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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
As a general rule, townies need to step up and take leadership roles, rather than leaning on any confirmed people. Force the mafia to talk and they will slip up, right?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost.
It's acceptable for not everyone to agree on "lynch all liars"-- as long as a fair majority of us do, Nobody will lie. But lying or not, I think the thing we should focus on here is lynching lurkers. I say this because we NEED to make it so mafia talks. Everyone has to contribute. The reason lurking is considered a "viable strategy" is because the less a mafia guy talks, the less mistakes he makes, and the less chances there are that he'll seriously blunder.
If there were no serious repercussions, a Mafia guy will barely talk at all. This game begins with assymetric information-- Mafia know who's town (but not blue), but each individual townie/blue doesn't know anything but his own alignment. In this case, it's absolutely vital we encourage mafia members to talk so we can flush them out. They won't slip up unless they have the opportunity to do so.
This is the prime reason why lynching lurkers is a good idea. If we all strongly believe in this policy, there will be no lurkers. All the townies will be contributing, and all the mafia members will be torn between contributing AND trying to be unhelpful. It puts a huge amount of pressure on the mafia members. The additional reason for lynching lurkers is that we need all of the help the townspeople can give. It's important also to provide a lively conversation for the Blues (we have 2) to take part in. We have a cop and/or a rolechecker and they can't adequately get their information into the conversation without there being a conversation to begin with.
If it turns out we have a lot of townie lurkers even implementing this policy, we're dead anyways. The idea that we shouldn't lynch lurkers because there might be a lot of townie lurkers is inherently flawed-- if there's 1 townie lurker, it's good to get rid of him anyways, and if there are a lot of townie lurkers we're basically boned.
So, we should Lynch All Lurkers. Anyone who disagrees with me better have a damn good reason why.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:01 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:
Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much I disagree. I feel like if we simply implement this as a policy lynch now, we will be able to go into the middle of the game and be able to build more effective cases on people given that town would have no reason to create contradictions in their posts.
The fact of the matter is, Lynch All Liars discourages lies. Even if we don't adopt this as a town policy, as long as it's known that a fair number of us are doing this, Mafia feels more pressure. We need to make it so they don't have a lot of breathing room.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.)
You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker.
##Vote Electricblack
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503
ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.
So hurry up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:17 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, lynching ALL lurkers simply because they are lurking, is a very bad idea, especially in a game with newbies. Lurking should be discouraged, and you will draw suspicion to yourself if you lurk. I strongly disagree with policy lynching lurkers though.
there's a difference between the Town as a whole lynching all lurkers and a few townies believing in that. I don't think everyone should believe in lynching all lurkers, but if a couple of people believe in it and push lurkers into the spotlight, that helps us immeasurably. Please, vote how you believe. I will flush out all the lurkers and bring the mafia to the surface. If I have to do it alone, I will do what I must.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:20 Velinath wrote:
Since there was some clarification posted on Lynch All Liars by xkskc (you and xtf are going to confuse me all game with your similar names):
I would like to add that if you see what you think is a lie, it's probably best to bring it to the attention of the thread. I feel that if we implement Lynch All Liars, the posters in this thread will be good judges of what's a lie and what's a misunderstanding. Given that, we can probably safely implement a Lynch All Liars policy.
I think we have, what, 3 or 4 people currently in favor of this? If we get three or four more, we can consider this policy implemented, as that will give us an unshakable majority.
jaybrundage, what do you think of my modification to Lynch All Lurkers at the bottom of the last page?
To be fair, with 3/4 people believing in Lynch All Liars, that's already fairly solid-- Mafia will automatically have 3/4 people all up on them if they get caught in a lie.
Corollary: Townies, don't lie. Just don't.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yes, That's why i'm talking bout, V-dawg! :D
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
EBWOP that's what I'm talking bout*
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Other notable lurkers:
Hassybaby has not posted yet. Please post.
Tunkeg has not posted yet. Please post.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
xskxc: Indeed, and it's entirely reasonable that Bbite, Tunkeg, ElectricBlack, and Hassybaby are asleep.
That's ok. Once EB wakes up and posts, I'll unvote him.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
In fact, given that most of those people are European, it's fairly likely they're asleep. I'm going to discuss our other semi-lurkers.
ey215 has made a single post so far:
On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all!  Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this.
He basically says... absolutely nothing. He indicates that we need to use common sense about lies, and that we should lynch scum before lurkers if possible. That's very accurate, ey215, but it's clever how you've managed to say nothing of any import, and this is your sole post, AND you're awake (american).
No substance, all fluff. Noob or Mafia? too early to tell.
On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think?
Another guy with literally 1 post that says nothing. obvious we shouldn't lynch people for misspeaking. And... of COURSE we need to figure out what to do as a group. We VOTE on the lynch.
What do I think? I think you're either absurdly unhelpful or a mafioso doing a bad job of blending in. You're the same as the people who haven't posted yet, because YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING YET.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
@jay: our goal is to produce a fair amount of comment without any spam. Ideally we make people talk, in a fashion that's fairly easy to keep track of, and maximize the opportunity for mafia to slip up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Does capitalization matter in ##Vote statements?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
##Unvote Electricblack
##Vote ElectricBlack
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Actually, BKEXE is more suspicious than ElectricBlack, since he's actually showed up and actively posted BS, whereas ElectricBlack is in the UK and likely asleep. Electricblack, I expect you to post and comment and weigh in and be helpful when you wake up-- but I can't really say you're a lurker for not posting at 4 am, lol.
##Unvote ElectricBlack
BKEXE, you have earned my scorn.
##Vote BroodKingEXE
I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
No problem, BKEXE. Glad to see you're back.
The time zone difference is a problem, but that's why we start discussing early-- so we have several rounds of discussion before the lynch. This is why it's crucial to get talking and voting as soon as possible.
What do you think of "Lynch All Liars" and/or "Lynch All Lurkers"? I'd like to hear your thoughts on these policy issues.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Aww yeah velinath cranking up the pressure.
BKEXE you'll note that you have yet to convince me to unvote you.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
First of, EY, thank you for responding to my post! I'm glad that you've taken some time out of your busy LoL-playing schedule to read the thread. It's important that we get everyone talking so we can develop information and get an idea of who's who.
I think you make a lot of good points. I take issue with your statements here, though:
On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
I'm fine with a lurker today, but I'm not deciding on which until closer to the deadline.
My accusations are not baseless. In fact, I never even said you were scum-- I just noted you're a lurker, and you need to post. In fact, given that I addressed 4 people, it's literally impossible that I think they're all scum. But making a single vague post is not acceptable.
If you'd accurately read my posts, you'd note that I unvote people who are asleep, and I'm not trying to bandwagon-- i'm trying to get people talking so they can show their true colors. Given how minor my analysis of you was, this is a very strong OMGUS (omg, no u suck) response.
I'm doing my best to help town. If you disagree with my methods, we can have a fruitful discussion. Am I the one throwing out baseless accusations, or is that you? But you must admit, I've gotten lurkers (including you) to stop lurking. Is that not helpful?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy.
Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on.
I successfully made EY and BKEXE return to the thread. I also unvoted the europeans once I realized my (noobish) mistake; they're clearly asleep.
I'll admit I made a mistake in my initial vote, but I quickly realized it and rectified the situation. The fact of the matter is, we have very limited time. We MUST lynch today, according to the rules.
I want to lynch a lurker, but I'd really really rather we had no lurkers. I'll do what it takes to draw people out of lurk mode. I don't care if I step on your precious toes to do it. The mafia will have to hide by talking, not by being silent.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 15:08 Blazinghand wrote:
I'll admit I made a mistake in my initial vote, but I quickly realized it and rectified the situation. The fact of the matter is, we have very limited time. We MUST lynch today, according to the rules.
EBWOP: I mean,we must lynch during this town-day, which lasts for another ~40 hours.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 15:17 xsksc wrote:
I'm not saying you did anything wrong Blazing, you certainly seem motivated, which is good. All I'm asking is that you weigh things out carefully before jumping to conclusions (especially about people who are asleep). We have plenty of time to hunt scum with.
I think that's fair; I'll do my best not to jump to conclusions. Just to clarify, my intial vote reason was this:
On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:
##Vote Electricblack
ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.
So hurry up.
Yes, I didn't notice he was european, but my vote wasn't "oh let's lynch this guy", it was "I want to make this guy post"
It seems to have worked well on BKEXE. I'm comfortable using my vote to pressure lurkers, since, as you said, we have plenty of time to hunt scum with. I can change my vote later if I want, but as it stands, it's my only tool to make potential mafiosos start talking
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 15:18 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:05 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. What's your opinion on BKEXE right now, considering his third post? While I agree that any content (even agreement) is good content at this point, do you consider his posts contributory? I agree with what you said that he needs to add some more content, and I fundamentally disagree with his saying that we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might be new. If they're not contributing, as long as we don't have a very solid lead, then I'm all for getting rid of lurkers. However, we need to be careful about what we define lurking as. If it's just they never post, that's easy. If it's they post, but only a couple lines then that's more of an decision to be made through analysis. I'd rather see a few posts a day that are failry well thought out and longer than a bunch of one liners that don't mean anything. Frankly, no read on anyone at the moment, but I'd like to see more from him.
So, EY, you gonna respond to my post at any point? I still want to know why you called me scum. In case you lost it:
On December 04 2011 15:02 Blazinghand wrote:First of, EY, thank you for responding to my post! I'm glad that you've taken some time out of your busy LoL-playing schedule to read the thread. It's important that we get everyone talking so we can develop information and get an idea of who's who. I think you make a lot of good points. I take issue with your statements here, though: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
I'm fine with a lurker today, but I'm not deciding on which until closer to the deadline.
My accusations are not baseless. In fact, I never even said you were scum-- I just noted you're a lurker, and you need to post. In fact, given that I addressed 4 people, it's literally impossible that I think they're all scum. But making a single vague post is not acceptable. If you'd accurately read my posts, you'd note that I unvote people who are asleep, and I'm not trying to bandwagon-- i'm trying to get people talking so they can show their true colors. Given how minor my analysis of you was, this is a very strong OMGUS (omg, no u suck) response. I'm doing my best to help town. If you disagree with my methods, we can have a fruitful discussion. Am I the one throwing out baseless accusations, or is that you? But you must admit, I've gotten lurkers (including you) to stop lurking. Is that not helpful?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers.
You realize that if both scum and town lurkers don't have to post at all, there's no way to differentiate them at all? Even if I have to "browbeat" them into talking, it's better to have browbeaten info than no info. We don't have much to work off right now, so I'd rather produce some information. So far, 100% of lurkers who aren't asleep that i've targetted have come forward.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
@velinath: that's basically my philosophy. much better summarized than me. Thanks :D
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 15:31 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:22 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 15:18 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:05 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. What's your opinion on BKEXE right now, considering his third post? While I agree that any content (even agreement) is good content at this point, do you consider his posts contributory? I agree with what you said that he needs to add some more content, and I fundamentally disagree with his saying that we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might be new. If they're not contributing, as long as we don't have a very solid lead, then I'm all for getting rid of lurkers. However, we need to be careful about what we define lurking as. If it's just they never post, that's easy. If it's they post, but only a couple lines then that's more of an decision to be made through analysis. I'd rather see a few posts a day that are failry well thought out and longer than a bunch of one liners that don't mean anything. Frankly, no read on anyone at the moment, but I'd like to see more from him. So, EY, you gonna respond to my post at any point? I still want to know why you called me scum. In case you lost it: On December 04 2011 15:02 Blazinghand wrote:First of, EY, thank you for responding to my post! I'm glad that you've taken some time out of your busy LoL-playing schedule to read the thread. It's important that we get everyone talking so we can develop information and get an idea of who's who. I think you make a lot of good points. I take issue with your statements here, though: On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
I'm fine with a lurker today, but I'm not deciding on which until closer to the deadline.
My accusations are not baseless. In fact, I never even said you were scum-- I just noted you're a lurker, and you need to post. In fact, given that I addressed 4 people, it's literally impossible that I think they're all scum. But making a single vague post is not acceptable. If you'd accurately read my posts, you'd note that I unvote people who are asleep, and I'm not trying to bandwagon-- i'm trying to get people talking so they can show their true colors. Given how minor my analysis of you was, this is a very strong OMGUS (omg, no u suck) response. I'm doing my best to help town. If you disagree with my methods, we can have a fruitful discussion. Am I the one throwing out baseless accusations, or is that you? But you must admit, I've gotten lurkers (including you) to stop lurking. Is that not helpful? You took that part out of context. My full post: Show nested quote +Posting in between games of LoL.
So, we're asked our opinion on what we think about LaL and lynching lurkers, I share mine and then get called out for doing nothing but posting fluff? Would you rather we discuss the weather or just /random a lynch for the first day? The reason I talked about common sense is the last game youngmini got a lot of support for being lynched (Palmar mayor killed him) for essentially a misstatement.
Yes, that kind of stuff does need to be pointed out. There's no reason to lynch someone for a misstatement. It is not unwritten or does not go without saying unless we actually agree to it.
As for you're statements about lynching all lurkers unless someone gives you a "DAMN GOOD REASON', well having a scumread is one. Am I good with lynching a lurker today, sure but let's not go talking about how you've got a good scum read on anyone that's posted once.
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
I'm fine with a lurker today, but I'm not deciding on which until closer to the deadline.
I was obviously continuing a thought on how calling out me for posting what you've defined as fluff when it was an opinion on the subject matter being discussed, and one that was at least mildly thought out makes it just as easy for someone to call you out for baseless accusations. Yes, to some extent that's all we have at the moment, but by god if no one wants my opinion don't ask. I was not calling you scum, but pointing out a hypothetical next time I label it more clearly so you can understand.
Ah, my bad. I read: "I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations..."
My contention is that you literally can't say that accurately, because my accusations have not been baseless, so the entire hypothetical is unreasonable. When I read it, I thought that either you CAN say my accusations are baseless, and you have a good point, or you CAN'T, and you need to withdraw that point.
But yes, a hypothetical based on a patently false fact-- that's what that was. Please label these more appropriately in the future so I can understand.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
@EY: I think we got off on the wrong foot here. I would like to not that your first post, fluff or not, WAS your only post in this thread, and that's one of the big reasons I targetted you-- of the people who were confirmed awake (had posted) you had the fewest posts.
I don't think you're mafia-- and the snide remark about LoL was, yes, rather snide, but it was aimed at someone I thought was accusing me of being scum and trying to make excuses not to post. I'd like to retract that statement. I didn't mean to make fu of your playing of LoL.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Also, you'll note I've been nothing but incredibly polite to everyone except for you, who has been incredibly dickish to me. I would assert that I am creating a tense atmosphere attempting to draw out the mafia, but any combativeness here is coming from you, who keeps on trying to escalate our difference of opinion in a flame war.
Prove me wrong about you, EY. Let's be friends.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, EY, you can rest assured that as a single personality I won't dominate the discussions-- you certainly will be a good counter-balance :D
I think we've got about 40 hours left.
Also, I think BKEXE has been poked a fair bit. Time to bust out some new poking power.
##Unvote BroodKingEXE
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=192320&user=192320
His sole post:
On December 04 2011 13:35 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:24 Velinath wrote:
EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter. We cannot have no-lynches in this game due to the voting rules. I am all for lynching anyone who scum slips or is caught in an outright lie, as they're almost sure to be mafia. Lynching lurkers on the other hand, while I think they offer nothing to the town, also provides the town with very little new information and costs us an additional townie through a night-kill. As previously stated in the thread, bored townies are more likely to go inactive/lurk due to not having a very interesting role, whereas a mafia member has two teammates who are relying on him/her to stay active and try to achieve a win.
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 21:58 BByte wrote:\ Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use.
Breadcrumbs should not be used to confirm a claim. A mafia dude can plant crumbs, then choose to use them or not. Here's what breadcrumbs are for:
Situation: Player Alpha is a Detective. He finds out Players Bravo and Charlie are innocent and Player Delta is a mafia member. Each day, he indicates the results of his detective work in his posts, hidden in a way that you wouldn't know to look for them unless you knew he was the detective. He is killed by the mafia during the night, and everyone sees that he was the detective. Players go through his filter and find out his investigative results by following the trail of breadcrumbs.
