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On May 24 2012 17:44 wherebugsgo wrote:Is he gone? <peeks around a corner> Anyway if Acid never responds, we kill him. To make that threat more real, let's turn up the heat. ##vote Acid~Nova, do you support a lynch of any of Acid, zealos, or Tunkeg?
Got a couple pages to catch up on, just saw this
I would support an acid lynch and to some extent zealos, but I think theres a high chance of him being a frustrated townie
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On May 24 2012 20:02 marvellosity wrote:
Yep, way to not be able to read and misrepresent what's been said. You're a real star.
You're saying because I wasn't able to find, and vote for, a scum on day1, I'm mafia.
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On May 24 2012 20:14 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 20:02 marvellosity wrote:
Yep, way to not be able to read and misrepresent what's been said. You're a real star. You're saying because I wasn't able to find, and vote for, a scum on day1, I'm mafia.
No, I'm saying that you COULD have done so. You abdicated searching for scum 7+ hours from the deadline, and the next day your reads all came from posts before that point.
You actively chose NOT to hunt for scum when judging by your later cases the evidence was there for you, and you chose to lynch a townie because you actively chose this option.
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Anyway, this is entirely unconstructive, I promised I wouldn't argue with my reads. I don't have to convince you after all.
On another train of thought.
Zealos, is zelblade still your #1 scumread?
Nova, how's that case coming on?
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Marvel displaying his apt reading skills. Clearly hiro's my number one scumread at this point, his case at the start of the day literally screamed mafia to me.
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On May 24 2012 20:17 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 20:14 Zealos wrote:On May 24 2012 20:02 marvellosity wrote:
Yep, way to not be able to read and misrepresent what's been said. You're a real star. You're saying because I wasn't able to find, and vote for, a scum on day1, I'm mafia. No, I'm saying that you COULD have done so. You abdicated searching for scum 7+ hours from the deadline, and the next day your reads all came from posts before that point. You actively chose NOT to hunt for scum when judging by your later cases the evidence was there for you, and you chose to lynch a townie because you actively chose this option.
I'm not the only one who didn't make a case on day1, why me?
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On May 24 2012 20:28 Zealos wrote:
Marvel displaying his apt reading skills. Clearly hiro's my number one scumread at this point, his case at the start of the day literally screamed mafia to me.
So is it just that case? Or are there other surrounding factors? Could we just *remove sarcasm* for now please, I think we shit up the thread enough
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EBWOP: I guess more specifically, what was it about the case that Hiro made that jumped out at you as being scummy
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Ok, fair enough, give me 2 mins.
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It's more a case of, his case jumped at me, and the follow up digging pulled up some "interesting" things.
Firstly: His cases are full of a LOT of bull:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 24 2012 06:58 HiroPro wrote:+ Show Spoiler [I don't think any of you guys ev…] +On May 22 2012 00:31 HiroPro wrote:There are two things that make me suspicious of Tunkeg. The first is the timing of Tunkeg's "I'm going to change it up" post. Either town or scum are capable of saying that they want to change their playstyle. If you look at this game, ET also says that he wants to change his play. But he does this BEFORE roles are out. The second is the way that Tunkeg responds to Acrofales's post against him: HE DOESN'T RESPOND. Show nested quote +
You don't like my opening post, and thats ok. ET is comming to my defense, and are voting for you. What is your take on this situation? Do you think ET have any motives for defending me, and if so what are they?
All he does is go "lolol someone coming to my defense" and try to shift attention onto ET "Do you think ET have any motives for defending me". Show nested quote +
@VE
What do yout hink of WBG's helpfull opening post? I ask you because you got the most experience with him. As a standard normal player I would put this as a pro-town. With WBG I am unsure, as he is thought of as one of the best scumplayers on TL, and I think he is capable of leveling us with these kinds of posts.
@WBG
If you were a dayvig and had to lynch someone right now, who would it be and why?
@Acrofalis
You don't like my opening post, and thats ok. ET is comming to my defense, and are voting for you. What is your take on this situation? Do you think ET have any motives for defending me, and if so what are they?
@NT
What do you think about Acrofalis play thus far?
@ET
Not to derail your arguemnent with Acrofalis to much, but what do you get out of Zealos posts thus far?
