Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX - Page 73

On October 31 2012 01:56 Rad wrote:
@nackht so you're certain debears is town?

On October 31 2012 01:49 Alsn wrote:
Ok, working yet again under the theory that Cheese and Dandel are of different alignments, I'm seriously starting consider if Cheese might be the third scum.

First of all, I find Cheese' explanation for why he thought Djod was scum and not SK highly suspect. Mostly because he made the clarification for why he thought so after Rad claimed vigi. At the time, I was considering a slight possibility for Djo to be SK. After the NK, there was either an SK or Vig. I was sure he was scum, and if not scum then surely SK. (SK would have been the case for his lone wolf behavior). Once Rad claimed Vig, I had Djo pinned as scum.

Secondly, he kept Dandel open as a lynch target as soon as I made my case but he had given no indication whatsoever earlier in the thread that he really thought Dandel was scummy. The one time he actually gives his opinion on Dandel is a post giving Dandel advice that he shouldn't "act" confused. If anything, that's the very definition of scum behaviour, offering friendly advice to players they know to be town. Link here. The only thing I found suspect concerning Dandel was the fact that he was acting confused. Someone going around being like "Damn, I'm confused, Idk who's scum!" is almost as bad as playing the newbie card. In other words, telling people that you have no idea about anything isn't contributing anything. I wasn't offering him advice; I was calling him out for it. The reason I kept Dandel open as a lynch target was mainly due to his flaming. I didn't really like your case to much, but I found Dandel's reaction under pressure odd. Afterwards, he explained himself, and I wanted to continue with my Djo case because it was based on more solid facts.

Then after several posts of actually agreeing that Dandel looks scummy, he goes around and says here that - and I'm paraphrasing - "no wait, actually, I never thought Dandel was all that scummy, only his response to your case!" as well as saying my case sucked because the premise was bad. Yet the only thing my premise even suggested was that I thought Djod acting like a lone scum seemed weird and I looked at other possibilities because of it. Dandel tunnelling kush while in hindsight he probably only meant to do because kush is kush, at the time it was most certainly not a bad argument(and still isn't, but Dandel's other actions look much better for him at this point). Again, the reason I found Dandel scummy was because of his behavior in reaction to your post, not because of your case itself. This is the same reason I found Inig to be suspicious Day 1--the part where he was getting all emotional and calling arguments stupid. I was considering switching my vote because flamming, and subsequently not explaining yourself, just screams "I'm scum, I slipped and can't defend myself".

Interestingly, the point that this happened at is after several posters had criticised me for WIFOMing about Djod(debears among others) so now Cheese must be feeling that he can't keep the option of lynching Dandel instead of Djod open any longer and tries to shut any non-Djod lynch down. I reckon he probably expected Djod to continue acting scummy but unless he conspired with both Roco and Inig I don't think he could have predicted the day to end like it did. Who could have predicted this end to d2?

The only thing I'm really questioning at this point is how exactly the pre-lynch chaos fits into all of this if both Roco and Inig are scum. Because then I don't see how Cheese could possibly be scum as unless it's an extremely ballsy bluff it just doesn't fit. I don't think scum were in any position to have to gamble on bluffing at all, getting Djod lynched seems like a pretty good result for scum to me.

Basically, right now unless I find someone else that I consider more scummy, I need to decide whether or not I want to take the risk of lynching Inig or Roco(still leaning Roco in that case by the way) or to go with an actual case, because I just don't think a rock solid case can be made against either of them. I sincerely hope that they actually try and participate from this point because otherwise I still don't see how I have any other choice than to lynch one of them.

On October 31 2012 02:42 Alsn wrote:
Your first retort doesn't make sense. I just don't understand how you can be sure someone is scum, yet if not then he must be a serial killer? The way scum and serial killer plays should be vastly different. If anything, suspecting someone as being scum should eliminate suspicions that he's a serial killer simply because their objectives and likely behaviours are vastly different.

On October 31 2012 03:26 nackhtjogger wrote:
Btw people, next time when you play town try to end the discussion about lurker policy as quickly as possible. Loosing to lurkers is awful but it's a different kind of shame than loosing to active scum. It has more to do with the ability to organize and agree on the fact that lurkers should be lynched D1 or let the vig take care of it, rather than a personal failure. This is always the right consensus to be reached for town as fast as possible, doesn't matter if you later bend it a bit.. that's the beauty of it. But you should never consider to debate bending it because it results in a shitstorm.

