EPTI will be back in a few hours.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIV - Page 43
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I will be back in a few hours. | ||
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
Current read fwiw is Town: Goodkarma, Darthpunk, Z-boson No idea: Stutters Anti-town play: Golbat, Obvious, YourHarry | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
@goodkarma Are you gonna bother defending my accusations against you since you are an "established townie"? @DarthPunk You cite a post you don't answer to. You say me attacking GK, an "established" townie is suspicious. Do you think my arguments are bad? Do you disagree with them? You say I then established him as townie despite my arguments. This is untrue, this is not what the "FOS GoodKarma" at the end of my post means. You raise some good points on your attack on Solar, but it is the first to come from you on him since day one, and yet you feel free to accuse me of not attacking him since day one? Most important of all, why did you invent the argument "he was a bit too defensive on SolarSail when I didn't include him as townie."? If it is indeed true, can you please quote it, because I cannot find anything that remotely comes close to this in my filter. Please, improve your arguments or at least explain them better. Just because you and gk are so sure of each other, doesn't mean that whatever you guys say is law and therefore doesn't demand explanations. This is a game of deception and observation, not feelings and trust. Oh, speaking of trust, you also suddenly, again without explanations , decide YourHarry is a better choice than SolarSail in a span of 10 minutes. After your talk with GK. Is your main argument to this decision based on your 100% trust on him? @Solar Sail Dude, it doesn't bode well for you to explicitly say you are going to sheep the leader. Make your own conclusions. This is just an excuse for not reading, and it's a very lame one. You also didn't even bother to retort to DarthPunk's arguments. This is very suspicious behavior. Read the filters of those you think are suspicious and make up your own damn mind Also, one thing that I do agree is that you have been too much under the radar. Will start reading your filter and see what I think, because you certainly don't look too good. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I’ve been pretty busy scum-hunting as of late, so I haven’t really had much extra time to spare focusing on your specific accusations. Honestly, I didn’t feel they were substantial enough to warrant much of a response. But I will briefly address your case directly. First you are upset about me looking at voting history. Voting history indeed can be fickle evidence, but if you were to closely read what I wrote, instead of just making a general assumption on a scum being the other major candidate in the case of a mislynch, I was also seeing where the people with “town reads” had cast their votes. Voting history alone from days one and two, as I’ve already mentioned, will not be a strong argument in this current game. As far as Darthpunk’s “mass claim” support: Yes, I did find this a bit suspicious but I didn’t really grill DarthPunk on it at the time. If you are to look at DarthPunk’s actions up to this point, they fit those of a town much better than they would those of a scum. This one action wasn’t enough for me to change my read on him. And DarthPunk has since explained why he did this, and while the explanation could be considered a little weak I still find it believable. As for YourHarry, YourHarry brought this mass claim policy up out of nowhere, and then continuously pushes it. Only after it’s clear the idea won’t gain momentum does he go back on it as a “bad idea.” This is a very different circumstance. And as far as my case points, specifically: My case was looking moreso at motive. Other cases about YourHarry have focused more on his anti-town tendencies, which I’ve also touched upon. But that his actions would serve a scum agenda well, and are inconsistent with what a town would conceivably do, was the focus of my case. Regarding Z-Boson: I don’t find you inherently suspicious for making case points against me as DarthPunk might. However, I do find the timing of your case highly suspicious. If you look at the timing, it would seem you are going out of your way to try to invalidate the + Show Spoiler + (arguably) | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
