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Here is my last statement about Kush...
On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:@corrosionI'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time  . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on...
I did accept his explanation at the time but I cannot let him off the hook for the posts where he said he didn't care about this game anymore. Also I really don't like the posts where he implies that debears is his scum partner.
I don't see any pro-town motivation for such posts.
That's why he's getting my vote now.
##Vote: kushm4sta
Also a side note for the guys having trouble with my pseudo, you can call me Djo if you want 
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On September 29 2012 11:03 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 10:36 debears wrote:
@kush
The ambiguous statement i made qbout you in the start of my vote post was addressed to your feeling of hoplessness despite your early enthusiasm
@k boson
You're association case is assuming way too much. Use ockhams razor. We can't assume modwarnings. That is ridiculous. Especially when using that reason to cherrypick his posts to create an association case That only adds to the fact that I already have a strong scumread of you. Whatever his alignment, I'm pushing for you next.
How does that statement add to your scumread? Do you mind adding reasoning?
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And @kush
I am aware of the situation. I hope we can remain friends after my comments earlier. . However, i do have 2 suspects at this point. Fortunately, i have my sam adams to wash away any doubt i have going into the next couple days.
At this point, i see you condemned with no alternative. Please though next game follow through on your pre game enthusiam. You are better than this
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Hey, guys !
I would like to bring up something that struck me in the post of corrosion about Darth. I didn't like this post in general because it didn't match my interpretations of the early events between Kush and Darth but I understand that our views can differ.
But looking back at corrosion filter, he's trying to find scummy motivation for Darth to give his links to his previous game. Check the bolded part in the spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote:I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:
So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch.
But Darth was just answering a request from debears !
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 11:39 debears wrote:
As I said, I want a quick look at you first. Second, there isn't much more to add to what you said about it. It does give off the impression of extra information.
I think corrosion was trying to cast scummy shadow on Darth to shift the focus on Kush. I did so by omitting/deforming some parts of the thread history. Also, he fits my definition of a semi-lurker trying to blend in.
So, corrosion, until I got your explanations about this point, I got my eyes on you.
##FoS: corrosion
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On September 29 2012 13:12 debears wrote:
And @kush
I am aware of the situation. I hope we can remain friends after my comments earlier. . However, i do have 2 suspects at this point. Fortunately, i have my sam adams to wash away any doubt i have going into the next couple days.
At this point, i see you condemned with no alternative. Please though next game follow through on your pre game enthusiam. You are better than this
If you have 2 suspects. Do you want to, you know, share that info with the thread?
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On September 29 2012 13:17 Djodref wrote:Hey, guys ! I would like to bring up something that struck me in the post of corrosion about Darth. I didn't like this post in general because it didn't match my interpretations of the early events between Kush and Darth but I understand that our views can differ. But looking back at corrosion filter, he's trying to find scummy motivation for Darth to give his links to his previous game. Check the bolded part in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote:I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:
So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. But Darth was just answering a request from debears ! + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 11:39 debears wrote:
As I said, I want a quick look at you first. Second, there isn't much more to add to what you said about it. It does give off the impression of extra information. I think corrosion was trying to cast scummy shadow on Darth to shift the focus on Kush. I did so by omitting/deforming some parts of the thread history. Also, he fits my definition of a semi-lurker trying to blend in. So, corrosion, until I got your explanations about this point, I got my eyes on you. ##FoS: corrosion
Nice pick up. I already posted about this, But I assume you just picked it up as you were going through the thread. I was surprised no one else seemed to catch on to this.
I would like some further elaboration on your kush vote as you have black flipped somewhat from your earlier position.
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Is there any replacement on-going for Lesrah ?
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Also we have a hardcore lurker. I didn't even know this person was in the game until I went to page 1 to access the filter list.
LESRAH.
I am calling you out to participate.
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@darthpunk
Currently, you should know one of my suspects based on a heated discussion btw him and me. The other i am waiting for a few more posts to give him a fair opportunity. The second one is a wildcard. Tomorrow i will build a casebfor him when I'm at my computer and in a better ba situation to make a suitable case
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@DarthPunk
Considering my backflip on Kush, the general feeling I got from his latest posts is that he is not going to help the town in any way. At least we should get rid of him for a better town atmosphere. But I also think he is scum after all
At first I accepted his slip because his meta is to be careless as town. Also he did provide some explanation for it (it was light but could have been genuine). After this, two things changed my mind.
