Purgatory Mafia - Page 6

Meaningless. Nothing much is happening yet, though.

About 18 hours and 6 pages later, Harbringer presents a "Palmar is Lurking" case:


Palmar responds with more trolling:



30 minutes later, he makes his first post that isn't an obvious troll:



Talking about this post: Palmar makes a couple obvious observations about scum and claims. His statements are correct and I agree with them. However, the person he's addressing with the "seer claiming is dumb" statement is Harbringer, whose previous post was like 13 hours earlier:
+ Show Spoiler +

And had already been shot down by several people. Palmar here is contributing on the surface, but really was just repeating what had already been said. He asks a couple questions, but it's not real pressure.

Overall, this post isn't BAD. In the context of several scumhunting and pressure actions on d1 this would be a normal Palmar post, actually. He WOULD slap down a guy who's already been slapped down. Normally he'd call the guy out by name, but slapping a guy down is exactly what Palmar would do. Shortly thereafter, Syllogism says that Palmar is normally more active d1, and therefore is likely scum out of all the lurkers.

Dirkzor says Palmar is stifling discussion.

Palmar's retort:


At this point, he enters the discussion actively.



Hedging on BL. Notes that he can't really pick risk cause risk hasn't posted. Says he wouldn't mind lynching Jack or RoL for being experienced lurkers.

No commitments or analysis.



This is a fair statement. In the context of Palmar scumhunting and providing pressure, this statement wouldn't ring any bells.



A meta-defense. Meh.

No comittments or analysis, asks for syllo's read.



So, there are two ways you can read this:
1) Palmar is town and trying to start conversations.
2) Palmar is scum and picked a topic he'd feel comfortable talking about by uh, literally asking himself a question.

This is his first real analysis-- within a few hours of him becoming active. Labeling a couple dudes as town is pretty Palmar-town-ey to do. I've seen him try to scumhunt by confirming townies and process of elimination.

I don't know why he's asking about me though; clearly the answer to that question is "Blazinghand is a sexy beast, I stay up late dreaming about him. <3"



So, let's talk about this for a moment. I think Palmar is actually providing some real pressure on Bluelightz here. This is about 20 hours after Grack first fingered Bluelightz and I jumped on him like a dog on an ass-flavored biscuit. He does this as Bluelightz posts his first of many "hey guys I'm gonna use 20 lines to tell you I have no scumreads" posts.

This looks normal to me. I'd ask Bluelightz this in the same situation.

Here's where we get to the contentious part of the issue:

Bluelightz responds:


A typical bad response from either a newbie town or a newbie scum. What would you do in this situation? He's hedging, but nominally answers your questions, but provides a reason that sounds like an excuse. He's very hesitant.

I know what I would do. I'd pressure him more. I'd ask him "why not X player, why not Y player" and so on. I'd say "Is that your only reason?" and "you really believe in lynch all lurkers?" and "of the active players, who is the scummiest?" and "why so uncertain?"

I'd berate him HARD for such a hedging response. I'd be all over him. I think most people would.

Now, maybe Palmar thought this was an acceptable response, right? No, Palmar thought this was a crappy response. So Palmar decided to continue to talk to BL.



This question asks: "Are you sure?" And it does it in a roundabout, generally crappy way. This is not a good way to up the ante on an opponent. Not at all. The question isn't "can Palmar provide some sort of justification for this" because I guarantee you 100% he CAN. He's Palmar, he can justify anything.

The question is, "would a town player use this as a follow-up to Bluelight's hedging?"

I don't think so. I feel like this is a bad way to increase pressure. I feel like it's weird. It doesn't seem like something you'd do if you really wanted to lay on the hurt. On the other hand, I'm not sure why scum Palmar would do this either. This is just... well, dumb.

Palmar has some interaction with Syllogism calling him dumb again, and we get this:



This is pretty indirect and noncommittal for an FoS, which is basically what it is.



There's the Palmar we know :3

So wiggles is silent at first, then he comes out swinging with a big post. I'm gonna break it down for y'all right here.



Basic Breadcrumb info. Not a perfectly accurate representation of WBG's claim, which was substantially more nuanced than that, and was actually somewhat transparent given what he claimed his night actions were, but yeah breadcrumbs don't support claims they cover flips. This is a true statement and is something that needed to be cleared up. Contrast Palmar's post which says the same thing, but 12 hours later. This basic info is a null read as opposed to a "wtf" read because it needed to be said. After it's been said, it's been said.



Here Wiggles goes after me. I think his case is shitty, not because any fact he says is untrue, but because his conclusions don't match his assumptions. Or he just didn't read my posts. I call him out for this later, and will address this in more detail when we reach it in his filter.

The rest of what Wiggles say is obvious and semi-obvious but correct strategy info that hasn't been covered yet. No read.

So overall I don't think this post says anything about Wiggles other than that he's writing stuff.

So, moving on from his first post:



Wiggles and I are arguing about my case vs BL. Here he makes some dumb arguments based on not understanding me. No read.



More Mr. Wiggles being dumb. I think he just misreads all my posts. He makes a commitment here though, which is something that Palmar didn't.

First off, this is a bunch of BS. Bluelightz is playing like dick and at that moment had contributed nothing of value. That's not super relevant to the actual accusation though.



Alright, Wiggles. Let's see what you got.


Mr. Wiggles finds this more non-committal and hedging than I did. This is indeed one of many unhelpful posts by Palmar.





So Mr. Wiggles notes the same thing I do about Palmar's weirdness with Bluelightz. He also thinks the follow-up is bad. From a "Wiggles-as-town" perspective, there's two possibilities here: 1) Palmar got an accurate read of town from BL's wishiwashiness, or 2) Palmar is scum trying to look town.

Palmar's defense comes in two parts: Meta and his interaction with Bluelightz.

Quibbling and argument. The big thing to note here is that neither of these players have provided links to games that Palmar is in. I don't like Meta, and I don't know these guys well, so I can't really comment on this. I'll have to go read the other games to determine if this fits in Palmar's meta, and I don't even know if Palmar has a consistent meta so i'll have to read even MORE games if I want to find that out. If someone could hook me up with some links to Palmar's filters in other games that would be, well, nice. If not I guess I'll have to go look myself ;_;

The second part is the interesting part:



Palmar points out some SERIOUS flaws in Wiggles' case. However, he still has some serious issues going on-- even though Palmar didn't pull the dayvig situation straight out of his ass, he still used it instead of better pressure moves. His issue here wasn't really lack of pressure, it was lack of REAL pressure, or helpful pressure. ._.