? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I agree with debears here, I don't understand why you wouldn't make a case against Djod just because he left. If you thought he was the most likely to be scum, you should have went for it. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 07:31 Clarity_nl wrote: I think debears was right for calling you out there. I don't particularly agree that you needed to take a stance there, or that him wanting you to take a stance was anything but a null tell. But I can appreciate him wanting an actual opinion other than something to the effect of "wow, isn't that interesting" and nothing else.Now, debears calls everyone usless one way or the other so that's a null tell, but I just found this and I can't tell if this makes scumteam debears/djo more or less likely? After this there are a bunch of instances of one following the other. It's rather interesting that he asked me to pick between him and djo, rather than asking me if Cheese's joke is a null tell or not. Am I just getting paranoid now? I need fresh eyes. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 07:33 Clarity_nl wrote: I'd say there is. If you get lynched as town, the best thing we have to go on is your (then confirmed) honesty.@ Alsn I don't think there's a way for me to comment on cheese without screwing myself over. I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1, but people clearly think so since it's the lynchpin (lol) of the cases on me. I honestly couldn't tell you if commenting will make everyone else more or less likely to vote for you, or less/more likely to vote for debears, who you seem convinced is scum. But that's forum mafia for you. I guess it depends on what you actually think. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 07:49 Clarity_nl wrote: Yet he never pushed Djo. He only alluded to doing so. I'm guessing he was actually hoping that someone else would push the Djo lynch letting him sheep onto it. Or possibly that Djo is actually his scum buddy and the whole joke stupidity in the early game was arranged.I haven't done that either. His top scumread was djo, right? Djo has been pushed for most of the day. I've already said that I dislike pushing people who are already being pushed unless they're missing something obvious. Either way, I can't forgive him for just letting his supposedly top scum read go because he wants to be "neutral". For crying out loud he even accuses you of being neutral in order to get everyone to lynch you as I pointed out in my top spoiler in this post. So he clearly thinks himself that it's ok to lynch you for being neutral, yet he doesn't want to push a lynch himself but would prefer to wait for "more information". | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
In/actions speak louder than words. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Seeing as you seemingly still can't decide who you want to lynch, what are your thoughts about my case on Cheese? You didn't want to push a debears/clarity lynch, well, what about Cheese? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Alright then, that makes me a little less worried. I'd still like it if people actually started arguing instead of just sitting back and waiting. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
The lynch is one hour later compared to pre DST changes in Europe, but since there were DST changes, it's 2:00 am again for me. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I agree that his vote pressure 180 is weird. He's still one of the people that I find most suspicious. I don't agree that it(and his other actions) makes him more scummy than I find you to be because he has at least been displaying townie traits too(most prominently his willingness to push a lynch that no one else had seemed to consider first).Everyone seems so concerned on why I haven't been pushing my case on Djo. You know why? Because everything that I find scummy about him, people attribute to his "Djo" attitude and the way he words things. I made a ton of mistakes last game that I find him doing this game. I point them out, but the entire thread is just like "You know, it's just Djo being Djo". Incredibly frustrating. I dropped my case and accusing him of scummy behavior because I actually didn't feel like hitting my head into this brick wall anymore. So, I decided to go back to a neutral stance and look at what other people were doing. His 180 on pressure voting is something that I found to be damning as hell (Alsn, I think you agree on this?) He explains this by giving some sorry excuse about the difference between suspicion votes and pressure votes and blah blah blah. You know what? Fuck that. Djo is scummy as hell to me. Was last game(regardless of me being scum), is this game. I don't give two shits how he handles the language or his defense. The only reason he gets away with a ton of his posts is because his meta is cheerfully innocent. /Engageconfirmationbiasgoggles ##Vote: Djodref Also, Regular Fapper right here. Just fappin' away. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 08:23 debears wrote: @Alsn Could you look over Sylver's filter? I see a few worrisome things 1) In an active game, he has been fairly inactive - only 2 pages in the filter. In other words, he isn't invested in the game/the lynch discussion 2) He still hasn't addressed my response to his case 3) His reasoning for voting me was bad 4) His latest troll post 5) He's not here before lynch 6) His reasons for suspicion are pretty ambiguous against me/Djo when there has been plenty said of us 7) He defends Clarity by throwing out random suspicions on Djo/me/dau0d 8) He reposts pretty much the same thing an hour later What do you think Alsn? 1) Null tell/speculation. I wouldn't say he was particularly active in XXIX either before he was shot. 2) I guess he hasn't? I'd like it if he clarified it too, but what does it say really? 3) This I'll give you that he did, but not that it's necessarily a scum tell. It might have felt to him like he had to produce "something" so that people wouldn't suspect him. I'm not sure if I can brand this a scum tell though. If he really believed that you were scum but just couldn't find a good reason for why he thought so it also fits. 4) That post is definitely not helpful at this point. 5) I don't like it either. 6) Actually, that point I actually feel you're wrong. I'd say that statement is pretty clearly an attempt at pointing out why he thinks you are suspicious(him thinking you are hiding behind Djod). I see similarities in my rationale for thinking one of Dandel/Cheese was scum and the other was town last game. 7) I'm not sure what to think of this, is he not allowed to defend clarity and at the same time be suspicious of other people? If he was defending a supposed scum buddy I could see it, but sylver has been suspicious of those names before Clarity was under attack hasn't he? Correct me if I'm wrong. 8) An elaborate EBWOP? I honestly have no clue what to think about that "double" post unless he explains it. All in all, I think the best point is his weak case against you. But on the other hand, I don't see the scum motivations for in essence sheeping onto me and Clarity in order to get you lynched if you are indeed town. Especially if his scum buddy was Clarity? I guess it depends on who his scum buddy is in that scenario, what he was trying to accomplish by pushing you, but I see it as a little bit too "public" for having clear scum motivations. At least at first glance. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 08:47 Clarity_nl wrote: Not at this time, no. I'm leaning pretty hard town on debears. If nothing else, I think he's been more open about what his actual opinions are this game(last game at this point he had basically only accused Inig and then went missing only to come back and complain about us lynching someone else)I am completely lost now after what just happened. Is there ANYONE other than sylver here that thinks debears might be scum? Seriously doubting right about now... | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:00 Clarity_nl wrote: Yea, I get what happened. But can we assume that scum knew about the flavour text or what? I don't see the reason to point it out to us if claiming that means that they are 100% VT no chance of that claim being false? Cause otherwise the game would be over at this point?@ Alsn The reason debears says that is because the OP role says Townie | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yea and I'm just supposed to take your word for it? For all I know you and Clarity are both scum and you figured since the OP doesn't mention it you'd claim and then say "amagad, we couldn't possibly not be town!".I guess the scum did know about the flavor text, but I didn't know they knew about it. I think we have to assume the whole flavour thing to be a null tell. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:08 Clarity_nl wrote: You and Cheese actually. That means the only new info we have is that Cheese claimed VT..... ?  | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:10 sylverfyre wrote: Sylver, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but I remember you role fishing as town in XXIX. Or at least saying that you were.Scumteam Cheese Debears? Trying to call out for all VT to roleclaim... ANY kind of mass roleclaim on day 1... no. Just no. No no no no. No way is that something a townie would ask for. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
