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![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
*TheToast and GMarshal are helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards them or myself.
xsksc and artanis[xp] will be the town coaches for this game. Marvellosity will be the mafia coach for this game.
Newbie Mini Mafia XIX
ABL Mini Mafia
+ Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Standard rules apply. If you're not familiar with them, please read them below.
+ Show Spoiler +Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account.
11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM.
12. Posting a false role PM phrased as if you received it from the host. You can still fake roleclaim, but you cannot make it look like you are posting a PM you received from the host.
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font:
This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs:
On April 26 2011 13:22 mikeymoo wrote:
Smurfs must PM the host because TL doesn't allow multiple accounts otherwise. If the host is unaware of smurfs, you (and/or your smurf) can be banned for having multiple accounts.
Spam:
Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here. This also means you should condense your posts when possible. 15 one-liners in 30 minutes is unacceptable.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be replaced. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts:
The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about replacements/modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Out of thread communication:
It is common for mafia (and town circles if PMs are allowed) to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Please be mindful that other players may be more tech savvy than you and they may attempt impersonate members of your team or attempt to infiltrate your chat. You use these media at your own risk.
Encryption:
To decrypt this message use http://infoencrypt.com/
F9Sckk7AoTcJMZ4wgLNAx94xIbtZSeQMs4gJ1eHQYqkPpSRwNDKJGbAkMnEkhQds
Password: Who is the ABL's most notorious PBU? Six characters, no punctuation, no caps.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes here, and only vote here. Do not PM us your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. To change your vote, post ##unvote, then vote normally.
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
5. This game uses Majority Lynch. i.e. six players remain, four are needed to lynch.
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups:
This game is open to anyone who has played three or less games of Mafia on TL. Signups will remain open until all 12 spots have been filled.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements
This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until Day Three. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list. Replacements are greatly preferred over modkills, so please PM one of the hosts if you are willing to replace in and don't ask for the obs QT.
Clues:
There are (no) clues.
PMs
PMs are (not) allowed in this game.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 22:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits:
Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer.
Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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The Setup
This is a semi-open setup. You will know which roles may appear in the game but not the number. Well, there is at least one vanilla townie. But that's all you know.
Role PMs:
+ Show Spoiler +ABL Poster (Vanilla Townie): You are just a lowly poster in the ABL thread, you're only weapon is your wit and the search button. Your job is to investigate the posts of other users and tease out the scum.
Motbob (Detective): You are motbob, one of the more clever of the mods. You, possibly from an bizzare abundance of free time, have the most connections to other esports community sites. As such, you are able to investigate claims and threads more effectively than the other mods.
Kwark (Vigilante): You're a good mod, you care about TL.net, but you have a bit of a short fuse when it comes to poor posters. As such you may, once per game starting night 1, attempt to perm ban (send in a night hit) against any player.
Heyoka (Medic): You are a compassionate soul who, for your own reasons, can commute the perm ban of any user on TL.net. You do so regularly, but must carefully judge each action so you do not save one of those scummy posters from a rightful perm.Each night you may choose to protect one player from a night hit!
GMarshal (Jailkeeper): You are the mighty GMarshal, the man of a thousand reports, the great ban hammer of the western lands. You are also a compassionate pony-loving soul. In your quest to spread the friendship of magic to everyone, you use your powers of moderation to protect individuals from themselves with short temp bans and warnings in the hopes that they see the light. Once per night, you may target a player to protect and roleblock. You win with the town.
R1ch (Tracker): You are R1ch! From deep inside the TL.net command center, you can use your advanced IP tracking technology to keep tabs on TL's users. Each night, you may choose one player to follow, and learn who they visited that night!
Nyovne (Watcher): You are Nyovne! Awoken from your 1000 year long slumber by shitty posting on TL, you arrive to smash those 12 year olds into oblivion! You are everywhere and yet no where, you don't need sleep nor rest of any kind. As such you have the ability to watch posters more closely than other mods. Each night, you may choose one player to watch, and learn who visited them that night!
Pro-gamer/Jerk (Veteran): You are a member of the gaming elite! As someone who has been playing SC2 professionally since the beta, you know a thing or two about this game, and you're always happy to share your knowledge with the people of this site. Which is too bad, because you're kind of an asshole. Your experience has earned you grace with the mods of the site, and the ability to survive one ban (night hit).
Korean Music Fan (Miller): You are just an ordinary member of TL. Well, almost ordinary. You are a Korean music fan, and often get into dumb, pointless, raging arguments with Roffles in the KMD thread. For that reason, you return Mafia to detectives who choose to check you. Millers are not informed that they are millers; rather, they are given regular vanilla townie PMs. The Miller will be revealed as a Miller upon his/her death. The Miller is on the side of the Townies and wins if they win.
Shitty Poster (Goon): Your goal is to shit up TL as much as possible without getting caught! Maybe you came from reddit, maybe you came from some deep dark part of the internet, we'll never know for sure. But you hate TL and everything it stands for, but most of all you hate those nazi mods! You have no special powers, only the ability to make asinine trolly posts in the hopes of getting other people banned.
Skilled Troll (Mafia Vig) You are are a troll, but a good one who has the ability to draw others into idiotic discussions. Discussions so stupid that they get mad and post angry all caps replies that leads to them getting banned. As such you may, once per game starting night 1, attempt to get a user perm banned (send in a night hit).
Skilled Bullshitter (Role Blocker) You are a skilled thread derailer, you have the ability to take any thread on TL and subtly derail it with complete bullshit. So subtle that no one notices, but effective enough that no one in the thread can have a coherent conversation and spend the entire night trying to refute the total nonsensical bullshit that you brought up. Each night you may choose one target of your choice to bullshit. That player will not be able to perform any actions for the night. Your target will be informed they were roleblocked. Roleblocks do not block passive abilities.
Complete Asshole (Mafia Godfather) You are a complete asshole, period. You hate TL and it's "nazi mods" but at the same time want the stream traffic that it brings to you. You are a whiner, a complainer, a jerk, a total ass. All the other 13 year old shitty posters bow down to you and your total assery. You are the king ass, the big anus, the major dildo. Because all the other shitty posters love you, you return Town to all checks.
The Players
- Anacletus
- Myles
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NrGmonk > sciberbia
- JingleHell
- AmericanÜmlaut
- Intact
- BobTheLob
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BLinD-RawR > Keirathi
- iamperfection
- Promethelax
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Fencer710 > Miltonkram
- Hopeless1der
+ Show Spoiler [Replacements] +Replacements are for chumps!
+ Show Spoiler [Flips] +- Anacletus, playing the part of GMarshal, the Jailer, was lynched Day 1.
- JingleHell, playing the part of the ABL Poster, was found dead Night 1.
- Intact, playing the part of the ABL Poster, was lynched Day 2.
- Sciberbia, playing the part of the ABL Poster, was found dead Night 2.
There are 5 out of 9 town players left.
There are 3 out of 3 scum players left.
Q&A
- Town wins when there are no more scum.
- Scum wins when they outnumber town or nothing can prevent this from happening.
- Scum KP is fixed at 1.
- It takes (players remaining)/2 rounded up votes to lynch somebody. ie, with 6 players in the game, it takes 4 to lynch.
- There are no 3rd Party Planer Dragons in this game. Probably.
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shamelessly stole this from EchelonTee. thanks mate!
Newbie-specific stuff
- It's already in the rules, but remember, no editing. If you feel you must correct your post, please make a second post to clarify your statements. You may put EBWOP ("Edit by way of post," a handy acronym invented by semioldguy) at the beginning of your post to indicate that you are clearing up a point you made. If your EBWOP post is several posts after your original, please quote your original post in your EBWOP post for the sake of clarity.
- Only sign up if you know you will have the time available to properly play the game. It is essential that players remain active in a newbie game, so only /in if you are able to play to your fullest.
- If there is any sort of issue, you are unsure about some mechanic, or you are just wondering if your devilish scheme is even allowed, feel free to PM me, or ask in-thread with green text. Don't feel shy; these games are meant to be a place to learn and be open.
- Behave as gentlemen (or ladies). Things get heated here, but personal attacks will not be acceptable, and will be dealt with accordingly. Remember, this is a game; have fun and happy scumhunting!
- glhf!
Useful Guides
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/in
good luck have fun everyone  !
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United States5162 Posts
/in
and since this should be for those who frequent the ABL thread, the encryption password is perfect
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United States8476 Posts
I can /in if I'm allowed to play 2 newbie games at the same time and as long as this doesn't start for another week. I have a shitload of TL-related stuff to do this week.
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Aww hamster!!! :3
I wanted to be a hamster in my newbie games 
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Is it actually a newbie mafia?
if not /in
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And do we need to figure out the encryption to play?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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On June 26 2012 07:25 MajuGarzett wrote:
And do we need to figure out the encryption to play?
If you can't figure out the encryption password, you're probably not part of the minicommunity this game is aimed at  . But I think it's not strictly required.
By the way, Is voting really taking place in the main thread, or did you forget to link to the voting thread in the OP?
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On June 26 2012 16:37 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 07:25 MajuGarzett wrote:
And do we need to figure out the encryption to play? If you can't figure out the encryption password, you're probably not part of the minicommunity this game is aimed at . But I think it's not strictly required. By the way, Is voting really taking place in the main thread, or did you forget to link to the voting thread in the OP?
True, I did get it eventually though.
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@NrGmonk: I don't mind you playing in multiple games, but I don't want to have to replace you if you run out of time. If it looks like you won't have the time to play, don't, but if you can make it work, we're happy to have you.
@maju: Glad you figured it out. I doubt the hosts would have helped you out there
Since this is a Newbie Mini, I'd prefer that it have players with three or less games here on TL. You're at four, so I don't think adding you is the end of the world, but I might bump you out if this game fills up quickly with people with less games than you.
@AÜ: Voting will be done in thread. We'll post votecounts in thread if/when you ask, and periodically during the game.
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What does "Scum KP is fixed at 1." mean?
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@JH: In some games, scum can kill more than one player at night depending on how many scum are in the game. In this game, no matter how many scum are left, they can only kill one player.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
didn't I /in in the ABL thread?
whatever
/in
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Why are PMs not allowed? It seems most of the guides treat them as almost standard fare, how will people coordinate and get oportunity to lie about each other?
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To clarify, townies are not allowed to communicate outside of the thread; the mafia are (only with each other). Mafia will be given links to a quicktopic thread where they will be allowed to communicate in private (PMs are also allowed, but discouraged. The QT allows us hosts to spy on you).
PM games have fallen out of favor on TL for whatever reason. Most of the more recent games here have been played out this way. Maybe tonight I'll sit down and find some guides that deal explicitly with non-PM games.
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On June 27 2012 00:22 JingleHell wrote:
Why are PMs not allowed? It seems most of the guides treat them as almost standard fare, how will people coordinate and get oportunity to lie about each other?
Radfield (the guy who makes sure the newbie games are running smoothly) might be able to answer this better than I can, but I'll give it a shot.
The biggest reason is because PMs tend to lessen the learning experience (mostly because of the odds that a detective will team up with a townie mouth) without actually helping the skill level of the players. The point of these games is for you to get a taste of actively contributing in the game without relying too much on "follow the leader," which is often "follow the detective" in these sorts of games. Also, it's generally more fun for more players if they can all participate, rather than forcing townies to follow orders from a small circle of players while the mafia try to hunt down those players.
Another big reason for the No PM rule in newbie games is often you will see players coaching during the newbie games or hosts giving pointers after the game is over. It gets exponentially harder for a coach/host to give any sort of meaningful advice/pointers if half of the game was played in PM land rather than in the thread.
Much of the material from the guides should still be quite useful to you. In fact, they generally tell you to avoid relying too heavily on PMs and try to keep most information in the thread whenever possible. At the very least, the most important information in the guides is the stuff about how to post in the thread and how to read the thread. Learning how to do those two things well should be your focus right now if you are trying to improve.
Also, as ghost_403 mentioned, there are more non-PM games than PM games these days. That might change in the future, but that's the current trend. So a non-PM game will prepare you better for most of the games going on in the forum currently.
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I'm /in. When is this starting?
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We still need two more players to start (and replacements would be nice, just in case). If it fills tonight, maybe as soon as at the time of the deadline tomorrow?
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Damn I wish I had made it in time. QQ /in as a replacement if someone drops
Edit (muahahahahahaha): /in as a player too if those last two names on the list are troll names >.>
Double Edit (harharharhar): Should update thread title.
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Woot.
When is this mysterious "deadline", and why is it the deadline?
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On June 26 2012 05:05 ghost_403 wrote:
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 22:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Im assuming its related to that deadline. But I could be wrong. Dead wrong. For crossing said line. Or something...
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Ah, yes, I'm blind, thanks.
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United States5162 Posts
On June 27 2012 06:51 Risen wrote:
Damn I wish I had made it in time. QQ /in as a replacement if someone drops
Edit (muahahahahahaha): /in as a player too if those last two names on the list are troll names >.>
Double Edit (harharharhar): Should update thread title.
You're already breaking the rules fool!
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If people volunteer for coaching, how does that traditionally work?
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/in
This is how I join, right?
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Ghost give my spot to Fencer please. I think there's too many people otherwise and I'm in another game anyways.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
Boom
we have a full set.
KT.FlaSh: 1a2a3a
KT.FlaSh: START YO!
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On June 27 2012 10:43 JingleHell wrote:
If people volunteer for coaching, how does that traditionally work?
When I played in a newbie game, each coach was given a few players each to look after. Not sure if that's still the case, though.
They are there to assist you with anything you're unsure of. They don't play the game for you and they won't find scum for you, but they can give you the tools to do so.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On June 27 2012 10:43 JingleHell wrote:
If people volunteer for coaching, how does that traditionally work?
mafia coach will usually be in mafia QT to answer any questions there.
townies can just PM a coach and ask for advice. I would strongly encourage you make use of it ^^
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@marv: For that comment, I'm adding you as a coach ^^ (if ya don't mind.)
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
I love me some Newbie games coaching ghost
They're fast becoming some of the best games on TL Mafia ^_^
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On June 27 2012 22:07 marvellosity wrote:I love me some Newbie games coaching ghost They're fast becoming some of the best games on TL Mafia ^_^
P.S. ghost - only if you spell my name correctly <3
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@risen: This is actually a newbie game. How many games you played here?
edit: Since the game is actually full of newbies, I'm not gonna let you sign up. But, you're not too far over the newbie line, so I'll put you down as replacement numero uno.
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@marv: xhrvd is going to be a coach for this game. I badly wanted to mispell his name in the OP, but I resisted.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
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@xsksc: Fine.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Correct my spelling damnit </3
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@marv: I thought I did the first time T_T
and fix'd.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
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marvellosity, will you coach me too? ♥
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I would also love to be coached by Mr. Marvel O'Citty.
Edit: Spelling
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Umlaut, you have to spell his name correctly if you want to be coached. He said so.
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On June 27 2012 22:49 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
There, I fixed it.
Not fixed. His name is marvellosity.
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On June 27 2012 22:49 Fencer710 wrote:
Also no editing!
You can edit in the pre and post game, just not during the game itself.
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On June 27 2012 22:49 Fencer710 wrote:
Also no editing!
The game hasn't started yet .
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now now gentlemen there is plenty of marv for everyone. pass him around like a peace pipe.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On June 27 2012 22:52 s0Lstice wrote:
now now gentlemen there is plenty of marv for everyone. pass him around like a peace pipe.
... this brings back memories.
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On June 27 2012 22:52 s0Lstice wrote:
now now gentlemen there is plenty of marv for everyone. pass him around like a peace pipe.
So we all take turns smoking his wood? He better be one awesome coach if he expects that.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
the rewards are great, my friend
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as heath ledger joker taught us....if you do something good, don't do it for free
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
I could have been charging all these years? damnit
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Actually, I think he was saying you have to be criminally insane to want to do it at all.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
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On June 27 2012 22:57 marvellosity wrote:
I could have been charging all these years? damnit
You can only charge if you do it better than your partner. And babe, nobody does like I do.
+ Show Spoiler +
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +i hope so or i'm on a totally different wavelength. you can have it for free then
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On June 27 2012 22:52 AmericanUmlaut wrote:The game hasn't started yet .
On June 27 2012 22:51 xsksc wrote:You can edit in the pre and post game, just not during the game itself.
Oh.
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On June 27 2012 23:22 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:52 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 27 2012 22:49 Fencer710 wrote:
Also no editing! The game hasn't started yet . Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:51 xsksc wrote:On June 27 2012 22:49 Fencer710 wrote:
Also no editing! You can edit in the pre and post game, just not during the game itself. Oh.
It's good to get in the habit of not editing now, though. Otherwise, it's easy to just do it without thinking.
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Since there are no more hamsters on that player list thing on the front page, I think it's almost time to go. This game will start in a bit over 24 hours. Role PMs should be out before 20:00 GMT (+00:00) tomorrow, and the game will start at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). Still looking for replacements, just in case.
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woohoo!
Stoked for this to start. Also don't mind me if I say something that is dumber than two rocks making love, I'm in two games at once and they are my first and second games so I make just fuck up royally and post here when I intend to post there. I hope you will forgive me if I am dumb.
I look forward to playing with all of you. Goodluck.
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On June 28 2012 08:43 Promethelax wrote:
woohoo!
Stoked for this to start. Also don't mind me if I say something that is dumber than two rocks making love, I'm in two games at once and they are my first and second games so I make just fuck up royally and post here when I intend to post there. I hope you will forgive me if I am dumb.
I look forward to playing with all of you. Goodluck.
Already preparing excuses for odd play, eh? Seems very scummy to me :-/
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On June 28 2012 14:20 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 08:43 Promethelax wrote:
woohoo!
Stoked for this to start. Also don't mind me if I say something that is dumber than two rocks making love, I'm in two games at once and they are my first and second games so I make just fuck up royally and post here when I intend to post there. I hope you will forgive me if I am dumb.
I look forward to playing with all of you. Goodluck. Already preparing excuses for odd play, eh? Seems very scummy to me :-/
PM's haven't been sent out yet, though.
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On June 28 2012 14:31 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 14:20 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 28 2012 08:43 Promethelax wrote:
woohoo!
Stoked for this to start. Also don't mind me if I say something that is dumber than two rocks making love, I'm in two games at once and they are my first and second games so I make just fuck up royally and post here when I intend to post there. I hope you will forgive me if I am dumb.
I look forward to playing with all of you. Goodluck. Already preparing excuses for odd play, eh? Seems very scummy to me :-/ PM's haven't been sent out yet, though.
He also really is in another game, as well.
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On June 28 2012 14:32 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 14:31 Fencer710 wrote:On June 28 2012 14:20 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 28 2012 08:43 Promethelax wrote:
woohoo!
Stoked for this to start. Also don't mind me if I say something that is dumber than two rocks making love, I'm in two games at once and they are my first and second games so I make just fuck up royally and post here when I intend to post there. I hope you will forgive me if I am dumb.
I look forward to playing with all of you. Goodluck. Already preparing excuses for odd play, eh? Seems very scummy to me :-/ PM's haven't been sent out yet, though. He also really is in another game, as well.
And you're defending him... Very suspicious.
+ Show Spoiler +Obviously I realize the game hasn't started yet. I'm attempting a complex maneuver referred to in some quarters as "humor"
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On June 28 2012 15:55 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 14:32 Fencer710 wrote:On June 28 2012 14:31 Fencer710 wrote:On June 28 2012 14:20 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 28 2012 08:43 Promethelax wrote:
woohoo!
Stoked for this to start. Also don't mind me if I say something that is dumber than two rocks making love, I'm in two games at once and they are my first and second games so I make just fuck up royally and post here when I intend to post there. I hope you will forgive me if I am dumb.
I look forward to playing with all of you. Goodluck. Already preparing excuses for odd play, eh? Seems very scummy to me :-/ PM's haven't been sent out yet, though. He also really is in another game, as well. And you're defending him... Very suspicious. + Show Spoiler +Obviously I realize the game hasn't started yet. I'm attempting a complex maneuver referred to in some quarters as "humor"
But the game hasn't started yet! :O
+ Show Spoiler +
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Lol, I'm such a derp. Saw the title of the thread crossed out and replaced with ABL so I /in'd XD
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haha my evil scummy plan has succeeded you are all talking about my play and not about scum hunting. Cower before me brief mortals.
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Promethelax, if you keep pretending to be scum, you're going to wake up with a hamster head in your bed.
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And an offer I can't refuse? Does it involve a human sized hamster ball and a life of captivity?
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On June 28 2012 22:29 Promethelax wrote:
And an offer I can't refuse? Does it involve a human sized hamster ball and a life of captivity?
That's just the one you don't want to refuse.
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This game is so easy, I already know who scum is.
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On June 28 2012 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
This game is so easy, I already know who scum is.
How the fuck did you know? I haven't even posted in the last few pages.
+ Show Spoiler +game was challenge, Artanis was challenger, he win eZgG
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Damn, and you just made me lose the game.
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This is newbier than I thought it would be.
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On June 28 2012 22:36 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
This game is so easy, I already know who scum is. How the fuck did you know? I haven't even posted in the last few pages.
Exactly.
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On June 28 2012 22:36 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
This game is so easy, I already know who scum is. How the fuck did you know? I haven't even posted in the last few pages. + Show Spoiler +game was challenge, Artanis was challenger, he win eZgG
Lynch all lurkers!
##Vote Anacletus
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Day 0 Votecount
Anacletus (1): xsksc
At the deadline, Anacletus to be lynched!
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##Vote BreadLord, king of the Hamsters
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4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
Also, BreadLord is pretty awesome, so I'm not gonna let you lynch him.
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On June 29 2012 00:05 ghost_403 wrote:
4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
Also, BreadLord is pretty awesome, so I'm not gonna let you lynch him.
I don't think that's would be an issue. Have you ever tried to lynch a breadlord? You'd barely get the rope around its neck before it wiped out the entire town.
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The game hasn't started, so everyone is outside the game right now.
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@jinglehell: That's a good point. I'm going to allow this, but only because I think BreadLord will maul you before he manages to get lynched.
Day 0 Votecount
Anacletus (1): xsksc
BreadLord (1): JingleHell
At the deadline, it's a tie so who knows what's gonna happen!
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##Vote TheToast, the BreadLord
You realize TheToast is the BreadLord, right?
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##BURN: The lynching rope
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On June 29 2012 00:48 Fencer710 wrote:
##Vote TheToast, the BreadLord
You realize TheToast is the BreadLord, right?
Of course I know TheToast is the BreadLord. We really need to discuss policy, though. I'm thinking Bread Puns>Scum>Liar>Lurker.
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##Break Game Rules
##Vote Ghost_403, twice.
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##timetravel: Day -1
##nuke: artanis[xp]
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BREAKING NEWS![[image loading]](http://download.gamezone.com/uploads/image/data/870051/nuke.jpg) Artanis was nuked. In the past. Before he broke the game. Or something.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
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Why do I get the feeling this game is going to be... bizarre?
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O.O
What are you all doing...
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
On June 29 2012 01:14 TheToast wrote:
O.O
What are you all doing...
![[image loading]](http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/341/i-dunno-lol_1_.jpg)
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
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OMG this is just like the ABL.
Except instead of Bread and Hamsters, it's Nukes and Memes.
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*sigh*
Well, just get it all out of your systems before the game starts...
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
u do realize this is the ABL mafia game right?
of course its gonna be like the ABL
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On June 29 2012 01:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
u do realize this is the ABL mafia game right?
of course its gonna be like the ABL
You can have fun, but during the game you are expected to play to win. That means you take it seriously and do the best to help your side, whichever that may be.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
of course when we start the game we will be playing the game but for now i'm gonna dick around.
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On June 29 2012 01:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
u do realize this is the ABL mafia game right?
of course its gonna be like the ABL
10 pages of off-topic for every 1 page scumhunting?
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On June 29 2012 02:39 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 01:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
u do realize this is the ABL mafia game right?
of course its gonna be like the ABL 10 pages of off-topic for every 1 page scumhunting?
That's why we'll have a policy lynch on OT posts.
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I think I'm going to want the observer qt on this one, if there is one. Should be interesting.
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Alright, time to start sending out the role PMs. I'll now request that there be silence in the thread between all of the players until the game officially begins at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). Anyone interesting in observing the game, PM me or theToast, and we'll give you a link.
All players, good luck and have fun!
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It’s a quiet Saturday morning, early yet. The sun has just barely cleared the horizon, its light still weak and new. Most of the city has yet to stir from their beds, still slumbering away. The street below TL Headquarters is quiet, only the familiar sounds of the early risers; a car horn in the distance, the gentle rumble of car engines, a few birds chirping their early morning sounds.
Yet amongst the usual parked cars sits a strange unmarked red van. It would be almost unnoticeable if not for the small dish style antenna on the top, pointed directly at TL HQ. Inside the back of the van sat a man, hunched over a keyboard. The van’s windows were blacked out, and a small curtain shielded the man from eyes prying in through the windshield. The only light came from the soft bluish glow of the computer monitors, the only sounds from the soft hum of the computer and the light tapping of the keyboard. The monitors were filled with lines of complex code, scrolling endlessly down and the man feverishly typed new lines.
About 100 feet behind the van sat another vehicle, a blue sedan, nondescript and inconspicuous. In the driver’s seat of the sedan seat sat another man, this one tougher and most intense then the first He wore large dark aviators, and a dark leather jacket like a cop out of some 70s crime drama. His face was stone, cold and expressionless, shifting only to take an occasional sip of a dark black coffee from a small Styrofoam cup. On the passenger’s seat next to him sat a laptop, the screen taken up by several large scrolling graphs, each monitoring some type of network traffic. The man sat for what seems like a lifetime, waiting, staring intently at the van.
Inside TL HQ all was completely quiet, completely still. Suddenly the serenity was broken by a loud beep from the TL main computer. The black screen snapped on to reveal a large flashing message: “Network Intruder Detected”. The computer again beeped loudly. Then again. But no one heard it, there was no one there. The entire TL staff had been called away the night before after receiving and urgent message from Nazgul concerning a TLO beard emergency. It would be another 6 hours before they would realize it was a fake, a wild goose chase meant to distract them.
But the man in the sedan wasn’t distracted; he glanced at his laptop and realized instantly what was going on. He quickly sent a text message from his phone and reached into the glove box, his hand emerged clutching a large black .45 revolver. He leapt from the car and raced towards the van, grapping the back door and throwing it open. The man inside looked up, surprised. “ghost_403!! How did you find me!?” The other man responded sharply, “It’s all over TheToast! I know about your plan to take over TL, and the cops are on their way.” The distant wailing of several police sirens could be heard.
TheToast’s eyes darted quickly to his computer monitor and back to ghost_403. “Really…” TheToast said slyly. In a flash his hands flung to the keyboard and typed out a short line of code. “Back away!” ghost_403 yelled, shoving the revolver into TheToast’s face. “It’s too late.” TheToast gloated. “I’ve just deleted you. Your TL account, every post, everything. It’s all gone. It’s like you never existed”.
ghost_403 was stunned. “What?! No! Damn you Toast! Well, at least I stopped you before it was too late!” The squad cars arrived, and the police began hand cuffing TheToast. As they were taking him away, TheToast turned to ghost_403. “Did you really think I was working alone ghost?! Hahaha! No, I recruited every lousy poster and banned user I could find to help me. Even now their working to undermine TL’s staff. We’ll succeed yet in taking over TL and liberating it from the Nazi mods! You’ll see Hahahahah!”
TheToast continued laughing ominously as the squad car pulled away, leaving ghost_403 standing all alone in the street, wondering if the other members of the conspiracy can be found before it’s too late…
TheToast, the 1337 hacker has been arrested!
ghost_403 the brilliant ABL poster has been deleted from existence!
Newbie Mini Mafia XIXThe Automated Ban List Mini Mafia game has begun! You have 48 hours to decide who among you is a member of the conspiracy. Good luck, and godspeed.
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Hello, my dear fellows. It seems vile posting has started rampaging, and we must seek out those in need of report, and get them banned! These scum hide amongst us, posting, vilifying our own, seeking to cause mayhem on our beloved board!
So, my friends, we shall dig through the evidence, seek them out, find them, and BAN them. If we can not get rid of these terrible posters, we'll be in a jam! Don't let them butter you up, see them for who they truly are. Feed them to the almighty hamsters, BANS FOR THE BANGOD!
I suggest we discuss policy. Specifically, we should avoid being too careless with policy. Trying to mindlessly do things a specific way will play right into the trolls hands. As soon as we have a written plan, with them lurking amidst our numbers, they can begin to fight back, by seeking to exploit that plan. Hence, I suggest that we treat each day's banning as it's own entity. Look for those causing the most trouble, and seek out the truly trash posters.
No patterns, no regrets. If you have a case to make against someone, make it, without fear of some "policy" making your case easier to manipulate by the scum amongst us. Some will seek the shadows, others the light. Not all shit posting is created equally! There may be a failsafe, or there may be a TI. We can not know, so we can not falter in our quest to offer blood and obeisance to the bangods!
ALL HAIL THE HAMSTERS!
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EBWOP eww, formatting died in the C/P, I truly apologize. Less painful one inside spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +
Hello, my dear fellows. It seems vile posting has started rampaging, and we must seek out those in need of report, and get them banned! These scum hide amongst us, posting, vilifying our own, seeking to cause mayhem on our beloved board!
So, my friends, we shall dig through the evidence, seek them out, find them, and BAN them. If we can not get rid of these terrible posters, we'll be in a jam! Don't let them butter you up, see them for who they truly are. Feed them to the almighty hamsters, BANS FOR THE BANGOD!
I suggest we discuss policy. Specifically, we should avoid being too careless with policy. Trying to mindlessly do things a specific way will play right into the trolls hands. As soon as we have a written plan, with them lurking amidst our numbers, they can begin to fight back, by seeking to exploit that plan. Hence, I suggest that we treat each day's banning as it's own entity. Look for those causing the most trouble, and seek out the truly trash posters.
No patterns, no regrets. If you have a case to make against someone, make it, without fear of some "policy" making your case easier to manipulate by the scum amongst us. Some will seek the shadows, others the light. Not all shit posting is created equally! There may be a failsafe, or there may be a TI. We can not know, so we can not falter in our quest to offer blood and obeisance to the bangods!
ALL HAIL THE HAMSTERS!
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Is there a 3rd Party Planar Dragon?
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On June 29 2012 06:10 blubbdavid wrote:
Is there a 3rd Party Planar Dragon?
Right here. Hi.
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On June 29 2012 06:26 Anacletus wrote:Right here. Hi.
What is a 3rd Party Planar Dragon? I sort of want to be that role...pew pew
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Well, good thing nobody is pushing lynch all lurkers right now, since when does the Automated Spam List patronage not talk for this long?
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On June 29 2012 06:36 JingleHell wrote:
Well, good thing nobody is pushing lynch all lurkers right now, since when does the Automated Spam List patronage not talk for this long?
Someone called me?
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We need to find out who is working with them... Who's going to throw out a name first?
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On June 29 2012 06:26 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 06:26 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 06:10 blubbdavid wrote:
Is there a 3rd Party Planar Dragon? Right here. Hi. What is a 3rd Party Planar Dragon? I sort of want to be that role...pew pew
That would be pretty filthy...
Is there a 3rd Party Planar Dragon?
I hope the dragon doesn't eat hamsters
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No, there are no 3rd Party Planar Dragons in this game. They cost too much.
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So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post!
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On June 29 2012 06:48 JingleHell wrote:
So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post!
Bah, you always know how to hit me where it hurts! I regrettably admit to taking a rusted bike chain and strangling the sheriff. But if there's one thing that I didn't do, I didn't shoot the god damn deputy.
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On June 29 2012 06:08 marttorn wrote:
That's not suspicious at all...
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United States5162 Posts
JingleHell, you sure are yippity. And creating quite the distraction...
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On June 29 2012 07:05 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 06:48 JingleHell wrote:
So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post! Bah, you always know how to hit me where it hurts! I regrettably admit to taking a rusted bike chain and strangling the sheriff. But if there's one thing that I didn't do, I didn't shoot the god damn deputy.
See, that's the sort of thing that makes me wonder more seriously. You could easily be trying to pre-establish an alibi for any scum behavior. You let me take the lead, but when I started pushing for participation, you jumped in with a weak suggestion, and now this. It's obviously rather weak as far as tells go, but it's more than I have on any of the people who aren't posting.
And Myles, what could I possibly be distracting from at this point? I'm the only one wanting to find these scum and get rid of them. Anacletus suggested we just start hunting, so I started hunting. If you want to contribute, maybe you should chime in on policy, or announce yourself, or do basically anything besides a low content post that won't help the situation.
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On June 29 2012 07:10 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:05 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 06:48 JingleHell wrote:
So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post! Bah, you always know how to hit me where it hurts! I regrettably admit to taking a rusted bike chain and strangling the sheriff. But if there's one thing that I didn't do, I didn't shoot the god damn deputy. See, that's the sort of thing that makes me wonder more seriously. You could easily be trying to pre-establish an alibi for any scum behavior. You let me take the lead, but when I started pushing for participation, you jumped in with a weak suggestion, and now this. It's obviously rather weak as far as tells go, but it's more than I have on any of the people who aren't posting. And Myles, what could I possibly be distracting from at this point? I'm the only one wanting to find these scum and get rid of them. Anacletus suggested we just start hunting, so I started hunting. If you want to contribute, maybe you should chime in on policy, or announce yourself, or do basically anything besides a low content post that won't help the situation.
JingleHell makes some extremely valid points.
Myles, why are you suddenly trying to defend me? Are you trying to set up and alibi for yourself for if I get killed and turn town?
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United States5162 Posts
On June 29 2012 07:12 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 07:05 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 06:48 JingleHell wrote:
So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post! Bah, you always know how to hit me where it hurts! I regrettably admit to taking a rusted bike chain and strangling the sheriff. But if there's one thing that I didn't do, I didn't shoot the god damn deputy. See, that's the sort of thing that makes me wonder more seriously. You could easily be trying to pre-establish an alibi for any scum behavior. You let me take the lead, but when I started pushing for participation, you jumped in with a weak suggestion, and now this. It's obviously rather weak as far as tells go, but it's more than I have on any of the people who aren't posting. And Myles, what could I possibly be distracting from at this point? I'm the only one wanting to find these scum and get rid of them. Anacletus suggested we just start hunting, so I started hunting. If you want to contribute, maybe you should chime in on policy, or announce yourself, or do basically anything besides a low content post that won't help the situation. JingleHell makes some extremely valid points. Myles, why are you suddenly trying to defend me? Are you trying to set up and alibi for yourself for if I get killed and turn town?
Not really defending you, just wondering why he's taking such a lead when we have nothing to go on. Starting a witch hunt is only going to get innocent people killed me thinks. Also, when did you suggest we start hunting?
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Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board?
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Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum.
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EBWOP, errr, Hopeless1der, not Myles.
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United States5162 Posts
I was going to say...
And don't people have to post anyways? Are we going to say anyone who makes small or meaningless posts is a lurker?
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On June 29 2012 07:17 Myles wrote:
Not really defending you, just wondering why he's taking such a lead when we have nothing to go on. Starting a witch hunt is only going to get innocent people killed me thinks. Also, when did you suggest we start hunting?
If nobody takes a lead when we have nothing to go on, we'll never have anything to go on.
The entire purpose of this is to witch hunt in such a way that we eventually flush the scum.
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And just in case people decide to show up, and start trying to take my lack of posts as suspicious, I'll be leaving in a bit for TKD.
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United States5162 Posts
How do you witch hunt in way that flushes out the actual scum? I think we need to be a little more deliberate here.
This is a semi-open setup. You will know which roles may appear in the game but not the number. Well, there is at least one vanilla townie. But that's all you know.
When I interpret to mean that there can be more than one Heyoka or Complete Asshole and that there might be multiple roles not filled, am I correct?
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United States8476 Posts
Good thing monk isn't a role.
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On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum.
Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on.
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Well, Myles, if you have a suggestion for flushing the scum with people not talking until we have something to go on, feel free to elaborate on that plan. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with the established method of getting people talking enough that we either get something to work with, or at least get enough people active to be physically capable of lynching anybody.
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United States5162 Posts
I think getting people to talk is a good idea, and if a witch hunt is the only way to that than so be it. And I don't really have a better idea, so witch hunt it is I guess.
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On June 29 2012 07:32 JingleHell wrote:
And just in case people decide to show up, and start trying to take my lack of posts as suspicious, I'll be leaving in a bit for TKD.
On June 29 2012 07:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Myles, if you have a suggestion for flushing the scum with people not talking until we have something to go on, feel free to elaborate on that plan. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with the established method of getting people talking enough that we either get something to work with, or at least get enough people active to be physically capable of lynching anybody.
Aha! That's what we're looking for you lieing...Or maybe 10 minutes counts as a bit...Whatevs, Not a big deal. I do probably need to read better though. Everyone else needs to hurry up and get in here, im freaking out man.
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On June 29 2012 07:35 Myles wrote:How do you witch hunt in way that flushes out the actual scum? I think we need to be a little more deliberate here. Show nested quote +This is a semi-open setup. You will know which roles may appear in the game but not the number. Well, there is at least one vanilla townie. But that's all you know. When I interpret to mean that there can be more than one Heyoka or Complete Asshole and that there might be multiple roles not filled, am I correct?
Yep
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It appears that we have a few late risers, I wonder when they are going to decide to get up and talk. Also I think we should start blaming people in REVERSE alphabetical order as to mix it up a bit and not fall into the regular way of doing things.
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I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started.
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On June 29 2012 07:38 NrGmonk wrote:
Good thing monk isn't a role.
man, if it was all the scum would be banned already.
Hey guys sorry I wasn't here when the game started, I'm not a late riser. I just got off work.
I think it is a great idea to scum-hunt, we should do it with gusto and aplomb however a lurker lynch is always doable since this is turn one and we have the least knowledge that we will have all game since our blues haven't done anything yet and scum hasn't even tried to make a kill. Scum can still hide in the shadows so, if we don't have any better leads a shot into the shadows will give us a chance at least.
I'll be here for the next hour or so and hopefully we can start some real discussion.
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United States5162 Posts
On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started.
I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people.
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On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people.
I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason.
Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case.
We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power.
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On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power.
I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum!
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On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power.
Im not claiming he is scum, I'm simply pointing out the observations I've made- And I felt like the ball had to get rolling.
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On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum!
Oh, well in that case lets lynch him!+ Show Spoiler +
What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on.
Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from.
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My username hates any type of random or chaotic thinking. When we lynch someone it must be for a thought out reason. Only a logical well thought out reasoning will gain my vote.
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What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound.
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United States8476 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound.
Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O
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United States5162 Posts
Actually, the fact that Anacletus has made 1 serious post out of 5 since the game started is somewhat suspicious to me as well.
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On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O
You seem scummy for calling him scummy.
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On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy.
Now this isn't going anywhere..
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On June 29 2012 10:05 Intact wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. Now this isn't going anywhere..
Which is exactly what a scum would be hoping for. A visible post that doesn't progress things.
That originally joking FoS Anacletus is starting to look serious, rather than just a vital conversation starter.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
On June 29 2012 07:38 NrGmonk wrote:
Good thing monk isn't a role.
i don't even know what role you'd fill.
Before actually following any sort of policy we need to get people to talk, otherwise we'd be pointing fingers but nothing is going to happen.
the fact that JingleHell is going by randomly pointing fingers at people by their username proves that.
we need to get people talking.
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Yeah, this is getting ridiculous. Come on people, the ABL has recently had complaints about none of us ever shutting up. Get us somewhere where that can be a virtue, and suddenly it ceases to be the case?
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On June 29 2012 11:06 JingleHell wrote:
Yeah, this is getting ridiculous. Come on people, the ABL has recently had complaints about none of us ever shutting up. Get us somewhere where that can be a virtue, and suddenly it ceases to be the case?
What are you talking about? I am ultra-analyzing every post and even bought a composition notebook to keep track of this game. As of right now I have 8 pages filled out and several complete profiles made.
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i have one post-it note and a small whiteboard. =p
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I'm using a computer, as evidenced by the whole forum thing, and have unlimited .txt docs, a ton of HDD space, and the ability to copy/paste. I win note taking. Now can we please stay relevant? Maybe discuss suspicions, policy, something along those lines?
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Anacletus, since you didn't answer me earlier I have to assume that you missed my post. What do your notes say? The only reason to hide your reads from us is because you are scum. We, as town, have to win as a collective and that means sharing information. Share your reads with us.
This post: "What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony." by JingleHell's name really worries me, he seems to content to kill off someone else for 'the irony' which can only be considered scummy. We need to go after someone, not because it is funny but, because it helps town win. Going after Monk without proof is going against Town's win condition. I don't know if JH is scum but that post seems particularly scummy and I'm not the only one to notice it.
In fact just after making that post claiming that we should kill someone just for shits and gigs JH has continued to fill the thread with nonsense, it seems to me that he knows exactly what he is doing too, On June 29 2012 10:06 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 10:05 Intact wrote:On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. Now this isn't going anywhere.. Which is exactly what a scum would be hoping for. A visible post that doesn't progress things.
That originally joking FoS Anacletus is starting to look serious, rather than just a vital conversation starter.
See that there? He knows that shitting up the thread benefits Mafia but has done it anyway with these joke votes waiting for one to stick. I think that if one had stuck, as he is trying to make his 'scumread' on Anacletus stick he would follow it through to kill a townie. I think that JH is playing a scummy game and its time we showed him that it isn't that easy to push town around and mislead us. I think JH is probably scum based on his play so far, what do you say?
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I've only made a few joke posts. There are just as many reaction posts to my jokes as there was joke posts.
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so.
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Your read might make sense, Promethelax, if not for the fact that I'm still trying to get people to actually talk enough that we can have something to make reads with.
I totally see how you could grab a "scum" feel from what I've said so far, but right now I just want people out of their shells, posting, discussing policy, or basically doing anything. Doing something semi-useless is far more productive than doing nothing whatsoever.
And, let's face it. If we try to lynch everyone who's made a non-productive post so far, we'd definitely get a grab bag of town, even if we didn't get any scum at all, based on the numbers.
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On June 29 2012 11:39 Promethelax wrote:Anacletus, since you didn't answer me earlier I have to assume that you missed my post. What do your notes say? The only reason to hide your reads from us is because you are scum. We, as town, have to win as a collective and that means sharing information. Share your reads with us. This post: "What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony." by JingleHell's name really worries me, he seems to content to kill off someone else for 'the irony' which can only be considered scummy. We need to go after someone, not because it is funny but, because it helps town win. Going after Monk without proof is going against Town's win condition. I don't know if JH is scum but that post seems particularly scummy and I'm not the only one to notice it. In fact just after making that post claiming that we should kill someone just for shits and gigs JH has continued to fill the thread with nonsense, it seems to me that he knows exactly what he is doing too, Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 10:06 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 10:05 Intact wrote:On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. Now this isn't going anywhere.. Which is exactly what a scum would be hoping for. A visible post that doesn't progress things.
That originally joking FoS Anacletus is starting to look serious, rather than just a vital conversation starter. See that there? He knows that shitting up the thread benefits Mafia but has done it anyway with these joke votes waiting for one to stick. I think that if one had stuck, as he is trying to make his 'scumread' on Anacletus stick he would follow it through to kill a townie. I think that JH is playing a scummy game and its time we showed him that it isn't that easy to push town around and mislead us. I think JH is probably scum based on his play so far, what do you say?
Im not understanding your logic just because some one said we should lynch someone means hes mafia? What else are we supposed to do at this point in the game we have zero information besides cryptic bantering. I dont think any value can be put into what someone says on the first day.
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Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying
On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so.
Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere...
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On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere...
I'm not actively refusing to participate.
I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads.
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On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads.
This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors.
I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now.
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On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now.
Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules.
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United States5162 Posts
I'm going to bed and have work in the morning so now don't anybody freak out if I don't post for 12 hours or so. But my thoughts on Anacletus are at the top of the page and he hasn't done anything to lesson that.
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On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules.
He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us.
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On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us.
From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro!
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On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum. + Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro!
We can't make "town does x, scum does y" generalizations, though, especially on D1. Both sides can know the meta game, so we have to start everyone on a blank slate.
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On June 29 2012 12:20 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum. + Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! We can't make "town does x, scum does y" generalizations, though, especially on D1. Both sides can know the meta game, so we have to start everyone on a blank slate.
Yeah that's true. I could be meta-gaming incredibly hard right now.
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On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro!
While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else?
If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum.
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On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155
If you actually thought that this was true...
I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie.
I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes.
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I'm off to bed, try and get people posting.
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AmericanUmlaut and Fencer710 have yet to post since day1 began. Who cares? I don't know yet, since no one will finish discussing anything, be it policy or reads. Evil scum and their damned runaround tactics.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
so far here my reads,
JingleHell: I'm leaning toward town, actively taking an interest to know where people are at, yet being extremely aggressive on scum hunting considering the amount of activity on the thread.
Analectus: for the most part not sharing reads isn't cool even for the the lack of activity and joking around doesn't help get a good read on him either....Leaning towards scum.
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On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes.
You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made.
You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts.
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On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts.
I already said that from what I've seen the mafia is generally extremely passive the first day, so my general thoughts on Jingle is that he is a townie.
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On June 29 2012 13:01 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying
[quote]
Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. I already said that from what I've seen the mafia is generally extremely passive the first day, so my general thoughts on Jingle is that he is a townie.
Okay, how about the other 10 players? Do you have any reads?
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EBWOP ...any other reads?
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On June 29 2012 13:04 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 13:01 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:
[quote]
I'm not actively refusing to participate.
I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. I already said that from what I've seen the mafia is generally extremely passive the first day, so my general thoughts on Jingle is that he is a townie. Okay, how about the other 10 players? Do you have any reads?
Do you have any reads on them >_> ?
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On June 29 2012 13:05 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 13:04 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 13:01 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:
[quote]
This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors.
I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. I already said that from what I've seen the mafia is generally extremely passive the first day, so my general thoughts on Jingle is that he is a townie. Okay, how about the other 10 players? Do you have any reads? Do you have any reads on them >_> ?
You have said some things that make me uncomfortable, Fencer and Umlat are useless, BlindRawr hasn't said much but he has used a lot of words to say it and otherwise no, I'm in the dark. I just want to have something from you, it is weird to me that you have played before, posted so much and don't have even a single guess that you want to share with town.
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On June 29 2012 13:01 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying
[quote]
Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. I already said that from what I've seen the mafia is generally extremely passive the first day, so my general thoughts on Jingle is that he is a townie.
So by that logic filter AmericanUmlaut and Fencer710 are definatly mafia. I dont buy the passive argument its only been a few hours they could just be busy hell they might not have even opened their pms with their role yet.
since the only information we have is the ramblings my top 2 right now are ancaletus and promethelax but i wouldnt put much stock in either right now.
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On June 29 2012 13:13 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 13:01 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:
[quote]
I'm not actively refusing to participate.
I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. I already said that from what I've seen the mafia is generally extremely passive the first day, so my general thoughts on Jingle is that he is a townie. So by that logic filter AmericanUmlaut and Fencer710 are definatly mafia. I dont buy the passive argument its only been a few hours they could just be busy hell they might not have even opened their pms with their role yet. since the only information we have is the ramblings my top 2 right now are ancaletus and promethelax but i wouldnt put much stock in either right now.
I don't see why scumhunting is a scum activity, I'll just sit here and scratch my head until someone can tell me.
perfection: I'd love to hear your reasoning for your town reads at least. Remember, if you are town you help us by explaining your reads and your reasoning, if you are scum you better post those reads anyway or we'll know.
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Sorry that I'm late to the party, I did in fact just get my role PM. Yesterday was the Germany vs Italy game, and I spent the whole evening barbecuing and watching the game.
I've caught up with the game so far. My thoughts are as follows:
- Anacletus stinks. Just the post claiming that he's got reads that he's not open to sharing with the rest of us is scummy as hell. There's no reason your "best interest" should be served ahead of that of the town by refusing to share information with others.
- JH is hard to read because he's just straight up chaotic. I have a vague memory that he was in the other TL mafia game I played and behaved similarly; I'll have to go dig that game up and see if I can find anything useful there to get a better read on him. My guess, though, based on the way he posts in the ABL, is that he's just like that.
- On policy, I agree that policy lynching lurkers doesn't look ideal at the moment, but I still feel like it's a reasonable approach. If that's not our policy, then mafia know that they can just chill and respond with an easy "me too" once a day or so. Anyone who's not actively contributing to the hunt is helping the mafia, regardless of how they flip in the end; I say lynch them, we're never going to find all the scum if we foster a culture in which everyone doesn't have to post.
- A second policy suggestion: Anyone who posts a lie should be immediately considered scum. There are valid strategic reasons to lie as town in some situations, but our job as town is to determine the truth, and in the vast majority of situations, misinformation helps only the mafia.
My inclinations at the moment for a first lynch are either Anacletus or Fencer. My read on Anacletus feels a bit tenuous, but it's the only scummy read I've got based on the meager offerings the thread has presented so far. I'd give Fencer a bit more time to get in here and explain his absense, but he's in the States according to his profile, so he's basically had a full day to post.
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Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\
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On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\
No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters.
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On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters.
shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.
I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so:
- Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot.
-Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well.
I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\
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Ah I've found something!On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. This may suggest that both Anacletus and Jinglehell may both be mafia. Jinglehell points his finger at Monk after pointing it at Anacletus, then Anacletus points it at Jinglehell.
For some reason I can't say exactly why it makes me tick, but it does.
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EBWOP: Pinpoint, not say exactly why.
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EBWOP: I'm still not making sense to myself. Let me reword this sentence again:
For some reason I can't say exactly why it makes me tick, but it does.
For some reason I can't pinpoint why it makes me suspicious, but it does.
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On June 29 2012 18:51 Fencer710 wrote:Ah I've found something! Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. This may suggest that both Anacletus and Jinglehell may both be mafia. Jinglehell points his finger at Monk after pointing it at Anacletus, then Anacletus points it at Jinglehell. For some reason I can't say exactly why it makes me tick, but it does.
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion.
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On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:51 Fencer710 wrote:Ah I've found something! On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. This may suggest that both Anacletus and Jinglehell may both be mafia. Jinglehell points his finger at Monk after pointing it at Anacletus, then Anacletus points it at Jinglehell. For some reason I can't say exactly why it makes me tick, but it does. I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion.
It seems like a reasonable gambit. It's early game, so there's not a huge amount of information to go off of, which means you can accuse someone on pretty flimsy evidence without seeming suspicious but also without really having a huge chance of getting your fellow scum lynched. Later, though, if one of the two does get lynched, when they flip red the other can point to his early game accusation as evidence that he's town.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
yes I do see that their argument seems lacking but that is also because analectus seems be quite uncooperative with Jingle therefore the argument itself seems to be quite pointless.
Intact, any reads so far?
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On June 29 2012 20:30 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:On June 29 2012 18:51 Fencer710 wrote:Ah I've found something! On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. This may suggest that both Anacletus and Jinglehell may both be mafia. Jinglehell points his finger at Monk after pointing it at Anacletus, then Anacletus points it at Jinglehell. For some reason I can't say exactly why it makes me tick, but it does. I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. It seems like a reasonable gambit. It's early game, so there's not a huge amount of information to go off of, which means you can accuse someone on pretty flimsy evidence without seeming suspicious but also without really having a huge chance of getting your fellow scum lynched. Later, though, if one of the two does get lynched, when they flip red the other can point to his early game accusation as evidence that he's town. So in the end, we can't draw accusations based on that.
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United States5162 Posts
Considering this is my first game, I hadn't put any thought into the idea that JH and Anacletus working together to create misinformation. Though, one of my first instincts when JH took the lead, but didn't really send us in any particular direction other than witch hunts and suggested we not take a very defined course of action, was that it seemed like he was trying to look like he was contributing without really doing so.
I see Anacletus in a similar vein. That 6 out of his first 7 posts were jokes threw up red flags for me, and though his latest posts have been relevant and worthwhile for the most part, I'm still a bit leery.
As for lurkers, Monk has posted twice, once to defend himself from JH random accusations. BobTheLob has posted twice, neither time saying too much. Blind-Rawr hasn't posted much either, but his posts have been pretty good. Besides that, everyone else has been pretty active.
Now back to work.
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Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players.
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On June 29 2012 20:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
yes I do see that their argument seems lacking but that is also because analectus seems be quite uncooperative with Jingle therefore the argument itself seems to be quite pointless.
Intact, any reads so far?
My first guess was Myles, however he is no longer on top of the list(although I will keep an eye on him). I'm leaning mostly towards Analectus, his posts contain very little of value and seems more like a way to avoid being branded a lurker. And like I said before I have seen scum play that is similar to what JH and Analectus is doing.
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900th post!
When voting, do I have to put only my vote into the post where I vote? Did I vote correctly?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting.
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On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting.
Oh, fine.
How do I 'unvote'?On June 29 2012 21:45 Fencer710 wrote:
900th post!
When voting, do I have to put only my vote into the post where I vote? Did I vote correctly?
By "Did I vote correctly?" I meant "Did I format and post my vote correctly?"
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@fencer: Yep, your vote looks fine.
If anyone would like to unvote, post ##unvote in the thread
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Just woke up, people, and I must say, it's good to see actual discussion going on. Since people seem to think I'm chaotic at the moment, allow me to try to explain a simple concept. If nobody is talking, we can't kill scum. Someone had to pull everybody out of their shells, and in this case, it was me.
If you go back to my very first posts, I'm not saying we should scrap all policy, I'm just saying let's be prepared to take cases individually, rather than hoping some blind set of policy works to crush all of our scum.
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Everyone's posted in thread! Wut!
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Im torn between fencer and anceltus. I dont like the way fencer tried to bandwagon onto someone elses logic. On anceltus i dont really know i think he just posts a lot and he kind of clamed up when some of the suspicion came up. Im leaning more twoards fencer but im new at this so i will wait for more of discussion before casting my vote.
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On June 29 2012 22:17 iamperfection wrote:
Im torn between fencer and anceltus. I dont like the way fencer tried to bandwagon onto someone elses logic. On anceltus i dont really know i think he just posts a lot and he kind of clamed up when some of the suspicion came up. Im leaning more twoards fencer but im new at this so i will wait for more of discussion before casting my vote. Sorry my views are the same as Umlaut's, and he can say them much better than I can, AND he posted before I was even awake.
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On June 29 2012 22:28 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:17 iamperfection wrote:
Im torn between fencer and anceltus. I dont like the way fencer tried to bandwagon onto someone elses logic. On anceltus i dont really know i think he just posts a lot and he kind of clamed up when some of the suspicion came up. Im leaning more twoards fencer but im new at this so i will wait for more of discussion before casting my vote. Sorry my views are the same as Umlaut's, and he can say them much better than I can, AND he posted before I was even awake.
My proof here is that I'm posting at 6:28 AM pacific time, and many times during the night before. Check my post history.
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On June 29 2012 22:29 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:28 Fencer710 wrote:On June 29 2012 22:17 iamperfection wrote:
Im torn between fencer and anceltus. I dont like the way fencer tried to bandwagon onto someone elses logic. On anceltus i dont really know i think he just posts a lot and he kind of clamed up when some of the suspicion came up. Im leaning more twoards fencer but im new at this so i will wait for more of discussion before casting my vote. Sorry my views are the same as Umlaut's, and he can say them much better than I can, AND he posted before I was even awake. My proof here is that I'm posting at 6:28 AM pacific time, and many times during the night before. Check my post history.
I dont understand what you are trying to prove? Once the game started you did latch onto another opinion. Even if you were "asleep" you still latched on.
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My point is that unfortunately for me, my opinion is the same as Umlaut's and I appeared as a lurker, and that there was no way to pretend otherwise. Would you rather I have said something else to not appear as scum? :/
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EBWOP: I mean, posted a different opinion.
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I know that the day is still young, but I think that it's in the best interests of town that everyone be forced to express an opinion and back it up. I suggest that everyone cast a vote, and that we continue the discussion using those votes as a basis. Votes aren't binding for quite a while yet, but
##Vote Analectus
I've explained my thinking above, and Analectus has done nothing to defend himself. Fencer could be scum, or he could just be bad (I'm leaning toward the latter; the mafia have a chat room of their own, and I can't imagine no one would have stopped him posting like this by now), either way we can ignore him for the time being.
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On June 29 2012 23:30 Fencer710 wrote:
##Vote Anacletus
This was posted while I was writing my above post. Fencer, can you explain why your every action appears to be a bandwagon in whatever direction you think town opinion might be swinging?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
##Vote Analectus
going with what little we have, hes been the most scummy so far.
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On June 29 2012 23:36 AmericanUmlaut wrote:This was posted while I was writing my above post. Fencer, can you explain why your every action appears to be a bandwagon in whatever direction you think town opinion might be swinging?
To clarify what I'm getting at: Fencer posted nothing for 20 minutes, then the instant someone cast a vote he jumped in and agreed with it. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
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Anacletus makes me edgy right now, but I can't justify a vote on him quite yet. I don't like the idea of policy lynching, in particular, since it's something the scum can work with.
AmericanUmlaut is also making me a touch nervous, because he's leaning in the direction of getting early bandwagon votes on someone, and trying to make it sound like a justifiable policy, and leaving room to get a scapegoat if Anacletus is mislynched.
FoS AmericanUmlaut
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I'm not trying to create a policy, or encourage bandwagoning; I'm trying to encourage people to cast a vote so that we can force people to put their thoughts on the table. Without people voting and explaining their votes, it's very difficult to have a basis for getting solid reads on people.
What's FoS, by the way? I'm not familiar with that.
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Finger of Suspicion. It's like saying "I'm watchin you".
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On June 29 2012 23:36 AmericanUmlaut wrote:This was posted while I was writing my above post. Fencer, can you explain why your every action appears to be a bandwagon in whatever direction you think town opinion might be swinging?
Because I'm bad and this situation, or anything like it, isn't listed/covered in the General Guide to Mafia.
Since my stance is very precarious at the moment, I was scared to vote. I need to be more bold in the future.
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OP says that we're playing on a 48-hour day cycle. Does that mean 48 hours per day, or do we only have 24 hours per day?
Asking because I was assuming we had two days to come to our conclusions, but if days are only 24 hours long we've only got another six and a half hours.
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48hrs for the Day portion of the cycle, and 24hrs for the Night portion. Currently ~30hrs until the end of Day 1.
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United States8476 Posts
On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum!
I'm not too familiar with this game, so is this normal, or plausible, or is this just a joke?
Just to clarify, from his new posts, I don't think JH was trying to instigate chaos but rather was doing a good job inciting discussion. It was partly due to his comments that we've gotten this far.
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On June 30 2012 00:58 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! I'm not too familiar with this game, so is this normal, or plausible, or is this just a joke? Just to clarify, from his new posts, I don't think JH was trying to instigate chaos but rather was doing a good job inciting discussion. It was partly due to his comments that we've gotten this far.
I think its pretty obvious its a joke.......
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United States8476 Posts
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I thought he was serious, too. :/
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EBWOP: At least until someone pointed out it was a joke.
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United States5162 Posts
Sarcasm really doesn't work over the interwebs -_- Even as newbie, I thought it was obvious it's nearly impossible to have 3 pages of notes on people when the game had only been open for a couple hours.
Anyway, I think Anacletus is still suspicious. Despite that, I'm not ready to vote for him yet because I don't think starting off non-serious is that scummy considering there was pretty much nothing to go on, and we still have over a day before night falls. I'd would like to hear some more from him, though.
And Fencer, I don't think you're making yourself look very good either.
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##Vote Analectus
This seems to be the only course of action right now... But I'm prepared to change my mind if someone else starts acting very odd.
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Anacletus, do you have anything to say for yourself? You're getting to be pretty popular.
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Don't mind the whole "billions of notes" jokes. Everyone was screwing around just before and a little into day1, so there is a little hesitation to place too much stock in the wasting of time factor, but then again
On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:
Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules.
Riiight...So where exactly in the rules is that mentioned? Except for the mandatory requirements (voting and posting at least once etc..), you're obligated to
- Help your team win
- and not cheat.
sounds like you just don't feel like talking in general.
Eventually you supplied:
Not the most informative post ever, but at least better than you've done so far./\
**I'm going to set a FoS: Anacletus on you. Nevertheless, I'm trying to give you the botd, since you've been bandwagoned hard. That's the best I can do for you at this point.
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Since, of the two I suspected, Umlaut has responded to my doubts in a way that made clear sense, and Anacletus hasn't, I think I'm going to ##Vote Anacletus for now, unless someone else reveals themselves as a better suspect.
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United States8476 Posts
I agree with Hopeless1der that Anacletus has been bandwagoned on really hard, but so far he's recently contributed nothing but short posts which don't adequately defend himself. I want to hear a better defense and a good excuse for why he's been rather inactive and hasn't provided a good self-defense. But right now, FoS: Anacletus.
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Although i dont agree with the line of thinking that got the bandwagon on anacletus, You have to say something anacletus! Ill give you a few more hours before i cast my vote.
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Yeah, I'm not mafia. You guys are mainly voting for me because I said I had reads that I wasn't sharing. I did share what I thought later, I think that the people who talk a lot early are mainly townies, however those that come in to bandwagon voting seem very suspicious to me.
On June 29 2012 23:30 Fencer710 wrote:
##Vote Anacletus
On June 29 2012 23:28 Intact wrote:
##Vote Analectus
Both of them really haven't supplied much information at all and just voted for me after several others did.
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Day 1 vote count:
Anacletus (6): AmericanUmlaut, BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact, JingleHell
Intact (1): Anacletus
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
24 hours remain!
Also, +10 points to anyone who can translate "and you stink of pickled herrings" into German for me.
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And do these points have any actual benefit, or are they just the boring kind?
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I would go with "und du stinkst nach Matjes."
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und du stinkst nach eingelegte Heringe
and thats google translate so it has to be right.
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On June 30 2012 05:23 Anacletus wrote:Yeah, I'm not mafia. You guys are mainly voting for me because I said I had reads that I wasn't sharing. I did share what I thought later, I think that the people who talk a lot early are mainly townies, however those that come in to bandwagon voting seem very suspicious to me. Both of them really haven't supplied much information at all and just voted for me after several others did.
I'm 99.9999% sure I was the first one who voted you(And the first one who voted, period). Let me check~
Yes, I was. Though I was an idiot after someone else expressed their concern/suspicion towards me and I unvoted. I should have kept my vote up until you had evidence.
Also I reread all your posts, your posting is somewhat similar to what some have accused me of: Little-No content posts served to keep people from thinking you're lurking.
Also, remember when I said Jinglehell and Anacletus may be in league and fingerpointing eachother to cover? Well I fucked up, NrGmonk pointed his finger at Jinglehell, and Anacletus pointed his finger at NrGmonk for that:On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy.
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Oh, and where do you say what your reads are?
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On June 30 2012 06:05 iamperfection wrote:
und du stinkst nach eingelegte Heringe
and thats google translate so it has to be right.
Google translate often has grammar errors when you enter phrases and sentances.
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Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically.
It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE.
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On June 30 2012 06:11 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 05:23 Anacletus wrote:Yeah, I'm not mafia. You guys are mainly voting for me because I said I had reads that I wasn't sharing. I did share what I thought later, I think that the people who talk a lot early are mainly townies, however those that come in to bandwagon voting seem very suspicious to me. On June 29 2012 23:30 Fencer710 wrote:
##Vote Anacletus On June 29 2012 23:28 Intact wrote:
##Vote Analectus Both of them really haven't supplied much information at all and just voted for me after several others did. I'm 99.9999% sure I was the first one who voted you(And the first one who voted, period). Let me check~ Yes, I was. Though I was an idiot after someone else expressed their concern/suspicion towards me and I unvoted. I should have kept my vote up until you had evidence. Also I reread all your posts, your posting is somewhat similar to what some have accused me of: Little-No content posts served to keep people from thinking you're lurking. Also, remember when I said Jinglehell and Anacletus may be in league and fingerpointing eachother to cover? Well I fucked up, NrGmonk pointed his finger at Jinglehell, and Anacletus pointed his finger at NrGmonk for that: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy.
Ahh, my mistake Fencer, you are correct.
Either way, I'm not mafia, and it looks like I might actually get hung. So I'd like to point out that several people aren't voting, so when I flip town don't go at each others' throats accusing each other for voting for me. I would be more suspicious of those not voting, because they would know that I am town and be weary of voting to hang a townie as that would be very suspicious upon the flip.
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Saying "I'm not mafia" holds just as much leverage as 'I'm a walrus who is GM in SCII so I can say whatever I want" in an [H] thread by NrGmonk in the SCII strategy section.
I don't think it's possible to tell who is mafia based solely on who is or is not voting, unless only one or two people are/aren't voting.
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On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE.
Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion.
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^I'll post less useless analogies in the future.
Remember that posts like that aren't my only posts, and you can always choose just not to reply to them and ignore them.
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On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion.
Wow, that's completely meta, a waste of content post about waste of content posting. I agree, though. Not ready to shift a vote yet, but I've got an FoS on Fencer710.
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On June 30 2012 06:35 Fencer710 wrote:
Saying "I'm not mafia" holds just as much leverage as 'I'm a walrus who is GM in SCII so I can say whatever I want" in an [H] thread by NrGmonk in the SCII strategy section.
I don't think it's possible to tell who is mafia based solely on who is or is not voting, unless only one or two people are/aren't voting.