This is the primary use of breadcrumbs. Used this way, it lets our DT and/or Watcher to convey the results of their investigations from beyond the grave. DT and/or Watcher in this game should begin leaving breadcrumbs after they have investigative results, so that when they die we know what they knew.
Use breadcrumbs to pass along knowledge in case you die, not to support roleclaims.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So, a lot of players have come by and posted while I was gone! We're running out of time- The day ends in 34 hours as of this posting.
Urgent Lurkers:
Hassybaby
You literally haven't posted since signing up.
Moderately Urgent Lurkers:
Adam4167
Still hasn't posted since I've voted for him. I suspect he was asleep or otherwise away from his computer. I still want you to respond to my post, by the way.
BroodKingEXE
A lot of low or no-content posts. Came out of his shell a bit when the pressure was on, but otherwise no contributions.
ElectricBlack
One post since I prodded him, and that's it. Big post though and offered a little bit of content, but mostly just head-nodding.
Grackaroni
Despite the unbelievably awesome name, offered only some initial commentary on liar and lurker lynching. Answered some rules questions. Not sticking his neck out.
To Hassybaby and all the other lurkers: I want you to post and answer the following questions: Who so far has the scummiest play? Who should we lynch today? Who do you trust the most, and gives you "town" reads? Who are you unsure on?
I was worried about Adam, but honestly, Hassybaby is a much bigger problem. He literally hasn't posted. At all.
##Unvote Adam4167
##Vote Hassybaby
If Hassybaby isn't going to contribute, he doesn't belong in this game. If he's been afk or just hasn't gotten to a computer yet, that's fine-- but I'm not gonna unvote him unless he posts.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
[06:58] == Hassybaby [~Hassybaby@host-92-21-9-84.as13285.net] has joined #TLMafia
[06:59] <Hassybaby> i hate traffic...
[06:59] <Hassybaby> hey very1
Hassybaby, either you have an impersonator on the #TLMafia IRC or you're no longer afk. I'd like to see a response from you.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yay~ okay, can't wait to hear from you. Something for all townies to keep in mind:
On December 04 2011 23:11 Radfield wrote:
Hyshes, the gist is that it is far easier to scumhunt if you can first establish your innocence.
1. If you do not establish your innocence, and have to spend your time defending yourself, you have much less time actively searching for scum. In addition, it can be difficult to scum-hunt when everyone is debating your alignment. You become biased.
2. It is far easier to build a case and gain support for your cause if you have already established an air of innocence. Why would I listen to someone I think is probably scum?
3. Getting lynched Day 1 is generally the worst failure of a town-aligned player. All townies should seek to eliminate their name from the short-list of lynches.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 00:26 Hassybaby wrote:Ok, firstly, I want to actually say why I haven't posted since the game started: in all honestly, I didn't even know we were starting tonight. So I basically was out all day, and I come back to see the game's begun and I'm already lurking. Now that i know that the game's started, I will be posting plenty more to share my views. About Lynching all Liras/Lurkers: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:06 Blazinghand wrote:
It's acceptable for not everyone to agree on "lynch all liars"-- as long as a fair majority of us do, Nobody will lie. But lying or not, I think the thing we should focus on here is lynching lurkers. I say this because we NEED to make it so mafia talks. Everyone has to contribute. The reason lurking is considered a "viable strategy" is because the less a mafia guy talks, the less mistakes he makes, and the less chances there are that he'll seriously blunder.
If there were no serious repercussions, a Mafia guy will barely talk at all. This game begins with assymetric information-- Mafia know who's town (but not blue), but each individual townie/blue doesn't know anything but his own alignment. In this case, it's absolutely vital we encourage mafia members to talk so we can flush them out. They won't slip up unless they have the opportunity to do so.
This is the prime reason why lynching lurkers is a good idea. If we all strongly believe in this policy, there will be no lurkers. All the townies will be contributing, and all the mafia members will be torn between contributing AND trying to be unhelpful. It puts a huge amount of pressure on the mafia members. The additional reason for lynching lurkers is that we need all of the help the townspeople can give. It's important also to provide a lively conversation for the Blues (we have 2) to take part in. We have a cop and/or a rolechecker and they can't adequately get their information into the conversation without there being a conversation to begin with.
If it turns out we have a lot of townie lurkers even implementing this policy, we're dead anyways. The idea that we shouldn't lynch lurkers because there might be a lot of townie lurkers is inherently flawed-- if there's 1 townie lurker, it's good to get rid of him anyways, and if there are a lot of townie lurkers we're basically boned.
So, we should Lynch All Lurkers. Anyone who disagrees with me better have a damn good reason why. While I agree wit this idea in theory, you have to remember that this is a special case. For a start, the game is very newbie based, and despite the fact that you ant them to talk, people just don't feel like that they can contribute, even though just stating opinions is better than nothing. On top of this, the game has barely been 12 hours, and started quite suddenly. Going after lurkers this early is just not a good idea because odds are people don't even know the game's started. Later on, I'm all for it. But not Day 1 imo, and especially not less than 24 hours since the start of the game. Still reading!
Ah, yeah, I didn't know the game at first either. That's a fair point, and I don't hold your previous inactivity against you.
However, I think it's exceptionally important to not lurk since this is a newbie game, and the town tends to lose in newbie games. Furthermore (and this is even more important), we have no info on the first day. We have to lynch, but our Detective and/or Watcher haven't had a chance to do any checks yet. At this moment in time, the Mafia hold all the cards and we have no info (yet).
Because we're flying the most blind on the first day, it's on this day that it's most important to get the pot stirring, imo. My vote isn't on you because I want to lynch you-- my vote is on you because I don't want to lynch you. I want you to prove yourself, so my vote can move on to Adam where it belongs. Please help me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
P.S.: It's no rush to read the thread. I'm gonna go grab some breakfast. Take your time and make your analysis accurate. The number one goal is that we prove as many townies as possible innocent today, and put as much pressure as possible on the mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:
As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off.
I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.
You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
Ah, no problem. Hope to see a good post from you in 6 hours. Sleep a little extra if you're sloshed, man, don't be hung over.
Also, you can say what you want about Velinath. He's just another poster to me, and I don't know whether or not he's town. I know he spends a lot of time echoing my statements, but that doesn't make him any more or less town-- agreeing or disagreeing with me doesn't affect my read of your town-ness on its own-- otherwise mafia would hide by agreeing with me.
It's also worth noting that simply posting a lot isn't pro-town-- it's just that a lack of posting is anti-town.
I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target.
You are entitled to your opinion. However, I will keep the pressure on and prevent lurkers from lurking, even if it affects your opinion of my play. Nobody gets a free pass from scrutiny.
The fact of the matter is, no matter where my vote goes, at the end of the day it's worth 1 vote, just like everyone else. Everyone I've voted for has come out and talked and caused me to change targets. Compare: amount of info we had before I started voting for people and amount of info we've received because people come out and defend themselves.
I focus on targets who literally haven't posted, and once they become active, I move on. Do you have a better suggestion? If you can think of a more pro-town way for me to act, go ahead... but if your position is "well, I think blazinghand is calling a lot of attention to himself and to quiet people, and making sure everyone gets scrutiny rather than just one person, therefore he is anti-town"....
Well, I don't know what to say to that.
Am I putting words in your mouth? yes, because you haven't done a great job of doing so.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 01:49 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 00:32 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 00:26 Hassybaby wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, firstly, I want to actually say why I haven't posted since the game started: in all honestly, I didn't even know we were starting tonight. So I basically was out all day, and I come back to see the game's begun and I'm already lurking. Now that i know that the game's started, I will be posting plenty more to share my views. About Lynching all Liras/Lurkers: On December 04 2011 13:06 Blazinghand wrote:
It's acceptable for not everyone to agree on "lynch all liars"-- as long as a fair majority of us do, Nobody will lie. But lying or not, I think the thing we should focus on here is lynching lurkers. I say this because we NEED to make it so mafia talks. Everyone has to contribute. The reason lurking is considered a "viable strategy" is because the less a mafia guy talks, the less mistakes he makes, and the less chances there are that he'll seriously blunder.
If there were no serious repercussions, a Mafia guy will barely talk at all. This game begins with assymetric information-- Mafia know who's town (but not blue), but each individual townie/blue doesn't know anything but his own alignment. In this case, it's absolutely vital we encourage mafia members to talk so we can flush them out. They won't slip up unless they have the opportunity to do so.
This is the prime reason why lynching lurkers is a good idea. If we all strongly believe in this policy, there will be no lurkers. All the townies will be contributing, and all the mafia members will be torn between contributing AND trying to be unhelpful. It puts a huge amount of pressure on the mafia members. The additional reason for lynching lurkers is that we need all of the help the townspeople can give. It's important also to provide a lively conversation for the Blues (we have 2) to take part in. We have a cop and/or a rolechecker and they can't adequately get their information into the conversation without there being a conversation to begin with.
If it turns out we have a lot of townie lurkers even implementing this policy, we're dead anyways. The idea that we shouldn't lynch lurkers because there might be a lot of townie lurkers is inherently flawed-- if there's 1 townie lurker, it's good to get rid of him anyways, and if there are a lot of townie lurkers we're basically boned.
So, we should Lynch All Lurkers. Anyone who disagrees with me better have a damn good reason why. While I agree wit this idea in theory, you have to remember that this is a special case. For a start, the game is very newbie based, and despite the fact that you ant them to talk, people just don't feel like that they can contribute, even though just stating opinions is better than nothing. On top of this, the game has barely been 12 hours, and started quite suddenly. Going after lurkers this early is just not a good idea because odds are people don't even know the game's started. Later on, I'm all for it. But not Day 1 imo, and especially not less than 24 hours since the start of the game. Still reading! Ah, yeah, I didn't know the game at first either. That's a fair point, and I don't hold your previous inactivity against you. However, I think it's exceptionally important to not lurk since this is a newbie game, and the town tends to lose in newbie games. Furthermore (and this is even more important), we have no info on the first day. We have to lynch, but our Detective and/or Watcher haven't had a chance to do any checks yet. At this moment in time, the Mafia hold all the cards and we have no info (yet). Because we're flying the most blind on the first day, it's on this day that it's most important to get the pot stirring, imo. My vote isn't on you because I want to lynch you-- my vote is on you because I don't want to lynch you. I want you to prove yourself, so my vote can move on to Adam where it belongs. Please help me. Agreed. Lurking in a game this small has to be discouraged, especially considering you won't lean anything through it. However, the pot should be stirred through responses of policies, not open call outs. You have an interesting way of getting people to participate. It may be working, but it really shouldn't be encouraged.There is no sense of cohesion if you start off by accusing people. As for cases, I'll go back through everyone's filter one by one, and see if i spot anything. initial reads have not made me feel like there's a definitive scum read, or a totally strong one yet, but I may have easily missed something.
It's always good to have more analysis. Thanks for the help, and I can't wait to hear your insights.
However, I'd like to defend my methods. You say there's no sense of cohesion if I start off by accusing people. You'll note, however, that I never explicitly state that someone is scum. I haven't stated any reads yet because I dont' have any.
In fact, I've been doing the opposite-- I'm concerned because there's so little content I literally am not able to form reads. I explicitly state in the message of mine you quote that I'm not voting you because I think you're scum-- i'm voting you because I want you not to be.
I'm just trying to flush out lurkers. Some criticize me because my votes are "weak" and i'm flinging them around. Some criticize me because of my strong accusations.
Either criticism has some validity. But I'm not convinced yet that I should change my ways. So far I have forced some activity out of a very quiet town. As people start posting and lurk no more, I may not need to be as aggressive going forwards. However, I refuse to back down. There will be no silence as long as I have a say in things.
We need all the information we can get, so I will go and get it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 02:43 Velinath wrote:Ugh, just woke back up. Hi to all the posters who have popped in! Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 23:23 Tunkeg wrote:On December 04 2011 15:59 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:56 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 15:52 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:25 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:
[quote]
I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating.
If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer.
Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers. I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post. I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for. As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling. As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze. I completely agree here. We have voices of moderation in this town, obviously - I don't think it'll be easy to get incorrect bandwagons started given that we have some very vocal posters that are not necessarily willing to lynch on a whim (you being one of them). While one person can make decisions through personality (Palmar in 46 springs to mind), I feel like we've got a pretty vocal group that is able to balance each other out leading the town right now. If someone new steps in and votes blindly, I don't think it's out of line to ask them to justify their vote - the grou pthat we have right now will probably do a good job of discouraging sheeping, from what I've seen so far. Agreed on the above. However I want you guys to be very careful not to be too trusting. Do not assume the mafia will just be the lurkers posting 1 liners. It wouldn't suprise me if we have a scum member in this "voices of moderation" group, as you call it. All I'm saying is don't trust anyone, and use your heads. Oh, absolutely. While I think that anyone who is willing to stick their neck out and be vocal about a given player is less likely to be mafia (as mafia has no interest in contributing to constructive discussion), I definitely agree that leading the town down an incorrect path is certainly a viable strategy and one that the mafia may be employing here. That said, there's nothing in the posts from any of our active posters so far that screams "scum" to me - and so far our policy decisions are furthering a town agenda, IMO. You are the number one poster quantitywise in this thread, you are also one of those who have voted early. You are also perhaps the one I consider to be most likely (as of now) to get a bandwagon started on someone (either as number one voter or two). Based on that, my question is: Are you trying to give yourself an alibi with the statement above? No. I feel like you missed my intent with wording here. I was referring to the people that would defend other people against bandwagons (hence the discussion about voices of moderation that you quoted). I guess it's kinda WIFOM, but I feel like it's less likely for scum to vocally defend other scum when a bandwagon gets started, since they would tend to be under scrutiny if the lynch goes through.
The tactic you're referring to is also known as "Bussing" (as in, to throw your ally under a bus). http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bussing
However, It's probably not worth it for mafia to bus on the first day-- only if they're backed into a weird spot.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets.
Although I don't understand how Adam thinks I'm anti-town, disagreeing with me doesn't automatically make him anti-town. What makes him anti-town is the lack of posting, which I hope he will rectify.
Also, if scum want to go after me, there's a much easier way than trying to get me lynched 
On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:
Blazinghand-
Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary
Don't trust me. Trust my analysis, and my actions. If I do stuff that's bad, say so. If I do stuff that's good, say so. Every statement I make should be evaluated individually for accuracy, as with everyone else. I'm a pro town player, and I know I'm town, but there's no way for you to know that.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, Hassybaby has finally gone from no posts to "having posts" so I can, at last, change my vote to a more useful target.
Adam4167, in a game full of unimpressive players you have truly failed to impress. I voted you and your immediate response was a thinly-veiled OMGUS. If you're mafia, I'm going to take this chance to get rid of you. If you're a townie, you're so utterly useless I couldn't imagine you contributing.
You've had your 6 hours. Hell, you've had your SEVEN hours, because I'm a nice guy. But the clock's ticking, and I don't have time for some last minute voting BS.
Try to redeem yourself. I'll be checking in constantly from now until the voting deadline, but I doubt we'll find someone scummier and/or less useful than you in that time.
It's really a shame; there are other people who are kinda suspicious, but you're just so atrociously bad that I can't afford to stay my hand any longer.
##Unvote Hassybaby
##Vote Adam4167
Come at me bro.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Adam's two posts:
On December 04 2011 13:35 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:24 Velinath wrote:
EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter. We cannot have no-lynches in this game due to the voting rules. I am all for lynching anyone who scum slips or is caught in an outright lie, as they're almost sure to be mafia. Lynching lurkers on the other hand, while I think they offer nothing to the town, also provides the town with very little new information and costs us an additional townie through a night-kill. As previously stated in the thread, bored townies are more likely to go inactive/lurk due to not having a very interesting role, whereas a mafia member has two teammates who are relying on him/her to stay active and try to achieve a win.
Against lurker lynching. Bad argument for it, but whatever. The purpose of lurker lynching is to prevent lurking.
On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 21:39 Tunkeg wrote:
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game? If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
Step 1) proclaims self to be bad, inactive townie-- sounds like scum trying to hide.
Step 2) mildly accuse me and velinath of being town. not inherently a bad idea, but unsupported and trying to divert attention from himself.
