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I'm all for further discussion, just interpreted that as wanting to lay out a concrete plan, which worried me.
I don't have anything more to add to the case, other than Brood's response posts didn't do anything for me. He's yet to really post a defense. He sort of called me out as scummy, but didn't push that at all.
However, I think the overall behavior today supports a lynch of Brood over Anac. Think about these possible scenarios:
Anac is mafia, Brood is town. Someone jumps in with a case against another player. It makes sense, has some analysis there. If you're mafia, don't you jump on that? Don't you try as hard as you can to swing the vote towards Brood over Anac, pushing for a wagon as hard as you can? Why, if Anac is mafia and Brood isn't, would we not see more people coming in, sheeping my posts, pushing Brood hard? (Yeah, I'm pushing Brood. No, I'm not mafia. Just defending and pushing my own case and read, rather than jumping on an already-present wagon).
Anac is town, Brood is mafia. You've got anac swinging, you've all but ensured a mislynch D1, you're sitting pretty as mafia. Then a case comes out on Brood. Wtf. Not good. Bury it, don't respond to it, stifle discussion, keep your sights on Anac. Until there's a critical amount of pressure, you don't have to do anything. But above all, you wait and you see what happens, and you start planning your responds.
Both are mafia. Well, you're just probably boned. If town's two strongest reads are 2/3 your team, enjoy the loss. No way can you present a third candidate in time and hope for a mislynch.
Both are town. Who cares? No way is town lynching mafia, you can sit back and relax.
The response so far basically fits into almost any of those categories. No big pushing response. The ONE category that the response doesn't fit is Anac scum and Brood town. If that were the case, mafia should be trying so hard to start a wagon rolling. But they're not. So to me, the case AND the response fit Brood being scum (not counting the scenario where both are town and a mislynch is guaranteed). Just consider that. How would you expect the scumteam to play this, and has that actually happened? They're not giving us a lot to work with here, waiting things out and not slipping up within the last few hours. But is that lack of content a tell in and of itself?
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
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On May 12 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote:
I'm all for further discussion, just interpreted that as wanting to lay out a concrete plan, which worried me.
I don't have anything more to add to the case, other than Brood's response posts didn't do anything for me. He's yet to really post a defense. He sort of called me out as scummy, but didn't push that at all.
However, I think the overall behavior today supports a lynch of Brood over Anac. Think about these possible scenarios:
Anac is mafia, Brood is town. Someone jumps in with a case against another player. It makes sense, has some analysis there. If you're mafia, don't you jump on that? Don't you try as hard as you can to swing the vote towards Brood over Anac, pushing for a wagon as hard as you can? Why, if Anac is mafia and Brood isn't, would we not see more people coming in, sheeping my posts, pushing Brood hard? (Yeah, I'm pushing Brood. No, I'm not mafia. Just defending and pushing my own case and read, rather than jumping on an already-present wagon).
Anac is town, Brood is mafia. You've got anac swinging, you've all but ensured a mislynch D1, you're sitting pretty as mafia. Then a case comes out on Brood. Wtf. Not good. Bury it, don't respond to it, stifle discussion, keep your sights on Anac. Until there's a critical amount of pressure, you don't have to do anything. But above all, you wait and you see what happens, and you start planning your responds.
Both are mafia. Well, you're just probably boned. If town's two strongest reads are 2/3 your team, enjoy the loss. No way can you present a third candidate in time and hope for a mislynch.
Both are town. Who cares? No way is town lynching mafia, you can sit back and relax.
The response so far basically fits into almost any of those categories. No big pushing response. The ONE category that the response doesn't fit is Anac scum and Brood town. If that were the case, mafia should be trying so hard to start a wagon rolling. But they're not. So to me, the case AND the response fit Brood being scum (not counting the scenario where both are town and a mislynch is guaranteed). Just consider that. How would you expect the scumteam to play this, and has that actually happened? They're not giving us a lot to work with here, waiting things out and not slipping up within the last few hours. But is that lack of content a tell in and of itself?
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
Incredibly insightful, sir. Upon this note and that I am still being voted for I'd like to re-assert that I am NOT mafia.