Votes may not tell you who is scum directly but it is a crucial part of building cases in the later stages of the game. Even though we don't know very much right now, we shouldn't be tossing votes around like they're going out of style. Having all these votes piled up on Anacletus so quickly disturbs me. I still consider him the most suspicious, but that's primarily because no one else has done anything noteworthy, except perhaps jingle going crazy at the start there.
btw, Did you expect him to tell you he is mafia? Even if he was, that would be the dumbest move ever.
He's not even trying to save himself with that statement, he's assuming hes as good as dead and suggesting that the non-voters are the scum. Pretty pro-town mentality imo.
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Sorry, I have a habit (bad in mafia?) of replying to every post if it hasn't been replied to already.
Any other reasons why you would put a FoS on me? As far as I can tell it's because I make a lot of short posts like this :/
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On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\
Well, there's also this shady bit that never got completely cleared up. Add that to spammy posts, and yeah, you're at least worth watching.
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On June 30 2012 06:48 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:35 Fencer710 wrote:
Saying "I'm not mafia" holds just as much leverage as 'I'm a walrus who is GM in SCII so I can say whatever I want" in an [H] thread by NrGmonk in the SCII strategy section.
I don't think it's possible to tell who is mafia based solely on who is or is not voting, unless only one or two people are/aren't voting. Votes may not tell you who is scum directly but it is a crucial part of building cases in the later stages of the game. Even though we don't know very much right now, we shouldn't be tossing votes around like they're going out of style. Having all these votes piled up on Anacletus so quickly disturbs me. I still consider him the most suspicious, but that's primarily because no one else has done anything noteworthy, except perhaps jingle going crazy at the start there. btw, Did you expect him to tell you he is mafia? Even if he was, that would be the dumbest move ever. He's not even trying to save himself with that statement, he's assuming hes as good as dead and suggesting that the non-voters are the scum. Pretty pro-town mentality imo.
Hmm, I guess you're right there.
No, but as of now that's one of his only arguments out of getting lynched.
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On June 30 2012 06:54 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ Well, there's also this shady bit that never got completely cleared up. Add that to spammy posts, and yeah, you're at least worth watching. Again, I was 100% asleep during the day, with my proof being that I posted a lot last night. You can check my posting history.
If I had posted my views on Anacletus and Jinglehell, you could have just as easily said that I was just reposting what Umlaut said with different and worse wording. It's my fault for being asleep.
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Okay, as you can tell I've been gone for a while; sleeping and working. I just read the thread and I apologize if I missed anything. (In case you aren't sure if you belive me I work every Tuesday-Saturday from 11-7 ADT (I'll be working Sunday this week too) and that, along with my commute and my sleeps, takes up the time that I am not posting) You can also check the other game I am in hereand compare timestamps. You will note that while I am around I post in both threads and while I am away from my computer I don't post anything.
That being said I think that Fencer is scummier than Anacle-whateverhtefuckhisfullnameis and here is why:
Our good friend #710 tried to get a band wagon started on Anacletus with that first vote which he cast long before anyone else, right after ##voteing ole Blindy posts:
On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting.
Which is shortly followed by an ##unvote from Fencer.
Fencer tried to get a bandwagon rolling but when it failed he backed right off. He was testing teh waters and found them tepid. As soon as someone else ##voted Anacletus Fencer jumped right back on the bandwagon hoping to get it rolling and look what happened. Now Anacletus is one vote away from being lynched and Fencer is pretending that he is town.
Now I do think Anancletus has posted some fishy stuff, in fact I said just that earlier, but I believe that Fencer jumped on the fishiest sounding guy and is trying to make us townies follow him to our own demise.
Now if you don;t already believe me, and you should, let's take a long walk down memory lane in the way of his filter:
We'll start with this gem.
On June 29 2012 18:47 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters. shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so: - Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot. -Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well. I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\
where Fencer's first post clearly tries to buddy up to a, probably, towny. When he is immediately called out for it he cries NEWB! as if that would make a difference. We're in a newbie game of course you are a newb. Fencer's defense is lackluster at best and scummy at worst.
His next post is another classic where he points the finger at two guys who he could build a reasonable case against by simply saying: "For some reason I can't say exactly [pinpoint] why it makes me tick, but it does." He is trying to start a another bandwagon with no evidence, if he was a townie he would use logic and reason to find scum not just 'some reason'
now in his next four post (all of which are one-liners) there is one which actually had me laughing out loud this example of what not to say when you are scum:
On June 29 2012 21:15 Fencer710 wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players.
Seriously that is his entire post. What the hell else should we be doing?
So, to make a long case short, Fencer is scum.
##vote: Fencer710
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EBWOP:
I meant to add why I'm not looking at JingleHell any more. It was mentioned that this is just how he plays and his meta conforms to his usual types of posting in the real ABL. Since that is the case I can't find him scummy simply based on his seemingly chaotic actions.
I'll still be watching Mr. theHell very closely but I am no longer sure that he is scummy.
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I must say, in light of Promethelax's excellent digging, while I'm not yet ready to go beyond an FoS on Fencer, I'm at least going to ##Unvote Anacletus.
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EBWOP And thank you for those kind words on my behalf.
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Yeah I'm an idiot for sure.
Elaborating on this a bit: Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. I had forgotten that posting 1-liners/spam is considered 'scum'. I need to reread the rules T_T.
shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.
I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so:
- Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot.
-Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well.
I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ I said this since in your first game you fuck up and learn a lot more than your second and third, at least in my experience with playing games for the first time, unless you do so on purpose.
Now, what I should have done, in spoilers if you don't want to read it: + Show Spoiler +I should have said I will stay and post through the night to prove my claim that I was asleep through the first portion.
I should have paid more attention to the general guide to mafia. A lot more.
I should have re-read everything 5 times, and been very very careful what I posted.
I should have posted far far less. I'm an idiot for forgetting why Anacletus was called out as scum. T_T
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:24 Fencer710 wrote:Yeah I'm an idiot for sure. Elaborating on this a bit: Show nested quote +Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. I had forgotten that posting 1-liners/spam is considered 'scum'. I need to reread the rules T_T. Show nested quote +shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.
I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so:
- Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot.
-Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well.
I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ I said this since in your first game you fuck up and learn a lot more than your second and third, at least in my experience with playing games for the first time, unless you do so on purpose. Now, what I should have done, in spoilers if you don't want to read it: + Show Spoiler +I should have said I will stay and post through the night to prove my claim that I was asleep through the first portion.
I should have paid more attention to the general guide to mafia. A lot more.
I should have re-read everything 5 times, and been very very careful what I posted.
I should have posted far far less. I'm an idiot for forgetting why Anacletus was called out as scum. T_T
Also It's pretty easy to point out a newbie's mistakes as scum behaviour, I consistently start stopping 'scummy' behaviour, aka spamming and indecisiveness as you/I catch it.
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On June 30 2012 09:30 Fencer710 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:24 Fencer710 wrote:Yeah I'm an idiot for sure. Elaborating on this a bit: Show nested quote +Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. I had forgotten that posting 1-liners/spam is considered 'scum'. I need to reread the rules T_T. Show nested quote +shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.
I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so:
- Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot.
-Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well.
I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ I said this since in your first game you fuck up and learn a lot more than your second and third, at least in my experience with playing games for the first time, unless you do so on purpose. Now, what I should have done, in spoilers if you don't want to read it: + Show Spoiler +I should have said I will stay and post through the night to prove my claim that I was asleep through the first portion.
I should have paid more attention to the general guide to mafia. A lot more.
I should have re-read everything 5 times, and been very very careful what I posted.
I should have posted far far less. I'm an idiot for forgetting why Anacletus was called out as scum. T_T EBWOP: At the beginning here, I mean to say that I forgot why Anacletus was called out for being scum while posting. Also It's pretty easy to point out a newbie's mistakes as scum behaviour, I consistently start stopping 'scummy' behaviour, aka spamming and indecisiveness as you/I catch it.
We already know you're a newbie. Just like the rest of us.
##Vote Fencer710
It's not a crutch, it should be a similar sort of hindrance (we're all willing to spend time on a website dedicated to competitive video games, don't tell me about not reading the guide.)
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The problem is I didn't read it more than once, and I forgot a lot of it.
I knew I shouldn't have posted that EBWOP. T_T
Double edged sword, yadayada.
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Oh, you can also say I'm scum because I didn't read the town part well enough, such as this passage: You should never post reflexively or impulsively. The content of your posts should flow together naturally while indicating “I am helping the town”. I've been posting like that way too much. Another example: When reading the thread, make sure you are not caught up in the moment. This is a forum with dynamic discussion, not a novel. Reading the thread in chronological fashion will therefore likely lead to confusion and a lack of focus. Because people are reading the thread at different times and will often post their thoughts without considering if the topic is exhausted, certain controversial issues can get dragged out in the thread and become disproportionately visible compared to their actual significance. I've confused things by reading like this, as well. One example: On June 30 2012 06:11 Fencer710 wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Not relevant, read if you want] +On June 30 2012 05:23 Anacletus wrote:Yeah, I'm not mafia. You guys are mainly voting for me because I said I had reads that I wasn't sharing. I did share what I thought later, I think that the people who talk a lot early are mainly townies, however those that come in to bandwagon voting seem very suspicious to me. Both of them really haven't supplied much information at all and just voted for me after several others did. I'm 99.9999% sure I was the first one who voted you(And the first one who voted, period). Let me check~ Yes, I was. Though I was an idiot after someone else expressed their concern/suspicion towards me and I unvoted. I should have kept my vote up until you had evidence. Also I reread all your posts, your posting is somewhat similar to what some have accused me of: Little-No content posts served to keep people from thinking you're lurking. Also, remember when I said Jinglehell and Anacletus may be in league and fingerpointing eachother to cover? Well I fucked up, NrGmonk pointed his finger at Jinglehell, and Anacletus pointed his finger at NrGmonk for that: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy.
Both times I had screwed up as I was not reading those posts in order.
As for reading the Mafia section, here's how I did:
Inflate unimportant matters. If town is spending the first day debating whether to lynch or no-lynch, then that is an entire day lost where they could have been analyzing and pressuring people. In general, policy debates are unproductive for the town and are a good way to create distractions. I talked about how there was no way I was able to post initially about 4 times when it was brought up only two or three times. Not completely sure if inflating or not.
Post misleading analysis. Newer mafia are usually afraid to push suspicions and instead wait to see what the town consensus is before jumping onto any particular lynch. This is a mistake that can often get you caught, particularly if other mafia are on the chopping block. Don’t be afraid to push for the lynch of suspicious townies. Focus on the suspicious aspects of their play and punish them for it. Now, if I had read the guide, especially this section, I also could have kept my vote up on Anacletus if he wasn't scum instead of unvoting and revoting like I did.
Inexperienced mafia teams often suffer from a lack of cohesion and planning. Though the team may have one or two active members, the rest often suffer from fear of posting. Because of a lack of communication between the mafia, they are stuck more in the mindset of individual survival, rather than looking at the bigger picture of how they can be working together to push their agenda. This suggests that the mafia team is very lack-luster if I am mafia, as my posts have been terrible and led to being voted by two people as of time of writing.
If one of your mafia buddies is being attacked, do not freak out and immediately defend them. However, do not totally ignore the case against them either, as you will only look suspicious should they get killed. Generally, there are two things you can do to help ease the focus off your ally. You can either dismiss the case by attacking it head on (i.e., dismissing the accusations as fallacious), or distracting the town (i.e., bringing up another subject, or proposing an alternative target). In keeping with the above advice, determine how strong the case against your ally actually is and plan accordingly. Sometimes, a combination of the two works best. If the case is weak, you can often get away with acknowledging it then quickly dismissing it while moving on to a different topic. This portion suggests that either I did not read the guide, or that either me OR Anacletus is scum.
Food for thought: Just because someone makes stupid posts does not mean they are mafia. Oftentimes, the people who make the blatantly bad posts are not really mafia; they are just careless townies. Townies are frequently bored, while the mafia are not. On the other hand, townies usually aren’t afraid to post, while the mafia are. When you are considering whether a post was made by a mafia or a townie, make sure to consider the motivations behind the words. If you end up thinking that the player is mafia, go back and ask yourself if there is a possible townie explanation for a player’s posts. If some sort of reasonable explanation exists, it is okay to go forward with your accusation, but don’t go overboard. Many townies have been lynched by overzealous townies who convinced themselves that their target was mafia, even though there was plenty of doubt as to their actual alignment.
Sorry the formatting sucks, not sure how to format it.
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EBWOP: Second line, I say "another example" when there is none.
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I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus.
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I think Anacletus is more suspicious than Fencer710. I think at this point it is likely that one or the other is likely scum just from the way they are posting. I also buy the defense that fencer gave more than the defense that anacletus gave. I think fencer argument that his actions are that of a noob townie make sense.
so i vote## Anacletus
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In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
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On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
Uhm, it really doesn't work that way. Because they know that we know that they know that we know... you can get as meta as you want, what it really comes down to is educated guesses, and convincing other people those judgement calls are reasonable. Both sides know the same things, and both sides can try to meta-game. You can't second guess the people who know more than you and get the same updates to info as you.
All you can do is look for what they do with the information.
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On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
I'm 99% sure that if Anacletus flips town Fencer is scum. His behaviour makes no sense otherwise. I still think Anacletus might be scum if he is than Fencer is probably town but if Anacletus is town Fencer is almost definitely scum. If, when I wake up tomorrow, we don't have enough votes for a lynch I'll unvote and vote for Anacletus since a no lynch won't help us at all and if he flips town I'm sure that Fencer is scum.
We should never lynch for information, obviously but we should be ready to use the information from our lynches.
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On June 30 2012 11:15 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. I'm 99% sure that if Anacletus flips town Fencer is scum. His behaviour makes no sense otherwise. I still think Anacletus might be scum if he is than Fencer is probably town but if Anacletus is town Fencer is almost definitely scum. If, when I wake up tomorrow, we don't have enough votes for a lynch I'll unvote and vote for Anacletus since a no lynch won't help us at all and if he flips town I'm sure that Fencer is scum. We should never lynch for information, obviously but we should be ready to use the information from our lynches. He was already viewed as suspicious by Umlaut and a few others before I cast the initial vote. I may have gotten the ball rolling, and cast suspicion on myself in the process, but we still have over a dozen hours left to decide and he probably would have been branded as a lurker and mafia anyway.
Also, I've decided two things:
First, I will always wait two minutes to reply to a post. Always.
Second, I will reread my post three times before posting it, beginning to end.
These will last for the duration of my first three mafia games, and should keep me from posting as terribly as I have been.
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EBWOP: Shoot, I forgot to reread that a third time.
I want you to elaborate on which actions are inexplicable, and why they are as such.
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If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD.
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OK, but I have a question: What is BotD?
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EBWOP, another acronym you should familiarize yourself with, by the way, because you're about to start hearing it a lot... RTFM.
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OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts!
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On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts!
I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool.
##Vote: Fencer710
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On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710
You don't think Fencer is scum but you voted him? What the hell? If you are town this is horrible play, vote for someone who you think is scum not someone you think is annoying. Now, I think Fencer is scum so I voted him; what are you doing?
On June 30 2012 11:26 JingleHell wrote:
If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD.
This is really good advice, we should all follow it. We don't need townies acting like scum just because they are dumb. Come on guys there are 9 of us, we need to start working together, our strength is in numbers.
This
On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts!
is why I can't imagine that you are town, I bring a case against you and your reaction is to give really generic advice and go to bed? You may as well just claim scum in the thread.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet.
Is there anyway to know what roles have been filled by players?(I'm not asking who is what, I'm asking only the roles that has been filled since this has so few players therefore not all roles are filled on both sides)
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On June 30 2012 13:47 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet.
Is there anyway to know what roles have been filled by players?(I'm not asking who is what, I'm asking only the roles that has been filled since this has so few players therefore not all roles are filled on both sides)
Although I can't speak to this game I've never once seen a game where we get to learn that in any way except figuring it out for ourselves but thank you! You reminded me I had a question:
Can we get a vote count? Please and thanks
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On June 30 2012 13:47 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet.
Is there anyway to know what roles have been filled by players?(I'm not asking who is what, I'm asking only the roles that has been filled since this has so few players therefore not all roles are filled on both sides)
No, the setup is semi-open. You know which roles may appear in the game, but not the number of roles.
On June 30 2012 13:50 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:47 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet.
Is there anyway to know what roles have been filled by players?(I'm not asking who is what, I'm asking only the roles that has been filled since this has so few players therefore not all roles are filled on both sides) Although I can't speak to this game I've never once seen a game where we get to learn that in any way except figuring it out for ourselves but thank you! You reminded me I had a question: Can we get a vote count? Please and thanks
By my count, the vote total stands as such:
Anacletus (6): AmericanUmlaut, BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact, iamperfection
Intact (1): Anacletus
Fencer710 (3): Promethelax, JingleHell, Hopeless1der
Not Voted: NRGmonk, Myles
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Currently, no one is set to be lynched Day 1.
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United States5162 Posts
I'm starting to lean a bit more towards Fencer, but I'm going to sleep on it and vote in the morning.
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Good morning, folks. Happy Lynching Day!
I want to reiterate that my encouragement of everyone voting early was not to create a bandwagoning situation, but to force opinions out and (perhaps more importantly) to identify who's reluctant to stick their neck out and be forced to put up posts that can be useful information later in the game. I think that the idea has generated some useful discussion.
I want to know from Monk and Myles: Why are you not contributing anything to this discussion?
Myles's posting seems a little fishy, "leaning" toward one guy or the other without actually coming out and making any serious analysis. He has just one post that has actual content, though that post is pretty reasonable. My read is leaning more toward an inactive townie than scum, but I don't like that you're not taking a more active part in this discussion. There are only nine of us; we need everyone's input!
Monk is just not here. A couple of posts explaining how newbie you are, and a pretty limp-wristed FoS on Anacletus. If Anacletus's "nothing but short posts which don't adequately defend himself" is sufficient for him to be the only player you've even discussed as possible scum, what are we to conclude from your total lack of contribution?
There is no reason for town to not be contributing. It's in the mafia players' best interest for there to be a large number of relatively inactive players; then all they have to do is pop in once a day saying "yeah, Umlaut seems like a smart guy, FoS whatever_he_said." If every one of us is in here posting well thought-out analyses of the play so far, then we force them to do so by denying them the camoflage of non-contributing townies.
I see no reason thus far to change my vote from Anacletus. He's provided no real defense, and his vote for Intact makes no sense. I don't know what to think about Fencer exactly, but my read on him at the moment is that he's just awful and can be ignored.
On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus.
This is good thinking. If Anacletus flips red, I think we absolutely should be taking a hard look at Promethelax and his strident defense. It might be asking for too much to nail mafia night one and get another one to out himself attempting a defense, but if that's actually the situation we've practically won the game already.
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Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks.
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No, conditional voting is not allowed. We will only count the vote you post in thread.
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On June 30 2012 13:38 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 You don't think Fencer is scum but you voted him? What the hell? If you are town this is horrible play, vote for someone who you think is scum not someone you think is annoying. Now, I think Fencer is scum so I voted him; what are you doing? Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 11:26 JingleHell wrote:
If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD. This is really good advice, we should all follow it. We don't need townies acting like scum just because they are dumb. Come on guys there are 9 of us, we need to start working together, our strength is in numbers. This Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! is why I can't imagine that you are town, I bring a case against you and your reaction is to give really generic advice and go to bed? You may as well just claim scum in the thread.
I think Anacletus and Fender have had the scummiest play so far. However, I do not think that there is enough evidence that the [i]are[]/i] scum. However, I feel obliged to lynch someone, and Fender's death would be less hurtful to the town since Anacletus (was) posting somewhat relevant things to the thread. <--This is not a good reason to lynch someone I know, but its the best I can come up with under the circumstances for placing my initial vote.
As you've already changed your vote to ensure a lynch, it probably doesn't matter anymore, but I was going to do the same thing (Switch vote from Fender to Anacletus) closer to the deadline (unless Fender got jumped). My reason for not immediately voting Anacletus was that they're both looking scummy and if I hammered, it could very well have halted all discussion for the rest of the day until we lynched him.
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On June 30 2012 23:03 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:38 Promethelax wrote:On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 You don't think Fencer is scum but you voted him? What the hell? If you are town this is horrible play, vote for someone who you think is scum not someone you think is annoying. Now, I think Fencer is scum so I voted him; what are you doing? On June 30 2012 11:26 JingleHell wrote:
If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD. This is really good advice, we should all follow it. We don't need townies acting like scum just because they are dumb. Come on guys there are 9 of us, we need to start working together, our strength is in numbers. This On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! is why I can't imagine that you are town, I bring a case against you and your reaction is to give really generic advice and go to bed? You may as well just claim scum in the thread. I think Anacletus and Fender have had the scummiest play so far. However, I do not think that there is enough evidence that the [i]are[]/i] scum. However, I feel obliged to lynch someone, and Fender's death would be less hurtful to the town since Anacletus (was) posting somewhat relevant things to the thread. <--This is not a good reason to lynch someone I know, but its the best I can come up with under the circumstances for placing my initial vote. As you've already changed your vote to ensure a lynch, it probably doesn't matter anymore, but I was going to do the same thing (Switch vote from Fender to Anacletus) closer to the deadline (unless Fender got jumped). My reason for not immediately voting Anacletus was that they're both looking scummy and if I hammered, it could very well have halted all discussion for the rest of the day until we lynched him.
This sounds vaguely suspicious to me. Noncommital, but a lot of words to say it, and no real interest in who dies. We might be looking the wrong way on both of them.
Why would you want to bandwagon on what you think is a mislynch? Remember, a mislynch actively hurts the town. Sure, information is good, but if we lose a townie vote to get it, we're hurting.
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Would you rather No-Lynch in a situation like this Jingle? I would not, but I can see the merits to both decisions.
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On June 30 2012 23:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
Would you rather No-Lynch in a situation like this Jingle? I would not, but I can see the merits to both decisions.
I'd rather lynch scum. I'm just reminding people that while a no-lynch can be bad, because scum is +1 kill against us, with a mislynch, they're +2 kills. As much as I like information, the fact remains that information is the scum's game, ours is perception. Nothing we know or think matters unless others see it.
So, while I'm not 100% against taking a risk day 1, we shouldn't just tunnel into lynching for info, and should go back through filters, see what we can really see, take a step back, and try to get a shot at lynching a scum. I'm planning to do that myself as soon as I finish getting my kid fed and doing some cleaning up.
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Based on what I've seen, I am not convinced that either Anacletus or Fencer is scum. (I was calling him Fender for a while there, sorry) I don't have a full scum read on anyone. Thanks for evading the Yes or No question I asked though. I'm not trying to trap you here, its just that you seem of the opinion that we shouldn't be lynching anyone right now due to lack of sufficient scumtells
My point with the two players under suspicion is that I value the information from either lynch higher than the analysis of the lynched player or the lynched player's vote (Because they're targeting each other and not posting much analysis). I know town is down a player (potentially two) but the game is practically designed to mislynch day 1. I agree that our goal should be finding scum, not just getting information, but there is too little to go on so far other than ensuring someone gets lynched today due to bandwagoning.
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On July 01 2012 00:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
Based on what I've seen, I am not convinced that either Anacletus or Fencer is scum. (I was calling him Fender for a while there, sorry) I don't have a full scum read on anyone. Thanks for evading the Yes or No question I asked though. I'm not trying to trap you here, its just that you seem of the opinion that we shouldn't be lynching anyone right now due to lack of sufficient scumtells
My point with the two players under suspicion is that I value the information from either lynch higher than the analysis of the lynched player or the lynched player's vote (Because they're targeting each other and not posting much analysis). I know town is down a player (potentially two) but the game is practically designed to mislynch day 1. I agree that our goal should be finding scum, not just getting information, but there is too little to go on so far other than ensuring someone gets lynched today due to bandwagoning.
If you'll look back, since the very start, I've been against "yes or no" type play. I'm not evading anything, I'm saying we need to actually consider the angles. This isn't something we can just say one or the other is always better, so I'm not going to be forced to answer a question that doesn't line up with the way I believe we should play, and I'm not going to be called scum for being consistent that way.
Why are you trying to force a decision based on too little information? That seems entirely more relevant at this point, because in the end, you'll see what decision I come to when I place a vote.
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United States5162 Posts
Umlaut, I don't understand how you could consider me inactive with non-contributing posts. I was one of the first people to question Anecletus for being so non-serious and have 10 posts, which is only a couple less than you; and while they're not essays on meta analysis, I think they do provide some insight into how people are acting.
Either way, I've been just as active and contributive as most. If you want inactive/non-contributing look at Monk and BobTheLob. They have 5 and 3 posts, respectively. Actually, the fact that BobTheLob has posted almost nothing, and has posted none of his own thoughts, but hoped on the bandwagon of Anacletus is kind of surprising to have not risen red flags.
As far as why I stated I'm leaning towards Fencer, it's because nearly his entire post history has been useless. He's done a whole lot of talking about nothing while Anecletus at least contributed a little bit. They top my list as people who could be mafia, but if Bob doesn't speak up I might put him up there, too.
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On July 01 2012 00:17 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 00:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
Based on what I've seen, I am not convinced that either Anacletus or Fencer is scum. (I was calling him Fender for a while there, sorry) I don't have a full scum read on anyone. Thanks for evading the Yes or No question I asked though. I'm not trying to trap you here, its just that you seem of the opinion that we shouldn't be lynching anyone right now due to lack of sufficient scumtells
My point with the two players under suspicion is that I value the information from either lynch higher than the analysis of the lynched player or the lynched player's vote (Because they're targeting each other and not posting much analysis). I know town is down a player (potentially two) but the game is practically designed to mislynch day 1. I agree that our goal should be finding scum, not just getting information, but there is too little to go on so far other than ensuring someone gets lynched today due to bandwagoning.
If you'll look back, since the very start, I've been against "yes or no" type play. I'm not evading anything, I'm saying we need to actually consider the angles. This isn't something we can just say one or the other is always better, so I'm not going to be forced to answer a question that doesn't line up with the way I believe we should play, and I'm not going to be called scum for being consistent that way. Why are you trying to force a decision based on too little information? That seems entirely more relevant at this point, because in the end, you'll see what decision I come to when I place a vote.
You have been against yes/no play, I agree. You didn't really want to policy lynch to begin with. For the record I do not think your play is scummy. However, in order to vote for anyone you must come to the conclusion that it would be (or at least seems to be) beneficial for town. My problem with your answer is it assumes we will always be able to find scum, which right now I cannot. Too many bandwagons and lurkers. Therefore, my choices are to (semi-)knowingly go into either a mislynch or no-lynch situation.
I qualified my question with "in a situation like this", by which I meant relatively poor cases, only two real options for voting, and a good chance to mislynch. My stance is it is better to mislynch for information than to no-lynch for an extra vote tomorrow. The votes that do get made are based off of better analysis due to having more information available. There is also the chance that we are lucky enough to pull scum.
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On July 01 2012 00:53 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 00:17 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 00:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
Based on what I've seen, I am not convinced that either Anacletus or Fencer is scum. (I was calling him Fender for a while there, sorry) I don't have a full scum read on anyone. Thanks for evading the Yes or No question I asked though. I'm not trying to trap you here, its just that you seem of the opinion that we shouldn't be lynching anyone right now due to lack of sufficient scumtells
My point with the two players under suspicion is that I value the information from either lynch higher than the analysis of the lynched player or the lynched player's vote (Because they're targeting each other and not posting much analysis). I know town is down a player (potentially two) but the game is practically designed to mislynch day 1. I agree that our goal should be finding scum, not just getting information, but there is too little to go on so far other than ensuring someone gets lynched today due to bandwagoning.
If you'll look back, since the very start, I've been against "yes or no" type play. I'm not evading anything, I'm saying we need to actually consider the angles. This isn't something we can just say one or the other is always better, so I'm not going to be forced to answer a question that doesn't line up with the way I believe we should play, and I'm not going to be called scum for being consistent that way. Why are you trying to force a decision based on too little information? That seems entirely more relevant at this point, because in the end, you'll see what decision I come to when I place a vote. You have been against yes/no play, I agree. You didn't really want to policy lynch to begin with. For the record I do not think your play is scummy. However, in order to vote for anyone you must come to the conclusion that it would be (or at least seems to be) beneficial for town. My problem with your answer is it assumes we will always be able to find scum, which right now I cannot. Too many bandwagons and lurkers. Therefore, my choices are to (semi-)knowingly go into either a mislynch or no-lynch situation. I qualified my question with "in a situation like this", by which I meant relatively poor cases, only two real options for voting, and a good chance to mislynch. My stance is it is better to mislynch for information than to no-lynch for an extra vote tomorrow. The votes that do get made are based off of better analysis due to having more information available. There is also the chance that we are lucky enough to pull scum.
I think we're better off continuing discussion to try and force a scumslip, and if we reach the point of no return on a vote, I'll make the decision then on what vote to make based on all the information available at the time. I should (almost always) be here by the deadline. However, today I might not be, so like I said, I'll be going through the available information and working with it.
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Ok, so, as promised, some analysis. Maybe you shouldn't have pushed me so hard for it, Hopeless.
On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board?
Early on, suggesting Policy on Lurkers, at a point when it would have been a terrible option.
Category of useless posts, spoilered to stay concise.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 07:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:32 JingleHell wrote:
And just in case people decide to show up, and start trying to take my lack of posts as suspicious, I'll be leaving in a bit for TKD. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Myles, if you have a suggestion for flushing the scum with people not talking until we have something to go on, feel free to elaborate on that plan. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with the established method of getting people talking enough that we either get something to work with, or at least get enough people active to be physically capable of lynching anybody. Aha! That's what we're looking for you lieing...Or maybe 10 minutes counts as a bit...Whatevs, Not a big deal. I do probably need to read better though. Everyone else needs to hurry up and get in here, im freaking out man. On June 29 2012 11:35 Hopeless1der wrote:
i have one post-it note and a small whiteboard. =p
Mind you, those fly in the face of:
On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere...
You try to dismiss your as "dumb jokes" and attack Analfetus for it at the same time.
Then, you try to drag me into a policy discussion when I've already made myself 100% clear about policy, all the while encouraging what you admit is a probably mislynch "for information", despite not really believing either is scummy.
On July 01 2012 00:53 Hopeless1der wrote:
I qualified my question with "in a situation like this", by which I meant relatively poor cases, only two real options for voting, and a good chance to mislynch. My stance is it is better to mislynch for information than to no-lynch for an extra vote tomorrow. The votes that do get made are based off of better analysis due to having more information available. There is also the chance that we are lucky enough to pull scum.
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless1der
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United States8476 Posts
Monk is just not here. A couple of posts explaining how newbie you are, and a pretty limp-wristed FoS on Anacletus. If Anacletus's "nothing but short posts which don't adequately defend himself" is sufficient for him to be the only player you've even discussed as possible scum, what are we to conclude from your total lack of contribution?
The difference is I never felt the urgency to defend myself, because I was never accused. I also went out last night and only got home this morning. You can check the veracity of this statement from The Newbie XVIII game.
Anyways, time to contribute. One argument I have in Anacletus's defense is that even though he's close to being lynched, no one has really mounted a strong defense for him or has been really adamant to accuse someone else. If he were really mafia, I would suspect at least 2 other people to help him out a bit more.
Fencer's play just seems nooby to me more than scummy. I would personally give him the BotD, at least for day 1. I'll look into this more after this post though. But to be honest, at this point, it seems more likely that scum is in one of the lurkers rather than in one of these two. Btw, the bigggest lurkers include BobTheLob and me and below that there's Intact, BLinD-RawR, and Myles.
I want to bring special attention to Intact. Although he posts a decent amount, it seems to be filled with one-liners that don't really contribute much to anything and state the obvious. Check his filter, but for the lazy, here's some highlights:
On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion.
Trying to edge on Anacletus's hanging with a random story that doesn't really help anyone.
On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
Stating the obvious, and trying to gun for the lynch.
At the same time, however, it seems extremely weird that Anacletus would vote for Intact without any providing any reasons. Suspicion goes back to Anacletus...I would really like to hear some explanation on this from him. Anyways, these are just my thoughts and I just want to lay them out so I could get feedback. Not really solidly accusing anyone though until I can get some feedback.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
I didn't do this yesterday, I'm calling it a night now so people know when I'm on and when I'm not, so seeing as I will miss the Night post I got somethings to say.
I just hope that we don't end up in a no lynch situation and I really do want fresh reads from monk who has been largely inactive and people need to push on Bob to talk too.
Bob has been as helpless as Fencer (who I think is more of an uncomfortable player than straight up scum but either way hes been hurting town play by not contributing) and worse is that we can't even get a read on him because he doesn't post.
so until I have some sort of epiphany and rush to my PC, I'm going to stand by the Anacletus lynch.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
EBWOP: Happy birthday ghost and thank you monk for your reads.
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Can we get a vote count again pls
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Day 1 Vote Count:
Anacletus (7): AmericanUmlaut, BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact, iamperfection, Promethelax
Intact (1): Anacletus
Fencer710 (1): Hopeless1der
Hopeless1der (1): JingleHell
Not Voted: NRGmonk, Myles
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Currently, Anacletus is set to be lynched Day 1.
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Myles: You're right to a certain extent. I was looking at your and Monk's contributions specifically because you were the only two not to have cast a vote. However, just because two players have the same post count doesn't mean they're making the same contribution. The vast majority of your posts so far have been filler that haven't added in any meaningful way to the conversation. For the record, I don't have a scummy read on you, I just feel like you could be contributing more with your posting.
JH: Less nuttiness, and more posts like that, please! I for one am persuaded. I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far.
##Unvote Anacletus
##Vote Hopeless1der
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch.
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On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Myles: You're right to a certain extent. I was looking at your and Monk's contributions specifically because you were the only two not to have cast a vote. However, just because two players have the same post count doesn't mean they're making the same contribution. The vast majority of your posts so far have been filler that haven't added in any meaningful way to the conversation. For the record, I don't have a scummy read on you, I just feel like you could be contributing more with your posting.
JH: Less nuttiness, and more posts like that, please! I for one am persuaded. I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far.
##Unvote Anacletus
##Vote Hopeless1der
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch.
You just agreed with my reasoning against Hopeless1der because of the underlined text, and then said the bolded.
Bandwagoning on my read, with a huge, glaring inconsistency, with the threat of further bandwagoning. You're still on my scum radar.
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The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following:
WORST CASE SCENARIO
No Lynch Day1
+ Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1
+ Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse.
On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch.
WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU??
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On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU??
Your math requires that we have no new reads to work with based off the mislynch and D2 discussion, and are forced to randomly lynch on D2.
If we avoid a crapshoot on the D2 vote, we have better odds of winning a vote with scum being a smaller percentage of the population.
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EBWOP: I'm concerned the math is technically wrong, but the conclusions would be the same if I had done it correctly
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The conclusions are erroneous no matter the technicalities. Having the scum be a smaller overall percentage of the population is good for a vote based on actual reads, which is the only thing that has a good chance of winning. By the time we have even odds of a "random" vote getting scum, they've already won.
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By the way, I'm going to drop my son off with my mom, and then I'm going to be meeting a fellow Liquidian who's temporarily in town for lunch. I may or may not be back before the deadline. Much love. BANS FOR THE BANGOD.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Myles: You're right to a certain extent. I was looking at your and Monk's contributions specifically because you were the only two not to have cast a vote. However, just because two players have the same post count doesn't mean they're making the same contribution. The vast majority of your posts so far have been filler that haven't added in any meaningful way to the conversation. For the record, I don't have a scummy read on you, I just feel like you could be contributing more with your posting.
JH: Less nuttiness, and more posts like that, please! I for one am persuaded. I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far.
##Unvote Anacletus
##Vote Hopeless1der
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch.
Nearly all of my posts have been about policy or reads, or a question about policy. I still don't see how the are non-contributing. I still wonder why Bob is flying so low below the radar when he's posted nothing expect to bandwagon on Anacletusm, which everyone seemed to ignore.
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The point is that No Lynch is bad from a statistical standpoint. Unless I know I'm lynching a crucial blue role (which I don't), the best course of action is lynch someone. Your case is based on me intentionally mislynching. In the absence of any other information, it is the best we can do. If my Best-Worst case is grounds for suspicion, so be it.
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OK, guys. It's time for me to contribute, as well. An analysis on Promethelax:
Early on, he has been very suspicious of Anacletus, as shown be these spoilered posts: + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. These posts suggests Promethlax is town. I would like to draw attention to the bolded and underlined line, as since Anacletus has played before, we can take notes on his role in his previous game and how he posted in that one in contrast to this game.
His next notable post is directed at me as to make me look like scum, which I did. Spoilered as to take up less space: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:14 Promethelax wrote:Okay, as you can tell I've been gone for a while; sleeping and working. I just read the thread and I apologize if I missed anything. (In case you aren't sure if you belive me I work every Tuesday-Saturday from 11-7 ADT (I'll be working Sunday this week too) and that, along with my commute and my sleeps, takes up the time that I am not posting) You can also check the other game I am in hereand compare timestamps. You will note that while I am around I post in both threads and while I am away from my computer I don't post anything. That being said I think that Fencer is scummier than Anacle-whateverhtefuckhisfullnameis and here is why: Our good friend #710 tried to get a band wagon started on Anacletus with that first vote which he cast long before anyone else, right after ##voteing ole Blindy posts: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. Which is shortly followed by an ##unvote from Fencer. Fencer tried to get a bandwagon rolling but when it failed he backed right off. He was testing teh waters and found them tepid. As soon as someone else ##voted Anacletus Fencer jumped right back on the bandwagon hoping to get it rolling and look what happened. Now Anacletus is one vote away from being lynched and Fencer is pretending that he is town. Now I do think Anancletus has posted some fishy stuff, in fact I said just that earlier, but I believe that Fencer jumped on the fishiest sounding guy and is trying to make us townies follow him to our own demise. Now if you don;t already believe me, and you should, let's take a long walk down memory lane in the way of his filter: We'll start with this gem. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:47 Fencer710 wrote:On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters. shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so: - Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot. -Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well. I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ where Fencer's first post clearly tries to buddy up to a, probably, towny. When he is immediately called out for it he cries NEWB! as if that would make a difference. We're in a newbie game of course you are a newb. Fencer's defense is lackluster at best and scummy at worst. His next post is another classic where he points the finger at two guys who he could build a reasonable case against by simply saying: "For some reason I can't say exactly [pinpoint] why it makes me tick, but it does." He is trying to start a another bandwagon with no evidence, if he was a townie he would use logic and reason to find scum not just 'some reason' now in his next four post (all of which are one-liners) there is one which actually had me laughing out loud this example of what not to say when you are scum: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:15 Fencer710 wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. Seriously that is his entire post. What the hell else should we be doing? So, to make a long case short, Fencer is scum. ##vote: Fencer710 On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. However, his reasoning does not make sense when Promethelax was initially suspicious of Anacletus in the first place. Along with this post which is spoilered as it is very long: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 13:38 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 You don't think Fencer is scum but you voted him? What the hell? If you are town this is horrible play, vote for someone who you think is scum not someone you think is annoying. Now, I think Fencer is scum so I voted him; what are you doing?Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 11:26 JingleHell wrote:
If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD. This is really good advice, we should all follow it. We don't need townies acting like scum just because they are dumb. Come on guys there are 9 of us, we need to start working together, our strength is in numbers. This Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! is why I can't imagine that you are town, I bring a case against you and your reaction is to give really generic advice and go to bed? You may as well just claim scum in the thread. The bolded and underlined portion suggests that he is town and not actually just trying to save Anacletus. On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. All of this suggests that he is town, as he was suspicious/believed Anacletus was scum from the start.
All in all, Promethelax appears to be 100% innocent, but while digging I found that Intact is very suspicious. He has made 8 posts since the game began, all with very few lines, a paragraph at best. A few gems:
On June 29 2012 23:28 Intact wrote:
##Vote Analectus
Bandwagon without any explanation.
On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. This makes me extremely suspicious that Anacletus is not mafia, as regardless if he is mafia or town, it wouldn't make it nearly as easy as he suggests, and it supports the notion of lynching him without actually saying anything.
This isn't enough to change my vote yet, but FoS on Intact.
Also, link to the mafia game Anacletus played in before: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707
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Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer.
I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D
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On July 01 2012 02:12 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Myles: You're right to a certain extent. I was looking at your and Monk's contributions specifically because you were the only two not to have cast a vote. However, just because two players have the same post count doesn't mean they're making the same contribution. The vast majority of your posts so far have been filler that haven't added in any meaningful way to the conversation. For the record, I don't have a scummy read on you, I just feel like you could be contributing more with your posting.
JH: Less nuttiness, and more posts like that, please! I for one am persuaded. I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far.
##Unvote Anacletus
##Vote Hopeless1der
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. You just agreed with my reasoning against Hopeless1der because of the underlined text, and then said the bolded. Bandwagoning on my read, with a huge, glaring inconsistency, with the threat of further bandwagoning. You're still on my scum radar.
You're misconstruing my post. An intentional mislynch is worse than no lynch at all, and arguing otherwise is scummy play, but I don't think that lynching Anacletus is likely to be a mislynch. Regardless, I found your analysis of Hopeless1der persuasive. If I have a scum read on two players, but have a stronger feeling on one than the other, then the logical play is to vote for the one who I feel has the greater chance of being mafia. I have done so. Given that I still feel that Anacletus has a reasonable chance of flipping red, lynching him is still preferable to lynching no one at all, and I'll switch my vote accordingly if the night is otherwise likely to end in a no-lynch.
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On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D
This is the last time I want to see this as an argument from anyone. This is a newbie game; none of us is a veteran player. And it doesn't matter. Failing to contribute is failing to contribute, regardless of your experience level. If you're town, we need you joining in on the discussion so that we have the information we need to establish that you're on our side.
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On July 01 2012 03:43 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D This is the last time I want to see this as an argument from anyone. This is a newbie game; none of us is a veteran player. And it doesn't matter. Failing to contribute is failing to contribute, regardless of your experience level. If you're town, we need you joining in on the discussion so that we have the information we need to establish that you're on our side.
Okay dude. Sorry but some people in here have played before maybe not TL mafia but other versions. I've played absolutely nothing similar.
Note: okay dude is not meant to be condescending or anything like that sorry if it comes across that way.
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United States5162 Posts
OK, considering we have just over 3 hours left, I'm going to cast my vote for Anacletus. After barely contributing, then barely defending himself, he's pretty much disappeared completely. While not the most damning of evidence, it certainly seems scummy to me since a good way to draw attention from yourself is to lay low and let other people take heat - you know, out of sight out of mind.
Fencer is suspicious, but after looking through all his posts some more, seems more newbish than scum. I'm certainly not going to turn a blind eye, but I'll give him the BotD for now.
And despite other people not seeming to care, BobTheLob is quite suspicious to me. Lurker extraordinaire and his last post doesn't elicit much confidence imo.
##Vote Analectus
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On July 01 2012 03:53 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 03:43 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D This is the last time I want to see this as an argument from anyone. This is a newbie game; none of us is a veteran player. And it doesn't matter. Failing to contribute is failing to contribute, regardless of your experience level. If you're town, we need you joining in on the discussion so that we have the information we need to establish that you're on our side. Okay dude. Sorry but some people in here have played before maybe not TL mafia but other versions. I've played absolutely nothing similar. Note: okay dude is not meant to be condescending or anything like that sorry if it comes across that way.
I didn't take it bad . Sorry if my own post came across as unfriendly, I just want people to play and do their best, and I don't want us to fall into the habit of accepting "I'm just new" as an excuse for bad play, because it's a really convenient excuse to try and cover up a scumslip.
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On July 01 2012 03:53 Myles wrote:
OK, considering we have just over 3 hours left, I'm going to cast my vote for Anacletus. After barely contributing, then barely defending himself, he's pretty much disappeared completely. While not the most damning of evidence, it certainly seems scummy to me since a good way to draw attention from yourself is to lay low and let other people take heat - you know, out of sight out of mind.
Fencer is suspicious, but after looking through all his posts some more, seems more newbish than scum. I'm certainly not going to turn a blind eye, but I'll give him the BotD for now.
And despite other people not seeming to care, BobTheLob is quite suspicious to me. Lurker extraordinaire and his last post doesn't elicit much confidence imo.
##Vote Analectus
What is your opinion on JH's read on hopeless1der? Why do you feel that Anacletus is a scummier read?
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Day 1 Vote Count:
Anacletus (7): BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact, iamperfection, Myles, Promethelax
Intact (1): Anacletus
Fencer710 (1): Hopeless1der
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, JingleHell
Not Voted: NRGmonk
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Currently, Anacletus is set to be lynched Day 1. Two hours remain!
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United States5162 Posts
On July 01 2012 03:58 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 03:53 Myles wrote:
OK, considering we have just over 3 hours left, I'm going to cast my vote for Anacletus. After barely contributing, then barely defending himself, he's pretty much disappeared completely. While not the most damning of evidence, it certainly seems scummy to me since a good way to draw attention from yourself is to lay low and let other people take heat - you know, out of sight out of mind.
Fencer is suspicious, but after looking through all his posts some more, seems more newbish than scum. I'm certainly not going to turn a blind eye, but I'll give him the BotD for now.
And despite other people not seeming to care, BobTheLob is quite suspicious to me. Lurker extraordinaire and his last post doesn't elicit much confidence imo.
##Vote Analectus What is your opinion on JH's read on hopeless1der? Why do you feel that Anacletus is a scummier read?
I was suspicious of JH at first because of the seemingly chaotic way he accusing people deciding policy, but I agree now that it was just to get people talking so we could go somewhere rather than seriously accusing people.
Hopeless seems like he's trying to make the best decision with the information we have. I agree that lynching just for information is bad if we have nothing else to go on, but given that we have a couple suspects, we should definitely be lynching one of them since relying on scum to slip up and make it obvious seems very unlikely at this point.
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On July 01 2012 03:53 Myles wrote:
OK, considering we have just over 3 hours left, I'm going to cast my vote for Anacletus. After barely contributing, then barely defending himself, he's pretty much disappeared completely. While not the most damning of evidence, it certainly seems scummy to me since a good way to draw attention from yourself is to lay low and let other people take heat - you know, out of sight out of mind.
Fencer is suspicious, but after looking through all his posts some more, seems more newbish than scum. I'm certainly not going to turn a blind eye, but I'll give him the BotD for now.
And despite other people not seeming to care, BobTheLob is quite suspicious to me. Lurker extraordinaire and his last post doesn't elicit much confidence imo.
##Vote Analectus
Are you kidding me? I've given my reads more so than most of the people in this game. There isn't much way to defend myself this early on other than to say I'm not scum and hanging me will be a huge miss step by the town.
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Also, why would you hang someone on their birthday? That's just wrong!
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Since it states in the rules that you have to vote for arguments sake:
What happens if you dont vote in time?
If everyone votes does the time limt still have to be reaches or do we immediatly have to enter the next stage?
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Non voters will be replaced/modkilled. The day will still end at 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
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United States5162 Posts
On July 01 2012 04:20 Anacletus wrote:
Also, why would you hang someone on their birthday? That's just wrong!
It's also irrelevant.
And I realize there's little someone can say to defend themselves in situations like these, but disappearing for nearly a full day when the FoS is on you doesn't seem to add up. You've given one read on JH, everything else you said was general observations on early mafia games. And your post about people not voting thinking your town doesn't make sense either. If the non-voters were mafia(thus knowing you're town) they would hop on the bandwagon since it was already going strong, and thus not be more suspicious then anyone else.
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Something I'd like to remind everyone about is that this is ABL Mafia, not normal Mafia. Use terms like 'ban', 'troll', 'moderator', etc, please. I think it would make the game more fun! :D
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On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D
I would like to point out that you basicaly used the same argument fencer made several pages ago that he was asleep and just happened to latch on to antoher persons view. It really doesnt matter if your townie or not but your post is especially bad because not only do you cast suspicion on your self for no reason you are in no way helping the town if in fact you are a townie. If you had simply read the thread you would have seen the same thing happening to fencer.
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^Just to be clear, are you or aren't you accusing me of lying about being asleep during the beginning of the game? I have evidence to the contrary in the form of my post history, as I posted many times during the early morning and the following day.
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im just saying that BobtheLob's post is basically stupid.
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On July 01 2012 04:50 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D I would like to point out that you basicaly used the same argument fencer made several pages ago that he was asleep and just happened to latch on to antoher persons view. It really doesnt matter if your townie or not but your post is especially bad because not only do you cast suspicion on your self for no reason you are in no way helping the town if in fact you are a townie. If you had simply read the thread you would have seen the same thing happening to fencer.
Wait so you're saying that because I point out that I couldn't post responses to the statements that I hadn't been posting because I was asleep, and saying that I don't post much anyway so not talking much wouldn't be indicative of anything, means that I'm not helping? I was debating the points others have, and by doing so am causing discussion (Which is what we want). So if I may ask if you are accusing me of something just come out and say it.
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I just was just saying that if you had read what had happened earlier to fencer you would have not stated that you didnt get the chance to post for whatever reason wether town or not. It gets the suspicion on you no matter what because suspicion got casted on fencer for the same exact thing. You dont need any guides or anything to tell you that what you said in that post would cast suspicion on you because we have history of it in this exact.
Since you asked i think you are a bad townie.
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EBWOP Your post calling us out are just as, if not more so useless by your own points.
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How long is it until the day is done?
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Day 1 Final Vote Count:
Anacletus (7): BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact, iamperfection, Myles, Promethelax
Intact (1): Anacletus
Fencer710 (1): Hopeless1der
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, JingleHell
Not Voted: NrGmonk
Anacletus has been lynched Day 1. NrGmonk will be replaced for failing to vote.
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End of Day 1
After a long day of investigation, analysis of a small mountain of evidence, and thorough deliberation by the trusty posters of the Automated Ban List a suspect emerges. The case is forwarded to the TL admins, who consider the case. It seems hard that they could be betrayed by this man, he’s always been so loyal and trusting. But the evidence against him is too strong; they move swiftly to make the ban.
Through a desperate series of PMs the accused pleads with the admins to recognize his innocence and to have mercy on him. But there can be no mercy, not a moment’s pause if the admins are to stop this insane conspiracy.
ghost_403 waits silently for their decision, convinced that yet another member of the conspiracy is about to fall. He hears a humming noise, and looks down to see a new text message. The message is from an unknown number, with a simple note: “You stupid fool. The admins are going to delete one of their own, all while I get ever closer to taking over TL. You’re ABL companions are proving to be useful after all. Hahaha.” ghost_403 looks at his phone, perplexed. It couldn’t be, how could he text from where he is? Suddenly, the phone rang, startling ghost. He cautiously answered it. At the other end was an officer from the county jail. “There’s been an incident. TheToast was mistakenly released this morning. We think someone hacked our system.” ghost_403 suddenly felt sick.
The text had been from TheToast, which meant the TL admins were about to ban an innocent man. But with no account he had no way of reaching the TL admins. The TL admins had just finished the process of banning and deleting one of their own. It was too late; the conspiracy had won this round.
Anacletus, playing the part of GMarshal the Jailer, has been lynched!
It is now Night 1. If you have night actions, please PM them to me, TheToast, and GMarshal in a PM with the title 'NMMXIX Night 1 Action'. Night 1 ends in 24 hours, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00)
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I hate you guys so much, you have no idea.
This is how I feel right now!
![[image loading]](http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u205/Jacksparrow2406/duh-hamster.jpg)
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United States5162 Posts
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The deadline times are kinda screwed up, i don't get it. Deadline is really 5pm EST, which TL parses as 22:00 GMT (+00:00). It's been that way since the begining, and it's been 48hrs since the beginning of Day 1.
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Ghost, I think you dropped the hammer an hour early. My understanding was that the days ended at 00:00 CEST, which is in 45 more minutes!
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Ok, I guess I understood the times wrong.
Ok, so... fuck.
I've got to go to bed. My experience from the previous game I played is that there's no benefit to town of discussing anything at night, so I suggest we all do our own analysis and then post our thoughts when night ends.
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On July 01 2012 06:19 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Ghost, I think you dropped the hammer an hour early. My understanding was that the days ended at 00:00 CEST, which is in 45 more minutes!
Day one started at 6:00KST, which means the day lasted for exactly 48 hours. The 24 hours and 12 hours remaining notices were precisely on time. Ghost just got the time conversion to NA time incorrect, but because the day was exactly 48 hours, it shouldn't affect the game at all. However, I'm discussing with him right now whether or not NRGmonk should be replaced for missing the deadline
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Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information.
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On July 01 2012 06:25 JingleHell wrote:
Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information.
I think we should save discussion for morning. Posting our thoughts during the night just gives the PBUs more information to consider when picking their night hit.
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On July 01 2012 06:27 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:25 JingleHell wrote:
Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information. I think we should save discussion for morning. Posting our thoughts during the night just gives the PBUs more information to consider when picking their night hit.
They already have us over a barrel. Besides, if it goes anything like the day did, they're probably too busy laughing in /r/ablmafia about the incompetent Nazi modding happening.
I mean, let's face it, most of the discussion sounded like a Failsafe blog.
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Holy shit wazzle!
We fucked up big.
I was so excited all day to come back from work and see that we had gotten a scum but instead we lynched our own JK?? This blows. I feel like the case against him was strong but I don't understand why he didn't caim to try to save himself, I bet he wishes he had two lvies now. I wish he did too.
So, we messed up big time here. Its okay, we can still recover and make a big comeback. I have been re-reading Anacletus' filter and I suggest you all do the same. Remember, everything he said was said by a confirmed townie. He may not have been right but at least we know his motivations.
This is what I have found of his:
On June 29 2012 07:12 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 07:05 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 06:48 JingleHell wrote:
So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post! Bah, you always know how to hit me where it hurts! I regrettably admit to taking a rusted bike chain and strangling the sheriff. But if there's one thing that I didn't do, I didn't shoot the god damn deputy. See, that's the sort of thing that makes me wonder more seriously. You could easily be trying to pre-establish an alibi for any scum behavior. You let me take the lead, but when I started pushing for participation, you jumped in with a weak suggestion, and now this. It's obviously rather weak as far as tells go, but it's more than I have on any of the people who aren't posting. And Myles, what could I possibly be distracting from at this point? I'm the only one wanting to find these scum and get rid of them. Anacletus suggested we just start hunting, so I started hunting. If you want to contribute, maybe you should chime in on policy, or announce yourself, or do basically anything besides a low content post that won't help the situation. JingleHell makes some extremely valid points. Myles, why are you suddenly trying to defend me? Are you trying to set up and alibi for yourself for if I get killed and turn town?
to begin with we find this little tidbit, I hadn't remembered this exchange but I find it interesting. Myles did exactly what Anacletus said and now we see that Anacletus was town...something to think about certainly.
And here we get a town read from a confirmed townie, well done JH
On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes.
Here are his scum reads:
On June 30 2012 05:23 Anacletus wrote:Yeah, I'm not mafia. You guys are mainly voting for me because I said I had reads that I wasn't sharing. I did share what I thought later, I think that the people who talk a lot early are mainly townies, however those that come in to bandwagon voting seem very suspicious to me. Both of them really haven't supplied much information at all and just voted for me after several others did.
Intact and Fencer I'm watching you. Mostly you Fencer, mostly you.
Those are all of his reads with analysis in them. I think we should take a good hard look at what he has to say, remember, he may not be right but his motives were.
@Anacletus: I'm sorry man. Happy birthday and don't worry, we'll still win this.
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EBWOP: in the first real paragraph I meant to write claim and lives
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Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think?
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NrGmonk will be replaced.
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On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think?
I'll go back and look at it, it isn't fair to you to call it our case though. I noticed and mentioned the stupid play, you made a real case.
I would urge you to go back and re-read my case on Fencer, I think it is even stronger now that Anacletus has flipped green.
I'll post my thoughts about the wonder when I have re-read your case and his filter.
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United States5162 Posts
So I guess we're not going to wait until day to discuss stuff?
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On July 01 2012 08:00 ghost_403 wrote:
NrGmonk will be replaced.
But I thought that replacements were for chumps.
Who is joining in?
@whoever joins: start posting some real things: Monk hasn't given us anything and we need more people posting, whether town or scum. We can't win if everyone decides to lurk.
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On July 01 2012 08:04 Myles wrote:
So I guess we're not going to wait until day to discuss stuff?
Why would we? Sorry if this got talked about earlier when I get home from work I do my best to catch up but I could have easily missed this.
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United States8476 Posts
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United States5162 Posts
^
On July 01 2012 06:27 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:25 JingleHell wrote:
Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information. I think we should save discussion for morning. Posting our thoughts during the night just gives the PBUs more information to consider when picking their night hit.
Because of what this guy wrote.
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On July 01 2012 08:03 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think? I'll go back and look at it, it isn't fair to you to call it our case though. I noticed and mentioned the stupid play, you made a real case. I would urge you to go back and re-read my case on Fencer, I think it is even stronger now that Anacletus has flipped green. I'll post my thoughts about the wonder when I have re-read your case and his filter.
I still think Fencer is scummy, too, which is why I mentioned the Hopeless vote on him, as it makes one of them look less scummy if the other flips, but was done in a way that it didn't overcommit the vote, either.
However, if I have to take two people who are similarly scummy, I'm going to end up dropping a vote on the one who seems more dangerous, which currently feels like Hopeless.
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On July 01 2012 08:07 Myles wrote:^ Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:27 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 01 2012 06:25 JingleHell wrote:
Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information. I think we should save discussion for morning. Posting our thoughts during the night just gives the PBUs more information to consider when picking their night hit. Because of what this guy wrote.
Oooh, look who deigns to "contribute".
Who's worried about it? For one, it's N1, they can't have rolechecked yet if they have a checker. For two, regardless of when we talk, there's two options without them having a check yet. They can either shoot someone to shut them up, or shoot someone so we think they wanted them shut up.
We won't know which it was either way, so why sweat it?
The scum have a very huge lead on information at this point. We win based on getting perceptions and communicating, along with superior numbers. We can meta-game ourselves to the point of manic paranoia, or we can do what needs to be done and nail these scum to the wall.
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United States5162 Posts
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
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On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
When the vote was secured on a townie, or close to it, why WOULD scum be voting on Anacletus? Maybe some did, but certainly not all of them.
In fact, given your general level of suspicious behavior, the fact that you tried to get people to stop posting at night while Hopeless was under the radar, and your conspicuous lack of discussion on my read of Hopeless, I'm really starting to think you're scummy.
And since you pointed at Fencer as top on suspicion, I'm dropping him to a notch below Hopeless on my Scum-o-meter.
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EBWOP: Yes, I know you can point out that I didn't end the day on Anacletus either. I'm going to let my reasoning I did throughout the day stand for itself on that, and hope my discussion and logic can stand on their own two legs.
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On July 01 2012 08:07 Myles wrote:^ Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:27 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 01 2012 06:25 JingleHell wrote:
Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information. I think we should save discussion for morning. Posting our thoughts during the night just gives the PBUs more information to consider when picking their night hit. Because of what this guy wrote.
Well that is dumb, more information is always better for town. Seriously why would anyone say that? He isn't scummy enough for me too make a case on him but if we have a DT that wouldn't be a bad night check just to make sure he is dumb and not scum.
On July 01 2012 08:09 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:03 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think? I'll go back and look at it, it isn't fair to you to call it our case though. I noticed and mentioned the stupid play, you made a real case. I would urge you to go back and re-read my case on Fencer, I think it is even stronger now that Anacletus has flipped green. I'll post my thoughts about the wonder when I have re-read your case and his filter. I still think Fencer is scummy, too, which is why I mentioned the Hopeless vote on him, as it makes one of them look less scummy if the other flips, but was done in a way that it didn't overcommit the vote, either. However, if I have to take two people who are similarly scummy, I'm going to end up dropping a vote on the one who seems more dangerous, which currently feels like Hopeless.
I think you are right about Hopeless, he does seem scummy. I'm just not sure that he seems more scummy than Fencer. I'm not too comfortable with how hard it was to get the ball rolling on the fencer case, he seemed really scummy and as momentum built only Hopeless joined in the case. He seems like he was trying to get in there early enough to seem town but was real happy to not nail Anacletus.
Thinking about this more I wonder if a Fencer+Hopeless+someone else scumteam is possible? What are your thoughts?
If that is true the third scum is almost 100% in the Anacletus voters, of those I would look hardest at Intact since that is who Anacletus voted for. I don't think it would be Umlat since he mad the first vote and called out Fencer on his flippy floppy, and I know it is not me. I think it is more likely to be one of the middle guys: BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Intact and iamperfection. I would look long and hard at Bob as well, he hasn't posted a damn thing.
ARGH! I'm just frustrated now, I was so sure we had scum when we lynched Anacletus.
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Promethelax: A tip, hit refresh before posting, and if there's a new page, copy, go to it, and paste into the box. Then you can update your post for the latest post.
Since I answered those questions already. I'm currently looking at Hopeless, Myles, and Fencer.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 01 2012 08:20 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
When the vote was secured on a townie, or close to it, why WOULD scum be voting on Anacletus? Maybe some did, but certainly not all of them. In fact, given your general level of suspicious behavior, the fact that you tried to get people to stop posting at night while Hopeless was under the radar, and your conspicuous lack of discussion on my read of Hopeless, I'm really starting to think you're scummy. And since you pointed at Fencer as top on suspicion, I'm dropping him to a notch below Hopeless on my Scum-o-meter.
I think the scum would keep on Anecletus to not draw attention to themselves and keep the heat on him. I would agree that is possible one didn't vote for him, I just don't just have a heavy scum read on any of you.
I talked about your read of Hopeless when AmericanUmlaut asked me about it, and AmericanUmlaut suggested we not post at night and I thought his reasoning was valid.
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Yeah, my bad. This thread is usually so inactive it doesn't matter (let's work on that guys, we can't win if we lurk and there must be town among the lurkers)
Though I don't like to limit my options those three seem scummy, I'm happy to start digging.
Off to filter land I go. Also to grab a bite to eat, I'll be back in a minute.
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On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think?
Jingle, I didn't think Anacletus or Fencer were/are scum but I didnt want to No-Lynch. My vote went to Fencer to delay a hammer and hope some discussion was mounted to push it over the edge and hopefully generating some scumtells as the mafia pushed to get a mislynch, but Promethelax forced the issue since he couldn't be here at the deadline.
I pushed Anacletus in two posts to try and get him to start contributing and he instead clammed up and got himself lynched without much of a fight. The case against him wasn't all that strong to begin with, but with the amount of bandwagoning he took early, anything he did would have looked like a desperate attempt to throw the attention off of him.
He seemed to think the people who didnt vote for him are where the scum lie. I am of the impression that 2 of the 3 voted for him, and 1 did not, just to try and keep options open while managing to manipulate town into a mislynch.
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On July 01 2012 08:27 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:20 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
When the vote was secured on a townie, or close to it, why WOULD scum be voting on Anacletus? Maybe some did, but certainly not all of them. In fact, given your general level of suspicious behavior, the fact that you tried to get people to stop posting at night while Hopeless was under the radar, and your conspicuous lack of discussion on my read of Hopeless, I'm really starting to think you're scummy. And since you pointed at Fencer as top on suspicion, I'm dropping him to a notch below Hopeless on my Scum-o-meter. I think the scum would keep on Anecletus to not draw attention to themselves and keep the heat on him. I would agree that is possible one didn't vote for him, I just don't just have a heavy scum read on any of you. I talked about your read of Hopeless when AmericanUmlaut asked me about it, and AmericanUmlaut suggested we not post at night and I thought his reasoning was valid.
You mean when you said next to nothing, dragged it over a couple of paragraphs, and defended Hopeless? That's convincing me you're not scum.
On July 01 2012 04:05 Myles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 03:58 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 03:53 Myles wrote:
OK, considering we have just over 3 hours left, I'm going to cast my vote for Anacletus. After barely contributing, then barely defending himself, he's pretty much disappeared completely. While not the most damning of evidence, it certainly seems scummy to me since a good way to draw attention from yourself is to lay low and let other people take heat - you know, out of sight out of mind.
Fencer is suspicious, but after looking through all his posts some more, seems more newbish than scum. I'm certainly not going to turn a blind eye, but I'll give him the BotD for now.
And despite other people not seeming to care, BobTheLob is quite suspicious to me. Lurker extraordinaire and his last post doesn't elicit much confidence imo.
##Vote Analectus What is your opinion on JH's read on hopeless1der? Why do you feel that Anacletus is a scummier read? I was suspicious of JH at first because of the seemingly chaotic way he accusing people deciding policy, but I agree now that it was just to get people talking so we could go somewhere rather than seriously accusing people. Hopeless seems like he's trying to make the best decision with the information we have. I agree that lynching just for information is bad if we have nothing else to go on, but given that we have a couple suspects, we should definitely be lynching one of them since relying on scum to slip up and make it obvious seems very unlikely at this point.
That wasn't "discussion".
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United States5162 Posts
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning.
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On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning.
When JH did it there was no discussion and he was trying to start it, I disagree with his methods but not his goals.
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On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning.
If you're only going to answer the smallest part of the reasoning, in defense of another person, you're not going to help your own case. This post is clutter at best, and incredibly scummy at worst.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 01 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning. When JH did it there was no discussion and he was trying to start it, I disagree with his methods but not his goals.
I know, and I agreed with that before. It was a valid reason to change focus and I think hopeless read on Fencer was as well.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 01 2012 08:47 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning. If you're only going to answer the smallest part of the reasoning, in defense of another person, you're not going to help your own case. This post is clutter at best, and incredibly scummy at worst.