He also went out pretty sure of himself in saying "I'm thinking I'll be pretty neutral D1 even in the future" or something like that, only to go "Ohshi, better do something fast!" as soon as I accused him. That seems to suggest to me that he knows my alignment and got caught saying something that wasn't true so he needs to listen to me. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:23 Clarity_nl wrote: I hope that was directed at someone other than me, I've been pretty clear why I want Cheese lynched.Okay, so your currently reasoning to lynch Cheese is entirely based off of his VT claim? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yea, and in that game you also claimed VT as scum.Please, I had way more pressure as scum last game. From the last game: On November 02 2012 07:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Alsn For Nack, as I previously said I think he's trying to act all high and mighty to lead the town. He sites all of his experience thinking that we'll believe his every action and word. We don't know if he's town, and quite frankly, I don't want to believe he's town. He thinks you and I are scumbuddies... and the reasons for voting Dandel are pretty obvious, but he could be advocating it just to lead us into a mislynch. For Debears, he's been pretty consistent. He seems like he goes out of his way to look up stuff from other games, etc to prove his point (see: Meta of Dandel). I find it odd that he just votes Dandel without considering other possibilities. He should be, if he is town, fighting for his top scum read because this is lylo. (If it's Dandel, so be it). Alsn, I don't know what to think of you. You're all over the place. Dandel's scum, then he's not, then he is again--but at least I can see where you are coming from. Your recent activity wants me to believe you town, because you do actually care about this lynch. I'm fairly convinced Inig is scum, especially with his sudden reaction to a single vote. I can't see another way about him. Nack being scum with him would only make sense, because Inig for some reason trusts him unconditionally and won't question his authority (unlike yourself, Alsn). As for myself, I may as well post this now considering the OMGUS vote on me, even though it won't make much of a difference. I'm Rose the Vanilla Townie (Thanks for the killer name Thrawn). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: How about maybe you didn't know that the thread would blow up?Just think guys: What the hell is the scum motivation of blowing up the thread like this? Be logical here. If I were scum, why would I risk everything so suddenly? Hmm? Makes not a bit of sense. That claim was almost asking to get lynched. As a scum, and if I had the role PM, I should have known this would happen. But I didn't, because I didn't know everyone had the VT role PM. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 05 2012 09:53 da0ud wrote: He's saying debears might be scum, not you(I think).Man, I am the only one trying to defend you and you say I might be scum ? You better turn green if you get killed otherwise i put myself in danger too.... Would be pretty dumb of me. I just think we changed our mind too fast from the Clarity, Sylver's tragets... | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
It's too late either way, how can we make an informed decision in 3 minutes? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
But well, that truly sucks, I seriously hoped I was actually right because this is a pretty shitty situation. It would have been way better if people had been forced to actually vote for someone with reasoning other than pretty much the entire wagon sheeping. That being said, I'm confident that there's something of value among all these votes and the chaos pre-lynch. That'll have to wait for tomorrow however as I really need to be getting some sleep. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
@da0ud, you had claimed that you considered Clarity to be your top lynch candidate before going to bed. Yet Clarity switching to Cheesecake over debears made you vote for debears? Why? If you believed Cheese to be innocent, why would you suddenly disregard the fact that your top scum read was trying to push Cheese's lynch? I know that you also considered debears scummy, but what made you choose him? You were the one who was responsible for the debears counter-wagon, why did you pick debears and not Clarity? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 06 2012 02:20 Djodref wrote: I'm not convinced either. Right now I'm trying to figure out what exactly I think about you.@ Alsn and Rad What do you think about a Clarity lynch tomorrow ? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I feel like Clarity has a good chance of being town. He tried to break up the fight between debears and Rad over the percentage, he made a case against debears at a time where I thought myself that debears might be scum. I don't get the feeling that he's only trying to stay consistent. If he was worried about that I don't think he would have jumped on Cheese for the claim as hard as he did. Since a scum Clarity would have known that Cheese was town, I'd be much more suspicious of him if he chickened out and voted debears in order to stay consistent. Instead he attacked Cheese pretty hard for claiming, something which was sure to bring him a lot of attention seeing as he would have known how the Cheese lynch would end. I'm however not as sure about Djod. He's definitely acting like I would expect a town Djod to act(acting like Clarity has "lost" the game and should just reveal his partner and stuff like that definitely fits with town Djod from XXVIII. I also don't see why he would ask about scum mechanics(framer mechanics, specifically) out in the open if he was scum. Nor why he would attack Cheese(who a scum Djod would know was town) for joking. All those things considered, I find most of his accusations to be really empty, like he's looking for "excuses" to attack someone, rather than actually considering their motives. He attacks sylver for vote pressuring, something which Cheese pointed out and that I commended him for, but I dismissed it later because I was thinking "nah, that's just Djod!". His case against Clarity then accuses clarity of blending in and not following up on his reads. Yet Clarity actually gave pretty convincing answers for why he hadn't done so. He kept saying he was going to make a case in the latter half of D1, he did. He had also stated that well before Djod made his case against him. The latter half of Djod's case against Clarity is seeing ghosts where there are none. He accuses Clarity of denying making a list but the post Djod quotes says nothing of the sort. I'm suspecting maybe there's some confirmation bias shenanigans going on here, but I can see where Cheese was coming from with regards to how hard it is to read Djod. That being said, if there aren't any other scummy looking people tomorrow, Djod is looking like my vote is best placed for now. I haven't yet looked into sylver very much since the beginning half of D1, but we have two days. I'm thinking I might need to look at Obzy next, or possibly Rad as I don't have much other than that I like their posting so far. And I'd also like it if da0ud answered my question from earlier today. With that, I feel like things need to start rolling again before I know for sure who I want to lynch tomorrow. I'm off to sleep, although I can check in after I finish watching the DS9 episode I'm currently watching if anyone wants to know something. