EPTso let me reformulate my question so we can understand each other better this time
What is your read about me so far ?
[/list]
[*]town
[*]null
[*]scum
[/list]
You can use quantitative adjectives
Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII - Page 19
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
so let me reformulate my question so we can understand each other better this time What is your read about me so far ? [/list] [*]town [*]null [*]scum [/list] You can use quantitative adjectives | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On September 29 2012 15:21 debears wrote: @djo What parts of his case specifically do you believe? His main case against me is contradiction. Look at my case against thrawn in the last game. What was the main point of that argument? Inconsistency. Its an easy point for scum to point out. There are two possibilities for kushvin my eyes 1) a mafiab tryingbto pity his way out off a lynch 2) a townie acting likeva total noob with accusations against him. Which has less assumptions? Number 1. My problen with the scum by associstion is the case that i was defendung kush earky on. That us false i was trying ti communicate ti darth that his reasoning wad based off such a strong s assumption early in the game. In fact, I'd say that z-bosons case against me is the same. He looks at the mafia side only, which to me is a indicator of mafia. I can't make a case dur to drinking and being on my phone. My read in you is that you are sheeping onto cases. I don't like it because i did the same. Why do you think i would refer you to a coach? What are the townie and mafia motivations behind it. @z-boson The same question stated the line above refers to you Why are you so desperate to distance yourself from a Kush red flip? Regardless of the answer, we can deal with any association cases between yourself and Kush after the flip. The fact is though. That is the weakest part of the case against you. So of course the only part that you really defend. You are essentially saying Z - Boson has confirmation Bias. This is not the case. His case against you stands on it's own merits. Your defense consists of trying to discredit it's author. That does not stop the facts being what they are. Z - Boson only brought them to light. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On September 29 2012 16:26 Djodref wrote: [/list][/list]@debears so let me reformulate my question so we can understand each other better this time What is your read about me so far ? [*]town [*]null [*]scum You can use quantitative adjectives What is the point of this question? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
well, it's because of the two following posts of debears towards me + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 13:24 debears wrote: @darthpunk You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation. Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG". Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. Anyhow. I see two others who have suspiciously posted. @Boson + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker. @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. @kush What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss  Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. this one makes me a suspicious poster + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great And this one makes me a newbie town That's why I want him to clarify his opinions of me | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On September 29 2012 15:21 debears wrote: @djo What parts of his case specifically do you believe? His main case against me is contradiction. Look at my case against thrawn in the last game. What was the main point of that argument? Inconsistency. Its an easy point for scum to point out. There are two possibilities for kushvin my eyes 1) a mafiab tryingbto pity his way out off a lynch 2) a townie acting likeva total noob with accusations against him. Which has less assumptions? Number 1. My problen with the scum by associstion is the case that i was defendung kush earky on. That us false i was trying ti communicate ti darth that his reasoning wad based off such a strong s assumption early in the game. In fact, I'd say that z-bosons case against me is the same. He looks at the mafia side only, which to me is a indicator of mafia. I can't make a case dur to drinking and being on my phone. My read in you is that you are sheeping onto cases. I don't like it because i did the same. Why do you think i would refer you to a coach? What are the townie and mafia motivations behind it. @z-boson The same question stated the line above refers to you Also can you explain what you mean exactly by saying Z-BosoN "looks at the mafia side only" ? I honestly didn't understand the bolded part of your post. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On September 29 2012 17:04 Djodref wrote: @debears Also can you explain what you mean exactly by saying Z-BosoN "looks at the mafia side only" ? I honestly didn't understand the bolded part of your post. He is talking about confirmation bias. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On September 29 2012 14:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Just now caught up and saw this post. Really? I Said I'd be back about 12 hours before lynch, I've been reading the thread for an hour which makes that statement pretty much exactly right. But your own comment on the other hand is from before I even said I'd be waking up and checking the thread. You are not making yourself look any better than when I first called you out for grasping at straws.Alsn has gone awfully quiet... Will be posting some pretty substantial posts(I suspect, based on what I've read so far) within the next couple of hours. | ||
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corrosion