I thought that was your reasoning. Going back I see the original contention was about a mislynch vs no lynch, which I think given no information a no lynch is better, but I thought it we had a couple reasonable suspects so it wasn't really an issue. There was also the math thing, but that didn't seem too important since deduction can reveal a lot of info. In the end, I just think that Fencer and Bob are way scummier given they haven't tried to help the town at all - one by posting a lot of useless stuff and the other by barely posting at all.
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Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
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Between
On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board?
and
On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on.
something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account.
He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this:
On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion.
where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things.
The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710
which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all.
So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case.
On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU??
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
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On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities?
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EBWOP: similar not simlar. Why can't I spell today?
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On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities?
Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said.
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On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said.
Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide.
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EBWOP, also, we're both taking a gamble this way, because if one of us has mis-read the other at this point, we're likely tied together for a double lynch. In a town like this, where there's little productive activity and heavy dice rolls, there would be no rational reason to take a risk like that if either of us was scum.
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On July 01 2012 06:27 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:25 JingleHell wrote:
Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information. I think we should save discussion for morning. Posting our thoughts during the night just gives the PBUs more information to consider when picking their night hit.
Plus anyone with abilities is going to get a little bit of information. we can overly anlyze everone's post like we did on day 1 and look what that got us. We should wait and move forward with a bit more logic on our side.
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On July 01 2012 09:45 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said. Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide.
Are you using a guide? I've been working based off of what I have read in other mafia threads, I did a bit of research before playing since I was scared as hell.
I don't really get what you mean about how we'd be a double lynch. I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one. I you flip red I guess I will look bad though, I guess I'll hope to hell that I'm right about you and that you are one of us.
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EBWOP: I'm assuming its obvious but Jingle pretty much answered Bob's question for me as well. I have to bounce my ideas off someone and since we don't have a town qt I've got to go with the only other guy in the thread and hope to hell he is green. Thankfully he has only done green feeling things for the last little while and am more confident of him now.
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On July 01 2012 10:12 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:45 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said. Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide. Are you using a guide? I've been working based off of what I have read in other mafia threads, I did a bit of research before playing since I was scared as hell. I don't really get what you mean about how we'd be a double lynch. I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one. I you flip red I guess I will look bad though, I guess I'll hope to hell that I'm right about you and that you are one of us.
I was saying that if we were scum, tying ourselves together for no reason would be suicidal.
I read the guides, and then threw out everything I read except for the mentality type stuff, because frankly, it's all opinions on the best way to metagame other than that, which is just a headache waiting to happen.
I know I'm town, and I'm reasonably confident you are. What do you think of Myles in light of his jumping to defend Hopeless after we started looking at a case against him?
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On July 01 2012 10:15 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 10:12 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:45 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said. Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide. Are you using a guide? I've been working based off of what I have read in other mafia threads, I did a bit of research before playing since I was scared as hell. I don't really get what you mean about how we'd be a double lynch. I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one. I you flip red I guess I will look bad though, I guess I'll hope to hell that I'm right about you and that you are one of us. I was saying that if we were scum, tying ourselves together for no reason would be suicidal. I read the guides, and then threw out everything I read except for the mentality type stuff, because frankly, it's all opinions on the best way to metagame other than that, which is just a headache waiting to happen. I know I'm town, and I'm reasonably confident you are. What do you think of Myles in light of his jumping to defend Hopeless after we started looking at a case against him?
oh, okay that makes a lot more sense. I don't like him but I'm still looking into him, maybe its awful town play? I'm not sure I'm still building the case. I also think I'll just re-link my Fencer case since he is still scummy.
Why do you think Bob chose to come out of the woodwork now? He posted that huge thing with no reads in it and a lot of words. I'd love your opinion.
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On July 01 2012 10:18 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 10:15 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 10:12 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:45 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said. Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide. Are you using a guide? I've been working based off of what I have read in other mafia threads, I did a bit of research before playing since I was scared as hell. I don't really get what you mean about how we'd be a double lynch. I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one. I you flip red I guess I will look bad though, I guess I'll hope to hell that I'm right about you and that you are one of us. I was saying that if we were scum, tying ourselves together for no reason would be suicidal. I read the guides, and then threw out everything I read except for the mentality type stuff, because frankly, it's all opinions on the best way to metagame other than that, which is just a headache waiting to happen. I know I'm town, and I'm reasonably confident you are. What do you think of Myles in light of his jumping to defend Hopeless after we started looking at a case against him? oh, okay that makes a lot more sense. I don't like him but I'm still looking into him, maybe its awful town play? I'm not sure I'm still building the case. I also think I'll just re-link my Fencer case since he is still scummy. Why do you think Bob chose to come out of the woodwork now? He posted that huge thing with no reads in it and a lot of words. I'd love your opinion.
Right now I'm feeling "towny scared out of shell". It's kind of like Anacletus' early posts, it's useless, but it feels almost too useless to be intentional.
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So I see that there is some doubt about me and my posting. I'll try adress that in a couple of hours when I wake up. Just got home from a nightclub so trying to make sense seems like a bad idea right now.
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On July 01 2012 10:20 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 10:18 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 10:15 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 10:12 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:45 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said. Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide. Are you using a guide? I've been working based off of what I have read in other mafia threads, I did a bit of research before playing since I was scared as hell. I don't really get what you mean about how we'd be a double lynch. I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one. I you flip red I guess I will look bad though, I guess I'll hope to hell that I'm right about you and that you are one of us. I was saying that if we were scum, tying ourselves together for no reason would be suicidal. I read the guides, and then threw out everything I read except for the mentality type stuff, because frankly, it's all opinions on the best way to metagame other than that, which is just a headache waiting to happen. I know I'm town, and I'm reasonably confident you are. What do you think of Myles in light of his jumping to defend Hopeless after we started looking at a case against him? oh, okay that makes a lot more sense. I don't like him but I'm still looking into him, maybe its awful town play? I'm not sure I'm still building the case. I also think I'll just re-link my Fencer case since he is still scummy. Why do you think Bob chose to come out of the woodwork now? He posted that huge thing with no reads in it and a lot of words. I'd love your opinion. Right now I'm feeling "towny scared out of shell". It's kind of like Anacletus' early posts, it's useless, but it feels almost too useless to be intentional.
I prefer "Paranoid as hell dude who has no idea what to do" to "towny scared out of shell" JH.
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The case on Myles (or Myles to go before I sleep):
The first page of our young hero's filter is made up of one line posts which range from soft defense of Anacletus
On June 29 2012 07:08 Myles wrote:
JingleHell, you sure are yippity. And creating quite the distraction...
So soft you might call it flaccid, to talking about what a newb he is
On June 29 2012 21:07 Myles wrote:
Considering this is my first game, I hadn't put any thought into the idea that JH and Anacletus working together to create misinformation. Though, one of my first instincts when JH took the lead, but didn't really send us in any particular direction other than witch hunts and suggested we not take a very defined course of action, was that it seemed like he was trying to look like he was contributing without really doing so.
I see Anacletus in a similar vein. That 6 out of his first 7 posts were jokes threw up red flags for me, and though his latest posts have been relevant and worthwhile for the most part, I'm still a bit leery.
As for lurkers, Monk has posted twice, once to defend himself from JH random accusations. BobTheLob has posted twice, neither time saying too much. Blind-Rawr hasn't posted much either, but his posts have been pretty good. Besides that, everyone else has been pretty active.
Now back to work.
I've already made it clear how I feel about claiming newbie in a newb game, I won't say more on that subject. You'll see in the above post two soft defenses of town players (JH and Anacletus), I don't trust a soft defense it is too easy for mafia to completely ignore the player being looked at and instead talk about something different when the player flips green (which mafia obviously knows they will) the soft defender looks fine since he had nothing to do with killing a townie.
This post:
On July 01 2012 02:29 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Myles: You're right to a certain extent. I was looking at your and Monk's contributions specifically because you were the only two not to have cast a vote. However, just because two players have the same post count doesn't mean they're making the same contribution. The vast majority of your posts so far have been filler that haven't added in any meaningful way to the conversation. For the record, I don't have a scummy read on you, I just feel like you could be contributing more with your posting.
JH: Less nuttiness, and more posts like that, please! I for one am persuaded. I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far.
##Unvote Anacletus
##Vote Hopeless1der
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. Nearly all of my posts have been about policy or reads, or a question about policy. I still don't see how the are non-contributing. I still wonder why Bob is flying so low below the radar when he's posted nothing expect to bandwagon on Anacletusm, which everyone seemed to ignore.
really threw me for a loop since up to this point at least half of Myles posts have been about silly things like set-up and jokes, why claim something that just isn;t true? Maybe he was hoping that no one would read his filter? Well I'm hoping that you will since that is what we need to do to build cases and find scum.
Here Myles lies again
On July 01 2012 04:42 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 04:20 Anacletus wrote:
Also, why would you hang someone on their birthday? That's just wrong! It's also irrelevant. And I realize there's little someone can say to defend themselves in situations like these, but disappearing for nearly a full day when the FoS is on you doesn't seem to add up. You've given one read on JH, everything else you said was general observations on early mafia games. And your post about people not voting thinking your town doesn't make sense either. If the non-voters were mafia(thus knowing you're town) they would hop on the bandwagon since it was already going strong, and thus not be more suspicious then anyone else.
When in fact Anacletus had given three reads as I have shown earlier. Maybe he was exaggerating for dramatic effect? Its possible and if that was the case I wouldn't hold it against him.
Do you know what Myles had to say about the fact that we mislynched our JK? Do you? No? Well let me let him tell you:
On July 01 2012 06:14 Myles wrote:
It's only 17:00 EDT...
that is it, his first post after the night post in its entirety. Seriously? I was pissed, others were disappointed and Myles just looked at his watch.
I've bolded a key phrase in this next post
On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
I'd like you to think about that, he hopes he has explained himself enough to get the benefit of the doubt. Not that he hopes to prove that he is town or that someone else is scum he just wants to have a respite from being attacked, he wants us to lay off of him and give him a break even though his posts were scummy. He wants the benefit of the doubt but hasn't proved why he should get it.
I realize I'm just tooting my own horn here but I thnk people might have missed this
On July 01 2012 08:48 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning. When JH did it there was no discussion and he was trying to start it, I disagree with his methods but not his goals. I know, and I agreed with that before. It was a valid reason to change focus and I think hopeless read on Fencer was as well.
read the whole thing. Myles says that he JH did the same thing as fencer so it isn't scummy and, when I mentioned why JH did that Myles was quick to back off while citing a previous agreement with the reasoning. He tried to make JH lay off of Fencer but somehow forgot that he has to remain consistent with his own opinions.
So read this and make up your own mind, why is Myles posting this way?Is he just stopping here to watch this thread fill up with spam or does he know whose town this is and Myles has to go?
Pre-edit: I really wanted to make that Robert Frost reference but I don't think it was very good, ah well.
JH: okay I'll assume Bob is being useless and not scummy right now. I'm still keeping an eye on him though.
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Yeah, I think Myles is looking pretty reasonable right now, and assuming he flips red, Hopeless, after Myles overcomitted to defending him.
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I'm out for a while, I'll be back later tonight.
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United States5162 Posts
Well, I guess I try and save myself because you guys are going to make things even harder for you.
On July 01 2012 10:57 Promethelax wrote:The case on Myles (or Myles to go before I sleep): The first page of our young hero's filter is made up of one line posts which range from soft defense of Anacletus Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:08 Myles wrote:
JingleHell, you sure are yippity. And creating quite the distraction... So soft you might call it flaccid, to talking about what a newb he is
Looking back, it was a bad way to say I didn't like the chaotic way he was going about things.
Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:07 Myles wrote:
Considering this is my first game, I hadn't put any thought into the idea that JH and Anacletus working together to create misinformation. Though, one of my first instincts when JH took the lead, but didn't really send us in any particular direction other than witch hunts and suggested we not take a very defined course of action, was that it seemed like he was trying to look like he was contributing without really doing so.
I see Anacletus in a similar vein. That 6 out of his first 7 posts were jokes threw up red flags for me, and though his latest posts have been relevant and worthwhile for the most part, I'm still a bit leery.
As for lurkers, Monk has posted twice, once to defend himself from JH random accusations. BobTheLob has posted twice, neither time saying too much. Blind-Rawr hasn't posted much either, but his posts have been pretty good. Besides that, everyone else has been pretty active.
Now back to work. I've already made it clear how I feel about claiming newbie in a newb game, I won't say more on that subject. You'll see in the above post two soft defenses of town players (JH and Anacletus), I don't trust a soft defense it is too easy for mafia to completely ignore the player being looked at and instead talk about something different when the player flips green (which mafia obviously knows they will) the soft defender looks fine since he had nothing to do with killing a townie.
That was 6 hours into the game and it seemed revelent. As for a soft defense, again, it was early so I was going on little information, which was mixed.
This post: Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:29 Myles wrote:On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Myles: You're right to a certain extent. I was looking at your and Monk's contributions specifically because you were the only two not to have cast a vote. However, just because two players have the same post count doesn't mean they're making the same contribution. The vast majority of your posts so far have been filler that haven't added in any meaningful way to the conversation. For the record, I don't have a scummy read on you, I just feel like you could be contributing more with your posting.
JH: Less nuttiness, and more posts like that, please! I for one am persuaded. I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far.
##Unvote Anacletus
##Vote Hopeless1der
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. Nearly all of my posts have been about policy or reads, or a question about policy. I still don't see how the are non-contributing. I still wonder why Bob is flying so low below the radar when he's posted nothing expect to bandwagon on Anacletusm, which everyone seemed to ignore. really threw me for a loop since up to this point at least half of Myles posts have been about silly things like set-up and jokes, why claim something that just isn;t true? Maybe he was hoping that no one would read his filter? Well I'm hoping that you will since that is what we need to do to build cases and find scum.
Half of my posts have been set up and jokes? Maybe I'm misunderstanding set up, but at that point here's my posts I would on the topic of policy/suspicion
+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 07:08 Myles wrote:
JingleHell, you sure are yippity. And creating quite the distraction... On June 29 2012 07:17 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:12 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 07:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 07:05 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 06:48 JingleHell wrote:
So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post! Bah, you always know how to hit me where it hurts! I regrettably admit to taking a rusted bike chain and strangling the sheriff. But if there's one thing that I didn't do, I didn't shoot the god damn deputy. See, that's the sort of thing that makes me wonder more seriously. You could easily be trying to pre-establish an alibi for any scum behavior. You let me take the lead, but when I started pushing for participation, you jumped in with a weak suggestion, and now this. It's obviously rather weak as far as tells go, but it's more than I have on any of the people who aren't posting. And Myles, what could I possibly be distracting from at this point? I'm the only one wanting to find these scum and get rid of them. Anacletus suggested we just start hunting, so I started hunting. If you want to contribute, maybe you should chime in on policy, or announce yourself, or do basically anything besides a low content post that won't help the situation. JingleHell makes some extremely valid points. Myles, why are you suddenly trying to defend me? Are you trying to set up and alibi for yourself for if I get killed and turn town? Not really defending you, just wondering why he's taking such a lead when we have nothing to go on. Starting a witch hunt is only going to get innocent people killed me thinks. Also, when did you suggest we start hunting? On June 29 2012 07:21 Myles wrote:
I was going to say...
And don't people have to post anyways? Are we going to say anyone who makes small or meaningless posts is a lurker? On June 29 2012 07:35 Myles wrote:How do you witch hunt in way that flushes out the actual scum? I think we need to be a little more deliberate here. Show nested quote +This is a semi-open setup. You will know which roles may appear in the game but not the number. Well, there is at least one vanilla townie. But that's all you know. When I interpret to mean that there can be more than one Heyoka or Complete Asshole and that there might be multiple roles not filled, am I correct? On June 29 2012 07:51 Myles wrote:
I think getting people to talk is a good idea, and if a witch hunt is the only way to that than so be it. And I don't really have a better idea, so witch hunt it is I guess. On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. On June 29 2012 09:53 Myles wrote:
Actually, the fact that Anacletus has made 1 serious post out of 5 since the game started is somewhat suspicious to me as well. On June 29 2012 21:07 Myles wrote:
Considering this is my first game, I hadn't put any thought into the idea that JH and Anacletus working together to create misinformation. Though, one of my first instincts when JH took the lead, but didn't really send us in any particular direction other than witch hunts and suggested we not take a very defined course of action, was that it seemed like he was trying to look like he was contributing without really doing so.
I see Anacletus in a similar vein. That 6 out of his first 7 posts were jokes threw up red flags for me, and though his latest posts have been relevant and worthwhile for the most part, I'm still a bit leery.
As for lurkers, Monk has posted twice, once to defend himself from JH random accusations. BobTheLob has posted twice, neither time saying too much. Blind-Rawr hasn't posted much either, but his posts have been pretty good. Besides that, everyone else has been pretty active.
Now back to work. On July 01 2012 00:44 Myles wrote:
Umlaut, I don't understand how you could consider me inactive with non-contributing posts. I was one of the first people to question Anecletus for being so non-serious and have 10 posts, which is only a couple less than you; and while they're not essays on meta analysis, I think they do provide some insight into how people are acting.
Either way, I've been just as active and contributive as most. If you want inactive/non-contributing look at Monk and BobTheLob. They have 5 and 3 posts, respectively. Actually, the fact that BobTheLob has posted almost nothing, and has posted none of his own thoughts, but hoped on the bandwagon of Anacletus is kind of surprising to have not risen red flags.
As far as why I stated I'm leaning towards Fencer, it's because nearly his entire post history has been useless. He's done a whole lot of talking about nothing while Anecletus at least contributed a little bit. They top my list as people who could be mafia, but if Bob doesn't speak up I might put him up there, too.
vs posts that didn't say much/anything
+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 12:14 Myles wrote:
I'm going to bed and have work in the morning so now don't anybody freak out if I don't post for 12 hours or so. But my thoughts on Anacletus are at the top of the page and he hasn't done anything to lesson that. On June 30 2012 01:47 Myles wrote:
Sarcasm really doesn't work over the interwebs -_- Even as newbie, I thought it was obvious it's nearly impossible to have 3 pages of notes on people when the game had only been open for a couple hours.
Anyway, I think Anacletus is still suspicious. Despite that, I'm not ready to vote for him yet because I don't think starting off non-serious is that scummy considering there was pretty much nothing to go on, and we still have over a day before night falls. I'd would like to hear some more from him, though.
And Fencer, I don't think you're making yourself look very good either.
Here Myles lies again Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 04:42 Myles wrote:On July 01 2012 04:20 Anacletus wrote:
Also, why would you hang someone on their birthday? That's just wrong! It's also irrelevant. And I realize there's little someone can say to defend themselves in situations like these, but disappearing for nearly a full day when the FoS is on you doesn't seem to add up. You've given one read on JH, everything else you said was general observations on early mafia games. And your post about people not voting thinking your town doesn't make sense either. If the non-voters were mafia(thus knowing you're town) they would hop on the bandwagon since it was already going strong, and thus not be more suspicious then anyone else. When in fact Anacletus had given three reads as I have shown earlier. Maybe he was exaggerating for dramatic effect? Its possible and if that was the case I wouldn't hold it against him.
Maybe this is a difference in opinion. This is the only post of his I think is a read on a player.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes.
Do you know what Myles had to say about the fact that we mislynched our JK? Do you? No? Well let me let him tell you: that is it, his first post after the night post in its entirety. Seriously? I was pissed, others were disappointed and Myles just looked at his watch.
There's no real good way to post after we fucked up imo. No matter what I posted there it could be interpreted as an albi or not caring.
I've bolded a key phrase in this next post Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
I'd like you to think about that, he hopes he has explained himself enough to get the benefit of the doubt. Not that he hopes to prove that he is town or that someone else is scum he just wants to have a respite from being attacked, he wants us to lay off of him and give him a break even though his posts were scummy. He wants the benefit of the doubt but hasn't proved why he should get it.
JH had taken an interest in me because I thought Umlaut's proposal made some sense and had answered his question that I didn't think Hopeless's posts were that scummy. I didn't even make a big defense of him, just answered a question on what I though about him and then defended my position when JH questioned it.
I realize I'm just tooting my own horn here but I thnk people might have missed this Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:48 Myles wrote:On July 01 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning. When JH did it there was no discussion and he was trying to start it, I disagree with his methods but not his goals. I know, and I agreed with that before. It was a valid reason to change focus and I think hopeless read on Fencer was as well. read the whole thing. Myles says that he JH did the same thing as fencer so it isn't scummy and, when I mentioned why JH did that Myles was quick to back off while citing a previous agreement with the reasoning. He tried to make JH lay off of Fencer but somehow forgot that he has to remain consistent with his own opinions. So read this and make up your own mind, why is Myles posting this way?Is he just stopping here to watch this thread fill up with spam or does he know whose town this is and Myles has to go? Pre-edit: I really wanted to make that Robert Frost reference but I don't think it was very good, ah well. JH: okay I'll assume Bob is being useless and not scummy right now. I'm still keeping an eye on him though.
I really don't get this one. I said changing votes based on new info doesn't seem scummy and I never asked JH to back off Fencer as he was the 2nd on my list for a while. I said that Hopeless's change was based off new info so not scummy, the same way that JH had changed many times, early due to trying to create discussion, and later on when he felt Hopeless was incriminating himself, and I don't think that's scummy. On the other hand, Fencer bandwagoned on the Anecletus lynch, quickly changed his mind when blind-rawr mention lurkers, then hopped right back on as soon as someone else voted. That seems a lot more suspicious to me.
And I'll make the Robert Frost reference for you considering I've heard it a million times.
Miles to go before I sleep.
Except this time it might be at 6 feet.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
huge huge bummer on the anacletus misread, damn man he could have at least defended himself better or even roleclaimed if he had to.
Its night now but I hope we have some DTs do checks and build cases off them or else we are in trouble going into day 2.
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United States5162 Posts
Well, this is probably only going to make me look worse, but I made a mistake explaining myself.
Show nested quote +
I've bolded a key phrase in this next post
Show nested quote +
I'd like you to think about that, he hopes he has explained himself enough to get the benefit of the doubt. Not that he hopes to prove that he is town or that someone else is scum he just wants to have a respite from being attacked, he wants us to lay off of him and give him a break even though his posts were scummy. He wants the benefit of the doubt but hasn't proved why he should get it.
JH had taken an interest in me because I thought Umlaut's proposal made some sense and had answered his question that I didn't think Hopeless's posts were that scummy. I didn't even make a big defense of him, just answered a question on what I though about him and then defended my position when JH questioned it.
That part there is inaccurate. JH hadn't begin to seriously accuse me yet. I got things wrong I think due to be flustered by the all the suspicion being thrown at me. Remembering correctly, I just figured since I was pointed at a bit before that I would be likely to fingered again. By adding it in there it only made things worse, I guess, and this probably only seals my fate.
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On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:
SNIP
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
You've lost me Promethelax. My statement pertained to No Lynch and Mislynch (intentional or otherwise). Are you saying No Lynch is preferable? Because I'm saying Mislynch is preferable. Oh wait, when you cast your vote:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks.
Your actions agree with my conclusion, whether you agree with the deduction itself or not.
My 'non-committal' posts (at least towards Anacletus) were in fact a good read by me to identify someone being bandwagoned for a weak case. I can't decide if you and JH tunneling me so far is actually scummy or not, but don't for one goddamn second think I don't know what I'm doing.
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I'm going to bed, see you all in the morning
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Still looking for a replacement for NrGmonk. Contact me if you're interested.
If he cannot be replaced by the end of the next day, he will be modkilled.
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On July 01 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:
SNIP
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
You've lost me Promethelax. My statement pertained to No Lynch and Mislynch (intentional or otherwise). Are you saying No Lynch is preferable? Because I'm saying Mislynch is preferable. Oh wait, when you cast your vote: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. Your actions agree with my conclusion, whether you agree with the deduction itself or not. My 'non-committal' posts (at least towards Anacletus) were in fact a good read by me to identify someone being bandwagoned for a weak case. I can't decide if you and JH tunneling me so far is actually scummy or not, but don't for one goddamn second think I don't know what I'm doing.
If you start basing your defense off an attack, it looks like an OMGUS. You should start by defending points against yourself first, then, if you feel there's a case, turn it around second.
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End of Night 1
ERROR WITH FLAVOR GENERATOR.
TheToast is in the shop getting repaired this weekend. Flavor soon to follow.
JingleHell playing the part of a the ABL Poster, has been found dead!
Day 2 has begin. You have 48 hours to decide on your next lynch. Deadline is at 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
And sorry for the lack of flavor. We'll get right on fixing that.
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It looks like JingeHell was killed for being intelligent, rather than being specifically suspicious of anyone. We should probably look into the Lurkers of this thread.
Although just to be safe, we should also check Hopeless again.
Where's the replacement?
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EBWOP: I forgot to bold my question.
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Hey guys!
Fuck this who is going to work on cases with mee noow? JH was mah buddy.
(SORRY ABOUT SAYING DUMB THINGS IF I DO, drunk for canada day and the beerrs are saying the dumb things, not me)
So JH is dead...WE need too acctually startt working together since I can't just work with myself on this one and I can't jsut carry town all the way.
You know what the lasst thing my man JH Said in this thread?? He was all up on Hopeless. See this here
On July 01 2012 22:10 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote:On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:
SNIP
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
You've lost me Promethelax. My statement pertained to No Lynch and Mislynch (intentional or otherwise). Are you saying No Lynch is preferable? Because I'm saying Mislynch is preferable. Oh wait, when you cast your vote: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. Your actions agree with my conclusion, whether you agree with the deduction itself or not. My 'non-committal' posts (at least towards Anacletus) were in fact a good read by me to identify someone being bandwagoned for a weak case. I can't decide if you and JH tunneling me so far is actually scummy or not, but don't for one goddamn second think I don't know what I'm doing. If you start basing your defense off an attack, it looks like an OMGUS. You should start by defending points against yourself first, then, if you feel there's a case, turn it around second.
was JH tell scum to sit down and shut up. JH wasn't going to take no OMGUS shit from scum and neither should we so, based on his readsand the ccase he and I made yesterday I'm feeling very Red feelings from Hopeless.
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On July 01 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:
SNIP
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
You've lost me Promethelax. My statement pertained to No Lynch and Mislynch (intentional or otherwise). Are you saying No Lynch is preferable? Because I'm saying Mislynch is preferable. Oh wait, when you cast your vote: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. Your actions agree with my conclusion, whether you agree with the deduction itself or not. My 'non-committal' posts (at least towards Anacletus) were in fact a good read by me to identify someone being bandwagoned for a weak case. I can't decide if you and JH tunneling me so far is actually scummy or not, but don't for one goddamn second think I don't know what I'm doing.
Nonono no, no. I'm saying your conclusion was a townie one but your reasoning was a dumb as a rock one. If you know what you are doing why diid you make a post that says that a mislynch is better for us than a no lynch??? A scum lynch is better for us and wee should get one, I thought I was lynching scum when I lynched Analfist and didn't think we'd mislynch. You said a mislynch is good for us which is obviously isn't.
Lynchinf SCummy sccum scum=good
Lynching green townie playing stupid=bad
thats is it man, simple.
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Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer)
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On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer)
I think it's a bit of both. One person that is extremely suspicious in my eyes is Intact, who was never looked at seriously by JingleHell. Of course, Hopeless is also suspicious because JingleHell's (second) last post before death was against him, as were all the posts including Hopeless before that.
I think the dead men got their votes right, but we will have to wait for the accused responses to be sure. For the moment, FoS on both Intact and Hopeless1der.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:Between Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board? and Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on. something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account. He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things. The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all. So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU?? Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
I believe he has also completely ignored Intact as well, and vice versa. This makes me even more certain that they are Mafia.
##Vote Hopeless1der
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On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer)
Gin and tognic now!
If JH dead I die next nigght unless medic. I'm only town taking lead, I think scum look at me and JH, ccoinflip lands on a crumb so it comms up JH. They decide kill me nixt night.
Still think reads good: JH and I on same path.
FoS Hopless and Myless and little bet Fencer too.
I lik eBob now, he is drinky too! But too lurkey.
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On July 02 2012 08:09 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) I think it's a bit of both. One person that is extremely suspicious in my eyes is Intact, who was never looked at seriously by JingleHell. Of course, Hopeless is also suspicious because JingleHell's (second) last post before death was against him, as were all the posts including Hopeless before that. I think the dead men got their votes right, but we will have to wait for the accused responses to be sure. For the moment, FoS on both Intact and Hopeless1der.
This is a big reason to think carefully on what the scum is trying to do. It makes me extremely suspicious and is a big WIFOM situation.
The most likely options are that either:
I'm scum and I'm trying to shut him up
or
I'm getting set up because I've repeatedly challenged Jingle throughout and I am already kind of under suspicion.
Quite frankly I agree that I look really suspicious, but if we try to chase down my case, the scum get a lot of time to spend lurking instead of talking. I'd rather present cases on other players who I think are more suspicious than me.
Fencer, what specifically pushed you over the edge with promethelaxes case on me? You're bandwagoning again without contributing much to the discussion. I will address the Intact situation shortly. You managed to post that thought as I was going through his filter so this will look like a reactionary post, but so be it.
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On July 02 2012 08:25 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) Gin and tognic now! If JH dead I die next nigght unless medic. I'm only town taking lead, I think scum look at me and JH, ccoinflip lands on a crumb so it comms up JH. They decide kill me nixt night. Still think reads good: JH and I on same path. FoS Hopless and Myless and little bet Fencer too. I lik eBob now, he is drinky too! But too lurkey.
YAY BOOZE :D:D:D:D I'm haveing a bit of lime beer right now because I ran out of coke am going to get more soon
Also <3 spellcheck + chrome !
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Also hopeless makes since now butttttt I still think he's a bit iffy Fencer wit the early vote wtf dude! EXPLAIN
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INTACT:
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On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion.
On June 29 2012 21:37 Intact wrote:
My first guess was Myles, however he is no longer on top of the list(although I will keep an eye on him). I'm leaning mostly towards Analectus, his posts contain very little of value and seems more like a way to avoid being branded a lurker. And like I said before I have seen scum play that is similar to what JH and Analectus is doing.
Intact is sure he's seen this before from scum in previous games...Except they both are dead after D1/N1 and both flipped town.
Following these posts, his next post is (in its entirety)
On June 29 2012 23:28 Intact wrote:
##Vote Analectus
No discussion, no thoughts, just hopping on board.
After promethelax comes in to push his case on Fencer (which no one but me really took to), Intact sees this as a very suspicious move. Promethelax is attempting to flesh out multiple cases on day 1 instead of tunnelling one person, and Intact deems that scum behaviour because it might split the town and cause tension. On the other hand, Anacletus flipped town, so Promethelax had the right idea going after someone else.
He justifies his choice to stand by his vote with:
On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
This is not true in the slightest and just screams scum to me. JH quickly picks up on it:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 10:51 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Uhm, it really doesn't work that way. Because they know that we know that they know that we know... you can get as meta as you want, what it really comes down to is educated guesses, and convincing other people those judgement calls are reasonable. Both sides know the same things, and both sides can try to meta-game. You can't second guess the people who know more than you and get the same updates to info as you. All you can do is look for what they do with the information.
That last line in the spoiler is the biggest point here. Intact is assuming that a lynch would reveal perfect information about who voted. That cant work since town must be involved in the mislynch, so how could you know with certainty who is scum and who is town? Unless you're scum, you cant possibly know after a D1 Lynch.
Finally, he is currently lurking after saying:
On July 01 2012 10:23 Intact wrote:
So I see that there is some doubt about me and my posting. I'll try adress that in a couple of hours when I wake up. Just got home from a nightclub so trying to make sense seems like a bad idea right now.
Maybe he's still hungover? Or maybe he's hoping no one calls him out so he can continue to lurk, post a vote with little to no thought (Seriously read his filter, he barely scratches the surface of suspecting someone), and get away scot-free again.
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United States5162 Posts
It's hard to make a clear read on JH's death when he was a pretty obvious target with how he had taken the lead. We need to get more people talking again or else we won't learn anything. I don't think we should be taking our eyes off the lurkers.
Intact also posted this
On July 01 2012 10:23 Intact wrote:
So I see that there is some doubt about me and my posting. I'll try adress that in a couple of hours when I wake up. Just got home from a nightclub so trying to make sense seems like a bad idea right now. And never posted again after being fingered by Anacletus.
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United States5162 Posts
EBWOP:I should have remembered JH's advice and refreshed before posting.
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On July 02 2012 08:23 Fencer710 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:Between Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board? and Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on. something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account. He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things. The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all. So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU?? Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter. EBWOP: Holy *** I completely missed this post. I think it was because I was tired yesterday; I was up early, and I stayed up until around 8PM PDT last night before finally going to bed. :/ (check post history if you think I'm lying) I believe he has also completely ignored Intact as well, and vice versa. This makes me even more certain that they are Mafia. ##Vote Hopeless1der
Before we go so willy nilly with our votes and put hopeless on the execution block we should at least wait to see what intact has to say. Hopeless brought up some good points and there is no reason to rush to vote since we have so much time on our hands. Lets get all the information we can before voting.
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Sorry for my inactivity, internet died and It's quite annoying trying to write long texts from my phone. ISP says it will be fixed by tomorrow.
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BlinD-RawR
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Really lurky, and told Fencer to hold off on his really early vote on Anacletus
On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting.
On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting.
He goes on to Vote Anacletus anyways with very little further discussion from him. In fact there was little discussion FROM ANYONE. Read through the posts from when Fencer voted to when Intact voted. What changed? If anything, it was iamperfection hounding Fencer for sounding suspicious.
This bandwagon vote was initiated by Intact, 2nd'd by Fencer (To throw off iamperfection?). Am.Umlaut came in and explained why he was voting the way he did, then dropped another vote for Anacletus.
4th:
On June 29 2012 23:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
##Vote Analectus
going with what little we have, hes been the most scummy so far.
That's not a solid reason to vote for someone...that should be FoS material right there.
Next post, after Promethelax brings up Fencer's questionable play:
On June 30 2012 13:47 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet.
Is there anyway to know what roles have been filled by players?(I'm not asking who is what, I'm asking only the roles that has been filled since this has so few players therefore not all roles are filled on both sides)
This post comes after a couple hours of discussion, so perhaps there isn't too much to add in, but his question to the mods is detailed in the OP of the thread. Semi-Open. It feels like hes trying to make posts without actually contributing.
His next post addresses the fact that NrGMonk and BobtheLob have yet to really post much and he wishes he could make some reads. Meanwhile he has yet to provide a read of his own on anyone. A very easy way to look like its someone else's fault he's not as active as he'd like to be.
On July 01 2012 01:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I didn't do this yesterday, I'm calling it a night now so people know when I'm on and when I'm not, so seeing as I will miss the Night post I got somethings to say.
I just hope that we don't end up in a no lynch situation and I really do want fresh reads from monk who has been largely inactive and people need to push on Bob to talk too.
Bob has been as helpless as Fencer (who I think is more of an uncomfortable player than straight up scum but either way hes been hurting town play by not contributing) and worse is that we can't even get a read on him because he doesn't post.
so until I have some sort of epiphany and rush to my PC, I'm going to stand by the Anacletus lynch.
His post following the mislynch was kind of an "aw shucks, better luck next time team. Let's..continue to play the game and maybe find scum?" The post doesn't provide any insight into why we mislynched or if there is anyone in particular he feels is worth investigating. Just a generic, Go Team! vibe.
The biggest thing that catches my eye is the way that nothing really changed to influence the decisions to Vote Anacletus, but with 4 votes, it seemed unlikely that we'd be able to build a case on anyone else in time for the deadline.
I'm hesitant to think that all 3 scum would vote for Anacletus like that, but my top 3 reads are Fencer710, Intact, and BLinD-RawR
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Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo)
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United States5162 Posts
On July 02 2012 09:11 Intact wrote:
Sorry for my inactivity, internet died and It's quite annoying trying to write long texts from my phone. ISP says it will be fixed by tomorrow. This is very convenient after posting that he'll make a statement, then a heavy FoS goes on Hopeless and I, and he never makes said post. I would consider this enough of a reason to go through the hassle of posting from a phone. Pushing things back to tomorrow seems like more delaying so that shit can hit the fan in someone else's direction. First because he just got back from the nightclub, and now because his home internet is out.
And that Fencer is so quick to cast his vote makes him still suspicious to me. In this case it's pretty bandwagony and makes it easy for other people to jump on.
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On July 02 2012 09:26 BobTheLob wrote:
Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo)
Based on the way your vote fell, I see it as a bandwagon but because you don't want to look suspicious. No one else has made a solid case on anyone, so the scummiest looking player takes another hit. However, you lurk to an incredible degree, and you have a series of posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D On July 01 2012 05:25 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 04:50 iamperfection wrote:On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D I would like to point out that you basicaly used the same argument fencer made several pages ago that he was asleep and just happened to latch on to antoher persons view. It really doesnt matter if your townie or not but your post is especially bad because not only do you cast suspicion on your self for no reason you are in no way helping the town if in fact you are a townie. If you had simply read the thread you would have seen the same thing happening to fencer. Wait so you're saying that because I point out that I couldn't post responses to the statements that I hadn't been posting because I was asleep, and saying that I don't post much anyway so not talking much wouldn't be indicative of anything, means that I'm not helping? I was debating the points others have, and by doing so am causing discussion (Which is what we want). So if I may ask if you are accusing me of something just come out and say it.
where you basically say you don't post much, get called out for it, and make a really long and confusing attempt to establish the fact that you shouldn't be held accountable for lurking. While I frown upon lurking in general, my big problem here is that last post where you say:
I was debating the points others have, and by doing so am causing discussion (Which is what we want). So if I may ask if you are accusing me of something just come out and say it.
Quite frankly, you didn't. Your next post kind of had some reads but a lot of it was "I don't know" and "not conclusive". At least we have a starting point for where you're at in the game to go back to later.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
You admit that you've lurked, that its bad, and that you should provide more reads. Please continue that train of thought.
The last few things you did were admit to drinking and pointing out the WIFOM that the scum have set up regarding JH's NightKill. Not discussing or presenting ideas, just pointing out that it has happened. At least you aren't jumping the gun to accusing me I suppose...
Your play looks poor at best, but I don't yet see a link between you and the other scummy players on my radar, so I'm hesitantly considering you town. That could very quickly change so be on your toes. And post more reads.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49884 Posts
On July 02 2012 09:18 Hopeless1der wrote:+ Show Spoiler +\/ BlinD-RawR /\ Really lurky, and told Fencer to hold off on his really early vote on Anacletus On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. He goes on to Vote Anacletus anyways with very little further discussion from him. In fact there was little discussion FROM ANYONE. Read through the posts from when Fencer voted to when Intact voted. What changed? If anything, it was iamperfection hounding Fencer for sounding suspicious. This bandwagon vote was initiated by Intact, 2nd'd by Fencer (To throw off iamperfection?). Am.Umlaut came in and explained why he was voting the way he did, then dropped another vote for Anacletus. 4th: On June 29 2012 23:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
##Vote Analectus
going with what little we have, hes been the most scummy so far. That's not a solid reason to vote for someone...that should be FoS material right there. Next post, after Promethelax brings up Fencer's questionable play: On June 30 2012 13:47 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet.
Is there anyway to know what roles have been filled by players?(I'm not asking who is what, I'm asking only the roles that has been filled since this has so few players therefore not all roles are filled on both sides) This post comes after a couple hours of discussion, so perhaps there isn't too much to add in, but his question to the mods is detailed in the OP of the thread. Semi-Open. It feels like hes trying to make posts without actually contributing. His next post addresses the fact that NrGMonk and BobtheLob have yet to really post much and he wishes he could make some reads. Meanwhile he has yet to provide a read of his own on anyone. A very easy way to look like its someone else's fault he's not as active as he'd like to be. On July 01 2012 01:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I didn't do this yesterday, I'm calling it a night now so people know when I'm on and when I'm not, so seeing as I will miss the Night post I got somethings to say.
I just hope that we don't end up in a no lynch situation and I really do want fresh reads from monk who has been largely inactive and people need to push on Bob to talk too.
Bob has been as helpless as Fencer (who I think is more of an uncomfortable player than straight up scum but either way hes been hurting town play by not contributing) and worse is that we can't even get a read on him because he doesn't post.
so until I have some sort of epiphany and rush to my PC, I'm going to stand by the Anacletus lynch. His post following the mislynch was kind of an "aw shucks, better luck next time team. Let's..continue to play the game and maybe find scum?" The post doesn't provide any insight into why we mislynched or if there is anyone in particular he feels is worth investigating. Just a generic, Go Team! vibe. The biggest thing that catches my eye is the way that nothing really changed to influence the decisions to Vote Anacletus, but with 4 votes, it seemed unlikely that we'd be able to build a case on anyone else in time for the deadline. I'm hesitant to think that all 3 scum would vote for Anacletus like that, but my top 3 reads are Fencer710, Intact, and BLinD-RawR
Firstly I didn't know the deterrence between semi-open and an open game was until I saw the NMMXX thread and noticed the difference, and to be honest I really wanted to know because I wanted DTs to actually do their job instead of avoiding the fact that they exist in the game and use them back cases that have already been made on scum or build new cases based on who they checked on Night 1.
What exactly would you have liked me to say after anacletus did get lynched?
And yourself why should I believe any case you build from the sole fact that one of the 2 people who was on your case from the beginning was killed last night and what do you do? You redirect attention towards other people because there is nothing much you can do for the cases built against you.
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Firstly I didn't know the deterrence between semi-open and an open game was until I saw the NMMXX thread and noticed the difference, and to be honest I really wanted to know because I wanted DTs to actually do their job instead of avoiding the fact that they exist in the game and use them back cases that have already been made on scum or build new cases based on who they checked on Night 1.
What exactly would you have liked me to say after anacletus did get lynched?
And yourself why should I believe any case you build from the sole fact that one of the 2 people who was on your case from the beginning was killed last night and what do you do? You redirect attention towards other people because there is nothing much you can do for the cases built against you.
"didn't know the difference..."? I have difficulty buying this explanation. But its he-said-she-said at this point so I'll drop it.
A simple gg for Anacletus would have sufficed, but you proceed to speculate on things he (obviously) could have done, and you just sound so very upset like it was a personal blow to you. You voted for him, you thought he was scum (didn't you?) He flips town and your resolve crumbles. Perhaps some feel its a townie trait to be remorseful, but the sentiment doesn't accomplish anything to out the scum. I consider your post scummy.
Did you notice that JH wasn't just tunnelling me the entire time? JH actively pursued every case he could find in order to generate discussion and make reads. This would easily explain why he got killed by scum. It also heavily implicated me because one of his last posts were in response to my actions. However if given another day, he would probably have made a case on me and continued to make more cases. We'll never know, but I'd like to think that's what a good townie should do. What have you done besides attack my credibility? I want to see reads, not vague accusations of what might be scummy behaviour.
I know I'm suspicious, but the scum benefit from us wasting time. The case against me is already out there. If you think its a good one, pursue it. However, the more time spent on me is less time spent on any other case. Which option do you think benefits town in the long run? Redirection is not my priority. Scum is my priority. My reads could be wrong, but they give people options to perhaps see a connection that went unnoticed and see what issues were swept under the rug later on. All of this contributes to making stronger reads going forwards. If I still look scummy, well I did everything I could to give the town some solid options and my reads will look that much stronger if/when I flip town.
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The lurking PBU
There are currently four posters whose activity levels are low enough that I'd characterize them as lurking: Intact, BobTheLob, Blind-Rawr and iamperfection all have less than a page of posts, which is very little considering the amount of discussion that went on prior to the game actually starting.
There are three PBUs. If they are playing intelligently, they will have noticed from the beginning that this game has had a fairly large number of lurkers, and one of them will be chilling among them and doing their best to just scoot by. It's possible that two scum are lurking, but I would guess that the others are among the more active posters because having only a single active community member puts you in a bad position if that player gets lynched; the PBUs lose their ability to manipulate debate, and one of the previous lurkers trying to establish their voice afterward is obviously scummy play.
I think that my logic for concluding that at least one of the four low-post players is a PBU is strategically sound. Ideally we would flush them out by getting the other three to start posting more analysis, but I think it's clear at this point that we're going to have to win this with a couple of low-content players amongst us, which means we need to figure out which of the lurkers is most likely our PBU. We have little to go on, but let's take a look at what's available:
iamperfection: His posting day 1 was worthless. Since day 2 has begun, he's started to participate, albeit in a very low-key manner. I'd like to see more thought-out posts from him, but I'm leaning toward his being one of the good guys and just unsure of how to play as the game got going.
BobTheLob: His posting day 1 was worthless. His posting day 2 is worthless. My read is entirely worthless, because he's not playing. In an environment where everyone was being super productive and he was just posting about how drunk he is, I'd say let Kwark pop him, but I feel like the odds are too good that he's actually just a really awful town player to take that risk.
Blind-RawR: Also posting so little actual analysis that it's hard to make any kind of useful read. However, Hopeless1der's case against him is such a stretch that my conclusion is that it's almost certainly a clumsy attempt at provoking another mislynch and that Blind_RawR is thus probably town.
Which leaves us with:
Intact:
On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion.
This is basically Intact's first move of the game: A vague reference to how maybe JH and Anacletus might both be scum, but presented in such a way that it's easy to distance yourself from later on. I acknowledge that I responded with agreement that this could be a useful bit of analysis if one of them flipped red, but knowing that both were town makes this look like an attempt to get discussion moving toward a mislynch.
On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus.
I really don't see anything suspicious about Promethelax's case against Fencer. I think I'm not alone when I say that he's around the top of the suspects list at the moment. What about Promethelax's analysis of Fencer's play seemed suspicious? This seems like an attempt to just sow dissent without any real logic behind it.
And then comes this brilliant observation:
On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
Anacletus was, in fact, one of the good guys. We banned him. By what logic are we now able to confirm some townies? This post is just stupid, and to me it stinks of someone who is playing with the full information that a PBU has, and hasn't thought through the logic of the limited information environment that we town players are in enough to fake logical conclusions that sound like they were made by a townie.
Summary: Four players (25% of the game population) are posting at barely-there levels, which leads me to conclude that at least one PBU is almost certainly hiding among them. An analysis of the few posts that they have made leads me to conclude that Intact is by far the most suspicious among them.
The scumteam I currently have in mind is Intact, hopeless1der and Fencer710. Of the three, I feel the most strongly about Intact and hopeless1der; I feel like Fencer could conceivable be really bad and having a panicky reaction to being suspected. If anyone could help me analyze the way those three have interacted to argue either in favor of or against my hypothesis, I'd really appreciate the help.
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On July 02 2012 08:30 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 08:09 Fencer710 wrote:On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) I think it's a bit of both. One person that is extremely suspicious in my eyes is Intact, who was never looked at seriously by JingleHell. Of course, Hopeless is also suspicious because JingleHell's (second) last post before death was against him, as were all the posts including Hopeless before that. I think the dead men got their votes right, but we will have to wait for the accused responses to be sure. For the moment, FoS on both Intact and Hopeless1der. This is a big reason to think carefully on what the scum is trying to do. It makes me extremely suspicious and is a big WIFOM situation. The most likely options are that either: I'm scum and I'm trying to shut him up or I'm getting set up because I've repeatedly challenged Jingle throughout and I am already kind of under suspicion. Quite frankly I agree that I look really suspicious, but if we try to chase down my case, the scum get a lot of time to spend lurking instead of talking. I'd rather present cases on other players who I think are more suspicious than me. Fencer, what specifically pushed you over the edge with promethelaxes case on me? You're bandwagoning again without contributing much to the discussion. I will address the Intact situation shortly. You managed to post that thought as I was going through his filter so this will look like a reactionary post, but so be it.
I personally can't find much, so I was drawing attention to things I thought were very interesting.
Promethelaxes' post is very convincing. He brought up a lot of good points, and you were already very suspicious.
That said, I will make a note of who has contributed with analysis so far:
1) Anacletus: No, Dead.
2) Myles: Yes. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
3) NrGmonk: Yes.(Being Replaced) + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 01:37 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +Monk is just not here. A couple of posts explaining how newbie you are, and a pretty limp-wristed FoS on Anacletus. If Anacletus's "nothing but short posts which don't adequately defend himself" is sufficient for him to be the only player you've even discussed as possible scum, what are we to conclude from your total lack of contribution? The difference is I never felt the urgency to defend myself, because I was never accused. I also went out last night and only got home this morning. You can check the veracity of this statement from The Newbie XVIII game. Anyways, time to contribute. One argument I have in Anacletus's defense is that even though he's close to being lynched, no one has really mounted a strong defense for him or has been really adamant to accuse someone else. If he were really mafia, I would suspect at least 2 other people to help him out a bit more. Fencer's play just seems nooby to me more than scummy. I would personally give him the BotD, at least for day 1. I'll look into this more after this post though. But to be honest, at this point, it seems more likely that scum is in one of the lurkers rather than in one of these two. Btw, the bigggest lurkers include BobTheLob and me and below that there's Intact, BLinD-RawR, and Myles. I want to bring special attention to Intact. Although he posts a decent amount, it seems to be filled with one-liners that don't really contribute much to anything and state the obvious. Check his filter, but for the lazy, here's some highlights: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. Trying to edge on Anacletus's hanging with a random story that doesn't really help anyone. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Stating the obvious, and trying to gun for the lynch. At the same time, however, it seems extremely weird that Anacletus would vote for Intact without any providing any reasons. Suspicion goes back to Anacletus...I would really like to hear some explanation on this from him. Anyways, these are just my thoughts and I just want to lay them out so I could get feedback. Not really solidly accusing anyone though until I can get some feedback.
4) JingleHell: Yes, Dead. (Too many analysis' to spoiler.)
5) American Umlaut: Yes. (Same as above)
6) Intact: No.
7) BobTheLob: Yes, poor. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
8) BLinD-RawR: No.
9) iamperfection: No.
10)Promethelax: Yes. (same as Jinglehell)
11)Fencer710/Fencar: Yes. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 02:42 Fencer710 wrote:OK, guys. It's time for me to contribute, as well. An analysis on Promethelax: Early on, he has been very suspicious of Anacletus, as shown be these spoilered posts: + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. This one is special, as it contains a very juicy piece of information: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying
[quote]
Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. These posts suggests Promethlax is town. I would like to draw attention to the bolded and underlined line, as since Anacletus has played before, we can take notes on his role in his previous game and how he posted in that one in contrast to this game. His next notable post is directed at me as to make me look like scum, which I did. Spoilered as to take up less space: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:14 Promethelax wrote:Okay, as you can tell I've been gone for a while; sleeping and working. I just read the thread and I apologize if I missed anything. (In case you aren't sure if you belive me I work every Tuesday-Saturday from 11-7 ADT (I'll be working Sunday this week too) and that, along with my commute and my sleeps, takes up the time that I am not posting) You can also check the other game I am in hereand compare timestamps. You will note that while I am around I post in both threads and while I am away from my computer I don't post anything. That being said I think that Fencer is scummier than Anacle-whateverhtefuckhisfullnameis and here is why: Our good friend #710 tried to get a band wagon started on Anacletus with that first vote which he cast long before anyone else, right after ##voteing ole Blindy posts: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. Which is shortly followed by an ##unvote from Fencer. Fencer tried to get a bandwagon rolling but when it failed he backed right off. He was testing teh waters and found them tepid. As soon as someone else ##voted Anacletus Fencer jumped right back on the bandwagon hoping to get it rolling and look what happened. Now Anacletus is one vote away from being lynched and Fencer is pretending that he is town. Now I do think Anancletus has posted some fishy stuff, in fact I said just that earlier, but I believe that Fencer jumped on the fishiest sounding guy and is trying to make us townies follow him to our own demise. Now if you don;t already believe me, and you should, let's take a long walk down memory lane in the way of his filter: We'll start with this gem. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:47 Fencer710 wrote:On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters. shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so: - Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot. -Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well. I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ where Fencer's first post clearly tries to buddy up to a, probably, towny. When he is immediately called out for it he cries NEWB! as if that would make a difference. We're in a newbie game of course you are a newb. Fencer's defense is lackluster at best and scummy at worst. His next post is another classic where he points the finger at two guys who he could build a reasonable case against by simply saying: "For some reason I can't say exactly [pinpoint] why it makes me tick, but it does." He is trying to start a another bandwagon with no evidence, if he was a townie he would use logic and reason to find scum not just 'some reason' now in his next four post (all of which are one-liners) there is one which actually had me laughing out loud this example of what not to say when you are scum: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:15 Fencer710 wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. Seriously that is his entire post. What the hell else should we be doing? So, to make a long case short, Fencer is scum. ##vote: Fencer710 It was pointed out that this post was made just as Anacletus had 6 votes to be lynched by Intact, here: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. However, his reasoning does not make sense when Promethelax was initially suspicious of Anacletus in the first place. Along with this post which is spoilered as it is very long: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 13:38 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 You don't think Fencer is scum but you voted him? What the hell? If you are town this is horrible play, vote for someone who you think is scum not someone you think is annoying. Now, I think Fencer is scum so I voted him; what are you doing?Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 11:26 JingleHell wrote:
If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD. This is really good advice, we should all follow it. We don't need townies acting like scum just because they are dumb. Come on guys there are 9 of us, we need to start working together, our strength is in numbers. This Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! is why I can't imagine that you are town, I bring a case against you and your reaction is to give really generic advice and go to bed? You may as well just claim scum in the thread. The bolded and underlined portion suggests that he is town and not actually just trying to save Anacletus. Along with this post: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. All of this suggests that he is town, as he was suspicious/believed Anacletus was scum from the start. All in all, Promethelax appears to be 100% innocent, but while digging I found that Intact is very suspicious. He has made 8 posts since the game began, all with very few lines, a paragraph at best. A few gems: Bandwagon without any explanation. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. This makes me extremely suspicious that Anacletus is not mafia, as regardless if he is mafia or town, it wouldn't make it nearly as easy as he suggests, and it supports the notion of lynching him without actually saying anything. This isn't enough to change my vote yet, but FoS on Intact. Also, link to the mafia game Anacletus played in before: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707
12) Hopeless1der: Yes. (same as JingleHell) (second day only)
'Yes' means that they gave an analysis of a specific person. 'No' is the opposite.
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EBWOP: I forgot to add, 'Yes, poor' means they gave analysis, but it was very general and didn't look into anything specific or give examples.
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EBWOP: Also, 11)Fencer710/Fencar is because I'm getting a namechange soon to the latter.
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On July 02 2012 21:43 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 08:30 Hopeless1der wrote:On July 02 2012 08:09 Fencer710 wrote:On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) I think it's a bit of both. One person that is extremely suspicious in my eyes is Intact, who was never looked at seriously by JingleHell. Of course, Hopeless is also suspicious because JingleHell's (second) last post before death was against him, as were all the posts including Hopeless before that. I think the dead men got their votes right, but we will have to wait for the accused responses to be sure. For the moment, FoS on both Intact and Hopeless1der. This is a big reason to think carefully on what the scum is trying to do. It makes me extremely suspicious and is a big WIFOM situation. The most likely options are that either: I'm scum and I'm trying to shut him up or I'm getting set up because I've repeatedly challenged Jingle throughout and I am already kind of under suspicion. Quite frankly I agree that I look really suspicious, but if we try to chase down my case, the scum get a lot of time to spend lurking instead of talking. I'd rather present cases on other players who I think are more suspicious than me. Fencer, what specifically pushed you over the edge with promethelaxes case on me? You're bandwagoning again without contributing much to the discussion. I will address the Intact situation shortly. You managed to post that thought as I was going through his filter so this will look like a reactionary post, but so be it. I personally can't find much, so I was drawing attention to things I thought were very interesting. Promethelaxes' post is very convincing. He brought up a lot of good points, and you were already very suspicious. That said, I will make a note of who has contributed with analysis so far: 1) Anacletus: No, Dead. 2) Myles: Yes. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
3) NrGmonk: Yes.(Being Replaced) + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 01:37 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +Monk is just not here. A couple of posts explaining how newbie you are, and a pretty limp-wristed FoS on Anacletus. If Anacletus's "nothing but short posts which don't adequately defend himself" is sufficient for him to be the only player you've even discussed as possible scum, what are we to conclude from your total lack of contribution? The difference is I never felt the urgency to defend myself, because I was never accused. I also went out last night and only got home this morning. You can check the veracity of this statement from The Newbie XVIII game. Anyways, time to contribute. One argument I have in Anacletus's defense is that even though he's close to being lynched, no one has really mounted a strong defense for him or has been really adamant to accuse someone else. If he were really mafia, I would suspect at least 2 other people to help him out a bit more. Fencer's play just seems nooby to me more than scummy. I would personally give him the BotD, at least for day 1. I'll look into this more after this post though. But to be honest, at this point, it seems more likely that scum is in one of the lurkers rather than in one of these two. Btw, the bigggest lurkers include BobTheLob and me and below that there's Intact, BLinD-RawR, and Myles. I want to bring special attention to Intact. Although he posts a decent amount, it seems to be filled with one-liners that don't really contribute much to anything and state the obvious. Check his filter, but for the lazy, here's some highlights: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. Trying to edge on Anacletus's hanging with a random story that doesn't really help anyone. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Stating the obvious, and trying to gun for the lynch. At the same time, however, it seems extremely weird that Anacletus would vote for Intact without any providing any reasons. Suspicion goes back to Anacletus...I would really like to hear some explanation on this from him. Anyways, these are just my thoughts and I just want to lay them out so I could get feedback. Not really solidly accusing anyone though until I can get some feedback. 4) JingleHell: Yes, Dead. (Too many analysis' to spoiler.) 5) American Umlaut: Yes. (Same as above) 6) Intact: No. 7) BobTheLob: Yes, poor. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
8) BLinD-RawR: No. 9) iamperfection: No. 10)Promethelax: Yes. (same as Jinglehell) 11)Fencer710/Fencar: Yes. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 02:42 Fencer710 wrote:OK, guys. It's time for me to contribute, as well. An analysis on Promethelax: Early on, he has been very suspicious of Anacletus, as shown be these spoilered posts: + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. This one is special, as it contains a very juicy piece of information: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying
[quote]
Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. These posts suggests Promethlax is town. I would like to draw attention to the bolded and underlined line, as since Anacletus has played before, we can take notes on his role in his previous game and how he posted in that one in contrast to this game. His next notable post is directed at me as to make me look like scum, which I did. Spoilered as to take up less space: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:14 Promethelax wrote:Okay, as you can tell I've been gone for a while; sleeping and working. I just read the thread and I apologize if I missed anything. (In case you aren't sure if you belive me I work every Tuesday-Saturday from 11-7 ADT (I'll be working Sunday this week too) and that, along with my commute and my sleeps, takes up the time that I am not posting) You can also check the other game I am in hereand compare timestamps. You will note that while I am around I post in both threads and while I am away from my computer I don't post anything. That being said I think that Fencer is scummier than Anacle-whateverhtefuckhisfullnameis and here is why: Our good friend #710 tried to get a band wagon started on Anacletus with that first vote which he cast long before anyone else, right after ##voteing ole Blindy posts: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. Which is shortly followed by an ##unvote from Fencer. Fencer tried to get a bandwagon rolling but when it failed he backed right off. He was testing teh waters and found them tepid. As soon as someone else ##voted Anacletus Fencer jumped right back on the bandwagon hoping to get it rolling and look what happened. Now Anacletus is one vote away from being lynched and Fencer is pretending that he is town. Now I do think Anancletus has posted some fishy stuff, in fact I said just that earlier, but I believe that Fencer jumped on the fishiest sounding guy and is trying to make us townies follow him to our own demise. Now if you don;t already believe me, and you should, let's take a long walk down memory lane in the way of his filter: We'll start with this gem. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:47 Fencer710 wrote:On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters. shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so: - Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot. -Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well. I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ where Fencer's first post clearly tries to buddy up to a, probably, towny. When he is immediately called out for it he cries NEWB! as if that would make a difference. We're in a newbie game of course you are a newb. Fencer's defense is lackluster at best and scummy at worst. His next post is another classic where he points the finger at two guys who he could build a reasonable case against by simply saying: "For some reason I can't say exactly [pinpoint] why it makes me tick, but it does." He is trying to start a another bandwagon with no evidence, if he was a townie he would use logic and reason to find scum not just 'some reason' now in his next four post (all of which are one-liners) there is one which actually had me laughing out loud this example of what not to say when you are scum: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:15 Fencer710 wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. Seriously that is his entire post. What the hell else should we be doing? So, to make a long case short, Fencer is scum. ##vote: Fencer710 It was pointed out that this post was made just as Anacletus had 6 votes to be lynched by Intact, here: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. However, his reasoning does not make sense when Promethelax was initially suspicious of Anacletus in the first place. Along with this post which is spoilered as it is very long: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 13:38 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 You don't think Fencer is scum but you voted him? What the hell? If you are town this is horrible play, vote for someone who you think is scum not someone you think is annoying. Now, I think Fencer is scum so I voted him; what are you doing?Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 11:26 JingleHell wrote:
If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD. This is really good advice, we should all follow it. We don't need townies acting like scum just because they are dumb. Come on guys there are 9 of us, we need to start working together, our strength is in numbers. This Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! is why I can't imagine that you are town, I bring a case against you and your reaction is to give really generic advice and go to bed? You may as well just claim scum in the thread. The bolded and underlined portion suggests that he is town and not actually just trying to save Anacletus. Along with this post: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. All of this suggests that he is town, as he was suspicious/believed Anacletus was scum from the start. All in all, Promethelax appears to be 100% innocent, but while digging I found that Intact is very suspicious. He has made 8 posts since the game began, all with very few lines, a paragraph at best. A few gems: Bandwagon without any explanation. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. This makes me extremely suspicious that Anacletus is not mafia, as regardless if he is mafia or town, it wouldn't make it nearly as easy as he suggests, and it supports the notion of lynching him without actually saying anything. This isn't enough to change my vote yet, but FoS on Intact. Also, link to the mafia game Anacletus played in before: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707 12) Hopeless1der: Yes. (same as JingleHell) (second day only) 'Yes' means that they gave an analysis of a specific person. 'No' is the opposite.
Fisrtly sorry about yesterday, hopefully you can forgive me the necessity of consuming copious amounts of alcohol to celebrate the birth of my adopted country.
Secondly, on to the post analysis:
Well, this post by Fencar (I guess is your name) seems odd to me, he hasn't added anything but he made a huge post about how much each person has contributed to the thread. I don't know about anyone else but I was aware of how much people had written, I knew this because I have been reading the thread. Fencar has given us a huge post that makes his filter look more legit but said nothing in this post.
He even makes it easy for us to read the analysis of the few guys who have done very little but he won't link to JH's mod confirmed townie analysis or my own thoughts, those are too long to put in a spoiler...I'll let you think about that.
Why does Fencar hide the thoughts of Hopeless, JH, Me and Umlat? Well, looking into our Filters there is one suspicion in common:
I made the case against Fencar, which you should probably read, though it needs to be updated teh things I said in it are still true. + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:14 Promethelax wrote:Okay, as you can tell I've been gone for a while; sleeping and working. I just read the thread and I apologize if I missed anything. (In case you aren't sure if you belive me I work every Tuesday-Saturday from 11-7 ADT (I'll be working Sunday this week too) and that, along with my commute and my sleeps, takes up the time that I am not posting) You can also check the other game I am in hereand compare timestamps. You will note that while I am around I post in both threads and while I am away from my computer I don't post anything. That being said I think that Fencer is scummier than Anacle-whateverhtefuckhisfullnameis and here is why: Our good friend #710 tried to get a band wagon started on Anacletus with that first vote which he cast long before anyone else, right after ##voteing ole Blindy posts: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. Which is shortly followed by an ##unvote from Fencer. Fencer tried to get a bandwagon rolling but when it failed he backed right off. He was testing teh waters and found them tepid. As soon as someone else ##voted Anacletus Fencer jumped right back on the bandwagon hoping to get it rolling and look what happened. Now Anacletus is one vote away from being lynched and Fencer is pretending that he is town. Now I do think Anancletus has posted some fishy stuff, in fact I said just that earlier, but I believe that Fencer jumped on the fishiest sounding guy and is trying to make us townies follow him to our own demise. Now if you don;t already believe me, and you should, let's take a long walk down memory lane in the way of his filter: We'll start with this gem. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:47 Fencer710 wrote:On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters. shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so: - Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot. -Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well. I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ where Fencer's first post clearly tries to buddy up to a, probably, towny. When he is immediately called out for it he cries NEWB! as if that would make a difference. We're in a newbie game of course you are a newb. Fencer's defense is lackluster at best and scummy at worst. His next post is another classic where he points the finger at two guys who he could build a reasonable case against by simply saying: "For some reason I can't say exactly [pinpoint] why it makes me tick, but it does." He is trying to start a another bandwagon with no evidence, if he was a townie he would use logic and reason to find scum not just 'some reason' now in his next four post (all of which are one-liners) there is one which actually had me laughing out loud this example of what not to say when you are scum: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:15 Fencer710 wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. Seriously that is his entire post. What the hell else should we be doing? So, to make a long case short, Fencer is scum. ##vote: Fencer710
Hopeless voted him on d1, + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710
AU said + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters.
