EPTLooking back over these roster changes that we have claimed. Right now I don't think we'd have TWO placement swappers?
(I also don't like that we have two mechanics claiming to interact with just the player slot below someone)
Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition - Page 78
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Looking back over these roster changes that we have claimed. Right now I don't think we'd have TWO placement swappers? (I also don't like that we have two mechanics claiming to interact with just the player slot below someone) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1a) Keirathi, after he answers I want to discuss them (2) Gonzaw, I know you say your PM mentions Chell, but someone confirm what I'm seeing so I'm not just going crazy. Gonzaw was in player position 13 on D2 when I posted what the list looked like post-mementoss-flip. Gonzaw is still in player position 13 now. Matt claimed to swap Gonzaw and Keirathi on N2. Didn't claim to be rbed from rat's nest. Gonzaw never swapped. (2a) Moreover, Matt claimed to swap Keirathi on N3. Ghost claims not to have touched Keirathi. Keirathi has remained in player slot 7. (2b) This is bugging me: Each night you may target a player to hide in the rat den, roleblocking them but protecting them from 1 kp. This Rat den will stay in the players location on the player list. If a person's position in the list changes to a position of a Rat Den that player will be jailed (for the first time they are there only). "for the first time they are there only." I don't know if that means you're jailed forever until you leave jail the first time you enter, or if you are jailed the first night you enter and then not for consecutive nights. But I do know that matt hasn't claimed to be rbed. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I thought D2 looked like D1. After finding that half-written message, I swear ghost and hiropro swapped N2, NOT N3, and remained in that position on D4. Which would be consistent with no power/swap with hiropro/no power. I do not get why you wouldn't use your power some nights, or why you wouldn't fight the Drazerk lynch if you had a green check on him, or ... jeez. "I guess I checked Keirathi." I really, really dislike that. How do you not know who you checked, and how do you not swap yourself when the person below you dies? I think this is a truthful claim of a power. Probably a full role, since it's consistent with people tending to be more than a single role. But I still like Ghost for black because of the utter lack of desire to check people for scum. Town doesn't not know who they DT check in a night, and doesn't risk sitting above a dead person as a DT. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Answer all those questions, and again....react accordingly | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On October 10 2012 23:56 ghost_403 wrote: Alright, I'm a Malfunctioning sentry turret. GLaDOS swapped my turrets with a portal gun, so I can swap places with peoples at night. Also, I can check the alignment of the person below me on the player list. Night 1, I didn't move and checked JingleHell. Night 2, I swapped with HiroPro and checked Drazerk. Night 3, I guess I stayed where I was at and checked Keirathi. Do you target a spot on the player list to swap into or a specific player? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On October 11 2012 01:33 HiroPro wrote: Do you target a spot on the player list to swap into or a specific player? A specific player since he visited you (assuming my report is correct....which at this point I think it is as long as ghost is telling the truth). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
If the remaining RS wants to try to use my alt-win-con he will have to kill Matt, so if Matt's BS it's possible RS would try to kill him (or try to get him lynched) It's improbable though. I'd want to deal with a BS Chell once we kill all RS so there can't be any problems with my new traitor status (if the RS is still alive there would be a lot of trouble). His claim brings some conflicts with what other people stated. The Hiro/Keirathi check from ghost is one, and depending on what ghost says we may have a liar between the 2 of them, and it's possible it's Matt. If he's really bus driver, I don't really know why he'd lie about his actions? I mean, if he's the sole remaining BS then his ability isn't that much useful so he can easily use it "pro-town" (target 1 scum and 1 town to get the scum shot) or appear so and not lie about his reports. If he lies about his reports he can get lynched by there being conflicts (like this ghost one). If he's really busdriver then he's telling the truth most likely. If he's not busdriver and ghost is town...then it's possible he just got caught. Although everything points out that he's really Chell (proven by my role PM) and he's busdriver (flavour wise makes sense, and fake-claim bus driver seems kind of stupid for a scum with different powers), and so his reports are correct (since he'd have no reason to fake them, specially if he doesn't know what other people did and he could get caught pretty easily by lying). I hope that's the case though. Again, even if he's Chell, real busdriver and his reports are correct he could still be BS....but again that seems unlikely, no matter how bad his play has been since N1. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
