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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:37 marvellosity wrote: That would be the most compelling evidence, I think. Even in GSL he voted a 'null' read on Day 1 because everyone else seemed town. On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295 He doesn't really tunnel 1 scumread. Gives a townie, null, and slightly scummy read all in one post. There are several posts like that throughout his filter - he rarely takes a hardline "tunnel-y" opinion on someone in that game. Or his first post in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#128 He establishes Risen as town when the whole town wants to lynch him. The most recent scumgame I found in his filter was Normal Mini II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=235418 He does play a fairly different meta than this game (few very long posts, etc), but I think he's displaying a similar mentality. He's very critical of people's play in his scumgame (as he was with prplzh). He's much more sure of his reads, similar to this game. This could be a trip down meta-confirmationbais lane and I'll have to look more into it, but the mentality IMO is striking. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:45 marvellosity wrote: On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do. Any examples? After looking at his meta a bit, I'd expect townie bluelightz to give a town read on Mementoss at some point in the game. Really I find it odd that he tunneled prplzh without giving opinions on any of the other lynch candidates. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:51 Hapahauli wrote: Any examples? After looking at his meta a bit, I'd expect townie bluelightz to give a town read on Mementoss at some point in the game. Really I find it odd that he tunneled prplzh without giving opinions on any of the other lynch candidates. I don't find that odd in the slightest, to be honest. In NMM3 he called Obvious scum, Obvious made some response, Bluelightz backed down immediately. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
1st post: On August 22 2012 10:53 Bluelightz wrote: Hello, Bluelightz is here  .I have suspicions on Obvious which I will outline in my next post. 2nd post: On August 22 2012 10:59 Bluelightz wrote: Nevermind my Obvious suspicions, his response is towny. His response is towny because of this (that he has time, he's spending time to discuss stuff with town). He then posts 1 or two more things on Obvious then gets caught up in defending himself, jumping around votes and suspicions. He finally votes obvious on the lastminute bandwagon, but follows it up with this: On August 24 2012 10:41 Bluelightz wrote: I'd love jumping to chez, but imma make a quick case first on him. Just a remarkably different mentality - much less sure of himself, and much more open with his reads. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I remember in NMM2 he was forcing his reads so hard. Like it was obvious that he was going after someone just to look like he was doing something. The way to catch him is when he slips (he slipped hard that game in the VE-slOosh lynch). Connections work too. But I haven't see anything from him this game that's really alignment-indicative. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Eh? I just read that and that's not what happened at all: Referring to... I don't find that odd in the slightest, to be honest. In NMM3 he called Obvious scum, Obvious made some response, Bluelightz backed down immediately. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:59 HiroPro wrote: Bluelightz's play is not similar to NMM2, lol. I cohosted that game. I haven't payed much attention to his town games (other than WOF, which is an aberration for him), so I dunno about that part. I remember in NMM2 he was forcing his reads so hard. Like it was obvious that he was going after someone just to look like he was doing something. The way to catch him is when he slips (he slipped hard that game in the VE-slOosh lynch). Connections work too. But I haven't see anything from him this game that's really alignment-indicative. This is what his case on prplzh reads like to me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:59 Hapahauli wrote: Eh? I just read that and that's not what happened at all: 1st post: 2nd post: He then posts 1 or two more things on Obvious then gets caught up in defending himself, jumping around votes and suspicions. He finally votes obvious on the lastminute bandwagon, but follows it up with this: Just a remarkably different mentality - much less sure of himself, and much more open with his reads. right, there are significant differences, i meant the way he was suspicious and backed down from it | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On September 21 2012 02:00 Hapahauli wrote: This is what his case on prplzh reads like to me. Hm, this is kind of true. I was looking more at his thing on Mementoss. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Overall, I just really want to hear more from him. Town really let him get away with sitting back and taking obvious stances this game. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die. I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. Hapahauli is confirmed town with no action so he should absolutely be protected tonight. However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us. it's very unfortunate prplhz messed up the claim but once he did it I suppose there wasn't anything to do but lynch him. We could've ended up with 2 confirmed townies. I was pretty sure they were both town, especially hapa, but really prplhz too. The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum. mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be. His addition of mkfuba07 into the mix and the connections between marv and mkfuba is a very valuable addition to the thread, something I would not expect anyone that's scum to pick up on. It proves he's reading the thread with a lot of attention. Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote: Mementoss is almost certainly town. If I do end up dead tonight you really, really need to take a critical look at the fact that prplhz and I agreed on reads. It's really fucking frustrating that you paint someone scum, then town proceeds to ignore you once you get shot. Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die. I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. Hapahauli is confirmed town with no action so he should absolutely be protected tonight. However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us. it's very unfortunate prplhz messed up the claim but once he did it I suppose there wasn't anything to do but lynch him. We could've ended up with 2 confirmed townies. I was pretty sure they were both town, especially hapa, but really prplhz too. The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum. mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be. His addition of mkfuba07 into the mix and the connections between marv and mkfuba is a very valuable addition to the thread, something I would not expect anyone that's scum to pick up on. It proves he's reading the thread with a lot of attention. Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest. The thing is, I positively invite people to read me for my content, especially by this stage of the game. Except the funny thing is, you haven't addressed any of it since you made your original case on me. Further, you're still calling Hiro a scumread despite never having given reasons for doing so. You always think people use meta the wrong way. You get lynched as scum every time you are scum on meta, and it's invariably correct. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 18 2012 23:05 Palmar wrote: ok I've caught up. Will read more attentively later, some of you guys textwall like bosses. Here's my current idea of the thread. I will deny! iamperfection Hapahauli blazinghand Palmar Junglers Zephirdd Mementoss bluelightz prplhz Ange777 mkfuba07 5 carries on your team Marvellosity HiroPro austinmcc On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote: If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum. ah, shit. Absolutely no reason given whatsoever at any point. Bugger. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Any fucking reason at all. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:45 marvellosity wrote: On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do. I have not played with bluelightz, nor read his past games. But I will note that he posted a case on mementoss and voted, then asked a question about mementoss pointing fingers at hapa. Mementoss answered bluelightz question; bluelightz voted prplhz. Does he normally back down when someone responds at all or when they respond to his case? I'm still struggling with how mementoss never addresses the actual case at all, just says it's a collections of things with "SCUM!" attached, and bluelightz nonetheless removes his vote because mementoss answers a question that was asked after the case. For reference - + Show Spoiler + On September 20 2012 04:50 austinmcc wrote: Just for later reference, the Bluelightz stuff: + Show Spoiler + (1) Bluelightz case on mementoss: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 20:55 Bluelightz wrote: First, I think I should outline my main scum suspicions for now: Mementoss So, basically, I don't think he's contributing. Hey, here's some games on X, cheers! I think you obviously couldn't search em up yourself! (Scummy because he's just pointing out the obvious things: Filters of past games). Clearly trolling is a fine way to start the game! (Read: Nope, it's bad because it's not helping to find scum and win) Comments on meta of people are clearly helping us to win the game by killing scum! (Nope.) Well, this post is somewhat helping, by pressurign iamP for post's, but the other half is what? pointing out the wincons, cheers guys! I totally didn't know that. (Haha, no.) -First line: What the hell? -Second Line: Somewhat helpful by pointing out what mafia does with the WIFOM around marv, doesn't help much in finding scum though till late in the game. -Last line: This line is fine, pressures Hapa to post, the other statement is clear enough as well. *Agrees with someone* *Tries to make connections with someone* *Points out contradiction which he doesn't explain though it is clear* Okay, this post mementoss is trying to find scum, but what is his objective by making a connection to Hapa?! (He's trying to possibly direct pressure off prplhz to Hapa, and confusing the lynch target for today) Denies the possibility of someone