It'd take almost 1/3rd of our PoPs to move Palmar in and out. It's too big a cost for too uncertain a result, and discussing it much more would just be a distraction from scum hunting. Wait for a situation where we have confirmed town in a good position and/or have a particular need for some of the item types.

Snarfs

Canada1006 Posts

April 01 2012 05:57 GMT

#124

On April 01 2012 14:24 Tobon wrote:
It'd take almost 1/3rd of our PoPs to move Palmar in and out. It's too big a cost for too uncertain a result, and discussing it much more would just be a distraction from scum hunting. Wait for a situation where we have confirmed town in a good position and/or have a particular need for some of the item types.

What do you mean by uncertain result? Are you referring to the items, or the possibility of it falling into scum hands? And since we're not talking about anything else, we might as well talk about this.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

April 01 2012 06:04 GMT

#125

if Palmar is town he'd be dead with one push over the line

If he's scum he'd live and get the item.

The only reason anyone should be pushed is because we think they are scum. Treat the pushes like votes. Treat the pulls like anti-votes.

Therefore, only pull someone in a last-resort situation (i.e. as if you're trying toforce a no-lynch in a regular game) and push them only when you believe they are scum.

If we simply push and pull for arbitrary reasons then we take the responsibility out of the action and scum can get away without doing any real work.

Snarfs

Canada1006 Posts

April 01 2012 06:16 GMT

#126

On April 01 2012 15:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
if Palmar is town he'd be dead with one push over the line

If he's scum he'd live and get the item.

Agreed. Caller outed himself in LII to kill Palmar. No reason to think scum wouldn't do it again.

The only reason anyone should be pushed is because we think they are scum. Treat the pushes like votes. Treat the pulls like anti-votes.

Therefore, only pull someone in a last-resort situation (i.e. as if you're trying toforce a no-lynch in a regular game) and push them only when you believe they are scum.

If we simply push and pull for arbitrary reasons then we take the responsibility out of the action and scum can get away without doing any real work.

This is what I meant earlier (I didn't meant to imply arbitrary reasoning, just that people should not be forced into voting for the same person so as not to "waste" PoPs).

Bluelightz

Indonesia2463 Posts

April 01 2012 06:18 GMT

#127

I haven't helped discussion and didn't explain my reads. I think the people I mentioned are town because they didn't seem to act like they are discussing stuff in a qt blah blah.I agree that we should coordinate our PoPs.

Snarfs

Canada1006 Posts

April 01 2012 06:21 GMT

#128

On April 01 2012 15:18 Bluelightz wrote:
I haven't helped discussion and didn't explain my reads. I think the people I mentioned are town because they didn't seem to act like they are discussing stuff in a qt blah blah.I agree that we should coordinate our PoPs.

FYI: This post makes it sound like someone just told you that your first post didn't help discussion and that you didn't explain your reads.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

April 01 2012 06:22 GMT

#129

On April 01 2012 15:21 Snarfs wrote:

Show nested quote +

FYI: This post makes it sound like someone just told you that your first post didn't help discussion and that you didn't explain your reads.

aka he's scum.

gg bluelightz. Please die now. Say sorry to your team.

Bluelightz

Indonesia2463 Posts

April 01 2012 06:25 GMT

#130

Did I explain my reads in the post where I shared them? No. That's why I explained it and that I was answering wbgs question.

Bluelightz

Indonesia2463 Posts

April 01 2012 06:31 GMT

#131

I'm town, I know that but u don't bro.

Acrofales

Spain18288 Posts

April 01 2012 06:34 GMT

#132

Wow, and I thought my previous mafia game derailed into madness fast. I have read through the last game and the voting didn't seem to work at all, so I don't know why anybody wants to try it. Tobon, are you scum?

I also have a policy for day 1: we have the opportunity of getting rid of all the lurkers in one fell swoop. The queue allows for 8 people to be lynched. I hope we don't need that many lynches, but being able to kill all our lurkers in d1 is pretty cool.

Tobon

United States372 Posts

April 01 2012 06:42 GMT

#133

[QUOTE]On April 01 2012 15:34 Acrofales wrote:
Wow, and I thought my previous mafia game derailed into madness fast. I have read through the last game and the voting didn't seem to work at all, so I don't know why anybody wants to try it. Tobon, are you scum?/QUOTE]

Nope. And as you'll notice if you reread, I mentioned that the voting went nowhere. I wasn't suggesting it as a solution, but as a failed previous experience to start off discussion. Many of us are agreed that PoPs should be coordinated and not wasted. That's obvious and also quite vague. So how do you think we ought to go about concretely accomplishing it?