Step 3) does not actually respond to any of my questions, then says that I've "caught his attention"
Step 4) never return to thread.
That's my analysis. I see no meaningful contributions, and a lot of misdirection, a lie, and unhelpfulness.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
P.S.: I'd like to make a bigger case against this guy but he literally has two posts...
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Guys, I'd like everyone to vote, today. It's okay if you change your vote later. But I want everyone to vote on whoever their best read is asap. Votes are what make people accountable to motives and facts. Lay down your vote and justify it. It's okay if you're not 100% sure; you can always change your vote. The longer we wait to start doing this, the more advantage the mafia has in producing last-minute confusion.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Thanks for the voting, BByte and Grack. I can't wait to leap into some fun discussions about this. Still waiting on votes from Jay and Hassy.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
As of this post, there is 1 day and 30 minutes remaining. If we want to have enough time for everyone across the timezones to make their votes and see others and respond, we need to start voting now. More votes plz
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
BKEXE: You're making an argument referred to as "Wine In Front of Me", a reference to the princess bride.
Obviously your mistakes absolve you from being mafia, since you wouldn't make mistakes if you were mafia, right? Take a moment to imagine how you would view someone else making this argument, and you'll realize that, even if it's true, it's not very persuasive. At all.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 09:38 BroodKingEXE wrote:
That was dumb I totally forgot that the vote was on the 6th.
There are 24 hours and 20 minutes left until the deadline. Vote now for your chief scumread, and change your vote later if you change your mind. I want to know who you're voting for.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:28 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hassy if you need evidence read this: On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:39 Tunkeg wrote:
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game? If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. This is the main reason I want to vote for adam, when I first read this I realized that BH had only made four votes. The evidence he includes to back his statement is wrong, so that means that the statement although long as hastily thought out, not paying attention to what is going on, and therefore contributing as a towns member 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. This is also a bogus statement. He says that there are no major players in the game when he points out above that BH voted for half the players. To me that is a major move in itself. If he had read the forum at all he would have seen that BH has gotten the majority of players, including myself, to speak Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =). Thanks, that's enough justification for me. I appreciate the explanation, and what jaybrundage said goes right along with that. ##Unvote: BroodKingEXE
If your'e unvoting BKEXE, who are you voting for?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning.
No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain.
Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless.
##Vote ElectricBlack
Vote or die.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:46 Grackaroni wrote:
Why is not voting anti-town?
Because we need to discuss thigns and we have less than a day left. AND , from his point of view, he thinks Hassybaby is mafia, and wants to vote for him... but won't. IF he has good evidence, I want it now. Otherwise, this sounds exactly like scum trying to throw away a vote. He's actively subverting us getting people's votes out in the open. He is anti-town.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for.
He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it.
Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Let's take look at the possibilities here:
EB and Adam both scum: EB is trying to avoid voting for Adam
EB Scum and Adam Town: EB is trying to delay voting and trying to add uncertainty to the vote to create more noise and make it more difficult to see who's being helpful and who's not during this vote, interfering in town cohesion.
EB Town: EB is a terrible townie who, while he may not have time to share his information, apparently has time to vaguely hint at it, and while he claims to feel comfortable making a vote, actually isn't so.
I think EB is scum or an unrealistically, unbelievably bad townie, and we'll be better off without him.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it.
On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night.
Ladies and gentlemen, case closed. EB's just trying to spite me? Trying to spite THE TOWN? We need him out. He's worse than a lurker.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Like, even if he feels some personal animosity for me, he's actively refusing to even pretend to contribute. If he can't put the town ahead of some minor personal thing (something that other townies like EY and myself have been able to do) he's either mafia or an anti-town townie. I'm gonna go through his filter and see if I can find anything at all useful that he's said. This shouldn't take too long.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
The case for ElectricBlack
On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.So hurry up. What kind of a bullshit vote is this. If you're gonna attack me for not posting, do it in a way that actually has even a slight chance of putting any kind of fear into me. If you explicitly state your pressure targets can get rid of your votes easily, then there is no pressure, and thus no dire need to respond to the situation. Next time you pressure me or anyone else, convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people actually respond in the way you want them up. Don't include a get out of jail free card in your post. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy.
Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. Why not? Despite his methods being somewhat flawed, he's doing a helluvalot better job than the rest of town in creating discussion. Only problem with him is that he's not convincing enough in his voting spree. If I was scum I'd actually feel pretty safe ignoring him. However, it seems likely he is town, unless he has a really good scumcoach, because I'm not sure scum would draw all this attention to themselves right out of the gates.
Some harsh criticism for my methods, and this is what he says: "convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people resopnd in the way you want them"
(note: I'd already unvoted him at the time of his post On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:
##Unvote ElectricBlack
So, he says that i'm doing a good job, but that my method is ineffective. He then contributes nothing else to the thread until this gem...
On December 05 2011 10:16 ElectricBlack wrote:
Lurking is not the same thing as simply being unavailable, which is what has been stopping me from posting today.
I'm catching up with the thread at the moment. I'm going to read extensively up on the current lynch targets and see if I agree with any of them.
Equivocation. Nothing useful here.
And now for his famous non-vote:
On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning.
Why no explanation? okay, it's late. Lateness happens. But not time for a vote? why the stalling? Why not lay down a vote and put your money where your mouth is? Why delay, when we have many people in different time zones? We already have enough trouble coordinating as it is.,,
So, you know what? I do what he told me would get results. I threaten him with death, as HE CLAIMED is the best way to convince people...
On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it.
And apparently, his method of convincing doesn't work-- on himself. And when someone asks politely?
On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night.
This is clearly stalling, refusing to even lay down a vote, but willing to aggressively lead us along. This is anti-town. He is inconsistent with himself about what he thinks I should do, and what he does.
He's either scum or a terrible player. Vote ElectricBlack and our town will be better.
I am sure of this.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hey BH what is up with this? Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well. You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information?
What? how could I possibly know he wasn't going to vote before he refused to vote? >.>
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam
Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:33 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially. Yeah that's why it's such a hard decision between them. Right now I feel like Adam is more likely to flip scum and that EB will flip shitty townie.
It's possible EB is a fool and not a knave; but if he is a fool he's enough of one to appear a knave, and flagrantly so.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:52 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:47 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 11:33 Grackaroni wrote:On December 05 2011 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially. Yeah that's why it's such a hard decision between them. Right now I feel like Adam is more likely to flip scum and that EB will flip shitty townie. It's possible EB is a fool and not a knave; but if he is a fool he's enough of one to appear a knave, and flagrantly so. It seems like a pretty stupid strategy for a scum player to behave like he did. His attitude alone makes people want to vote for him. That said If Adam makes some solid analysis I will switch my vote.
That's a fair point; it's on Adam to exonerate himself. That being said, watch out for arguments like "there's no way he's mafia because if he is, he's pretty stupid"... because that's a circular argument and can lead to weird places. Remember, our initial read here is that whether this guy is town OR scum, he's bad either way, right? I'm not sure it's inherently less believable that he's bad scum than that he's bad town, except of course that there are more town than scum players.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:58 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:52 Grackaroni wrote:On December 05 2011 11:47 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 11:33 Grackaroni wrote:On December 05 2011 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially. Yeah that's why it's such a hard decision between them. Right now I feel like Adam is more likely to flip scum and that EB will flip shitty townie. It's possible EB is a fool and not a knave; but if he is a fool he's enough of one to appear a knave, and flagrantly so. It seems like a pretty stupid strategy for a scum player to behave like he did. His attitude alone makes people want to vote for him. That said If Adam makes some solid analysis I will switch my vote. That's a fair point; it's on Adam to exonerate himself. That being said, watch out for arguments like "there's no way he's mafia because if he is, he's pretty stupid"... because that's a circular argument and can lead to weird places. Remember, our initial read here is that whether this guy is town OR scum, he's bad either way, right? I'm not sure it's inherently less believable that he's bad scum than that he's bad town, except of course that there are more town than scum players.
tl;dr: it's just as dumb for a town player to behave as he did as a scum player, so I'm not sure that argument fully applies. Still waiting on adam.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Oh yes, definitely-- people make mistakes. Hell, I've made plenty of mistakes. It's my first time as well. I'll do my best to bear this in mind going forwards. However, for now, I think I'll keep my vote on EB. He's giving the strongest scum read atm. If the situation changes, so too will my vote.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Good morning!
@EB: I'd like to apologize for my aggressive play towards you. I will not apologize for voting you when you specifically said you were trying to spite the town. That being said, you have come forwards with some good reasons, and I don't think you'd be a good lynch for today any more.
We have 8 hours left before lynch time.
Talk to your coaches. Have the help you with your reads and strategy. There isn't much time left. Look through filters and make a decision.
Lastly, when we vote, try not to bandwagon per se, but the winner should win with a fair number of the votes, or the mafia will have an undue influence on the outcome.
I'm currently doing analysis. I don't yet know who to vote for, but as soon as I know, I'll vote and write why. This should take probably 20-30 minutes.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:46 xsksc wrote:
xtfftc and blazing, I'd like your thoughts on Tunkeg if you have a chance soon, thanks.
Tunkeg may be scum. But I think he's just a townie who was looking to pick at fight with xskxc
Tunkeg Norway. December 05 2011 00:02. Posts 42
xsksc Scum. If I had to pick three scums right now xsksc would be my third pick, I'd say more based on a hunch and not so much reasoning. It is his way of gaining trust, while not really providing any pressure to anyone or other pro town activities.
This means he thinks xskxc is third-most-likely to be scum, behind HB and JB in his post. When xskxc becomes more aggressive the next day, Tunkeg gets into a protracted and unhelpful fight with him.
1. It is his change in attitude that bothers me. He isn't posting in the same matter as yesterday. I get scum vibes from it.
2. He was going for the easy targets at the time, and only them. He mentioned me suspicious, and not at all going for me. Just a slight discrediting move. In a "Look out this guy is suspicious, don't listen to much to what he says"- kind of way.
3. This part is where I think I am most understood, I mean I am not contradicting myself. Can't a player both be educatiing others and scum? In this post I wrote abit about why I dont think I am contradicting my self:
Overall it does seem that xskxc has become more aggressive, but sticking your neck out isn't a scum move. Also, xskxc hasn't been bandwagoning, and has been generally getting all up in people's business. Dangerous move for a mafia guy.
xsksc, don't vote Tunkeg just because he's a moron. from your point of view, just because he's wrong about you doesn't make him scum.
Alright guys, So, I have a couple of minor scum reads: Adam4167, BKEXE, and JB. These are all very mild-- I'm not sure enough to cast votes at this moment on these guys, but if it came down to it, I'd vote for one of them.
However, I want to invoke Lynch All Lurkers on BByte. He is lurking and acting scummy.
Bbyte has made literally no major contributions. He briefly talked about policy, then asked a few random questions, voted Velinath
On December 05 2011 09:20 BByte wrote:My strongest scum read so far is Velinath. He has been active (very much so actually), but what has he contributed? Some policy discussion, a bit of finger pointing (mostly to spark activity), some fluff. Mostly he has been following other people's ideas, not making his own calls. All of this is something scum could easily do with very little risk. Then there are a couple of posts of light analysis. His "reads post" sums it up best: + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. BroodKingEXE: Empty post. Worries me.Feels scummy but could be a noob. Amend: Six posts that don't sit right with me, but again, could be new player. xkskc: Leaning town for now. Started our policy discussion. Discussion is good. While he disagrees with BH's methods, I clearly feel like he's playing a townie game right now. Different methodolgy, same goal. To note, he pointed out that there may be mafia in the group leadership., which should be something to keep in mind. Question is whether it's sowing suspicion or genuine pro-town, and I haven't figured that out yet. xtfftc: Null read. He argued against LAL and LALurkers, and I don't wanna go with that. Let's look again once he posts again. (Amend: Looked through his filter to update this post, and I really liked his post here. Still a null read, but this feels positive to me.) ey215: Pointed out some good things. He sees Blazinghand's methods as creating tension within the town, and that's fine - he's entitled to opinion. Like xkskc, he disagrees with methods but seems to be working towards the same goal. Their discussion, while heated, really brought out to me that they both seem very town-aligned, and willing to take positions and defend them. EB: Makes good points. At this point I'm leaning town, simply because he's pro-discussion this early. That said I'd love to see more posts here. Tunkeg: Posted his reads, and is encouraging discussion. I think this is a good thing, and might peg him as one of the influential voices in the town soon. Largely a null read, but I'm starting to lean town. BByte: I'm not totally impressed yet. One post about breadcrumbs (which is more about the game in general than a content post) and one post about a couple of the players. That post was good, and I agree that we shouldn't be intimidated by one person, but I'd like to see more. jaybrundage: Neutral for now, but a lack of content disturbs me. We've still got like 30 hours though. Adam4167: Two posts, neither of which hugely impress me. I liked how he went through and stated a clear opinion on BH's play. While I disagree with his opinion, I think that the way he put things is pro-town in that post. I'd love to see more content here, but so far looks pretty good. Hassybaby: Disagrees with early targets, and I can see why. I think he is overly defensive towards Tunkeg - not an OMGUS vote, but definitely that kind of idea. Not sure what to think, but this early just a null read. Grackaroni: Posted reads, but before that there's a bunch of policy posts. Not that I haven't made a ton of policy posts too, but I'll wait for more content. Null read. How does half town, half null reads with a couple of unsures thrown in help the town in any way? Even those unsure reads are off people who have been previously called out by others. Everything seems very non-committal. #Vote Velinath
and hasn't been seen in some time. He did drop in recently to make this post:
On December 05 2011 15:33 BByte wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:24 Velinath wrote:
Why should I be lynched? What don't you like about the EB or Adam4167 cases, if anything? He said he'd post thoughts on the lynch discussion but I haven't heard anything yet (maybe a time zone thing, but we've talked a lot since his last post and he's been silent). Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:
Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much
The cases on Adam4167 and ElectricBlack look good now. However, both of them have promised to post their analysis and I'd expect that to change the situation. ElectricBlack's reaction seemed a bit rash but not necessarily scummy to me.
As you can see, he's got a vote on velinath, and hasn't made a serious argument. Velinath's arguments on his scumlist might have been vague, but since then, velinath has made a liberal outpouring of posts and BByte remains silent. I don't know who's mafia, but I know we need more commitment than that out of our townies, and BByte's soft case and small vote count make it seem like he's hiding something.
##Vote BByte
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
There's 6 hours left; the time to be active has come and gone. BByte has my vote because I want to lynch him.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
It's fine to vote for a different target than me. I'd rather make a scum lynch than a policy lynch, and I think most people would. Although I'm not convinced, try to convince others and see if we can't get some good discussion going in these final hours.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
5 hours, 30 minutes remaining. I'm grabbing lunch.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:28 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good. ..................................... Town doesn't lynch people for being bad. Town lynches people for being mafia. It's not like we get free lynches for the useless and the lurkers; it's the mafia who managed to distract town well enough and they're getting a free kill tonight as a reward.
