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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On April 23 2012 07:45 Zephirdd wrote: Just for the record, im last minute voting VE in order to avoid a modkill; I dont recall any other candidate better than him either, although I kinda lost track since page 30 or so Yeah, your best read | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
- layabout BH is trying to get town cred from the lynch even though he ignored VE until it was too late for him to stop the lynch. We should lynch BlazingJitsu tomorrow. If St. Daniel is posting in another game but not this one even though this started first then there must be a reason for this. It seems likely that this reason is that he rolled scum and is frightened to post. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
One thing I do know is you were pushing the VE lynch and I don't think you're in the position to try and lynch someone who opposed it. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:35 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + Your lack of focus not only annoys me but is suspicious, you can't make up your mind or stick to anything. Lets go through this for you: -Lets Lynch Gonzaw (in this fashion FOR THE TOWN LYNCH GONZAW IM SURE HES SCUM) -Lets Lynch Bill Murray ( in the same fashion) Then this: On April 22 2012 13:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Do we lynch BM or Mattchew? This is the first time you've even mentioned Mattchew in your filter since your first joke vote. You give no reasoning behind the Mattchew suspicion at all. Then this: On April 22 2012 22:06 VisceraEyes wrote: The scum are Bill Murray, gonzaw, MidnightGladius, layabout as far as I can see. I want to kill BM first. Where'd Mattchew go? Now this: On April 22 2012 23:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not actually - I don't think I'm any better that anyone else - only slightly more experienced. I'm trying to use reason as a defense, but it's not really working. Anyway, I'd like to hear EVERYONE'S thoughts on the BH/Jitsu hydra please. As hyperactive as they were pre-game, they should have been in here freaking out by now. I actually feel like I want to lynch BH/Jitsu more than BM at this point. What do you guys think? Now you want to lynch BJ, even though they weren't on your scum team just a few posts earlier and you never even mentioned them other than, they should be all over my claim. They should be posting is your only reasoning against them. Not being in the thread at a particular time is not a case sorry to say. This is also very relevant to your scum meta in LI, odd claims, massive suspicion switches, can't keep your stories straight or keep your head on straight for that matter. You keep mentioning things such as after I flip you'll be sorry and such. As well as saying things like "THIS IS TOWNS BEST OPTION THEY WILL FLIP SCUM FOR SURE!" Your play is ridiculous to say the least. Your the most scummy in my mind right now. Unvote: marvellosity Vote: VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM. VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 08:11 Mementoss wrote: Why are we lynching a JK cause hes bad again? [image blocked] + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 08:20 Mementoss wrote: I would also vote BM. I am beginning to think Marv is town, and since I agree with the defensive stance on VE risen took, it kinda makes me think hes town. If he was scum, he woulda just let VE die, and vote VE like a sheep. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On April 23 2012 12:44 MidnightGladius wrote: I found VE's play to be ridiculously scummy, but I was hesitant to vote for a claiming jailkeeper. You clearly twisted my words and intentions here. Clearly twisted? Could you explain then how you switched from such a neutral stance on VE to finding him ridiculously scummy, even though discussion was not focused on VE between this post and the one you quoted? You say "the only problem is" but it is clear that you have quite the list of concerns. On April 23 2012 02:24 MidnightGladius wrote: VE's claim makes absolutely no sense at all to me, and I can't see how it, or his subsequent behavior, benefits the town at all. Other players have made their cases well enough, so I'm not going to rehash their points, but VE is one of the more scummy players here right now. The only problem is, unlike LI, this claim makes no sense, doesn't advance a scum agenda, and isn't being supported by other mafia members. No one is even trying to defend him, except johnnywup, and I didn't see a scum plan out of their previous interactions. Would scum bus VE this early? It just doesn't make nearly as much sense as his actions in LI. On April 23 2012 12:44 MidnightGladius wrote: You missed my point here. Why do you think it is good for everyone to see?I provided the list, because the mods in the voting thread hadn't posted a list of voters chronologically, and I thought it would for good for everyone to see. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