##Unvote
##Vote BroodKingEXE
What is the FOS ##name thing about? I've tried to find an answer, and I've either overlooked FOS somewhere or it stands for something I don't know
I'd just like to reassert that since I have a majority of votes on me - either the mafia is voting with you guys making it seem like a majority of town is voting, or they aren't in which case you might want to look at who else is being voted for. My opinion as of right now is that mafia is voting unanimously, so everyone should take a moment and note what the vote counts are for future use. In the case I get hung please assume that they voted unanimously and go from there as you'll see I am a townie upon my death.
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I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
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On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote:
I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
What is QT?
I think I still have 6-7 votes on me with 3-4 on BKE and 2-3 undecided - I could be wrong, but I'm trying to account for the swing votes in association with the last official vote count.
This vote count ISN'T official - just trying to give you a rough estimate so you don't have to spend extra time looking back.
Yes - I agree 100% that I'm just getting bandwagoned by mafia at this point. Receiving 8 votes off day 1 is just ridiculous and as stated before I think that they are voting unanimously at this point.
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On May 12 2012 05:07 BroodKingEXE wrote:
The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum.
In the first bolded passage, you say it doesn't make you look scummy. Yet - I think it does
- ShiaoPi seems to think it does
- Hyaach seems to think it does
- Bio has his suspicions raised by it
- Crossfire will keep his eye on you
That's 5 people. Not quite half of the players in the game. Most of the players who have been active today. And your response to all those people questioning you is to say the case "doesn't make you look scummy"? Clearly there's something there. If you really think that the case doesn't make you look scummy, then why does everyone else seem to think otherwise?
As to the second post, you're going to "call out others." Great. When are you going to do that? I see that you tried, you posted two weak reads in hopes of shifting the discussion. What was the response to those reads?
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:42 ShiaoPi wrote:BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this: + Show Spoiler +Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy.
Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me.
BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. )
You throw out a few names. Write a sentence or two. Really calling them out there. It didn't convince ShiaoPi; it doesn't convince me. You claim my case doesn't make you look scummy, but we all seem to disagree. You claim your plan is to call out others, but you never really do so.
And most damning? You wait 5 or 6 hours to post that defense. Moreover, you posted during that time, so it's not like you were entirely away from the thread. You came back to post those comments about Jailbreaker and Bio, to respond to my FoS of all things, but you didn't take a moment to write out your defense? Why not? Waiting to form a decent response in scum QT?
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FoS = Finger of suspicion. It's not a vote, but it's just a public "I'm watching you."
QT = quick topic? Whatever it is. It's a separate forum that the scum team has access to. They can post in there, plan their actions, discuss how to respond to town. If you check some old games, usually the host will post the scum QT and an observer QT so everyone can read over what scum was thinking during the game and what anyone observing was thinking.
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On May 12 2012 05:29 austinmcc wrote:
FoS = Finger of suspicion. It's not a vote, but it's just a public "I'm watching you."
QT = quick topic? Whatever it is. It's a separate forum that the scum team has access to. They can post in there, plan their actions, discuss how to respond to town. If you check some old games, usually the host will post the scum QT and an observer QT so everyone can read over what scum was thinking during the game and what anyone observing was thinking.
Thanks for the informative response!
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##unvote
##Vote BroodKingEXE
Might not be enough to swing it, but I feel more comfortable lynchying BKE than Anac at this point.
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On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote:
I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
As of 3 EST we had
Anacletus(8): Hyaach, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, Dahdum, Darkfirex5, Anacletus, BioSC, BroodkingEXE
BroodkingEXE(1): austinmcc
Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Crossfire99, Unforgiven_ve
Shiao unvoted. Crossfire voted Anac. Anac unvoted and voted BroodKing.
So as it stands
Anac(7) - Hyaach, FirmTofu, Dahdum, Darkfirex5, BioSC, BroodKingEXE, Crossfire
BroodKingEXE(2) - austinmcc, Anacletus
Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi
As I count it, but don't take it as gospel. If you are thinking of swapping, and Hyaach was suspicious this morning and waiting to see Brood's response, that could potentially take us to 5/4, with 4 undecideds. We NEED active town to do anything though, otherwise we're already locked in. Mafia's got 3 votes to throw around, we might have a no-vote or two, so we just need clear decisions and stances.