Tobon

United States372 Posts

April 01 2012 06:42 GMT

#134

EBWOP: Fail quote, sorry! Should be obvious what was intended.

Acrofales

Spain18288 Posts

April 01 2012 06:57 GMT

#135

[QUOTE]On April 01 2012 15:42 Tobon wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 01 2012 15:34 Acrofales wrote:
Wow, and I thought my previous mafia game derailed into madness fast. I have read through the last game and the voting didn't seem to work at all, so I don't know why anybody wants to try it. Tobon, are you scum?/QUOTE]

Nope. And as you'll notice if you reread, I mentioned that the voting went nowhere. I wasn't suggesting it as a solution, but as a failed previous experience to start off discussion. Many of us are agreed that PoPs should be coordinated and not wasted. That's obvious and also quite vague. So how do you think we ought to go about concretely accomplishing it?[/QUOTE]

I have no clue how to do that. The system seems designed to resist order and prior coordination. I think we should discuss who we want to kill in text and then work towards it. Same as with votes. Only difference is that you don't have a vote to make your case more forceful. If everybody is active and posting, however, that shouldn't be a problem. Don't need a vote trail, just vocal people.

Hence, once again, my suggestion to lynch all lurkers off the bat.

I have to go out today, but will be back this evening with more. Also, to grab items and prevent people from wasting pops, we should announce all pop actions 30 seconds before we use them. That's all the coordination I can see working.

Acrofales

Spain18288 Posts

April 01 2012 06:58 GMT

#136

Oh god... your failed quote made my quote fail! Lol

Nemesis

Canada2568 Posts

April 01 2012 07:03 GMT

#137

I think we should just use the push and pull mechanic like normal votes. The only main difference is just that we can't take back our vote once we give it in.

Also, should we try and get the item?

Nemesis

Canada2568 Posts

April 01 2012 07:23 GMT

#138

On April 01 2012 13:42 Tobon wrote:
Hiya, I too, am a good toy.

How do we want to do this? There was an attempt at using a voting system in Death Factory 1 in order to help coordinate the pushes/pulls, but it fell by the wayside pretty quickly as toys started exploring using their powers. Can we start with a couple easy ground rules, like PoPing someone off the ends of the queue or into the fire zone is extremely anti-town without a majority in favor?

I don't think some kind of voting system will really work in this format. If we try and create a voting system like they did in Death Factory Mafia I where they "burn the one with the majority vote", it doesn't make people accountable for their use of PoP as they are doing what the majority of town told them to do. Also, it is rather hard to organize as people are all in different timezones, and some people use their PoP before their is a majority vote.

I think that we should only really "lynch" 1 or 2 people per day so that we don't end up like how it went with the first game where town died within 2 days. Also, it allows us to confirm the alignment of the person before we "lynch" the next person.

@Acrofales: While I do think that it is indeed a good idea to pressure the lurkers. I don't think it's a good idea to just policy lynch all of them unless they are really lurking hardcore like posting only what is necessary to not get modkilled.

Anyways, I'm off for now.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

April 01 2012 07:27 GMT

#139

Day 1

20 Toys alive, 5 gone bad. How will this end?

Current positions - Day 1
+ Show Spoiler +

24.[Item] [___________]
23.[___________] [___________]
22.[___________] [___________]
21.[___________] [___________]
20.[___________] [___________]
19.[___________] [___________]
18.[Palmar] [___________]
17.[Mr.Wiggles] [___________]
16.[cascades] [Nemesis]
15. [Dirkzor] [Mr.Zentor]
14.[VisceraEyes] [Bill Murray]
13.[Snarfs][___________]
12.[wherebugsgo][prplhz]
11. [Acrofales][___________]
10.[Mattchew] [Tobon]
9. [layabout] [___________]
8. [Bluelightz][Sbrubbles]
7. [risk.nuke][syllogism]
6. [Cephiro][___________]
5. [___________][___________]
4. [___________][___________]
3. [___________] [___________]
2. [___________] [___________]
1. [___________] [___________]

PoPs - Day 1
+ Show Spoiler +

Mr.Wiggles
Bluelightz
VisceraEyes
risk.nuke
Sbrubbles
Dirkzor
Mattchew
Snarfs
Cephiro
Tobon
wherebugsgo
layabout
syllogism
Mr.Zentor
prplhz
Acrofales
Bill Murray
cascades
Palmar
Nemesis

Day 1 ends Tuesday April 3rd at 04:00 GMT (+00:00) (12:00 AM ET)!