EPTBureaucracy Mafia! - Page 14
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Probulous, I agree with you that shifts are an important thing to look at. But day 1 to day 2 is not the time I'm interested in. Halfway through day 1 and halfway through night 1 are the times that are important; this is when the 2 managers will receive their orders and they are the people who have the most knowledge in this setup. Also, I want to hear everyone's thoughts on policy lynching people who claim cop/track/watch and say that they have a red check on someone. The way I see it is in this setup, even if mafia has only 1 KP (and I would think 2 is more likely), 1 for 1 trades are good for them due to the sheer number of people they have. It would be very easy for a minion to fake a claim and watch as the other person gets lynched. If they're town, it's good, 1 for 1 is right on the pace they need. If they happen to kill one of their own they can use the cred to confirm themselves pretty much. I think the same thing would also apply to vigis who try to claim a shot without breadcrumbs. If a manager dies, will we receive any info that they got on their minions (other than their names)? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
It's ok, we can deal with that later. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:12 Palmar wrote: note to self: sandroba confirmed scum. It's ok, we can deal with that later. riiight. deal with it later? kill me now if I'm confirmed scum, no? Do you actually have to wait for a message from above first? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On June 11 2012 18:19 Palmar wrote: The %s may be higher here, but a random lynch still isn't anything but a discussion-generator. That game was 2 scum 1 SK 8 town, 3/11 or 27% chance to hit non-town on a random lynch. This is 9/27, 33% chance. Not higher enough to really matter.Supporting an RNG lynch is not a bad idea. It's a net gain for town, as long as you settle the target early enough. It will actually help a lot trying to figure out what really is going on in the game. It creates an unusual situation that most people aren't sure how to react to, and it's in an unstable environment it's easiest to catch mafia. The point is that you can't really explain that in the thread (hence why I didn't) because as soon as everyone realizes you're meant to argue about whether you actually follow through with the random lynch, instead of just executing it, everyone will start thinking about it like a normal case based on analysis, and the advantage will have been lost. I'm hoping some of you remember this for future games, I've yet to successfully push through the idea of a RL because of it's inherent flaw that you can't explain it. It's like why arguing about LAL is dumb as shit. As soon as you argue about it, you've given people an excuse to lie. You just shut your stupid face and say that it's a 100% solid policy and liars WILL be lynched, while secretly keeping yourself in check and being ready to go against that position. Anyway, enough about how to play mafia. I like the discussion of causing chaos to mess with mafia, to some extent. Just like with the Sleeper Cell games, this isn't normal mafia. Town have the numbers advantage, and, for now, are more or less on even footing information-wise. Scum don't have an advantage UNTIL they get organized. Some forms of being chaotic would be equally harmful to both factions, other forms would be more harmful to town (higher numbers). However, I don't support trying to cause chaos, because we don't know (and can't know) when mafia will get organized. We can speculate all we want about how many cycles it could take, and how each of us would communicate with mafia underlings were we CEO (see sleeper cell...II? for message speculation), but, especially given the vague comments about censoring messages made by hosts, we just don't know whether mafia can get fully organized, or how long that would take. At some point, IF they can organize, any chaos we cause only hurts town and no longer hurts mafia. Not good. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:17 austinmcc wrote: Ummmm, did nobody read iGrok's game? The %s may be higher here, but a random lynch still isn't anything but a discussion-generator. That game was 2 scum 1 SK 8 town, 3/11 or 27% chance to hit non-town on a random lynch. This is 9/27, 33% chance. Not higher enough to really matter. I like the discussion of causing chaos to mess with mafia, to some extent. Just like with the Sleeper Cell games, this isn't normal mafia. Town have the numbers advantage, and, for now, are more or less on even footing information-wise. Scum don't have an advantage UNTIL they get organized. Some forms of being chaotic would be equally harmful to both factions, other forms would be more harmful to town (higher numbers). However, I don't support trying to cause chaos, because we don't know (and can't know) when mafia will get organized. We can speculate all we want about how many cycles it could take, and how each of us would communicate with mafia underlings were we CEO (see sleeper cell...II? for message speculation), but, especially given the vague comments about censoring messages made by hosts, we just don't know whether mafia can get fully organized, or how long that would take. At some point, IF they can organize, any chaos we cause only hurts town and no longer hurts mafia. Not good. Can we kill you? Or would that be too much chaos? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:17 austinmcc wrote: [b]I like the discussion of causing chaos to mess with mafia, to some extent. ... However, I don't support trying to cause chaos As in, QbertZ's bringing it up wasn't a bad idea, but I don't think we should try and make things chaotic. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:30 austinmcc wrote: You can. But you shouldn't. That's right, I'm claiming killable. As in, QbertZ's bringing it up wasn't a bad idea, but I don't think we should try and make things chaotic. I imagine you have an opinion on MZ/BH that you'd like to share then if you thought that was good discussion? | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:31 sandroba wrote: to add something to this very good and thought out out case, who the fuck looks at their previous post and slides in a comment about it's shortness. You guess correctly: mafia. So there was sandroba who was diligent and made cases, where is he? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:36 HiroPro wrote: I imagine you have an opinion on MZ/BH that you'd like to share then if you thought that was good discussion? I do not have an opinion worth sharing on them atm. But I'll share something else. Roleplaying sounds like it would be fun in this game. It also sounds like it offers the ability to send extra messages or plans, intelligible only with clues from mafia communications. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On July 16 2012 14:49 Probulous wrote: + Show Spoiler + Ok since no-one seems to want to actually participate, here are some thoughts of mine of the setup. Aside from trying to kill town, the only thing that binds mafia as a team is their strategy dictated from above. From my reading this is sent during the night. Thus day 2 is going to be crucial. We should be aware of people who change reads for bad reasons or suddenly become active. Basically anyone who suddenly gains direction overnight will be a good target to poke. As for Day 1, I think participation and clarity will be extra useful because mafia now know that they are setting themselves up for difficulties in Day 2 if they pick targets Day 1. People with clear targets are going to have to work harder to change them if a different CEO strategy comes in. Thoughts? wifom On July 16 2012 15:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: People are being shy violets right now but I like what probulous has posted thus far. how can you like this nonsense? On July 16 2012 15:43 Blazinghand wrote: + Show Spoiler + To add to my previous post, which is unreasonably short: That's awfully irresponsible of you, M_Z. Are you FoSing him without calling him scum? Way to take any air whatosever out of your FoS. You're probably worried that you'll be told by your overlords that he's scum with you and you want an excuse not to vote him later. that was not the scummy part... therefor: On July 16 2012 22:07 sandroba wrote: Right I read through everything. I want to kill blazinghand. Smart people that disagree please post reasons! i tend to agree On July 16 2012 22:26 syllogism wrote: I actually somewhat agree with sandro on blazing. This post also feels artificial to me, that is to say he it doesn't read like he actually believes in what he is saying oh yes I love to play with people that actually make some sense! | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:12 Palmar wrote: note to self: sandroba confirmed scum. It's ok, we can deal with that later. How content are you that sandro is scum? | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
First off the random vote is a bad idea, normally the reason it is used is to eliminate mafia influence, but guess what the mafia don't know who each other are so this lynch will be without their influence anyway. We have a golden opportunity to have a lynch today with mafia having to base their judgments on reads, and make hard choices while not able to communicate. Fellow employees do not squander this opportunity! This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for. @ HiroPro Third yes mafia only has 1 KP see: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. Fourth, While I think a Policy lynch on claiming blues is bad, I do think you bring up a very valid point. As you mention 1 for 1 may not be a bad trade for them so I think we should certainly be extra wary of any claimants and possibly lynch the claimant if it seems fishy, but I think a Policy is going a bit too far. OK so thats my setup review / plans post, I am now working on locating scum so I will follow up in a bit with my thoughts on who to lynch. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 16 2012 23:32 rastaban wrote: This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for. Hmm. Scum don't use sound reasoning? :/ | ||
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