• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:46
CEST 15:46
KST 22:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 20258Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202579RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder1EWC 2025 - Replay Pack2Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced26BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update Serral wins EWC 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time
Tourneys
TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Afreeca app available on Samsung smart TV [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
How many questions are in the Publix survey?
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 607 users

Sleeper Cell Mafia II - Page 78

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 76 77 78 79 80 Next
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
February 14 2012 16:43 GMT
#1541
oh now that wasn't much fun at all. You should have her have Dyslexia along with being Sane, so she would think "wait, what if I read that wrong and it's actually INsane?"

lol j/k my brother has dyslexia and that case is very well possible without the correct treatment

anyway, I love the idea of adding distrust in something simple like that.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
February 14 2012 16:47 GMT
#1542
On February 15 2012 01:43 Zephirdd wrote:
oh now that wasn't much fun at all. You should have her have Dyslexia along with being Sane, so she would think "wait, what if I read that wrong and it's actually INsane?"

lol j/k my brother has dyslexia and that case is very well possible without the correct treatment

anyway, I love the idea of adding distrust in something simple like that.

Lol.

I had no idea Leo would get lynched Day1 lol. Guess it was a good thing for town that mechanic was there!
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
February 14 2012 16:47 GMT
#1543
Thanks again to iGrok and GreyMist for the sweet moderation <3

I feel like with marginally better town or blue play this would have been a totally different story. Looking over it, I think my big mistake this game was going after Refallen. It should have been fairly obvious that his interaction with redFF was not scummy, but I wasn't able to figure that out. I should have been more aggressive about V7's claim-- I knew something was fishy but wasn't able to sniff it out before getting shot ;_;

Thanks for a fun game everyone!

Also btw one thing iGrok to take a look at is Zona's Purgatory Mafia. She had like 3-4 alternative win / stalemate avoidance conditions in her win conditions. I think a couple of things in the style of that might have avoided the weirdness at the end of the game. Keep up the good work!
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
February 14 2012 17:16 GMT
#1544
On February 15 2012 01:47 Blazinghand wrote:
Thanks again to iGrok and GreyMist for the sweet moderation <3

I feel like with marginally better town or blue play this would have been a totally different story. Looking over it, I think my big mistake this game was going after Refallen. It should have been fairly obvious that his interaction with redFF was not scummy, but I wasn't able to figure that out. I should have been more aggressive about V7's claim-- I knew something was fishy but wasn't able to sniff it out before getting shot ;_;

Thanks for a fun game everyone!

Also btw one thing iGrok to take a look at is Zona's Purgatory Mafia. She had like 3-4 alternative win / stalemate avoidance conditions in her win conditions. I think a couple of things in the style of that might have avoided the weirdness at the end of the game. Keep up the good work!

I'll take a look at ideas like that. The difficulty with that is that I can't make alternate win scenarios public, because all the roles are mostly) secret. Still, that's a good idea, and I'll probably incorporate that into the next Sleeper Cell, if/when there is one.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
February 14 2012 17:22 GMT
#1545
On February 15 2012 02:16 iGrok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 01:47 Blazinghand wrote:
Thanks again to iGrok and GreyMist for the sweet moderation <3

I feel like with marginally better town or blue play this would have been a totally different story. Looking over it, I think my big mistake this game was going after Refallen. It should have been fairly obvious that his interaction with redFF was not scummy, but I wasn't able to figure that out. I should have been more aggressive about V7's claim-- I knew something was fishy but wasn't able to sniff it out before getting shot ;_;

Thanks for a fun game everyone!

Also btw one thing iGrok to take a look at is Zona's Purgatory Mafia. She had like 3-4 alternative win / stalemate avoidance conditions in her win conditions. I think a couple of things in the style of that might have avoided the weirdness at the end of the game. Keep up the good work!

I'll take a look at ideas like that. The difficulty with that is that I can't make alternate win scenarios public, because all the roles are mostly) secret. Still, that's a good idea, and I'll probably incorporate that into the next Sleeper Cell, if/when there is one.


Oh yeah in Zona's setup I guess it's different because the exact role distribution was known to all factions. Maybe a change of the wording to be "When there are 0 town-aligned players, or there is no way to prevent this from coming to pass" or something like that? I'm sure you'll think of something.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 18:35 GMT
#1546
I think the simple solution is you must have more than 50% of the votes to lynch someone or there is a no lyncg. That or change the tie policy.
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
February 14 2012 18:55 GMT
#1547
...or just remove BProof role.

The reason the "stalemate" occured is that the number of players became even at a point. If it had been odd all game long, there would have been no problem. 6v5, 5v4, 4v3, 3v2 and 2v1 scenarios are all LYLO scenarios with a decent win chance for town - town would have to lynch scum every day and hit the right scum on the last day; scum would need one mislynch to win.

This would fix basically everything.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:27:15
February 14 2012 19:27 GMT
#1548
That means removal of all protection roles (Doctor, Veteran) and NK roles (Vigilante) that would affect the numbers.
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 19:28 GMT
#1549
I'm sorry for blowing up like that.



I think if you just had a normal wincon for the scum ie The mafia wins when they equal or outnumber the remaining townies or nothing can keep that from happening, then this would have been an excellent setup.

On February 14 2012 23:52 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 23:47 Hesmyrr wrote:
I mean, I understand it being frustrating to play in a game where you don't think you have a chance at winning, or very little chance, but just try to make the best of it. Or, if you need to, just ask the host to replace you. Then criticize the setup in a constructive manner.