And JH is JH, he is mod-confirmed town, well spoken and well thought of now, do you know what he said about Fencar? I do. + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. Wow, that's completely meta, a waste of content post about waste of content posting. I agree, though. Not ready to shift a vote yet, but I've got an FoS on Fencer710.
and
+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:33 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 09:30 Fencer710 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:24 Fencer710 wrote:Yeah I'm an idiot for sure. Elaborating on this a bit: Show nested quote +Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. I had forgotten that posting 1-liners/spam is considered 'scum'. I need to reread the rules T_T. Show nested quote +shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.
I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so:
- Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot.
-Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well.
I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ I said this since in your first game you fuck up and learn a lot more than your second and third, at least in my experience with playing games for the first time, unless you do so on purpose. Now, what I should have done, in spoilers if you don't want to read it: + Show Spoiler +I should have said I will stay and post through the night to prove my claim that I was asleep through the first portion.
I should have paid more attention to the general guide to mafia. A lot more.
I should have re-read everything 5 times, and been very very careful what I posted.
I should have posted far far less. I'm an idiot for forgetting why Anacletus was called out as scum. T_T EBWOP: At the beginning here, I mean to say that I forgot why Anacletus was called out for being scum while posting. Also It's pretty easy to point out a newbie's mistakes as scum behaviour, I consistently start stopping 'scummy' behaviour, aka spamming and indecisiveness as you/I catch it. We already know you're a newbie. Just like the rest of us. ##Vote Fencer710It's not a crutch, it should be a similar sort of hindrance (we're all willing to spend time on a website dedicated to competitive video games, don't tell me about not reading the guide.)
Even at the end when JH thinks Hopeless is more scummy he still sees through Fencar who looked scummy to JH until his death.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 08:09 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:03 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think? I'll go back and look at it, it isn't fair to you to call it our case though. I noticed and mentioned the stupid play, you made a real case. I would urge you to go back and re-read my case on Fencer, I think it is even stronger now that Anacletus has flipped green. I'll post my thoughts about the wonder when I have re-read your case and his filter. I still think Fencer is scummy, too, which is why I mentioned the Hopeless vote on him, as it makes one of them look less scummy if the other flips, but was done in a way that it didn't overcommit the vote, either. However, if I have to take two people who are similarly scummy, I'm going to end up dropping a vote on the one who seems more dangerous, which currently feels like Hopeless.
The three people that JH was looking at as scum before he died were Hopeless, Fencar and Myles. I'm pretty confident that JH was killed for a reason and at least one of them is scum but probably two, just based on a numbers game. The one I am most sure of is Fencar and his new post where he hides the cases against him only reenforces that idea to me.
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You know what, I give up. I'm done.
After my initial mistakes, everything I try to do is now banging my head against the wall. 
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On July 02 2012 23:35 Promethelax wrote:
The three people that JH was looking at as scum before he died were Hopeless, Fencar and Myles. I'm pretty confident that JH was killed for a reason and at least one of them is scum but probably two, just based on a numbers game. The one I am most sure of is Fencar and his new post where he hides the cases against him only reenforces that idea to me.
I've been going through Myles's filter and JH's posts regarding him, and I'm not convinced by JH's read on him. I think he got an early whiff of something scummy when Myles me-tooed a bit too hard early on and then read the rest of Myles's play with a hefty dose of confirmation bias. When I try to read through Myles's filter with my BotD glasses on, though, he comes across as just someone who's getting used to the game and didn't play day 1 great. Nothing about his play really smells of PBU to me.
Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I'm not saying Myles is 100% town, but I don't think that we should give JH's reads too much weight just because he's been martyred.
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Can posts by users in game outside this thread be refrenced?
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On July 03 2012 00:04 Fencar wrote:You know what, I give up. I'm done.After my initial mistakes, everything I try to do is now banging my head against the wall.
Spoken like someone who really, really hopes we accept his resignation and forget about him.
Strategically speaking, a town player would at the very least do as much analysis as possible and post it before getting lynched, since that contribution might help us win. The only position that I can think of in which it is strategically sound to resign like this would be if he's Skilled Troll or Skilled Bullshitter and is hoping that we go after other leads first to give him the chance to use his ability before he dies.
I'm very close to voting for Fencar, but I'm concerned about starting a bandwagon pile-on before enough discussion has taken place. What do the rest of you think?
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United States5162 Posts
Where are the lurkers? We've been questioning them since last the night first fell, and yet there's been 1 post by intact(about how his internet 'died', 1 post by iamperfection(no read, but talking about Fencer's trigger happy voting), and 2 posts by blind-rawr(1 about regret on the mislynch, the other to defend himself from Hopeless). If you guys are townies you need to start posting like it with some reads, reasoning, or something.
Bob has also started posting a bit, but hasn't said anything too relevant except for the one summary post where his only read other than 'uh, I'm not sure' was on JH and Prom when they probably had the least cause to be suspicious. In his posts sense then only this+ Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer)
About Fencer, I'm still suspicious. His last 'read' in particular was pretty much a rehash of the already summarized lurkers. He made a lengthy post on Prom, who along with Umlaut seem like the most established townie with have left. He also FoS'd on Intact in the same post, based on Anacletus vote, but that seems legit since Intact's posting is quite suspicious.
So for now, this is my list of most suspicious from highest to lowest:
Intact
Fencer
Bob
Could be town or not:
Hopeless
iamperfection
blind-rawr
Looks like town:
Promethelax
AmericanUmlaut
And was no one really watching JH despite being a pretty obvious target? Are we going to get anything at all to go off of? And where's our damn replacement?
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On July 03 2012 00:24 Myles wrote:Where are the lurkers? We've been questioning them since last the night first fell, and yet there's been 1 post by intact(about how his internet 'died', 1 post by iamperfection(no read, but talking about Fencer's trigger happy voting), and 2 posts by blind-rawr(1 about regret on the mislynch, the other to defend himself from Hopeless). If you guys are townies you need to start posting like it with some reads, reasoning, or something. Bob has also started posting a bit, but hasn't said anything too relevant except for the one summary post where his only read other than 'uh, I'm not sure' was on JH and Prom when they probably had the least cause to be suspicious. In his posts sense then only this + Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) was his most relvent post, with one other one asking about Fencer's early vote. In all, it really hard to say he's contributed much unique insight at all. About Fencer, I'm still suspicious. His last 'read' in particular was pretty much a rehash of the already summarized lurkers. He made a lengthy post on Prom, who along with Umlaut seem like the most established townie with have left. He also FoS'd on Intact in the same post, based on Anacletus vote, but that seems legit since Intact's posting is quite suspicious. So for now, this is my list of most suspicious from highest to lowest: Intact Fencer Bob Could be town or not: Hopeless iamperfection blind-rawr Looks like town: Promethelax AmericanUmlaut And was no one really watching JH despite being a pretty obvious target? Are we going to get anything at all to go off of? And where's our damn replacement?
What is your basis for Bob being more suspect than Hopeless?
(By the way, I made a post in the ABL thread about getting a replacement in for Monk, hopefully someone responds soon.)
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On July 03 2012 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 00:24 Myles wrote:Where are the lurkers? We've been questioning them since last the night first fell, and yet there's been 1 post by intact(about how his internet 'died', 1 post by iamperfection(no read, but talking about Fencer's trigger happy voting), and 2 posts by blind-rawr(1 about regret on the mislynch, the other to defend himself from Hopeless). If you guys are townies you need to start posting like it with some reads, reasoning, or something. Bob has also started posting a bit, but hasn't said anything too relevant except for the one summary post where his only read other than 'uh, I'm not sure' was on JH and Prom when they probably had the least cause to be suspicious. In his posts sense then only this + Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) was his most relvent post, with one other one asking about Fencer's early vote. In all, it really hard to say he's contributed much unique insight at all. About Fencer, I'm still suspicious. His last 'read' in particular was pretty much a rehash of the already summarized lurkers. He made a lengthy post on Prom, who along with Umlaut seem like the most established townie with have left. He also FoS'd on Intact in the same post, based on Anacletus vote, but that seems legit since Intact's posting is quite suspicious. So for now, this is my list of most suspicious from highest to lowest: Intact Fencer Bob Could be town or not: Hopeless iamperfection blind-rawr Looks like town: Promethelax AmericanUmlaut And was no one really watching JH despite being a pretty obvious target? Are we going to get anything at all to go off of? And where's our damn replacement? What is your basis for Bob being more suspect than Hopeless? (By the way, I made a post in the ABL thread about getting a replacement in for Monk, hopefully someone responds soon.)
EBWOP: I ask because my read is exactly the other way around. I feel like a scummy read on Bob is largely based on his lack of contributions, whereas Hopeless's actual posts have seemed scummy. In my mind being actively scummy is a louder ping than being passively scummy, and I'm curious about your thought process.
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On July 03 2012 00:19 iamperfection wrote:
Can posts by users in game outside this thread be refrenced?
If you're referencing posts for meta purposes (ie: This is a post TheToast made while he was playing scum), that's fine. If you're referencing posts to show activity/inactivity (ie: This post shows that TheToast is online and avoiding this thread), that's not okay.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 03 2012 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 00:24 Myles wrote:Where are the lurkers? We've been questioning them since last the night first fell, and yet there's been 1 post by intact(about how his internet 'died', 1 post by iamperfection(no read, but talking about Fencer's trigger happy voting), and 2 posts by blind-rawr(1 about regret on the mislynch, the other to defend himself from Hopeless). If you guys are townies you need to start posting like it with some reads, reasoning, or something. Bob has also started posting a bit, but hasn't said anything too relevant except for the one summary post where his only read other than 'uh, I'm not sure' was on JH and Prom when they probably had the least cause to be suspicious. In his posts sense then only this + Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) was his most relvent post, with one other one asking about Fencer's early vote. In all, it really hard to say he's contributed much unique insight at all. About Fencer, I'm still suspicious. His last 'read' in particular was pretty much a rehash of the already summarized lurkers. He made a lengthy post on Prom, who along with Umlaut seem like the most established townie with have left. He also FoS'd on Intact in the same post, based on Anacletus vote, but that seems legit since Intact's posting is quite suspicious. So for now, this is my list of most suspicious from highest to lowest: Intact Fencer Bob Could be town or not: Hopeless iamperfection blind-rawr Looks like town: Promethelax AmericanUmlaut And was no one really watching JH despite being a pretty obvious target? Are we going to get anything at all to go off of? And where's our damn replacement? What is your basis for Bob being more suspect than Hopeless? (By the way, I made a post in the ABL thread about getting a replacement in for Monk, hopefully someone responds soon.)
Bob is flying too low below the radar. Hopeless is iffy due to some of his early reasoning and the quick flip flop on the policy lynch of lurkers, but he's been providing a lot of info and taken a lot of heat while still keeping it up. It makes me a lot more hesitant than bob who has lived off the dumb scared newb label.
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On July 03 2012 00:04 Fencar wrote:You know what, I give up. I'm done.After my initial mistakes, everything I try to do is now banging my head against the wall.
Fencar, who should we be going after instead of you? You still have your vote on me, but I've since posted a read on both Intact and BliND-RawR. They both showed up in your list as not providing any reads. Do you still stand by your vote against me? Continue to build cases on people you think are suspicious, even if that's still me, don't just give up. It looks incredibly scummy and I'm leaning towards voting either You or Intact. It will be way easier to get you lynched from the way you posted, but you're both looking like scum to me.
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The more and more i look at it the quick vote be fencar seemed like an attempt to get bandwagon going. This is my view of what happened Fencar put out a vote trying to get a bandwagon going hoping a townie would jump in. When that didn't happen the rest of the scum would not jump in because If fencar gets lynched they would make easy targets. Even subtle claims to back up fencar would look scummy.
Hopeless makes a good point if you are in fact town who should we be looking at. IF you have possible info due to your ability let us know. One of the rules is try to win by giving up you are making it look yourself to almost 100% being scum. You need to give us information to go on.
I will let you respond before i cast my vote.
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Fencar has officially dropped out and will be (hopefully) replaced.
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On July 03 2012 00:04 Fencar wrote:You know what, I give up. I'm done.After my initial mistakes, everything I try to do is now banging my head against the wall.
you know what? You are scum. You just don't want to give us anything. If Fencar doesn't come back I would urge everyone to vote for him, I have seen games where scum just up and left when there was a FoS on them and waited it out as town faught amongst themselves until someone else was on the chopping block. Lurking while being FoS'd is scummy.
On July 03 2012 00:13 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 23:35 Promethelax wrote:
The three people that JH was looking at as scum before he died were Hopeless, Fencar and Myles. I'm pretty confident that JH was killed for a reason and at least one of them is scum but probably two, just based on a numbers game. The one I am most sure of is Fencar and his new post where he hides the cases against him only reenforces that idea to me. I've been going through Myles's filter and JH's posts regarding him, and I'm not convinced by JH's read on him. I think he got an early whiff of something scummy when Myles me-tooed a bit too hard early on and then read the rest of Myles's play with a hefty dose of confirmation bias. When I try to read through Myles's filter with my BotD glasses on, though, he comes across as just someone who's getting used to the game and didn't play day 1 great. Nothing about his play really smells of PBU to me. Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I'm not saying Myles is 100% town, but I don't think that we should give JH's reads too much weight just because he's been martyred.
That seems like a reasonable explanation for his behaviour. I'm still keeping my eye on him but for the moment at least I'll move him into the very light red part of my spread sheet.
@Myles I'm keeping my eye on you, pick up your game and prove you are town. Make some good cases and show me you are one of us. Right now you are more or less null which isn't a good place to be, I'll try to look at you with a totally open mind though.
On July 03 2012 00:24 Myles wrote:
Snippy snippy-
So for now, this is my list of most suspicious from highest to lowest:
Intact
Fencer
Bob
Could be town or not:
Hopeless
iamperfection
blind-rawr
Looks like town:
Promethelax
AmericanUmlaut
And was no one really watching JH despite being a pretty obvious target? Are we going to get anything at all to go off of? And where's our damn replacement?
As to this I think you are being a little silly, we don't know what roles we have. We might not have a watcher or, even if we do they might have watched me. JH and I were the two obvious targets, its like saying that if we had a medic he should have saved JH; in hindsight that is true but in reality he might have protected me and been totally justified in it. I expect to be hit tonight anyway.
The role I most want us to have is dt, I want to know his reads on people as I would love to have a confirmed town or scum.
@Everyone: if you were dt who would you have checked last night? As I already said I would have checked Umlat since I was most null on him and a lot of my reads would be clearer if I knew which side of the line he fell on. His game has really stepped up today though so it would be someone else tomorrow night.
I would switch Hopeless and Bob in your reasoning and add you to the null reads; Umlat is the towniest of the null reads and bob/myles the scummiest. My one really good townie red died n1. I hope someone steps up to fill his shoes.
Oh, I see Umlat agrees with me:
On July 03 2012 00:30 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 03 2012 00:24 Myles wrote:Where are the lurkers? We've been questioning them since last the night first fell, and yet there's been 1 post by intact(about how his internet 'died', 1 post by iamperfection(no read, but talking about Fencer's trigger happy voting), and 2 posts by blind-rawr(1 about regret on the mislynch, the other to defend himself from Hopeless). If you guys are townies you need to start posting like it with some reads, reasoning, or something. Bob has also started posting a bit, but hasn't said anything too relevant except for the one summary post where his only read other than 'uh, I'm not sure' was on JH and Prom when they probably had the least cause to be suspicious. In his posts sense then only this + Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) was his most relvent post, with one other one asking about Fencer's early vote. In all, it really hard to say he's contributed much unique insight at all. About Fencer, I'm still suspicious. His last 'read' in particular was pretty much a rehash of the already summarized lurkers. He made a lengthy post on Prom, who along with Umlaut seem like the most established townie with have left. He also FoS'd on Intact in the same post, based on Anacletus vote, but that seems legit since Intact's posting is quite suspicious. So for now, this is my list of most suspicious from highest to lowest: Intact Fencer Bob Could be town or not: Hopeless iamperfection blind-rawr Looks like town: Promethelax AmericanUmlaut And was no one really watching JH despite being a pretty obvious target? Are we going to get anything at all to go off of? And where's our damn replacement? What is your basis for Bob being more suspect than Hopeless? (By the way, I made a post in the ABL thread about getting a replacement in for Monk, hopefully someone responds soon.) EBWOP: I ask because my read is exactly the other way around. I feel like a scummy read on Bob is largely based on his lack of contributions, whereas Hopeless's actual posts have seemed scummy. In my mind being actively scummy is a louder ping than being passively scummy, and I'm curious about your thought process.
I'm glad someone else is reading the thread and having thoughts about it. I do think there is a scum among the lurkers and I think that Umlat's case on Intact points us towards the most likely candidate. If we are wrong about intact I would follow him with Bob and I have no idea between perfection and Blindy.
I see Myles had reasoning for the Bob v Hopeless thing which is nice. I'm glad he put thought into it at least. Here it is, though I'm sure you've seen it:
On July 03 2012 00:36 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 00:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 03 2012 00:24 Myles wrote:Where are the lurkers? We've been questioning them since last the night first fell, and yet there's been 1 post by intact(about how his internet 'died', 1 post by iamperfection(no read, but talking about Fencer's trigger happy voting), and 2 posts by blind-rawr(1 about regret on the mislynch, the other to defend himself from Hopeless). If you guys are townies you need to start posting like it with some reads, reasoning, or something. Bob has also started posting a bit, but hasn't said anything too relevant except for the one summary post where his only read other than 'uh, I'm not sure' was on JH and Prom when they probably had the least cause to be suspicious. In his posts sense then only this + Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) was his most relvent post, with one other one asking about Fencer's early vote. In all, it really hard to say he's contributed much unique insight at all. About Fencer, I'm still suspicious. His last 'read' in particular was pretty much a rehash of the already summarized lurkers. He made a lengthy post on Prom, who along with Umlaut seem like the most established townie with have left. He also FoS'd on Intact in the same post, based on Anacletus vote, but that seems legit since Intact's posting is quite suspicious. So for now, this is my list of most suspicious from highest to lowest: Intact Fencer Bob Could be town or not: Hopeless iamperfection blind-rawr Looks like town: Promethelax AmericanUmlaut And was no one really watching JH despite being a pretty obvious target? Are we going to get anything at all to go off of? And where's our damn replacement? What is your basis for Bob being more suspect than Hopeless? (By the way, I made a post in the ABL thread about getting a replacement in for Monk, hopefully someone responds soon.) Bob is flying too low below the radar. Hopeless is iffy due to some of his early reasoning and the quick flip flop on the policy lynch of lurkers, but he's been providing a lot of info and taken a lot of heat while still keeping it up. It makes me a lot more hesitant than bob who has lived off the dumb scared newb label.
Based on that Myles seems a little more townie, congratulations man you are a totally null read now. Make my faith in you justified. Prove yourself town, this is probably the only chance I'll give you to show us that you are green (if you are green) I'm still watching you but I want some real, and awesome, contribution.
Wow:
On July 03 2012 01:04 ghost_403 wrote:
Fencar has officially dropped out and will be (hopefully) replaced.
I, ah, I didn't expect that. I guess that he caved to the pressure. I have heard that playing scum is really stressful I guess it really got to him being found out.
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On July 03 2012 01:04 ghost_403 wrote:
Fencar has officially dropped out and will be (hopefully) replaced.
I dont know what to think now he is either the most frustrated town member ever or this is a brilliant play by the scum.
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I can't wait until the end for you guys to find out.
I forgot to say, Goodbye everyone!
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On July 03 2012 01:09 Fencar wrote:
I can't wait until the end for you guys to find out.
I forgot to say, Goodbye everyone!
Fencars last couple posts make it sound like he wants town to screw it all up because we suspect him. If he flips town, I will be amazed. However, I don't want to push for his lynch just yet. Maybe he'll get a replacement, maybe he'll be modkilled.
[green]Is there a deadline by which Fencar must be replaced before he is removed from the game?[green]
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United States5162 Posts
@Prom
If I was DT I would have check Hopeless or myself. We were taking the most heat from people last night and I think it makes sense to be able to confirm/deny the accusations as early as possible. There's too many lurkers to try and take a chance on them, and I'm not sure the heat on Intact started early enough to make a difference. Fencar would be another good choice, but over the night he had also kind of fallen below the radar like Bob due to all the FoS JH was doing, and his scummyness comes more from his posting style than actual scummy stuff he's said(until now at least).
And I know it's possible we don't have a watcher, but given that this is a newb game I would hope the deck didn't get completely stacked against us - that seems like a pretty critical role right under DT and medic. And as much as you and JH were working well together, he was definitely the lead and seemed would be the #1 target for the medic, watcher, and pbu's - assuming we have the first 2. You would have been second, imo, but a pretty clear 2nd.
Fencar dropping out doesn't remove any of my suspicion, either. He did a poor job defending himself, has bandwagoned both votes, then when questions keep coming(as I would think anyone who isn't Prom, and maybe Umlaut, should expect) decides that's he done enough to make up for his initial mistake(which I would argue put him under less suspicion than me or Hopeless, he just kept a lot of the same activities that had people eyeing him before) and is over it. It's not conclusive, but nothing there tells me he is a fed up townsperson who did everything they could to help out.
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On July 03 2012 01:38 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 01:09 Fencar wrote:
I can't wait until the end for you guys to find out.
I forgot to say, Goodbye everyone! Fencars last couple posts make it sound like he wants town to screw it all up because we suspect him. If he flips town, I will be amazed. However, I don't want to push for his lynch just yet. Maybe he'll get a replacement, maybe he'll be modkilled. Is there a deadline by which Fencar must be replaced before he is removed from the game?
EBWOP: Made the Question Green
Is there a deadline by which Fencar must be replaced before he is removed from the game?
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If he's not replaced by the Night 2 > Day 3 post, he will be modkilled.
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NrGmonk will be replaced by sciberbia
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Okay...
I've got to give the Fencar situation some thought, but regardless of how we decide to read his resignation, I think the most reasonable course to take for now is to consider other possibilities. If there's a chance that he'll be modkilled, then we should be considering other candidates with the intention of returning to his case on day 3 if he is still alive then.
My leaning for tonight's lynch would be Intact, then, based on my current reads. Playing inactive is a less risky role than joining more actively in discussion, which leads me to believe that Intact is the most likely of the three to have an ability. Could some of the rest of you take a look at my case on him?
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Hi guys - just got my role PM. I've barely been following the game and I'm at work atm, but I'll try to read the whole thread tonight. Gonna try to start contributing as soon as possible.
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@Prom - If I was DT, I would not have investigated bob due to lurkyness. I would not have investigated fencar and intact due to scummyness/bandwagon suspicions. I would not have investigated you or JH for the strong town vibe you gave off.
Since Anacletus was the mislynched, I'd have gone after someone who voted for him hoping to find scum. That leaves Blind, iamperfection and Myles. I would probably have gone after Myles for pretty much the same reasons he noted in his post above.
iamperfection is still a null read for me, which effectively makes him town since I now have scum reads. BLiND-RawR would have been a close second, and I may well have pmed him as my choice before I developed a scum read on him.
Now that we know Fencar's expiration date, do we try to lynch him today or hope he gets modkilled and if not, lynch tomorrow (This of course assumes we consider him the scummiest person). It seems that if we can pick up a free kill and have the chance to hit other scum, we should do that instead of getting hung up on the Fencar case.
To that end, I'd like to push the Intact case, as he's my strongest red read so far, besides Fencar.
Promethelax, who is your strongest read? I assume I'm up there, but a good townie like you wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket, now would he?
On July 03 2012 01:52 ghost_403 wrote:
NrGmonk will be replaced by sciberbia
Hi sciberbia! Not to put you on the spot, but monk didn't give us all the much info. I don't care if you essentially copy our arguments, but I'd like to get your input specifically on myself, Intact and Fencar as we're the scummiest looking players so far. Any further reads you have would be awesome too.
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@Hopeless
Unfortunately, I'm at work and can't spend much time on the game. I haven't really been obs'ing either, so right now I have no reads whatsoever. Tonight I'll read as much as I can and start weighing in with some real opinions.
If I'm not mistaken, D2 ends in about 7 hours, yes? I guess I'll just be putting my vote on the majority candidate. Again, unfortunate, but better than modkill, right?
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I thought we had another day...0600 July 4th (TL TIME-KST)
Time remaining in Day 2?
And that's fine sciberbia, I wasn't expecting it right this instant. Still expecting it sometime though.
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~27hrs. Over one full day remaining in Day 2.
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ok great. I can actually contribute to the lynch then. You'll hear more from me in 8-14 hours.
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On July 03 2012 01:41 Myles wrote:
@Prom
If I was DT I would have check Hopeless or myself. We were taking the most heat from people last night and I think it makes sense to be able to confirm/deny the accusations as early as possible. There's too many lurkers to try and take a chance on them, and I'm not sure the heat on Intact started early enough to make a difference. Fencar would be another good choice, but over the night he had also kind of fallen below the radar like Bob due to all the FoS JH was doing, and his scummyness comes more from his posting style than actual scummy stuff he's said(until now at least).
And I know it's possible we don't have a watcher, but given that this is a newb game I would hope the deck didn't get completely stacked against us - that seems like a pretty critical role right under DT and medic. And as much as you and JH were working well together, he was definitely the lead and seemed would be the #1 target for the medic, watcher, and pbu's - assuming we have the first 2. You would have been second, imo, but a pretty clear 2nd.
Fencar dropping out doesn't remove any of my suspicion, either. He did a poor job defending himself, has bandwagoned both votes, then when questions keep coming(as I would think anyone who isn't Prom, and maybe Umlaut, should expect) decides that's he done enough to make up for his initial mistake(which I would argue put him under less suspicion than me or Hopeless, he just kept a lot of the same activities that had people eyeing him before) and is over it. It's not conclusive, but nothing there tells me he is a fed up townsperson who did everything they could to help out.
Thing is, the scum are newbs too so I imagine the roles are balanced. I don't know what roles the scum have so I can't say what roles us having or not having would count as stacked against us.
You are right I might have been the second choice but maybe a medic metagamed himself too hard? Thought that scum would think the same and protected me instead of JH? Or there is no medic or he protected someone totally different based on his own reads. This is a nub game, I'm not going to expect anyone to play their role the way it should be played. There are a lot of reasons for the medic/watcher (if we have one) to do what he did.
On July 03 2012 02:00 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Okay...
I've got to give the Fencar situation some thought, but regardless of how we decide to read his resignation, I think the most reasonable course to take for now is to consider other possibilities. If there's a chance that he'll be modkilled, then we should be considering other candidates with the intention of returning to his case on day 3 if he is still alive then.
My leaning for tonight's lynch would be Intact, then, based on my current reads. Playing inactive is a less risky role than joining more actively in discussion, which leads me to believe that Intact is the most likely of the three to have an ability. Could some of the rest of you take a look at my case on him?
This seems totally right, if Fencar is going to be Ghost'd to death we shouldn't bother lynching him. If he gets replaced we'll re-open the case and lynch the replacement for being scum.
I would love to hit a red power role since we screwed up so royally and lynched one of our own power roles. Intact seems like a decent choice of lynch, I just lost my scummiest read which is depressing since I'm pretty sure he is red. I don't think it would help us to lynch into Fencar today. We'll save him for tomorrow if he gets replaced and if by some miracle I'm still alive d3 I'll lead the lynch on his replacement happily.
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On July 03 2012 02:01 sciberbia wrote:
Hi guys - just got my role PM. I've barely been following the game and I'm at work atm, but I'll try to read the whole thread tonight. Gonna try to start contributing as soon as possible.
Awesome, welcome to the fold, I hope to hell you are town and know how to contribute to a thread because we desperately need more green aligned people posting regularly. Even if all the scum are lurky just about half of town is too; please be town, or at least make an effort to appear so.
On July 03 2012 02:02 Hopeless1der wrote:@Prom - If I was DT, I would not have investigated bob due to lurkyness. I would not have investigated fencar and intact due to scummyness/bandwagon suspicions. I would not have investigated you or JH for the strong town vibe you gave off. Since Anacletus was the mislynched, I'd have gone after someone who voted for him hoping to find scum. That leaves Blind, iamperfection and Myles. I would probably have gone after Myles for pretty much the same reasons he noted in his post above. iamperfection is still a null read for me, which effectively makes him town since I now have scum reads. BLiND-RawR would have been a close second, and I may well have pmed him as my choice before I developed a scum read on him.
Now that we know Fencar's expiration date, do we try to lynch him today or hope he gets modkilled and if not, lynch tomorrow (This of course assumes we consider him the scummiest person). It seems that if we can pick up a free kill and have the chance to hit other scum, we should do that instead of getting hung up on the Fencar case.To that end, I'd like to push the Intact case, as he's my strongest red read so far, besides Fencar.
Promethelax, who is your strongest read? I assume I'm up there, but a good townie like you wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket, now would he?Hi sciberbia! Not to put you on the spot, but monk didn't give us all the much info. I don't care if you essentially copy our arguments, but I'd like to get your input specifically on myself, Intact and Fencar as we're the scummiest looking players so far. Any further reads you have would be awesome too.
To the bolded: as I said earlier in this post I think we should hold off on Fencar. Lynching into a possible modkill is just silly. So, since he is out I think we should go looking for scum.
To the italics: Unfortunately Fencar was my biggest scum read. I think the next most scummy would be Intact followed by you. Your more recent posts have started to look like a townie finding his feet. I'm trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt since tunnel vision never helps. I am going to look into Intact more today when I have time but that isn't right now. I hope someone else can build on Umlat's case.
I'm out for a while.
Goodluck townies, screw you scumteam. I hope there will be more analysis waiting for me when I get back.
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Since I've been away you guys haven't done all that much. By which I mean there are literally zero posts between my last one and this one (unless someone posts before I don in which case it has still been over six hours). Remember when we post nothing scum doesn't have to post anything or, to put it another way, when all of town is lurking scum can lurk too and we gain nothing from it.
This is the case on intact as it stands now:
On July 02 2012 20:53 AmericanUmlaut wrote:The lurking PBUThere are currently four posters whose activity levels are low enough that I'd characterize them as lurking: Intact, BobTheLob, Blind-Rawr and iamperfection all have less than a page of posts, which is very little considering the amount of discussion that went on prior to the game actually starting. There are three PBUs. If they are playing intelligently, they will have noticed from the beginning that this game has had a fairly large number of lurkers, and one of them will be chilling among them and doing their best to just scoot by. It's possible that two scum are lurking, but I would guess that the others are among the more active posters because having only a single active community member puts you in a bad position if that player gets lynched; the PBUs lose their ability to manipulate debate, and one of the previous lurkers trying to establish their voice afterward is obviously scummy play. I think that my logic for concluding that at least one of the four low-post players is a PBU is strategically sound. Ideally we would flush them out by getting the other three to start posting more analysis, but I think it's clear at this point that we're going to have to win this with a couple of low-content players amongst us, which means we need to figure out which of the lurkers is most likely our PBU. We have little to go on, but let's take a look at what's available: iamperfection: His posting day 1 was worthless. Since day 2 has begun, he's started to participate, albeit in a very low-key manner. I'd like to see more thought-out posts from him, but I'm leaning toward his being one of the good guys and just unsure of how to play as the game got going. BobTheLob: His posting day 1 was worthless. His posting day 2 is worthless. My read is entirely worthless, because he's not playing. In an environment where everyone was being super productive and he was just posting about how drunk he is, I'd say let Kwark pop him, but I feel like the odds are too good that he's actually just a really awful town player to take that risk. Blind-RawR: Also posting so little actual analysis that it's hard to make any kind of useful read. However, Hopeless1der's case against him is such a stretch that my conclusion is that it's almost certainly a clumsy attempt at provoking another mislynch and that Blind_RawR is thus probably town. Which leaves us with: Intact: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. This is basically Intact's first move of the game: A vague reference to how maybe JH and Anacletus might both be scum, but presented in such a way that it's easy to distance yourself from later on. I acknowledge that I responded with agreement that this could be a useful bit of analysis if one of them flipped red, but knowing that both were town makes this look like an attempt to get discussion moving toward a mislynch. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. I really don't see anything suspicious about Promethelax's case against Fencer. I think I'm not alone when I say that he's around the top of the suspects list at the moment. What about Promethelax's analysis of Fencer's play seemed suspicious? This seems like an attempt to just sow dissent without any real logic behind it. And then comes this brilliant observation: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Anacletus was, in fact, one of the good guys. We banned him. By what logic are we now able to confirm some townies? This post is just stupid, and to me it stinks of someone who is playing with the full information that a PBU has, and hasn't thought through the logic of the limited information environment that we town players are in enough to fake logical conclusions that sound like they were made by a townie. Summary: Four players (25% of the game population) are posting at barely-there levels, which leads me to conclude that at least one PBU is almost certainly hiding among them. An analysis of the few posts that they have made leads me to conclude that Intact is by far the most suspicious among them. The scumteam I currently have in mind is Intact, hopeless1der and Fencer710. Of the three, I feel the most strongly about Intact and hopeless1der; I feel like Fencer could conceivable be really bad and having a panicky reaction to being suspected. If anyone could help me analyze the way those three have interacted to argue either in favor of or against my hypothesis, I'd really appreciate the help.
To begin with I'm going to throw out umlat's scum team. We need to find one scum at a time and after each flips red we can analyze their interactions with each other. Picking out the team doesn't matter at all, we just need to hit scum one at a time.
So, while I agree with umlat's case I don't feel that it is conclusive, because of this I wnet back to the filters and looked at Intact's single page of posts (seriously, less than a page, if he is town he is playing very porrly based solely on his post count).
Here is his second in game post:
On June 29 2012 08:44 Intact wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. Im not claiming he is scum, I'm simply pointing out the observations I've made- And I felt like the ball had to get rolling.
Intact tries to call Myles scum and as soon as I suggest that he commmit to his read he backs off saying that he just felt that he had to get the bandwag- err ball rolling.
his third post is just meaningless spam in which he quotes meaningless spam, sure the first post didn't help us but since he knew that he should have known that his response was anti-town as well. For reference here is his entire third post.+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 10:05 Intact wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:55 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 09:52 NrGmonk wrote:On June 29 2012 09:46 JingleHell wrote:
What about you, monk? The color of the hammer next to your name trying to tell us something? Hell, if nothing else, and we end up with nobody really screaming "scum", we should totally ban the pants off of the banling, just for irony.
Although, Anacletus, I am going to keep that loose eye on you, and one on Myles. I'm not entirely sure why, but something about your posting is setting off... well, not really alarms, more like having a cell phone on vibrate, but leaving it in your other pair of pants, so that mild buzzing sound. Seems pretty scummy. Telling people to lynch a somewhat arbitrary player when I haven't done anything to arouse suspicion. O_O You seem scummy for calling him scummy. Now this isn't going anywhere..
In one of his few remaining posts he says that he is keeping an eye on Myles, he tries to remain consistent with his earlier reads and save himself from the obvious scumtell that is changing one's mind with no reason.
On June 29 2012 21:37 Intact wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
yes I do see that their argument seems lacking but that is also because analectus seems be quite uncooperative with Jingle therefore the argument itself seems to be quite pointless.
Intact, any reads so far? My first guess was Myles, however he is no longer on top of the list(although I will keep an eye on him). I'm leaning mostly towards Analectus, his posts contain very little of value and seems more like a way to avoid being branded a lurker. And like I said before I have seen scum play that is similar to what JH and Analectus is doing.
Funnily enough, this is the last time that he mentions Myles. His next post is a simple vote to kill Anacletus which, as we all know now, wasn't the best idea.
Now on to his next post
On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus.
He calls me scum for attacking Fencar over Anacletus and tries to convince the thread that I am scummy. He is very suspicious of me for trying to get someone else lynched, broaden the discussion and increase everyone's contributions. Now I can see how playing a good townie game seems scummy to someone so red, as soon as he realizes that his ideas have gained no traction with town he drops them and never again suggests that I am scum. Maybe I am taking this as too much of a scumtell since I know I am town but my win condition involves lynching scum and if his did too he wouldn't be trying to lynch me.
Conveniently as soon as he is FoS'd his internet goes down. As we can see he fails to follow up on his reads and instead follows this post
On July 01 2012 10:23 Intact wrote:
So I see that there is some doubt about me and my posting. I'll try adress that in a couple of hours when I wake up. Just got home from a nightclub so trying to make sense seems like a bad idea right now.
where he promises to contribute with this post
On July 02 2012 09:11 Intact wrote:
Sorry for my inactivity, internet died and It's quite annoying trying to write long texts from my phone. ISP says it will be fixed by tomorrow.
where he gives excuses for not giving his reads.
Too often has scum gotten away with making promises they never plan to fulfill, I say we lynch into Intact, into scum and don't wait around to hear his next excuse for not posting.
I will be voting tomorrow morning before I go to work like I did last time. Hopefully there will be some discussion before that point but if there is not I will be leaving my vote on Intact, I hope the rest of town will follow me in that and lynch into scum.
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I've been on the phone with my isp all day, if stuff isnt working soon I will have to ask for replacement. Cant make any serious posts from my cellphone.
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United States5162 Posts
Intact is certainly a top candidate for lynch now that Fencer is on the back burner. He's been called him out a number of times already and he still hasn't posted anything except excuses. I hadn't really considered his early reads on me suspicious because there was an incentive to get the ball rolling, but it is interesting how he mentions it a couple more times then votes for Anacletus and doesn't discuss it at all and instead goes on to someone else(Prom). His reasoning on Prom is also very interesting because he admits the bandwagoning on Anacletus, but also sees looking at someone else suspicious - but Prom had FoS'd on Fencer, and if Fencer and Intact were both scum, I think it starts to make more sense.
On July 03 2012 10:16 Intact wrote:
I've been on the phone with my isp all day, if stuff isnt working soon I will have to ask for replacement. Cant make any serious posts from my cellphone. I don't want to speak for the rest of the town, but that hold's no credibility with me.
Also, I'm still wondering where the other lurkers are. It's been a lot of the same people posting for a while now and it'd be nice to get some insight from iamperfection, blind-rawr, and bobthelob - who I hope doesn't think I forgotten about in the mists of his low altitude. We're also still waiting for our new member's first contribution.
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Well my main cases so far were Intact, BLiND-RawR and Fencar. Seeing as Fencar is subject to modkilling, and we now have 3 players committing to lynching Intact, that looks like the way to go. Also, no one seems to have acknowledged my case on Intact. Presumably because I've been looking so scummy, but anyways I'll quote myself here in case you don't feel like going to look for it. To be honest, AmericanUmlaut's is a better version of my read.
I'm specifically bringing this to everyone's attention so that you can note the timestamps. I was one of the first to target Impact, and I don't want to be accused of bandwaggoning or anything like that if I can help it.
On July 02 2012 08:48 Hopeless1der wrote:\/ INTACT: /\ Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:37 Intact wrote:
My first guess was Myles, however he is no longer on top of the list(although I will keep an eye on him). I'm leaning mostly towards Analectus, his posts contain very little of value and seems more like a way to avoid being branded a lurker. And like I said before I have seen scum play that is similar to what JH and Analectus is doing. Intact is sure he's seen this before from scum in previous games...Except they both are dead after D1/N1 and both flipped town. Following these posts, his next post is (in its entirety) No discussion, no thoughts, just hopping on board. After promethelax comes in to push his case on Fencer (which no one but me really took to), Intact sees this as a very suspicious move. Promethelax is attempting to flesh out multiple cases on day 1 instead of tunnelling one person, and Intact deems that scum behaviour because it might split the town and cause tension. On the other hand, Anacletus flipped town, so Promethelax had the right idea going after someone else. He justifies his choice to stand by his vote with: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. This is not true in the slightest and just screams scum to me. JH quickly picks up on it: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 10:51 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Uhm, it really doesn't work that way. Because they know that we know that they know that we know... you can get as meta as you want, what it really comes down to is educated guesses, and convincing other people those judgement calls are reasonable. Both sides know the same things, and both sides can try to meta-game. You can't second guess the people who know more than you and get the same updates to info as you. All you can do is look for what they do with the information. That last line in the spoiler is the biggest point here. Intact is assuming that a lynch would reveal perfect information about who voted. That cant work since town must be involved in the mislynch, so how could you know with certainty who is scum and who is town? Unless you're scum, you cant possibly know after a D1 Lynch. Finally, he is currently lurking after saying: Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 10:23 Intact wrote:
So I see that there is some doubt about me and my posting. I'll try adress that in a couple of hours when I wake up. Just got home from a nightclub so trying to make sense seems like a bad idea right now. Maybe he's still hungover? Or maybe he's hoping no one calls him out so he can continue to lurk, post a vote with little to no thought (Seriously read his filter, he barely scratches the surface of suspecting someone), and get away scot-free again.
I doubt there will be much in terms of other cases built, but I'll wait until morning like Promethelax. Intact is likely to have at least two votes tomorrow morning the way things are shaping up.
Completely agree with that sentiment Myles. This whole "internet's broken" doesn't sit well with me either.
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United States5162 Posts
Hopeless, I especially agree with the 3rd part as it really makes no sense considering the information we had. Unless he would really try to make the case that the adding Fencar to the list of suspects was being obviously scummy even though I think its obvious that everyone agrees the case on Fencar looks legit.
Another interesting thing I just noticed, Fencar was the first to vote and Anecletus which was followed his quickly unvoting as has been discussed before. But you know what I think was glossed over, the vote that got him back on the bandwagon - Intact's.
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OK this is my first real post
First, some information about me if you are interested (you should be) + Show Spoiler +
This is my 4th game of mafia on TL. I have previously played in Newbie Mini XIV, XV, and XVII, each time as a Vanilla Townie.
I really love playing mafia and therefore am usually quite active. I will be active in this game as well. However, due to work and sleep, I can only devote significant time to the game between 6PM and 3AM EDT. So you can expect all my significant posts to fall in that time slot.
I hardly know anything about the ABL, and I don't know anybody here.
I am a townie. Of course, I don't expect anyone to believe me so easily, so I hope to demonstrate my towniness with some successful scumhunting over the next few days.
My thoughts on the game so far + Show Spoiler +
I just finished a quick read through the whole thread.
Lynching the jailkeeper on D1 really hurts. There's no denying that we are in some serious trouble, especially if we can't lynch scum today. But if we can, finding subsequent scum is usually easier than finding the first. So it's really important to hit scum today.
The thing that stuck out most to me from D1 was the bandwaggon on Anacletus. Of course it's easy for me to say this now, but I really don't see what was so suspicious about him that warranted such a landslide of votes. Not only that - but several players gave some very sketchy (or nonexistant!) reasoning for jumping on the bandwaggon. So I will be focusing a lot of my attention on trying to catch scummy behavior on the Anacletus bandwaggon.
Now I will start reading through some filters and posting my thoughts on different players in turn.
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Intact seems to be a popular name in the thread, so I just read his short filter, and here are my thoughts on him:
Scummy points:+ Show Spoiler +The main thing that I see as scummy about him is that his scumhunting has been quite lackluster and bandwaggony. On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. Intact states his suspicons of Myles and gives a meh reason. Myles already had some suspicion on him at this point. Intact's tone is also non-comittal and self-conscious. I see this as slightly scummy, but can also be consistent with a noobie townie. On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. In this post, Intact basically just repeats the suspicion of Fencer that possibly both JH and Anacletus are mafia. Now, we know that both of these players are town. Intact looks a bit bad for throwing some bandwaggony suspicion on two (now-confirmed) townies. On June 29 2012 21:37 Intact wrote:
My first guess was Myles, however he is no longer on top of the list(although I will keep an eye on him). I'm leaning mostly towards Analectus, his posts contain very little of value and seems more like a way to avoid being branded a lurker. And like I said before I have seen scum play that is similar to what JH and Analectus is doing. Here Intact bandwaggons with several other players' opinion on Anacletus. He gives one, meh reason. Soon he will vote anacletus. I think Intact was the 2nd vote on Anacletus. This also reflects badly on him.
Townie points:+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. This post gives me the strongest read of any of his posts, and it gives me a townie feel. Intact's posts don't paint him as a very bold character. But here he is - calling out Promethelax. I think Promethelax was one of the more active posters D1 and also had quite a bit of thread influence. It takes some serious guts for scum to attack active townies (assuming Promethelax is town -- I think he is). Also, while not necessarily a great point in his favor, I'd strongly caution against using his current absense and lack of defense as a point against him. If anything, scum have more motivation than townies to post a good defense ASAP because they are terrified of getting bandwaggoned and lynched. His absense doesn't make me think he is scum (although I do wish he would post more).
IN CONCLUSION
Intact's attempts at scumhunting look slightly suspicious, but I don't think he has a great chance at flipping scum. Could very easily be a newbie townie. I would not like to lynch him today. I haven't read through any other filters yet, but I'm sure we have a better lynch.
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my next object of analysis shall be BLinD-RawR
scummy points+ Show Spoiler +He gives surprisingly few actual reads considering the moderate number of posts that he has made. He does nothing to convince me that he is actively interested in figuring out who the scum are here. He spends a lot of time calling out lurkers (asking them to talk), or just talking about random, irrelevant things. Here are several examples of posts where he doesn't actually committ to any reads (pretty much all of them): + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 20:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
yes I do see that their argument seems lacking but that is also because analectus seems be quite uncooperative with Jingle therefore the argument itself seems to be quite pointless.
Intact, any reads so far? On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. On June 30 2012 13:47 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Fencer has been quite unproductive, making excuses about being a newbie when he knows this is a newbie game, posting a lot to compensate for that, but I'm not ready to unvote for anacletus just yet.
On July 01 2012 01:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I didn't do this yesterday, I'm calling it a night now so people know when I'm on and when I'm not, so seeing as I will miss the Night post I got somethings to say.
I just hope that we don't end up in a no lynch situation and I really do want fresh reads from monk who has been largely inactive and people need to push on Bob to talk too.
Bob has been as helpless as Fencer (who I think is more of an uncomfortable player than straight up scum but either way hes been hurting town play by not contributing) and worse is that we can't even get a read on him because he doesn't post.
so until I have some sort of epiphany and rush to my PC, I'm going to stand by the Anacletus lynch. On July 01 2012 12:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:
huge huge bummer on the anacletus misread, damn man he could have at least defended himself better or even roleclaimed if he had to.
Its night now but I hope we have some DTs do checks and build cases off them or else we are in trouble going into day 2. On July 02 2012 11:08 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Firstly I didn't know the deterrence between semi-open and an open game was until I saw the NMMXX thread and noticed the difference, and to be honest I really wanted to know because I wanted DTs to actually do their job instead of avoiding the fact that they exist in the game and use them back cases that have already been made on scum or build new cases based on who they checked on Night 1.
What exactly would you have liked me to say after anacletus did get lynched?
And yourself why should I believe any case you build from the sole fact that one of the 2 people who was on your case from the beginning was killed last night and what do you do? You redirect attention towards other people because there is nothing much you can do for the cases built against you. My other big gripe with BLinD-RawR is the way he jumps on the Anacletus bandwaggon. Here are his only real scumhunting posts: On June 29 2012 12:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:
so far here my reads,
JingleHell: I'm leaning toward town, actively taking an interest to know where people are at, yet being extremely aggressive on scum hunting considering the amount of activity on the thread.
Analectus: for the most part not sharing reads isn't cool even for the the lack of activity and joking around doesn't help get a good read on him either....Leaning towards scum. On June 29 2012 23:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
##Vote Analectus
going with what little we have, hes been the most scummy so far. This jump on the bandwaggon is really suspicious. If I'm not mistaken, he is the 4th vote. He gives some pretty abysmal reasoning for the vote as well.
Townie points:+ Show Spoiler +
Really nothing in his filter gives me a townie feel.
FoS BLinD-Rawr
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Next up: BobTheLob
scummy bandwaggoning on anacletus+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 02:05 BobTheLob wrote:
##Vote Analectus
This seems to be the only course of action right now... But I'm prepared to change my mind if someone else starts acting very odd.
I believe this is the fifth vote on Anacletus. This is the first time BobtheLob has even mentioned Anacletus (or made any relevant posts for that matter). Quite a scummy bandwaggon vote with abysmal reasoning behind it.
uses scummy excuses such as "newbie" and "lurking playstyle":+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D The "I'm a newbie" excuse is a well documented ploy by newbie scum. It is an ingratiating maneuver -- attempting to gain sympathy. Townies don't have any motivation to convince everyone how newbie they are; it only makes their cases seem less credible. Not only does he state a newbie excuse in this post, but he makes very noncomittal statements about Anacletus and Fencer. Scum never want to be held accountable for any of their reads or votes. On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea... And here he admits to consciously lurking. What? This is scummy. Townies have strong motivation not to lurk -- we need to hunt out the scum.
Extremely noncomittal scumhunting+ Show Spoiler +I already pointed out how he was super wishy/washy about Fencer and Anacletus. Here is the only other post of BobTheLob's where he posts some real reads: On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
You could summarize this post as "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. No idea. Thinking town but could be wrong. I don't know." Townies should actively hunt out scummy behavior and form suspicions. BobTheLob does not.
FoS BobTheLob
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Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BLinD-Rawr
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Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 10:16 Intact wrote:
I've been on the phone with my isp all day, if stuff isnt working soon I will have to ask for replacement. Cant make any serious posts from my cellphone. I don't want to speak for the rest of the town, but that hold's no credibility with me. Also, I'm still wondering where the other lurkers are. It's been a lot of the same people posting for a while now and it'd be nice to get some insight from iamperfection, blind-rawr, and bobthelob - who I hope doesn't think I forgotten about in the mists of his low altitude. We're also still waiting for our new member's first contribution.
I have to agree here, Intact if you want to convince us you have plenty of places you can go to type up a small paragraph or two to help your case, a library or something would be fine
On July 03 2012 14:32 sciberbia wrote:Next up: BobTheLobscummy bandwaggoning on anacletus + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 02:05 BobTheLob wrote:
##Vote Analectus
This seems to be the only course of action right now... But I'm prepared to change my mind if someone else starts acting very odd.
I believe this is the fifth vote on Anacletus. This is the first time BobtheLob has even mentioned Anacletus (or made any relevant posts for that matter). Quite a scummy bandwaggon vote with abysmal reasoning behind it. uses scummy excuses such as "newbie" and "lurking playstyle": + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 02:44 BobTheLob wrote:Just as a small defence for myself, I never post much and rarely post more than a few lines, it's just how I post as for bandwagoning... I'm new I have next to no idea what I'm doing and despite having read up on all of the resources still am a bit lost. As for reads, I just have a feeling about Anacletus, but whether or not he's scum I have no idea the same with Fencer. I didn't post earlier because I just woke up and last night I was playing a game of Civ IV with my friends :D The "I'm a newbie" excuse is a well documented ploy by newbie scum. It is an ingratiating maneuver -- attempting to gain sympathy. Townies don't have any motivation to convince everyone how newbie they are; it only makes their cases seem less credible. Not only does he state a newbie excuse in this post, but he makes very noncomittal statements about Anacletus and Fencer. Scum never want to be held accountable for any of their reads or votes. On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea... And here he admits to consciously lurking. What? This is scummy. Townies have strong motivation not to lurk -- we need to hunt out the scum. Extremely noncomittal scumhunting + Show Spoiler +I already pointed out how he was super wishy/washy about Fencer and Anacletus. Here is the only other post of BobTheLob's where he posts some real reads: On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
You could summarize this post as "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. No idea. Thinking town but could be wrong. I don't know." Townies should actively hunt out scummy behavior and form suspicions. BobTheLob does not.
I've tried to hunt scum down but, like the rest of us I have found nothing saying that POSTER X IS SCUM. The major difference is that I didn't state any thing in regards to people I think are very scummy. Intact seems to be up next on the block, or if not him then me or Blind, but no-matter what people are going to do a lot of guessing here.
We are still trying to get a good lynch, but unfortunately we can't find conclusive evidence and are mostly just pointing fingers at each other. The scum are probably laughing at all of us right now, and while I realize that this is still only the second day I have a feeling that if we don't lynch a scum this time around people will just point fingers at people who haven't been contributing as much (As you are doing [not that I can fault you for that] ) and we will continue to get no where.
So to address your concerns: I'm a regular townie no roles or anything and am just trying to get by, I believe that Blind is probably one as well and that Intact seems suspicious, also fencars replacement gets a free live an extra day card because we probably wont just lynch him first day either but we would have if it was still him playing.
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Will be leaving in about 5 minuets so if you have a response to my post please post the gist of it now so I can respond
Sleep deprivation's a bitch
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I just had this post almost finished, and my computer spontaneously rebooted. As with yesterday, I'm posting during my lunch break, so I'm going to have to summarize as best I can. If any of my points are unclear, just ask and I'll clarify later on.
The four players against which the strongest cases have been made are Intact, BobTheLob, Blind-Rawr and Hopeless1der.
Hopeless1der: Reformed bad town?
I agree with sciberbia that Hopeless1der looks better as time goes on, and I'm swinging more toward giving him the BotD. I think that I may have been too biased against him by my own vote on him day 1, and didn't give his play since that vote sufficient consideration. Especially this post:
I'm hesitant to think that all 3 scum would vote for Anacletus like that, but my top 3 reads are Fencer710, Intact, and BLinD-RawR
feels townie to me. The whole post is a decent case on Blind-Rawr, and given the odds that that group he names has two scum in it, it's an improbable bus attempt (you can bus one guy, bussing two would seem careless.) I don't consider Hopeless completely out of the woods yet, but he's absolutely not our best lynch candidate.
Intact: Still the best shot
I agree with the gist of sciberbia's reads of BobTheLob and Blind-Rawr: They both look fishy. I especially don't like BobTheLob's long, rambling post with random sections bolded saying nothing at all. However, I think the strongest part of sciberbia's case against both is their bandwaggoning on the Anacletus vote. Given that the majority of players didn't post any well-reasoned argument to back up their vote, I don't think that that argument is strong enough.
I still feel that the case against Intact is the stronger case, and that he's our best chance to flip red tonight.
##Vote Intact
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Come on guys, seriously? We're going to have no discussion in the last 12 hours before our lynch?
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First I just want to say how stupidly scummy this post is: this is a guy who has been reading the thread and keeping up wth it but doesn't post until a case on him is made. As soon as his name comes up he is here to tell us his interenet doesn't work. Sure buddy, sure.
On July 03 2012 10:16 Intact wrote:
I've been on the phone with my isp all day, if stuff isnt working soon I will have to ask for replacement. Cant make any serious posts from my cellphone.
Now, onto our newest member and his cases:
Welcome Sciberia! I'm glad to have another guy in here and posting sensibly with you here I feel like we have a decent shot at winning this. We have been down too many players from lurking and needing replacements, I'm glad you are here to actually contribute.
I disagree with your posts on Intact, I still think he looks like the strongest scum read right now. Especially after his obvious lurking and totally useless response to my case on him. I'm glad you are looking at things with a new eye but I just have to disagree with you: Bob and Blind both look scummy but more in a tinged red sort of way. Intact is glaringly bright red and I'm going to go for the guy who is most likely to flip scum. If, somehow, I am wrong, I promise I'll take a much deeper look at Blind-Rawr and Bob both.
I have made my case on Intact and I'll stick to it, I think it is right and since I think that Fencar is scum too I'm not willing to let two scum players lurk in the purgatory of not quite getting mod-killed and ignore them. I truly believe that Intact is scum and have made my case, his defense only adds to my belief that he is red and with the lynch tonight I hope we prove it.
I have to go to work now and won't be back until after the deadline. Good luck.
##Vote: Intact
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Umlat: Feel free to discuss my post and I hope that Sciberia's and yours will also spark some discussion unfortunately I have to go to work and I don't get breaks so I won't be able to contribute until I get home tonight.
Sorry I couldn't have posted that ten minutes earlier so we actually got a chance to discuss it but there it is, if you have anything to say about it I still have about five minutes before I leave for work.
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Ok, everything is working now so I'm gonna try and defend myself. Atm it seems like I am on the chopblock due to being percieved as a lurker aswell as generally poor posting. To people pointing out my short and not very well tohught out posts, my answer is two fold. First, this is my first game of mafia and I've made some bad misstakes, the biggest of them not being patient enough and starting the bandwagon on analectus. I did feel very good about my read and his actions after being accused seemed to back it up. My second explanation for poor posting is that the way I think is not very well suited for town play. I can read the thread ove and over and not come up with anything and then while playing a game or doing work or whatever an idea pops up and I feel like I should post as soon as I can because I have a tendency to forget stuff like that very fast. This is obviously going to come off as very scummy posts.
Now, on to some more specific explanations:
On June 29 2012 23:28 Intact wrote:
##Vote Analectus
No discussion, no thoughts, just hopping on board.
After promethelax comes in to push his case on Fencer (which no one but me really took to), Intact sees this as a very suspicious move. Promethelax is attempting to flesh out multiple cases on day 1 instead of tunnelling one person, and Intact deems that scum behaviour because it might split the town and cause tension. On the other hand, Anacletus flipped town, so Promethelax had the right idea going after someone else.
Explanation:
+ Show Spoiler + The no discussion claim is simply false, Even though I did not write anything in the vote post I was the first to bring up analectus and tyring to make a logical case against him. I did not just jump on the bandwagon, I posted my thoughts more than once before voting. The reasons I suspected promethelax was that I truly believed in my read of analectus and to me promethelax post seemed like a desperation move to save him. This obviously turned out not to be true.
On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
This is not true in the slightest and just screams scum to me. JH quickly picks up on it:
That last line in the spoiler is the biggest point here. Intact is assuming that a lynch would reveal perfect information about who voted. That cant work since town must be involved in the mislynch, so how could you know with certainty who is scum and who is town? Unless you're scum, you cant possibly know after a D1 Lynch.
Explanation:
+ Show Spoiler +Here, my only defence is poor play, which admittedly is not a very strong case. I'd like to remind you that this is my first ever game of mafia and at the time this did seems completely logical to me, although I've figured out that I assume way to much
On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion.
This is basically Intact's first move of the game: A vague reference to how maybe JH and Anacletus might both be scum, but presented in such a way that it's easy to distance yourself from later on. I acknowledge that I responded with agreement that this could be a useful bit of analysis if one of them flipped red, but knowing that both were town makes this look like an attempt to get discussion moving toward a mislynch.
Explanation:
+ Show Spoiler +I don't see how this is suspicious or scummy at all, I'm trying to make a read and be a little meta. Also, it is promoting discussion. Ofcourse it looked bad after analectus and JH flipped town, but this was just me posting my thoughts and observations and trying to promote discussion
On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus.
I really don't see anything suspicious about Promethelax's case against Fencer. I think I'm not alone when I say that he's around the top of the suspects list at the moment. What about Promethelax's analysis of Fencer's play seemed suspicious? This seems like an attempt to just sow dissent without any real logic behind it.
Explanation:
+ Show Spoiler +As I have explanied earlier, I was really convinced of my read as analectus being scum and thus promethelax coming out with a late post to save him seemed to fit perfectly with what my read was. Later this turned out to be all wrong ofcourse
On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies.
Anacletus was, in fact, one of the good guys. We banned him. By what logic are we now able to confirm some townies? This post is just stupid, and to me it stinks of someone who is playing with the full information that a PBU has, and hasn't thought through the logic of the limited information environment that we town players are in enough to fake logical conclusions that sound like they were made by a townie.
Explanation:
+ Show Spoiler +Already explained this but my only defence is bad play and posting without thinking it through. It did seem logical to me when I posted
Show nested quote +Im not claiming he is scum, I'm simply pointing out the observations I've made- And I felt like the ball had to get rolling. Intact tries to call Myles scum and as soon as I suggest that he commmit to his read he backs off saying that he just felt that he had to get the bandwag- err ball rolling.
+ Show Spoiler +Again, I'm just trying to get discussion going early on. I realize I was a bit too eager to get a read off and again I'm gonna have to point to my inexperience.
That should cover it for the moment, I'll post my reads shortly after thinking them through, been mostly concerned with defending myself the lasts couple of days.
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United States5162 Posts
Intact, you don't seem very convincing. A lot of your explanation is bad play or "I really thought Anacletus was scum'. I while I agree that Anacletus looked scummy(I did vote for him afterall) your reasoning for FoS on Prom is really odd when you readily admitted the bandwagon was strong. I'm also not quite sure how you would feel so strongly about Anacletus - I could be looking back with some form of rose-colored glasses, but while he seemed like the best bet, I don't think I would have ever called it close to sure thing.+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 21:37 Intact wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
yes I do see that their argument seems lacking but that is also because analectus seems be quite uncooperative with Jingle therefore the argument itself seems to be quite pointless.
Intact, any reads so far? My first guess was Myles, however he is no longer on top of the list(although I will keep an eye on him). I'm leaning mostly towards Analectus, his posts contain very little of value and seems more like a way to avoid being branded a lurker. And like I said before I have seen scum play that is similar to what JH and Analectus is doing. On June 29 2012 23:28 Intact wrote:
##Vote Analectus On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus.
Also, why are you claiming ignorance with this post + Show Spoiler +Here, my only defence is poor play, which admittedly is not a very strong case. I'd like to remind you that this is my first ever game of mafia and at the time this did seems completely logical to me, although I've figured out that I assume way to much
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United States5162 Posts
EBWOP - add 'one of' between 'when' and 'your' and change 'read' to 'reads' in the sentence "Also, why are you claiming ignorance with this post + Show Spoiler + when your first read"
so that it says "Also, why are you claiming ignorance with this post + Show Spoiler + when one of your first reads"
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Based on Intact's defensive post, and the lack of reads, I'm thoroughly inclined to vote for him. I'm willing to give about 4 hours before I'll cast my vote, but if there is no one looking that much scummier (and it's pretty much up to Intact to point them out) he's very likely getting the lynch.
Also of note, Promethelax's vote is locked (according to him being at work and all.)
Vote Count please?
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Not sure if Ghost is on right now. According to my count, the votes are currently:
Hopeless1der (1): Fencar
BlinD-RawR (1): sciberbia
Intact (2): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
Since Fencar is still technically alive, I guess we need five to ban?
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On July 03 2012 23:42 Hopeless1der wrote:
Based on Intact's defensive post, and the lack of reads, I'm thoroughly inclined to vote for him. I'm willing to give about 4 hours before I'll cast my vote, but if there is no one looking that much scummier (and it's pretty much up to Intact to point them out) he's very likely getting the lynch.
Also of note, Promethelax's vote is locked (according to him being at work and all.)
Vote Count please?
By my count:
Hopeless1der: Fencar
BLinD-Rawr (1): sciberbia
Intact (2): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
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On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BLinD-Rawr
I agree with a lot of the points you laid out here but i dont agree with the final conclusion. Blindy has been like several others lurking (myself included) The case that you put up against him not even close to how strong of an argument that you put out on bobthelob.
This post in particular is the one that bothers me
On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
As you pointed out this is very wishy washy but also this only serves as attempt to confuse the town and drive us all against each other. He is effectivly saying " hey you know who scould be scum. Everybody" He could then still stay off to the sideline with his non commitment when the lynching dosent go the towns way.
What do we really have on blindy to go on besides lurking. He has given limited reads like my fellow lurkers but of the reads he did give he gave one right one in thinking jingle was town. In my view Blind has been trying to help the town while bob had been trying to hurt us.
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EBWOP: blindy is the nickname for blind-rawr
doubleEBWOP: blindy is the nickname for blind-rawr even if denies it.
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On July 04 2012 00:29 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BLinD-Rawr I agree with a lot of the points you laid out here but i dont agree with the final conclusion. Blindy has been like several others lurking (myself included) The case that you put up against him not even close to how strong of an argument that you put out on bobthelob. This post in particular is the one that bothers me Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
As you pointed out this is very wishy washy but also this only serves as attempt to confuse the town and drive us all against each other. He is effectivly saying " hey you know who scould be scum. Everybody" He could then still stay off to the sideline with his non commitment when the lynching dosent go the towns way. What do we really have on blindy to go on besides lurking. He has given limited reads like my fellow lurkers but of the reads he did give he gave one right one in thinking jingle was town. In my view Blind has been trying to help the town while bob had been trying to hurt us.
Bolding that bit because I still think its true, most of my recent posts have been the same thing. Nobody has anything conclusive, it's all guesswork and assumptions. I've admitted that I lurked to much and have also made a point to try posting more, but even so it seems that just made people take more notice of me, Blind is still lurking a lot more than me but I seem to be taking a lot of the heat off of the people who we thought before were scummy, Intact, Hopeless ect. While I agree that Hopeless has made a good case for himself It shouldn't stop people from looking at him more closely.
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On July 04 2012 01:24 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 00:29 iamperfection wrote:On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BLinD-Rawr I agree with a lot of the points you laid out here but i dont agree with the final conclusion. Blindy has been like several others lurking (myself included) The case that you put up against him not even close to how strong of an argument that you put out on bobthelob. This post in particular is the one that bothers me On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
As you pointed out this is very wishy washy but also this only serves as attempt to confuse the town and drive us all against each other. He is effectivly saying " hey you know who scould be scum. Everybody" He could then still stay off to the sideline with his non commitment when the lynching dosent go the towns way. What do we really have on blindy to go on besides lurking. He has given limited reads like my fellow lurkers but of the reads he did give he gave one right one in thinking jingle was town. In my view Blind has been trying to help the town while bob had been trying to hurt us. Bolding that bit because I still think its true, most of my recent posts have been the same thing. Nobody has anything conclusive, it's all guesswork and assumptions. I've admitted that I lurked to much and have also made a point to try posting more, but even so it seems that just made people take more notice of me, Blind is still lurking a lot more than me but I seem to be taking a lot of the heat off of the people who we thought before were scummy, Intact, Hopeless ect. While I agree that Hopeless has made a good case for himself It shouldn't stop people from looking at him more closely.
So look at him more closely and share your thoughts. If you're town you should be helping us scum hunt and not explaining how scum hunting is impossible
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Can I get a time left please?