As others have mentioned you've been sheeping me pretty hard. You're already under heavy suspicion, and you're not making yourself look innocent by "sharing reads" in name list form without any explanation whatsoever to back them up. What I want to see from you before the voting deadline is your first "case writeup" on you top three scum reads. Consolidating your vote under mine following the policy I suggested is one thing, but handwaving your own reads almost entirely is quite another. You've been pressured heavily, and still you are coming back with very little sign of independent thought. If you are in fact town, you should not be afraid to share your reads in better detail. Now is the time to defend yourself. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On August 23 2012 05:06 goodkarma wrote: @Z-Boson: I’ve been pretty busy scum-hunting as of late, so I haven’t really had much extra time to spare focusing on your specific accusations. Honestly, I didn’t feel they were substantial enough to warrant much of a response. But I will briefly address your case directly. Well, I only made them because I felt they were substantial, because if a non-town person assumes (like Hapa did in XXI), then it is pretty much over. First you are upset about me looking at voting history. Voting history indeed can be fickle evidence, but if you were to closely read what I wrote, instead of just making a general assumption on a scum being the other major candidate in the case of a mislynch, I was also seeing where the people with “town reads” had cast their votes. Voting history alone from days one and two, as I’ve already mentioned, will not be a strong argument in this current game. As far as Darthpunk’s “mass claim” support: Yes, I did find this a bit suspicious but I didn’t really grill DarthPunk on it at the time. If you are to look at DarthPunk’s actions up to this point, they fit those of a town much better than they would those of a scum. This one action wasn’t enough for me to change my read on him. And DarthPunk has since explained why he did this, and while the explanation could be considered a little weak I still find it believable. As for YourHarry, YourHarry brought this mass claim policy up out of nowhere, and then continuously pushes it. Only after it’s clear the idea won’t gain momentum does he go back on it as a “bad idea.” This is a very different circumstance. Well, he brought it up, and DarthPunk agreed. Then it was clear that the idea would not gain momentum, and both disagreed. I honestly don't see much difference. And as far as my case points, specifically: My case was looking moreso at motive. Other cases about YourHarry have focused more on his anti-town tendencies, which I’ve also touched upon. But that his actions would serve a scum agenda well, and are inconsistent with what a town would conceivably do, was the focus of my case. I disagree with you here. I highly doubt that he has any motive, due to his randomness. And my argument establishes that it's his tendencies that would be stronger at deciding he is scum. I don't think there is such a thing as a "random wishy-washy" good guy and a "random wishy-washy" bad guy. There is just "random wishy-washy", which to me is clearly scum-motivated. Regarding Z-Boson: I don’t find you inherently suspicious for making case points against me as DarthPunk might. However, I do find the timing of your case highly suspicious. If you look at the timing, it would seem you are going out of your way to try to invalidate the + Show Spoiler + (arguably) We still had more than a day, and to me, you were acting very suspicious. The worst thing that could happen is you actually being scum during MYLO, which is why I was worried and didn't hesitate to FOS you. But I'll concede that at least for now, it's best to focus in who will be lynched, as a whole. I don't find Stutters that suspicious, so right now, I'll focus on deciding whether we will go through with the YH lynch or if Solar and Obvious have stronger cases on them. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
First you are upset about me looking at voting history. Voting history indeed can be fickle evidence, but if you were to closely read what I wrote, instead of just making a general assumption on a scum being the other major candidate in the case of a mislynch, I was also seeing where the people with “town reads” had cast their votes. Voting history alone from days one and two, as I’ve already mentioned, will not be a strong argument in this current game. I am not upset by looking at your voting history. I'm upset that you used it as an argument to find scum. I agree entirely on the bolded part. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
What are the implications that a YH vote was so easy? Do you guys have any thoughts about why the easiest guy to vote for (inconsistent behaviors, confusing meta) was the last guy we're voting for? I'm not saying that YH isn't scum. I came into this game with an open mind and an understanding that his play-style is very unique to him, so I didn't hold it against him at first, yet he's still difficult to get a solid read off of (to me) even taking his style into account. I guess I can defer to the wisdom of others when it comes to YH at this stage. I'm fine with either of the leading candidates. YH is a stronger option since it allays any need to decide what his musings allow us to infer and we're left with the more straightforward Solarsail to deal with later if he's still a candidate. | ||
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