It's more of "I gave my best for this game, investing hours into it, because I assumed this game was winnable. However, at the end of the game I learned it was impossible for the town faction to win unless mafia turned out to be massively incompetent at understanding the rules (which happened)". RedFF is definitely behaving poorly, but failure to understand the problem is also quite problematic for the future.


Of course, but this happens in mafia. It's perfectly fine to criticize the setup. I agree that the setup needs to be looked at to prevent a situation like this from happening again.

We're really discussing three different things.

1) Does the setup need to be looked at? My opinion is yes. It needs to be somehow tweaked to prevent this situation.
2) Given the circumstances did iGrok handle it correctly? My opinion is yes. I think that the calls he made were correct. The situation was kinda shitty, but he made the best of it.
But the issue should have never come about in the first place right?
3) Is it okay to be mad about it? My opinion is yes. But it's not okay to throw abuse around or ask to never allow iGrok to host again. If you don't agree with something, you criticize it, and perhaps even offer a solution. Don't just throw a tantrum.

I offered a solution.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 19:39 GMT
#1550
Acctually ya zephs idea is the best. The core of this setup is NOT the BP it is the communication that scum use and thw inception agent.

I would say go for town having two dreamer roles that are not identical.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1551
On February 14 2012 12:26 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 12:23 redFF wrote:
On February 14 2012 12:22 Hesmyrr wrote:
I was actually afraid of day-vig / vigilante, but yeah after Jackal flipped they definitely should have pushed. It was kind of bad to pull that gambit when you have no idea Jackal is the role that could screw you over.

If Jackal was vig:
5 SCUM 5 TOWN
Scum fail and is lynch, town is killed and scum is shot.
3 SCUM 4 TOWN

he wasn't a vig though

I was basically a day vig. I almost lynched you day 3 just to make you stfu.

no you weren't
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1552
On February 14 2012 12:22 GreYMisT wrote:
You once again assume that all scum know each other and they are able to perfectly coordinate their kills without shooting you. its possible, but we can't just ask all the players if they know who all their scummates are.

Then that's an issue with the setup that should have been fixed before the game began.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
February 14 2012 20:37 GMT
#1553
On February 15 2012 04:39 vaderseven wrote:
Acctually ya zephs idea is the best. The core of this setup is NOT the BP it is the communication that scum use and thw inception agent.

I would say go for town having two dreamer roles that are not identical.


You should have one of them be called The Architect, just because it would be a good complement (name-wise) to Inception Agent.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
February 14 2012 20:58 GMT
#1554
On February 15 2012 05:17 redFF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 12:26 Jackal58 wrote:
On February 14 2012 12:23 redFF wrote:
On February 14 2012 12:22 Hesmyrr wrote:
I was actually afraid of day-vig / vigilante, but yeah after Jackal flipped they definitely should have pushed. It was kind of bad to pull that gambit when you have no idea Jackal is the role that could screw you over.

If Jackal was vig:
5 SCUM 5 TOWN
Scum fail and is lynch, town is killed and scum is shot.
3 SCUM 4 TOWN

he wasn't a vig though

I was basically a day vig. I almost lynched you day 3 just to make you stfu.

no you weren't

Only in the sense that it wasn't an additional kill.
Life can only kill you once.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 21:08 GMT
#1555
so then it's not a dayvig
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 21:37 GMT
#1556
Some groups play the day vig role where the day instantly ends without a lynch when the day vig shoots. The role is super similae if you are thinking of that kind of day vig.
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
February 14 2012 21:38 GMT
#1557
I don't get it.
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 21:41 GMT
#1558
On February 15 2012 06:37 vaderseven wrote:
Some groups play the day vig role where the day instantly ends without a lynch when the day vig shoots. The role is super similae if you are thinking of that kind of day vig.

A day vig is an extra town kp.

This thing just ends the day early, town still loses a lynch.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 21:47 GMT
#1559
On February 14 2012 12:20 vaderseven wrote:
Oh i didn't realize the power jackal had fuck-

SENATOR: You are a Senator up for re-election. Because you are a politician, you are corrupt as shit. You can completely ignore your constituents and cancel the lynch of the day, substituting your own target. Of course, if you do this, you will be impeached and will be unable to do this again. (You will not be modconfirmed, its just a 1-shot power with flavor).

redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 21:48 GMT
#1560
i know what it does lol
Prev 1 76 77 78 79 80 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
Mondays #45
WardiTV955
Rex168
CranKy Ducklings122
IntoTheiNu 8
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 477
Lowko333
Rex 168
mouzHeroMarine 25
mcanning 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1946
Bisu 1530
Barracks 1125
EffOrt 1124
Mini 744
Stork 610
Larva 601
Soma 571
Nal_rA 532
Hyun 434
[ Show more ]
ZerO 299
Snow 233
Killer 218
Mind 183
ToSsGirL 180
Rush 138
Dewaltoss 108
Sharp 73
Movie 58
soO 51
sSak 49
Backho 44
Noble 37
sorry 37
Sea.KH 35
sas.Sziky 34
Free 32
scan(afreeca) 29
Icarus 28
[sc1f]eonzerg 27
yabsab 20
JulyZerg 16
Shinee 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Terrorterran 6
ivOry 5
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
Gorgc5380
qojqva2815
Dendi1437
KheZu549
XcaliburYe332
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1442
olofmeister988
sgares242
flusha117
markeloff41
edward8
Other Games
singsing2053
hiko931
B2W.Neo543
crisheroes440
XaKoH 192
oskar162
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH154
• StrangeGG 69
• davetesta45
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4325
• WagamamaTV491
League of Legends
• Nemesis5430
• Jankos1040
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 15m
WardiTV European League
1d 2h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 10h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Online Event
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.