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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Please read the entire thread before signing up. Thank you.
*Nova_Terra will be co-hosting this game. Please ensure you send all night actions to both him and myself.
*Adam4167 and Probulous will be coaching this game. PM them for A+ advice.
Newbie Mini Mafia XII + Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction: Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules: Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account. 11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting: Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Rules specific to this game are also shown in blue text in this thread.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs: No smurfs please
Spam: Please keep out of topic chatter out of the thread.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
I expect everyone to treat each other civilly. Attack the argument, not the player. Failure to do so will result in a warning, followed by a modkill if inappropriate posting continues
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes here, and only vote here. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first is lynched. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. 7. Whomever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched!
Signups: This game is open to Newbies Only. That means 3 games or less played on TL.
Game-specific rules: Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements This game will use replacements if possible. You are encouraged to find your own replacement.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 23:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Special thanks to Bugs, for letting me steal his OP
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will very likely compensate for ignorance.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Setup Information
Overview:
This game uses a C9++ Setup: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++
The setup is a semi-open setup for 13 players; that is, all the possible roles are given but the number of each is not known. Not all of the roles will necessarily be present. Some of the roles may have limits on the number of times they may be used. This will be specified in the role PM. The game is inherently balanced for both sides depending on the types and numbers of roles that appear. The mafia win when they outnumber the town or they reach a scenario when this becomes inevitable. Town wins by eliminating all mafia members. Mafia kill power is always 1.
Town Roles
Vanilla Town + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You are a simpleton villager. Your job is to rid the town of all mafia. You're also seriously badass.
Miller + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You are a miller. For whatever odd reason, you're the town scapegoat and so appear guilty to all investigative checks. You have one vote and win with town, by killing all the mafia.
Mason + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + You are a member of this society: along with (playername here). You are both members of the town. You may communicate with each other privately by any means you wish; a QT has been provided for you at (linkhere). You win with town when all mafia members have been put under the ground.
Cop + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You're a stud. As such, you may check one person (once/every night) and will receive back either guilty or innocent.. You may vote once per day and win when town has eliminated all the criminal mafia.
Doctor + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You're Gregory House. As a medical genius, you have the power to save lives. You may choose one person to protect (one night/every night) and you will protect them from 1 KP. If your protection stops a hit, both you and your target will be informed. You may vote once per day and your goal is to rid the town of the scum Italian mafia who stole your motorcycle.
Roleblocker + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You're the hottest girl in town. Everyone wants some of you, and they'll drop everything to get it. Thus, (once at/every) night you will be able to tie up someone and have your way with them, preventing them from doing anything or going anywhere until the crack of dawn. Though you're naughty, you win when all the bad guys in red have been killed.
Vigilante + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You are the most conservative member of town, and as such you really enjoy exercising your 2nd Amendment rights to shoot criminals in the face. You have a gun with X bullets and you may shoot if you so wish at night. You are only refunded your bullet if you are roleblocked when you try to shoot. You win when all the mafia have ceased to breathe.
Mafia Roles
Goon + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You are just a hitman for the mafia and your name is distinctly Italian. Enough talk, just go out there and start killing things. Your family can kill one person per night by choosing one of you to carry out the deed. You win when your family outnumbers the town. You may talk to each other at any time in private by any means you wish; for your convenience, a QT has been provided at (link)
Roleblocker + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You break bones for a living. Either that or you just smooth talk people. Whatever you feel like, really. As such, once per night you may choose one person to roleblock. That person will be informed that he or she was roleblocked. You may also carry out kills for the mafia. You may communicate privately with your friend(s) (name(s) here) in any manner you wish; a QT has been provided at (link here) for your convenience.
Godfather + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + Over the years, you've gone by a number of different names. Al Capone, Dick Cheney, Julius Caesar, Elmo, and Martha Stewart all come to mind. Now, however, you want to just retire. In order to do so, though, you must first kill everyone who is not part of your family, because you are highly allergic to non-related people. They make you sick. At your disposal is your uncanny ability to appear as anything you wish. As such you can choose to appear "innocent" to all investigations, if you so wish. By night one you must decide whether you want to mask yourself to investigations. You may also communicate privately with your family member(s) name(s) here in any manner you wish. A QT has been provided at (link here) for your convenience.
Framer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +blahblahblah standard scum fluff here you win when you outnumber town your teammates are here and you have a QT here, you may target one person per night, causing them to display the opposite alignment to any cops who choose to investigate them for that night only. You may not target yourself.
Notes
There will NOT be a serial killer this game.
If two roleblockers target each other, neither is informed of anything (it's as if no actions were made)
Masons who are roleblocked will not be prevented from communicating with their partner(s).
Masons are confirmed town to each other.
One person on the mafia team may carry out the kill each night. The mafia can choose not to kill. The mafia can kill each other. If the mafia member chosen to kill on a particular night is roleblocked, no kill will occur.
Millers are self-aware.
If there are any questions about the setup, they may either be PMed to me or posted in the thread in bold green text
*Shamelessly stolen from Wherebugsgo without permission
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Won't everyone know the hottest girl in town. XD!
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/in @BroodKingEXE hottest girl say what?
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When we play Mafia in real life we call that role The Lindsay Lohan
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/out upon further reflection, this game might still be going when D3 drops and I'll be pretty much playing nothing but that. GL
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oh the kinky roleblocker .. yes that rather inconsistent
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No Scum for Me!!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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From the Negative point of things that's half empty
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On May 06 2012 05:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:From the Negative point of things that's half empty well played
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On May 06 2012 05:13 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 05:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:From the Negative point of things that's half empty well played
You play well 3:1 on TL, I'm only 1:2
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/out sry, would've loved to (̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾) ̿ ̿ ‘̿’\̵͇̿̿\з=(•̪●)=ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿̿̿̿ ̿ ̿ (̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾) but some shit came up
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On May 06 2012 05:39 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 05:13 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 06 2012 05:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:From the Negative point of things that's half empty well played You play well 3:1 on TL, I'm only 1:2 heh, thanks, my townie play is still awful though
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Feel its bad timing to do this right after two newbie games just started, but oh well
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
/in First TL Mafia game after lurking! :D
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On May 06 2012 07:14 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 05:39 BroodKingEXE wrote:On May 06 2012 05:13 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 06 2012 05:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:From the Negative point of things that's half empty well played You play well 3:1 on TL, I'm only 1:2 heh, thanks, my townie play is still awful though Whose isn't? Town play has been suffering for the past months, according to BH.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 06 2012 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Feel its bad timing to do this right after two newbie games just started, but oh well
Well, this is actually the 7th Newbie game in a row. We've been putting up one for sign-ups the moment the previous one starts. That way there is always a game in sign-ups for people to play.
If the demand for newbie games dies down(which perhaps it is), then we will start running them a little sparser.
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Maybe its just that I singed up so soon.
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I would like to join but not enough time to keep up, can i get in on the obs qt after this starts?
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On May 07 2012 08:31 BroodKingEXE wrote: Gummy, interesting... Just you watch as I carry XII to victory! Edit: I make every game I play in interesting!
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On May 07 2012 23:46 Gummy wrote:Just you watch as I carry XII to victory! Edit: I make every game I play in interesting!
Are you sure you are not another 4Face smurf lol.
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On May 07 2012 23:48 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 23:46 Gummy wrote:On May 07 2012 08:31 BroodKingEXE wrote: Gummy, interesting... Just you watch as I carry XII to victory! Edit: I make every game I play in interesting! Are you sure you are not another 4Face smurf lol. Actually I made an account and got it up to almost 2k posts just so I could smurf a newbie mini
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On May 07 2012 23:50 Gummy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 23:48 Mementoss wrote:On May 07 2012 23:46 Gummy wrote:On May 07 2012 08:31 BroodKingEXE wrote: Gummy, interesting... Just you watch as I carry XII to victory! Edit: I make every game I play in interesting! Are you sure you are not another 4Face smurf lol. Actually I made an account and got it up to almost 2k posts just so I could smurf a newbie mini Actually, Its very likely that he would do something like that and judging by ur play gummy
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There are no smurfs of mine in this game, I need to investigate why people say that about Gummy and give my verdict of worthiness for him to be called 4Fish.
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Lol. I love talking to myself
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Really? A careful reading of the thread will reveal my true alignment is town!
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But no more talking about XII in XIII :<
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Please exclude dahdum from this game. He was not active in XII and should not be permitted to play in this one.
Darkfire made his account a few days ago and has no posts. He shouldn't be permitted to play either. I don't mind waiting a bit longer if it ensures that the people who play are all playing to win
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Alright, I cave. I'll give this a shot.
/in
Go easy on a newbie, 1st game anywhere ever =D
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Welcome to TL Mafia BioSC!!!!
@Gummy Matt would've banned/modkilled them if they were playing badly. Don't need to give them a bad rap.
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/in
if there is still room sign me up please
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lets' go? i'm in if that wasnt obvious
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It annoys me to no end that the first 'I' in "MIni" has accidentally been capitalized.
GMarshal?
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Iceland22590 Posts
I find this Gummy kid hilarious!
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On May 08 2012 06:57 Gummy wrote:Please exclude dahdum from this game. He was not active in XII and should not be permitted to play in this one.Darkfire made his account a few days ago and has no posts. He shouldn't be permitted to play either. I don't mind waiting a bit longer if it ensures that the people who play are all playing to win
Don't do this. This is why we have hosts.
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United States22154 Posts
I fixed the I in Mini because it was capitalized and bothering me
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/in Hopefully, I will live until day 2 in this game.
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I'm assuming no lynches aren't allowed, correct? If they aren't allowed, should I just assume from now on that unless the op specifically mentions no lynches, they aren't in the game?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 08 2012 23:57 Crossfire99 wrote: I'm assuming no lynches aren't allowed, correct? If they aren't allowed, should I just assume from now on that unless the op specifically mentions no lynches, they aren't in the game?
That's basically correct. In general, we have three standard styles of voting on TL.
1. Plurality Lynch: Whomever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. There is no possibility of a no-lynch in this setup, hence one is not allowed to vote for a no-lynch.
2. Extended Majority Lynch: If anyone has a majority(half the eligible votes) at the end of the day, then that player is lynched. If no one has a majority a the end of the day, it ends in a no-lynch. You can pretty much always vote 'no-lynch' in this setup. This setup punishes inexperienced towns pretty hard.
3. Instant Majority Lynch: If anyone at ANY TIME reaches a majority, they are instantly lynched and the game goes into either an extended night phase or twilight. You can generally vote no-lynch in this setup, and can often end up not voting at all if someone gets a majority before you vote.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Game will begin tomorrow night at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). Role PMs will go out sometime tomorrow evening
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Excellent. Lets get it on.
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How does the filter button work? I know what it does, but I also know it doesn't exist in other threads I've visited. Is it something that the op has to do?
Also is there a way to send one pm to multiple recipients like to both hosts? I tried to do this in my last game, but I was having trouble.
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The filter just does exactly that, it filters a person's posts. You should see on the top right of every post the world filter which is underlined. Click it and find out.
No, there is no way to send multiple PMs at once. If you have a question that relates to many people, just post it in thread.
Guys, reminder that if you want coaching, Adam and I are available. Basic questions about setup, playstyles and logic are generally the go. As long as you stay away from specific players we should be able to help.
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/in ¿? or is it too late?
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What is with all these non-thread /ins?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 09 2012 14:52 Unforgiven_ve wrote: /in ¿? or is it too late?
Apparently not as Zen Man just left. You'll get a role PM tonight Unforgiven.
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On May 09 2012 19:24 Radfield wrote:Apparently not as Zen Man just left. You'll get a role PM tonight Unforgiven.
Can't wait
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Role PMs are going out. Please refrain from posting until the Day 1 post.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
All Role PMs are out. If you have not received a Role PM please let me know. Game will start in about 2 hours!
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On May 09 2012 20:43 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 19:24 Radfield wrote:On May 09 2012 14:52 Unforgiven_ve wrote: /in ¿? or is it too late? Apparently not as Zen Man just left. You'll get a role PM tonight Unforgiven. Can't wait
Oh man, did this just become even more pertinent ?
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Dont forget, if you have a question relating to the setup, how the game is played, etc, feel free to PM Radfield or myself. And theres coaches for a reason, if you want help with the game itself or just someone to talk to to think about your decisions with you, feel free to ask one of them. We all love you, so dont be afraid!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 1!
They look like you and me. They talk like you and me. But they do not Act like you and me.
There are Mafia in your midst, and they are coming for you, unless you get them first.
You have until Friday May 11, 23:00 GMT (+00:00) to cast your votes.
A few reminders:
*Please do not mention the wording in your PM, or try to breadcrumb your specific PM in any fashion.
*Remember that there are two coaches for this game, ready and willing to give advice.
*All night actions must be sent to both myself and Nova_Terra.
*This game is based on a C9++ setup, but does not follow it exactly.
*If you need to find yourself a replacement, please PM me directly. Do NOT post your request in the thread.
* Do not edit your posts. Double or Triple post if necessary.
*Keep personal attacks out of the game. We are here to have fun, lets ensure that we all do.
Have fun everyone. I think this is going be a great game!
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Hi all, this is my second game on TL, the first one we had mass role claim and no-lynch first day, let's not repeat that here and focus on hunting scum.
In the absence of other first day clues, I will push to lynch lurkers / low content / indecisive players.
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Sounds like a solid strategy. Basic, but solid. Getting rid of lurkers/low content players seems like a win/win. If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Seems like the first couple of hours will be spent waiting on the rest of the players to get here. Yay for idle chatter.
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Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post.
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Right, I didn't mean to say: "HEY <insert guy who hasn't posted since PM'S went out> IS A LURKER"
Just as a general: This is an ok thing for town to do once we all know who is actually playing/participating.
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this is exactly why i always hated day starts.
just posting to let people know i'm here and ready to jump the big gun!
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On May 10 2012 08:56 Hyaach wrote: this is exactly why i always hated day starts.
just posting to let people know i'm here and ready to jump the big gun!
Guys! He said he has a gun! He's OBVIOUSLY SCUM!
. . .
I kid... or do I?
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On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. Hey Tofu, yes we should wait, and I'm sure we'll get better clues than complete inactivity, but it has to be an option.
I hope you aren't mafia again This sounds like something a mafia would say.
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/confirm
Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post.
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On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia.
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On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: Sounds like a solid strategy. Basic, but solid. Getting rid of lurkers/low content players seems like a win/win. If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Seems like the first couple of hours will be spent waiting on the rest of the players to get here. Yay for idle chatter.
Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid.
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sup people, just reporting in.
Just for your information, im not a native english speaker, so if im not clear when i post let me know. I do think lynching lurkers is a "good" strategy just not on day 1, i think we should wait so everyone can post and "talk" a little bit.
On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
lol, this is "suspicious" to me
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On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post.
What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum.
##Vote: Firm Tofu
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EBWOP: Convince me you're not scum.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Hi everybody, just read through everything, before heading out. I guess there is nothing wrong woth pressuring lurkers into posting, but we should make sure we do not just lynch a random lurker, who happened to post not enough. Going through the thread until now, this was quite an oddity:
On May 10 2012 08:56 Hyaach wrote: this is exactly why i always hated day starts.
just posting to let people know i'm here and ready to jump the big gun!
This post strikes me as a somewhat suspicious one. The previous posts dealt with lynching lurkers and as a response you make a post, stating that you are not lurking, but nothing else. This seems weird to me as nobody pressured precisely you. They were just stating a general idea to get by and you just ignored the issue of lynching lurkers in your post. Maybe you just lacked time, it is just day1 anyway, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on you.
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Hello everyone!
I agree to pressure the lurkers, but its only the first few hours of the game. What are everyone's thoughts on the aggressiveness so far? Note: BroodKingEXE, dahdum , Darkfirex5 , Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi already having "suspicions"
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On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: Sounds like a solid strategy. Basic, but solid. Getting rid of lurkers/low content players seems like a win/win. If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Seems like the first couple of hours will be spent waiting on the rest of the players to get here. Yay for idle chatter. Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid.
... Which is exactly what I said. Lurkers/Low content players. NOT inactives. Though, I fail to see the difference in saying don't lynch inactives. If we call out lurkers and they don't respond, are they not by definition inactives? Either way, making lurkers either provide help to the town or getting rid of inactives helps out the town, as I said in my first post.
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On May 10 2012 15:01 Jailbreaker wrote: Hello everyone!
I agree to pressure the lurkers, but its only the first few hours of the game. What are everyone's thoughts on the aggressiveness so far? Note: BroodKingEXE, dahdum , Darkfirex5 , Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi already having "suspicions"
Now I'm suspicious of you, what's the point of that post? A list of people who've posted so far and vague agreement with the general consensus.
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On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum.
I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm.
##Vote FirmTofu
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On May 10 2012 15:14 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 15:01 Jailbreaker wrote: Hello everyone!
I agree to pressure the lurkers, but its only the first few hours of the game. What are everyone's thoughts on the aggressiveness so far? Note: BroodKingEXE, dahdum , Darkfirex5 , Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi already having "suspicions" Now I'm suspicious of you, what's the point of that post? A list of people who've posted so far and vague agreement with the general consensus.
No, no, no, no! You misunderstand! I believe that some players have confused being "active" with "aggressive." Give players time to post their defense, the game just started after five days of signups. How would it feel to wake up to some shit storm with your name on it?
I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post
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On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu
While I agree that the back half of his post is worthy of discussion, I would hope that simply saying that him hoping you aren't mafia is worthy of a lynch. Maybe it's just me, but that simply sounds as if he remembers you from a previous game, and perhaps you did well as mafia then. I feel like the mafia/town alignment of a previous game shouldn't be a factor in deciding whom to lynch in THIS game.
Posting style, however, can and most likely should be used. A lot of people are shooting off votes 4ish hours into the day, and while it's majority vote at the end of the day, I think there are better ways of getting people to speak up without throwing around votes on a whim. Let's see what Firm has to say.
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On May 10 2012 16:12 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote:On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu While I agree that the back half of his post is worthy of discussion, I would hope that simply saying that him hoping you aren't mafia is worthy of a lynch. Maybe it's just me, but that simply sounds as if he remembers you from a previous game, and perhaps you did well as mafia then. I feel like the mafia/town alignment of a previous game shouldn't be a factor in deciding whom to lynch in THIS game. Posting style, however, can and most likely should be used. A lot of people are shooting off votes 4ish hours into the day, and while it's majority vote at the end of the day, I think there are better ways of getting people to speak up without throwing around votes on a whim. Let's see what Firm has to say.
Actually, throwing around votes is an excellent way of getting people to speak up. You're defending him right now, he'll respond, and we can interpret later if/when he flips what that says about you.
We were in the last game together so I also have a better sense of his style than I do of the rest of you.
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I would like to point out day starts always ends up in lurker hunting. its mostly the norm. And one wrong read most of the time lead to a badly made vote at the end of day. and this is a 24 hour game which rush active conversation even more. btw people realize than lynching lurkers and inactive r different and at the start is not always benefitual to town. Every town lynch is a day wasted and a vote less in a majority vote game.
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On May 10 2012 16:40 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 16:12 BioSC wrote:On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote:On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu While I agree that the back half of his post is worthy of discussion, I would hope that simply saying that him hoping you aren't mafia is worthy of a lynch. Maybe it's just me, but that simply sounds as if he remembers you from a previous game, and perhaps you did well as mafia then. I feel like the mafia/town alignment of a previous game shouldn't be a factor in deciding whom to lynch in THIS game. Posting style, however, can and most likely should be used. A lot of people are shooting off votes 4ish hours into the day, and while it's majority vote at the end of the day, I think there are better ways of getting people to speak up without throwing around votes on a whim. Let's see what Firm has to say. Actually, throwing around votes is an excellent way of getting people to speak up. You're defending him right now, he'll respond, and we can interpret later if/when he flips what that says about you. We were in the last game together so I also have a better sense of his style than I do of the rest of you.
Read what I posted again. I threw my suspicions towards him as well. Not sure what about my post was defending him.
Fair enough point about his style. Though I did mention that as well. Again, I want to hear from him before immediately calling Lynch. I haven't cast my vote yet either.
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Also, I'm heading off to bed, I'll check on the thread once I wake up. Hopefully Firm and the others whom have yet to come forward do. Good Night.
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maybe it is because of time difference. but i strongly urge the remaining players to participate. 12 hours is gone already and we still have people not yet joining the debate not that we have any.
2.Mufaa 3.austinmcc 8.Crossfire99 12.Anacletus
What are your thoughts so far on firmtofu?
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I know it took my a while to check in, had a date last night and then went to sleep.
So far my thoughts on FirmTofu are nonexistant. He posted once, 40 minutes into a game. It's a 48 hour day/24 hour night cycle, so I see no reason to be chomping at the bit to lynch him. I'm in agreement with him that we should give everyone a chance to post. Game just now started, and depending on your timezone most of the time it's been running was overnight.
Instead, I'm much more in favor of what you just did actually. Point out specific names--who isn't posting, hasn't been contributing--and start looking for responses. Anyone entirely inactive is going to get modkilled, so let's force activity out of those we can, get discussion rolling, and build up a bigger body of posts to analyze.
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I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit.
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oh i kept reading it as 24 hour day. guess its 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle so we still got 1 full day ahead.
##Vote Anacletus
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On May 10 2012 23:28 Hyaach wrote: oh i kept reading it as 24 hour day. guess its 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle so we still got 1 full day ahead.
##Vote Anacletus
What's your reasoning behind voting for me?
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No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm
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On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm
It was for a misspell.
I don't understand what your line about FirmTofu is saying, it makes no sense.
I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean.
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i meant i think whatever firmtofu wrote was just a casual remark.
you seem to know a awful lot about how the mafia plans to play their game don't you.
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On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm It was for a misspell. I don't understand what your line about FirmTofu is saying, it makes no sense. I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean.
No editing period. You can mess up your whole quoting system + Show Spoiler +like this[quote[quote[quote[] ]]] [/quote][/quote][/quote], but editing is illegal.
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On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit.
This is an awful reason to vote for a lynch. We've got almost 36 hours of day 1 left, and while we should be drumming up discussion, this doesn't help.
You say you have nothing to add. Why vote based on that? You don't give any reason for your vote at all, and if you have nothing to add then why vote Tofu over anyone else. A vote like that is absolutely unhelpful to town. You mention his "suspicious behavior," but what behavior was that? How was his post overly suspicious to you? You haven't posted anything of note yet either, why vote Tofu for no reason and then be surprised/demand a reason for someone voting you?
Moreover, no, we can't confirm town/mafia based on votes that easy. If we have multiple lynch candidates, then sure, maybe the majority of the mafia vote for a townie. But so far, we just have some random votes on Tofu for no real reason. Mafia can just hide votes in there, even if he were scum, and you learn nothing from the votes. If we want any info from voting, we need more candidates.
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1.- Jailbreaker, as you see in my post i wrote "lol" ahead of it, meaning im not serious about it, its just when a kid screams "IM NOT HIDING IN HERE"...i stand my point about waiting EVERYONE to post something, Hyaach has a point, if MOD sees those persons are active and they are not posting here, theres something going on, but still, lurking would be our only clue and i think thats not enough in day 1, but In the last minute i would vote for a lurker if mod desnt replace them tho.
2.- Anacletus, remember mafia can always kill some of their members to appear innocent, but yeah, maybe not on day 1. Also, i dont like your first post being a direct vote
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On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote: I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean.
I can agree with this to a point, but they're going to have to vote at some point. I'm more suspicious of someone who votes just to vote, but without a decent reason, than I am of someone who hasn't voted. Not voting is the sensible play if you don't have a reason to vote someone yet. Voting just to vote doesn't help town at all, and sheeping someone else's vote, especially when there's not really much reasoning behind that vote, certainly doesn't help town.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Anacletus your reasoning seems pretty "bad". You do not give anything new to the discussion, instead your very first post was a vote on FirmTofu without any remark how you came to that decision. Even saying that you don't have anything to add.
also the bolded part of your quote:
On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit.
seems to me like either a really bad conclusion as a townie or as a scum seeking a way to gain town credibility by jumping on the next best bandwagon...
Care to elaborate on your decision? Otherwise you'll have my vote as of now your play is ridiculously fishy and scummy.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
A reminder Anacletus, no editing for any reason. If you want to request an edit to fix a dropped quote tag or something you can PM me and I might allow it.
I highly recommend liberal use of the preview function instead.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On another note I think Tofu's post was much more of careless Smalltalk than really a suspicious post, therefore he (at least for now) should not be lynched in my opinion. As it stands now I really want to get a reasonable explanation out of Anacletus as he seems to be the scummiest guy right now.
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On May 10 2012 23:49 Hyaach wrote: i meant i think whatever firmtofu wrote was just a casual remark.
you seem to know a awful lot about how the mafia plans to play their game don't you.
I've played mafia before. That being said nothing that I say is guaranteed so playing one playstyle will probably let them metagame us. I was only throwing out my 2 cents. Also, maybe I'm metagaming knowing mafia will read this.
The hole goes deeper.
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I don't understand why everyone is not liking Firmtofu's first post + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. .He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
As for me, I am only in favor of lynching lurkers as an absolute last resort. I feel we need to do our best scumhunting and if we do a good job, we can lynch a scum.
Right now I am suspicious of Anacletus. He comes in and votes for Firmtofu as his first post with no explanation, but then gives this terrible reason for voting in his next post + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. He basically says he is just bandwagoning and not thinking for himself and this is just terrible. He then questions why Hyaach voted for him and defends himself with this + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:It was for a misspell. I don't understand what your line about FirmTofu is saying, it makes no sense. I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean. . He goes on theorizing about how mafia would play day 1. How do you know that they want to play like? Honestly I think people who are vocal in the thread, but don't through their vote around willy-nilly and don't just follow whatever the current train is in the thread are smart. It's the poeple who vote without any good reason who are suspicious to me.
What say you Anacletus?
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Also this beauty just came from Anacletus + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 00:09 Anacletus wrote:I've played mafia before. That being said nothing that I say is guaranteed so playing one playstyle will probably let them metagame us. I was only throwing out my 2 cents. Also, maybe I'm metagaming knowing mafia will read this. The hole goes deeper. . This is way too much metagaming nonsense. We have no idea how mafia will play. Why bother guessing and wasting our time wondering how they will play? Just read everyone's posts and look for scummy behavior. Everyone's posts are the only information we have and the only information we need to find scum.
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Anacletus, why, specifically, did you vote Tofu?
All you've said is:
suspicious behavior
In your original vote. But you didn't tell us what you found suspicious.
On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:
I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean.
Say you think this, why vote Tofu? He posted once, 40 minutes into the game, and hasn't been active. That's not vocal in chat. His activity so far this game doesn't fit the pattern that you believe to be scummy.
Town's job isn't to care about what gameplan mafia may or may not have. Our job is to hunt scum. To me, your vote on Tofu, especially as it runs against your own reasoning, looks scummy or newbie townish. Yet you say you've played games elsewhere before.
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On May 10 2012 16:06 Jailbreaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 15:14 dahdum wrote:On May 10 2012 15:01 Jailbreaker wrote: Hello everyone!
I agree to pressure the lurkers, but its only the first few hours of the game. What are everyone's thoughts on the aggressiveness so far? Note: BroodKingEXE, dahdum , Darkfirex5 , Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi already having "suspicions" Now I'm suspicious of you, what's the point of that post? A list of people who've posted so far and vague agreement with the general consensus. No, no, no, no! You misunderstand! I believe that some players have confused being "active" with "aggressive." Give players time to post their defense, the game just started after five days of signups. How would it feel to wake up to some shit storm with your name on it? I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt.
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The_Zen_Man is still listed as a player on the filter list.
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EBWOP: The_Zen_Man is still list as a player on the filter list. My bad on the colour.
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What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it.
On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets.
There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly.
Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start.
On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit.
This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing.
See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble.
Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead.
Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!"
When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia.
##vote:Anacletus
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On May 11 2012 03:56 FirmTofu wrote:What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets. There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly. Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing. See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble. Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead. Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!" When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia. ##vote:Anacletus This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though.
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@Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none.
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Not sure if I'm supposed to vote in a different format from the other newbie game, but I checked the rules and it says vote like this:
##vote Anacletus
Please forgive my terrible punctuation and sentence structure in my previous post. I only got 3 hours of sleep last night.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Well not saying anything in regards to our suspicions is kind of an answer I guess. Although we still have until Friday I'll be voting for Anacletus now. Maybe you will answer us if we increase the pressure.
I think it already made clear my suspicions but just for the record I'll do it again:
The below excerpts are all from Anacletus' filter:
Before gamestart we have these posts:
+ Show Spoiler +Can't wait Oh man, did this just became even more pertinent ?
Taking these I would assume that he is somebody who is eager to play this game. But as soon as the game starts there are no posts of him. Kind of odd if he was really that psyched to begin playing. Between day1-post and Anacletus first post are about 15 hours of time in which he did nothing. Even if we take different timezones and other committments (such as school/job/college) this seems to me as a long period of time in which a eager player did absolutely nothing.
Continuing the analysis with his first post:
##Vote FirmTofu
It is basically a naked vote-post without any reasoning behind it. Now adding his second post to it:
+ Show Spoiler +I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit.
His reasoning is basically that he likes to jump onto the first slowly emerging bandwagon in the thread. Although there are "only" 2 votes on FirmTofu at the moment, it could easily turn into a quick and easy lynch-target if more people changed their minds about him (My thoughts on tofu are in my previous post) The second part of his post is a conclusion that all people who vote for FirmTofu are Town if FirmTofu flips Mafia. This conclusion is utter nonsense (at least in my opinion). There is nothing that prevents Mafia from voting each other if they believe it to be necessary. Furthermore the logic is flawed as going with it, everybody who votes in a mislynch on a townie must be mafia according to Anacletus. The point is simply that nobody is a confirmed townie until he flips.
Anacletus' next post is a weird contradiction of his own logic. He states that he believes the following:
+ Show Spoiler +I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean.
In his opinion the following things are characteristic of scum: vocal, not voting and directing the discussion in a way they see fit.
Now compare these to the filter of FirmTofu, which consists of exactly one post. He is neither vocal nor directing, the only fitting one is "not-voting". But considering it was one of the very first posts after the gamestart that is not all too surprising.
His until now last post were a few sentences about metagaming, which are in no relation to the mounting pressure we have put on him. So he is actively avoiding to answer us, glaringly obvious by the fact that he has not tried to defend himself. This is really fishy. If he is a townie, he should defend himself, explain his thoughprocess and state his reasons why he believes FirmTofu to be a good Day1-Lynch instead of disappearing into lurker-state again as the pressure adds up.
Concluding from these points I believe it to be really clear that Anacletus is contradicting himself as his actions are not following his words. This strikes me as a really scummy behaviour, especially if we also consider his sudden inactiveness after gamestart and after the accusations and suspicions on him started to add up. To me Anacletus is scum, who tried to push the developing pressure on FirmTofu into an unstoppable bandwagon for an easy mislynch on day1.
Now that I have firmly established my point of view:
##Vote: Anacletus
Anacletus seems to be clearly scum, which is helping us a lot. If we look at the setup of 13 players I would take the guess that we probably have 3 mafia (considering that the last newbie mafia game had 9 players with a 7/2-split). So who might be the other members?
I had suspected Hyaach first and he remains hard to read. His later posts are better than his first as they are actually related to the current discussion. His vote on Anacletus seems reasonable as well given my argumentation above. Although it seems obvious why he is pressuring Anacletus a little bit of explanation of your reasoning would in my eyes go a long way to gain more credibility as a townie. His posts still lack analysis, length and depth, which makes him still kind of fishy.
After my initial suspects Anacletus and Hyaach let's just go through the players as they are listed in the OP.
BroodkingEXE: -Replied on a middleground on the matter of lynching lurkers, which is fine with me -First one to pressure FirmTofu -Unvoted Tofu as soon as he read the defense -Suspicious of Anacletus He seems to be pro-town as his play seems solid. Utilizing pressure to gain more information, but no one is confirmed town until he flips. So yeah, I am inclined to place him as townie but in Mafia you can never be certain.
Mufaa: -Not a single post..... Guess he is either a hardcore-lurker, which makes him a scum-candidate, or just lost interest and will be modkilled at night/end of day1. Nothing more to say I guess.
austinmcc: -Defends Tofu a bit -Pressures Anacletus He seems to be reasonable to me. Although he does not have too many posts, they seem well thought out and transparent. I would tend to read him as a townie, but as I said before nobody is confirmed townie until they flip.
Jailbreaker: -2 Posts which do not have a lot of content -Got defensive after dahdum pressured him a bit -waiting for everyone to post before voting Hard to tell to be honest, but I would count him as a possible scum. Low amount of posting with close to 0 information/usefullness in them. Got defensive as soon as somebody pressured him a bit and the withholding of his vote before "everybody" had a chance to post seems fishy to me. Keep your eyes on him.
Dahdum: -Makes the first post of the game -Pressures Tofu, then Jailbreaker before voting on FirmTofu Generally aggressive pressure style with his posts, compared to his playstyle in Newbie Mafia XII, it seems like a complete switch. Not sure what to make out of him yet.
Darkfirex5: -slight pressure in his first and only post on BioSC No clue, I need more posts to make something out of him. But inactiveness after putting out a suspicion does not help in making him a townie.
Crossfire99: -2 posts and first one quite a bit after the start of the game -Defends Tofu -Pressures Anacletus Solid posts from him thus far. The number of posts are a bit disappointing but that could be due to time restraints. I am inclined to put him on the townie side, but remember, no one is confirmed townie until he flips.
FirmTofu: -2 posts, first is some small talk with almost no content -2nd post seems like a good defense against the accusations and some well-written pressure on Anacletus Seems to be a townie, but a rather inactive one. And because I am sick of reiterating myself again and again, NOICTUHF (No one is confirmed townie until he flips)
unforgiven_ve: -2 posts until now, which do not tell us a lot. -Slightly suspicious of Anacletus Cannnot say much about him, as his posts were short and not very informative.
BisoSC: -Suspcious of FirmTofu (not sure if he was serious about it) -defends the view that people should be allowed to post before we lynch inactive/lurker Nothing more to say, strikes me as a townie for now, but NOICTUHF.
So in closing remarks of this rather long post, what are my suspicions?
Scumteam: Anacletus, Mufaa, ???? (Could be any of us, but I am inclined to believe him out of the group of: Jailbreaker, Dahdum, hyaach, darkfirex5)
If Mufaa gets modkilled I will have to get two people out of aforementioned group obviously.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
##Vote Anacletus
now correctly formatted
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WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon.
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i actually had all the reasons to vote him.
Firstly, i was against the vote on FirmTofu because suspicion over his 'imho' casual remark was pretty funny. To me, there was actually nothing suspicious over that post but it indeed generated some discussion. BKE was asking for convincing left and right. BioSC was sitting neutral the whole time. Dahdum was pretty aggressive from the get go.
So while we waited for his response, i tried to generated some other chatter by pointing out lurkers/inactives who have not yet posted.
The first response by austinmcc seemed not too shabby to me not because he agreed with my method, but he actually showed that he bothered to catch up with the thread and give his input. The second response was a direct vote without any reasoning. (its like my first post; ready to jump the gun)
that was enough reason for me to vote and i believe people caught up with the train and are now starting to pressure Anacletus
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon.
Where was I defending hyaach? I merely gave him the benefit of doubt. If you read carefully I said he remains fishy and I put him onto the list of suspected scum. If that is defending to you I can't help you.
considering that we only have day1, there is not a lot you can read into. I just did my best and thought it might be a good idea to share my list with you for more input/discussion. And I do give sure reads. I am pretty sure Anacletus is scum, reread that paragraph again if you do not see it. I also point out some suspicious things with several players. Again considering the number of posts we have to do reads and the information we have until now, I do think that my list is not that bad. You are invited to proof me wrong.
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Well, shit, I guess opting to lynch someone because several others were voting for them was silly.
I'm not mafia TT
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ShiaoPi,
In reference to your read on dahdum in Newbie XII, I remembered this quote from the postgame there:
Yay!
I was very active in the QT thread....the idea was to be sketchy enough to get Tofu to check & clear me, while avoiding an outright lynch.
I'd agree that his playstyle is different in XIII, but I don't really want to try and read anyone's meta off of one newbie game. He IS posting more, but that could be anything out of: (a) being more comfortable, (b) being town and keeping activity in the thread and not QT, (c) having a different strategy for his play as scum.
Now that we've got some more posts and activity, I'll take a look through filters this evening and try and actually post some cases. Still suspicious of Anacletus, but we've created quite the wagon for him here, and so for now I'm just going to leave him be until he responds to our concerns.
I do like that we've started discussing the field as a whole, good to make sure we don't tunnel too hard on Anacletus so that we've got more reads to work off of and more pressure to get everyone active.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On May 11 2012 04:43 Anacletus wrote: Well, shit, I guess opting to lynch someone because several others were voting for them was silly.
I'm not mafia TT
Is that your defense? Seriously?
BroodkingEXE if you believe me scum and starting a scumwagon, I would like to know the reasons how you came to that assumption.
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On May 11 2012 04:46 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:43 Anacletus wrote: Well, shit, I guess opting to lynch someone because several others were voting for them was silly.
I'm not mafia TT Is that your defense? Seriously? BroodkingEXE if you believe me scum and starting a scumwagon, I would like to know the reasons how you came to that assumption.
Well, the way I figure it, if I try to defend myself too much I'll just draw more attention to myself. There really isn't any evidence on the board so I think that just not voicing my opinion until there's more evidence would be better.
I'd just like to point out though that if I am hung, you will see that I am not mafia and you will probably want to go after those gunning for me.....
Your justification for wanting to hang me is lacking evidence just as my claim.
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Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5.
On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia.
If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING.
Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts.
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On May 11 2012 04:50 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:46 ShiaoPi wrote:On May 11 2012 04:43 Anacletus wrote: Well, shit, I guess opting to lynch someone because several others were voting for them was silly.
I'm not mafia TT Is that your defense? Seriously? BroodkingEXE if you believe me scum and starting a scumwagon, I would like to know the reasons how you came to that assumption. Well, the way I figure it, if I try to defend myself too much I'll just draw more attention to myself. There really isn't any evidence on the board so I think that just not voicing my opinion until there's more evidence would be better. I'd just like to point out though that if I am hung, you will see that I am not mafia and you will probably want to go after those gunning for me..... Your justification for wanting to hang me is lacking evidence just as my claim.
Still, saying "Don't lynch me because I'm town" isn't that solid of a defense. We want to know why you voted for Tofu with no reason, then when you DID post a reason, it wasn't solid.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
The thing is you already got a lot of attention, probably the most right now. I presented you the reasons why I am suspicious of your behaviour, what about trying to explain your thought-process? And for what kind of "evidence" are you waiting? I do not really understand the logic behind waiting for something to happen before defending yourself. The only thing which will give us any kind of evidence is a lynch, since that is still a bit away, I don't get your logic here.
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Anacletus, don't think that defending yourself is scummy; it is just good play and everyone should do it. If you know you are town, then defend yourself and prove it. If you are actually town, and go down without a fight, then you have done nothing for us except die.
Also, what does scumwagon mean? I am unfamiliar with the term and don't know what it means.
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I'm at work so can't respond fully, but Tofu's response is reasonable and in line with what I expect from him as Town. So I am jumping on this new wagon, because reasons. ##Unvote
##Vote Anacletus
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On May 11 2012 05:03 Crossfire99 wrote: Anacletus, don't think that defending yourself is scummy; it is just good play and everyone should do it. If you know you are town, then defend yourself and prove it. If you are actually town, and go down without a fight, then you have done nothing for us except die.
Also, what does scumwagon mean? I am unfamiliar with the term and don't know what it means.
I'll disregard this for numerous reasons not worth explaining.
On May 11 2012 04:56 ShiaoPi wrote: The thing is you already got a lot of attention, probably the most right now. I presented you the reasons why I am suspicious of your behaviour, what about trying to explain your thought-process? And for what kind of "evidence" are you waiting? I do not really understand the logic behind waiting for something to happen before defending yourself. The only thing which will give us any kind of evidence is a lynch, since that is still a bit away, I don't get your logic here.
My logic wasn't to kill Tofu as I said, I was just trying to get a head count on who was voting and who wasn't. I seriously doubt anyone who was voting for him originally is mafia. So I was just keeping track for myself of various things. I also seriously doubt that I'll get hung day 1 which is why I'm not really making a big deal out of it. But on the off chance that I do get hung, you'll see that I'm town and you'll have to make some decisions on whether the mafia bandwagoned me, or if the mafia tried to look innocent by not voting.
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On May 11 2012 04:46 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:43 Anacletus wrote: Well, shit, I guess opting to lynch someone because several others were voting for them was silly.
I'm not mafia TT Is that your defense? Seriously? BroodkingEXE if you believe me scum and starting a scumwagon, I would like to know the reasons how you came to that assumption.
Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing.
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:D dahdum, why are you searching for a bandwagon and state your reasons as "because." Can you give a little more insight plz? I do like how you say + Show Spoiler +"Actually, throwing around votes is an excellent way of getting people to speak up. You're defending him right now, he'll respond, and we can interpret later if/when he flips what that says about you. " , but you should also give a reason so they can give a proper response for vote switching. I'm not playing hatemafia, i would like to understand more.
Anacletus, your first post is ##Vote, thats a nice way to say hello! bwahahahah jk.+ Show Spoiler + I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no? This post really didn't help your cause, if you dont have much to add, then why post?
Unforgiven_ve, okayokay.
ShiaoPi, well shit, if you don't defend yourself, then the shitstorm builds up on you and you get lynched.
posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8)
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On May 11 2012 05:56 Jailbreaker wrote: if you dont have much to add, then why post?
If you haven't read my posts posts then why post about my actions?
Reading the full thread and knowing what is going on is pretty powerful in mafia man, as I've addressed this already.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: ---snipped---
Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing.
I do get what you mean by "misleading due to size", there are indeed many uncertainties inside, which you could consider as "null reads". Given the fact that we have day 1 and the low amount of posts we have from some people, not being able to give out a 100% read strikes me as being absolutely normal. Reiteration is also featured because I tried to be transparent in my thoughtprocess, you may say that these things devalue the usefullness of the post, but I believe they were needed.
Do I have to repeat it again? My suspicions on hyaach are not dropped. Reread it again, I clearly state that he is still on my watchlist and also point out his lack of evidence/reason for the vote. Here it is:+ Show Spoiler + His later posts are better than his first as they are actually related to the current discussion. His vote on Anacletus seems reasonable as well given my argumentation above. Although it seems obvious why he is pressuring Anacletus a little bit of explanation of your reasoning would in my eyes go a long way to gain more credibility as a townie. His posts still lack analysis, length and depth, which makes him still kind of fishy.
Now in rereading it myself I probably could have worded it a bit better. -His posts are now related to the discussion, which is sth. beneficial to us. -I did not say I vote with him, as in "he has convinced me", I state that I believe his vote to be understandable, since I am suspecting Anacletus myself for the reasons I posted. The next sentence is poorly phrased, I admit it. I should not have said that he could "gain more credibility as a townie" but instead said that it could move him away from the scumcamp, since he still appears fishy to me due to lacking analysis, length, depth. I did not want to make him into a "townie".
My reasons to vote on Anacletus, could be worded in the way you did, but they can also be put as I did: mismatch in behaviour, posting a vote without reasons and contradiction of himself. Anacletus' last post is finally one which makes sense, after the ones before. Finally some explanation going on, I still believe that something is fishy about Anacletus and I am not the only one, you do so as well + Show Spoiler +This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. .
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sorry im a student so i have school, currently i think this is a weak bandwagon forming on Anacletus. While his defense is weak:
On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit.
Yet the first person to begin the voting on Anacletus was Hyaach, his reasoning seemed just as weak:
On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm
The start of this "bandwagon" is begining to form off of this, though Anacletus did have a poor response which made him more suspicious the voting on him lacks solid reasoning.
On May 11 2012 03:56 FirmTofu wrote:What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets. There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly. Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing. See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble. Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead. Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!"When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia. ##vote:Anacletus I bolded the part im talking about (didnt cut out any as to take something out of context^). Another thing now is that Tofu anounces the role of being a townie, and the reason (supposidly) why Anacletus targeted him was because he knew he was town (because he was mafia)? Now im questioning then why did he target you (tofu) only because you were town. Why initiate like that on a post that seemed insignifigant. I'm building suspicion on the reasoning for starting this bandwagon on Anacletus. Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Lastly:
On May 11 2012 04:52 BioSC wrote:Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING. Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too.
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On May 11 2012 05:56 Jailbreaker wrote: :D dahdum, why are you searching for a bandwagon and state your reasons as "because." Can you give a little more insight plz?
Actually I believe I said because reasons.
If we never get any wagons going, we never pressure mafia into having to take a vote/stance. I'm at work so I can't write long explanations, but since I 100% want somebody to die today, I'm fine voting for whomever the current scummiest is. No-lynch is not an option.
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It's not the end of the day yet so lets not start bandwagoning yet. If you want to kill someone, post something constructive on why we should be making this band wagon so early^
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Sorry about the lack of posts so far. We just fired the GM at our store so I'm currently doing 2 open-close(10am-1am) shifts. Can't really give analysis like I'd like to until I get home but here are some initial thoughts.
Anacletus is definitely my number 1 scum read ATM but it's very early still and reading old TL newbie games our towns have a nasty habbit of lynching bad townies who really don't give away any info first day.
And obviously first day mafia lynch would be astronomical for us, remember that the game is balanced around a night 1 mislynch. We can still get great info from a mislynch but we have to be smart about it and pressure people into making better posts. As it stands I've seen a lot of good initial concerns being brought up followed by other people agreeing or taking a side without contributing that much to the discussion. As a town, we shouldn't want that because what if both reads are wrong? We have then wasted nearly all of day 1 focusing on two people and all we'll have confirmed dead townie and a split on who defended each person. I'm not saying I think both Tofu and Ana are confirmed town, but we need to be diligent about forcing everyone to contribute. As far as I know any of you could be scum and I hope you guys share a similar opinion until we can get some content out of people to get some good reads going.
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Also, how long do we have until the end of the day. I'd really like to get some analysis in but being on my phone makes it kind of hard. I'll start throwing some responses to individual posts but I can't really use filters to make a case til I'm home.
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Mufaa: we have until May 11 8:00pm Eastern time to vote. (im asuming you know everything time wise with what i said cause your in the U.S)
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12:00 hours to go.
Seeing as voting is obligatory and i dont know if i can login to post again, im gonna vote for myself just in case. But i will try to check before time ends.
But first my 2 cents, when i see someone posting a LONG "analysis" on day 1 basing his opinions in a couple post, the first thing that comes to my mind is "he's trying too hard", maybe too appear as town leader and stuff, im not necessarily pointing fingers, ShiaoPi post is kinda helpful so far. But im gonna keep an eye on you and a couple more "in-depth analysts"
I loled at Anacletus "I'm not mafia TT", lol, thats so fishy, reverse psychology maybe? You still are my top 1 tho, but i dont like the random bandwagon, i feel we are being guided to you.
Mufaa finally posted, im gonna try to check for his opinion, i think thats all of us?
Seeing as i have no more information about any of you besides the couple posts...Day 2 is gonna be another historie tho
##Vote Unforgiven_ve
i repeat, i will try to change my vote before the time ends, and seeing abstaining is not allowed.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Current Day 1 Vote Count
Anacletus(4): Hyaach, Firmstofu, ShiaoPi, Dahdum
FirmTofu(1): BroodKingEXE, dahdum, Anacletus
Unforgiven_ve(1): Unforgiven_ve
Voting ends in 24 hours, at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
Keep in mind that this is plurality lynch. Whomever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched.
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You give me way too much credit, Unforgiven_ve. I was only bandwagoning to see who wasn't voting and who was. My plan so far is more of a cluster-fuck spider-web of ideas written in a language that I don't know.
##Unvite
##Vote Unforgiven_ve
I don't actually want to vote for you, I just don't want to leave my votes on someone with other votes so he can get swing voted. I had no intention of actually hanging someone today.
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----------redacted----------
On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia.[/QUOTE]
If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING.
Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts.
[/QUOTE] I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I would probably be more suspicious of you if you weren't of me. I wanted to address this because I felt it trivial to discuss when there was more obvious things to consider and talk about.
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On May 11 2012 08:04 Radfield wrote:
Voting ends in 24 hours, at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) .
oh, my bad, i thought we just had 12 hours left.
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You give me way too much credit, Unforgiven_ve. I was only bandwagoning to see who wasn't voting and who was. My plan so far is more of a cluster-fuck spider-web of ideas written in a language that I don't know.
Please, explain to me
So, lets wait a little more
##Unvote
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yeah Unforgiving i think i have to put my vote on you, ill wait a little longer before i do so, but just puting your vote on Unforgiven_ve does not seem to have any justification, you're just leaving your vote on someone with no backing/reasoning why, it seems you are trying to draw attention away from explaining yourself. You still seem the guiltiest out of everyone, maybe you should start voicing your opinon on how you are not scummy, rather than place a vote holder and do nothing productive... you're most suspicious to me. I dont know if i will be able to get on before 7 tomorrow so im voting you atm
[b\]##Vote Anacletus[/b]
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On May 11 2012 08:28 Darkfirex5 wrote: yeah Unforgiving i think i have to put my vote on you, ill wait a little longer before i do so, but just puting your vote on Unforgiven_ve does not seem to have any justification, you're just leaving your vote on someone with no backing/reasoning why, it seems you are trying to draw attention away from explaining yourself. You still seem the guiltiest out of everyone, maybe you should start voicing your opinon on how you are not scummy, rather than place a vote holder and do nothing productive... you're most suspicious to me. I dont know if i will be able to get on before 7 tomorrow so im voting you atm
[b\]##Vote Anacletus [/b]
You're required to vote - so I am putting my vote on someone who has no other votes - I'm just leaving it as a placeholder in case I forget later. How is that suspicious at all man....what the hell are you on about.... >_>
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On May 11 2012 06:32 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: ---snipped---
Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. I do get what you mean by "misleading due to size", there are indeed many uncertainties inside, which you could consider as "null reads". Given the fact that we have day 1 and the low amount of posts we have from some people, not being able to give out a 100% read strikes me as being absolutely normal. Reiteration is also featured because I tried to be transparent in my thoughtprocess, you may say that these things devalue the usefullness of the post, but I believe they were needed. Do I have to repeat it again? My suspicions on hyaach are not dropped. Reread it again, I clearly state that he is still on my watchlist and also point out his lack of evidence/reason for the vote. Here it is: + Show Spoiler + His later posts are better than his first as they are actually related to the current discussion. His vote on Anacletus seems reasonable as well given my argumentation above. Although it seems obvious why he is pressuring Anacletus a little bit of explanation of your reasoning would in my eyes go a long way to gain more credibility as a townie. His posts still lack analysis, length and depth, which makes him still kind of fishy.
Now in rereading it myself I probably could have worded it a bit better. -His posts are now related to the discussion, which is sth. beneficial to us. -I did not say I vote with him, as in "he has convinced me", I state that I believe his vote to be understandable, since I am suspecting Anacletus myself for the reasons I posted. The next sentence is poorly phrased, I admit it. I should not have said that he could "gain more credibility as a townie" but instead said that it could move him away from the scumcamp, since he still appears fishy to me due to lacking analysis, length, depth. I did not want to make him into a "townie". My reasons to vote on Anacletus, could be worded in the way you did, but they can also be put as I did: mismatch in behaviour, posting a vote without reasons and contradiction of himself. Anacletus' last post is finally one which makes sense, after the ones before. Finally some explanation going on, I still believe that something is fishy about Anacletus and I am not the only one, you do so as well + Show Spoiler +This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. . Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet.
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@Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information.
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On May 11 2012 09:16 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information.
I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume?
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On May 11 2012 08:04 Anacletus wrote: You give me way too much credit, Unforgiven_ve. I was only bandwagoning to see who wasn't voting and who was. My plan so far is more of a cluster-fuck spider-web of ideas written in a language that I don't know.
##Unvite
##Vote Unforgiven_ve
I don't actually want to vote for you, I just don't want to leave my votes on someone with other votes so he can get swing voted. I had no intention of actually hanging someone today.
You voted for unforgiven_ve but you said you don't want to vote on someone with other votes so he can get swing voted. unforgiven_ve already voted himself before you.
You could have left the vote on FirmTofu since everyone has jumped on your wagon.
Not wanting to hang anyone but placing on your vote on someone (FirmTofu)already with 2 votes on him.
[quote]My logic wasn't to kill Tofu as I said, I was just trying to get a head count on who was voting and who wasn't. I seriously doubt anyone who was voting for him originally is mafia. So I was just keeping track for myself of various things. I also seriously doubt that I'll get hung day 1 which is why I'm not really making a big deal out of it. But on the off chance that I do get hung, you'll see that I'm town and you'll have to make some decisions on whether the mafia bandwagoned me, or if the mafia tried to look innocent by not voting.[quote]
Headcounts can be done though reading and rereading of the thread.
Why are you trying to set alignment for people who voted for FirmTofu? everyone is a scum until proven otherwise. Its the age old, I have no valuable information to share but I'll flip town when the time comes.
Your argument all had been about, I will be town when i flip but i can not provide anything of note.
BKE
If you actually read my post.
[quote] i actually had all the reasons to vote him.
Firstly, i was against the vote on FirmTofu because suspicion over his 'imho' casual remark was pretty funny. To me, there was actually nothing suspicious over that post but it indeed generated some discussion. BKE was asking for convincing left and right. BioSC was sitting neutral the whole time. Dahdum was pretty aggressive from the get go.
So while we waited for his response, i tried to generated some other chatter by pointing out lurkers/inactives who have not yet posted.
The first response by austinmcc seemed not too shabby to me not because he agreed with my method, but he actually showed that he bothered to catch up with the thread and give his input. The second response was a direct vote without any reasoning. (its like my first post; ready to jump the gun)
that was enough reason for me to vote and i believe people caught up with the train and are now starting to pressure Anacletus[quote]
I was actually fishing for some response other that the train going on FirmTofu. When I ask you to post, you don't just vote without any form of reading. That will not help your case.
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Yeah, i messed up my quote tags.
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Yeah reading that was REALLY difficult, preview is your best friend
Well, I'm just trying to poke and prod here and there to get an idea for myself about who is doing what. I don't really like the idea of letting others make decisions for me like deciding this player is neutral, or this other player is aggressive.
You're right in that it probably was a bit silly and overzealous, but hopefully it's helped some, I'm formulating some hypothesis of my own.
Remember the #1 rule: Vote for a bro? noooo
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On May 11 2012 08:32 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 08:28 Darkfirex5 wrote: yeah Unforgiving i think i have to put my vote on you, ill wait a little longer before i do so, but just puting your vote on Unforgiven_ve does not seem to have any justification, you're just leaving your vote on someone with no backing/reasoning why, it seems you are trying to draw attention away from explaining yourself. You still seem the guiltiest out of everyone, maybe you should start voicing your opinon on how you are not scummy, rather than place a vote holder and do nothing productive... you're most suspicious to me. I dont know if i will be able to get on before 7 tomorrow so im voting you atm
[b\]##Vote Anacletus You're required to vote - so I am putting my vote on someone who has no other votes - I'm just leaving it as a placeholder in case I forget later. How is that suspicious at all man....what the hell are you on about.... >_> [/b]
Makes sense, but FYI you didn't actually vote for unforgiven. Instead of unvote you did unvite so I don't think your change will be counted. I figured after getting called out for editing you'd pay closer attention to your posts. For claiming to be pro-town these things(edit & failed voting) do nothing but benefit the mafia through ambiguity if you really are town. So why should we believe you're town if you can't take the extra 30 secs to proof your posts? Why shouldn't we assume the failed vote was you attempting to hide your focus on Tofu while ensuring that when you got called out you had a fallback ready by just saying oops?
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On May 11 2012 10:16 Mufaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 08:32 Anacletus wrote:On May 11 2012 08:28 Darkfirex5 wrote: yeah Unforgiving i think i have to put my vote on you, ill wait a little longer before i do so, but just puting your vote on Unforgiven_ve does not seem to have any justification, you're just leaving your vote on someone with no backing/reasoning why, it seems you are trying to draw attention away from explaining yourself. You still seem the guiltiest out of everyone, maybe you should start voicing your opinon on how you are not scummy, rather than place a vote holder and do nothing productive... you're most suspicious to me. I dont know if i will be able to get on before 7 tomorrow so im voting you atm
[b\]##Vote Anacletus You're required to vote - so I am putting my vote on someone who has no other votes - I'm just leaving it as a placeholder in case I forget later. How is that suspicious at all man....what the hell are you on about.... >_> Makes sense, but FYI you didn't actually vote for unforgiven. Instead of unvote you did unvite so I don't think your change will be counted. I figured after getting called out for editing you'd pay closer attention to your posts. For claiming to be pro-town these things(edit & failed voting) do nothing but benefit the mafia through ambiguity if you really are town. So why should we believe you're town if you can't take the extra 30 secs to proof your posts? Why shouldn't we assume the failed vote was you attempting to hide your focus on Tofu while ensuring that when you got called out you had a fallback ready by just saying oops? [/b]
I never said I was protown, I just said that I've played mafia before.
##Unvote
My personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself.
##Vote Anacletus
Well, this could turn out interesting
On May 11 2012 08:08 BioSC wrote: Fair enough. I would probably be more suspicious of you if you weren't of me. I wanted to address this because I felt it trivial to discuss when there was more obvious things to consider and talk about.