@Zealos
I can see why someone would throw out a random vote on someone to pressure as number one (even if I don't think it is a great way of pressuring).You do this as number two on VE, for no reason. And next you are sheeping ET on his Acrofalis vote. Why did you vote VE? And could elaborate why you are voting Acrofalis?
These questions are meaningless. Tunkeg doesn't actually pressure anyone. He doesn't follow up on them or use them in his "list of 'reads'". He says that he wants to post better analysis, but he doesn't actually do that. Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 00:14 Tunkeg wrote:
EchelonTee - Scum
So I have changed my mind. I had ET leaning town early on in the game, I was wrong. He is scum, and this is why:
1. He have been trying to appear active while not really being active. His post have mostly consisted of oneliners, soft accusations and defending others. I think his defence om me was for this purpose only. To appear active, get easy townpoints and be able to put down an early vote. Isolated I viewed his arguement with Acrofalis as townie, as he was sticking his head out. In hindsight I see this as mentioned above - a way to appear active.
2. He don't really want to give us his reads. I have asked him for reads two times, he ignores it. Why dodge questions like that if you are town? Sure, he might think they are trivial and not worth spending his time on. But I see refusing to answer questions as scummy.
3. He listed that he would be ok with lynching jeb, acid and Katina without any reason. Between them there are two newbies, who are an easy misslynch because they are inexperienced and Katina, who is famous for being very lurky (at least she have been in all games I have played with her), and is also a player that is easy to get a misslynch on.
4. He voted for jeb just before the deadline (on the deadline actually) without any reason. And in a very suspicious way: "When is the deadline", like he did it on purpose, so that he wouldn't have to post any reasoning to why he voted jeb, and not get hold accountable for it.
ET is my number one scumread. Feel free to discuss it or not, especially if you disagree. If you agreeyou are probably better off waiting until after the night is over. Because if ET is scum scumteam will probably lynch someone who agrees to make it less likely he get lynched on day 2. As for his "case" against ET, lol. Apparently, in Tunkeg world, being an active poster who pressures people is a scum trait. Tunkeg is a faker.
All this is, is quoting Tunkeg, then calling his case stupid. There's no substance at all, why isn't he actually trying to convince people that Tunkeg is mafia, instead of just saying LOLOLSCUM!111
Second: This still makes me lol: On May 24 2012 07:19 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On May 24 2012 00:14 Tunkeg wrote:
EchelonTee - Scum
So I have changed my mind. I had ET leaning town early on in the game, I was wrong. He is scum, and this is why:
1. He have been trying to appear active while not really being active. His post have mostly consisted of oneliners, soft accusations and defending others. I think his defence om me was for this purpose only. To appear active, get easy townpoints and be able to put down an early vote. Isolated I viewed his arguement with Acrofalis as townie, as he was sticking his head out. In hindsight I see this as mentioned above - a way to appear active.
2. He don't really want to give us his reads. I have asked him for reads two times, he ignores it. Why dodge questions like that if you are town? Sure, he might think they are trivial and not worth spending his time on. But I see refusing to answer questions as scummy.
3. He listed that he would be ok with lynching jeb, acid and Katina without any reason. Between them there are two newbies, who are an easy misslynch because they are inexperienced and Katina, who is famous for being very lurky (at least she have been in all games I have played with her), and is also a player that is easy to get a misslynch on.
4. He voted for jeb just before the deadline (on the deadline actually) without any reason. And in a very suspicious way: "When is the deadline", like he did it on purpose, so that he wouldn't have to post any reasoning to why he voted jeb, and not get hold accountable for it.
ET is my number one scumread. Feel free to discuss it or not, especially if you disagree. If you agreeyou are probably better off waiting until after the night is over. Because if ET is scum scumteam will probably lynch someone who agrees to make it less likely he get lynched on day 2. Oh look, your "number one scumread" died. How convenient. Guess that gives you more time to post useless questions and lists, huh. ##Vote Tunkeg
This is utter rubbish. It makes no sense whatsoever, and it seems strange that when a townie is killed, the first thing he thinks of is Tunkegs number one scumread. No looking into the reason of death or anything, just using it to continue to tunnel Tunkeg.
Thanks for the input, Tunkeg's scumbuddy. -- Thanks for the useful comment, Hiro.