You say his claim brings some conflicts with what other people stated. It also just doesn't make sense because we can clearly see that some of those swaps DID NOT HAPPEN. Neither you nor Keirathi moved on the nights he claimed to swap you guys with people. It's not that he COULD be lying, his targets have not moved. I have no idea why he would lie about his actions either if he's a bus driver, which leads me to believe he isn't. I also have no idea why Ghost, as town DT basically, would be so lackadaisical, but HIS swaps do explain the change in the player list. Matt's DO NOT. Like...I believe Ghost's roleclaim but not the blue color. I'm trying to understand why Matt would claim something that can be disproven by just the player list though. It somewhat interferes with trying to figure out which actions went where, but in such an obvious way that it's not a great mafia ploy if they're trying to mix up actions and confuse us. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Imagine ghost is town and Matt is BS....Matt has no idea about player swap and maybe just like us never noticed the ghost+Hiro N2 swap. Even if he's BS lying or something he could have claimed without taking into account the swaps We can safely assume ghost is responsible for the swapping, whether he's town or scum. And again I'm barring weird cases like ghost+Matt being scumbuddies and planning some weird shit, since again I don't think there are any team larger than 2 here (if there were they'd also be more proactive by now...you know, considering this could be a form of LYLO to them and they could easily win with a BS/town misslynch today). Anyways, the conflicts I've found with ghost's claim are these: -He visited and swapped with Hiro on N2 even though Hiro claimed he redirected an action done on him on me -He claimed he visited Keirathi last night and got a town check, but Matt bussed Kei+Hiro so he should have gotten a check on Hiro Either I misunderstood the situations, or either ghost is lying or either both Hiro and Mattchew are lying... I think this may have a little bit from both (maybe I did understand things wrong), but the 2nd situation doesn't look good at all for ghost. Considering ghost got a town check on Jingle and like I said Jingle can't be 2xframer (I assume), if ghost is town Jingle is likely town. Could we assume something like this?: Scum: Hiro+Mattchew or ghost+Jingle In the 1st case, ghost told us the truth about everything and Hiro and Matt fucked up their fake-claims for not taking into account what ghost would claim. In the 2nd case, JH is scum, ghost fake-claimed later a green check on JH to save JH's ass for now (i.e both scum want a misslynch today, not a lynch on the other guy), but ghost didn't notice the small details from Matt's and Hiro's claim so fucked up those. I think the Hiro thing might be a misunderstanding though...since it doesn't make much sense since it seems ghost did visit Hiro and swap with him regardless of alignment (meaning the swap never redirected) Maybe I'm oversimplifying things though | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 11 2012 02:52 gonzaw wrote: What does Matt have to do with the player swap? Imagine ghost is town and Matt is BS....Matt has no idea about player swap and maybe just like us never noticed the ghost+Hiro N2 swap. Even if he's BS lying or something he could have claimed without taking into account the swaps We can safely assume ghost is responsible for the swapping, whether he's town or scum. And again I'm barring weird cases like ghost+Matt being scumbuddies and planning some weird shit, since again I don't think there are any team larger than 2 here (if there were they'd also be more proactive by now...you know, considering this could be a form of LYLO to them and they could easily win with a BS/town misslynch today). Anyways, the conflicts I've found with ghost's claim are these: -He visited and swapped with Hiro on N2 even though Hiro claimed he redirected an action done on him on me -He claimed he visited Keirathi last night and got a town check, but Matt bussed Kei+Hiro so he should have gotten a check on Hiro Either I misunderstood the situations, or either ghost is lying or either both Hiro and Mattchew are lying... I think this may have a little bit from both (maybe I did understand things wrong), but the 2nd situation doesn't look good at all for ghost. Considering ghost got a town check on Jingle and like I said Jingle can't be 2xframer (I assume), if ghost is town Jingle is likely town. Could we assume something like this?: Scum: Hiro+Mattchew or ghost+Jingle In the 1st case, ghost told us the truth about everything and Hiro and Matt fucked up their fake-claims for not taking into account what ghost would claim. In the 2nd case, JH is scum, ghost fake-claimed later a green check on JH to save JH's ass for now (i.e both scum want a misslynch today, not a lynch on the other guy), but ghost didn't notice the small details from Matt's and Hiro's claim so fucked up those. I think the Hiro thing might be a misunderstanding though...since it doesn't make much sense since it seems ghost did visit Hiro and swap with him regardless of alignment (meaning the swap never redirected) Maybe I'm oversimplifying things though Oh crap, this is where we're looking at things from different angles. I've been assuming the whole time that Matt's bussing would swap positions