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On May 11 2012 10:16 Mufaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 08:32 Anacletus wrote:On May 11 2012 08:28 Darkfirex5 wrote: yeah Unforgiving i think i have to put my vote on you, ill wait a little longer before i do so, but just puting your vote on Unforgiven_ve does not seem to have any justification, you're just leaving your vote on someone with no backing/reasoning why, it seems you are trying to draw attention away from explaining yourself. You still seem the guiltiest out of everyone, maybe you should start voicing your opinon on how you are not scummy, rather than place a vote holder and do nothing productive... you're most suspicious to me. I dont know if i will be able to get on before 7 tomorrow so im voting you atm
[b\]##Vote Anacletus You're required to vote - so I am putting my vote on someone who has no other votes - I'm just leaving it as a placeholder in case I forget later. How is that suspicious at all man....what the hell are you on about.... >_> Makes sense, but FYI you didn't actually vote for unforgiven. Instead of unvote you did unvite so I don't think your change will be counted. I figured after getting called out for editing you'd pay closer attention to your posts. For claiming to be pro-town these things(edit & failed voting) do nothing but benefit the mafia through ambiguity if you really are town. So why should we believe you're town if you can't take the extra 30 secs to proof your posts? Why shouldn't we assume the failed vote was you attempting to hide your focus on Tofu while ensuring that when you got called out you had a fallback ready by just saying oops? [/b]
Actually I think it makes very poor sense and he is even more suspicious for it. He's essentially saying "I'd like to throw my vote away, I might not bother to vote again later so I definitely don't want it to matter". That's a scum move.
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Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: )
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On May 11 2012 10:21 Anacletus wrote:My personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself. Well, this could turn out interesting Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 08:08 BioSC wrote: Fair enough. I would probably be more suspicious of you if you weren't of me. I wanted to address this because I felt it trivial to discuss when there was more obvious things to consider and talk about.
So, let me get this straight. You believe I am mafia, because I've been passive? That simply isn't true. I questioned Tofu on his comment, and he responded. You, on the other hand, have been all over the place with your postings, and when people call you out on it, you give reasons like "If you all lynch me, I'll flip town" and "I don't want to have a lynch, so I'm passing my vote".
I have been pro town since minute one. When people were confused or pressing me for information, I responded. I know my innocence, and have defended it. In response to you quoting one of my posts saying "interesting"... It's day 1. The only people that should be trusting of anyone else are people in the mafia. Hell, it's in the game description: "Uninformed majority vs. Informed minority" I don't trust anyone day 1, and neither should anyone else in town.
We've been trying to find a good scum read for a day now, and as of now, YOU are the biggest read. This is the biggest reason why I'm having a hard time believing you are Town.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 09:22 Anacletus wrote: I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume?
If you are town, and have no information, why the hell would you post? Browsing through your filters, you've done nothing to help Town find a scum. Your vote on Tofu early had no reasoning behind it, and ever since you've been called out on it, you have turtled and provided no reason for me to believe you are helping town. Until you can show that you are helping town by finding scum, my vote is for you.
##Vote Anacletus
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On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: )
Which post was this? The one about me possibly being scum (I'll answer these all day) or the one about Unforgiven?
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Here are my reads and yes I know this is partially a rehash of events.
--Scummy List - -- Most To Least
Analectus - No point summarizing so far, chief suspect. Actually votes for himself after attempting to throw his vote away without reason, and says "I never said I was protown". Not acting like town.
Hyaach - Bandwagons, no pressure at all. Urges caution. Scummy.
BioSC - Highly defensive, focuses on Analectus.
Darkfirex5 - Keeps cautioning against bandwagons and voting too early, sounds like scum trying to defend Analectus. Last post says he's voting against Unforgiven but then botches the vote for Analectus?
Crossfire99 - Obsessed with Analectus, doesn't discuss anyone else.
BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy.
Jailbreaker - Worried about people pressuring too much, defensive, not contributing reads, promises something soon.
Mufaa - Very few posts but cites RL reason and reiterates basic strategy. Jumps on Analectus for technicality, contributes no reads on anyone else.
Austinmcc - Rightly pressures Analectus for his "i don't have much to add" vote, continues to lay one the pressure but never calls him out as scum or gives any real reads/analysis.
FirmTofu - Defends the bandwagon well, placing reasonable pressure on Analectus. Compared to last game he seems more thoughtful however, so I'm suspicious of that.
ShiaoPi - Jumps on Hyaach, lots of analysis. The huge post is somewhat indicative of a scum play, but I concur with his picks (Analectus/Hyaach) so far.
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Missed one;
Unforgiven_ve - He's not in the filter list yet. He votes for himself even though he has a top list already and some reads. Scummy, but maybe just catching up. I'd put him somewhere in the middle.
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On May 11 2012 11:45 dahdum wrote: Here are my reads and yes I know this is partially a rehash of events.
--Scummy List - -- Most To Least
Analectus - No point summarizing so far, chief suspect. Actually votes for himself after attempting to throw his vote away without reason, and says "I never said I was protown". Not acting like town.
Hyaach - Bandwagons, no pressure at all. Urges caution. Scummy.
BioSC - Highly defensive, focuses on Analectus.
Darkfirex5 - Keeps cautioning against bandwagons and voting too early, sounds like scum trying to defend Analectus. Last post says he's voting against Unforgiven but then botches the vote for Analectus?
Crossfire99 - Obsessed with Analectus, doesn't discuss anyone else.
BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy.
Jailbreaker - Worried about people pressuring too much, defensive, not contributing reads, promises something soon.
Mufaa - Very few posts but cites RL reason and reiterates basic strategy. Jumps on Analectus for technicality, contributes no reads on anyone else.
Austinmcc - Rightly pressures Analectus for his "i don't have much to add" vote, continues to lay one the pressure but never calls him out as scum or gives any real reads/analysis.
FirmTofu - Defends the bandwagon well, placing reasonable pressure on Analectus. Compared to last game he seems more thoughtful however, so I'm suspicious of that.
ShiaoPi - Jumps on Hyaach, lots of analysis. The huge post is somewhat indicative of a scum play, but I concur with his picks (Analectus/Hyaach) so far.
Entirely subjective and of course you'd rush to create it so you could not be counted in it.
Personally, I think that this is a bit suspicious.
I'd just like for everyone to take a quick gander at his reasoning behind low suspicions of "agrees with me on lynches" and just how odd that is. When we start weening down the list - assuming the cop searches and finds me innocent - keep that in mind as you check everyone bandwagoning me.
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at dahdum, i never said i was voting against Unforgiven, where did you see that? A quote pls, cause i dont see a post from me attacking unforgiven... dont want to say your lying but, where is your misinterpretation?
This list is also just fluff, great you show us your views on who you think it is scummy, but after reading it, no further attention goes towards it.
--> probably the most questionable thing is that you put Hyaach right under Analectus. Hyaach started the bandwagon on Analectus, so now your saying if you think that the most likely mafia player Anacletus, and the person who goes after him first is Hyaach. Additionally now you seem to have summarized basically what is happening in this game, maybe some analysis would be more helpful. Additionally quoting, how you are coming to these fluff conclusions of people would be great, so then we could relate to these points that you are making. In the end i just reread what has been happening and your thoughts on this thread FOS: dahdum
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Well, just realized that i had typo against unforgiving, i was agreeing with his post above mine and put his name as the person i was going to vote for instead of Anacletus.
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On May 11 2012 12:02 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 11:45 dahdum wrote: Here are my reads and yes I know this is partially a rehash of events. --Scummy List - -- ----CUT --- Entirely subjective and of course you'd rush to create it so you could not be counted in it. Personally, I think that this is a bit suspicious. I'd just like for everyone to take a quick gander at his reasoning behind low suspicions of "agrees with me on lynches" and just how odd that is. When we start weening down the list - assuming the cop searches and finds me innocent - keep that in mind as you check everyone bandwagoning me.
That would be "lowest" suspicion, and of course I did not include myself in my own scummy list.
Here you go though: Dahdum - Promiscuously voting and joining wagons, hasn't started his own yet. No one has really pressured him, posted first. Accuses many.
Here's my rebuttal to that totally subjective read: It's Day 1, we need debate, opinions, and voting on the record. I'm waiting for BioSC to post one more scummy thing before I'm campaigning for him, as of now I'm happy with any of the top 3 in my list.
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On May 11 2012 12:05 Darkfirex5 wrote: at dahdum, i never said i was voting against Unforgiven, where did you see that? A quote pls, cause i dont see a post from me attacking unforgiven... dont want to say your lying but, where is your misinterpretation?
This list is also just fluff, great you show us your views on who you think it is scummy, but after reading it, no further attention goes towards it.
--> probably the most questionable thing is that you put Hyaach right under Analectus. Hyaach started the bandwagon on Analectus, so now your saying if you think that the most likely mafia player Anacletus, and the person who goes after him first is Hyaach. Additionally now you seem to have summarized basically what is happening in this game, maybe some analysis would be more helpful. Additionally quoting, how you are coming to these fluff conclusions of people would be great, so then we could relate to these points that you are making. In the end i just reread what has been happening and your thoughts on this thread FOS: dahdum
Yes, I'm trying to show my thoughts and spark further discussion. Not claiming Hyaach/Analectus are both mafia, I agree it seems unlikely, but I'm fine with either getting lynched. Day 2 will obviously change things.
Why don't you tell us what your list looks like and why Darkfire, or would you prefer to keep all your reads to yourself?
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dahdum: I'm interested in knowing why you believe I'm being scummy... Your posts don't really give any reasons to why you think I'm playing like scum, just that I'm defensive about people calling me out. (Which I guess by responding to this list is furthering that point)
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 05:03 Crossfire99 wrote: Anacletus, don't think that defending yourself is scummy; it is just good play and everyone should do it. If you know you are town, then defend yourself and prove it. If you are actually town, and go down without a fight, then you have done nothing for us except die.
I would rather defend myself than let people try to read scumminess (is that a word?) that isn't there.
You also call me out on being tunneled on Anacletus. Perhaps I am, but as I said, his play is reading as the scummiest so far, which we both agree on.
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@biosc Sure, this is why I think you're scummy:
Sounds like a solid strategy. Basic, but solid. Getting rid of lurkers/low content players seems like a win/win. If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
You're agreeing with me here, but then the "they would be as bad as scum" phrase really seems out of place. My first suspicion based on that.
While I agree that the back half of his post is worthy of discussion, I would hope that simply saying that him hoping you aren't mafia is worthy of a lynch. Maybe it's just me, but that simply sounds as if he remembers you from a previous game, and perhaps you did well as mafia then. I feel like the mafia/town alignment of a previous game shouldn't be a factor in deciding whom to lynch in THIS game.
Read what I posted again. I threw my suspicions towards him as well. Not sure what about my post was defending him.
By throwing your suspicions I assume you mean the phrase "back half of his post is worthy of discussion". Super passive and non-committal.
Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. Sounds like something one scum says to another.
I'd also like to hear more on who you think is suspicious beyond Analectus?
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My best pressure is my vote. i believe i started the wagon, so why am i listed as a bandwagon?. bandwagon if anything are dahdum who has join the vote on whomever is being pressured at the very moment. as for me voting without reason i believe any townie who saw the first post after my list would be decent enough to figure out why
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Alright, here goes.
First, though, the guy's name is Anacletus. I'm going to assume the misspelling was simply a Freudian slip of the tounge >.<
I'm suspicious of Darkfirex5. He seems to be trying to shift focus away from Anacletus, and this is why I think that. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: ) He's already done this twice in this day, pointing out small flaws and meaningless details in my posts to try and get an argument started against me. My strategy to deal with it was to stamp it out. Just because I'm putting pressure on someone, though, doesn't mean I'm not looking for more reads. There are at least 4 mafia in this game, and town needs to find them all to win.
By me saying I'm watching his posts, I mean exactly that. I'm trying to stay pretty crystal in my intentions in this game.
Another I'm iffy about is Mufaa. He hasn't posted much, and has given a reason about jobs and shifts taking up a lot of time. His other posts are a question on when the end time for voting is (useless fluff, a mod post covered that), and a weak pressure on Ana. What I can't tell is if that is just shoddy town play, or mafia bussing. Either way, I need more posts from him to either change or strengthen my read on him.
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On May 11 2012 11:45 dahdum wrote: Here are my reads and yes I know this is partially a rehash of events.
--Scummy List - -- Most To Least
Analectus - No point summarizing so far, chief suspect. Actually votes for himself after attempting to throw his vote away without reason, and says "I never said I was protown". Not acting like town.
Hyaach - Bandwagons, no pressure at all. Urges caution. Scummy.
BioSC - Highly defensive, focuses on Analectus.
Darkfirex5 - Keeps cautioning against bandwagons and voting too early, sounds like scum trying to defend Analectus. Last post says he's voting against Unforgiven but then botches the vote for Analectus?
Crossfire99 - Obsessed with Analectus, doesn't discuss anyone else.
BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy.
Jailbreaker - Worried about people pressuring too much, defensive, not contributing reads, promises something soon.
Mufaa - Very few posts but cites RL reason and reiterates basic strategy. Jumps on Analectus for technicality, contributes no reads on anyone else.
Austinmcc - Rightly pressures Analectus for his "i don't have much to add" vote, continues to lay one the pressure but never calls him out as scum or gives any real reads/analysis.
FirmTofu - Defends the bandwagon well, placing reasonable pressure on Analectus. Compared to last game he seems more thoughtful however, so I'm suspicious of that.
ShiaoPi - Jumps on Hyaach, lots of analysis. The huge post is somewhat indicative of a scum play, but I concur with his picks (Analectus/Hyaach) so far.
I wouldn't say I was only reiterating basic strategy. Although yes, I was pointing out something "basic" the town isn't following that basic principle and it is clearly hurting us. Once I get home I'll give you the analytic reads you want, but its pointless to make a case after half a day because there is so much more to be said by everyone. What might be a great case now can change in a heartbeat if someone makes a slip that lets us piece shit together better later. Like you said in you
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On May 11 2012 11:45 dahdum wrote: Here are my reads and yes I know this is partially a rehash of events.
--Scummy List - -- Most To Least
Analectus - No point summarizing so far, chief suspect. Actually votes for himself after attempting to throw his vote away without reason, and says "I never said I was protown". Not acting like town.
Hyaach - Bandwagons, no pressure at all. Urges caution. Scummy.
BioSC - Highly defensive, focuses on Analectus.
Darkfirex5 - Keeps cautioning against bandwagons and voting too early, sounds like scum trying to defend Analectus. Last post says he's voting against Unforgiven but then botches the vote for Analectus?
Crossfire99 - Obsessed with Analectus, doesn't discuss anyone else.
BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy.
Jailbreaker - Worried about people pressuring too much, defensive, not contributing reads, promises something soon.
Mufaa - Very few posts but cites RL reason and reiterates basic strategy. Jumps on Analectus for technicality, contributes no reads on anyone else.
Austinmcc - Rightly pressures Analectus for his "i don't have much to add" vote, continues to lay one the pressure but never calls him out as scum or gives any real reads/analysis.
FirmTofu - Defends the bandwagon well, placing reasonable pressure on Analectus. Compared to last game he seems more thoughtful however, so I'm suspicious of that.
ShiaoPi - Jumps on Hyaach, lots of analysis. The huge post is somewhat indicative of a scum play, but I concur with his picks (Analectus/Hyaach) so far.
I wouldn't say I was only reiterating basic strategy. Although yes, I was pointing out something "basic" the town isn't following that basic principle and it is clearly hurting us. I'll give you the analytic reads you want tomorrow, but its pointless to make a case after half a day because there is so much more to be said by everyone. What might be a great case now can change in a heartbeat if someone makes a slip that lets us piece shit together better later. Like you said in your own defense of your list you need debates and opinions. Giving reads focuses on tunneling someone and provides an easy outlet for mafia to hide behind a consensus whereas if you are just questioning individual actions and statements, their answers provide material to analyze their style and make a case closer to the deadline.
On May 11 2012 10:22 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 10:16 Mufaa wrote:On May 11 2012 08:32 Anacletus wrote:On May 11 2012 08:28 Darkfirex5 wrote: yeah Unforgiving i think i have to put my vote on you, ill wait a little longer before i do so, but just puting your vote on Unforgiven_ve does not seem to have any justification, you're just leaving your vote on someone with no backing/reasoning why, it seems you are trying to draw attention away from explaining yourself. You still seem the guiltiest out of everyone, maybe you should start voicing your opinon on how you are not scummy, rather than place a vote holder and do nothing productive... you're most suspicious to me. I dont know if i will be able to get on before 7 tomorrow so im voting you atm
[b\]##Vote Anacletus You're required to vote - so I am putting my vote on someone who has no other votes - I'm just leaving it as a placeholder in case I forget later. How is that suspicious at all man....what the hell are you on about.... >_> Makes sense, but FYI you didn't actually vote for unforgiven. Instead of unvote you did unvite so I don't think your change will be counted. I figured after getting called out for editing you'd pay closer attention to your posts. For claiming to be pro-town these things(edit & failed voting) do nothing but benefit the mafia through ambiguity if you really are town. So why should we believe you're town if you can't take the extra 30 secs to proof your posts? Why shouldn't we assume the failed vote was you attempting to hide your focus on Tofu while ensuring that when you got called out you had a fallback ready by just saying oops? Actually I think it makes very poor sense and he is even more suspicious for it. He's essentially saying "I'd like to throw my vote away, I might not bother to vote again later so I definitely don't want it to matter". That's a scum move. [/b]
I would like to point out with this that although it is fishy, this is by no means a scum move. A lot of beginner games go like this (based off of reading the mafiascum wiki) where early on everyone random votes just to make sure they are counted in case something happens while some people don't understand why then follow up by random voting themselves halfway through the day. His explanation for the vote is much more important than the vote itself this early.
On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: )
I'm assuming you
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On May 11 2012 13:18 Hyaach wrote: My best pressure is my vote. i believe i started the wagon, so why am i listed as a bandwagon?. bandwagon if anything are dahdum who has join the vote on whomever is being pressured at the very moment. as for me voting without reason i believe any townie who saw the first post after my list would be decent enough to figure out why
My bad, you did start that wagon and I do see the justification for it. He gave us more reasons afterward too.
What are your thoughts on BioSC & Mufaa?
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EBWOP 2: Sorry my computer is being a complete bitch atm and posting randomly. Ill do future posts in notepad and copy them over.
anyway,
Dark: I feel like my first real post explained my thoughts on it, but I'll reiterate. Bandwagoning is bad, I agree, but we (the town) have to be active in forcing the bad posters to improve their posting or else we can't really stop it. If that means we have to mislynch n1 so be it, but we need to set a precedent that it isn't accepted. Makes it much easier for the mafia to hide. I still think Ana will flip town if we lynch him. Yes he's very scummy, but its so scummy its hard to believe that a mafia would play that bad. He might as well come out and say he's mafia and just get modkilled at the current rate. Feels kind of like bad town to me, I'm still on the fence about it though. At this point I'd back a lynch on him, but that's very hesitant. I mostly want to see him step up his game.
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Im at school surfing this with my mobile so i cant really read thru everypost people made before but i believe ive said biisc was trying to remain neutral all these time and not committing ro anything Biisc is biosc and my read on him is before his recent post in the last 10 hours
will give an update when im at home in around 7 hours
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On May 11 2012 13:48 Hyaach wrote: Im at school surfing this with my mobile so i cant really read thru everypost people made before but i believe ive said biisc was trying to remain neutral all these time and not committing ro anything Biisc is biosc and my read on him is before his recent post in the last 10 hours
will give an update when im at home in around 7 hours
Yeah, I'm remaining so neutral that I've casted a vote for someone I believe is scum, and gave reasons for others that I believe is scum.
I think you and I have different definitions of neutral...
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Holy balls guys, calm down and think before you post for a bit.
You are all listing all of the people you deem suspicious AND least suspicious. Why? We only need to find ONE guy today and that guy is supposed to be BAD not GOOD. With all these lists of scummy to non-scummy, we are just giving the mafia advice on how to play better. Instead of showcasing your reads of EVERYONE, just tell us the reads of the people you think are scummy. You are doing mafia's work for them if you tell everyone who you think is the most pro-town. i.e. me.
That being said, I would like to shift our bandwagon because it's becoming a bit superfluous at this point, with a lot of the same points repeated and the same fail defense from Analectus.
Here's a post I found extremely scummy from a different person.
On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: ) Wait, did I just read that? In the same post, two sentences right next to each other seem to contradict one another. That's odd. Let me explain if you didn't catch it.
The first sentence: 1) Acknowledges that Anecletus is scummy 2) Asserts that Anecletus has a good point about BioSC
The second sentence: 1) States that the bandwagon on Anecletus is "weak" 2) Wants someone to read his unsubstantial post from before
Isn't 1) from the second sentence somewhat contradictory to 1) from the second?
So yeah, I have another elaborate theory for you. I'll be your friendly neighborhood theoretic translator so that you can know what's going on in my head.
Sentence 1: "Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts."
Possible Translation if both Anecletus and Darkfirex5 are mafia: Anecletus is a goner at this point... but maybe there's a chance I can save him by lending support for his accusation of BioSC (which btw is complete BS). I'll say that Anecletus is scummy so that no one thinks I'm suspicious.
Sentence 1: "I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: )"
Possible Translation if both Anecletus and Darkfirex5 are mafia: I'll now discredit the wagon on Anecletus in hope of saving him, but I can't outright support him without risking buddying.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Now remember, this is only a possible theory. I'm just putting it out there so we can discuss it. Its only useful if Ancletus flips mafia, otherwise it's best to throw it out the window.
tl;dr: I have a theory that darkfire and anecletus are both mafia. Read for the excruciatingly boring details.
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I've expressed this stance in my post answering dahdum about whom I felt was scummy, but this points it out pretty clear as day.
My post about it: + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 13:19 BioSC wrote:Alright, here goes. First, though, the guy's name is Anacletus. I'm going to assume the misspelling was simply a Freudian slip of the tounge >.< I'm suspicious of Darkfirex5. He seems to be trying to shift focus away from Anacletus, and this is why I think that. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: ) He's already done this twice in this day, pointing out small flaws and meaningless details in my posts to try and get an argument started against me. My strategy to deal with it was to stamp it out. Just because I'm putting pressure on someone, though, doesn't mean I'm not looking for more reads. There are at least 4 mafia in this game, and town needs to find them all to win.
I would like to see some posts out of Darkfirex5 about this. Why did you make the post above?
I also tend to agree with the stuff about making lists. Dahdum, I think your heart is in the right place, but focusing on a "short list" of the most scummy players would allow us to focus on finding, like Tofu said, a single guilty party.
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On May 11 2012 14:37 BioSC wrote:Dahdum, I think your heart is in the right place, but focusing on a "short list" of the most scummy players would allow us to focus on finding, like Tofu said, a single guilty party. My opinion is my own, not a consensus of the group and not a guide for mafia. If you don't feel comfortable commenting more broadly feel free to focus down on 1 or 2 people while ignoring your scumbuddies. Focus happens as we have more information.
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Whatever Anacletus is trying to do it isn't town. His response to me is that he doesn't have any information, then he throws a vote at BioSC. Pretty cut and dry.
##Vote Anacletus
@dahdum I'm not going to post a whole list of people like you, but I'll post my reads tommorow morning. I feel your list is a little skewed though, the people on the bottom have scummy aspects as well (according to you) so it makes it feel like you suspect everyone in town.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Just read through everything you guys posted, there are a few things which really strike me as noticeable.
Hyaach's play remains fishy in my opinion, posts are more useful now, but his instantvote with reasoning following later is still scummy. A connection between him and Anacletus deems unlikely with the vote, but hyaach's play is really confusing.
Jailbreaker actually promised to deliver something:
posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8) but still no post yet. Laziness/slow at best but scummy and suspicious at the worst.
Darkfirex5 campaigns caution and nothing overhasty in regards to the developing votes. Withholds his vote for this reason:
Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Which is contradictory on his own suspicions on Tofu, Bio and dahdum as they lack evidence as well (every case on day1 lacks solid 100% evidence anyway). Keeps up a slight defense of Anacletus, while voting for him (in the wrong format though). Weird behaviour as Anacletus' play has not improved and remains scummy. Keeping an eye on him.
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On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none.
Okay....
On May 11 2012 16:08 BroodKingEXE wrote: Whatever Anacletus is trying to do it isn't town. His response to me is that he doesn't have any information, then he throws a vote at BioSC. Pretty cut and dry.
##Vote Anacletus
Well then, you're just throwing a vote at me. Very cut and dry bandwagon.
Has nobody worried about voicing themself too well, or making themself seem too unsuspicious so you become a mafia target?
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At this time, My read on BioSC since start of game is his being very passive. Taking little jabs at everything possible but not really sticking it in. His throwing a huge net and offering very little in comparison. I do not know if he was asleep when the Anacletus wagon started but when he did replied, he only stated what others before had say. His only vote which is on Anacletus was casted after most of the players has started focusing on Anacletus and Anacletus kept repeating poor defense and a general bad play if he was townie.
He could be a overly ambitious townie or just mafia that's spreading his alibi from the very start. But right now innocent until proven. BTW, regarding darkfirex5, i think you need to quote the two post about him diverting attention away from Anacletus and onto you because I do not see it. His two post, one was before Anacletus wagon started and one is after. Grasping at straws or just did not read clearly?
As for Mufaa, until he post his futher post before this day ends. I have 0 read as his being even more vague than BioSC.
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My thoughts on Anacletus:
His play does not feel like good townie play. I brought that up earlier, we've all discussed it by now, and I think we all seem to come to the same conclusion. While I would support a lynch of Anacletus, I think we have better targets. I'll look through his responses more today, but for now I would prefer to look elsewhere, and see how Anacletus continues to play. Right now, "not good townie play" is my read, but I'm not convinced that his play is scummy and not just bad townie play.
However, we've got a quarter of D1 left, and I want to throw this case out and push it a little, see what comes of it. My top scum read: BroodKingEXE.
BroodKingEXE filter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707&user=233869
Skip 2/3 of the first page. It's pregame. He's active, vocal, chatting a lot with everyone in the pregame. Doesn't really mean anything.
First posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 12:53 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm
Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. ##Vote: Firm Tofu
These aren't entirely incompatible. Lynching lurkers bad, pressuring them good, let people post before we jump to conclusions. That seems townie, fine and dandy, but then he fires off the very first vote of the game on FirmTofu.
Why? Because FirmTofu posted + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post.
Look at the bolded part of Broodking's first post. Now back to me. Now back to the bolded part of FirmTofu's post. Now back to me. Anything? That's the same exact thought process. And yet when FirmTofu vocalizes that, Broodking fires off the first vote of the game. I still don't agree with that vote at all, even if it was just to "pressure" someone, because there's absolutely no grounds for voting someone because they express a thought you just expressed slightly earlier.
From then on out, it's a series of one-liner and response posts, but never really DOING anything. Last night (eastern time), BroodKing had one of the longest filters, and yet the only substantive post was him voting FirmTofu off the bat.
For example: + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 03:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. This line stood out to me. BroodKing threw out of FIRST vote of the game on Tofu, before there was play to analyze and before Tofu responded to anything. Why does he need a response now to vote?
After that, he starts giving responses to other people, specifically ShiaoPi's reads, but doesn't really add anything of substance. scummy
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none. On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. On May 11 2012 09:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet.
Note that at this point, ShiaoPi has just thrown out the first real list of reads we had from anyone. BroodKing posts a couple times concerning the list, but doesn't really add anything. While he gets information out of ShiaoPi, he doesn't really provide any himself. At no point in those posts does he agree with a read or disagree with a read, rather, he simply acknowledges that reads were made and ShiaoPi voted. This is also the first point we begin to move AWAY from the Anacletus discussion (which has run its course at this point), and BroodKing continues to ask for information based on ShiaoPi's vote for Anacletus.
Finally, compare his filter from this game with his filter from Newbie VIII, where he was town. + Show Spoiler + There are some posts in a similar style to his posts here, but a LOT of @x and @y, what do you guys think about z. Lots of longer discussions, paragraphs, lists. SOME of that is because he was the lynch target D1 and so had to be active and defend himself. But his townie posts from VIII feel more robust and they contribute, whereas his posts so far in XIII do not.
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Anacletus's play still feels more bad than scummy. I would like to let him live for now, and see if he starts to really contribute. Right now he has 0 town cred, so if he's mafia he can't actively muck up town discussion. If we back off the pressure, MAYBE he mounts a decent defense and provides some good reads, because...he's got to do that to get any cred back. If not? We lynch him later, or we see if we can get any information N1 from blue roles that push us forward.
Compared to Anacletus though, BroodKingEXE looks actively scummy. So far he hasn't contributed anything of note except the first vote of the game, which made little sense. He's supports getting responses before voting, but then votes without a response from FirmTofu. He wants scumhunting and reasoning, but has provided none. Again, I'm not opposed to an Anacletus lynch, but I would prefer to lynch the player that seems scummiest, which is BroodKing.
##Vote BroodKingEXE ##FOS: Anacletus
Dahdum, I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on this, as you read BroodKing to be scummy as well. I didn't really notice him until I looked through all the filters last night and realized he was my best scumread. Do you agree with my reasoning? Did you have different reasoning?
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Vote Count:
Anacletus(8): Hyaach, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, Dahdum, Darkfirex5, Anacletus, BioSC, BroodkingEXE BroodkingEXE(1): austinmcc Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Crossfire99, Unforgiven_ve Currently, Anacletus is set to be lynched. Please feel free to PM me if my vote count is incorrect, just let me know.
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My god Anacletus, of course i give you some credit, but i dont undertand ANYTHING you post, your contributions makes no sense, they are contradictory and change everytime someone points his finger at you. You need to understand this is a TEAM GAME, you just cant convince people saying "My plan so far is more of a cluster-fuck spider-web of ideas written in a language that I don't know." are you really THAT bad of a player? if you turn mafia im gonna laugh, really.
I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information, I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post everybody already posted and im still waiting, and posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8) and being under the radar in general)
Im gonna wait a couple more hours to cast my vote, i want to see if everyone goes active and chatty and the end of the day
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
@austinmcc: Considering your thoughts on Anacletus: There is always the possibility of bad town play instead of scummy play. But doesn't the defense of Anacletus (or more the lack of) seem weird to you? Also his lack of good contributions? I guess bad townie play is always a possibility, but for now I stand by my vote.
On the accusations on BroodKingEXE: You bring up some good analysis. I guess I overlooked those aspects of his posts because I was more busy defending my posts against him than analyzing. I'll have to reread his filter thoroughly though, before doing anything.
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oh, let me add Crossfire99 to that list (i just saw the vote count) 3 post just attacking anacletus and not saying not a thing more
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Yeah, it's just bad town play. I really hope you guys don't lynch me and let the cop check me or something.
In the beginning I was just being reckless to start up the conversations. I've said it multiple times, but I'll say it again, I have no interest in hanging anyone yet as everything is just inconclusive guesses.
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There is basically 8 hours left in this day. We are hard pressed against time. On the BKE suspicions. I actually felt that it is a valid direction. If you filter his post, he does post often but its all fluff. There is never anything constructive to the town from him. You could argue that he pressuring everyone and asking of explanation is town play but it could also be mafia trying to fish out blue roles What say you BKE.
On Anacletus While i hope it is your bad play. You could be the godfather and choose to appear innocent to all investigation. Anacletus, in your opinion who do you think is scum right now?
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On May 12 2012 00:22 ShiaoPi wrote: @austinmcc: Considering your thoughts on Anacletus: There is always the possibility of bad town play instead of scummy play. But doesn't the defense of Anacletus (or more the lack of) seem weird to you? Also his lack of good contributions? I guess bad townie play is always a possibility, but for now I stand by my vote.
On the accusations on BroodKingEXE: You bring up some good analysis. I guess I overlooked those aspects of his posts because I was more busy defending my posts against him than analyzing. I'll have to reread his filter thoroughly though, before doing anything.
I think that Anacletus has contributed very little. And that's generous. If I were breaking down everything he's posted, a statement that he reads BioSC as mafia is the ONLY remotely pro-town thing he's posted, and he doesn't back that read up or post a case, so it has absolutely no value.
His lack of a defense does seem weird to me. Weird, but not entirely scummy, for a few reasons.
- His defense is...nonexistant. He says one thing, then another. Doesn't want to draw attention to himself and attract more votes. Wants a headcount. Play this scenario out in your head. You're scum. Your scumbuddy gets called out in thread. What do you do? Don't you go to QT, put your heads together, figure out SOME kind of defense. Maybe the other members defend him, hard, soft, whatever. Maybe you feed him good points to throw out in the thread. But you can't just throw him to the wolves or bus him on D1, can you? Don't you have to try SOMETHING, when it's that early in the day and town is so focused on him?
Yet there's none of that.
- A good portion of this thread yesterday was everyone checking in and chiming in. Hey, here's my post, I see everyone thinks Anac is scum. Yeah, he seems scummy. Anac Y U SO SCUMMY? His flailing, to some extent, seems like a bad reaction to that, i.e. bad town play. His posts to me say, "I got no breathing room, felt like I had to defend myself, but I just couldn't because the accusations kept coming in."
- I don't think there's ANY way for Anac to defend himself. His play has been so nonsensical that he's dug a hole he can't climb out of. Think about it, is there anything he could say to defend his actions, make them seem logical? Not for me.
So that's my reasoning. He got no help, even though a mafia lynch this early would be crushing to the scumteam. He kept giving poor responses to everything, which makes it seem like he didn't sit down and think.
I'm not saying we remove the FOS. I'm just rather see what happens if we let him be for a little bit. Make it known that he has no town cred, and needs to stop, really dig into the thread, and give us some good reads and analysis (Make a real case against BioSC if you think he's scummy), which we might not even care about because he lost his cred. If he doesn't give us anything useful, he's a great candidate for tomorrow. I just want to see what he does, how he plays, when he's not getting voted or questioned every 15 minutes in thread.
But in my gut, his play screams "bad" more than it screams "scum." Whereas with Broodking, his posts, his logic, and to the extent that we newbies have meta, his meta, DO scream scum to me.
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Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy.
Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me.
BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 13:19 BioSC wrote:Alright, here goes. First, though, the guy's name is Anacletus. I'm going to assume the misspelling was simply a Freudian slip of the tounge >.< I'm suspicious of Darkfirex5. He seems to be trying to shift focus away from Anacletus, and this is why I think that. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: ) He's already done this twice in this day, pointing out small flaws and meaningless details in my posts to try and get an argument started against me. My strategy to deal with it was to stamp it out. Just because I'm putting pressure on someone, though, doesn't mean I'm not looking for more reads. There are at least 4 mafia in this game, and town needs to find them all to win. By me saying I'm watching his posts, I mean exactly that. I'm trying to stay pretty crystal in my intentions in this game. Another I'm iffy about is Mufaa. He hasn't posted much, and has given a reason about jobs and shifts taking up a lot of time. His other posts are a question on when the end time for voting is (useless fluff, a mod post covered that), and a weak pressure on Ana. What I can't tell is if that is just shoddy town play, or mafia bussing. Either way, I need more posts from him to either change or strengthen my read on him.
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On May 12 2012 01:32 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 00:22 ShiaoPi wrote: @austinmcc: Considering your thoughts on Anacletus: There is always the possibility of bad town play instead of scummy play. But doesn't the defense of Anacletus (or more the lack of) seem weird to you? Also his lack of good contributions? I guess bad townie play is always a possibility, but for now I stand by my vote.
On the accusations on BroodKingEXE: You bring up some good analysis. I guess I overlooked those aspects of his posts because I was more busy defending my posts against him than analyzing. I'll have to reread his filter thoroughly though, before doing anything.
I think that Anacletus has contributed very little. And that's generous. If I were breaking down everything he's posted, a statement that he reads BioSC as mafia is the ONLY remotely pro-town thing he's posted, and he doesn't back that read up or post a case, so it has absolutely no value. His lack of a defense does seem weird to me. Weird, but not entirely scummy, for a few reasons. - His defense is...nonexistant. He says one thing, then another. Doesn't want to draw attention to himself and attract more votes. Wants a headcount. Play this scenario out in your head. You're scum. Your scumbuddy gets called out in thread. What do you do? Don't you go to QT, put your heads together, figure out SOME kind of defense. Maybe the other members defend him, hard, soft, whatever. Maybe you feed him good points to throw out in the thread. But you can't just throw him to the wolves or bus him on D1, can you? Don't you have to try SOMETHING, when it's that early in the day and town is so focused on him?
Yet there's none of that.
- A good portion of this thread yesterday was everyone checking in and chiming in. Hey, here's my post, I see everyone thinks Anac is scum. Yeah, he seems scummy. Anac Y U SO SCUMMY? His flailing, to some extent, seems like a bad reaction to that, i.e. bad town play. His posts to me say, "I got no breathing room, felt like I had to defend myself, but I just couldn't because the accusations kept coming in."
- I don't think there's ANY way for Anac to defend himself. His play has been so nonsensical that he's dug a hole he can't climb out of. Think about it, is there anything he could say to defend his actions, make them seem logical? Not for me.
So that's my reasoning. He got no help, even though a mafia lynch this early would be crushing to the scumteam. He kept giving poor responses to everything, which makes it seem like he didn't sit down and think. I'm not saying we remove the FOS. I'm just rather see what happens if we let him be for a little bit. Make it known that he has no town cred, and needs to stop, really dig into the thread, and give us some good reads and analysis (Make a real case against BioSC if you think he's scummy), which we might not even care about because he lost his cred. If he doesn't give us anything useful, he's a great candidate for tomorrow. I just want to see what he does, how he plays, when he's not getting voted or questioned every 15 minutes in thread. But in my gut, his play screams "bad" more than it screams "scum." Whereas with Broodking, his posts, his logic, and to the extent that we newbies have meta, his meta, DO scream scum to me. You can't keep a FoS on someone and be on the fence about them being scum. You obviously think he is town, but are setting yourself up so that it looks like you had suspicions on him. Hedging would allow you to say "I didn't think he was scum" if he flipped town. This strikes me as scummy.
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It's a finger of suspicion. I'm suspicious of him. I've given my reasons that I think he's town and my reasons that I think he's scum.
Don't try and discredit me. Try and discredit that case on you. Or maybe you're hoping it sits there and gets buried before the end of D1 so that you don't get lynched.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On May 12 2012 02:39 austinmcc wrote: It's a finger of suspicion. I'm suspicious of him. I've given my reasons that I think he's town and my reasons that I think he's scum.
Don't try and discredit me. Try and discredit that case on you. Or maybe you're hoping it sits there and gets buried before the end of D1 so that you don't get lynched.
I am actually pretty interested in what you have to say as well BroodkingEXE. Mind enlightening us? austinmcc seems to have made quite a good case against you, which I am inclined to give credibility.
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I was going to sit back and see what was BKE gonna do with the pressure on him after his two post.
If he was just going to continue ignoring it and hope it past *SCUM* or something else
but since that isnt going to happen now after austinmcc and shiaopi has made it clear that they want an answer. what do you have to say BKE?
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On May 12 2012 00:18 Nova_Terra wrote: Vote Count:
Anacletus(8): Hyaach, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, Dahdum, Darkfirex5, Anacletus, BioSC, BroodkingEXE BroodkingEXE(1): austinmcc Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Crossfire99, Unforgiven_ve Currently, Anacletus is set to be lynched. Please feel free to PM me if my vote count is incorrect, just let me know.
This appears to still be the vote. We've got less than 5 hours til lynch. My vote is locked in unless I see a great defense quick. Otherwise I'm assuming (a) Scum hopes the BroodKing case doesn't get read before the deadline or (b) Scumteam taking its time in QT to work out how to play things.
Town, do us a favor. Don't let (a) happen. If we mislynch because we have bad reads, fine. We just need to work on our analysis, and that's one reason we're in a newbie game. But if we mislynch because of inactivity, that's not a good town environment.
Especially people like Anac. You're voting yourself. If you want to, fine, but that doesn't really speak in your favor.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
4 Hours to lynchtime. Judging from BroodkingEXE's sudden lack of posts it could be concluded that we hit a nerve. So for now I will
##unvote
I would assume that most people have read austinmcc's case now. Mind sharing your opinions? Thus far we got austinmcc's, hyaach's and my thoughts on them. Come on guys, post!
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Yes, we are close to lynch time, and Brood hasn't shown himself for 2+ hours. However, I don't like the precedence swapping the bandwagon onto him says about play. I feel like it gives scum an out.
"Well, even though my posts were scummy, and the majority of town have been calling me out on it, and I've yet to offer anything positive to town, you guys forgave Ana, why not forgive me?"
For now, my vote stays as is. As we wind down to time, though, what does that mean if Brood doesn't show up till night starts? What is our plan before then? Do we all switch the bandwagon to Brood for a last minute lynch? Or is it a last minute ploy by mafia to save scum that has been playing badly?
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My response to that hypothetical argument is, "We're not forgiving anyone. We vote for the scummiest player."
As to a plan, I don't think we should discuss that. I do hope that votes swap over and we lynch Brood. However, if we start discussing in the thread, "If x happens, town should do A. If y happens, town should do B," then mafia knows exactly how to play the rest of D1. Find the outcome they want, act accordingly, and let town do the work.
So personally, I'm more for everyone voting their strongest read. For me, Brood is the scummiest player. I think his content and his actions have been scummy, and they don't mesh up with his play as town in VIII. I think Anac's content and actions have been either scummy or just...bad play. Just more convinced on Brood, so he gets my vote.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
As it stands right now, Anacletus will get lynched as he has the most votes. And a lynch on him is fine on my watch as well. Just want to get something more telling from BroodkingEXE. He seems to have conveniently vanished as pressure against him mounted up. As crappy as it was Anacletus did try to defend himself. He still is one of the bigger scumreads right now and as austinmcc argued correctly he has absolutely zero credibility right now. So as scum, who might attempt to sway town's discussion he is worthless at the moment until he steps it up and starts to give us reasons to believe him again. BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this:+ Show Spoiler +Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy.
Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me.
BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. )
His other post calls out austinmcc as scummy for repeating his beliefs on Anacletus (that he is a bad townie but not necessarily mafia).
BroodkingEXE's post were done after austinmcc's case against him and yet he managed to ignore it completely. So either 1) He did not see/read austinmcc's post (highly unlikely) 2) He did read it and chose to ignore it as he seems safe enough with the current votecount
So the only way to get him into talking seems to be to unvote one by one and making him think of his own position of less than secure. I just want to hear more from him, if we do not get him to talk and Anacletus is lynched, at least we will know Anacletus' role and from there on we have more room to expand our discussion. Either way they are both top priorities for pressure/questioning regardless of whom we lynch today.
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Which is a fair conclusion. I am also voting for the person I believe is the most scummy, which is Anac. Your points on Brood, however, haven't been lost on me. Reading through his filter along with your case against him definitely raises my suspicions towards him.
My second half of the post was more of a discussion starter than a concrete plan for us to follow. As of right now, the only people on and even discussing the case this close to lynch is you, me, and ShiaoPi. If you want to get your lynch case through, the best way to do that is discussion, and by trying to convince the 4 non-voters as of yet to vote your way, but even then, I feel like the case against Anac is already too stacked against him to change.
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Looking at the vote count, there are still people who haven't voted. What will happen if those 4 people do not vote by the time?
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Warning/possible modkill depending on the situation
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On May 12 2012 01:13 Hyaach wrote: There is basically 8 hours left in this day. We are hard pressed against time. On the BKE suspicions. I actually felt that it is a valid direction. If you filter his post, he does post often but its all fluff. There is never anything constructive to the town from him. You could argue that he pressuring everyone and asking of explanation is town play but it could also be mafia trying to fish out blue roles What say you BKE.
On Anacletus While i hope it is your bad play. You could be the godfather and choose to appear innocent to all investigation. Anacletus, in your opinion who do you think is scum right now?
I actually don't agree with you guys in your suspicions of BioSC being mafia. I also think that Dahdum and Mufaa are also citizens as well.
My best guess as to who is mafia would be BKE I guess, but I'm not too certain which is why I haven't really raised my voice in this instance.
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Sorry for being so inactive, I’ve been very busy today. I haven’t been able to keep up with the thread very much, so I’ll focus on two things. My current position on Anacletus and this newfound suspicion on BroodKingEXE
In relation to Anacletus:
So far he has said he has had no information + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 09:22 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 09:16 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information. I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume? . Then he goes on to have a suspicion of BioSC + Show Spoiler + My personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself. backed up with little evidence. He also calls dahdum a bit suspicious because he posted his reads on everyone. (Note: I sort of agree with him here. I don’t think it is necessarily scummy, but a list of your reads on someone is not as helpful as a case against a few people. These posts also allow an easy for scum to hide and seem like they are doing work. In the end this quote goes in his favor.) Lastly he defends himself by saying is just a bad townie and doesn’t have any reads on everyone, just guesses+ Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 01:01 Anacletus wrote: Yeah, it's just bad town play. I really hope you guys don't lynch me and let the cop check me or something.
In the beginning I was just being reckless to start up the conversations. I've said it multiple times, but I'll say it again, I have no interest in hanging anyone yet as everything is just inconclusive guesses. . This isn’t a good defense because we have to lynch someone day 1 and since we have to lynch someone, he should put in work looking for scum instead of whatever little effort he has been giving so far. Right now he is just making excuses for not scum hunting. -------------------------------------- Now onto BroodKingEXE:
I will start with this quote from ausitnmcc. It is his case against Brood. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 22:38 austinmcc wrote:My thoughts on Anacletus: His play does not feel like good townie play. I brought that up earlier, we've all discussed it by now, and I think we all seem to come to the same conclusion. While I would support a lynch of Anacletus, I think we have better targets. I'll look through his responses more today, but for now I would prefer to look elsewhere, and see how Anacletus continues to play. Right now, "not good townie play" is my read, but I'm not convinced that his play is scummy and not just bad townie play. However, we've got a quarter of D1 left, and I want to throw this case out and push it a little, see what comes of it. My top scum read: BroodKingEXE. BroodKingEXE filter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707&user=233869Skip 2/3 of the first page. It's pregame. He's active, vocal, chatting a lot with everyone in the pregame. Doesn't really mean anything. First posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 12:53 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm
Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. ##Vote: Firm Tofu These aren't entirely incompatible. Lynching lurkers bad, pressuring them good, let people post before we jump to conclusions. That seems townie, fine and dandy, but then he fires off the very first vote of the game on FirmTofu. Why? Because FirmTofu posted + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. Look at the bolded part of Broodking's first post. Now back to me. Now back to the bolded part of FirmTofu's post. Now back to me. Anything? That's the same exact thought process. And yet when FirmTofu vocalizes that, Broodking fires off the first vote of the game. I still don't agree with that vote at all, even if it was just to "pressure" someone, because there's absolutely no grounds for voting someone because they express a thought you just expressed slightly earlier. From then on out, it's a series of one-liner and response posts, but never really DOING anything. Last night (eastern time), BroodKing had one of the longest filters, and yet the only substantive post was him voting FirmTofu off the bat. For example: + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 03:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. This line stood out to me. BroodKing threw out of FIRST vote of the game on Tofu, before there was play to analyze and before Tofu responded to anything. Why does he need a response now to vote? After that, he starts giving responses to other people, specifically ShiaoPi's reads, but doesn't really add anything of substance. scummy+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none. On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. On May 11 2012 09:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet. Note that at this point, ShiaoPi has just thrown out the first real list of reads we had from anyone. BroodKing posts a couple times concerning the list, but doesn't really add anything. While he gets information out of ShiaoPi, he doesn't really provide any himself. At no point in those posts does he agree with a read or disagree with a read, rather, he simply acknowledges that reads were made and ShiaoPi voted. This is also the first point we begin to move AWAY from the Anacletus discussion (which has run its course at this point), and BroodKing continues to ask for information based on ShiaoPi's vote for Anacletus. Finally, compare his filter from this game with his filter from Newbie VIII, where he was town. + Show Spoiler + There are some posts in a similar style to his posts here, but a LOT of @x and @y, what do you guys think about z. Lots of longer discussions, paragraphs, lists. SOME of that is because he was the lynch target D1 and so had to be active and defend himself. But his townie posts from VIII feel more robust and they contribute, whereas his posts so far in XIII do not. ------------------------------- Anacletus's play still feels more bad than scummy. I would like to let him live for now, and see if he starts to really contribute. Right now he has 0 town cred, so if he's mafia he can't actively muck up town discussion. If we back off the pressure, MAYBE he mounts a decent defense and provides some good reads, because...he's got to do that to get any cred back. If not? We lynch him later, or we see if we can get any information N1 from blue roles that push us forward. Compared to Anacletus though, BroodKingEXE looks actively scummy. So far he hasn't contributed anything of note except the first vote of the game, which made little sense. He's supports getting responses before voting, but then votes without a response from FirmTofu. He wants scumhunting and reasoning, but has provided none. Again, I'm not opposed to an Anacletus lynch, but I would prefer to lynch the player that seems scummiest, which is BroodKing. ##Vote BroodKingEXE ##FOS: AnacletusDahdum, I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on this, as you read BroodKing to be scummy as well. I didn't really notice him until I looked through all the filters last night and realized he was my best scumread. Do you agree with my reasoning? Did you have different reasoning?
I agree with some of what Austin has said because when I did my own read through of Brood’s filter, it is just a mess of garbage posts. He also hypocritically accuses Firmtofu and votes for him because Formtofu said to wait until everyone has posted before judging them evev though he said the same thing.
But, I will say that his redeeming quality is that he is pretty active and is suspicios of these giant “here are my reads for every person in the game” posts. I don’t like these posts that much because as he pointed out, they are an easy way for scum to hide and seem like they are doing work, but in reality they aren’t.
This means that he is less scummy in my eyes than Anacletus, but I am going to keep my eye on him in the future.
##Vote Anacletus
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 22:38 austinmcc wrote:My thoughts on Anacletus: His play does not feel like good townie play. I brought that up earlier, we've all discussed it by now, and I think we all seem to come to the same conclusion. While I would support a lynch of Anacletus, I think we have better targets. I'll look through his responses more today, but for now I would prefer to look elsewhere, and see how Anacletus continues to play. Right now, "not good townie play" is my read, but I'm not convinced that his play is scummy and not just bad townie play. However, we've got a quarter of D1 left, and I want to throw this case out and push it a little, see what comes of it. My top scum read: BroodKingEXE. BroodKingEXE filter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707&user=233869Skip 2/3 of the first page. It's pregame. He's active, vocal, chatting a lot with everyone in the pregame. Doesn't really mean anything. First posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 12:53 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm
Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. ##Vote: Firm Tofu These aren't entirely incompatible. Lynching lurkers bad, pressuring them good, let people post before we jump to conclusions. That seems townie, fine and dandy, but then he fires off the very first vote of the game on FirmTofu. Why? Because FirmTofu posted + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. Look at the bolded part of Broodking's first post. Now back to me. Now back to the bolded part of FirmTofu's post. Now back to me. Anything? That's the same exact thought process. And yet when FirmTofu vocalizes that, Broodking fires off the first vote of the game. I still don't agree with that vote at all, even if it was just to "pressure" someone, because there's absolutely no grounds for voting someone because they express a thought you just expressed slightly earlier. From then on out, it's a series of one-liner and response posts, but never really DOING anything. Last night (eastern time), BroodKing had one of the longest filters, and yet the only substantive post was him voting FirmTofu off the bat. For example: + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 03:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. This line stood out to me. BroodKing threw out of FIRST vote of the game on Tofu, before there was play to analyze and before Tofu responded to anything. Why does he need a response now to vote? After that, he starts giving responses to other people, specifically ShiaoPi's reads, but doesn't really add anything of substance. scummy+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none. On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. On May 11 2012 09:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet. Note that at this point, ShiaoPi has just thrown out the first real list of reads we had from anyone. BroodKing posts a couple times concerning the list, but doesn't really add anything. While he gets information out of ShiaoPi, he doesn't really provide any himself. At no point in those posts does he agree with a read or disagree with a read, rather, he simply acknowledges that reads were made and ShiaoPi voted. This is also the first point we begin to move AWAY from the Anacletus discussion (which has run its course at this point), and BroodKing continues to ask for information based on ShiaoPi's vote for Anacletus. Finally, compare his filter from this game with his filter from Newbie VIII, where he was town. + Show Spoiler + There are some posts in a similar style to his posts here, but a LOT of @x and @y, what do you guys think about z. Lots of longer discussions, paragraphs, lists. SOME of that is because he was the lynch target D1 and so had to be active and defend himself. But his townie posts from VIII feel more robust and they contribute, whereas his posts so far in XIII do not. ------------------------------- + Show Spoiler [analectus] + Anacletus's play still feels more bad than scummy. I would like to let him live for now, and see if he starts to really contribute. Right now he has 0 town cred, so if he's mafia he can't actively muck up town discussion. If we back off the pressure, MAYBE he mounts a decent defense and provides some good reads, because...he's got to do that to get any cred back. If not? We lynch him later, or we see if we can get any information N1 from blue roles that push us forward.
Compared to Anacletus though, BroodKingEXE looks actively scummy. So far he hasn't contributed anything of note except the first vote of the game, which made little sense. He's supports getting responses before voting, but then votes without a response from FirmTofu. He wants scumhunting and reasoning, but has provided none. Again, I'm not opposed to an Anacletus lynch, but I would prefer to lynch the player that seems scummiest, which is BroodKing.
##Vote BroodKingEXE ##FOS: Anacletus
Dahdum, I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on this, as you read BroodKing to be scummy as well. I didn't really notice him until I looked through all the filters last night and realized he was my best scumread. Do you agree with my reasoning? Did you have different reasoning?
The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum.
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I'm all for further discussion, just interpreted that as wanting to lay out a concrete plan, which worried me.
I don't have anything more to add to the case, other than Brood's response posts didn't do anything for me. He's yet to really post a defense. He sort of called me out as scummy, but didn't push that at all.
However, I think the overall behavior today supports a lynch of Brood over Anac. Think about these possible scenarios:
Anac is mafia, Brood is town. Someone jumps in with a case against another player. It makes sense, has some analysis there. If you're mafia, don't you jump on that? Don't you try as hard as you can to swing the vote towards Brood over Anac, pushing for a wagon as hard as you can? Why, if Anac is mafia and Brood isn't, would we not see more people coming in, sheeping my posts, pushing Brood hard? (Yeah, I'm pushing Brood. No, I'm not mafia. Just defending and pushing my own case and read, rather than jumping on an already-present wagon).
Anac is town, Brood is mafia. You've got anac swinging, you've all but ensured a mislynch D1, you're sitting pretty as mafia. Then a case comes out on Brood. Wtf. Not good. Bury it, don't respond to it, stifle discussion, keep your sights on Anac. Until there's a critical amount of pressure, you don't have to do anything. But above all, you wait and you see what happens, and you start planning your responds.
Both are mafia. Well, you're just probably boned. If town's two strongest reads are 2/3 your team, enjoy the loss. No way can you present a third candidate in time and hope for a mislynch.
Both are town. Who cares? No way is town lynching mafia, you can sit back and relax.
The response so far basically fits into almost any of those categories. No big pushing response. The ONE category that the response doesn't fit is Anac scum and Brood town. If that were the case, mafia should be trying so hard to start a wagon rolling. But they're not. So to me, the case AND the response fit Brood being scum (not counting the scenario where both are town and a mislynch is guaranteed). Just consider that. How would you expect the scumteam to play this, and has that actually happened? They're not giving us a lot to work with here, waiting things out and not slipping up within the last few hours. But is that lack of content a tell in and of itself?
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
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On May 12 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote: I'm all for further discussion, just interpreted that as wanting to lay out a concrete plan, which worried me.
I don't have anything more to add to the case, other than Brood's response posts didn't do anything for me. He's yet to really post a defense. He sort of called me out as scummy, but didn't push that at all.
However, I think the overall behavior today supports a lynch of Brood over Anac. Think about these possible scenarios:
Anac is mafia, Brood is town. Someone jumps in with a case against another player. It makes sense, has some analysis there. If you're mafia, don't you jump on that? Don't you try as hard as you can to swing the vote towards Brood over Anac, pushing for a wagon as hard as you can? Why, if Anac is mafia and Brood isn't, would we not see more people coming in, sheeping my posts, pushing Brood hard? (Yeah, I'm pushing Brood. No, I'm not mafia. Just defending and pushing my own case and read, rather than jumping on an already-present wagon).
Anac is town, Brood is mafia. You've got anac swinging, you've all but ensured a mislynch D1, you're sitting pretty as mafia. Then a case comes out on Brood. Wtf. Not good. Bury it, don't respond to it, stifle discussion, keep your sights on Anac. Until there's a critical amount of pressure, you don't have to do anything. But above all, you wait and you see what happens, and you start planning your responds.
Both are mafia. Well, you're just probably boned. If town's two strongest reads are 2/3 your team, enjoy the loss. No way can you present a third candidate in time and hope for a mislynch.
Both are town. Who cares? No way is town lynching mafia, you can sit back and relax.
The response so far basically fits into almost any of those categories. No big pushing response. The ONE category that the response doesn't fit is Anac scum and Brood town. If that were the case, mafia should be trying so hard to start a wagon rolling. But they're not. So to me, the case AND the response fit Brood being scum (not counting the scenario where both are town and a mislynch is guaranteed). Just consider that. How would you expect the scumteam to play this, and has that actually happened? They're not giving us a lot to work with here, waiting things out and not slipping up within the last few hours. But is that lack of content a tell in and of itself?
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
Incredibly insightful, sir. Upon this note and that I am still being voted for I'd like to re-assert that I am NOT mafia.
##Unvote ##Vote BroodKingEXE
What is the FOS ##name thing about? I've tried to find an answer, and I've either overlooked FOS somewhere or it stands for something I don't know
I'd just like to reassert that since I have a majority of votes on me - either the mafia is voting with you guys making it seem like a majority of town is voting, or they aren't in which case you might want to look at who else is being voted for. My opinion as of right now is that mafia is voting unanimously, so everyone should take a moment and note what the vote counts are for future use. In the case I get hung please assume that they voted unanimously and go from there as you'll see I am a townie upon my death.