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 01:34 sylverfyre wrote: To be fair, if Cheese had the right assumption and that it was actually possible to "confirm" all VT's, it would probably have been pretty good for town. The problem was, what was to stop a non-VT(either blue or scum) from just saying "uuh, I didn't know everyone knew?" after debears asked that question? There was just no way to confirm anyone as anything considering what we now know, so stop it with the absolutely ridiculous speculation.Djodref, What do YOU think we would have accomplished if went through with confirming a bunch of VT through debears method on day 1? However, if it had actually been possible to confirm all the VTs, scum would probably have been in a fishy situation. They would know who the blues were, but they wouldn't know which blues they were. At the same time, all the VTs would have known who not to lynch, in addition to the blues(assuming there's two of them, which is just a guess at this point) knowing among which three players the scum were hiding. That would've probably been a pretty difficult situation for scum because even if they night kill both blues, no VT is going to lynch another VT in a scenario like that. So there's no way for scum to proceed than to NK VTs and hope town lynches the blue players instead of scum. This would still leave 3 VT vs 2 scum in D3 though. I think Cheese just made a mistake in not thinking it through, as a scenario like that would include no "proper" play at all from the game participants. So if that really was the case Cheese claiming like that would have meant that marv probably would have cancelled and restarted the game with new roles. It's unfortunate that we didn't have enough time to think it through, because in hindsight I think Cheese's argument about "why would I blow up the thread as scum?" looks pretty convincing actually. That's the last thing I'll say on the matter. The fact is that there's absolutely no way to confirm or deny anything with regards to that clusterfuck. With that in mind, like the late debears said, going forward we should use legit scum hunting, not WIFOM bullshit. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 06 2012 23:58 Djodref wrote: I love the absolutely massive hypocrisy of this post. You don't want Clarity to post a case on you when you are away. Then you criticise him for actually listening to you. Then you go around and do the exact same thing to me?I'm not planning to post tonight because I'm tired and I need to be able to think clearly. I'm going to drop Clarity for a while because the fact that other players give him a town read makes me crazy... Alsn, you are not matching at all your usual activity level as town and you have only targeted town players until now (debears and Cheese). What is happening to you ? I'm using my vote to pressure you into making cases ##unvote ##Vote Alsn What is happening to me? How about I was asleep and went to work? I've been on pretty consistently from around early-late afternoon my time every single day, so I don't even know what you are basing your post on. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I'm seriously considering Djod as a possible lynch candidate for today, but I want to go through the other players that I haven't yet focused on as much to make sure that there isn't someone more scummy around. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 02:44 Djodref wrote: Yea, so? What's the scum motivation behind that? Explain to me why a town would discuss parts of his case with someone he considers scum beforehand?@ Alsn Clarity didn't want me to have time to prepare my defense against his case to begin with | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 02:44 Djodref wrote: Brilliant. The second I come back to defend myself you pussy out and drop the vote? Yet you've made a case against sylver specifically emphasizing the voting strategy you claim to use yourself at this very moment(pressuring me) as being scummy?##Unvote ##Vote Clarity_nl | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:05 Djodref wrote: Assuming you're telling the truth, you most definitely were not. Give me some time to think about this. Even if I believe you, I'm not entirely convinced that you must be correct in thinking clarity is scum.No, roleblocks are not notified, but you can easily see how I am pissed off when I'm called a blue hunter... And my main reason to do see is to prevent Clarity and Rad from using the argument "Imma protect the blues". I told you I didn't care if I have to out the blues in order to scumhunt. I was not kidding... | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I'll trust you for now, we have a lot of time today so we don't need to rush. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:07 Djodref wrote: I think you've made that perfectly clear. I want Clarity lynched today | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
At this point, I don't see any reason to not believe him barring an exceptional counter-claim. I'll see if I can go along with a Clarity lynch as he did post his case against debears D1 fourty minutes after me, at a time where I was convinced he would make a Djod case. I dismissed the possibility that he was sheeping me at the time because I didn't think he could type up a case that quickly, but maybe I shouldn't place too much emphasis on that. I'll have to reread in more detail what actually happened. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:29 Clarity_nl wrote: 1) I'd say claiming early rather than late is more town-like. Claiming early definitely makes his claim more believable. XXIX is a perfect example of where a late claim only served to be confusing(we didn't have time to think through the possibility that the claim might be fake).Okay... I'm back. A few questions pop to mind immediately. 1)Djo, why did you claim? I don't think you were in any real danger of getting lynched, and I don't think this changes anything about your suspicion of me. 2)What is the flavor in your PM? Why do you want me to claim so bad? Why do you believe that outing yourself at blue makes it less likely that you were blue hunting? You obviously do not want to use your abilities on other blues. Why didn't you protect debears? You explained he was an obvious NK candidate. If you jailed Alsn N1, why did you suspect him today? Why did you "pressure vote" him and now take it back? I have some calls to make right now, after that I'll read through some filters and be back. 2) What would this even prove? Unless there's a second jailkeeper who can back it up, how would that prove anything? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:31 Djodref wrote: I saw it earlier when I read through the thread, I just haven't had time to address it yet. Do you want me to?yeah, I have been stupid, by the way you did not comment my "mini-case" against you at the end of N1 | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 06 2012 09:55 Djodref wrote: 1) See 2)I'm very disappointed that no one have taken a look on the guy who provoked Cheese mislynch. This is the first mention of Cheese in Alsn filter as far as I know. 1)Lynch - 10H -> no mention of Cheese 2)Lynch - 4H -> starts to show attention to Cheese 3)And the best part is that, 2 hours later, Alsn came to us with a concise case which allows him to point Cheese as scum. Alsn shows confidence in his read of Cheese. The time it took to decide that Cheese was scum, the size of his post, the confidence he shows. All these points don't fir Alsn's town meta. I think that he also uses double-standards while voting Cheese over Clarity. Cheese was more consistent than Clarity in his follow-ups and did not avoid discussion. For the rest of the points, they are common to both players.
