EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XX - Page 46
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
This is very scummy. You are trying to downplay the fact that we have misslynched Release and was about to misslynch Zen_Man. Will this be your argument when Bass flips miller aswell? He clearly states what happened, how can that be downplaying it? This check was not useless. If someone would flip miller, we can just auto-lynch Bass. But that will not happend as Bass is miller. What if the miller flips too late? Keep in mind Jingle said the same about Hopeless. Hapa was very convinced Jingle was Mafia. We all said the same about Release (As YourHarry pointed out). He never said it was useless, he said that because there is a miller the validity of investigation has been compromised; As in it might not be entirely true. All you said in that post was plain bullshit. Anyway. I don't side with Harry, nor do I side with Bass. I believe that keeping BassInSpace alive is not crucial for town victory. What you do need is town-aligned information and viewpoints. Now, if BassInSpace makes his cases; "Who would he lynch first? Next? etc", you still have his viewpoints. If we then lynch him we either get a Mafia and win the game or get a valid source of information there is no need to distrust. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
People, either get of this stupid bandwagon on Bass or at least say why you think he should be lynched I already did. Have you stopped reading? I clearly stated it. What I also clearly stated was why I think your post targeting YourHarry was bullshit, which you seem to have completely ignored. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 12 2012 06:26 Evulrabbitz wrote: He clearly states what happened, how can that be downplaying it? What if the miller flips too late? Keep in mind Jingle said the same about Hopeless. Hapa was very convinced Jingle was Mafia. We all said the same about Release (As YourHarry pointed out). He never said it was useless, he said that because there is a miller the validity of investigation has been compromised; As in it might not be entirely true. All you said in that post was plain bullshit. Anyway. I don't side with Harry, nor do I side with Bass. I believe that keeping BassInSpace alive is not crucial for town victory. What you do need is town-aligned information and viewpoints. Now, if BassInSpace makes his cases; "Who would he lynch first? Next? etc", you still have his viewpoints. If we then lynch him we either get a Mafia and win the game or get a valid source of information there is no need to distrust. Lynching on hope and prayer is incredibly stuipd. If he turns up mafia, yay we win. If he turns up miller, we are screwed. Please just read through his filter - I see NOTHING about his play that's remotely scummy. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 12 2012 06:33 Evulrabbitz wrote: I already did. Have you stopped reading? I clearly stated it. What I also clearly stated was why I think your post targeting YourHarry was bullshit, which you seem to have completely ignored. It's not entirely bullshit. YourHarry basically discourages us from doing analysis and cites Release and (note: this is while YourHarry is under suspicion) and to vote for Bass immediately. This is despite me and YourHarry coming to a concensus that there's no mathematical basis for lynching Bass now as opposed to later. I was on the fence about YourHarry until I saw his last post. There are so many contradictions and anti-town mentality in it that I'll cast my vote unless another compelling case is brought forward. My earlier suspicions against YourHarry still stand, including but not limited to:
##Vote YourHarry | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
Now if Lazer meant the entire play of YourHarry and not just what he quotes, he should have said so. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 12 2012 05:47 Lazermonkey wrote: No, this is just plain false. We are playing mafia, not maths. Lynching B is better because he is most likely to be scum while A is most likely to be miller. Whattiwhatti? So basically you are saying people who are playing in a townie way(like Bass for example...) should be lynched because that's how mafia play? This doesn't make any sense at all. Also you say your not confident in scum hunting. Why do you say this? You are voting Bass really fast but yet you say this. Are you afraid that we will be comming after you when Bass flips miller? No, we don't want to lynch Bass at all. It's quite clear to me that he is miller. If you don't agree with this, feel free to point out the scummy things in his filter that I seem to have missed. What exactly is false about it? We are playing mafia, you are correct. Math can apply to everywhere. Including mafia. We don't HAVE to use what we know about math, but if applying what we know about math can help us win, then we should. I am not saying that people who act townie should be lynched. I said there is a limit to how much scum hunting can help us. Yes, I voted Bass because he was checked out "red". I was not voting Bass because my scum hunting told me that I think Bass is mafia. If I was afraid that you guys will come after me when Bass flips miller, then I would have voiced my opinion that we should ignore what the detective has told us and continue scum hunting as if we didn't know that information. How is it quite clear that he is a miller. Was it clear to you that ZenMan was a scum until he confessed medic? Was it clear to you that Release was scum? | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 12 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote: [/b]First of all, calling it a 50% chance to lynch Bass is inherently fallicious. There's either a 100% chance he's scum, or a 100% chance he's miller. Calling it 50% is a vast oversimplification of the situation. It is not fallacious at all. Our mod knows for sure whether Bass is scum or miller. From his perspective, Bass is either 100% scum or 100% miller. From our perspective, 50% of the time he is miller. Other 50% of the time he is a scum. That is, if we were to lynch Bass today, we have 50% chance of winning. This, you agreed with. And of course, I wasn't saying that Bass is half miller and half scum. You know that. Before I continue to respond to everyone's reply, I want to ask you one thing. You guys are saying that 50% does not matter. The probability does not matter. Lazer is arguing that this is "not math". What if there were 3 scums left and 1 miller left? And detective's "guilty" report implied 75% chance of Bass flipping scum. Would you still ignore what implications of detective's finding? What if it was 90%? Somehow, I am afraid that I will continue to hear lazer argue that "90% doesn't matter. we should still find someone who is scummy". A player can be scummy for many reasons. Scuminess encrypted in his responses is what you guys are going after. But a player can also be scummy because he received a "guilty" report from the detective. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 12 2012 07:23 Evulrabbitz wrote: Well at least we are on the same page then. I fail to see how you can find that post beneficial but regardless, I just wanted to know if you thought I called you post bullshit or you thought I called Lazer's bullshit Ok good - I'll clear up my thoughts on his post. Lazer brings up some pretty good/suspicious points about YourHarry's post: 1) There's no reason a townie should ever discourage analysis EVER. Even if his justiciation was to push the Bass lynch, this is still incredibly suspicious. 2) Lazer attacks YourHarry's logic about Bass - as previously stated, lynching Bass solely on his guilty check, especially in light of his pro-town behavior - is just stuipd. There's even more in that post that Lazer didn't even mention, but him calling attention to a suspicious post is far from "bullshit." | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 12 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote: Do you really think there aren't more suspicious players than Bass? Who is your strongest scumread? I only have 4 choices. I do find Makin not really participating suspicious. I would think that the scum, when it was 1 vs. 10, would have been very discouraged to continue playing, which explains lack of post. He also was around night time, because he admitted that he thought he made a post during night. He however did not make a post. This confusion could have arised from his experience of PMing with the mod about the game during night. Plus our mod's refusal to modkill him. I should know better that this is a null tell - from mod's killing the godfather - but can't stop it from lingering in my head. And I wouldn't do this - for the spirit of the game - but if I really wanted to win and was about to get lynched, I may attempt to try to get modkilled so that townies get additional chance at lynching.  | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
In the post I read Lazermonkey states that: 1) YourHarry is downplaying that we mislynched Release and almost Zen_Man 2) YourHarry said my check on Bass was useless. On the first point; YourHarry clearly states what happened. We mislynched Release and we almost killed Zen_Man. This is not downplaying, this is the opposite. On the second point; YouHarry said that, because there is a miller we can't know for sure that a person investigated as Guilty is Mafia. Now,now. I am not making a case against Lazermonkey, neither am I saying everything else he has said is a lie. I am simply saying that his last post regarding the case against YourHarry might now have been so well thought-out. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 12 2012 07:27 YourHarry wrote: --SNIP-- Before I continue to respond to everyone's reply, I want to ask you one thing. You guys are saying that 50% does not matter. The probability does not matter. Lazer is arguing that this is "not math". What if there were 3 scums left and 1 miller left? And detective's "guilty" report implied 75% chance of Bass flipping scum. Would you still ignore what implications of detective's finding? What if it was 90%? Somehow, I am afraid that I will continue to hear lazer argue that "90% doesn't matter. we should still find someone who is scummy". A player can be scummy for many reasons. Scuminess encrypted in his responses is what you guys are going after. But a player can also be scummy because he received a "guilty" report from the detective. If someone has behaving the exact opposite of scummy, I'm not going to vote him/her, simple. Throwing out unrealistic percentages does nothing to justify Bass's Lynch. You want to lynch Bass? Come up with a case against him. Find something suspicious, build a case, and we'll listen to you. If you can't, there's no way in hell I'll lynch him. | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 12 2012 07:31 Hapahauli wrote: Ok good - I'll clear up my thoughts on his post. Lazer brings up some pretty good/suspicious points about YourHarry's post: 1) There's no reason a townie should ever discourage analysis EVER. Even if his justiciation was to push the Bass lynch, this is still incredibly suspicious. 2) Lazer attacks YourHarry's logic about Bass - as previously stated, lynching Bass solely on his guilty check, especially in light of his pro-town behavior - is just stuipd. There's even more in that post that Lazer didn't even mention, but him calling attention to a suspicious post is far from "bullshit." I underlined the point that I wanted to respond to above. What exactly is stupid about it. Can you put it in logical format? Keep in mind that our goal is to win. What if Evul's check on Bass meant that Bass is 90% scum. Should we still ignore that. And I was not trying to discourage analysis. I simply admitted that its powers are limited, as we already know from our attempts at mislynches. If you re-read what I typed or quote me, this should be clear. If not, it's my fault. I am not trying to discourage analysis. And why would scum Harry insist lynching Bass? Especially when it became apparent that people's do not like my supporting the idea of lynching Bass based on his guilty report, what exactly does scum Harry have to gain by continuing to insist this. | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 12 2012 07:48 Hapahauli wrote: If someone has behaving the exact opposite of scummy, I'm not going to vote him/her, simple. Throwing out unrealistic percentages does nothing to justify Bass's Lynch. You want to lynch Bass? Come up with a case against him. Find something suspicious, build a case, and we'll listen to you. If you can't, there's no way in hell I'll lynch him. I threw in the unrealistic percentage to make a point that it is all about the probability. If it was a fact that player X had 90% chance of being scum, would you lynch him if he acted townie all game? The answer should be yes, because scum hunting is reliable 90% of the time. Here we are dealing with 50%, not 90%. But this is quantitative, not qualitative, difference. For example, if there were 4 millers in the game, and evul's report implied 20% chance of Bass being scum, then yes I would not think much of it. I would put more eggs in the scum hunting basket. At 50%, it is clear to me at least, what we should do. | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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