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I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
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On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
What is QT?
I think I still have 6-7 votes on me with 3-4 on BKE and 2-3 undecided - I could be wrong, but I'm trying to account for the swing votes in association with the last official vote count.
This vote count ISN'T official - just trying to give you a rough estimate so you don't have to spend extra time looking back.
Yes - I agree 100% that I'm just getting bandwagoned by mafia at this point. Receiving 8 votes off day 1 is just ridiculous and as stated before I think that they are voting unanimously at this point.
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On May 12 2012 05:07 BroodKingEXE wrote: The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum.
In the first bolded passage, you say it doesn't make you look scummy. Yet - I think it does
- ShiaoPi seems to think it does
- Hyaach seems to think it does
- Bio has his suspicions raised by it
- Crossfire will keep his eye on you
That's 5 people. Not quite half of the players in the game. Most of the players who have been active today. And your response to all those people questioning you is to say the case "doesn't make you look scummy"? Clearly there's something there. If you really think that the case doesn't make you look scummy, then why does everyone else seem to think otherwise?
As to the second post, you're going to "call out others." Great. When are you going to do that? I see that you tried, you posted two weak reads in hopes of shifting the discussion. What was the response to those reads?
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:42 ShiaoPi wrote:BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this: + Show Spoiler +Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy.
Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me.
BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. )
You throw out a few names. Write a sentence or two. Really calling them out there. It didn't convince ShiaoPi; it doesn't convince me. You claim my case doesn't make you look scummy, but we all seem to disagree. You claim your plan is to call out others, but you never really do so.
And most damning? You wait 5 or 6 hours to post that defense. Moreover, you posted during that time, so it's not like you were entirely away from the thread. You came back to post those comments about Jailbreaker and Bio, to respond to my FoS of all things, but you didn't take a moment to write out your defense? Why not? Waiting to form a decent response in scum QT?
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FoS = Finger of suspicion. It's not a vote, but it's just a public "I'm watching you." QT = quick topic? Whatever it is. It's a separate forum that the scum team has access to. They can post in there, plan their actions, discuss how to respond to town. If you check some old games, usually the host will post the scum QT and an observer QT so everyone can read over what scum was thinking during the game and what anyone observing was thinking.
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On May 12 2012 05:29 austinmcc wrote: FoS = Finger of suspicion. It's not a vote, but it's just a public "I'm watching you." QT = quick topic? Whatever it is. It's a separate forum that the scum team has access to. They can post in there, plan their actions, discuss how to respond to town. If you check some old games, usually the host will post the scum QT and an observer QT so everyone can read over what scum was thinking during the game and what anyone observing was thinking.
Thanks for the informative response!
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##unvote ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Might not be enough to swing it, but I feel more comfortable lynchying BKE than Anac at this point.
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On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
As of 3 EST we had
Anacletus(8): Hyaach, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, Dahdum, Darkfirex5, Anacletus, BioSC, BroodkingEXE BroodkingEXE(1): austinmcc Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Crossfire99, Unforgiven_ve
Shiao unvoted. Crossfire voted Anac. Anac unvoted and voted BroodKing.
So as it stands
Anac(7) - Hyaach, FirmTofu, Dahdum, Darkfirex5, BioSC, BroodKingEXE, Crossfire BroodKingEXE(2) - austinmcc, Anacletus Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances.
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EBWOP: You posted as I was counting.
Currently at 6 on Anac. 3 on BK. 4 not voting. Unless I've miscounted anyone.
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On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
Your tunnelling on me makes absolutely no sense. We've had pretty much the exact same reads on people, excepting of course that for whatever strange reason you believe I'm playing scummy. I've already asked you for reasons on why you think I'm scum, but frankly they are pretty tame and only serve to distract and cause more arguments.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 12:57 dahdum wrote:@biosc Sure, this is why I think you're scummy: Show nested quote + Sounds like a solid strategy. Basic, but solid. Getting rid of lurkers/low content players seems like a win/win. If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
You're agreeing with me here, but then the "they would be as bad as scum" phrase really seems out of place. My first suspicion based on that. Show nested quote + While I agree that the back half of his post is worthy of discussion, I would hope that simply saying that him hoping you aren't mafia is worthy of a lynch. Maybe it's just me, but that simply sounds as if he remembers you from a previous game, and perhaps you did well as mafia then. I feel like the mafia/town alignment of a previous game shouldn't be a factor in deciding whom to lynch in THIS game.
Show nested quote +Read what I posted again. I threw my suspicions towards him as well. Not sure what about my post was defending him.
By throwing your suspicions I assume you mean the phrase "back half of his post is worthy of discussion". Super passive and non-committal. Show nested quote +Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. Sounds like something one scum says to another. I'd also like to hear more on who you think is suspicious beyond Analectus?
What is your goal here? You believe I'm scum, but have the same reads as a scum? I'm not even sure you follow your own logic. We are discussing the lynch of Anacletus or BroodKingExe, Why would you bring me into this discussion, if not to distract from what we are discussing. If you have a case against me, make it. So far your suspicions of me have been weak at best, so I hope that if you are making a case, it's better than "He said some cryptic things on day 1", and "He had a scum read on one of my reads, but said something I believe to be scumtalk" Honestly this whole half-assed commited case you have against me just strengthens my case for you being scum.
Back to the case at hand. I've stated multiple times that I believe Anacletus to be scum, however, with the recent case against BXE, I'm inclined to swap my vote to him. The biggest reason I am to swap my vote over, is this line in Austin's case.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote:
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
Both players have had people call them out on being scummy. However, due to Anac losing all credit with the town, regardless of affiliation, it would be tough for him ,should he be mafia, to get any ball rolling on someone else in town. It's not a forgiveness for bad play, its a delay in action for a scum target appearing more scummy near the end of the day.
## Unvote ## Vote BroodKingEXE
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That brings the vote to
Anac(5) - Hyaach, FirmTofu, Darkfirex5, BroodKingEXE, Crossfire BroodKingEXE(4) - austinmcc, Anacletus, dahdum, BioSC Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi
Hyaach, Shiao, and Unforgiven have all come in and posted today, as has Cross. Cross came in and voted Anac, gave some reasoning as to why he still preferred that case. Hyaach I know you did the same, and were waiting on BK's answer. Any thoughts after seeing it?
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@Anac. The first one does make sense. I could be town and the Mafia could be letting you push me, because they know I am town. They don't even need to take ownership for their vote and could keep their vote on Analect. People who vote for me can be on either side. Bussing or wagoning are options for mafia. What about my response doesn't convince you?
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EBWOP: My bad posted this and didn't see his reponse to my response.
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On May 12 2012 05:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:07 BroodKingEXE wrote: The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum. In the first bolded passage, you say it doesn't make you look scummy. Yet - I think it does
- ShiaoPi seems to think it does
- Hyaach seems to think it does
- Bio has his suspicions raised by it
- Crossfire will keep his eye on you
That's 5 people. Not quite half of the players in the game. Most of the players who have been active today. And your response to all those people questioning you is to say the case "doesn't make you look scummy"? Clearly there's something there. If you really think that the case doesn't make you look scummy, then why does everyone else seem to think otherwise? As to the second post, you're going to "call out others." Great. When are you going to do that? I see that you tried, you posted two weak reads in hopes of shifting the discussion. What was the response to those reads? + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:42 ShiaoPi wrote:BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this: + Show Spoiler +Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy.
Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me.
BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. ) You throw out a few names. Write a sentence or two. Really calling them out there. It didn't convince ShiaoPi; it doesn't convince me. You claim my case doesn't make you look scummy, but we all seem to disagree. You claim your plan is to call out others, but you never really do so. And most damning? You wait 5 or 6 hours to post that defense. Moreover, you posted during that time, so it's not like you were entirely away from the thread. You came back to post those comments about Jailbreaker and Bio, to respond to my FoS of all things, but you didn't take a moment to write out your defense? Why not? Waiting to form a decent response in scum QT?
Am I not entitled to my own opinion? The things you have posted in your original case don't make me look that scummy. The thing that Tofu said and I said are different. He wants to lynch lurkers and I don't (at least not till a couple more days). I have called out others, do you see all those "useless one-liners"? They are calling out things I saw as potentially scummy. Do I have to wait and post a culmination of these posts all at once? For the most part you haven't actually looked at the majority of my posts for their content. Your final sentence doesn't make sense in terms of scum. Why would I not defend myself (as scum), when the town was obviously against me? Look at where waiting has got me, second-highest lynch canidate for day 1. It could just be I didn't see your post like I didn't see this response.
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I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Less than 2 Hours until lynch.
Seems like the majority of people caught up on the conversation while I was gone. Including BroodKingEXE, whose defense remains to be this post here:
+ Show Spoiler +The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum.
Our main questions and suspicions on you were not regarding your first vote on Tofu, which to me still seems like a reasonable way to gain some information on day 1, but we were much more concerned with the general picture that you seem to be calling out a few people, but not really making a case against them. Your response was that you have been "drawing information", which is a perfectly fine method to play. But now the spotlight is on you. When it was on Anacletus and he responded in a similar manner, you simply asked:
+ Show Spoiler +@Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information.
That is exactly what I am asking you now. What have you been doing all the time? You have obviously read the case against you, you had almost 48 hours to make up your mind on several suspects and things in a orderly manner. So what are your findings? What are the information you have gathered until now? If you cannot post something which convinces me of your opinion, you will have my vote.
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Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
Austin's point about how even if Ana is scum he's lost so much credibility he can't make a push on someone d2. If he doesn't improve his play we might have to take him out later, but right now if we lynch him we won't gain any real info. Everyone has been on to him at some point, so if he flips town we gain almost nothing from this since his posts lack any content. If he flips scum the scum would lose a player, but that honestly might help them if he really is scum and is playing like this.
If we lynch someone else and they flip town, we can see who has been focused on them, who stayed out of the discussion on that person and we at least have some good info to discuss over d2. The odds are just as good of anyone else flipping scum, so I would rather flip someone who would give us info instead of giving scum the option to hide behind the excuse that Ana was such a bad townie, how could everyone not vote for him.
I think BroodKingEXE needs to post some content instead of one liners and just agreeing with people as it comes off scummy, but he isn't my first choice at the moment.
Jailbreaker- Why haven't you posted in the last 3 and a half pages? You commented early on about how much aggression there was but you haven't made a single case, even hinted at having a read, or contributed to the town in any way. Why are you so content to just sit back and watch everyone else debate with the deadline so close?
##Vote Jailbreaker
This isn't a permanent vote. I think Jailbreaker is the best lynch so far. If no one else feels this way, I will swing my vote to BroodKingEXE to get some info from the lynch as I do think his actual content will give us something to compare to everyone else d2 once we see his flip.
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@Shiao Pi: Firm and your responses have convinced me you aren't scum. Did I single-handedly make you guys talk? No, but it has helped me figure out that you guys aren't scum in my mind. I realize I probaly should be looking around more and creating better cases, but as of now I don't see anything mind blowingly scummy (except Ana). Until I do, I won't be making the biggest cases and will keep looking for minor blips post by post.
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I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now.
##vote BroodKingEXE
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On May 12 2012 06:13 BroodKingEXE wrote: ---snipped---
Am I not entitled to my own opinion? The things you have posted in your original case don't make me look that scummy. The thing that Tofu said and I said are different. He wants to lynch lurkers and I don't (at least not till a couple more days). I have called out others, do you see all those "useless one-liners"? They are calling out things I saw as potentially scummy. Do I have to wait and post a culmination of these posts all at once? For the most part you haven't actually looked at the majority of my posts for their content. Your final sentence doesn't make sense in terms of scum. Why would I not defend myself (as scum), when the town was obviously against me? Look at where waiting has got me, second-highest lynch canidate for day 1. It could just be I didn't see your post like I didn't see this response.
As I said already the Tofuvote was fine by me and you are indeed not someone, who seems to be a obvious scum candidate but the general "feeling" your posts give out is that you contribute maybe too little for the activity you are showing. All your posts and suspicions so far have been pretty much sheeping the opinions of others, instead of pointing out maybe additional oddities you have found (except for your slight pressure on austinmcc as in here: + Show Spoiler + You can't keep a FoS on someone and be on the fence about them being scum. You obviously think he is town, but are setting yourself up so that it looks like you had suspicions on him. Hedging would allow you to say "I didn't think he was scum" if he flipped town. This strikes me as scummy.
That is in fact the first notice you take on someone or somebody's action which has not been pointed out by others beforehand.
Your posts in general give me the feeling that you try too hard to be unnoticeable. Generally there are only two kind of players who want to be unnoticeable to the town, without being suspicious, which are blue roles or scum. Blue roles want to be unnoticeable in fear of the night-hit but they also need to have some town credibility if they are forced to roleclaim at some point. Scum wants to unnoticed, because, well we are searching for them.
So a lynch on BroodkingEXE could strike out in both ways for us. We could be totally screwing us over by lynching a blue role or we get some scum on day 1.
Quite a risk I guess.
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On May 12 2012 05:57 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anac. The first one does make sense. I could be town and the Mafia could be letting you push me, because they know I am town. They don't even need to take ownership for their vote and could keep their vote on Analect. People who vote for me can be on either side. Bussing or wagoning are options for mafia. What about my response doesn't convince you?
I'll be real with you man, I don't actually have *that* much of an inclination to believing that you are mafia. It's just that it feels like it's either you or me, so I'm trying to save my own neck.
I am not without doubt of you - I just don't think that there's enough information for me to think it's worthy to hang you, but again, if it comes down to me or you, it's you... :/
I do think that others feel like you're mafia though, so that's why my vote is where it is.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Actually this came out much more defending on BroodkingExe than I intended... I guess I just wanted to say that considering the uncertainties we have on day 1 it might actually be better to let a lynch-candidate, on whom we still have open questions, live into day 2.
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Dammit, now this is a clusterfuck, let me really check the case against BKE.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Looking at Anacletus' later posts we could take a guess and say he is a townie who played bad. Especially for Mafia he is worthless right now due to his 0 town cred. Regarding BroodkingEXE, I guess I already said that he is either scum or blue. The case pushed by Mufaa is Jailbreaker, who is for sure another player high on the scum list, but there is also too little to make of him and I do not believe it warrants a lynch. Other suspects have posted little so really making a solid case against them is hard, especially within ~1 hour.
So in the end I guess we are still left with the question to lynch either Anacletus or BroodkingExe. I should probably stop rambling now and wait for your thoughts on it.
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On May 12 2012 05:57 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anac. The first one does make sense. I could be town and the Mafia could be letting you push me, because they know I am town. They don't even need to take ownership for their vote and could keep their vote on Analect. People who vote for me can be on either side. Bussing or wagoning are options for mafia. What about my response doesn't convince you? I meant austin.
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On May 12 2012 06:43 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:57 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anac. The first one does make sense. I could be town and the Mafia could be letting you push me, because they know I am town. They don't even need to take ownership for their vote and could keep their vote on Analect. People who vote for me can be on either side. Bussing or wagoning are options for mafia. What about my response doesn't convince you? I'll be real with you man, I don't actually have *that* much of an inclination to believing that you are mafia. It's just that it feels like it's either you or me, so I'm trying to save my own neck. I am not without doubt of you - I just don't think that there's enough information for me to think it's worthy to hang you, but again, if it comes down to me or you, it's you... :/ I do think that others feel like you're mafia though, so that's why my vote is where it is.
So you would push me even if you believe I am not mafia? Look at others if you dont think I am scum. The town can benefit you pushing a strong case, that would prove or disprove your innocence.
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On May 12 2012 06:17 Darkfirex5 wrote: I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia.
Filter both. Anac hasn't posted any more than Brood. If you think Anac is scummy and Brood isn't, keep your vote on Anac. But if you don't have enough posts to make a decision about Brood, I'm not sure how you had enough posts to make a decision about Anac. Granted, Anac's posts early were...bad. Bad bad.
@Firm, I keep making stupid long posts with spoiler tags and quotes and colors, but that's really the meat of my argument at this point.
On May 12 2012 06:40 FirmTofu wrote: I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now. I believed in that case. I thought Broodking looked scummy and wanted answers. The timing and content of those answers has sealed the deal for me. I'm now convinced.
@ShiaoPi, how it's been playing out today is really what has me convinced. I'm still suspicious of Anac, but Brood has surpassed him in scumminess. Anac still feels scummy. Brood feels like scum.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
In the end (with less than an hour to lynchtime) if I have to pick between Anacletus and BroodKingEXE I'll have to go with BroodKingEXE, his lynch seems more useful to me. Since even if we mislynch we gain more information from his flip than from Anacletus'
##vote BroodKingEXE
Unless something drastic happens, my vote stays.
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I think anacletus did us not good playing the way he has, i want to belive its a mafia "strategy" but its just too risky(¿?), after reading austinmcc and seeing Anacletus doesnt represent a thread anymore (im sure this will strike us some other way in the future), if BKE flips blue/town as Shaopi says, we are at 0 again thanks to Anacletus. I repeat, i dont like to be guided this easily, but i see a case, i see reasons, and i see lack of response from the accused party.
I have made up my mind after readin all posts and seeing RKE lacks of defense after the high pressure...also, this is golden Mufaa, it just raised my "interest" on you.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
....
and i agree 100% on your jailbraker FOS as i stated hours before, pointing a friend maybe?... but i think we should wait a little more.
##Vote BroodKingEXE
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On May 12 2012 06:52 BroodKingEXE wrote: What about my response doesn't convince you?
I've made a couple responses on this. Your response maintained that the case "didn't make you look scummy" or something to that effect. Clearly it did. Clearly it continues to do so. It's not really a defense if you start it with "I've got nothing to defend." I'll let the old reasons lie.
If nothing else, look, here's a NEW REASON I think you're scum.
On May 12 2012 06:13 BroodKingEXE wrote: Am I not entitled to my own opinion? The things you have posted in your original case don't make me look that scummy. The thing that Tofu said and I said are different. He wants to lynch lurkers and I don't (at least not till a couple more days). I have called out others, do you see all those "useless one-liners"? They are calling out things I saw as potentially scummy. Do I have to wait and post a culmination of these posts all at once? For the most part you haven't actually looked at the majority of my posts for their content. Your final sentence doesn't make sense in terms of scum. Why would I not defend myself (as scum), when the town was obviously against me? Look at where waiting has got me, second-highest lynch canidate for day 1. It could just be I didn't see your post like I didn't see this response.
You know, that could be it. That does give a reason why it took you so long to defend yourself. Makes sense. EXCEPT. Wait. What? What is that. Oh.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 02:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 01:32 austinmcc wrote:On May 12 2012 00:22 ShiaoPi wrote: @austinmcc: Considering your thoughts on Anacletus: There is always the possibility of bad town play instead of scummy play. But doesn't the defense of Anacletus (or more the lack of) seem weird to you? Also his lack of good contributions? I guess bad townie play is always a possibility, but for now I stand by my vote.
On the accusations on BroodKingEXE: You bring up some good analysis. I guess I overlooked those aspects of his posts because I was more busy defending my posts against him than analyzing. I'll have to reread his filter thoroughly though, before doing anything.
I think that Anacletus has contributed very little. And that's generous. If I were breaking down everything he's posted, a statement that he reads BioSC as mafia is the ONLY remotely pro-town thing he's posted, and he doesn't back that read up or post a case, so it has absolutely no value. His lack of a defense does seem weird to me. Weird, but not entirely scummy, for a few reasons. - His defense is...nonexistant. He says one thing, then another. Doesn't want to draw attention to himself and attract more votes. Wants a headcount. Play this scenario out in your head. You're scum. Your scumbuddy gets called out in thread. What do you do? Don't you go to QT, put your heads together, figure out SOME kind of defense. Maybe the other members defend him, hard, soft, whatever. Maybe you feed him good points to throw out in the thread. But you can't just throw him to the wolves or bus him on D1, can you? Don't you have to try SOMETHING, when it's that early in the day and town is so focused on him?
Yet there's none of that.
- A good portion of this thread yesterday was everyone checking in and chiming in. Hey, here's my post, I see everyone thinks Anac is scum. Yeah, he seems scummy. Anac Y U SO SCUMMY? His flailing, to some extent, seems like a bad reaction to that, i.e. bad town play. His posts to me say, "I got no breathing room, felt like I had to defend myself, but I just couldn't because the accusations kept coming in."
- I don't think there's ANY way for Anac to defend himself. His play has been so nonsensical that he's dug a hole he can't climb out of. Think about it, is there anything he could say to defend his actions, make them seem logical? Not for me.
So that's my reasoning. He got no help, even though a mafia lynch this early would be crushing to the scumteam. He kept giving poor responses to everything, which makes it seem like he didn't sit down and think. I'm not saying we remove the FOS. I'm just rather see what happens if we let him be for a little bit. Make it known that he has no town cred, and needs to stop, really dig into the thread, and give us some good reads and analysis (Make a real case against BioSC if you think he's scummy), which we might not even care about because he lost his cred. If he doesn't give us anything useful, he's a great candidate for tomorrow. I just want to see what he does, how he plays, when he's not getting voted or questioned every 15 minutes in thread. But in my gut, his play screams "bad" more than it screams "scum." Whereas with Broodking, his posts, his logic, and to the extent that we newbies have meta, his meta, DO scream scum to me. You can't keep a FoS on someone and be on the fence about them being scum. You obviously think he is town, but are setting yourself up so that it looks like you had suspicions on him. Hedging would allow you to say "I didn't think he was scum" if he flipped town. This strikes me as scummy.
That's right. You quoted my entire post in your first set of responses, hours before you mounted any defense. Not only that, you addressed the FoS that was in my post. You clearly read it. If we mislynch you, I'm going to feel like such an ass. But you actually asking "What if I didn't read it?" when you QUOTE it and address one part of it? Not buying it.
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EBWOP: Please disregard the above post. I herp derped big time and misread that quote, which was not my original case but was my first real response and discussion.
However, I will note that the post still calls BroodKing scum, mention that he "scream[s] scum." Maybe he missed the case, being called scum out of the blue would give me an inkling that something might be up.
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On May 12 2012 06:52 ShiaoPi wrote: Looking at Anacletus' later posts we could take a guess and say he is a townie who played bad. Especially for Mafia he is worthless right now due to his 0 town cred. Regarding BroodkingEXE, I guess I already said that he is either scum or blue. The case pushed by Mufaa is Jailbreaker, who is for sure another player high on the scum list, but there is also too little to make of him and I do not believe it warrants a lynch. Other suspects have posted little so really making a solid case against them is hard, especially within ~1 hour.
So in the end I guess we are still left with the question to lynch either Anacletus or BroodkingExe. I should probably stop rambling now and wait for your thoughts on it.
Let me clarify my vote. I wasn't making a concerted push on Jailbreaker. I was hoping others would follow suit to put some pressure on him and force some content before the deadline. 45 til the deadline and only 3 real posts w/ no vote means he's probably gonna get modkilled or warned so it won't matter either way. Still I don't like the idea of letting someone lurk the entire day.
Since Jailbreaker seems out that really only leaves a choice between bkexe and Ana. I don't think ana's flip will tell us anything other than his alignment so I'm going to vote bkexe just to not waste d1.
##Vote BroodKingEXE
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Current votes are...
Anac(4) - Hyaach, Darkfirex5, BroodKingEXE, Crossfire BroodKingEXE(8) - austinmcc, Analectus, dahdum, BioSC, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, Unforgiven_ve, Mufaa Not Voting(1): Jailbreaker
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What does EBWOP mean?
Well, I think it's weird that the #1 reason to not kill me is because I'm entirely useless to both sides, made me giggle.
Also - I'd like to just point out that many people recently have just switched votes, aka Unforgiven, ShiaoPi and Firm. Maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe not.
I'm just really concerned with the way that those guys are swing-voting and bandwagoning so hard.
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Ebwop: ##Unvote ##Vote BroodKingEXE
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Ana, don't use blue text, use green. Blue is mod only. Ebwop means edit by way of post
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Edit by way of post. Since editing is a no-no, that lets you explain where you messed up in an earlier post.
After the end of D1, we'll have 36 hours to look at voting, who swung when, who swung why, and how Brood (if votes stay as they are) flips. We ought to have some good info and leads in there.
You, more than anyone else, are going to have to start looking through it and make some reads off the votes. Because come D2, you're our best candidate so far for a lynch.
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Shit sorry, I used green last time and confused the two - my mistake!!!
Can a mod please edit the blue out please, sorry :/
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Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:29 Anacletus wrote: What does EBWOP mean?
Well, I think it's weird that the #1 reason to not kill me is because I'm entirely useless to both sides, made me giggle.
Also - I'd like to just point out that many people recently have just switched votes, aka Unforgiven, ShiaoPi and Firm. Maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe not.
I'm just really concerned with the way that those guys are swing-voting and bandwagoning so hard.
lol, I havent "switched", you scum! 'cause i never voted for anyone
Also, i read something very fishy, but i will wait to Day2 to say it, it depends on BKE lynch (if it stays that way ofc)
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:29 Anacletus wrote:
Also - I'd like to just point out that many people recently have just switched votes, aka Unforgiven, ShiaoPi and Firm. Maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe not.
I'm just really concerned with the way that those guys are swing-voting and bandwagoning so hard.
If you believe me to be bandwagoning go reread my filter, I actually give a lot of reasons why I waited this long to vote and I was among the first to support austinmcc's case. If that is bandwagoning to you, I would tend even stronger to the idea that you are just a "bad" townie.
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On May 12 2012 07:37 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:29 Anacletus wrote: What does EBWOP mean?
Well, I think it's weird that the #1 reason to not kill me is because I'm entirely useless to both sides, made me giggle.
Also - I'd like to just point out that many people recently have just switched votes, aka Unforgiven, ShiaoPi and Firm. Maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe not.
I'm just really concerned with the way that those guys are swing-voting and bandwagoning so hard. lol, I havent "switched", you scum! 'cause i never voted for anyone Also, i read something very fishy, but i will wait to Day2 to say it, it depends on BKE lynch (if it stays that way ofc)
I didn't mean switched - just swing-voting in the sense that you guys all seem to have come to a similar conclusion within a short period of time for a deciding vote in the game.
I'm really not comfortable with voting BKE :/
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On May 12 2012 07:39 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:29 Anacletus wrote:
Also - I'd like to just point out that many people recently have just switched votes, aka Unforgiven, ShiaoPi and Firm. Maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe not.
I'm just really concerned with the way that those guys are swing-voting and bandwagoning so hard. If you believe me to be bandwagoning go reread my filter, I actually give a lot of reasons why I waited this long to vote and I was among the first to support austinmcc's case. If that is bandwagoning to you, I would tend even stronger to the idea that you are just a "bad" townie.
This may be the case - my words weren't pruned and tendered to be completely accurate - I just noticed a huge influx of people voting for BKE which leads me to the same conclusion and defense of myself. I just don't like it when people all vote for one person in a short period of time - it really just makes me feel like the voting is riddled with mafia votes.
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Ahhhh!! I've gotta cram in what I can.
Mufaa, Anacletus, and dahdum
Let's see. It looks like Mufaa is wagoning. He votes for me to get on the wagon, and be on the right side of things. He voted for Jail to keep suspicion off himself when the vote was close. I'm sure of it.
Same thing with dahdum read his filter. At one point he supported me, then he turned away.
I dug myself into a bad hole I think Shiao and austin are townies for sure they are making good amount of sense in their posts.
Listen to them,but post your own info as to why you vote. Advice: keep your eyes open, don't tunnel like you did with me. If you do really suspect them look at what they are saying. Posting style is only an add-on to being scum, what they say is more important.
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Hmmm... scratch that ana might not be mafia. His last two posts seem townie. He is just very unsure. As for the last scum then... I'm not really sure.
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Unforgiven has been wishy washy with his accusations as well maybe him.
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Watch the last minute vote!!!
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Don't let it sway you! Mafia have been behind the last four in my last game.
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dahdum, mufaa, unforgiven?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Night 1
Vote Count
BroodkingEXE(8): austinmcc, Anacletus, dahdum, BioSC, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, unforgiven_ve, Mufaa
Anacletus(4): Hyach, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, dahdum, Darkfirex5, Anacletus, BioSC, BroodKingEXE, Crossfire99
FirmTofu(0):BroodkingEXE, dahdum, Anacletus
Unforgiven_ve(0): Unforgiven_Ve, Anacletus
Jailbreaker(0): Mufaa
BroodKingEXE, the One-Shot Cop has been lynched!
+ Show Spoiler +You are a One-Shot Cop! Once at night, you may investigate a player in the game by PM'ing both myself and Nova_Terra. You will get results back in the form of Town, Antitown or No Result. If you are roleblocked, you will not lose your one-shot ability.
Please be sure to send all night actions to both myself and Nova_Terra. Night ends in 24 hours, at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Damn it....why didn't you claim?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Gonna post a more in depth post later.
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That, and so many other questions
I know I tunneled him and drove that wagon, but as the day kept going his responses just looked worse and worse. Time for some rereading and a hard look at how votes moved.
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Sorry guys. Dug myself into a terribad hole. Nobody would've believed a claim GG
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The terrible defense didn't exactly help his case. No roleclaim, no nothing. It was all around terrible play by him and I don't blame any of us for voting him.
I'll be free to analyze all the posts in a few hours. Until then, I urge you all to scrutinize the people who jumped on the wagon(including me) with little to no explanation.
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What was the outcome for Jailbreaker?
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Damn it
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[g]Is Jailbreaker getting modkilled?[/g]
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sigh... Is jailbreaker getting modkilled?
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On May 12 2012 08:37 austinmcc wrote: What was the outcome for Jailbreaker? I'd like to know too. Until we know the verdict I think we should assume he was mod killed since there isn't anything to go with on him. If we learn he was just warned or nothing happened he needs a damn good reason for lurking all day. Overall we need the quality of the posts and analysis to improve(myself included). Rereading the thread now with the new info. I'll get my thoughts up in a bit.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Okay, let's see what we can salvage from the mess we have done. First of all I guess part of the blame for this colossal mislynch lies with BroodKingEXE's play, Even a last ditch roleclaim would have been better than the defense he put up, but sadly we cannot reverse what we have done, so let's take a look at the votes which led to his lynch: + Show Spoiler + Vote Count: BroodkingEXE(8): austinmcc, Anacletus, dahdum, BioSC, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, unforgiven_ve, Mufaa
The people who switched were: Anacletus, dahdum, BioSC, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, unforgiven_ve and Mufaa. Basically everyone except austinmcc who started the case. I personally do not blame him for starting the wagon since I agreed on a lot of his views and I also said that the play of BKE was either blue or scum.
Looking at Anacletus next: -his last posts seemed quite townie to me and his vote is reasoned from his side as "better they lynch you than they lynch me", which is okay to me. Yes Anacletus played horribly halfway through the day, but it actually got better, so for now I would put him as "bad" townie.
dahdum's vote is here: + Show Spoiler +
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count? ##unvote ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Might not be enough to swing it, but I feel more comfortable lynchying BKE than Anac at this point.
Looking through his filter, it consists mostly of attacks on BioSC, pretty much the only thing about BKE is the following from his list:
+ Show Spoiler +BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy.
I am unsure what to make of it right now. He seemed to have suspected BKE for a while which could explain his vote on him after austin made his case. Especially since nobody seemed to be inclined to follow up his pressure on BioSC. The only slightly suspicious thing I can make out is in his post just before his vote he says the following:
I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
First he says that he backs off from anacletus, although he only jumped on that bandwagon without much explanation and did not follow it up with pressure besides his vote. It would have made more sense to say "I am backing off from BioSC for now" as he was focused on him. But it can also be argued that it was just a wording issue as his vote was indeed still on anacletus. His reasoning on switching onto BKE is basically sheeping austinmcc's arguments without adding anything else to it. He also does not post again before the lynch. If we take his comment on BKE from his list into consideration it seems a lot less scummy than it might otherwise, so for now just slightly fishy play due to lack of discussion and trying really hard to start a case on BioSC without actually starting one.
Up next we have BioSC: His defense against the (half-)case of dahdum seems reasonable to me, posts well-thought out posts and gives his opinions on the main topics of discussion. He is among the first to react to austinmcc's case but is reluctant to change his vote at first. As soon as he does he seems to have gone offline or into lurkermode. I would consider his vote in the same category as my own, we were simply confident in a read on scum and acted accordingly.
FirmTofu: FirmTofu has quite the lack of activity but when he did defend himself and start a little case against darkfirex5 his posting seemed well-structured and reasonable. His vote however does not tell us much: + Show Spoiler +I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now.
##vote BroodKingEXE
It seems like a "let's just join the bandwagon"-vote. But we need more posts to read more into him. As it stands now I would remain suspicious of him, especially as his posts before switching his vote had 0 content regarding BKE.
My own decision to switch should be pretty transparent if you reread my filter, so I will not repeat myself here.
unforgiven_ve has been terribly inactive for most of day 1 even voting for himself just to make sure that he voted in case he cannot check the thread out before the deadline. He rejoined the discussion as he could spare the time to do so and goes on to clearly state his reasons for switching to BKE after his initial vote on Anacletus (which pretty much all of us did anyway). Does not look like a bandwagonjumper to me.
Mufaa has also been really inactive for most of the time. When he did post however, there was clearly effort and thought behind it. Sadly his amount of posts is still really low. He was there at the end of the Anacletus discussion and just in time for the deadline. He pushed a little against Jailbreaker just before switching but his reasoning seems solid and transparent. Also does not look like a bandwagoner.
Conclusively on the voters of BKE the only outstanding ones are dahdum and FirmTofu. I would really like to hear more from you. Especially about your voting decision or generally more activity.
Besides those participating in the mislynch we have other suspects as well. Jailbreaker has been called out more than often enough so I guess I do not have to add anything against him.
I want to focus a bit on darkfirex5: If you read through his filter, you immediately see that there is simply a lot of weak halfcases he starts against several people, these include: Anacletus (where his vote ends up), BioSC, FirmTofu and dahdum. His posts are few and mostly within the context of the Anacletus discussion, in which he seemingly takes a diverting role with his suspicions. In regards to BKE he writes the following: + Show Spoiler + I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia.
I bolded the part which seemed weird to me. I could agree with his reasoning on not wanting to switch before, but BKE was actually one of the more active players so it seems like a sentence without anything backing it up. Generally speaking he is acting scummy as in non-comittal to his reads/suspicions and inactivity. Keep your eyes on him.
Hyaach's play has steadily improved during the game as in contributing to the discussion and such. He also questions BKE, seemed to be inclined to maybe switch his vote, but he just stopped posting as soon as BKE responded. Kind of weird if you ask me, add to it the confusion he has done in the first haf of day 1 and remains a hard to read player, so fishy play right here.
So who am I keeping on my watchlist for now? jailbreaker, Dahdum, hyaach, FirmTofu, darkfirex5 are currently my top suspicions.
jailbreaker for his ridiculous inactivity, dahdum and Firm for bandwagoning, darkfirex5 for confusing, non-comittal, inactive play and hyaach for confusing play which might be another "bad" townie who slipped at the beginning.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Jailbreaker obviously leaves the circle of suspects if he gets modkilled, but I think that is pretty self-explanatory.
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On May 12 2012 05:35 austinmcc wrote: ...
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances.
I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias?
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What the...how'd this go from a sure fire Anacletus lynch to a BroodKingEXE lynch? and he's cop!? When I popped in for that short amount of time, I thought for sure anacletus was going to die. I'm going to have to read the thread now that I have time and post my thoughts when I'm done.
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On May 12 2012 10:13 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:35 austinmcc wrote: ...
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances. I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias?
It is 3 mafia (actually it can be as little as 2 mafia) because the of the description of the setup is found here. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++ Basically, it looks like a 5/8 chance for 3 mafia and 3/8 chance for 2 mafia.
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On May 12 2012 10:22 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 10:13 Unforgiven_ve wrote:On May 12 2012 05:35 austinmcc wrote: ...
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances. I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias? It is 3 mafia (actually it can be as little as 2 mafia) because the of the description of the setup is found here. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++Basically, it looks like a 5/8 chance for 3 mafia and 3/8 chance for 2 mafia.
well, still i see he has no doubt about being 3 mafias, maybe he slipped some information there?
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On May 12 2012 10:26 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 10:22 Crossfire99 wrote:On May 12 2012 10:13 Unforgiven_ve wrote:On May 12 2012 05:35 austinmcc wrote: ...
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances. I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias? It is 3 mafia (actually it can be as little as 2 mafia) because the of the description of the setup is found here. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++Basically, it looks like a 5/8 chance for 3 mafia and 3/8 chance for 2 mafia. well, still i see he has no doubt about being 3 mafias, maybe he slipped some information there?
Maybe? I don't really think so, though. Honestly, I assume there are 3 also. I first assumed it was 3 because the only other game of mafia I played was this size and there were 3 mafia. Then when I checked that mafia scum page that I linked, I saw that mafia could be either 2 or 3, so I continued to assume 3 as a worst case scenario.
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Go check the past newbie games. 9 man games are 2 or 3 mafia. The 12/13 man games are 3. I only looked back through 5 or so, but nothing broke that pattern. It COULD be 1 off, but the way the setup is derived there are only certain options.
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So - before anyone brings this up I want to address something.
It may appear that I look guilty because I kept insisting that I didn't think BKE was mafia despite voting for him - this wasn't to keep the bandwagon going as I would have voted for anyone to keep me alive. It really should raise suspicion that I would say "no he's innocent" when mafia would know he is innocent yet still vote to keep a clean record. I just thought I'd bring this up before anyone else does.
My personal opinion is that mafia WAS part of the vote for BKE and that we should look carefully at those who did vote. That's my opinion as of right now.
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On May 12 2012 10:00 ShiaoPi wrote:I am unsure what to make of it right now. He seemed to have suspected BKE for a while which could explain his vote on him after austin made his case. Especially since nobody seemed to be inclined to follow up his pressure on BioSC. The only slightly suspicious thing I can make out is in his post just before his vote he says the following: Show nested quote +I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned). First he says that he backs off from anacletus, although he only jumped on that bandwagon without much explanation and did not follow it up with pressure besides his vote. It would have made more sense to say "I am backing off from BioSC for now" as he was focused on him. But it can also be argued that it was just a wording issue as his vote was indeed still on anacletus. His reasoning on switching onto BKE is basically sheeping austinmcc's arguments without adding anything else to it. He also does not post again before the lynch. If we take his comment on BKE from his list into consideration it seems a lot less scummy than it might otherwise, so for now just slightly fishy play due to lack of discussion and trying really hard to start a case on BioSC without actually starting one.
I stand by my vote on BKE, I've been at work so couldn't really go in depth on Anaclectus - but I still get that newbie town vibe.
Bringing up BioSC was just reiterating the top of my list, it's also enjoyable how defensive he gets when mentioned. I'll make a full case when I'm ready. I'm not sold on anyone being confirmed, and we haven't gotten to true analysis stage.
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I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that
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bad play town bad play. I was asleep from my last post to now. Going to read what happened inbetween.
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Well, hindsight is 20/20 I suppose. I will have to echo Shiao's sentiments in that BKExE's posts really didn't help his case. Going to re-read during this night phase and try to find better ammo to use.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 11:11 dahdum wrote: Bringing up BioSC was just reiterating the top of my list, it's also enjoyable how defensive he gets when mentioned. I'll make a full case when I'm ready. I'm not sold on anyone being confirmed, and we haven't gotten to true analysis stage.
*yawn* Another passive aggressive post from Dah against me. Enjoying how defensive I get? It's just as enjoyable to watch you flail about with no real evidence.
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EBWOP: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:55 BroodKingEXE wrote: Ahhhh!! I've gotta cram in what I can.
Mufaa, Anacletus, and dahdum
Let's see. It looks like Mufaa is wagoning. He votes for me to get on the wagon, and be on the right side of things. He voted for Jail to keep suspicion off himself when the vote was close. I'm sure of it.
Same thing with dahdum read his filter. At one point he supported me, then he turned away.
I dug myself into a bad hole I think Shiao and austin are townies for sure they are making good amount of sense in their posts.
Listen to them,but post your own info as to why you vote. Advice: keep your eyes open, don't tunnel like you did with me. If you do really suspect them look at what they are saying. Posting style is only an add-on to being scum, what they say is more important.
This seems like an interesting and good place to start. I actually have to sleep now, I have work in the morning, but will be free all afternoon tomorrow, assuming I can finish my project. Good Night all.
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I will just say this out now.
High on my suspect list : dahdum Anacletus Mufaa ShiaoPi
and checks on Anacletus will be pointless as i've said his been claiming his town so far and could very well be mafia godfather. they appears innocent to checks. Self voted to appear as a last ditch effort to claim townie because the case on him was quite big. Kept insisting he wasn't sure voting BKE was a good choice. Then switch vote to BKE the moment people started pushing and BKE's case seemed lost.
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Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think?
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That's why i decided to post out my suspect list now in case something happens. Its in order of ranking btw.
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On May 12 2012 11:32 Darkfirex5 wrote: I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that
What was "safer" about lynching someone whose play is so bad he's a pariah to everyone? All that would tell me is that the town is capable of identifying basic scum signs. Although it really sucks we just killed a blue, he could have claimed to prevent that. While by linking Brood we gained much more info to base our future lynches off of.
Multiple people (myself included) felt Ana's play had to be town because no mafia would act scummy so brazenly. The only way we gain more from an Ana lynch is if he is metagaming us so hard but based off of reading past newbie games every scenario I've seen like this has resulted in a mislynch. Even if he is odds are he'll be lynched soon unless he improves drastically.
One other thing I'd like to point out to everyone is don't be afraid to pressure people all day through your vote. This isn't majority lynch so you don't have to worry about voting then coming back to a lynch an hour later. It's a nice way to get content from everyone as well.
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Ok I'm going to summarize what I feel happened at the end of the day just to put everything into context. Anacletus has been playing scummy all game, then when everyone starts voting for him he starts flailing around and his posting can be seen to improve a little (I am still suspicious of him and expect him to step up his game to prove he isn't mafia in order to survive a day 2 lynch.) During this time austin puts together a case on Brood which many find convincing (It also caused me to put Brood on my radar). He adds to it and more join and switch votes. Brood defends himself terribly and dies for it. He turns out to be a 1 shot cop.
Now going through the filters nothing really stuck out to me until I ran across these two posts by Mufaa. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
Austin's point about how even if Ana is scum he's lost so much credibility he can't make a push on someone d2. If he doesn't improve his play we might have to take him out later, but right now if we lynch him we won't gain any real info. Everyone has been on to him at some point, so if he flips town we gain almost nothing from this since his posts lack any content. If he flips scum the scum would lose a player, but that honestly might help them if he really is scum and is playing like this.
If we lynch someone else and they flip town, we can see who has been focused on them, who stayed out of the discussion on that person and we at least have some good info to discuss over d2. The odds are just as good of anyone else flipping scum, so I would rather flip someone who would give us info instead of giving scum the option to hide behind the excuse that Ana was such a bad townie, how could everyone not vote for him.
I think BroodKingEXE needs to post some content instead of one liners and just agreeing with people as it comes off scummy, but he isn't my first choice at the moment.
Jailbreaker- Why haven't you posted in the last 3 and a half pages? You commented early on about how much aggression there was but you haven't made a single case, even hinted at having a read, or contributed to the town in any way. Why are you so content to just sit back and watch everyone else debate with the deadline so close?
##Vote Jailbreaker
This isn't a permanent vote. I think Jailbreaker is the best lynch so far. If no one else feels this way, I will swing my vote to BroodKingEXE to get some info from the lynch as I do think his actual content will give us something to compare to everyone else d2 once we see his flip. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:19 Mufaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 06:52 ShiaoPi wrote: Looking at Anacletus' later posts we could take a guess and say he is a townie who played bad. Especially for Mafia he is worthless right now due to his 0 town cred. Regarding BroodkingEXE, I guess I already said that he is either scum or blue. The case pushed by Mufaa is Jailbreaker, who is for sure another player high on the scum list, but there is also too little to make of him and I do not believe it warrants a lynch. Other suspects have posted little so really making a solid case against them is hard, especially within ~1 hour.
So in the end I guess we are still left with the question to lynch either Anacletus or BroodkingExe. I should probably stop rambling now and wait for your thoughts on it. Let me clarify my vote. I wasn't making a concerted push on Jailbreaker. I was hoping others would follow suit to put some pressure on him and force some content before the deadline. 45 til the deadline and only 3 real posts w/ no vote means he's probably gonna get modkilled or warned so it won't matter either way. Still I don't like the idea of letting someone lurk the entire day. Since Jailbreaker seems out that really only leaves a choice between bkexe and Ana. I don't think ana's flip will tell us anything other than his alignment so I'm going to vote bkexe just to not waste d1. ##Vote BroodKingEXE
All he talks about is lynching for information. He doesn't think anac is scum. It also seems that he doesn't think that Brood is scum either. He says explicitly that an anac lynch won't give information but that a Brood lynch will. Now this is the part where it gets weird. At this point in time the vote count was 7-4 in favor of brood with him and Jail yet to vote. Worse case scenario for mufaa would be that jail voted for anac therefore making the voting 7-5. This means that mufaa was the only one left who hadn't voted. to make matters worse 5 people had just switched from anac to brood. They weren't going to switch back. Austin led the case and he wasn't moving. unforgiven switched from himself to brood after reading the cases against brood and his terrible defense. This basically meant that 7 votes on brood were guaranteed and he was going to die (a last minute cop claim might have changed this but I'm not sure because brood probably screwed himself over too much for it to be taken seriously). This meant mufaa ended up putting a meaningless vote on someone he thought was town. Why not push for someone else, someone who you thought was mafia?
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On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? I also want other people's opinions on this. I am kinda on the other side of the issue as you, unforgiven. In my last game a lot of people said no one should post during the night except for like the last 5 min, so mafia couldn't do any night actions based on it. This meant the night was dead and no one discussed anything. I feel that if everyone freely discusses everyone can start to get on the same page and focus on a few people. But I'm not sure if the discussion is worth it if mafia can base night actions off of it. ugh. I just don't know what's best. what are everyone else's thoughts?
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If you were vocal the past day, and have a strong case or hunch on someone, feel free to post it. Chances are if the night is quiet, you'll be the best kill target for mafia If you aren't and have a good case, wait till tomorrow.
Common sense really.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
I do not think we should stop discussion at night. There is no reason to, yes mafia might make adjustments to their plans but so can our blues and it is better to die with night contributions, which might be good information for the survivors, than just silently.
@Crossfire99: You really got some good points on Mufaa, but besides his inactivity and the math behind his vote there are not that much questionable actions/information on him. Mufaa mind sharing you thoughts on your vote?
From the people I have called out there were responses by dahdum: + Show Spoiler +I stand by my vote on BKE, I've been at work so couldn't really go in depth on Anaclectus - but I still get that newbie town vibe.
Bringing up BioSC was just reiterating the top of my list, it's also enjoyable how defensive he gets when mentioned. I'll make a full case when I'm ready. I'm not sold on anyone being confirmed, and we haven't gotten to true analysis stage.
The odd thing is that you have tunnelled him all game long, but still feel that you are not ready to make a case against him. Why focus so much on him then? Maybe just to divert attention from Anacletus, while you still play it safe with voting for him? There is simply an inconsistency between time you spent on BioSC and real committment onto his case.
Darkfirex5 also posted the following: + Show Spoiler +I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that
Which means he is totally ignoring my post about him. Just a general statement of regret and a somehow flawed logic of a "safer bet". I believe we have quite established that Anacletus can easily be lynched later if the need arises. Anyone else up for pressuring him as well?
Hyaach just believes me to be suspicious, I can assure you Hyaach that feeling is mutual.
We probably should discuss BKE's thought as well. His last suspects were dahdum, mufaa and unforgiven.
I suspect dahdum as well and have Mufaa on my radar now. I had at first not suspected unforgiven, but his posts during night make me slightly suspicious of him.
First of this one:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 10:13 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:35 austinmcc wrote: ...
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances. I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias?
He grabs a tidbit of austinmcc about the mafiacount as an attempt maybe to discredit the case and the austin with it. I feel that this "evidence" is sorely lacking as it seems like quite the logical conclusion to say that there are 3 mafia. It could be the beginning of setting up austinmcc for lynch at day based on the mislynch of BKE.
His other post is this one: On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think?
I responded to his thought process at the beginning of this post so let's see what his motivation for it might have been: 1) Genuinly concerned about the possibility of the good reading players being sniped at night. 2) Attempt to quelch night discussion to stop town from gathering information.
If we assume 1), follow the logic of the beginning of my post. We need information and night discussion also helps blue roles to maybe balance out the night actions of scum. There is no reason to stop discusssing!
2) actually makes sense if we consider unforgiven scum. Going through his filter again I saw some inconsistencies.
First of all he has a low postcount. His suspectlist seems to be: Anacletus, Mufaa, jailbreaker, Crossfire99 and me. He does no further action against any of these. Concerning his actions around the BKE lynch his votepost is actually not too shabby: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:12 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I think anacletus did us not good playing the way he has, i want to belive its a mafia "strategy" but its just too risky(¿?), after reading austinmcc and seeing Anacletus doesnt represent a thread anymore ( im sure this will strike us some other way in the future), if BKE flips blue/town as Shaopi says, we are at 0 again thanks to Anacletus. I repeat, i dont like to be guided this easily, but i see a case, i see reasons, and i see lack of response from the accused party. I have made up my mind after readin all posts and seeing RKE lacks of defense after the high pressure...also, this is golden Mufaa, it just raised my "interest" on you. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
.... and i agree 100% on your jailbraker FOS as i stated hours before, pointing a friend maybe?... but i think we should wait a little more. ##Vote BroodKingEXE
But between his last post, which was still in the Anacletus discussion and his first post about BKE are around 6 hours of time. It could naturally be due to timeconstraints so let's take a closer look on his votepost.
There are a lot of general statements and sheeping of reasons. He goes on to stress his disdain for bandwagoning and throws in a suspicion of Mufaa without a good reason (at least to me. We all agree that Anacletus' play was terrible and Mufaa's statement is pretty common sense.). Of course these things are not enough for a case against unforgiven yet, but for now: ##FOS unforgiven_ve
That does not mean that I am not following the others on my shortlist, but I believe we might have to look at him a lot more closely than before.
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Jailbreaker, this is a warning for failing to vote. Failure to do so in the future will earn you a modkill, and a possible 1 game ban depending on the situation. Jailbreaker will not be modkilled today.
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Very good points on unforgiven, Shaopi. I would definitely like to hear his response to your case. The only thing I disagree about your case is the first point about this quote + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? . Honestly, I think he truly believes that statement. In my only other game, people had the same viewpoint as him and I didn't take it as scummy. That is why I asked the question in my last post. I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on talking during the night. Unforgiven is against it. Hyaach says you shouldn't talk unless you were already vocal since you already have a target on your back. Shaopi, you said you are definitely in favor of it. Heck I came out sligtly in favor of it in my last post but completely wishy washy because I just don't know. This is why pm'd the coach, probulous, about it. I want to see what a more experienced player says about it.
Just so this doesn't get lost in my paragraph. unforgiven, what is your response to shaopi's case on you. He brings up good points.
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Fair enough. First of all, my post about not posting any real deep analysis at night is genuine, i dont want a mafia to kill a good "investigator", as i said at beggining, english is not my native language, so trying to make BIG post sometimes its a bit difficult.
You can see im not the only one suspecting of Mufaa, im just not buying that kind of "clean play", no time to play, a couple of long depth analysis post, go back to lurk and come whit another "great" analysis.
The thing about austin was, i didnt saw anywhere where you can get the scum quantity, seeing the description of the game you can see we can get from 2 to 4 (Roles), i just pointed that out, and asked him why, it seemed weird to me he just said there were 3 mafias so casually.
3rd. If you see my filter, you can find that i really think Anacletus was a REALLY BAD town player, of course i had my suspicions on him, but that wasnt enough, whit austin post, things seemed to make a little more sense, and as you said, when i came to post i see this new case and had to make a "pretty fast" choice, seeing as my evidence/suspicions on other players are still not enough.
Now, is this post just to prove me and divert my first suspicions on you? Why you stoped talking and using your BIG list? Now that you have more information i would like to see a Refresh in you list please.
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On May 11 2012 21:02 ShiaoPi wrote:Just read through everything you guys posted, there are a few things which really strike me as noticeable. Hyaach's play remains fishy in my opinion, posts are more useful now, but his instantvote with reasoning following later is still scummy. A connection between him and Anacletus deems unlikely with the vote, but hyaach's play is really confusing. Jailbreaker actually promised to deliver something: Show nested quote +posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8) but still no post yet. Laziness/slow at best but scummy and suspicious at the worst. Darkfirex5 campaigns caution and nothing overhasty in regards to the developing votes. Withholds his vote for this reason: Show nested quote +Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Which is contradictory on his own suspicions on Tofu, Bio and dahdum as they lack evidence as well (every case on day1 lacks solid 100% evidence anyway). Keeps up a slight defense of Anacletus, while voting for him (in the wrong format though). Weird behaviour as Anacletus' play has not improved and remains scummy. Keeping an eye on him.
Sorry for not responding to this^
The reason i like to stay cautious is because when things start happening fast like at the end of day one, we may end up switching the bandwagon and lynching a townie, inthis case the cop. I also think suspicions on people are much different then placing a vote. By me saying im suspicious of people means okay, something doesnt seem right but i need more evidence for me to want to put a vote on them to be lynched. The reason i kept the slight defense on Anacletus was becuase it was still day 1 and its hard to decide on the lynching. I ended up voting on him anyway becuase he seemed more scummy than EXE and i didnt like risking the vote on EXE before more evidence was obtained from/for him to prove he was scummy. So i went with the person who seemed the scummiest at the time, Anacletus.
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On May 12 2012 20:36 ShiaoPi wrote:I do not think we should stop discussion at night. There is no reason to, yes mafia might make adjustments to their plans but so can our blues and it is better to die with night contributions, which might be good information for the survivors, than just silently. @Crossfire99: You really got some good points on Mufaa, but besides his inactivity and the math behind his vote there are not that much questionable actions/information on him. Mufaa mind sharing you thoughts on your vote? From the people I have called out there were responses by dahdum: + Show Spoiler +I stand by my vote on BKE, I've been at work so couldn't really go in depth on Anaclectus - but I still get that newbie town vibe.
Bringing up BioSC was just reiterating the top of my list, it's also enjoyable how defensive he gets when mentioned. I'll make a full case when I'm ready. I'm not sold on anyone being confirmed, and we haven't gotten to true analysis stage. The odd thing is that you have tunnelled him all game long, but still feel that you are not ready to make a case against him. Why focus so much on him then? Maybe just to divert attention from Anacletus, while you still play it safe with voting for him? There is simply an inconsistency between time you spent on BioSC and real committment onto his case. Darkfirex5 also posted the following: + Show Spoiler +I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that Which means he is totally ignoring my post about him. Just a general statement of regret and a somehow flawed logic of a "safer bet". I believe we have quite established that Anacletus can easily be lynched later if the need arises. Anyone else up for pressuring him as well? Hyaach just believes me to be suspicious, I can assure you Hyaach that feeling is mutual. We probably should discuss BKE's thought as well. His last suspects were dahdum, mufaa and unforgiven. I suspect dahdum as well and have Mufaa on my radar now. I had at first not suspected unforgiven, but his posts during night make me slightly suspicious of him. First of this one: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 10:13 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:35 austinmcc wrote: ...
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances. I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias? He grabs a tidbit of austinmcc about the mafiacount as an attempt maybe to discredit the case and the austin with it. I feel that this "evidence" is sorely lacking as it seems like quite the logical conclusion to say that there are 3 mafia. It could be the beginning of setting up austinmcc for lynch at day based on the mislynch of BKE. His other post is this one: Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? I responded to his thought process at the beginning of this post so let's see what his motivation for it might have been: 1) Genuinly concerned about the possibility of the good reading players being sniped at night. 2) Attempt to quelch night discussion to stop town from gathering information. If we assume 1), follow the logic of the beginning of my post. We need information and night discussion also helps blue roles to maybe balance out the night actions of scum. There is no reason to stop discusssing! 2) actually makes sense if we consider unforgiven scum. Going through his filter again I saw some inconsistencies. First of all he has a low postcount. His suspectlist seems to be: Anacletus, Mufaa, jailbreaker, Crossfire99 and me. He does no further action against any of these. Concerning his actions around the BKE lynch his votepost is actually not too shabby: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:12 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I think anacletus did us not good playing the way he has, i want to belive its a mafia "strategy" but its just too risky(¿?), after reading austinmcc and seeing Anacletus doesnt represent a thread anymore ( im sure this will strike us some other way in the future), if BKE flips blue/town as Shaopi says, we are at 0 again thanks to Anacletus. I repeat, i dont like to be guided this easily, but i see a case, i see reasons, and i see lack of response from the accused party. I have made up my mind after readin all posts and seeing RKE lacks of defense after the high pressure...also, this is golden Mufaa, it just raised my "interest" on you. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
.... and i agree 100% on your jailbraker FOS as i stated hours before, pointing a friend maybe?... but i think we should wait a little more. ##Vote BroodKingEXE But between his last post, which was still in the Anacletus discussion and his first post about BKE are around 6 hours of time. It could naturally be due to timeconstraints so let's take a closer look on his votepost. There are a lot of general statements and sheeping of reasons. He goes on to stress his disdain for bandwagoning and throws in a suspicion of Mufaa without a good reason (at least to me. We all agree that Anacletus' play was terrible and Mufaa's statement is pretty common sense.). Of course these things are not enough for a case against unforgiven yet, but for now: ##FOS unforgiven_veThat does not mean that I am not following the others on my shortlist, but I believe we might have to look at him a lot more closely than before.