Norway29 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 10:59 DarthPunk wrote: Addressing a few things that stood out to me. So yeah I went back through the thread to address this specifically. I was asked to post my previous mafia games. and then I did. And now that is some sort of attempt for me to use my meta to clear myself? Right. ... You're absolutely right. I see that you posted links to your previous games only a few minutes after Debears requested it. I missed this because I was just looking through your filter and didn't keep enough attention on the thread itself. My bad. I'm going to look at Stutter's case against Kush and other recent developments. For now, I'll vote as I implied in my last post. ##Vote Kushm4sta | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Looking at the vote count, the last official count says 7, and now corrosion added his vote for a total of 8. With myself that would be 9, the exact number of town in this game. From my point of view, unless kushm4sta, Djodref and Lesrah are the 3 scum, there are scum pushing this lynch. Given that, I'm really starting to dislike this lynch. I agree however that kush has been mostly concerned with defending himself against perceived injustice rather than actually trying to hunt scum, this still does not convince me that he is scum. Lynching scum with an overwhelming majority D1 just seems like way too improbably. Sure, if we had to fight tooth and nail to get 7 votes, I might buy it, but that's not the case. It seems to me there must be scum sheeping onto this lynch. Like I've stated before I can go along with the kush lynch, but I'd rather try and lynch my top scum read at this point and with the current developments, I see a kush lynch more as a last resort than my main scum read. Unfortunately, this argument is only available to people who have yet to vote and are town, as well as to scum since other than myself only scum are aware of my alignment. For everyone else, the "unless a, b and c are scum" argument will include me. My argument is at least enough to convince myself, so I'll be scouring the thread for the next couple of hours to see if my "gut scum reads" so far have any merit and if so push that/those case(s) instead. If it turns out that they are going nowhere, I will vote kush. But I still feel we have enough time to at least have a discussion on the topic of "just wtf is going on here?!". | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I also voted for Kush for your information | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On September 29 2012 18:21 Djodref wrote: Right, I missed that, thanks for pointing it out. @Alsn I also voted for Kush for your information That just confirms it though, from my point of view there are scum pushing for his lynch. For everyone else out there, unless me, Lesrah and kush are the scumteam, there are scum among the voters. | ||
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corrosion
Norway29 Posts
corrosion, some issues with your post. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, 1)and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. 2)In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. 3)Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. 4)His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. Adressing your issues: + Show Spoiler + 1) Huh?? So you are saying that we shouldn't lynch him because if he's actually scum, we will easily find out later? This is the lamest reason to not lynch someone. If someone looks scummier than the rest, lynch them, don't save them for later. If this was not what you meant, please explain. No. If you read the part just before the bolded part, you should realize that these were my thoughts before anyone had posted much in the thread. I just stated that at that point in time I didn't think Kush was the obvious person to pressure. I did not imply that we shouldn't lynch Kush D1 if he's our biggest scumread. 2) That's meaningless. His post came right after someone said HI!!!! and left, for the second or third time in the thread. This is more of a nudge towards them, and I'm sure it was read amongst the fighting. I actually checked the post you said he was replying to, and I can't see that it's possible to say if the person was going to leave or not. Maybe you're right that it was meant a nudge, though. 3) You are just rambling here, I think. I take the DP/kush exchange as being genuine, unless they are both scum and agreed to flaming each other. I don't think thta's likely, due to kush's fiery meta. The first paragraph was a mistake by me, explained in my previous post. The intention of the second paragraph, was to try to get some feedback from other posters. Right now, I don't think the case is strong at all so I actually think people should focus more on their own reads and trying to find the best lynching candidate. 4) I don't get the reasoning behind this post. You are trying to make a case on DP, and concluded that you don't feel like it and actually think that kush is a better lynch? Also, stutters has made a case on him. Why not reference that? I wasn't as much trying to make a case as just referencing my findings. I was trying the approach of focusing on one player (suggested in one of the guides). I figured that someone else was going to post a case on Kush, so I tried to focus on a player that noone else was pressuring much. I'll admit that my attempt seems to have failed quite a bit. The reason that I didn't reference Stutters, was that he made his case 7 minutes before I posted. I did not check the thread for new posts before I posted. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On September 29 2012 11:22 DarthPunk wrote:No. This is wrong. I did not FoS people for not agreeing with me. Firstly. Both of those players had also FoS'd you. Secondly there are people who have not agreed with me who I have not looked at. I FoS'd debears for soft defending you after he FoS'd you. I Was suspicious of Alsn for completely twisting/ stretching the truth and at times straight out lying in order to Facilitate his reads. His reads form his arguments rather than his arguments forming his reads. Really? You're still acting like my arguments were some massive conspiracy? Using the words "truth" and "lying" in the context of D1 mafia is quite ridiculous. What do you know about the truth anyway? Or what do you know about me lying or not? Where did I lie? What's this "truth" that you claim to know? Townspeople do not have any information, as such we are forced to try and interpret people's motivations and intentions. We can't base our arguments on true information until we actually get some(flips, blue confirms, etc.). I'm keeping my eye on you, but for now I'll let it slide as poor wording since you have been showing pretty pro-town behaviour with regards to the rest of the game. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On September 29 2012 18:47 Alsn wrote: I also want to quickly address the following quote from DarthPunk: Really? You're still acting like my arguments were some massive conspiracy? Using the words "truth" and "lying" in the context of D1 mafia is quite ridiculous. What do you know about the truth anyway? Or what do you know about me lying or not? Where did I lie? What's this "truth" that you claim to know? Townspeople do not have any information, as such we are forced to try and interpret people's motivations and intentions. We can't base our arguments on true information until we actually get some(flips, blue confirms, etc.). I'm keeping my eye on you, but for now I'll let it slide as poor wording since you have been showing pretty pro-town behaviour with regards to the rest of the game. No. It is not ridiculous to talk about truth or lying. You misrepresented or straight up lied about events in the thread which are verifiable . It was posted in the thread where you lied. The truth is that Z- Boson never pushed Kush. and you said that he did. This was explained to you. I would think you were just not reading the thread but I find that doubtful. Towns people have a ton of info already. Stop presenting your subjective arguments and assumptions as more than what they are: useless. Honestly. For all you complain and talk about not focusing on Kush and looking for other scum reads, and despite promising to do so. All you have done is defend someone defending Kush. Soft defend Kush. And post a terrible case on Z -Boson that made yourself look scummier than it made him look. On top of all this your recent argument on voting numbers is WIFOM. Stop complaining about other people scum hunting and do some yourself. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On September 29 2012 19:19 DarthPunk wrote:It was posted in the thread where you lied. 1) The truth is that Z- Boson never pushed Kush. and you said that he did. This was explained to you. I would think you were just not reading the thread but I find that doubtful. Towns people have a ton of info already. Stop presenting your subjective arguments and assumptions as more than what they are: useless. Honestly. For all you complain and talk about not focusing on Kush and looking for other scum reads, and despite promising to do so. All you have done is defend someone defending Kush. Soft defend Kush. And post a terrible case on Z -Boson that made yourself look scummier than it made him look. On top of all this your recent argument on voting numbers is WIFOM. 2)Stop complaining about other people scum hunting and do some yourself. 1) I went back through his filter and checked, I didn't realise he never pushed kush. That being said, that was never part of my case against him anyway. The only time I even mention that is when I'm trying to show why a hypothetical scenario of everyone tunnelling kush is bad. But I'll admit that I was wrong about him attacking kush. If that's the only "lie" you think I committed then I consider this matter closed. There needs to actually be intent when lying, speaking an untruth is only a lie if you know that it's an untruth. 2) I am, I just haven't posted my findings yet because I'm not sure enough about anything so chill the fuck out. At least look at some time stamps before you go all aggro. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Given that I have more information than all the townies that have voted so far(I know my own alignment), I can of course conclude that there must be scum that voted for kush, regardless if kush is scum or not. So could Lesrah if he turns out to be town(but as things are looking now, he will probably be replaced/modkilled so he wouldn't participate in this lynch regardless). Do you even know what WIFOM is? I did not arbitrarily keep arguing back and forth, I made a logical conclusion from the information available. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm going out tonight again so I'll see you all after kush flips red ^^ I might check the thread drunken and all when I come back but it should be after the deadline so don't expect me to change my vote anymore. See ya ! | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On September 29 2012 19:41 Alsn wrote: 1) I went back through his filter and checked, I didn't realise he never pushed kush. That being said, that was never part of my case against him anyway. The only time I even mention that is when I'm trying to show why a hypothetical scenario of everyone tunnelling kush is bad. But I'll admit that I was wrong about him attacking kush. If that's the only "lie" you think I committed then I consider this matter closed. There needs to actually be intent when lying, speaking an untruth is only a lie if you know that it's an untruth. 2) I am, I just haven't posted my findings yet because I'm not sure enough about anything so chill the fuck out. At least look at some time stamps before you go all aggro. You are the only one getting riled up here. You are far too defensive towards some light pushing. All you do is argue semantics. Like every time I get into these anti town discussions with you take little unimportant things and turn them into walls of text that don't even matter. So you say you said something that you had no idea was true or not? and presented it as a fact. That is a lie regardless if you come back later and state it was a 'mistake'. It is not up to us to go back through the thread and check everything you say out because you keep making 'mistakes'. So either you are not reading the thread properly before posting your diatribe or you are misrepresenting and stretching things to make a case. or both. Seriously. If you are town shape up your posting please. On September 29 2012 19:48 Alsn wrote: EBWOP: And just to point it out I can't for the life of me find where exactly it was explained to me that I said something that wasn't true. So unless you can quote me where exactly someone pointed out that I lied about BosoN attacking kush, by your own definition, you are lying too. It is there. Read the thread. On September 29 2012 20:02 Alsn wrote: EBWOP again: Just realized it, WIFOM what? How the hell is my analysis of the vote numbers WIFOM. It's logical that from the point of view of a townie that has voted, the only way kush is scum, is if me and Lesrah are scum too. It's simple math. Given that I have more information than all the townies that have voted so far(I know my own alignment), I can of course conclude that there must be scum that voted for kush, regardless if kush is scum or not. So could Lesrah if he turns out to be town(but as things are looking now, he will probably be replaced/modkilled so he wouldn't participate in this lynch regardless). Do you even know what WIFOM is? I did not arbitrarily keep arguing back and forth, I made a logical conclusion from the information available. Yes I know what WIFOM means. YOu obviously just fail to understand how it applies. But I forgive you. It is WIFOM because scum could say if we all vote kush then it will look like he is town. Because why would scum ever bus their team mate day one? It also assumes that a.) You are town and B.) that scum are not bussing. Those are both stupid assumptions for anyone here to make. But more importantly why are you so invested in saving kush? in arguing semantics and crapping up the thread with everything but scum hunting? I already have a FoS on you. and it stands also. I am tempted to think your posting style is just your personality. But arguing over every slight detail, not reading the thread properly. Misrepresenting things and speaking 'untruths' are all anti-town. | ||
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