YourHarry (5): goodkarma, Stutters695, Z-Boson, DarthPunk, Solarsail SolarSail (2): Obvious.660, Golbat goodkarma (1): YourHarry YourHarry is currently set to be lynched. Just under 3 hours until the deadline. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On August 23 2012 05:41 Obvious.660 wrote: I think it's relevant to point out that Golbat, whom we probably shouldn't expect to show back up, has placed his vote on Solarsail. In the event that Golbat both (1) does not return, and (2) is town, doesn't that essentially mean town either rallies under Solarsail or goes along with the YH vote now that YH is at 4? What are the implications that a YH vote was so easy? Do you guys have any thoughts about why the easiest guy to vote for (inconsistent behaviors, confusing meta) was the last guy we're voting for? I'm not saying that YH isn't scum. I came into this game with an open mind and an understanding that his play-style is very unique to him, so I didn't hold it against him at first, yet he's still difficult to get a solid read off of (to me) even taking his style into account. I guess I can defer to the wisdom of others when it comes to YH at this stage. I'm fine with either of the leading candidates. YH is a stronger option since it allays any need to decide what his musings allow us to infer and we're left with the more straightforward Solarsail to deal with later if he's still a candidate. This is a pretty good point, actually. YH in a lot of ways resembled thrawn. Confusing answers, weird meta, weird decisions, and I felt as sure about him as I do on YH now. Solar also had some "problems" in the beginning of the game, but unlike YH, has never made any real attempt at being protown. So right now we have a somewhat confusing sheepy player vs. a balls-out confusing random player. And we can't miss. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
At this point, there unfortunately isn't the option of "going with your best read." I'm confident everyone should have a firm town read at this point on DarthPunk and/or myself. Therefore, all town needs to go with our reads at this point and consolidate their votes onto YourHarry. I would say we could argue and consolidate onto SolarSail, but with only 1 1/2 hours to the voting deadline, and given the activity of people in this game, I feel there's too large a risk of not securing the needed votes before the deadline. However much I wish we could continue the debate, 1 1/4 hours is cutting it too close. YourHarry is town's best option right now, so please vote accordingly. Scum can still last-minute switch, so as town you need to vote YourHarry at this point. You can't just "feel good" about a minority vote, thinking that your vote doesn't matter. Because right now, it still does, and not consolidating will easily lead to another mislynch. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On August 23 2012 07:24 DarthPunk wrote: You already have 5. I guess this is calling me out specifically, since I'm the last person other than YourHarry himself.ok guys we all need to consolidate onto Your Harry so we are not screwed around by last minute vote changes. I will answer the Z-Boson case if we survive the cycle but at this point we should either be: consolidation onto your harry. Or consolidating onto solar sail. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: YourHarry | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You're assuming that all four of us are town, which is a very heavy assumption to be making at this point... We have to stick with YourHarry, as there is no longer the time needed to discuss and successfully vote switch. I still strongly feel we have the right candidate, and that with DarthPunk and myself on YourHarry scum is feeling forced to bus. TL;DR: One last time: we don't have the time to vote switch. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
I suggest we all unvote, discuss, and vote again, as we still have 40 minutes. If the scums don't follow suit and don't unvote, it will be clear who they are, they would certainly not risk it. I don't necessarily agree with this choice. YourHarry has a ton of shit, but he has a lot of pro-town posts. I read Obvious' case and DarthPunk's case on him, and I have to agree, he certainly looks scummy as hell. His play is even more ridiculous than YH. Then I read my case on YourHarry, and your case again. What obvious said made me retrospect, because the type of evidence YH is getting lynched for is almost identical the type of evidence that thrawn was, happenstance arguments. YES WE DO HAVE TIME. I propose this, all of us here now unvote, and if, at 8:50, not all of us are unvoted, we go ahead and vote for YH. By 8:55 all our votes are made, to the same person discussed. Essentially it is up to you, GK, because without you we won't be able to switch votes, and I strongly feel taht we should. Think about what has been said, and think quickly. Is YH the right choice?? ##Unvote | ||
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