EPTStorm Mafia - Page 53
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On February 24 2012 23:30 syllogism wrote: The lynch was between a person who was almost certainly town and thus blue (redff) and a person who at least had a chance of flipping scum. Pretty disappointed by your play since student mafia if you are town in this game too Almost certainly town? Sounds like something that you should have explained if you believed it. this On February 22 2012 16:45 syllogism wrote: No, I'm saying that I believe redff is a tracker. I also believe that if there is a scum tracker, there is also a town tracker. Thus, if redff is scum, there is a town tracker out there who can counterclaim. If there is no counter claim, I believe redff is town purely based on that fact. It's not rock solid, but it is reasonable. Aside that, I personally think redff is town based on other evidence, but in case I'm wrong my suggestion helps. Further, if there is no counter claim and others find my logic reasonable, this would prevent us from lynching our tracker. Seem to rely on several assumptions that i would not be so quick to make. It also appear that you yourself were not almost certain that redFF was town, and so i must ask: why the increased certainty? Additionally if that was the case then any other player would have been a better candidate than redFF, and pushing BC would still have been bad, since you were voicing suspicions was based upon posts in the first few hours of the day that were not all that alignment indicative. As to your point about my performance, i feel that student was an easier and more enjoyable game to play in because players were actually putting in effort an making reasonable decisions. Since then every game i have played has featured vast amounts of anti-town play and baffling decisions by scum and town alike. There has been large proportions of disinterested and neutral posters. I am having difficulty accounting for play that makes very little to no sense to me and i have gotten frustrated because of this. I really don't see how i am supposed to play aswell in an environment in which logical play is regarded as a backup option, as i did when everybody had access to reasonable advice, where everybody put effort in, and there were very few lurkers. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On February 24 2012 19:10 risk.nuke wrote: ![[image loading]](http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/funny-gifs-haha-good-one.gif) You're all still dumb for killing redFF, you don't kill a person who claims tracker. If he were town scum would either have to kill him and we wouldn't need to waste a lynch or let him live in the hopes that we will kill him out of suspicion but also leaves the risk of him finding scum. If he were scum we would had lynched him soon out of suspicion anyway. This is incredibly terrible. In a setup like this, lets say for arguments sake you are correct and redff was a tracker. If he checked someone who did not leave there home he would not know. If he was roleblocked he would not know. You say not killing him was dumb, yet leaving someone around who's role is now jeopardized and essentially useless only to say kill them later. Based on outing his own role / his play if there is some form of role disabler then town instead of "wasting" a lynch early would instead have to put up with continued scumlike play and leave someone alive purely on a claim. A claim does not mean someone is town, their actions due. Do you think aside from his tracker claim that redff was being pro town? This same person who claimed also rage quit the thread and spent an entire game day posting horrible content. As this has been your only post since the beginning of the day, you are now even further on my radar as scum. There is no logically sound reason I can see to your point of view. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
You're analysis of risk nuke comes off very much like something I already posted. It is odd you would move your vote to someone I brought up as a scum option given that until I posted I was your top scum read. Very interesting. You also base your entire case on him due to his sheep vote with a shite reason. Yet all you did day 1 was rehash other peoples arguments, then flip flop a ton near end of day on who to actually lynch. Ultimately you stayed on me but you swapped at least 2 if not 3 times in the last hour. Each one of your "cases" has been a rehash of someone else's that you carry like its your own case yet you back down or dodge most confrontations and avoid trying to take the seat of responsibility. If you want to push someones lynch for being scum then choose someone you firmly believe is scum and push, you don't flail around and let others do the work for you only to sheep after. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:04 syllogism wrote: Thanks for that explanation actually and I shouldn't just expect you to agree with me on everything, but I know redff and the hosts (and thus can deduce what kind of role setups are unlikely) better than you, so I just hoped you would pay at least some attention to what I'm saying, especially in the light of our previous discussions. The case against redff was basically that he voted and unvoted. I am paying attention to what you are saying. In fact i have constructed numerous posts that i did not feel were relevant enough that i have subsequently no posted to respond to you. Last time i followed you was purgatory, (lay scum syllo town) and it lead to me posting a huge case on risk nuke(partially based on meta), me following you onto Erandorr (totally based on meta) in a last minute switch to kill town. Then the next day going back to risk who flipped town. Whilst i was trying to play like town, following your lead and killing Erandorr was very costly for town as day2 was a early mislynch and an extended night devoid of discussion. In that case i felt there were more compelling reasons to follow your reads, and it did not turn out well. If i wish to improve then whilst i will definitely consider what more experienced or more skilled players say the only town i know will be me*, and i will have to make my own decisions, In this case it was to lynch redFF. The case on redFF was stronger than you are presenting it but it would be best not to dwell on that, unless you suddenly become certain of his alignment and we can better analyse the votes. *with obvious role-based exceptions | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Lynching Rol seems fine to me. lynching risk would be nice as well. And BH is still a huge isue for me. He's so scummy I can't believe it. He hasn't claimed mafia in the thread like wbg was saying but it's really strange. In fact I don't think a player that gets coaching from scumbuddies would play like that unless told to do that on purpose because it's freaking with people's radar. So imo it's either a mafia who is told to post shit because he's already dead in their opinion which is HIGHLY unlikely or it's a townie that is confused a lot. Or the explanation I like the most: Palmar is a huge dick and seriously added a VI to this game. I don't know enough about Palmars dickerieness so I'd stick with the confused townie for now. It's frankly the same feeling I had in L about palmar. It was just so over the top weird / scummy that I thought there's no way he's that bad. In L I had a nice explanation for that behavior because I thought Palmar is stubborn after his last game, however I don't have one here which is the reason I'm using "confused" for whatever is going on in his head. Still reading the last 5 or so pages. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:30 layabout wrote: I am paying attention to what you are saying. In fact i have constructed numerous posts that i did not feel were relevant enough that i have subsequently no posted to respond to you. Last time i followed you was purgatory, (lay scum syllo town) and it lead to me posting a huge case on risk nuke(partially based on meta), me following you onto Erandorr (totally based on meta) in a last minute switch to kill town. Then the next day going back to risk who flipped town. Whilst i was trying to play like town, following your lead and killing Erandorr was very costly for town as day2 was a early mislynch and an extended night devoid of discussion. In that case i felt there were more compelling reasons to follow your reads, and it did not turn out well. If i wish to improve then whilst i will definitely consider what more experienced or more skilled players say the only town i know will be me*, and i will have to make my own decisions, In this case it was to lynch redFF. The case on redFF was stronger than you are presenting it but it would be best not to dwell on that, unless you suddenly become certain of his alignment and we can better analyse the votes. *with obvious role-based exceptions I'm obviously wrong all the time and in this game have already likely been wrong and reassessed. Even now it's still possible that I'm wrong about redff, but I'm not adding caveats when the probability is very low, especially with the data we have since the lynch. Look at the final lynch vote spread and the lack of people attempting to move votes one way or another. Does it still look likely that scum was lynched day 1? Redff didn't even vote to save himself and he was not replaced after his "ragequit" (if that's the case and he wasn't just busy). It is very likely that his team would have known that he won't be posting anymore and requested to get him replaced before the deadline. Anyway, my town reads are much more reliable than my scum reads, so when I argue against a lynch it's probably worth paying more attention. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 24 2012 14:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: [...] The fact that you're being so dramatic in this game leads me to believe you're putting on an act. All the UGH's and NOOO's and emoticons and all this shit, I might take another look through your responsibility filter but it seems you were pretty on point by then. It seems like you're trying to please everybody and lay suspicion at the same time, I guess. That's the best way I can put it. That's btw the exact same thing I see in VE this game and I already said it somewhere earlier I think. He's not the way we see him this time when he rolled town. Town VE nowadies tries really hard to controle his emotions. Most of the time that will make a VE that is calm the first 1 or 2 days, tries to help and snap the 3rd day because of someone like wbg, or redFF or simply because something else. Mafia-VE is very well aware of his meta. He does that on purpose. He trolls on purpose and he writes bullshit on purpose because he knows that people think bad of him and therefore will take bullshit as a towntreat. Also being so emotional is a bad treat for townies because they're not judging objectivly but instead desperatly try to find something scummy within a filter of someone they think to be mafia. He knows that as well and snaps on purpose as Mafia as far as I know. I'd say he's putting a show on for us, trying to get his old, bad Meta, which makes people think he's a townie. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:45 syllogism wrote: I'm obviously wrong all the time and in this game have already likely been wrong and reassessed. Even now it's still possible that I'm wrong about redff, but I'm not adding caveats when the probability is very low, especially with the data we have since the lynch. Look at the final lynch vote spread and the lack of people attempting to move votes one way or another. Does it still look likely that scum was lynched day 1? Redff didn't even vote to save himself and he was not replaced after his "ragequit" (if that's the case and he wasn't just busy). It is very likely that his team would have known that he won't be posting anymore and requested to get him replaced before the deadline. Anyway, my town reads are much more reliable than my scum reads, so when I argue against a lynch it's probably worth paying more attention. I am certain that you know Palmar better than i do. But. It is very likely that his team would have known that he won't be posting anymore and requested to get him replaced before the deadline. Replacements This game does not use replacements. Please sign up only if you intend to actually play the game through. In extraordinary situations (things can always come up). PM me as soon as you know you have to bail, and I will see if I can make an exception He would not have gotten a replacement. +syllogism VE Dirkzor BH Toad all tried to push a switch. Which is hardly a lack of resistance, no? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 24 2012 09:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: RoL's biggest tell in near all games as red that I can recall is his activity level. He lurks and will bust out excuses as to why he was inactive but always appears when he has to (called out or to avoid being heavily suspected, etc..) whereas town he even when busy with life shite always has quality posts if inactive. As for how much it will take for wbg is similar to what I would expect what it will take for myself or RoL. IE contribute. I am overall fine with aggressive posting but aside from a few of his posts he has come off as someone attempting to avoid leaving a huge mark on the thread in solid opinions. He obviously has had some solid posts, but he has a ton of fluff ones as well. LOL holy shit. Scum much? You have played enough with me to know my play is erratic and that I have played plenty of games active as scum. Just because I was busy for 16 hours (get over it guys) doesn't mean you are going to get away with this shit when I am actually reading the thread. Helvetica you are scum, will get to that in a minute though. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: LOL holy shit. Scum much? You have played enough with me to know my play is erratic and that I have played plenty of games active as scum. Just because I was busy for 16 hours (get over it guys) doesn't mean you are going to get away with this shit when I am actually reading the thread. Helvetica you are scum, will get to that in a minute though. Your play is erratic only in terms of quality of your posts. Now and then you have things like work keeping you distracted or the like, but the level of posts you make are normally decent as town and lazyish as scum. If your telling me I am wrong on this, prove it to me. Til then your on my radar. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 24 2012 16:34 syllogism wrote: WBG seems fine to me so far. RoL on the other hand has done no scum hunting at all and basically voted for redff because he claimed tracker. Dr.H's case here makes a lot of sense. He also seemed fine with BC lynch which is ok, but he didn't add any reasons of his own other than just stating "I'd rather get him out of my head". What? I'm also not letting him get away with inactivity day after day as happened in Purgatory. That case better be amazing RoL and I don't want opinions just on one player ##vote Rebirthoflegend risk.nuke any thoughts on anyone at all? You still aren't playing the game despite getting called out. The few posts you have have basically no content. I've only very vague and weak reasons for believing that you might be town, but if you don't start posting content soon, that will change. You do remember you called me scum the entire game for being inactive day 1, even though I was active rest of the game? Then now you are mad because I was active day 1, but was busy part of day two? This wreaks of inconsistency, just saying dude. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Your play is erratic only in terms of quality of your posts. Now and then you have things like work keeping you distracted or the like, but the level of posts you make are normally decent as town and lazyish as scum. If your telling me I am wrong on this, prove it to me. Til then your on my radar. Merc Mini Mafia, Insane Mafia, Insane Mafia II come to mind. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
risk, after this post where you provide an extremely weak reason for your lynch target after providing no substance the entire first day, On February 23 2012 06:46 risk.nuke wrote: Yeah I don't want to lynch redFF, just got home. So I threw my vote on BC because I like syllo. You proceed to not post the entire night. Now that the day is almost half way over, the only thing you're going to give us is a jpeg and a complaint about a lynch that you were completely absent for? No thoughts on today's lynch? Not looking good. On February 24 2012 19:52 Dirkzor wrote: Why are you downplayer your abilities prplhz? Seems scummy to me. Combined with "I was hoping I'd get ignored (yea, you're probably going to jump on that word) until I had some more confidence in my reads" (yes i'm jumping it) it sound like you just want to lurk and it was a pain for you to get called out on it. I picked up on the same thing. Class time, be back in a couple hours. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Helvetica is scum, not really going to preface this but I will show the posts specifically and demonstrate my points. On February 23 2012 02:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It is WIFOM. I agree scum would probably not shoot redFF if he is town AND survives Day 1 considering he's distracting and an easy lynch target, but I don't agree that it's alright to lynch town. redFF's claim is stupid and I'm not sold on it considering he didn't even say a name with it and just dipped out immediately. They should roleblock him but I just don't like making arguments or lynches based on predicting what the mafia will do. I can think of countless times I've been scum and we've concocted to do the opposite of what town would expect, even make bad shots just to confuse people. Mafia is not a game played by machines that make the most efficient decisions and even if what he said is likely correct, it is not helpful. This post is scummy. Seriously, I can't stress this enough. The logic isn't congruent. Predicting scum behavior can be hard sometimes, but this is honestly one of the most straightforward uses of it. We know scum most likely has a RBer, or at the very least we are assuming that. When someone claims Day 1 so they don't die they intend to use their power to prove their claim, or that's the idea. As scum, you can claim must of been roleblock, but even if he's town then scum most definitely will roleblock him because we are forced to deal with RedFF giving no evidence to his innocence through role usage and holding off a claim that never actualizes. What? The mafia is going to mind fuck us by confirming a tracker....? I can't imagine any circumstance where they would let that happen. It's bullshit. On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched. I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him. Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for. I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself. This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. This is the second thing that really stood out to me. He's soft defending RedFF by trying to switch over to BC last minute while still saying he thinks RedFF is still possibly scum. If you think he's scum then why switch to BC? It doesn't make sense, then when the town decides on RedFF he marches right back over flip flopping. The first post I used and his behavior around the end of day 1 were both suspicious with the blatantly poor logic to defend redff, and the flipflopping BC/RedFF towards the end of Day 1. Day 1 DrH also barely did anything and posts a whole bunch of filler, but that can be said of most people. Its what his real activities goals were namely, soft defending RedFF without trying to make it obvious when there is one reason to try to mask who you are defending. Anyway, I had these reads since day 1. I skimmed the thread from day 2, but I will try to post more when I get back later. This two were some of the biggest scum reads I had day 1. So yeah, ##Vote DoctorHelvetica | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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