That's a fair point. On the other hand, BByte is so silent there's no way we'd ever know he's Mafia. He's not like an "omg I went afk for several days" lurker, he's a "I make like 3-4 no-content posts, spread out over the course of the day, and am trying to look active but really am not" lurker. I see two options here:
1) BByte is a lurking mafia guy
2) BByte is just a somewhat inneffective townie
Now, granted, (2) is a possibility. And honestly I'd rather lynch a mafia guy than a non-mafia guy. But currently, I think BByte the lurker is more likely to be mafia than any of my existing reads. If you can convince me otherwise, then I'll vote for those guys. That being said, my vote stands. I'm trying to make the best out of a no/low information situation here.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
It takes like 15 minutes for the bot to register it. Don't worry, it'll happen.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:03 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:34 Blazinghand wrote:On December 06 2011 07:28 xtfftc wrote:On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good. ..................................... Town doesn't lynch people for being bad. Town lynches people for being mafia. It's not like we get free lynches for the useless and the lurkers; it's the mafia who managed to distract town well enough and they're getting a free kill tonight as a reward. That's a fair point. On the other hand, BByte is so silent there's no way we'd ever know he's Mafia. He's not like an "omg I went afk for several days" lurker, he's a "I make like 3-4 no-content posts, spread out over the course of the day, and am trying to look active but really am not" lurker. I see two options here: 1) BByte is a lurking mafia guy 2) BByte is just a somewhat inneffective townie Now, granted, (2) is a possibility. And honestly I'd rather lynch a mafia guy than a non-mafia guy. But currently, I think BByte the lurker is more likely to be mafia than any of my existing reads. If you can convince me otherwise, then I'll vote for those guys. That being said, my vote stands. I'm trying to make the best out of a no/low information situation here. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:35 Velinath wrote:On December 06 2011 07:28 xtfftc wrote:On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good. ..................................... Town doesn't lynch people for being bad. Town lynches people for being mafia. It's not like we get free lynches for the useless and the lurkers; it's the mafia who managed to distract town well enough and they're getting a free kill tonight as a reward. I guess the question is whether or not you think the town can reach a clear consensus on the candidates we've been debating as scum today. If we can't - and I don't think we can - it's best to have a clear majority on a candidate to, as you said, prevent any late-night surprises. I agree, which is why I voted for Bbyte already... It's frustrating though. Even if he flips town, it'll be a lucky lynch. :/
Er, you mean, even if he flips Scum? yeah, I mean this is a kinda-policy-kinda-scumread lynch. In a better world, Bbyte would have posted a bunch and we wouldn't be lynching based on lurking.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me.
I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum. If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads.
That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead.
Here's my analysis.
The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummy
On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it?
Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new.
On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information.
Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context.
On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol
Filler post. ._.
On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town
Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge.
On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful.
Worthless comment.
On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked
Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB.
On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread
Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming.
On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho.
Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME.
Hedges about me.
Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post.
On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything
Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc.
On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far.
Defending BKEXE
On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me
Hedging on EB.
On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit.
Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end.
So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy"
Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X.
However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread:
On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide
So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.
Bad arguments. No value.
On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him.
More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man.
On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post
If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it.
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Discuss nothing this night. If you have something to post, write it up and post it 24 hours from now-- do not give the mafia any additional material to work with until after they've made their decision. If you think you're about to die and have some grand revelation to make, make it 1 minute before the night ends so the mafia can't base their kill off it.
See you guys in 24 hours.
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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On December 06 2011 10:09 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. And I think you're the last scum That's it, jaybrundage, xtf, hassy. Game solved. Next one?
Not that I disagree; but I'd like to hear your case re: JB is scum. My read on him atm is weak.
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Blazinghand
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On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this.
On December 06 2011 10:40 jaybrundage wrote:
Fuck
Also, if you're scum, this is some seriously sub-par acting. And if your town, this is unuseful posting. And more hedging.
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Blazinghand
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Now that I think about it, I don't think jb is scum. Originally, I thought his actions were a little scummy because of the hedging, but it's not too unreasonable to do that. To be fair, I just said he sounded a little scummy.
Really though I think I need a bit more time to analyze. Eventually we'll find out the results of night actions, to. Actually, this will be a big boon for us, since our dt and/or watcher will have info. Later in the game the town has more info. Lacking any additional info, therefore, I withdraw my scumread on jb. You never know what'll happen tonight, though, so let's wait for night actions to complete.
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Blazinghand
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EB and I are of different opinions on this. You can make your own decision. Honestly, if you post like an hour or two before the deadline you're probably fairly safe, just because the mafia members probably all won't be awake (but who knows?) or will have already phoned in their kill, and are just waiting for the day post. If it's going to be difficult for you to be awake at the deadline, though, just post it when you can.
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Blazinghand
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The odds of anyone posting something that will change the mafia decision is pretty low, btw-- but I'd just like them to have as little information as possible during the night.
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Blazinghand
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You wanna go? Ok, lets go.
On December 07 2011 03:01 xtfftc wrote:
Just came back from work. Do you guys reckon I should post my new analysis now or closer to the deadline? Usually we would like to keep the discussion going but considering that pretty much everyone else is happy to lurk today, I wonder whether I should post close to the deadline to make it harder for the mafia to switch if they want to.
On December 07 2011 03:22 xtfftc wrote:
I wasn't asking about discussing things during the night; this is something town should always do. The mafia love keeping quiet during the night because there's much less pressure to vote after the lynch - but if we engage in a discussion, they would be forced to do so. Just like my other views about policies and general town play, you can confirm my consistency on the issue by checking xlvii where I was town.. And I recall that I had a huge argument with vader about it, and he rolled mafia. He used the same argument you're using: that they will have less information this way, and it's totally wrong: it's not like the information they have from Day 1 suddenly becomes invalid. You said it earlier: mafia have more information than us at the moment, so we should try to increase the amount of information we have by all means at the moment. That's some red points for you, BH.
Are you trying to increase the info now or later?
Also, why are the red points red points now but weren't red points 20 minutes ago? The thing I've posted in the meantime is:
On December 07 2011 03:07 Blazinghand wrote:
EB and I are of different opinions on this. You can make your own decision. Honestly, if you post like an hour or two before the deadline you're probably fairly safe, just because the mafia members probably all won't be awake (but who knows?) or will have already phoned in their kill, and are just waiting for the day post. If it's going to be difficult for you to be awake at the deadline, though, just post it when you can.
In this, I don't actually say you shouldn't post at night. I say the same thing you're saying: post closer to the deadline. So, I move closer to your position, and that makes me Red?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Basically, why come at me now for my position when, relative to you, my position has become closer? If anything, I moved form an unfavorable position (thinking we shouldn't post at night) to a favorable position (our night posts should be closer to the deadline). If it was reasonable to call me out for this, it became LESS reasonable in the 20 minutes between your two posts.
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Blazinghand
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UHN YEAH THATS RIGHT WHATCHA GONNA SAY NOW MR INCONSISTENT
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Blazinghand
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Yeah EB's random accusation of JB is kind of weird, tbh. He doesn't offer any analysis and just throws it out there. This is fairly unhelpful, and makes me somewhat suspicious of him. On the other hand, he says we should talk at night so I guess that's Green points amirite
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
I 100% echo this sentiment. Anyone who gets into the habit of following anyone blindly in this game will lose horribly. Take my analysis on a case-by-case basis. Anything anybody says that is unsupported deserves to be shat on.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
Please provide qutoes of me doing this-- I don't recall telling people to vote for Adam... But I guess it's possible... This is the quote in which I vote for him
On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:Well, EY, you can rest assured that as a single personality I won't dominate the discussions-- you certainly will be a good counter-balance :D I think we've got about 40 hours left.
Also, I think BKEXE has been poked a fair bit. Time to bust out some new poking power. ##Unvote BroodKingEXEAdam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=192320&user=192320His sole post: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:35 Adam4167 wrote:On December 04 2011 13:24 Velinath wrote:
EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter. We cannot have no-lynches in this game due to the voting rules. I am all for lynching anyone who scum slips or is caught in an outright lie, as they're almost sure to be mafia. Lynching lurkers on the other hand, while I think they offer nothing to the town, also provides the town with very little new information and costs us an additional townie through a night-kill. As previously stated in the thread, bored townies are more likely to go inactive/lurk due to not having a very interesting role, whereas a mafia member has two teammates who are relying on him/her to stay active and try to achieve a win. Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you. ##Vote Adam4167I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough. Hurry up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
oh nvm found it:
On December 05 2011 08:39 Blazinghand wrote:
Well, Hassybaby has finally gone from no posts to "having posts" so I can, at last, change my vote to a more useful target.
Adam4167, in a game full of unimpressive players you have truly failed to impress. I voted you and your immediate response was a thinly-veiled OMGUS. If you're mafia, I'm going to take this chance to get rid of you. If you're a townie, you're so utterly useless I couldn't imagine you contributing.
You've had your 6 hours. Hell, you've had your SEVEN hours, because I'm a nice guy. But the clock's ticking, and I don't have time for some last minute voting BS.
Try to redeem yourself. I'll be checking in constantly from now until the voting deadline, but I doubt we'll find someone scummier and/or less useful than you in that time.
It's really a shame; there are other people who are kinda suspicious, but you're just so atrociously bad that I can't afford to stay my hand any longer.
##Unvote Hassybaby
##Vote Adam4167
Come at me bro.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 03:47 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +Also, why are the red points red points now but weren't red points 20 minutes ago? Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Basically, why come at me now for my position when, relative to you, my position has become closer? If anything, I moved form an unfavorable position (thinking we shouldn't post at night) to a favorable position (our night posts should be closer to the deadline). If it was reasonable to call me out for this, it became LESS reasonable in the 20 minutes between your two posts. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:33 Blazinghand wrote:
UHN YEAH THATS RIGHT WHATCHA GONNA SAY NOW MR INCONSISTENT My first post wasn't directed at you but at everyone and in my second post I focused on your position on the issue and awared you your red points. I would like you to re-read my posts carefully and inform me if you still see any inconsistency. See, you've bolded the wrong part of my post. It shouldn't be Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:01 xtfftc wrote:
Just came back from work. Do you guys reckon I should post my new analysis now or closer to the deadline? Usually we would like to keep the discussion going but considering that pretty much everyone else is happy to lurk today, I wonder whether I should post close to the deadline to make it harder for the mafia to switch if they want to. Instead, it should be Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:01 xtfftc wrote:
Just came back from work. Do you guys reckon I should post my new analysis now or closer to the deadline? Usually we would like to keep the discussion going but considering that pretty much everyone else is happy to lurk today, I wonder whether I should post close to the deadline to make it harder for the mafia to switch if they want to.
You still haven't answered my question. Decent dodge though. Why didn't I earn red points previously? Why wait to call me out until my position became more moderate?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Everyone should be aggressive about posting an analyzing. You don't know whether it's your last night alive. Tonight the mafia may have already made their decision, but if we can get the same info without exposing ourselves more by delaying an analysis post another hour, is that really a bad idea? One thought would be that we need as much information as possible, but I'm not saying we shouldn't have the info, just that a minor delay is good. Five hours is what we're talking about here.
So basically I think this is a well-supported opinion and should not earn "red points" in anyone's book. Although you may disagree, I don't think that rules it out. V7 was mafia that game, but that doesn't make all his ideas inherently red. Even if he was mafia, he might have posted that because it's a good town idea and he wanted to appear town. Don't automatically judge me for it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I WOULD like to see an analysis post from EB, though.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 03:59 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 03:47 xtfftc wrote:Also, why are the red points red points now but weren't red points 20 minutes ago? On December 07 2011 03:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Basically, why come at me now for my position when, relative to you, my position has become closer? If anything, I moved form an unfavorable position (thinking we shouldn't post at night) to a favorable position (our night posts should be closer to the deadline). If it was reasonable to call me out for this, it became LESS reasonable in the 20 minutes between your two posts. On December 07 2011 03:33 Blazinghand wrote:
UHN YEAH THATS RIGHT WHATCHA GONNA SAY NOW MR INCONSISTENT My first post wasn't directed at you but at everyone and in my second post I focused on your position on the issue and awared you your red points. I would like you to re-read my posts carefully and inform me if you still see any inconsistency. See, you've bolded the wrong part of my post. It shouldn't be On December 07 2011 03:01 xtfftc wrote:
Just came back from work. Do you guys reckon I should post my new analysis now or closer to the deadline? Usually we would like to keep the discussion going but considering that pretty much everyone else is happy to lurk today, I wonder whether I should post close to the deadline to make it harder for the mafia to switch if they want to. Instead, it should be On December 07 2011 03:01 xtfftc wrote:
Just came back from work. Do you guys reckon I should post my new analysis now or closer to the deadline? Usually we would like to keep the discussion going but considering that pretty much everyone else is happy to lurk today, I wonder whether I should post close to the deadline to make it harder for the mafia to switch if they want to. You still haven't answered my question. Decent dodge though. Why didn't I earn red points previously? Why wait to call me out until my position became more moderate? I did answer it. I wrote "My first post wasn't directed at you but at everyone and in my second post I focused on your position on the issue and awared you your red points." I came back from work, posted my question, and went on to read the thread to look for stuff to analyse while waiting for people to react. You did, so I replied to you. Dunno how you see anything wrong with it.
Ah, ok. That's a fair point. The initial post was made not having read my post, and the second post was made not being aware of my position that it's up to you and that delaying has some advantages.
What do you think of my defense of the "delay posting analysis" idea? So far you've said it's "Red Points" because it was suggested by V7, but that's not an adequate criticism. I think that one of the few things we can do to inhibit mafia information inflow is to delay night analysis posts until the end of the night. Does this reduce our info? no. But it inhibits the mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:06 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Tonight the mafia may have already made their decision, but if we can get the same info without exposing ourselves more by delaying an analysis post another hour, is that really a bad idea? One thought would be that we need as much information as possible, but I'm not saying we shouldn't have the info, just that a minor delay is good. Five hours is what we're talking about here. Yes, because it's not just about your own analysis. It's about your analysis and everyone else reacting to (or ignoring) it. An isolated read isn't as good as being able to analyse people's responces.
Hm. That's true, the extra 24 hours may make the difference. On the other hand, it's worth noting that at the beginning of the day, we do receive another piece of information: assuming that either (a) there is no doctor or (b) the doctor guesses wrong, one of us dies and is a confirmed townie or blue. A dead confirmed townie or blue, but a confirmed townie or blue no less. This information might be unhelpful but it could also play a big role in terms of analysis.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:09 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:02 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 03:59 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 03:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 03:47 xtfftc wrote:Also, why are the red points red points now but weren't red points 20 minutes ago? On December 07 2011 03:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Basically, why come at me now for my position when, relative to you, my position has become closer? If anything, I moved form an unfavorable position (thinking we shouldn't post at night) to a favorable position (our night posts should be closer to the deadline). If it was reasonable to call me out for this, it became LESS reasonable in the 20 minutes between your two posts. On December 07 2011 03:33 Blazinghand wrote:
UHN YEAH THATS RIGHT WHATCHA GONNA SAY NOW MR INCONSISTENT My first post wasn't directed at you but at everyone and in my second post I focused on your position on the issue and awared you your red points. I would like you to re-read my posts carefully and inform me if you still see any inconsistency. See, you've bolded the wrong part of my post. It shouldn't be On December 07 2011 03:01 xtfftc wrote:
Just came back from work. Do you guys reckon I should post my new analysis now or closer to the deadline? Usually we would like to keep the discussion going but considering that pretty much everyone else is happy to lurk today, I wonder whether I should post close to the deadline to make it harder for the mafia to switch if they want to. Instead, it should be On December 07 2011 03:01 xtfftc wrote:
Just came back from work. Do you guys reckon I should post my new analysis now or closer to the deadline? Usually we would like to keep the discussion going but considering that pretty much everyone else is happy to lurk today, I wonder whether I should post close to the deadline to make it harder for the mafia to switch if they want to. You still haven't answered my question. Decent dodge though. Why didn't I earn red points previously? Why wait to call me out until my position became more moderate? I did answer it. I wrote "My first post wasn't directed at you but at everyone and in my second post I focused on your position on the issue and awared you your red points." I came back from work, posted my question, and went on to read the thread to look for stuff to analyse while waiting for people to react. You did, so I replied to you. Dunno how you see anything wrong with it. Ah, ok. That's a fair point. The initial post was made not having read my post, and the second post was made not being aware of my position that it's up to you and that delaying has some advantages. What do you think of my defense of the "delay posting analysis" idea? So far you've said it's "Red Points" because it was suggested by V7, but that's not an adequate criticism. I think that one of the few things we can do to inhibit mafia information inflow is to delay night analysis posts until the end of the night. Does this reduce our info? no. But it inhibits the mafia. This is what I posted first (just before mentioning Vader): Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:22 xtfftc wrote:
The mafia love keeping quiet during the night because there's much less pressure to vote after the lynch - but if we engage in a discussion, they would be forced to do so. And also, the post just above this one where I clarified it again.
Note that I am not a fan of stopping the discussion at any point. I like to keep people talking. I like lynching lurkers. Putting pressure on the mafia is a great idea and is the #1 way to get them to slip up. However, I think this is counterbalanced by the danger of providing additional information to the mafia at night.