It was my best read at the time and, if I recall correctly, of other 7 players. Sorry, your case is weak. Too weak. And when a case is so weak, it is usually wrong. Food for thought. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 24 2012 07:41 johnnywup wrote: Reffering to St.Daniel: Maybe he rolled VT and got bored this game. Who knows. (PS I do think he's scum but him posting more in another game isn't necessarily a tell) One thing I do know is you were pushing the VE lynch and I don't think you're in the position to try and lynch someone who opposed it. Hmmm? Since when did being on a mislynch make a players opinion less valuable? There 4 scum players in this game and there were 7 players that voted for VE with unknown alignments. There are 12 other living players. Of that 12, 5 voted for BM which was the other lynch target, the other 7 votes were throwaway votes. The players that didn't vote for VE either wasted their vote (and effectively chose not to use their vote) or voted for BM a player with no posts to analyse (an easy and safe vote to make without having to give any reasons). How exactly are the players that didn't vote for VE so much better than the ones that did that they are in your eyes "above scrutiny". If you want to think less of my opinions then you better think that i am scum or that i am wrong. Do not ignore what i am saying because i was wrong about VE's. Do not trust somebody because they didn't vote for him. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
The deadline is 00:00 GMT (+00:00) | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 24 2012 07:48 layabout wrote: Mementoss why did you completely turn around your reads on VE, Risen and Marv? + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 23:35 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + Your lack of focus not only annoys me but is suspicious, you can't make up your mind or stick to anything. Lets go through this for you: -Lets Lynch Gonzaw (in this fashion FOR THE TOWN LYNCH GONZAW IM SURE HES SCUM) -Lets Lynch Bill Murray ( in the same fashion) Then this: On April 22 2012 13:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Do we lynch BM or Mattchew? This is the first time you've even mentioned Mattchew in your filter since your first joke vote. You give no reasoning behind the Mattchew suspicion at all. Then this: On April 22 2012 22:06 VisceraEyes wrote: The scum are Bill Murray, gonzaw, MidnightGladius, layabout as far as I can see. I want to kill BM first. Where'd Mattchew go? Now this: On April 22 2012 23:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not actually - I don't think I'm any better that anyone else - only slightly more experienced. I'm trying to use reason as a defense, but it's not really working. Anyway, I'd like to hear EVERYONE'S thoughts on the BH/Jitsu hydra please. As hyperactive as they were pre-game, they should have been in here freaking out by now. I actually feel like I want to lynch BH/Jitsu more than BM at this point. What do you guys think? Now you want to lynch BJ, even though they weren't on your scum team just a few posts earlier and you never even mentioned them other than, they should be all over my claim. They should be posting is your only reasoning against them. Not being in the thread at a particular time is not a case sorry to say. This is also very relevant to your scum meta in LI, odd claims, massive suspicion switches, can't keep your stories straight or keep your head on straight for that matter. You keep mentioning things such as after I flip you'll be sorry and such. As well as saying things like "THIS IS TOWNS BEST OPTION THEY WILL FLIP SCUM FOR SURE!" Your play is ridiculous to say the least. Your the most scummy in my mind right now. Unvote: marvellosity Vote: VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + The more I think of it, the more I agree and like Gonzaws points on why lynching Risen is better than VE or BM. VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 08:11 Mementoss wrote: Why are we lynching a JK cause hes bad again? [image blocked] + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 08:20 Mementoss wrote: I would also vote BM. I am beginning to think Marv is town, and since I agree with the defensive stance on VE risen took, it kinda makes me think hes town. If he was scum, he woulda just let VE die, and vote VE like a sheep. At the time Marv was the best case out there, and I wanted more pressure on him to keep posting more to see if we could get scumminess out of him. At first glance, I immediately thought of VE in LI, and though hes doing this again and voted him based on not only this, but his inconsistent views. I re-read the context of VE's case, and asked myself the same questions I kept asking everyone else, why would he do this as scum? I couldn't figure it out. Then I asked myself is this bad town play or scum? The answer should have been pretty obvious to most looking at the context of the claim as well as how it was done, along with the awkward rage-quit. As well as the super fast bandwagon/sheeping of 9 people, in which almost everyone just said omg bad claim and voted him. Easy way out. Additionally, why take the risk of lynching claimed JK with no pressure day 1? There were ways he coulda confirmed his role, if he wasn't dead from scum after 2 nights it woulda been ultra suspicious. Gonzaw posted what appeared to be a good case on Risen. Risen hadn't posted much as of late and Marv was posting somewhat better. So I voted Risen, being my best scum read atm, also knowing that I didn't want VE to die AT ALL. Once I realized there was 0 chance of Marv or Risen dieing, I voted BM. The second most votes. Was I sure he was scum? Nope. Would I rather mislynch a vanilla than a JK. Your damn right. And a lurking one at that. Onto that, the way Risen was pushing people to get off VE and mentioning some similar things to what I was thinking/saying earlier I thought he was town for this action. Marv I initially thought this was the case too, but I realized he just took his vote off to make himself look concerned. And ultimately, he put that vote back there with tonnes of showing of why it was a bad idea at the end of the thread, by me Risen and Mattchew. Still looking weird in my eyes. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 24 2012 08:07 johnnywup wrote: not above scrutiny but I think unless you have an actual case against blazing you're more suspicious than him because you were on the VE lynch. obviously there were townies on the VE lynch but there were almost definitely scum on that lynch. Which makes you more likely to be scum than him. You didn't give an argument, you gave an opinion, and opinions of people on the VE lynch are worth less than others right now. So unless you come up with a good ARGUMENT against him, you're more likely to be under scrutiny than him. What do you think of what i said a few posts ago? You know, the argument i repeated about how him waiting until it was too late to stop the lynch before offering his opinion is suspicious. Even if you think there are scum on the the votelist, you cannot treat everyone on it like scum. You scruntinise them, make some sort of judgement then respond accordingly. You should not be trying to discredit everyone on that list for being wrong if you are town. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On April 24 2012 08:02 Zephirdd wrote: It was my best read at the time and, if I recall correctly, of other 7 players. Sorry, your case is weak. Too weak. And when a case is so weak, it is usually wrong. Food for thought. you voted him so you wouldn't get modkilled, right before (what you thought was) the deadline. That's not your "best read". That's not "A read" at all. That's you trying to ninjavote and get a lynch on a jailkeeper. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
About Risen: First of all, I'll deal with your "rebuttal" (if you can call it that) of my case here: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 06:45 Risen wrote: What kind of stupid shit is this? By request of jubjub Pac I'll respond. Wishy washy? What the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game? How the hell could ANYONE have true feelings of someone being scum that early on. You can have policies that guide you, such as kill every idiot you see, like anyone on VE or lynch lurkers like BM, but you can't possibly have feelings of people being scummy that early on. Only people who are atrocious at this game would take that point seriously. Oh look, we have pac taking it seriously. I'm so shocked. You say this posting looks like Toad from LI? Awesome. I'm not Toad. Also, where do you get me being SUBMISSIVE to layabout. The guy was playing like an idiot and I called him out on it. If you count me apologizing for cursing as being "submissive" then you need to get your head checked. How can you go from me voting layabout to trying to get approval from him. Stupidity at it's finest. BUT Pac wants me to address this piece of shit case so lets keep going. Wtf? Risen, as soon as LI started you pressured people (ET, johnny, others), you FoSed them and started discussion. And it was like 2 hours into D1 You can't possibly use the "what the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game?" excuse at all when you don't don't do that when you are town. Yes, you were being submissive, before you called laya out, not after (geez read my fucking post I specifically quote the post I'm talking about) On to your little bullets. 1) I've been busy as all hell, but I've been trying to come in and read and post instead of lurk. Screw it, I should have just lurked. You're right, posting in the thread is anti-town. My bad, I was wrong. I'll stop posting. Thanks for the sarcasm that doesn't accomplish anything. Okay, so you pull off the "busy" excuse...does that justify your lack of activity until then? If you are busy/go away/etc you should tell us so we know about it before we even have to point that out to you. 2) Not taking a solid stance? I SAID DONT DIRECT BLUES. IT IS BAD. How much more solid does it get? What do I have to do to make it more solid? It seemed to me you were just talking just to talk there. You said things like "Well, but I don't see how pointing that out is scummy, but well..", spent talking quite a lot about Mementoss' plan, and all that just to say "don't direct blues". Don't worry though, this is not that important 3) A flimsy vote on layabout? You right... because votes before a day has passed in the game are going to be super solid. Oh wait. They're not. Only an idiot or scum would try and say something like this. I'm leaning idiot because at least your vote isn't with the derps on VE. Yes it's a flimsy vote, and don't use that excuse again, you know it doesn't work like that and it doesn't justify your vote AT ALL. For instance, there were PLENTY of JUSTIFIED votes from other players before you voted layabout, so your point is rendered moot and only serves to make it seem you are avoiding justifying your vote at all and misdirecting it. 4) I like how you call me passive and then point number 4 is saying I'm being too aggressive. This case is air tight guys, let's all get on the Risen choo choo. Right Janaan? Read my