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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
If your vote is not properly formatted it might not be counted. Everyone is required to vote. sylverfyre (2) - djodref, debears debears (1) - sylverfyre da0ud (0) - Not Voting (6) - Obzy, Rad, Alsn, Clarity_nl, Mr. Cheesecake, da0ud Currently, sylverfyre is set to be lynched! If you see that your vote is incorrect then pm me. You have about 33 hours left to vote! Deadline is at 01:00 GMT (+00:00) | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 03 2012 22:06 da0ud wrote: I see your point Djodref but I don't think because someone else votes another one for being a "poor" contirbutor and sees that as a scum read would make himself scum. He is trying to put pressure on Debears in order to get him to maybe post less and better content. That wasn't his point though, and why do you assume (or know) that sylver's motivations are to put pressure on debears? On November 03 2012 23:35 da0ud wrote: Yes. Explanation of where I think you are wrong is in the previous post : the same one you said i am defending Slyfire and he can use it as a rope to start his own defense. What is the point of your question if you already replied to its own answer ? You say you explained in your previous post but you didn't. You are accusing Djodref of accusing someone against his better judgement... Please be more specific with what you disagree with in his posts. On November 04 2012 00:29 da0ud wrote: your case against Sylver is way more constructed than Djo's initial scumslip read. I agree on most point apart maybe for the last point in red which might be over exagerated interpretation. Dont you think Debears ? I think I understand what you mean by this, but you're going to have to clarify. Stop being so vague! My interpretation of what you mean: "Just because sylver said the townies are dedicated doesn't mean he knows who the townies are, he just meant people in general during the daycycle" I'm not sure I agree with you... but you could still be more clear! On November 04 2012 00:31 da0ud wrote: I did not say you misinterpreted the thread, I just said you did take too fast conclusions in my opinion. I like more the case against Sylver by Debears than yours. Yes, but WHY do you like Debears's case more? Specifics! Please stop being so vague da0ud. You don't have a lot of posts but all of them are basically "I agree with you" or "I don't agree with you" | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On November 03 2012 20:22 Djodref wrote: @ sylverfyre So let me sum up the situation. You join the thread and directly vote for debears mainly because there is a lot of fluff in it. Then you say that you are voting him to "cast suspicion with your vote". I'm sorry but I'm voting somebody when I find them suspicious, not to cast suspicion on him. Do you know who is voting innocent players to cast suspicion on them ? Mafia. (Not sure if debears is innocent in this case, I have seen things I don't really like in his filter) I'm taking this for a scumslip and the most suspicious thing I have seen in this thread so far. ##Vote sylverfire @ Clarity It answers your question I'm trying to bring in a playstyle more comfortable to me. (random/semi-random)Voting early as a way to cast suspicion is not a strange way to play. Look at other games, other players use it a lot too. It's not a scum slip to use a vote rather than an FOS to indicate, it's a playstyle choice and I'm trying to use a different playstyle. Now, if I sat on this vote all the way up til near lynch time, that could be construed as a scum slip (active lurking). And CC/Debears high fluff content is the only thing I found bad for town last night. If all my vote does is stop the massive fluff... that's fine. Shit, debears is using a pressure vote too. I disagree (significantly) that this setup is mafia favored. With only 2 mafia, it allows for few mistakes on part of mafia. @Debears OMGUS, much? I vote you, ask that you post less fluff because fluff accomplishes nothing for the town but fills the thread with useless information. It's a pressure vote, and a request. I had NOT obviously been following this thread, debears. How can you know what I was doing IRL? I show up, and I read the ENTIRE thread thoroughly. I spent an hour making that post. Shit, rad even pointed out that I don't normally get online until around midnight EDT. It was a friday friggin night and you expect me to be glued to the computer from gamestart to midnight? It was 3am when I went to bed. And finally, on your final point: I'm not saying townies will be more dedicated this game. I'm saying PLAYERS will be more dedicated this game. Why? The game filled up instantly and we don't have anyone from last game who lurked like crazy except for da0ud (who was on vacation, and is presumably more available now. I hope.) We have no Roco69 players this game, even da0ud has posted some content now. I don't think we'll have a