On October 31 2012 02:17 nackhtjogger wrote:


By process of elimination.. pretty much

On October 31 2012 03:52 nackhtjogger wrote:
The only scenario worth considering right now is that there are 2 scum. I think I've identified Cheesecake as one by pointing out his constant queries into town's approval for his courses of action and considerations, which is what belnding in really means. Blending in doesn't mean you don't notice the guy .. it just means he TRIES desperately TO BLEND IN, actively I might add. Once you have enough experience to know how that manifests you can identify this by simply reading the tone of the post.

Alsn on the other hand is another breed, his actions give away his scummness and the fact that his actions don't add up with what he claims to be thinking. If that wouldn't have been the case he would've either voted for Cheese or never mentioned that he finds cheese suspicious. What he did was .. not only anti-town in itself but it also kept other townies from doing the right thing and voting for Cheese. People started to listen to him when he said Cheese was suspicious but he sabotaged that trust and did exactly the opposite .. even saying that Dandel would be to blame for a Cheese mislynch. Oh really? That would've been 100% my fault obviously but somehow he cracked under pressure and actually believed he was going to get some heat.

I think you, debears, tried persistently to get a leader position going from the start, and I have reasons to believe you feel threatened by my appearance and the certainty I'm emanating. You must feel like I know too much or that I want nothing more than to manipulate. Certain town? Who cares if you're certain town to me or not .. the only scenario that is left for consideration is that there are 2 scum and you have heard that I'm pretty sure cheese and alsn to be it. So what's the problem .. of course I'm drawing the line at this point and I want everybody except those two on my team.

On October 30 2012 08:26 nackhtjogger wrote:


I suggest you rethink what you know about blending in because Cheesecake has neurotically tried it. He's the definition of trying to blend in.

Also he publishes his case on Djo right after Djo says he's leaving. Then I post about him and he disappears. I'm not saying he's lying about his RL issues.. but if so he's choosing his availability very conveniently.

On October 31 2012 03:58 Rad wrote:
@nackht aren't there 3 scum right now? Or am I confused O.o

On October 31 2012 04:02 Rad wrote:


Regarding the bolded part, the idea that Alsn cracked under pressure feeling like he'd take heat on a cheese mislynch suggests either Alsn is scum and knows cheese will flip town, or alsn is town so has no idea what cheese will flip and doesn't want to take heat if he flips town.

If Alsn pushes for cheese lynch and cheese is scum, there wouldn't be any heat on Alsn. The only case where there would be heat is if cheese flips town. You think both are scum. How does your argument make any sense?

On October 30 2012 08:37 Dandel Ion wrote:

Like, I hate statements like that.
You basically say you're gonna sheep me, and no matter what happens, it's my fault.

I switch to Cheese, he flips green? My fault
I stay on Djo, he flips green? Let me guess: My fault.

On October 30 2012 08:44 Alsn wrote:
Dandel, I hadn't thought of that actually(you taking all the blame if the flip *is* green). Sorry for putting you in that situation, I honestly didn't consider it.

On October 31 2012 03:52 nackhtjogger wrote:
The only scenario worth considering right now is that there are 2 scum. I think I've identified Cheesecake as one by pointing out his constant queries into town's approval for his courses of action and considerations, which is what belnding in really means. Blending in doesn't mean you don't notice the guy .. it just means he TRIES desperately TO BLEND IN, actively I might add. Once you have enough experience to know how that manifests you can identify this by simply reading the tone of the post.

Alsn on the other hand is another breed, his actions give away his scummness and the fact that his actions don't add up with what he claims to be thinking. If that wouldn't have been the case he would've either voted for Cheese or never mentioned that he finds cheese suspicious. What he did was .. not only anti-town in itself but it also kept other townies from doing the right thing and voting for Cheese. People started to listen to him when he said Cheese was suspicious but he sabotaged that trust and did exactly the opposite .. even saying that Dandel would be to blame for a Cheese mislynch. Oh really? That would've been 100% my fault obviously but somehow he cracked under pressure and actually believed he was going to get some heat.

I think you, debears, tried persistently to get a leader position going from the start, and I have reasons to believe you feel threatened by my appearance and the certainty I'm emanating. You must feel like I know too much or that I want nothing more than to manipulate. Certain town? Who cares if you're certain town to me or not .. the only scenario that is left for consideration is that there are 2 scum and you have heard that I'm pretty sure cheese and alsn to be it. So what's the problem .. of course I'm drawing the line at this point and I want everybody except those two on my team.

On October 31 2012 04:12 nackhtjogger wrote:

If there are 3 scums, there is nothing to discuss. It's game over.