case. You were extremely passive until layabout called you out. Then you became extremely aggressive ALMOST INSTANTLY 5) People don't have lives my b I always forget about that. I wasn't supposed to head back to Vegas until next weekend and when I signed up for this game it didn't matter anyways. It took two years to start, though, and I've only been able to read the thread from my phone. Now I'm able to type on a keyboard and tear this horrid case to shreds. Excuses, excuses, excuses. You can't possibly tell me that you think people calling you out because you are not posting means we are idiots because we didn't know that you "weren't supposed to head back to Vegas" or you were "busy" right? Yes, it's possible you were busy, it's possible that Vegas thing happened and you were away or something. However, it's very possible that you had tiny bits of free time between those times to post too. It's entirely possible that you are scum, you were "busy", but when you had free time you just said "Oh fuck it, supposedly I'm still "busy" so I'll just not post for a while". I did it in Newbie IV for instance, where I just said things like "I'm going to uni and I'll be busy this week so I won't be able to post too much". I was busy and going to uni, but when I came back home I just read the thread, read the scum QT and talked to some people there and then did nothing at all and keep lurking. Then every other time I posted I'd say "Oh I'm back from uni/I'm not that busy anymore/blablabla". I wasn't lying, but I was exaggerating it so I was justified in not posting. So you making these kind of excuses doesn't let you off the hook at all. And like I said, if you are going to be legitimately busy, or going away to Vegas (or coming back to Vegas, I didn't really understand that part), then if you don't want misunderstandings you point it out to us. It's not required if you are able to establish your innocence before it, but since you completely failed at that in your case, yes you should have. Also, here's his filter from LI (was town): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046&user=62525 The fact that I could almost instantly peg him as town in that game, while I'm having lots of doubts about his alignment this game should indicate something, at least regarding Risen's earlier behaviour (before he went through that AFK period) I'm kind of torn about this now. Before he started being "active" again, he was scummy as fuck. However, he started using his usual "townie" aggressive act after being called out. He started being assholes to everybody, posting actively, and FoSing everybody without any reasoning at all and just being a dick. There are 2 interesting aspects I found:
Now, this may seem like a conspiracy theory, but even though Risen's past actions would "exonerate" him in many people's eyes (because he's playing to his meta, posting actively, going against the VE lynch and trying to lynch BM, etc), the way he performed said actions, and the way he's been acting regarding those other players make me very uneasy. I find it possible Risen is scum, decided to go all "Fuck this shit I'll FoS everybody, play to my town meta and oppose the VE lynch to gain cred", which is why I'm pointing this out. Holy shit this post is gigantic, I'll post my thoughts on other players in a minute | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On April 24 2012 08:17 johnnywup wrote: you voted him so you wouldn't get modkilled, right before (what you thought was) the deadline. That's not your "best read". That's not "A read" at all. That's you trying to ninjavote and get a lynch on a jailkeeper. OH yeah it's much better to get modkilled AMIRITE? No. Also, I stated earlier and I guess I'll have to actually quote myself. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=29#561 On April 23 2012 00:17 Zephirdd wrote: God damnit layabout. I was about to post how VE's claim made sense and how he was town, but then you convince me the opposite. Geez. And this martyring post from VE only makes sense from two PoVs: - He really is a JK and he will let town use his flip information to deal with what happened during the day - He is scum trying to sound like that. Also, right now, I see no reason to lynch Bill Murray - he should be vigged, not lynched if he doesn't contribute soon. VE, what is your stance on gonzaw, especially after his series of (Seemingly) drunk posts? Also, please make the case against the certain scum you are talking about. Should you flip JK, we got something solid to work from. In fact, I'll take you are claiming scum if you don't do that. He didn't do that, I took it as if he was claiming scum. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
and: how can one post make you flip 180 and think ve is scum from thinking he is town. what solid information do we have to work from from him flipping jk how can you take him NOT posting as him claiming scum. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
"I pledge to stop swearing for the rest of the game in the hope that we will all be nicer to each other" You don't need to post it but please try to stick to it. If we continue being at each others throats we will ruin Igrok's game. Let's try to be civil and stick to what will probably be terrible analysis that will cause other players and observers alike to recoil in horror. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
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