day 1 lynch with anything less than 9 votes cast. Your scumslip is grasping at straws and making up scum tells is really bad for town. Leaving my vote on you. I'm not asking you to post less content. You're posting content. Your filter has content. I'm asking you to take a few more minutes to assemble your posts, so that you aren't using seven oneliners within 15 minutes of each other, making your filter hard to read. Lay off the fluff. It'll help everyone more. The You v Alsn exchange didn't bring up much at all, either. But the pressure is good. On November 03 2012 20:22 Djodref wrote: @ sylverfyre So let me sum up the situation. You join the thread and directly vote for debears mainly because there is a lot of fluff in it. Then you say that you are voting him to "cast suspicion with your vote". I'm sorry but I'm voting somebody when I find them suspicious, not to cast suspicion on him. Do you know who is voting innocent players to cast suspicion on them ? Mafia. (Not sure if debears is innocent in this case, I have seen things I don't really like in his filter) I'm taking this for a scumslip and the most suspicious thing I have seen in this thread so far. ##Vote sylverfire @ Clarity It answers your question Oh, I'm sorry. Town should never vote for innocent players or cast suspicion on people - never mind that they don't know who is innocent. Do you know that debears is innocent? | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: On Obsy Obsy has been around the thread. What I have found is that he seems to be actively lurking. Notice above post. Asking a pretty much useless question. It's newbie town/scum tell, so it's a null tell (*ONE) He has a few one-liners like the above. Mostly, his posts do not take a strong stance and his opinions seem to be easily swayed. Again newbie town/scum tell. (*TWO) I don't like this post. At all. Trying to come up with excuses to not be posting. Sure the thread is moving pretty decently (score one for town), but it's nothing huge and pretty easy to follow so far imo. Here he acts confused. He asks questions without answering them himself or even really attempting to answer them himself. Who have a tough time contributing early? Usually scum because 1) They are afraid to post and put themselves out there since they are guilty and know so 2) They know the players they are accusing are town and they can't actually find real evidence to use However, I admit this is also a newbie town trait. (*THREE) Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread. Summary: Obsy has been actively lurking and blending in His posts are indicative of newbie town/scum however they are looking slightly scummy at this point (*WHAT?) @Obsy 1) Defend yourself against these points 2) Go ask for some coaching help (It'll help you improve more quickly) Of debear's 5 points on Obzy, 3 of them he admits could be newbie town (so null read), and 2 of them he comes to no conclusion. Then he SOMEHOW suddenly comes to the conclusion that obzy's looking slightly scummy? WHAT? Also, at the point of your post, it's the beginning hours of d1. Seriously, active lurking and blending concerns already? If he's newbie town, he has no fucking idea what he's supposed to do at this point. Yet debears is throwing out serious concerns as if they're legitimate at that point in the game. Not only does this set of "evidence" of obzy's "slight scuminess" not actually, at any point, suggest scum over newbie town, but it directly attacks obzy's motivation and confidence. What better way to shut down a newbie town than to attempt to trash him from the start? On November 04 2012 00:54 debears wrote: You are way overblowing my post on obsy. 1) I only said useless, not worthless. Stop putting words in my mouth 2) Yeah it's cool to encourage him, but you have to still scumhunt 3) You said that you were going to make a case later today and be more passive. How is that case going to come about if you aren't actively trying to find scum in the thread? I was in no way talking shit to him. I was stating my views on him. 1 sentence and 1 word in that sentence is hardly talking shit. In no way was it an, 'OH HES DEFINITELY SCUM GUYS'. It was a "you're posts are slightly scummy, defend yourself and contribute". Why are you overblowing my post? #1 oh, really?: On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote: Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread. #2 & #3 I'm scumhunting, right now, like I said I would  You're right, you weren't saying OH HES DEFINITELY SCUM GUYS. You came to a stupid conclusion that he's slightly scummy based on a bunch of null tells. More importantly, you were trying to shut him down from the beginning. What town motivation is there to make the new guy feel useless and worthless? None. It's a scum motivation. FoS debears | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 03 2012 14:44 sylverfyre wrote: Holy shit, this flavor. What. If we're gonna lynch a lurker, I'd rather it be early game than late, at least. But I think that we have more... dedication among the townies this game. There wasn't a long wait for the last few signups - everyone here seems pretty pumped to play some mafia seriously. I don't think lurker policy lynch will come up at all. You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