Firstly SDM convinced me this was a real scumslip with this post
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 05:05 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Making a Kush case at this point is kind of like trying to kick in an open door. Like Alsn I was thinking even before the game started how to handle Kush. People say he has a scummy meta and I guess that's true to an extent, but there are certainly some significant differences. Some of those things were pointed out by Hapa in the XXVII aftermath, advice Kush seemed to just shrug off (eh, he kind of went OMGUS on Hapa). Hapa points out the difference in how Kush defends himself when he's town, here's his defense against drazak's case in XXVI (as town): + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 13:25 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote:On September 04 2012 03:01 kushm4sta wrote:
Why town should all vote for cuba
Worst case scenario:he flips green
No big deal, we lynched the worst townie (barring WeeTee whose behavior fits his meta like a glove, and kville who is being replaced). From his posts it's clear he has no intention of contributing more than he is already, which is nothing. Plus that would give thrawn some serious town points in my book, since he refuses to vote for him. Thrawn is good for town atmosphere and very active. It would be quite useful to our scumhunt if we could trust thrawn.
Best case scenario: he is mafia
If Cuba is mafia, I think there is a very high chance that thrawn is also mafia. In which case we will know 2 mafia first day and basically win the game.
People who are specifically against lynching cuba: cuba, thrawn.
People who have voted for or accused drazak: cuba, thrawn.
Twice now thrawn has attempted to redirect the lynch vote away from cuba onto somebody else.
Thrawn says he won't vote for cuba because unlike stutters, cuba has participated in the scumhunt. By scumhunt you mean his failed attempt to bandwagon drazak with you?
We need three more votes on cuba. I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta I pushed the cubu vote because 1)he was a bad poster/lurker and it worked as a policy lynch if nothing else 2)how he turned revealed a lot about thrawn, who i assumed medic or jb would save because he was the obvious choice in my mind I thought it was very fishy that thrawn tried to redirect twice, and so I got very excited with the prospect of identifying two mafia in the first day. Also at the time I thought, as did thrawn, that kville was going to be replaced. So that's why I called him the worst townie. Now it's clear that honor belongs to kville. Also jacob I don't get how this is a good argument? It's reasoning is only one sentence: Show nested quote +Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. I think he means that then thrawn would be mafia, but right now that sentence, which is his ONLY argumentation, makes no sense. I didn't think anyone else seemed more scumlike than he did. Although I did know that was a big chance of him not being scum. See, drazzy darling, when there are a ton of lurkers/terrible townies in the game like yourself, it makes it pretty fucking hard to win as town. And my last defense of myself is to invoke the holy name of the late thrawn, who, on the night of his untimely death, proclaimed me as his biggest town read. Read his defense of me because I'm sure it's better than anything I could do. REST IN PEACE THRAWN TT Not to OMGUS, but this actually makes drazak seem quite suspicious to me. Mostly because I am the most active poster now that thrawn is gone. Maybe I'm biased about the matter but what do other people think? I will look through his filter more tomorrow. Kush tends to OMGUS whether scum or town, but the way in which he OMGUS differs. When scum he's confident and aggressive, when town he's more diplomatic and logical. In this game, the former certainly holds true. Other than that, town Kush seems to focus scum hunting (check his early XXVI filter) while scum Kush is focusing on defending himself and posting tons of fluff (he even mentioned in the XXVII Mafia QT that his strategy was to post a shit ton). In this game his scum hunting is pretty much non-existent while he's been defending himself and posting fluff just like in XXVII. The most significant piece of information in this game though is his scum slip and his explanation. The slip is significant. I have a really hard time believing that the mother of all OMGUSing would be calling his attacker townie. Unless, of course, he's in possession of extra information and it's a slip. His defense isn't very convincing. Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote:
2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use.
Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro.
Of course he's been using "people" and "person" a lot in past games, but this post from XXVII is a good example on how he views his attackers: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 20:27 kushm4sta wrote:
what I said about flame wars.. that is what I did in the last two previous games. for instance drazak accused me really hard and I basically just called him a bad player again and again. I am trying to avoid that this game though.
I really hate waking up to people fosing me...feels bad It's also worth pointing out that drazak attacking him made Kush suspicious of drazak (post quoted above), he did the complete opposite of making a town read on him.