Look, any analysis post that could have been posted before the voting deadline SHOULD HAVE BEEN posted before the voting deadline, to maximize town info pre-vote, right? The only new info we get is whether the target was a townie or a red. In this case, we somewhat suspected BByte to be townie, just a lurker-- and so that new info wasn't particularly interesting.
This means that at night, we have no new info to work off of. Any analysis post worth posting would be worth posting beforehand. This means that we'd want to generate discussion again and analyze based off that, and I think that would give the mafia too much information. The fact of the matter is, if they're gonna lurk, we're gonna lynch them, and taking 24 hours to deny them some information while we wait for more info (who got killed) sounds reasonable to me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:13 Blazinghand wrote:
Note that I am not a fan of stopping the discussion at any point.
EBWOP: I guess this statement isn't really true because I wanted to get us to stop talking at night. On the other hand, maybe it IS true because I'm discussing right now. I'm not 100% on this issue but I don't think my case is indefensible.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:14 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:09 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 04:06 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 03:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Tonight the mafia may have already made their decision, but if we can get the same info without exposing ourselves more by delaying an analysis post another hour, is that really a bad idea? One thought would be that we need as much information as possible, but I'm not saying we shouldn't have the info, just that a minor delay is good. Five hours is what we're talking about here. Yes, because it's not just about your own analysis. It's about your analysis and everyone else reacting to (or ignoring) it. An isolated read isn't as good as being able to analyse people's responces. Hm. That's true, the extra 24 hours may make the difference. On the other hand, it's worth noting that at the beginning of the day, we do receive another piece of information: assuming that either (a) there is no doctor or (b) the doctor guesses wrong, one of us dies and is a confirmed townie or blue. A dead confirmed townie or blue, but a confirmed townie or blue no less. This information might be unhelpful but it could also play a big role in terms of analysis. Seeing the flips can definitely help your own reads, I suggest that you try to reread the thread after each death because it may give you some new perspective. That said do not use the flips as a base for a case against somebody because that is likely to have been manipulated by scum
Well yeah, just because I die for example doesn't mean BKEXE is scum; he could well be town and I got killed so you guys would think he's scum, etc. Sometimes this gets a bit WIFOM-ey. You have to be careful because there's a big difference between "confirmed town" and "this guy knows what he's doing"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:15 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:09 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 04:06 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 03:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Tonight the mafia may have already made their decision, but if we can get the same info without exposing ourselves more by delaying an analysis post another hour, is that really a bad idea? One thought would be that we need as much information as possible, but I'm not saying we shouldn't have the info, just that a minor delay is good. Five hours is what we're talking about here. Yes, because it's not just about your own analysis. It's about your analysis and everyone else reacting to (or ignoring) it. An isolated read isn't as good as being able to analyse people's responces. Hm. That's true, the extra 24 hours may make the difference. On the other hand, it's worth noting that at the beginning of the day, we do receive another piece of information: assuming that either (a) there is no doctor or (b) the doctor guesses wrong, one of us dies and is a confirmed townie or blue. A dead confirmed townie or blue, but a confirmed townie or blue no less. This information might be unhelpful but it could also play a big role in terms of analysis. Going off your assumption that someone will end up dying tonight, why should we hold off on posting analysis? The more conversation that we can have before night ends, the more that the dead townie will be able to contribute before they die. Given this, I feel that we stand to gain more by posting analysis earlier so that we can discuss it with all of the town voices.
Alright, that's a fair point. And by now, it doesn't matter anyways since we're talking up a shitstorm. I suppose that the discussion must press on regardless.
That being said, I consider it unfair to call someone scum based on a difference opinion, but it's probably just a novice mistake on xft's part.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:19 xtfftc wrote:
And yeah, agreed with Grackaroni's last two posts.
Grackaroni
.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
I think it should be made very clear that a confirmed town doesn't KNOW anything more than an unconfirmed town, and I'm not confirmed town, and even if I were you should scrutinize my posts carefully. The fact of the matter is, I'm wrong a lot of times before I'm right, and just because a guy's probably innocent doesn't make him smart. I've played one mafia game-- this game. I'm as inexperienced as you guys. DO NOT SHEEP ME. I'm alarmed how many people followed me onto Adam and BByte without good analysis of their own.
Think for yourself. Get in the practice with it, or the mafia will confuse is and shit on us.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:23 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:19 xtfftc wrote:
And yeah, agreed with Grackaroni's last two posts. Show nested quote +Grackaroni
.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
I think it should be made very clear that a confirmed town doesn't KNOW anything more than an unconfirmed town, and I'm not confirmed town, and even if I were you should scrutinize my posts carefully. The fact of the matter is, I'm wrong a lot of times before I'm right, and just because a guy's probably innocent doesn't make him smart. I've played one mafia game-- this game. I'm as inexperienced as you guys. DO NOT SHEEP ME. I'm alarmed how many people followed me onto Adam and BByte without good analysis of their own. Think for yourself. Get in the practice with it, or the mafia will confuse is and shit on us.
PS: It's totally chill to agree with me. I don't mind. Disagreeing, however, produces a lot more evidence than agreeing. Take my discussion just now with xft; I think everyone has a better idea of the value of night posting now that this has happened.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are.
Nah I no longer agree with that idea. The mafia's gonna hit someone anyways, we might as well maximize our information and opportunity to comment. Post your stuff.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:27 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are. Nah I no longer agree with that idea. The mafia's gonna hit someone anyways, we might as well maximize our information and opportunity to comment. Post your stuff.
BTW I think you personally BKEXE should post your stuff just because I feel like your performance so far has been mildly underwhelming.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:28 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:17 Blazinghand wrote:
That being said, I consider it unfair to call someone scum based on a difference opinion, but it's probably just a novice mistake on xft's part. I didn't call you scum, I just gave you some red points ^^ And the red points weren't about your opinion but about you not being logical enough on the issue in question.
Wait, so the problem wasn't that I had my opinion, but it was that my opinion was illogical? But... is my position inherently illogical, or was it the particular way I supported it? Because from the way I read this this is you saying "well, your position was different than mine, and mine is logical, therefore you are illogical and are red points"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:27 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are. Nah I no longer agree with that idea. The mafia's gonna hit someone anyways, we might as well maximize our information and opportunity to comment. Post your stuff.
I swear to god BKEXE if you dodge I'm going to figuratively literally walk over to your house and shit in your refrigerator.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:36 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:27 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are. Nah I no longer agree with that idea. The mafia's gonna hit someone anyways, we might as well maximize our information and opportunity to comment. Post your stuff. I swear to god BKEXE if you dodge I'm going to figuratively literally walk over to your house and shit in your refrigerator.
OH LAWL HE POSTED WHILE I WROTE THIS MY BAD
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:36 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:36 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 04:27 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are. Nah I no longer agree with that idea. The mafia's gonna hit someone anyways, we might as well maximize our information and opportunity to comment. Post your stuff. I swear to god BKEXE if you dodge I'm going to figuratively literally walk over to your house and shit in your refrigerator. OH LAWL HE POSTED WHILE I WROTE THIS MY BAD
One might say that was a ... waste of a cleverly-worded threat.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:
My bad I skiped over Tunkeg, and jay (you all know what I tink about adam.)
I'd like to hear your thoughts on TK and JB.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:59 Tunkeg wrote:
What I find more interisting is the lynch on BByte. As I said before putting my vote on him, I feel he got bandwagoned, but out of the three candidates he was the "best". How do you guys see this lynch in hindsight? Was it the best we could do, with the information we had?
Honestly, yes it was. It was a bandwagon, and I'm somewhat disappointing that so little additional analysis was made, but as BByte noted himself, he picked a bad time to go afk for 24 hours. He hadn't posted enough content for anyone to get a read of any sort on him, and although he turned out to be a townie, he was still a lurker, if not by his own choosing.
All my scumreads were mild, and I don't think we could have increased the probability that we'd lynch a mafia guy in any meaningful fashion by lynching someone different. I don't think anyone was really able to say "this guy here is a mafia" and be justified. We also demonstrated a willingness to lynch lurkers, and I'm sure we will continue to aggressively attack people for lurking in the future. This sets a dangerous precedent for mafia members, who feel pressured to both lurk and now to not lurk.
We could have had a better Day 1, but it could have been much worse. We did what we could.
But I'd also like you guys to analyze more before you vote with me. I'm kind of aggressive with my voting in cas eyou hadn't noticed.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 04:55 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 04:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:
My bad I skiped over Tunkeg, and jay (you all know what I tink about adam.) I'd like to hear your thoughts on TK and JB.
It seems that, like halley's comet, BKEXE has passed out of our solar system again (despite his brief and incomplete visit)... we can expect to see him return some day again as a habringer of doom.
Srsly man if you skip over a couple people AND you acknowledge that you did so, please take the time to evaluate them too...
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 09:23 Adam4167 wrote:
Today, I vehemently suggest we lynch someone who is actually active and acting scummy rather than trading another two townies for no information by killing another lurker.
Today, I suggest that nobody lurk.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Adam4167, I think your post is a little over the top. Less QQ more Pew Pew plz.
I think that you should make a case, right here, to lynch JB. Make good and convincing. I think you think JB is the biggest scumread, and I also think that you're not doing a good job of convincing people. This isn't a game about what you think; it's a game about what you can prove and what you can convince people of. The fact of the matter is, we lynched an inactive player, and *I* didn't have any scumreads strong enough to convince me to lynch someone else.
You, apparently, did.
You failed to convince me.
You failed to convince everyone.
It's your fault that this lynch went the wrong way, if you honestly had a solid scumread and didn't present a solid case to go with it. Please, go ahead. Impress me. Show me the updated case for JB taking into account what he's posted since you last attacked him:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=19#367
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D
Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted.
Don't do that.
Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).
I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 09:54 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Why are you being so defensive over this? I didn’t single you out and railroad you for this lynch because I felt your play was CONSISTENT with your stance towards lurkers. I specifically targeted everyone who jumped on the bandwagon and made it pick up steam so easily because they weren’t willing to stick to their own reads. Its OK to be wrong, I'm not out to get you. But everyone else really needs to be held accountable for why they are blindly following.
I'm being defensive because the BByte lynch was the right move.
I'm also being offensive because, goddamnit, if you found a mafia member, I WANT TO KNOW THAT AND BE CONVINCED. A first-day lynch would be awesome! But you failed to convince me and evidently you had a better case on JB.
Let's hear it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yeah it's definitely JB.
##Vote: jaybrundage
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 10:06 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:02 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah it's definitely JB.
##Vote: jaybrundage LOL I had a feeling you were trying to save yourself from being the NK, that's exactly why I never brought up your analysis. But on what I've said on JB so far in my analysis and also your pretty compelling analysis, lets do the right thing here: ##Vote: jaybrundage
I'd like to see a comprehensive JB case from you. I really would. I'm not ACTUALLY 100% on him, and I don't like voting on hunches, but we have lots and lots of time. Put together your case, and I'll put together mine, and lets post and see how it matches up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
My Original Case for JB:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it.
THE NEW MATERIAL:
On December 06 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok im going to make a full response to BH but first what do you mean by hedging i thought it might be a mafia term but i looked it up. And got nothing and also adam i was talking about BKEXE being a easy lynch.
Can't google hedging?? Meaningless dodge attempt.
On December 06 2011 09:45 jaybrundage wrote:
BH i cant even understand your post what the fuck is hedging lol. Half of your statements are me hedging someone. So plz tell me what it means
Mode Dodge attempt. After this I post the definition of hedging.
He ignored it. Completely COMPLETELY DODGES.
The end of the day is comingup...
On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. THIS ISN'T A REAL ARGUMENT. THIS IS HIM BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE KNOWS BBYTE IS TOWN. This is him setting up to be proven right and be like "lawl i'm town u guyz even though i contribute nothing and dodge like i'm a fucking agent from the matrix"
LIKE IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, DON'T POST THEM 1 MINUTE AFTER THE VOT EDEADLINE. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT? THE REASON YOU WOULD WAIT IS THAT YOU DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY STOP THE VOTE BECUASE YOU ARE SUCM
On December 06 2011 10:40 jaybrundage wrote:
Fuck
AND THIS IS MEANINGLESS. COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS
On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D
what the dicks is this
scum scum scum
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. THIS ISN'T A REAL ARGUMENT. THIS IS HIM BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE KNOWS BBYTE IS TOWN. This is him setting up to be proven right and be like "lawl i'm town u guyz even though i contribute nothing and dodge like i'm a fucking agent from the matrix" LIKE IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, DON'T POST THEM 1 MINUTE AFTER THE VOT EDEADLINE. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT? THE REASON YOU WOULD WAIT IS THAT YOU DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY STOP THE VOTE BECUASE YOU ARE SUCM
This is the principle core of my argument. Jaybrundage, for the most part, presents a vaguely helpful-sounding face but never actually does anything. And this final post, here? This post is a post that could have helped, but he waited until 1 minute after the polls closed. He did it because he wanted BByte dead, but he wanted to LOOK like he wanted to stop it.
Think about the motivations behind a post like this. Think carefully, and form your own judgement.
Ladies and Gentlemen, there's no way a town player would make this post.
No way at all.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Well BH time to get to your post.
It's been time for some time, JB.
On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Half of my posts you called Hedging. The way you post it i assumed hedging was something a mafia would do.
However as far as i can see it hedging is just stating your opinion with out stating it as a fact or a statement correct?
Well ofc this is the case so far the only person who's alignment i know is me and Bbyte.
Therefore i could state Bbyte is a town or that he was pushing a town agenda but was lurking. I would not have to say i think hes pushing a town agenda. Or it seems to me. Or any of that bullshit.
The reason i use this hedging is because i don't know anything. Everything that i state is speculation, analyze, and my thoughts on a matter.
So in the end everyplace that you said i was hedging was really just me giving my thoughts and opinions on someone.
No, where you're hedging you're deliberately not making statements so you can't be accountable to them later. The fact of the matter was, where other people were making analysis and backing up their claims with evidence, you were hedging like a hedgehog. This is typical mafia play, to try to lay low and not stick out the head.
On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Then you bold where i stated something about breadcrumbs and WBGs play Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:
What i said
BByte-
He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte
What BH wrote
Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME.
Ok for this im going to get Bbyte's quote so we have some context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 21:58 BByte wrote:Good morning afternoon, nice to get the game started. On policies: Lynch all liars and Lynch all lurkers are useful tools for hunting scum and promoting valid town discussion. Some random points:On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use. Back to reading the thread, more thoughts later. Also feel free to ask me anything, I'll be happy to discuss stuff that's not already beaten to death. Hm So i said that WBG was roleclaiming and because of his Breadcrumbs people believed him (incorrectly because he did turn out to be mafia). But as Bbyte said Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim So i agree with him. Because WBG used them to his advantage as mafia. Maybe i assumed that people would know about the game. But i dont think i did anything mafia like in this maybe just assuming something?
Funny how ambiguously worded that paragraph was, that it could mean one thing or the other depending on if people called you out on it or not. You literally didn't mention, link, or QUOTE that WBG WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME. This seems like a fairly crucial detail in a game full of people who haven't played before.
On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Moving onYou criticize my comment that no one should get heated in the thread. Are you honestly calling that post Link Do you think that we should let our emotions guide our conversation. I was using examples but getting heated in this game is not gonna help us. I could call you out as Stupid and being idiotic for lynching a townie. But obviously even if i was pissed it would be dumb to do that. I think that we can both agree that you making a snide remark to ey about playing lol didnt help at all in finding mafia. Don't you agree?
I stand by the descision to lynch Bbyte. At the time we made it, it was our best option. I also made up with ey215 very quickly after that. I'm not calling you out because I dislike you personally; I'm calling you out because you're a mafia member and by lynching you we can win this game.
On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On another note EB you wrote you think im scum. Plz provide a case. Or what you say is useless
HAH. HAH HAH HAH. You are fully aware EB is dead and asking him for a case. Literally every townie is fully aware of this. Are you really trying to pretend you don't know the mafia shot him? Nobody's gonna buy that. There's no way you don't know the mafia shot EB. This is another lame attempt at looking town that is obviously not working.
On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia.
This is not actually a refutation of my case. QUOTE ME. QUOTE YOURSELF. Show me where you unequivocally make a solid case BEFORE THE VOTING DEADLINE PASSEd. Show me. Evidence.
