EPTWhile I think it's too early to vote, I'm with rgTheSchworz in the sense that Kenpachis claim is the only thing we have to go on at the moment, and the only real thing which breeds suspicion, so I'm definitely considering voting on him, but I'll wait and see what discussion comes up later in the day before I finalize it.
BC's Arkham City - Page 12
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
While I think it's too early to vote, I'm with rgTheSchworz in the sense that Kenpachis claim is the only thing we have to go on at the moment, and the only real thing which breeds suspicion, so I'm definitely considering voting on him, but I'll wait and see what discussion comes up later in the day before I finalize it. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:29 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Contradicting yourself already? This guy is pushing Kenpachi with fear tactics, his excuse for voting is hiding behind a random lynch in the former, which is an attempt to negate any pressure he might face when Kenpachi turns out to be town, which he feels he needs, because he is scum and is the first voter. In that second quote, notice how you break it down into a question of which town role he is? A townie would have thought to reiterate all possibilities. Also of note, Sheth already prompted that Kenpachi could be scum based off his claim, so it's not actually an original thought. | ||
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rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
Lemme explain better: He claims green. This is sub-sub-optimal blue play, as it puts him into spotlight too early and is basically useless. He could as well stay hidden. So, either he's green or scum- at least that's what I think Either way, scum know his role. They know that he's not lying about being green or they know he's scum and perhaps the GF himself. Why else claim green? Either way, Town has to lose from his claim.I'm not advocating a straight-away lynch, we still have time to debate. But a first vote is completely justified, it will certainly make scum take a stance instead of sitting around while you lazy-asses talk about Batman Batman doesn't help town. He has to kill ONE scum only. Why would he scumhunt once the Joker is dead? He won't. He'll sit back, trying to apear moderately town, while he's DT-ing ppl who look scummy. Then he'll kill Hugo once he finds him. He won't scumhunt. He'll manhunt | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:40 rgTheSchworz wrote: WHAAAAAAT??. No contradiction buddy, Lemme explain better: He claims green. This is sub-sub-optimal blue play, as it puts him into spotlight too early and is basically useless. He could as well stay hidden. So, either he's green or scum- at least that's what I think Either way, scum know his role. They know that he's not lying about being green or they know he's scum and perhaps the GF himself. Why else claim green? Either way, Town has to lose from his claim.I'm not advocating a straight-away lynch, we still have time to debate. But a first vote is completely justified, it will certainly make scum take a stance instead of sitting around while you lazy-asses talk about Batman Batman doesn't help town. He has to kill ONE scum only. Why would he scumhunt once the Joker is dead? He won't. He'll sit back, trying to apear moderately town, while he's DT-ing ppl who look scummy. Then he'll kill Hugo once he finds him. He won't scumhunt. He'll manhunt Town has nothing to lose, unless they make a claim that nothing can be made of an issue, as you were attempting to do. As such, pushing Kenpachi for his claim is your scum agenda. Batman has no motivation to simply sit back and watch. The faster town can hunt Hugo, the less Batman risks being end games. Additionally, the Bat can't die at night, so if he's extremely pro-town, he at much less risk of being lynched if it comes down to the end game. Short of knowing her targets, Catwoman will be essentially hoping for a mafia victory, and thus killing the most pro-town people. If we neutralize Catwoman ASAP, and get Batman on our side, we gain a massive advantage. Yes we lose three townies in the immediate future, but it's better than risking losing more when we don't have to. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
 At least I got that little smiley to annoy him. On a more serious note: I don't like people talking about claims d1. That's kenpachi (nothing new there, noone likes Kenpachi...) and Cyber_Cheese right now I think. Actually especially Cyber_Cheese. Why do you think we need to talk about blues so early on, make them / one claim early on to get another "blue" (batman) buffed although we don't know what he's up to yet. Are you trying to get some information and read into what people are saying about that topic to figure out if they're blue or not while talking about that topic? Because that's what I thought right now. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