I concede on the worthless point. Also, there are two ways of encouraging newbies to post 1) Pressure 2) Kindness I chose 1 initially. Notice my reaction after Obsy responds. Would you say that is talking shit to him? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I don't know debears alignment. I'm already saying it in the post where I vote against you. I think town players should not use their vote to cast suspicion upon someone. Town players should build cases to convince everybody to lynch the player they find the most suspicious. You have the right to be suspicious of debears. But I think you have to bring better reasons to persuade us to do so. If you think that casting suspicion upon him is enough and expect other players to build a case against debears for you, then I would say that you are mafia. Why did you use the word townies instead of players ? | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:16 debears wrote: @Rad I concede on the worthless point. Also, there are two ways of encouraging newbies to post 1) Pressure 2) Kindness I chose 1 initially. Notice my reaction after Obsy responds. Would you say that is talking shit to him? Pressure's fine with me. That wasn't pressure though. That was an attack on his ego and the only motivation I can see for it is to shut him down fast and create a lurker out of him (which, as you know, many of us would want to lynch). What reaction of yours to his response are you talking about? All I see is "So what is your exact read on me? Scum, slightly scum, null, slightly town, or town?" but that's just a question, not motivational or de-motivational. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 03 2012 14:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: *Sigh* Of course I'm focused on defending myself. I started to post some stuff you on Debears in regards to Alsn posting about you, but then Djo proceeds to tunnel me. Here's the obligitory OMGUS case on Djo. I learned a lot of stuff from Nack last game, despite him being an arrogant SOB. I made this exact mistake last game as scum, "Djo is not off the hook" thing. He wants to ensure that his suspicions for me are known. As town, he would not have to make this statement because he would have faith that we already know that. Again, another exact mistake I made last game. Feeling the need to tell people that you have been reading the thread. For the second part, he's assuring that we realize that he knows this game is important to him. As town, he wouldn't feel the need to tell us that the game is important. Then there is the entire "joke" case he makes, which is, no matter how you slice it, a terrible argument. He summons it up from nowhere and makes a huge deal about it. I want to drop the conversation because it's irrelevant and cluttering the thread. He insists that there is something there, but I reiterate, there is not. Need I even mention how utterly hypocritical this post is? ##FOS: Djodref @ Cheese Here is my response regarding your FoS on me. I've inserted your post in the spoiler. First of all, let me say that using OMGUS to vote people is more a mafia trait than a town trait. Dandel has been really OMGUsing me last game when I have made my case against me. Anyway, you have your reasons, so let me address them. Regarding the "you are still on my radar" part, I've been tunneling you for a while and I have not been fully satisfied with your explanations. Nevertheless, we agreed that we should better drop our argument because I was going too far and started to post some posts irrelevant to this game. I was just expressing my opinion on you after our argument which could have been different if you had provided me better explanations. About me re-reading the thread, I was trying to explain you and everyone the context for my sudden FoS on you. You attacked me on the logic but I think the logic was fine because debears had FoS Alsn and I had FoS you for different reasons. In fact, I've realized that I had just dropped a bomb in the thread. That was my initial intent to spark discussion but I got bad feedback about it so I wanted to give better context. To finish about jokes, I'm totally for using jokes in this game But I've been using jokes on purpose when I was mafia to buddy some other players or to lightly cast suspicion on them. So I'm wary of the "scum tell" jokes. In France, we say that there is also a part of truth in jokes and lies  And I've been an hypocrite, I admit it. But I really laughed to debears joke ^^ | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Taking a look at Djodref's reason, he seems to consider "casting suspicion" to be a scum slip, yet that