Ok. I'm posting from my phone so I cant separate the quotes into chunks to make it more readable but I'll respond as best as I can.
First paragraph: This is too situational of a thing to address during the night before we've seen a mafia NK. I'd prefer to stay out of the details til d2 because I don't want to give the mafia too much insight on the pros and cons of night debating. If there is sufficient demand I will post about it. Until day when it's safer to post about it, I'd echo the point about if you've had a good d1 keep posting because you're probably a mafia target. If you aren't hold off until morning unless you have such a solid case from the night info that your death would confirm a person or at least some of the people you're suspicious of as scum.
2nd Paragraph: as far as my Brood vote I was trying to wait for a more solid case to get behind due to my inability to really create a solid case from my phone. I hope people would be suspicious of my lack of cases but like I said before d1 ran the 48h during a time when work really shit on me.
Back to the question of the vote, I was trying to wait for a better case (I didn't think he was blue, but I wasn't expecting a scum flip either) so the vote on Jailbreaker was to try and get people to put some pressure on him before the day ended. Although it didn't get the desired effect of forcing him to post it did get people to remember him instead of just writing his inactivity off as lurking. Once I saw that people weren't going to pressure him into responding and he wasn't going to respond I switched to Brood in case there were last minute changes. I was still checking my phone in case I did need to switch but I still feel a Brood lynch gave us more info.
Obviously this wasn't the best plan and if Jail ends up getting mod killed it was all for naught and I generated a bunch of heat on me for nothing. I have nothing to hide however so I don't mind the pressure on me since it is generating discussion. I think the fact that I didn't sheep a vote to avoid pressure earlier and have been transparent about my thoughts and decisions should speak volumes about my intent.
I'll address the other posts against me when I get a chance and give my thoughts in general.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
On May 13 2012 01:37 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Fair enough. First of all, my post about not posting any real deep analysis at night is genuine, i dont want a mafia to kill a good "investigator", as i said at beggining, english is not my native language, so trying to make BIG post sometimes its a bit difficult. You can see im not the only one suspecting of Mufaa, im just not buying that kind of "clean play", no time to play, a couple of long depth analysis post, go back to lurk and come whit another "great" analysis. The thing about austin was, i didnt saw anywhere where you can get the scum quantity, seeing the description of the game you can see we can get from 2 to 4 ( Roles), i just pointed that out, and asked him why, it seemed weird to me he just said there were 3 mafias so casually. 3rd. If you see my filter, you can find that i really think Anacletus was a REALLY BAD town player, of course i had my suspicions on him, but that wasnt enough, whit austin post, things seemed to make a little more sense, and as you said, when i came to post i see this new case and had to make a "pretty fast" choice, seeing as my evidence/suspicions on other players are still not enough. Now, is this post just to prove me and divert my first suspicions on you? Why you stoped talking and using your BIG list? Now that you have more information i would like to see a Refresh in you list please.
I can understand why you may want to caution against nightposting but as I stated already I believe nightdiscussion to be usefull to us either way since not only scum does action but also blues and if you get hit at night and you still had good thoughts they are lost to town. So better post them now.
Regarding Mufaa, I have him on my radar as well, but my interest on your suspicion of him is, why did you bring him up? Especially since the quote you base that suspicion on seems pretty standard and is pretty much austinmcc's reasoning from before in different wording. Furthermore your votepost begins debating about the decision to vote either Anacletus or BKE, but suddenly you just feel like throwing another candidate out based on a single tidbit? That is the thing which makes me dubious of you.
On to the numbers of scum, I also assumed 3 scum since the beginning of the game and mentioned it on my list, so it is weird that you suddenly call austin out on this issue if you left me out. (although you do suspect me anyway)
As I said in my first "longer" nightpost I was not suspicious of you for your voting process, I did not even mention it in my suspicion-post against you, so why do you bring it up again? This seems really confusing to me.
I probably would have responded to your suspicions if you actually made a solid case based on them. As it stands now you believe me scummy for posting a long analysis, which was intended to start discussion, which it did. I posted that entire list to give everyone my opinions until then and content to discuss. I stopped posting for a simple reason, I went to bed. I know it says "Taiwan" next to me but I am living in Germany and therefore my timezone is CEST, feel free to compare the timestamps of my last post on that day with the next one. If it is still suspicious to you I cannot help you. On the question why I stopped using the list. First reason is that it fulfilled its purpose more discussion material on day 1. Next reason is that I had made myself clear that I was intending to pressure Anacletus first, which I did, until austinmcc made his case, convincing me to apply pressure on BKE. So there was no reason to use it again. I have a list in my head and do my posts with it in mind.
You want to see a refreshed and updated list? Fine, give me some time to look through each and every filter again and I can deliver it to you.
I fail to see how it makes me look suspicious but whatever.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
If it did not became clear enough since I was defending myself in the last paragraph, I still remain suspicious of unforgiven_ve.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'm currently looking for a replacement for Jailbreaker.
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Okay, gonna read over what's been posted today and add some thoughts before deadline, in case of death.
Here's what I can add - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnX9O6cujxVmdFlvZkdqR1g0Qlh3d2dSaENrdW9DblE#gid=0
It's just a rough sketch, but that's the vote movement hour by hour. Yellow cells are changes in votes, and (#) shows the overall order of the changes, with exact times noted below.
There seem to be three phases to the votes. An initial round from 3:00 - 4:30ish, where we first started digging into Brood's answers and discussing things. All the initial movement happened there - Shiao unvotes, Dahdum, Anac, and Bio unvote and vote Brood, and Crossfire votes Anac. As of that point, the vote was 5 for Anac, 4 for Brood, 4 not voting. Lynch was still on Anac.
Then the lynch actually changes. Firm's vote became the deciding vote, tipping things to 5 for Brood, 4 for Anac, 1 for Jailbreaker, 3 not voting.
After that, the remaining 3 Brood votes come from Shiao (who had unvoted earlier but not voted Brood yet), Mufaa (who had voted Jailbreaker), and Unforgiven (who had not voted).
After looking at it a few times, nothing really stands out to me. Firm's vote may have changed the lynch target, but we were rolling in that direction and Shiao had already stated his vote was going to change depending on Brood's defense. Shiao's vote can either be read as perfectly normal (no longer convinced on Anac, waiting to decide) or as kind of scummy (unvoting early, watching to see where to vote later). I don't really read it as scummy.
Mufaa's vote is odd, only because after a few hours of action on one subject, he pops up and just throws a vote in another direction. I don't quite know what to make of it. Things to consider - (1) the entire thread has been focused on one subject for a few hours, he pops in and throws a vote on Jailbreaker; (2) he changes his vote shortly thereafter; (3) his vote came at a critical time (a vote for Brood would have made it 5/5, with Anac still being lynched. Little unsure on how I read this as of right now.
So, make of it what you will. Perhaps it strengthens some cases or weakens others. And maybe it's useful in the future.
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Assorted thoughts:
I'm still suspicious of Anac. More and more people seem to be swinging towards bad townie play. I'd like to see more contributions from you Anac, because at this point I'm still unconvinced. I may have helped save you from a lynch AND given you a story to hide behind.
I'm currently not really suspicious of anyone for "wagoning." When I initially posted on Anac and Brood, I legitimately felt that Anac was quite possibly townie, and Brood looked scummy. I stand by those reads. To the extent that you guys think those reads were sensible, then agreeing with them is NOT scummy play (in my mind). To me, I'm actually more suspicious of those whose votes didn't go Anac --> Brood.
Darkfire. Others have already mentioned this. As votes are coming in on Anac, says it's a "weak bandwagon," with weak reasoning behind it. An hour and a half later, drops his vote on Anac. Now finds Anac scummiest. Then he defends Brood, saying he wants "more posts" from one of the more active players at that point and time (based purely on filter length). At night, we get this: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 11:32 Darkfirex5 wrote: I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that I have no idea what to make of that. He didn't think anac was scum until anac's self-vote, then decided anac was the safest/safer lynch? Complains about no solid evidence on Brood, but again, I think the evidence DID look bad for Brood. And if it didn't, what good evidence was there on Anac? Also, just very, very focused on bandwagoning in general, mentioning it a LOT. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and I still believe that at the end of D1, Brood looked the scummiest.
Don't have enough on Unforgiven to think one way or the other.
Mufaa's jailbreaker vote, as everyone has mentioned, is odd just because it stands out so much. Why vote Jailbreaker at the 11th hour? Almost no chance of getting a lynch without some serious analysis there. At the same time, as scum, why bring up a third vote candidate when you see that votes are starting to swap to a candidate you know is town? Just WIFOM, can't get anything out of that one right now.
Hyaach posted this very early on yesterday + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 01:13 Hyaach wrote: There is basically 8 hours left in this day. We are hard pressed against time. On the BKE suspicions. I actually felt that it is a valid direction. If you filter his post, he does post often but its all fluff. There is never anything constructive to the town from him. You could argue that he pressuring everyone and asking of explanation is town play but it could also be mafia trying to fish out blue roles What say you BKE.
On Anacletus While i hope it is your bad play. You could be the godfather and choose to appear innocent to all investigation. Anacletus, in your opinion who do you think is scum right now? but then never followed up. Never changed his vote. I don't know what to make of that, because a lot happened, Brood responded, votes swapped. So Hyaach. You were suspicious, wanted to see what Brood was going to do. Well, he did things. If you fell asleep, what would you have done with your vote had you been awake? Would it have moved? When? You're one of the only people who missed crunchtime yesterday entirely. Yet your first post back was + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 12:20 Hyaach wrote: bad play town bad play. I was asleep from my last post to now. Going to read what happened inbetween. What? You were suspicious, wanted to see his response, and the general consensus is that his defense was bad. Yet you call town out for bad play. What exactly was bad?
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On May 11 2012 08:02 Unforgiven_ve wrote: 12:00 hours to go.
Seeing as voting is obligatory and i dont know if i can login to post again, im gonna vote for myself just in case. But i will try to check before time ends.
But first my 2 cents, when i see someone posting a LONG "analysis" on day 1 basing his opinions in a couple post, the first thing that comes to my mind is "he's trying too hard", maybe too appear as town leader and stuff, im not necessarily pointing fingers, ShiaoPi post is kinda helpful so far. But im gonna keep an eye on you and a couple more "in-depth analysts"
I loled at Anacletus "I'm not mafia TT", lol, thats so fishy, reverse psychology maybe? You still are my top 1 tho, but i dont like the random bandwagon, i feel we are being guided to you.
Mufaa finally posted, im gonna try to check for his opinion, i think thats all of us?
Seeing as i have no more information about any of you besides the couple posts...Day 2 is gonna be another historie tho
##Vote Unforgiven_ve
i repeat, i will try to change my vote before the time ends, and seeing abstaining is not allowed.
Shaopi, read this part of my post, thats what i meant, its difficult to me to belive in a list whit such litter information.
austin, i clicked you link but it says i need permission to see it.
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EBWOP: *little information
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My list in case i die.
suspicious of mufaa, jailbreaker, crossfire because at the time they hadn't really posted
suspicious of anacletus because of his play
suspicious of shaopi because at the time he posted a big list of names with his opinions but nothing really happened yet so there wasn't much to base that on
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Just got back, Day post coming up immediatly
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 2!
ShiaoPi, Vanilla Townie has been killed!!
In other news, Jailbreaker(Town Aligned) has been modkilled! Jailbreaker was a power role, and given the lameness of having a power role be modkilled in a mini-game, I will redistribute his role to a random townie. If you have any concerns with this, please PM me!
Voting ends in apprx 47 hours, on Monday night at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Link should be public now, my bad.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
.... knew it was coming. GG!
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Damn, what a mafia power play - taking two power roles and a townie
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well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D
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On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote: well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D
I actually think that it may have been a mafia tactic to off someone who was NOT on the right track to make us think exactly what you are saying.
Maybe you're mafia trying to start this trend?
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I agreed that BKE was posting fluff the whole game. But I did not think lynching him was going to be a better target then Ana. He was at least generating content. Ana wasn't. More content means a higher chance of slip up whereas Ana might as well don't post. His fluffs are even more vague than BKEs even after day 2. general directions, bad town play. i aint mafia. But hindsight is 50/50.
Dahdum, I would like to know your thoughts on unforgiven_ and mufaa.
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On May 13 2012 01:57 Mufaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 20:36 ShiaoPi wrote:I do not think we should stop discussion at night. There is no reason to, yes mafia might make adjustments to their plans but so can our blues and it is better to die with night contributions, which might be good information for the survivors, than just silently. @Crossfire99: You really got some good points on Mufaa, but besides his inactivity and the math behind his vote there are not that much questionable actions/information on him. Mufaa mind sharing you thoughts on your vote? From the people I have called out there were responses by dahdum: + Show Spoiler +I stand by my vote on BKE, I've been at work so couldn't really go in depth on Anaclectus - but I still get that newbie town vibe.
Bringing up BioSC was just reiterating the top of my list, it's also enjoyable how defensive he gets when mentioned. I'll make a full case when I'm ready. I'm not sold on anyone being confirmed, and we haven't gotten to true analysis stage. The odd thing is that you have tunnelled him all game long, but still feel that you are not ready to make a case against him. Why focus so much on him then? Maybe just to divert attention from Anacletus, while you still play it safe with voting for him? There is simply an inconsistency between time you spent on BioSC and real committment onto his case. Darkfirex5 also posted the following: + Show Spoiler +I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that Which means he is totally ignoring my post about him. Just a general statement of regret and a somehow flawed logic of a "safer bet". I believe we have quite established that Anacletus can easily be lynched later if the need arises. Anyone else up for pressuring him as well? Hyaach just believes me to be suspicious, I can assure you Hyaach that feeling is mutual. We probably should discuss BKE's thought as well. His last suspects were dahdum, mufaa and unforgiven. I suspect dahdum as well and have Mufaa on my radar now. I had at first not suspected unforgiven, but his posts during night make me slightly suspicious of him. First of this one: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 10:13 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:35 austinmcc wrote: ...
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances. I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias? He grabs a tidbit of austinmcc about the mafiacount as an attempt maybe to discredit the case and the austin with it. I feel that this "evidence" is sorely lacking as it seems like quite the logical conclusion to say that there are 3 mafia. It could be the beginning of setting up austinmcc for lynch at day based on the mislynch of BKE. His other post is this one: On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? I responded to his thought process at the beginning of this post so let's see what his motivation for it might have been: 1) Genuinly concerned about the possibility of the good reading players being sniped at night. 2) Attempt to quelch night discussion to stop town from gathering information. If we assume 1), follow the logic of the beginning of my post. We need information and night discussion also helps blue roles to maybe balance out the night actions of scum. There is no reason to stop discusssing! 2) actually makes sense if we consider unforgiven scum. Going through his filter again I saw some inconsistencies. First of all he has a low postcount. His suspectlist seems to be: Anacletus, Mufaa, jailbreaker, Crossfire99 and me. He does no further action against any of these. Concerning his actions around the BKE lynch his votepost is actually not too shabby: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:12 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I think anacletus did us not good playing the way he has, i want to belive its a mafia "strategy" but its just too risky(¿?), after reading austinmcc and seeing Anacletus doesnt represent a thread anymore ( im sure this will strike us some other way in the future), if BKE flips blue/town as Shaopi says, we are at 0 again thanks to Anacletus. I repeat, i dont like to be guided this easily, but i see a case, i see reasons, and i see lack of response from the accused party. I have made up my mind after readin all posts and seeing RKE lacks of defense after the high pressure...also, this is golden Mufaa, it just raised my "interest" on you. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
.... and i agree 100% on your jailbraker FOS as i stated hours before, pointing a friend maybe?... but i think we should wait a little more. ##Vote BroodKingEXE But between his last post, which was still in the Anacletus discussion and his first post about BKE are around 6 hours of time. It could naturally be due to timeconstraints so let's take a closer look on his votepost. There are a lot of general statements and sheeping of reasons. He goes on to stress his disdain for bandwagoning and throws in a suspicion of Mufaa without a good reason (at least to me. We all agree that Anacletus' play was terrible and Mufaa's statement is pretty common sense.). Of course these things are not enough for a case against unforgiven yet, but for now: ##FOS unforgiven_veThat does not mean that I am not following the others on my shortlist, but I believe we might have to look at him a lot more closely than before. Ok. I'm posting from my phone so I cant separate the quotes into chunks to make it more readable but I'll respond as best as I can. First paragraph: This is too situational of a thing to address during the night before we've seen a mafia NK. I'd prefer to stay out of the details til d2 because I don't want to give the mafia too much insight on the pros and cons of night debating. If there is sufficient demand I will post about it. Until day when it's safer to post about it, I'd echo the point about if you've had a good d1 keep posting because you're probably a mafia target. If you aren't hold off until morning unless you have such a solid case from the night info that your death would confirm a person or at least some of the people you're suspicious of as scum. 2nd Paragraph: as far as my Brood vote I was trying to wait for a more solid case to get behind due to my inability to really create a solid case from my phone. I hope people would be suspicious of my lack of cases but like I said before d1 ran the 48h during a time when work really shit on me. Back to the question of the vote, I was trying to wait for a better case (I didn't think he was blue, but I wasn't expecting a scum flip either) so the vote on Jailbreaker was to try and get people to put some pressure on him before the day ended. Although it didn't get the desired effect of forcing him to post it did get people to remember him instead of just writing his inactivity off as lurking. Once I saw that people weren't going to pressure him into responding and he wasn't going to respond I switched to Brood in case there were last minute changes. I was still checking my phone in case I did need to switch but I still feel a Brood lynch gave us more info. Obviously this wasn't the best plan and if Jail ends up getting mod killed it was all for naught and I generated a bunch of heat on me for nothing. I have nothing to hide however so I don't mind the pressure on me since it is generating discussion. I think the fact that I didn't sheep a vote to avoid pressure earlier and have been transparent about my thoughts and decisions should speak volumes about my intent. I'll address the other posts against me when I get a chance and give my thoughts in general.
Mufaa would u like to answer the 1st paragraph now that it's day 2? i dont want this to get burried because he got killed.
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Hello people. Are we all dead yet? What are everyone's thoughts from last night?
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Wow. Possibly worst case scenario with the afk guy. Not only is he town, he was blue.
Finals have kept me busy, but I'm finished up with them. Now the only thing taking up my time is my SC2 tournament.
Going to read through filters and try to get some discussions going. We have a lot of ground to make up on the scum.
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Okay - so just to finalize my defense I'll be referencing this document austinmcc was awesome enough to post: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnX9O6cujxVmdFlvZkdqR1g0Qlh3d2dSaENrdW9DblE#gid=0
Noticing the initial votes there are 5 people who didn't vote for me: austinmcc, Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Crossfire99, and Unforgiven_ve.
austinmcc: I find his posts extremely town-oriented and the fact the he voted BKE and stuck with it through without bandwagoning seems very credible and I doubt that mafia would be so aggressive in posting, so I find him clean.
Mufaa: I don't like how very early on his posts contained no assertions of mafia. I felt like he was just trying to stay clean and not put any pressure on himself until the very end of the day in which he voted for BKE. I also find his defense of me very fishy in that "Ana is probably just town" sort of thing.
Jailbreaker: Dead/town
Crossfire99: I don't find him suspicious for voting for me and sticking with his vote.
Unforgiven_ve: I am not going to make a judgement at this time on his posting, although he raises my suspicions as well.
My reasoning for bringing up the initial votes is because well - I know that: ShaioPi, Jailbreaker, BKE, and myself aren't mafia. That leaves 9 people left - with 4 being mafia. My synopsis of what happened day 1 was that the mafia began reasoning that I was of no use to the town so they abandoned my band wagon to try and hang someone more useful to the town. So my suspicions are of those who switched votes from me to BKE.
My biggest suspicions lie with BioSC and FirmTofu - I truly believe them to be mafia and would like for one of them to get hung today, and here is my reasoning why:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#190
This post by Tofu not only distracts from any points made against BioSC but further asserts cases made against me and darkfire - and again my logic being that I know that I am not mafia so I can assume that the claims made against myself are baseless as his only points seem to be based off of what darkfire is saying.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#183
BioSC also makes excruciatingly similar posts to Tofu - it's almost as if they are working together!
And my biggest reasoning to vote for them is because of how they both switched from my band wagon vote to vote for BKE after several times trying to seal a vote for me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=17#326
My opinions on fluff posts using "we" in town situations are also pretty revealing with one's alignment.
##Vote BioSC
Here's my vote - I strongly urge you guys to vote with me on this as I truly believe my synopsis to be accurate.
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@Analectus: Who did you get to write this for you? Seriously, this is night and day better than your first day posts. I would be proud of you, but for someone who's neck just came off the chopping block for crappy posts, this sure is an oddity, especially against me. I've given my reasons for shifting my vote, look through my filter for it. If your reason to vote for me is simply for NOT voting for you, then you need to look a bit deeper.
Are you seriously calling me out for squashing this post? + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: )
As I have said, its one of the worst posts to try and make a case off of. I don't even have to look up other posts to contradict it. It contradicts itself!
I really don't have to start a case with you. You've made that for yourself day 1, and I feel like there are others that we can sniff out. Honestly, going from
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 09:22 Anacletus wrote: I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume? to this post above mine should speak volumes. If you have any more meat to this case against me beyond "He voted for me, time to vote for him" I would love to know.
As for whom I would like to call out,
+ Show Spoiler +I'm suspicious of Darkfirex5. He seems to be trying to shift focus away from Anacletus, and this is why I think that. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: ) He's already done this twice in this day, pointing out small flaws and meaningless details in my posts to try and get an argument started against me. My strategy to deal with it was to stamp it out. Just because I'm putting pressure on someone, though, doesn't mean I'm not looking for more reads. There are at least 4 mafia in this game, and town needs to find them all to win.
Darkfire: I still haven't gotten an answer for this post. Mind filling me in on the details? Like how you are trying to shift blame off of one of the scummiest players at the time to someone else on such a triviality?
Unvorgiven_ve: Where the hell have you been, and why is it that the person the mafia hit has you #1 on their list?
DahDum: I've still got my reasons for suspecting you, and having Brood call you out only to not respond for 1.5 days adds to the suspicion.
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EBWOP: Ana: Please use the spoiler function if you are going to quote posts please. It makes the post much easier to read...
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On May 14 2012 10:54 BioSC wrote: EBWOP: Ana: Please use the spoiler function if you are going to quote posts please. It makes the post much easier to read...
I was linking to the exact quote instead of just quoting it in my post to try and make it easier to read and make it not so huge of a post. But spoilering quotes does sound great as well - I will make sure to do that next time, thanks for your input on this.
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On May 14 2012 10:51 BioSC wrote: @Analectus: Who did you get to write this for you? Seriously, this is night and day better than your first day posts. I would be proud of you, but for someone who's neck just came off the chopping block for crappy posts, this sure is an oddity, especially against me. I've given my reasons for shifting my vote, look through my filter for it. If your reason to vote for me is simply for NOT voting for you, then you need to look a bit deeper.
This is very cute.
On May 14 2012 10:51 BioSC wrote: Unvorgiven_ve: Where the hell have you been, and why is it that the person the mafia hit has you #1 on their list?
This is exactly what I am talking about man. You're playing exactly like mafia would. Of course the mafia wouldn't kill someone who was suspecting mafia - they would lynch someone who was pointing fingers at another townie and then after the killing they would bring up "Oh, this person_X thought Person_Y was mafia and Person_X was killed, that must mean Person_Y is mafia too and was killed for the suspicions!"
I'm even more deeply convinced that you are mafia now.
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For someone who claims to be town, you sure do know exactly how the mafia are thinking.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 11:16 Anacletus wrote: This is exactly what I am talking about man. You're playing exactly like mafia would. Of course the mafia wouldn't kill someone who was suspecting mafia - they would lynch someone who was pointing fingers at another townie and then after the killing they would bring up "Oh, this person_X thought Person_Y was mafia and Person_X was killed, that must mean Person_Y is mafia too and was killed for the suspicions!"
I'm even more deeply convinced that you are mafia now.
There are many types of mafia play style. Your theory is based on assumptions, a pretty horrible reason to lynch someone. I can just as easily assume that the scum are killing off people that ARE on the right track, and keeping people like me, aka people who are not yet on the right track and have been brought up multiple times, alive.
Honestly, the people that keep bringing me up are 3. Dahdum, Darkfire, and YOU.
All of you have brought up asinine things in my posting, typing errors, assumptions based on how they believe scum to be playing, ect. I've addressed them all. You got away with bad play day 1, and now you are trying to accuse me of being scum simply because I voted for Brood. Hint: YOU voted for brood. And if I were to ASSUME you are town, why the hell would you bring up someone who switched from you (a town according to you) to someone we believed was acting scummy?
I've bolded my question to you.
##Vote Anacletus
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Sorry,. I was busy this weekend. I'm gonna go through the filters and write up a post.
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On May 14 2012 10:51 BioSC wrote:@Analectus: Who did you get to write this for you? Seriously, this is night and day better than your first day posts. I would be proud of you, but for someone who's neck just came off the chopping block for crappy posts, this sure is an oddity, especially against me. I've given my reasons for shifting my vote, look through my filter for it. If your reason to vote for me is simply for NOT voting for you, then you need to look a bit deeper. Are you seriously calling me out for squashing this post? + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: ) As I have said, its one of the worst posts to try and make a case off of. I don't even have to look up other posts to contradict it. It contradicts itself! I really don't have to start a case with you. You've made that for yourself day 1, and I feel like there are others that we can sniff out. Honestly, going from + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 09:22 Anacletus wrote: I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume? to this post above mine should speak volumes. If you have any more meat to this case against me beyond "He voted for me, time to vote for him" I would love to know. As for whom I would like to call out, + Show Spoiler +I'm suspicious of Darkfirex5. He seems to be trying to shift focus away from Anacletus, and this is why I think that. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well though i still think Anecletus seems the scummiest, but he does make a... point i guess about BioSC id need more proof though than to change my vote to him, ill keep it in mind when reading his posts. I still find this a weak bandwagon forming as i stated before, does anyone want to respond to my post before? (feeling ignored D: ) He's already done this twice in this day, pointing out small flaws and meaningless details in my posts to try and get an argument started against me. My strategy to deal with it was to stamp it out. Just because I'm putting pressure on someone, though, doesn't mean I'm not looking for more reads. There are at least 4 mafia in this game, and town needs to find them all to win. Darkfire: I still haven't gotten an answer for this post. Mind filling me in on the details? Like how you are trying to shift blame off of one of the scummiest players at the time to someone else on such a triviality? Unvorgiven_ve: Where the hell have you been, and why is it that the person the mafia hit has you #1 on their list? DahDum: I've still got my reasons for suspecting you, and having Brood call you out only to not respond for 1.5 days adds to the suspicion.
BioSC filter my last few posts, i havent been talking about you. I've been trying to look into Mufaa and dahdum. I've shifted away from you and i still want Analcetus to be lynched becuase if he pops mafia, it will be easy to track who saved him from the first lynch. In response to you directly, I was on edge with you being mafia but i began thinking you were protown. Again recently I've begun looking at dahdum and Mufaa. Also i was trying to poke at your defensive play, becuase you seem to always respond hyper defensive. I was trying to get more information out of you by knowing that i had an FOS on you. But now, moving ahead i think the biggest target is mufaa dahdun and Anacletus. I'll look to analyze material when i get back from school.
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On May 14 2012 12:06 BioSC wrote:For someone who claims to be town, you sure do know exactly how the mafia are thinking. + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 11:16 Anacletus wrote: This is exactly what I am talking about man. You're playing exactly like mafia would. Of course the mafia wouldn't kill someone who was suspecting mafia - they would lynch someone who was pointing fingers at another townie and then after the killing they would bring up "Oh, this person_X thought Person_Y was mafia and Person_X was killed, that must mean Person_Y is mafia too and was killed for the suspicions!"
I'm even more deeply convinced that you are mafia now.
There are many types of mafia play style. Your theory is based on assumptions, a pretty horrible reason to lynch someone. I can just as easily assume that the scum are killing off people that ARE on the right track, and keeping people like me, aka people who are not yet on the right track and have been brought up multiple times, alive. Honestly, the people that keep bringing me up are 3. Dahdum, Darkfire, and YOU. All of you have brought up asinine things in my posting, typing errors, assumptions based on how they believe scum to be playing, ect. I've addressed them all. You got away with bad play day 1, and now you are trying to accuse me of being scum simply because I voted for Brood. Hint: YOU voted for brood. And if I were to ASSUME you are town, why the hell would you bring up someone who switched from you (a town according to you) to someone we believed was acting scummy?I've bolded my question to you. ##Vote Anacletus
I haven't brought up typing errors in your postings or any asinine things.
I am not voting for you solely because you voted for BKE. I am voting for you because of how you acted so confident in voting for me yet were okay with swing voting so late. I associate voting late with being mafia so you can change votes without being noticed.
I voted for BKE because I felt pressured to vote for someone else to save my life - as mentioned SEVERAL times before I didn't think he was mafia.
You haven't even addressed how you've tried to tie me to darkfire so hard yet at the same time have had posts paralleling FirmTofu.
And of COURSE I bring up the fact that you're trying to denote hanging correlations with who the hanged thought was guilty, it's pretty standard mafia play. I'm convinced that you're mafia and you're voting for me because I think you're mafia? Cute reasoning, my vote isn't a counter to you voting for me on day 1, this is me being convinced that you are mafia.
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Real quick, I'm not done reading, but I just had to quickly point this out. NO ONE seems to be questioning austinmcc at all?
wtf. Look at the facts guys. This guy completely switched the direction of a lynch on a scummy player onto a blue town. Yeah, he's been playing pro-town, but that doesn't negate the fact that his actions have led to a deficit in our numbers!
If Anacletus flips mafia, austinmcc is nearly certainly mafia. Everything points to it. Buddying is already evident in Anacletus' posts but I'm going to read more to find a substantial argument in favor of this.
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This is you bringing up useless things that I've said in an attempt to make me look like scum. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:21 Anacletus wrote:Well, this could turn out interesting Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 08:08 BioSC wrote: Fair enough. I would probably be more suspicious of you if you weren't of me. I wanted to address this because I felt it trivial to discuss when there was more obvious things to consider and talk about.
Especially when you don't even have the quote in context. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 06:43 Darkfirex5 wrote:Lastly: Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:52 BioSC wrote:Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5. On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING. Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too.
Shocking, to state that I don't trust someone in a mafia game.
Again, I've stated my reason for switching votes. Since you can't be bothered looking it up, here it is: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:45 BioSC wrote:Back to the case at hand. I've stated multiple times that I believe Anacletus to be scum, however, with the recent case against BXE, I'm inclined to swap my vote to him. The biggest reason I am to swap my vote over, is this line in Austin's case. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote:
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
Both players have had people call them out on being scummy. However, due to Anac losing all credit with the town, regardless of affiliation, it would be tough for him ,should he be mafia, to get any ball rolling on someone else in town. It's not a forgiveness for bad play, its a delay in action for a scum target appearing more scummy near the end of the day. ## Unvote## Vote BroodKingEXE
Town gained more information from lynching someone acting a bit less scummy, than someone who was playing so awful that they were a detriment no matter what team they were on.
As to you voting for BKE just to save your own skin... Yeah, there is a better way to do that. Make a case against someone who is playing scummy, like we told you about 5 times. The way you were playing yesterday probably meant we weren't going to believe you, but that is what it is. Voting for someone you believe isn't scum? That shouldn't be a town strategy. That is the strategy of scum that got saved by a bad town play.
I haven't tied you to anyone. I've been pointing out your scummy plays. Something YOU have failed to do so far in your case against me.
As to your "Late Vote" Theory, there were 3 swapped votes in the same hour. Mine, Yours, and DahDum's. There were 4 people who switched later, including the hour of lynch time. Honestly, if you ARE town, I don't even think you know why you are making a case against me. If you are mafia, then the obvious reason would be to get a ball rolling on someone who's been vocal in the thread, so to make it "easier" to garner votes towards me.
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Sup people, sorry i've been away. But i was very busy this weekend and Mothers day today didnt helped. i did read some of the post and i have a couple htings to point out, but im so tired, its 1:50am and i just got home. i will be posting tomorrow.
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You're not even refuting or countering any of my points with validations for your actions anymore:
Again, I've stated my reason for switching votes. Since you can't be bothered looking it up, here it is:
I've stated several times that I am not voting for you solely based on your reasoning for changing votes.
Make a case against someone who is playing scummy, like we told you about 5 times.
You're pretty condescending for someone who doesn't address any of the points I've made against them, but instead creates round-about posts that pretty aggressive.
I haven't tied you to anyone.
You've tried to tie me to darkfire several times.
Something YOU have failed to do so far in your case against me.
We can't lynch more than one person per day so I'm not aiming for a complete mafia call out - I am just convinced that you are mafia. I've also said several times that I believe that FirmTofu is mafia as well based on your posting similarities. But I guess you overlooked that.
Honestly, if you ARE town, I don't even think you know why you are making a case against me.
Got me there!
Wait, not really, try reading my last couple of posts.
If you are mafia, then the obvious reason would be to get a ball rolling on someone who's been vocal in the thread, so to make it "easier" to garner votes towards me.
So your defense now is: "I'M NOT MAFIA, HE'S MAFIA"? Let's say the town DOES finally decide to hang me, you don't think I'll end the day with someone like "Okay, once you hang me go after BioSC and FirmTofu"?
I feel like your strategy is pretty near-sighted for being a mafia. Your cute plan of trying to get whoever ShiaoPi was fingering more imaginative.
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Looks like mother's day killed discussion.
As of right now, I've got a few people that I'd love to see post more. Mufaa, Unforgiven, Hyaach, Firm.
I've got weak townie reads on some of you, but there's just not enough there to go on. Please try and get some substantive posting in today. Inactivity is killing us (and i've contributed), so we've got to try and turn this around.
Also interested in hearing more from Dahdum and BioSC. You guys keep calling each other out, but haven't drummed up that much interest from the rest of us it seems. Can either of you really put something good together on the other, why you think they might be scummy beyond just OMGUS? Either one of you could have something there, but I don't find anything in your filters all that convincing.
Asking for more from others doesn't really give you anything from me, so here's what I've got to contribute. Right now my top read, and my vote, are on Darkfire
His D1 filter is some general talk about "bandwagoning" and pronouns. Votes Anac because he seems scummiest, but doesn't really give much of his own read. Just kind of going along with where votes were falling at the time. He pops in during the Anac/Brood discussion only to give the one post that everyone seems to find suspicious: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:17 Darkfirex5 wrote: I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia. Dark, I need to really hear some defense of this statement from you. What made Anac the safest mafia guess? What reasons did you really have for voting him? You repeat this argument after D1, lamenting why nobody listened to you. Well, what should we have listened to? Give us a decent reason you voted Anac and didn't vote Brood. Brood's filter was one of the longer ones in the game at that point, as we've pointed out, and, in fact, Brood's filter during D1 was longer than yours is this entire game so far. If his filter wasn't long enough to give you evidence he was scum, your filter really isn't long enough to convince me that you're town.
The only response you've given to anyone's suspicions on you so far is
The reason i like to stay cautious is because when things start happening fast like at the end of day one, we may end up switching the bandwagon and lynching a townie, inthis case the cop. I also think suspicions on people are much different then placing a vote. By me saying im suspicious of people means okay, something doesnt seem right but i need more evidence for me to want to put a vote on them to be lynched. The reason i kept the slight defense on Anacletus was becuase it was still day 1 and its hard to decide on the lynching. I ended up voting on him anyway becuase he seemed more scummy than EXE and i didnt like risking the vote on EXE before more evidence was obtained from/for him to prove he was scummy. So i went with the person who seemed the scummiest at the time, Anacletus. This feels like really weak reasoning. I maintain that there wasn't much of a case on Anac, and there was a decent case on Brood. I don't know why you had enough evidence on Anac but not on Brood. You've never really clearly explained your choices, either during D1 or in response to people calling you out.
And they have. Here's ShiaoPi: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 10:00 ShiaoPi wrote:I want to focus a bit on darkfirex5: If you read through his filter, you immediately see that there is simply a lot of weak halfcases he starts against several people, these include: Anacletus (where his vote ends up), BioSC, FirmTofu and dahdum. His posts are few and mostly within the context of the Anacletus discussion, in which he seemingly takes a diverting role with his suspicions. In regards to BKE he writes the following: + Show Spoiler + I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia.
I bolded the part which seemed weird to me. I could agree with his reasoning on not wanting to switch before, but BKE was actually one of the more active players so it seems like a sentence without anything backing it up. Generally speaking he is acting scummy as in non-comittal to his reads/suspicions and inactivity. Keep your eyes on him. and + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 20:36 ShiaoPi wrote:Darkfirex5 also posted the following: + Show Spoiler +I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that Which means he is totally ignoring my post about him. Just a general statement of regret and a somehow flawed logic of a "safer bet". I believe we have quite established that Anacletus can easily be lynched later if the need arises. Anyone else up for pressuring him as well?
Here's me: + Show Spoiler +Darkfire. Others have already mentioned this. As votes are coming in on Anac, says it's a "weak bandwagon," with weak reasoning behind it. An hour and a half later, drops his vote on Anac. Now finds Anac scummiest. Then he defends Brood, saying he wants "more posts" from one of the more active players at that point and time (based purely on filter length). At night, we get this: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 11:32 Darkfirex5 wrote: I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that I have no idea what to make of that. He didn't think anac was scum until anac's self-vote, then decided anac was the safest/safer lynch? Complains about no solid evidence on Brood, but again, I think the evidence DID look bad for Brood. And if it didn't, what good evidence was there on Anac? Also, just very, very focused on bandwagoning in general, mentioning it a LOT. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and I still believe that at the end of D1, Brood looked the scummiest.
After ShiaoPi gets killed, here's Darkfire - On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote: well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D Another unhelpful post after an event (Just like his "safer" bet comment after D1). Without any recognition that one of ShiaoPi's main reads was him. Shiao had called out Darkfire twice, I'd chimed in, and Dark still hasn't responded to any of that.
While he recently claims to have been trying to look into Mufaa and Dahdum, there's nothing there. His looking into Mufaa is just quoting a post from Shiao (without ever answering Shiao's questions about himself). I don't see him "looking into" dahdum at all, except after dahdum calls him out on typoing Unforgiven's name into a post instead of Anac. There really just doesn't seem to be anything in his posts at all. There's a lack of unhelpful reads. Multiple UNhelpful posts (after D1 and N1). A complete lack of response to Shiao and my concerns about him. Right now Darkfire, you're my number one scum read, and you get my vote.
##Vote: Darkfirex5
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Now austinmcc will ignore my posts and try to raise suspicion against darkfire because ShiaoPi had suspicions against him. Either you're mafia as well and trying to form a band wagon against darkfire before BioSC can get hunf or you're just a blind townie who would rather vote blindly against darkfire despite the scummier playa being made by BioSC. Change your vote to BioSC.
You're voting for darkfire even though the mafia is OBVIOULY trying to frame him and because he hasn't defended himself? What in the world?
(If you others actually band wagon darkfire I might consider ending my own life on day 3 TT!)
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@ Austin:I called him out on the safer comment too.He ignored me also.Still waiting for a response to that.
Going through the thread and filters now. I'll get a post up soon.
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I am going to type this word one more time this game, and then never again. Bandwagon. Done.
On December 30 2010 01:30 LSB wrote: What is mafia Bandwagoning- This is a town trait too That's right, whipping out old posts from one of the guides in the OP. I voted my strongest read D1, and I stand by it. Brood flipped town, that blows. Going to vote my strongest read D2. That read may change if something convincing comes up, but right now it hasn't. But I don't think all this talk of musical groups and horse-drawn transportation gets us anywhere. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we can't no-lynch this game,
Also, Darkfire HAS the scummiest play to me. I'm not voting because he's "being framed." I'm voting because of the same concerns I had before - I found his contributions during the you/Brood debates to be off. I find his comments after D1 and N1 to be off. I don't see anything of substance in his posts. He recently claims to be looking into Mufaa and dahdum, but again, all he did was quote someone else's post on Mufaa, and I don't see any sort of "looking into" on dahdum.
He hasn't been helpful to town. He hasn't explained why. He's stated that he is doing something, but doesn't deliver.
If you think I'm hopping on board because Darkfire is being "framed," who is framing him? I referenced Shiao's suspicions, yes. But I also referenced my own -- + Show Spoiler +On May 13 2012 07:41 austinmcc wrote:Assorted thoughts: ... Darkfire. Others have already mentioned this. As votes are coming in on Anac, says it's a "weak bandwagon," with weak reasoning behind it. An hour and a half later, drops his vote on Anac. Now finds Anac scummiest. Then he defends Brood, saying he wants "more posts" from one of the more active players at that point and time (based purely on filter length). At night, we get this: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 11:32 Darkfirex5 wrote: I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that I have no idea what to make of that. He didn't think anac was scum until anac's self-vote, then decided anac was the safest/safer lynch? Complains about no solid evidence on Brood, but again, I think the evidence DID look bad for Brood. And if it didn't, what good evidence was there on Anac? Also, just very, very focused on bandwagoning in general, mentioning it a LOT. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and I still believe that at the end of D1, Brood looked the scummiest. -- from before Shiao died. If you're really going to present a theory that Shiao's reads were on townies and he was killed so that we would be suspicious of his reads (mafia "framing" someone), then you're going to have to give me some reason to believe that. I was suspicious of Darkfire's play BEFORE Shiao died. I've given reasons why I find Darkfire's posts suspicious, completely independent of anyone else's reasons and going back prior to Shiao's death.
Me, I read Shiao's death as eliminating one of the more vocal townies who was presenting a lot of reads. I was actually a little suspicious of his play before he flipped, but his flip tells me that he was actually just a vocal townie trying to push reads and get discussion going. Until I've got any evidence otherwise, I'm going to assume that he was taken out for being a townie who was participating and trying to make progress, not for any convoluted master plan on the part of the mafia team.
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We've had very little activity with mother's day/weekend.
FirmTofu, Unforgiven, Mufaa, you guys have all said you're looking through filters, reading up. Any thoughts?
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Ok, here we go.
Strongest reads for me so far are Dahdum and Darkfire.
Dahdum + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu Dahdum's Early Game posts stood out to me. First he votes Tofu off of his early post to break the ice and a reason BKE prodivded. No content of his own really yet.
Later on he says that he knows FirmTofu's style better than anyone else "We were in the last game together so I also have a better sense of his style than I do of the rest of you." To me this comes off a lot like Dahdum is either trying to establish his authority on FirmTofu so he can make a push on him later (Dahdum possibly scum in this case) or defend him (Possible scum buddies).
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 05:16 dahdum wrote: I'm at work so can't respond fully, but Tofu's response is reasonable and in line with what I expect from him as Town. So I am jumping on this new wagon, because reasons. ##Unvote
##Vote Anacletus On May 11 2012 06:58 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 05:56 Jailbreaker wrote: :D dahdum, why are you searching for a bandwagon and state your reasons as "because." Can you give a little more insight plz?
Actually I believe I said because reasons. If we never get any wagons going, we never pressure mafia into having to take a vote/stance. I'm at work so I can't write long explanations, but since I 100% want somebody to die today, I'm fine voting for whomever the current scummiest is. No-lynch is not an option.
These two quotes are what originally got me checking into Dahdum. First he votes for Anac saying "because reasons." He might as well post "because I feel like it" at that point. Then when he is called out on stating his reasoning as "because" he says "I said because reasons." There is absolutely no benefit for town by playing like this. Then he does explain his reasons for wanting bandwagons in general, butJailbreaker was asking about his reasons for the Anac bandwagon.
His only other content is a bandwagon jump to BKE and a very weak case on BioSC.
Darkfirex5 My suspicions of him aren't as strong, but I still have a few things I'm curious about.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. He's suspicious of BioSC, who says town/they instead of us/we. While this is something of note while building a case it isn't enough to build a case on its own. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 06:43 Darkfirex5 wrote:sorry im a student so i have school, currently i think this is a weak bandwagon forming on Anacletus. While his defense is weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. Yet the first person to begin the voting on Anacletus was Hyaach, his reasoning seemed just as weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm The start of this "bandwagon" is begining to form off of this, though Anacletus did have a poor response which made him more suspicious the voting on him lacks solid reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 03:56 FirmTofu wrote:What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it. On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets. There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly. Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start. On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing. See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble. Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead. Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!"When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia. ##vote:Anacletus I bolded the part im talking about (didnt cut out any as to take something out of context^). Another thing now is that Tofu anounces the role of being a townie, and the reason (supposidly) why Anacletus targeted him was because he knew he was town (because he was mafia)? Now im questioning then why did he target you (tofu) only because you were town. Why initiate like that on a post that seemed insignifigant. I'm building suspicion on the reasoning for starting this bandwagon on Anacletus. Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Lastly: Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:52 BioSC wrote:Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5. On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING. Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too.
Now take this massive post Darkfire "contributed." The first 3/4 of it are on how this is a weak bandwagon case on Anac, with the last 1/4 on a wording dispute. From there he posts mostly fluff until this gem.
On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote: well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D
How do you know ShiaoPi was on to something? Austin and Anac both offered easy suggestions to why the mafia voted the way they did other than that they wanted to silence the person was closest to discovering them (Silencing vocal townies to stiffle discussion,attempting to frame the people on his list, etc...). Why should we believe this was just a careless post and not a slip?
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EBWOP: Meant to preview notpost,please disregard the darkfire portion above and use this one.
Darkfirex5 My suspicions of him aren't as strong, but I still have a few things I'm curious about.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. He's suspicious of BioSC, who says town/they instead of us/we. While this is something of note while building a case it isn't enough to build a case on its own. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 06:43 Darkfirex5 wrote:sorry im a student so i have school, currently i think this is a weak bandwagon forming on Anacletus. While his defense is weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. Yet the first person to begin the voting on Anacletus was Hyaach, his reasoning seemed just as weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm The start of this "bandwagon" is begining to form off of this, though Anacletus did have a poor response which made him more suspicious the voting on him lacks solid reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 03:56 FirmTofu wrote:What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it. On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets. There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly. Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start. On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing. See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble. Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead. Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!"When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia. ##vote:Anacletus I bolded the part im talking about (didnt cut out any as to take something out of context^). Another thing now is that Tofu anounces the role of being a townie, and the reason (supposidly) why Anacletus targeted him was because he knew he was town (because he was mafia)? Now im questioning then why did he target you (tofu) only because you were town. Why initiate like that on a post that seemed insignifigant. I'm building suspicion on the reasoning for starting this bandwagon on Anacletus. Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Lastly: Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:52 BioSC wrote:Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5. On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING. Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too.
Now take this massive post Darkfire "contributed." The first 3/4 of it are on how this is a weak bandwagon case on Anac, with the last 1/4 on a wording dispute. This would be ok with me, except that he voted for Anac and never switched off of him. From there he posts mostly fluff until this gem.
On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote: well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D
How do you know ShiaoPi was on to something? Austin and Anac both offered easy suggestions to why the mafia voted the way they did other than that they wanted to silence the person was closest to discovering them (Silencing vocal townies to stiffle discussion,attempting to frame the people on his list, etc...). Why should we believe this was just a careless post and not a slip?
The others I'm less suspicious of but I do have some questions for them I want to ask:
BioSC- All game you've been defending yourself from reads people put on you, but your defense is always "I'm not doing mafia things, your read is invalid" or something along those lines. I'd be a lot more likely to believe you if you had contributed to finding scum at all instead of just defending yourself. Who do you think is most likely to be scum and what do you have to back it up?
Hyaach- I've noticed you voted for Anac without much of an explination and you tunneled him through day1. Since then you've said you're suspicious of people but instead of providing cases, you never follow up or ask other people for their opinions on the matter. Somewhat suspicious to me and I'll be watching this.
Crossfire- I'm not sure what I think of him yet. His reason for not switching to BKE was pretty solid but since then his only case has been on me for not leading a lynch on a townie when there were 2hrs left in d1. Would like to see some more content.
FirmTofu- You jumped on the BKE lynch after austinmcc's post where he says "I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now."
Now his most recent post d2 is questioning austinmcc for the mislynch and implying Anac and austinmcc are buddying without any real proof. I don't believe this, but it makes me wonder if you're mafia and supported the BKE lynch because you knew he was town and saw an easy d2 lynch in austin/Anac because you knew that bringing up austin's case would put pressure on austin for the mislynch.
Like I said, I have nothing concrete to back that up, but it does make me suspicious of you.
austinmcc- Even though he led the mislynch on BKE, his reasonings were sound and his posts have all been solid so far. I'll be watching but you seem town to me.
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EBWOP2: Sorry, using a laptop that has had water spilt on the keyboard numerous times, keeps bugging out.
Unforgiven_ve- No real read yet, he has barely any content. Would like to see more posts from him.
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Mother's day weekend rough to keep up with this.
@Mufaa - You're right about me considering a case against Tofu. If you look at his play style this game versus last game, it's very different. Read his filter in the last newbie game when he was a blue role and compare it to this one, he doesn't sound Town to me at all now.
As for the mafia's kill, makes perfect sense. That guy was contributing a lot and spending a lot of time doing analysis, so a strong kill for mafia.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 20:49 Anacletus wrote:You're not even refuting or countering any of my points with validations for your actions anymore: Yes, I am. Did you even read my last post? Show nested quote +Again, I've stated my reason for switching votes. Since you can't be bothered looking it up, here it is: I've stated several times that I am not voting for you solely based on your reasoning for changing votes. I would like to know where I wrote that your only reason for voting was me changing. I addressed each of your bad points, including this one. Show nested quote + Make a case against someone who is playing scummy, like we told you about 5 times. You're pretty condescending for someone who doesn't address any of the points I've made against them, but instead creates round-about posts that pretty aggressive. And YOU apparently lack the ability to read my posts, or just read what you want to see and ignore all the rest of my points. Care to answer my question back from before? I'm still waiting. You've tried to tie me to darkfire several times. Link Please. The only one linking yourself to Dark is YOU, in your case against me. We can't lynch more than one person per day so I'm not aiming for a complete mafia call out - I am just convinced that you are mafia. I've also said several times that I believe that FirmTofu is mafia as well based on your posting similarities. But I guess you overlooked that. Show nested quote +Honestly, if you ARE town, I don't even think you know why you are making a case against me. Got me there! Wait, not really, try reading my last couple of posts. I have. I still believe this Show nested quote +If you are mafia, then the obvious reason would be to get a ball rolling on someone who's been vocal in the thread, so to make it "easier" to garner votes towards me. So your defense now is: "I'M NOT MAFIA, HE'S MAFIA"? Let's say the town DOES finally decide to hang me, you don't think I'll end the day with someone like "Okay, once you hang me go after BioSC and FirmTofu"? You can say whatever you want, if you flip as scummy as you are playing, it won't matter what you say. I feel like your strategy is pretty near-sighted for being a mafia. Your cute plan of trying to get whoever ShiaoPi was fingering more imaginative. Now who's being condescending/aggressive? Adding cute to your points doesn't make them any better. I believe ShiaoPi far more than I believe you, because HE flipped town. YOU on the other hand have been scummy since min. one.
Your posts aren't worth addressing anymore. Your case is bad and your responses in this post confirm to me you don't actually have any idea about why you are coming after me.
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On May 15 2012 03:00 Mufaa wrote: BioSC- All game you've been defending yourself from reads people put on you, but your defense is always "I'm not doing mafia things, your read is invalid" or something along those lines. I'd be a lot more likely to believe you if you had contributed to finding scum at all instead of just defending yourself. Who do you think is most likely to be scum and what do you have to back it up?
I have contributed. Have you not noticed the little back and forth me and ana have been doing today?
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dahdum and BioSC, before today you guys were calling each other out and suspicious of each other. Do you each still believe the other scummy? Why/why not?
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On May 15 2012 03:57 BioSC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 20:49 Anacletus wrote:You're not even refuting or countering any of my points with validations for your actions anymore: Yes, I am. Did you even read my last post? Show nested quote +Again, I've stated my reason for switching votes. Since you can't be bothered looking it up, here it is: I've stated several times that I am not voting for you solely based on your reasoning for changing votes. I would like to know where I wrote that your only reason for voting was me changing. I addressed each of your bad points, including this one. Show nested quote + Make a case against someone who is playing scummy, like we told you about 5 times. You're pretty condescending for someone who doesn't address any of the points I've made against them, but instead creates round-about posts that pretty aggressive. And YOU apparently lack the ability to read my posts, or just read what you want to see and ignore all the rest of my points. Care to answer my question back from before? I'm still waiting. You've tried to tie me to darkfire several times. Link Please. The only one linking yourself to Dark is YOU, in your case against me. We can't lynch more than one person per day so I'm not aiming for a complete mafia call out - I am just convinced that you are mafia. I've also said several times that I believe that FirmTofu is mafia as well based on your posting similarities. But I guess you overlooked that. Show nested quote +Honestly, if you ARE town, I don't even think you know why you are making a case against me. Got me there! Wait, not really, try reading my last couple of posts. I have. I still believe this Show nested quote +If you are mafia, then the obvious reason would be to get a ball rolling on someone who's been vocal in the thread, so to make it "easier" to garner votes towards me. So your defense now is: "I'M NOT MAFIA, HE'S MAFIA"? Let's say the town DOES finally decide to hang me, you don't think I'll end the day with someone like "Okay, once you hang me go after BioSC and FirmTofu"? You can say whatever you want, if you flip as scummy as you are playing, it won't matter what you say. I feel like your strategy is pretty near-sighted for being a mafia. Your cute plan of trying to get whoever ShiaoPi was fingering more imaginative. Now who's being condescending/aggressive? Adding cute to your points doesn't make them any better. I believe ShiaoPi far more than I believe you, because HE flipped town. YOU on the other hand have been scummy since min. one. Your posts aren't worth addressing anymore. Your case is bad and your responses in this post confirm to me you don't actually have any idea about why you are coming after me.
Right. My case is bad and THAT'S why you won't address the condemning information.
You voted for dark for not defending himself, and now you won't now. The irony is astounding.
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On May 15 2012 04:21 austinmcc wrote: dahdum and BioSC, before today you guys were calling each other out and suspicious of each other. Do you each still believe the other scummy? Why/why not?
BioSC is highly defensive and started out quite passive, I find the heavy concern with how he's perceived quite suspicious.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I meant to include this in the OP, but there are 3 mafia in the game. Vote count coming shortly.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 2 Current Vote Count
BioSC(1): Anacletus
Anacletus(1): BioSC
Darkfirex5(1): austinmcc
Not yet voting: Mufaa, Dahdum, Darkfirex5, Crossfire99, FirmTofu, Unforgiven_VE, Hyaach
Voting ends in 2 hours, at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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at Mufaa, that was more to start conversation. But recently from my posts i've moved off of BioSC because as you said, there isnt a case with "missuse of pronouns." I've been trying to analyze his posts but other than extreme defense im not finding much more that's being scummy. -->My current thoughts is that either BioSC or Anacletus is mafia, or there is a chance they are townies fighting one another, i dont know what to make of it atm. with the second post about ShiaoPi was more as a friendly post to him because he got killed. I don't know how to convince you analytically on that, but it was more of an insignifigant post to ShiaoPi as he was leaving.
at austinmcc, the post about me, the reson i was so cautious and unable to make such strong posts was because of the day one, just trying to figure things out. At the moment, i think that BioSC, Anacletus, you and me are twonie. I'm townie and the fact that Anacletus stuck up for me, well now i know he is townie as well. And if anyone wants to say that we both are mafia, well i still insisted on the Anacletus vote to get him killed, even when i could of just switched to EXE and not suffered any problem. We currently have lurkers who are leting us tear one another up.with the current votes in I we put townies more at risk. And now for the more contradictory part, we can try to vote a lurker (which i prefer), or i may need to place my vote on BioSC or you. What credability do i have now? well i doubt you would give me any. But if Anacletus somewhat defended me he's townie. So that leaves me to believe that either you or BioSC because you two arent voting on the same person which should mean you arent affiliated BioSC and austin i'd suggest re analzing becuase one of you is town and BioSC if you are townie dont waste your vote on Anacletus. <-- he isnt mafia. And well now, even if i get lynched at the end of this, now one of you three is mafia. The two townies should realize it and vote off the third party.
I still dont like the lack of other posts only checking in and saying mother's day was an inconvinence. (well it was but still). Now whichever of us gets some votes stacked, mafia can say oh i liked these posts cause "blagh" and then get more townie killed
--> I'm hoping all of us are townie, because well i've sided more with knowing Anacletus is townie.
-->If i didnt answer a question just bold it and i will get on that right away. --> id still like for mufaa to answer the question ShiaoPi posted before.
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##Vote Darkfirex5 I need to ask dahdum some more questions but at least he's responded and a lynch on dark is more likely.
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again Mufaa fails to answer the question posed upon him from before. He doesnt give a reason after my post for lynching me. He comes in after austincc makes the first vote on me. He stated he had little suspicion on me, but had curiosity on my posts. After the vote on me from austincc, he votes which enables him to not take full blame when i pop town. This is what i was waiting from you. YOu check in waiting for people to start votes, go with the flow and wont start a vote untill there is some confromation from a vocal person from town. If you come up austincc re-evaluate same with you ancletus because i know your townie.
##Vote Mufaa
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additionally what made you confirm on placing your vote on me mufaa, id like to see your analysis on that^
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I think discussing anything n1 is stupid for a couple of reasons.
1) the good dayposters are already out there with their reads and are targets already. In a mini there are probably 2-3 people max in this range. Since we don't know if there is a medic d1 by having fewer outspoken people (no one posts reads at night) makes the blues night jobs much easier.