AS DrH said so prematurely discussing Batman and Catwomen is a day 1 topic, which we shouldn't dwell to much on. Both (and Catwomen especially) getting lynched is good for town, especially if they are hitting each night instead of using their DT skill. But we will have a hard time knowing that they are a thirdparty, as any DT checks will show the role they chose to show, and Batman probably will look like any other townie/blue and Catwomen might apear more on the scummy side (from their posting). So I say lets just ignore the third parties for now and just scumhunt as usual, trying to hit red. Kenpachi townie claim He does this every game, and it means nothing. I find it much much more suspicious that people are making a big deal out of this. And rgTS reason for voting for him is the thinnest reason I have ever seen. It is not scumhunting, it is not applying pressure, it is just plain distracting. Bill Murray's mass claim On February 06 2012 15:52 Bill Murray wrote: That being said, I want to massclaim. It really backs scum up into having to fake names. It's a video game/fictional universe, how many characters are there, or would I be surprised? Are you joking? Massclaiming in a semi-open set up like this? We know what roles might be in the game, but it is not likely every role is in the game. Scum might have gotten a few examples of what roles are in the game (or maybe all?), and could then easily just sit back and get one of their members to do a fake claim. This would make the whole massclaim thing only beneficial to scum as: A) The blueclaims wouldn't give confirmed townies. Or if town belive this to give confirmed townies, a scum is now suddenly confirmed townie. B) Scum, Batman and Catwomen now knows who to target at night. We would maybe lose as much as 5 blues in one night. The whole confirmed townie thing would just cost us alot of townies, and these "confirmed" townies will be dead before they get to do any impact on the game. This proposed massclaim make me suspect be either scum or thirdparty, as those are the only ones IMO who benefits from it. #FOS Bill Murray | ||
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evantrees
Canada497 Posts
Would be a potential reason for joker not to claim. Otherwise seems worth considering particularly if he finds someone he wants to shoot. and bill is already bugging me, great... On February 06 2012 15:51 Bill Murray wrote: I propose no more question askings individual to individual, only statements of factual information, or propositions to the group as a whole Please read the first page again bill, its not too much to ask that doing the second you don't ignore the factual information we have is it? Ignoring the massclaim part. On February 06 2012 15:52 Bill Murray wrote: That being said, I want to massclaim. It really backs scum up into having to fake names. It's a video game/fictional universe, how many characters are there, or would I be surprised? There is a list on the first page of all the names potentially in the game, and this nice note. Note: Some names appear under 2 categories. These players will have to decide to be one or the other for their role. They are not both. Some roles might also have slight alterations to the "standard" although nothing game breaking. Not all names listed are guarenteed to be in this game, however only names listed will be in this game. Each role, much like Asylum, will have unique flavour text to make the gf style roles have more fun with the game. See Arkham Asylum for flavour text examples that I used for when you submit your role choice. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Anyways I'm off to get something to eat know. You're allowed to tell my that mistake was scummy but I won't be able to asnwer for the next hour or so. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
##vote rgTheSchworz | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On February 06 2012 16:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Kenpachi's claim means absolutely nothing, just like it does every game... Sheth's gotta be scum, look at all that useless filler, and the games only just started. My activities going to be sub par for the next 16~24 hours, sorry in advance. Should be right after that though. I disagree with DocH, who's to know if batman/catwoman are going to shoot accurately. That's not a risk I want to take, when we could reduce overall KP and give ourselves more time to analyse instead. To kick off some real discussion. I'd like to discuss the Joker claiming ASAP. Sure he dies overnight, but then we have batman as essentially a buffed up version of the same role from that night until the gf dies. Catwoman's targets on the other hand, where do we balance a known two townie deaths vs potentially a lot more as the game drags on? At first I thought bad idea (I don't like sacrificing town powerroles), but after thinking it through I think this might be a good idea. Because if Joker is a standard vig with one shot he won't help us all that much anyways. Losing him would be bad in the way losing a townie is bad, but getting Batman completely on our side would more than weigh up for that. If Batman have any brains at all he would play standard safe townplay (after the Joker death), do DT checks and push lynches on scumtargets he had checked, to boost his towncred, all the way until he revealed Hugo Strange, which he then would just off, and leave victoriously. The cons of a strategy like this is if there is a Joker but not a Batman in the game. Then we would just lose a blue for nothing. But overall the idea of Joker claiming is a good one. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On February 06 2012 16:50 rgTheSchworz wrote: Way to go claiming Joker. Don't do that. We lose one vig for .,.... nothing, cuz Batman is helping us regardless of the situation. And his task isn't to shoot scum, it's to shoot 1 particular scum. He won't risk giving off info for the sake of helping town, he's 3rd party after all and only cares for his win. It's likely he'll DT ppl till he finds Hugo.And he can't hint at being batman at all. Anyone who claims being town or any blue D1 should be considered for a lynch.It's stupid,useless,and full of WIFOM-Helps scum a ton. For the lack of a proper Random Voting Stage, I vote Kenpachi. Considering the current situation, it's justified and if it goes through, we'll have info at least. There's no mayoral elections so setup chat and strategies shouldn't make scum stick out too much in the thread. This, instead will. I feel Day 1 someone always gets lynched for beingcarelessandthat someone is almost always a townie.So, it doesn't do any harm at all to ramp the pressure now instead of later in the day when we will be hard-pressed for time and are likely to make hasty decisions. This post is an atrocity. RANDOM VOTING STAGE? REALLY? fucking dumb. Its detrimental to blow any KP you get for mere information. Fun Fact: Town loses when i get lynched. (100% of the time) Oh and im not hinting anytihng. i shouldn't give a vibe when i claim townie. Ive claimed townie when i was Mafia, Veteran, Vigilante, Doctor and etc. From my standpoint, i have no opinion on Sheth, however im now deadset on this fool | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On February 06 2012 16:50 rgTheSchworz wrote: Way to go claiming Joker. Don't do that. We lose one vig for .,.... nothing, cuz Batman is helping us regardless of the situation. And his task isn't to shoot scum, it's to shoot 1 particular scum. He won't risk giving off info for the sake of helping town, he's 3rd party after all and only cares for his win. It's likely he'll DT ppl till he finds Hugo.And he can't hint at being batman at all. Anyone who claims being town or any blue D1 should be considered for a lynch.It's stupid,useless,and full of WIFOM-Helps scum a ton. For the lack of a proper Random Voting Stage, I vote Kenpachi. Considering the current situation, it's justified and if it goes through, we'll have info at least. There's no mayoral elections so setup chat and strategies shouldn't make scum stick out too much in the thread. This, instead will. I feel Day 1 someone always gets lynched for beingcarelessandthat someone is almost always a townie.So, it doesn't do any harm at all to ramp the pressure now instead of later in the day when we will be hard-pressed for time and are likely to make hasty decisions. That´s not random voting, you are obviously voting for someone you think did something odd. This is a normal vote, except that at the same time you are not putting any pressure behind it. If you are doing a pressure vote, then pressure, don´t just immediately remove any pressure there might have been there. I´m agreeing with Cyber_Cheese on this one, rgTheSchworz is acting weird. ##Vote: rgTheSchworz Overall, that´s it for now, until more people report in. There´s a few things I find odd though, VisceraEyes with his Deadeye question for example, does he really think there´s a scum-vigi that can shoot roles? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 06 2012 16:11 wherebugsgo wrote: I really love how Dr. H tells everyone to not talk about Batman/Catwoman and then proceeds to post a half page of text on nothing but third party strategy. That's not hypocritical or anything -_- whose smurf are you and why are you already annoying me with useless trash? Yeah I see it came off that way. If you read my whole post you would have seen that I qualified it Some discussion is alright, day 1 is fine it gets people talking at least but scumhunting should always be #1 priority. To clarify I meant to say that it's not something that town should focus on throughout the whole game but it's a good way to get the ball rolling on day 1 and some players might reveal some less than town motives in the process. It is however NOT the focus of our game. The towns focus is to find and lynch/hit scum players not to direct third parties. I'm not contradicting myself at all. it's been in my experience in theme games that the discussion of role mechanics/third parties is so overwhelming that it's still dominating the town day 2+ and that's bad play On February 06 2012 16:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Kenpachi's claim means absolutely nothing, just like it does every game... Sheth's gotta be scum, look at all that useless filler, and the games only just started. My activities going to be sub par for the next 16~24 hours, sorry in advance. Should be right after that though. I disagree with DocH, who's to know if batman/catwoman are going to shoot accurately. That's not a risk I want to take, when we could reduce overall KP and give ourselves more time to analyse instead. To kick off some real discussion. I'd like to discuss the Joker claiming ASAP. Sure he dies overnight, but then we have batman as essentially a buffed up version of the same role from that night until the gf dies. Catwoman's targets on the other hand, where do we balance a known two townie deaths vs potentially a lot more as the game drags on? This would be a good example of that. Because Batman wins off lynches, it doesn't benefit for him to work actively against us. Point out the guy you think is Hugo, don't hand over the vig to Batman. Trading the Joker for a 100% Joker kill that night/day is a good trade. Why would we out Joker to help a third party that has to help us