would mean he considers a FOS a scum slip? Because that's essentially what a FOS is, casting a finger of suspicion on someone. Particularly, debears used his vote against da0ud in essentially the same way(as a way to paint suspicion against da0ud and get him to right his path), yet Djod did not find debears suspicious enough to vote him. This coupled with the fact that he made a case against Cheese based on jokes suggests to me that he's grasping at straws. FoS Djodref Debears on the other hand is OMGUS voting. His points 1 and 2 contradicts each other, his point 8 mentions a supposed scum slip when the paragraph is merely an answer to what sylver thinks about lurker policy, something which debears brought up in the first place! Saying that the town seems more dedicated when there's not a single truly lurking player in the game(at least considering the short amount of time the game has been up) seems about as genuine an answer that one can give at this point. Debears, how about you either start addressing sylver's points instead of your list of bullet points which are almost all entirely wrong or contradictory(3 is flat out wrong, sylver did in fact point out that you had content, but that it was buried among your - according to him fluffy - other posts. Which would be the opposite of neglecting to mention). You've also now used the "omg he ran away after posting so I can't question him!" twice, first against me, now against him. Why is it people sticking around until it suits you a requirement for being town? Also, you were keen on pointing out that you thought sylver considered you town as something scummy, yet at the same time you point out that you are among the most active players, painting yourself as some beacon of townieness. You did the same the last game where you called out Djod for "defending you" in order to state to the thread that "oh look! scum thinks I'm town!". Also coupled with the argument that someone else made(sorry, I don't remember right now) that you seemed to be bullying Obzy and creating a bad town atmosphere definitely fits your scum profile. FoS debears I find it unlikely that both of you are scum at this point, but I find the behaviour of both of you worrisome. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
A little bit of context for the useless and worthless words. They were used to group 3 players, not just obsy On November 03 2012 13:28 debears wrote: More semantics, anyways it's useless. What do you think of Obsy's, Dau0d's, and Sylver's epic uselessness so far? Also, why didn't I bash him for being general if I'm so set on shutting him out? Why did I ask a very specific question that is easy to answer in response? | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:20 Djodref wrote: @ sylverfire I don't know debears alignment. I'm already saying it in the post where I vote against you. I think town players should not use their vote to cast suspicion upon someone. Town players should build cases to convince everybody to lynch the player they find the most suspicious. You have the right to be suspicious of debears. But I think you have to bring better reasons to persuade us to do so. If you think that casting suspicion upon him is enough and expect other players to build a case against debears for you, then I would say that you are mafia. Why did you use the word townies instead of players ? So, you say that town players shouldn't vote as a pressure move / attract suspicion to someone? You used your vote last game on Inig as vote pressure: On October 26 2012 09:16 Djodref wrote: I have already my eyes on you and I think that your posts lack content and scumhunting. You are my top scumread right now. Let's assume that the lurkers are going to get modkill today, who would you like to lynch ? Vote-pressuring you ## Vote Inig Same with Nack: On October 28 2012 22:44 Djodref wrote: We still have no insight from Nackht at all. He has only said that he was sure that Kush was scum. I'm not sure about Cheese anymore. I'm null on him right now. His case shows good scumhunting efforts, even if they go in the wrong direction. Him using a "djo attempt to discredit me" paragraph in his case is a towntell for me because it shows that he has natural sense of innocence (in opposition of the usual self-culpability). If he still believes I am scum after my answers to his case, I want him to look for my potential scumbuddies. No by association by the way because I am town and anyway you should wait for me to flip to start this kind of thing. I want dandel to decide if I am scum or SK and bring consequent proofs to his case. I'm very very wary of Nackht. He has given us nothing (expect him being sure that Kush was scum) so far and I don't understand why a town replacement would be retaining info like he does. The other thing speaking against him is that I don't have a strong scumread at the moment and it makes the probability for the lurkers to be mafia higher. So I hope that we have a modkill on Roco today. I'm going to vote pressure him to make nackht talk. Keeping this vote on him until he gives us a complete assessment of what is going on here according to him. He promised it but he has just given us a "lol" so far. ##Vote nackhtjogger You obviously believe in vote pressure to cast suspicion from a townie perspective. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:13 debears wrote: debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho.You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Remember that I spent last game mostly obsing, and it was depressing watching town lose because of inactivity when 2 out of 3 scum had blatantly labelled scum. I said what I said because I don't WANT that to happen this game. And I don't think any of these 9 players will do that. Just because "oh, I'm the most active" doesn't mean you're the only one contributing. I am expecting a better game this time, and predicting that we aren't going to need to enact a policy lynch on lurking, or have town suffer from excessive lurking. Why are you trying to read more into what I said anyway? Maybe I said townies because I am scum. Maybe I said townies because I'm town. You can't read into it - it's just a dumb WIFOM loop. Or maybe, I'm just talking about the whole friggin game and you're reading WAY TOO MUCH into arbitrary word choice. (technically, even scum are "part of the town" when it comes to posting voting and lynching) I reiterate: Your vote is both OMGUS and backed up by arbitrary "scum tells". Also it's interesting that you're defending your own "make them post with pressure" while OMGUS voting me. You know your OMGUS vote is doing here? Nothing. It's just keeping my pressure on you, because they remove any reason. (Press F5 to check thread again) I liked "Confidence" a whole hell of a lot better than "Useless." Useless reeks of hostility. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Debears on the other hand is OMGUS voting. His points 1 and 2 contradicts each other, his point 8 mentions a supposed scum slip when the paragraph is merely an answer to what sylver thinks about lurker policy, something which debears brought up in the first place! Saying that the town seems more dedicated when there's not a single truly lurking player in the game(at least considering the short amount of time the game has been up) seems about as genuine an answer that one can give at this point. Give me some specifics on why my points are wrong | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Now that's something I can believe has a chance of actually being a scum slip. Nice find.So, you say that town players shouldn't vote as a pressure move / attract suspicion to someone? You used your vote last game on Inig as vote pressure: Same with Nack: You obviously believe in vote pressure to cast suspicion from a townie perspective. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:31 debears wrote: @Rad A little bit of context for the useless and worthless words. They were used to group 3 players, not just obsy Also, why didn't I bash him for being general if I'm so set on shutting him out? Why did I ask a very specific question that is easy to answer in response? So you're saying you like to use the word useless, whether it's against a complete newbie or some other people who aren't inputing a whole lot at that point. Stop that shit. It's a de-motivational concept that's anti-town. It might be useful later in the game, but no one has proven themselves to be useless this early in the game. Why didn't you bash him for being general? Who knows. WIFOM either way if I try to figure that out. Why did you ask a very specific question that is easy to answer? Again, can't answer that without WIFOM. Maybe you wanted to spark up some discussion from him (town) or maybe you just want to look like you're being useful by giving questions that will certainly be answered (scum). | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 03 2012 23:44 debears wrote: 1) Sylver had obviously been following the thread before this post, yet he posts it AFTER I leave the thread. This is especially alarming considering he suddenly accuses and votes me for terribad reasoning 2) It's a big post, showing that he had it written for a while You say it's a big post and that it must have taken a while to write, yet you don't even acknowledge the possibility that maybe that's why you weren't around any more? Because it had taken him a lot of time to write it and you had simply left at that point? Given your point 2) I don't see how you can at the same time accuse him of deliberately waiting until you were gone. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
On November 04 2012 01:39 Alsn wrote: debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho. I agree with the underlined. As scum last game I focused on Djo's scumslip to help push his lynch even though it was a very questionable one. | ||
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