2) the more people that post, the more confusing their NK will become. When everyone posts it allows the mafia to choose their type of kill way easier. If only 2-3 people have good reads it's much harder to frame someone compared to if everyone has reads.
Obviously we want everyone to have reads, but if we go into the night without them I don't think we should post them until morning (unless your post can help confirm someone)
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Dark, I can give you some credibility if I get sufficient reasoning behind the two main scummy plays I'm reading off you. One is the vote on Anac over Brood
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:17 Darkfirex5 wrote: I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia.
I still really want a specific answer there, and others have mentioned this as well. What made you so sure Anac was scum, specifically? What led you to that conclusion, kept you there over Brood, etc.
The other issue is where you respond to BioSC: On May 14 2012 12:16 Darkfirex5 wrote: BioSC filter my last few posts, i havent been talking about you. I've been trying to look into Mufaa and dahdum. You said you weren't getting anything off Mufaa, but what about dahdum? IF you're town, and IF you're going to be the lynch today, we need as much from you as we can get. What did you really look at from each, what reads did you get?
I'm absolutely in agreement on the lurkers, and it may be my newbishness, but I'm having a hard time lynching someone who is lurking or semi-lurking over someone where I've got a few posts to analyze and they seem off.
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No surprise from me here I think.
##Vote BioSC
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Sweet Jesus. That's quite the wall there, FirmTofu.
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On May 15 2012 07:02 Darkfirex5 wrote: again Mufaa fails to answer the question posed upon him from before. He doesnt give a reason after my post for lynching me. He comes in after austincc makes the first vote on me. He stated he had little suspicion on me, but had curiosity on my posts. After the vote on me from austincc, he votes which enables him to not take full blame when i pop town. This is what i was waiting from you. YOu check in waiting for people to start votes, go with the flow and wont start a vote untill there is some confromation from a vocal person from town. If you come up austincc re-evaluate same with you ancletus because i know your townie.
##Vote Mufaa
I voted from my phone at work, your post came in as mine was being typed. I answered your question and I voted for you because although I would like to vote dahdum I made a case and no one else seemed to like it as much. And you dodged half of my case on you, so I can hardly see why I should change my vote.
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That took a fuckton of time...
ANYWAY, that being said, here's a preliminary list of who *disliked* who on day 1. These suspect lists are based on who contributed to a full-fledged discussion when accusing these people, as opposed to just voting them. We can compare this to changed perceptions on day 2, if we have enough time.
Main ACCUSATIONS for each player(Excluding bandwagon votes): FirmTofu- Anacletus and BroodKingEXE Darkfirex5- BioSC dahdum- FirmTofu(Later retracted), BioSC Mufaa- Jailbreaker BroodKingEXE- FirmTofu(Later retracted), Anacletus, Hyaach-Anacletus austinmcc- Anacletus and BroodKingEXE Unforgiven_ve- FirmTofu(Later retracted) BioSC-Darkfirex5, dahdum (Anyone who accuses him) Crossfire99-Anacletus ShiaoPi-Anacletus, BroodKingEXE
Note: A single minded focus is more akin to town play because town generally are more likely to tunnel vision with limited information.
Please let me know if I'm missing anything.
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On May 15 2012 07:02 Darkfirex5 wrote: again Mufaa fails to answer the question posed upon him from before. He doesnt give a reason after my post for lynching me. He comes in after austincc makes the first vote on me. He stated he had little suspicion on me, but had curiosity on my posts. After the vote on me from austincc, he votes which enables him to not take full blame when i pop town. This is what i was waiting from you. YOu check in waiting for people to start votes, go with the flow and wont start a vote untill there is some confromation from a vocal person from town. If you come up austincc re-evaluate same with you ancletus because i know your townie.
##Vote Mufaa
I voted from my phone at work, your post came in as mine was being typed. I answered your question and I voted for you because although I would like to vote dahdum I made a case and no one else seemed to like it as much. And you dodged half of my case on you, so I can hardly see why I should change my vote now.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 2 Current Vote Count
BioSC (2): Anacletus, dahdum
Darkfirex5 (2): austinmcc, Mufaa
Anacletus (1): BioSC
Mufaa (1): Darkfirex5
Not yet voting: Crossfire99, FirmTofu, Unforgiven_VE, Hyaach
Voting ends in half an hour, at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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On May 15 2012 07:24 Mufaa wrote: I voted for you because although I would like to vote dahdum I made a case and no one else seemed to like it as much. And you dodged half of my case on you, so I can hardly see why I should change my vote.
Gah. We've got 2 players with 2 votes. Right now 2 votes to lynch. No real reason to be gaming things given that we don't need majority to lynch. Vote your biggest read.
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With the vote changes of day 2, I believe the most likely mafia TEAM seems consists of dahdum and darkfire. Why?
The buddying is fairly obvious when they choose to attack BioSC. However, this is probably wishful thinking. dahdum has accused darkfire before, but very lightly. He has a lot more posts agreeing with him than disagreeing.
If we make the assumption that mafia are more careful than that, we can sub out dahdum for one of these potential (lurk) candidates:
-Unforgiven -Crossfire -Hyaach
We can also almost make the statement that if darkfire is mafia, then BioSC and austin probably are NOT. This lynch would provide us information on two others right off the bat, and probably dahdum as well. Considering we have little time left, I am going to have to place my vote in support of this lynch.
##Vote Darkfirex5
A dahdum lynch would also be decent because it would provide us information on Darkfire and possibly Mufaa, but I do not think it is as beneficial to us as of right now.
*crosses fingers*
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darkfirex5, dahdum, Anacletus vs. BioSC, Mufaa, austin?
These seem to be the core alliances, but I can't seem to figure out which side is the right side. I'm going to stick with my vote for now. Sorry for all the grammatical mistakes in my previous post, I am trying to rush to fit everything in before the deadline.
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I'll respond to that after the lynch I guess. We certainly need to start drawing inferences about who the scum team as a whole might be, but I dunno about those setups.
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On May 15 2012 06:41 Darkfirex5 wrote: At the moment, i think that BioSC, Anacletus, you and me are twonie. I'm townie and the fact that Anacletus stuck up for me, well now i know he is townie as well. This is pretty much the nail in the coffin for me. As soon as he starts getting pressured, he backs off of BioSC in order to save his own skin. If you remember back to Day 1, this guy was all out attacking BioSC and now suddenly switches his stance into him being town. I call bullshit.
On May 15 2012 07:47 austinmcc wrote: I'll respond to that after the lynch I guess. We certainly need to start drawing inferences about who the scum team as a whole might be, but I dunno about those setups. Yeah, I just rushed through that. Give me some time and I can analyze it better. Maybe during night?
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i like how you said that i didnt answer your full question trying to discredit me, when i said mufaa that oh bold your question incase i didnt answer it. I had to look over a lot to answer questions so i may have over looked it. Using that as your excuse as the reason to continue your vote on me makes you look scummy. Still have that question you want to ask,bold it so i cant miss it. Also you find another way to dodge the question from before --> the one from ShiaoPi Lastly if your reasoning was because i didnt fully respond to your question thats been discredited because i said bold stuff if i missed it
at austincc- i said i will look into them but not much was posted most recently so it was hard to find a case until now. I believe i've made my point on Mufaa, but for dahdum i think he is protown becuase of his defense on Anacletus. (unless im being played hard) because Anacletus defended me i think (almost know) he is a townie. Dahdum also mentioned at a protective stance at Anacletus not wanting to commit to the vote on him.
On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
With this i now find Dahdum townie as well because though he had suspicions on BioSC and Anacletus. I havent been able to clear BioSC though which is why i dont think that dahdum is more likely to be mafia. I think that dahdum as well is pro town more so. WIth Mufaa though he has waited twice now to join a majority vote. Well shit now, i think mufaa is townie as well, debatably now because of the defense on Anacletus. Huh well now that leaves BioSC and lurkers....
##Unvote ##Vote BioSC im hoping i gave you some insight austincc. I'm going to remain a FOS on Mufaa, but because i have this basis on Anacletus being town Mufaa seems more town pro. I'd like to know for sure though somehow because this remains on the basis that Anacletus is a townie. Meh shit i feel like i dodged your question in a way, but now rereading more and more im geting new ideas and now i feel like you will think that im voting BioSC because there is 2 votes on him. Ask it again if you feel like i didnt answer you "correctly" its hard now that i have this different insight rereading some of Mufaa's older posts during day 1
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Woot, 7 votes and 3/3 on two candidates. Still missing 3 votes with 3 minutes to go.
Reading now Dark
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when i pop townie cause thats the way it seems, other townies look at dahdum, mufaa and Anacletus, they to me seem the most pro town. Austin is iffy look into him. I was pressuring BioSC because i thought hey why not get things roling because this could pop up as something. Welp meh i dont have a case against you Tofu but you've been chilling back for a while reading these posts <-- dont like
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Unforgiven seriously? Just going to pop in, vote yourself, not contribute at all?
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I've had no time these past 2 days, so I have no idea whether any of the arguments put forward are good. I'm voting for myself becaus ei dont want to misvote.
##Vote Crossfire99
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Unforgiven, please vote Darkfire. This is our only shot. I believe AT LEAST 2/3 votes on BioSC are mafia.
This is all or nothing.
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I have to split again. I'll post more when i have time.
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EBWOP: Unforgiven AND Crossfire, seriously?
I wanted to call you out all day Crossfire but figured I'd see if you didn't post and got modkilled. Now I feel dumb for not pushing you at all.
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You have got to be shitting me...
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Ack, guess it's deadline. Firm, right now I think Dark is the lynch at 3/3 with him being the first to hit 3. I don't love it after a final post, but hopefully that's just a mind game to get someone to switch a vote last minute.
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now Tofu has the suspicion he really wants me dead, at this point matters less becuse well ow you know he's scummy. I'm onto mafia and even if i pop town when i die you will know who to target. It's over for you mafia, also austincc any response?
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My only response now is me drowning my sorrows at not trying to policy lynch lurkers in hopes that they'd get modkilled.
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well i did suggest it kinda, but i really thought i was on to something. If i die i blame you gl hf
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Again - my suspicions that FirmTofu and BioSC are mafia.
I also think that austinmcc is the third mafia.
But I'm sure of BioSC - so we'll start with him, no?
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On May 15 2012 08:02 Darkfirex5 wrote: now Tofu has the suspicion he really wants me dead, at this point matters less becuse well ow you know he's scummy. I'm onto mafia and even if i pop town when i die you will know who to target. It's over for you mafia, also austincc any response?
Consider this, Day 1 you accused BioSC of mafia with a single-minded focus then Day 2 randomly decided he was town. Then when you were about to be voted to death, you decided to lynch him anyway. How is that not scummy yo?
If anything, your death should be attributed solely to you because you've made a very bad case for yourself.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Night 2
Darkfirex5 (3): austinmcc, Mufaa, FirmTofu
BioSC (3): Anacletus, dahdum, Darkfirex5
Anacletus (1): BioSC
Crossfire99 (1): Crossfire99
Unforgiven_VE (1): Unforgiven_VE
Mufaa (0): Darkfirex5
Not voting: Hyaach
Darkfirex5, Vanilla Townie, has been lynched!
Hyaach is officially warned for failure to vote
Please send all night actions to both myself and Nova_Terra. Deadline is tomorrow night at 11:00 GMT (+00:00)
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well guys gl hf i died (sadface) geting hanged is not a fun way to go D:
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What the actual f*** town?
There are 3 remaining mafia. You realize that means that all 3 of them could have logged on FORTY EIGHT HOURS AGO, voted for one person with zero explanation, nothing at all, and then never logged on again during D2. That person would have been lynched. With 10 bodies in this game, we already let mafia control a lynch if they wanted to. That's absolutely ridiculous.
If you don't have time for this, I'm asking you to replace out or ask to be modkilled. If you're mafia and lurking, great job there. If you're town and lurking, you are actively hurting town and ruining this game for the rest of town. If you don't have time to read, don't kill this game, because you can't be enjoying this.
Sorry dark.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
In case it wasn't clear, the tiebreaker is whichever player has the most votes first. In this case it was Darkfirex5.
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[g]right right[/g]. But with 3 mafia remaining and 3 votes being needed to win, they could have popped in at the start of D2, voted for one person, and had that person be the first to 3.
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My mistake. My prime targets now are austinmcc/BioSC, Mufaa, and Crossfire99.
I think Unforgiven is simply indecisive and that Anacletus and dahdum are playing very deceitfully if they are mafia.
Another possibility arises with austinmcc and Anacletus as the pair of mafia because austin did essentially save Anacletus from a day 1 lynch. However, I think this is a bit more far-fetched.
If you think I am mafia for my voting patterns, I do not blame you. I urge you to read my reasoning before coming to that conclusion.
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dammit! i couldnt make it in time! i posted that from a friends home while coming home!! just to not get modkilled! i was super busy today!
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Honestly I don't even know what to expect. 2 people come in and vote for themselves. 1 doesn't even vote. Plus we've had a townie modkilled for inactivity. I still don't know how people can sign up for a game and not actually do anything. We have a lot of work ahead of us and not a lot of time left.
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I did essentially save Anac, and still have no clue if that was a good play or a mistake on my part. He DID look bad townie to me, but now we seem to be basing a lot off of who voted for him or swapped or defended him or didn't, and I still don't really know what to make of him.
I'm going to walk away for some of this evening, because right now all I want to do is policy lynch. I will try and get back on and look into your thoughts on scumteams. Is your main train of thought right now a me/Bio + mufaa + crossfire team? Or is it me + bio + mufaa (from before the deadline)? Or me + anac + someone? Or...not me.
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On May 15 2012 08:19 austinmcc wrote:
I'm going to walk away for some of this evening, because right now all I want to do is policy lynch. I will try and get back on and look into your thoughts on scumteams. Is your main train of thought right now a me/Bio + mufaa + crossfire team? Or is it me + bio + mufaa (from before the deadline)? Or me + anac + someone? Or...not me.
I feel like you are prodding me so I can help you decide whether or not I would be a good kill target for you. Just a thought. My main train of thought right now is completely jumbled because I can't stand the fact that so many people were afk (me included). It's very hard for me to read the situation because of all the possibilities at hand, none of which are provable or disprovable. All I can do is draw connections between players and how they act, which is extremely limiting and hard to wrap my head around.
I know there is probably a gem in these posts just waiting to be found, so I guess my best bet is to go through the filters again to see who is most likely to be mafia.
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On May 15 2012 08:08 austinmcc wrote: What the actual f*** town?
There are 3 remaining mafia. You realize that means that all 3 of them could have logged on FORTY EIGHT HOURS AGO, voted for one person with zero explanation, nothing at all, and then never logged on again during D2. That person would have been lynched. With 10 bodies in this game, we already let mafia control a lynch if they wanted to. That's absolutely ridiculous.
If you don't have time for this, I'm asking you to replace out or ask to be modkilled. If you're mafia and lurking, great job there. If you're town and lurking, you are actively hurting town and ruining this game for the rest of town. If you don't have time to read, don't kill this game, because you can't be enjoying this.
Sorry dark.
Maybe I misread the votes...but wasn't it you, Tofu, and Mufaa who lynched the vanilla townie? WTF indeed.
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Ah no worries. I'll respond to all cases then, and come up with some teamreads of my own.
I'm prodding you recently posted stuff and I've agreed with a lot of your analysis. We've both voted to lynch townies each day, but I think on similar reasoning.
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I fucking told you guys to lynch BioSC. Now do it.
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On May 15 2012 08:40 Anacletus wrote: I fucking told you guys to lynch BioSC. Now do it.
Calm down. There were obviously enough people who thought your case wasn't strong enough to vote for me.
What is more concerning is the fact that there have been lurkers now for 2 voting cycles straight.
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wow, i did not see the votes were that low!!
im really sorry guys but i was out of my house today and could not get online, i was rushing to home and made that vote on myself to avoid getting modkilled, and this weekend was jus crazy.
Now, i just read some FoS on me, since i saw Shaopi's death i was thinking i was gonna be lynched today, im sure mafia was expecting my lynching to get more room of play, it wasnt that way but sadly another townie was lynched, i see some of you are saying you have "weak reads" on me, thats because i have not much to add besides my "reads", wich you can read on my filter, its pretty basic, yes Tofu, im very indecisive for the exact same reasons, that now, 2 townies are dead. Lists, "deep analysis" whit not much to base on (¿?), suddenly going super agressive on a player.
My suspicions on Anacletus RAISED big time, but he's not my main read tho. In case i get killed (but i doubt it after this) my FoS goes to austincc.
I feel he is actually playing whit the town's "mind", he (both times) just goes super agressive on someone and gets lynched right away, he's using his good redaction skills to throw analysis at the end of both days. I will quote nothing, im gonna stick whit this, its pretty obvious for me now.
About anacletus im beliving now he's just a bad player who got lucky two times. Watch his filter and see the big difference on his posting now.
##FoS austincc and Anacletus
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i need to read more camly all the post to get a 3rd suspect. Btw, now you see, op just said there were 3 mafias. another thing i was suspicious of austin
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On May 15 2012 08:52 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i need to read more camly all the post to get a 3rd suspect. Btw, now you see, op just said there were 3 mafias. another thing i was suspicious of austin
It's BioSC, FirmTofu, and austincc....TT
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are you suggeting that Bio and Tofu are higer in your list than austin?
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On May 15 2012 09:04 Unforgiven_ve wrote: are you suggeting that Bio and Tofu are higer in your list than austin?
I'm suggesting that they are all mafia.
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I'm not mafia, so Anacletus is wrong in at least part of his guess. I can see why he would think austin and BioSC are mafia though. I have similar suspicions
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That one full day of inactivity caused me to misjudge day left. I thought there was 24 hour left still.
And activity only picked up in the last 12 hours. GMT+8 sleep time.
My bad
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Everyone seems pretty suspicious of me, and rightfully so. Frankly I thought I'd be a lynch candidate D2 after pushing Brood so hard.
I tunneled Brood and I pushed him on everyone, and he flipped town. D2 I voted Darkfire, but I didn't push it on anyone nearly as hard. I wasn't trying to gain votes on him, actually thought he was scummy but not pushing it like I did with Brood. If you think I'm scummy, read over what I wrote about each. I'm not the only one who voted them, although I may have been the most vocal. But if you agree with my reasoning, if you also thought they looked scummy, then don't find me scummy because I ended up being in the majority of two townie lynches. Heck, maybe we can just call the person I vote for tomorrow confirmed town.
I'm still just frustrated and so not gonna post anything major, but right now I will say that my most confident read is of FirmTofu as town (which of course now means he's probably scum). His votes have been on the same people as mine have, and we seem to have similar reasoning. I'm town, so I assume he is as well.
If you think I'm scummy because of my votes or because I've been so vocal/wrong, there may not be much I can do to change your mind. If you think I'm scummy for some other reason, let me know. Got N2 at least to clear up anything, and I'll try to be active.
Specifically for Unforgiven, I started collecting links to past minis and newbie games to show you that 12/13-man games are 3 mafia under C9++. However, some of the older newbie games are 13/14-man with 4 scum. If I'd seen those, I wouldn't have posted anything about "3 mafia." I assumed 3 because I've followed the last few minis and seen mainly 3-man scum teams, and I thought that the 9-man games were 2 scum and 12/13-man games were 3 scum. If it looks like a scumslip, so be it.
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On May 15 2012 09:18 FirmTofu wrote: I'm not mafia, so Anacletus is wrong in at least part of his guess. Seems legit. I'm buying this.
@FirmTofu - I noticed your play style this game is much more guarded than in the last game, and you were less active in this one early on (busy in QT?). When rereading your filters from both, it seems to me you are trying to be pro-town without really putting yourself out in front. Last game you also made a suspicion list (most to least) yourself as Town, yet flip out when I do the same in this game. Care to comment on this change in gameplay?
That accusation list must have taken a lot of effort, and looks pro-town, but how does it really help us? What did you unearth from that? Would you vote for BioSC?
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On May 15 2012 08:49 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 08:40 Anacletus wrote: I fucking told you guys to lynch BioSC. Now do it. Calm down. There were obviously enough people who thought your case wasn't strong enough to vote for me. What is more concerning is the fact that there have been lurkers now for 2 voting cycles straight.
@BioSC - What is your read on FirmTofu? I'm convinced one or both of you is mafia, so I would find your thoughts interesting.
Also, other than that who would you vote for right now?
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Some quick reads:
Firmtofu - + Show Spoiler +I get a town read. Relatively vocal, and has had similar votes and reasoning behind them as I have. Commence the headgames, but I also get a townie feeling from this post - + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 12:18 FirmTofu wrote: Real quick, I'm not done reading, but I just had to quickly point this out. NO ONE seems to be questioning austinmcc at all?
wtf. Look at the facts guys. This guy completely switched the direction of a lynch on a scummy player onto a blue town. Yeah, he's been playing pro-town, but that doesn't negate the fact that his actions have led to a deficit in our numbers!
If Anacletus flips mafia, austinmcc is nearly certainly mafia. Everything points to it. Buddying is already evident in Anacletus' posts but I'm going to read more to find a substantial argument in favor of this. . Either that's townie logic, or it's mafia setting up to make me a lynch target.
Mufaa - + Show Spoiler +Mild town read. Wasn't very vocal early on, but didn't find Anac scummy in the early game. IF anac is scum, then this looks quite bad for mufaa. IF he's not, then this gives me a town vibe. D2 posted some decent stuff with reads on darkfire and dahdum - + Show Spoiler +On May 15 2012 02:34 Mufaa wrote:Ok, here we go. Strongest reads for me so far are Dahdum and Darkfire. Dahdum+ Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu Dahdum's Early Game posts stood out to me. First he votes Tofu off of his early post to break the ice and a reason BKE prodivded. No content of his own really yet. Later on he says that he knows FirmTofu's style better than anyone else "We were in the last game together so I also have a better sense of his style than I do of the rest of you." To me this comes off a lot like Dahdum is either trying to establish his authority on FirmTofu so he can make a push on him later (Dahdum possibly scum in this case) or defend him (Possible scum buddies). + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 05:16 dahdum wrote: I'm at work so can't respond fully, but Tofu's response is reasonable and in line with what I expect from him as Town. So I am jumping on this new wagon, because reasons. ##Unvote
##Vote Anacletus On May 11 2012 06:58 dahdum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 05:56 Jailbreaker wrote: :D dahdum, why are you searching for a bandwagon and state your reasons as "because." Can you give a little more insight plz?
Actually I believe I said because reasons. If we never get any wagons going, we never pressure mafia into having to take a vote/stance. I'm at work so I can't write long explanations, but since I 100% want somebody to die today, I'm fine voting for whomever the current scummiest is. No-lynch is not an option. These two quotes are what originally got me checking into Dahdum. First he votes for Anac saying " because reasons." He might as well post "because I feel like it" at that point. Then when he is called out on stating his reasoning as "because" he says "I said because reasons." There is absolutely no benefit for town by playing like this. Then he does explain his reasons for wanting bandwagons in general, butJailbreaker was asking about his reasons for the Anac bandwagon. His only other content is a bandwagon jump to BKE and a very weak case on BioSC. Darkfirex5My suspicions of him aren't as strong, but I still have a few things I'm curious about. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. He's suspicious of BioSC, who says town/they instead of us/we. While this is something of note while building a case it isn't enough to build a case on its own. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 06:43 Darkfirex5 wrote:sorry im a student so i have school, currently i think this is a weak bandwagon forming on Anacletus. While his defense is weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. Yet the first person to begin the voting on Anacletus was Hyaach, his reasoning seemed just as weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm The start of this "bandwagon" is begining to form off of this, though Anacletus did have a poor response which made him more suspicious the voting on him lacks solid reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 03:56 FirmTofu wrote:What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it. On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets. There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly. Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start. On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing. See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble. Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead. Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!"When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia. ##vote:Anacletus I bolded the part im talking about (didnt cut out any as to take something out of context^). Another thing now is that Tofu anounces the role of being a townie, and the reason (supposidly) why Anacletus targeted him was because he knew he was town (because he was mafia)? Now im questioning then why did he target you (tofu) only because you were town. Why initiate like that on a post that seemed insignifigant. I'm building suspicion on the reasoning for starting this bandwagon on Anacletus. Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Lastly: Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:52 BioSC wrote:Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5. On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING. Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too. Now take this massive post Darkfire "contributed." The first 3/4 of it are on how this is a weak bandwagon case on Anac, with the last 1/4 on a wording dispute. From there he posts mostly fluff until this gem. Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote: well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D How do you know ShiaoPi was on to something? Austin and Anac both offered easy suggestions to why the mafia voted the way they did other than that they wanted to silence the person was closest to discovering them (Silencing vocal townies to stiffle discussion,attempting to frame the people on his list, etc...). Why should we believe this was just a careless post and not a slip? . I still don't love his vote on Jailbreaker D1, and, just like with Tofu, I read his votes as good town play, but with the possibility that I just have terrible, terrible reads and Tofu/Mufaa look kind of suspicious. Still hoping for the former.
Dahdum - + Show Spoiler + Looks pretty scummy to me. 3 different votes day 1: + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote: I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu , + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 05:16 dahdum wrote: I'm at work so can't respond fully, but Tofu's response is reasonable and in line with what I expect from him as Town. So I am jumping on this new wagon, because reasons. ##Unvote
##Vote Anacletus , + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:33 dahdum wrote: ##unvote ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Might not be enough to swing it, but I feel more comfortable lynchying BKE than Anac at this point. . Little to no reasoning on the first two, the third has none at all. The rest of his posts don't add anything really. He lists his reads at one point, but it's just a short write-up on each person without much analysis ( + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 11:45 dahdum wrote: Here are my reads and yes I know this is partially a rehash of events.
--Scummy List - -- Most To Least
Analectus - No point summarizing so far, chief suspect. Actually votes for himself after attempting to throw his vote away without reason, and says "I never said I was protown". Not acting like town.
Hyaach - Bandwagons, no pressure at all. Urges caution. Scummy.
BioSC - Highly defensive, focuses on Analectus.
Darkfirex5 - Keeps cautioning against bandwagons and voting too early, sounds like scum trying to defend Analectus. Last post says he's voting against Unforgiven but then botches the vote for Analectus?
Crossfire99 - Obsessed with Analectus, doesn't discuss anyone else.
BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy.
Jailbreaker - Worried about people pressuring too much, defensive, not contributing reads, promises something soon.
Mufaa - Very few posts but cites RL reason and reiterates basic strategy. Jumps on Analectus for technicality, contributes no reads on anyone else.
Austinmcc - Rightly pressures Analectus for his "i don't have much to add" vote, continues to lay one the pressure but never calls him out as scum or gives any real reads/analysis.
FirmTofu - Defends the bandwagon well, placing reasonable pressure on Analectus. Compared to last game he seems more thoughtful however, so I'm suspicious of that.
ShiaoPi - Jumps on Hyaach, lots of analysis. The huge post is somewhat indicative of a scum play, but I concur with his picks (Analectus/Hyaach) so far. ). So D1 I don't get much of a townie vibe from him, and it looks like he's posting a lot of fluff and votes without reasoning. He's got that weird little spat with BioSC, and continues that into D2, voting for him. I need to take a harder look at that exchange, because I feel like we can get some information out of their chatter. After D1, we don't have much from him. No real contributions on N1 or D2, gone most of D2. Posts just enough to look active compared to the actual lurking that was going on during D2. As far as posters who have been "active," he gives me one of the strongest scum vibes at the moment.
Crossfire - + Show Spoiler +So far, Crossfire doesn't really seem to have done ANY scumhunting. D1 he discusses the votes on firm, the votes on anac, the Brood/Anac votes, but never really says anything about anyone beyond those. Sticking solely to discussion of the major targets could be a move to blend in, not provide anything substantive. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 14:10 Crossfire99 wrote: Ok I'm going to summarize what I feel happened at the end of the day just to put everything into context
WALL OF TEXT WENT HERE
. Summaries of what happened aren't really helpful, they don't give us anything new. Also, to the extent anyone reads through a summary, they're NOT looking at the actual posts and discussion itself for information, which feels a little scummy to me. Skip to N1, what do we get from Crossfire? + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 14:55 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? I also want other people's opinions on this. I am kinda on the other side of the issue as you, unforgiven. In my last game a lot of people said no one should post during the night except for like the last 5 min, so mafia couldn't do any night actions based on it. This meant the night was dead and no one discussed anything. I feel that if everyone freely discusses everyone can start to get on the same page and focus on a few people. But I'm not sure if the discussion is worth it if mafia can base night actions off of it. ugh. I just don't know what's best. what are everyone else's thoughts? and + Show Spoiler +On May 13 2012 01:21 Crossfire99 wrote:Very good points on unforgiven, Shaopi. I would definitely like to hear his response to your case. The only thing I disagree about your case is the first point about this quote + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? . Honestly, I think he truly believes that statement. In my only other game, people had the same viewpoint as him and I didn't take it as scummy. That is why I asked the question in my last post. I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on talking during the night. Unforgiven is against it. Hyaach says you shouldn't talk unless you were already vocal since you already have a target on your back. Shaopi, you said you are definitely in favor of it. Heck I came out sligtly in favor of it in my last post but completely wishy washy because I just don't know. This is why pm'd the coach, probulous, about it. I want to see what a more experienced player says about it. Just so this doesn't get lost in my paragraph. unforgiven, what is your response to shaopi's case on you. He brings up good points. . Neither of which feels helpful. In fact, those responses actively feel scummy to me. He gives a little of his own opinions, but mainly seems to be fishing out info and discussion from others. Sure, getting more info could be a town trait, but when he's not really providing anything himself, I read this as him trying to get discussion out of folks N1 to pick a good mafia target. He wants everyone's opinions on whether to post at night, wants active night discussion, then notes that he was "wishy washy", pmed a coach, and ... and nothing. IF he wants to bring up that he sought coaching on this point, why not put it into action? Why not tell us what prob thought? Unless prob told him "don't post at all," then he either (a) didn't actually PM anyone or (b) didn't DO anything about what prob said. That feels fishy, especially with him seeking info from others. Then D2...lurk lurk. Lurk lurk lurk. Posts, leaves, done. I'm quite suspicious of cross at this point. He's done ZERO scumhunting, he fished for info N1, and he lurked. Probably my top scumread right now.
Unforgiven - + Show Spoiler +All I have is a gut slightly townie read. The lurking hurts us bad, and I reeeeeally don't like it, but for some reason his concern over me thinking there were 3 mafia members strikes me as townie. I could interpret it two ways: (1) trying to scumhunt and believing that to be a slip on my part; or (2) mafia going "HOW DOES HE KNOW OUR NUMBERS?" My gut impression is the first, and he's not a scum candidate for me right at this second. Currently I just have a very, very slightly town read on him and feel like others are just scummier.
Hyaach - + Show Spoiler +There's not much there. The timezone difference accounts for some of that, because it looks like he's asleep pre-deadline time. But the lurking D2 doesn't help his case. You've participated some when you've been around, please continue and get some content out during N2 or D3. If you don't, it's anti-town enough that I kind of have to read you as scummy. But not enough to really go on at this point.
Bio and Anac are going to take me a little more work, but I wanted to go ahead and post this. I guess right now I'm looking at a scumteam of Dahdum/Crossfire/+1, which might come out of Bio or Anac. I need to look more at BioSC and Dahdum's little spat with each other, perhaps they're both intentionally making weak cases on the other to fill the thread, and if one got lynched the other could try to turn that into some town cred. Will read over Anac, I'm not as confident in my newbie town read as I was D1, but I want to find some actual reasons why and look harder.
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Looks like I won't be back before the deadline, so I'll just parrot what everyone else is saying and note that I'm still suspicious of Anac, despite arguing against a vote on him D1.
What really sticks out to me is this post -
On May 11 2012 00:09 Anacletus wrote: I've played mafia before. That being said nothing that I say is guaranteed so playing one playstyle will probably let them metagame us. I was only throwing out my 2 cents. Also, maybe I'm metagaming knowing mafia will read this.
The hole goes deeper.
I alluded to it D1, + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 00:39 austinmcc wrote:Anacletus, why, specifically, did you vote Tofu? All you've said is: In your original vote. But you didn't tell us what you found suspicious. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:
I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean. Say you think this, why vote Tofu? He posted once, 40 minutes into the game, and hasn't been active. That's not vocal in chat. His activity so far this game doesn't fit the pattern that you believe to be scummy. Town's job isn't to care about what gameplan mafia may or may not have. Our job is to hunt scum. To me, your vote on Tofu, especially as it runs against your own reasoning, looks scummy or newbie townish. Yet you say you've played games elsewhere before. , but I didn't pressure that point. I still don't like him as a lynch candidate over others, but the fact that he came out and said he was new keeps me unsure about absolutely branding him as just playing poorly as town early on.
I don't know whether to slot Anac in as the third mafia, whether to think maybe dahdum and BioSC were just looking to make weak cases on each other and gain town cred if one was lynched and flipped scum, or whether there's another third mafia member out there. Relatively confident in those other two reads, and I can't really adopt some plan of "Assume everyone I read as scum is town," because that's just too confusing.
I'll post more when I get enough free time and a computer, but it will be after the deadline. If nothing else, should I be the nightkill, hopefully some of this will be helpful.
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On May 16 2012 06:05 austinmcc wrote:Looks like I won't be back before the deadline, so I'll just parrot what everyone else is saying and note that I'm still suspicious of Anac, despite arguing against a vote on him D1. What really sticks out to me is this post - Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 00:09 Anacletus wrote: I've played mafia before. That being said nothing that I say is guaranteed so playing one playstyle will probably let them metagame us. I was only throwing out my 2 cents. Also, maybe I'm metagaming knowing mafia will read this.
The hole goes deeper. I alluded to it D1, + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 00:39 austinmcc wrote:Anacletus, why, specifically, did you vote Tofu? All you've said is: In your original vote. But you didn't tell us what you found suspicious. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:
I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean. Say you think this, why vote Tofu? He posted once, 40 minutes into the game, and hasn't been active. That's not vocal in chat. His activity so far this game doesn't fit the pattern that you believe to be scummy. Town's job isn't to care about what gameplan mafia may or may not have. Our job is to hunt scum. To me, your vote on Tofu, especially as it runs against your own reasoning, looks scummy or newbie townish. Yet you say you've played games elsewhere before. , but I didn't pressure that point. I still don't like him as a lynch candidate over others, but the fact that he came out and said he was new keeps me unsure about absolutely branding him as just playing poorly as town early on. I don't know whether to slot Anac in as the third mafia, whether to think maybe dahdum and BioSC were just looking to make weak cases on each other and gain town cred if one was lynched and flipped scum, or whether there's another third mafia member out there. Relatively confident in those other two reads, and I can't really adopt some plan of "Assume everyone I read as scum is town," because that's just too confusing. I'll post more when I get enough free time and a computer, but it will be after the deadline. If nothing else, should I be the nightkill, hopefully some of this will be helpful.
I think that the day 1 votes should be enough proof that I'm not mafia considering I was nearly killed.
Vote BioSC - FirmTofu - austinmcc
mafia!
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Ok I apologize for not doing anything during day2 but life happened. If anyone wants a more detailed explantion than that just ask and I'll explaini how I've had zero time the last few days. Note: I don't have a smartphone, so I can't post on the go or any of that stuff fyi.
So I guess I'll start by defending myself from Austin's accusation of being mafia. Here is his argument + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2012 03:42 austinmcc wrote:Some quick reads: -snipped- Crossfire - + Show Spoiler +So far, Crossfire doesn't really seem to have done ANY scumhunting. D1 he discusses the votes on firm, the votes on anac, the Brood/Anac votes, but never really says anything about anyone beyond those. Sticking solely to discussion of the major targets could be a move to blend in, not provide anything substantive. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 14:10 Crossfire99 wrote: Ok I'm going to summarize what I feel happened at the end of the day just to put everything into context
WALL OF TEXT WENT HERE
. Summaries of what happened aren't really helpful, they don't give us anything new. Also, to the extent anyone reads through a summary, they're NOT looking at the actual posts and discussion itself for information, which feels a little scummy to me. Skip to N1, what do we get from Crossfire? + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 14:55 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? I also want other people's opinions on this. I am kinda on the other side of the issue as you, unforgiven. In my last game a lot of people said no one should post during the night except for like the last 5 min, so mafia couldn't do any night actions based on it. This meant the night was dead and no one discussed anything. I feel that if everyone freely discusses everyone can start to get on the same page and focus on a few people. But I'm not sure if the discussion is worth it if mafia can base night actions off of it. ugh. I just don't know what's best. what are everyone else's thoughts? and + Show Spoiler +On May 13 2012 01:21 Crossfire99 wrote:Very good points on unforgiven, Shaopi. I would definitely like to hear his response to your case. The only thing I disagree about your case is the first point about this quote + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? . Honestly, I think he truly believes that statement. In my only other game, people had the same viewpoint as him and I didn't take it as scummy. That is why I asked the question in my last post. I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on talking during the night. Unforgiven is against it. Hyaach says you shouldn't talk unless you were already vocal since you already have a target on your back. Shaopi, you said you are definitely in favor of it. Heck I came out sligtly in favor of it in my last post but completely wishy washy because I just don't know. This is why pm'd the coach, probulous, about it. I want to see what a more experienced player says about it. Just so this doesn't get lost in my paragraph. unforgiven, what is your response to shaopi's case on you. He brings up good points. . Neither of which feels helpful. In fact, those responses actively feel scummy to me. He gives a little of his own opinions, but mainly seems to be fishing out info and discussion from others. Sure, getting more info could be a town trait, but when he's not really providing anything himself, I read this as him trying to get discussion out of folks N1 to pick a good mafia target. He wants everyone's opinions on whether to post at night, wants active night discussion, then notes that he was "wishy washy", pmed a coach, and ... and nothing. IF he wants to bring up that he sought coaching on this point, why not put it into action? Why not tell us what prob thought? Unless prob told him "don't post at all," then he either (a) didn't actually PM anyone or (b) didn't DO anything about what prob said. That feels fishy, especially with him seeking info from others. Then D2...lurk lurk. Lurk lurk lurk. Posts, leaves, done. I'm quite suspicious of cross at this point. He's done ZERO scumhunting, he fished for info N1, and he lurked. Probably my top scumread right now. Bio and Anac are going to take me a little more work, but I wanted to go ahead and post this. I guess right now I'm looking at a scumteam of Dahdum/Crossfire/+1, which might come out of Bio or Anac. I need to look more at BioSC and Dahdum's little spat with each other, perhaps they're both intentionally making weak cases on the other to fill the thread, and if one got lynched the other could try to turn that into some town cred. Will read over Anac, I'm not as confident in my newbie town read as I was D1, but I want to find some actual reasons why and look harder.
First, about the pm stuff and night posting. I pm'd Probulous twice so far with this text + Show Spoiler + What's your thought on night posts in general? Should people freely talk during the night? Should they come up with a big post and post in the last few minutes before the day? but he hasn't responded. You can believe me or not. I can't post my inbox or anything like that because that's against the rules, so I don't know how to prove it that I've done this. Like I said in my "wishy-washy" posts, I don't know what is best for discussion during the night. Should everyone talk freely or should no one talk until the last minute? This is my second mafia game ever and I died night 1 in my last game, so I don't have much experience with this subject at all. Everyone has different opinions and honestly I wanted to hear from people to hopefully learn what to do after hearing everyone's opinions.
I haven't done any Scumhunting? Really? I know I wasn't there for Day 2, but here is some stuff from Day 1. + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote:I don't understand why everyone is not liking Firmtofu's first post + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. .He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that? As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though. As for me, I am only in favor of lynching lurkers as an absolute last resort. I feel we need to do our best scumhunting and if we do a good job, we can lynch a scum. Right now I am suspicious of Anacletus. He comes in and votes for Firmtofu as his first post with no explanation, but then gives this terrible reason for voting in his next post + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. He basically says he is just bandwagoning and not thinking for himself and this is just terrible. He then questions why Hyaach voted for him and defends himself with this + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:It was for a misspell. I don't understand what your line about FirmTofu is saying, it makes no sense. I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean. . He goes on theorizing about how mafia would play day 1. How do you know that they want to play like? Honestly I think people who are vocal in the thread, but don't through their vote around willy-nilly and don't just follow whatever the current train is in the thread are smart. It's the poeple who vote without any good reason who are suspicious to me. What say you Anacletus? + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 05:03 Crossfire99 wrote:Sorry for being so inactive, I’ve been very busy today. I haven’t been able to keep up with the thread very much, so I’ll focus on two things. My current position on Anacletus and this newfound suspicion on BroodKingEXE In relation to Anacletus: So far he has said he has had no information + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 09:22 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 09:16 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information. I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume? . Then he goes on to have a suspicion of BioSC + Show Spoiler + My personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself. backed up with little evidence. He also calls dahdum a bit suspicious because he posted his reads on everyone. (Note: I sort of agree with him here. I don’t think it is necessarily scummy, but a list of your reads on someone is not as helpful as a case against a few people. These posts also allow an easy for scum to hide and seem like they are doing work. In the end this quote goes in his favor.) Lastly he defends himself by saying is just a bad townie and doesn’t have any reads on everyone, just guesses + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 01:01 Anacletus wrote: Yeah, it's just bad town play. I really hope you guys don't lynch me and let the cop check me or something.
In the beginning I was just being reckless to start up the conversations. I've said it multiple times, but I'll say it again, I have no interest in hanging anyone yet as everything is just inconclusive guesses. . This isn’t a good defense because we have to lynch someone day 1 and since we have to lynch someone, he should put in work looking for scum instead of whatever little effort he has been giving so far. Right now he is just making excuses for not scum hunting. -------------------------------------- Now onto BroodKingEXE: I will start with this quote from ausitnmcc. It is his case against Brood. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 22:38 austinmcc wrote:My thoughts on Anacletus: His play does not feel like good townie play. I brought that up earlier, we've all discussed it by now, and I think we all seem to come to the same conclusion. While I would support a lynch of Anacletus, I think we have better targets. I'll look through his responses more today, but for now I would prefer to look elsewhere, and see how Anacletus continues to play. Right now, "not good townie play" is my read, but I'm not convinced that his play is scummy and not just bad townie play. However, we've got a quarter of D1 left, and I want to throw this case out and push it a little, see what comes of it. My top scum read: BroodKingEXE. BroodKingEXE filter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707&user=233869Skip 2/3 of the first page. It's pregame. He's active, vocal, chatting a lot with everyone in the pregame. Doesn't really mean anything. First posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 12:53 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm
Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. ##Vote: Firm Tofu These aren't entirely incompatible. Lynching lurkers bad, pressuring them good, let people post before we jump to conclusions. That seems townie, fine and dandy, but then he fires off the very first vote of the game on FirmTofu. Why? Because FirmTofu posted + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. Look at the bolded part of Broodking's first post. Now back to me. Now back to the bolded part of FirmTofu's post. Now back to me. Anything? That's the same exact thought process. And yet when FirmTofu vocalizes that, Broodking fires off the first vote of the game. I still don't agree with that vote at all, even if it was just to "pressure" someone, because there's absolutely no grounds for voting someone because they express a thought you just expressed slightly earlier. From then on out, it's a series of one-liner and response posts, but never really DOING anything. Last night (eastern time), BroodKing had one of the longest filters, and yet the only substantive post was him voting FirmTofu off the bat. For example: + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 03:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. This line stood out to me. BroodKing threw out of FIRST vote of the game on Tofu, before there was play to analyze and before Tofu responded to anything. Why does he need a response now to vote? After that, he starts giving responses to other people, specifically ShiaoPi's reads, but doesn't really add anything of substance. scummy+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none. On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. On May 11 2012 09:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet. Note that at this point, ShiaoPi has just thrown out the first real list of reads we had from anyone. BroodKing posts a couple times concerning the list, but doesn't really add anything. While he gets information out of ShiaoPi, he doesn't really provide any himself. At no point in those posts does he agree with a read or disagree with a read, rather, he simply acknowledges that reads were made and ShiaoPi voted. This is also the first point we begin to move AWAY from the Anacletus discussion (which has run its course at this point), and BroodKing continues to ask for information based on ShiaoPi's vote for Anacletus. Finally, compare his filter from this game with his filter from Newbie VIII, where he was town. + Show Spoiler + There are some posts in a similar style to his posts here, but a LOT of @x and @y, what do you guys think about z. Lots of longer discussions, paragraphs, lists. SOME of that is because he was the lynch target D1 and so had to be active and defend himself. But his townie posts from VIII feel more robust and they contribute, whereas his posts so far in XIII do not. ------------------------------- Anacletus's play still feels more bad than scummy. I would like to let him live for now, and see if he starts to really contribute. Right now he has 0 town cred, so if he's mafia he can't actively muck up town discussion. If we back off the pressure, MAYBE he mounts a decent defense and provides some good reads, because...he's got to do that to get any cred back. If not? We lynch him later, or we see if we can get any information N1 from blue roles that push us forward. Compared to Anacletus though, BroodKingEXE looks actively scummy. So far he hasn't contributed anything of note except the first vote of the game, which made little sense. He's supports getting responses before voting, but then votes without a response from FirmTofu. He wants scumhunting and reasoning, but has provided none. Again, I'm not opposed to an Anacletus lynch, but I would prefer to lynch the player that seems scummiest, which is BroodKing. ##Vote BroodKingEXE ##FOS: AnacletusDahdum, I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on this, as you read BroodKing to be scummy as well. I didn't really notice him until I looked through all the filters last night and realized he was my best scumread. Do you agree with my reasoning? Did you have different reasoning? I agree with some of what Austin has said because when I did my own read through of Brood’s filter, it is just a mess of garbage posts. He also hypocritically accuses Firmtofu and votes for him because Formtofu said to wait until everyone has posted before judging them evev though he said the same thing. But, I will say that his redeeming quality is that he is pretty active and is suspicios of these giant “here are my reads for every person in the game” posts. I don’t like these posts that much because as he pointed out, they are an easy way for scum to hide and seem like they are doing work, but in reality they aren’t. This means that he is less scummy in my eyes than Anacletus, but I am going to keep my eye on him in the future. ##Vote Anacletus I clearly go through Anac's posts and show why I thought he was scummy. How is that not scumhunting? I also responded to your case about brood and why I thought it was better to lynch Anac. Those were the big issues that everyone focused on Day 1, so that is what I discussed. It is useless to bring up argumentss on people i don't have a good read on becaue it jstu clogs up the thread. It was day 1, you aren't gonig to have great arguments on most people.
About the "wall of text" (do you mean paragraph?) + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 14:10 Crossfire99 wrote: Ok I'm going to summarize what I feel happened at the end of the day just to put everything into context. Anacletus has been playing scummy all game, then when everyone starts voting for him he starts flailing around and his posting can be seen to improve a little (I am still suspicious of him and expect him to step up his game to prove he isn't mafia in order to survive a day 2 lynch.) During this time austin puts together a case on Brood which many find convincing (It also caused me to put Brood on my radar). He adds to it and more join and switch votes. Brood defends himself terribly and dies for it. He turns out to be a 1 shot cop.
So I wrote that because that summary of the events framed my coming argument on Mufaa. I used it to show the entire day was dominated by discussion of Anac and Brood, but then Mufaa comes in votes for Jail, and decides to lynch Brood even though he believes he is town and knows his vote was meaningless. I said all this on my case on Mufaa Night 1. (isn't that also scumhunting?) The case is spoilered incase you want to read it now (minus the "wall of text"). + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 14:10 Crossfire99 wrote:Now going through the filters nothing really stuck out to me until I ran across these two posts by Mufaa. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
Austin's point about how even if Ana is scum he's lost so much credibility he can't make a push on someone d2. If he doesn't improve his play we might have to take him out later, but right now if we lynch him we won't gain any real info. Everyone has been on to him at some point, so if he flips town we gain almost nothing from this since his posts lack any content. If he flips scum the scum would lose a player, but that honestly might help them if he really is scum and is playing like this.
If we lynch someone else and they flip town, we can see who has been focused on them, who stayed out of the discussion on that person and we at least have some good info to discuss over d2. The odds are just as good of anyone else flipping scum, so I would rather flip someone who would give us info instead of giving scum the option to hide behind the excuse that Ana was such a bad townie, how could everyone not vote for him.
I think BroodKingEXE needs to post some content instead of one liners and just agreeing with people as it comes off scummy, but he isn't my first choice at the moment.
Jailbreaker- Why haven't you posted in the last 3 and a half pages? You commented early on about how much aggression there was but you haven't made a single case, even hinted at having a read, or contributed to the town in any way. Why are you so content to just sit back and watch everyone else debate with the deadline so close?
##Vote Jailbreaker
This isn't a permanent vote. I think Jailbreaker is the best lynch so far. If no one else feels this way, I will swing my vote to BroodKingEXE to get some info from the lynch as I do think his actual content will give us something to compare to everyone else d2 once we see his flip. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:19 Mufaa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 06:52 ShiaoPi wrote: Looking at Anacletus' later posts we could take a guess and say he is a townie who played bad. Especially for Mafia he is worthless right now due to his 0 town cred. Regarding BroodkingEXE, I guess I already said that he is either scum or blue. The case pushed by Mufaa is Jailbreaker, who is for sure another player high on the scum list, but there is also too little to make of him and I do not believe it warrants a lynch. Other suspects have posted little so really making a solid case against them is hard, especially within ~1 hour.
So in the end I guess we are still left with the question to lynch either Anacletus or BroodkingExe. I should probably stop rambling now and wait for your thoughts on it.
Let me clarify my vote. I wasn't making a concerted push on Jailbreaker. I was hoping others would follow suit to put some pressure on him and force some content before the deadline. 45 til the deadline and only 3 real posts w/ no vote means he's probably gonna get modkilled or warned so it won't matter either way. Still I don't like the idea of letting someone lurk the entire day.
Since Jailbreaker seems out that really only leaves a choice between bkexe and Ana. I don't think ana's flip will tell us anything other than his alignment so I'm going to vote bkexe just to not waste d1.
##Vote BroodKingEXE All he talks about is lynching for information. He doesn't think anac is scum. It also seems that he doesn't think that Brood is scum either. He says explicitly that an anac lynch won't give information but that a Brood lynch will. Now this is the part where it gets weird. At this point in time the vote count was 7-4 in favor of brood with him and Jail yet to vote. Worse case scenario for mufaa would be that jail voted for anac therefore making the voting 7-5. This means that mufaa was the only one left who hadn't voted. to make matters worse 5 people had just switched from anac to brood. They weren't going to switch back. Austin led the case and he wasn't moving. unforgiven switched from himself to brood after reading the cases against brood and his terrible defense. This basically meant that 7 votes on brood were guaranteed and he was going to die (a last minute cop claim might have changed this but I'm not sure because brood probably screwed himself over too much for it to be taken seriously). This meant mufaa ended up putting a meaningless vote on someone he thought was town. Why not push for someone else, someone who you thought was mafia?
Ok now on to my own reads Anacletus: I'm only discussing day2 on because i already discussed his day 1 play in my earlier posts. Day 2 he posts this + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 07:40 Anacletus wrote:Okay - so just to finalize my defense I'll be referencing this document austinmcc was awesome enough to post: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnX9O6cujxVmdFlvZkdqR1g0Qlh3d2dSaENrdW9DblE#gid=0Noticing the initial votes there are 5 people who didn't vote for me: austinmcc, Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Crossfire99, and Unforgiven_ve. austinmcc: I find his posts extremely town-oriented and the fact the he voted BKE and stuck with it through without bandwagoning seems very credible and I doubt that mafia would be so aggressive in posting, so I find him clean. Mufaa: I don't like how very early on his posts contained no assertions of mafia. I felt like he was just trying to stay clean and not put any pressure on himself until the very end of the day in which he voted for BKE. I also find his defense of me very fishy in that "Ana is probably just town" sort of thing. Jailbreaker: Dead/town Crossfire99: I don't find him suspicious for voting for me and sticking with his vote. Unforgiven_ve: I am not going to make a judgement at this time on his posting, although he raises my suspicions as well. My reasoning for bringing up the initial votes is because well - I know that: ShaioPi, Jailbreaker, BKE, and myself aren't mafia. That leaves 9 people left - with 4 being mafia. My synopsis of what happened day 1 was that the mafia began reasoning that I was of no use to the town so they abandoned my band wagon to try and hang someone more useful to the town. So my suspicions are of those who switched votes from me to BKE. My biggest suspicions lie with BioSC and FirmTofu - I truly believe them to be mafia and would like for one of them to get hung today, and here is my reasoning why: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#190This post by Tofu not only distracts from any points made against BioSC but further asserts cases made against me and darkfire - and again my logic being that I know that I am not mafia so I can assume that the claims made against myself are baseless as his only points seem to be based off of what darkfire is saying. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#183BioSC also makes excruciatingly similar posts to Tofu - it's almost as if they are working together! And my biggest reasoning to vote for them is because of how they both switched from my band wagon vote to vote for BKE after several times trying to seal a vote for me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=17#326My opinions on fluff posts using "we" in town situations are also pretty revealing with one's alignment. ##Vote BioSCHere's my vote - I strongly urge you guys to vote with me on this as I truly believe my synopsis to be accurate. . He accuses Bio and FirmTofu in this post. He defends his arguments here + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2012 20:49 Anacletus wrote:You're not even refuting or countering any of my points with validations for your actions anymore: Show nested quote +Again, I've stated my reason for switching votes. Since you can't be bothered looking it up, here it is: I've stated several times that I am not voting for you solely based on your reasoning for changing votes. Make a case against someone who is playing scummy, like we told you about 5 times. You're pretty condescending for someone who doesn't address any of the points I've made against them, but instead creates round-about posts that pretty aggressive. I haven't tied you to anyone. You've tried to tie me to darkfire several times. Something YOU have failed to do so far in your case against me. We can't lynch more than one person per day so I'm not aiming for a complete mafia call out - I am just convinced that you are mafia. I've also said several times that I believe that FirmTofu is mafia as well based on your posting similarities. But I guess you overlooked that. Honestly, if you ARE town, I don't even think you know why you are making a case against me. Got me there! Wait, not really, try reading my last couple of posts. If you are mafia, then the obvious reason would be to get a ball rolling on someone who's been vocal in the thread, so to make it "easier" to garner votes towards me. So your defense now is: "I'M NOT MAFIA, HE'S MAFIA"? Let's say the town DOES finally decide to hang me, you don't think I'll end the day with someone like "Okay, once you hang me go after BioSC and FirmTofu"? I feel like your strategy is pretty near-sighted for being a mafia. Your cute plan of trying to get whoever ShiaoPi was fingering more imaginative. Now that is pretty much the only scumhunting done by him, which isn't much. This could easily have been written by his mafia teammates and fed to him because when you look at his other posts, most of them discuss how mafia is going to be playing. + Show Spoiler + On May 13 2012 12:34 Anacletus wrote: I actually think that it may have been a mafia tactic to off someone who was NOT on the right track to make us think exactly what you are saying. Maybe you're mafia trying to start this trend? / + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2012 11:16 Anacletus wrote: This is very cute.
This is exactly what I am talking about man. You're playing exactly like mafia would. Of course the mafia wouldn't kill someone who was suspecting mafia - they would lynch someone who was pointing fingers at another townie and then after the killing they would bring up "Oh, this person_X thought Person_Y was mafia and Person_X was killed, that must mean Person_Y is mafia too and was killed for the suspicions!"
I'm even more deeply convinced that you are mafia now.
/ + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2012 12:16 Anacletus wrote:
And of COURSE I bring up the fact that you're trying to denote hanging correlations with who the hanged thought was guilty, it's pretty standard mafia play. I'm convinced that you're mafia and you're voting for me because I think you're mafia? Cute reasoning, my vote isn't a counter to you voting for me on day 1, this is me being convinced that you are mafia.
Like I have mentioned earlier. We have no idea how mafia is going to play. All we have is everyone's posts. Mafia can play anyway they want, they don't have to play the way we want them to play. I think you are posting that stuff and are arguing so vehemently for it because you want us to assume mafia is playing one way but really playing another way.
Anacletus will be getting my vote day 3.
Now I just realized this, while looking at Anacletus, but you Austin have had suspicions of him since day 1. You then post this case on Brood, which saves Anac, but you still say you are suspicious of Anac. (+ Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 22:38 austinmcc wrote:My thoughts on Anacletus: His play does not feel like good townie play. I brought that up earlier, we've all discussed it by now, and I think we all seem to come to the same conclusion. While I would support a lynch of Anacletus, I think we have better targets. I'll look through his responses more today, but for now I would prefer to look elsewhere, and see how Anacletus continues to play. Right now, "not good townie play" is my read, but I'm not convinced that his play is scummy and not just bad townie play. However, we've got a quarter of D1 left, and I want to throw this case out and push it a little, see what comes of it. My top scum read: BroodKingEXE. BroodKingEXE filter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707&user=233869Skip 2/3 of the first page. It's pregame. He's active, vocal, chatting a lot with everyone in the pregame. Doesn't really mean anything. First posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 12:53 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm
Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post.
What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum.