anyway when we can keep our vig potentially for a couple days at least? That's not a good plan. He doesn't gain powers from killing Joker, it's just part of his win condition. You're assuming that handing over the Joker in any way helps us find Hugo, but it doesn't. Keep your mouth shut about the Joker, if you find Hugo that's when you speak up. Batman helps us in the end if he fulfills both of his win conditions. What if we manage lynch Hugo Day 1? Don't jump the gun taking stupid risks this early. At first I thought bad idea (I don't like sacrificing town powerroles), but after thinking it through I think this might be a good idea. Because if Joker is a standard vig with one shot he won't help us all that much anyways. Vig is one of the best pro-town roles Tunkeg, if not THE best in the hands of a good player. Batman is not completely on our side either way. Consider two scenarios: 1. Joker claims and is killed by Batman Outcome - Batman win condition half fulfilled, Town vig dead Night 1 2. Joker doesn't claim and Batman uses DT powers at night Outcome - Equal chance of him either finding Hugo OR The Joker. We lose nothing. We don't NEED to give him some kind of "offering" to get him to "help" us. If he wants to win he has to help us in one capacity and if he manages to find Hugo first (completely plausible) he is no longer a factor in a town victory. There is no logical advantage to town for offering up the Joker. Vig is a crucial role for the town to have especially late game. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On February 06 2012 19:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This would be a good example of that. Because Batman wins off lynches, it doesn't benefit for him to work actively against us. Point out the guy you think is Hugo, don't hand over the vig to Batman. Trading the Joker for a 100% Joker kill that night/day is a good trade. Why would we out Joker to help a third party that has to help us anyway when we can keep our vig potentially for a couple days at least? That's not a good plan. He doesn't gain powers from killing Joker, it's just part of his win condition. If we don't hand the joker over, Batman has to guess who he is, and has a reason to shoot townies. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 06 2012 17:50 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Town has nothing to lose, unless they make a claim that nothing can be made of an issue, as you were attempting to do. As such, pushing Kenpachi for his claim is your scum agenda. Batman has no motivation to simply sit back and watch. The faster town can hunt Hugo, the less Batman risks being end games. Additionally, the Bat can't die at night, so if he's extremely pro-town, he at much less risk of being lynched if it comes down to the end game. Short of knowing her targets, Catwoman will be essentially hoping for a mafia victory, and thus killing the most pro-town people. If we neutralize Catwoman ASAP, and get Batman on our side, we gain a massive advantage. Yes we lose three townies in the immediate future, but it's better than risking losing more when we don't have to. Catwoman is immune to night hits and is not mafia, lynching her is much worse than lynching anybody on the tyger side of things. Town wins by lynching scum. Period. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 06 2012 19:04 Cyber_Cheese wrote: If we don't hand the joker over, Batman has to guess who he is, and has a reason to shoot townies. And why would he not shoot townies looking for Hugo? On "honor"? He can't claim so we can't hold him to it and he doesn't care if we win or not. He's going to either DT or shoot every night based on his preferences regardless of whether or not he hits Joker early or not. It will take him a bit out of the game sooner, but isn't this irrelevant considering no one is supposedly allowed to roleclaim anyway? | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
1) kenpachi is lying - not protown 2) kenpachi isn't lying and is expendable (he's just a townie) - not protown to out d1, better than lynching a detective 3) kenpachi is mafia - not protown I'm leaning towards 3 due to his paper-thin counter vote on rgtheschworz with 0 reasoning other than LOL I CAUGHT U IT WAS A TARP!!!!!!!!1!. I was leaning town on him until that action. There isn't a whole lot to go on, so far, so this is still definitely only semi-serious... Another reason for this vote is so that we don't out a blue role. Let's go ahead and chalk up some hypocrisy, wifom, and omgus in his play as well... holy non-rvs vote, batman ##vote: kenpachi | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
The mass claim is weak, just looking at things that Poison Ivy can be two roles (Medic and Vigilante) same deal with Harley Quinn and Two-Face can be either Vigilante or Detective. (AKA, what will You do when You have 2 Two-Faces or even 3?) The interesting thing though is Scum Doc, besides Scum Vig and Scum RB(Talia al Ghul). And to make it even funnier, there's DT-Vet too (Ra's Al Ghul). Killing Hugo(GF Medic or Jailkeeper?) removes Deadshot's(additional kp, the Vig I believe) power from the game. So: Mafia has 3KP and a lot of additional actions. They're like mini-town setup on their own. Where that puts us? Mafia can easily fakeclaim, because they have the powers, easy as that. About Schworz, I just ponder, is he IWANNABETHEHEROTOWN or he's like scumvoteasfastaspossible, pardon, but piling votes on him that fast does might be a little wrong (and that early in the day, sup dead set lynch when it's left 8-10 hours). On the other hand, we kind-of can't have Vigi kill him if he's scum.. Y'know, the Doc. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