@ Alsn 4)Why Cheese over Clarity ? 2) To be honest, the fact that I hadn't noticed him much at all other than his fight with you over the joke was what worried me at that point. It felt to me like the only thing Cheese had done during all of D1 was have a fight over a couple of jokes. That seemed quite scummy to me because I just had no idea where he stood on anything. It's the reason why I ask him and Rad for their reads. 3) In fact, I actually get a bit worried when Obzy points out that no one has grilled Cheese about anything at all other than the joke fight. It spurred me to gather my thoughts and make a case. The fact that I had gotten convinced that debears probably wasn't town helped this, because I was afraid he was going to be mislynched if I didn't get another wagon rolling. 4) To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why not Clarity. I guess I trusted him because he had been on my side against debears. I had felt that you and debears had been "unfair" towards clarity by accusing him of blending in when I thought Rad and Cheese were guilty of that too. The fact that Cheese was inconsistent in his reasons for suspecting Clarity(I pointed it out when I called him out for believing the fluff argument, yet not liking Clarity's case because of exactly that, fluff) was probably the last straw for me. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:38 sylverfyre wrote: Sylver, to your last point. Even if he is playing the newbie card, it's been Rad(and to some extent me) that's been directing him. Or at least so he claims.Rad's becoming more convincing. Obzy I find strange, because it feels like he was actually MORE active during the night phase than day phase. And I'm not sure what to read into the statement, but it strikes me wrongly. You're voting me, but I get the feeling you're listening more to other arguments against me than making any of your own. I'm confused what to think of you until you make a case today. This post feels too much like a subtle "playing the newbie card" I'd say Obzy is making sense from a newbie town point of view, even though Rad(regardless of his alignment) is correct in saying that Obzy should really try and not use the newbie card. Even if he draws fault conclusions, it'd definitely be better for town if Obzy didn't pay as much attention to me and Rad as he claims to have been doing. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:48 Djodref wrote: You're actually quite right in your arguments here. The problem is that at the time, I sympathized with Clarity because I have to admit, if he had agreed with me regarding Cheese it would have made yours and debears' arguments against him stronger. More on the interactions between Clarity and Cheese Don't you see how this post reeks of guiltiness ? Please notice how Clarity avoided to push during all this game... If you are town and someone is playing the same way you play and is attacked for the same things that you are attacked. there is no WIFOM. The only thing that you should do is sympathize and defend this guy ![b/] However, I can definitely see the point where if he was town, he wouldn't worry about what his accusers thought of him. He would worry about what he really thought about my case on Cheese. In the end, he voted Cheese supposedly only on the basis of Cheese claiming. That, if anything, feels pretty scummy to me. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 04:12 Obzy wrote: Bolded by me for emphasis.Regarding Night/Day phase - I expected to not be very active due to being at work, but if work is slow for me, I do a lot of reading; and there weren't as many people on so the thread was a lot slower. When the thread is slow enough, it feels like I can take my time to type out my posts without losing a hold of the conversation. And... I'm having doubts about voting you. Nobody feels suspicious or cares. It feels like CC again in a way, but CC flipped town. I'll remove the vote for now, because I think my reasoning is kind of stupid. I was thinking that if you were scum, the scumteam was Djo/you. If Djo is the jailkeeper [and I don't see any reason to disbelieve this unless another jailkeeper emerges], I have no idea who your scumbuddy is. All of that was based on "if Clarity is town"; comma, "who is left"? - Unless Djo can be shown to be lying or something, I think I'll go back to thinking blindly that Clarity was scum as I had been doing the other day pre-CC lynch. I will try to put together a case for Clarity later today, but if it feels sort of half-assed and empty like my case against you felt then I'm not sure what to think and will have to re-evaluate again. I wish debears had been able to post his case before dying. ^^; ##Unvote I think that's because scum are most worried right now about figuring out how to discredit Djod's wish to lynch Clarity. Assuming he's correct about Clarity/Rad but at this point it's looking pretty likely. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 04:17 Rad wrote: Because it just fits? I'm still going to see if there's anything inherently contradictory about it. But the fact remains my suspicions against Cheese were similar to what I felt about you at the time. You were extremely unwilling to vote for anyone of Cheese, debears, Clarity. Two of them are now confirmed to be town, and the last has long been suspected of being scum.@alsn You think it's pretty likely, do you? Can you explain why? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't see how my post just above this doesn't explain this question, but ok, I'll bite.@ Alsn How does Djod's claim make you turn 180 and say that it's Rad and me? Was your analysis of my possible innocence hinging on Djo being scum? It doesn't hinge on you being scum. But assuming I believe his claim he obviously isn't a likely candidate anymore. So assuming his claim is legit(which I don't have much reason to doubt at this point) you and Rad definitely fit the profile. Like I said, I still want to look at other possibilities, and I will. But for now it seems too good to be true that his claim is fake just to frame the two of you. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 04:45 Clarity_nl wrote: Because eliminating him as possible scum means someone else must be? How hard is that to grasp? It also lead me to actually pay more attention to what he was actually saying, as opposed to just looking at whether or not he was suffering from confirmation bias/was scum trying to stay consistent.The reason I ask is because you (maybe not as extravagantly as Rad) argued against Djo, calling out parts of his argument as bogus. You also claimed that it's possible he just has mega confirmation bias. Why do any of these two beliefs diminish, even if marv swooped in and told everyone Djo is Jailkeeper. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 04:51 Rad wrote: Now that's either just a straight up lie. Or you have a very weird definition of what town should do. You are now claiming that you were unsure of who to vote leading up to the lynch, but in point 2) you say you "realised he was town" yet you still voted for him? That makes no sense. I'm thinking you're just lying through your teeth here. You wanted your vote to sit on debears because you wanted to make it look like you believed the people who were wary of a Cheese lynch since you knew he would flip town.@alsn I wasn't convinced of who I should vote. I didn't want to vote clarity, for the reasons I stated in the first list I made. I wanted to vote debears but no one else did, so I was questioning myself (also I was considering since he's the most active, I shouldn't vote him). I was also reading sylver as scum but there was no lynch potential on him. So I had clarity (who I was leaning town) or ___? Then the cheese incident happened and everything went into chaos. Because of that chaos, I got 4 reads: 1. Cheese town - his reasons for claiming the first time were clear to me, but he didn't keep it under wraps. He kept spitting it out like VTs didn't notice, and then he straight up spelled it out to debears. This looked genuine to me because I understood his thought process. 