##Vote: Firm Tofu These aren't entirely incompatible. Lynching lurkers bad, pressuring them good, let people post before we jump to conclusions. That seems townie, fine and dandy, but then he fires off the very first vote of the game on FirmTofu. Why? Because FirmTofu posted + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. Look at the bolded part of Broodking's first post. Now back to me. Now back to the bolded part of FirmTofu's post. Now back to me. Anything? That's the same exact thought process. And yet when FirmTofu vocalizes that, Broodking fires off the first vote of the game. I still don't agree with that vote at all, even if it was just to "pressure" someone, because there's absolutely no grounds for voting someone because they express a thought you just expressed slightly earlier. From then on out, it's a series of one-liner and response posts, but never really DOING anything. Last night (eastern time), BroodKing had one of the longest filters, and yet the only substantive post was him voting FirmTofu off the bat. For example: + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 03:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. This line stood out to me. BroodKing threw out of FIRST vote of the game on Tofu, before there was play to analyze and before Tofu responded to anything. Why does he need a response now to vote? After that, he starts giving responses to other people, specifically ShiaoPi's reads, but doesn't really add anything of substance. scummy+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote:@Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 09:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet. Note that at this point, ShiaoPi has just thrown out the first real list of reads we had from anyone. BroodKing posts a couple times concerning the list, but doesn't really add anything. While he gets information out of ShiaoPi, he doesn't really provide any himself. At no point in those posts does he agree with a read or disagree with a read, rather, he simply acknowledges that reads were made and ShiaoPi voted. This is also the first point we begin to move AWAY from the Anacletus discussion (which has run its course at this point), and BroodKing continues to ask for information based on ShiaoPi's vote for Anacletus. Finally, compare his filter from this game with his filter from Newbie VIII, where he was town. + Show Spoiler + There are some posts in a similar style to his posts here, but a LOT of @x and @y, what do you guys think about z. Lots of longer discussions, paragraphs, lists. SOME of that is because he was the lynch target D1 and so had to be active and defend himself. But his townie posts from VIII feel more robust and they contribute, whereas his posts so far in XIII do not. ------------------------------- Anacletus's play still feels more bad than scummy. I would like to let him live for now, and see if he starts to really contribute. Right now he has 0 town cred, so if he's mafia he can't actively muck up town discussion. If we back off the pressure, MAYBE he mounts a decent defense and provides some good reads, because...he's got to do that to get any cred back. If not? We lynch him later, or we see if we can get any information N1 from blue roles that push us forward. Compared to Anacletus though, BroodKingEXE looks actively scummy. So far he hasn't contributed anything of note except the first vote of the game, which made little sense. He's supports getting responses before voting, but then votes without a response from FirmTofu. He wants scumhunting and reasoning, but has provided none. Again, I'm not opposed to an Anacletus lynch, but I would prefer to lynch the player that seems scummiest, which is BroodKing. ##Vote BroodKingEXE ##FOS: AnacletusDahdum, I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on this, as you read BroodKing to be scummy as well. I didn't really notice him until I looked through all the filters last night and realized he was my best scumread. Do you agree with my reasoning? Did you have different reasoning? ) You then say you are still suspicious of Anac (+ Show Spoiler + On May 13 2012 07:41 austinmcc wrote: Assorted thoughts:
I'm still suspicious of Anac. More and more people seem to be swinging towards bad townie play. I'd like to see more contributions from you Anac, because at this point I'm still unconvinced. I may have helped save you from a lynch AND given you a story to hide behind.
I'm currently not really suspicious of anyone for "wagoning." When I initially posted on Anac and Brood, I legitimately felt that Anac was quite possibly townie, and Brood looked scummy. I stand by those reads. To the extent that you guys think those reads were sensible, then agreeing with them is NOT scummy play (in my mind). To me, I'm actually more suspicious of those whose votes didn't go Anac --> Brood.
). You also state you are suspicious of people who didn't follow your bandwagon (worried people are thinking too much and not just blindly following you?) This then starts your new case on darkfire (who voted for anac day 1 and didn't follow your prodding) (+ Show Spoiler + [QUOTE] On May 14 2012 23:29 austinmcc wrote:Looks like mother's day killed discussion. As of right now, I've got a few people that I'd love to see post more. Mufaa, Unforgiven, Hyaach, Firm. I've got weak townie reads on some of you, but there's just not enough there to go on. Please try and get some substantive posting in today. Inactivity is killing us (and i've contributed), so we've got to try and turn this around. Also interested in hearing more from Dahdum and BioSC. You guys keep calling each other out, but haven't drummed up that much interest from the rest of us it seems. Can either of you really put something good together on the other, why you think they might be scummy beyond just OMGUS? Either one of you could have something there, but I don't find anything in your filters all that convincing.
Asking for more from others doesn't really give you anything from me, so here's what I've got to contribute. Right now my top read, and my vote, are on DarkfireHis D1 filter is some general talk about "bandwagoning" and pronouns. Votes Anac because he seems scummiest, but doesn't really give much of his own read. Just kind of going along with where votes were falling at the time. He pops in during the Anac/Brood discussion only to give the one post that everyone seems to find suspicious: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:17 Darkfirex5 wrote: I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia. Dark, I need to really hear some defense of this statement from you. What made Anac the safest mafia guess? What reasons did you really have for voting him? You repeat this argument after D1, lamenting why nobody listened to you. Well, what should we have listened to? Give us a decent reason you voted Anac and didn't vote Brood. Brood's filter was one of the longer ones in the game at that point, as we've pointed out, and, in fact, Brood's filter during D1 was longer than yours is this entire game so far. If his filter wasn't long enough to give you evidence he was scum, your filter really isn't long enough to convince me that you're town. The only response you've given to anyone's suspicions on you so far is [quote]The reason i like to stay cautious is because when things start happening fast like at the end of day one, we may end up switching the bandwagon and lynching a townie, inthis case the cop. I also think suspicions on people are much different then placing a vote. By me saying im suspicious of people means okay, something doesnt seem right but i need more evidence for me to want to put a vote on them to be lynched. The reason i kept the slight defense on Anacletus was becuase it was still day 1 and its hard to decide on the lynching. I ended up voting on him anyway becuase he seemed more scummy than EXE and i didnt like risking the vote on EXE before more evidence was obtained from/for him to prove he was scummy. So i went with the person who seemed the scummiest at the time, Anacletus. This feels like really weak reasoning. I maintain that there wasn't much of a case on Anac, and there was a decent case on Brood. I don't know why you had enough evidence on Anac but not on Brood. You've never really clearly explained your choices, either during D1 or in response to people calling you out. And they have. Here's ShiaoPi: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 10:00 ShiaoPi wrote:I want to focus a bit on darkfirex5: If you read through his filter, you immediately see that there is simply a lot of weak halfcases he starts against several people, these include: Anacletus (where his vote ends up), BioSC, FirmTofu and dahdum. His posts are few and mostly within the context of the Anacletus discussion, in which he seemingly takes a diverting role with his suspicions. In regards to BKE he writes the following: + Show Spoiler + I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia.
I bolded the part which seemed weird to me. I could agree with his reasoning on not wanting to switch before, but BKE was actually one of the more active players so it seems like a sentence without anything backing it up. Generally speaking he is acting scummy as in non-comittal to his reads/suspicions and inactivity. Keep your eyes on him. and + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 20:36 ShiaoPi wrote:Darkfirex5 also posted the following: + Show Spoiler +I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that Which means he is totally ignoring my post about him. Just a general statement of regret and a somehow flawed logic of a "safer bet". I believe we have quite established that Anacletus can easily be lynched later if the need arises. Anyone else up for pressuring him as well? Here's me: + Show Spoiler +Darkfire. Others have already mentioned this. As votes are coming in on Anac, says it's a "weak bandwagon," with weak reasoning behind it. An hour and a half later, drops his vote on Anac. Now finds Anac scummiest. Then he defends Brood, saying he wants "more posts" from one of the more active players at that point and time (based purely on filter length). At night, we get this: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 11:32 Darkfirex5 wrote: I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that I have no idea what to make of that. He didn't think anac was scum until anac's self-vote, then decided anac was the safest/safer lynch? Complains about no solid evidence on Brood, but again, I think the evidence DID look bad for Brood. And if it didn't, what good evidence was there on Anac? Also, just very, very focused on bandwagoning in general, mentioning it a LOT. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and I still believe that at the end of D1, Brood looked the scummiest. After ShiaoPi gets killed, here's Darkfire - [QUOTE] On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote:well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D[/QUOTE] Another unhelpful post after an event (Just like his "safer" bet comment after D1). Without any recognition that one of ShiaoPi's main reads was him. Shiao had called out Darkfire twice, I'd chimed in, and Dark still hasn't responded to any of that. While he recently claims to have been trying to look into Mufaa and Dahdum, there's nothing there. His looking into Mufaa is just quoting a post from Shiao (without ever answering Shiao's questions about himself). I don't see him "looking into" dahdum at all, except after dahdum calls him out on typoing Unforgiven's name into a post instead of Anac. There really just doesn't seem to be anything in his posts at all. There's a lack of unhelpful reads. Multiple UNhelpful posts (after D1 and N1). A complete lack of response to Shiao and my concerns about him. Right now Darkfire, you're my number one scum read, and you get my vote. ##Vote: Darkfirex5[/QUOTE] ). Only 2 people believe your case. Darkfire barely gets lynched and surprise, surprise he is town. Now you are focusing on me being your biggest scumread (i also didn't follow his vote on day 1, coincidence?).
Right now I have Austin and Anacletus as 2/3 scum.
Hmmm, curiously I just noticed in your last post, you leave out Anacletus and Bio in your reads. Why? Are they your scumbuddies?
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+ Show Spoiler + On May 16 2012 06:05 austinmcc wrote:Looks like I won't be back before the deadline, so I'll just parrot what everyone else is saying and note that I'm still suspicious of Anac, despite arguing against a vote on him D1. What really sticks out to me is this post - Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 00:09 Anacletus wrote: I've played mafia before. That being said nothing that I say is guaranteed so playing one playstyle will probably let them metagame us. I was only throwing out my 2 cents. Also, maybe I'm metagaming knowing mafia will read this.
The hole goes deeper. I alluded to it D1, + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 00:39 austinmcc wrote:Anacletus, why, specifically, did you vote Tofu? All you've said is: In your original vote. But you didn't tell us what you found suspicious. Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:
I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean. Say you think this, why vote Tofu? He posted once, 40 minutes into the game, and hasn't been active. That's not vocal in chat. His activity so far this game doesn't fit the pattern that you believe to be scummy. Town's job isn't to care about what gameplan mafia may or may not have. Our job is to hunt scum. To me, your vote on Tofu, especially as it runs against your own reasoning, looks scummy or newbie townish. Yet you say you've played games elsewhere before. , but I didn't pressure that point. I still don't like him as a lynch candidate over others, but the fact that he came out and said he was new keeps me unsure about absolutely branding him as just playing poorly as town early on. I don't know whether to slot Anac in as the third mafia, whether to think maybe dahdum and BioSC were just looking to make weak cases on each other and gain town cred if one was lynched and flipped scum, or whether there's another third mafia member out there. Relatively confident in those other two reads, and I can't really adopt some plan of "Assume everyone I read as scum is town," because that's just too confusing. I'll post more when I get enough free time and a computer, but it will be after the deadline. If nothing else, should I be the nightkill, hopefully some of this will be helpful.
Now he conveniently states that he is still suspicious of Anac, but not suspicious enough to warrant a vote. Hmmm? I definitely think you are trying to defend your scumbuddy, but still trying to keep your hands clean if he is lynched over your wishes by saying you were still suspicious.
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On May 16 2012 06:16 Crossfire99 wrote: Hmmm, curiously I just noticed in your last post, you leave out Anacletus and Bio in your reads. Why? Are they your scumbuddies?
On May 16 2012 03:42 austinmcc wrote: Bio and Anac are going to take me a little more work, but I wanted to go ahead and post this. I guess right now I'm looking at a scumteam of Dahdum/Crossfire/+1, which might come out of Bio or Anac. I need to look more at BioSC and Dahdum's little spat with each other, perhaps they're both intentionally making weak cases on the other to fill the thread, and if one got lynched the other could try to turn that into some town cred. Will read over Anac, I'm not as confident in my newbie town read as I was D1, but I want to find some actual reasons why and look harder.
Gave my reasoning there.
Anac I want to really sit and think on, that's going to take me some time. I post from work during the day, and can't set aside the time to drill down on his posts, analyze them, type out thoughts. That's gotta wait for me getting home. It's easy to analyze those who haven't been too active, but it's more difficult to actually give analysis on Anac, because he was very active, we've had a lot of accusations/suspicions concerning him, and a lot of OTHER reads depend on what his alignment is. Anac's alignment really determines a lot of people's reads from what I can tell.
Left out Bio because, as I said, I want to look more at the exchanged between him and dahdum and see what I get.
Also, let's say I left the two of them out and we're all scumbuddies. That sure seems like a TERRIBLE PLAN. Why on earth would I telegraph something like that? I've given reasoning for my reads, made arguments, I haven't been illogical so far. Why would I randomly go, herp derp I don't want to make reads on mafia, maybe nobody will notice. IF i die tonight, you'll know I'm not scum. IF i don't, AND I don't post anything on the two of them, THEN come talk to me.
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On May 16 2012 06:24 Crossfire99 wrote: Now he conveniently states that he is still suspicious of Anac, but not suspicious enough to warrant a vote. Hmmm? I definitely think you are trying to defend your scumbuddy, but still trying to keep your hands clean if he is lynched over your wishes by saying you were still suspicious.
Pretty much half the players were suspicious of him D1 but didn't vote for him? Go read the thread. We had a lot of "I'm still not convinced, but he can't hurt us D2" (Yes, I argued that and others accepted it).
Here's Shiao. Goes from - + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 00:22 ShiaoPi wrote: @austinmcc: Considering your thoughts on Anacletus: There is always the possibility of bad town play instead of scummy play. But doesn't the defense of Anacletus (or more the lack of) seem weird to you? Also his lack of good contributions? I guess bad townie play is always a possibility, but for now I stand by my vote.
On the accusations on BroodKingEXE: You bring up some good analysis. I guess I overlooked those aspects of his posts because I was more busy defending my posts against him than analyzing. I'll have to reread his filter thoroughly though, before doing anything.
to + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:42 ShiaoPi wrote:As it stands right now, Anacletus will get lynched as he has the most votes. And a lynch on him is fine on my watch as well. Just want to get something more telling from BroodkingEXE. He seems to have conveniently vanished as pressure against him mounted up. As crappy as it was Anacletus did try to defend himself. He still is one of the bigger scumreads right now and as austinmcc argued correctly he has absolutely zero credibility right now. So as scum, who might attempt to sway town's discussion he is worthless at the moment until he steps it up and starts to give us reasons to believe him again. BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this: + Show Spoiler +Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy.
Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me.
BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. ) His other post calls out austinmcc as scummy for repeating his beliefs on Anacletus (that he is a bad townie but not necessarily mafia). BroodkingEXE's post were done after austinmcc's case against him and yet he managed to ignore it completely. So either 1) He did not see/read austinmcc's post (highly unlikely) 2) He did read it and chose to ignore it as he seems safe enough with the current votecount So the only way to get him into talking seems to be to unvote one by one and making him think of his own position of less than secure. I just want to hear more from him, if we do not get him to talk and Anacletus is lynched, at least we will know Anacletus' role and from there on we have more room to expand our discussion. Either way they are both top priorities for pressure/questioning regardless of whom we lynch today. to + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:09 ShiaoPi wrote: In the end (with less than an hour to lynchtime) if I have to pick between Anacletus and BroodKingEXE I'll have to go with BroodKingEXE, his lynch seems more useful to me. Since even if we mislynch we gain more information from his flip than from Anacletus'
##vote BroodKingEXE
Unless something drastic happens, my vote stays. . Always suspicious of Anac, but ends up voting Brood for information/finds him more scummy.
Here's dahdum - + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count? . Anac is "still suspicious," but wants to lynch BioSC or Brood.
Here's BioSC - + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:14 BioSC wrote: Yes, we are close to lynch time, and Brood hasn't shown himself for 2+ hours. However, I don't like the precedence swapping the bandwagon onto him says about play. I feel like it gives scum an out.
"Well, even though my posts were scummy, and the majority of town have been calling me out on it, and I've yet to offer anything positive to town, you guys forgave Ana, why not forgive me?"
For now, my vote stays as is. As we wind down to time, though, what does that mean if Brood doesn't show up till night starts? What is our plan before then? Do we all switch the bandwagon to Brood for a last minute lynch? Or is it a last minute ploy by mafia to save scum that has been playing badly? , staying with the Anac vote, then + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:45 BioSC wrote: Which is a fair conclusion. I am also voting for the person I believe is the most scummy, which is Anac. Your points on Brood, however, haven't been lost on me. Reading through his filter along with your case against him definitely raises my suspicions towards him.
My second half of the post was more of a discussion starter than a concrete plan for us to follow. As of right now, the only people on and even discussing the case this close to lynch is you, me, and ShiaoPi. If you want to get your lynch case through, the best way to do that is discussion, and by trying to convince the 4 non-voters as of yet to vote your way, but even then, I feel like the case against Anac is already too stacked against him to change. staying with the Anac vote but being suspicious of Brood, then + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:45 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count? Your tunnelling on me makes absolutely no sense. We've had pretty much the exact same reads on people, excepting of course that for whatever strange reason you believe I'm playing scummy. I've already asked you for reasons on why you think I'm scum, but frankly they are pretty tame and only serve to distract and cause more arguments. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 12:57 dahdum wrote:@biosc Sure, this is why I think you're scummy: Show nested quote + Sounds like a solid strategy. Basic, but solid. Getting rid of lurkers/low content players seems like a win/win. If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
You're agreeing with me here, but then the "they would be as bad as scum" phrase really seems out of place. My first suspicion based on that. Show nested quote + While I agree that the back half of his post is worthy of discussion, I would hope that simply saying that him hoping you aren't mafia is worthy of a lynch. Maybe it's just me, but that simply sounds as if he remembers you from a previous game, and perhaps you did well as mafia then. I feel like the mafia/town alignment of a previous game shouldn't be a factor in deciding whom to lynch in THIS game.
Show nested quote +Read what I posted again. I threw my suspicions towards him as well. Not sure what about my post was defending him.
By throwing your suspicions I assume you mean the phrase "back half of his post is worthy of discussion". Super passive and non-committal. Show nested quote +Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. Sounds like something one scum says to another. I'd also like to hear more on who you think is suspicious beyond Analectus? What is your goal here? You believe I'm scum, but have the same reads as a scum? I'm not even sure you follow your own logic. We are discussing the lynch of Anacletus or BroodKingExe, Why would you bring me into this discussion, if not to distract from what we are discussing. If you have a case against me, make it. So far your suspicions of me have been weak at best, so I hope that if you are making a case, it's better than "He said some cryptic things on day 1", and "He had a scum read on one of my reads, but said something I believe to be scumtalk" Honestly this whole half-assed commited case you have against me just strengthens my case for you being scum. Back to the case at hand. I've stated multiple times that I believe Anacletus to be scum, however, with the recent case against BXE, I'm inclined to swap my vote to him. The biggest reason I am to swap my vote over, is this line in Austin's case. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote:
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
Both players have had people call them out on being scummy. However, due to Anac losing all credit with the town, regardless of affiliation, it would be tough for him ,should he be mafia, to get any ball rolling on someone else in town. It's not a forgiveness for bad play, its a delay in action for a scum target appearing more scummy near the end of the day. ## Unvote## Vote BroodKingEXE . Note at the end he's got the same read. Anac has lost all town credit, so can't really cause any mischief. He still seems suspicious of Anac, thinks he's scummy, but votes Brood.
In fact, here's YOU on D1 - + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:03 Crossfire99 wrote:Sorry for being so inactive, I’ve been very busy today. I haven’t been able to keep up with the thread very much, so I’ll focus on two things. My current position on Anacletus and this newfound suspicion on BroodKingEXE In relation to Anacletus: So far he has said he has had no information + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 09:22 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 09:16 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information. I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume? . Then he goes on to have a suspicion of BioSC + Show Spoiler + My personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself. backed up with little evidence. He also calls dahdum a bit suspicious because he posted his reads on everyone. (Note: I sort of agree with him here. I don’t think it is necessarily scummy, but a list of your reads on someone is not as helpful as a case against a few people. These posts also allow an easy for scum to hide and seem like they are doing work. In the end this quote goes in his favor.) Lastly he defends himself by saying is just a bad townie and doesn’t have any reads on everyone, just guesses + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 01:01 Anacletus wrote: Yeah, it's just bad town play. I really hope you guys don't lynch me and let the cop check me or something.
In the beginning I was just being reckless to start up the conversations. I've said it multiple times, but I'll say it again, I have no interest in hanging anyone yet as everything is just inconclusive guesses. . This isn’t a good defense because we have to lynch someone day 1 and since we have to lynch someone, he should put in work looking for scum instead of whatever little effort he has been giving so far. Right now he is just making excuses for not scum hunting. -------------------------------------- Now onto BroodKingEXE: I will start with this quote from ausitnmcc. It is his case against Brood. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 22:38 austinmcc wrote:My thoughts on Anacletus: His play does not feel like good townie play. I brought that up earlier, we've all discussed it by now, and I think we all seem to come to the same conclusion. While I would support a lynch of Anacletus, I think we have better targets. I'll look through his responses more today, but for now I would prefer to look elsewhere, and see how Anacletus continues to play. Right now, "not good townie play" is my read, but I'm not convinced that his play is scummy and not just bad townie play. However, we've got a quarter of D1 left, and I want to throw this case out and push it a little, see what comes of it. My top scum read: BroodKingEXE. BroodKingEXE filter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707&user=233869Skip 2/3 of the first page. It's pregame. He's active, vocal, chatting a lot with everyone in the pregame. Doesn't really mean anything. First posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 12:53 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm
Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. ##Vote: Firm Tofu These aren't entirely incompatible. Lynching lurkers bad, pressuring them good, let people post before we jump to conclusions. That seems townie, fine and dandy, but then he fires off the very first vote of the game on FirmTofu. Why? Because FirmTofu posted + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. Look at the bolded part of Broodking's first post. Now back to me. Now back to the bolded part of FirmTofu's post. Now back to me. Anything? That's the same exact thought process. And yet when FirmTofu vocalizes that, Broodking fires off the first vote of the game. I still don't agree with that vote at all, even if it was just to "pressure" someone, because there's absolutely no grounds for voting someone because they express a thought you just expressed slightly earlier. From then on out, it's a series of one-liner and response posts, but never really DOING anything. Last night (eastern time), BroodKing had one of the longest filters, and yet the only substantive post was him voting FirmTofu off the bat. For example: + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 03:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. This line stood out to me. BroodKing threw out of FIRST vote of the game on Tofu, before there was play to analyze and before Tofu responded to anything. Why does he need a response now to vote? After that, he starts giving responses to other people, specifically ShiaoPi's reads, but doesn't really add anything of substance. scummy+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none. On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. On May 11 2012 09:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet. Note that at this point, ShiaoPi has just thrown out the first real list of reads we had from anyone. BroodKing posts a couple times concerning the list, but doesn't really add anything. While he gets information out of ShiaoPi, he doesn't really provide any himself. At no point in those posts does he agree with a read or disagree with a read, rather, he simply acknowledges that reads were made and ShiaoPi voted. This is also the first point we begin to move AWAY from the Anacletus discussion (which has run its course at this point), and BroodKing continues to ask for information based on ShiaoPi's vote for Anacletus. Finally, compare his filter from this game with his filter from Newbie VIII, where he was town. + Show Spoiler + There are some posts in a similar style to his posts here, but a LOT of @x and @y, what do you guys think about z. Lots of longer discussions, paragraphs, lists. SOME of that is because he was the lynch target D1 and so had to be active and defend himself. But his townie posts from VIII feel more robust and they contribute, whereas his posts so far in XIII do not. ------------------------------- Anacletus's play still feels more bad than scummy. I would like to let him live for now, and see if he starts to really contribute. Right now he has 0 town cred, so if he's mafia he can't actively muck up town discussion. If we back off the pressure, MAYBE he mounts a decent defense and provides some good reads, because...he's got to do that to get any cred back. If not? We lynch him later, or we see if we can get any information N1 from blue roles that push us forward. Compared to Anacletus though, BroodKingEXE looks actively scummy. So far he hasn't contributed anything of note except the first vote of the game, which made little sense. He's supports getting responses before voting, but then votes without a response from FirmTofu. He wants scumhunting and reasoning, but has provided none. Again, I'm not opposed to an Anacletus lynch, but I would prefer to lynch the player that seems scummiest, which is BroodKing. ##Vote BroodKingEXE ##FOS: AnacletusDahdum, I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on this, as you read BroodKing to be scummy as well. I didn't really notice him until I looked through all the filters last night and realized he was my best scumread. Do you agree with my reasoning? Did you have different reasoning? I agree with some of what Austin has said because when I did my own read through of Brood’s filter, it is just a mess of garbage posts. He also hypocritically accuses Firmtofu and votes for him because Formtofu said to wait until everyone has posted before judging them evev though he said the same thing. But, I will say that his redeeming quality is that he is pretty active and is suspicios of these giant “here are my reads for every person in the game” posts. I don’t like these posts that much because as he pointed out, they are an easy way for scum to hide and seem like they are doing work, but in reality they aren’t. This means that he is less scummy in my eyes than Anacletus, but I am going to keep my eye on him in the future. ##Vote Anacletus . You apologize for inactivity, not that you're sticking with Anac but that Brood is "less scummy" than Anac but you'll be "keeping your eye on him."
So yes. I "conveniently" state I'm suspicious of Anac, but voted someone else. Oh no. Turns out practically half of us were suspicious of Anac but voted elsewhere. In fact, YOU were suspicious of Brood, "keeping your eye on him," but voted Anac. If being suspicious of one of those two and voting for the other is a scumtell, then we're in big trouble because we're ALL scum.
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Some quick math for everyone.
1.Mufaa 2.austinmcc 3.Dahdum 4.Crossfire99 5.FirmTofu 6.Unforgiven_ve 7.BioSC 8.Anacletus 9.Hyaach
We know a town will die tonight. To all you townies, you know that YOU are not mafia. Therefore, with 4 town and 3 mafia you will have exactly a 50/50 chance of getting the lynch right if you pick a random person that isn't yourself. Additionally, we will have to get it right or we lose.
I want everyone to make a list of their top three candidates for mafia. We can cross-reference everyone's lists to figure out who might be lying.
Here's mine in no particular order: 1) dahdum 2) BioSC 3) Mufaa
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Vote for BioSC people! TT
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I'm pretty sure I'm 100% dead by tonight because I can't see mafia killing anyone else besides austin. However, austin is suspected of mafia for his actions, so I doubt he'll be dying today.
Please contribute. It's perfectly okay if you think I'm mafia, just tell us who your three top candidates for mafia are.
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On May 16 2012 10:58 Anacletus wrote: Vote for BioSC people! TT Do you have an argument for suspecting him, or are you just bandwagoning off of what dahdum says? Until you provide me with some credible evidence I can't just trust you like that.
The only reason I have him on my scum list is because of his voting patterns and the single-dimensional nature of those who want him dead(mark of a town). It's more of a guess than anything based on evidence, but I'm willing to put myself out there for more information from others.
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On May 16 2012 10:59 FirmTofu wrote: I'm pretty sure I'm 100% dead by tonight because I can't see mafia killing anyone else besides austin. However, austin is suspected of mafia for his actions, so I doubt he'll be dying today.
Please contribute. It's perfectly okay if you think I'm mafia, just tell us who your three top candidates for mafia are.
Been expecting you to be the target as well. No sense taking me out when I'm sure I'll get some heat tomorrow.
As for my reads, right now they're the same as above: dahdum, crossfire, _____
Got stuck out later than I wanted, so will have to fill in the third tomorrow. Since we've got some suspicions on Bio, I'll really need to take a look at him.
Firm, you suspect both dahdum and Bio?
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uh? i came in to check the night post and i hasnt been made?
My top 3:
austincc Anacletus Dahdum/Mufaa/Hyaach maybe bio/crossfire ... lol, thats all of us but me i guess
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 3
Dahdum, Vanilla Townie has been shot! Mufaa, Mafia Godfather has been shot!
Sorry for being late on the Day post! Voting ends in 1.5 days, Thursday at 23:00 GMT (+00:00)
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Well i guess the night wasn't for naught. Going to look through mufaa's filter.
In case anyone was wondering, I was suspicious of dahdum before this. Obviously I was wrong i guess.
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So 7 alive, with a 5/2 town/mafia split. Takes us out of MYLO for one day. Nice shot vigi, really saved our asses. Any chance you breacrumbed the role/shot well?
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Nice shot vig. GG guys was fun.
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i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc
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I'm still convinced of BioSC.
##Vote BioSC
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Hey Austin, what do you think of BioSC? Would he be a good lynch? I'm on the fence right now, maybe you could share your thoughts?
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Just got back in, gonna be looking at that now. Right now I'm on the fence about one of the lurkers from D2 vs. Bio. But dahdum being town screws up the team that I was picturing, so...guess I need to look more at the lurkers. I just can't believe we had 3 townies miss an entire day of discussion, not to mention our numbers are low. Thinking one mafia there, and either the other is also in that group or would be Bio/Anac. I'll have specific Bio thoughts up tonight.
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Lets just pause for one second. Are we really going to vote with someone who multiple confirmed townies have called out since day 1, has had inconsistent posting patterns, and is now tunneling against the person who has been calling him out since day 2?
Whomever shot Mufaa, thank you. I wish I could take credit for it, but I can't. Now, we can finally look at the filter of a CONFIRMED scum, and try to draw some conclusions from it.
This post in particular stood out to me: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
Austin's point about how even if Ana is scum he's lost so much credibility he can't make a push on someone d2. If he doesn't improve his play we might have to take him out later, but right now if we lynch him we won't gain any real info. Everyone has been on to him at some point, so if he flips town we gain almost nothing from this since his posts lack any content. If he flips scum the scum would lose a player, but that honestly might help them if he really is scum and is playing like this.
If we lynch someone else and they flip town, we can see who has been focused on them, who stayed out of the discussion on that person and we at least have some good info to discuss over d2. The odds are just as good of anyone else flipping scum, so I would rather flip someone who would give us info instead of giving scum the option to hide behind the excuse that Ana was such a bad townie, how could everyone not vote for him.
I think BroodKingEXE needs to post some content instead of one liners and just agreeing with people as it comes off scummy, but he isn't my first choice at the moment.
Jailbreaker- Why haven't you posted in the last 3 and a half pages? You commented early on about how much aggression there was but you haven't made a single case, even hinted at having a read, or contributed to the town in any way. Why are you so content to just sit back and watch everyone else debate with the deadline so close?
##Vote Jailbreaker
This isn't a permanent vote. I think Jailbreaker is the best lynch so far. If no one else feels this way, I will swing my vote to BroodKingEXE to get some info from the lynch as I do think his actual content will give us something to compare to everyone else d2 once we see his flip.
We know for a fact that Mufaa was scum. Therefore, HE knows what alignment Anacletus is. If Ana was town, why would the scum team switch votes to anyone? Town lynches a townie, and scum get to shoot someone, instantly putting them in the best possible situation. The only situation i can see is that the scumteam made a last minute ploy to save Anacletus, and it worked.
The suspicions I have are further strengthened by the same vote list that Anacletus used in his case against me. Quite ironically, austinmcc was the one who made it, and will end up being what I believe will be a very strong scumread against the 2 remaining mafia.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnX9O6cujxVmdFlvZkdqR1g0Qlh3d2dSaENrdW9DblE#gid=0
Notice the 2 people WHO NEVER VOTED ANACLETUS That would be austin (the person who made the chart) and Mufaa (The confirmed scum)
I believe that mafia told Anacletus to vote for himself after the rest of the town started having major suspicions against him, to look more "innocent" or "new" to mafia. Once votes started coming in for BKE, he switched his vote over, to finally secure the lynch of a confirmed town. Those are not my words, however. Those are HIS. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:43 Anacletus wrote: I'll be real with you man, I don't actually have *that* much of an inclination to believing that you are mafia. It's just that it feels like it's either you or me, so I'm trying to save my own neck.
I am not without doubt of you - I just don't think that there's enough information for me to think it's worthy to hang you, but again, if it comes down to me or you, it's you... :/
I do think that others feel like you're mafia though, so that's why my vote is where it is.
I feel like it was a combined play from the scumteam to cover up an early slip by one of their own. Anacletus with his sudden change in posting style and acting like bad town, Mufaa adding to the story by posting in defence of Anacletus, all nicely wrapped up with the case made by Austin to lynch a Blue Town.
Finally, after making his "case" against me, Anacletus has simply stopped participating in anything remotely town positive. Looking through his filter of the last couple of days, they are simply one-liners and fluff posts. I get the feeling from him that I'm on the right track, and he's the one being defensive and trying to get people to vote me.
This is my current thoughts on what is going on. Feel free to discuss. Should Anacletus feel like defending himself, here is what I want to know:
1) Why did the 1 of the 2 people who didn't vote you day 1 turn up scum? 2) Why was a confirmed mafia defending you up until his shot? 3) Why have you only posted a case on me, when there are 2 mafia left? What happens if you get your wish and I'm lynched today? What happens if I flip Town?
## Vote Anacletus
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I have a suspicion about who our vigi was. Maybe I'm just imagining things, but if you were the vigi, find some way to get it out there.
Okay, so I read back through things looking at BioSC and his interactions with others. The most notable thing that pops out to me, and, granted, it's not a lot to go on, is that both dahdum and dark were suspcious of BioSC. They've both flipped town.
dahdum started off thinking bio was scummy. Supported a Bio or Brood lynch D1, voted Bio quickly D2. There's not a ton there though, mainly talk of him playing passively and then getting defensive when challenged. My own thoughts kind of support that, Anac and Dark both suspicious of Bio D1 and he then turns around on them and is suspicious of them.
Darkfire starts out suspicious of Bio for semantics, which I don't find particularly convincing. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. . Also feels that Bio has been "hyper defensive" + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 12:16 Darkfirex5 wrote:
SNIPPED
BioSC filter my last few posts, i havent been talking about you. I've been trying to look into Mufaa and dahdum. I've shifted away from you and i still want Analcetus to be lynched becuase if he pops mafia, it will be easy to track who saved him from the first lynch. In response to you directly, I was on edge with you being mafia but i began thinking you were protown. Again recently I've begun looking at dahdum and Mufaa. Also i was trying to poke at your defensive play, becuase you seem to always respond hyper defensive. I was trying to get more information out of you by knowing that i had an FOS on you. But now, moving ahead i think the biggest target is mufaa dahdun and Anacletus. I'll look to analyze material when i get back from school. . As his posts go on though, he seems less suspicious of Bio as I read it? + Show Spoiler +On May 15 2012 07:55 Darkfirex5 wrote:
SNIPPED
With this i now find Dahdum townie as well because though he had suspicions on BioSC and Anacletus. I havent been able to clear BioSC though which is why i dont think that dahdum is more likely to be mafia. I think that dahdum as well is pro town more so. WIth Mufaa though he has waited twice now to join a majority vote. Well shit now, i think mufaa is townie as well, debatably now because of the defense on Anacletus. Huh well now that leaves BioSC and lurkers....
##Unvote ##Vote BioSC im hoping i gave you some insight austincc. I'm going to remain a FOS on Mufaa, but because i have this basis on Anacletus being town Mufaa seems more town pro. I'd like to know for sure though somehow because this remains on the basis that Anacletus is a townie. Meh shit i feel like i dodged your question in a way, but now rereading more and more im geting new ideas and now i feel like you will think that im voting BioSC because there is 2 votes on him. Ask it again if you feel like i didnt answer you "correctly" its hard now that i have this different insight rereading some of Mufaa's older posts during day 1 On May 15 2012 07:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: when i pop townie cause thats the way it seems, other townies look at dahdum, mufaa and Anacletus, they to me seem the most pro town. Austin is iffy look into him. I was pressuring BioSC because i thought hey why not get things roling because this could pop up as something. Welp meh i dont have a case against you Tofu but you've been chilling back for a while reading these posts <-- dont like
And again, it's not a ton to go on, but here's N1 and On May 14 2012 10:51 BioSC wrote: SNIPPED
As for whom I would like to call out,
SNIPPED
Darkfire: I still haven't gotten an answer for this post. Mind filling me in on the details? Like how you are trying to shift blame off of one of the scummiest players at the time to someone else on such a triviality?
Unvorgiven_ve: Where the hell have you been, and why is it that the person the mafia hit has you #1 on their list?
DahDum: I've still got my reasons for suspecting you, and having Brood call you out only to not respond for 1.5 days adds to the suspicion.
There IS some defensiveness there, and I don't really have a leg to stand on and make the argument "He suspected townies, therefore he's mafia," but 2/3 of his suspicions have flipped town. Firm you seem to pick something up there, during D2, somewhere on P19 (too lazy to find now), you note that you think dahdum/dark are mafia because they team up and attack Bio.
I don't get any giant read off of his filter though. It does feel a little defensive. I mean, very defensive. Until his most recent post, EVERYTHING was dahdum/dark/anac, except for the one time he called out dahdum/dark/unforgiven. I don't love the way that feels.
At the moment then, I guess I'm on the fence as well. I see him very suspicious of townies, but it's tough for me to get a scumread off that when I've been suspicious of townies. I don't love that he's not really contributing, just being defensive and OMGUSing. Wouldn't hate a lynch on him, could maybe get behind it. I want to keep looking around.
Another consideration is that a Bio lynch maybe tells us something about Anac. Seems like if Bio flipped scum, Anac would feel more townie. That's some serious commitment if Anac was pushing Bio so hard D2 and then D3, perhaps a bit too long and too focused to be a bus?
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@Austin:
I'm not the vigi. I also have a suspicion, and that it is whomever randomly got the power from our modkilled townie way back when. Honestly a roleclaim to that vigi would be a huge discussion point, and shouldn't be done lightly.
Also, with regards to DahDum, yeah, I admit I was suspicious of him. Obviously, I was wrong, but I had never voted for him, only the person I found scummy at the time. As to Anac/Dahdum, I've responded as well as I thought I could have to Anac's case against me, and I feel like mine against him is stronger.
I wish I could comment on Dahdum, but he never actually laid out anything significant. Honestly I believe he was just on the wrong track, and simply bandwagoning.
What do you think of my post towards Anacletus?
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What I'd really love, since we only have 24 hours left, is some frigging contribution from our lurkers. One of the main reasons I'm not set on Bio is that we've still got so much inactivity. So, to everyone not contributing, KNOCK IT OFF. You're hurting town here. We NEED discussion. There are enough people rarely contributing that you can't even all be mafia...so someone out there is town and actively making this difficult. Time zones, mother's day, all of that contributes to absences, but you've got to help out here.
So. Get active. Help us out. Otherwise I really just want to policy lynch you over Bio, and that's a terrible mindset.
HEY LURKERS
Unforgiven + Show Spoiler +Unforgiven seems to pop on once a cycle, post a single post or just a tiny flurry of them, then disappear. I have no clue what On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc means, so feel free to explain that. You voted for yourself D1, then swapped to Brood. You voted for yourself D2. Your main scumread seems to be...yourself. What were you right about? You mentioned mufaa a few times, but every time you mentioned him you ALSO mentioned about 900 other players. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 00:21 Unforgiven_ve wrote:My god Anacletus, of course i give you some credit, but i dont undertand ANYTHING you post, your contributions makes no sense, they are contradictory and change everytime someone points his finger at you. You need to understand this is a TEAM GAME, you just cant convince people saying " My plan so far is more of a cluster-fuck spider-web of ideas written in a language that I don't know." are you really THAT bad of a player? if you turn mafia im gonna laugh, really. I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information, I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post everybody already posted and im still waiting, and posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8) and being under the radar in general)Im gonna wait a couple more hours to cast my vote, i want to see if everyone goes active and chatty and the end of the day On May 12 2012 07:12 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I think anacletus did us not good playing the way he has, i want to belive its a mafia "strategy" but its just too risky(¿?), after reading austinmcc and seeing Anacletus doesnt represent a thread anymore ( im sure this will strike us some other way in the future), if BKE flips blue/town as Shaopi says, we are at 0 again thanks to Anacletus. I repeat, i dont like to be guided this easily, but i see a case, i see reasons, and i see lack of response from the accused party. I have made up my mind after readin all posts and seeing RKE lacks of defense after the high pressure...also, this is golden Mufaa, it just raised my "interest" on you.+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
.... and i agree 100% on your jailbraker FOS as i stated hours before, pointing a friend maybe?... but i think we should wait a little more. ##Vote BroodKingEXE On May 13 2012 08:31 Unforgiven_ve wrote: My list in case i die.
suspicious of mufaa, jailbreaker, crossfire because at the time they hadn't really posted
suspicious of anacletus because of his play
suspicious of shaopi because at the time he posted a big list of names with his opinions but nothing really happened yet so there wasn't much to base that on On May 16 2012 13:23 Unforgiven_ve wrote:uh? i came in to check the night post and i hasnt been made? My top 3: austincc Anacletus Dahdum/Mufaa/Hyaach maybe bio/crossfire ... lol, thats all of us but me i guess First post you suspect Mufaa, but also Anac, Jailbreaker, and ShiaoPi. Second post Mufaa raises your interest, but you throw your vote on Brood. In the third post, you're suspicious of 5 players, half the non-you players. In the last post, you seem to be suspicious of SIX players now. Can you narrow down your reads? I don't care if you narrow them down to me and want to tunnel me all day, I'll respond. But we need you to contribute, because you haven't really given us ANYTHING in the last ~96 hours.
Crossfire + Show Spoiler +You were gone all D2. N2 you pop in 2 hours before deadline, and do respond to my case. I appreciate that. But now you've dipped out for another 24+ hours. We're talking 2 actual posts over the last...96 hours.
I'm not holding the Probulous comment against you anymore. I got an answer to one of my PMs, and not to the other, so I can believe that Prob is just a bum and Adam is a way better coach. You're rightfully suspicious of Anac. But other than that, who?
Heck, what about other stuff -- Why do you think the night kills have been ShiaoPi and dahdum? What made them good targets for mafia? Why not kill Firm last night? Come in here, contribute, even if it's just answering that stuff.
Hyaach + Show Spoiler +Hyaach we basically haven't heard from you since N1. Again, 96 hours. Your suspects from N1 -- On May 12 2012 12:49 Hyaach wrote: I will just say this out now.
High on my suspect list : dahdum Anacletus Mufaa ShiaoPi
and checks on Anacletus will be pointless as i've said his been claiming his town so far and could very well be mafia godfather. they appears innocent to checks. Self voted to appear as a last ditch effort to claim townie because the case on him was quite big. Kept insisting he wasn't sure voting BKE was a good choice. Then switch vote to BKE the moment people started pushing and BKE's case seemed lost. How does that change your reads? Heck, we know Mufaa was godfather, so that means Anac can't be gf (Unforgiven, don't get on mah nuts about this, go look at the way the roles are picked and none of the scumteam options have multiple gfs). If the possibility of him being a gf is out, how do you read him?
Hooray. Santy Claus has brought presents to all the lurkers. I'm going to keep calling you out all through D3. I keep focusing on people who have posted scummy content, and they keep flipping green. Maybe it's time I focus instead on people WITHOUT much content.
At the moment, I mainly support a lynch on: (1) Crossfire (2) BioSC (3) Unforgiven/Hyaach
Order subject to change over the course of the day, but that's my current mindset.
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I'm lurking with cause. I feel like the town is doing a good job right now, and normally when I try to say something all shit breaks loose, so I figured that since you guys are on a good track I might as well let this go.
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On May 17 2012 09:26 Anacletus wrote: I'm lurking with cause. I feel like the town is doing a good job right now, and normally when I try to say something all shit breaks loose, so I figured that since you guys are on a good track I might as well let this go.
How is town on a good track again? Since the day started, we've had 6/7 people post. We have 3 votes for 3 different people. Most of the people having posted a one sentence "I'm going to look through filters." or "Here's my vote, see you when night comes"
This is NOT a good track if you are belonging to town! The only 2 people that are contributing to any kind of discussion are me and austin, but we are both discussing 2 different things, while NO ONE has commented on ANYTHING posted by either of us, or posted anything meaningful towards whom they think is the next scumtarget!
This game would be a complete farce if austin were to be lynched simply by being The first person to be voted for!
You still haven't addressed my comments made towards you, Anacletus. I would appreciate if you didn't bury them.
Also, Austin: I want to know your opinion on my case towards Anacletus. You've given a read on everyone but him recently. I want to know people's thoughts about Mufaa's actions this game. Town FINALLY hits a Scum, and it seems like no one is going through his filter and looking for patterns but myself. If you believe that Anacletus is scum, why would you try and vote lurkers and not someone you believe is scum? I want some discussion, and if its going to only be with you, so be it.
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EBWOP: I don't want this to get buried. If you think its a bad read, that I'm wrong, or that I'm right, WHATEVER, TELL ME. I want some discussion on something, whether it be this or something else.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 07:07 BioSC wrote:Lets just pause for one second. Are we really going to vote with someone who multiple confirmed townies have called out since day 1, has had inconsistent posting patterns, and is now tunneling against the person who has been calling him out since day 2? Whomever shot Mufaa, thank you. I wish I could take credit for it, but I can't. Now, we can finally look at the filter of a CONFIRMED scum, and try to draw some conclusions from it. This post in particular stood out to me: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
Austin's point about how even if Ana is scum he's lost so much credibility he can't make a push on someone d2. If he doesn't improve his play we might have to take him out later, but right now if we lynch him we won't gain any real info. Everyone has been on to him at some point, so if he flips town we gain almost nothing from this since his posts lack any content. If he flips scum the scum would lose a player, but that honestly might help them if he really is scum and is playing like this.
If we lynch someone else and they flip town, we can see who has been focused on them, who stayed out of the discussion on that person and we at least have some good info to discuss over d2. The odds are just as good of anyone else flipping scum, so I would rather flip someone who would give us info instead of giving scum the option to hide behind the excuse that Ana was such a bad townie, how could everyone not vote for him.
I think BroodKingEXE needs to post some content instead of one liners and just agreeing with people as it comes off scummy, but he isn't my first choice at the moment.
Jailbreaker- Why haven't you posted in the last 3 and a half pages? You commented early on about how much aggression there was but you haven't made a single case, even hinted at having a read, or contributed to the town in any way. Why are you so content to just sit back and watch everyone else debate with the deadline so close?
##Vote Jailbreaker
This isn't a permanent vote. I think Jailbreaker is the best lynch so far. If no one else feels this way, I will swing my vote to BroodKingEXE to get some info from the lynch as I do think his actual content will give us something to compare to everyone else d2 once we see his flip. We know for a fact that Mufaa was scum. Therefore, HE knows what alignment Anacletus is. If Ana was town, why would the scum team switch votes to anyone? Town lynches a townie, and scum get to shoot someone, instantly putting them in the best possible situation. The only situation i can see is that the scumteam made a last minute ploy to save Anacletus, and it worked. The suspicions I have are further strengthened by the same vote list that Anacletus used in his case against me. Quite ironically, austinmcc was the one who made it, and will end up being what I believe will be a very strong scumread against the 2 remaining mafia. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnX9O6cujxVmdFlvZkdqR1g0Qlh3d2dSaENrdW9DblE#gid=0Notice the 2 people WHO NEVER VOTED ANACLETUS That would be austin (the person who made the chart) and Mufaa (The confirmed scum) I believe that mafia told Anacletus to vote for himself after the rest of the town started having major suspicions against him, to look more "innocent" or "new" to mafia. Once votes started coming in for BKE, he switched his vote over, to finally secure the lynch of a confirmed town. Those are not my words, however. Those are HIS. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:43 Anacletus wrote: I'll be real with you man, I don't actually have *that* much of an inclination to believing that you are mafia. It's just that it feels like it's either you or me, so I'm trying to save my own neck.
I am not without doubt of you - I just don't think that there's enough information for me to think it's worthy to hang you, but again, if it comes down to me or you, it's you... :/
I do think that others feel like you're mafia though, so that's why my vote is where it is. I feel like it was a combined play from the scumteam to cover up an early slip by one of their own. Anacletus with his sudden change in posting style and acting like bad town, Mufaa adding to the story by posting in defence of Anacletus, all nicely wrapped up with the case made by Austin to lynch a Blue Town. Finally, after making his "case" against me, Anacletus has simply stopped participating in anything remotely town positive. Looking through his filter of the last couple of days, they are simply one-liners and fluff posts. I get the feeling from him that I'm on the right track, and he's the one being defensive and trying to get people to vote me. This is my current thoughts on what is going on. Feel free to discuss. Should Anacletus feel like defending himself, here is what I want to know: 1) Why did the 1 of the 2 people who didn't vote you day 1 turn up scum? 2) Why was a confirmed mafia defending you up until his shot? 3) Why have you only posted a case on me, when there are 2 mafia left? What happens if you get your wish and I'm lynched today? What happens if I flip Town? ## Vote Anacletus
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On May 17 2012 09:50 BioSC wrote:EBWOP: I don't want this to get buried. If you think its a bad read, that I'm wrong, or that I'm right, WHATEVER, TELL ME. I want some discussion on something, whether it be this or something else. + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 07:07 BioSC wrote:Lets just pause for one second. Are we really going to vote with someone who multiple confirmed townies have called out since day 1, has had inconsistent posting patterns, and is now tunneling against the person who has been calling him out since day 2? Whomever shot Mufaa, thank you. I wish I could take credit for it, but I can't. Now, we can finally look at the filter of a CONFIRMED scum, and try to draw some conclusions from it. This post in particular stood out to me: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
Austin's point about how even if Ana is scum he's lost so much credibility he can't make a push on someone d2. If he doesn't improve his play we might have to take him out later, but right now if we lynch him we won't gain any real info. Everyone has been on to him at some point, so if he flips town we gain almost nothing from this since his posts lack any content. If he flips scum the scum would lose a player, but that honestly might help them if he really is scum and is playing like this.
If we lynch someone else and they flip town, we can see who has been focused on them, who stayed out of the discussion on that person and we at least have some good info to discuss over d2. The odds are just as good of anyone else flipping scum, so I would rather flip someone who would give us info instead of giving scum the option to hide behind the excuse that Ana was such a bad townie, how could everyone not vote for him.
I think BroodKingEXE needs to post some content instead of one liners and just agreeing with people as it comes off scummy, but he isn't my first choice at the moment.
Jailbreaker- Why haven't you posted in the last 3 and a half pages? You commented early on about how much aggression there was but you haven't made a single case, even hinted at having a read, or contributed to the town in any way. Why are you so content to just sit back and watch everyone else debate with the deadline so close?
##Vote Jailbreaker
This isn't a permanent vote. I think Jailbreaker is the best lynch so far. If no one else feels this way, I will swing my vote to BroodKingEXE to get some info from the lynch as I do think his actual content will give us something to compare to everyone else d2 once we see his flip. We know for a fact that Mufaa was scum. Therefore, HE knows what alignment Anacletus is. If Ana was town, why would the scum team switch votes to anyone? Town lynches a townie, and scum get to shoot someone, instantly putting them in the best possible situation. The only situation i can see is that the scumteam made a last minute ploy to save Anacletus, and it worked. The suspicions I have are further strengthened by the same vote list that Anacletus used in his case against me. Quite ironically, austinmcc was the one who made it, and will end up being what I believe will be a very strong scumread against the 2 remaining mafia. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnX9O6cujxVmdFlvZkdqR1g0Qlh3d2dSaENrdW9DblE#gid=0Notice the 2 people WHO NEVER VOTED ANACLETUS That would be austin (the person who made the chart) and Mufaa (The confirmed scum) I believe that mafia told Anacletus to vote for himself after the rest of the town started having major suspicions against him, to look more "innocent" or "new" to mafia. Once votes started coming in for BKE, he switched his vote over, to finally secure the lynch of a confirmed town. Those are not my words, however. Those are HIS. + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:43 Anacletus wrote: I'll be real with you man, I don't actually have *that* much of an inclination to believing that you are mafia. It's just that it feels like it's either you or me, so I'm trying to save my own neck.
I am not without doubt of you - I just don't think that there's enough information for me to think it's worthy to hang you, but again, if it comes down to me or you, it's you... :/
I do think that others feel like you're mafia though, so that's why my vote is where it is. I feel like it was a combined play from the scumteam to cover up an early slip by one of their own. Anacletus with his sudden change in posting style and acting like bad town, Mufaa adding to the story by posting in defence of Anacletus, all nicely wrapped up with the case made by Austin to lynch a Blue Town. Finally, after making his "case" against me, Anacletus has simply stopped participating in anything remotely town positive. Looking through his filter of the last couple of days, they are simply one-liners and fluff posts. I get the feeling from him that I'm on the right track, and he's the one being defensive and trying to get people to vote me. This is my current thoughts on what is going on. Feel free to discuss. Should Anacletus feel like defending himself, here is what I want to know: 1) Why did the 1 of the 2 people who didn't vote you day 1 turn up scum? 2) Why was a confirmed mafia defending you up until his shot? 3) Why have you only posted a case on me, when there are 2 mafia left? What happens if you get your wish and I'm lynched today? What happens if I flip Town? ## Vote Anacletus
Yeah I think it is a great synopsis that makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways, it's pretty condemning evidence at me. I'm not mafia though, so I don't know what to say. Also, pointing out good information doesn't make me less suspicious of you, which is why I have voted for you and I have seen others suspicious of you so I am just going to let them connect the dots for a bit.
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Bio my honest answer right now is...
Sweet jesus I don't want to look through his filter.
Any time I start, I see myself defending him on D1 as noob town. Everything on D1, everything since, I can still read as noob town or as scum. I was actually serious when I said he was so questionable that he'd have no chance to drive things in later days and cause chaos, and I've stuck by that, basically skipping over his posts (and also, to some extent, cases on him because I have been refusing to read him).
Which is, frankly, not helpful. I got through your filter and a full gameread, but didn't get around to his because I seriously don't even want to wade in. I will make myself do some looking tonight, but I will probably mainly be reading your case and others' cases on him, because I just start to confuse myself when I look at his filter.
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On May 17 2012 10:04 austinmcc wrote: Bio my honest answer right now is...
Sweet jesus I don't want to look through his filter.
Any time I start, I see myself defending him on D1 as noob town. Everything on D1, everything since, I can still read as noob town or as scum. I was actually serious when I said he was so questionable that he'd have no chance to drive things in later days and cause chaos, and I've stuck by that, basically skipping over his posts (and also, to some extent, cases on him because I have been refusing to read him).
Which is, frankly, not helpful. I got through your filter and a full gameread, but didn't get around to his because I seriously don't even want to wade in. I will make myself do some looking tonight, but I will probably mainly be reading your case and others' cases on him, because I just start to confuse myself when I look at his filter.
Exactly, I'm just ignored, carry on.
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On May 17 2012 10:04 austinmcc wrote: Bio my honest answer right now is...
Sweet jesus I don't want to look through his filter.
Any time I start, I see myself defending him on D1 as noob town. Everything on D1, everything since, I can still read as noob town or as scum. I was actually serious when I said he was so questionable that he'd have no chance to drive things in later days and cause chaos, and I've stuck by that, basically skipping over his posts (and also, to some extent, cases on him because I have been refusing to read him).
Which is, frankly, not helpful. I got through your filter and a full gameread, but didn't get around to his because I seriously don't even want to wade in. I will make myself do some looking tonight, but I will probably mainly be reading your case and others' cases on him, because I just start to confuse myself when I look at his filter.
I know, but honestly his filter isn't that bad. Most of it is the flabbergasted postings from day 1 then the case on me. Like I said, recently his posts are just fluff. The reads are there, and frankly it's lazy to just assume he won't make a push on anyone. He did manage to get 3 people to vote for me Day 2. I don't want people to just ignore him because of the shoddy play. It could be what the scum planned for, as meta as that sounds.
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Hey Bio, what do you think of austin? Do you think he is scummy for leading the lynch on two townies? Do his actions seem contradictory to you? Why or why not?
I'll provide my thoughts after BioSC responds.
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So, Anacletus. Time to start looking at you.
D1
Lots of votes being thrown around. Lots of...contradictory votes. I'm only going to pull a few things out, but the voting and the suspicions are clearly funky. Skipping over an early vote or two, we've got - + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:21 Anacletus wrote:SNIPPED ##UnvoteMy personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself. ##Vote AnacletusWell, this could turn out interesting Votes himself, but thinks BioSC is mafia. 6 hours later + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:57 Anacletus wrote:
SNIPPED
I actually don't agree with you guys in your suspicions of BioSC being mafia. I also think that Dahdum and Mufaa are also citizens as well.
My best guess as to who is mafia would be BKE I guess, but I'm not too certain which is why I haven't really raised my voice in this instance. . Now Bio isn't mafia. Then + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 06:43 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:57 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Anac. The first one does make sense. I could be town and the Mafia could be letting you push me, because they know I am town. They don't even need to take ownership for their vote and could keep their vote on Analect. People who vote for me can be on either side. Bussing or wagoning are options for mafia. What about my response doesn't convince you? I'll be real with you man, I don't actually have *that* much of an inclination to believing that you are mafia. It's just that it feels like it's either you or me, so I'm trying to save my own neck. I am not without doubt of you - I just don't think that there's enough information for me to think it's worthy to hang you, but again, if it comes down to me or you, it's you... :/ I do think that others feel like you're mafia though, so that's why my vote is where it is. .
If i just read this, it continues to look townish to me. All those vote swaps, the odd logic, you're guaranteed to draw a lot of attention to yourself with that. The early post (not quoted here, but i've brought it up before) where he mentions playing games before does concern me. But just from this, I don't want to get super WIFOM-y and think whether mafia knows that drawing attention is bad, so they do that, etc. I have to read this day as townie.
N1 Nothing much here.
