EPTRockband Mini Mafia - Page 42
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Marv's posts about Palmar are making me come around regarding him (Palmar). Marv's posts, as well as Hapa's earlier addition, have pushed him to the scummy side for me. He hasn't done anything overtly scummy, but from what I understand Palmar gives himself away with the quality of his play, and many here feel that he's not playing to his potential. If NMM3 is the source of that lengthy post marv quoted, I'll be taking a look at his filter from that game to get a comparison. My only comparison right now is from DN mafia, where I believe he had three one liners. I'm not sure what was going on there, but I'm pretty sure I can't draw anything from his play that game... As for Bluelightz, I had considered him earlier, but put him aside in favor of someone who until that time hadn't really contributed anything except self-defense (austin). It did seem strange how easily and apparently pleasantly he removed his vote on mementoss, but I thought that just might be his way. I don't like that he hasn't responded to questions from myself and austin (possibly others) regarding mementoss, especially after this empty post that states that he's going to do exactly that: On September 20 2012 10:26 Bluelightz wrote: GOD DAMN prplhz/ -_-. Reading up on any accusations or shit (like questions D  From what a few people have written, it seems as though this is in relative keeping with his town meta, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, and I'm not necessarily going to take meta arguments in his "defense" at face value. Does Bluelightz have a pretty consistent town meta, and can I understand it better by looking at any of his recent townie games? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
First of all, there's one post in Marv's filter that screams townie to me: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=23#445 He's slightly suspicious of a bunch of people, and clearly put quite a bit of effort into the post. He's way too open, and I'd expect his scumplay to be a lot lazier, especially given his recent long string of scumgames. Now as for Palmar's case, here's what it hinges on: 1) Marv changed his posting style when he was called out 2) Marv is not encouraging people to read the thread objectively 3) Marv's self-aware OMGUS vote 4) Marv sheeping on some "bad logic" First off, I don't understand why 1 or 2 are scumtells. Pretty much anyone will change their posting style after being called out for it, town or scum. In addition, townies spin posts subjectively all the time - that's very common in townie D1 play. Number 3 is a null-tell to me. There's a very legitimate chance he was just in a bad mood. Number 4 can be scummy under the right conditions, but marv's posting otherwise (above) suggests that it's just him making observations rather than legitimately sheeping cases. Unless he keeps doing this later in the game (i'll probably be long dead by then, so someone better watch out for this), this is not a major tell on D1. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I have some discussion of Bluelightz meta on pages 40/41, check 'em out. He has recent town games in GSL mini and Normal Mini III. His most recent scumgame was Normal Mini II I believe. Great thing is, these are all minis just like this game | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Bluelightz switch and play is odd, but that is not alignment indicative for him apparently, I have never played with him before. Zephridd had a bad case on Hapa who we now know is confirmed town. But having a bad case or being wrong isn't alignment indicative either. The fact that he mis-intrepreted him however, can be seen as scummy. But Hapa mis-intrepreted me twice, and we know he is town now so I guess it can happen if your town or scum. Look at the way zeph jumps onto prplhz , there is not really a solid reason and it feels kinda awkward. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9640 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote: Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet. Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection. @iamperfection: What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour. I like how you didnt answer the question........ I was going crazy when the claims went out. I hold hapa in pretty high regard for both his scum play (although he lowerd himself a couple of pegs after that fiasco) so i thought they were both scum immediatly when i saw that. I just couldnt see hapa screwing up that much. To me your questioning of me at that point of time was scum motivated because i think all other town members should have thought that hapa and prphlz were scum. in regards to the bold You give me to much credit im not smart enough to hatch a scheme like that. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 21 2012 03:46 Hapahauli wrote: No. No not really. Doesn't look like "very little reason to think he might flip scum" to me. To make sure I understand, are you pointing out that he admits his own reasoning is sketchy, but sticks with it anyway? | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On September 21 2012 01:50 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah, like I"m comparing his mentality here to his mentality in some of his other town games. His Normal Mini III play should speak for itself (townie reads on everrrryone), but take one of his posts in GSL Mini for example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295 He doesn't really tunnel 1 scumread. Gives a townie, null, and slightly scummy read all in one post. There are several posts like that throughout his filter - he rarely takes a hardline "tunnel-y" opinion on someone in that game. Or his first post in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#128 He establishes Risen as town when the whole town wants to lynch him. The most recent scumgame I found in his filter was Normal Mini II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=235418 He does play a fairly different meta than this game (few very long posts, etc), but I think he's displaying a similar mentality. He's very critical of people's play in his scumgame (as he was with prplzh). He's much more sure of his reads, similar to this game. This could be a trip down meta-confirmationbais lane and I'll have to look more into it, but the mentality IMO is striking. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts. I would disagree he seemed very unsure of his read on me in the early game this game. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:21 mkfuba07 wrote: To make sure I understand, are you pointing out that he admits his own reasoning is sketchy, but sticks with it anyway? In his latest post, he basically stated that there was a very little chance of austinmcc flipping scum, and he mentioned that he pointed it out previously. In the post that he does however, he's much more wishy-washy on his reasoning. He admits his reasoning is bad, and uses it more as a justification to lynch marv rather than saying austin isn't scum. There's no indication in that post that he things austin is townie and/or shouldn't get lynched. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:21 Mementoss wrote: I would disagree he seemed very unsure of his read on me in the early game this game. I agree with you partially, and I'm not suggesting that BL is 100% scum. However, there are a lot of other things in his filter that need to be looked at. Namely his "overkill' case against prplzh, as well as his complete absence of townie reads that are so common in his other town games. He hasn't been participating in discussion much at all, and his play seems remarkably clean for someone with a "crazy" town meta. Point is, I think that town really let him off the hook D1. He needs to be questioned, and he's blending in successfully. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:21 Mementoss wrote: When Bluelightz posted his case on you, posed a question, then unvoted later, did you feel like he was consistent in his behavior? Entirely independent of your alignment, how did you read Bluelightz vote/unvote?I would disagree he seemed very unsure of his read on me in the early game this game. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Town: Marv (for reasons previously posted) BlazingHand (duh) Zeph (mega confirmation bais vs. me) Null-ish: Ange (:effort: making me lean town on her) mkfuba (leaning town for reasons posted in thread - too open with thought process) Mementoss (null) Hiro (nullz) austinmcc (nullzzzzz) scum: Bluelightz Palmar I'll try to work out some of those null reads before the deadline. Should have a half an hour or so before the deadline to work on things. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:31 austinmcc wrote: When Bluelightz posted his case on you, posed a question, then unvoted later, did you feel like he was consistent in his behavior? Entirely independent of your alignment, how did you read Bluelightz vote/unvote? It seemed legit to me, I think he wrote his case came back and realized it was pretty wrong/bad. Then my responses cleared up any doubts he had. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:49 Hapahauli wrote: Oh and since night deadline is in a couple of hours and I have a commute subject to traffic: Town: Marv (for reasons previously posted) BlazingHand (duh) Zeph (mega confirmation bais vs. me) Null-ish: Ange (:effort: making me lean town on her) mkfuba (leaning town for reasons posted in thread - too open with thought process) Mementoss (null) Hiro (nullz) austinmcc (nullzzzzz) scum: Bluelightz Palmar I'll try to work out some of those null reads before the deadline. Should have a half an hour or so before the deadline to work on things. Could you elaborate more why you think MKfuba is town? I think the fear he has with posting openly has clearly painted him scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:51 Mementoss wrote: Could you elaborate more why you think MKfuba is town? I think the fear he has with posting openly has clearly painted him scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=37#736 | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:50 Mementoss wrote: It seemed legit to me, I think he wrote his case came back and realized it was pretty wrong/bad. Then my responses cleared up any doubts he had. Okay. Any posts you can link to back those thoughts up? Specifically the him realizing it was wrong/bad and what responses cleared things up. Trying to see that interaction from all angles, although he doesn't seem to <3 responding to things. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:53 Hapahauli wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=37#736 Before he made that post on austin though he made a much weaker one, his filter generally gives me a feel of him being scared to post then deciding to post later. The post on me was a different way of wording what other people have already said. Hard to tell though. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 21 2012 04:58 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, what made you nullify your read on Mementoss? Seems to have a clear conscience. Didn't really get caught up in the accusations against him and continued to scumhunt. I'd actually lean town on him tbh. | ||
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