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On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO!  I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH.
So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2.
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On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2.
Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked).
There is nothing I could do different.
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but... you wouldn't have been the lynch target if you hadn't fakeclaimed scum lol.
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This was a great game to read through, totally weird and pretty much all of my reads were wrong early on but quite fun to read none-the-less.
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On August 03 2012 04:38 strongandbig wrote:
but... you wouldn't have been the lynch target if you hadn't fakeclaimed scum lol.
This is a separate issue from my nuke.
Nobody cared about it anyway.
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On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2. Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different.
You sent the nuke on RoL way before you were "already dead" (as in, before sandro made that PM thing with you).
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On August 03 2012 10:13 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote:On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2. Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different. You sent the nuke on RoL way before you were "already dead" (as in, before sandro made that PM thing with you).
Yeah but nobody cared. The thing I am trying to explain is that I would send a nuke after sandro's claim anyway.
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I really did not like this setup. The idea is great, but it needs to be implemented in a more traditional format.
All the mafia was really obvious to be honest, BlazingHand was so obvious I decided to try to defend him because he's valuable as a disrupting presence in town. Foolishness never stood a chance and suffered from the same problem as me. layabout and MZ were really easy to find out. I thought Kurumi and GGQ were scum though, and I didn't think Q-bert and sloosh were scum. Gonzaw was quite obvious too.
Everyone who's familiar with my mafia play knows I just autobus my team all the time, I did that this game except for a few reads.
It takes too long to remove competent town players in this setup. How on earth am someone like me or foolishness going to keep up a charade of being town for 3 days? and that's best case scenario, the worst case scenario is that the best townplayer in the game is virtually unkillable. The whole idea of mafia is to kill people in the order they're likely to figure out what's going on.
With fewer scum players, and more night killing power the setup might be great, but there is just no way we can expect we can bullshit for such a long time.
Anyway, sorry to my team, this was like the 5th mafia game in a row for me and I just didn't have the drive to do it properly.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Thanks for trying to help me, Palmar. I really screwed up D1 and I think I might have been unsalvageable. I need to spend some time sitting down with a few scum guides, because whatever problems my town play may have, I've never lasted more than a day or two without getting pinned down by my own scumminess as scum.
In terms of the setup, this was an amazing marathon, especially as it got nearer to the end. I'm wondering if some sort of scum Called Shot KP, or something, might have been good, if only because, as Palmar noted, several strong players were allowed to live. Perhaps an alternative NK mechanic would work as well?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
you don't need guides, you need self-analysis
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Yeah but that requires things like "introspection" and "critical thinking" and "taking a good hard look at my play and criticizing it"... all of which is hard and a lot of work ;_;
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 04 2012 00:37 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah but that requires things like "introspection" and "critical thinking" and "taking a good hard look at my play and criticizing it"... all of which is hard and a lot of work ;_;
Indeed
Then again you could go and read scum guides which will take you time and give you no benefit whatosever because you cba to look at the failings specific to you.
Either way is good <3
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The problem is that it's simply impossible to play "good" mafia, because it's illogical to be wrong. The key is to maintain an illusion for long enough to dismantle the town in such a way they'll be unable to recover. This is how high-profile players need to play mafia.
I'm never going to be the guy who secures the win in the end for my scumteam, If it's day three and I haven't killed scum yet I need to be hanged. But the goal for people like that is to cause disruption and make the thread confusing, so that when you inevitably die you'll have taken every good town player with you through night kills, and the rest of town is left with nothing but a complete mess to analyse, giving your less talked about buddies the chance to succeed.
This is exactly how I approach mafia games, some of the best examples of this can be seen in my play in Personality, Liar and some mafia game. In all of them I've made ballsy claims or grand plans in order to force the thread to be bad.
This could've worked, if I could have taken out bugs and sandro n1, syllo and katina n2. Of course I still die on day 3, but the heads are gone and my team gets the freedom they need to operate, hell day 2 would've gone better if sandro was gone and I could in full force start arguing with syllo to maybe help foolishness a bit.