D2 Anac leads off with his initial case on Bio. + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 07:40 Anacletus wrote:SNIPPED My biggest suspicions lie with BioSC and FirmTofu - I truly believe them to be mafia and would like for one of them to get hung today, and here is my reasoning why: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#190This post by Tofu not only distracts from any points made against BioSC but further asserts cases made against me and darkfire - and again my logic being that I know that I am not mafia so I can assume that the claims made against myself are baseless as his only points seem to be based off of what darkfire is saying. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#183BioSC also makes excruciatingly similar posts to Tofu - it's almost as if they are working together! And my biggest reasoning to vote for them is because of how they both switched from my band wagon vote to vote for BKE after several times trying to seal a vote for me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=17#326My opinions on fluff posts using "we" in town situations are also pretty revealing with one's alignment. ##Vote BioSCHere's my vote - I strongly urge you guys to vote with me on this as I truly believe my synopsis to be accurate. . I read the making of the case as a townie move. D1 we basically said, "We're leaving you alive but think you're scummy. Better contribute a lot, or you're next, and heck...even if you contribute you may be next!" At the very least, it shows he's put together more than just some odd reason for hopping his vote around like D1. That feels townie.
Anac ends D2 by finding BioSC, FirmTofu, and I mafia. Still reading this as townie. Guy voted, stuck to it, and although he tunneled BioSC and they had their back and forth all day, it feels like an effort to adjust his posting from D1, which we were all voting him for/suspicious of/etc. Sure, could still be headgames, but now it does feel like making a case, sticking with it, trying to bring people on board with it. The last post is odd, but I read it as frustration? Continues to make those scumreads during N2.
D3 Pushing Bio.
So here's my read. I'm finding him town. Town or super-far-down-the-rabbit-hole scum, and that seems too outlandish. Bio you made your case, but it's tough for me to read that and find anac scummy off of it, because you're basing it on my alignment. I'm not scum, and so there was no magical scum play to save Anac. If you throw out Mufaa/anac/me being the scumteam, at least part of your case falls apart. Can't agree with your read because of that.
Anac. D2 and N2 you thought Firm/Bio/Me was the scumteam. Mufaa flipped red. There's been some more discussion from the rest of us. So: - How did Mufaa's flip change your team? Does he just replace one of us or does that alter your whole read?
- Because i'm actually really concerned with this lurker issue, how are you feeling about the lurking? IF 2/3 of Bio/Firm/Me are scum, that means that we've got 2 seriously lurking townies. Does that sit alright with you?
Firm, jump in here. I still have a town read on you, but everyone's a bit suspicious at this point. I think you're sitting back and trying to get reads from everyone before wading in, but we're down to under 24 hours, have three players lurking heavily, and one COULD read your actions as trying to figure out which buttons to push and threads to pull as scum leading up to the D3 lynch. You've asked Anac about Bio, me about Bio, Bio about me. That's nice, but we're all active. No pressure for the lurkers? Thoughts on the lurkers? I can't seriously believe at this point that we've got 3 townies sitting on their hands, and if we do, we're kind of dead anyway.
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On May 17 2012 10:55 FirmTofu wrote: Hey Bio, what do you think of austin? Do you think he is scummy for leading the lynch on two townies? Do his actions seem contradictory to you? Why or why not?
I'll provide my thoughts after BioSC responds.
Perhaps I'm just new, but why would you need to wait to post your read on austin after hearing mine? Why don't you just post what you are thinking? Help get discussions going?
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On May 17 2012 12:11 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 10:55 FirmTofu wrote: Hey Bio, what do you think of austin? Do you think he is scummy for leading the lynch on two townies? Do his actions seem contradictory to you? Why or why not?
I'll provide my thoughts after BioSC responds. Perhaps I'm just new, but why would you need to wait to post your read on austin after hearing mine? Why don't you just post what you are thinking? Help get discussions going? Answer the question please. Why are you skirting around such an innocuous and harmless question? I will post what I am thinking in due time.
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I've read it as:
If FirmTofu town: Wants to ensure that if we're mafia we're not sheeping his own thoughts, so trying to get ours out first and then decide if he agrees disagrees. This way we can't just go, "Yeah I think so too." Still takes a decent number of votes to lynch if we've got two candidates, but if we still have inactivity, then Firm voting for someone because of his own reasoning and 1-2 mafia votes on top of that basically means a lynch.
If FirmTofu mafia: Wants all the reads ever to just start screwing with us. Allows for a little more manipulation, lets mafia team see where to poke throughout the day. Also allows him to sheep us.
Can read it either way.
Off to bed for now, hopefully at least a little activity will occur overnight? You know, like CROSSFIRE, HYAACH, AND UNFORGIVEN posting?
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I'm not skirting. I wanted to know why you need to conditionally give out your reads. You have been doing this since late last night cycle and into this day. Withholding information during night I can understand, but during the day? When there are few people actually contributing? We need all the information we can get, be it town reads or mafia misleads, and you can't seem to be bothered with the discussion?
As you asked, here it goes.
His total sum actions to me, came as scummy. If you bothered to read my Anacletus post, there are reasons in there about why, but for brevity's sake, here are a few.
Led/contributed to lynches on 2 townies, one being a blue. Night 1, I was inclined to believe that it was an honest mistake. I changed my vote based on his case and BKE's actions that day, as did many others. Looking at his voting history doesn't exactly help him in that regard, something even he has stated.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 08:18 austinmcc wrote:That, and so many other questions I know I tunneled him and drove that wagon, but as the day kept going his responses just looked worse and worse. Time for some rereading and a hard look at how votes moved.
Also, with him and the confirmed scum Mufaa never voting for Anacletus, someone I believe to be scum as well, it doesn't read highly towards town to me.
With everything that has happened, It's tough to just toss it away as being unlucky. Coincidences usually happen once or twice. Multiple times, well, that means there is a pattern.
So if you want my read, there it is. I feel he's scummy.
Now. Back to YOU. Again, why do you feel the need to withhold information from the town, asking for others' input before giving your own? That comes off as scummy to me. It comes off as you fishing for information to make the best case against someone, so you can vote in the best interest of your team. That shouldn't be a town strategy. Town, during the day, should be sharing as much information as they can, to make the best decision possible, especially considering that we are winding down with # of people and the obvious # of lurkers we have in this game.
Your last 5 posts have been nothing but fishing for information from people who were posting at the time. Why is that?
You wanted a list of people whom I believed to be scummy. Here it is, updated since the Mufaa shot.
Mufaa, Anacletus, Austin/FirmTofu
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On May 14 2012 12:18 FirmTofu wrote: If Anacletus flips mafia, austinmcc is nearly certainly mafia. Everything points to it. Buddying is already evident in Anacletus' posts but I'm going to read more to find a substantial argument in favor of this.
Vote to hang me, then you'll get whatever information you're after.
On May 14 2012 10:51 BioSC wrote: @Analectus: Who did you get to write this for you?
I mashed random keys.
On May 17 2012 07:07 BioSC wrote: I believe that mafia told Anacletus to vote for himself after the rest of the town started having major suspicions against him, to look more "innocent" or "new" to mafia. Once votes started coming in for BKE, he switched his vote over, to finally secure the lynch of a confirmed town. Those are not my words, however. Those are HIS.
Good points, I'd hang me as well.
On May 17 2012 09:48 BioSC wrote: You still haven't addressed my comments made towards you, Anacletus. I would appreciate if you didn't bury them.
Not burying anything, just hang me,
This is my current thoughts on what is going on. Feel free to discuss. Should Anacletus feel like defending himself, here is what I want to know:
On May 17 2012 07:07 BioSC wrote: 1) Why did the 1 of the 2 people who didn't vote you day 1 turn up scum? 2) Why was a confirmed mafia defending you up until his shot? 3) Why have you only posted a case on me, when there are 2 mafia left? What happens if you get your wish and I'm lynched today? What happens if I flip Town?
How the fuck do I answer why people do what they did? I can only answer why I've been after you, and it's because I think you're mafia.
On May 17 2012 10:04 austinmcc wrote: I was actually serious when I said he was so questionable that he'd have no chance to drive things in later days and cause chaos, and I've stuck by that, basically skipping over his posts (and also, to some extent, cases on him because I have been refusing to read him).
Huh, well how about that.
So, yeah. I did make what I considered a good analysis post against BioSC, but I think he was the only one to read it, as he was the only one to address it, or even mention it's existence.
So with that in mind, BioSC has me convinced, I must be mafia. He's made a pretty convincing case as is.
##Unvote ##Vote Anacletus
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Anacletus, you aren't helping my voting yourself and it isn't winning you any town points. It just makes you look like a self-centered brat that doesn't want to take the time to defend himself in the face of an accusation and then wants to go, "I told you so!" when you flip town. I want you to unvote yourself right now and start playing the game because you aren't contributing anything of value yet.
BioSC has convinced me that he's mafia, I'd advise you to switch your vote back onto him. Mega-post incoming.
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On May 17 2012 13:38 FirmTofu wrote: Anacletus, you aren't helping my voting yourself and it isn't winning you any town points. It just makes you look like a self-centered brat that doesn't want to take the time to defend himself in the face of an accusation and then wants to go, "I told you so!" when you flip town. I want you to unvote yourself right now and start playing the game because you aren't contributing anything of value yet.
BioSC has convinced me that he's mafia, I'd advise you to switch your vote back onto him. Mega-post incoming.
I'm not giving up on trying to win. I just figure by the way you guys are playing that I'm more of a liability than anything. So why not just get this done now for a higher chance of winning later.
Not defending one's self doesn't equate to how one acts.
And thank you for calling me a self-centered brat, I will be sure to compile this alongside the other ad hominem that I've receiced, like how my posts aren't worth reading, or how mafia writes my posts for me because I must be too stupid to write them myself.
And this is getting off-topic, so I'll stop defending myself from baseless attacks now.
[Hr]
I'm leaving my vote where it is until I have substantial reason to do otherwise.
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I didn't call you a self-centered brat. I said your actions make you look like one. It wasn't an ad hominem attack. To be clear, I think you are town and I do not see any benefit in lynching you aorn. Please unvote yourself before the two mafia decide to take advantage of the fact that you are voting yourself. You don't have to vote BioSC, just take off the vote on yourself for the time being, thanks.
Back to writing megapost.
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Im really sorry for no posting much, but real life has me covered. Im lurking not because i want, just because i cant post. i just came home and the first thing i do is check this thread.
now, anacletus. this is just getting ridiculous...even if you are a town, you are playing for the mafia team. Im convinced you are mafia, but still, theres someone over you on my list, i stand by my vote.
Austin: + Show Spoiler +I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information,
you MISSED to quote THIS POST You can see im not the only one suspecting of Mufaa, im just not buying that kind of "clean play", no time to play, a couple of long depth analysis post, go back to lurk and come whit another "great" analysis.
Till D2 i just fell I HAD no real reasons to start a case against someone. I gave my reason of why voting for myself at first on D1, i just had no read on anyone besides Anacletus, and i fell for your analysis about BKE. D2 is another thing, real life just happened.
and i gave you my top 2 suspects, im just indecisive over my 3rd vote!
My top 3: + Show Spoiler + austincc Anacletus Dahdum/Mufaa/Hyaach maybe bio/crossfire
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you dont see me posting LONG DEPTH ANALYSIS because we havent had much to work on, besides lame reads based of a couple posts, i want to base my suspicions on actions, how people behave and voting patterns. (i confess, i thought this game were the kind in wich you get subtle clues and histories for night actions.)
i know everyone "wants" to be the town leader or just enhance his investigation skill, but come one, we cant get the ball rolling just posting a couple lines and attacking someone at the end of the day.
So, Austin, are you a townie? tell me who is your top one read.
also, Dont start whit the big letters please, i see that as a sign of desperation.
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ebwop: i will try to log in tomorrow, i promise
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First, nice shot vig. Second, I need to get to bed after this, so I only have time to respond to your questions, Austin. His quote is spoiler below.
+ Show Spoiler +You were gone all D2. N2 you pop in 2 hours before deadline, and do respond to my case. I appreciate that. But now you've dipped out for another 24+ hours. We're talking 2 actual posts over the last...96 hours.
I'm not holding the Probulous comment against you anymore. I got an answer to one of my PMs, and not to the other, so I can believe that Prob is just a bum and Adam is a way better coach. You're rightfully suspicious of Anac. But other than that, who?
Heck, what about other stuff -- Why do you think the night kills have been ShiaoPi and dahdum? What made them good targets for mafia? Why not kill Firm last night? Come in here, contribute, even if it's just answering that stuff.
I'll address your night kill issue first. I believe I mentioned this before, but I don't like speculating about actions that mafia have taken. We have no idea why they were killed, only mafia does. Speculating why can lead down endless rabbit holes of they killed so and so for this reason so that makes this person guilty. What if they are tricking us knowing that we will think that? But we know that they know that we know taht...
Basically, nothing good comes of speculating about those night kills. It creates unnecessary distractions.
As for my current reads, right now my top one is anacletus. He isn't doing anything and admits it. This doesn't help us as town. I don't know how he has survived this long without be lynched to be honest.
Reading through Mufaa's filter he continually defends Anac D1 and does his weird vote on Jailbreaker, but then switches it to Brood with little reasoning (I talked about this in an earlier post if any wants to see my thougthts on it) Looking at the rest of his posts, he only is suspicious of Dahdum and Darkfire + Show Spoiler + On May 15 2012 02:34 Mufaa wrote: Ok, here we go.
Strongest reads for me so far are Dahdum and Darkfire. . From all this you can see he was "suspicious" of jail, brood, dark, and dahum, all confirmed town. But, he defends anac a lot Day 1. Coincidence? I think not. This just makes me think even more taht Anac is scum. In his posts he bring up the notion that anac would be a useless scum because no one takes him seriously due all he's done, therefore he isn't scum. This is not the case. Anac is a useful scum by the virtue of being alive. He gives mafia a shorter route to victory because they need one less kill to get the sides to even amounts of players while anac is still alive.
I will post more when I have time tomorrow.
##Vote Anacletus
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##vote Austinmcc
On May 15 2012 03:00 Mufaa wrote:EBWOP: Meant to preview notpost,please disregard the darkfire portion above and use this one. Darkfirex5My suspicions of him aren't as strong, but I still have a few things I'm curious about. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. He's suspicious of BioSC, who says town/they instead of us/we. While this is something of note while building a case it isn't enough to build a case on its own. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 06:43 Darkfirex5 wrote:sorry im a student so i have school, currently i think this is a weak bandwagon forming on Anacletus. While his defense is weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. Yet the first person to begin the voting on Anacletus was Hyaach, his reasoning seemed just as weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm The start of this "bandwagon" is begining to form off of this, though Anacletus did have a poor response which made him more suspicious the voting on him lacks solid reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 03:56 FirmTofu wrote:What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it. On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets. There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly. Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start. On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing. See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble. Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead. Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!"When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia. ##vote:Anacletus I bolded the part im talking about (didnt cut out any as to take something out of context^). Another thing now is that Tofu anounces the role of being a townie, and the reason (supposidly) why Anacletus targeted him was because he knew he was town (because he was mafia)? Now im questioning then why did he target you (tofu) only because you were town. Why initiate like that on a post that seemed insignifigant. I'm building suspicion on the reasoning for starting this bandwagon on Anacletus. Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Lastly: Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:52 BioSC wrote:Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5. On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING. Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too. Now take this massive post Darkfire "contributed." The first 3/4 of it are on how this is a weak bandwagon case on Anac, with the last 1/4 on a wording dispute. This would be ok with me, except that he voted for Anac and never switched off of him. From there he posts mostly fluff until this gem. Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote: well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D How do you know ShiaoPi was on to something? Austin and Anac both offered easy suggestions to why the mafia voted the way they did other than that they wanted to silence the person was closest to discovering them (Silencing vocal townies to stiffle discussion,attempting to frame the people on his list, etc...). Why should we believe this was just a careless post and not a slip? The others I'm less suspicious of but I do have some questions for them I want to ask: BioSC- All game you've been defending yourself from reads people put on you, but your defense is always "I'm not doing mafia things, your read is invalid" or something along those lines. I'd be a lot more likely to believe you if you had contributed to finding scum at all instead of just defending yourself. Who do you think is most likely to be scum and what do you have to back it up? Hyaach- I've noticed you voted for Anac without much of an explination and you tunneled him through day1. Since then you've said you're suspicious of people but instead of providing cases, you never follow up or ask other people for their opinions on the matter. Somewhat suspicious to me and I'll be watching this. Crossfire- I'm not sure what I think of him yet. His reason for not switching to BKE was pretty solid but since then his only case has been on me for not leading a lynch on a townie when there were 2hrs left in d1. Would like to see some more content. FirmTofu- You jumped on the BKE lynch after austinmcc's post where he says "I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now." Now his most recent post d2 is questioning austinmcc for the mislynch and implying Anac and austinmcc are buddying without any real proof. I don't believe this, but it makes me wonder if you're mafia and supported the BKE lynch because you knew he was town and saw an easy d2 lynch in austin/Anac because you knew that bringing up austin's case would put pressure on austin for the mislynch. Like I said, I have nothing concrete to back that up, but it does make me suspicious of you. austinmcc- Even though he led the mislynch on BKE, his reasonings were sound and his posts have all been solid so far. I'll be watching but you seem town to me.
On May 15 2012 00:39 Mufaa wrote: @ Austin:I called him out on the safer comment too.He ignored me also.Still waiting for a response to that.
going through the thread and filters now. I'll get a post up soon.
i read through mufaa's filter. he was already listing Austinmcc as the least scummy people in his list from day one. With every other post to either push vote on people or directe FoS onto someone whose not Austinmcc/Unforgiven_ Hell, he even forgot him in his list. Has quite a few post that go along with austinmcc's flow of questioning
Austinmcc has led two wrong mislynch. yes this may not be a good reason but its two townies dead. Says he has a town read on FirmTofu. I cant figure this part out. It maybe a trap eitherway. Mufaa was placing FirmTofu as the second least suspicious. Both him and Mufaa has stated times and again that Anac is a bad townie. But I can't seem to link them three together. And i'm actually inclined to believe now that Anac is really a bad townie.
My mafia team right now is Mufaa Austinmcc and Unforgiven_
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So let's see.
Anacletus (3) - BioSC, Anacletus, Crossfire99 austinmcc (1) - unforgiven, Hyaach
Anac. I read you town, see my read on you. I can see why you'd be frustrated and want to vote yourself, but look back at D2 and N2.
On May 15 2012 08:58 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 08:52 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i need to read more camly all the post to get a 3rd suspect. Btw, now you see, op just said there were 3 mafias. another thing i was suspicious of austin It's BioSC, FirmTofu, and austincc....TT
You voted BioSC at the start of the day, so you still think he's scum. Mufaa flipped scum. How does that alter your team setup?
Firm if you want information from Bio, he's either provided it or isn't going to. Time to add something here.
Unforgiven, I'm using big letters because i AM desperate. We haven't had the full-on modkills that other newbie games have, just the one, but we've also had the warning and we have a lot of people posting just enough to not get modkilled. The more active we can get everyone, the more posts/behavior we have to analyze. My top read is still Crossfire I believe.
Hyaach, one post ago your suspicions were dahdum, Anacletus, Mufaa, ShiaoPi. Your team right now is Mufaa, Austinmcc, Unforgiven.
Can you explain your new reads a little better? I'm scummy because I've led two mislynches, fine. True. You can't figure out my townread on FirmTofu, but you don't slot him into your scum team. Does this mean you have a town read on him as well, or believe him to be mafia and don't have a slot to put him in? And why is Unforgiven on your scumteam? You weren't suspicious of him last night, what makes you suspicious of him today?
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On May 17 2012 13:38 FirmTofu wrote: BioSC has convinced me that he's mafia, I'd advise you to switch your vote back onto him. Mega-post incoming.
Would like to hear the reasoning on this one. I'm looking a little less at Crossfire right now and a little more at Bio/Hyaach. Moreover, doesn't look like there's weight behind a Crossfire or Hyaach lynch today, we seem to be focused on Anac v. Bio v. Me. Why should we be voting BioSC over one of the lurkier players, and what put you over the top from suspicious to certain?
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Ok, back this morning. I have some quick thoughts to post, then I'll get back to discussing the best lynch target.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 13:45 Anacletus wrote: And thank you for calling me a self-centered brat, I will be sure to compile this alongside the other ad hominem that I've receiced, like how my posts aren't worth reading, or how mafia writes my posts for me because I must be too stupid to write them myself.
And this is getting off-topic, so I'll stop defending myself from baseless attacks now.
[Hr]
I'm leaving my vote where it is until I have substantial reason to do otherwise.
((Out of Game: Anacletus, it appears that you have taken offense to some posts in the thread. I can only speak for myself, but if my posts came across as aggressive and insulting to your character, I sincerely, truly, apologize for that. I never meant to attack anyone's character in this game, only their arguments. If you believed me to be attacking you, again, I am sorry for that.
What I do NOT like, is people putting words into my mouth to make it seem like I am trying to insult people.
I assume the posts you are referring to are these made by me.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 10:51 BioSC wrote: @Analectus: Who did you get to write this for you? Seriously, this is night and day better than your first day posts. I would be proud of you, but for someone who's neck just came off the chopping block for crappy posts, this sure is an oddity, especially against me. I've given my reasons for shifting my vote, look through my filter for it. If your reason to vote for me is simply for NOT voting for you, then you need to look a bit deeper. NOWHERE did I say that you were too unintelligent to form your own posts. I was noting the vast difference in your posts from day 1 to now. Don't imply that I think you are unintelligent, when it simply isn't true.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2012 03:57 BioSC wrote: Your posts aren't worth addressing anymore. Your case is bad and your responses in this post confirm to me you don't actually have any idea about why you are coming after me. I say here that I believe your arguments against me aren't worth addressing, because I felt like I answered them sufficiently to not warrant repeating myself. Don't imply that I haven't read your posts. I've read each and every post made by each person in this game.
Once again, I'm sorry if my posts came across as insulting to your character. But please do not imply that I am a person that insults others over the internet. I believe I was raised better than that. /end Out of Game))
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Austin: I assume you have read Anacletus' post after you fell asleep. What do you think of that? I can only offer 2 scenarios.
1) He's a scum: After going most of the game completely untested by the town, the vig gets a miracle shot off on one of his teammates, and due to the links between him and Mufaa, combined with his position among the town, he decides to melt down and try to throw everyone off the radar of the last mafia, leaving 1 vs 6ish town.
2) He's a Townie: He's been called out since day one, had about 90% of the vote before getting saved by the lynch on BXE. Day 2, he shapes up his posting style, makes a case on me, which is largely ignored by the town at large. Day 3, combined with my constant pressure on his actions and even your admittance that you've been ignoring him, he melts down and decides that his lynch would allow the town to more completely focus on finding scum without him there to confuse us.
Which do you feel is more likely? Honestly, 2) is seeming much more likely at this point, as hard as it is for me to say. The evidence against him is staggering, I feel, and it's obviously tough for me to admit that I'm wrong. Like you said yesterday, 1) seems like it is just so far down the rabbit hole that it makes no sense, especially for a newbie game.
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On May 17 2012 13:38 FirmTofu wrote: Anacletus, you aren't helping my voting yourself and it isn't winning you any town points. It just makes you look like a self-centered brat that doesn't want to take the time to defend himself in the face of an accusation and then wants to go, "I told you so!" when you flip town. I want you to unvote yourself right now and start playing the game because you aren't contributing anything of value yet.
BioSC has convinced me that he's mafia, I'd advise you to switch your vote back onto him. Mega-post incoming.
Tofu: I've been pretty transparent in this day voting. If there is something you want me to address, go ahead and post it. I'm not worried about you making a case at me, I just want to address it and move on to actually finding scum.
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@Anacletus: Part of me would like to believe you are town, truly. You just aren't helping myself or you in that regard. Tell you what, I'm going to back off the pressure from you for a bit, because I want to show you that I want your input. You believe me to be scum, fine. Who is my scumbuddy? Who do you believe through my posts is the other scum along with Mufaa? Is there anything you believe that connects me strongly to Mufaa and who you believe to be the 3rd scum?
I want to help you help yourself. If you are truly town like you say you are, help me believe you.
Due to recent events, I can't commit my vote as I would like to. There are too many questions, and not enough answers.
##Unvote
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Bio, I read it as (2). I got called out for ignoring his posts before, rightfully so, and no, his filter wasn't as long or bad as I'd convinced myself it was. I read him town last night, and his self-vote feels legitimately frustrated to me. I wish he'd pop back in and give some thoughts on how the Mufaa flip alters his scumteam.
Your unvote takes it to 2/2 on anac and I, with his 2nd vote coming in earlier. I don't like either of those options. So right now based on the way the votes are, I'm inclined to lynch into our more lurk-y players, and finally start to back up my requests with a rope.
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I'm sorry I couldn't finish my megapost yesterday. I had a late night and some studying to do, so I'm going to get back on it now.
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On May 18 2012 04:18 austinmcc wrote: Bio, I read it as (2). I got called out for ignoring his posts before, rightfully so, and no, his filter wasn't as long or bad as I'd convinced myself it was. I read him town last night, and his self-vote feels legitimately frustrated to me. I wish he'd pop back in and give some thoughts on how the Mufaa flip alters his scumteam.
Your unvote takes it to 2/2 on anac and I, with his 2nd vote coming in earlier. I don't like either of those options. So right now based on the way the votes are, I'm inclined to lynch into our more lurk-y players, and finally start to back up my requests with a rope.
Something else I've thought about last night before I went to bed, was the possibility of us 4 discussing/bringing up topics in this day vote (You, Me, Tofu, Anacletus) are all Town, and that the remaining mafia members are the lurkers waiting to come in and swing vote whomever has the most votes at the time. With Tofu's case against me coming up, I highly suspect he will be voting for me, and possibly dragging Anacletus along with him. That would still leave you with the lynch, unless of course votes are swapped.
Say you believe that us 4 are town. You've at least stated that you believe that You, FirmTofu, and Anacletus are town. If you had to lynch a lurker by your own definition, who reads as strongest scum to you? At this point, hitting a lurker feels more right to me, again, tough to say based on my own case against Ana.
It's fine if you read me as scum. I want to prove to town that I'm not. My unvote I hope moves thought in that direction. I feel that if you believe me as scum, I have more to risk by unvoting Anacletus and discussing a lynch on lurkers more than if I kept with my vote on Ana.
It's not something I'm completely 100% sold on, but I feel like the possibility of us 4 being all town needs to come up.
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Right, this is some lovely WIFOM-y stuff, or at the very least some stuff where I'm of two minds.
I'm sold on Anac and I being town. The end. I'm relatively sold on FirmTofu being town, but want to see more. I was considering one of the lurkers for the vig, but either he's not claiming or I was wrong. So what I'm left with right now is: (1a) Two mafia lurkers; (1b) You + one lurker as mafia; (2) some scenario in which Firm is mafia.
Out of the three that I'm calling "lurkers," and I still feel them to be such given that so much of what we DO have from them is excuses for not posting and promises to post more soon, I'm most comfortable lynching into Cross and Hyaach. Will look at them some more, both my thoughts from yesterday and their responses, and see if one really sticks out to me as a better candidate.
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With regards to WIFOM... yeah. It's getting to that point soon. Plus, it's only going to get worse if we mislynch, which is why I want to find the best possible target.
With regards to Tofu, I suppose I'm going to have to wait to see what the fuss is all about on this "Mega Post". I don't know why it's taken this long for someone to make the post about me, but it is what it is. If Tofu is set on his vote, and I can't convince him otherwise, I feel like my only option would be to look into a lurker lynch, or fall back to my original vote.
I will look through the lurkers filters again as well, though I'm leaning towards Hyaach as being the scummiest lurker right now.
His "suspicions" are simply just a fishnet as of now, with no real reasoning behind them. I'm going to try and see if there are any connections between the 3 lurkers and Mufaa, though as of right now the biggest connection between them is that they were all mostly low post count lurkers >.<
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The ONLY reason I'm not entirely sold on Hyaach is his no-vote. When we already saw Jailbreaker get modkilled, a no-vote from a scummy player feels like way too large of a risk to take.
##Vote: Hyaach
That said, it's not really a town play either. I can only see someone failing to vote if they actually weren't around at all, which would mean he also wasn't getting prodded in QT or anything. For now, my vote's on him. His post today was just "here's what mufaa said" and voting based off of who mufaa had prodded or not. But I don't like holding my vote this late when there are no votes on anyone I find scummy, and (clearly) I've got no problem tossing out the first vote on someone.
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And of course, in WIFOM-world, you chose the guy who's in a time zone that would mean he's asleep during this time period. We can be almost certain that he's not coming back in to defend himself. So I'd like to see some more reasoning from you on why you like him over the other two, especially if Tofu is still working on some post about how he's convinced that you're scum.
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On May 18 2012 05:23 austinmcc wrote: And of course, in WIFOM-world, you chose the guy who's in a time zone that would mean he's asleep during this time period. We can be almost certain that he's not coming back in to defend himself. So I'd like to see some more reasoning from you on why you like him over the other two, especially if Tofu is still working on some post about how he's convinced that you're scum.
Fair enough. My decision to FoS him was not his timezone. Honestly I didn't even know where he lived, all I knew was that his posts were generally not helpful and really focused on Anacletus. Does that make him scum to me? Well, if I said yes, it sure would look bad for me as well.
The reason I find him scummy right now is that he was so completely focused on Anacletus, up until his vote for you Day 3.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 20:39 Hyaach wrote:##vote Austinmcc Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 03:00 Mufaa wrote:EBWOP: Meant to preview notpost,please disregard the darkfire portion above and use this one. Darkfirex5My suspicions of him aren't as strong, but I still have a few things I'm curious about. + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. He's suspicious of BioSC, who says town/they instead of us/we. While this is something of note while building a case it isn't enough to build a case on its own. + Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 06:43 Darkfirex5 wrote:sorry im a student so i have school, currently i think this is a weak bandwagon forming on Anacletus. While his defense is weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. Yet the first person to begin the voting on Anacletus was Hyaach, his reasoning seemed just as weak: Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:33 Hyaach wrote: No edits are allowed.
IMO, i did whatever firmtofu wrote was just a innocent day 1 remark. There is nothing more suspicious about his post than yours actually.
And say "if" he was mafia, what if the mafia decided to throw him under the bus? Not a good way to rule out anything.
I'm also just voting you because there's nothing to discuss here /sarcasm The start of this "bandwagon" is begining to form off of this, though Anacletus did have a poor response which made him more suspicious the voting on him lacks solid reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 03:56 FirmTofu wrote:What... I said that purely in jest, teasing him about the newbie game that just completed. I didn't think you guys would go batshit insane over it. On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote: He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that?
As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though.
Crossfire put it best. dahdum was in a game before this and I just commented on how I hope he isn't scum again because he played well last game. I didn't think I was acting suspicious at all, but apparently it was? Regardless, we should switch up our votes onto some more scummy targets. There are certain people that are playing very pro-town right now, but may be doing so just to gain the town's trust. It's extremely hard to tell from just Day 1 behavior, so I think our best for a lynch would be to hunt those people who are genuinely acting scummy or playing poorly. Anacletus seems like the perfect target to start. On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This quote is suspicious, for reasons mentioned previously my numerous people. However, there is an interesting phrasing of words I find rather intriguing. See bold. What motive would anyone have to say that sentence. Is it not already a statement of fact? Why did he feel the need to reiterate something that is quite obvious to everyone that is playing: If we lynch Tofu and he's town, then we are in trouble. Well, no shit Sherlock. Generally when town people die, the mafia gets farther ahead. Here's my theory. Anacletus knows I am town, because I'm not on his mafia team. Therefore, he knows if and when I get lynched, I will flip town. That statement is guilt insurance and a scum tell because of it. He is trying to insure himself now so that later, he can say "Aw crap, well I was wrong, but look at my previous post where I admitted I might be wrong!"When town members vote people, they don't know whether they are right or wrong. When mafia vote people they know the exact alignment of the person they are voting. I believe this knowledge just leaked from Anacletus the mafia. ##vote:Anacletus I bolded the part im talking about (didnt cut out any as to take something out of context^). Another thing now is that Tofu anounces the role of being a townie, and the reason (supposidly) why Anacletus targeted him was because he knew he was town (because he was mafia)? Now im questioning then why did he target you (tofu) only because you were town. Why initiate like that on a post that seemed insignifigant. I'm building suspicion on the reasoning for starting this bandwagon on Anacletus. Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Lastly: Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 04:52 BioSC wrote:Good morning. Lets get to business. Somehow I managed to miss this post back on page 5. On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote:On May 10 2012 08:17 BioSC wrote: If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. If you are going to put pressure on me, at least make it substantial/useful. If you are going to quote me, quote the whole post, not half of it and take it out of context. "They" is referring to lurking players, which I am not, thus I didn't use "we". This suspicion about "misused" pronouns is silly, and only drives me to wonder about you. You have only made one post so far, and wasn't very helpful. So far, the only lurkers here are you and Mufaa, whom has yet to post ANYTHING. Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too. Now take this massive post Darkfire "contributed." The first 3/4 of it are on how this is a weak bandwagon case on Anac, with the last 1/4 on a wording dispute. This would be ok with me, except that he voted for Anac and never switched off of him. From there he posts mostly fluff until this gem. On May 13 2012 12:30 Darkfirex5 wrote: well now we have a lot to work with at least, i guess ShiaoPi was onto something, time to avenge him :D How do you know ShiaoPi was on to something? Austin and Anac both offered easy suggestions to why the mafia voted the way they did other than that they wanted to silence the person was closest to discovering them (Silencing vocal townies to stiffle discussion,attempting to frame the people on his list, etc...). Why should we believe this was just a careless post and not a slip? The others I'm less suspicious of but I do have some questions for them I want to ask: BioSC- All game you've been defending yourself from reads people put on you, but your defense is always "I'm not doing mafia things, your read is invalid" or something along those lines. I'd be a lot more likely to believe you if you had contributed to finding scum at all instead of just defending yourself. Who do you think is most likely to be scum and what do you have to back it up? Hyaach- I've noticed you voted for Anac without much of an explination and you tunneled him through day1. Since then you've said you're suspicious of people but instead of providing cases, you never follow up or ask other people for their opinions on the matter. Somewhat suspicious to me and I'll be watching this. Crossfire- I'm not sure what I think of him yet. His reason for not switching to BKE was pretty solid but since then his only case has been on me for not leading a lynch on a townie when there were 2hrs left in d1. Would like to see some more content. FirmTofu- You jumped on the BKE lynch after austinmcc's post where he says "I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now." Now his most recent post d2 is questioning austinmcc for the mislynch and implying Anac and austinmcc are buddying without any real proof. I don't believe this, but it makes me wonder if you're mafia and supported the BKE lynch because you knew he was town and saw an easy d2 lynch in austin/Anac because you knew that bringing up austin's case would put pressure on austin for the mislynch. Like I said, I have nothing concrete to back that up, but it does make me suspicious of you. austinmcc- Even though he led the mislynch on BKE, his reasonings were sound and his posts have all been solid so far. I'll be watching but you seem town to me. Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 00:39 Mufaa wrote: @ Austin:I called him out on the safer comment too.He ignored me also.Still waiting for a response to that.
going through the thread and filters now. I'll get a post up soon. i read through mufaa's filter. he was already listing Austinmcc as the least scummy people in his list from day one. With every other post to either push vote on people or directe FoS onto someone whose not Austinmcc/Unforgiven_ Hell, he even forgot him in his list. Has quite a few post that go along with austinmcc's flow of questioning Austinmcc has led two wrong mislynch. yes this may not be a good reason but its two townies dead. Says he has a town read on FirmTofu. I cant figure this part out. It maybe a trap eitherway. Mufaa was placing FirmTofu as the second least suspicious. Both him and Mufaa has stated times and again that Anac is a bad townie. But I can't seem to link them three together. And i'm actually inclined to believe now that Anac is really a bad townie. My mafia team right now is Mufaa Austinmcc and Unforgiven_
His reasoning is based on Mufaa's list from back in Day 1. Back then, Mufaa had you at the lowest of his tell list. I think he is trying to use that to push votes onto you.
Another thing that I find completely out of place is his sudden switch from tunneling Anacletus, to not even having him on the scum list. There's no reasoning behind it. His posts day 1 and 2 were all about Ana, yet Day 3 when posting his scumteam, Ana's not on it? Very suspicious.
Finally, his posts in between pressuring Ana and the Day 3 vote are more useless fluff posts, like these:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 12:20 Hyaach wrote: bad play town bad play. I was asleep from my last post to now. Going to read what happened inbetween. + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 02:38 Hyaach wrote: Hello people. Are we all dead yet? What are everyone's thoughts from last night?
+ Show Spoiler +On May 16 2012 19:55 Hyaach wrote: Well i guess the night wasn't for naught. Going to look through mufaa's filter.
In case anyone was wondering, I was suspicious of dahdum before this. Obviously I was wrong i guess.
Completely non-committal and useless posts, nothing relatively helpful to town and fluff posts just so he won't get modkilled.
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Dammit, i was writing a large post and power went out -.-. let me summarize
Hyaach: you can see on Mufaa's filter that he did not attacked me because i was the first telling i was suspicions on him. I belive he did this because he didnt wanted to attrack more attention to him form the people who had a FoS on him. I think this is a normal play by a mafia.
Besides this one argument i would like to know another reasons to suspect me (like austin strangely said, maybe to start some new bandwagon?)
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On May 18 2012 05:22 austinmcc wrote: The ONLY reason I'm not entirely sold on Hyaach is his no-vote. When we already saw Jailbreaker get modkilled, a no-vote from a scummy player feels like way too large of a risk to take.
I think OP demostrated he wasnt going to kill anyone directly at the end of the day, he gave 1 warning, so i think he was feeling safe.
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I don't like those as "fluff" though. He's not really filling a filter to make himself look active, there's no intent on his part to do anything other than be modkilled. Gah.
Also, i SWORE there was some post from him about his location saying Singapore but him being in ... Germany? Did I entirely make that up? Anyone remember that from any player?
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On May 18 2012 05:51 austinmcc wrote: I don't like those as "fluff" though. He's not really filling a filter to make himself look active, there's no intent on his part to do anything other than be modkilled. Gah.
Also, i SWORE there was some post from him about his location saying Singapore but him being in ... Germany? Did I entirely make that up? Anyone remember that from any player?
it was Shaopi
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On May 18 2012 05:46 Unforgiven_ve wrote: I think OP demostrated he wasnt going to kill anyone directly at the end of the day, he gave 1 warning, so i think he was feeling safe.
Yup, you're right.
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On May 18 2012 05:51 austinmcc wrote: I don't like those as "fluff" though. He's not really filling a filter to make himself look active, there's no intent on his part to do anything other than be modkilled. Gah.
Also, i SWORE there was some post from him about his location saying Singapore but him being in ... Germany? Did I entirely make that up? Anyone remember that from any player?
I don't know. I vaguley recall something like that, but it's not in his filter.
To me, it's a relative term. Fluff for someone like him is a simple one-line post that doesn't contribute anything to the conversation going on at the time. The majority of his small filter is like that.
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On May 18 2012 05:44 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Dammit, i was writing a large post and power went out -.-. let me summarize
Hyaach: you can see on Mufaa's filter that he did not attacked me because i was the first telling i was suspicions on him. I belive he did this because he didnt wanted to attrack more attention to him form the people who had a FoS on him. I think this is a normal play by a mafia.
Besides this one argument i would like to know another reasons to suspect me (like austin strangely said, maybe to start some new bandwagon?)
The reason we are calling you out is because of your post count/content. Lately it seems like there are 3 people who pop on to post their required 1 vote a day then log off and not contribute. Can you see how that would come across as suspicious?
Also, I would like to know what prompted this from you + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc
When you didn't have him on your list at the beginning of the game. Here is your first list of scumreads:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 00:21 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information, Show nested quote +I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post everybody already posted and im still waiting, and Show nested quote + posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8)
and being under the radar in general) Im gonna wait a couple more hours to cast my vote, i want to see if everyone goes active and chatty and the end of the day
What are you trying to say here? Why is there a blatant contradiction? Why, when looking through your filter, you seem to post that you suspect everyone in the game, but not offer any real information up?
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Also, I would like to remind people that we are now under the 2 hour mark. Tofu - If you have a case against me, make it, otherwise, we need to discuss a vote candidate. Austin - Based on my/your suspicions about Hyaach, or the response (or lack thereof) from Unforgiven - Are you committed to a vote on one of those 2?
Anacletus: I know you are feeling pretty helpless right now, but the best thing you could do right now is to get on and actually contribute. Read my last few posts directed to you and get on. Some contribution from you is better than a /suicide in this game.
I feel like we are missing someone's vote, whom hasn't voted yet?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 3 Vote Count
Anacletus(2): BioSC, Anacletus, Crossfire99
austinmcc(2): Unforgiven_ve, Hyaach
Hyaach(1): austinmcc
Not Voting: FirmTofu, BioSC
Just under 2 hours left to vote
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I've read and continue to read every post. I actually spend quite a bit of time reading TL in general and have this thread subscribed and read it almost instantly when it gets updated.
I have nothing to add.
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1.) + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 06:02 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 05:44 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Dammit, i was writing a large post and power went out -.-. let me summarize
Hyaach: you can see on Mufaa's filter that he did not attacked me because i was the first telling i was suspicions on him. I belive he did this because he didnt wanted to attrack more attention to him form the people who had a FoS on him. I think this is a normal play by a mafia.
Besides this one argument i would like to know another reasons to suspect me (like austin strangely said, maybe to start some new bandwagon?) The reason we are calling you out is because of your post count/content. Lately it seems like there are 3 people who pop on to post their required 1 vote a day then log off and not contribute. Can you see how that would come across as suspicious? Also, I would like to know what prompted this from you + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc When you didn't have him on your list at the beginning of the game. Here is your first list of scumreads: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 00:21 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information, Show nested quote +I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post everybody already posted and im still waiting, and Show nested quote + posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8)
and being under the radar in general) Im gonna wait a couple more hours to cast my vote, i want to see if everyone goes active and chatty and the end of the day What are you trying to say here? Why is there a blatant contradiction? Why, when looking through your filter, you seem to post that you suspect everyone in the game, but not offer any real information up?
You said it? AT THE BEGGINING of the game, please, dont quote if you are not gonna read all the filter and take it out of context, i clearly said:
My suspicions on Anacletus RAISED big time, but he's not my main read tho. In case i get killed (but i doubt it after this) my FoS goes to austincc.
I feel he is actually playing whit the town's "mind", he (both times) just goes super agressive on someone and gets lynched right away, he's using his good redaction skills to throw analysis at the end of both days. I will quote nothing, im gonna stick whit this, its pretty obvious for me now.
About anacletus im beliving now he's just a bad player who got lucky two times. Watch his filter and see the big difference on his posting now.
##FoS austincc and Anacletus
2.) + Show Spoiler + Why, when looking through your filter, you seem to post that you suspect everyone in the game, but not offer any real information up?
My response, something i have alrewady posted too. : you dont see me posting LONG DEPTH ANALYSIS because we havent had much to work on, besides lame reads based of a couple posts, i want to base my suspicions on actions, how people behave and voting patterns. (i confess, i thought this game were the kind in wich you get subtle clues and histories for night actions.)
ALL of us just hadn't much information, just now we have a few things to base our cases, as i just said, i was (hardly) writign a big post and the fxxing power went out.
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Not Voting: Darkfirex5, FirmTofu, BioSC uh?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Lol, I knew something looked wrong
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On May 15 2012 08:07 Darkfirex5 wrote: well guys gl hf i died (sadface) geting hanged is not a fun way to go D:
wtf?
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Anacletus, do you just not care at all in this game?
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Unforgiven, let's just go with this, from the start of today:
On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc
Specifically, WHAT are you saying you were right about?
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On May 18 2012 06:19 Crossfire99 wrote: Anacletus, do you just not care at all in this game?
On May 17 2012 13:45 Anacletus wrote:
I'm not giving up on trying to win. I just figure by the way you guys are playing that I'm more of a liability than anything. So why not just get this done now for a higher chance of winning later.
Not defending one's self doesn't equate to how one acts.
Thank you for taking the time to read my posts. This quote is from yesterday so either you didn't read it or just forgot. Please don't accuse me of things such as ruining the game purposefully or not caring.
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Sorry, I missed that post. I just got this vibe from your posts that I misinterpreted. So you honestly believe suicide is the right way to go?
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Sorry, i see i didnt specify that, i mean about Mufaa being a scum
1.- May 12 My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses)...
2.- May 13 You can see im not the only one suspecting of Mufaa, im just not buying that kind of "clean play", no time to play, a couple of long depth analysis post, go back to lurk and come whit another "great" analysis.
3.- May 13 (again) My list in case i die.
suspicious of mufaa, jailbreaker, crossfire because at the time they hadn't really posted
4.- May 15 My top 3:
austincc Anacletus Dahdum/Mufaa/Hyaach maybe bio/crossfire
Before that i said i need to read more camly all the post to get a 3rd suspect.
I just didn't found something good to really focus on a 3rd person.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 06:14 Unforgiven_ve wrote:1.) + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 06:02 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 05:44 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Dammit, i was writing a large post and power went out -.-. let me summarize
Hyaach: you can see on Mufaa's filter that he did not attacked me because i was the first telling i was suspicions on him. I belive he did this because he didnt wanted to attrack more attention to him form the people who had a FoS on him. I think this is a normal play by a mafia.
Besides this one argument i would like to know another reasons to suspect me (like austin strangely said, maybe to start some new bandwagon?) The reason we are calling you out is because of your post count/content. Lately it seems like there are 3 people who pop on to post their required 1 vote a day then log off and not contribute. Can you see how that would come across as suspicious? Also, I would like to know what prompted this from you + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc When you didn't have him on your list at the beginning of the game. Here is your first list of scumreads: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 00:21 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information, Show nested quote +I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post everybody already posted and im still waiting, and Show nested quote + posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8)
and being under the radar in general) Im gonna wait a couple more hours to cast my vote, i want to see if everyone goes active and chatty and the end of the day What are you trying to say here? Why is there a blatant contradiction? Why, when looking through your filter, you seem to post that you suspect everyone in the game, but not offer any real information up? You said it? AT THE BEGGINING of the game, please, dont quote if you are not gonna read all the filter and take it out of context, i clearly said: Show nested quote +My suspicions on Anacletus RAISED big time, but he's not my main read tho. In case i get killed (but i doubt it after this) my FoS goes to austincc.
I feel he is actually playing whit the town's "mind", he (both times) just goes super agressive on someone and gets lynched right away, he's using his good redaction skills to throw analysis at the end of both days. I will quote nothing, im gonna stick whit this, its pretty obvious for me now.
About anacletus im beliving now he's just a bad player who got lucky two times. Watch his filter and see the big difference on his posting now.
##FoS austincc and Anacletus 2.) + Show Spoiler + Why, when looking through your filter, you seem to post that you suspect everyone in the game, but not offer any real information up? My response, something i have alrewady posted too. : Show nested quote +you dont see me posting LONG DEPTH ANALYSIS because we havent had much to work on, besides lame reads based of a couple posts, i want to base my suspicions on actions, how people behave and voting patterns. (i confess, i thought this game were the kind in wich you get subtle clues and histories for night actions.) ALL of us just hadn't much information, just now we have a few things to base our cases, as i just said, i was (hardly) writign a big post and the fxxing power went out. Unforgiven's post.
I'm taking nothing out of context. I'm reading what YOU said, which is that:
On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc
Now, I looked through your filter, trust me. I found both of those posts. The post YOU linked/quoted: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=21#406 I found that on page 21 of the thread. Want to know where I found the quote I did?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#199 Page 10.
You tell me what post would be closer to "The beginning of the game"
My question still stands. What are you trying to say with that quote, and WHY is there a contradiction?
To your second half of your post: We need reads from you. You've offered next to nothing. Making reads and sharing them with town is how the town figures out who is/isn't scum. Care to make a read on someone? Why is Austin your #1, when "At the beginning of the game" you didn't suspect him, contradicting your claim to the post you made earlier in the day?
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But i guess Mufaa's play worked, he never attacked me so i got distracted whit other targets. Something i feel a couple more players are doing right now
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I'm content dropping that post and this back and forth because I don't think it really gets us any useful information.
So instead, are you still fully happy with voting me? Regardless of whether you are or aren't, are there other targets you'd be willing to vote for?
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 06:28 BioSC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 06:14 Unforgiven_ve wrote:1.) + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 06:02 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 05:44 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Dammit, i was writing a large post and power went out -.-. let me summarize
Hyaach: you can see on Mufaa's filter that he did not attacked me because i was the first telling i was suspicions on him. I belive he did this because he didnt wanted to attrack more attention to him form the people who had a FoS on him. I think this is a normal play by a mafia.
Besides this one argument i would like to know another reasons to suspect me (like austin strangely said, maybe to start some new bandwagon?) The reason we are calling you out is because of your post count/content. Lately it seems like there are 3 people who pop on to post their required 1 vote a day then log off and not contribute. Can you see how that would come across as suspicious? Also, I would like to know what prompted this from you + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc When you didn't have him on your list at the beginning of the game. Here is your first list of scumreads: + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 00:21 Unforgiven_ve wrote:I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information, Show nested quote +I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post everybody already posted and im still waiting, and Show nested quote + posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8)
and being under the radar in general) Im gonna wait a couple more hours to cast my vote, i want to see if everyone goes active and chatty and the end of the day What are you trying to say here? Why is there a blatant contradiction? Why, when looking through your filter, you seem to post that you suspect everyone in the game, but not offer any real information up? You said it? AT THE BEGGINING of the game, please, dont quote if you are not gonna read all the filter and take it out of context, i clearly said: Show nested quote +My suspicions on Anacletus RAISED big time, but he's not my main read tho. In case i get killed (but i doubt it after this) my FoS goes to austincc.
I feel he is actually playing whit the town's "mind", he (both times) just goes super agressive on someone and gets lynched right away, he's using his good redaction skills to throw analysis at the end of both days. I will quote nothing, im gonna stick whit this, its pretty obvious for me now.
About anacletus im beliving now he's just a bad player who got lucky two times. Watch his filter and see the big difference on his posting now.
##FoS austincc and Anacletus 2.) + Show Spoiler + Why, when looking through your filter, you seem to post that you suspect everyone in the game, but not offer any real information up? My response, something i have alrewady posted too. : Show nested quote +you dont see me posting LONG DEPTH ANALYSIS because we havent had much to work on, besides lame reads based of a couple posts, i want to base my suspicions on actions, how people behave and voting patterns. (i confess, i thought this game were the kind in wich you get subtle clues and histories for night actions.) ALL of us just hadn't much information, just now we have a few things to base our cases, as i just said, i was (hardly) writign a big post and the fxxing power went out. Unforgiven's post. I'm taking nothing out of context. I'm reading what YOU said, which is that: Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc Now, I looked through your filter, trust me. I found both of those posts. The post YOU linked/quoted: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=21#406I found that on page 21 of the thread. Want to know where I found the quote I did? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#199Page 10. You tell me what post would be closer to "The beginning of the game" My question still stands. What are you trying to say with that quote, and WHY is there a contradiction? To your second half of your post: We need reads from you. You've offered next to nothing. Making reads and sharing them with town is how the town figures out who is/isn't scum. Care to make a read on someone? Why is Austin your #1, when "At the beginning of the game" you didn't suspect him, contradicting your claim to the post you made earlier in the day?
uh? i dont think im really understanding what you are saying. I'll try and make it clear... at first i haven't suspected austin because (as i have said a LOT of times) we hadn't much to work on. After 2 days and seeing the result of austin "Leader role" i grow suspicious of him since page 10-11/whatever? Thats the idea if the game right? try to READ people, not sticking whit your first and sole list
as you can read at page 21 I feel he is actually playing whit the town's "mind", he (both times) just goes super agressive on someone and gets lynched right away, he's using his good redaction skills to throw analysis at the end of both days. I will quote nothing, im gonna stick whit this, its pretty obvious for me now.
About anacletus im beliving now he's just a bad player who got lucky two times. Watch his filter and see the big difference on his posting now.
##FoS austincc and Anacletus
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On May 18 2012 06:36 austinmcc wrote: I'm content dropping that post and this back and forth because I don't think it really gets us any useful information.
So instead, are you still fully happy with voting me? Regardless of whether you are or aren't, are there other targets you'd be willing to vote for?
The thing about people lurking is REALLY bothering me, mafias are the only oenss benefiting from this. Hyaach is one, what if we vote for him and he turns townie? it just adds a 3 dead bodie to your list?
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BioSC: in case you are refering to this sole line On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc
i meant about the GOLDEN night kill from our vigilante, i just got exited i guess lol
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Ok, lets try something else. Who is your #2? Who do you think is Austin's scumbuddy?
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On May 18 2012 06:40 Unforgiven_ve wrote:BioSC: in case you are refering to this sole line Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc i meant about the GOLDEN night kill from our vigilante, i just got exited i guess lol
Yes. I wanted to know why you instantly went to austin, when it was heavily implied that you suspected him from the start of the game, which as I pointed out wasn't true.
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On May 18 2012 06:36 austinmcc wrote: I'm content dropping that post and this back and forth because I don't think it really gets us any useful information.
So instead, are you still fully happy with voting me? Regardless of whether you are or aren't, are there other targets you'd be willing to vote for?
Thats the thing whit you guys, you cant spot scum whit one sole line, you should look to the whole style of play. Of course you dont have reads on me, im just a townie trying to survive and giving some input when i can, when i feel something is scummy i say it. Thats why "My first list" was just a sketch-up. You can keep pushing your first thought if you something else is wrong/looks scummier
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 06:44 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 06:40 Unforgiven_ve wrote:BioSC: in case you are refering to this sole line On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now
##Vote austinmcc i meant about the GOLDEN night kill from our vigilante, i just got exited i guess lol Yes. I wanted to know why you instantly went to austin, when it was heavily implied that you suspected him from the start of the game, which as I pointed out wasn't true.
My bad then. about the "does that bother you austin?" part i was refering to getting one of his partners killed.
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On May 18 2012 06:43 BioSC wrote: Ok, lets try something else. Who is your #2? Who do you think is Austin's scumbuddy?
On May 17 2012 13:54 Unforgiven_ve wrote:... and i gave you my top 2 suspects, im just indecisive over my 3rd vote! My top 3: + Show Spoiler + austincc Anacletus Dahdum/Mufaa/Hyaach maybe bio/crossfire
Anacletus play is just ridiculous.
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On May 18 2012 06:39 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 06:36 austinmcc wrote: I'm content dropping that post and this back and forth because I don't think it really gets us any useful information.
So instead, are you still fully happy with voting me? Regardless of whether you are or aren't, are there other targets you'd be willing to vote for? The thing about people lurking is REALLY bothering me, mafias are the only oenss benefiting from this. Hyaach is one, what if we vote for him and he turns townie? it just adds a 3 dead bodie to your list?
If we vote for him and he turns townie, then I continue to make terrible reads. But, EVERYONE we vote for has a chance of flipping townie. I have a chance of flipping townie, and it's what will happen if you lynch me. If Hyaach isn't adding anything at all to town, and mafia is the only party benefitting from lurkers, then at the very least you ought to consider voting for him or crossfire.
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If ana or austin turns townie, im fucked. i dont have any good read on anyone else yet.
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On May 18 2012 06:19 Crossfire99 wrote: Anacletus, do you just not care at all in this game?
If you are in this thread this close to the deadline, I want some input from you. What is your take on everything discussed? Why shouldn't we vote you for lurking?
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On May 18 2012 06:52 Unforgiven_ve wrote: If ana or austin turns townie, im fucked. i dont have any good read on anyone else yet.
That's our point. I realized this yesterday night, that it's possible that I'm completely wrong with my leads and that we need to focus on finding someone with the highest possibility of being scum. Which is why we wanted you and the other people who don't post all that much to come in and contribute thoughts, so we can try to come up with the best lynch.
THAT is why people were calling you out. It's not scummy to post thoughts, It's scummy and overall bad play to just sit back and watch townies get lynched without saying anything.
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Do you swear on Jim Raynor's life you are townie? lol That's the thing, if any of us dies, its GG. Mafia vs Lurkers. I see you/bio are the ones really pushing people.
pd: this just came to my mind, what if you to are the 2 mafia? Classic ending day swap? pd2: i just have 10 more minutes, then i have to go out and do some stuff.
Make me change my mind, we still have a chance, why is there no possibility of you and bio are mafia?
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On May 18 2012 06:52 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 06:19 Crossfire99 wrote: Anacletus, do you just not care at all in this game? If you are in this thread this close to the deadline, I want some input from you. What is your take on everything discussed? Why shouldn't we vote you for lurking?
I have posted my thoughts on people when I have had the time. I may not have the quantity of posts, but I feel I have tried to analyze and give reasoning for posts that I have made.
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We are at about one hour to go, and with no word from FirmTofu, I'm going to guess that something's come up and he can't actually post his case on me/vote. Which leaves me as the swing vote, something I'm not all too comfortable with, considering everything that's happened this day cycle.
At this point, I'm pretty convinced that a lurker lynch would be the best course today. We've got Unforgiven to contribute, which is nice. Not that it removes all suspicion off of him, but it's at least a start.
Crossfire: Are you locked in on your Anacletus vote? What of the other lurker as of today, Hyaach? Anacletus: Are you committing suicide in the night phase regardless of the vote today? If so, I don't want to risk lynching a townie if you are just going to /out in the night Austin: Are you confident in your read on the lurkers? Even if I believed you, we would need at least one more vote to secure a lynch.
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Honestly, I feel my main read, Anac, is becoming less likely to be mafia. He really seems resigned to voting for himself and just wants to die. I feel that if he was mafia and and somewhat close to winning, he should be desperate to stay alive (or at least neutral about it). But he isn't. ugh. this is rally throwing a wrench into my dieas.
##Unvote
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Oh, there's a possibility Bio is mafia Some confirmed townies had their suspicions on him. He DID play very defensively early on. Either it's mindgames right now that he's looking elsewhere and contributing, or he actually realized that he was boned if he didn't extend his reads further and start considering other possibilities. Or something else, lol.