2. debears town - his interactions with cheese and his agreeing with sylver being suspicious for not voting him when he still had a chance to be lynched, those things made me realize he was town (VT due to the interactions with cheese) 3. clarity probably town - also due to his interactions with cheese, not as strong, I thought he might be blue but I was leaning VT due to him claiming he PM'd the host. 4. da0ud - town, balls of steel to jump on debears, if debears gets lynched there he and cheese are prime suspects for next 2 lynches. If he's scum, he knows debears is town, so voting cheese is much safer because everyone else is already doing it. This is a main reason I find sylver scummy, for not jumping to debears when he had a chance (because if scum, he knows debears is town, and him staying on cheese is much safer). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 05:09 Rad wrote: Now you're deliberately misunderstanding me. You lied because:@alsn He was scum hunting when he had a chance to be lynched. I think that's super townie. He wasn't trying to divert attention from himself possibly getting lynched, he was pointing out scummy behavior at a good time when that information was important. It was important to get sylver's response to that asap because it didn't make sense for him to not jump to his biggest scum tell. I threw the idea out there and he confirmed it was suspicious at that moment when it might be bad for him to point it out. I think scum debears ignores my comment about sylver and possibly revisits it later if sylver is town. The sylver thing happened after I had my vote on debears, and is the point where it all fit together for me. His interactions with cheese + the sylver comment had me convinced. I didn't switch back to cheese at that point because I still had a higher town read on cheese than debears, due to debears trying to blue hunt which was confusing at that point. You say you didn't want to vote for debears because you thought debears was town. Yet you voted for debears. You voted for someone you at the time claim you thought was town | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 05:17 Rad wrote: You're still trying to explain away your 4 point post where you explicitly say the reason you were uncertain who to vote leading up to lynch was that you had a town read on debears(point 2). Yet you still voted him. You can't take back saying that no matter how hard you try. So either you're lying about what you actually thought at the time, or you think it's ok to vote for your town reads.@alsn At the point I voted for debears, I thought cheese was town, and I still had a scum read on debears. I did not think his interactions with cheese alone necessarily confirmed him VT to me. When da0ud came in and voted debears, I saw that as a better candidate than cheese because I still considered him scum. It was the sylver comment that pushed it over the edge and everything made sense to me. Even then, I had a higher town read on cheese due to debear's blue hunting being confusing as hell, so I stuck with my vote. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 05:22 Rad wrote: @alsn Can you please point out where I said I didn't want to vote for debears because I thought debears was town? I see myself saying the exact opposite here: Sure, I can: On November 07 2012 04:51 Rad wrote: In this post you are explaining to me why you were so uncertain leading up to the lynch. Take special note to my red star and your point 2. @alsn I wasn't convinced of who I should vote. I didn't want to vote clarity, for the reasons I stated in the first list I made. I wanted to vote debears but no one else did, so I was questioning myself (also I was considering since he's the most active, I shouldn't vote him). I was also reading sylver as scum but there was no lynch potential on him. So I had clarity (who I was leaning town) or ___? Then the cheese incident happened and everything went into chaos. * Because of that chaos, I got 4 reads: 1. Cheese town - his reasons for claiming the first time were clear to me, but he didn't keep it under wraps. He kept spitting it out like VTs didn't notice, and then he straight up spelled it out to debears. This looked genuine to me because I understood his thought process. 2. debears town - his interactions with cheese and his agreeing with sylver being suspicious for not voting him when he still had a chance to be lynched, those things made me realize he was town (VT due to the interactions with cheese) 3. clarity probably town - also due to his interactions with cheese, not as strong, I thought he might be blue but I was leaning VT due to him claiming he PM'd the host. 4. da0ud - town, balls of steel to jump on debears, if debears gets lynched there he and cheese are prime suspects for next 2 lynches. If he's scum, he knows debears is town, so voting cheese is much safer because everyone else is already doing it. This is a main reason I find sylver scummy, for not jumping to debears when he had a chance (because if scum, he knows debears is town, and him staying on cheese is much safer). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Basically, it's way too convenient for scum to get away with simply saying "look, all I can see are town!", because if that was an acceptable excuse, how the hell could we hold people accountable for seemingly not scum hunting? That being said, I don't discount the possibility of say, Obzy, sylver or even da0ud being scum and Rad just not finding either of the lynch candidates so far scummy enough, but from what I've seen so far, the only one I'm inclined to agree with in that group is sylver. I'll definitely take another look, starting now as I don't want to get too caught up in this whole thing, if Djod's claim doesn't hold up, it's bound to come down crashing on him. Like I said, there's a lot of time left. I just found that when I thought about Djod's claim and what it meant, Rad + Clarity being scum seemed really likely due to the way things have progressed so far. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I still find you scummy for the reasons I mentioned, but I'll look into the other possibilities as promised. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
The only original idea he's had all game was that he wanted people to look at Cheese. However, when I went ahead and did so, he didn't want to vote for him until everything blew up. All of a sudden it was quite all right to vote for Cheese, even though he had stated not a few hours earlier that "I think voting Cheese right now would be too sudden". Sure, if he's newbie town that could all be explained away as him feeling overwhelmed. But can we take that chance? I never followed the game in question but I even recall Djod saying he managed to win as scum because he played the newbie card. Will look into sylver next to see what I feel about him. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Then to go around and NK debears? That makes his entire voting story completely ridiculous. Why would he discredit himself like that? All he had to do was say that he wasn't convinced that Cheese was necessarily scummy. This is WIFOM, yes, but on the whole other than the voting debacle, he has been acting pretty pro-town. Unless he was lying about what he thought about debears actions in early D1, his vote pressure and follow up makes complete sense. Debears did OMGUS him, although we now know he did it because he was suspicious of sylver. I don't see what's so weird about his actions for the rest of D1 with the exception of his Cheese switch. But again, his Cheese switch seems more town-motivated than not to me. So yea, right now I'm going with the idea that sylver is town. Unless da0ud shows up and counter-claims, I don't see how we shouldn't believe Djod. The only chance that it's a lie at this point is if a scum Djod deliberately gambled on there not being a jailkeeper to counter-claim. Which seems like a really long shot to me. So that means I need to decide what I feel about Rad, Clarity, Obzy and da0ud. I agree with Rad that da0ud being ballsy and voting debears when everyone was going after Cheese probably makes him town. His explanation's also from what I recall generally make sense. However, I'll take a last look at da0ud and see just what I feel. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