Maybe the setup is at no fault and it's expected that it can be very hard to kill intelligent townies, but I really have no clue how to do that for so long. The problem with intelligent townies is that they need to be right, and you need to be wrong. Non-top town players aren't terrible, they're just less adept at coming up with solutions, that doesn't mean they're incapable of recognizing a correct solution when it's presented to them by a top town player. Which is why killing town heads is so important.
One amazing town player, can make 10 decent townies good. Almost everyone in this game is at least decent or good, so all it takes is someone to lead them, then they WILL recognize what is correct and what is not, and steamroll the mafia.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
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On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2. Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different.
Then just don't nuke at all? Firing off a nuke with a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum is still terrible, especially when it isn't a small list of players with a known number of mafia members on it. All you're doing then is 1) playing horribly enough to be a serious candidate for a day 1 lynch and 2) further punishing your side twice as often as not by killing another player of your alignment. Focus on making good posts so you are not lynched during day 1; don't just decide "oh I'm going to die, but I need to use my KP before I go!" when you have absolutely no idea about who would be a reasonable target for your kill.
There was definitely plenty you could have done differently.
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On August 04 2012 04:07 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote:On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2. Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different. Then just don't nuke at all? Firing off a nuke with a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum is still terrible, especially when it isn't a small list of players with a known number of mafia members on it. All you're doing then is 1) playing horribly enough to be a serious candidate for a day 1 lynch and 2) further punishing your side twice as often as not by killing another player of your alignment. Focus on making good posts so you are not lynched during day 1; don't just decide "oh I'm going to die, but I need to use my KP before I go!" when you have absolutely no idea about who would be a reasonable target for your kill. There was definitely plenty you could have done differently.
There was one thing I could do differently:
Go serious mode and analyze the PM I get, then decide that it is a trap and I should probably say something about it.
I was dead after I forgot about lack of 3rd parties and decided to follow the PM. My play was irrelevant.
I wasn't Day 1 lynch candidate because of the Nuke, I was Day 1 candidate because I followed what sandroba told me to do in PM.
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On August 04 2012 04:22 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:07 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote:On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2. Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different. Then just don't nuke at all? Firing off a nuke with a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum is still terrible, especially when it isn't a small list of players with a known number of mafia members on it. All you're doing then is 1) playing horribly enough to be a serious candidate for a day 1 lynch and 2) further punishing your side twice as often as not by killing another player of your alignment. Focus on making good posts so you are not lynched during day 1; don't just decide "oh I'm going to die, but I need to use my KP before I go!" when you have absolutely no idea about who would be a reasonable target for your kill. There was definitely plenty you could have done differently. There was one thing I could do differently: Go serious mode and analyze the PM I get, then decide that it is a trap and I should probably say something about it. I was dead after I forgot about lack of 3rd parties and decided to follow the PM. My play was irrelevant. I wasn't Day 1 lynch candidate because of the Nuke, I was Day 1 candidate because I followed what sandroba told me to do in PM.
I think you're missing the point. Firing a nuke when you aren't pretty sure is always something you can do differently. You never should have fired that nuke in that position, even if it meant you were lynched without using the nuke at all.
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On August 04 2012 04:40 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:22 Kurumi wrote:On August 04 2012 04:07 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote:On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2. Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different. Then just don't nuke at all? Firing off a nuke with a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum is still terrible, especially when it isn't a small list of players with a known number of mafia members on it. All you're doing then is 1) playing horribly enough to be a serious candidate for a day 1 lynch and 2) further punishing your side twice as often as not by killing another player of your alignment. Focus on making good posts so you are not lynched during day 1; don't just decide "oh I'm going to die, but I need to use my KP before I go!" when you have absolutely no idea about who would be a reasonable target for your kill. There was definitely plenty you could have done differently. There was one thing I could do differently: Go serious mode and analyze the PM I get, then decide that it is a trap and I should probably say something about it. I was dead after I forgot about lack of 3rd parties and decided to follow the PM. My play was irrelevant. I wasn't Day 1 lynch candidate because of the Nuke, I was Day 1 candidate because I followed what sandroba told me to do in PM. I think you're missing the point. Firing a nuke when you aren't pretty sure is always something you can do differently. You never should have fired that nuke in that position, even if it meant you were lynched without using the nuke at all.