Bla bla bla bla bla. I like saying useless WIFOM stuff to fill up my filter. I'm pretty sure your entire case after his number one scumread died was WIFOM. Are you secretly claiming scum in thread?
And then look at this gem:
On May 24 2012 08:27 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 08:22 marvellosity wrote:On May 24 2012 08:18 Zealos wrote:On May 24 2012 08:16 marvellosity wrote:Also, because it got lost on the last page: On May 24 2012 08:07 marvellosity wrote:On May 24 2012 07:12 Zealos wrote:On May 24 2012 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, I'm going to go with Zealos because he had concluded that he thought Jeb was likely town, yet thought he was a good lynch I'd have thought that anyone with half a brain would have realized that on a polarity lynch, you vote for whoever is most likely mafia, instead of those who you think are more likely mafia than not. Otherwise someone who is less likely scum imo would be lynched. Not to mention he was a useless town anyway. Convenient, then, that you decided not to spend the time looking for scum and instead deferred doing so until after the lynch. ##Vote: Zealos Zealos: why exactly is Hiro scum for arguing with you? I was asleep. Deal.Hiro isn't scum for arguing with me. He's scum for making a useless case that makes literally no sense at all. It feels like he made the case just for the sake of making the case, and as a result, it didn't make sense. Ok guys, we're lynching Zealos today. See bold for his excuse on not providing scumreads. See below timestamp for his post where he deferred his scumhunting: On May 23 2012 00:04 Zealos wrote:On May 23 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:On May 23 2012 00:00 Zealos wrote:On May 22 2012 23:59 marvellosity wrote:On May 22 2012 23:15 Zealos wrote:On May 22 2012 23:09 Mattchew wrote:On May 22 2012 22:41 Mouldy Jeb wrote:
yeah i had a feeling (OOOH AAAH) that that wasn't going to be understood, to explain, originally he voted for me for a reason he has yet to conger up then because of that random vote i felt that he was having a random vote so i voted for him. as a result of this he is trying to incriminate me by the whole "it reeks of terror and chaos shit"~~short and simple i don't like him i think he's scum trying to save his ass. "In a town shaped by the subtle machinations and political intrigue of its guilds, it's reassuring to see a goblin waving his torch and screaming about some nonsense or other." —Agrus Kos Lol. Gotta say I agree, I just don't understand what he's talking about o.O Terrible town, or terrible mafia imo.##vote: MouldyJeb Do you not have an opinion which? And presuming you do, why? Leaning on terrible town, because his team would have shut him up or at least coached him by now imo. Still strongest lynch atm though. Lurked to begin with, followed with nonsensical posting. You don't have a single scumread? No strong ones, no, I haven't had a good enough look over the thread. I'll look over everything at the end of the night, because even if I tried to make a case now it'd probably be too late to get anything done about it. 00:04 KST, otherwise known as 16:04 BST. Asleep my arse. This guy is fucking scummyscumscum. BOOM. We can lynch this guy today and Tunkeg tomorrow. ##Unvote
##Vote Zealos
"Ok, Tunkeg might not die, lets just hop on the bandwagon of someone who can actually construct proper cases, then continue tunneling Tunkeg after."
He is super duper red. Vote for him now?
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Alright, cool. The issue I have is that Hiro being as aggressive as he is doesn't fit into what I believe his play to be as scum.
I just went over his filter in Newbie VI to check this out. For the large part he was calm, reasoned, and somewhat lurky. Here he is aggressive and indiscriminate.
What do you make of this difference? Clicky here for his Newbie VI filter.
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Yeah, there's no doubt it's different, I just don't see why a town would post the way he does. Anyone with a reasonable level of logic would realize that his case made no sense, so I assume he did. So why did he make it in the first place, and try to back it up when it was clear it wasn't reasonable?
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I can at least understand where he's coming from with his case, even if I don't necessarily agree with it / it was badly presented. The big lists of questions, the fact that he said he was changing his meta AFTER roles went out (contrary to what VE remembered).
I just find it very hard to get to grips with atm that he'd change his scum meta from calm and reasoned to aggressive and pissing people off. It doesn't make sense to me.
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but does he have a town play when he's aggressive? If not, it kinda seems irrelevant, if it's a completely new meta for him.