Secondly the two calls from kush to debears are disturbing me
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote:
debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe
I know he was being sarcastic and referring to a previous game but this is absolutely anti-town in my eyes. It's just confusing me and giving me a WIFOM headache and I don't need it with all the bad whiskey I drunk yesterday. He did apologize for his behavior later on but he's doing it again here.
+ Show Spoiler +
[QUOTE]On September 29 2012 12:14 kushm4sta wrote:
debears hf you are dying next.
So I'm calling a kush/debears/corrosion scumteam rightnow. But honestly it would be lame if it was the case...
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I would like to clarify my call on the scumteam
In my mind, debears is scum by association with kush. If by any chance kush turns out to be town, I'm back to a null read on him.
Regarding corrosion, there is also association with kush but I also have an independent scumread on him.
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Why am i scum by association? Someone want to provide a clesr case so i csn refutre it?
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They are probably just echoing the suspicion I posted earlier, concerning my assumption on mods.
It's a theory I have in case he pops scum. Don't treat it as an argument. Treat my case as an argument.
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Alsn has gone awfully quiet...
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@debears
I second Z-BosoN post.
At first, I was having a town read on you after you called both of us for our post quality
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 13:53 Djodref wrote:@debearsFirst of all, my name is Djodref and not DjorefLet me know answer your points against me Show nested quote +@Djoref+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote:
@Darthpunk
Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me.
Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch.
It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid.
Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help.
I have never seen a scum lynched D1 in all the games I checked on the TL Mafia forums except for the TL Mafia LVII. And there was a stupid obvious fakeclaim in this game. I'll try my best to nail a scum but I'm not confident in my reads.
But I'm not going to use this as an excuse to be indecisive. I'm just stating that I have no problem to put my vote on a suspicious or inactive lurker. Suspicious as semi-lurker just blending in would be better.
On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote:
@Darthpunk
Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ?
Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia...
After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote:Hello everybody ! About meThis is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policyFrom the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day.
So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in.Day PlanI don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote:@Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. I'm not buying the case against Kush yetOn September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote:
Because the most active townie is tunneling me?
I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. I know that the quality of my post is not stellar but please remind that it's my first game on a forum ever. I'll try to improve and make a personal case but I didn't find any material yet. Also I liked your case against me so thank you for pointing what was wrong in my posts. I'm starting to have a town read on you.
But if kush flips red and in the light of this case from Z-BosoN on you
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote:All right, I went through debears filter now, and I'm confident he is scum. Let's go through this more carefully now. His first post: Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 11:05 debears wrote:Lol. Kush already going at it. Hey guys. I'm debears. This is my second game ever of mafia. I have a couple of things to add: + Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 09:18 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote:
It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Meh. Don't like lurker policy lynches at all. It just tells scum: Post. and your safe. I have read every post so far as scummy and I don't see SDM's post as more or less scummy than the others. But posting a lot will let people get a good read on you so you should 100% be doing this as town. And then if all the townies are posting you force scum to. Which makes it much easier to nab them also. SO. Post a lot if you are town. You make scum uncomfortable and facilitate town reads on yourself and scum reads on scum. You also clutter the thread if you just post alot. Let me specify. Post quality as often as you can. That means reread the thread and build good cases. One liners don't do much good. Cases with multiple quotes and a few sentences of explanation per quote are good (most of the time). Also, USE YOUR COACHES TOWN. Thrawn pmed Hapa over 50 times last game and he had the best town performance. That isn't a coincidence. @Kush I don't like the way you are starting off this game kush. It's eerily similar as last game when you were mafia. You mention you're deathless streak, nk, and your scummy meta without anyone bringing it up. You should know that I most likely know you're trends better than anyone else in this game. The only difference between this game and last is that you have engaged in a flame war with Darth this game, which is unhelpful to our town. FOS Kush@everyone One more thing: Feel free to accuse and build cases on anyone you want for the first 24 hours. However, let's start tunneling for the second 24 hours. Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate. First of all, his "I want town to win!!" post telling town to use their coaches. He then FoS's Kush, due to the fact that he's playing a similar game as the one he was scum. He says that DP + kush flame war is bad for the town, but doesn't attack Darthpunk, probably because he finds kush to be more scummy looking. Now, from a townie perspective, what does debear want? Information in order to lynch kush, as he pointed a FOS mostly based on a meta read. But suddenly, towards darthpunk: Show nested quote +snip --You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation.
Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG".
Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. He is defensive towards kush. That's not how townies think. While I agree that DP is a bit overboard on kush, I don't agree that he failed to give arguments as to why he thinks that is so. A townie with a FOS on someone will want to deal with the arguments first. He doesn't do that, and suddenly becomes defensive on Kush. He says, later: Show nested quote +I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum. He is more bothered by DPs certainty than by his actual arguments. Inconsistency #1. He then comes up with two cases. One against me, and one against Djoref: Show nested quote +@Boson
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote:
It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote:On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
@DP
Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another.
What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker.
@Stutters
I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here.
@kush
What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote:
@Darthpunk
Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me.
Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch.
It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid.
Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote:
@Darthpunk
Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ?
Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia...
After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote:Hello everybody ! About meThis is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policyFrom the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day.
So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in.Day PlanI don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote:@Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote:
Because the most active townie is tunneling me?
I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. Notice the similarity between the two. He attacks us for asking questions (later on denies that they provide any discussion whatsoever), and falls into the same "semi-active lurker" category he's sniffing about. I will ignore the quality of his arguments, which I personally think are horrible, and will look more towards their similarity. From his case against me:Show nested quote +A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. Show nested quote +For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. From his case against Djoref:Show nested quote +A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. Show nested quote +Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. See the similarity, especially the bolded part? It seems that he has this "semi-active scum" cake recipe that he is using to sniff out scum. He also calls us out on our posting quality, in my case saying it is bad. I won't address his next post towards me because I've already done so, and because it doesn't increase his scumminess , as "bad cases =/= scum" (although it pisses me off). Anyways, now to the main stuff. He has a case against me and Djoref, for pretty much the same reasoning. Yet, check out what his next post on Djoref is: Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote:@Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote:
@DarthPunk
For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great Wtf??? What ?? Where is his case against Djoref?? He goes from a scummy-looking sheep with one liners to a "townie who should pm marv for help"? Could he have forgotten that Djoref was one of his main suspicions? Inconsistency #2
Note that I no longer think that his defense of SDM is scummy. I've gone over that a few times and I admit that it can also come from a townie perspective. To summarize, here are the main inconsistencies in his play that scream to me SCUM: 1) He had a FOS on kush, then hurried on to defend him, in the manner I've shown above. I cannot fathom for the life of me having a FOS on someone and suddenly feel like I have to address an exaggeration on that person before I actually address the case. 2) He completely absolves Djoref for absolutely no reason. Townies do not throw around suspicions only to insta-drop them. 3) The other supporting arguments I've shown above.debears is SCUM!##vote debears
I must say it would be very likely for you to be scum. Also kush could have been gamethrowing by mentioning you twice.
Hence the "scum by association"
By the way, what is your read on me now ?
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@Remedy
I would like you to be more active on the thread.
What are your scum read in the exception of kush ?
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@djo
What parts of his case specifically do you believe?
His main case against me is contradiction. Look at my case against thrawn in the last game. What was the main point of that argument? Inconsistency. Its an easy point for scum to point out.
There are two possibilities for kushvin my eyes
1) a mafiab tryingbto pity his way out off a lynch
2) a townie acting likeva total noob with accusations against him.
Which has less assumptions? Number 1.
My problen with the scum by associstion is the case that i was defendung kush earky on. That us false i was trying ti communicate ti darth that his reasoning wad based off such a strong s assumption early in the game. In fact, I'd say that z-bosons case against me is the same. He looks at the mafia side only, which to me is a indicator of mafia. I can't make a case dur to drinking and being on my phone.
My read in you is that you are sheeping onto cases. I don't like it because i did the same.
Why do you think i would refer you to a coach? What are the townie and mafia motivations behind it.
@z-boson
The same question stated the line above refers to you
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Ugh. Pphone autocorect is screwing me. Fill in the blanks if u you must
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@debears
Well, I believed that you were soft defending him but at a second read it looks like you just didn't want Darth to go overboard with his accusations. But you should admit it's not consistent with your earlier FoS on Kush. People would expect you to join Darth to pressure kush even more. Don't you think so ?
Also I don't understand you stances on my alignment. After your first case on me, I thought you were suspicious of me.
Later on, you recommend me to pm marv for help. You certainly know that marv is the town coach. So did you just let go your suspicions and consider me as town newbie ?
Your town motivation would be to help a fellow citizen but in this case why do you think I'm town ?
Your mafia motivation would be budding me and show pro-town behavior (unfortunately while slipping).
And I would like you to answer my questions clearly in the future and not throwing me a question back.
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EPT