But there is none, right? There's no evidence becuase you're guilty.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
JB I'd like to see a serious case for literally any player who's not you being scummier than you. If you can provide me with that I won't attack you any more. If you can't, then it seems to me that you're scum.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 11:44 Velinath wrote:
Why did you post that you saw EB died in one post, then immediately ask him why he thinks you're scum in your very next post?
Because JB is scum, and now that the pressure on he's scumslipping hella hard. Ii thought this was fairly clear.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 11:48 Velinath wrote:
ebwop:err, I got his posts reversed - he asks EB first, THEN states "I didn't know he was going to die" in teh subsequent post, with no posts in between
Meh he still should have read the day post. Literally nobody would miss the day post.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Dude you gotta read the thread more.
I still think your hedging comment is bullshit. I gave my opinion on things. I expect to be held fully accountable for what i state.
Apparently not because you're dodging. dodging hard.
On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol if i was fully aware EB was dead why would i ask him for his case on me. I think your just putting pressure on me becauese of this post.
...you would ask him for his case on you so you'd appear town. ._. do you really not understand what i'm saying here? I'm saying you lied. I'm saying you pretended to think EB was alive, because you wanted to appear town. But as it turns out, our heads are not made out of hard candy.
Our bodies are not sturdy cardboard cylinders
We are not suckers.
We don't buy it.
Scum.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 11:57 Velinath wrote:
@JB: So you skipped the day post for like half an hour? I find that hard to believe.
Yup.
On December 07 2011 11:58 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage Why would you claim right now your giving mafia information that we dont want them to have. And secondly if you dont post a case on me WITH YOUR OWN THOUGHTS we gonna have another mislynch with BH leading it. You gotta stop sheeping Veli if you wanna give me your case give me YOUR case
1) he's not claiming a role; he could well be a vanilla townie who was targeted by the roleblock
2) yes, everyone please post your thoughts on how scummy JB is
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 12:02 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:58 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage Why would you claim right now your giving mafia information that we dont want them to have. And secondly if you dont post a case on me WITH YOUR OWN THOUGHTS we gonna have another mislynch with BH leading it. You gotta stop sheeping Veli if you wanna give me your case give me YOUR case Who said anything about claiming? Read the OP, ANYONE is told they get roleblocked if they get targeted by the roleblocker, even if they are a vanilla townie. I am not giving scum ANY information here.
Don't worry JB is just freaking out because we know he's mafia and trying to deflect attention. The fact that you're claiming you got blocked doesn't say anything about your alignment. You could be a Blue or Green who got blocked, or you could be a Red who is claiming he got blocked (knowing that the roleblocker held back this round) to try to gain cred. It's just a statement, not a claim, nothing more, nothing less.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 12:02 jaybrundage wrote:
But this question has to be asked if i saw the daypost why the hell would i ask EB a question who is now dead? it makes no sense if i was mafia or town. Its just a stupid thing to do. And makes me look suspicious.
Ah, so because it was dumb, you must not be mafia? You can't WIFOM your way out of this. You made a gambit to look town and it backfired, bad. Nobody misses the day post. Not even you.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 12:17 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:04 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 12:02 jaybrundage wrote:
But this question has to be asked if i saw the daypost why the hell would i ask EB a question who is now dead? it makes no sense if i was mafia or town. Its just a stupid thing to do. And makes me look suspicious. Ah, so because it was dumb, you must not be mafia? You can't WIFOM your way out of this. You made a gambit to look town and it backfired, bad. Nobody misses the day post. Not even you. No dude its called Occam's Razor the simplest explanation is the prolly the correct one. I didn't see EB was dead so i asked him a question. What your are doing is WIFOM. But a dumb one imo. Call it what you will i didnt see the day post. simple as that
you think it's SIMPLER that you didn't see the day post, THIS DAY POST:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#597
WITH THE BRIGHT RED PICTURE, THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE WHERE WE VOTE YOU, THE ONE THAT YOU'D LITERALLY HAVE TO SCROLL PAST TO SEE OUR VOTES
that's the post you didn't see?
For reference, outside observers:
This is the post he claims he didn't notice:
On December 07 2011 10:00 Forumite wrote:- Day 2 -![[image loading]](http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2513/communistparty.gif) After class the day before, some of the students felt in the mood for a party, and tagged along with ElectricBlack, one of the older students, back to his part of the dormatory. Drinks were had, and they also performed an impressive experiment involving tequila, oranges and fire. There were no major injuries, and one death. Memories of the evening went foggy after that. At the class several of the students showed the effects of a late night of heavy drinking, but what really caught everyones attention was not the state of those present, but one notable absence. Zona arrived and looked around the classroom. "Isn´t ElectricBlack here yet? Not much we can do about that, we will just have to continue the exercise without him."
ElectricBlack, the Vanilla Townie missed class and was expelled!
Day 2 ends in 48 hours, at 01:00 GMT (+00:00), or 10:00 KST the 9th of December
yeah man i miss posts like tat all the time
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
btw gentlemen feel free to post cases about other players as well. Just because I think JB is scum doesn't mean he's the best lynch for today; maybe there's someone else who is even more scummy. I want everyone to post their biggest scumreads plz.
JB, you too. Who do you think is scum?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Could a mod PM the guys who are afk? It's kind of important they not be afk and/or they get replaced. i'm sure you guys are onto it but just thought I'd ask.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 13:10 jaybrundage wrote:
Regardless i want to get more input from people before i start typing a case. Adam is still might have my vote but lets see what new information the new day brings
Someone has to go first, right? I went first. I want you to go now. People may be asleep, etc, and we can't afford to waste real time trying to "Get more input". I could understand if you wanted to see if the afkers are gonna be replaced or what, but you didn't say that.
It makes sense to start putting together a case now and refine it as you get more information.
Unless you're scum and stalling. then it's a great strat.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 13:15 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 13:10 jaybrundage wrote:
Regardless i want to get more input from people before i start typing a case. Adam is still might have my vote but lets see what new information the new day brings Someone has to go first, right? I went first. I want you to go now. People may be asleep, etc, and we can't afford to waste real time trying to "Get more input". I could understand if you wanted to see if the afkers are gonna be replaced or what, but you didn't say that. It makes sense to start putting together a case now and refine it as you get more information. Unless you're scum and stalling. then it's a great strat.
I mean, hell, how do you get more input? By people making analysis. You should at least contribute a bit. The townest thing to do is to contribute, you know.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 13:58 ey215 wrote:
I'd like to take the discussion in at least a mildly different direction and ask if we should be acting on the information we got by the mafia offing EB. Frankly, I was a little surprised they didn't go after Blazing unless they thought we'd have a medic and they'd be protecting him.
Also, do they want us lynching one of the three people (if I recall correctly) that EB had focused on or did they get rid of him to shut him up and keep him from persuading us?
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much there is to gain from trying to analyze mafia night actions, just because they can be so confusing-- it can be classic WIFOM (wine in front of me, a reference to the circular logic of the mercenary's puzzle in the princess bride). Maybe EB was right on the money, maybe he wasn't. All we know now is that he was town.
Maybe they didn't go for me because they don't think I'll point in the right direction. Maybe I'm actually mafia and this is an elaborate ploy, so of course they can't go for me. Maybe I'm town and they're not shooting me to cast suspicion on me. Maybe there's a doctor and they think he's saving me (Mafia know which 2 blues are in the game).
In the end, we can't deduce anything from their actions because they know we will try to do so.
On December 07 2011 13:58 ey215 wrote:
I'm personally of the opinion that we should lynch the scummiest of jayb, xtf, or hassey and see where that leads us.
I agree with this, but corollary: we should just lynch the scummiest person in general, regardless of who EB thought was scum. It just so happens he and I agree on JB.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 14:13 ey215 wrote:
On a side note, off to bed. I'll be back on after my final.
Good luck on the final! Make sure to read, analyze, and vote, and respond to allegations before the deadline.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 07 2011 14:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:
jay - to me jay is another one of those people who is being printed as scum based on the fact that he is opposed to BH in some aspect. I feel that he has provided some solid leads, but has to respond to the attacks by other more often then not. I feel like until he can get a few more unprovoked responses in until I can decide.
I was unaware that JB and I were in disagreement about something before i fingered him as scum. Quote plz
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now.
Don't worry man JB will ignore any questions/comments that incriminate him, and will lie and misdirect, because he has no answer for this because, of course, he's scum.
Look, to the people who aren't me, Veli, or JB: read JB's arguments carefully. In my opinion, they're usually deceitful and based on misdirection, dodging questions, and outright lies. I'm going to read over what was posted when I was sleeping and put together a response, but I really think that if you take a look at the way JB has been defending himself and the evidence against him and his general unhelpfulness, and think for yourself, you'll find your way to the truth.
Time to do some more analysis :D
Also, anyone who has analysis on people who aren't JB, please post it (if you already haven't). This is probably the most helpful thing you can do since we want to continue collecting information.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 02:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
The mafia probaly saw this as a threat and that combined with the spite everyone was showing EB made him an easy target. If the majority of people did not like EB would they really feel like his death was a real loss? Definitely not, I feel like the lack of posts about EB proves that. Since everyone felt like EB was going to be an unproductive townie they thought the act was seemingly random, so no one has had the insight to really dig into his death.
Analyzing mafia actions in this manner is a waste of time and I think is the like, primordial initial WIFOM. What if literally every insight you just made about the mafia is inverted, and the mafia is doing this to throw you off? That could actually be the case. I think we're better off analyzing the actions of people who are still alive than leaping through loops of circular logic about the EB kill.
All the EB kill tells us is that he was town. That's all. Maybe the mafia targeted him because we pressured him. Maybe they targeted him because he said JB was scum. Maybe they targeted him because JB WASNT mafia and they want jB and HB to look guilty. Who the hell can say? I personally think they targeted him because he was an unlikely medic heal candidate (assuming, of course, we even have a doctor) but we can't say for sure.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:25 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 05:04 Blazinghand wrote:
All my scumreads were mild, and I don't think we could have increased the probability that we'd lynch a mafia guy in any meaningful fashion by lynching someone different. I don't think anyone was really able to say "this guy here is a mafia" and be justified. We also demonstrated a willingness to lynch lurkers, and I'm sure we will continue to aggressively attack people for lurking in the future. This sets a dangerous precedent for mafia members, who feel pressured to both lurk and now to not lurk. What if another townie starts lurking? Do we lynch him on day 2? Or do we give lurkers a free pass from now on, allowing the mafia to stay out of the spotlight?
If another "townie" starts lurking? We don't know whether or not he's a townie.
If another player starts lurking, and we don't have a solid scumread, he's dead. I think this should be obvious; otherwise the mafia will just lurk.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I still feel that from now on we do need to include a reason why EB got killed along with our scum posts. I feel like it still has to make sense that the person we chose to lynch tonight had something to gain from EB's death. From your experience do you feel that the mafia had no motive (besides the fact that he was an easy kill?)
I strongly disagree. I think that EB was killed, and maybe it was someone who had something to gain, or maybe it was someone who didn't have something to gain, except insofar as trying cast suspicion on other people. Do you really not understand what a waste of time it is to try to analyze it as far as "who had something to gain?"
Look, there are some good things we can learn from the EB death.
1) EB was town
2) the mafia probably killed him because he wasn't doctor protected
3) his death doesn't point the finger at anyone atm
Look, I'm suspicious of JB and HB, both of whom EB thought was scum. But I'm not suspicious of them BECAUSE EB thought they were scum, and maybe they killed him to shut him up. I'm going after JB because of his ACTIONS.
When you start analyzing people based on stuff other than that, you're likely to end up lyching someone for no reason.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:33 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now. Its irrelevant stop getting tied up in things that dont matter. But ofc your gonna keep nitpicking because my case makes sense you and BH were the pushing factor to BBytes mislynch because he saw that you were scum Veli
So, just to be clear here: You think that I'm mafia, that Velinath is mafia, and that we lynched BByte because he was an active, contributing townie and we were worried he was going to come after us?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:33 Tunkeg wrote:
In closing I have a question to Velinath and Blazinghand: You two led the lynch on BByte, now you are leading the lynch on jaybrundage. If this is also a misslynch can you see how this will lead the rest of us to be suspicious towards you? Is your reads on jaybrundage strong enough that you are willing to put your head on the block for it? If not, do you think it is fair that you two are tunneling so hard on him?
I will reiterate: I want all other townspeople to think carefully before they vote, and present their analysis on JB and other players. Find me a stronger scumread and I see no need to lynch JB.
That being said, I currently think JB is scum. His actions and defenses get more and more scummy and filled with lies. still working on my overnight analysis post. As it stands, I'm willing to "put my head on the block" for it, as it were.
The onus is on all players to provide solid scumreads. Maybe I'm wrong, and JB is innocent. Probably not; but if you guys can't produce a better target, I'm gonna do everything I can to take this one down.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:35 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now. Its irrelevant stop getting tied up in things that dont matter. But ofc your gonna keep nitpicking because my case makes sense you and BH were the pushing factor to BBytes mislynch because he saw that you were scum Veli So, just to be clear here: You think that I'm mafia, that Velinath is mafia, and that we lynched BByte because he was an active, contributing townie and we were worried he was going to come after us?
On December 08 2011 03:39 jaybrundage wrote:
Alright tunkeg are you still going to go for xsksc then for mafia?
Answer my question please. Do you think that Veli is mafia, and I'm mafia, and we lynched BByte because he was an active contributing townie and we were worried he was going to come after us?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
My response to JB re: the BByte lynch
On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow.
NO. NO YOU ARE LITERALLY LYING. THAT'S NOT WHAT i CAME BACK AT YOU WITH. ARE YOU SERIOUS.
HERE IS THE REPLY POST I MADE TO YOUR POST. I MADE IT BEFORE I MADE THAT POST. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY YOU ALWAYS LEAVE OUT AND CHERRYPICK MY QUOTES OH WAIT I KNOW WHY ITS BECAUSE YOURE MAFIA
On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:49 jaybrundage wrote:
I think that you lynched Bbyte because he made a case against Veli.
You saw it as a threat you feared he would pursue
So you killed him.
And now you think im a threat and you go after me.
Is that why you killed EB because you were afraid he would take away your power over the town
Tell me this lets say your town (lol)
Do you think that Veli has a possiblity to be scum.
He has followed you pretty consistently.
And is always on your side.
And doesn't give much of his own opinion or much content
So then: you think both Veli and I are mafia. That's the case you're making. I want to you say it. Type it out. come out and say it straight so that you can't deny, you can't hedge it any more. Type "I think blazinghand and velinath are mafia" and hist the post button.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Why do you say bad for the game? And how could it be a big tell?
Stop beating around the bush. WITHOUT cherrypicking any quotes, without hedging, and without lying, I want you to state that you believe veli and I are mafia. Say it, so you're held accountable for your words.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:52 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Why do you say bad for the game? And how could it be a big tell? Stop beating around the bush. WITHOUT cherrypicking any quotes, without hedging, and without lying, I want you to state that you believe veli and I are mafia. Say it, so you're held accountable for your words.
Actually, honestly, I don't know why I should care about veli. He could well be mafia; I don't know.
The point here is, I want you to come out and say I'm mafia if that's what you believe. I've posted a lot. If i'm mafia, i'm sure it'll be obvious by now. Make your case to the town, JB. If I'm mafia, I need to be stopped now before I control everything.
Or maybe you're just trying to confuse people. Maybe you're mafia. let's see what you've got.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze
Ah yes, respond to me catching you in a lie with a question. Dodge my question as well. Well, I'll answer your question:
when I said "we all failed", believe it or not, "we all" includes me. I was sharing responsibility, not abdicating it.
I was fighting sheeping. and I still am.
So, answer me. DO YOU THINK I AM MAFIA? Say it straight out. I want you to be accountable for your opinion.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, that only took about 10 years. I think I somehow missed your well-reasoned case on me. Could you link me to it?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 04:06 jaybrundage wrote:I think you and Veli are mafia. Lol oh wait im hedging again oppsies + Show Spoiler +VELINATH AND BLAZINGHAND ARE MAFIA There ya go :D
BTW that text is kind of big and obnoxious, somehow even moreso than my own.