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On July 04 2012 01:39 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 01:24 BobTheLob wrote:On July 04 2012 00:29 iamperfection wrote:On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BLinD-Rawr I agree with a lot of the points you laid out here but i dont agree with the final conclusion. Blindy has been like several others lurking (myself included) The case that you put up against him not even close to how strong of an argument that you put out on bobthelob. This post in particular is the one that bothers me On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
As you pointed out this is very wishy washy but also this only serves as attempt to confuse the town and drive us all against each other. He is effectivly saying " hey you know who scould be scum. Everybody" He could then still stay off to the sideline with his non commitment when the lynching dosent go the towns way. What do we really have on blindy to go on besides lurking. He has given limited reads like my fellow lurkers but of the reads he did give he gave one right one in thinking jingle was town. In my view Blind has been trying to help the town while bob had been trying to hurt us. Bolding that bit because I still think its true, most of my recent posts have been the same thing. Nobody has anything conclusive, it's all guesswork and assumptions. I've admitted that I lurked to much and have also made a point to try posting more, but even so it seems that just made people take more notice of me, Blind is still lurking a lot more than me but I seem to be taking a lot of the heat off of the people who we thought before were scummy, Intact, Hopeless ect. While I agree that Hopeless has made a good case for himself It shouldn't stop people from looking at him more closely. So look at him more closely and share your thoughts. If you're town you should be helping us scum hunt and not explaining how scum hunting is impossible
Okay then, lets get started. Intacts explanations were, Poor play which is something that we all agreed wasn't something you really need to point out, and it is a tad bit scummy as was said to me.
Next he says that "I'm trying to make a read and be a little meta." which is odd to me as JH pointed out that being meta wont help at all and Intact should know that it isn't the best excuse.
As a follow up he says that he was "really convinced of my read as analectus being scum and thus promethelax coming out with a late post to save him seemed to fit perfectly with what my read was." and in my opinion you should never be convinced of a read unless you have evidence OR the play is so obviously scummy that almost everyone picks up on it.
Then he pulls out the bad play card again, something I have been told isn't any good.
His follow up is much of the same "Again, I'm just trying to get discussion going early on. I realize I was a bit too eager to get a read off and again I'm gonna have to point to my inexperience" with the whole inexperience thing acting as a crutch
Now lets get to some of his earlier posts. Now while Myles and Promethelax have gone over most of the points I mean to make here there are something I want to point out He has 7-10 posts that are in anyway related to this, the rest are just there to say "I'm still in the game gimme a bit more time to make an argument". While I realize that he could have been telling the truth, There are many places in this world with computers and an internet connection, be it a library or a computer cafe.
On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus.
Now he stands by his read but also puts one onto Promethelax who at the time was with JH the only people giving advice and direction. He says that because Promethelax was trying to help by making an argument he was scummy.
Due to time I'm pushing this out so its not as finished as I would like.
##Vote Intact because I feel that is the best course of action for the town right now.
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Day 2 Vote Count:
BLinD-RawR (1): sciberbia
Intact (3): AmericanUmlaut, BobTheLob, Promethelax
Hopeless1der(1): Fencar
BobTheLob (1): iamperfection
Not Voted: BLinD-RawR, hopeless1der, Intact, Myles
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Currently, no one is set to be lynched Day 2. 3.5 hours remain!
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Why does no-one ever spell sciberbia's name correctly? :<
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On July 02 2012 06:00 ghost_403 wrote:End of Night 1 ERROR WITH FLAVOR GENERATOR.TheToast is in the shop getting repaired this weekend. Flavor soon to follow.
JingleHell playing the part of a the ABL Poster, has been found dead!Day 2 has begin. You have 48 hours to decide on your next lynch. Deadline is at 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
And sorry for the lack of flavor. We'll get right on fixing that.
Timestamped @ 0600 KST. Shouldn't that be ~3hr19min from now?
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On July 04 2012 02:41 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 06:00 ghost_403 wrote:End of Night 1 ERROR WITH FLAVOR GENERATOR.TheToast is in the shop getting repaired this weekend. Flavor soon to follow.
JingleHell playing the part of a the ABL Poster, has been found dead!Day 2 has begin. You have 48 hours to decide on your next lynch. Deadline is at 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
And sorry for the lack of flavor. We'll get right on fixing that. Timestamped @ 0600 KST. Shouldn't that be ~3hr19min from now?
Yes. Day 2 will end at 6:00 KST/16:00 CDT
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edit: nvm
All you need to know is that that the correct time for the end of Day 2 is 6:00 KST/16:00 CDT/23:00 CEST
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Listen to theToast. Vote count updated with proper time. 3 hours remain.
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United States5162 Posts
Since Fencar dropped out without voting and is yet to be replaced, doesn't that mean there's only 9 players so it should be 5 votes to lynch?
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On July 04 2012 03:22 Myles wrote:
Since Fencar dropped out without voting and is yet to be replaced, doesn't that mean there's only 9 players so it should be 5 votes to lynch?
Because Fencar cast his vote before dropping out, and because he has not yet been modkilled, ghost has decided to count his vote and include him in the vote majority. It will still take a majority of 6 to lynch. If you have questions about it, please PM ghost_403.
Note that there is still time for Fencar to be replaced.
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I've been following the thread from work. Nothing I've read has done much to change my views on today's lynch.
I'm still really not convinced about Intact. Maybe he is mafia/troll, but I still don't think he's our best chance.
I still feel most confident about BLinD-Rawr, but I see that I am not getting much support. I suggest that you all revisit the cases against him. If you agree with me that he is a better lynch than Intact, please make your voice heard. We have only 2.5 hours left. If you don't agree with me, well please at least read his filter again.
If I don't get enough support on BLinD-Rawr/BobTheLob, I am prepared to change my vote to Intact if that is needed for a majority. I won't miss the deadline.
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United States5162 Posts
I'm relooking over the case on Blind-rawr, but he hasn't really set off any alarms for me even though there really isn't much difference between him and Bob - and I'm not really sure why not. Him and iamperfection are both really border line but I can't see them as more than 50/50 at this point. Bob and Intact seem like better choice, especially since I think a couple of things Intact has posted are suspiciously inconsistent. I'll post again once I'm done rereading stuff.
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I'm feeling very nervous about this lynch. I still stand by my read of Intact, but Bob's most recent post is also very suspect to me. His case on Intact refers repeatedly to Intact's claims of lack of experience as being scummy, but Bob's own post is phrased in two places so as to disarm the reader by making passive reference to his inexperience:
Okay then, lets get started. Intacts explanations were, Poor play which is something that we all agreed wasn't something you really need to point out, and it is a tad bit scummy as was said to me.
Then he pulls out the bad play card again, something I have been told isn't any good.
The post overall feels like it is less Bob's real thoughts on Intact's play than an attempt to justify his vote without appearing suspicious. My reading of Bob slightly scummier than before after the post.
The question, though, is whether -- in the case Bob is a PBU -- the choice to vote on Intact is an attempt to build momentum for a mislynch or an attempt to bus a scumbuddy that he figures isn't long for this world in any case.
I'm keeping my vote on Intact at this point. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the situation, and I'm open to being persuaded otherwise, but I still think Intact is the scummiest read. Especially considering he promised reads for us to build on "soon", five hours ago. I think he sees sciberbia's cases on Bob and Blind-Rawr as a chance for him to dodge a banhammer, and he's laying low hoping that we get distracted discussing them and forget about him.
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I for one am convinced that Intact is scum. He has had almost 5 hours to post his reads
On July 03 2012 23:01 Intact wrote:
SNIP
That should cover it for the moment, I'll post my reads shortly after thinking them through, been mostly concerned with defending myself the lasts couple of days.
Even if he were to post a fantastic analysis, there is very little time for us to discuss and make a decision other than to push us over the edge between our picks. Unless he comes after either myself or Blindy, he's first in line to get the lynch. I don't see strong cases on anyone else.
I am still reading neutral on BobtheLob. He posted a read of Intact, but it had been looking pretty clear that hes our top suspect. It has the look and feel of an underproducing townie, but could be a late bus to build his cred. He's also posted a lot more today. Bonus points for that. Still neutral.
BLiND-RawR isn't getting the attention so far. I intend to pursue his case following today's lynch. He's lurked since his defense against my case on him. Very scummy behavior.
Given that I have what I feel are two good reads for scum, I'd rather focus on Intact today since Promethelax's vote is locked.
Vote: Intact
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EBWOP: I should clarify what I mean when I say I'm very nervous about the lynch. Town play has not been good this game, which has left us with more scummy-looking players than there are actual scum. Assuming there's even one PBU in this game who knows how to play without looking like the second coming of GG.Nore, we're lynching into a population that includes way too many friendlies for comfort. Even making the best reads we can, we're taking a percentage gamble that I'm really not happy about.
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On July 04 2012 03:59 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
EBWOP: I should clarify what I mean when I say I'm very nervous about the lynch. Town play has not been good this game, which has left us with more scummy-looking players than there are actual scum. Assuming there's even one PBU in this game who knows how to play without looking like the second coming of GG.Nore, we're lynching into a population that includes way too many friendlies for comfort. Even making the best reads we can, we're taking a percentage gamble that I'm really not happy about.
*Twitch* That was what I was saying before and I got bitched at for it....
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United States5162 Posts
After looking things over, there's one thing that throws up a red flag for blind-rawr - after Fencar votes on Anacletus he remarks that he'd layoff voting because there is still 2 lurkers who haven't posted, but 2 hours later he votes anyways when literally nothing has changed other than the bandwagon has started. Caught up in group think or seeing a safe opportunity to jump on, it's hard to say.
I think I'm reading him above Bob in my Scum-o-meter now, but Intact still seems like a more solid choice. His posting has been all around abysmal and his excuses are lame. I'm going to be around right until nightfall so I won't be voting just yet, but I'm heavily learning towards Intact right now.
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On July 04 2012 03:55 AmericanUmlaut wrote:I'm feeling very nervous about this lynch. I still stand by my read of Intact, but Bob's most recent post is also very suspect to me. His case on Intact refers repeatedly to Intact's claims of lack of experience as being scummy, but Bob's own post is phrased in two places so as to disarm the reader by making passive reference to his inexperience: Show nested quote +Okay then, lets get started. Intacts explanations were, Poor play which is something that we all agreed wasn't something you really need to point out, and it is a tad bit scummy as was said to me. Show nested quote +Then he pulls out the bad play card again, something I have been told isn't any good. The post overall feels like it is less Bob's real thoughts on Intact's play than an attempt to justify his vote without appearing suspicious. My reading of Bob slightly scummier than before after the post. The question, though, is whether -- in the case Bob is a PBU -- the choice to vote on Intact is an attempt to build momentum for a mislynch or an attempt to bus a scumbuddy that he figures isn't long for this world in any case. I'm keeping my vote on Intact at this point. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the situation, and I'm open to being persuaded otherwise, but I still think Intact is the scummiest read. Especially considering he promised reads for us to build on "soon", five hours ago. I think he sees sciberbia's cases on Bob and Blind-Rawr as a chance for him to dodge a banhammer, and he's laying low hoping that we get distracted discussing them and forget about him.
I agree it's not a very strong case, but that reads like hes a newbie and rationalizing his case based on the fact the he's been told that doing those things are scummy. It's a speaking from experience thing to me. The quality of his posts is what concerns me.
He acknowledges that its not exactly finished, but hes short on time. This is kind of true, but 4 of us had yet to vote at all, meaning we would have to come back to the thread at some point or get modkilled. I can see him being a little flustered about being suspicious and wanted to demonstrate quickly that he's an active townie. I'm willing to see if he can give us some more quality in his posts before I am ready to accuse him of being scum. If his post quality degrades, I would view his read of Intact as a (bus/mislynch depending on his flip).
@Umlaut's nervousness/Bob's twitchyness: That's the game. People are going to look scummy. To avoid that, post your reads as thoroughly as you can and push the scummiest read you have. I'm voting for my scummiest read. It looks like you're both doing the same. I can't ask much more of you than that. After the lynch, keep posting reads and try to provoke the scum into slip-ups.
@Myles: I noticed that too, its in my case on BLiND-RawR. The bandwagon was why I have Fencar, Intact and Blindy on my scum radar in the first place. The lurking and poor posts have further supported my reads on them.
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United States5162 Posts
I'm going to pull the trigger and vote intact. He seems like the best choice given the information we have. As has been discussed, there's too many inconsistencies with the bandwagon, reads, and ability to post.
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United States5162 Posts
Oops, forgot to vote.
##Vote Intact
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Vote count please and time if you would be so kind.
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Alright it looks like there is no chance that anybody other than Intact gets banned today. I'm still not persuaded that Intact is our best ban (or even a good ban), but any ban is better than no ban, so I'm switching my vote to Intact.
##unvote
##Vote Intact
I really hope you're all right about him.
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By my count, sciberbia has hammered Intact, just over an hour remaining.
(See marv, I can spell his name just fine.)
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On July 04 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:
Vote count please and time if you would be so kind.
BLinD-RawR (0):
Intact (6): AmericanUmlaut, BobTheLob, Promethelax, Hopeless1der, Myles, sciberbia
Hopeless1der(1): Fencar
BobTheLob (1): iamperfection
Not Voted: BLinD-RawR, Intact,
Currently, Intact set to be lynched. 1 hour and 6 minutes remain in day 2.
-edit: I shouldn't copy and paste
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BLinD-RawR and Intact, where are you guys?
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I've done my best to explain myself, but it seem like you are set to lynch me anyway. Wwll, good luck winning after losing your third townie.
My thoughts are that either BLinD-RawR or Hopeless1der are scum. BLinD-RawR has been posting a lot in order to avoid being labeled a lurker but none of his post actually contribute anything and he frequently jumps on the bandwagon. The case is similar with Hopeless1der.
Analectus was lynched without even trying to defend himself and everyone was annoyed. Now that you are about to misslynch me I've actually tried to defend myself and yet you are about to do the same misstake all over again.
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Epic Modkillings: T-5 Minutes and counting.
Intact you should probably throw a vote...
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Oh right, I'm a forgetful person
##Vote BLinD-RawR
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Day 2 Final Vote Count:
BLinD-RawR (1): Intact
Intact (6): AmericanUmlaut, BobTheLob, Promethelax, Hopeless1der, Myles, sciberbia
Hopeless1der(1): Fencar
BobTheLob (1): iamperfection
Not Voted: BLinD-RawR
Intact has been lynched Day 2. BLinD-RawR will be replaced for failing to vote.
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End of Day 2
ghost_403 sat alone at a conference table in a posh looking room. He was leaning slightly in his expensive leather chair, almost nonchalant. While still firmly gripping his revolver safely out of sight under the table. At last he relented, holstered his weapon, strolled to the window. He gazed out across the bustling NYC as the blaze orange sun begane to recede behind the skyline. As he looked down from the 23rd floor of the massive telecom building he found himself in awe. Thousands of people milling about, bustling off to their destinations, just living out their lives. All of them completely unaware of the drama playing out; unaware of the conspiracy attempting to overtake the quite community of Team Liquid.
He sighed as he turned away from the window. He was so sure TheToast would show up. The 23rd floor of this building housed the powerful TL webservers, connected directly to the TL central computer. With the extra security at TLHQ ghost knew this was the one place TheToast could reach his prize. There was a soft thunking noise behind him, ghost instantly pulled out his revolver and wheeled around, yet saw only nothing. Was he becoming paranoid? Had TheToast finally gotten to him? Maybe. But for now, it was going to have to be up to the ABLers to crack the case.
With the end of another day, the ABL'ers narrowed the focus of their investigation. They had made a grevious mistake once before, they weren't going to let it happen again. As with the previous day they gathered their evidence and went to the TL admins.
The admins weren't sure either, they couldn't allow another fiasco. But if they did nothing TL would be lost forever, a haven of shitty posters where PBUs would corruptly wield the powers of the ban hammer. A frightening world where horrid theory crafting and caster bashing would go unchecked. It was a thought too frightening to think of--they all knew what had to be done. And so it was, with one swift stroke of the ban hammer.
As ghost was making his way slowly to the elevator he felt his phone vibrate. It was a text message. Could it be? The number was blocked out. As ghost opened the text message, he feared the worst.
"LooooooL way to go ghost! Wack another innocent TL member in your fruitless effort to stop me!!! Haha poor ghost! You CAN'T STOP ME. I AM UNSTOPABLE, AND I WILL TAKE OVER TL!!!"
ghost_403 broke into a full run to the elevator. Maybe the was a way, maybe he could stop TheToast.....
Intact, playing the part of the ABL Poster, has been lynched!
It is now Night 2. If you have night actions, please PM them to me, TheToast, and GMarshal in a PM with the title 'NMMXIX Night 2 Action'. Night 2 ends in 24 hours, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00)
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uhh wtf? Anacletus was lynched?
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Spectator man, copy/paste just ain't working out.
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Again for good measure.
Fixing...
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Poor Anacletus, doomed to die night after night...
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Seriously guys, you made the exact same misstake 2 times in a row. WHen will you learn. And for the record, eveything I said was true.
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Ok, please tell me you fixed the name but forgot to update the role.
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On July 04 2012 06:06 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Ok, please tell me you fixed the name but forgot to update the role.
No, the role is correct
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sorry Intact - I tried. gg
What is the deal with Fencar? Is he being modkilled? Also, do you already have a replacement for Blind-Rawr or is he liable to be modkilled as well?
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Fuck. Sorry, Intact. You could have at least posted those reads you promised us, it makes no sense that you didn't given that you were town.
Okay, it's 23:00 and my wife thinks I'm an idiot for staying up late to find out what happened. This is obviously a horrible position, but don't give up hope. We can still get out of this.
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Erm.. .Well fuck
Me thinks I'm dead now.
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Keirathi will be replacing BLinD-RawR, because I forgot about Fencar needing to be replaced and already sent out his role pm.
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United States5162 Posts
So no scum, not blue, not information from blues, do we even have any god damn blues?! WTF.
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United States5162 Posts
We've lynched two fucking townies and learned not a god damn thing.
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On July 04 2012 06:12 ghost_403 wrote:
Keirathi will be replacing BLinD-RawR, because I forgot about Fencar needing to be replaced and already sent out his role pm.
lol. Okay. Good night, guys.
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Hola, fellas.
Going to go through the thread and make some notes. I'll post my thoughts in a few hours.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 04 2012 06:06 Intact wrote:
Seriously guys, you made the exact same misstake 2 times in a row. WHen will you learn. And for the record, eveything I said was true.
Yea, we did, but it doesn't help at all when you clam up and stop posting when put under the gun, after barely posting at all to begin with. I'm pretty fucking frustrated right now.
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Don't count your chickens Bob. Depending on Fencar's flip
He's dead now right?
We may have better people to lynch.
gg Intact. Agree with Umlaut: Everyone else, post your goddamn reads if you say you will so this stops happening. Broken promises make you look like scum. Really sloppy play.
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Also, I'm at work so I won't be able to delve into anything for about 5 hours.
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Because I accidentally replaced BLinD-RawR first, I'm going to wait a bit longer before I flip him. If I don't get another replacement by the end of the night, I will flip him with the Day post.
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@keirathi
welcome! Sorry, but you inherit suspicions from the actions of BLind-Rawr. If you are town, I ask that you make an effort to post a lot over the next few days and convince me of your innocence.
Am I allowed to use the words/actions of mods as evidence towards determining players' roles?
@ghost
gratz on your 1000th post. I'm impressed that you remembered to change the number after copy+pasting your 500th :p
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Just got back from work.
Fuck me! I was so sure for the second time in as many cycles...
I can't believe how many replacements we're getting in this game. I almost won't be ashamed if we lose it with all these players popping in and out. We've lost Blindy, Fencar and Monk to the mod killing: how does that even happen in one game?
Blues, assuming you exist, you need to give us something.
Kiethwhateveri: please give us some reads and thoughts. We had pretty much nothing from the guy you are replacing and what we had seemed scummier than a millpond.
I have to go grocery shopping now but I'll be back around again in this night cycle and I'll make sure to post my reads before the end of it in case I die tonight, I urge the rest of you to do the same. Every townie should post their reads before this cycle ends, we need everyone working to find scum and we need to do it now. We'll probably lose another townie tonight (I'm assuming our medic mis-saves or that we only had a jk) and I'd love to have his/her thoughts before that happens.
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@Promethelax @sciberbia:
I will do my best to alleviate suspicions on myself. I just ask that people look for the merit in my posts, rather than being biased because you already have a read on something I had zero control over. I know that's hard to do, but I'll try to be as open as possible.
Also:
On July 04 2012 06:29 Promethelax wrote:
Kiethwhateveri:
teehee :D
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On July 04 2012 06:56 Keirathi wrote:@Promethelax @sciberbia: I will do my best to alleviate suspicions on myself. I just ask that people look for the merit in my posts, rather than being biased because you already have a read on something I had zero control over. I know that's hard to do, but I'll try to be as open as possible. Also: teehee :D
I hope you have something for us soon, I can't believe how dead this thread is.
Sciberbia: who do you have town reads on? I know you have scum reads on Blindy and Bob but I'm wondering about the rest of your reads.
I think you seem town as does Umlaut.
I'm reading null on Myles and iamimperfection. I'm trying to add Kieth to this list in a benefit of the doubt kind of way but nothing Blindy gave us looked town and all Kieth has said is that he will show us that he is totally town, he hasn't done shit since than.
Hopeless is somewhere between my scum reads and my null reads. I'm not quite sure what to say about him really.
Bob (and Blindy but you know...replaced) and Fencar seem scummy to me though I really don't want to try to lynch Fencar since he is totally absent and even if he is mafia he would be the perfect candidate for a bus or if he is town a bandwagon so I don't think we would gain anything from his lynch, I think Bob is the best candidate this cycle though I want to hear more from Kieth (I'm sorry, I have a hard enough time with peoples AKAs who I see post regularly and who have been in this game since the beginning) and if he stays lurky or scummy he might be a better lynch than Bob.
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I'm working on a big list of notes, but it takes a while to go through ~20 pages with a fine tooth comb, plus I took a nap this afternoon.
I'll try to get something up before i go to bed tonight, but it might not be until tomorrow sometime.
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@Promethelax
I haven't really looked at the game since the lynch. I'll be going through everyone's filters tonight/tomorrow (I'm off work). So as of yet, I honestly haven't looked closely at anybody besides the people I mentioned yesterday.
And anyway, I don't think it's a good idea to share townreads unless
a) the fact that person A is town is evidence toward person B being scum
b) your townread is in danger of being banned
The only decisions we need to make as a town are decisions of who to ban. Agreeing about townreads isn't really relevant towards that goal. It's not like we have to elect somebody mayor. More than anything, sharing townreads just gives the trolls more information for making their night-kill decisions.
I'll be reading some filters and will probably post some more/updated reads right before the deadline tomorrow.
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I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML.
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On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML.
You know, I did the same thing but instead of giving up, I started posting solid reads and getting involved. As a result, I still look scummy, but not quite as scummy as the other players. Either I'm a goddamn genius or it just took me a little while to get my townie feet under myself. I'm letting the cases I present and my activity demonstrate my towniness, not "HEY GAIZ IM A TOWNIE FOR SURE!11"
If you can get a "whole bunch of shit put together" thats not damage control. Damage control is what Intact did, only defending his posts and the case against himself which looks scummy. Contributing to town is...well, contributing. It reflects well on you and while you could be seen as shifting suspicion, if your read is that good, we'll notice and actually think before we autolynch the next scummiest player at any given point in time. Post it before someone else gets the chance so you don't look like you're bandwagoning.
Keirathi pretty much gets a pass until the nk since he just got here, though I really would like to see some reads before such a time. I'm concerned that there just isn't much to go on without stretching reads pretty thin on players who up till now have seemed like town. Hopefully, Keirathi is town and doesn't have any bias regarding our reads since he's starting with all the information we currently have instead of piecing together as we go along.
I'm going to wait to post my reads until tomorrow, give our newest replacement a chance to catch up and give us another fresh perspective. I should be able to post before the deadline, I usually get a break at work that I can write up my reads before noon.
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On July 04 2012 06:28 sciberbia wrote:
@keirathi
welcome! Sorry, but you inherit suspicions from the actions of BLind-Rawr. If you are town, I ask that you make an effort to post a lot over the next few days and convince me of your innocence.
Am I allowed to use the words/actions of mods as evidence towards determining players' roles?
@ghost
gratz on your 1000th post. I'm impressed that you remembered to change the number after copy+pasting your 500th :p
Q never got answered. Either way, the information skews the game no matter what so its not really a very credible source of evidence in my opinion.
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On July 04 2012 12:47 Hopeless1der wrote:
Keirathi pretty much gets a pass until the nk since he just got here, though I really would like to see some reads before such a time. I'm concerned that there just isn't much to go on without stretching reads pretty thin on players who up till now have seemed like town. Hopefully, Keirathi is town and doesn't have any bias regarding our reads since he's starting with all the information we currently have instead of piecing together as we go along.
I will definitely have my read/thoughts post up before the night ends. I definitely have gotten some reads, even just from d1, but it's a bit pointless to post it now until I get through everything. I have about a page full of notes currently, and I'm not quite to the end of D1
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Okay, I promised a list of my thoughts/reads, so here we go. Beware, this is EXTREMELY long. I spent quite a lot of time pouring through absolutely everything I possibly could.
+ Show Spoiler +Just a note: Let me start off by apologizing for the formatting. I'm just using notepad and letting my thoughts free flow as I go. I am noting things as I go through the thread sequentually. I'm attempting not to go back and change my notes when new information comes up, because I don't feel thats helpful. Posting my notes and reads as the points come up, rather than a cumulative "after-the-fact" gives a better insight into my thought process. The numbers beside people's names are the % chance I feel of them being Mafia (the higher the number, the more likely I feel they are Mafia). The %chance numbers are cumulative feedback. Note 2: I made the decision to ignore points relating to Fencar reads after the fact he asked to be modkilled. I feel like its pointless for me to speculate on that stuff when his role will be flipped soon, or we can take up the case again if he is replaced. Anacletus (Dead - Lynched) - JailerNot really much to say here, he voted Fencer on a weak argument then abandoned defending his choice and himself when he started getting pressure. Can't really find much useful information here. Myles - 60D1 - "I think getting people to talk is a good idea, and if a witch hunt is the only way to that than so be it. And I don't really have a better idea, so witch hunt it is I guess." -- Kinda Flip-Floppy. Not a lot of activity. When he gets called out on his activity levels, he dismisses it, then tries to switch the suspicion on even less active players, but keeps his vote on Fencar. Changes vote at the end of the day (new swing vote, after Jingle unvoted) to Anacletus just because of his inactivity. Defended Hopeless some. N1 - Accuses people of bandwagonning when he did that himself. Defended his defense of Hopeless. Points a lot of fingers at Fencer, almost certainly not scumteam together. D2 - Hasn't posted much useful stuff yet. Calls out some people for lurking. Announces a read on Prom and Umlaut as townies. Calls the Bob post relevent ("JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite." [I talk about why this is a completely irrelevent post in my Bob section]). Still pushes towards an Intact lynch, with Fencar as a secondary. Jumps on the Intact wagon late (Maybe buying a way out if he gets called for the double bandwagon'ing? "I just didnt want a no-lynch so I went with my read that I already helped push votes to!"). N2 - Quite the outburst for killing a VT! Where was that passion when you killed the JK on D1? And you were on the votes for both of them. NrGmonk/sciberbia - 25D1 - Pretty cautious, not much actual content. Nice post at the end of the day with a reasonable defense argument for Anacletus, but seems to be too late to sway votes. Gives a weak ("noob rather than scum") defense of Fencar. Attempts to switch lurker pressure off of himself onto Bob, and to a lesser extent Intact, Myles, and Blind (me now). Points some weak arguments towards Intact. N1 - Not replaced yet. D2 - Sciberbia posting now. His first post is mostly just fluff introductions. Starts off with the wrong idea: trying to make/break cases against people that already have established cases against them. This is confirmation bias. Its so easy to look through a filter of someone that everyone else already says is mafia and pick out little things that the person said and see what other people have said. That's why I made my notes like this. I'm going through making notes as I get to things, rather than unintentionally reading between the lines of things just because other peoples opinions have planted the seed into my subconcious. That said: your overall read on Intact was so spot on that its eerie. Why didn't anyone else see it? Do you have information that they didn't have? I totally agree with your read on BlinD, even though that's me now. Hopefully I can convince people otherwise :D FoS's on both Bob and BlinD, mostly for lurking. Hammers the Intact wagon solely to avoid a no-lynch when he doesn't think (or KNOWS?) that Intact is town. JingleHell (Dead - Night Killed) - VanillaD1 - Suspected Umlaut early. Points a finger at Hopeless about the swing vote argument, and again later regarding the same topic. Eventually makes a large case against him, and ##Votes him. N1 - Made a case against Hopeless and got night killed. Either to fake a trail to Hopeless to get him lynched (which doesn't happen), or possibly in defense of him. Listed his potential suspects as Hopeless, Myles, and Fencer before he died. AmericanUmlaut - 30D1 - Proposes new idea, but at the same time is an that could be seen to be scum-biased (Lynch all Liars). Supplies compelling argument against Myles and Monk, while keeping his vote on Anacletus, downplaying Fencar's play as just being bad and therefor ignorable. Points a finger at Prom for the Fencar switch as well. Probably not mafia if Prom is, and vice versa. Switches vote to Hopeless based on Jingle's argument, but still backs a Anacletus lynch over a no-lynch (Which goes against the JingleHell argument to begin with [willing to vote a less-scummy read just to get a kill]). JH Calls him out on this (second time he's FoSd Umlaut). N1 - Only contribution was a flimsy pro-town sentiment of "don't discuss reads at night because it increases your risk of being shot". Obviously understands making arguments, but doesn't. Seems to just be skating by. D2 - Comes out with a big post on lynching lurkers, with some reads on the people who are lurking. Makes a big post "contributing" to the Intact case, which obviously turns out bad, bust mostly reuses a lot of the same arguments Hopeless already made. Guess his 1/4 chance bit him in the ass (or not?). Defends accusations against Myles out of nowhere. Makes a very odd argument against Fencar after he asked the mod to be replaced. Weakly defends Bob while pointing a finger at Hopeless without really saying why. Wait WHAT - "Playing inactive is a less risky role than joining more actively in discussion, which leads me to believe that Intact is the most likely of the three to have an ability." ?!? Most likely to have a blue role? Then why would you want to lynch him? Comes around later to defend Hopeless and further pushes the Intact lynch without actually making more points (actually argues about sciberbia's reads in his INTACT IS THE BEST LYNCH paragraph, which I don't see how are relevent). Keeps his intact vote in place, while making points against Bob at the end of the day. Intact (Dead - Lynched) - VanillaD1 - Picked up on the scummy Prom switch to Fencar and commented on it. No other real contributions. N1 - No contributions. D2 - Points some fingers back at Prom before he died, which influences the final votes to get him wagoned. BobeTheLob - 40 (but hard to really get a read on)D1 - Very, very little said, then jumps in on the Anacletus vote without giving any real justification. Only defends himself with "I'm new" and still doesn't post content. Somehow argues that he's actually contributing, when its clear that he hasnt. N1 - Posted a list of reads that had very little in the way of actual reads (Lots of "I don't knows" and piggybacking on other arguments). Despite this, he feels like a newbie town rather than a scum at this point. D2 - "JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite." This is the most useless thing said yet. He basically said "With JH dead, it could be anyone!" Obvious, and useless fluff. Can't really be posting fluff on D2. Comes out of the woodworks with a weak defense to sciberbias FoS, still giving no reads. Again, quickly to his own self defense when Perfection agrees with sciberbia's reads. Really convenient that he's around when he's getting pressure, and apologizing for his previous lurking. Dismisses all previous cases as guesswork and assumption. Mentions that people should look at Hopeless (but doesn't actually make arguments for himself). iamperfection - 30D1 - Extremely non-commital and uncooperative early. Restarts the Anacletus vote train rolling after people started making cases against Fencar. Doesn't make many reads, other than accosting Bob after an admittedly useless post. N1 - Comes out of nowhere with some pro-town sentiment to use more logic, but I don't really think this helps his case much because he hasn't been posting enough and he was in on the lynch vote. He seems to have a decent understanding of the game in his posts, but is still coasting by with the absolute minimum amount of posting/cooperation. D2 - Tries to defuse the Fencer vote on Hopeless by asking for Intact to respond to suspicions against himself? Defends Hopeless's case against Intact. Posts late in the day to defend BlinD (now me) against sciberbia's case. In the same post, agrees with sciberbia's accusation of Bob having wishy-washy reads, but still doesn't give reads of his own. Promethelax - 75Early D1 - Big anti-Anacletus sentiment, possibly scummy. Hard changes to Fencar after the Anacletus vote gains steam, albeit with a fairly well reasoned out post. Possible escape mechanism? Decent chance that he isn't mafia if Fencar is, and vice versa. "I'm 99% sure that if Anacletus flips town Fencer is scum." We'll see if he follows up with that in D2. Their (Fencar and Anacletus) posting hasn't targetted each other much at all (Fencar has been defending himself mostly, and Anacletus just not posting much), despite voting each other, so this sentiment doesn't make much sense. Biggest scum read so far, as its an easy thing to bring up in D2 after Anacletus flips town and base an argument around. Swing-votes to Anacletus despite the fact that he says Fencar is scummier. Uses some early Anacletus posts to say that hes FoS'ing Fencar, when he had been lobbying hard for him earlier anyways. N1 - Tries to cooperate with JH, who almost unanimously has been a town read. Escape plan for when JH is shot tonight, while perpetuating the Hopeless bus tomorrow? Tons of pressure towards Hopeless, lets see how its followed up tommorrow. If he keeps up a lot of pressure, one of them is probably mafia, but almost definitely not both. Still feels scummy that he completely forgets his "99% sure of scum if Anacletus flips town" argument on Fencer. More evidence of a possible escape plan later ("I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one."). Easy to see why a night kill of JH would make sense if he was mafia. Still my strongest scum read at this point. Makes some compelling arguments against Myles, which could definitely get Myles lynched. Almost certainly not scumteam with him. However in the post against Myles, he said "You'll see in the above post two soft defenses of town players (JH and Anacletus)," Possible scum slip? He has said previously that he believes JH to be town, but this specific line seems to say that he 100% knows that JH is town. Just more evidence for the escape plan when JH is night killed, IMO. D2 - Ugh, useless drunk posting. Immediately jumps on Fencar for the post of other people's reads, although makes some really silly points in it. Addresses his D1 cases against Fencar, still without mentioning the "99% sure" part (he quotes other posts he made against Fencar, but not that one). Same post: "The three people that JH was looking at as scum before he died were Hopeless, Fencar and Myles...The one I am most sure of is Fencar[...]" Lets see how much conviction you have with it this time, and how much you push it if you are so sure. Makes an interesting observation that he would have investigated Umlaut if he was DT night1, but says he trusts that he's town now. Now that Fencar is out (who he still claims was his biggest read, despite not voting for him), he shifts his attention to Intact, who had the largest number of cases against him, as well as a case by Umlat whom he says he trusts as town now. Probably the start of the bandwagon, here. Further propogates the Intact lynch again, without adding much other than saying he didn't buy Intact's explanation of his internet working. Something else about him thats bothering me at this point: almost every post is something like "I'm Townie! Look how townie I am! Some other townie come help me make cases!" I feel like he's trying to hard to convince everyone that he's town, and he's getting away with it just because of JH. Fencar - (Honestly no idea. His play was so boggling and he just gave up.)D1 - "For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\" Extremely bad stance for a town to take early in d1. He says its because he's new. He gives no new input or ideas, just relays things other people have said, and follows votes around. Constanly uses being a newbie as a defense after some attention switches to him, but it's a somewhat believable defense. Then uses the mafia guide to defend himself??? Gradually feeling less and less like scum, and just a new townie trying to figure out the proper way to post. Then actually encourages the vote on Anacletus with a "bandwagon him or me" post. Really hard to get a read on this guy because hes all over the place. Now he really throws me for a loop, with a thorough (albeit flimsy) defense of Prom, who has hard accused him all game and had no incoming pressure. N1 - Where has he been? D2 - Out of nowhere he says "It looks like JingeHell was killed for being intelligent, rather than being specifically suspicious of anyone." JH was suspicious (and posted his suspect list) of multiple people, so it doesn't make any sense at all. 4 posts later, he starts the ball rolling by FoS'ing Intact, then says "I think the dead men got their votes right" and adds Hopeless to his FoS list as well. I thought you just said it looked like JH was killed because of his intelligence, rather than being suspicious of anyone? Make up your mind. Immediately makes a new post and votes Hopeless entirely based on Prom's post against him, without adding any justification for why he agreed with it. Lays out a nice post of reads people have made, and who hasn't made any (I can't double check his conclusions because I don't really have time to go through filters at this point. I'm at ~7 hours of taking notes just reading sequentially as is ), but at the same time this doesn't really add anything. Everyone has the ability to check the filters. You need your own reads, not just a list of others. Says he gives up now, asks to be replaced. Frustrated townie, or frustrated scum? If he doesn't get replaced by D3 and gets modkilled, all of these notes will be very interesting. Hopeless1der - 50D1 - Very little activity early, jumps on a useless post that was a reply to the host. Defends Anacletus a bit later on. Jumps on a Fencar post with the argument "I don't think your posting is scummy, just unproductive" and votes him. Convenient argument for not being the hammer vote on D1 ("As you've already changed your vote to ensure a lynch, it probably doesn't matter anymore, but I was going to do the same thing (Switch vote from Fencer to Anacletus) closer to the deadline (unless Fencer got jumped).") N1 - Defends himself by saying he didn't think Anacletus or Fencer were scummy, while he voted Fencer and said he would jump to Anacletus at the last minute if he had to. Why voting people you don't feel are scum? Not wanting to No-Lynch isn't a good enough reason, IMO. D2 - First fully laid out case against Intact. Makes a strong case that probably eventually lead to the townie lynch. Where's the information on other people, rather than tunneling the one? Oh, its a few posts down. Makes a case against BlinD (now me), but it has no real hard leads (almost solely just that he's lurking and isnt contributing, which is certainly useful [obviously, I've mentioned numerous times in those notes about people not posting], but not exactly damning at this point), and objectively feels pretty weak. Points some more small arguments towards Bob that are along the same lines. Redirecting attention towards others to keep it off of himself? Towards BlinD: "I want to see reads, not vague accusations of what might be scummy behaviour." when this is exactly what his cases against BlinD and Bob are; cases against their activity level rather than reads on the content. "However, the more time spent on me is less time spent on any other case." Don't want time spent on you? Seems to have dramatically stepped up his activity on D2, which is odd. Day 1 Final Votes: Anacletus : BLinD-RawR(me now), BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact (Townie), iamperfection, Promethelax, Myles Intact (Town) : Anacletus (Town) Fencer710 : Hopeless1der Hopeless1der : AmericanUmlaut, JingleHell Day 2 Final Votes: BLinD-RawR (1): Intact Intact (6): AmericanUmlaut, BobTheLob, Promethelax, Hopeless1der, Myles, sciberbia Hopeless1der(1): Fencar BobTheLob (1): iamperfection The repeat votes on the mislynches: BobTheLob, Promethelax, Myles I think there is a very good possibility that at least one of the Mafia is in this list.
So, without further adieu, thanks for welcoming me to the game, and I hope people have comments! Off to bed now, will check back in in the morning.
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My dad just flew in from the States, and I've got to run off and eat lunch with him today, but I'm going to respond to Keirathi's comments on me real quick:
D1 - Proposes new idea, but at the same time is an that could be seen to be scum-biased (Lynch all Liars). What is scum-biased about Lynch all Liars? Misinformation serves the PBUs' interest, there is no advantage to be gained by town players lying, and establishing that as a rule early on prevents a play later in the game in which scum escapes a lynch by convincing town that their lie was tactical.
Supplies compelling argument against Myles and Monk, while keeping his vote on Anacletus, downplaying Fencar's play as just being bad and therefor ignorable. My call-out on Myles and Monk was that they were inactive. My read on Myles was slightly scummier than pure inactivity, but not as strong as the read I had on Anacletus (as incorrect as that turned out to be).
Switches vote to Hopeless based on Jingle's argument, but still backs a Anacletus lynch over a no-lynch (Which goes against the JingleHell argument to begin with [willing to vote a less-scummy read just to get a kill]). JH Calls him out on this (second time he's FoSd Umlaut). I explained this already once before, but I'll point it out again: If I'm voting for an 80% scum read and the choice is between a no-lynch and a 60% scum read, then the 60% read is obviously the better play. The point isn't "just to get a kill", it's to make a probable scum lynch rather than sticking to an even more probably vote and ending up with nothing.
N1 - Only contribution was a flimsy pro-town sentiment of "don't discuss reads at night because it increases your risk of being shot". Obviously understands making arguments, but doesn't. Seems to just be skating by. This argument makes no sense. What's "flimsy" about keeping quiet at night? Town can take no collective action at night, so putting more information into the thread can be of help only to the PBUs.
"Playing inactive is a less risky role than joining more actively in discussion, which leads me to believe that Intact is the most likely of the three to have an ability." ?!? Most likely to have a blue role? Then why would you want to lynch him? Is this an intentional failure to understand me? My point wasn't that complicated. From the scumteam's perspective, if you're giving out more and less dangerous roles, you want to give the less dangerous role (the lurker) to the player who has a power, as that player is more valuable.
I've got to spend a bit more time with your post, just because of its length, but a first read-through feels like you're just pointing fingers at everybody without drawing any actual conclusions. You know there are only three scum, right? The only players you seem to be willing to reach actual conclusions on are already dead and identified. I was leaning hard toward BLinD-RawR as a candidate for our next ban before he dropped out, two pages of "everyone is suspicious!" is a better contribution than he ever gave us, but it's not moving the needle on my read.
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Argg can't sleep.
On July 04 2012 19:34 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
What is scum-biased about Lynch all Liars? Misinformation serves the PBUs' interest, there is no advantage to be gained by town players lying, and establishing that as a rule early on prevents a play later in the game in which scum escapes a lynch by convincing town that their lie was tactical.
From previous experience, scum is more likely to keep the lies to a minimum, or when they do lie, to be really small lies and hard to prove that they are lying. Cornered townies are the ones who make up big lies (See NMM XVIII, where a townie claims DT when he's pressured on D2). At the very least, mafia are going to put more thought and reason into their lies (3 heads are better than one), which makes them less likely to get caught lying.
On July 04 2012 19:34 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I explained this already once before, but I'll point it out again: If I'm voting for an 80% scum read and the choice is between a no-lynch and a 60% scum read, then the 60% read is obviously the better play. The point isn't "just to get a kill", it's to make a probable scum lynch rather than sticking to an even more probably vote and ending up with nothing.
I was just making an observation. "I explained this once before" is irrelevant. I was making notes as I went, not looking at posts in the future to dictate my notes.
On July 04 2012 19:34 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Is this an intentional failure to understand me?]
No, with clarification, I understand your point now. I'm not really sure Mafia are ever like "Okay, I'm going to talk a lot, you be the lurker!" though. Maybe so. If they do, then your point has merit.
On July 04 2012 19:34 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
but a first read-through feels like you're just pointing fingers at everybody without drawing any actual conclusions.
My goal WAS to point fingers at everyone. Like I said, I started combing through from the beginning of the game. The only things I knew before I started reading was who had died already. So if I'm looking at Day1, I have to assume everyone is mafia, so that's what I did.
But to say I didn't draw conclusions is wrong. I most certainly did, with my %scum numbers, but I guess I can lay it out for you.
My top 3 scummy reads were (in order): 1) Promethelax (75%) 2) Myles (60%) 3) Hopeless (50%) Althought I might possibly bump Bob up to 50% as well.
That said, I don't necessarily think those 3 are the scum team. More flips will certainly change the odds. But individually, those are my biggest reads.
On July 04 2012 19:34 AmericanUmlaut wrote:I was leaning hard toward BLinD-RawR as a candidate for our next ban before he dropped out, two pages of "everyone is suspicious!" is a better contribution than he ever gave us, but it's not moving the needle on my read.
I certainly don't expect to change people's minds with 1 post. And everyone IS suspicious. That's the nature of the game. We have no hard evidence to clear or convict anyone.
This biggest case against BlinD was his inactivity, and I aim to change that entirely. If you want to lynch me, then fine, but lynch me based on MY merits, not his.
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EBWOP: Oops I forgot a point.
This argument makes no sense. What's "flimsy" about keeping quiet at night? Town can take no collective action at night, so putting more information into the thread can be of help only to the PBUs.
What I meant was, it felt like you were trying to establish your townie-ship, and using this as your way to do it was weak. I don't necessarily think are are wrong, nor right. I think there are merits to both sides. Do you assume that JH was shot because of the things he said on n1? Or was he meta-gamed? Either way, the discussions he had on night 1 gave us more evidence to build on when he was eventually shot.
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Sorry I don't have more time to post, I'm sure you all are tired of hearing it by now but I have to go to work.
Kieth: thanks for coming in with reads, it is too bad your biggest scum read is me though since I kno you are wrong about it. Hopefully you'll check out the other guys high on your list and figure out what is really up.
I'm going to lay out my ten second defense so that you don't waste the whole day going after me and instead hunt real scum.
First off this post explains pretty well why I switched votes from Fencar to Anacletus:
On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks.
I think that is pretty obviously a good reason to switch votes. I was sure that Fencar would flip red (I still am sure of that) but since no one would follow me on that lynch I had to switch my vote, the timing of my work is pretty awful for this game.
As to Fencar, you will note that most of my posts still talk about him, I still think that he is scum. I continued to pressure him and would have voted him but he dropped out, the only thing I posted about him that suggested that I wasn't still thinking of him as my top target was a drunk post I made when I said I was only watching him a little.
I kept the pressure on and posted about why he was scum right before he dropped out of the game. I didn't follow up my Fencar is 99% scum if Anacletus is town because I didn't have anything to add to it; I had a case to build on his actions which I felt showed that so I didn't have to repeat my assertion (which I still believe to be true) that that flip reenforces Fencar as red.
In my first post after Fencars replacement I said “This seems totally right, if Fencar is going to be Ghost'd to death we shouldn't bother lynching him. If he gets replaced we'll re-open the case and lynch the replacement for being scum.”
That is my reasoning for dropping the case for the time being, if you had replaced Fencar believe me I would have opened that can of worms right up. Because he is on the verge of a mod-kill I don't believe it is useful to go after him, I also don't like attacking people who can't respond since than, even if they are town, we gain nothing from their lynch.
So after I lost my main red read to the ether I looked around again to find the next reddest guy, there were solid cases on Intact that had been made by other people and I am more confidant about being able to discuss a case than that the ones I build are 100% right. Intact seemed scummy, acted scummy, didn't contribute and seemed like he would have a good chance of being lynched. Again my work schedule means I have to vote about 10 hours before the deadline which throws me off some.
As to that scum-slip, yeah, no. One was dead by that point and the other was my biggest townie read. I should have worded it differently but I didn't.
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Miltonkram will be replacing Fencar..
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On July 04 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
I'm going to lay out my ten second defense so that you don't waste the whole day going after me and instead hunt real scum.
First up on things not to say when someone is suspicious of you....
Don't like having attention on yourself?
On July 04 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
As to Fencar, you will note that most of my posts still talk about him, I still think that he is scum. I continued to pressure him and would have voted him but he dropped out, the only thing I posted about him that suggested that I wasn't still thinking of him as my top target was a drunk post I made when I said I was only watching him a little.
I kept the pressure on and posted about why he was scum right before he dropped out of the game. I didn't follow up my Fencar is 99% scum if Anacletus is town because I didn't have anything to add to it; I had a case to build on his actions which I felt showed that so I didn't have to repeat my assertion (which I still believe to be true) that that flip reenforces Fencar as red.
Lets clear some things up.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 11:15 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. I'm 99% sure that if Anacletus flips town Fencer is scum. His behaviour makes no sense otherwise. I still think Anacletus might be scum if he is than Fencer is probably town but if Anacletus is town Fencer is almost definitely scum. If, when I wake up tomorrow, we don't have enough votes for a lynch I'll unvote and vote for Anacletus since a no lynch won't help us at all and if he flips town I'm sure that Fencer is scum. We should never lynch for information, obviously but we should be ready to use the information from our lynches.
Where did that even come from?
The only things that Fencer even said against Anacletus prior to that was
+ Show Spoiler +
- Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot.
This may suggest that both Anacletus and Jinglehell may both be mafia. Jinglehell points his finger at Monk after pointing it at Anacletus, then Anacletus points it at Jinglehell.
And then he votes him, unvotes, and revotes.
Are the things he said a bit fishy? Definitely. Are they "99% sure" fishy? Hell no.
The fact of the matter is that "99% sure" mentality is a good way to come back later and be like "Hey guys, remember this thing I said on day 1? Well Fencar is still alive now, and I've been talking about him all game, so there's an even better chance that I'm right now! Lets lynch him!". You've kept up a constant small amount of pressure towards him, but like I said, even on D2 when you made your big case against him, you still didn't reference your 99% sure mentality. You just made the same case anyone else would have made.
It doesn't add up, to me.
On July 04 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
So after I lost my main red read to the ether I looked around again to find the next reddest guy, there were solid cases on Intact that had been made by other people and I am more confidant about being able to discuss a case than that the ones I build are 100% right.
Again, Mafia mentality. You've propagated other people's cases, added a minimal amount of personal input, and skated by with it. Your saving grace this game has just been that you've been so active (and yelling "Look at me I'm a townie!" all the time), that you've managed to get this far without anyone reading up much on what you've done.
On July 04 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
As to that scum-slip, yeah, no. One was dead by that point and the other was my biggest townie read. I should have worded it differently but I didn't.
That's exactly what a scum-slip IS. Maybe this isn't one, but saying "No it isn't!" helps your case about as much as saying "I'm a vanilla townie!" when someone points suspicion at you. I just wanted other people to be aware of it and to make up their own minds about your intention.
All in all, your post did nothing to alleviate my suspicions, and actually probably made you look even more scummy in the process.
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Hey guys, I'll be busy until about 8-12 hours from now. I'll catch up on the thread then.
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Unfortunately our strongest reads have either flipped town or have been replaced, so its hard to stick to the case on Fencar/Miltonkram, or to build a solid case on BLiND-RawR/Keirathi. Fencar was decisively anti-town, but perhaps not scum. I know JH and others were adamantly against lynching when I wasn't certain of scum, but if I can't confidently identify scum, I'd rather lynch anti-town behavior on the chance that I get scum, which is what I view Fencar's play as. If my reasons or reads are not good enough, I'm trusting the rest of town to point out the scummier player to me when I don't see it.
The most suspicious person I've identified based on the way the game has progressed is AmericanUmlaut. While he's been active, he hasn't posted very detailed reads. He also backed the Intact case, essentially copying mine and expanding on it, but never actually acknowledged that I'd made a case. In addition, the way his "Lurker PBU" Post went, he completely brushed off the actual lurkers in favor of the case he really wanted to discuss.
He was also involved in both mislynches, but switched his vote Day1 after the bandwagon had started to roll. His vote was against me, but he has never really gone into any detail about his read on me, just piggy backing JH's case from Day1.
This suspicion hasn't been addressed by him, but he's carried it through at the end of his Intact case, which as I've pointed out came AFTER mine:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 20:53 AmericanUmlaut wrote:The lurking PBUThere are currently four posters whose activity levels are low enough that I'd characterize them as lurking: Intact, BobTheLob, Blind-Rawr and iamperfection all have less than a page of posts, which is very little considering the amount of discussion that went on prior to the game actually starting. There are three PBUs. If they are playing intelligently, they will have noticed from the beginning that this game has had a fairly large number of lurkers, and one of them will be chilling among them and doing their best to just scoot by. It's possible that two scum are lurking, but I would guess that the others are among the more active posters because having only a single active community member puts you in a bad position if that player gets lynched; the PBUs lose their ability to manipulate debate, and one of the previous lurkers trying to establish their voice afterward is obviously scummy play. I think that my logic for concluding that at least one of the four low-post players is a PBU is strategically sound. Ideally we would flush them out by getting the other three to start posting more analysis, but I think it's clear at this point that we're going to have to win this with a couple of low-content players amongst us, which means we need to figure out which of the lurkers is most likely our PBU. We have little to go on, but let's take a look at what's available: iamperfection: His posting day 1 was worthless. Since day 2 has begun, he's started to participate, albeit in a very low-key manner. I'd like to see more thought-out posts from him, but I'm leaning toward his being one of the good guys and just unsure of how to play as the game got going. BobTheLob: His posting day 1 was worthless. His posting day 2 is worthless. My read is entirely worthless, because he's not playing. In an environment where everyone was being super productive and he was just posting about how drunk he is, I'd say let Kwark pop him, but I feel like the odds are too good that he's actually just a really awful town player to take that risk. Blind-RawR: Also posting so little actual analysis that it's hard to make any kind of useful read. However, Hopeless1der's case against him is such a stretch that my conclusion is that it's almost certainly a clumsy attempt at provoking another mislynch and that Blind_RawR is thus probably town. Which leaves us with: Intact: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. This is basically Intact's first move of the game: A vague reference to how maybe JH and Anacletus might both be scum, but presented in such a way that it's easy to distance yourself from later on. I acknowledge that I responded with agreement that this could be a useful bit of analysis if one of them flipped red, but knowing that both were town makes this look like an attempt to get discussion moving toward a mislynch. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. I really don't see anything suspicious about Promethelax's case against Fencer. I think I'm not alone when I say that he's around the top of the suspects list at the moment. What about Promethelax's analysis of Fencer's play seemed suspicious? This seems like an attempt to just sow dissent without any real logic behind it. And then comes this brilliant observation: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Anacletus was, in fact, one of the good guys. We banned him. By what logic are we now able to confirm some townies? This post is just stupid, and to me it stinks of someone who is playing with the full information that a PBU has, and hasn't thought through the logic of the limited information environment that we town players are in enough to fake logical conclusions that sound like they were made by a townie. Summary: Four players (25% of the game population) are posting at barely-there levels, which leads me to conclude that at least one PBU is almost certainly hiding among them. An analysis of the few posts that they have made leads me to conclude that Intact is by far the most suspicious among them. The scumteam I currently have in mind is Intact, hopeless1der and Fencer710. Of the three, I feel the most strongly about Intact and hopeless1der; I feel like Fencer could conceivable be really bad and having a panicky reaction to being suspected. If anyone could help me analyze the way those three have interacted to argue either in favor of or against my hypothesis, I'd really appreciate the help.
Regarding the bolded in the last paragraph of the quoted post above...serious conflicting ideas there considering I'd just posted a large case that unfortunately contributed to lunching a VT. He completely agreed with my case though, even if he never referenced it. Since then he still kind of keeps my scumminess on his backburner but never addresses the case against me, and it feels like hes waiting for someone to bring it back up so he can jump on it. I'm stuck in null-read (I hope) limbo and I feel like I'm an easy bandwagon target so I'm very suspicious of his play regarding the case on me.
Once Keirathi posted his detailed read of the thread so far, Umlaut felt it was necessary to piece-by-piece defend himself but has been pretty mute on the course of events otherwise. This isn't pro-town and sounds like he just wants to deflate Keirathi's contribution so that we end up with less credible information.
Then again, so did Promethelax, and I'm watching him a bit more closely now, but I don't feel Keirathi's read on him is as strong as he's made it out to be. In addition, Prom didn't really attack Keirathi's post, and felt like a much calmer, reasoned defense than the tone of AmericanUmlaut's.
FoS: AmericanUmlaut
There is still the issue of Fencar/Miltonkram's case to look at...I guess I'll wait until Milton has a chance to catch up? Or possibly what turns up after the NK. There isn't anything new to pursue on Fencar aside from drawing arbitrary conclusions on why he chose to give up and that is not worth it to me.
We're kind of forced to push that case based on what we had before Milton came in or else we lose a lot of our previous reads based on Fencar's behavior-related scumminess because Milton now has the opportunity to correct it even if he turns out to be scum.
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Hey, again. I'm glad to see that there's more real analysis going on in here, though I'm obviously a bit dismayed to see myself at the center of so much discussion. Like I said before, my dad just came to Germany to visit for a few days, and I don't have time today to do more than poke in and keep an eye on what's being posted. I'll be in tomorrow afternoon and evening as per my usual posting habits to collect my thoughts into more elaborate posts.
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Welcome Miltonkram! I'm happy to see that you are Fencar's replacement
Fencar is not getting modkilled, and several people have voiced strong suspicions on Fencar, so I took some time to do a close reading of his filter.
I do not think that Fencar is a good lynch
He reads to me like a nervous, newbie townie. Here are some points supporting that hypothesis:
his posting style and nervousness+ Show Spoiler +
I think a few people have remarked on Fencar's unproductive posting style. But, this is not a scumtell because it exactly matches his posts in the pregame. I would not hold his multitude of short posts against him.
Look at the timestamps of his posts. He often made many posts in quick succession. I always find quickly written posts to be a symptom of townies -- people that have nothing to hide.
My main point is:
If Fencar was scum, I really don't see why he'd be doing so much posting. He obiously did way more than enough posting not to be branded a lurker. I'd expect a nervous scum to avoid posting as much as possible. But Fencar evidently felt obligated to contribute, even though he was very nervous and under fire. This is symptomatic of a nervous townie.
His first post about agreeing with AmericanUmlaut+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencar wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ I could be wrong about this, but such an explicit bandwaggon and lack of contribution in his first post seems too obvious a scumtell, even for a newbie. I'd be surprised to see any scum make such an obviously poor first post. Scum would be especially nervous/paranoid about their first post and make sure it is good. A scum Fencar surely wouldn't want to draw any more attention than he already had after not posting for so long. While others have deemed this a scummy post by Fencar, I think it is actually a point in his favor. Reads as newbie townie.
bold and eager votes+ Show Spoiler +
Fencar was first to vote. He then unvoted after being scolded, but then revoted as soon as Intact voted on Anacletus.
Also on D2, Fencar was bold in voting hopeless1der so early.
Such bold voting reads newbie townie to me more than newbie scum. Newbie scum would be terrified of drawing attention for making the first vote.
Now while my overall read on Fencar is nervous newbie town, he does make a few suspicious posts:
-- made many posts not related to scumhunting
-- posts a town-analysis on Promethelax and bandwaggons on Intact
-- makes a list of who has or has not contributed
All of these points do read scummy, but they are also plausible actions for a newbie townie. I would not like for Fencar/Miltonkram to be our next lynch. Not only am I not convinced by the cases against Fencar, but I would like some time to get a read on Miltonkram.
I have a nasty feeling that I'm going to be killed tonight. But if not, I'll be spending some more time today reading filters. Due to my excessive sleeping in, I still have not gotten around to everyone's filter. So expect more serious posts from me over the next 12 hours.
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Hopeless1der: some nice points about Umlaut. Particularly the one regarding this:
AmericanUmlaut wrote:
The scumteam I currently have in mind is Intact, hopeless1der and Fencer710. Of the three, I feel the most strongly about Intact and hopeless1der;
I find these accusations highly strange, because of the fact that Hopeless was basically the first person to make a hard case against Intact (even before yours, which you piggybacked off of), and before anyone else has voted. I would very, very, very highly doubt them of being a scumteam at that point. Not saying that one or the other isn't maf, but the probability that both are maf are close enough to 0, that your post seems especially scummy.
On July 04 2012 21:42 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 19:34 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I explained this already once before, but I'll point it out again: If I'm voting for an 80% scum read and the choice is between a no-lynch and a 60% scum read, then the 60% read is obviously the better play. The point isn't "just to get a kill", it's to make a probable scum lynch rather than sticking to an even more probably vote and ending up with nothing. I was just making an observation. "I explained this once before" is irrelevant. I was making notes as I went, not looking at posts in the future to dictate my notes.
I just want to make another note on this. I forgot how much it had bothered me when JH pointed it out, and while i mentioned it in my notes, I feel slightly stronger about it now.
You exact words were + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far. On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch.
This is so contradicting. You basically said "Arguing for mislynch is scummier than arguing for a no-lynch, but I will perpetuate a mislynch so that we don't no-lynch today". I understand your defense you posted to my notes, but I'm really not sure that's a good enough excuse for such a glaring flip-flop in the span of a few lines. Bumps my % up a few ticks, for sure.
As for as you Hopeless:
Hopeless1der wrote:
Then again, so did Promethelax, and I'm watching him a bit more closely now, but I don't feel Keirathi's read on him is as strong as he's made it out to be. In addition, Prom didn't really attack Keirathi's post, and felt like a much calmer, reasoned defense than the tone of AmericanUmlaut's.
While I appreciate you at least posting something regarding Prom, I don't feel this helps your case as mafia, nor his, because both of you were in my top 3 reads. You basically just gave such a super soft defense of him that it looks more like you're scumteam than it looks like you're a townie trying to clear his name.
Your posting style changed so much between day1 and day2 as well. What caused it? You obviously are intelligent and make rational arguments, that it just makes your day1 style even more suspect. Sorry, I just still have you as a very high read; just too many little things (and a few big ones) that have added up over time.
At least you posted about other people rather than yourself though, which is a welcome change. The intention with these notes was to spark discussion by everyone, about everyone. People coming here just to defend their selves, when their individual section is such a small part of the whole document, doesn't really contribute anything to further discussion. I kind of feel bad about digging into your case more when you were objectively helping me out, but I feel like its my job as a townsperson to thoroughly investigate everyone individually and present my cases. Sorry
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End of Night 2
Inside the large building of one of NYC's largest telecom companies it's completely dark now, save for the red glow of the exit signs and small flood of the city light from the occasional small windows. The stillness is disrupted by a sudden bang and crash, as the air vent over the conference room table clatters as it hits the top of the table. From the air vent, a figure descends. He is cloaked in the secrecy of darkness, no more than his outline is discernible.
ghost_403 was right, the conspiracy was going to try to tap into the TL web server. But it wasn't TheToast himself. The man had been waiting in the air vent for hours as Ghost say waiting below him, gun at the ready. But patients had paid off.
The man grabbed his bag and moved with speed and purpose through the office. He stopped at a large heavy wooden door with a security lock. The intruder quickly pulled out a set of lock picks and with professional speed opened the door. Inside were rows of loud rack servers, all indistinguishable. But the man knew exactly where he was going. He made his way to the server, pulled a laptop from his bag and hooked it up. He started TheToast's program and it worked like a charm, he had direct connection to the TL central computer.
But suddenly, he heard the distinct ding of the elevator and the rumble of it's doors opening. He knew he didn't have time to accomplish his full mission. He would have to settle for less. He went in the user directory and found the name of conspiracies worst enemies. They would be an enemy no longer as the swift ban hammer of injustice came down on them. He quickly grabbed his stuff and made his way to the stair well, just as the security guard discovered the air vent.
Perhaps he wasn't able to accomplish his full mission for TheToast, but the conspiracy now had one less person in their way.... one step closer to full victory....
Sciberbia playing the part of a the ABL Poster, has been found dead!
Day 3 has begun. You have 48 hours to decide on your next lynch.
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So cruel! Got to play for 48 hours gg all
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gg sciberbia. You were my best town read!
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@Keirathi
With respect to my brief paragraph about Prom, that was more of an afterthought that someone might have brought up as a flaw in my reasoning against Umlaut. It was my take on their tone in their response to you and less about the content of their respective defenses. Ultimately, I find AmericanUmlaut to be the scummier looking player, based on my reads and his hostile tone through his defense, and that was the main point I wanted to convey without looking like I'd just dismissed the fact that your strongest read was Promethelax.
wrt myself:
The most basic thing that altered my posting was that I sought advice from the coaches after JH built a reasonable case on me during the whole mislynching for info ordeal.
Early on I wasn't especially serious because of all the joke posts going around, and that came back to bite a number of us in the ass, Anacletus first and foremost.
I then dug myself into a hole with my whole mislynch vs no lynch nonsense, and I doubt very much I'll ever get to full town cred because of my foolishness, but if I'd just rolled over and died on my stance it'd have looked even scummier imo. It initially started as errant policy discussion and I got way too caught up in my own opinion and kept pushing my own agenda while only kind of making reads in the process. After getting advice, I focused almost entirely on scumhunting like I was supposed to, posting with greater conviction and better quality, causing people, yourself included, to second guess my alignment. I could clearly see that I was looking very scummy and a drastic change was required if I had any chance of helping save town.
No problem about coming down on me, I've earned it. Hopefully this post helps alleviates some of your concerns about me.
Oh there's the NK. gg sciberbia.
By my count its 5 town, 3 scum remaining, meaning if we mislynch we lose unless we have blue roles to save us from scum or shoot scum. We would do well to keep that in mind as we proceed with the day's voting
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On July 05 2012 06:28 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Keirathi
With respect to my brief paragraph about Prom, that was more of an afterthought that someone might have brought up as a flaw in my reasoning against Umlaut. It was my take on their tone in their response to you and less about the content of their respective defenses. Ultimately, I find AmericanUmlaut to be the scummier looking player, based on my reads and his hostile tone through his defense, and that was the main point I wanted to convey without looking like I'd just dismissed the fact that your strongest read was Promethelax.