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EBWOP: You posted as I was counting.
Currently at 6 on Anac. 3 on BK. 4 not voting. Unless I've miscounted anyone.
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On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote:
I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned).
Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count?
Your tunnelling on me makes absolutely no sense. We've had pretty much the exact same reads on people, excepting of course that for whatever strange reason you believe I'm playing scummy. I've already asked you for reasons on why you think I'm scum, but frankly they are pretty tame and only serve to distract and cause more arguments.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 12:57 dahdum wrote:@biosc Sure, this is why I think you're scummy: Show nested quote +
Sounds like a solid strategy. Basic, but solid. Getting rid of lurkers/low content players seems like a win/win. If they are lurking scum players, town gets a nice snipe. Should they be town, they would be just as bad as scum in that they wouldn't help town anyways.
You're agreeing with me here, but then the "they would be as bad as scum" phrase really seems out of place. My first suspicion based on that. Show nested quote +
While I agree that the back half of his post is worthy of discussion, I would hope that simply saying that him hoping you aren't mafia is worthy of a lynch. Maybe it's just me, but that simply sounds as if he remembers you from a previous game, and perhaps you did well as mafia then. I feel like the mafia/town alignment of a previous game shouldn't be a factor in deciding whom to lynch in THIS game.
Show nested quote +Read what I posted again. I threw my suspicions towards him as well. Not sure what about my post was defending him.
By throwing your suspicions I assume you mean the phrase "back half of his post is worthy of discussion". Super passive and non-committal. Show nested quote +Not enough to drive my vote to you, but I'm sure to keep an eye on your posts. Sounds like something one scum says to another. I'd also like to hear more on who you think is suspicious beyond Analectus?
What is your goal here? You believe I'm scum, but have the same reads as a scum? I'm not even sure you follow your own logic. We are discussing the lynch of Anacletus or BroodKingExe, Why would you bring me into this discussion, if not to distract from what we are discussing. If you have a case against me, make it. So far your suspicions of me have been weak at best, so I hope that if you are making a case, it's better than "He said some cryptic things on day 1", and "He had a scum read on one of my reads, but said something I believe to be scumtalk" Honestly this whole half-assed commited case you have against me just strengthens my case for you being scum.
Back to the case at hand. I've stated multiple times that I believe Anacletus to be scum, however, with the recent case against BXE, I'm inclined to swap my vote to him. The biggest reason I am to swap my vote over, is this line in Austin's case.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote:
If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start.
Both players have had people call them out on being scummy. However, due to Anac losing all credit with the town, regardless of affiliation, it would be tough for him ,should he be mafia, to get any ball rolling on someone else in town. It's not a forgiveness for bad play, its a delay in action for a scum target appearing more scummy near the end of the day.
## Unvote
## Vote BroodKingEXE
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That brings the vote to
Anac(5) - Hyaach, FirmTofu, Darkfirex5, BroodKingEXE, Crossfire
BroodKingEXE(4) - austinmcc, Anacletus, dahdum, BioSC
Not Voting(4): Mufaa, Jailbreaker, Unforgiven_ve, ShiaoPi
Hyaach, Shiao, and Unforgiven have all come in and posted today, as has Cross. Cross came in and voted Anac, gave some reasoning as to why he still preferred that case. Hyaach I know you did the same, and were waiting on BK's answer. Any thoughts after seeing it?
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@Anac. The first one does make sense. I could be town and the Mafia could be letting you push me, because they know I am town. They don't even need to take ownership for their vote and could keep their vote on Analect. People who vote for me can be on either side. Bussing or wagoning are options for mafia. What about my response doesn't convince you?
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EBWOP: My bad posted this and didn't see his reponse to my response.
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On May 12 2012 05:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:07 BroodKingEXE wrote:
The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum. In the first bolded passage, you say it doesn't make you look scummy. Yet - I think it does
- ShiaoPi seems to think it does
- Hyaach seems to think it does
- Bio has his suspicions raised by it
- Crossfire will keep his eye on you
That's 5 people. Not quite half of the players in the game. Most of the players who have been active today. And your response to all those people questioning you is to say the case "doesn't make you look scummy"? Clearly there's something there. If you really think that the case doesn't make you look scummy, then why does everyone else seem to think otherwise? As to the second post, you're going to "call out others." Great. When are you going to do that? I see that you tried, you posted two weak reads in hopes of shifting the discussion. What was the response to those reads? + Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 04:42 ShiaoPi wrote:BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this: + Show Spoiler +Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy.
Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me.
BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. ) You throw out a few names. Write a sentence or two. Really calling them out there. It didn't convince ShiaoPi; it doesn't convince me. You claim my case doesn't make you look scummy, but we all seem to disagree. You claim your plan is to call out others, but you never really do so. And most damning? You wait 5 or 6 hours to post that defense. Moreover, you posted during that time, so it's not like you were entirely away from the thread. You came back to post those comments about Jailbreaker and Bio, to respond to my FoS of all things, but you didn't take a moment to write out your defense? Why not? Waiting to form a decent response in scum QT?
Am I not entitled to my own opinion? The things you have posted in your original case don't make me look that scummy. The thing that Tofu said and I said are different. He wants to lynch lurkers and I don't (at least not till a couple more days). I have called out others, do you see all those "useless one-liners"? They are calling out things I saw as potentially scummy. Do I have to wait and post a culmination of these posts all at once? For the most part you haven't actually looked at the majority of my posts for their content. Your final sentence doesn't make sense in terms of scum. Why would I not defend myself (as scum), when the town was obviously against me? Look at where waiting has got me, second-highest lynch canidate for day 1. It could just be I didn't see your post like I didn't see this response.
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I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Less than 2 Hours until lynch.
Seems like the majority of people caught up on the conversation while I was gone. Including BroodKingEXE, whose defense remains to be this post here:
+ Show Spoiler +The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum.
Our main questions and suspicions on you were not regarding your first vote on Tofu, which to me still seems like a reasonable way to gain some information on day 1, but we were much more concerned with the general picture that you seem to be calling out a few people, but not really making a case against them. Your response was that you have been "drawing information", which is a perfectly fine method to play. But now the spotlight is on you. When it was on Anacletus and he responded in a similar manner, you simply asked:
+ Show Spoiler +@Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information.
That is exactly what I am asking you now. What have you been doing all the time? You have obviously read the case against you, you had almost 48 hours to make up your mind on several suspects and things in a orderly manner. So what are your findings? What are the information you have gathered until now? If you cannot post something which convinces me of your opinion, you will have my vote.
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Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made.
Austin's point about how even if Ana is scum he's lost so much credibility he can't make a push on someone d2. If he doesn't improve his play we might have to take him out later, but right now if we lynch him we won't gain any real info. Everyone has been on to him at some point, so if he flips town we gain almost nothing from this since his posts lack any content. If he flips scum the scum would lose a player, but that honestly might help them if he really is scum and is playing like this.
If we lynch someone else and they flip town, we can see who has been focused on them, who stayed out of the discussion on that person and we at least have some good info to discuss over d2. The odds are just as good of anyone else flipping scum, so I would rather flip someone who would give us info instead of giving scum the option to hide behind the excuse that Ana was such a bad townie, how could everyone not vote for him.
I think BroodKingEXE needs to post some content instead of one liners and just agreeing with people as it comes off scummy, but he isn't my first choice at the moment.
Jailbreaker- Why haven't you posted in the last 3 and a half pages? You commented early on about how much aggression there was but you haven't made a single case, even hinted at having a read, or contributed to the town in any way. Why are you so content to just sit back and watch everyone else debate with the deadline so close?
##Vote Jailbreaker
This isn't a permanent vote. I think Jailbreaker is the best lynch so far. If no one else feels this way, I will swing my vote to BroodKingEXE to get some info from the lynch as I do think his actual content will give us something to compare to everyone else d2 once we see his flip.
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@Shiao Pi: Firm and your responses have convinced me you aren't scum. Did I single-handedly make you guys talk? No, but it has helped me figure out that you guys aren't scum in my mind. I realize I probaly should be looking around more and creating better cases, but as of now I don't see anything mind blowingly scummy (except Ana). Until I do, I won't be making the biggest cases and will keep looking for minor blips post by post.
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I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now.
##vote BroodKingEXE
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EPT