on the player list...as in, I've been sitting here for hours thinking that he lied about every last swap and couldn't figure out why (And why one of my problems with ghost's claim was that two position swappers seemed like a lot). Throwing that out the window...I think, in random order... If Ghost is town then JH is town. If Ghost is scum, JH still town. There is the possibility that BOTH scumteams got a godfather, so I don't entirely trust checks, but JH still town. Ghost's claim that he visited Keirathi last night is wonky. Not only did mattchew bus keirathi/hiro, but LOOK AT HIS WORDING On October 10 2012 23:56 ghost_403 wrote: Night 3, I guess I stayed where I was at and checked Keirathi. N3 he GUESSES he didn't move, and claims to check Keirathi. I don't know if his check would even skip over a player slot and hit Keirathi or Hiro. Why the heck wouldn't he move himself to check Keirathi, if he wanted to do that, unless he asked Grey and knows that he checks the first person below him who is LIVING? I still think Ghost's role is correct. There had to be portals somewhere. But let's see... If Ghost is telling the truth...then yeah. He checked Keirathi N3 and not hiro, so matt didn't buss Keirathi and hiro. Either Ghost or Matt is lying about N3. If Matt is lying, then mattchew would be mafia. We would also be able to assume Ghost is being truthful about N2 and targeted Hiro. Which means Hiro is lying about being a redirector, OR there's the chance that I wandered onto him and that's something he can redirect. Ummm...I think maybe also...Matt targeted Drazerk with swap N1. Drazerk copies a random ability from the previous night, so on N2 he could have swapped someone else? I don't remember Drazerk claiming to use his random power, but if he used it on Hiro that could be another action Hiro redirected, except we didn't see any other swaps. So...my most likely conclusion is that if Ghost is telling the truth, Mattchew and Hiro are lying. We had enough players alive on N2 that me wandering onto Hiro is really unlikely. (BUT THEN THERE'S STILL THE POSSIBILITY THAT GHOST IS BLACK SCUM, AND HIS FAKECLAIM JUST HAPPENED TO CATCH TWO OTHERS, AND WE NOW HAVE 3 SCUM CAUGHT? OR 2 SCUM AND I DID WANDER ONTO HIRO?) If Ghost is the one lying, then ghost now mafia. He may be faking the check on JH, might not. I dunno, I'm still convinced that Ghost is black scum. He MAY have outed some other claims if he's being truthful in his actions, but the whole "I guess I checked x" doesn't sit right with me. I really want to know EXACTLY what he found out N3, no "I guess I did this." | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I.e if he uses his vig shot on N1 he can't use his copycat ability that same night + Show Spoiler [RolePM] + Welcome to Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition! You are Cave Johnson, The Persistent Copycat Vigilante. You founded this great company, and if there is one thing you learned is when faced with a problem, throw money at it! Your great fortune and charisma allows you to buy and copy the abilities used on you. Each daypost, you will recieve a random ability used on you the previous night. You will not be told what ability you recieve, because all that sciency stuff is for the research monkeys to understand. Each night you may target a player to use this ability on. Your incredible influence allows your stolen abilites to go through anything, meaning they will hit their target unless you are roleblocked. In the place of your normal power, you may use your last combustable lemon to deal 1 kp to someone. this KP goes through Roleblock and bussdriver effects (not medic). You win with the town. So if he got bussed on N1, I don't think he was able to copycat the power since he wasted it on the vig shot. I don't know if the "combustible lemon" means he can never use the copycat thing again....if he could then he would have known ghost DT checked him on N2 since that's an ability done on him, and therefore he would have been able to use a DT ability himself and claim it or let us know. Of course if he received this ability on D2 he hasn't used it yet since he was lynched that same day. If Ghost is scum, JH still town Why is this? Because of the Mattchew vote again? If ghost is BS then we can't know...but it at least means that Hiro and Matt told the truth about their roles...plus considering the IAMP push it means they can't really be RS (also the Chell thing), and that leaves very little suspects for RS, mainly you+Kei+S&B+Jingle. If Kei+S&B are town then that leaves either you or JH. Right now I'm inclined to believe JH is scum over you, because of previous reasons... ...or maybe S&B is scum and we should have listened to Drazerk all game long and lynch him >_> <_< | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Meaning....I'd prefer to leave my final vote before leaving...which can't be done if neither Jingle nor ghost (or at least Mattchew :/ ) show up. Let's make this clear again: today we lynch the remaining Aperture Science member Yes, ghost can be BS but fuck I want to get rid of all RS first. The thing is that it may be more "obvious" that ghost is BS, but it's not obvious who other player is RS. Is it Jingle, Hiro or you (I also take it I'm in that suspect list from some of you)? Or in a weird plot twist maybe it was S&B all along or some shit. Meh. If you guys want to play it safe go ahead and lynch the BS then...but I'll try to keep my vote on the RS before I leave to uni. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Well, it says he won't know what ability he receives. So even if he still had copycat power after vigging snb, he wouldn't know it was a swap/DT check. He'd just know he could use something at random. I don't know that it would have helped his case to say, "Guys, I can use some unknown power on someone tonight...and also I neglected to mention that was part of my role." It would have looked like the 400th fakeclaim from him. Yeah, it's the mattchew vote. I can't say I'm not going to be wrong. I can't say I like JH's roleclaim. But I've got a townread based on that thing, and it's going to be stronger than any scumread I can muster on him, because it's based on him not being so incredibly tricky as scum to make that post. One day I'll be wrong about one of these things and I'll ahve to stop, but until then I'm going to be convinced these reads are right. There's also an outside chance still that mattchew or hiro busses iamperfection. I find that more likely than me being scum, because I'm not. I find it more likely than JH being scum. I...hmmm. I need to think about whether I'd be more easily convinced one of them bussed him (particularly hiro. I've never seen scummatt bus hard, but you guys seem to know that it's a thing with him) or that snb could be scum. I don't think keirathi can be scum with the way he's playing, although if it's true he's got a very townie looking scum game then it's a remote possibility. I don't like that over other options, so would think matt more likely than snb/hiro in some order, more likely than keirathi. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Everybody in this game other than me and Keirathi is scum, I'm sure of it. Maybe not you, since at least you are making an effort right now even though you could still be scum talking out of your ass. But shit everybody else just doesn't care about this game at all, even with all this interesting shit that's going on and we having the possibility to catch all scum right now. Yes, maybe there are 5 scum out there and everybody else was right. GG scum, well played you fucked my mind. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
That, right now, is what my read on you turns upon. I think you've got scummy play earlier. I don't love the momentum explanation, at least to me it doesn't fit the way that votes were sitting in thread, and doesn't explain why you'd unvote JH and then come back to him later, claiming momentum when nothing had happened in the meantime. I don't think your speculating because of your role covers up the fact that you were actively questioning how to kill snb. General fishing, from you, doesn't bother me as much as it would from some, because I know you like to setup speculate like I do. However, that question is NOT something that a townie should be asking to snb, and "how can you die?" has no bearing on what happened to your N1 action. Wanting to know what happened N1 explains some fishing, but not that question itself. (And you're still overly certain about some aspects of the game. All of a sudden Drazerk might be town. This 2 scum 2 scum business) But right now I'm mulling over your claim. I would rather deal with these inconsistent claims now, have more time to think on that and see what you do in the meantime. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
 Meh, fair enough, I won't start arguing against those points because: -I already explained them so it's useless -I had to explain myself way later than when the actual events happened. I don't have a database of all my emotions and thoughts when I make every single post so I may remember things incorrectly or misinterpret them once I try to explain them later (for instance maybe I didn't unvote IAM "just because of the momentum" and there was something else, but if there was I don't remember and me looking back at those posts makes me think it was because of the momentum thing). Also, me thinking Drazerk being town is just me being awesome  (for like 10 minutes though, then I started sucking again ) | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I read your reasoning austin, but I just don't find it sufficient. He kept talking about gonzaw and Matt for hours and hours, then he made a case that I mostly agreed with (because I thought iamperfection was town), although I didn't think it was enough to vote Matt, just keep an eye on him. After iamp flipped scum, no one ever even really looked at jingle again. 1) Has absolutely no opinion on iamp day 1 2) Builds cases on gonzaw and Matt, while making excuses about not being "pushy super agressive" to explain away why is wasn't pushing them so hard. 3) Has literally done nothing substantial besides tunnel gonzaw all game 4) Really "safe" claim 5) Claims hider, while S&B's role is Reverse Hider. Roleblocker flips day1, and my role is Roleblocker Roleblocker. Too much coincidence. I can't really get behind any of those other cases. Its all based too much on things that we don't know who is lying about (and we know we have at *LEAST* 2 people who aren't being completely honest with their information). And I still trust S&B because I literally have no reason to distrust my Role PM. ##unvote ##Vote: JingleHell | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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