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So my biggest problem this game is with Hiro and N_T as they both play in a way that I think is really stupid if you're town. Aggression per se is fine, but aggression coupled with a complete lack of logical coherence is terrible for town. The only motivations I can think of for this kind of behaviour is scum trying to look town or bad town play trying to emulate VE or BH style aggression (which is usually backed up with evidence and more importantly the ability to have your mind changed when faced with cogent argument).
This being said I have both Hiro and N_T are leaning scum.
The former because of his aggressive tunnelling of Tunkeg on very little evidence (change of playstyle argument: did it occur to you that perhaps its more difficult to change how you think/play than by just simply announcing it; regardless I fail to see how this change of playstyle is in anyway alignment-dependent) and a lot of OMGUS.
The latter because of his pretty disruptive D1 behaviour coupled with his recent 'cooling down' as soon as pressure subsided. NT, If you truly think the way you played D1 is a constructive way of playing townie why not continue? Been rebuked in scum-QT perhaps?
Of the two I think I would like an NT lynch, but mainly because if Hiro is not scum then its highly likely that Zealos and N_T are scumbuddies.:
On May 24 2012 20:02 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 17:44 wherebugsgo wrote:Is he gone? <peeks around a corner> Anyway if Acid never responds, we kill him. To make that threat more real, let's turn up the heat. ##vote Acid~Nova, do you support a lynch of any of Acid, zealos, or Tunkeg? Got a couple pages to catch up on, just saw this I would support an acid lynch and to some extent zealos, but I think theres a high chance of him being a frustrated townie
Soft defence much?
##Vote: Nova_Terra
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Also, Katina you need to get active, you should know that inactives kill town or usually get shot.
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On May 24 2012 22:49 Mattchew wrote:
##vote zelblade
Give reasoning plz
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I really don't think Hiro Pro is scum. To me it looks like a new guy trying to hard. His case on me is presented in a way that makes it hard for people to take it seriously. His main points towards me have been:
1. That I said I wanted to change my meta. I can understand some of you react to this. And it is a valid point in any analysis of me.
2. That I am posting only to try to look active and that my list of reads and questions are rubbish. This is very opinion based, I think asking question is just as valid a tactic as applying pressure. And to be honest not everyone can be pressured into a response, same way as not everyone will bother answering a question.
3. That I made a case on ET, and he died the same night. I can't see how anyone can read anything into this either for or against me. The point is I could do this as either town or scum, for instance gonzaw did this against all the nighthits in the newbiemafia game I was in, and he was scum.
So I think Hiro Pro is town, but wrong town. But there is the possibility that he is pulling the same thing as Katina did on me in BC:AC, tunneling me all game, me believing she was town, when she really was scum.
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On May 24 2012 22:57 froggynoddy wrote:So my biggest problem this game is with Hiro and N_T as they both play in a way that I think is really stupid if you're town. Aggression per se is fine, but aggression coupled with a complete lack of logical coherence is terrible for town. The only motivations I can think of for this kind of behaviour is scum trying to look town or bad town play trying to emulate VE or BH style aggression (which is usually backed up with evidence and more importantly the ability to have your mind changed when faced with cogent argument). This being said I have both Hiro and N_T are leaning scum. The former because of his aggressive tunnelling of Tunkeg on very little evidence (change of playstyle argument: did it occur to you that perhaps its more difficult to change how you think/play than by just simply announcing it; regardless I fail to see how this change of playstyle is in anyway alignment-dependent) and a lot of OMGUS. The latter because of his pretty disruptive D1 behaviour coupled with his recent 'cooling down' as soon as pressure subsided. NT, If you truly think the way you played D1 is a constructive way of playing townie why not continue? Been rebuked in scum-QT perhaps? Of the two I think I would like an NT lynch, but mainly because if Hiro is not scum then its highly likely that Zealos and N_T are scumbuddies.: Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 20:02 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 24 2012 17:44 wherebugsgo wrote:Is he gone? <peeks around a corner> Anyway if Acid never responds, we kill him. To make that threat more real, let's turn up the heat. ##vote Acid~Nova, do you support a lynch of any of Acid, zealos, or Tunkeg? Got a couple pages to catch up on, just saw this I would support an acid lynch and to some extent zealos, but I think theres a high chance of him being a frustrated townie Soft defence much? ##Vote: Nova_Terra
Nah thats just saying that i feel more comfortable with a lynch on acid, but i would still go to zealos
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EPT