I'd like to point out another classic JB self-contradiction:
On December 08 2011 00:01 jaybrundage wrote:
@BH COME AT ME BRO
On December 08 2011 01:07 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro. Still Following BH LOL
Is this serious? All JB seems to do is lie, misquote, and hedge.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 04:11 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol sarcasm escapes you rofl.
Caught in yet another inconsistency? Must be sarcasm.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Let me tell you what normally happens when I accuse someone of being scum in this game: They contribute some useful posts, and I back off, because it's clear they're town.
But when it's JB? he flips out and OMGUSes, starts lying, misquoting, and hedging even more.
I view his deceit and lies in general as anti-town play.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
ey215, you're on the list of people I have a town read on. Could you look into xtsc/tunkeg debate a bit? I need to read up on it as well, but getting a solid read in there would also be good.
Also, I can't throw out the possibility that Veli is bussing JB. I'll be examining his posting as well. If you could help with this that would be great.
Replacement people: please try to get posting. We need you guys to develop a presence in the game asap.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay.
This is a good point. Adam doesn't actually ADD any analysis in his posts against JB, and seems pretty comfortable hopping on the wagon. This could well be an indication of the bus. By voting early, he can later defend himself by saying "well I was one of the first guys to vote for JB"...
I think there may be (atm) a small case to be made against Adam. Nonetheless, I consider JB to be a much, much more solid scumread. We'll have to see how Adam responds to your analysis here.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
PS: JB, if you think both Velinath and I are mafia, I strongly recommend you vote for me instead of him (unless you think he's more likely to be mafia than me). I'm a much more aggressive player. 
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 04:57 xtfftc wrote:
BH and Velinath, I think you should take a step back from Jay. You've made a very extensive case on him and the last few pages have turned into a farce with all the shouting. Unless you come up with something good to add, it might be better if you encourage other people to post their views on the issue or get another discussion going.
Man, we're all over it. JB has dug himself in a deep hole with his lies and misdirection, and I think anyone who does even a cursory analysis of his shouting will see the truth. I'm already encouraging people to do other stuff:
On December 08 2011 04:25 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay. This is a good point. Adam doesn't actually ADD any analysis in his posts against JB, and seems pretty comfortable hopping on the wagon. This could well be an indication of the bus. By voting early, he can later defend himself by saying "well I was one of the first guys to vote for JB"... I think there may be (atm) a small case to be made against Adam. Nonetheless, I consider JB to be a much, much more solid scumread. We'll have to see how Adam responds to your analysis here.
On December 08 2011 04:21 Blazinghand wrote:
ey215, you're on the list of people I have a town read on. Could you look into xtsc/tunkeg debate a bit? I need to read up on it as well, but getting a solid read in there would also be good.
Also, I can't throw out the possibility that Veli is bussing JB. I'll be examining his posting as well. If you could help with this that would be great.
Replacement people: please try to get posting. We need you guys to develop a presence in the game asap.
I consider JB the best lynch target, as has been the case for some time now, but we must continue our analysis of all players. He's only one of 3 mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So, I'm off to my final, and that's gonna keep me tied up for some time. As you can see, I faced off with JB and that is a lot of posts, so I'm gonna link to my important analysis/evidence posts for my case against JB.
As the pressure has increased on him, he has lied and scumslipped quite a bit. I've assembled these links and quotes here so that it's easy to find. to prove I'm not taking stuff out of context, all the links are included so you can click through and see the truth for yourself. Open the spoilers to see the posts.
My complete Case on JB being scum
The original case, from last night:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=26#514
+ Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it.
My thoughts on the BByte lynch and my response to JB's criticism:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#594
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam.
My case for JB in the morning. I vote for him in this post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#602
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:My Original Case for JB: + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it. THE NEW MATERIAL: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok im going to make a full response to BH but first what do you mean by hedging i thought it might be a mafia term but i looked it up. And got nothing and also adam i was talking about BKEXE being a easy lynch. Can't google hedging?? Meaningless dodge attempt. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:45 jaybrundage wrote:
BH i cant even understand your post what the fuck is hedging lol. Half of your statements are me hedging someone. So plz tell me what it means Mode Dodge attempt. After this I post the definition of hedging. He ignored it. Completely COMPLETELY DODGES. The end of the day is comingup... Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. THIS ISN'T A REAL ARGUMENT. THIS IS HIM BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE KNOWS BBYTE IS TOWN. This is him setting up to be proven right and be like "lawl i'm town u guyz even though i contribute nothing and dodge like i'm a fucking agent from the matrix" LIKE IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, DON'T POST THEM 1 MINUTE AFTER THE VOT EDEADLINE. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT? THE REASON YOU WOULD WAIT IS THAT YOU DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY STOP THE VOTE BECUASE YOU ARE SUCM AND THIS IS MEANINGLESS. COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this scum scum scum
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
This post continued from the previous post due to being over 100,00 characters long.
JB is caught in the "EB isn't dead" lie.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#608
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#621
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#629
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 11:09 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Well BH time to get to your post.
It's been time for some time, JB. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Half of my posts you called Hedging. The way you post it i assumed hedging was something a mafia would do.
However as far as i can see it hedging is just stating your opinion with out stating it as a fact or a statement correct?
Well ofc this is the case so far the only person who's alignment i know is me and Bbyte.
Therefore i could state Bbyte is a town or that he was pushing a town agenda but was lurking. I would not have to say i think hes pushing a town agenda. Or it seems to me. Or any of that bullshit.
The reason i use this hedging is because i don't know anything. Everything that i state is speculation, analyze, and my thoughts on a matter.
So in the end everyplace that you said i was hedging was really just me giving my thoughts and opinions on someone. No, where you're hedging you're deliberately not making statements so you can't be accountable to them later. The fact of the matter was, where other people were making analysis and backing up their claims with evidence, you were hedging like a hedgehog. This is typical mafia play, to try to lay low and not stick out the head. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Then you bold where i stated something about breadcrumbs and WBGs play On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:
What i said
BByte-
He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte
What BH wrote
Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME.
Ok for this im going to get Bbyte's quote so we have some context. On December 04 2011 21:58 BByte wrote:Good morning afternoon, nice to get the game started. On policies: Lynch all liars and Lynch all lurkers are useful tools for hunting scum and promoting valid town discussion. Some random points:On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use. Back to reading the thread, more thoughts later. Also feel free to ask me anything, I'll be happy to discuss stuff that's not already beaten to death. Hm So i said that WBG was roleclaiming and because of his Breadcrumbs people believed him (incorrectly because he did turn out to be mafia). But as Bbyte said Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim So i agree with him. Because WBG used them to his advantage as mafia. Maybe i assumed that people would know about the game. But i dont think i did anything mafia like in this maybe just assuming something? Funny how ambiguously worded that paragraph was, that it could mean one thing or the other depending on if people called you out on it or not. You literally didn't mention, link, or QUOTE that WBG WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME. This seems like a fairly crucial detail in a game full of people who haven't played before. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Moving onYou criticize my comment that no one should get heated in the thread. Are you honestly calling that post Link Do you think that we should let our emotions guide our conversation. I was using examples but getting heated in this game is not gonna help us. I could call you out as Stupid and being idiotic for lynching a townie. But obviously even if i was pissed it would be dumb to do that. I think that we can both agree that you making a snide remark to ey about playing lol didnt help at all in finding mafia. Don't you agree? I stand by the descision to lynch Bbyte. At the time we made it, it was our best option. I also made up with ey215 very quickly after that. I'm not calling you out because I dislike you personally; I'm calling you out because you're a mafia member and by lynching you we can win this game. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On another note EB you wrote you think im scum. Plz provide a case. Or what you say is useless HAH. HAH HAH HAH. You are fully aware EB is dead and asking him for a case. Literally every townie is fully aware of this. Are you really trying to pretend you don't know the mafia shot him? Nobody's gonna buy that. There's no way you don't know the mafia shot EB. This is another lame attempt at looking town that is obviously not working. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. This is not actually a refutation of my case. QUOTE ME. QUOTE YOURSELF. Show me where you unequivocally make a solid case BEFORE THE VOTING DEADLINE PASSEd. Show me. Evidence. But there is none, right? There's no evidence becuase you're guilty. On December 07 2011 11:59 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Dude you gotta read the thread more.
I still think your hedging comment is bullshit. I gave my opinion on things. I expect to be held fully accountable for what i state. Apparently not because you're dodging. dodging hard. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol if i was fully aware EB was dead why would i ask him for his case on me. I think your just putting pressure on me becauese of this post.
...you would ask him for his case on you so you'd appear town. ._. do you really not understand what i'm saying here? I'm saying you lied. I'm saying you pretended to think EB was alive, because you wanted to appear town. But as it turns out, our heads are not made out of hard candy. Our bodies are not sturdy cardboard cylinders We are not suckers. We don't buy it. Scum. On December 07 2011 12:20 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:17 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 12:04 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 12:02 jaybrundage wrote:
But this question has to be asked if i saw the daypost why the hell would i ask EB a question who is now dead? it makes no sense if i was mafia or town. Its just a stupid thing to do. And makes me look suspicious. Ah, so because it was dumb, you must not be mafia? You can't WIFOM your way out of this. You made a gambit to look town and it backfired, bad. Nobody misses the day post. Not even you. No dude its called Occam's Razor the simplest explanation is the prolly the correct one. I didn't see EB was dead so i asked him a question. What your are doing is WIFOM. But a dumb one imo. Call it what you will i didnt see the day post. simple as that you think it's SIMPLER that you didn't see the day post, THIS DAY POST: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#597WITH THE BRIGHT RED PICTURE, THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE WHERE WE VOTE YOU, THE ONE THAT YOU'D LITERALLY HAVE TO SCROLL PAST TO SEE OUR VOTES that's the post you didn't see? For reference, outside observers: This is the post he claims he didn't notice: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:00 Forumite wrote:- Day 2 - After class the day before, some of the students felt in the mood for a party, and tagged along with ElectricBlack, one of the older students, back to his part of the dormatory. Drinks were had, and they also performed an impressive experiment involving tequila, oranges and fire. There were no major injuries, and one death. Memories of the evening went foggy after that. At the class several of the students showed the effects of a late night of heavy drinking, but what really caught everyones attention was not the state of those present, but one notable absence. Zona arrived and looked around the classroom. "Isn´t ElectricBlack here yet? Not much we can do about that, we will just have to continue the exercise without him."
ElectricBlack, the Vanilla Townie missed class and was expelled!
Day 2 ends in 48 hours, at 01:00 GMT (+00:00), or 10:00 KST the 9th of December yeah man i miss posts like tat all the time
JB caught lying about my stance on BByte
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#702
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:49 Blazinghand wrote:My response to JB re: the BByte lynch Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow.
NO. NO YOU ARE LITERALLY LYING. THAT'S NOT WHAT i CAME BACK AT YOU WITH. ARE YOU SERIOUS.
HERE IS THE REPLY POST I MADE TO YOUR POST. I MADE IT BEFORE I MADE THAT POST. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY YOU ALWAYS LEAVE OUT AND CHERRYPICK MY QUOTES OH WAIT I KNOW WHY ITS BECAUSE YOURE MAFIAShow nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam.
JB tries to hedge and insinuate and I force him to state his position, which is that I am mafia. I catch him in another inconsistency, but he claims it's sarcasm.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#710
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#716
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#719
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:58 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze Ah yes, respond to me catching you in a lie with a question. Dodge my question as well. Well, I'll answer your question: when I said "we all failed", believe it or not, "we all" includes me. I was sharing responsibility, not abdicating it. I was fighting sheeping. and I still am. So, answer me. DO YOU THINK I AM MAFIA? Say it straight out. I want you to be accountable for your opinion. On December 08 2011 04:10 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:06 jaybrundage wrote:I think you and Veli are mafia. Lol oh wait im hedging again oppsies + Show Spoiler +VELINATH AND BLAZINGHAND ARE MAFIA There ya go :D BTW that text is kind of big and obnoxious, somehow even moreso than my own. I'd like to point out another classic JB self-contradiction: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:07 jaybrundage wrote:On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro. Still Following BH LOL Is this serious? All JB seems to do is lie, misquote, and hedge. On December 08 2011 04:12 Blazinghand wrote:Caught in yet another inconsistency? Must be sarcasm.
In conclusion, JB was somewhat scummy, I voted him, and he has continually responded in a non-town fashion to the pressure. Please consider my analysis and your own and Vote JB to lynch a mafioso.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm back. For the love of christ, people, use a preview button.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Could a mod come in here and like fix these posts or something?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 14:37 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Yeah, it's a lot easier to see with the formatting that he added, it looked a lot more like original work in the first post of those 3. Thanks for the supplement.
I'm fairly certain BKEXE is bussing Jay. On the other hand, maybe he's not and he's just a shitty commentator. I'll put together my case on BKEXE...
I also think it's possible that he intentionally spammed several shitty enormous posts in a row to hide my combined and complete case against JayBrundage from the players who have just woken up. In order to combat this literal smokescreen I am going to quote myself and thereby reproduce the arguments that I posted a mere 10 posts ago but are impossible to find due to BKEXE's feigned incompetence.
So, I'm off to my final, and that's gonna keep me tied up for some time. As you can see, I faced off with JB and that is a lot of posts, so I'm gonna link to my important analysis/evidence posts for my case against JB. As the pressure has increased on him, he has lied and scumslipped quite a bit. I've assembled these links and quotes here so that it's easy to find. to prove I'm not taking stuff out of context, all the links are included so you can click through and see the truth for yourself. Open the spoilers to see the posts. My complete Case on JB being scum The original case, from last night: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=26#514+ Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it. My thoughts on the BByte lynch and my response to JB's criticism: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#594+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam. My case for JB in the morning. I vote for him in this post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#602+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:My Original Case for JB: + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it. THE NEW MATERIAL: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok im going to make a full response to BH but first what do you mean by hedging i thought it might be a mafia term but i looked it up. And got nothing and also adam i was talking about BKEXE being a easy lynch. Can't google hedging?? Meaningless dodge attempt. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:45 jaybrundage wrote:
BH i cant even understand your post what the fuck is hedging lol. Half of your statements are me hedging someone. So plz tell me what it means Mode Dodge attempt. After this I post the definition of hedging. He ignored it. Completely COMPLETELY DODGES. The end of the day is comingup... Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. THIS ISN'T A REAL ARGUMENT. THIS IS HIM BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE KNOWS BBYTE IS TOWN. This is him setting up to be proven right and be like "lawl i'm town u guyz even though i contribute nothing and dodge like i'm a fucking agent from the matrix" LIKE IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, DON'T POST THEM 1 MINUTE AFTER THE VOT EDEADLINE. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT? THE REASON YOU WOULD WAIT IS THAT YOU DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY STOP THE VOTE BECUASE YOU ARE SUCM AND THIS IS MEANINGLESS. COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this scum scum scum
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
This post continued from the previous post due to being over 100,00 characters long.JB is caught in the "EB isn't dead" lie. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#608http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#621http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#629+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 11:09 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Well BH time to get to your post.
It's been time for some time, JB. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Half of my posts you called Hedging. The way you post it i assumed hedging was something a mafia would do.
However as far as i can see it hedging is just stating your opinion with out stating it as a fact or a statement correct?
Well ofc this is the case so far the only person who's alignment i know is me and Bbyte.
Therefore i could state Bbyte is a town or that he was pushing a town agenda but was lurking. I would not have to say i think hes pushing a town agenda. Or it seems to me. Or any of that bullshit.
The reason i use this hedging is because i don't know anything. Everything that i state is speculation, analyze, and my thoughts on a matter.
So in the end everyplace that you said i was hedging was really just me giving my thoughts and opinions on someone. No, where you're hedging you're deliberately not making statements so you can't be accountable to them later. The fact of the matter was, where other people were making analysis and backing up their claims with evidence, you were hedging like a hedgehog. This is typical mafia play, to try to lay low and not stick out the head. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Then you bold where i stated something about breadcrumbs and WBGs play On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:
What i said
BByte-
He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte
What BH wrote
Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME.