What do you think about Clarity's case against Obzy? Specifically, what do you think about Clarity making that case on Obzy? Does it make him look more town? or less? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 07:14 Alsn wrote: @Rad What do you think about Clarity's case against Obzy? Specifically, what do you think about Clarity making that case on Obzy? Does it make him look more town? or less? EBWOP: For the record, I think it makes him look less town, but I'd like to hear your answer before I say why. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I already agree with the fact that Clarity's case against Obzy isn't necessarily wrong. But what I wanted to know was how you thought Clarity making a case on Obzy reflected on Clarity's likelihood of being town/scum. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 07:40 Clarity_nl wrote: Seeing as he has pretty much done exactly nothing but say "uh, yea, your arguments aren't wrong". I think I'd rather judge him on his case against you than how he responds to your case on him.@ Rad and Alsn How do you feel about Obzy's comments specifically addressed to me so far. Basically, I don't see how he could ever refute your case. He has been apologetic, but just because it says so in a guide doesn't mean he must be scum because of it. Either way, I don't necessarily think his response to you matters all that much. It doesn't make him look better, for sure, but until he explains why he wants you lynched, it's pretty much a null read to me. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 07:46 Rad wrote: Hm, I suppose it is WIFOM at that. I was referring to exactly that, him making a case against someone you FoSed earlier. Although at this point I suppose there aren't enough players that you can pick an original target anymore(other than da0ud, he seems to be the only one no one suspects).I can't think of any reason he would or wouldn't make the case on obzy that isn't based purely on WIFOM. Null tell. He made a case on obzy, great, I can see town or scum doing that, can't you? Coincidentally it will cause djo to go even crazier against us since I've only FoS'd 3 people since d2 started: obzy, djo, and sylver. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Most importantly, I initially sympathized with Clarity's statement that Djod was being unfair to him (see this post, first paragraph) and that that's why Clarity decided to make a case against debears. On the other hand, he said he had a "case on hand" against Djod if it looked like he was about to be lynched. That actually gives me the impression that he could have had the case against debears "on hand" too, just waiting for me or someone else to make a case at a similar time so it wouldn't look like he was sheeping. I kept thinking Djod might actually be scum and that Clarity was just stuck in an unfortunate situation, but seeing as Djod has now made a believable claim as JK, I think the likelihood of Clarity just not wanting to be "stuck" with a case against someone he knows to be town has gone up dramatically. I think the Cheese claim probably came as a great relief, as Clarity had said he was "doubting himself" because no one else thought debears was scum. If Cheese hadn't claimed, Clarity would probably have had to post the case against Djodref at some point in order to stay consistent. In fact, his extreme unwillingness to post his case against Djod now has me very concerned. Why would he not post it? Even as Djodref was attacking Clarity enough that Rad felt the need to step in and defend him. Why would he not just say why he thought Djod was scummy? Now he probably never can, because Djod has a believable claim. But what am I supposed to think here? That he just wanted to give Djod another chance? Why? He's now shown that he's perfectly willing to attack someone for using the newbie card like Obzy has done, but he was never willing to post his case on Djod... why, exactly? I find his reluctance to do so very scummy and I can't find enough town reasons in his posting to see why I should forgive that. So without further ado: ##Vote: Clarity_nl I'd really like it if a majority of the thread actually make up their mind well ahead of lynch so we don't get another "eeeh, I don't really wanna lynch clarity or debears but I don't know who the fuck else we should lynch" at ~3-4 hours before lynch. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 08:51 Clarity_nl wrote: Who? Djod? Or Obzy?@ Rad Do you believe his behavior in his last couple of posts is consistent with his behavior in the rest of the game Actually I'd like Alsn to answer this too. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 08:59 da0ud wrote: Like I stated earlier in response to sylver.I personally think that if we had confirmed all the VTs it would only have made sense for scum to kill them at night and not the blue. They want to keep uncertainty and don't want to be outnumbered by VTs. I think this is as well the reason Debears got killed cause he is the one who got the most genuine reaction to CC claim. If it was possible to 100% no doubt whatsoever confirm every VT in the game the game would be over. Unless there are more than 2 blue players, all the VTs would have to do is vote out a non-vt every day. Even if they mislynch the blue players twice in a row, they would still be 3 VT vs 2 scum at the beginning of D3. The fact remains, there's no way to confirm all the VTs because anyone(blue or scum) could just lie and say that they are VT. Stop discussing it please, it leads nowhere. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 09:51 Clarity_nl wrote: To be fair, I see only two possibilities right now. Either you're right and he's actually scum, or he's actually quite good at making reads, just not particularly confident about them.EBWOP Oh I'm confusing myself now, I asked you earlier if obzy contradicted himself. I mean his behavior. Suddenly he is giving me advice and acting like an analytical genius. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 10:01 Clarity_nl wrote: No you're right, but I was just pointing out that if he's not scum I think your statement was a nice compliment. If everyone is going to base their reads off of the fact that I made an argument for or against it, we're not going to get anywhere. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Clarity is most likely lying, as I do not think there would be a second Cop. The reason for that is that I'm cop. I knew that Djod was telling the truth about roleblocking me last night, but I wasn't sure how "sure" I could be about his roleclaim being correct. I know I was because I did not get a result. I investigated Obzy last night because I was worried about him having such a strong town read on both me and Rad(who I at the time thought was town). My terrible crumb for that claim can be found here: + Show Spoiler + On November 06 2012 07:03 Alsn wrote: Ok, just would like to say that I've been looking over Clarity and Djodref today. I feel like Clarity has a good chance of being town. He tried to break up the fight between debears and Rad over the percentage, he made a case against debears at a time where I thought myself that debears might be scum. I don't get the feeling that he's only trying to stay consistent. If he was worried about that I don't think he would have jumped on Cheese for the claim as hard as he did. Since a scum Clarity would have known that Cheese was town, I'd be much more suspicious of him if he chickened out and voted debears in order to stay consistent. Instead he attacked Cheese pretty hard for claiming, something which was sure to bring him a lot of attention seeing as he would have known how the Cheese lynch would end. I'm however not as sure about Djod. He's definitely acting like I would expect a town Djod to act(acting like Clarity has "lost" the game and should just reveal his partner and stuff like that definitely fits with town Djod from XXVIII. I also don't see why he would ask about scum mechanics(framer mechanics, specifically) out in the open if he was scum. Nor why he would attack Cheese(who a scum Djod would know was town) for joking. All those things considered, I find most of his accusations to be really empty, like he's looking for "excuses" to attack someone, rather than actually considering their motives. He attacks sylver for vote pressuring, something which Cheese pointed out and that I commended him for, but I dismissed it later because I was thinking "nah, that's just Djod!". His case against Clarity then accuses clarity of blending in and not following up on his reads. Yet Clarity actually gave pretty convincing answers for why he hadn't done so. He kept saying he was going to make a case in the latter half of D1, he did. He had also stated that well before Djod made his case against him. The latter half of Djod's case against Clarity is seeing ghosts where there are none. He accuses Clarity of denying making a list but the post Djod quotes says nothing of the sort. I'm suspecting maybe there's some confirmation bias shenanigans going on here, but I can see where Cheese was coming from with regards to how hard it is to read Djod. That being said, if there aren't any other scummy looking people tomorrow, Djod is looking like my vote is best placed for now. I haven't yet looked into sylver very much since the beginning half of D1, but we have two days. I'm thinking I might need to look at Obzy next, or possibly Rad as I don't have much other than that I like their posting so far. And I'd also like it if da0ud answered my question from earlier today. With that, I feel like things need to start rolling again before I know for sure who I want to lynch tomorrow. I'm off to sleep, although I can check in after I finish watching the DS9 episode I'm currently watching if anyone wants to know something. Unfortunately, I didn't really expect that I wouldn't be able to breadcrumb my result and that was the best I could come up with for my good night post. I investigated him because I thought he'd be the least likely of being framed, and because I knew if there was a possible framer, a green check was more reliable than a red check. I also read in Ace's vigi/cop guide that investigating "lynch bait" was bad form, so I went with the highest scum read I had at the time that was in no danger of being lynched. However, I have a breadcrumb for my actual role. On November 05 2012 10:17 Alsn wrote: Snut = Swedish slang for cop, snut film = cop movie. Go google translate swedish -> english and type "snut" if you'd like. Djod, thanks for the inspiration as it's outright plagiarism of your XXVIII claim.This flavour... I feel like I'm part of a snut film or some weird fanfic. But well, that truly sucks, I seriously hoped I was actually right because this is a pretty shitty situation. It would have been way better if people had been forced to actually vote for someone with reasoning other than pretty much the entire wagon sheeping. That being said, I'm confident that there's something of value among all these votes and the chaos pre-lynch. That'll have to wait for tomorrow however as I really need to be getting some sleep. I was pretty worried that Djod was on the wrong track with Clarity when I went to bed last night. Suffice to say, I'm not any longer. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Unfortunately, I think the claim was bait to get me to claim due to scum seeing Clarity as a lost cause but things being as they were I didn't want to risk Clarity getting away. I guess I'll just have to be happy with being a glorified VT. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I will need to leave for a couple of hours soon, but I'll only be gone for max two hours and then I'll be around until lynch. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 08 2012 00:03 sylverfyre wrote: "Plan"? What in my statement was anywhere complicated enough that it constitutes a "plan"? I don't see any scenario where trying to "catch" the last scum with the JK roleblock is anything but the optimal strategy, known or not. Trying to protect anyone from being killed when you also have a roleblock attached is silly imho. Going after someone who's scummy(and revealing the name) is by far the best option. If he hits scum, scum can't NK or frame or roleblock at all that night. If he doesn't, the entire thread gains information equal to a cop check with only one exception, if scum decides not to kill anyone. It's a win-win.Kinda wish you let djo come to his own conclusion on that. Now scum knows the Night action plan too. Though I guess if Djo doesn't like it, the scum ends up in a WIFOM situation trying to outsmart the blue powers? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Oh, that's unfortunate about the JK roleblock thing. Hopefully either Clarity is the roleblocker or there isn't a roleblocker(since he said he was roleblocked in order to get out of having to share a cop read, it might mean that he wanted to be able to roleblock people in order to keep his story straight if we somehow didn't lynch him). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 08 2012 02:45 Djodref wrote: Yes, I'm pretty convinced of that. I'm just not sure if it's sylver or Rad. Rad has been doing some pretty damn fish anti-town moves all throughout this day while I find sylver's scum motives to be unlikely. That being said, it's not like sylver is some patron saint of townieness at this stage. I think the biggest thing pointing in his favour of being town is his fixation on a cheese/debears scum team late D1 in combination with cheese being lynched and then going on and NKing debears. I suppose it makes sense that the only one that had been on their side on D1(me) had abandoned the debears scum cause, so they figured they'd get rid of him since I considered him town. But yea.@Alsn I have a very good feeling when I see Obzy and daoud acknoledge each other. My town read on them is reinforced. Nice job guys ! Good grasp of the situation Would you also conclude that the remaining scum is sylver or Rad ? Either way, once Clarity flips we will be 5 town vs 1 scum. Even assuming the worst(that you are wrong about sylver being scum or that the last scum is roleblocker and can kill Djod) we will be 4 town vs 1 scum D3, so we can afford one mislynch no matter what. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 08 2012 02:45 Djodref wrote: Djod, keep in mind at this point, there's basically no gain whatsoever for scum to oppose the Clarity lynch for any reason. If scum for some reason isn't sylver or possibly Rad, that person would have everything to gain from sucking up to you and your master plan like you're the messiah or something.@Alsn I have a very good feeling when I see Obzy and daoud acknoledge each other. My town read on them is reinforced. Nice job guys ! Good grasp of the situation Would you also conclude that the remaining scum is sylver or Rad ? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