I followed my gut and it did not pay off.
There's a better reason for not nuking that fast.
If I did not nuke RoL, sandroba would never message me. BAM, I am no longer Day 1 lynch candidate and my nuke is here.
Now this is something... This proves that the nuke was stupid.
Oh well.
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On August 04 2012 04:22 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:07 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote:On August 03 2012 03:24 Qatol wrote:On August 03 2012 02:08 Kurumi wrote:I couldn't claim the nuke by the way. On August 03 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Think of it this way Kurumi. If you hadn't shot RoL, then you could have used your nuke on one of the lynch candidates D1 when a no-lynch was imminent. OH GOSH AND THAT WOULD HAVE HIT SCUM 100% TOO! I was sleeping during this time. And I wouldn't be able to do it either, unless I went with current lynch candidate who was BH. So don't claim it, and don't try to nuke anyone on day 1. I don't understand why you felt you had to nuke someone on day 1 anyways. With a 1 KP mafia, you should have felt relatively comfortable living until at least day 2. Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different. Then just don't nuke at all? Firing off a nuke with a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum is still terrible, especially when it isn't a small list of players with a known number of mafia members on it. All you're doing then is 1) playing horribly enough to be a serious candidate for a day 1 lynch and 2) further punishing your side twice as often as not by killing another player of your alignment. Focus on making good posts so you are not lynched during day 1; don't just decide "oh I'm going to die, but I need to use my KP before I go!" when you have absolutely no idea about who would be a reasonable target for your kill. There was definitely plenty you could have done differently. There was one thing I could do differently: Go serious mode and analyze the PM I get, then decide that it is a trap and I should probably say something about it. I was dead after I forgot about lack of 3rd parties and decided to follow the PM. My play was irrelevant. I wasn't Day 1 lynch candidate because of the Nuke, I was Day 1 candidate because I followed what sandroba told me to do in PM.
I originally was going to pm palmar, I even had sent out the message already, but due to host not being available to execute it when palmar was in the thread and you nuking a random person I changed it to you. What I'm saying is that had you optimized your actions in a pro-town manner, you would never been put in that situation to begin with.
I thought overall this setup really favors analysis, because of how lost mafia members are, their behavior is even more pronounced and easy to identify. I have no clue how to actually do well as mafia in this game, because I suck at it myself. I'm really curious as to why katina made that post though, which really blew my mind because she wasn't scum? Maybe some "stand up for my boyfriend" instinct? I would love if you could shed some light on that for me katina =)
Also I'm very curious about the mafia messages and if the hosts could post it I'd love to read them.
Overall I found the setup quite fun, but some of the stuff going on in the thread really annoyed me. First is the majority lynch and the deadline, the prior was already addressed and the latter was changed during the game. Second is the way some people go about this game, which really bothers me. The focus of the game should be winning and optimizing your actions and posts to actually achieve that purpose. It doesn't matter who gets the credit or who makes the call. What matters is that the right call is made. Also you should take into account every possibility, definitely, but you should go with and support the most likely one in thread, until evidence is presented to make you reconsider your stance. Going on and on about how someone COULD be mafia if the stars aligned and baby jesus wished it to be doesn't accomplish anything and can be said about almost anyone in the thread. It's okay to be wrong at first and support a mafia as long as you are open to change your mind should something come up, and you were given enough evidence that supporting that person is right. What's not okay is to not support a town person who is right on the off chance of them being mafia. By doing that you create every opening mafia needs to actually shut down the credibility of such person and camouflage amongst the paranoid townies. Third is people repeatedly signing up for games and not putting in the time to play it. Seriously, just don't sign up or ask for a replacement early.
I'd like to thank the hosts for the game, as always they created a really interesting setup.
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EPT