As to me . . . you say I've been playing with a townie's mind. Maybe I've been carrying that persona since D1. But you should look at two things. (1) My original cases on Brood and on darkfire. I'm not sheeping anyone else at those points, those were legitimate reads that I had. Especially the Brood case, as he wasn't even really being considered until I brought him up. (2) The end of D2/start of N2. Read my posts. I'm legitimately furious that for all the discussion we had, folks (including you) are coming in at the last second and voting yourselves and not contributing. Mafia doesn't want discussion. Sure, if i'm mafia playing with a town's mind then maybe I still make those posts, but I felt I was pretty clear that I was legitimately upset by how the end of D2 played out, and not just faking it.
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On May 18 2012 07:00 BioSC wrote:
Crossfire: Are you locked in on your Anacletus vote? What of the other lurker as of today, Hyaach?
I'm not locked in anymore lol. Just saw this post. I'll have to take a look at Hyaach's filter and get back to you on that.
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On May 18 2012 06:57 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Do you swear on Jim Raynor's life you are townie? lol That's the thing, if any of us dies, its GG. Mafia vs Lurkers. I see you/bio are the ones really pushing people.
pd: this just came to my mind, what if you to are the 2 mafia? Classic ending day swap? pd2: i just have 10 more minutes, then i have to go out and do some stuff.
Make me change my mind, we still have a chance, why is there no possibility of you and bio are mafia?
I can swear on whatever you want, at the end of the day, its what I know from my PM and what people's perceptions of me are. I know I'm town, and I've stayed that way since day 1. This morning, I removed my unvote from Anacletus to try and get him to contribute, but it obviously hasn't worked. If I was scum, why would I need to put my neck out? I had the majority against him at the time, even if he switched off himself and onto me at the deadline. If I were scum, why would I do that? I want to prove I'm town, and if it means I have to admit I might be wrong about Anacletus, then so be it.
My read is that Austin is town, barely. He has been rather unlucky in his cases, but has made valid points that more than just mafia have been convinced by.
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Bio, I'm absolutely convinced that 1-2 lurkers are scum at this point. I got really frustrated with it at the end of D2, and tried to actually get some participation today (See starting off with giant bolded names).
Also note that the moment the discussion turns to lynching into lurkers, and the moment the whole town starts discussing them, we get a WHOLE lot more action. Not from Hyaach, but Cross and unforgiven are both here and active for the time being. I'm inclined to interpret that as being onto something.
This last hour or so, like how it seems to go with this game's days, has generated a whole lot of content at the very least. Lots of changes of heart, scheming from both town and mafia, and so I'm not entirely sure what to make of it as this exact moment.
Given that my reads on Brood, darkfire, dahdum, and mufaa were ALL wrong basically, I'm not terribly confident in my choice of lurker. But I've got to assume I'll get something right at some point. If you'd prefer a different lurker, I'm open to changing. Unless Firm comes back in here with some giant encyclopedic case on you that makes everything click, I am dead-set on voting for a lurker today.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 07:04 austinmcc wrote:Oh, there's a possibility Bio is mafia Some confirmed townies had their suspicions on him. He DID play very defensively early on. Either it's mindgames right now that he's looking elsewhere and contributing, or he actually realized that he was boned if he didn't extend his reads further and start considering other possibilities. Or something else, lol. As to me . . . you say I've been playing with a townie's mind. Maybe I've been carrying that persona since D1. But you should look at two things. (1) My original cases on Brood and on darkfire. I'm not sheeping anyone else at those points, those were legitimate reads that I had. Especially the Brood case, as he wasn't even really being considered until I brought him up. (2) The end of D2/start of N2. Read my posts. I'm legitimately furious that for all the discussion we had, folks (including you) are coming in at the last second and voting yourselves and not contributing. Mafia doesn't want discussion. Sure, if i'm mafia playing with a town's mind then maybe I still make those posts, but I felt I was pretty clear that I was legitimately upset by how the end of D2 played out, and not just faking it.
i meant you are playing whit people's mind, as you are doing whit me right now -_-.
I want to prove I'm town, and if it means I have to admit I might be wrong about Anacletus, then so be it.
Anacletus is wrong about himself.
i will fall for your both arguments, lurkers did fuck us, and i stated the first day, we shouldnt care about them the first day, but the few people alive the more contributions we need.
Sadly i got to go. I want you to know i declined a sex session whit my gf just to have a couple hours to burn at this game lol.
##Unvote
##Vote Hyaach
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Leaving work and driving home now. Should be back with ~30 minutes to deadline.
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On May 18 2012 07:12 austinmcc wrote: Bio, I'm absolutely convinced that 1-2 lurkers are scum at this point. I got really frustrated with it at the end of D2, and tried to actually get some participation today (See starting off with giant bolded names).
Also note that the moment the discussion turns to lynching into lurkers, and the moment the whole town starts discussing them, we get a WHOLE lot more action. Not from Hyaach, but Cross and unforgiven are both here and active for the time being. I'm inclined to interpret that as being onto something.
This last hour or so, like how it seems to go with this game's days, has generated a whole lot of content at the very least. Lots of changes of heart, scheming from both town and mafia, and so I'm not entirely sure what to make of it as this exact moment.
Given that my reads on Brood, darkfire, dahdum, and mufaa were ALL wrong basically, I'm not terribly confident in my choice of lurker. But I've got to assume I'll get something right at some point. If you'd prefer a different lurker, I'm open to changing. Unless Firm comes back in here with some giant encyclopedic case on you that makes everything click, I am dead-set on voting for a lurker today.
You want to know my schedule today? I got at 7:00 and have been at school all day and didn't get a chance to look at this thread until I got home. How is that suspicious? Weren't you the one trying to get the lurkers contributing more and now you are suspicous of the lurkers who are trying to participate now? Isn't that contradictory? You don't like the lurkers for lurking, but then when they come and try to participate you don't like that they do that? What?
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Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but here's my number, so call me maybe!
##Unvote ##Vote Hyaach
On May 17 2012 20:39 Hyaach wrote: My mafia team right now is Mufaa Austinmcc and Unforgiven_
It may seem small, I just think that the only reason to add Mufaa into that after he is already dead is silly and is just a mechanism used to add weight to his opinion and distance himself from Mufaa. Again, it's something small, but I think it's quite telling.
On May 16 2012 19:55 Hyaach wrote: Well i guess the night wasn't for naught. Going to look through mufaa's filter.
In case anyone was wondering, I was suspicious of dahdum before this. Obviously I was wrong i guess.
I also think that he's just been pretty wishy-washy and trying to not gain any attention at all.
So that's the big reasons for me voting - along with that I don't necessarily think anyone else has condemning evidence against them.
So, again, I am always watching so if you post something at me assume I'm lurking and not answering for a reason/waiting for another reply or formulating my own reply.
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On May 18 2012 07:13 austinmcc wrote: Leaving work and driving home now. Should be back with ~30 minutes to deadline.
Fair enough. At this point, there would be 3 votes for Hyacch should I go with my instinct and vote him. I note your observation about the amount of content posted and when. Either way Hyacch flips, it will be an interesting discussion come night/day 4. I am also interested in what FirmTofu had to say about me, and what he gathered from my filter, if only to get a read from him off of it. For now, I'm going to go with my gut choice, and put my vote towards Hyaach.
##Vote Hyaach
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 3 Vote Count
Hyaach(4): austinmcc, Unforgive_ve, Anacletus, BioSC
austinmcc(1): Unforgiven_ve, Hyaach
Anacletus(0): BioSC, Anacletus, Crossfire99
BioSC: Anacletus
Not Voting: FirmTofu, Crossfire
Just under 1/2 hour left to vote.
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On May 18 2012 07:17 Crossfire99 wrote: You want to know my schedule today? I got at 7:00 and have been at school all day and didn't get a chance to look at this thread until I got home. How is that suspicious? Weren't you the one trying to get the lurkers contributing more and now you are suspicous of the lurkers who are trying to participate now? Isn't that contradictory? You don't like the lurkers for lurking, but then when they come and try to participate you don't like that they do that? What?
It's going to come across dick-ish, but no. I don't want to know your schedule. I don't care about the reasons why any of us lack time to play, because we're on the internet and we can make up whatever we want.
And no, I don't think it's entirely contradictory. Lurking IS anti-town, it's scummy. Posting can be. Just because you lurked and were scummy doesn't mean you show up and no longer are scummy at all. Posts can look scummy too. Behavior can look scummy. Timing, content, the way a vote moves, that's all participating and can look scummy.
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I don't like this at all. Something seems off. I think we need to look at Austin more closely. His last post that I quoted makes it seem like he is trying to read too hard into stuff. He is worrying about when people log on and post stuff, when they don't, etc. I don't like this because only we know our own schedule and no one else knows the reasons for posting, not posting, etc. If you read too much into this you probably will get wrong reads. Focus on the information in everyone's posts because that is the only information we know for sure is from the poster and not a function of something overwhich thay have no control.
##Vote austinmcc
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On May 18 2012 07:38 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 07:17 Crossfire99 wrote: You want to know my schedule today? I got at 7:00 and have been at school all day and didn't get a chance to look at this thread until I got home. How is that suspicious? Weren't you the one trying to get the lurkers contributing more and now you are suspicous of the lurkers who are trying to participate now? Isn't that contradictory? You don't like the lurkers for lurking, but then when they come and try to participate you don't like that they do that? What? It's going to come across dick-ish, but no. I don't want to know your schedule. I don't care about the reasons why any of us lack time to play, because we're on the internet and we can make up whatever we want. And no, I don't think it's entirely contradictory. Lurking IS anti-town, it's scummy. Posting can be. Just because you lurked and were scummy doesn't mean you show up and no longer are scummy at all. Posts can look scummy too. Behavior can look scummy. Timing, content, the way a vote moves, that's all participating and can look scummy.
You can believe whatever you want, but its the truth. Obviously I can't prove that to you, but whatever. Yeah posting behavior can look scummy, voting behavior can look scummy, but that is all from posts and not reliant on stuff outside their control. I try not to judge people based on information I don't have because that is just complete speculation and anyone can make up anything to fit thier theories.
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If anyone voting Hyaach is NOT happy with the lynch, better speak up. Feel like without that vig-shot we'd have been screwed, but at least the last few hours have really pushed things out in the open.
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I couldn't finish it >< This is really disappointing. I've been swamped with work, but I really hoped to finish it by now. I'll only have a chance to post it during night so that at least the vig might be able to get the right guy.
For the record, I know Hyaach isn't mafia because I am one of the two people not voting him. I'm not mafia.
That leaves at least one mafia voting for Hyaach. Would mafia vote for their teammate at this stage? Highly unlikely. Get your votes off of him asap before he flips town.
Our best bet for an actual lynch right now is austin and he definitely is a much better one at that. I'm still bummed out that I couldn't finish my case on BioSC yet but for now:
##Vote austinmcc
I repeat, get your votes off of hyaach. It's is highly unlikely he is mafia simply because of the amt of votes on him.
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austin, if you want to prove to me that you ware town, unvote hyaach RIGHT NOW. I will unvote you if you do so and we can put up BioSC, who I think is scummier than you are. Please, quickly.
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I think the deadline's passed Firm. Convenient of you to post this, I had figured you were lurking and watching everything go by, seeing what you made of it, like Anac was doing. Guess not.
Do you actually believe me to be scummy? If so, at what point? I'm fine lynching into our lurkers, would you not have been? Do you disagree with the choice of lurker? I don't know that he's the right one either, but I don't buy 3 townie lurkers.
Either you think both Bio and I are scummy, and we have an incredibly inactive town, or something's wrong with your reasoning. If you feel I'm the scummiest because of my vote being the first on Hyaach, then I'd urge you to look at
On May 18 2012 05:09 BioSC wrote: With regards to WIFOM... yeah. It's getting to that point soon. Plus, it's only going to get worse if we mislynch, which is why I want to find the best possible target.
With regards to Tofu, I suppose I'm going to have to wait to see what the fuss is all about on this "Mega Post". I don't know why it's taken this long for someone to make the post about me, but it is what it is. If Tofu is set on his vote, and I can't convince him otherwise, I feel like my only option would be to look into a lurker lynch, or fall back to my original vote.
I will look through the lurkers filters again as well, though I'm leaning towards Hyaach as being the scummiest lurker right now.
His "suspicions" are simply just a fishnet as of now, with no real reasoning behind them. I'm going to try and see if there are any connections between the 3 lurkers and Mufaa, though as of right now the biggest connection between them is that they were all mostly low post count lurkers >.<
On May 18 2012 05:22 austinmcc wrote: The ONLY reason I'm not entirely sold on Hyaach is his no-vote. When we already saw Jailbreaker get modkilled, a no-vote from a scummy player feels like way too large of a risk to take.
##Vote: Hyaach
That said, it's not really a town play either. I can only see someone failing to vote if they actually weren't around at all, which would mean he also wasn't getting prodded in QT or anything. For now, my vote's on him. His post today was just "here's what mufaa said" and voting based off of who mufaa had prodded or not. But I don't like holding my vote this late when there are no votes on anyone I find scummy, and (clearly) I've got no problem tossing out the first vote on someone.
At the very end, there wasn't another legitimate target, except me. Either the last remaining scum agrees to bus Hyaach, gahhhhhhhhhhhh
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EBWOP: Just saw Firm's last post and spammed out what I had to start writing something else.
We're past the deadline as far as I know. If Hyaach flips town, then I'm absolutely down to lynch Bio. He'll be confirmed in my eyes, throwing the name out but not being willing to put his neck on the line as the target.
Does voting end at the deadline or the night post?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Night 3
Hyaach(4): austinmcc, Unforgive_ve, Anacletus, BioSC
austinmcc(2): Unforgiven_ve, Hyaach, Crossfire99
Anacletus(0): BioSC, Anacletus, Crossfire99
BioSC: Anacletus
Hyaach, One-Shot Vigilante has been lynched!
Firmtofu is warned for not voting by the deadline.
Night ends in 23 hours, please ensure that all night actions are sent to both myself and Nova_Terra.
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Well that makes me look like mafia.
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Bio caught the same breadcrumb I did looks like.
On May 10 2012 08:56 Hyaach wrote: this is exactly why i always hated day starts.
just posting to let people know i'm here and ready to jump the big gun!
On May 10 2012 09:02 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 08:56 Hyaach wrote: this is exactly why i always hated day starts.
just posting to let people know i'm here and ready to jump the big gun! Guys! He said he has a gun! He's OBVIOUSLY SCUM! . . . I kid... or do I?
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Firm, I'd like to see your case on Bio, but this confirms him in my eyes and my vote will be on him tomorrow.
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I'm sorry TL time is a bit confusing. I might have to readjust the clock because I thought I still had a few minutes to vote.
On May 18 2012 09:00 Anacletus wrote: Well that makes me look like mafia. No, it doesn't. You are always too hard on yourself. There are others in our midst who have much more to worry about than you do.
I'll be dead by tomorrow, out of necessity for the mafia. It will be one less vote against Bio which I suspect is why they killed dahdum as well. Our vig is dead. Possibility of another blue role is relatively high(both dead blues are one-shot) but that person should not claim until Day 4.
I suspect the last blue to be a medic and I would like to request heals. Not sure if this will work, but hopefully WIFOM sways in my favor.
Thursdays are my busiest day, so I generally just read the thread on my phone between classes and post when I get back home. I'll be back home at 8pm PDT and I can post my case against BioSC then. As long as all of the town votes him, we can still win this game.
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You know what. I'm just going to say this now, but if I survive the night I will be unavailable for the beginning part of the next day phase. I'll be able to participate worst case scenario the last 8 hours of the day. I might get lucky and be able to post say in the first half, but don't assume that I will. I apologize in advance if this bothers some of you...
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Also, Firm are you still suspcious of Austin or did bio jump to the top of your list?
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The time difference screw me up or i would have come to my own defense.
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I'm posting from a phone so I can't quote.
This is just great another blue, Tofu, please, how in hell can you make effing post at the end Of the day and say “don't vote for him to prove your are towniw” WTF?? Say your danm reasons Don't come here after a decision has beend made and ramdonly say vote for another Player. We are sti waiting for your ZOMG SUPER HARDCORE SO INGSITHFUL POST . Give Your danm reasons now!
Also, Tofu, its the 3rd day now, and you still have scheldue issues? I understand on day 1, but Day 3?? You should have had that figured out already, I saw the voting period closed at 8pm TL time, I cheked my watch And VOILA ITS 6:30PM FOR ME, its not that hard.
I'm really frustrated right now, anothe blue is dead and he may have had more bullets on him, I doubt There is another vigilante out there. Medic, make a wise choice please!
So, austin and bio, my fears just became bigger, I belived tofu was a townie, I need to see his some reasons now, maybe it was a lucky guess.
I know this is ”newbie” mafia, but come on, we can't win this way, I thought it was not possible This became more lame since anacletus, but I have been proved wrong
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Well, I took a risk, and it didn't pay off. I love how I've become suspect number one though. All I can say is that I hope people actually discuss and talk about whom they are going to vote for when I flip. Because I guarantee people wont like it when I do.
All I can do now is defend myself against Firm's case. Hopefully it's enough to sway enough people towards not lynching me, but it may be too late for that. I'm off for the night, good luck to the rest of town.
To the medic, if we have one, protect the one you believe that is on the most correct path.
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I'll make a well thought out post on these events tomorrow. I'm too tired and busy right now.
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If someone is online please post. I want to get some feedback about today.
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I don't like that I'm seeing the “if you kill me you gonna regret it“ defense. We can do better than that
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On May 18 2012 13:12 Unforgiven_ve wrote: I don't like that I'm seeing the “if you kill me you gonna regret it“ defense. We can do better than that
What do I have to go on? People are switching to me and posting nothing about it. Like I said in my post, until Tofu comes in with his super amazing going to save the day post about me, I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said.
Now I'm really off for the night. Tomorrow, I will be free to discuss.
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Morning. As I'm sure that people are still steaming from yesterday's lynch, I would like to just post a quick update on some thoughts of mine.
FirmTofu: You have no reason now to withold your case about me. None at all. I don't particularly care what your reasons are out of thread, for all I and anyone else knows you could be making things up. That being said, if you don't post your case and mafia shoots you, the game will be all but over. Post your case, I'll argue against it, and the rest of town can decide for themselves.
To the Town: If Tofu's case against me is mostly about yesterday's lynch, I strongly urge you all to look into that as being scummy. Ask yourselves why he withheld this case for 2 RL days. Did he not have any decisive evidence? Did he want to make sure I suggested a lynch on a townie so he could frame me for it? Either way, I sincerely doubt that this post was so long and detailed that it took nearly 2 days to finish. If I were truly scum, him posting that case may have saved a blue.
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i agree whit that, he has been talking about his post for so long its just ridiculous now, i hope its a 50 pages long post
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not much activity since last night i see, why people, WHY!?
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Looks like everyone wanted to play their cards close to the vest tonight. I'm still squarely placing BioSC as scum. A couple thoughts, before night ends and before I've got to leave for the night.
- His playstyle changed as of D3, after mufaa died. Whereas before, we had some reads from now-confirmed townies that he was scummy for playing passive and defensive, all of a sudden he starts to be a lot more (pro)active. This post - + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 04:49 BioSC wrote:Something else I've thought about last night before I went to bed, was the possibility of us 4 discussing/bringing up topics in this day vote (You, Me, Tofu, Anacletus) are all Town, and that the remaining mafia members are the lurkers waiting to come in and swing vote whomever has the most votes at the time. With Tofu's case against me coming up, I highly suspect he will be voting for me, and possibly dragging Anacletus along with him. That would still leave you with the lynch, unless of course votes are swapped.
Say you believe that us 4 are town. You've at least stated that you believe that You, FirmTofu, and Anacletus are town. If you had to lynch a lurker by your own definition, who reads as strongest scum to you? At this point, hitting a lurker feels more right to me, again, tough to say based on my own case against Ana.
It's fine if you read me as scum. I want to prove to town that I'm not. My unvote I hope moves thought in that direction. I feel that if you believe me as scum, I have more to risk by unvoting Anacletus and discussing a lynch on lurkers more than if I kept with my vote on Ana.
It's not something I'm completely 100% sold on, but I feel like the possibility of us 4 being all town needs to come up. - felt slightly out of place. He has a sudden change of heart, now wants to actively look at lurkers, whereas before he'd been busy calling out Anac and I. He has this the day after mufaa gets vigied.
- My thought process on that is that, before Mufaa got shot, D3 was MYLO. All mafia had to do was push one mislynch and they win. It was going to be 5/3, a lynch and a nightkill would give them even numbers and then win. However, the vig shot caught scum off guard and brought the numbers to 5/2. Now D3 is no longer MYLO, and their plans are in trouble. Whereas before, BioSC had been pushing Anac, all of a sudden he stops. Anac may have seemed like an easy target to push for a mislynch, but now if we lynch him and he flips green, the game's not guaranteed anymore.
- That explains the change in playstyle, because whereas before he'd been able to sit back, now mufaa is dead and scum's plans have to change somewhat. He pushes lurkers, and specifically mentions Hyaach before I vote for Hyaach. I'm alright with that lynch, but I don't love that he suggests the target without a vote himself, only joining later. Looking back, should have been more vocal about targeting the one lurker that was in a different time zone and might not jump to his own defense.
- Also, note the people who have been suspicious of BioSC throughout the game. + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2012 12:06 BioSC wrote: Honestly, the people that keep bringing me up are 3. Dahdum, Darkfire, and YOU.
. That was to Anac. We lynched dark, and dahdum got shot N3. Anac, it seems, is a town read for most of us at this point? That's what it looked like with people unvoting him yesterday at least. Which means we've got 2 confirmed town and a townread suspicious of Bio. Tofu mentions this as a possible reason for the N3 kill on dahdum. + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2012 09:39 FirmTofu wrote: I'll be dead by tomorrow, out of necessity for the mafia. It will be one less vote against Bio which I suspect is why they killed dahdum as well
I can work on a more substantial case during D4, but my main reasons for saying that BioSC is confirmed in my eyes is that he seemed scummy to a lot of town before, had that slightly scummy read on him. Then mufaa dies and his playstyle changes immensely. During the course of D3 he becomes helpful, drumming up discussion, suggesting votes, finally voting himself. Whereas before he'd playing so passively and defensively, and had been tunneling Anac for a bit. I think he steers the vote onto lurkers D3 so as not to get either Anac or I lynched D3, which would cause some trouble for him D4 once we flip green. All of a sudden with mufaa dead you don't need 1 mislynch, you've got a get a new strat together that covers two days.
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D3 also weakened my town read on FirmTofu, and here's why.
- Some bits always seemed a little weird. His massive D1 accusation compilation, for instance. + Show Spoiler +. In and of itself, I don't get anything from that. Maybe he's trying to be helpful, maybe he's trying to gum up the thread and create a lot of random discussion topics.
- On D2, he keeps some votes off BioSC. + Show Spoiler +On May 15 2012 07:59 FirmTofu wrote: Unforgiven, please vote Darkfire. This is our only shot. I believe AT LEAST 2/3 votes on BioSC are mafia.
This is all or nothing. On May 15 2012 08:06 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 08:02 Darkfirex5 wrote: now Tofu has the suspicion he really wants me dead, at this point matters less becuse well ow you know he's scummy. I'm onto mafia and even if i pop town when i die you will know who to target. It's over for you mafia, also austincc any response?
Consider this, Day 1 you accused BioSC of mafia with a single-minded focus then Day 2 randomly decided he was town. Then when you were about to be voted to death, you decided to lynch him anyway. How is that not scummy yo? If anything, your death should be attributed solely to you because you've made a very bad case for yourself. . Again, not scummy in and of itself. But if you read BioSC as scum, it looks a little odd.
- Then he and Bio start off D3 early just kind of toying with each other. You give me your reads. No, you give me your reads. Oh stop it you, you go first. Neither hard calling the other out, explicitly, just sort of badgering each other. Perhaps, with mufaa dead, trying to put some distance between each other so even if one drops, the other gains some town cred?
- If that's your take, then the case on Bio doesn't matter at all. You see how D3 works. If town is suspicious of Bio, you post your case, claim some town cred, try to ride it to a solo victory. If they don't, you can still post it, or not, whatever. Anything that puts you and BioSC at odds is good now, because you need to create distance between the two remaining teammates.
- All the speculation about this case, this post, even if it appears and even if FirmTofu is town, has kind of harmed town. It helped to stifle SOME discussion of BioSC on D3, we sort of stopped discussing him waiting on that case (I know I did). It has stifled discussion N4, because nobody really wants to speak up until this thing is posted. No matter what the post contains, no matter how BioSC flips, town has suffered by waiting around for this magical case.
- Lastly, IF you read FirmTofu as scummy at all, then the medic request can feel off. We've seen 2 blues flip. That probably means another in the wings. If it's a medic, there's a decent chance that the NK gets protected. Absolute worst case scenario for mafia, because again, they've been planning for the MYLO day. NK makes it 3/2. A protect would keep us at 4/2, and really mess with plans if we lynch mafia, or another NK got protected, they're really in hot water. So by asking for the medic protect on himself, which is entirely reasonable given that we mostly read him as town, he can ensure that it won't be elsewhere and that tonight's shot doesn't get protted.
I am still mulling a BioSC/FirmTofu team over in my head. It's tough for me to fully come around on Firm, and to believe we had town lurking so hard and being inactive. But there's some odd interaction between the two after mufaa flips, and it shouldn't be overlooked. Literally woke up last night and started thinking about this, but wanted to wait and post. Again, waiting on Firm's post or case or excuses or anything has robbed town of any N4 discussion we may/may not have had.
This is posted in a bit of a rush before i have to leave, so let me know if anything in these two posts seems out of place. If the pieces don't fit. Heck, let me know if anyone else has been having similar suspicions.
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EBWOP: Forgot a point on Tofu.
- He notes that dahdum was suspicious of BioSC, and that might have been a reason to NK dahdum. However, dahdum was suspicious of BOTH of them, and in fact, brought up the possibility of the two being a team.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2012 13:34 dahdum wrote: @FirmTofu - I noticed your play style this game is much more guarded than in the last game, and you were less active in this one early on (busy in QT?). When rereading your filters from both, it seems to me you are trying to be pro-town without really putting yourself out in front. Last game you also made a suspicion list (most to least) yourself as Town, yet flip out when I do the same in this game. Care to comment on this change in gameplay?
That accusation list must have taken a lot of effort, and looks pro-town, but how does it really help us? What did you unearth from that? Would you vote for BioSC?
On May 15 2012 13:45 dahdum wrote:
@BioSC - What is your read on FirmTofu? I'm convinced one or both of you is mafia, so I would find your thoughts interesting.
Also, other than that who would you vote for right now?
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You guys made really great posts - and I was about to begin writing the post that I promised - but I believe you guys have put my sentiments out there prior - suspicions towards BioSC and FirmTofu.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 4!!! Game Over!!!
FirmTofu, Vigilante has been Shot! austinmcc, Vanilla Townie has been Shot!
BioSC and Anacletus have been endgamed!! Crossfire99 and Unforgiven_ve have successfully defeated town!!
Thanks for playing everyone!
+ Show Spoiler [Role List and Night Actions] +Role List:
1.BroodKingEXE 1 Shot Cop 2.Mufaa Godfather 3.austinmcc Vanilla Town 4.ShiaoPi Vanilla Town 5.Jailbreaker 1 Shot Vigilante 6.Dahdum Vanilla Town 7.Darkfirex5 Vanilla Town 8.Crossfire99 Goon 9.FirmTofu Vigilante 10. Unforgiven_ve Roleblocker 11.BioSC Vanilla Town 12.Anacletus Vanilla Town 13.Hyaach Vanilla Town becomes 1 Shot Vigilante once Jailbreaker is modkilled
Night Actions:
Night 1: Unforgiven_ve Roleblocks Hyaach Mafia shoot ShiaoPi
Night 2: Unforgiven_ve Roleblocks Hyaach Hyaach Shoots Dahdum Mafia Shoot Dahdum FirmTofu Shoots Mufaa
Night 3: Unforgiven_ve Roleblocks austinmcc Mafia Shoot Firmtofu FirmTofu Shoots austinmcc
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
rofl gg
I had unforgiven as town after his girlfriend sex comment
must remember hilarious/cool != town
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well played crossfire and unforgiven
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Figures. The 3 lurkers all game were the mafia. My read on us all 4 being town was right. The mislynch on Hyaach sealed it.
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Of course, I can blame lurking all I want. Mafia didn't even have to do anything. Town basically killed itself.
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That's annoying. I was still working through the filters in preparation for LYLO
Turns out BioSC was right about the four townies. Shame he picked the wrong lurker.
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Turning point in the game was the lurker lynch. Austin was completely right about when calling out the lurkers, they immediately came out worried. Looking back, he was absolutely right. Too bad I couldn't extend my town read to the mafia. Seriously... 2/3 chance to get it right...
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On May 19 2012 08:12 BioSC wrote: Of course, I can blame lurking all I want. Mafia didn't even have to do anything. Town basically killed itself.
this is true, but we lurked not because we wanted, it was really real life fucking it up. Day 3 lynch i really declined some action just to play lol.
My roleblock to Hyaach for 2 days was just gosu skill ;D
GG everyone
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Unforgiven_ve Roleblocks Hyaach Hyaach Shoots Dahdum Mafia Shoot Dahdum FirmTofu Shoots Mufaa
i never thought it could be 2 vigilantes in the game :S
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Wow. watched this thing since 4 days ago and i never had my money on Unforgiven. Tofu and Bio, and Hyvaach to some extent seemed like they were scummy, even after there was only 2 scum left.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Tofu shouldn't have said he was gonna post a big case and then continually not. that's not good.
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On May 19 2012 09:04 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 08:12 BioSC wrote: Of course, I can blame lurking all I want. Mafia didn't even have to do anything. Town basically killed itself. this is true, but we lurked not because we wanted, it was really real life fucking it up. Day 3 lynch i really declined some action just to play lol. My roleblock to Hyaach for 2 days was just gosu skill ;D GG everyone
I honestly believe we had a shot to win if we would have lynched one of you two day 3.
UGH I'm gonna go be depressed for a while.
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Wow. I wasn't expecting that to end n3 lol. Hopefully buddying up to Austin threw you guys off a bit. I was expecting to get Vig'd n3 or 4 since I was trying to stay near the top of everyones radar without ever being a lynch target but when you hit me n2 I got really scared that the remaining mafia were lurking so hardcore. Thankfully for us the towns overall level of activity was so low that it wasn't really suspicious to coast by on one-liners and light analysis.
GG everyone, hopefully this will teach people the level of activity required for a game of mafia so we don't have such a passive town in the future.
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Jesus, that was well played. I was so suspicious of lurkers, but every time town got active I'd also get suspicious of some townies as well. At first I figured something was up when both of you guys popped up after I was calling you out, but those final posts were honest and I'd kind of backed off you.
Unforgiven, you did a really nice job and came off much townier compared to our other lurkers. I don't think I would have ended up pegging you for scum, with bio, firm, and crossfire all being higher on my radar.
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Tofu, did you send in that shot before my last couple posts or after?
I've got some postgame thoughts and questions, but would love to see obs qt if there was one, or any postgame thoughts from more experienced players, before posting them.
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Ill be along with some analysis on each player some time in the next 24 hours.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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On May 19 2012 09:08 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i never thought it could be 2 vigilantes in the game :S I thought maybe you'd figured it given that you shot Tofu. Tofu being a real multi-shot vig was the only solution that didn't require either him or Hyaach to be a complete idiot. Failing to post a case overnight like that is a strong red/blue tell, and you knew Tofu wasn't scum. Did you think he was DT instead?
Of course I just assumed that Hyaach was newbie vig and Tofu was scum
Pretty funny that Hyaach's vig breadcrumb was entirely false until he inherited the vig status from Jailbreaker.
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I really enjoyed playing, and appreciate you guys hosting newbie games. REALLY started feeling noobish after pushing lynches on some townies and then hitting D3 where we just...didn't have as much info as we'd have liked.
Well played all, nice work mafia, looks like we were all pretty content to find each other suspicious and not keep pressuring you guys. I'm guessing we could have done better with the info we had, but you guys really didn't give up much and we didn't get a lot in the way of info out of our blue roles to close that gap.
At least in my head, that's my biggest takeaway for our town play. We had activity some days, not others, but really just never had anything concrete to work off of. I know that we shouldn't be reliant on our blue roles, and we did get our only scum kill off of hyaach's shot, but I felt like we didn't get much in the way of info from them. If everyone is suspicious and nobody is confirmed come D3, should we be looking to claim, even if you're not an info role, just to try and confirm a few townies? With good breadcrumbs or sensible claims, I feel like we maybe could have come up with a better lynch target than "Pick a lurker" (although man we got a little "unlucky"). I'm sure we could have reasoned through the lynch better, but if we'd have even just one blue confirmed it would have helped. I know the obs QT wasn't terrible active, but it didn't seem like the active observers nailed the scumteam either. Combination of good mafia play and town inactivity? Or mainly one of those?
Personally, I feel like I didn't play all that well. I think I was overly spammy at some points, but when I tried to cut back on that I ended up not posting at all. The mislynches I'm okay with, I thought I had decent reads and we had some agreement from others there. But I don't think I had a consistent idea of how I wanted to approach the game and play. D1 I tunneled hard on brood, D2 I tried to pull back and not push so hard for a darkfire lynch, and by the time D3 rolled around and crossfire was my top read, I just didn't want to push it because I knew I'd been wrong twice. Couldn't find any kind of sweet spot of exactly how much to trust myself, how vocal to be, and especially how to play the endgame.
Sorry to Brood for pushing you so hard D1. Sorry Anac for ignoring some of your posts. But thanks all for making it enjoyable.
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On May 20 2012 03:01 austinmcc wrote: I know that we shouldn't be reliant on our blue roles, and we did get our only scum kill off of hyaach's shot, but I felt like we didn't get much in the way of info from them. If everyone is suspicious and nobody is confirmed come D3, should we be looking to claim, even if you're not an info role, just to try and confirm a few townies?
Hyaach didn't get the scum kill, Tofu did. Which was the problem. Hyaach couldn't claim because it wasn't his kill, and Tofu didn't want to claim because he was a multi-shot vig and he wasn't under much pressure.
I don't think you'd get far by massclaiming because fakeclaiming is so easy in C9++. Claimers had better have good logic and preferably proof behind their claim. Roleblocks should have been claimed at least though.
And yeah, if your blue roles don't give you anything, you're almost certainly going to lose unless the scum team played horribly.
With good breadcrumbs or sensible claims, I feel like we maybe could have come up with a better lynch target than "Pick a lurker" (although man we got a little "unlucky"). I'm sure we could have reasoned through the lynch better, but if we'd have even just one blue confirmed it would have helped. I know the obs QT wasn't terrible active, but it didn't seem like the active observers nailed the scumteam either. Combination of good mafia play and town inactivity? Or mainly one of those?
The scumteam didn't do much wrong, but they weren't under a lot of pressure. I think earlier in the game they were preparing for a Mufaa bus, but they did a good job on that. Mufaa didn't leave much of use in his filter either.
Scum did give you a good shot at winning the game through their lurking. If you'd picked one of the two scum lurkers, they'd have had little chance of dodging the hit because of their lack of influence. Note that with a lurker lynch, it's really important to pick the lurker yourself, otherwise scum could easily pick a town lurker for you.
BKE and Hyaach were both playing very blue, which unfortunately made them good lynches in a town that lacked obviously scummy play (apart from Anacletus' early stuff). Defensive claiming would at least have given them good alibis. Didn't like the look of the Darkfire lynch much, but day 2 was an activity disaster anyway.
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You helped us a lot, thanks anacletus! ;D Maybe if town were a little more active and whitout the modkill you would have a victory. I personally didnt felt much pressure, thanks to the slow weekend and mothers day. The lucky shot from SHaopi on me, made our target easier. He was the first i proposed even before N1 came.
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On May 20 2012 03:47 jaj22 wrote:
Hyaach didn't get the scum kill, Tofu did. Which was the problem. Hyaach couldn't claim because it wasn't his kill, and Tofu didn't want to claim because he was a multi-shot vig and he wasn't under much pressure.
Sumtiems ah reed gud. Didn't go back and check the actions today and had that wrong.
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Do OP alwats post the QT of mafia at the end of the game?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Ahh.. sad times for us townies I guess. But activity (or lack thereof) really punished us I guess. Could the OP post the QT of Mafia? I would be really interested in it
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Ok, so I just got back from being away and I am glad we won. GG everybody. Honestly austin I wasn't trying to lurk. Life just got crazy. I was planning on being decently active day 2 and on, but then everything went downhill as for time to play the game. Things I couldn't plan for and didn't know were going to happen occurred. You can see how much the mafia qt dropped in activity after night 1.
Also, does anyone who is not a newbie actually know whether it is a good idea for town to freely discuss in the night? Probulous still hasn't got back to me lol.
I'll answer any questions if anyone has any. Also, does anyone (players or observers) have any advice for me? I do know I shouldn't lurk that much. It was just unavoidable, though.
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On May 21 2012 06:07 Crossfire99 wrote: Also, does anyone who is not a newbie actually know whether it is a good idea for town to freely discuss in the night? Probulous still hasn't got back to me lol.
In a mini you normally take any activity you can get as town. It's not quite as useful at night because of the lack of voting, but until there's too much to read properly, it's all good.
There is an argument that townies should avoid giving too much information (especially town reads) so that it's harder for scum to manipulate them, but that's a separate issue and heavily dependent on personal style.
Also, does anyone (players or observers) have any advice for me? I do know I shouldn't lurk that much. It was just unavoidable, though.
I didn't have anything against you apart from the lurking. You didn't look scummy in tone and you didn't trip up on your agenda. I've seen plenty worse (and successful) scum play in veteran games.
Your last in-game post was scummy though. In that situation it looks like a "should I kill you?" post. As town you should be giving your own opinion on Austin vs Bio first.
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It's fine cross, nothing personal. Just really easy to see how lurking can make for a bad town environment. Was frustrating in-game, but that's just in-game, and besides, way more difficult to get upset over it at all knowing that you were mafia. Great town environment wasn't exactly conducive to your win condition.
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i have to be honest, our best mafia play was...Anacletus, lol.
Also, same question cross did. any advice for me? besides the obvious redacting problem. it takes 25 minutes to make a paragraph post for me hehe
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On May 22 2012 00:07 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i have to be honest, our best mafia play was...Anacletus, lol.
Also, same question cross did. any advice for me? besides the obvious redacting problem. it takes 25 minutes to make a paragraph post for me hehe
Given you were the least suspicious of the mafia, it would have to be said you played quite well!
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My sincere apologies to both Crossfire and Radfield. I managed to disappear in the middle of a game which is unnaceptable. You both deserved better from me.
I haven't caught up on how the game went but I will take a read and let you know my thoughts.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5954 Posts
Wow I really was number one on your hitlist :D
I also got the same question as all of us, any particular advice on my play?
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Perhaps this would be better PMed, but I'll go ahead and ask it here.
For the vets/coaches, would there be any major changes in playstyle between a mini game and a full game and/or a game with PMs? Seems like you're basically doing the same thing, but what would you say the biggest difference is to keep in mind between a mini and a full game?
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My only regret in this game is not being able to see Tofu's post about me xD
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I am putting together an analysis but am hellish busy right now.
It will come and it will have my thoughts on each player. Then you can fire questions at me to get further insight. Just bare in mind that people play this game differently so my thoughts are not necessarily the only ones that count
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On May 24 2012 04:57 austinmcc wrote: For the vets/coaches, would there be any major changes in playstyle between a mini game and a full game and/or a game with PMs? Seems like you're basically doing the same thing, but what would you say the biggest difference is to keep in mind between a mini and a full game? The natural activity level for a game with twice the player count is over four times as high, so posting a lot can become a bad thing, particularly if you're talking about subjects that are unproductive or unimportant. Even if people aren't spamming, you'll have to read a lot more to keep up with the game.
It's also less important in large games for everyone to be making their own unique cases. There's still only one lynch, so you don't need more than 3-4 good cases per day. Dissuading other townies from shitting up the thread, getting newbie lurkers engaged and generally keeping town on the right track can be as important as scumhunting.
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Dam. I just finished reading Newbie Mafia II. Probulous from Godlike Newb to Coach. + Show Spoiler +
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On May 24 2012 15:52 Release wrote:Dam. I just finished reading Newbie Mafia II. Probulous from Godlike Newb to Coach. + Show Spoiler +
I never understood why people have this impression of me. I just read the guides and followed their advice. This is a team game and having people play as a team is crucial to success. That game I fucked up majorly and lead the town into a bad lynch which lost us the game. Not so godly in my opinion.
Still working on the write up of this game. Overall impression is that mafia were given lee way because the townies went batshit crazy.
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dont' want to derail thread+ Show Spoiler +you missed cephiro, but despite that, still caught Sheth. you played your DT role quite well, not letting anyone know if there was a DT or not, but using the information quite well. The catch on Cats was very good and could have potentially saved the town, but i think Cats was just too inexperienced to capitalize on that. some more but In short, you helped the town survive much longer than it would have without you.
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Ok now that is out the way time to actually add something to this game. My analysis will be long and it will be thorough. There is a TLDR if you want it.
General Thoughts My impression of this game is one where town got sidetracked and let mafia play with them. Scum can hide if town is confused and accusing themselves. The best situation for mafia is when they can post stuff without making themselves obvious. To avoid giving scum a free ride I aim to do three things
- Prove my innocence
- Find other townies
- Lynch scum
It seems obvious but in this game hardly anyone managed to do the first, there were far too many people who never attempted the second and obviously you never achieved the third. The reason for this is because everyone looked suspicious come end game. Ultimately mafia is a team game with town not knowing who is on their side. You still have to try and play as a team otherwise mafia can play you off against each other. That is why proving your innocence is so important because it allows others to put some credence into what you are saying.
So how do you prove your innocence? Be active, be clear and most importantly above all else be open. I will take Anacletus as an example here but he was by no means the only one who was mystical in their approach to this game.
On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. This has been over before by the other town members but it is pretty obvious that all this does is sow confusion. Now that may have been the plan. Some players like to create odd situations and then read reactions, my problem with this style is that is fucks over everyone else. It confuses town, doesn't attempt to scum hunt and sidetracks everyone. Worse it is likely to lead to your misslynch unless you come up with some concrete results. That being said I had Anacletus labelled as town early for exactly this reason.
He was all over the place and then he edited a post and kept making zero sense. His posts read as a townie trying to be clever but failing miserably. Remember scum have can have an easy game if they don't get noticed. Particularly in newbie games. It is really hard playing an active scum. I know because I have to play that style given my meta and I suck at it. So, especially day 1, if someone is openly putting themselves out there in strange ways, they get a null read in my book. They do not get labelled scum until they do something that could not come from a dumb townie.
I am somewhat lucky in that I had both townies and scum to coach. Compare Anacletus' first substantial post to Crossfire's
On May 11 2012 00:23 Crossfire99 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't understand why everyone is not liking Firmtofu's first post + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again ><
I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. .He posted less than an hour into the day and he makes a reference to a previous game. I don't know what happened in the previous game, but it seems like dahdum was mafia and Firmtofu wasn't and that the town lost (I infer this from his little >< face). It seems like he is complimenting dahdum's play and hopes they are on the same side. What's bad about that? As for his lynching lurkers stance, he was like one of the first posts, so no one really posted and it seems he was stating that we should wait to judge people until they posted. If people still lurked after a while then he seems to support lynching the lurkers. This isn't a terrible stance if I am interpreting him correctly, so I want clarification from him on this, though. As for me, I am only in favor of lynching lurkers as an absolute last resort. I feel we need to do our best scumhunting and if we do a good job, we can lynch a scum. Right now I am suspicious of Anacletus. He comes in and votes for Firmtofu as his first post with no explanation, but then gives this terrible reason for voting in his next post + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no?
But if he's town, shit. He basically says he is just bandwagoning and not thinking for himself and this is just terrible. He then questions why Hyaach voted for him and defends himself with this + Show Spoiler +On May 10 2012 23:41 Anacletus wrote:It was for a misspell. I don't understand what your line about FirmTofu is saying, it makes no sense. I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean. . He goes on theorizing about how mafia would play day 1. How do you know that they want to play like? Honestly I think people who are vocal in the thread, but don't through their vote around willy-nilly and don't just follow whatever the current train is in the thread are smart. It's the poeple who vote without any good reason who are suspicious to me. What say you Anacletus?
Note he has an easy time establishing his rational presence by pointing the idiocy of lynching someone based off an obvious joke. Then he has a go at softly attacking the main target at this time (Anacletus). First posts are a bitch for mafia because you are establishing your persona. Crossfire was given way too much easy stuff to work with. Based solely on this post he was immediately put into the "probably town" category of a few people. You cannot let scum do this.
So, to prove your innocence you need to be open and clear. Anacletus was the exact opposite and was always a possible lynch target. Crossfire was clear and he was never up for lynch until the last day and even then it was a weak push without real conviction. That is the power that town needs, that is why confusion is a cancer. That is why proving your innocence is the most important thing.
The lynches Day 1 Firstly, Brood you should have claimed. I know town wasn't being rational but logically if you claimed cop then your role could be confirmed. If you survived that lynch you could crumb your night check and see what happens day 2. If you get shot overnight, town effectively traded a lynch for a scum hit which is awesome. You would have given Shiapi another day to play. If you didn't get shot you would have more information which you could claim. You were a one shot deal so there was no point in hiding. Remember scum would have to guess whether you would be medic protected.
If you believed you would get lynched anyway, why not claim? It was your last shot at surviving and you didn't take it.
That being said that lynch was really weird. There was some excellent posting for example FirmTofu made this post (Klicky) which is an example of someone establishing their credibility. I also had Dark as a possible candidate for exactly those reasons. Tofu was top of my town list day 1. The only problem was his speculation about how they were linked. I also had BioSC and dahdum as town.
I had Brood as scum for this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=5#87
What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum and this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=7#130
On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon.
The first is impossible to respond to because it was obvious Firm was joking. In addition it makes sense to evaluate people's posts before coming to conclusion. Therefore they have to post. This looked to me like someone trying to start something from nothing. Especially that you followed it with a vote. The second one Shiapi wrote a huge post where he outlined his reads. This post just looks like an attempt to undermine Shiapi especially with the "scumwagon" bit. So in that respect I had the same read as town day 1.
If Brood had claimed I would have pushed for a no-lynch Day 1.
Finally it is worth noting that none of the mafia would pressured day 1. There were some rumblings about mufaa but nothing that forced him to do anything. Similarly Crossfire and Unforgiven just breezed through day 1 without making any noise. Look at the vote count just before the final one (Klicky). None of the mafia voted early, they didn't need too because they were not being held to account.
Day 2 There was discussion around posting at night. I don't have a particular persuasion on this. My original position is that using night is the same as using day in that it gives you more to analyse. It fosters discussion which helps with determining people's alignment. That was until I read a game where mafia used the night discussion to sway their choice of shot. I don't think that either position is indicative of alignment. I will say that scum tend to be more active at night because they are not afraid of dying. In addition it means they can contribute long before the lynch looms. Note that there was a whole section where Crossfire and Unforgiven went back and forth. Two people who had no presence day 1.
Jailbreaker being modkilled was a bummer. Do yourself a favour and look at this thread in the "All" view. You will note that the scrollbar is half way when Night 1 hits. That tells you that half the posts for the entire game came before the first night. Not good. This was a good post from Unforgiven (Klicky). Creates suspicion around austin in a lefit way. Being certain how many scum there are is not something town can do. It was clearly a mistake but Unforgiven did well to pounce on it.
Mufaa sealed his case by not posting enough. People were getting suspicious of him and he did nothing about it. Anacletus came in with a strange case on BioSC and Tofu both I had pegged as town day 1. It's actually a great case for why mufaa was scum but he gets off with no read? (Klicky)
Mufaa: I don't like how very early on his posts contained no assertions of mafia. I felt like he was just trying to stay clean and not put any pressure on himself until the very end of the day in which he voted for BKE. I also find his defense of me very fishy in that "Ana is probably just town" sort of thing. That being said this was an attempt to organise town and get things moving. He firmed as green in my book. So by this stage I had Ana, Bio and dahdum as town. There was also some serious WIFOM from Ana which just confuses things (Klicky).
Ok the rest of the day was spent with Ana and Bio going at it. The problem was that no-one else was seriously considered as a candidate for the lynch. This always rings alarm bells for me. If two people dominate the thread and no-one is suggesting other candidates it is highly likely that they are town. Scum can sit back, pitch in tit-bits here and there and just laugh. Remember town doesn't know who is scum so acting like you do is detrimental. You have to be open to reconsidering your position which neither of these two did. Why Bio was scummy is beyond me. He was open and aggressive early and pretty rational. Ana was just off the chart. Look at this, it was right in the middle of the back and forth
On May 14 2012 15:24 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Sup people, sorry i've been away. But i was very busy this weekend and Mothers day today didnt helped. i did read some of the post and i have a couple htings to point out, but im so tired, its 1:50am and i just got home. i will be posting tomorrow. Post for post sake with a promise of future contributions. But it was missed because no-one was looking elsewhere.
Dahdum as far as I could tell, the only case you made against Bio was this (Klicky) which says that he was non-commital early day 1? You promised a follow up case which never eventuated. I don't know why Bio got lynched but he did. Again, scum didn't have to do or say anything. They could for themselves with little care about being held accountable for their actions, Unforgiven did it day 1, so why not both of them day 2?
Austin put together his case on Darkfire which seemed to be based off of frustration rather than scummy play. Notably this post (Klicky) looks like you wanted him to post because you thought he might be town. The problem was everyone was lurking so targeted one of the few people actually posting. Again this comes back to establishing innocence, if you don't post, especially after day 1, you are actively hurting town and so should be high on the priority list for death. Dark was at least attempting to defend himself.
In short, absence killed you this day. Hardly anyone was posting and what was being posted was weak. If you are going to use your vote, think about it. The fact that Dark got lynched with 3 votes is beyond terrible. In a non-majority lynch game your vote is extra special and so you should use it carefully.
Day 3 Great shot on mufaa. Town got into trouble by again focusing on those who were posting. Mufaa lurked most the game and was mafia, why not the others? Early in the day no-one was convinced Anacletus was scum. Austin, Tofu and Bio all thought he just misguided or just ignored him. But because he was around he was looked at again. I guess the moral of the story is learn from your success. You shot a lurker and he was scum. There were other lurkers who were posting enough to get by without actually contributing. Text book mafia.
austin, you played well this game but what happened with you changing from Crossfire to Hyaach? Your reasoning for voting for Hyaach was
The ONLY reason I'm not entirely sold on Hyaach is his no-vote. When we already saw Jailbreaker get modkilled, a no-vote from a scummy player feels like way too large of a risk to take which is saying he is town. Then he doesn't appear so he confirms as scum? It's bad reasoning and the others jumped to it. You mentioned that crossfire and unforgiven were around so you gave them leeway but crossfire said absolutely nothing. Like nothing other than he would change his vote from Ana. Lurking is not just being absent, it is not contributing. I know you had to take a guess but your reason for letting crossfire off the hook was odd.
Hyaach's lynch was really strange because there was no opposition to it. Tofu came in the end to point it out but it was too late. Then austin looked bad and got shot by Tofu. It was a strange ending to a strange game. The fact that mafia sailed through without really causing a fuss shows you that town was never really organised.
Awards Townieest townie This goes to both FirmTofu and austin which is ironic given one shot the other. You both looked town from day 1 and drove discussion. I think you would have benefited from having people actually critique your cases rather than sheeping them
Scummiest scum Unforgiven_ve gets this. He managed to vote for himself twice and yet was never really considered a candidate for lynch. All round well played.
Dumbest moments of the game Dark getting lynched with 3 votes. Seriously how is that possible?
Best moment FirmTofu shooting mufaa
I could go on but soon I would have written more than most of you did in this game.
TLDR - Town got screwed because they never established a set of "confirmed" townies. No-one is ever 100% confirmed but you were all suspecting each other all game long which meant mafia could easily blend in. Inactivity in the mid-end game made you focus on those posting and that lead to far too many mis-lynches. I think everyone town aligned needs to focus on establishing their innocence first. Playing "games" with people just leads to confusion and an easy ride for mafia.
Any questions, fire away!
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Thanks for the thoughts Probulous. Confirming townies felt very difficult, I guess a combination of being new to this/having low activity/no roleclaims. Seemed to tunnel way too hard once I thought someone was mafia, and be absolutely willing to change my mind on people like Firm who I'd read as town.
I can't really give a good reason for the switch off Crossfire. Apart from thinking Anac was town, I had lynched Brood and darkfire, thought dahdum was scummy, and thought Mufaa was slightly towny. Once I'd been wrong that many times, I lost confidence in my reads and didn't push for Crossfire because he actually responded to the questions I asked when I called out lurkers, whereas Hyaach didn't. Not a good reason, and it got worse throughout the day because I actually had reservations about lynching Hyaach due to the time zone difference and what I thought had been a vigi breadcrumb, yet was still willing to vote for him because...don't know. Just got overly frustrated.
As a question, would you say that we had a bad idea of what "scummy" behavior was? I read the guides, but it seemed that I didn't keep them in mind fully once the game started. Looking back, I feel like some of the things that felt scummy to me such as timing of posts and little contradictions shouldn't have seemed scummy when compared to the lurking/self-votes.
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Thanks for the summary Probulous! Also, your best moment of the game never happened. FirmTofu shot Mufaa. We had Hyaach roleblocked which was funny because he would have shot dahdum who we shot anyway.
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On May 25 2012 10:51 Probulous wrote: Townieest townie This goes to both FirmTofu and austin which is ironic given one shot the other. You both looked town from day 1 and drove discussion. I think you would have benefited from having people actually critique your cases rather than sheeping them
That reminds me. There's a remarkable lack of case-critique in most newbie games. Cases usually have points that are valid and points that are not, and need detailed criticism for improvement. Don't just leave the target to reply, because they'll be biased.
What often happens is that people either accept a case whole or ignore it entirely. Both of these options are scummy.
On May 25 2012 10:51 Probulous wrote: Best moment Hyaach shooting mufaa
Tofu shot mufaa
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On May 25 2012 11:14 austinmcc wrote: Thanks for the thoughts Probulous. Confirming townies felt very difficult, I guess a combination of being new to this/having low activity/no roleclaims. Seemed to tunnel way too hard once I thought someone was mafia, and be absolutely willing to change my mind on people like Firm who I'd read as town.
I can't really give a good reason for the switch off Crossfire. Apart from thinking Anac was town, I had lynched Brood and darkfire, thought dahdum was scummy, and thought Mufaa was slightly towny. Once I'd been wrong that many times, I lost confidence in my reads and didn't push for Crossfire because he actually responded to the questions I asked when I called out lurkers, whereas Hyaach didn't. Not a good reason, and it got worse throughout the day because I actually had reservations about lynching Hyaach due to the time zone difference and what I thought had been a vigi breadcrumb, yet was still willing to vote for him because...don't know. Just got overly frustrated.
As a question, would you say that we had a bad idea of what "scummy" behavior was? I read the guides, but it seemed that I didn't keep them in mind fully once the game started. Looking back, I feel like some of the things that felt scummy to me such as timing of posts and little contradictions shouldn't have seemed scummy when compared to the lurking/self-votes.
I am not the greatest at building a convincing case against someone and following it through. I generally get a summy vibe from someone but can't determine why. I think the one time I did this really well was when I was scum and the target was on a different team (See my case on [UoN]Sentinel from Werewolves II, its in my profile). I also let TheToast off the hook for doing a blatantly scummy thing when I was an SK in Wiggles Mini Mafia II.
In the first instance I caught Sentinel because he was undermining my case with really bad reasoning. It was subtle and had no basis in reason. So I started thinking, "why post that?" and then I realised that no townie would undermine another townie's case without some reason. That was how I figured him out.
With Toast, on day 1 we had a tied vote in a plurality lynch (like this game) so either Misder or sandroba was going to be lynched but he voted for Pandain. This effectively sealed Misder's lynch without having to vote for Misder, plus sandroba turned out to be scum. Unfortunately I let him go in the end which was a really dumb move.
In each case I noticed something that didn't make sense from a town point of view. The motivation behind the actions was scummy. I think in newbie games it easy to get caught up in how badly people play. You have to try and see what agenda they are pushing, are they trying to find scum? Are they taking responsibility for their actions? Do they look like they want town to win?
Your early read on Anacletus was really good. Your logic that he was at least trying and was being open about his reads is exactly right.
Crossfire was a classic case of scum playing off of bad town play. To his credit he knew that posting just enough to avoid suspicion would win the game. You had some good cases and were one of a few willing to look in other places. You just needed others to actually debate with you.
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On May 25 2012 11:14 austinmcc wrote: Thanks for the thoughts Probulous. Confirming townies felt very difficult, I guess a combination of being new to this/having low activity/no roleclaims. Seemed to tunnel way too hard once I thought someone was mafia, and be absolutely willing to change my mind on people like Firm who I'd read as town.
If a townie doesn't push a lynch hard, you'll just end up with scum's choice of lynches. Overall I'd say that your balance between tunnelling and self-doubt was about right. Certainly a lot better than mine.
Getting strong town reads out of this game was genuinely tough. That's not always the case, even in newbie games. Check out Student Mafia for an extreme counter-example.
As a question, would you say that we had a bad idea of what "scummy" behavior was?
Only the people who thought you were scum, IMO
There's a danger of confirmation bias here. The scummy things that scum did in this game you'll see from townies in other games, and vice versa. In the end, townies played too scummy in this game and so finding scum was pot luck.
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