I can understand your point to an extent. But look at it from my perspective for a moment. One of my scummiest reads (you) comes and defends my absolute strongest read with a very dismissive argument without really addressing any of my points against him, and then proceeds to launch into an argument against one of my weakest reads (which does make some good points, by the way). If I make the assumption that you are mafia (not that I am, at this point, I'm just getting my point across), then you just attempted to change my focus off of my scum read and onto my non-scum read. Pretty easy to see why that comes across as scummy.
To be fair, I would probably be having these same arguments had you totally dismissed my Prom read and didn't mention it at all. I think your only real choice if your intent was to relieve some of my suspicion towards you would have been to lay out some arguments of your own against Prom, even if you later went own to lay out your case against Umlat and say that he was a stronger read for you.
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United States5162 Posts
Yea, after this last turn of events I really have no clue. I was pretty confident about Intact, but with him flipped town my whole read has turned to shit. I'm too inebriated after 4th of July to really go over anything now, but I'll take a loot tomorrow after work.
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Okay, clearly Keirathi thinks I am scum and a reasonable and well thought out response doesn't change his mind. I am not going to bother to defend myself against this since Kier won't listen to reason. If he is going to force everyone to mislynch me I want to get as many of my reads and the reasons for them into the thread so that when I flip green you townies will have more to work with, assuming that a medic protects someone tonight! Come on medic no one will look down on you for batting .333.
So, Keir, if you have anything that you want me to respond to ask me directly. If you just want to suggest that I am scum for no good reason I'm not going to bother to respond. We won't gain anything by me shitting up the thread with my defense so I'm going to give you solid reads instead, if you are town I hope you'll realize that I am too; if you aren't I don't really care what you think. If you really have read my filter so closely I would expect you to have realized that I am not red.
So first: my scum reads.
I am leaving Fencar out of this because he has been replaced but I still think he is probably scum and I hope that we all give his replacement a cold hard look.
Blind-Rawr, now Keir, is scum. I never really thought that Blindy was was defiantly scum, or more accurately I never looked at him because there was nothing to look at. His filter is...ten posts long after the start of the game until the point where he was replaced. He never gave us a single read and he could have either been new at town or at scum. He seemed scummy by virtue of his lurking and his lack of reads but he was never my scummiest read and I never followed through on looking into him really.
The thing is as soon as he was replaced we got an active player with grandiose reads covering everyone in the thread. He came in here and told us to ignore the scummy vibe everyone had on Blindy and to totally pay attention to his reads. His reads that put me on the top of a scum list. Now like the reast of you, barring scum and dt if we have one, I have a total of one mod-confirmed townie alive in this game. That townie is me and I feel like I have done a good job in that role to work for town and to find mafia, this is reflected in the town read that everyone had on me until Kierth came into the thread, until he showed up no one thought I was mafia and I don't believe that anyone does now. Every townie in this game has a town read on me because of my behaviour. Keir says it is because of how much I post. My filter is three pages long. Count 'em. You know who else has a three page filter? Statistically speaking you do. Myles is on three pages, so is Umlaut, and Hopeless is as well. JH has four pages and he died n1. Lurkers like Bob, Iamimperfection and even Anacletus have two page filters. So why does Kier attack me with this facitius reason? I can't think of any reason for town to distort the facts like this; I can think of a reason for scum to do it though, they want me dead.
There has to be a reason that scum killed Sciberbia and not me since we were the most active and the guys who were most well thought of as green. I assume everyone else had a town read on Sciberbia since I did. The only reason I can think of is that I had more of a filter and therefore more things that could be called scummy by scum players or that Sciberbia had better scum reads than me. I wasn't sure that Blindy was scum but Sciberbia sure thought so, you can tell by the way he voted for him:
On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BlinD-Rawr
Keir's one big post is a re-hash of everything that has happened in thread. He calls it his notes and there are a few observations thrown in but it feels like a a huge post that screams “look at me! Look at me! I am totally contributing!” without actually contributing. I'll link the post and you can read it over for yourself, it is so big that I skimmed it this morning when I had to run to work but it actually doesn't add as much as something of that length should.
In that long long post Kier calls Sciberbia 25% lilely to be scum. And when Sciberbia dies and flips town he says:
On July 05 2012 06:10 Keirathi wrote:
gg sciberbia. You were my best town read!
look at that attempt to gain towncred. Sciberbia was my best town read too but you'll notice that I acted on that before his death. Although I guess that is true based on what he said, 25% is the lowest chance of flipping scum he gives followed by two thirties and everyone else has a 50% chance or greater, talk about hedging your bets and leaving yourself an out.
So I think that Sciberbia was right, BlinD-Rawr was scum and so is kier.
My bet is that Hopeless1der is also scum. I have already made a case about him and here it is
On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:Between Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board? and Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on. something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account. He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things. The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all. So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU?? Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
On top of this he has continued to post in a scummy was and when I came under attack he soft defended me I think that he knows that I am green and knows that if I am lynched having defended me will look good. Once I flip green the town will probably lynch Kier (assuming we get our medic save at night, we may as well plan to succeed since planning for failure won't help us) and Keir has said that Hopeless is his next scummiest read after me. Hopeless has defended me. I believe that the scum plan is to get me mislynched in return for probably just straight winning and, if they don't win, losing one of their own and confirming a second as town in everyone's eyes. He also pushes Umlaut while Keir calls him town, it looks to me like scum setting up the perfect follow up mislynch after both Kier and I have flipped.
It is my firm belief that Hopeless is scum. His play seemed stupid but it changed drastically, he says he got coaching but I bet it was from marvellosity and not xsksc or artanis[xp], note his familiar use of marvellosity's name here:
On July 04 2012 04:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
By my count, sciberbia has hammered Intact, just over an hour remaining.
(See marv, I can spell his name just fine.)
I'd say that is from someone who has talked to 'marv' and not our coaches.
Hopeless1der is scum along with Kier.
Since we are in a situation where we will lose if we mislynch we lose (assuming there are no brilliant medic saves, which seem unlikely at this point) I want to talk about town reads too. It doesn't matter if scum know who we see as town, we all need to have each others' reads. Town only benefits from more information and I want to get as much of it out there as possible.
The person I want to talk about is Myles, since I have made a case against him in the past as have JH and others, I think he is a possible mislynch target.
Myles is, as far as I can tell, town. (look at me, spelling out that my opinions are my opinions, I wish I had more information that I could give you but I don't and I can't).
So, as you know if you have read this thread, I have stated in the past that Bob is scummy. I don't think so anymore, and not just because he was celebrating Canada day with me.
On July 04 2012 04:04 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:59 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
EBWOP: I should clarify what I mean when I say I'm very nervous about the lynch. Town play has not been good this game, which has left us with more scummy-looking players than there are actual scum. Assuming there's even one PBU in this game who knows how to play without looking like the second coming of GG.Nore, we're lynching into a population that includes way too many friendlies for comfort. Even making the best reads we can, we're taking a percentage gamble that I'm really not happy about. *Twitch* That was what I was saying before and I got bitched at for it....
Bob is actually right to bring this up, we jumped on him for the exact same thought process which was worded more poorly in his case. Bringing attention to this serves no purpose if he is scum. He wouldn't want to make us re-look at his mistakes. But he focuses on them to bring attention to another player. Admitting to his own mistakes and using them to make a point, albeit a simple one, is a townie behaviour. It is also his post
On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML.
onto which Keir bandwaggons. Though he totally fails to mention that he isn't posting something revolutionary. I think that if Kier is scum Bob is town and, since I am sure that Kier is scum I am also sure that Bob is town. Saying what Bob said above as scum would be dumb, I am one of the most active town players and have had 0 suspicion on me all game so why would he say this? Only if he were town who actually thought that I was scum, he is wrong but green as far as I can see.
To some up this post for those that don't have the patience to wade through it:
Kier=Scum
Hopeless=Scum
Bob=Town
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:Okay, clearly Keirathi thinks I am scum and a reasonable and well thought out response doesn't change his mind. I am not going to bother to defend myself against this since Kier won't listen to reason. If he is going to force everyone to mislynch me I want to get as many of my reads and the reasons for them into the thread so that when I flip green you townies will have more to work with, assuming that a medic protects someone tonight! Come on medic no one will look down on you for batting .333. So, Keir, if you have anything that you want me to respond to ask me directly. If you just want to suggest that I am scum for no good reason I'm not going to bother to respond. We won't gain anything by me shitting up the thread with my defense so I'm going to give you solid reads instead, if you are town I hope you'll realize that I am too; if you aren't I don't really care what you think. If you really have read my filter so closely I would expect you to have realized that I am not red. So first: my scum reads. I am leaving Fencar out of this because he has been replaced but I still think he is probably scum and I hope that we all give his replacement a cold hard look. Blind-Rawr, now Keir, is scum. I never really thought that Blindy was was defiantly scum, or more accurately I never looked at him because there was nothing to look at. His filter is...ten posts long after the start of the game until the point where he was replaced. He never gave us a single read and he could have either been new at town or at scum. He seemed scummy by virtue of his lurking and his lack of reads but he was never my scummiest read and I never followed through on looking into him really. The thing is as soon as he was replaced we got an active player with grandiose reads covering everyone in the thread. He came in here and told us to ignore the scummy vibe everyone had on Blindy and to totally pay attention to his reads. His reads that put me on the top of a scum list. Now like the reast of you, barring scum and dt if we have one, I have a total of one mod-confirmed townie alive in this game. That townie is me and I feel like I have done a good job in that role to work for town and to find mafia, this is reflected in the town read that everyone had on me until Kierth came into the thread, until he showed up no one thought I was mafia and I don't believe that anyone does now. Every townie in this game has a town read on me because of my behaviour. Keir says it is because of how much I post. My filter is three pages long. Count 'em. You know who else has a three page filter? Statistically speaking you do. Myles is on three pages, so is Umlaut, and Hopeless is as well. JH has four pages and he died n1. Lurkers like Bob, Iamimperfection and even Anacletus have two page filters. So why does Kier attack me with this facitius reason? I can't think of any reason for town to distort the facts like this; I can think of a reason for scum to do it though, they want me dead. There has to be a reason that scum killed Sciberbia and not me since we were the most active and the guys who were most well thought of as green. I assume everyone else had a town read on Sciberbia since I did. The only reason I can think of is that I had more of a filter and therefore more things that could be called scummy by scum players or that Sciberbia had better scum reads than me. I wasn't sure that Blindy was scum but Sciberbia sure thought so, you can tell by the way he voted for him: Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BlinD-Rawr Keir's one big post is a re-hash of everything that has happened in thread. He calls it his notes and there are a few observations thrown in but it feels like a a huge post that screams “look at me! Look at me! I am totally contributing!” without actually contributing. I'll link the post and you can read it over for yourself, it is so big that I skimmed it this morning when I had to run to work but it actually doesn't add as much as something of that length should. In that long long post Kier calls Sciberbia 25% lilely to be scum. And when Sciberbia dies and flips town he says: Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 06:10 Keirathi wrote:
gg sciberbia. You were my best town read! look at that attempt to gain towncred. Sciberbia was my best town read too but you'll notice that I acted on that before his death. Although I guess that is true based on what he said, 25% is the lowest chance of flipping scum he gives followed by two thirties and everyone else has a 50% chance or greater, talk about hedging your bets and leaving yourself an out. So I think that Sciberbia was right, BlinD-Rawr was scum and so is kier. My bet is that Hopeless1der is also scum. I have already made a case about him and here it is Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:Between On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board? and On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on. something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account. He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this: On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things. The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all. So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case. On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU?? Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter. On top of this he has continued to post in a scummy was and when I came under attack he soft defended me I think that he knows that I am green and knows that if I am lynched having defended me will look good. Once I flip green the town will probably lynch Kier (assuming we get our medic save at night, we may as well plan to succeed since planning for failure won't help us) and Keir has said that Hopeless is his next scummiest read after me. Hopeless has defended me. I believe that the scum plan is to get me mislynched in return for probably just straight winning and, if they don't win, losing one of their own and confirming a second as town in everyone's eyes. He also pushes Umlaut while Keir calls him town, it looks to me like scum setting up the perfect follow up mislynch after both Kier and I have flipped. It is my firm belief that Hopeless is scum. His play seemed stupid but it changed drastically, he says he got coaching but I bet it was from marvellosity and not xsksc or artanis[xp], note his familiar use of marvellosity's name here: Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
By my count, sciberbia has hammered Intact, just over an hour remaining.
(See marv, I can spell his name just fine.) I'd say that is from someone who has talked to 'marv' and not our coaches. Hopeless1der is scum along with Kier. Since we are in a situation where we will lose if we mislynch we lose (assuming there are no brilliant medic saves, which seem unlikely at this point) I want to talk about town reads too. It doesn't matter if scum know who we see as town, we all need to have each others' reads. Town only benefits from more information and I want to get as much of it out there as possible. The person I want to talk about is Myles, since I have made a case against him in the past as have JH and others, I think he is a possible mislynch target. Myles is, as far as I can tell, town. (look at me, spelling out that my opinions are my opinions, I wish I had more information that I could give you but I don't and I can't). So, as you know if you have read this thread, I have stated in the past that Bob is scummy. I don't think so anymore, and not just because he was celebrating Canada day with me. Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:04 BobTheLob wrote:On July 04 2012 03:59 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
EBWOP: I should clarify what I mean when I say I'm very nervous about the lynch. Town play has not been good this game, which has left us with more scummy-looking players than there are actual scum. Assuming there's even one PBU in this game who knows how to play without looking like the second coming of GG.Nore, we're lynching into a population that includes way too many friendlies for comfort. Even making the best reads we can, we're taking a percentage gamble that I'm really not happy about. *Twitch* That was what I was saying before and I got bitched at for it.... Bob is actually right to bring this up, we jumped on him for the exact same thought process which was worded more poorly in his case. Bringing attention to this serves no purpose if he is scum. He wouldn't want to make us re-look at his mistakes. But he focuses on them to bring attention to another player. Admitting to his own mistakes and using them to make a point, albeit a simple one, is a townie behaviour. It is also his post Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML. onto which Keir bandwaggons. Though he totally fails to mention that he isn't posting something revolutionary. I think that if Kier is scum Bob is town and, since I am sure that Kier is scum I am also sure that Bob is town. Saying what Bob said above as scum would be dumb, I am one of the most active town players and have had 0 suspicion on me all game so why would he say this? Only if he were town who actually thought that I was scum, he is wrong but green as far as I can see. To some up this post for those that don't have the patience to wade through it: Kier=Scum Hopeless=Scum Bob=Town
While I thank you for the vote of confidence I still think that you are iffy. Blind/Kier is almost impossible to judge right now, and Hopeless is IMO scum. For now I'll give you the BOTD but I'm still paying attention and trying to rationalize you being scum to the others.
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On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:Okay, clearly Keirathi thinks I am scum and a reasonable and well thought out response doesn't change his mind. I am not going to bother to defend myself against this since Kier won't listen to reason. If he is going to force everyone to mislynch me I want to get as many of my reads and the reasons for them into the thread so that when I flip green you townies will have more to work with, assuming that a medic protects someone tonight! Come on medic no one will look down on you for batting .333. So, Keir, if you have anything that you want me to respond to ask me directly. If you just want to suggest that I am scum for no good reason I'm not going to bother to respond. We won't gain anything by me shitting up the thread with my defense so I'm going to give you solid reads instead, if you are town I hope you'll realize that I am too; if you aren't I don't really care what you think. If you really have read my filter so closely I would expect you to have realized that I am not red. So first: my scum reads. I am leaving Fencar out of this because he has been replaced but I still think he is probably scum and I hope that we all give his replacement a cold hard look. Blind-Rawr, now Keir, is scum. I never really thought that Blindy was was defiantly scum, or more accurately I never looked at him because there was nothing to look at. His filter is...ten posts long after the start of the game until the point where he was replaced. He never gave us a single read and he could have either been new at town or at scum. He seemed scummy by virtue of his lurking and his lack of reads but he was never my scummiest read and I never followed through on looking into him really. The thing is as soon as he was replaced we got an active player with grandiose reads covering everyone in the thread. He came in here and told us to ignore the scummy vibe everyone had on Blindy and to totally pay attention to his reads. His reads that put me on the top of a scum list. Now like the reast of you, barring scum and dt if we have one, I have a total of one mod-confirmed townie alive in this game. That townie is me and I feel like I have done a good job in that role to work for town and to find mafia, this is reflected in the town read that everyone had on me until Kierth came into the thread, until he showed up no one thought I was mafia and I don't believe that anyone does now. Every townie in this game has a town read on me because of my behaviour. Keir says it is because of how much I post. My filter is three pages long. Count 'em. You know who else has a three page filter? Statistically speaking you do. Myles is on three pages, so is Umlaut, and Hopeless is as well. JH has four pages and he died n1. Lurkers like Bob, Iamimperfection and even Anacletus have two page filters. So why does Kier attack me with this facitius reason? I can't think of any reason for town to distort the facts like this; I can think of a reason for scum to do it though, they want me dead. There has to be a reason that scum killed Sciberbia and not me since we were the most active and the guys who were most well thought of as green. I assume everyone else had a town read on Sciberbia since I did. The only reason I can think of is that I had more of a filter and therefore more things that could be called scummy by scum players or that Sciberbia had better scum reads than me. I wasn't sure that Blindy was scum but Sciberbia sure thought so, you can tell by the way he voted for him: Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BlinD-Rawr Keir's one big post is a re-hash of everything that has happened in thread. He calls it his notes and there are a few observations thrown in but it feels like a a huge post that screams “look at me! Look at me! I am totally contributing!” without actually contributing. I'll link the post and you can read it over for yourself, it is so big that I skimmed it this morning when I had to run to work but it actually doesn't add as much as something of that length should. In that long long post Kier calls Sciberbia 25% lilely to be scum. And when Sciberbia dies and flips town he says: Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 06:10 Keirathi wrote:
gg sciberbia. You were my best town read! look at that attempt to gain towncred. Sciberbia was my best town read too but you'll notice that I acted on that before his death. Although I guess that is true based on what he said, 25% is the lowest chance of flipping scum he gives followed by two thirties and everyone else has a 50% chance or greater, talk about hedging your bets and leaving yourself an out. So I think that Sciberbia was right, BlinD-Rawr was scum and so is kier. My bet is that Hopeless1der is also scum. I have already made a case about him and here it is Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:Between On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board? and On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on. something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account. He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this: On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things. The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all. So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case. On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU?? Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter. On top of this he has continued to post in a scummy was and when I came under attack he soft defended me I think that he knows that I am green and knows that if I am lynched having defended me will look good. Once I flip green the town will probably lynch Kier (assuming we get our medic save at night, we may as well plan to succeed since planning for failure won't help us) and Keir has said that Hopeless is his next scummiest read after me. Hopeless has defended me. I believe that the scum plan is to get me mislynched in return for probably just straight winning and, if they don't win, losing one of their own and confirming a second as town in everyone's eyes. He also pushes Umlaut while Keir calls him town, it looks to me like scum setting up the perfect follow up mislynch after both Kier and I have flipped. It is my firm belief that Hopeless is scum. His play seemed stupid but it changed drastically, he says he got coaching but I bet it was from marvellosity and not xsksc or artanis[xp], note his familiar use of marvellosity's name here: Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
By my count, sciberbia has hammered Intact, just over an hour remaining.
(See marv, I can spell his name just fine.) I'd say that is from someone who has talked to 'marv' and not our coaches. Hopeless1der is scum along with Kier. Since we are in a situation where we will lose if we mislynch we lose (assuming there are no brilliant medic saves, which seem unlikely at this point) I want to talk about town reads too. It doesn't matter if scum know who we see as town, we all need to have each others' reads. Town only benefits from more information and I want to get as much of it out there as possible. The person I want to talk about is Myles, since I have made a case against him in the past as have JH and others, I think he is a possible mislynch target. Myles is, as far as I can tell, town. (look at me, spelling out that my opinions are my opinions, I wish I had more information that I could give you but I don't and I can't). So, as you know if you have read this thread, I have stated in the past that Bob is scummy. I don't think so anymore, and not just because he was celebrating Canada day with me. Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:04 BobTheLob wrote:On July 04 2012 03:59 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
EBWOP: I should clarify what I mean when I say I'm very nervous about the lynch. Town play has not been good this game, which has left us with more scummy-looking players than there are actual scum. Assuming there's even one PBU in this game who knows how to play without looking like the second coming of GG.Nore, we're lynching into a population that includes way too many friendlies for comfort. Even making the best reads we can, we're taking a percentage gamble that I'm really not happy about. *Twitch* That was what I was saying before and I got bitched at for it.... Bob is actually right to bring this up, we jumped on him for the exact same thought process which was worded more poorly in his case. Bringing attention to this serves no purpose if he is scum. He wouldn't want to make us re-look at his mistakes. But he focuses on them to bring attention to another player. Admitting to his own mistakes and using them to make a point, albeit a simple one, is a townie behaviour. It is also his post Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML. onto which Keir bandwaggons. Though he totally fails to mention that he isn't posting something revolutionary. I think that if Kier is scum Bob is town and, since I am sure that Kier is scum I am also sure that Bob is town. Saying what Bob said above as scum would be dumb, I am one of the most active town players and have had 0 suspicion on me all game so why would he say this? Only if he were town who actually thought that I was scum, he is wrong but green as far as I can see. To some up this post for those that don't have the patience to wade through it: Kier=Scum Hopeless=Scum Bob=Town
Prom I'm sorry you still feel that I'm scum. I thought I'd really improved my posting since Jingle was NK'd. My soft defence of you was just a pre-emptive defence on my own logic in my read against AmericanUmlaut. Unfortunately for me, I'm leaving shortly for the night, so I'll try to get all my reads out on the table tomorrow.
Also for the response to marvellosity, he'd posted this shortly before that comment.
On July 04 2012 02:40 marvellosity wrote:
Why does no-one ever spell sciberbia's name correctly? :<
Sorry for having a sense of humor about it. Yes it was a no content post, but it was so close to the deadline and I didn't really have anything new to add to the discussions, just passing time until the lynch.
In the meantime, is it worth No-Lynching today? We get another day to look for scum and it buys time to get a better read on miltonkram and keirathi. It also gives our potential blue(s) another day to get information. Right now I'm inclined to believe its our best course of action as town is guaranteed to not lose for one more day.
##VOTE: No Lynch
Townie remaining count on the front page should be 5 instead of 6.
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Zzzz. I really don't want to start an OMGUS shouting match. That was not my intentions with my notes. I want everyone to discuss my points on everyone else, no tunnel the points I made against them.
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
Okay, clearly Keirathi thinks I am scum and a reasonable and well thought out response doesn't change his mind. I am not going to bother to defend myself against this since Kier won't listen to reason.
Your post was well thought out, but I disagree with well reasoned. You didn't address a lot of points I had against you, and didn't address any of my counter-points after I responded to you.
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
Now like the reast of you, barring scum and dt if we have one, I have a total of one mod-confirmed townie alive in this game.That townie is me and I feel like I have done a good job in that role to work for town and to find mafia, this is reflected in the town read that everyone had on me until Kierth came into the thread
That's the problem. You are NOT mod-confirmed townie. At best, you express occasional pro-town sentiments. At worst, you fling the mod-confirmed townie statement around like you're trying to convince everyone that you are.
I didn't come into the thread and read the end first, then go back to the beginning and try to fit everyone's perceptions into my reads. I started from the beginning, found things about you were scummy, then you started trying to blend in.
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
Keir says it is because of how much I post. My filter is three pages long. Count 'em. You know who else has a three page filter? Statistically speaking you do. Myles is on three pages, so is Umlaut, and Hopeless is as well. JH has four pages and he died n1. Lurkers like Bob, Iamimperfection and even Anacletus have two page filters. So why does Kier attack me with this facitius reason?
Sure, I'll play.
Myles - 47
Umlaut - 46
Bob - 25
Perfection - 26
Prom - 49
Hopeless - 49
That statistically puts you at the top of the activity charts. I never claimed you were so much more active than everyone else, I just said you've gotten a get-out-of-jail-free card because you've been keeping the thread moving.
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
Keir's one big post is a re-hash of everything that has happened in thread. He calls it his notes and there are a few observations thrown in but it feels like a a huge post that screams “look at me! Look at me! I am totally contributing!” without actually contributing. I'll link the post and you can read it over for yourself, it is so big that I skimmed it this morning when I had to run to work but it actually doesn't add as much as something of that length should.
You are right to an extent. My notes were basically just a summary of the scummy things that have happened in the thread, with notes/thoughts thrown in where appropriate.
My goal was to spark discussion on everyone, not keep channeling the first person someone makes a case against. That hasn't worked out for town very well.
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
By my count, sciberbia has hammered Intact, just over an hour remaining.
(See marv, I can spell his name just fine.) I'd say that is from someone who has talked to 'marv' and not our coaches.
I present to you:
On July 04 2012 02:40 marvellosity wrote:
Why does no-one ever spell sciberbia's name correctly? :<
Do you even read the thread? Filters are good and all, but you miss context if that's all you look at.
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
Keir has said that Hopeless is his next scummiest read after me.
No, I said Hopeless was my third scummiest read. I said Myles was my second scummiest read.
If I go with my gut about you being scum, then your defense of Myles without actually making any arguments for him almost certainly makes him scum too.
Now for my conclusion: If I was mafia, why would it make sense for my to NK sciberbia last night AND during the next day argue against the person who has the most townie support? It would make way, way more sense for me to kill you, then try to push a case on Bob or Myles (whom you said are town) who have had people making some scummy reads on them throughout the game. You basically said as much in the last line of your defense of Bob.
Now that that's out of the way, I hope more people will come in and give some of their views. I highly encourage you to take a hard look at EVERYONE. Not just the people you think are scum. Make a small write-up with little pros and cons of everyone. Just, for the love of god, don't be mute.
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EBWOP: I missed a point again
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
25% is the lowest chance of flipping scum he gives followed by two thirties and everyone else has a 50% chance or greater, talk about hedging your bets and leaving yourself an out.
I had 3 people over 50, and 4 people under 50 (with a hard no-read on Fencar/Milton).
And you wanted to call me out for distorting facts.
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On July 05 2012 13:11 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: I missed a point again Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
25% is the lowest chance of flipping scum he gives followed by two thirties and everyone else has a 50% chance or greater, talk about hedging your bets and leaving yourself an out.
I had 3 people over 50, and 4 people under 50 (with a hard no-read on Fencar/Milton). And you wanted to call me out for distorting facts.
Ah, I'm sorry. I must have missed one on my speed read. My fiance was getting mad at me for wasting time on Mafia when I could be with her. She is asleep now though so I'll try to reply to your post since you clearly want to continue this.
I didn't want to start an OMGUS war either, you understand why I'm sure, us going after each other doesn't serve any purpose for town.
Don't worry though, I won't be silent. It is not in my nature to be silent while you throw out false accusations at me.
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On July 05 2012 13:17 Promethelax wrote:
I'll try to reply to your post since you clearly want to continue this.
That's not what I want at all. You were right, town doesn't gain much by the two of us arguing back and forth.
I will fully admit that I might be wrong about you. That's why I'm asking for other people to come in with their own thoughts about you, and about everyone else.
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Okay, you want to refrain from defending ourselves and have us look at everyone but ourselves? Fine, as I've already stated I don't really feel that it is useful for me to defend myself against baseless accusations. Instead I will look at your reads on other people/
There are some things in your cases that are based on things which I can see could seem scummy. You need to lay off with telling me that I am not mod-confirmed. I get it I'm not mod-confirmed to you, what I am saying is that I am mod-confirmed to me. I got a role pm, it told me that I'm townie, it came from a mod.
So, since you want me to ignore your case on me I'll look at your other reads. I've already posted about Bob, You, Fencar and Hopeless. That leaves Myles, iamimperfection, AmericanUlaut and me.
AmericanUmlaut: I wasn't sure on him for a while but he started really contributing and making a difference in the thread. As you mentioned I wanted a dt to check him early because he was pretty null to me, the way I would play dt is to check the guys I don't have good reads on thus gaining the most information possible. His defense against your post seems really tight, maybe I am biased because I know that your attack against me is baseless so I feel that your attack against him is too. His points on your case about his vote switching to ensure lynch and about how Intact was likely to be a red power role actually point more towards you being scum. Your attacks require a clear misunderstanding of what people say to have any traction. So Umlaut looks townie to me. I didn't chose to write about him in my first post because I felt I had already made my position clear on him and I was trying to get my reads into the thread to make sure they were heard.
Myles: I had thought he was scum early on, his posting improved and he became null for me, I was planning on talking about him earlier but die to time constraints had to leave some people out of my reads. My opinion of him has changed a little because of his reaction to the night kill. Since the night kill he has only posted in frustration which, in my opinion, would be a really easy thing to fake as scum. He hasn't given us anything and he hasn't participated in discussions. Because of his refusal to be a part of town when we need it most he has slipped back into the scum column. He posted four times in four hours and added no things to the thread.
Iamimprefection: is too minimalistic with his reads. His case on Bob is the only piece of good detective work he does. I put him on the very slightly scummy side of things but he is mostly null to me. I think he is probably just a bad town player because I have redder reads on other people but if I am wrong on Kierthi, Hopeless and Myles (with Fencar totally able to take the place of Myles as soon as he exists again.) than iamimperfection might fit in here somewhere.
Me: I'm town aligned.
There you have the brief write up of all my reads. I'm probably going to bed now. I'll be awake tomorrow morning to post once more before I'm off to work for a nice easy nine hour day.
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On July 05 2012 13:43 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 13:17 Promethelax wrote:
I'll try to reply to your post since you clearly want to continue this.
That's not what I want at all. You were right, town doesn't gain much by the two of us arguing back and forth. I will fully admit that I might be wrong about you. That's why I'm asking for other people to come in with their own thoughts about you, and about everyone else.
So work with me, reply to my cases on literally everyone in the thread. You posted your notes and I posted my reads. If you really are a deluded townie (hell, anything is possible) we're on the same team. Let's work together put our arms around each others' shoulders and smile for the camera after we win this thing. How about it?
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On July 05 2012 13:46 Promethelax wrote:
how Intact was likely to be a red power role actually point more towards you being scum. Your attacks require a clear misunderstanding of what people say to have any traction.
I freely admitted that I did misunderstand him. My initial read through, for some reason I thought be meant blue roles, rather than red power roles. Once he clarified what he meant, I agreed with the sentiment.
As far as the rest of your position on Umlaut, I mostly agree. However, I wasn't attacking him (in fact, his reply to my notes post felt a bit too aggressive, when I had basically given him my seal of approval), and my points on him (and you) aren't baseless. My conclusions might be wrong, but I didn't just make shit up.
On July 05 2012 13:46 Promethelax wrote:
Myles: I had thought he was scum early on, his posting improved and he became null for me, I was planning on talking about him earlier but die to time constraints had to leave some people out of my reads. My opinion of him has changed a little because of his reaction to the night kill. Since the night kill he has only posted in frustration which, in my opinion, would be a really easy thing to fake as scum. He hasn't given us anything and he hasn't participated in discussions. Because of his refusal to be a part of town when we need it most he has slipped back into the scum column. He posted four times in four hours and added no things to the thread.
Huh? Just TWO posts ago you said you believed Myles to be town. + Show Spoiler +Myles is, as far as I can tell, town. (look at me, spelling out that my opinions are my opinions, I wish I had more information that I could give you but I don't and I can't).
And re iamperfection: yea, I mostly agree that he hasn't been active enough to really make a solid read on. Second fewest posts of all the active players, and who I found the least amount of actual useful information about (ie, i basically only have 3 lines of stuff about him). He's pretty null to me as well, but he really has to come out and  O* something. This is crunch time, we need everyone participating.
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On July 05 2012 14:19 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 13:46 Promethelax wrote:
how Intact was likely to be a red power role actually point more towards you being scum. Your attacks require a clear misunderstanding of what people say to have any traction.
I freely admitted that I did misunderstand him. My initial read through, for some reason I thought be meant blue roles, rather than red power roles. Once he clarified what he meant, I agreed with the sentiment. As far as the rest of your position on Umlaut, I mostly agree. However, I wasn't attacking him (in fact, his reply to my notes post felt a bit too aggressive, when I had basically given him my seal of approval), and my points on him (and you) aren't baseless. My conclusions might be wrong, but I didn't just make shit up. Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 13:46 Promethelax wrote:
Myles: I had thought he was scum early on, his posting improved and he became null for me, I was planning on talking about him earlier but die to time constraints had to leave some people out of my reads. My opinion of him has changed a little because of his reaction to the night kill. Since the night kill he has only posted in frustration which, in my opinion, would be a really easy thing to fake as scum. He hasn't given us anything and he hasn't participated in discussions. Because of his refusal to be a part of town when we need it most he has slipped back into the scum column. He posted four times in four hours and added no things to the thread.
Huh? Just TWO posts ago you said you believed Myles to be town. + Show Spoiler +Myles is, as far as I can tell, town. (look at me, spelling out that my opinions are my opinions, I wish I had more information that I could give you but I don't and I can't). Now you think he has a good chance of being scum again? And re iamperfection: yea, I mostly agree that he hasn't been active enough to really make a solid read on. Second fewest posts of all the active players, and who I found the least amount of actual useful information about (ie, i basically only have 3 lines of stuff about him). He's pretty null to me as well, but he really has to come out and O* something. This is crunch time, we need everyone participating.
I looked at Myles again, his post lynch posts are trash. Too much frusration no content. I'm trying to look at people with open eyes. Even though you are wrong about your accusation you reminded me I had to look at the thread as a whole again.
When you call out behaviours as scummy that is an attack, even if you don't see it.
I'm sorry I missed you taking back your accusation over that blue/red power role thing.
Hopefully imaimperfection will add more to the thread. We'll see.
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On July 05 2012 12:25 Hopeless1der wrote:
In the meantime, is it worth No-Lynching today? We get another day to look for scum and it buys time to get a better read on miltonkram and keirathi. It also gives our potential blue(s) another day to get information. Right now I'm inclined to believe its our best course of action as town is guaranteed to not lose for one more day.
##VOTE: No Lynch
Sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring your proposal. I am of the opinion that no-lynch is a good idea for town in this situation, but in my last game (XVIII), I proposed the same plan in the same situation (5 townies, 3 scum) and spent a lot of time vehemently defending it. In the end, I got shot down (and it wouldn't have worked anyways because plurality system instead of majority in that game, which I didn't understand) repeatedly (although in hindsight, the people arguing against me were all scum), and our doc ended up getting lynched and we lost the game.
If other people are on-board, I'm all for it. I personally think it benefits town, but I won't spend time arguing for it because we just waste time that could be used discussing candidates instead.
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@hopeless1der: Fix'd. Front page has proper number of townies/mafia.
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On July 05 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 12:25 Hopeless1der wrote:
In the meantime, is it worth No-Lynching today? We get another day to look for scum and it buys time to get a better read on miltonkram and keirathi. It also gives our potential blue(s) another day to get information. Right now I'm inclined to believe its our best course of action as town is guaranteed to not lose for one more day.
##VOTE: No Lynch
Sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring your proposal. I am of the opinion that no-lynch is a good idea for town in this situation, but in my last game (XVIII), I proposed the same plan in the same situation (5 townies, 3 scum) and spent a lot of time vehemently defending it. In the end, I got shot down (and it wouldn't have worked anyways because plurality system instead of majority in that game, which I didn't understand) repeatedly (although in hindsight, the people arguing against me were all scum), and our doc ended up getting lynched and we lost the game. If other people are on-board, I'm all for it. I personally think it benefits town, but I won't spend time arguing for it because we just waste time that could be used discussing candidates instead.
In a majority lynch game where there is not a strong lynch candidate in mylo no lynch is a good choice, if people won't go for one of my strong reads and instead want to lynch someone I have a town read on I will be willing to vote for a no-lynch. My preference would be to lynch scum (obviously) but we cannot have a mislynch as it will cost us the game.
There is no real need to discuss the no lynch now as it will get in that way of making cases is we all argue about how good it is or isn't for town but I wanted to put my voice in on this. Everyone should think about it and come up with their own conclusion on if it helps us, I'm sure that there will be some people who think it is an awful idea but it is still something that everyone should have an opinion on.
If we get near the deadline and there is not a satisfactory lynch candidate we should bring this back up and talk about it at that point.
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On July 05 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 12:25 Hopeless1der wrote:
In the meantime, is it worth No-Lynching today? We get another day to look for scum and it buys time to get a better read on miltonkram and keirathi. It also gives our potential blue(s) another day to get information. Right now I'm inclined to believe its our best course of action as town is guaranteed to not lose for one more day.
##VOTE: No Lynch
Sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring your proposal. I am of the opinion that no-lynch is a good idea for town in this situation, but in my last game (XVIII), I proposed the same plan in the same situation (5 townies, 3 scum) and spent a lot of time vehemently defending it. In the end, I got shot down (and it wouldn't have worked anyways because plurality system instead of majority in that game, which I didn't understand) repeatedly (although in hindsight, the people arguing against me were all scum), and our doc ended up getting lynched and we lost the game. If other people are on-board, I'm all for it. I personally think it benefits town, but I won't spend time arguing for it because we just waste time that could be used discussing candidates instead.
Not to start an argument but i dont see how a no lynch benefits us in any way. Unless we get lucky at nigh wouldnt the scum just have to convince 1 person to join their cause and its gg? To me that seems like a huge gamble for very little benefit. If we are going to win this game we need to lynch today and we need to lynch preferbally a scum with a role. I will spend most of my morning reading through the thread again and will report back later this afternoon or tonight.
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ebwop: Also how did the no lynch benefit the scum in your previous game?
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Just so there's no confusion, you cannot vote for a no lynch. The no lynch can still happen by voting in such a way that no one has the majority (5 votes at the moment), but you have to cast a vote for someone still in the game.
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Okay so we all want our reads on the table. I'm going through each player's filter and getting a feel for them based on the game so far. This won't be incredibly detailed but if you see something you'd like me to specifically expand on I'll look into it further:
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Anacletus - Lynched
- Myles - Leaning towards town at present
- Myles has been keeping up it seems with just enough content to avoid too much suspicion. However, he hasn't really committed to any strong reads. His longest post is in defense of himself. Both times he's voted, it had the feel of "well the rest of town thinks its a good idea"
+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 03:53 Myles wrote:
OK, considering we have just over 3 hours left, I'm going to cast my vote for Anacletus. After barely contributing, then barely defending himself, he's pretty much disappeared completely. While not the most damning of evidence, it certainly seems scummy to me since a good way to draw attention from yourself is to lay low and let other people take heat - you know, out of sight out of mind.
Fencer is suspicious, but after looking through all his posts some more, seems more newbish than scum. I'm certainly not going to turn a blind eye, but I'll give him the BotD for now.
And despite other people not seeming to care, BobTheLob is quite suspicious to me. Lurker extraordinaire and his last post doesn't elicit much confidence imo.
##Vote Analectus On July 04 2012 04:41 Myles wrote:
I'm going to pull the trigger and vote intact. He seems like the best choice given the information we have. As has been discussed, there's too many inconsistencies with the bandwagon, reads, and ability to post.
- He also hasn't posted a goddamn thing of merit since before Intact got lynched. Says he will "take a look tomorrow" (today). His excuse makes sense, but the timing is very unfortunate for us.
- His posts consistently identify suspicious behavior but lack the confidence to get a meaningful case going.
- His lack of conviction and detailed contributions make him suspicious to me, but he's never had to actively pursue a case on someone because we've had people doing it for us and never really needed his input to push a case. We've also not had any luck in finding scum, so I can't say if his posting would change if we were to start a case on legitimate scum. For now, he appears townie that's just keeping up with the thread and supporting the cases he thinks are of merit.
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NrGmonk > sciberbia - NK'd
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JingleHell - NK'd
- AmericanÜmlaut - Scum
I've posted my reads on Umlaut already - Scum
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Intact - Lynched
- BobTheLob - Leaning Town
- Bob's been pretty lurky, and when called out on it, he made an "everyone could be scum post". Looks like desperate townie to me, just trying to contribute something, anything he can. Scum, I feel, would have made more of an effort to not look wishy-washy.
- The deflated behavior going into today feels consistent with his posting of being a newbie and getting ragged on throughout the game
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BLinD-RawR > Keirathi - Probably Scum
- I posted a read on BLiND-RawR before he was replaced. I was not impressed with his response to the case I presented on him and it reinforced my idea that he was scum
- Keirathi's method of taking notes was fine to start with, as he gets to build his own reads from scratch, but he insists that his goal is get other people talking and really only give us a scum number. He has a list of scummy behavior, which he admits is exactly what it is, but he hasn't gone back to make connections that are absolutely crucial at this stage to pinpoint the scum. Anyone could be scum as far as his list is concerned.
- Promethelax was far and away his scummiest read, sciberbia as his towniest read was shot. There is definately a benefit to playing things out this way, as you potentialy get huge town cred and get to paint a massive target on Promethelax. One of them is almost certainly scum. I think Promethelax is our strongest town read remaining, and by planting the seed of doubt going into MYLO, the scum only need to pull one of the town over to their way of thinking to keep themselves alive (Either by mislynch tomorrow or no-lynch today).
- iamperfection - Leaning towards Scum
- Kind of lurky, similar to Myles in terms of amount of content and commitment to his reads. However, did start a case against bobthelob. Bob never seemed like he was at risk of getting into hot water, so kind of a throwaway vote.
- Hasn't contributed much to discussing the reasoning behind NK's or building cases in general.
- Willing to spend time discussing merits of No-Lynch, but has lurked otherwise. - Suspicious
- Comparing with Myles I get a very similar read, but perfection has less posts with almost as much content. This feels like he's spending a lot more time constructing his posts, which is a scum quality to me
- Promethelax - Still Town
- Strong posts, plenty of reads on all suspicious behavior. Explains his actions and shows minimal contradictions.
- Any "contradictory" behavior seems related to players that were replaced
- He's actively tried pushing cases, but reconsiders when new evidence or scummier behavior becomes apparent. Doesn't tunnel into someone.
- Responds to most cases and gives his input, fleshing out the cases further and adding his own conclusions.
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Fencer710 > Miltonkram - NULL
- I don't know...I really don't =\
- If Milton continues to lurk, he's scum in my book. Lurking replacement is completely unacceptable
- Hopeless1der
- I'm town. What else am I supposed to tell you?
TL;DR: Umlaut, Keirathi, Perfection
In response to Perfection:
The No-Lynch itself didn't help scum, it was the long drawn out debate about it.
My basic reasoning in No-Lynch is we're guaranteed at least one more day. If we mislynch tonight, we can lose. I feel the greater risk is in trying to lynch scum today. The flip from the NK will color our reads and hopefully make it easier to target scum when we absolutely must lynch or lose the game.
Regardless, let's not discuss it further until we're closer to the deadline. We need to make all our reads so that we're as prepared as we can be for the next Day's voting as well.
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On July 06 2012 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote:Okay so we all want our reads on the table. I'm going through each player's filter and getting a feel for them based on the game so far. This won't be incredibly detailed but if you see something you'd like me to specifically expand on I'll look into it further: - Myles - Leaning towards town at present
- Myles has been keeping up it seems with just enough content to avoid too much suspicion. However, he hasn't really committed to any strong reads. His longest post is in defense of himself. Both times he's voted, it had the feel of "well the rest of town thinks its a good idea"
+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 03:53 Myles wrote:
OK, considering we have just over 3 hours left, I'm going to cast my vote for Anacletus. After barely contributing, then barely defending himself, he's pretty much disappeared completely. While not the most damning of evidence, it certainly seems scummy to me since a good way to draw attention from yourself is to lay low and let other people take heat - you know, out of sight out of mind.
Fencer is suspicious, but after looking through all his posts some more, seems more newbish than scum. I'm certainly not going to turn a blind eye, but I'll give him the BotD for now.
And despite other people not seeming to care, BobTheLob is quite suspicious to me. Lurker extraordinaire and his last post doesn't elicit much confidence imo.
##Vote Analectus On July 04 2012 04:41 Myles wrote:
I'm going to pull the trigger and vote intact. He seems like the best choice given the information we have. As has been discussed, there's too many inconsistencies with the bandwagon, reads, and ability to post.
- He also hasn't posted a goddamn thing of merit since before Intact got lynched. Says he will "take a look tomorrow" (today). His excuse makes sense, but the timing is very unfortunate for us.
- His posts consistently identify suspicious behavior but lack the confidence to get a meaningful case going.
- His lack of conviction and detailed contributions make him suspicious to me, but he's never had to actively pursue a case on someone because we've had people doing it for us and never really needed his input to push a case. We've also not had any luck in finding scum, so I can't say if his posting would change if we were to start a case on legitimate scum. For now, he appears townie that's just keeping up with the thread and supporting the cases he thinks are of merit.
Yea. He's been on the vote for both townies (hammer vote day1, almost hammer vote day 2), which is bad enough in itself, but he really hasn't said a ton of useful things. Or, rather, has not committed to the few useful things he has said.
And his outburst at the start of n2 was pretty...odd, to say the least. If you don't want townies to die, make cases against the people you think are scum, dont just ride the bandwagon with everyone else.
Despite that, and despite him being my second highest read coming into today, I'm giving him the BOTD right now.
On July 06 2012 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote:- BobTheLob - Leaning Town
- Bob's been pretty lurky, and when called out on it, he made an "everyone could be scum post". Looks like desperate townie to me, just trying to contribute something, anything he can. Scum, I feel, would have made more of an effort to not look wishy-washy.
- The deflated behavior going into today feels consistent with his posting of being a newbie and getting ragged on throughout the game
I'm not quite as sold. If we assume at least one (and probably 2) of the more active posters are scum, then out of the lurkers, he has one of the better cases imo.
He lurks so hard, but he has conveniently showed up 2 times exactly when someone posts a big case against him. He, like Myles and Promethelax, was on both of the bandwagon townie kills.
He accused you, and later Prom, but didn't make cases against either one of you, just expecting other people to make them.
He wouldn't be the first person I would vote, but depending how long he lasts, I am definitely keeping an eye on him.
On July 06 2012 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote:-
BLinD-RawR > Keirathi - Probably Scum
- I posted a read on BLiND-RawR before he was replaced. I was not impressed with his response to the case I presented on him and it reinforced my idea that he was scum
- Keirathi's method of taking notes was fine to start with, as he gets to build his own reads from scratch, but he insists that his goal is get other people talking and really only give us a scum number. He has a list of scummy behavior, which he admits is exactly what it is, but he hasn't gone back to make connections that are absolutely crucial at this stage to pinpoint the scum. Anyone could be scum as far as his list is concerned.
- Promethelax was far and away his scummiest read, sciberbia as his towniest read was shot. There is definately a benefit to playing things out this way, as you potentialy get huge town cred and get to paint a massive target on Promethelax. One of them is almost certainly scum. I think Promethelax is our strongest town read remaining, and by planting the seed of doubt going into MYLO, the scum only need to pull one of the town over to their way of thinking to keep themselves alive (Either by mislynch tomorrow or no-lynch today).
Point 1: I can't really say much about that. I obviously had no control over what he did or said. He did have some things that could be misconstrued as scummy, but I can only believe it was because he was a newbie and didn't know how to play.
Point 2:
Myles - Leaning towards town at present
AmericanÜmlaut - Scum
BobTheLob - Leaning Town
BLinD-RawR > Keirathi - Probably Scum
iamperfection - Leaning towards Scum
Promethelax - Still Town
Fencer710 > Miltonkram - NULL
You complain about me saying anyone could be scum, but you have a list that basically says that anyone could be scum at the same time. Your words for each person are the exact same thing as my numbers.
Also + Show Spoiler +Scum, I feel, would have made more of an effort to not look wishy-washy.
Point 3: Lets make the assumption that I am scum, and I want to win. All I need to do is get a NK last night, and then get a lynch today (or tomorrow if theres a no-lynch). Why in the HELL would I pick Prom as my target to go after for that 1 lynch? It makes ZERO FUCKING SENSE. There are so much easier cases to make, and NK'ing Prom would have taken out one of the active people trying to steer cases towards people. And you can't say that NK'ing him would have pointed fingers at me, because he literally had NEVER made a case against BlinD. At worst he said he would look into BlinD after Intact died.
On July 06 2012 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote: - iamperfection - Leaning towards Scum
- Kind of lurky, similar to Myles in terms of amount of content and commitment to his reads. However, did start a case against bobthelob. Bob never seemed like he was at risk of getting into hot water, so kind of a throwaway vote.
- Hasn't contributed much to discussing the reasoning behind NK's or building cases in general.
- Willing to spend time discussing merits of No-Lynch, but has lurked otherwise. - Suspicious
- Comparing with Myles I get a very similar read, but perfection has less posts with almost as much content. This feels like he's spending a lot more time constructing his posts, which is a scum quality to me
Interesting. I haven't been able to get much of a read on him, but you make some compelling points. Duly noted. I'll take another look through his filter now.
One minor point of contention: he said he thought no-lynch was a bad idea, and that we needed to lynch today.
On July 06 2012 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote:- Promethelax - Still Town
- Strong posts, plenty of reads on all suspicious behavior. Explains his actions and shows minimal contradictions.
- Any "contradictory" behavior seems related to players that were replaced
- He's actively tried pushing cases, but reconsiders when new evidence or scummier behavior becomes apparent. Doesn't tunnel into someone.
- Responds to most cases and gives his input, fleshing out the cases further and adding his own conclusions.
I'm not really going to comment much on these. I'll agree to disagree, for now.
He has been flip-floppy though. And he's one of the 3 people that were on both townie bandwagons, even when he claims they weren't his top scum reads.
On July 06 2012 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote:-
Fencer710 > Miltonkram - NULL
- I don't know...I really don't =\
- If Milton continues to lurk, he's scum in my book. Lurking replacement is completely unacceptable
Yea, like I mentioned in my notes, Fencar's posting really throws me for a loop. He flip-flopped around d1, had very little in the way of actually contributing, voted for Anacletus, but all the while it kind of seemed like he was just a newbie. His defense of Prom on day1 when Prom had been pushing hard on him all day was so out of nowhere. He was really all over the place.
And yea, Milton said he was going to be gone 8-12 hours and then would catch up. Its been 24 hours. Where are you?
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United States5162 Posts
I'm going to be honest even though it's going to make me look bad - I still don't have a fucking clue. Unless someone slips up ridiculously, any vote I make is no better then a coin flip based on the info I can see - even Fencar at this point. Call that scummy/non-committal/whatever if you want, but its my true belief and I'm not going to write some bullshit post that about stuff I don't believe in.
And since a few people brought it up, my outburst on N2 was because I pretty confident Intact was scum, was wrong, and have greatly contributed to our own demise with my wrong reads/votes; plus we have no information from blues and can't be sure about anything - that's really frustrating.
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Ok, finally back in the thread. I was expecting to get in here sooner but RL got in the way.
Once I get back from work I'll reread the thread and post my reads. I don't think I've seen a newbie game where every scum player hasn't slipped at least once. It's very possible to find scum players at this point, especially with two whole cycles to pull from. Townies keep your heads up. This game isn't over until it's over. I'll be back soon.
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Myles wrote:
I'm not going to write some bullshit post that about stuff I don't believe in.
So don't write up a bullshit post that you don't believe in. Write up a post with observations about the game, and the pros and cons about each person. Your perspective on people and what they've said is important, even if you're too non-committal to draw a conclusion.
@Milton, perfection, Bob, Umlaut: Where are you guys? This is getting ridiculous.
OOC: I would be curious to see what would happen in this game if all the active posters who make cases and keep the thread flowing were killed off (or just kept silent for a full day cycle). Who would step up? Would there just be 45 hours of nothing, then 3 hours of people voting? It's pretty frustrating.
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Alright now that every single person has basically been accused of being scum lets get the ball going. Even if we have to no lynch we still have to vote like ghost said so we may as well put our positions out there. Ive been rereading most of my own posts as well as my the person who i fell is the scum. Looking back at my own posts i feel if you took the names away we would be very similar to each other but bob has shown his true colors
Bobthelob throughout the game has tried to potray this look of "excuse me im a noob just a nervous townie dont mind me" when in truth he has been trying to subtly undermine the town while trying to blend in with the fellow lurkers such as myself. He has also tried to use the excuse that he either been sleep deprived or drunk to explain the lacking in his posts.
I prefer "Paranoid as hell dude who has no idea what to do" to "towny scared out of shell" JH.
On July 03 2012 16:15 BobTheLob wrote:
Will be leaving in about 5 minuets so if you have a response to my post please post the gist of it now so I can respond
Sleep deprivation's a bitch
On July 02 2012 09:26 BobTheLob wrote:
Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo)
His posts attempt to make the town look at as many people as possible trying to make us all confused by not giving any real target and trying to keep low and the atention on others.
On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer)
So in other words it could be anyone.
On July 02 2012 08:42 BobTheLob wrote:
Also hopeless makes since now butttttt I still think he's a bit iffy Fencer wit the early vote wtf dude! EXPLAIN
So it could be hopeless or it could be somebody else plus EVERYONE NOW LOOK AT FENCAR.
On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Ive made this point before he is trying to keep us confused and guessing by trying to lay blame on almost everyone this in no way helps the town. Saying it could be this guy is way for the scum to argue hey i was sucpicious of this guy and he turned scum so therfore im not scum. He's trying to cover all his bases.
However i think a more recent play is the best piece of evidence is something that happened a bit more recently. Think back to when all the crap was sliding twoards fencar. Fencar has his little temper tantrum and picked up his ball and went home but then all the attention slides away from fencar. Bob see's and whats does he do when he gets some heat.
On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML.
By threating to quit just like fencar did hes hoping the heat will leave him. I saw what happened with fencar and hes trying to buy another day and getting another mislynch which will basically lead to gg.
So therfore bob is scum
Vote ## bobthelob
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also i will be more active now since i think its crunch time and i think i can be very good at this game when i put my mind to it.
I will be back early tommorow morning.
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@ Keirathi
I'm doing the best I can. Replacing into this game has been ridiculously hard. I just got caught up on the thread and am now reading through filters. I'll give an update on my reads shortly.
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I think I have a pretty compelling argument for who we should lynch today... wait for it... ... ... ...
iamperfection
Here's the case:
He bandwagons onto both Anacletus and Fencer/me with this post.
Im torn between fencer and anceltus. I dont like the way fencer tried to bandwagon onto someone elses logic. On anceltus i dont really know i think he just posts a lot and he kind of clamed up when some of the suspicion came up. Im leaning more twoards fencer but im new at this so i will wait for more of discussion before casting my vote.
Notice that he has an opinion, albeit a weak one, on which of the players is the stronger scum read. If he were town, logic dictates that he would then pursue the player he has a stronger scum read on. Any well meaning townie would do that, whether through discussion, questioning, or just further analysis of a player's posts. If you look through his later posts, he doesn't. This leads me to believe that he really didn't care which one got lynched. Knowing what I know, that Anacletus and I are/were both town, his apathy towards the players in the crosshairs looks particularly damning. Also, the fact that he had a stronger scumread on Fencer makes the following posts quite suspect.
Although i dont agree with the line of thinking that got the bandwagon on anacletus, You have to say something anacletus! Ill give you a few more hours before i cast my vote.
He doesn't agree with the line of thinking that got Anacletus on the chopping block. Then why does he still support the lynch effort against him?
I think Anacletus is more suspicious than Fencer710. I think at this point it is likely that one or the other is likely scum just from the way they are posting. I also buy the defense that fencer gave more than the defense that anacletus gave. I think fencer argument that his actions are that of a noob townie make sense.
so i vote## Anacletus
Let me get this straight. First he finds Fencer more suspicious than Anacletus, but he doesn't actively pursue Fencer at all. Then he disagrees with the line of thinking that led to the bandwagon on Anacletus, but in the end he finds Anacletus more suspicious than Fencer. This does not make sense other than the fact that he really didn't care which of the players got lynched. That type of attitude doesn't make sense for anyone but scum. I think his play can be classified as a fairly major scumslip, one that I'm surprised hasn't been caught.
If this isn't enough to convince you here are a few other scummy parts of his play:
- He hasn't pursued cases or players with very much urgency.
- He once classified BobTheLob's play as "bad townie," but has since flip-flopped his opinion. What reasons are there for him to flip-flop at this time? A scum victory is really close. He could be going after a weak player in order to get the win.
- He seems really self-aware of his own status as a lurker, but has never explained why he hasn't been in the thread. IMO most townie lurkers have good reasons for there lack of posting. I would call iamperfection's style "active lurking" or "lurking with purpose."
If you just look at his filter you can see the lack of urgency he's played with and the suspicious logic behind his Fencer to Anacletus flip-flop. He's slipped and he has slipped hard. Let's lynch this guy.
##Vote: iamperfection
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On July 06 2012 12:38 iamperfection wrote:Alright now that every single person has basically been accused of being scum lets get the ball going. Even if we have to no lynch we still have to vote like ghost said so we may as well put our positions out there. Ive been rereading most of my own posts as well as my the person who i fell is the scum. Looking back at my own posts i feel if you took the names away we would be very similar to each other but bob has shown his true colors Bobthelob throughout the game has tried to potray this look of "excuse me im a noob just a nervous townie dont mind me" when in truth he has been trying to subtly undermine the town while trying to blend in with the fellow lurkers such as myself. He has also tried to use the excuse that he either been sleep deprived or drunk to explain the lacking in his posts. Show nested quote +I prefer "Paranoid as hell dude who has no idea what to do" to "towny scared out of shell" JH. Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 16:15 BobTheLob wrote:
Will be leaving in about 5 minuets so if you have a response to my post please post the gist of it now so I can respond
Sleep deprivation's a bitch Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 09:26 BobTheLob wrote:
Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo) His posts attempt to make the town look at as many people as possible trying to make us all confused by not giving any real target and trying to keep low and the atention on others. Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) So in other words it could be anyone. Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 08:42 BobTheLob wrote:
Also hopeless makes since now butttttt I still think he's a bit iffy Fencer wit the early vote wtf dude! EXPLAIN So it could be hopeless or it could be somebody else plus EVERYONE NOW LOOK AT FENCAR. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Ive made this point before he is trying to keep us confused and guessing by trying to lay blame on almost everyone this in no way helps the town. Saying it could be this guy is way for the scum to argue hey i was sucpicious of this guy and he turned scum so therfore im not scum. He's trying to cover all his bases. However i think a more recent play is the best piece of evidence is something that happened a bit more recently. Think back to when all the crap was sliding twoards fencar. Fencar has his little temper tantrum and picked up his ball and went home but then all the attention slides away from fencar. Bob see's and whats does he do when he gets some heat. Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML. By threating to quit just like fencar did hes hoping the heat will leave him. I saw what happened with fencar and hes trying to buy another day and getting another mislynch which will basically lead to gg. So therfore bob is scum Vote ## bobthelob
Wait what? I said I've dug myself a hole because I have, you've even proved that. I don't blame you for it in the slightest.
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I figured this might help people's reads on me. This is a list of previous games I've been in on TL. Spoilered so it won't take up too much space.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Going to sleep. I'd really appreciate some input on the iamperfection case I put together. I think at this point he is the best choice for lynch. I'll be up before the lynch proceedings happen, hopefully with enough time to contribute more analysis.
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I'm back!
I'm really sorry that I was MIA yesterday. Like I said before, my dad is visiting from America for a week. I skipped my lunch break, but I had assumed he'd crash really early and I'd be able to come in here at night, and then we ended up playing Caylus until midnight .
So what's been going on in here...
The No-Lynch option
If we really have no good reads, then no-lynching and hoping for a better read tomorrow is better than mislynching. We're 5 town and 3 PBUs now: One mislynch without a medic save at night ends the game. The disadvantage is that tomorrow we'll have most likely lost one of our better players, since the PBUs appear to be taking people out according to their ability to argue effectively, and because of the numbers the debate tomorrow will be more strongly dominated by PBUs (assuming they're not all lurking) than by town players. On balance, I would say that no-lynching is worth it if we don't think that we've got a better than 70% or so chance of hitting scum tonight.
Hopeless1der & Keirathi
Also, no one seems to have acknowledged my case on Intact. Presumably because I've been looking so scummy, but anyways I'll quote myself here in case you don't feel like going to look for it. To be honest, AmericanUmlaut's is a better version of my read.
The most suspicious person I've identified based on the way the game has progressed is AmericanUmlaut...He also backed the Intact case, essentially copying mine and expanding on it, but never actually acknowledged that I'd made a case.
In fact, I didn't make my case on Intact based on yours, though when you pointed out that my case was like a better version of yours I could see the similarities. At the time, my read of you was very, very scummy; I would never have used one of your posts as a starting point for my own argument. I was working from the assumption that one of the four players with a conspicuously small number of posts was very likely a PBU. I opened each of their filters, read them, and drew my conclusions from that - the fact that we both reached the same conclusions is an indication of how obvious Intact's scummy play was.
If I assume that you're town, your arguments are seriously weird. I'm scummy because I agreed with one of the points that you made, but didn't give you acknowledgement? And because I voted for Anacletus (before changing my mind and joining JingleHell in voting against you) and then -- just like you -- for Intact?
Once Keirathi posted his detailed read of the thread so far, Umlaut felt it was necessary to piece-by-piece defend himself but has been pretty mute on the course of events otherwise. This isn't pro-town and sounds like he just wants to deflate Keirathi's contribution so that we end up with less credible information.
Again, this is a pretty weird argument. Keirathi popped in as a replacement for a scummy player and posted scummy-looking reads of every player in the game (never mind that he put vague numbers before his "everyone could be scum" list), and you're surprised that I took the time to contradict his points? Debate of that nature is the core of the game that we're playing; the fact that Anacletus and Impact felt no need to defend themselves against our accusations is exactly the reason that we're in the predicament we find ourselves in.
So who has demonstrated enthusiasm for Hopeless's analysis so far? Only Keirathi, who (not to overly belabor a point) seems to have a strategy of flinging poo in every direction and seeing what sticks.
I've gone back and forth on Hopeless since the start of the game, but I am now firmly convinced that we'd be well on our way to winning this game if JH and I had gotten more support to ban him day 1. His case against Blind-RawR day 2 was not a clumsy attempt at provoking a mislynch; it was a clumsy attempt at bussing his way out of the scummy read he'd developed day 1. Now he and Blind-RawRKeirathi are pushing cases every which way, while making sure to disagree just enough, and to post their suspicions of each other. I smell an attempt to see where the kernel of a mislynch forms so that they can drop the hammer and end the game. And if the worst happens and one of us smells that something's up, they've got a couple of nice juicy posts to quote for towncred.
The only question is which is the better lynch. Promethelax, you're by far my best town read right now, and I see that you've come to the same conclusion that I have with regard to Kier and Hopeless (<--- I'm acknowledging you, please don't get angry at me later for agreeing with your points). Who do you think is the better candidate? What do the rest of you think?
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As you can see I've been gone for a little while, unfortunately Real Life and I have had some things to work out. I will be voting now for Hopeless, who I think is slightly scummier than Kier. I re-read the thread and it is Hopeless' filter than stands out as scummy throughout the whole game, I am pretty sure that both are scum but am more confident of Hopeless.
Hopeless started people down the Intact road, which Umlat followed up with using a much better case. We lynched into Intact and killed another townie. It is time for us to kill scum and Hopeless is it. I have made cases on him through much of this game and truly believe that he is red.
I will once again be gone for some time (work and other RL concerns) but in the meantime:
Vote: Hopeless
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On July 06 2012 14:38 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 12:38 iamperfection wrote:Alright now that every single person has basically been accused of being scum lets get the ball going. Even if we have to no lynch we still have to vote like ghost said so we may as well put our positions out there. Ive been rereading most of my own posts as well as my the person who i fell is the scum. Looking back at my own posts i feel if you took the names away we would be very similar to each other but bob has shown his true colors Bobthelob throughout the game has tried to potray this look of "excuse me im a noob just a nervous townie dont mind me" when in truth he has been trying to subtly undermine the town while trying to blend in with the fellow lurkers such as myself. He has also tried to use the excuse that he either been sleep deprived or drunk to explain the lacking in his posts. I prefer "Paranoid as hell dude who has no idea what to do" to "towny scared out of shell" JH. On July 03 2012 16:15 BobTheLob wrote:
Will be leaving in about 5 minuets so if you have a response to my post please post the gist of it now so I can respond
Sleep deprivation's a bitch On July 02 2012 09:26 BobTheLob wrote:
Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo) His posts attempt to make the town look at as many people as possible trying to make us all confused by not giving any real target and trying to keep low and the atention on others. On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) So in other words it could be anyone. On July 02 2012 08:42 BobTheLob wrote:
Also hopeless makes since now butttttt I still think he's a bit iffy Fencer wit the early vote wtf dude! EXPLAIN So it could be hopeless or it could be somebody else plus EVERYONE NOW LOOK AT FENCAR. On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Ive made this point before he is trying to keep us confused and guessing by trying to lay blame on almost everyone this in no way helps the town. Saying it could be this guy is way for the scum to argue hey i was sucpicious of this guy and he turned scum so therfore im not scum. He's trying to cover all his bases. However i think a more recent play is the best piece of evidence is something that happened a bit more recently. Think back to when all the crap was sliding twoards fencar. Fencar has his little temper tantrum and picked up his ball and went home but then all the attention slides away from fencar. Bob see's and whats does he do when he gets some heat. On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML. By threating to quit just like fencar did hes hoping the heat will leave him. I saw what happened with fencar and hes trying to buy another day and getting another mislynch which will basically lead to gg. So therfore bob is scum Vote ## bobthelob Wait what? I said I've dug myself a hole because I have, you've even proved that. I don't blame you for it in the slightest.
what?