So, assuming that I'm right and there's no framer, we can probably assume that if Clarity flips RB, his partner is a goon. While if he flips goon, the odds of his partner being roleblocker goes up dramatically(although framer isn't entirely out of the picture like I mentioned above). | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
/hides | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Also, gg Clarity, see you in the post-game! | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 08 2012 15:55 da0ud wrote: Let's just get this out of the way. Take my word for it(as the chances are pretty high I will die tonight) Djo is 100% confirmed town no matter what period.Would there be any chance that Djo could have fakeclaimed as mafia RB in order to bully/buss his partner Clarity ? | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
If there's not a roleblocker and Djod targets the remaining scum, no one will die and it should be pretty easy to figure out an optimal course of action during the next day based on who he actually targeted. Basically, I think the only thing we can really control is Djod's target tonight, he should just take great care to try and pick the correct one. I should obviously use my power on someone in the hopes that there isn't actually a roleblocker, but the success of it is completely out of my hands. That being said, I'll try and actually go through some filters before I (probably) die tonight in the hopes of finding some actual evidence. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
There was a problem in the setup which marv was forced to correct really quickly but unfortunately he didn't have time to do so(I made a stupid statement which Rad found before I figured out what was happening or what it meant). I'll hold off on stating the details until there's an official word about the game's end, but yea, I don't think this game was particularly fair against mafia because of it. :/ | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 00:02 sylverfyre wrote: Woah. I bet that was because of my statements around the lynch? Why does everyone hate me. My night 1 action was to roleblock Alsn. (Had you pegged!) We killed debears mostly because of activity. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Bah, why the fuck Djodref left his posting hat in my room I have no idea... | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 00:27 Djodref wrote: You were somewhat right that I made that case pretty quickly. But I type pretty fast. @ Alsn I thought that your Cheesecake case was a way out for your scumbuddy It was the first time to see you post a case in a condensed post after only 2 hours On top of that, there was some serious double standards involved. Also, I had been slightly suspicious of Cheese for a long time(I blame Obzy! He kept dropping those god damn hints!) so I had a pretty good idea of why I found him scummy. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I kept thinking that there was a chance that he was telling the truth about trying to "fake" a possibility for scum that he was either blue/VT but was really VT in order to protect the real blues(you and me) until he claimed cop. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
 | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Actually though, I didn't even pay much attention to Cheese's Regular Fapper claims. I think I probably realised in the back of my head somewhere that he was saying that he was VT, but I didn't pay much attention to it until the thread blew up. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
I'm finding it hard to find the confidence in believing his[Clarity's] lynch will flip red, mostly because of how difficult it has been to actually make a convincing argument that he is. About the only "sure" tell that I have is his reaction to the whole VT claim ordeal and that's only because I know for a fact he's not blue, he could still be telling the truth about "finding out" and just be an overzealous VT trying to protect the blue players through not claiming. Comparatively, I could make a Rad or Obzy scum case in my sleep. Or even da0ud, possibly, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I don't actually know if I was entirely right on that last point, because I never actually tried to make a case against either of them. But I found it really hard to find convincing evidence against you other than the Cheese incident™. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 01:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Yes, that's how I meant it anyway. :DThat is a good thing, right? :D edit: Basically, I claimed blue to pull you into the open. With the tiny tiny chance rad is bluffing and there's no counter claim. Oh, I see, yea, I kinda figured that was it but I couldn't be sure. In that same PM to Hapa I just quoted I rambled on about my role probably being useless even if I didn't claim(because I figured I'd look scummy and Djod or an actual scum would block me if I didn't claim) so I was expecting having to claim if people stopped suspecting you and started figuring that I was scum for some reason. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 02:00 Obzy wrote: Holy shit don't do that, edit it quick before the entire forum decides to call you (and debears, it's Obzy not Obsy >:0!) | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: Oh hell no. His show of emotion was about the only thing that I did not think confirmed him town. Maybe I'm just experienced at lying about my emotions(yea, not my finest RL attribute I admit) but I'm totally paranoid about stuff like that.@ Clarity I'm not sure... People are not only rational, did you notice how Obzy got almost confirmed town with his post ? I don't think that's something you should use too much but if you are apathetic, you can also be pinned for it. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 02:23 Keirathi wrote: I forgive you. <3Hey, I don't call you Alan after the first time! And that time, its only because I had never seen you post and had played with alan133 imperfection is a bastard though(and thrawn too for going along with his silly schemes) and when(not if) I eventually get to NK him out of spite it will be a beautiful day indeed. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 02:55 marvellosity wrote: True, but oh how good it will feel.Then your journey to the dark side will be complete, because you will be NKing for trivialities and not gameplay. The final success of the alan scheme. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 03:05 debears wrote: I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU.Well game over Gg guys I'm late to the party | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
However, I think at the time your situation just seemed a bit too desperate for us to put any real effort into questioning Obzy's motives. The case itself wasn't bad, it just wasn't particularly good at directing attention elsewhere due to the circumstances. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Thanks everyone! <3 | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 09 2012 08:33 Keirathi wrote: I see that you decided to not mention the alignments of either of you. Honest mistake? Or scumslip?I've gotten marv lynched once. | ||
|
Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
| ||
| ||