On February 06 2012 19:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Yeah I see it came off that way. If you read my whole post you would have seen that I qualified it To clarify I meant to say that it's not something that town should focus on throughout the whole game but it's a good way to get the ball rolling on day 1 and some players might reveal some less than town motives in the process. It is however NOT the focus of our game. The towns focus is to find and lynch/hit scum players not to direct third parties. I'm not contradicting myself at all. it's been in my experience in theme games that the discussion of role mechanics/third parties is so overwhelming that it's still dominating the town day 2+ and that's bad play This would be a good example of that. Because Batman wins off lynches, it doesn't benefit for him to work actively against us. Point out the guy you think is Hugo, don't hand over the vig to Batman. Trading the Joker for a 100% Joker kill that night/day is a good trade. Why would we out Joker to help a third party that has to help us anyway when we can keep our vig potentially for a couple days at least? That's not a good plan. He doesn't gain powers from killing Joker, it's just part of his win condition. You're assuming that handing over the Joker in any way helps us find Hugo, but it doesn't. Keep your mouth shut about the Joker, if you find Hugo that's when you speak up. Batman helps us in the end if he fulfills both of his win conditions. What if we manage lynch Hugo Day 1? Don't jump the gun taking stupid risks this early. Vig is one of the best pro-town roles Tunkeg, if not THE best in the hands of a good player. Batman is not completely on our side either way. Consider two scenarios: 1. Joker claims and is killed by Batman Outcome - Batman win condition half fulfilled, Town vig dead Night 1 2. Joker doesn't claim and Batman uses DT powers at night Outcome - Equal chance of him either finding Hugo OR The Joker. We lose nothing. We don't NEED to give him some kind of "offering" to get him to "help" us. If he wants to win he has to help us in one capacity and if he manages to find Hugo first (completely plausible) he is no longer a factor in a town victory. There is no logical advantage to town for offering up the Joker. Vig is a crucial role for the town to have especially late game. Well, there is a third option and that is that Joker doesn't claim and Batman just do hits at night as he have no need to DT his targets as long as both his targets are alive. And there is alot bigger chance that Batman will hit townies than it is for him to hit scum (22 townies to 7). You also have the chance that Batman gets Hugo first, and after this he will pretty much be on the scum side (while wanting to appear as townie as he can, as he can only be daykilled). But I agree we don't NEED to sacrifice the Joker to get Batman on our side. I think we are quite capable to win this without cutting a deal with Batman. But I belive it would be beneficial to town to do so, thats all. | ||
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
On February 06 2012 18:41 Tunkeg wrote: Joker claim At first I thought bad idea (I don't like sacrificing town powerroles), but after thinking it through I think this might be a good idea. Because if Joker is a standard vig with one shot he won't help us all that much anyways. Losing him would be bad in the way losing a townie is bad, but getting Batman completely on our side would more than weigh up for that. If Batman have any brains at all he would play standard safe townplay (after the Joker death), do DT checks and push lynches on scumtargets he had checked, to boost his towncred, all the way until he revealed Hugo Strange, which he then would just off, and leave victoriously. The cons of a strategy like this is if there is a Joker but not a Batman in the game. Then we would just lose a blue for nothing. But overall the idea of Joker claiming is a good one. I dont like this idea. I agree that as soon as the Joker dies, Batman works with the town. At least until Strange is dead too. SO if Joker claims, Batman kills him and then joins town. But, actually, even with the joker alive, i do not think batman will start shooting randomly. His victory condition includes killing two specific people, one town and one mafia. At least one of them is going to die during this game, so the only way batman could NOT fullfil his victory condition is if one side wins before he manages to kill the target that belong to this side. Therefore, at least during the beginning of the game, Batman should not want to favor any side . Therefore it makes more sense for him to use his DT power rather than shoot. And even if we sacrifice the Joker, if we get to Strange early, then Batman wont help us cleaning the remaining scum. We should discuss joker claiming once Hugo Strange is dead. Then it could be a good way to get batman off our asses. And as far as town is concerned, catwoman should be considered as scum. She wins if scum wins. She migth lose if town wins. A pretty strong one as she is immune to night hits, and cannot be discovered via DT. | ||
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