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On July 06 2012 21:36 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
The No-Lynch option
If we really have no good reads, then no-lynching and hoping for a better read tomorrow is better than mislynching. We're 5 town and 3 PBUs now: One mislynch without a medic save at night ends the game. The disadvantage is that tomorrow we'll have most likely lost one of our better players, since the PBUs appear to be taking people out according to their ability to argue effectively, and because of the numbers the debate tomorrow will be more strongly dominated by PBUs (assuming they're not all lurking) than by town players. On balance, I would say that no-lynching is worth it if we don't think that we've got a better than 70% or so chance of hitting scum tonight.
Before I address the rest of your post, I just want to share something I realized last night. Because we can't abstain from voting, nor can we actually vote for a no-lynch, the only realistic way we can plan a no-lynch is if every townie votes for a different person. If any two townies vote for the same person, then the 3 mafia can just hammer them at the last minute and we lose.
That's not to say that a no-lynch can't accidentally happen in other ways, but its pretty unlikely. The most obvious way is if we get to the end of the day and someone has a large number of votes (say, 4) and no one hammers him. That means that person is almost certainly scum, because scum would hammer any townie at the last minute on this day because they are virtually guaranteed the win.
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On July 07 2012 00:02 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 21:36 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
The No-Lynch option
If we really have no good reads, then no-lynching and hoping for a better read tomorrow is better than mislynching. We're 5 town and 3 PBUs now: One mislynch without a medic save at night ends the game. The disadvantage is that tomorrow we'll have most likely lost one of our better players, since the PBUs appear to be taking people out according to their ability to argue effectively, and because of the numbers the debate tomorrow will be more strongly dominated by PBUs (assuming they're not all lurking) than by town players. On balance, I would say that no-lynching is worth it if we don't think that we've got a better than 70% or so chance of hitting scum tonight.
Before I address the rest of your post, I just want to share something I realized last night. Because we can't abstain from voting, nor can we actually vote for a no-lynch, the only realistic way we can plan a no-lynch is if every townie votes for a different person. If any two townies vote for the same person, then the 3 mafia can just hammer them at the last minute and we lose. That's not to say that a no-lynch can't accidentally happen in other ways, but its pretty unlikely. The most obvious way is if we get to the end of the day and someone has a large number of votes (say, 4) and no one hammers him. That means that person is almost certainly scum, because scum would hammer any townie at the last minute on this day because they are virtually guaranteed the win.
You're right. A simple solution would be that, if we decide a no-lynch is our best course of action, everyone vote for himself. If I remember correctly, that's allowed, and then we don't have to waste any time assigning votes to everyone.
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On July 06 2012 23:45 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 14:38 BobTheLob wrote:On July 06 2012 12:38 iamperfection wrote:Alright now that every single person has basically been accused of being scum lets get the ball going. Even if we have to no lynch we still have to vote like ghost said so we may as well put our positions out there. Ive been rereading most of my own posts as well as my the person who i fell is the scum. Looking back at my own posts i feel if you took the names away we would be very similar to each other but bob has shown his true colors Bobthelob throughout the game has tried to potray this look of "excuse me im a noob just a nervous townie dont mind me" when in truth he has been trying to subtly undermine the town while trying to blend in with the fellow lurkers such as myself. He has also tried to use the excuse that he either been sleep deprived or drunk to explain the lacking in his posts. I prefer "Paranoid as hell dude who has no idea what to do" to "towny scared out of shell" JH. On July 03 2012 16:15 BobTheLob wrote:
Will be leaving in about 5 minuets so if you have a response to my post please post the gist of it now so I can respond
Sleep deprivation's a bitch On July 02 2012 09:26 BobTheLob wrote:
Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo) His posts attempt to make the town look at as many people as possible trying to make us all confused by not giving any real target and trying to keep low and the atention on others. On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) So in other words it could be anyone. On July 02 2012 08:42 BobTheLob wrote:
Also hopeless makes since now butttttt I still think he's a bit iffy Fencer wit the early vote wtf dude! EXPLAIN So it could be hopeless or it could be somebody else plus EVERYONE NOW LOOK AT FENCAR. On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Ive made this point before he is trying to keep us confused and guessing by trying to lay blame on almost everyone this in no way helps the town. Saying it could be this guy is way for the scum to argue hey i was sucpicious of this guy and he turned scum so therfore im not scum. He's trying to cover all his bases. However i think a more recent play is the best piece of evidence is something that happened a bit more recently. Think back to when all the crap was sliding twoards fencar. Fencar has his little temper tantrum and picked up his ball and went home but then all the attention slides away from fencar. Bob see's and whats does he do when he gets some heat. On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML. By threating to quit just like fencar did hes hoping the heat will leave him. I saw what happened with fencar and hes trying to buy another day and getting another mislynch which will basically lead to gg. So therfore bob is scum Vote ## bobthelob Wait what? I said I've dug myself a hole because I have, you've even proved that. I don't blame you for it in the slightest. what?
I've got to agree with the sentiments expressed so eloquently in this post. Do I correctly understand that you (Bob) are arguing that iamperfection's contention that you're scum is stupid ("Wait what?") because you already said that your play has been scummy as hell?
I don't even know whether to read that argument as scummy or not. It's too stupid an argument to make sense coming from anybody, regardless of their alignment.
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It's looking like I might be lynched so I'm claiming Vanilla Townie
Some of my scummy behavior is from throwaway posts early. Whether anyone believes me or not, well I tried:
On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on.
On June 29 2012 07:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:32 JingleHell wrote:
And just in case people decide to show up, and start trying to take my lack of posts as suspicious, I'll be leaving in a bit for TKD. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Myles, if you have a suggestion for flushing the scum with people not talking until we have something to go on, feel free to elaborate on that plan. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with the established method of getting people talking enough that we either get something to work with, or at least get enough people active to be physically capable of lynching anybody. Aha! That's what we're looking for you lieing... Or maybe 10 minutes counts as a bit... Whatevs, Not a big deal. I do probably need to read better though. Everyone else needs to hurry up and get in here, im freaking out man.
Easily done as scum to fall back on later so I don't expect this to sway anyone significantly, but consider the two posts I quoted. They're both terrible with practically no contributions, except for the role I breadcrumbed.
Since I have to vote for someone, I'm voting for AmericanUmlaut as my strongest read, and he currently has no votes. I'd prefer the no-lynch in this situation, but I cant vote No Lynch so...
##Vote: AmericanUmlaut
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On July 07 2012 00:39 Hopeless1der wrote:
It's looking like I might be lynched so I'm claiming Vanilla Townie
That's a well thought-out rebuttal.
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Wait, I just got it. You breadcrumbed "vanilla townie" into the first letters of the sentences.
You're right. That's easily done as scum to fall back on later.
##Vote: Hopeless1der
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On July 07 2012 00:39 Hopeless1der wrote:It's looking like I might be lynched so I'm claiming Vanilla TownieSome of my scummy behavior is from throwaway posts early. Whether anyone believes me or not, well I tried: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:56 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:32 JingleHell wrote:
And just in case people decide to show up, and start trying to take my lack of posts as suspicious, I'll be leaving in a bit for TKD. On June 29 2012 07:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Myles, if you have a suggestion for flushing the scum with people not talking until we have something to go on, feel free to elaborate on that plan. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with the established method of getting people talking enough that we either get something to work with, or at least get enough people active to be physically capable of lynching anybody. Aha! That's what we're looking for you lieing... Or maybe 10 minutes counts as a bit... Whatevs, Not a big deal. I do probably need to read better though. Everyone else needs to hurry up and get in here, im freaking out man. Easily done as scum to fall back on later so I don't expect this to sway anyone significantly, but consider the two posts I quoted. They're both terrible with practically no contributions, except for the role I breadcrumbed. Since I have to vote for someone, I'm voting for AmericanUmlaut as my strongest read, and he currently has no votes. I'd prefer the no-lynch in this situation, but I cant vote No Lynch so... ##Vote: AmericanUmlaut
rofl, that's creative.
Not overly helpful, but creative.
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Now, on to my rebuttal:
AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Keirathi popped in as a replacement for a scummy player and posted scummy-looking reads of every player in the game (never mind that he put vague numbers before his "everyone could be scum" list), and you're surprised that I took the time to contradict his points? Debate of that nature is the core of the game that we're playing; the fact that Anacletus and Impact felt no need to defend themselves against our accusations is exactly the reason that we're in the predicament we find ourselves in.
So who has demonstrated enthusiasm for Hopeless's analysis so far? Only Keirathi, who (not to overly belabor a point) seems to have a strategy of flinging poo in every direction and seeing what sticks.
I've gone back and forth on Hopeless since the start of the game, but I am now firmly convinced that we'd be well on our way to winning this game if JH and I had gotten more support to ban him day 1. His case against Blind-RawR day 2 was not a clumsy attempt at provoking a mislynch; it was a clumsy attempt at bussing his way out of the scummy read he'd developed day 1. Now he and Blind-RawRKeirathi are pushing cases every which way, while making sure to disagree just enough, and to post their suspicions of each other. I smell an attempt to see where the kernel of a mislynch forms so that they can drop the hammer and end the game. And if the worst happens and one of us smells that something's up, they've got a couple of nice juicy posts to quote for towncred.
So what did you want me to do, coming into the game? I felt it was my job to make a thorough investigation of everyone with "what-if goggles", and read through with the assumption that each individual person COULD be mafia.
Also, you took time to contradict my points, but like Prom, didn't care enough to commend on my counter points. Do you want to defend yourself, or not?
Enthusiasm for Hopeless's analysis? I made comments because that's what I've been asking EVERYONE to do.
Pushing cases every which way? I guess I can understand why you think a general analysis of activities I thought could be scummy behavior if you assume the person is scum before they said it could be flinging poo. But I haven't actively tried to push a target because I just don't fucking know. So I've just been begging forr other people to come throw in their own input, and responding to arguments they make. You even acknowledged that debate is the core mechanic of this game.
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On July 07 2012 01:14 iamperfection wrote:
time check please
Day 3 set to end in 4 hours, 45 minutes
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On July 07 2012 01:14 iamperfection wrote:
time check please
4 hours, 45 minutes left I believe.
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Day 3 Vote Count:
AmericanUmlaut (1): hopeless1der
BobTheLob (1): iamperfection
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
iamperfection (1): Miltonkram
Not Voted: Keirathi, BobTheLob, Myles
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Currently, no one is set to be lynched Day 3. ~4.5 hours remain!
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Hold the phone. What do you guys think of the scumslip I posted on iamperfection?
I feel like I found a pretty major scumslip by him. I think he's our best chance of flipping scum. I know Hopeless1der looks scummy, but that is mostly from his D1 play. He has since improved, whether from PMing the coaches or Mafia QT I'm not quite sure yet, but he's improved enough to the point where lynching him makes me feel uncomfortable. I'd really like people to take a look into his case.
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On July 07 2012 02:44 Miltonkram wrote:
Hold the phone. What do you guys think of the scumslip I posted on iamperfection?
I feel like I found a pretty major scumslip by him. I think he's our best chance of flipping scum. I know Hopeless1der looks scummy, but that is mostly from his D1 play. He has since improved, whether from PMing the coaches or Mafia QT I'm not quite sure yet, but he's improved enough to the point where lynching him makes me feel uncomfortable. I'd really like people to take a look into his case.
Your accusation was accurate, but so many people have done the same thing this game. Its weird to demonize one person for it, but not the others.
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@ Keirathi
I disagree. I feel like if you look at the flow of thought in iamperfection's filter, it doesn't make sense for anyone but scum. There are other players who were pretty wishy-washy at the time, but iamperfection states, "I dont agree with the line of thinking that got the bandwagon on anacletus," before anacletus was lynched. This sounds like a player who knows Anacletus is town. I don't think any of the other players had quite so bad a line of reasoning as iamperfection, and I'm calling him out on it. I think he has the greatest chance of flipping scum of any of the players left in the game.
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On July 07 2012 03:23 Miltonkram wrote:
@ Keirathi
I disagree. I feel like if you look at the flow of thought in iamperfection's filter, it doesn't make sense for anyone but scum. There are other players who were pretty wishy-washy at the time, but iamperfection states, "I dont agree with the line of thinking that got the bandwagon on anacletus," before anacletus was lynched. This sounds like a player who knows Anacletus is town. I don't think any of the other players had quite so bad a line of reasoning as iamperfection, and I'm calling him out on it. I think he has the greatest chance of flipping scum of any of the players left in the game.
When you look back at what happened for the first day anacletus was lynched for basically telling a joke. All though i didnt write anything at the time i thought it was really dumb that we were just lynching someone because he made one of the cuff remark. Later their were arguments that no lynch was worse than lynching a townie so for better or worse i decided to go along with it. Looking back on my posts now they are overall mediocore in my view in that i was just trying to survive. I am trying to get rid of the wish washyness in my posts now because its crunch time and if were going to win we need to be almost perfect in our steps and im more confident in how to play this game.
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also where the fuck is everybody.
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On July 07 2012 00:21 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 23:45 iamperfection wrote:On July 06 2012 14:38 BobTheLob wrote:On July 06 2012 12:38 iamperfection wrote:Alright now that every single person has basically been accused of being scum lets get the ball going. Even if we have to no lynch we still have to vote like ghost said so we may as well put our positions out there. Ive been rereading most of my own posts as well as my the person who i fell is the scum. Looking back at my own posts i feel if you took the names away we would be very similar to each other but bob has shown his true colors Bobthelob throughout the game has tried to potray this look of "excuse me im a noob just a nervous townie dont mind me" when in truth he has been trying to subtly undermine the town while trying to blend in with the fellow lurkers such as myself. He has also tried to use the excuse that he either been sleep deprived or drunk to explain the lacking in his posts. I prefer "Paranoid as hell dude who has no idea what to do" to "towny scared out of shell" JH. On July 03 2012 16:15 BobTheLob wrote:
Will be leaving in about 5 minuets so if you have a response to my post please post the gist of it now so I can respond
Sleep deprivation's a bitch On July 02 2012 09:26 BobTheLob wrote:
Yay not me! :D :D :D :D :D What reads do you have on me(Besides scared/drunk/hasnoideawhattodo) His posts attempt to make the town look at as many people as possible trying to make us all confused by not giving any real target and trying to keep low and the atention on others. On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) So in other words it could be anyone. On July 02 2012 08:42 BobTheLob wrote:
Also hopeless makes since now butttttt I still think he's a bit iffy Fencer wit the early vote wtf dude! EXPLAIN So it could be hopeless or it could be somebody else plus EVERYONE NOW LOOK AT FENCAR. On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Ive made this point before he is trying to keep us confused and guessing by trying to lay blame on almost everyone this in no way helps the town. Saying it could be this guy is way for the scum to argue hey i was sucpicious of this guy and he turned scum so therfore im not scum. He's trying to cover all his bases. However i think a more recent play is the best piece of evidence is something that happened a bit more recently. Think back to when all the crap was sliding twoards fencar. Fencar has his little temper tantrum and picked up his ball and went home but then all the attention slides away from fencar. Bob see's and whats does he do when he gets some heat. On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML. By threating to quit just like fencar did hes hoping the heat will leave him. I saw what happened with fencar and hes trying to buy another day and getting another mislynch which will basically lead to gg. So therfore bob is scum Vote ## bobthelob Wait what? I said I've dug myself a hole because I have, you've even proved that. I don't blame you for it in the slightest. what? I've got to agree with the sentiments expressed so eloquently in this post. Do I correctly understand that you (Bob) are arguing that iamperfection's contention that you're scum is stupid ("Wait what?") because you already said that your play has been scummy as hell? I don't even know whether to read that argument as scummy or not. It's too stupid an argument to make sense coming from anybody, regardless of their alignment.
No, I'm saying his post is useless, but for my opinion on what's going on right now as it seems that I won't be lynched today.
The No Lynch is a good idea if we can actually get a read tomorrow, unfortunately I doubt that. A No Lynch is fine if we have any blues left, but I don't think we do.
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On July 07 2012 03:43 BobTheLob wrote:
No, I'm saying his post is useless, but for my opinion on what's going on right now as it seems that I won't be lynched today.
The No Lynch is a good idea if we can actually get a read tomorrow, unfortunately I doubt that. A No Lynch is fine if we have any blues left, but I don't think we do.
I really hope we have more than 1 blue role in a 12 player game. That seems like pretty bad odds for town. These games are supposedly looked at by the balance team before given the OK and put in the queue. I feel sure we have at least 1 more.
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On July 07 2012 03:52 BobTheLob wrote:
oh and
##Vote BobTheLob
Why would give yourself 2 votes? if you want a no lynch just pick someone with 0. the scum could come in at the last min and get a lynch.
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For the record, if we decide to no-lynch, I believe we can vote for a no-lynch.
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On July 05 2012 22:25 ghost_403 wrote:
Just so there's no confusion, you cannot vote for a no lynch. The no lynch can still happen by voting in such a way that no one has the majority (5 votes at the moment), but you have to cast a vote for someone still in the game.
We cannot.
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On July 07 2012 03:55 iamperfection wrote:Why would give yourself 2 votes? if you want a no lynch just pick someone with 0. the scum could come in at the last min and get a lynch.
Okay then.
##UnVote
##Vote Keirathi
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Yea, I really don't think we're going to come to a consensus at this point. So I'm for no-lynch.
##Vote Miltonkram
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On July 07 2012 04:43 iamperfection wrote:
vote count
From my count its:
AmericanUmlaut (1): hopeless1der
BobTheLob (1): iamperfection
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
iamperfection (1): Miltonkram
Miltonkram (1): Keirathi
Keirathi (1): BobTheLob
Not Voted: Myles
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Isnt there only 10 mins left?
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On July 07 2012 04:51 iamperfection wrote:
Isnt there only 10 mins left?
No. 1 hour, 10 minutes.
06:00 forum time.
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Myles, are you around? I believe the consensus is to no-lynch. That doesn't work if someone gets modkilled.
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I don't think he would get instantly mod-killed.
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On July 07 2012 04:43 iamperfection wrote:
vote count
AmericanUmlaut (1): hopeless1der
BobTheLob (1): iamperfection
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
iamperfection (1): Miltonkram
Keirathi(1): BobTheLob
Miltonkram(1): Keirathi
Not Voted: Myles
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch, currently no one set to be lynched Day 3. 1 hour to go.
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Me niether, considering the game hangs on everyone being alive. I would still prefer him to stay in the game without being replaced. I can only imagine how difficult it could get with another replacement.
I'd also appreciate it if town players would be vigilant around the deadline to make sure this no-lynch goes through. AU + Promethelax, if either of you are in the thread, I'd like one of you to get your vote off of Hopeless1der. If neither of you are scum, and Hopeless isn't scum, then all 3 scum could switch onto the Hopeless vote for a mislynch. Get your vote on either Myles or Promethelax.
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Miltonkram: No worries, I haven't forgotten, and I'll hop off to make sure that no mislynch takes place. I'm going to do it as close to 5:59:59 TL time as possible, though. The ideal situation is that just before I post this, all three scum jump onto Hopeless1der to force the mislynch and end the game; if that has actually happened, I happily apologize to Hopeless1der for my misread of him, and we have won the game.
I really don't think that's going to happen, though. I think that, as I type this, there is no plot brewing amongst the PBUs of this thread to jump on Hopeless1der en masse and take their victory, because I think that Hopeless1der is, in fact, scum. I know for a fact that I am a townie. I have as strong a townie read on Promethelax as I think you can get in a Mafia game without verification from a blue. That means there are currently two town votes on Hopeless, and if he were also town, hammering him would be the obvious play. Even more so because Promethelax has told us that he's got RL committments at voting time, so he's locked in. I've been inactive for five hours; there is no reason for the PBUs to think that I'm here ready to switch my vote.
I've sat here f5ing the thread in my other tab, and there's still no mafia posts at 22:59. I'm posting my switch now, just in case they are posting simultaneously.
##Unvote Hopeless1der
##Vote Myles
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Deadline. Night post incoming.
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Time's up. Hopeless is scum.
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Oh, and what the fuck is up with Myles not posting? Do most newbie games have a replacement every cycle? This is getting a bit ridiculous...
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United States5162 Posts
Whoops, sorry guys. I was super busy today and lost track of time. I thought it was like 4 o'clock -_-
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Night post will go up in ~30 minutes.
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Good move AU. Also, I think it's time we start discussing at night. It's very probable that a well-meaning townie is going to die tonight and any information/scumhunting that they can contribute would probably help us rather than hurt us.
Right now I'm looking at a scum team among the following: Keirathi/Blind-Rawr, iamperfection, BobTheLob, and Hopeless1der.
I'll be rereading filters to see if I can come up with anything more solid on these players.
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End of Day 3
After a long day of debate, the trusted members of the ABL thread had come up emty. No leads, no ideas. With every day the conspiracy was drawing ever closer to their victory while the ABL posters squabbled away.
But all was not lost. ghost_403 had one last plan, one final confrontation that would either lead to his victory, or to the ruin of all....
No one was lynched.
Myles has been pardoned for failing to vote. Please hold all discussions on pardons/modkills until the end of the game.
It is now Night 3. If you have night actions, please PM them to me, TheToast, and GMarshal in a PM with the title 'NMMXIX Night 3 Action'. Night 3 ends in 24 hours, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00)
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United States5162 Posts
Ok, thanks ghost for the pardon. And again, sorry for my absence.
AU, you make some strong points imo. If you and Prom are town, which I'm inclined to believe right now, there's no reason for the scum not to at least test the waters. That there was almost no support besides you two seems far more meaningful than any of reads we've made so far. Unless something else significant comes along, I think that will influence my vote the most since words are up for interpretation, but actions speak louder.
I also think Bob's vote on himself is telling. He's played the dumb newb card pretty well, but how would you not realize putting two votes on yourself is not the way to cause a no-lynch? I think that was a scum slip.
Bob and Hopeless have my FoS.
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AU, you just created a WIFOM situation that could suggest that you actually are scum and just bought yourself some town cred. I'm hoping there's a DT that's checked me already as it seems like the only way we're going to win. Prom and Umlaut have both been quite vocal about their desire to lynch me. I really hope this hasn't already happened and I'm the miller.
Prom has not yet had a chance to respond to my claim, and I'm interested to see his take on it.
Regardless, if we have an information role (DT/Tracker/Watcher), I'd like you to post anything you have as close to the deadline as possible in case you are NK'd. Medics cant really do anything other than go for the miracle save. I could care less if I was shot, as it would prove I was town and lend some more credence to my read on Umlaut (Yay more Wine).
Tomorrow, I think we should mass claim because its a Lynch (correctly) or lose situation. There may be an exception for a Vigilante to save his shot for the next night, but other than that I can't think of a good reason not to claim.
As a heads up, I'm gone camping for the next day or so. I don't expect internet access until Sunday morning. I'll be around for another hour tonight.
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Umlat: I love that play. That was actually great, you would do well to remember that it only proves that Hopeless is scum if neither of us are. Now I know I am not scum and I'm pretty sure you aren't either but if you are scum two more votes wouldn't have hammered Hopeless. Since my read on you us pretty good as a a townie I'm guessing that you are right about Hopeless.
Pre-Post Edit. I shall not talk about pardons or mod kills.
Hopeless: as to your claim...I don't know what to say. You bread crumb'd VT? That is the safest claim by scum, I don't know what to say. Because there are no actions to back it up it seems like a role that you don't need to claim although I can see how a newb scum or townie would do that. I still think you are scum but this claim is totally null.
Why are you interested in my take in particular? I'm actually really curious dude. (not sarcasm)
As to your proposal about a mass claim it can't hurt us. After the NK (I'm still assuming no medic saves) we have to lynch perfectly three times so we may as well have everything on the table. A no-lynch won't be an option tomorrow, we need every scrap of information we have.
Has it occurred to you that we might not have any information roles though? There has been a lot of talk about Newbie's relying too heavily on Blues, maybe Ghost decided to leave them out of the game and make us scumhunt for ourselves? I know this is more of a balance concern but it is something to think about.
I'll be awake for a while, I was out partying and am going to watch the GSTL. I'll be around though and, as usual I'll be here in the morning before work.
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Alright, I'm going to get my thoughts out here before the day post.
I agree with AU that Hopeless must be scum. I've got a fairly strong town read on both Promethelax and AU. Come day, if I'm still alive, I will vote for Hopeless.
... and yea, the townsfolk did then sacrifice his body to the hamster gods.
Moving on. I realized that a lot of my cases against the other players have been created based on process of elimination. While I don't mind discussion at night, I find that conversation on townie reads during the night only benefits scum. Hence, I will be posting this right before the day post so as not to give the PBU's more information.
Myles- I have a slight townie read on him. During the beginning of the game, he clashed a little bit with JingleHell. JingleHell was doing his best to be a strong voice for the town. I find scum players will typically agree with a strong townie voice rather than risk being brought into the spotlight. The fact that he was suspicious of JingleHell's intentions gives me a townie vibe, even though it was over an issue of semantics. A scum player would know that JH was town and likely wouldn't disagree with such a strong townie voice.
iamperfection- I'm pretty sure he's scum. Just look at my case against him.
Keirathi- Blind-Rawr put Keirathi in a bad spot. If I disassociate the play of both players I can see that Keirathi is playing fairly close to his town meta. That leads me to believe that Blind-Rawr was a weak/disinterested town player. Barring further evidence, I'm giving Keirathi the BOTD.
BobTheLob- I'm guessing he is our last scum player and iamperfection was going for a full on bus against him during D3. It would make sense considering his "I'm about to give up" post. It would also explain iamperfection's sudden flurry of activity.
These reads are subject to change, but I feel fairly confident in them. If I find any evidence for or against them I will post it. I don't mind if we agree to lynch Hopeless right away, but don't let that kill discussion.
This goes out to everybody. Do you agree with my reads? Is there any evidence for or against my reads that you can present? I'll be making a quick run out to the store, but then I'll be back before work to contribute some more.
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As much as I hate to do this, its LYLO so I'm going to give us the best chance of winning, even though it will probably cost me my life.
I am Motbob (Detective). I've hinted at it a few times already, not that that's proof or anything, but maybe someone picked up on it.
On Night 2, I investigated Myles. He returned Innocent. You'll notice that I gave him a high read in my night post, but then I laid off pressing him during the day. The possibility of a GF makes me still not dismiss him 100%, but I wouldn't vote him unless there was only 1 maf left and he was still alive.
Tonight, I am investigating Hopeless1der. I had a decently strong read on him coming into D3. His posting has improved a lot since N1, but I'm not entirely convinced after the no-lynch. However, if he returns innocent, then there's a decent chance that one of UA/Prom are mafia. We shall see.
I'll be posting the result on him as soon as I get the PM.
I had a hard time deciding who to Investigate tonight. If I look at everyone with what-if-this-person-is-mafia goggles, I can make a reasonable case against every single one. The main reason I decided to go with Hopeless in the end is that because of UA's last second unvote plan, we get information on 2-3 people instead of just 1.
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Night Three has ended. Day post is coming in just a few minutes.
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End of Night 3
ghost_403 hurried through the dark streets of NYC. The sun was just beginning to crest the far horizon. He knew he didn't have much time left. He felt his phone vibrate. No. Not again. He looked down to see the incoming text message. He released a sigh of relief when he saw it was from one of the TL admins, but his respite proved to be brief.
Somehow the conspiracy had managed to hack the account of one of the admins, releasing several bans before the TL central computer's automated defense programs shut them down. Most of the banned accounts were nobodies, but one name stuck out. Before he could react, ghost recieved another text. It was from TheToast. "looool nice going ghost! It looks like yet another one of your little band has fallen! Hahaha". Ghost was enraged, but he knew he needed to keep his cool. He had one and only one chance left to defeat the conspiracy, and time was now extremely short.
Ghost ran off through the streets of NYC into the twilight of the dawn. The final confrontation was now not long off...
Miltonkram playing the trusted ABL Poster, has been banned (killed)!
It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to decide on your next lynch.
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I was roleblocked
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Boooooo! I wanted to keep playing.
GG everybody
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GG Milton. Sorry you had to come into a bad spot from a player who gave up.
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United States5162 Posts
Given Keirathi's latest revelation and the results of the night, I'm thinking that Hopeless, iamperfection, and bobthelob are the scum team. Even without the confirmation on Hopeless, the case Umlaut made is 100% valid imo.
It's hard to make a solid case for bob or perfection one way or another, so it's basically down to process of elimination. I've had a town read on Prom for a while now. Umalut's last minute change makes me pretty certain he's town. And Keirathi saying his investigation revealed town on me after he was initially quite suspicious makes me think his role claim is legit - that, or we don't have a dt which seems incomprehensible for a newb game.
I still think bob voting himself is a tell that he is scum. My reasoning is that a real townie, even a dumb one, would consider the fact that putting a second vote on themselves makes it possible for scum to hop on and seal the lynch in that situation. Since he is scum it didn't cross his mind because he was focused on looking pro-town and going along with the no-lynch.
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On July 08 2012 08:27 Myles wrote:
I still think bob voting himself is a tell that he is scum. My reasoning is that a real townie, even a dumb one, would consider the fact that putting a second vote on themselves makes it possible for scum to hop on and seal the lynch in that situation. Since he is scum it didn't cross his mind because he was focused on looking pro-town and going along with the no-lynch.
AmericanUmlaut suggested that we all vote for ourselves a while back when I mentioned that we would all have to have different votes for a no-lynch to work. Assuming he read that and remembered it, it was not necessarily a scum slip, just not paying attention and thought that was still the plan.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 08 2012 08:37 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 08:27 Myles wrote:
I still think bob voting himself is a tell that he is scum. My reasoning is that a real townie, even a dumb one, would consider the fact that putting a second vote on themselves makes it possible for scum to hop on and seal the lynch in that situation. Since he is scum it didn't cross his mind because he was focused on looking pro-town and going along with the no-lynch. AmericanUmlaut suggested that we all vote for ourselves a while back when I mentioned that we would all have to have different votes for a no-lynch to work. Assuming he read that and remembered it, it was not necessarily a scum slip, just not paying attention and thought that was still the plan.
That's why I think it was a slip, because an actual townie would be paying attention to fact that they opened to door to getting themselves lynched.
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United States5162 Posts
EWBOP - That, or he really is as dumb as he portrays.
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United States5162 Posts
EBWOP - And goddamn I messed up 'the' twice in my first post.
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I still think that Kier's posting seems scummy and this play would be a great gambit if it is one. The whole thing comes up null to me, either he is our dt or he is a really excellent scum player. Either way I don't think lynching into him is a good idea, Hopeless is scummier and I'm not risking mis-lynching into our dt to lose us the game even if I don't think the claim has any proof behind it.
Keir: Did you breadcrumb your role or your first check? If so where?
Also: thanks for FoSing me, I didn't expect to live this long.
We need to lynch 100% scum today, now I think Hopeless is our best bet of a scum lynch and, assuming we are right we'll get another day to read from and see what has happened.
Who do each of you think is most scummy? We have to lynch our number one target, we can't settle for second best or probably scum. If you were mayor who would die tonight? I want an honest up-front answer from each of you which starts with the simple sentence: "If I were mayor X would die tonight" and a follow up of your reasoning.
That said, if I were mayor Hopeless1der would die tonight.
He is the scummiest player we have in this game and Umlaut's gambit last night makes me more sure of Hopeless than of anyone else. As you know from my vote yesterday I already thought that he was the scummiest since I voted before we went for a no-lynch. The way things played out yesterday reenforced my belief that Hopeless will flip red. So I will be voting Hopeless1der and urge you all to do the same. We can still bring this back and win it.
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United States5162 Posts
Based on what happened, Hopeless is scum, or the mafia played some exceptional meta-gaming by predicting Umlaut's plan, since them jumping on last minute would have tied things up unless our medic got their first save of the game. That or everyone's read on you except Keirathi's had been wrong, and Umlaut's post was it's own meta-game, but that seems very unlikely at this point. Hopeless seems most likely and we have to go with that.
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@Promethelax: I did drop some hints about my role.
On July 05 2012 06:00 Keirathi wrote:
I feel like its my job as a townsperson to thoroughly investigate everyone individually
On July 07 2012 01:14 Keirathi wrote:
I felt it was my job to make a thorough investigation of everyone with "what-if goggles"
On July 07 2012 03:50 Keirathi wrote:
I feel sure we have at least 1 more [blue role]
As far as my first check, you can see in my notes that I had him as my second highest %, but once the day started I barely mentioned him except when I was specifically replying to Hopeless's post, and then I mentioned that I was giving him the BOTD and not pursuing his case.
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EBWOP: As far as who I think is scummiest, I'm leaning towards Iamperfection right now. I'll take another look through him and Hopeless tonight and decide on who I would want to push.
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Okay I'm back earlier than I said I'd be. I'd like everyone to role claim before the end of the first 24 hours if possible. (17ish hours from now?) Promethelax seemed fine with the idea. Does anyone have an issue with this?
The biggest defence I have right now is my suspicions of Umlaut as he's the most involved in sealing the deal. If he was scum, his gambit could never have worked the way he described (as Prom pointed out), but everyone is using that as the final piece of the puzzle to peg me as scum.
This only works if AmericanUmlaut is town, which is in no way confirmed by any checks. We have only our reads as far as I know, so my only way out is to convince you he's scummier than me. In his scum-list post (+ Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 20:53 AmericanUmlaut wrote:The lurking PBUThere are currently four posters whose activity levels are low enough that I'd characterize them as lurking: Intact, BobTheLob, Blind-Rawr and iamperfection all have less than a page of posts, which is very little considering the amount of discussion that went on prior to the game actually starting. There are three PBUs. If they are playing intelligently, they will have noticed from the beginning that this game has had a fairly large number of lurkers, and one of them will be chilling among them and doing their best to just scoot by. It's possible that two scum are lurking, but I would guess that the others are among the more active posters because having only a single active community member puts you in a bad position if that player gets lynched; the PBUs lose their ability to manipulate debate, and one of the previous lurkers trying to establish their voice afterward is obviously scummy play. I think that my logic for concluding that at least one of the four low-post players is a PBU is strategically sound. Ideally we would flush them out by getting the other three to start posting more analysis, but I think it's clear at this point that we're going to have to win this with a couple of low-content players amongst us, which means we need to figure out which of the lurkers is most likely our PBU. We have little to go on, but let's take a look at what's available: iamperfection: His posting day 1 was worthless. Since day 2 has begun, he's started to participate, albeit in a very low-key manner. I'd like to see more thought-out posts from him, but I'm leaning toward his being one of the good guys and just unsure of how to play as the game got going. BobTheLob: His posting day 1 was worthless. His posting day 2 is worthless. My read is entirely worthless, because he's not playing. In an environment where everyone was being super productive and he was just posting about how drunk he is, I'd say let Kwark pop him, but I feel like the odds are too good that he's actually just a really awful town player to take that risk. Blind-RawR: Also posting so little actual analysis that it's hard to make any kind of useful read. However, Hopeless1der's case against him is such a stretch that my conclusion is that it's almost certainly a clumsy attempt at provoking another mislynch and that Blind_RawR is thus probably town. Which leaves us with: Intact: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. This is basically Intact's first move of the game: A vague reference to how maybe JH and Anacletus might both be scum, but presented in such a way that it's easy to distance yourself from later on. I acknowledge that I responded with agreement that this could be a useful bit of analysis if one of them flipped red, but knowing that both were town makes this look like an attempt to get discussion moving toward a mislynch. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. I really don't see anything suspicious about Promethelax's case against Fencer. I think I'm not alone when I say that he's around the top of the suspects list at the moment. What about Promethelax's analysis of Fencer's play seemed suspicious? This seems like an attempt to just sow dissent without any real logic behind it. And then comes this brilliant observation: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Anacletus was, in fact, one of the good guys. We banned him. By what logic are we now able to confirm some townies? This post is just stupid, and to me it stinks of someone who is playing with the full information that a PBU has, and hasn't thought through the logic of the limited information environment that we town players are in enough to fake logical conclusions that sound like they were made by a townie. Summary: Four players (25% of the game population) are posting at barely-there levels, which leads me to conclude that at least one PBU is almost certainly hiding among them. An analysis of the few posts that they have made leads me to conclude that Intact is by far the most suspicious among them. The scumteam I currently have in mind is Intact, hopeless1der and Fencer710. Of the three, I feel the most strongly about Intact and hopeless1der; I feel like Fencer could conceivable be really bad and having a panicky reaction to being suspected. If anyone could help me analyze the way those three have interacted to argue either in favor of or against my hypothesis, I'd really appreciate the help.
Since my claim, he hasn't even tried to build up any more of a case on me, he's relying on the fact that his gambit was 100% guaranteed.
The last thing about Umlaut that is suspicious to me: Look at the day 1 votes
On July 01 2012 06:10 ghost_403 wrote:
Day 1 Final Vote Count:
Anacletus (7): BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact, iamperfection, Myles, Promethelax
Intact (1): Anacletus
Fencer710 (1): Hopeless1der
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, JingleHell
Not Voted: NrGmonk
Anacletus has been lynched Day 1. NrGmonk will be replaced for failing to vote.
Of the players that did NOT vote for Anacletus, two are alive. Me and Umlaut. I don't think all three scum would have voted for Anacletus. I'm of the impression that one of us is scum. I've made my claim as VT. I expect I have exhausted
@Promethelax, The reason I specifically wanted you to review my claim was that you've been getting a scummy read of me mainly from Jingle before his NK on Night1. I feel like you've had me as scum the longest, or at least were committed to it first when it was mainly based on my Day1 posting. Knowing that I was breadcrumbing (apparently meaningless things, but nevertheless...) and the first half of Day 1 was not my most productive posting, it may influence your read on me enough to move me into "not first" on your scum list.
Since Milton has been NK'd, I'd also like you to review this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=19#377
In your discussions with Jingle, you made note that we might be casting suspicion without repercussions due to the votes on Anacletus at the time, and it would be easier for us to "look less scummy if the other flips." Fencar/Miltonkram have since flipped town. I don't know if that makes me look more scummy or less scummy at this point, but the situation is different than the read you previously had and I'd like you to revisit it with the information we have now.
On July 08 2012 06:11 Keirathi wrote:I was roleblocked
...You gotta be fucking kidding me dude. My day is ruined. I wish someone would counter-claim this.
As a note on my breadcrumbing of things:
There wasn't really a purpose to me breadcrumbing things as I had no role, I was attempting to practice or something like that in the event I got a blue in another game. I'm likely to make myself look retarded, but man I'm desperate to do something to make people think twice about me. Going through my filter from the start of the game, if you take every capitalized letter (except from green text) I spell :
TITLE VANILLA TOWNIE AND YOU ARE AUF WIEDERSEHEN INITIATIVE HAIDEHP-->Nonsense from this point
The "auf wiedersehen" was a reference to Umlaut who I was going to try to get lynched for lurking if he didn't show up Day1.
He started posting before I finished, but I figured what the hell why not? To not look like a spammy retarded scummy player is why not, so kudos to me for being a tard and setting myself up for failure.
If I was scum, why breadcrumb like this instead of pretending to hide a blue claim to go back to later on? There is practically no merit to what I did, just the risk of looking stupid/scummy, of which I probably look both at the moment.
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EBWOP: Paragraph after Vote-Count quote
I expect I have exhausted Umlaut's filter without trying to make a scumslip out of everything he did, so I'd like to see what he claims before tunnelling him any more than I already have.
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I just thought of something I would like to mention: if Au and Prom are such global town reads, where's the benefit to the mafia to leave them alive? They've been two of the more active people, and have presented cases on nearly everyone.
I know thats a bit WIFOM, but its really, really fishy to me.
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On July 08 2012 14:12 Keirathi wrote:
I just thought of something I would like to mention: if Au and Prom are such global town reads, where's the benefit to the mafia to leave them alive? They've been two of the more active people, and have presented cases on nearly everyone.
I know thats a bit WIFOM, but its really, really fishy to me.
It's a reasonable point, actually, but what I look at the kills, Milton doesn't seem like such a crazy break from the PBUs' pattern.
Night 1: JingleHell - by far the best contributor to the conversation up to that point, also had more game experience than the rest of us.
Night 2: sciberbia, who had just subbed in, had more game experience than the rest of us and was contributing well.
Night 3: Miltoncram, who had just subbed in, had four previous games worth of experience, and was already posting reads and contributing well.
I was personally expecting Promethelax to be the next kill, for exactly the reason you said, but I could imagine two motivations for going after Milton instead:
- Milton had just posted a well-written case on iamperfection that we haven't discussed much more yet. The kill could be a defense of iamperfection, or (of course) an attempt to look like a defense and push a mislynch on iamperfection.
- I can't imagine I was the only person who say Promethelax as the most logical next target. Given the possibility that there's still a medic among us, going after him might have been seen as too big a risk of getting blocked.
The two combined actually make Milton a pretty good target for a night kill. He's less likely to be defended, we've been giving newly subbed-in players BotD, and Fencar after his resignation seemed actually pretty unlikely to have been a PBU, which made him probably the least likely mislynch candidate. In fact, if they have faith in Keirathi's work thus far, they may have even considered Promethelax and myself to be better chances at getting a mislynch than Milton.
Another possibility, which I consider less likely, is that Promethelax really is scum and has been playing brilliantly (obviously I have proof for my own part that I'm town). I would say that we should return to the possibility and give him a harder look if we are at a loss for better scum reads. Our priority for today, though, is to survive one more day, and that requires that we lynch the best scumread we have. At the moment, my opinion is that that is Hopeless1der -- not just because of my hammer trap; that was just the cherry on top of a delicious scumcake.
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On July 08 2012 17:19 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
In fact, if they have faith in Keirathi's work thus far, they may have even considered Promethelax and myself to be better chances at getting a mislynch than Milton.
Another possibility, which I consider less likely, is that Promethelax really is scum and has been playing brilliantly (obviously I have proof for my own part that I'm town). I would say that we should return to the possibility and give him a harder look if we are at a loss for better scum reads. Our priority for today, though, is to survive one more day, and that requires that we lynch the best scumread we have. At the moment, my opinion is that that is Hopeless1der -- not just because of my hammer trap; that was just the cherry on top of a delicious scumcake.
I highly doubt that. At least 4 out of the 7 players have shown some support for one or the other of you. Fencar/Milton was still a null at best, I think.
As far as this scenario: it makes very, very little sense. If Prom is scum, there's virtually 0 chance that Hopeless is too. So do you believe that Prom could be scum or not? This is something you can't wait until later to decide if you plan to vote for Hopeless.
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So is everyone gone? Is anyone else going to Role-Claim?
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I apologize for not posting, family shit came up. It's all good now though. I'm surprised that Keirathi role-claimed but whatever if he's lying we can't do much about it right now. We still don't have a consensus on who's scum but I'm leaning towards Perfection for mostly the reasons said earlier but also he hasn't posted in 3 pages except to ask for a vote count(mind neither have I but as I said something came up.).
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On July 09 2012 03:12 Hopeless1der wrote:
So is everyone gone? Is anyone else going to Role-Claim?
I've been thinking about this, and I'm not sure that mass role-claim is actually a good move. If we're playing to win, just getting a lynch today can't be our only goal - we have to have a situation where we can continue to get good lynches with no mislynches for two more days after that. Is the information we get from the mass role-claim enough to balance painting a target on whatever blues we have?
Consider this: If Keirathi is scum, he's lying about his role (which was conveniently blocked when it could have been most useful to us). The PBUs all know whether he's lying or not. If we really go for a mass role-claim, at least one or two of the claims is absolutely certain to be a lie that we basically can't confirm, but the PBUs know who's lying. I think mass role-call is anti-town, as it generates a priority hit list for the scum players and doesn't necessarily generate any trustworthy information for town.
Just consider the situation we're already in: If Keirathi is actually town, the PBUs have no real reason to even night kill him any more, because in that case I can't see a reason that he'd lie about being roleblocked, and he'll spend the rest of the game roleblocked. I fully expect that he'll survive indefinitely now, because as long as he stays alive and keeps saying he's roleblocked, his claim is completely worthless to us. In that case, his role-claim has given us only the information that Myles is either town or a godfather. If he hadn't role-claimed, the PBUs wouldn't know if they'd blocked anything and might not keep him blocked in future nights.
On the other hand, if he's scum, his role-claim has (to the extent that we listen to him) only hurt town by introducing more unconfirmable misinformation. If we ask every player to role-claim, we're creating the same situation for every player.
I say let's leave the decision to role-claim or not to role-claim in the hands of the individual player. If you feel that claiming and coming forward with information you've gathered is of benefit to our cause, then by all means do so. If you feel that our chances of getting three lynches in a row are improved by keeping in the shadows and waiting a bit longer, then do that.
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Yea getting roleblocked really hurt my claim. I was really counting on having the information on Hopeless because that would have given information on multiple people rather than just the one. I was so worried about getting the one confirmation that I had out there that I never even thought about what would happen if I was roleblocked.
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Its lynch or lose. Why take the risk at this point in the game of not mass claiming. Do everything possible to NOT LOSE right now. Umlaut you're saying we should keep ourselves in the dark and rely on just the information we currently have, while Scum have an information advantage. Look how that method has worked out for town so far. We haven't hit one scum yet. That argument is complete bull. The biggest downside to not claiming is I'm going to end up lynched and town will lose the game. But that's exactly what you want, isn't it Umlaut? We're supposed to play WIFOM for the rest of the day instead of just claiming and discussing things with as open a table as we can. That sounds like a superb plan for scum to keep town in the dark.
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On July 09 2012 06:57 Keirathi wrote:
Yea getting roleblocked really hurt my claim. I was really counting on having the information on Hopeless because that would have given information on multiple people rather than just the one. I was so worried about getting the one confirmation that I had out there that I never even thought about what would happen if I was roleblocked.
Is this poor play or a scum claim? How does a townie with an active blue role forget about the possibility of a role block? Sure, some roles can't be blocked but the active ones all suffer from that possibility just to balance the game. I have a hard time believing that you didn't take this into account, ah well, you aren't my number one scum read. But if I am right and Hopeless is scum you are the clear follow-up, unless you give us a real read the next night (which is backed up by either a tracker or a watcher, if we have a tracker I would urge him to track Kier to be able to counter his claim of checking someone in case it is false) or are NK'd
On July 09 2012 07:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
Its lynch or lose. Why take the risk at this point in the game of not mass claiming. Do everything possible to NOT LOSE right now. Umlaut you're saying we should keep ourselves in the dark and rely on just the information we currently have, while Scum have an information advantage. Look how that method has worked out for town so far. We haven't hit one scum yet. That argument is complete bull. The biggest downside to not claiming is I'm going to end up lynched and town will lose the game. But that's exactly what you want, isn't it Umlaut? We're supposed to play WIFOM for the rest of the day instead of just claiming and discussing things with as open a table as we can. That sounds like a superb plan for scum to keep town in the dark.
My problem with this is that in theory I agree with it, we need to lynch right today and any additional knowledge helps us to do that. We also do still need to get two correct lynches after this and having confirmed power roles basically tells scum who to shoot which makes our job harder. I've been thinking about it a lot and I think that all information roles with something to add should claim (everyone has something to add). Any non-information blues (medic, vet, etc) should not claim unless they are in danger. Later in the day the others should come forward if they feel it is necessary just to narrow our lynch targets onto those non-blue players.
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On July 09 2012 09:20 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 06:57 Keirathi wrote:
Yea getting roleblocked really hurt my claim. I was really counting on having the information on Hopeless because that would have given information on multiple people rather than just the one. I was so worried about getting the one confirmation that I had out there that I never even thought about what would happen if I was roleblocked. Is this poor play or a scum claim? How does a townie with an active blue role forget about the possibility of a role block? Sure, some roles can't be blocked but the active ones all suffer from that possibility just to balance the game. I have a hard time believing that you didn't take this into account, ah well, you aren't my number one scum read. But if I am right and Hopeless is scum you are the clear follow-up, unless you give us a real read the next night (which is backed up by either a tracker or a watcher, if we have a tracker I would urge him to track Kier to be able to counter his claim of checking someone in case it is false) or are NK'd
I just didn't think it through very well. I misjudged my odds of actually being roleblocked because I was late getting home from work and was trying to get my claim post out before the night ended. Mafia got lucky, I got unlucky.
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I agree with Prom about the role claims. Medic/Vet roles don't really help us even if they're claimed, Unfortunately, his schedule is probably going to force him to vote me before he leaves for work. I sincerely hope something I've said has made him think twice about it because its just about game over otherwise. I've already made my claim so there won't be any last minute blue claim from me. Just a good ol' green flip.
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After mulling over this absolutely as much as I can stand, I believe that my vote today is going to go to AmericanUmlaut.
On top of the arguments Hopeless made + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 03:24 Hopeless1der wrote:Unfortunately our strongest reads have either flipped town or have been replaced, so its hard to stick to the case on Fencar/Miltonkram, or to build a solid case on BLiND-RawR/Keirathi. Fencar was decisively anti-town, but perhaps not scum. I know JH and others were adamantly against lynching when I wasn't certain of scum, but if I can't confidently identify scum, I'd rather lynch anti-town behavior on the chance that I get scum, which is what I view Fencar's play as. If my reasons or reads are not good enough, I'm trusting the rest of town to point out the scummier player to me when I don't see it. The most suspicious person I've identified based on the way the game has progressed is AmericanUmlaut. While he's been active, he hasn't posted very detailed reads. He also backed the Intact case, essentially copying mine and expanding on it, but never actually acknowledged that I'd made a case. In addition, the way his "Lurker PBU" Post went, he completely brushed off the actual lurkers in favor of the case he really wanted to discuss. He was also involved in both mislynches, but switched his vote Day1 after the bandwagon had started to roll. His vote was against me, but he has never really gone into any detail about his read on me, just piggy backing JH's case from Day1. This suspicion hasn't been addressed by him, but he's carried it through at the end of his Intact case, which as I've pointed out came AFTER mine: + Show Spoiler +On July 02 2012 20:53 AmericanUmlaut wrote:The lurking PBUThere are currently four posters whose activity levels are low enough that I'd characterize them as lurking: Intact, BobTheLob, Blind-Rawr and iamperfection all have less than a page of posts, which is very little considering the amount of discussion that went on prior to the game actually starting. There are three PBUs. If they are playing intelligently, they will have noticed from the beginning that this game has had a fairly large number of lurkers, and one of them will be chilling among them and doing their best to just scoot by. It's possible that two scum are lurking, but I would guess that the others are among the more active posters because having only a single active community member puts you in a bad position if that player gets lynched; the PBUs lose their ability to manipulate debate, and one of the previous lurkers trying to establish their voice afterward is obviously scummy play. I think that my logic for concluding that at least one of the four low-post players is a PBU is strategically sound. Ideally we would flush them out by getting the other three to start posting more analysis, but I think it's clear at this point that we're going to have to win this with a couple of low-content players amongst us, which means we need to figure out which of the lurkers is most likely our PBU. We have little to go on, but let's take a look at what's available: iamperfection: His posting day 1 was worthless. Since day 2 has begun, he's started to participate, albeit in a very low-key manner. I'd like to see more thought-out posts from him, but I'm leaning toward his being one of the good guys and just unsure of how to play as the game got going. BobTheLob: His posting day 1 was worthless. His posting day 2 is worthless. My read is entirely worthless, because he's not playing. In an environment where everyone was being super productive and he was just posting about how drunk he is, I'd say let Kwark pop him, but I feel like the odds are too good that he's actually just a really awful town player to take that risk. Blind-RawR: Also posting so little actual analysis that it's hard to make any kind of useful read. However, Hopeless1der's case against him is such a stretch that my conclusion is that it's almost certainly a clumsy attempt at provoking another mislynch and that Blind_RawR is thus probably town. Which leaves us with: Intact: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. This is basically Intact's first move of the game: A vague reference to how maybe JH and Anacletus might both be scum, but presented in such a way that it's easy to distance yourself from later on. I acknowledge that I responded with agreement that this could be a useful bit of analysis if one of them flipped red, but knowing that both were town makes this look like an attempt to get discussion moving toward a mislynch. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. I really don't see anything suspicious about Promethelax's case against Fencer. I think I'm not alone when I say that he's around the top of the suspects list at the moment. What about Promethelax's analysis of Fencer's play seemed suspicious? This seems like an attempt to just sow dissent without any real logic behind it. And then comes this brilliant observation: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Anacletus was, in fact, one of the good guys. We banned him. By what logic are we now able to confirm some townies? This post is just stupid, and to me it stinks of someone who is playing with the full information that a PBU has, and hasn't thought through the logic of the limited information environment that we town players are in enough to fake logical conclusions that sound like they were made by a townie. Summary: Four players (25% of the game population) are posting at barely-there levels, which leads me to conclude that at least one PBU is almost certainly hiding among them. An analysis of the few posts that they have made leads me to conclude that Intact is by far the most suspicious among them. The scumteam I currently have in mind is Intact, hopeless1der and Fencer710. Of the three, I feel the most strongly about Intact and hopeless1der; I feel like Fencer could conceivable be really bad and having a panicky reaction to being suspected. If anyone could help me analyze the way those three have interacted to argue either in favor of or against my hypothesis, I'd really appreciate the help. Regarding the bolded in the last paragraph of the quoted post above...serious conflicting ideas there considering I'd just posted a large case that unfortunately contributed to lunching a VT. He completely agreed with my case though, even if he never referenced it. Since then he still kind of keeps my scumminess on his backburner but never addresses the case against me, and it feels like hes waiting for someone to bring it back up so he can jump on it. I'm stuck in null-read (I hope) limbo and I feel like I'm an easy bandwagon target so I'm very suspicious of his play regarding the case on me. Once Keirathi posted his detailed read of the thread so far, Umlaut felt it was necessary to piece-by-piece defend himself but has been pretty mute on the course of events otherwise. This isn't pro-town and sounds like he just wants to deflate Keirathi's contribution so that we end up with less credible information. Then again, so did Promethelax, and I'm watching him a bit more closely now, but I don't feel Keirathi's read on him is as strong as he's made it out to be. In addition, Prom didn't really attack Keirathi's post, and felt like a much calmer, reasoned defense than the tone of AmericanUmlaut's. FoS: AmericanUmlaut There is still the issue of Fencar/Miltonkram's case to look at...I guess I'll wait until Milton has a chance to catch up? Or possibly what turns up after the NK. There isn't anything new to pursue on Fencar aside from drawing arbitrary conclusions on why he chose to give up and that is not worth it to me. We're kind of forced to push that case based on what we had before Milton came in or else we lose a lot of our previous reads based on Fencar's behavior-related scumminess because Milton now has the opportunity to correct it even if he turns out to be scum.
1) Besides 2 of his "scumteam" flipping green already, he used Promethelax's scumteam verbatim.
2) JH was suspicious of him Day 1 and was NK'd on N1. Not that that is conclusive evidence, but it is circumstantial evidence, and something to keep in mind.
3) He got very defensive as soon as I mentioned him in my notes, despite giving him a light read.
4) His unvote yesterday only makes sense if Hopeless was scum, which I don't believe at this point. The fact that it didn't work leads me to believe that at least one of Prom/UA were scum, so the "gambit" was just show to buy town cred.
5) The thing that really sealed the deal for me, though, was Hopeless's argument about the votes on Anacletus day 1. When you put that on top of everything else, it pushes him to scum read for me.
After UA, the only other person I would feel comfortable voting for today would be iamperfection.
1) Extremely non-committal all game until:
2) Conveniently showed up on the MYLO day and gave his only really big read and push for someone.
3) Again, back to Hopeless's argument about votes: if you assume that mafia were trying to avoid putting all 3 of themselves on the Intact bandwagon, then perfection is the only person still in the game who didn't vote for Intact. (Well, I guess BlinD wasn't on the Intact vote either, but he also only had 1 post in all of day2 and didn't make a vote at all).
4) The death of Milton right after he made the read on perfection is fishy, but again, not concrete evidence, just circumstantial.
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Day 4 Vote Count:
Not Voted: Everyone
With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Currently, no one is set to be lynched Day 4. 7 hours remain in Day 4.
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As your probably gathered either by reading my filter or my lack of an early post I don't work on mondays.
That said I also won't be around all day since it is my day off and my family is coming to visit us next week, house cleaning sucks.
I'm going to spend some time looking into filters and making sure that my, hopefully not, last vote is for scum. Since it is do or die today I'm going
Kier: if you are around could you explain to me why AU is no more scum than me? I see the reasons you posted but they don't seem sufficient to make a 45% change in his scumminess. Maybe a 25% bu nothing so drastic as to make me totally positive that I will rest the fate of town on him being scum. How did I drop two (or more) spaces in your scum hierarchy? You aren't even comfortable pushing your scummiest read (me) from yesterday when we're in a lylo situation.
What I'm saying is: where does this inconsistency come from?
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And, in addition to that how did Hopeless become townie in your eyes? You had him as a scum read when you first showed up and are claiming to have investigated him last night without result. Why are you no longer willing to vote for him when he was a top 3 scum read? Of your other top threes you investigated 1 who came back green and you have deiced, it appears, that I am town as well. There is nothing in your filter to suggest why you changed your mind about Hopeless' play from scum to town and that worries me since Hopeless has been a scum read for just about the whole game and he keeps no getting lynched. Since he is probably scum and certainly still my best scum read your soft defense of him isn't working for me.
Explanation please.
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Hopeless and Keir, your attempt to push a mislynch against me through is really transparent, and I don't think it's going to work.
Yesterday I was a 30 on the Keir Scale of Scumminess, today I'm scummier than Promethelax? And that completely without explanation? As Prom pointed out, that just doesn't make any sense. Are you planning to offer us townies an explanation? As far as I can tell, you were pretty much certain that Promethelax was scum, and you haven't posted anything that indicates that your opinion on that matter has changed. And I've jumped from 30% to 76% or more because I responded to what you considered "scummy" about me in your poo-flinging post? That's.... strange, to say the least. Shouldn't everyone in that post who had debated with someone who called them out for scummy behavior have had at least 46%?
I'm still pretty torn on which of you should be taken out first, but I no longer have any doubts that you're both scum and working together. For lack of a good reason one way or the other, I'm voting that we take out Hopeless tonight in memory of our dear departed JingleHell, who knew from day one that he was up to no good.
##Vote Hopeless1der
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Oh, I totally forgot to point out the laughable nature of the whole deal around my vote on Anacletus day 1. I was completely clear at the time that I thought it was beneficial to town day 1 to have everyone vote and switch their votes as the debate progressed as a way of forcing opinions on the table. I did exactly that.
You're basically saying that I must be scum because I voted for Anacletus third, after Fencar (twice) and Intact. Based on your logic, Fencar and Intact must both be pretty scummy, right? Except they both flipped green, oops. After me came BlinD-RawR (that would be you, Keirathi), then Bob, then JingleHell. Of those listed, JingleHell and I switched to Hopeless1der, unfortunately without enough support to change the day 1 ban.
The whole argument makes no sense. I'm scummy because I behaved very similarly to no fewer than three confirmed town players? Why couldn't scum have spent the whole game making arguments this dumb? We'd have won by now.
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On July 09 2012 23:58 Promethelax wrote:
Kier: if you are around could you explain to me why AU is no more scum than me? I see the reasons you posted but they don't seem sufficient to make a 45% change in his scumminess. Maybe a 25% bu nothing so drastic as to make me totally positive that I will rest the fate of town on him being scum. How did I drop two (or more) spaces in your scum hierarchy? You aren't even comfortable pushing your scummiest read (me) from yesterday when we're in a lylo situation.
What I'm saying is: where does this inconsistency come from?
I don't necessarily think he is scummier than you. I also don't think I'm a good enough debater/convincing enough to get people that have shown you support all game to vote for you. The longer you stay alive, the scummier you seem, so while I feel you and AU and approx. the same read right now, I'm a bit more comfortable voting him today than you.
If you really want, I can lay out my full case against you, too, though.
On July 10 2012 00:12 Promethelax wrote:
And, in addition to that how did Hopeless become townie in your eyes? You had him as a scum read when you first showed up and are claiming to have investigated him last night without result. Why are you no longer willing to vote for him when he was a top 3 scum read? Of your other top threes you investigated 1 who came back green and you have deiced, it appears, that I am town as well. There is nothing in your filter to suggest why you changed your mind about Hopeless' play from scum to town and that worries me since Hopeless has been a scum read for just about the whole game and he keeps no getting lynched. Since he is probably scum and certainly still my best scum read your soft defense of him isn't working for me.
Explanation please.
I dunno, its hard to explain. His recent posting reeks of...desperation? But basically my whole scumread on him was based on his Day 1 actions, and there's virtually nothing since then that really feels scummy. I haven't completely dismissed him, but for now I'm not voting for him.
As far as my percentages changing, my reads were from Day1+Night1+Day2+half of Night2. Now I've been playing for another Half of Night2+Day3+Night3+Day4. There's basically double the information now.
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AmericanUmlaut wrote:
You're basically saying that I must be scum because I voted for Anacletus third, after Fencar (twice) and Intact. Based on your logic, Fencar and Intact must both be pretty scummy, right? Except they both flipped green, oops.
Other people being bad doesn't excuse *YOU* being bad. Although, I'm not really saying you're scum because you voted for Anacletus, I'm saying you're scum because you didn't vote for Anacletus. I don't think all 3 scum were on the Anacletus vote, and you and Hopeless are the only 2 still alive who weren't voting for him.
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On July 10 2012 02:00 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +AmericanUmlaut wrote:
You're basically saying that I must be scum because I voted for Anacletus third, after Fencar (twice) and Intact. Based on your logic, Fencar and Intact must both be pretty scummy, right? Except they both flipped green, oops.
Other people being bad doesn't excuse *YOU* being bad. Although, I'm not really saying you're scum because you voted for Anacletus, I'm saying you're scum because you didn't vote for Anacletus. I don't think all 3 scum were on the Anacletus vote, and you and Hopeless are the only 2 still alive who weren't voting for him.
...therefore vote Hopeless since he is scum.
Yeah, this wishwashy crap from Kier has to go. Because of his claim I don't want to lynch him on the off chance (<10% in my mind) that he is telling the truth since if he really is dt we need him to win this game. Hopeless on the other hand has been playing scummy all along and Kier, my other high scum read, is now defending him after attacking him to create distance but not voting for him.
I'll be voting Hopeless today and I'm confidant that we'll be on the right track to win this game after he is gone. Next up will be Kier unless he comes out with some brilliant reads coupled with dt investigation. His whole play has been full of shenanigans at this point investigating Myles instead of me his first night...I was his scummiest read and a player who all of you had as a town read. If he had looked at me to get a check on night one he would either know I was town and start to listen to me or know I was scum, claim and get me lynched which would be a huge win for town. Instead he checked Myles who, even if he was scum wasn't doing much so getting him lynched would not impact the scum team in a major way (unless he agrees with whoever said that the scum power roles are lurkers).
So, with the inconsistencies in Kier's play and the scummy way Hopeless has been playing I am going to vote for Hopeless. Kier has put too much into the defense of Hopeless which makes me feel that Hopeless is more important to the mafia team. That only makes sense if he has a power role so I'm going to lynch Hopeless and next cycle Kier. Which will give us two dead scum and only one left to find.
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oh, yeah, I forgot:
##: Vote: Hopeless1der
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On July 10 2012 02:12 Promethelax wrote:
...therefore vote Hopeless since he is scum.
I already said my entire scum read of Hopeless was based on day 1. His day 1 play was bad, I admit. His play since has been anything but.
Umlaut is the opposite. His early play was basically just blending in. The later the game has gone, the more scummy he has seemed, and when you add in his day 1 vote as an after-thought, it makes perfect sense if he is scum.
On July 10 2012 02:12 Promethelax wrote:
Yeah, this wishwashy crap from Kier has to go. Because of his claim I don't want to lynch him on the off chance (<10% in my mind) that he is telling the truth since if he really is dt we need him to win this game. Hopeless on the other hand has been playing scummy all along and Kier, my other high scum read, is now defending him after attacking him to create distance but not voting for him.
Wishywashy crap? I literally have DOUBLE the information now. I'm not going to stick with my first read just because it was my first read, Mr. "99% sure Fencer is scum".
On July 10 2012 02:12 Promethelax wrote:
I'll be voting Hopeless today and I'm confidant that we'll be on the right track to win this game after he is gone. Next up will be Kier unless he comes out with some brilliant reads coupled with dt investigation. His whole play has been full of shenanigans at this point investigating Myles instead of me his first night...I was his scummiest read and a player who all of you had as a town read. If he had looked at me to get a check on night one he would either know I was town and start to listen to me or know I was scum, claim and get me lynched which would be a huge win for town. Instead he checked Myles who, even if he was scum wasn't doing much so getting him lynched would not impact the scum team in a major way (unless he agrees with whoever said that the scum power roles are lurkers).
I investigated Myles because my case against you was much more solid than my case against him. I just haven't felt like I was able to get you lynched yet.
And I investigated Hopeless because it would give us information on him, you, AND Umlaut, which is obviously preferable to just investigating you.
On July 10 2012 02:12 Promethelax wrote:
So, with the inconsistencies in Kier's play and the scummy way Hopeless has been playing I am going to vote for Hopeless. Kier has put too much into the defense of Hopeless which makes me feel that Hopeless is more important to the mafia team. That only makes sense if he has a power role so I'm going to lynch Hopeless and next cycle Kier. Which will give us two dead scum and only one left to find.
Too much into my defense of Hopeless? Literally all I've said was I think his play post-day1 has been pro-town.
You and Umlaut have literally had each other's back for 2+ days, and even posted the EXACT SAME scumteam, in which 2 of the 3 have flipped town. That's just too convenient.
