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Sleeper Cell Mafia II - Page 78

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
February 14 2012 16:43 GMT
#1541
oh now that wasn't much fun at all. You should have her have Dyslexia along with being Sane, so she would think "wait, what if I read that wrong and it's actually INsane?"

lol j/k my brother has dyslexia and that case is very well possible without the correct treatment

anyway, I love the idea of adding distrust in something simple like that.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
February 14 2012 16:47 GMT
#1542
On February 15 2012 01:43 Zephirdd wrote:
oh now that wasn't much fun at all. You should have her have Dyslexia along with being Sane, so she would think "wait, what if I read that wrong and it's actually INsane?"

lol j/k my brother has dyslexia and that case is very well possible without the correct treatment

anyway, I love the idea of adding distrust in something simple like that.

Lol.

I had no idea Leo would get lynched Day1 lol. Guess it was a good thing for town that mechanic was there!
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
February 14 2012 16:47 GMT
#1543
Thanks again to iGrok and GreyMist for the sweet moderation <3

I feel like with marginally better town or blue play this would have been a totally different story. Looking over it, I think my big mistake this game was going after Refallen. It should have been fairly obvious that his interaction with redFF was not scummy, but I wasn't able to figure that out. I should have been more aggressive about V7's claim-- I knew something was fishy but wasn't able to sniff it out before getting shot ;_;

Thanks for a fun game everyone!

Also btw one thing iGrok to take a look at is Zona's Purgatory Mafia. She had like 3-4 alternative win / stalemate avoidance conditions in her win conditions. I think a couple of things in the style of that might have avoided the weirdness at the end of the game. Keep up the good work!
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
February 14 2012 17:16 GMT
#1544
On February 15 2012 01:47 Blazinghand wrote:
Thanks again to iGrok and GreyMist for the sweet moderation <3

I feel like with marginally better town or blue play this would have been a totally different story. Looking over it, I think my big mistake this game was going after Refallen. It should have been fairly obvious that his interaction with redFF was not scummy, but I wasn't able to figure that out. I should have been more aggressive about V7's claim-- I knew something was fishy but wasn't able to sniff it out before getting shot ;_;

Thanks for a fun game everyone!

Also btw one thing iGrok to take a look at is Zona's Purgatory Mafia. She had like 3-4 alternative win / stalemate avoidance conditions in her win conditions. I think a couple of things in the style of that might have avoided the weirdness at the end of the game. Keep up the good work!

I'll take a look at ideas like that. The difficulty with that is that I can't make alternate win scenarios public, because all the roles are mostly) secret. Still, that's a good idea, and I'll probably incorporate that into the next Sleeper Cell, if/when there is one.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
February 14 2012 17:22 GMT
#1545
On February 15 2012 02:16 iGrok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 01:47 Blazinghand wrote:
Thanks again to iGrok and GreyMist for the sweet moderation <3

I feel like with marginally better town or blue play this would have been a totally different story. Looking over it, I think my big mistake this game was going after Refallen. It should have been fairly obvious that his interaction with redFF was not scummy, but I wasn't able to figure that out. I should have been more aggressive about V7's claim-- I knew something was fishy but wasn't able to sniff it out before getting shot ;_;

Thanks for a fun game everyone!

Also btw one thing iGrok to take a look at is Zona's Purgatory Mafia. She had like 3-4 alternative win / stalemate avoidance conditions in her win conditions. I think a couple of things in the style of that might have avoided the weirdness at the end of the game. Keep up the good work!

I'll take a look at ideas like that. The difficulty with that is that I can't make alternate win scenarios public, because all the roles are mostly) secret. Still, that's a good idea, and I'll probably incorporate that into the next Sleeper Cell, if/when there is one.


Oh yeah in Zona's setup I guess it's different because the exact role distribution was known to all factions. Maybe a change of the wording to be "When there are 0 town-aligned players, or there is no way to prevent this from coming to pass" or something like that? I'm sure you'll think of something.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 18:35 GMT
#1546
I think the simple solution is you must have more than 50% of the votes to lynch someone or there is a no lyncg. That or change the tie policy.
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
February 14 2012 18:55 GMT
#1547
...or just remove BProof role.

The reason the "stalemate" occured is that the number of players became even at a point. If it had been odd all game long, there would have been no problem. 6v5, 5v4, 4v3, 3v2 and 2v1 scenarios are all LYLO scenarios with a decent win chance for town - town would have to lynch scum every day and hit the right scum on the last day; scum would need one mislynch to win.

This would fix basically everything.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 19:27:15
February 14 2012 19:27 GMT
#1548
That means removal of all protection roles (Doctor, Veteran) and NK roles (Vigilante) that would affect the numbers.
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 19:28 GMT
#1549
I'm sorry for blowing up like that.