being town. Talks about someone while inserting a subtle finger onto austinmcc (Hey I think X is scum, but why not lynch Y instead?) Defend's himself, this is fine, as he is trying to prove he is town and indeed, not scum. Point's out something on iamP's reason's on marv (subtlely defending him?) acknowledges failure in understand iamP's reason's on marv, doesn't help find scum any how! Direct's more pressure on Hapa, So, now with this last quote I leave you with this question, Who is your main scum target memen? You voted prplhz, inserted subtle fingers on austinmcc, and is pressuring Hapa, who do you think is scum actually? Oh, and ##Vote: Mementoss (2) Ange asks why Bluelightz is voting Mementoss over prplhz: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote: Haven't read on him yet, and when I read the thread once I came back from school he didn't stick out, I'll get to reading him now and adjust my reads accordingly. (3) Bluelightz asks questions about what Mementoss is doing at that time in the thread, while saying he finds prplhz scummy but not giving more than general reasoning: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote: Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? On September 18 2012 23:12 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, prplhz seems even more useless then mementoss, he has declared his stances on some people, and as you said, some unexplained reads. On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote: Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. (4) Mementoss responds to Bluelightz case and question: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote: @Bluelightz case I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says. Can't say much more now since I'm at work. On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote: If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness. On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote: Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other. RESPONSE TO NON-BLUELIGHTZ STUFF SNIPPED (5) Bluelightz response:+ Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 00:55 Bluelightz wrote: Ah, Memen, I see. Good explanation. ##Unvote: Mementoss ##Vote: prplhz If he doesn't step up his contributions (so do I), I think I'll keep my vote on him. I'll go into more detail on this tomorrow as I have to sleep. mementoss never really addresses Bluelightz' case. Just dislikes it as a whole, doesn't find any of what Bluelightz found scummy to be scummy. mementoss answers a follow-up question that Bluelightz had. Bluelightz asked this question without responding to mementoss's wholesale dismissal of his case. Bluelightz accepts that answer, unvotes, votes prplhz without giving much/any reasoning until today (there's a small bit in his response to Ange but it's generalized comments and you don't see any bluelightz-specific thoughts) Bluelightz then says today, at the end of his prplhz post: Basically that's why and I'll be happy to answer any questions/ give opinions on anyone. Noticeably hasn't updated his read on mementoss. We're not even sure if bluelightz finds mementoss scummy anymore, as the unvote was NOT related to a refutation of the case, so bluelightz should still be standing by his case. He doesn't drop in to say anything about mementoss at all, despite his initial target picking up SOME steam (yes yes, I know he's not leading in votes or anything)I do not like this interaction at all. Burying it in spoilers, don't want to push bluelightz today, but I really, really dislike that interaction. If I end up dying, someone please dig this up. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote: Mementoss is almost certainly town. If I do end up dead tonight you really, really need to take a critical look at the fact that prplhz and I agreed on reads. It's really fucking frustrating that you paint someone scum, then town proceeds to ignore you once you get shot. Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die. I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. Hapahauli is confirmed town with no action so he should absolutely be protected tonight. However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us. it's very unfortunate prplhz messed up the claim but once he did it I suppose there wasn't anything to do but lynch him. We could've ended up with 2 confirmed townies. I was pretty sure they were both town, especially hapa, but really prplhz too. The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum. mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be. His addition of mkfuba07 into the mix and the connections between marv and mkfuba is a very valuable addition to the thread, something I would not expect anyone that's scum to pick up on. It proves he's reading the thread with a lot of attention. Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest. No. No not really. also, looks like hiro and marv are both voting for austinmcc, which makes it less likely that he's scum at face value, although that's a very sketchy way to think about anything. Still, just confirms to me that it's not austin but marv we should be hanging tonight. Doesn't look like "very little reason to think he might flip scum" to me. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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