Anyways, its interesting that this game is going to come down to the lurkers deciding who to vote.
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Well Kier was right on one thing: it is on you lurkers.
Come through for town and vote Hopeless.
I can't imagine what Myles, Bob and Imperfection are doing. Guys: we need you in here, don't lurk. Post post post! We have to get scum in the next four hours! We can do it and all that has to happen is for two of the three of you to vote Hopeless to give us a chance in this game, don't let Keir's scum tactics sway you. Vote Hopeless.
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On July 10 2012 03:04 Promethelax wrote:
don't let Keir's scum tactics sway you.
Still trying to buy town cred all the way to the end, eh?
At least you're consistent I guess. Entirely wrong, but consistently wrong.
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On July 10 2012 03:16 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 03:04 Promethelax wrote:
don't let Keir's scum tactics sway you. Still trying to buy town cred all the way to the end, eh? At least you're consistent I guess. Entirely wrong, but consistently wrong.
Its cute how you try to fight it when you know you've lost, you are scum and everyone knows it. After we lynch Hopeless we'll lynch you.
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After you lynch me, the game is over.
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I still think it's Perfection but a nolynch will kill us just as well...
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On July 10 2012 03:35 BobTheLob wrote:
Vote count please?
Current vote count for day 4:
AmericanUmlaut (1): Hopeless1der
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
With 7 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch. 2 hours and 15 minutes remain
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On July 10 2012 03:19 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 03:16 Keirathi wrote:On July 10 2012 03:04 Promethelax wrote:
don't let Keir's scum tactics sway you. Still trying to buy town cred all the way to the end, eh? At least you're consistent I guess. Entirely wrong, but consistently wrong. Its cute how you try to fight it when you know you've lost, you are scum and everyone knows it. After we lynch Hopeless we'll lynch you.
I know I'm not scum. I don't know about Hopeless, but I don't believe he is.
You and Umlaut have put entirely too much defense into each other's baskest, so to speak. If you are in fact both townies, how are your reads on each other so perfect and unwavering when you take into account just how terrible the rest of both of your reads have been this game?
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I've decided to wait and vote on the person with the most votes in 1 hour, not much else I can do.
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On July 10 2012 03:52 BobTheLob wrote:
I've decided to wait and vote on the person with the most votes in 1 hour, not much else I can do.
What?
...
This game gets more frustrating every day. If you're not interested in going through people's filters and coming to your own conclusions, why bother playing? We really need people giving their thoughts, analyzing our cases and pointiing out the flaws. This is a super complicated logic game, we need all the brains in it picking over all the available information and helping us come to reasonable conclusions. Just voting for whoever has the most votes is... Bleargh...
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By no means does that condemn them both, but since Keirathi is so intent on not having me killed, he can't be scum (to me). That makes his DT check more credible (to me). Therefore, Myles, Keirathi and myself are town. (Myles might be Godfather, I'm pretty much counting on the fact that he is not here.)
That means that all three scum are between bob, perfection, umlaut and promethelax. Only one of those 4 can be town.
Bob just had a chance to basically say that he agrees with Prom/Umlaut and come very close to winning for scum. The fact that he didn't means that hes either not scum or they're concerned that they won't be able to get perfection to vote for me.
I'd like to believe bob is town as he just hasn't felt like scum to me.
Myles' vote is still in the air, but if he reads this post and agrees that I may not be town, we may have this in the bag without needing the information roles to claim anyways.
And pre-post edit to Bob's post on not voting yet: Well I can't really blame you for not voting yet bob, but at the very least you're going for a majority lynch. Can't fault you too much for that, but if you can go through the last couple pages of the thread and see if you can make a read on whether you think I'm scum or not.
If we don't get a majority lynch we are almost certainly going to lose, but you can still post a read to help sway the vote to who you think is the scummier player.
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Hopeless1der wrote:
Keirathi is so intent on not having me killed
I'm intent on not having you killed today. If we were both down to the last day, with 1 scum left, I would have another hard look at you. But I don't see this game playing out like that, so its a pretty moot point.
BobTheLob wrote:
I've decided to wait and vote on the person with the most votes in 1 hour, not much else I can do.
This is the most frustrating thing I've heard yet. Make up your mind, make a case. If you weren't going to put effort in, why did you sign up?
As far as my vote, I'm going to stick with UA. It really doesn't make sense that both he and Prom are still alive if they are both townies, and the unvote gambit really just felt like a big show to gain town cred. If you assume that at least one of the 3 people in that vote/unvote were scum, the better odds are on the side with 2 people than the side with one. Add on the fact that basically the entire case against Hopeless is day 1 and the gambit, I'm just not buying it for now.
##Vote AmericanUmlaut
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Also another thing I would like to point out in my defense as being DT:
If I was scum fake claiming DT, why would I claim that I was roleblocked? Why wouldn't I buy some cred with another townie (since I know who the townies are), and say they were innocent? I only have to get 1 person lynched to win, so if I can buy credibility with 2 people instead of just 1, why wouldn't I? It would make my job easier.
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I've given my reads. Perfection hasn't said anything in a while and in my opinion that's pretty scummy but not only that I'm getting annoyed at the fact that the scum are able to hide so well, I said earlier that Prome could be scum and was ignored, only now are people realizing that he's been pretty scummy since early on in the game. People are getting annoyed at me just majority voting and I get that but it's the only thing I can think of to do, in the past day nothing has changed, people who didn't post still are not posting and people who did still are. What I could say in the next hour wouldn't change anything.
In the end I still will vote for the majority but till then
##Vote Promethelax
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What you could say can always have an impact on the game, its practically the entire purpose of the game. If you don't explain why you are doing something and rely strictly on majority voting, what happens if the voting is tied 3-3 between me and Umlaut and you're the tie-breaker?
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I would Vote you, the arguments are much better against you then against Ulmaut as well despite me liking you more.
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BobTheLob wrote:
I said earlier that Prome could be scum and was ignored, only now are people realizing that he's been pretty scummy since early on in the game.
+ Show Spoiler +Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better.
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On July 10 2012 04:19 Keirathi wrote:
If I was scum fake claiming DT, why would I claim that I was roleblocked?
If you were a real DT, why wouldn't you know and share the results of your first night's investigations?
If Keirathi were (hypothetically speaking) a DT, wouldn't he have been given his predecessor's reads upon taking over his slot?
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On July 10 2012 04:34 BobTheLob wrote:
I would Vote you, the arguments are much better against you then against Ulmaut as well despite me liking you more.
This makes no sense. You think Prom is scum, but you would vote for Hopeless? Prom has literally been pushing Hopeless all day. It is very, very obvious that they aren't BOTH. So do you think Prom is scum, or do you think Hopeless is?
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Prom is who I think but I don't think Ulmaut is in at all, Hopeless has a better chance than Ulmaut to be scum IMO.
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On July 10 2012 04:34 BobTheLob wrote:
I would Vote you, the arguments are much better against you then against Ulmaut as well despite me liking you more.
I'm 99% sure that Keirathi is scum and his play has really been annoying me, but we're in complete agreement about how frustrating this kind of play is :-/.
If you are more persuaded by the arguments against Hopeless than those against me, you should be voting Hopeless. We're at LYLO - if you help push a mislynch on me over the edge, the game is over and you lost it for us. If you're determined to play this way, then that's up to you, and I hope that it still somehow manages to lynch the right guys, but it's really frustrating, especially when we're down to brass tacks and need town to be playing at its absolute best.
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On July 10 2012 04:35 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 04:19 Keirathi wrote:
If I was scum fake claiming DT, why would I claim that I was roleblocked? If you were a real DT, why wouldn't you know and share the results of your first night's investigations? If Keirathi were (hypothetically speaking) a DT, wouldn't he have been given his predecessor's reads upon taking over his slot?
I don't know why I don't have that information. When I was placed in, it wasn't given to me by ghost. I assumed it was because either BlinD had been AFK and didnt investigate anyone, or it was irrelevent information.
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On July 10 2012 04:39 BobTheLob wrote:
Prom is who I think but I don't think Ulmaut is in at all, Hopeless has a better chance than Ulmaut to be scum IMO.
There is literally 0.0000001% chance that Prom and Hopeless are both scum. What part of this do you not understand?
If you believe that Prom is scum, I don't see how you can believe that Hopeless is too. I just don't get it.
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On July 10 2012 04:40 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 04:35 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 10 2012 04:19 Keirathi wrote:
If I was scum fake claiming DT, why would I claim that I was roleblocked? If you were a real DT, why wouldn't you know and share the results of your first night's investigations? If Keirathi were (hypothetically speaking) a DT, wouldn't he have been given his predecessor's reads upon taking over his slot? I don't know why I don't have that information. When I was placed in, it wasn't given to me by ghost. I assumed it was because either BlinD had been AFK and didnt investigate anyone, or it was irrelevent information.
Seems like a real DT would have realized they were missing important information and let us know about it when claiming. Scum trying to be clever and roleclaim into the first day of LYLO, though, might easily have forgotten about it in the rush to write up the post and only thought to put in reads from the days he'd actually been playing.
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On July 10 2012 04:37 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 04:34 BobTheLob wrote:
I would Vote you, the arguments are much better against you then against Ulmaut as well despite me liking you more. This makes no sense. You think Prom is scum, but you would vote for Hopeless? Prom has literally been pushing Hopeless all day. It is very, very obvious that they aren't BOTH. So do you think Prom is scum, or do you think Hopeless is?
You totally ignore any possibility of a bus, you are working to distort facts to make your case seem like it has weight. Hopeless is scummier than Umlat and you are too.
Your lack of first night dt check is a total flaw in your claim. We'll lynch you next.
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On July 10 2012 04:43 Promethelax wrote:
You totally ignore any possibility of a bus, you are working to distort facts to make your case seem like it has weight. Hopeless is scummier than Umlat and you are too.
How am I distorting facts?
The simple fact of the matter at this point is that the most likely possibility is that either you and UA are working together as scum, or me and Hopeless are.
That's what the last 3 people have to decide on. Which one of the two sides to believe.
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Bob, you believe the arguments against me are more believable. However, you also believe that Prom is scummier than me.
In addition, Promethelax is one of the players who has built up a case against me. In fact, I believe it is his case that is responsible for me being accused of being scum.
Given that you think Promethelax is scum, his case should not have valuable merit to you, or it should look very suspicious to you. If you think he is scum, there is a good chance that I am not scum and therefore you would do well to vote against the player that Promethelax voted for.
The alternative is that we are both scum and Promethelax is sacrificing me for the good of the scum team.
Figuring out this situation is the reason we want you to go through the thread and post your reads. It would make it clearer what your opinion is, and make it easier for us to decide who to vote for based on who out of the players most heavily involved are scummiest.
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Where are the other players, by the way?
Myles, your last post was that Hopeless was a pretty obvious scum read. You were right. Get in here and join in the discussion!
iamperfection, you're lurking again. :-( It's irrelevant to the discussion tonight, because we have better reads, but I'm starting to think that Milton's case on you was a tardy recognition of your true nature. What town player would simpy vanish for the entire day of LYLO play? Get in here and vote, and then get ready to explain why you shouldn't be lynched when we're done with Hopeless and Keirathi?
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On July 10 2012 04:52 Hopeless1der wrote:
Bob, you believe the arguments against me are more believable. However, you also believe that Prom is scummier than me.
In addition, Promethelax is one of the players who has built up a case against me. In fact, I believe it is his case that is responsible for me being accused of being scum.
Given that you think Promethelax is scum, his case should not have valuable merit to you, or it should look very suspicious to you. If you think he is scum, there is a good chance that I am not scum and therefore you would do well to vote against the player that Promethelax voted for.
The alternative is that we are both scum and Promethelax is sacrificing me for the good of the scum team.
Figuring out this situation is the reason we want you to go through the thread and post your reads. It would make it clearer what your opinion is, and make it easier for us to decide who to vote for based on who out of the players most heavily involved are scummiest.
Yes you have a point but unfortunately it doesn't matter, he could be busing you or you might not be scum, what matters is what the others think, if we can get a vote on Prome and he gets lynched I think we win, but I think people will be voting you over him and Ulmaut. Also just because he might be scum does't make his reads any worse, I've gone through them and he's right on almost all of his points. I like Prome a lot but in my opinion he's scummy as hell. That's all I have to say for now, everything else I have to say would just be a rehashing of something said earlier.
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Totally off topic, guys, but seriously, how hard is it to spell "Umlaut"?
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On July 10 2012 05:06 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Totally off topic, guys, but seriously, how hard is it to spell "Umlaut"?
I've just been copying everybody else sorry
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On July 10 2012 05:06 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Totally off topic, guys, but seriously, how hard is it to spell "Umlaut"?
People have been spelling my name Kier all game.
At least I spell yours right :p
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On July 10 2012 05:05 BobTheLob wrote:
Also just because he might be scum does't make his reads any worse, I've gone through them and he's right on almost all of his points..
Err, what? He was "99% sure Fencer was scum". His day 2 scumteam was Fencer, Intact, and Hopeless, which has obviously proven wrong so for every flip so far. Basically he hasn't made a single good read all game unless Hopeless flips scum.
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On July 10 2012 05:12 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 05:06 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Totally off topic, guys, but seriously, how hard is it to spell "Umlaut"? People have been spelling my name Kier all game. At least I spell yours right :p
I've spelled yours right all game, too
You're still scum, though.
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Current vote count for day 4:
AmericanUmlaut (2): Hopeless1der, Keirathi
Hopeless1der (2): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
Promethelax (1): BobTheLob
Not yet voted: iamperfection, myles
With 7 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch. 35 minutes remain
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United States5162 Posts
This is how I see it - either Hopeless is scum and that's why it was hard for Prom/Umlaut to round up support, or Prom/Umluat are scum and that's the reason they couldn't drum up support. I'll be voting Hopeless because I think there's far more to suggest Prom and Umluat are town rather than scum, and Keirathi's story, after further review, does seem to have some holes in it.
##Vote Hopeless1der
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Hopeless: how would you feel about voting Prom at this point instead of AU, if Bob is so against voting AU?
I gave them basically an equal read earlier today. My main reason not voting Prom instead of AU was that I didn't feel confident enough in my debate skill to convince people who had given Prom support and basically a free ride throughout the whole game to vote for him at this point. If he survived another night, maybe, but with the way today has gone, its virtually guaranteed that he will survive another night regardless of if he's scum or not.
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Alright. This game might actually last another day. Now where is iamperfection?
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On July 10 2012 05:37 Keirathi wrote:
Hopeless: how would you feel about voting Prom at this point instead of AU, if Bob is so against voting AU?
I gave them basically an equal read earlier today. My main reason not voting Prom instead of AU was that I didn't feel confident enough in my debate skill to convince people who had given Prom support and basically a free ride throughout the whole game to vote for him at this point. If he survived another night, maybe, but with the way today has gone, its virtually guaranteed that he will survive another night regardless of if he's scum or not.
I call bullshit on this, If you thought it was him then you should have at least said so, you are getting more and more scummy as the day goes on, what the fuck is up with that.
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I'll give that a whirl Keirathi. The alternative is I die and we lose.
##Unvote
##Vote: Promethelax
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On July 10 2012 05:39 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 05:37 Keirathi wrote:
Hopeless: how would you feel about voting Prom at this point instead of AU, if Bob is so against voting AU?
I gave them basically an equal read earlier today. My main reason not voting Prom instead of AU was that I didn't feel confident enough in my debate skill to convince people who had given Prom support and basically a free ride throughout the whole game to vote for him at this point. If he survived another night, maybe, but with the way today has gone, its virtually guaranteed that he will survive another night regardless of if he's scum or not.
I call bullshit on this, If you thought it was him then you should have at least said so, you are getting more and more scummy as the day goes on, what the fuck is up with that.
Bob, Keirathi has said Prom is his top read all along. And holy shit you got judgmental all of a sudden. Where the hell was this when we needed it.
His reasoning is laid out in this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 10 2012 01:52 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 23:58 Promethelax wrote:
Kier: if you are around could you explain to me why AU is no more scum than me? I see the reasons you posted but they don't seem sufficient to make a 45% change in his scumminess. Maybe a 25% bu nothing so drastic as to make me totally positive that I will rest the fate of town on him being scum. How did I drop two (or more) spaces in your scum hierarchy? You aren't even comfortable pushing your scummiest read (me) from yesterday when we're in a lylo situation.
What I'm saying is: where does this inconsistency come from?
I don't necessarily think he is scummier than you. I also don't think I'm a good enough debater/convincing enough to get people that have shown you support all game to vote for you. The longer you stay alive, the scummier you seem, so while I feel you and AU and approx. the same read right now, I'm a bit more comfortable voting him today than you. If you really want, I can lay out my full case against you, too, though. Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 00:12 Promethelax wrote:
And, in addition to that how did Hopeless become townie in your eyes? You had him as a scum read when you first showed up and are claiming to have investigated him last night without result. Why are you no longer willing to vote for him when he was a top 3 scum read? Of your other top threes you investigated 1 who came back green and you have deiced, it appears, that I am town as well. There is nothing in your filter to suggest why you changed your mind about Hopeless' play from scum to town and that worries me since Hopeless has been a scum read for just about the whole game and he keeps no getting lynched. Since he is probably scum and certainly still my best scum read your soft defense of him isn't working for me.
Explanation please. I dunno, its hard to explain. His recent posting reeks of...desperation? But basically my whole scumread on him was based on his Day 1 actions, and there's virtually nothing since then that really feels scummy. I haven't completely dismissed him, but for now I'm not voting for him. As far as my percentages changing, my reads were from Day1+Night1+Day2+half of Night2. Now I've been playing for another Half of Night2+Day3+Night3+Day4. There's basically double the information now.
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On July 10 2012 05:39 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 05:37 Keirathi wrote:
Hopeless: how would you feel about voting Prom at this point instead of AU, if Bob is so against voting AU?
I gave them basically an equal read earlier today. My main reason not voting Prom instead of AU was that I didn't feel confident enough in my debate skill to convince people who had given Prom support and basically a free ride throughout the whole game to vote for him at this point. If he survived another night, maybe, but with the way today has gone, its virtually guaranteed that he will survive another night regardless of if he's scum or not.
I call bullshit on this, If you thought it was him then you should have at least said so, you are getting more and more scummy as the day goes on, what the fuck is up with that.
This is the way I look at it: if I think Prom and AU both have an 80% chance of being scum, but Prom has town support behind him, then its obvious that I would vote and push AU instead. The longer Prom lives, the scummier he seems, and the more likely he is to make a slip. I felt more confident in my ability to get him lynched on a later day than I did today. That's it.
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##Unvote
##Vote Promethelax
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On July 10 2012 05:36 Myles wrote:
This is how I see it - either Hopeless is scum and that's why it was hard for Prom/Umlaut to round up support, or Prom/Umluat are scum and that's the reason they couldn't drum up support. I'll be voting Hopeless because I think there's far more to suggest Prom and Umluat are town rather than scum, and Keirathi's story, after further review, does seem to have some holes in it.
##Vote Hopeless1der
Well, this basically seals the deal. I hope you are scum with them, because if not, you just made the worst read of your life.
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Also: I have a bad feeling about perfection at this point.
I have a feeling that he's here, and just waiting until the last second to hammer.
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Its either him or Iamperfection. We'll know in 10 minutes or so. MYLES WATCH FOR LAST MINUTE HAMMER FROM PERFECTION. HAVE A SWAP VOTE POST READY AND IF HE HAMMERS ME (AND YOU'RE TOWN) IT MEANS HE'S SCUM)
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Christ, I don't think iamperfection is showing up. There are only 10 minutes to go.
Bob, if you vote for Promethelax it's 3-3. If iamperfection doesn't show up, then we've got no lynch and the scum win barring that they fire into a vet or our hapless medic finally defends someone. You've already made clear that you consider Hopeless a good lynch target. Please switch and give us a shot at taking this game another day. I can't stand to lose this game because of a no-show during LYLO.
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On July 10 2012 05:43 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 05:39 BobTheLob wrote:On July 10 2012 05:37 Keirathi wrote:
Hopeless: how would you feel about voting Prom at this point instead of AU, if Bob is so against voting AU?
I gave them basically an equal read earlier today. My main reason not voting Prom instead of AU was that I didn't feel confident enough in my debate skill to convince people who had given Prom support and basically a free ride throughout the whole game to vote for him at this point. If he survived another night, maybe, but with the way today has gone, its virtually guaranteed that he will survive another night regardless of if he's scum or not.
I call bullshit on this, If you thought it was him then you should have at least said so, you are getting more and more scummy as the day goes on, what the fuck is up with that. Bob, Keirathi has said Prom is his top read all along. And holy shit you got judgmental all of a sudden. Where the hell was this when we needed it. His reasoning is laid out in this post: + Show Spoiler +On July 10 2012 01:52 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 23:58 Promethelax wrote:
Kier: if you are around could you explain to me why AU is no more scum than me? I see the reasons you posted but they don't seem sufficient to make a 45% change in his scumminess. Maybe a 25% bu nothing so drastic as to make me totally positive that I will rest the fate of town on him being scum. How did I drop two (or more) spaces in your scum hierarchy? You aren't even comfortable pushing your scummiest read (me) from yesterday when we're in a lylo situation.
What I'm saying is: where does this inconsistency come from?
I don't necessarily think he is scummier than you. I also don't think I'm a good enough debater/convincing enough to get people that have shown you support all game to vote for you. The longer you stay alive, the scummier you seem, so while I feel you and AU and approx. the same read right now, I'm a bit more comfortable voting him today than you. If you really want, I can lay out my full case against you, too, though. Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 00:12 Promethelax wrote:
And, in addition to that how did Hopeless become townie in your eyes? You had him as a scum read when you first showed up and are claiming to have investigated him last night without result. Why are you no longer willing to vote for him when he was a top 3 scum read? Of your other top threes you investigated 1 who came back green and you have deiced, it appears, that I am town as well. There is nothing in your filter to suggest why you changed your mind about Hopeless' play from scum to town and that worries me since Hopeless has been a scum read for just about the whole game and he keeps no getting lynched. Since he is probably scum and certainly still my best scum read your soft defense of him isn't working for me.
Explanation please. I dunno, its hard to explain. His recent posting reeks of...desperation? But basically my whole scumread on him was based on his Day 1 actions, and there's virtually nothing since then that really feels scummy. I haven't completely dismissed him, but for now I'm not voting for him. As far as my percentages changing, my reads were from Day1+Night1+Day2+half of Night2. Now I've been playing for another Half of Night2+Day3+Night3+Day4. There's basically double the information now.
Ah I forgot about that I'm sorry, at any rate where was I, I was dealing with personal shit, my grandmother was in the hospital, but as I said its all good now.
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Current vote count for day 4:
AmericanUmlaut (0):
Hopeless1der (3): AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax, Myles
Promethelax (3): BobTheLob, Keirathi, Hopeless1der
Not yet voted: iamperfection
With 7 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch. 5 minutes remain
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Umlaut please. vote for prome
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United States5162 Posts
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Ah well, if this ends like I expect, then GG scum. You played well. I wish I had a more dominant, leadership personality and could have lead town to victory. There's a reason I was never on the debate team.
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Scum team wins. Full endgame post in a bit.
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GODDAMNIT MYLES WHY WERENT YOU WATCHING
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On July 10 2012 05:59 iamperfection wrote:
## vote bobthelob
Rofl wtf. That's such a weird play that its funny, even if you are scum and just wanted the no-lynch instead of the hammer.
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United States5162 Posts
You know, for as much as I was ready for this to be over, I at least wanted a satisfactory ending - wrong or right. That was the shttiest way it could have ended. A no lynch in LyLo...you gotta be kidding me.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 10 2012 06:02 Keirathi wrote:Rofl wtf. That's such a weird play that its funny, even if you are scum and just wanted the no-lynch instead of the hammer.
Maybe we were both wrong and Prom and Hopeless are both scum.
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Then I wouldn't be upset right now
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United States5162 Posts
Well played Prom. Wish I could say the same.
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On July 10 2012 06:02 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:02 Keirathi wrote:On July 10 2012 05:59 iamperfection wrote:
## vote bobthelob
Rofl wtf. That's such a weird play that its funny, even if you are scum and just wanted the no-lynch instead of the hammer. Maybe we were both wrong and Prom and Hopeless are both scum.
That is possible, but I still find it highly, HIGHLY unlikely.
Prom, AU, perfection was my read coming into today.
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ENDGAME
ghost_403 ran along the desolate NYC sidewalk, just as the orange glow of the sun began to fill the urban jungle. He knew he had one and only one chance to prevent the success of the conspiracy.
TheToast had made one critical mistake. After his last round of taunting, ghost checked the phone number TheToast was texting from. It appeared to be a regular disposable phone, but through his taunting, had left the phone on. It meant ghost ghost could still track him. With the help of the TL wizard, ghost was able to get a fix on the location.
The signal was coming from a warehouse on the upper east side probably his main hideout. Ghost was hopped into his car and took off, the screeching of his tires reverberating through the empty streets. He was determined to stop TheToast at any cost.
The sun was fully above the horizon by the time ghost reached his destination. He stood peering around the corner at the hulking building, it was a non-descript steel and concrete building, rectangular in shape. Ghost was a good fifty feet away, down a small road flanked by several old brick buildings. Ghost watched for a while, but saw no activity. He clutched his revolver tightly and sprinted toward the warehouse, stopping occationally to duck into cover. Each time he again peered out toward the warehouse, searching for any signs of danger before sprinting again toward the building. After several leapfrog manuvers, he found himself in front of a small steel door leading into the structure.
Cautiously, he bent down and swiftly picked the lock to the door. Again he looked around and saw nothing, and proceeded to open the door. It was dark inside, and the sun meant he could see little of what awaited him. But he had no choice, this was the only way to stop TheToast. He pulled his revolver close and slowly made his way into the warehouse.
The building was dark inside, the faint smell of rust and mold hung in the air. There was nothing inside the building save for a rickety woodent catwalk running the perimeter, and a single solitary light hanging from the ceiling in the center. Ghost made his way into the center of the building, constantly scanning the room for danger, but he couldn't see a thing. Perhaps this wasn't the place after all?
As he stood under the light, he felt his foot kick something. He looked down to see a cellphone, a cheap disposible one that had been left on. Dear God. It was a trap! Before ghost could react he heard deep laughter above him, the silloette of a man appeared on the catwalk, shrouded in darkness. Ghost pointed his gun.
"I wouldn't do that if I were you, take a look behind you ghost." Ghost turned around slowly to see the sillowettes of three men with sub machine guns, all pointed directly at him. "Put down the gun ghost, or there may be an 'unfortunate' accident. Mmhahahaha". Ghost reluctantly tossed his gun into the darkeness. He had failed. Perhaps if there had been a few less of them, if only he had been able to capture even one of them, maybe he would've had a chance. But four on one was just too many.
"Good" the dark figure responded. "We wouldn't want anything to happen to TL's secret operative, now would we?". Ghost's eye's widened. "Oh yes Ghost, we know all about that. Too bad the ABL posters failed so miserably in their investigation, otherwise that may have actually done you some good. A shame".
"Just tell me one thing Toast." Ghost shouted into the darkness. "Why? Why did you betray us?!"
"I told you ghost. I was tired of the nazi mods and their attitudes. The superiority, their smugness. They think they were better than me. Me! Ha! WELL WHOSE BETTER NOW!! Hahaha!!. My hacking program is just about complete, soon all TL.net will be under my control. And there's nothing anyone can do about it! Hahaha."
"But what about the others? What did you have to promise them?" The three dark figures decented from the catwalk, into the light.
"Suprisingly little Ghost. I just offered them what they always wanted. Combat just wanted featured stream, CM wanted unreagulated crap posting, and Blasterion, poor Blasterioun just wanted to post weird anime chicks wherever they wanted. Such little things denied to them by the TL mods."
Ghost could see the blue flash of a screen as TheToast checked his phone. "But things are different now. My program is complete, TL is now under my control. Welcome to TeamToast.net, where I make the rules. And there are no rules Hahahahahahahaha!"
ghost fell to his knees. "No damnit!!! Nooooooooo!!!!!"
Securing the mislynch on Day 4, the scum team manage to win the game.
Full role list:
Anacletus: Jailkeeper
Keirathi: Cop
BobTheLob: VT
Miltonkram: VT
Hopeless1der: VT
Intact: VT
JingleHell: VT
Myles: VT
Scibercia: VT
AmericanUmlaut: Godfather
iamperfection: Mafia Roleblocker
Promethelax: Vanilla Scum
I'm way behind on my notes for this game, so I can't really say too much at the moment as far as significant plays or players. All of that should be up sometime tomorrow.
A huge thanks to my co-host, TheToast, responsible for all of the flavor and keeping the game running while I wasn't around.
A huge thanks to GMarshal, who kept the game from lighting on fire several times, as he tried his best to keep me from doing some really stupid stuff.
And thanks to the players! I really did have fun hosting for you guys.
GG!
The scum team this game is: iamperfection, AmericanUmlaut, Promethelax
The scum QT this game is: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/DiYvZaigCZfLY
The obs QT this game is: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/esE8ptcCZHA
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On July 10 2012 06:04 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:02 Myles wrote:On July 10 2012 06:02 Keirathi wrote:On July 10 2012 05:59 iamperfection wrote:
## vote bobthelob
Rofl wtf. That's such a weird play that its funny, even if you are scum and just wanted the no-lynch instead of the hammer. Maybe we were both wrong and Prom and Hopeless are both scum. That is possible, but I still find it highly, HIGHLY unlikely. Prom, AU, perfection was my read coming into today.
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Did BlindRawr really not have any reads for Keirathi?
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Oh, shit!
I should have read my role PM more closely .
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FUCK I CALLED IT GOD DAMN I TFUISHLDSWGFI GF:ljds:gjldsg;d
gs
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On July 10 2012 06:07 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Oh, shit! I should have read my role PM more closely .
Explains a lot.
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I think Ghost is still confused, though. There was no mislynch day 4.
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On July 10 2012 06:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
Did BlindRawr really not have any reads for Keirathi?
He did investigate Intact night 1. I didn't mention it because, despite his innocent result, he left the game and didn't try to protect Intact at all.
I came into the game in a bad position and was trying to play damage control.
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GG, everybody. And thanks very much to ghost for hosting - you did a great job in less than perfect circumstances. I really enjoyed the game, I hope the rest of you did, too!
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TheToast is working again. Endgame post: now with flavor!
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GG WP AmericanUmlaut, iAmPerfection, and Promethelax.
It's too bad I screwed up so much that I gave up. I need to take a page from Hopeless1der's book.
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On July 10 2012 06:07 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Oh, shit! I should have read my role PM more closely .
lol wat?
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On July 10 2012 06:09 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
Did BlindRawr really not have any reads for Keirathi? He did investigate Intact night 1. I didn't mention it because, despite his innocent result, he left the game and didn't try to protect Intact at all. I came into the game in a bad position and was trying to play damage control.
That's really, really weird. He requested a ban right after he bailed on the game - maybe something serious came up in real life and he just had to cut off contact with TL?
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GG everybody
Good job mafia. You made it a little too obvious that you were a team IMO. I think you should have bussed one of your members during this last day cycle. It would have guaranteed the win and made this last day less of an all-or-nothing move.
Really good job Keirathi. You did great buddy. It's too bad you couldn't pull out the win.
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You fools!! You let the shit posters win!
Now TL is firmly in my hands hahahahahahah
TeamToast.net is up and running. The only rules, THERE ARE NONE. muahahahahahahahahaha
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gg guys, thanks for playing I had a really good time.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 10 2012 06:10 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:09 Keirathi wrote:On July 10 2012 06:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
Did BlindRawr really not have any reads for Keirathi? He did investigate Intact night 1. I didn't mention it because, despite his innocent result, he left the game and didn't try to protect Intact at all. I came into the game in a bad position and was trying to play damage control. That's really, really weird. He requested a ban right after he bailed on the game - maybe something serious came up in real life and he just had to cut off contact with TL?
He requested a ban shortly afterwards. Something serious did come up, but that really fucked us.
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On July 10 2012 06:10 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:09 Keirathi wrote:On July 10 2012 06:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
Did BlindRawr really not have any reads for Keirathi? He did investigate Intact night 1. I didn't mention it because, despite his innocent result, he left the game and didn't try to protect Intact at all. I came into the game in a bad position and was trying to play damage control. That's really, really weird. He requested a ban right after he bailed on the game - maybe something serious came up in real life and he just had to cut off contact with TL?
He went to London for a week and had to drop out. He gave me plenty of heads up, but I misread his post and didn't catch it til he was basically gone.
@theToast: You've foiled me! Until next time...
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On July 10 2012 06:11 Miltonkram wrote: GG everybody Good job mafia. You made it a little too obvious that you were a team IMO. I think you should have bussed one of your members during this last day cycle. It would have guaranteed the win and made this last day less of an all-or-nothing move. Really good job Keirathi. You did great buddy. It's too bad you couldn't pull out the win.
Yea, this game was really, really silly.
The game was over today one way or the other.
And I don't really feel like I played that well. Maybe I should have shouted more, but basically all of my reads got brushed under the rug and never mentioned. It was so obvious that Prom was buying town cred all the time with the "mod confirmed townie" in every post, and I even called the playing nice with JH then killing him n1 to buy more town cred.
Oh well
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On July 10 2012 06:11 Miltonkram wrote: GG everybody Good job mafia. You made it a little too obvious that you were a team IMO. I think you should have bussed one of your members during this last day cycle. It would have guaranteed the win and made this last day less of an all-or-nothing move. Really good job Keirathi. You did great buddy. It's too bad you couldn't pull out the win.
We discussed that, actually, and decided against it because the way the game had gone up to that point, we just didn't feel like we'd be satisfied with anything less than total victory. It was risky, but it made the last day of play a lot more fun. If we'd actually bussed one of our number and played it out conservatively, it would have been an easy win.
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From the scum IRC:
[16:49:57] <iamperfection> 10 min
[16:51:18] <iamperfection> fuck
[16:51:57] <@AmericanUmlaut> lol
[16:52:05] <iamperfection> they know
[16:52:11] <@AmericanUmlaut> It's a pretty obvious play
[16:52:20] <@AmericanUmlaut> I hope I can convince Bob to actually switch, because then we're okay
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@Keirathi
I thought you played great. You're posts all gave me a really townie feel and I was willing to believe your DT claim even though I was quite suspicious of Blind-Rawr. You also called out the entire scumteam. Town was actually really close to winning this game.
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Thanks GhostTheToast for hosting. Sorry the game was so dead at times, quite different from the real ABL discussion thread in fact.
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United States5162 Posts
edit: lol I'm bad at mafia
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On July 10 2012 06:17 Miltonkram wrote:
Thanks GhostTheToast for hosting. Sorry the game was so dead at times, quite different from the real ABL discussion thread in fact. The real ABL discussion thread used to be off-topic 99% of the time. Part of the reason I screwed up is because I thought this game would be like that.
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On July 10 2012 06:14 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:11 Miltonkram wrote: GG everybody Good job mafia. You made it a little too obvious that you were a team IMO. I think you should have bussed one of your members during this last day cycle. It would have guaranteed the win and made this last day less of an all-or-nothing move. Really good job Keirathi. You did great buddy. It's too bad you couldn't pull out the win. Yea, this game was really, really silly. The game was over today one way or the other. And I don't really feel like I played that well. Maybe I should have shouted more, but basically all of my reads got brushed under the rug and never mentioned. It was so obvious that Prom was buying town cred all the time with the "mod confirmed townie" in every post, and I even called the playing nice with JH then killing him n1 to buy more town cred. Oh well
I think a lot of your problem was that you showed up guns blazing. That one post with your notes gave us so much fodder to poke and prod at your cases that, even though they were actually really good, we could make the whole structure look like you were just pointing fingers. I think you would have been better off just posting your top three reads and going a bit more in depth with the analysis.
And Fencar -- yeah, you should have stuck around, man! I felt really bad that you were so frustrated that you just bailed. I hope you don't take anything personally that happened in the game. This game is just a bunch of posts in a forum, but it's a full-contact sport for sure, and you've got to keep in mind that it's just a game and we're only playing hard because that's how the game works.
For future reference, though, if you're getting railroaded hard and are about to get lynched, evidently resigning from the game in frustration is a pretty good way to get out of it :-/
I've got to get to bed now, it's way past my bed time. GG to everyone again, thanks for the game!
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Fencar should have been modkilled.
gg scumteam. 2 flawless victories in a row for me now, and it's because you played very well, dealing with the difficulty of replacements splendidly.
Keirathi - you played very well and made good reads. But sometimes when it's one man against the tide, being correct isn't enough. Don't blame yourself.
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Oh PBU team: what made you roleblock me last night? Was it just a random luck of the draw?
That was basically the turning point where I realized it was going to be really hard for us to win.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
iirc, they roleblocked you because they considered you dangerous. They didn't know you were DT but that was enough
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On July 10 2012 06:31 marvellosity wrote:
iirc, they roleblocked you because they considered you dangerous. They didn't know you were DT but that was enough
Then why not kill me instead Milton (or even sciberbia earlier, although I can understand that one a bit more).
Killing Milton basically ruined Prom's credibility, and Umlauts as a result, not that I was able to convince anyone of that, but it really really hurt their case in my eyes and pushed both of them ahead of Hopeless for good.
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We made the decision before Milton did his thing.
We figured the Blind-Rawr suspicions on you gave us a decent shot and killing you made little sense when you were gunning for me. We had already decided to go for an all or nothing ploy for the challenge of it at that point if I remember correctly.
Marv: thanks for being there for us, you came through when we needed you and gave me some hope when every scummy guy was getting replaced by a townie guy which sucked butts for us.
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Okay, some post game thoughts:
First of all, I'm pretty dissapointed with the amount of replacements in this game. A mini game is not that much commitement and there really was no excuse. When you get yourself mod killed, you're basically fucking up the game completely for your teammates. That many replacements makes it extremely difficult for anyone to get solid reads on the other players, and probably the reason town lost so resoundingly this game. Props to JingleHell for being so active and engaged though.
The Day 1 lynch of Anacletus was totally avoidable. It had all the hallmarks of the typical bandwagon against the newbie towny who said something stupid. If you take away nothing else from this game, the guy who's acting "scummy" day 1 is almost never scum. Newbie mafia players tend to lurk (since they're paranoid about getting caught) and more adept scum players won't be doing these types of things anyway. No newbie mafia player would be going on about the reads they have which they won't share. They'd be doing everything in their power not to draw attention. If there are "scum slips" they're going to be far more subtle than that.
Second, when you see this in a mini-game:
On July 01 2012 02:03 ghost_403 wrote:
Day 1 Vote Count:
Anacletus (7): AmericanUmlaut, BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Fencer710, Intact, iamperfection, Promethelax
Intact (1): Anacletus
Fencer710 (1): Hopeless1der
Hopeless1der (1): JingleHell
It's a pretty good indication that you've got a bandwagon on a townie.
Night 1,
Sorry I missed the flavor post, I was a bit sick (but that is why the mafia forum demands multiple hosts ).
Anyway, I'm not sure about the hit on JH. One the one hand, he was the most active town player. On the other hand, he had all the hallmarks of someone who'd lead the town on an endless goose chase the whole game and be generally distracting. I probably would've left him alive, at least until night 3.
The Day 3 no lynch was a big mistake. Town should never no-lynch that far into the game. Day 1 town lynch can be argued for, but on Day 3 when you're that far behind you have to lynch someone or your just delaying the inevitable. Though I think this was partly due to the level of replacements that made it hard. But you've still got to come to some agreement.
The decision of what to do with Myles was tough. Technically he should've been modkilled which would've resulted in an instant mafia victory. It was unfair to "pardon" him. But winning a game via mod kill is no fun, and after the amount of effort some town players put in, losing that way really stinks. It's basically unfun for everyone involved and allows one person to ruin the game for everyone. In the end, it was the same outcome but hopefully a little bit more fulfilling for the mafia players.
Night 3
Props on the Blind-Rawr/Keirathi roleblock. That was an excellent read that basically won you the game. He was trying to investigate AU, and so would've returned mafia if you hadn't roleblocked. This game would probably still be going if you hadn't done so.
Day 4, I actually think mafia mis-played Day 4 a bit. By voting early on Hopeless1der, you guys risked yourself a bit. All you needed was one town vote on another town member, and then a last minute vote switch would've sealed it. I think that would've been a safter tactic.
Town, you guys failed epically day 4. BobTheLob I don't know if you can't do math or if you just thought that whole "vote for the majority" think would lure out the mafia. They're not that dumb, and even a no-lynch would've won the game for them.
This here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=35#693 Should've set off alarm bells. Anytime you see the frantic double post ending with questions in response to an accusation, that should tip you off. That's a real scum slip, talking about reads in a notebook is not, lol. Followed by AU quickly putting his vote on Hopeless, they basically exposed themselves right there.
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no one told me they wold release our qt....
i regret nothing!!
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What I mean when I say it ruined your credibility was the fact that both of you used the exact same scumteam.
Flipping Milton as green, when you had been saying that you were 99% sure of Fencer's guild, seems really, really strange in hindsight.
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On July 10 2012 06:43 iamperfection wrote:
no one told me they wold release our qt....
i regret nothing!!
its okay we all posted under each others names. No one will ever know which of us is which. I hope you enjoyed the post game scum claim.
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On July 10 2012 06:43 Keirathi wrote:
What I mean when I say it ruined your credibility was the fact that both of you used the exact same scumteam.
Flipping Milton as green, when you had been saying that you were 99% sure of Fencer's guild, seems really, really strange in hindsight.
good point but I always had the I'm an idiot defense to fall back on. Which was pretty much my plan if it came to it. And my breadcrumb to throw up some second guesses if it became necessary.
Edit: and somewhere in this game I got to 1000 posts. Go me.
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On July 10 2012 06:43 TheToast wrote:
Props on the Blind-Rawr/Keirathi roleblock. That was an excellent read that basically won you the game. He was trying to investigate AU, and so would've returned mafia if you hadn't roleblocked. This game would probably still be going if you hadn't done so.
Ermm, what? I changed my investigation target to Hopeless. I believe I sent you the adendum. Is changing not allowed?
Not that it made a difference in the long run, but if you had returned me with Umlaut being scum when I asked the investigation to be changed to Hopeless, I would have been pretty upset.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
TheToast said:
"Props on the Blind-Rawr/Keirathi roleblock. That was an excellent read that basically won you the game. He was trying to investigate AU, and so would've returned mafia if you hadn't roleblocked."
no, AU was godfather.
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On July 10 2012 06:49 marvellosity wrote:
TheToast said:
"Props on the Blind-Rawr/Keirathi roleblock. That was an excellent read that basically won you the game. He was trying to investigate AU, and so would've returned mafia if you hadn't roleblocked."
no, AU was godfather.
Ahhhh yes. Well, it was still a really good read on mafia's part.
@Keirathi, yeah I forgot about that. Actually, if you had investigated Hopeless I'm assuming that would've narrowed the list. So still props to mafia.
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On July 10 2012 06:49 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:43 TheToast wrote:
Props on the Blind-Rawr/Keirathi roleblock. That was an excellent read that basically won you the game. He was trying to investigate AU, and so would've returned mafia if you hadn't roleblocked. This game would probably still be going if you hadn't done so.
Ermm, what? I changed my investigation target to Hopeless. I believe I sent you the adendum. Is changing not allowed? Not that it made a difference in the long run, but if you had returned me with Umlaut being scum when I asked the investigation to be changed to Hopeless, I would have been pretty upset.
Even better it would have returned AU is town since he was our GF.
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ggs all - it was fun
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was there an obs qt? I want to see how they did.
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I'm so pissed right now lol I called it 2 of them. I just couldn't say why.
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Also I noticed that the town would say that we lose when we started to vote them while the scum wouldn't.
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I just got finished reading through Maf QT and Obs QT.
Maf QT: I think you guys had some shaky reasoning for a lot of the things you did, but somehow still got away with it. Only explanation really is that all of the modreplaces hurt us as much as it hurt you. Pretty frustrating either way.
Obs QT:
JingleHell wrote:
And Keirathi replacing in when they're heading for mylo? I hope for town's sake he's scum. Wonder if he's going to push for his no-lynch roleclaim crap again?
Sorry for disappointing you
It really is unfortunate that neither of the 2 people you thought were scum in early QT turned out to actually be scum.
@Milton: nice grab of the scumteam!
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Um no, the mod replacements made it much harder for mafia
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Yeah, it really does, which probably explains why the scum team killed all of them so quickly.
I really did feel bad replacing so many people. Unfortunately, modkilling them leaves the town at such a disadvantage so fast. Losing one townie, and they wouldn't have been able to no lynch Day 3, with two they wouldn't have had a Day 3.
By the way, all of the replacements played this game very well, and I really appreciate them stepping in like that. Thanks again you guys!
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
If someone flat out gives up, they shouldn't be replaced. I believe this very firmly.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Effectively town gets to dodge a mislynch by someone giving up.
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On July 10 2012 07:35 ghost_403 wrote:
Yeah, it really does, which probably explains why the scum team killed all of them so quickly.
I really did feel bad replacing so many people. Unfortunately, modkilling them leaves the town at such a disadvantage so fast. Losing one townie, and they wouldn't have been able to no lynch Day 3, with two they wouldn't have had a Day 3.
By the way, all of the replacements played this game very well, and I really appreciate them stepping in like that. Thanks again you guys!
Thanks for inviting me! It was a fun game and I'm glad I decided to accept.
@marv: okay, maybe it didn't hurt us as bad as it hurt mafia, but it certainly hindered our abilities to make overall game reads.
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Is there going to be a breakdown of each player's gameplay?
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On July 10 2012 07:38 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:35 ghost_403 wrote:
Yeah, it really does, which probably explains why the scum team killed all of them so quickly.
I really did feel bad replacing so many people. Unfortunately, modkilling them leaves the town at such a disadvantage so fast. Losing one townie, and they wouldn't have been able to no lynch Day 3, with two they wouldn't have had a Day 3.
By the way, all of the replacements played this game very well, and I really appreciate them stepping in like that. Thanks again you guys! Thanks for inviting me! It was a fun game and I'm glad I decided to accept. @marv: okay, maybe it didn't hurt us as bad as it hurt mafia, but it certainly hindered our abilities to make overall game reads.
No man, replacements fucked us. We would have won no problem with the players as they were at the beginning and in the positions we put ourselves into. Instead of being able to use our Night Kills for useful things we had to use them to take new blood out of the thread.
All the replacements played really well and that was a huge issue since a mislynch is precluded on a townie playing poorly.
You played well but town was lost without the replacements.
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@Marv & Art: Yeah, I think you're right. It just sucks for town, which is who I normally root for. (No one ever makes me scum in the games I play ) Next time, I'll modkill them.
@hopeless: Yeah, I'm going to do that tomorrow. I've written up notes through something like page 10 so far, so I got a while to go. Stay subscribed to the thread, it will get posted.
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On July 10 2012 07:51 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:38 Keirathi wrote:On July 10 2012 07:35 ghost_403 wrote:
Yeah, it really does, which probably explains why the scum team killed all of them so quickly.
I really did feel bad replacing so many people. Unfortunately, modkilling them leaves the town at such a disadvantage so fast. Losing one townie, and they wouldn't have been able to no lynch Day 3, with two they wouldn't have had a Day 3.
By the way, all of the replacements played this game very well, and I really appreciate them stepping in like that. Thanks again you guys! Thanks for inviting me! It was a fun game and I'm glad I decided to accept. @marv: okay, maybe it didn't hurt us as bad as it hurt mafia, but it certainly hindered our abilities to make overall game reads. No man, replacements fucked us. We would have won no problem with the players as they were at the beginning and in the positions we put ourselves into. Instead of being able to use our Night Kills for useful things we had to use them to take new blood out of the thread. All the replacements played really well and that was a huge issue since a mislynch is precluded on a townie playing poorly. You played well but town was lost without the replacements.
Maybe not. You and Umlaut both jumped pretty hard on the Intact wagon, and BLinD had a DT result night 1with him as townie.
The game would have played out a lot differently if he came out and defended Intact instead of leaving. Not that it would have necessarily changed the outcome, but it would have changed the course of action.
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Will there be a remake or anything? I'm totally interested in playing again
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@anacletus: (a) NMM XXI is now accepting signups, and (b) yes, assuming theToast will write the flavor again. I want a round two.
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@Anacletus: Someone will almost certainly make more newbie games. I'm surprised there isnt one already queued up right now.
@ghost: Awesome. Thanks for all your effort, and to Toast and GM.
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Maybe I should look before I post things.
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Apologies for being a bit of a fail coach, wasn't around that much.
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From the obs QT:
Are you kidding? If anyone picks up on it, it's gold. All they need to do is look at the people who were already looking scummy, who tried to make a case against Fencar.
You know, at least two of my huge picks being in on that? The ones who suddenly tried to look like town leaders after my inconvenience was silenced?
##Vote Myles
##Vote Hopeless1der
Killing JingleHell was a horrible mistake.
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On July 10 2012 17:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:From the obs QT: Show nested quote +Are you kidding? If anyone picks up on it, it's gold. All they need to do is look at the people who were already looking scummy, who tried to make a case against Fencar.
You know, at least two of my huge picks being in on that? The ones who suddenly tried to look like town leaders after my inconvenience was silenced?
##Vote Myles
##Vote Hopeless1der Killing JingleHell was a horrible mistake.
Eh, dying may have focused my tunnel vision just a bit. It's impossible to say at this point, without being clouded by hindsight, what I would have done had I still been in.
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On July 10 2012 17:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:From the obs QT: Show nested quote +Are you kidding? If anyone picks up on it, it's gold. All they need to do is look at the people who were already looking scummy, who tried to make a case against Fencar.
You know, at least two of my huge picks being in on that? The ones who suddenly tried to look like town leaders after my inconvenience was silenced?
##Vote Myles
##Vote Hopeless1der Killing JingleHell was a horrible mistake.
Killing JH made perfect sense he was the only townie talking who wasn't me.
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On July 11 2012 05:25 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 17:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:From the obs QT: Are you kidding? If anyone picks up on it, it's gold. All they need to do is look at the people who were already looking scummy, who tried to make a case against Fencar.
You know, at least two of my huge picks being in on that? The ones who suddenly tried to look like town leaders after my inconvenience was silenced?
##Vote Myles
##Vote Hopeless1der Killing JingleHell was a horrible mistake. Killing JH made perfect sense he was the only townie talking who wasn't me.
I know, and I agree . I was just joking about it because his reads were so bad later. It would have been great to have a chatty townie who was always wrong. :-D
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On July 11 2012 05:35 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 05:25 Promethelax wrote:On July 10 2012 17:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:From the obs QT: Are you kidding? If anyone picks up on it, it's gold. All they need to do is look at the people who were already looking scummy, who tried to make a case against Fencar.
You know, at least two of my huge picks being in on that? The ones who suddenly tried to look like town leaders after my inconvenience was silenced?
##Vote Myles
##Vote Hopeless1der Killing JingleHell was a horrible mistake. Killing JH made perfect sense he was the only townie talking who wasn't me. I know, and I agree . I was just joking about it because his reads were so bad later. It would have been great to have a chatty townie who was always wrong. :-D
Haha yeah but we did have that, it was me =p
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On July 11 2012 05:37 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 05:35 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 11 2012 05:25 Promethelax wrote:On July 10 2012 17:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:From the obs QT: Are you kidding? If anyone picks up on it, it's gold. All they need to do is look at the people who were already looking scummy, who tried to make a case against Fencar.
You know, at least two of my huge picks being in on that? The ones who suddenly tried to look like town leaders after my inconvenience was silenced?
##Vote Myles
##Vote Hopeless1der Killing JingleHell was a horrible mistake. Killing JH made perfect sense he was the only townie talking who wasn't me. I know, and I agree . I was just joking about it because his reads were so bad later. It would have been great to have a chatty townie who was always wrong. :-D Haha yeah but we did have that, it was me =p
If only someone called you out on it....
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On July 11 2012 05:53 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 05:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 11 2012 05:35 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 11 2012 05:25 Promethelax wrote:On July 10 2012 17:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote:From the obs QT: Are you kidding? If anyone picks up on it, it's gold. All they need to do is look at the people who were already looking scummy, who tried to make a case against Fencar.
You know, at least two of my huge picks being in on that? The ones who suddenly tried to look like town leaders after my inconvenience was silenced?
##Vote Myles
##Vote Hopeless1der Killing JingleHell was a horrible mistake. Killing JH made perfect sense he was the only townie talking who wasn't me. I know, and I agree . I was just joking about it because his reads were so bad later. It would have been great to have a chatty townie who was always wrong. :-D Haha yeah but we did have that, it was me =p If only someone called you out on it....
I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling townies.
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You did get away with it..
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On July 11 2012 06:20 Hopeless1der wrote:
You did get away with it..
but the scooby-doo reference only works the other way...and scooby-doo trumps truth.
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@ghost: any update on the analysis?
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Unfortunately, Keirathi, I haven't written up to the part where you come into play
I expected to spend more time on it, and I intend on finishing my thoughts on the game, but just haven't gotten around to it. At any rate, here are my thoughts so far.
http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/uKn4LQFCCNCg
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I'm just as interested in your overall notes as I am your notes about me.
You commented on a lot of the same things that I did in my notes (Fencar using mafia guide to defend himself, Prom's 99% quote, Fencar defending Prom out of nowhere for no reason whatsoever, etc), so just by looking at your notes I feel more confident in my ability to pick out juicy tidbits.
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We want mod notes! Don't make me vandalize your quicktopic again -.-
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Yeah, I was hoping to get around to that this weekend, but I got distracted by Dark Knight Rises and a pretty girl. I'll finish that later today.
Or, you could finish it yourself. I'm not picky.
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The below post should have been a huge red flag to everyone playing the game. So big that I'm going to take a moment to go through it here in the thread and respond to all of it.
On July 05 2012 10:55 Promethelax wrote:
Okay, clearly Keirathi thinks I am scum and a reasonable and well thought out response doesn't change his mind. I am not going to bother to defend myself against this since Kier won't listen to reason. If he is going to force everyone to mislynch me I want to get as many of my reads and the reasons for them into the thread so that when I flip green you townies will have more to work with, assuming that a medic protects someone tonight! Come on medic no one will look down on you for batting .333.
So, Keir, if you have anything that you want me to respond to ask me directly. If you just want to suggest that I am scum for no good reason I'm not going to bother to respond. We won't gain anything by me shitting up the thread with my defense so I'm going to give you solid reads instead, if you are town I hope you'll realize that I am too; if you aren't I don't really care what you think. If you really have read my filter so closely I would expect you to have realized that I am not red.
In this game, there are only two alignments: town and mafia. If the person accusing you is part of the mafia, don't bother responding to them. They know you're innocent, and arguing with them isn't really going to get you anywhere. So ignoring them is probably the right thing to do, especially when no one else is jumping on to the bandwagon. However, if the other person is actually part of the town, neither of you are doing the town any favors by sitting across the room from each other and shouting that the other one is scum. Again, the best response to someone thinking you're scum is to find and lynch scum. Once you start flipping a few of your buddies, and they flip red, people aren't going to question your alignment.
So first: my scum reads.
I am leaving Fencar out of this because he has been replaced but I still think he is probably scum and I hope that we all give his replacement a cold hard look.
If you read his filter, he's been pushing Fencar pretty hard the whole game. Leaving this as one line is appropriate.
Blind-Rawr, now Keir, is scum. (1)I never really thought that Blindy was was defiantly scum, or more accurately I never looked at him because there was nothing to look at. His filter is...ten posts long after the start of the game until the point where he was replaced. He never gave us a single read and he could have either been new at town or at scum. He seemed scummy by virtue of his lurking and his lack of reads but he was never my scummiest read and I never followed through on looking into him really. (2)The thing is as soon as he was replaced we got an active player with grandiose reads covering everyone in the thread. He came in here and told us to ignore the scummy vibe everyone had on Blindy and to totally pay attention to his reads. His reads that put me on the top of a scum list. (3)Now like the reast of you, barring scum and dt if we have one, I have a total of one mod-confirmed townie alive in this game. That townie is me and I feel like I have done a good job in that role to work for town and to find mafia, this is reflected in the town read that everyone had on me until Kierth came into the thread, until he showed up no one thought I was mafia and I don't believe that anyone does now. Every townie in this game has a town read on me because of my behaviour. Keir says it is because of how much I post. My filter is three pages long. Count 'em. You know who else has a three page filter? Statistically speaking you do. Myles is on three pages, so is Umlaut, and Hopeless is as well. JH has four pages and he died n1. Lurkers like Bob, Iamimperfection and even Anacletus have two page filters. So why does Kier attack me with this facitius reason? I can't think of any reason for town to distort the facts like this; I can think of a reason for scum to do it though, they want me dead. (4)There has to be a reason that scum killed Sciberbia and not me since we were the most active and the guys who were most well thought of as green. I assume everyone else had a town read on Sciberbia since I did. The only reason I can think of is that I had more of a filter and therefore more things that could be called scummy by scum players or that Sciberbia had better scum reads than me. I wasn't sure that Blindy was scum but (5)Sciberbia sure thought so, you can tell by the way he voted for him: Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote:
Okay it is just about time for me to call it a day.
I quickly read through the filters of Hopeless1der and Fencar. On first read, Fencar actually looks townie to me. I would really not like to lynch him today, and I hope he is not modkilled.
I'm not so sure about Hopeless1der. He looks scummy for the first half of his filter, and then it's like he turns on a switch and starts posting some good analysis on Intact and others. I want to see more from him and don't think he's a good lynch today.
Who I think we should lynch today
Fencar and Intact seem to be the popular targets.
My cursory opinion is that Fencar is town. Also, he is getting modkilled/replaced. I'd really not like to lynch him today.
I think Intact might be scum, but I'm not convinced. I think we have better targets, and I'd not like to lynch Intact today.
As I've said, both BobTheLob and BLinD-RawR look quite scummy to me. I'd be shocked if neither was scum and wouldn't be surprised if both are scum. I feel strongly that we should lynch one of these two today. I feel stronger about BLinD-Rawr.
My schedule
I'm going to sleep now, and then I'll be at work from the time I get up through the deadline. So I can't do any more significant reading or posting until after the lynch. I assure you that I will be following the thread from work though. You can count on me changing my vote to the majority candidate before the deadline if that is what is needed to prevent a No-Lynch.
But for now, I'm feeling more confident about BLinD-Rawr than BobTheLob, so I will
##Vote BlinD-Rawr . (6)Keir's one big post is a re-hash of everything that has happened in thread. He calls it his notes and there are a few observations thrown in but it feels like a a huge post that screams “look at me! Look at me! I am totally contributing!” without actually contributing. I'll link the post and you can read it over for yourself, it is so big that I skimmed it this morning when I had to run to work but it actually doesn't add as much as something of that length should. In that long long post Kier calls Sciberbia 25% lilely to be scum. And when Sciberbia dies and flips town he says: Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 06:10 Keirathi wrote:
gg sciberbia. You were my best town read! (7)look at that attempt to gain towncred. Sciberbia was my best town read too but you'll notice that I acted on that before his death. Although I guess that is true based on what he said, 25% is the lowest chance of flipping scum he gives followed by two thirties and everyone else has a 50% chance or greater, talk about hedging your bets and leaving yourself an out. (8)So I think that Sciberbia was right, BlinD-Rawr was scum and so is kier.
Alright, what is Prom actually saying in this post? Let's count them out. (Numbered above for your convinience.)
- BR gave us nothing to go on because he's been gone from the thread.
- Keir is doing his best to contribute to the game despite being a replacement.
- Nothing. Read this section carefully. He says nothing substantial for the rest of the paragraph.
- More nothing. Just WIFOM about the nightkill.
- Sciberbia thought BR/Kier might be scum.
- Complains that Kier's huge post was a rehash (marginally true, at best).
- Accuses Kier of trying to gain towncred for a "gg" post.
- Pushes a dead townies read.
Prom has managed to type a page worth of words here without saying anything. He's stated the obvious, spewed a lot of hot air, and invoked the name of a dead townie to push for a lynch. (Sort of. Never actually voted for his "strongest scum read".) This post is empty, and that's because Prom isn't really looking for scum.
Side note: For the love of all things sacred, go back and read what dead townies had to say. They aren't necessarily right, but you know their bias, and should take it into account. So many dead townies are ignored after they flip. Go back, see what they had to say, and then figure out if they were right.
My bet is that Hopeless1der is also scum.
Pause. If you already have someone who you're sure is scum, why are you pushing someone else? One scum at a time, otherwise the town becomes chaotic and ineffective. Find scum, lynch scum, find more scum.
I have already made a case about him and here it is Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:Between On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board? and On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on. something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account. He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this: On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things. The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all. So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case. On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU?? Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter. On top of this he has continued to post in a scummy was and when I came under attack he soft defended me I think that he knows that I am green and knows that if I am lynched having defended me will look good. Once I flip green the town will probably lynch Kier (assuming we get our medic save at night, we may as well plan to succeed since planning for failure won't help us) and Keir has said that Hopeless is his next scummiest read after me. Hopeless has defended me. I believe that the scum plan is to get me mislynched in return for probably just straight winning and, if they don't win, losing one of their own and confirming a second as town in everyone's eyes. He also pushes Umlaut while Keir calls him town, it looks to me like scum setting up the perfect follow up mislynch after both Kier and I have flipped.
Now, a bit earlier in the post, Prom declared himself "confirmed town" due to the length of his filter. Now, he's saying that another member of the town is scum for believing that he's town? And all in an attempt to get him mislynched, then sacking Kier for towncred? Connections are important in this game, but as of yet, no one has flipped scum. You can't really make those connections until you know someone's alignment.
It is my firm belief that Hopeless is scum. His play seemed stupid but it changed drastically, he says he got coaching but I bet it was from marvellosity and not xsksc or artanis[xp], note his familiar use of marvellosity's name here: Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
By my count, sciberbia has hammered Intact, just over an hour remaining.
(See marv, I can spell his name just fine.) I'd say that is from someone who has talked to 'marv' and not our coaches. Hopeless1der is scum along with Kier.
That last point is just ridiculous.
In addition, notice that again, Prom has not brought anything new to the thread. His entire case is (a) things he's brought to the attention of the town before, (b) a soft defense based on a paranoid theory, and (c) a ridiculous point based on him using a coach's name. Again, this is him trying to look like he's contributing to the thread while not contributing.
Since we are in a situation where we will lose if we mislynch we lose (assuming there are no brilliant medic saves, which seem unlikely at this point) I want to talk about town reads too. It doesn't matter if scum know who we see as town, we all need to have each others' reads. Town only benefits from more information and I want to get as much of it out there as possible.
The person I want to talk about is Myles, since I have made a case against him in the past as have JH and others, I think he is a possible mislynch target.
Myles is, as far as I can tell, town. (look at me, spelling out that my opinions are my opinions, I wish I had more information that I could give you but I don't and I can't).
Notice that he's soft defending Myles here for towncred, which is one of his main points against hopeless1der.
So, as you know if you have read this thread, I have stated in the past that Bob is scummy. I don't think so anymore, and not just because he was celebrating Canada day with me. Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:04 BobTheLob wrote:On July 04 2012 03:59 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
EBWOP: I should clarify what I mean when I say I'm very nervous about the lynch. Town play has not been good this game, which has left us with more scummy-looking players than there are actual scum. Assuming there's even one PBU in this game who knows how to play without looking like the second coming of GG.Nore, we're lynching into a population that includes way too many friendlies for comfort. Even making the best reads we can, we're taking a percentage gamble that I'm really not happy about. *Twitch* That was what I was saying before and I got bitched at for it.... Bob is actually right to bring this up, we jumped on him for the exact same thought process which was worded more poorly in his case. Bringing attention to this serves no purpose if he is scum. He wouldn't want to make us re-look at his mistakes. But he focuses on them to bring attention to another player. Admitting to his own mistakes and using them to make a point, albeit a simple one, is a townie behaviour. It is also his post Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 12:11 BobTheLob wrote:
I've more or less given up, I dug myself a hole. I realize that I look scummy as hell and there is very little I can do to convince you otherwise because if I suddenly got a whole bunch of shit put together and did some epic reads it would just be me doing damage control and still look scummy. Now IMO Prome is scum and that's who I'll be voting tomorrow if we don't get anything better. Also I realize that I'm dead sooooooo... Yeah FML. onto which Keir bandwaggons. Though he totally fails to mention that he isn't posting something revolutionary. I think that if Kier is scum Bob is town and, since I am sure that Kier is scum I am also sure that Bob is town. Saying what Bob said above as scum would be dumb, I am one of the most active town players and have had 0 suspicion on me all game so why would he say this? Only if he were town who actually thought that I was scum, he is wrong but green as far as I can see.
And again, Prom is pushing reads based on connections with players who have not flipped. Notice again that Prom slips in that he's confirmed town.
To some up this post for those that don't have the patience to wade through it:
Kier=Scum
Hopeless=Scum
Bob=Town
This is a scummy post. This should have painted Prom as scum as soon as it went up in thread.
@Town: Pay close attention to people who are trying to (a) convince you they are somehow "confirmed town" and (b) make long posts without contributing. These are what the scum try to spend their time doing. A good town player will spend their time trying to find scum. Scum will try to spend their time convincing you that they're spending their time trying to find scum. Learn the difference and punish people who do the latter.
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I happen to like my pants-on-head-retarded connection theory
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.m2sat.com/images/iNetVu_and_Van1.jpg)