I think if you just had a normal wincon for the scum ie The mafia wins when they equal or outnumber the remaining townies or nothing can keep that from happening, then this would have been an excellent setup.

On February 14 2012 23:52 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 23:47 Hesmyrr wrote:
I mean, I understand it being frustrating to play in a game where you don't think you have a chance at winning, or very little chance, but just try to make the best of it. Or, if you need to, just ask the host to replace you. Then criticize the setup in a constructive manner.

It's more of "I gave my best for this game, investing hours into it, because I assumed this game was winnable. However, at the end of the game I learned it was impossible for the town faction to win unless mafia turned out to be massively incompetent at understanding the rules (which happened)". RedFF is definitely behaving poorly, but failure to understand the problem is also quite problematic for the future.


Of course, but this happens in mafia. It's perfectly fine to criticize the setup. I agree that the setup needs to be looked at to prevent a situation like this from happening again.

We're really discussing three different things.

1) Does the setup need to be looked at? My opinion is yes. It needs to be somehow tweaked to prevent this situation.
2) Given the circumstances did iGrok handle it correctly? My opinion is yes. I think that the calls he made were correct. The situation was kinda shitty, but he made the best of it.
But the issue should have never come about in the first place right?
3) Is it okay to be mad about it? My opinion is yes. But it's not okay to throw abuse around or ask to never allow iGrok to host again. If you don't agree with something, you criticize it, and perhaps even offer a solution. Don't just throw a tantrum.

I offered a solution.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 19:39 GMT
#1550
Acctually ya zephs idea is the best. The core of this setup is NOT the BP it is the communication that scum use and thw inception agent.

I would say go for town having two dreamer roles that are not identical.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1551
On February 14 2012 12:26 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 12:23 redFF wrote:
On February 14 2012 12:22 Hesmyrr wrote:
I was actually afraid of day-vig / vigilante, but yeah after Jackal flipped they definitely should have pushed. It was kind of bad to pull that gambit when you have no idea Jackal is the role that could screw you over.

If Jackal was vig:
5 SCUM 5 TOWN
Scum fail and is lynch, town is killed and scum is shot.
3 SCUM 4 TOWN

he wasn't a vig though

I was basically a day vig. I almost lynched you day 3 just to make you stfu.

no you weren't
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1552
On February 14 2012 12:22 GreYMisT wrote:
You once again assume that all scum know each other and they are able to perfectly coordinate their kills without shooting you. its possible, but we can't just ask all the players if they know who all their scummates are.

Then that's an issue with the setup that should have been fixed before the game began.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
February 14 2012 20:37 GMT
#1553
On February 15 2012 04:39 vaderseven wrote:
Acctually ya zephs idea is the best. The core of this setup is NOT the BP it is the communication that scum use and thw inception agent.

I would say go for town having two dreamer roles that are not identical.


You should have one of them be called The Architect, just because it would be a good complement (name-wise) to Inception Agent.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
February 14 2012 20:58 GMT
#1554
On February 15 2012 05:17 redFF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 12:26 Jackal58 wrote:
On February 14 2012 12:23 redFF wrote:
On February 14 2012 12:22 Hesmyrr wrote:
I was actually afraid of day-vig / vigilante, but yeah after Jackal flipped they definitely should have pushed. It was kind of bad to pull that gambit when you have no idea Jackal is the role that could screw you over.

If Jackal was vig:
5 SCUM 5 TOWN
Scum fail and is lynch, town is killed and scum is shot.
3 SCUM 4 TOWN

he wasn't a vig though

I was basically a day vig. I almost lynched you day 3 just to make you stfu.

no you weren't

Only in the sense that it wasn't an additional kill.
Life can only kill you once.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 21:08 GMT
#1555
so then it's not a dayvig
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 21:37 GMT
#1556
Some groups play the day vig role where the day instantly ends without a lynch when the day vig shoots. The role is super similae if you are thinking of that kind of day vig.
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
February 14 2012 21:38 GMT
#1557
I don't get it.
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 21:41 GMT
#1558
On February 15 2012 06:37 vaderseven wrote:
Some groups play the day vig role where the day instantly ends without a lynch when the day vig shoots. The role is super similae if you are thinking of that kind of day vig.

A day vig is an extra town kp.

This thing just ends the day early, town still loses a lynch.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 14 2012 21:47 GMT
#1559
On February 14 2012 12:20 vaderseven wrote:
Oh i didn't realize the power jackal had fuck-

SENATOR: You are a Senator up for re-election. Because you are a politician, you are corrupt as shit. You can completely ignore your constituents and cancel the lynch of the day, substituting your own target. Of course, if you do this, you will be impeached and will be unable to do this again. (You will not be modconfirmed, its just a 1-shot power with flavor).

redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
February 14 2012 21:48 GMT
#1560
i know what it does lol
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