Ok for this im going to get Bbyte's quote so we have some context. On December 04 2011 21:58 BByte wrote:Good morning afternoon, nice to get the game started. On policies: Lynch all liars and Lynch all lurkers are useful tools for hunting scum and promoting valid town discussion. Some random points:On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use. Back to reading the thread, more thoughts later. Also feel free to ask me anything, I'll be happy to discuss stuff that's not already beaten to death. Hm So i said that WBG was roleclaiming and because of his Breadcrumbs people believed him (incorrectly because he did turn out to be mafia). But as Bbyte said Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim So i agree with him. Because WBG used them to his advantage as mafia. Maybe i assumed that people would know about the game. But i dont think i did anything mafia like in this maybe just assuming something? Funny how ambiguously worded that paragraph was, that it could mean one thing or the other depending on if people called you out on it or not. You literally didn't mention, link, or QUOTE that WBG WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME. This seems like a fairly crucial detail in a game full of people who haven't played before. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Moving onYou criticize my comment that no one should get heated in the thread. Are you honestly calling that post Link Do you think that we should let our emotions guide our conversation. I was using examples but getting heated in this game is not gonna help us. I could call you out as Stupid and being idiotic for lynching a townie. But obviously even if i was pissed it would be dumb to do that. I think that we can both agree that you making a snide remark to ey about playing lol didnt help at all in finding mafia. Don't you agree? I stand by the descision to lynch Bbyte. At the time we made it, it was our best option. I also made up with ey215 very quickly after that. I'm not calling you out because I dislike you personally; I'm calling you out because you're a mafia member and by lynching you we can win this game. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On another note EB you wrote you think im scum. Plz provide a case. Or what you say is useless HAH. HAH HAH HAH. You are fully aware EB is dead and asking him for a case. Literally every townie is fully aware of this. Are you really trying to pretend you don't know the mafia shot him? Nobody's gonna buy that. There's no way you don't know the mafia shot EB. This is another lame attempt at looking town that is obviously not working. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. This is not actually a refutation of my case. QUOTE ME. QUOTE YOURSELF. Show me where you unequivocally make a solid case BEFORE THE VOTING DEADLINE PASSEd. Show me. Evidence. But there is none, right? There's no evidence becuase you're guilty. On December 07 2011 11:59 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Dude you gotta read the thread more.
I still think your hedging comment is bullshit. I gave my opinion on things. I expect to be held fully accountable for what i state. Apparently not because you're dodging. dodging hard. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol if i was fully aware EB was dead why would i ask him for his case on me. I think your just putting pressure on me becauese of this post.
...you would ask him for his case on you so you'd appear town. ._. do you really not understand what i'm saying here? I'm saying you lied. I'm saying you pretended to think EB was alive, because you wanted to appear town. But as it turns out, our heads are not made out of hard candy. Our bodies are not sturdy cardboard cylinders We are not suckers. We don't buy it. Scum. On December 07 2011 12:20 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:17 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 12:04 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 12:02 jaybrundage wrote:
But this question has to be asked if i saw the daypost why the hell would i ask EB a question who is now dead? it makes no sense if i was mafia or town. Its just a stupid thing to do. And makes me look suspicious. Ah, so because it was dumb, you must not be mafia? You can't WIFOM your way out of this. You made a gambit to look town and it backfired, bad. Nobody misses the day post. Not even you. No dude its called Occam's Razor the simplest explanation is the prolly the correct one. I didn't see EB was dead so i asked him a question. What your are doing is WIFOM. But a dumb one imo. Call it what you will i didnt see the day post. simple as that you think it's SIMPLER that you didn't see the day post, THIS DAY POST: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#597WITH THE BRIGHT RED PICTURE, THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE WHERE WE VOTE YOU, THE ONE THAT YOU'D LITERALLY HAVE TO SCROLL PAST TO SEE OUR VOTES that's the post you didn't see? For reference, outside observers: This is the post he claims he didn't notice: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:00 Forumite wrote:- Day 2 - After class the day before, some of the students felt in the mood for a party, and tagged along with ElectricBlack, one of the older students, back to his part of the dormatory. Drinks were had, and they also performed an impressive experiment involving tequila, oranges and fire. There were no major injuries, and one death. Memories of the evening went foggy after that. At the class several of the students showed the effects of a late night of heavy drinking, but what really caught everyones attention was not the state of those present, but one notable absence. Zona arrived and looked around the classroom. "Isn´t ElectricBlack here yet? Not much we can do about that, we will just have to continue the exercise without him."
ElectricBlack, the Vanilla Townie missed class and was expelled!
Day 2 ends in 48 hours, at 01:00 GMT (+00:00), or 10:00 KST the 9th of December yeah man i miss posts like tat all the time JB caught lying about my stance on BByte http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#702+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:49 Blazinghand wrote:My response to JB re: the BByte lynch Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow.
NO. NO YOU ARE LITERALLY LYING. THAT'S NOT WHAT i CAME BACK AT YOU WITH. ARE YOU SERIOUS.
HERE IS THE REPLY POST I MADE TO YOUR POST. I MADE IT BEFORE I MADE THAT POST. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY YOU ALWAYS LEAVE OUT AND CHERRYPICK MY QUOTES OH WAIT I KNOW WHY ITS BECAUSE YOURE MAFIAShow nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam. JB tries to hedge and insinuate and I force him to state his position, which is that I am mafia. I catch him in another inconsistency, but he claims it's sarcasm. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#710http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#716http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#719+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:58 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze Ah yes, respond to me catching you in a lie with a question. Dodge my question as well. Well, I'll answer your question: when I said "we all failed", believe it or not, "we all" includes me. I was sharing responsibility, not abdicating it. I was fighting sheeping. and I still am. So, answer me. DO YOU THINK I AM MAFIA? Say it straight out. I want you to be accountable for your opinion. On December 08 2011 04:10 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:06 jaybrundage wrote:I think you and Veli are mafia. Lol oh wait im hedging again oppsies + Show Spoiler +VELINATH AND BLAZINGHAND ARE MAFIA There ya go :D BTW that text is kind of big and obnoxious, somehow even moreso than my own. I'd like to point out another classic JB self-contradiction: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:07 jaybrundage wrote:On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro. Still Following BH LOL Is this serious? All JB seems to do is lie, misquote, and hedge. On December 08 2011 04:12 Blazinghand wrote:Caught in yet another inconsistency? Must be sarcasm. In conclusion, JB was somewhat scummy, I voted him, and he has continually responded in a non-town fashion to the pressure. Please consider my analysis and your own and Vote JB to lynch a mafioso.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I like the probabalistic way of looking at things. If your pool is "people who voted for BByte and aren't Blazinghand or Velinath" you know more about it than I do since you know your own alignment. However, entering into this argument you have walked into the territory of WIFOM and expected mafia scrutinized actions. That is where I think you make a mistak e
On December 09 2011 02:06 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 07:49 Grackaroni wrote:
Ey215 has been on every one of your bandwagons so far from Adam----> EB -----> BByte -------> JayBrundage.
@BH : Why is Ey215 one of your main town reads? I think he is just sheeping your vote. And therefor I don't think both of them are scum. xtfftc have been voting on xsksc and had him as one of those he suspects as scum throughout the game. I don't think both of them are scum. So this leads me to think that the most probable scum pairings of those in on the BByte lynch is: xsksc(Starshard)/Grackorini xsksc (Starshard)/ey215 Grackorini/xtfftc I say we should lynch anyone of these four, it would give us a high probability for actually killing a scum player.
There's a well-known mafia tactic known as "bussing" (from: to throw under the bus) in which two mafia players interact in an adversarial fashion if one of them is in danger, or just in general. For example, if BByte and EB with both mafia and the public opinion was moving to lynch BByte, EB might try to lead the charge, in order to prove himself innocent. However, for this to be believable they'd be aggressive towards each other beforehand so if either of them got in danger, they'd have a justification for bussing. "Oh, I suspected him all a long."
Mafia members, assuming they're not enormously incompetent (see: JB) will do their best to not appear to be working/voting together. You noted that it's probably a 2/1 split since they want to appear like normal voters. It stands to reason that they'd disagree and argue on other things, including each other's alignments, to appear like normal voters.
That being said, this takes nothing away from the probabilistic arguments. I just wouldn't go completely ruling out combinations like Grackaroni/ey215 or xsksc/xtfftc solely on the grounds that they got into an argument or disagreed on some issue.
Also, I'd like to hear your reasoning on the "Velinath is town" read, ideally something besides "Well he agrees with Blazinghand a lot and BH is town". Agreeing with me doesn't make you town. It's possible you've made this case and I just herped and missed it with all the JB interaction that's happened recently, so just quote yourself or link me if that's the case.
Is there a recorded final vote count for previous lynchings (day 1, day 2 etc?)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
EBWOP: xsksc is now Starshard.
Also, Tunkeg and Starshard(aka xsksc) have not voted in this election. You guys have 7 hours left. Your votes are very important, and however you vote you must justify. Granted, assuming nobody changes their votes, you can't stop the JB lynch. But I, and many others, will judge you based on the reasoning behind your vote. So if you do something dumb like say make a post like this:
Herp derp voting JB cause he's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB
or this:
Herp derp voting for random player cause JB's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB
This kind of vote and justification is anti-town. So even though it's currently 7 JB, 1 Veli, 1 ey, cast your vote like whoever you vote is literally gonna get lynched, and justify your shit.
Just a friendly reminder.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 03:44 Tunkeg wrote:
xsksc (I'll call him that until Starshard actually posts)
Starshard has made two posts so far, despite not voting. Here's his filter:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=160133
On December 07 2011 22:19 Starshard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 19:29 Adam4167 wrote:
Welcome to the party Starshard.
Finally someone around my timezone :> Thank you. Seems like the thread is pretty dead as we share different timezones with the others. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 21:53 Tunkeg wrote:
Just read up on this during lunch, and while just reading through it really fast I have to say that the case you guys are building on jay, and the reasoning behind it is thin. 3 votes allready? Was it the the kill on EB that changed your mind?Many thought my case on xsksc was thin, but this is thinner, and it allready have 3 votes.
Yeah, I think that there really isn't much reasoning behind the call for Jay's lynch, despite that, we still have time and room for discussion to come up with a better list of scum reads, I have not read through the entire thread in detail so I shall reserve my vote for now, once I get back from party and start reading the thread in detail, then I would cast my vote. I hope that others will not jump on the bandwagon without providing any form of in depth analysis. Also, keep in mind that we have 2 inactive players at the moment, it would be great if they get replaced by active individuals or start posting so that we can have more opinions.
Filler; not unreasonable filler, though, since it's basically his first post. He's catching up on reading. He makes the weird statement that he thinks there isn't much reasoning behind the JB lynch while at the same time saying that he hasn't read the thread in detail.
On December 08 2011 11:34 Starshard wrote:Posting some of my own reads. Though it is not very detailed ATM, I hope that it will be enough to get some discussion rolling. Blazinghand + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping. So hurry up.
BH brings the pressure to other players so as to generate contributions and discussion, giving himself a pro town image.On December 04 2011 13:35 Blazinghand wrote:In fact, given that most of those people are European, it's fairly likely they're asleep. I'm going to discuss our other semi-lurkers. ey215 has made a single post so far: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all! Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this. He basically says... absolutely nothing. He indicates that we need to use common sense about lies, and that we should lynch scum before lurkers if possible. That's very accurate, ey215, but it's clever how you've managed to say nothing of any import, and this is your sole post, AND you're awake (american). No substance, all fluff. Noob or Mafia? too early to tell. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? Another guy with literally 1 post that says nothing. obvious we shouldn't lynch people for misspeaking. And... of COURSE we need to figure out what to do as a group. We VOTE on the lynch. What do I think? I think you're either absurdly unhelpful or a mafioso doing a bad job of blending in. You're the same as the people who haven't posted yet, because YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING YET.
In this post, he goes after the 1post lurkers and exert pressure on the lurkers, once the lurkers start contributing, he unvote them and goes after the other lurkers.To me, BH feels like a townie, he is being very aggressive against lurkers to start getting content out of them. Without his active contribution during, we might not have enough content to form our reads, he also provides reasonable analysis so I would not consider him a mafia now. Alignment : Town Velinath + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 15:20 Velinath wrote:This is my first game as well (believe it or not), and I'm still contributing (at least, I think so). I feel like we could stand to hear more from you. As jaybrundage said, try to give some opinions. At the moment you're the best scumread I have, and given that, I'd like to hear what you have to say more than what I've heard so far. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:18 ey215 wrote:
However, we need to be careful about what we define lurking as. If it's just they never post, that's easy. If it's they post, but only a couple lines then that's more of an decision to be made through analysis. I'd rather see a few posts a day that are failry well thought out and longer than a bunch of one liners that don't mean anything. I agree, and I think the town will be able to see that especially as we start building cases. Filtering and seeing one-liners is something that raises a red flag in my eyes. He is trying to actively get other newbies to start contributing, this action benefits the town as we would be able to get more content for our reads. He also brings out a good point on the potential mafia lurkers and exert pressure on them so that they would not be able to get away with lurking and posting useless content.
On December 05 2011 23:50 Velinath wrote:Good morning. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:34 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 20:24 xsksc wrote:
What's interesting? I can't make a big post about you right now cause I'm playing SC2, I'm posting quickly inbetween games. I'll do it when I'm finished. Velinath agreed with BH's reasoning that I must be scum because I decided not to vote, He already has shown himself to be willing to be critical of the situation, so I'm not worried about him. Once he realizes my choice of not voting was actually optimal in the situation (as explained when I first started responding to the cases built while I slept), I think he will find something more productive to do. Hi! I never said you were scum. I said you were playing anti-town. There's a key difference - check out ... oh, shoot, I can't remember if it was Kenpachi or Coagulation in 46. One (or both) of them was lurking extremely hardcore, promised analysis "tomorrow" that never got there, posted a few one-liners here and there - and then they flipped town. The players in 46 didn't necessarily assume that they were scum - just not playing to the best interests of the town. I thought the same thing about you here. Now, that said, both the reasoning you posted for why you didn't post and your case on Hassy are quite good. I think if you had just said "Hey, it's 1 am here, I'll post some thougts in the morning" I think that would have been fine - time zones are things we can understand. What's happened has happened, though. ##UnvoteNow, some questions. Tunkeg posted some good content early, and now he's completely disappeared. I'd like to hear more from him, because right now he's gone from being a helpful member to lurking pretty hard for a while now. BByte still hasn't checked in despite both myself and, later, xtfftc mentioning him. I want to hear from him - he's provided minimal content including a very half-assed case on me and some sketchy analysis on ey215. This could just be lazy play but it's starting to worry me, since after voting me (posts doing so comprise almost half of his filter!) he's disappeared. I would be happy to see him lynched, especially since the two people I previously had worries about content generation have stepped up in a big way and helped out. ##Vote: BByteAdam and EB have both stepped up and provided some good analysis (and I was really impressed by EB's case. I'm going to take a closer look at Hassybaby. Calling someone "Serejai" after watching 47, even if not voting them, reeks of OMGUS as I said earlier in the thread, and is an overreaction to light pressure - plus, the bandwagoning is, as noted here in addition to your case, a matter for some concern. Headed to class but I should be able to keep an eye on the thread. He shares the details of an old game and what we could learn from it. He is actively going after anti-town and lurkers to get them to contribute and create a better town atmosphere, although he has some filler post, i feel that he is pro town.Alignment : Town jaybrundage + Show Spoiler +Now lets move on to the poor guy jay who is getting targeted. On December 07 2011 13:10 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol BH you don't get it. I was on page 26 the entire time typing my response.
While the New day post was on page 30 is it really that hard to understand.
I posted what i had to say about your post for me and then looked over the new posts.
If you dont believe me great i said i cant prove it. You act like this was a scum slip. When i just hadn't seen the day post.
Regardless i want to get more input from people before i start typing a case. Adam is still might have my vote but lets see what new information the new day brings It seems like some of the aggression came from jay not keeping up with the new day post. He could lying about it but it might also be true. However , his next post came into my mind + Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:Well so after rereading alot. And going through lots of filters. I have my thoughts on who i think is mafia. Try to have a open mind tho. So at the start of the game BH has been a leading factor for this game. Because of this and his very aggressive playstyle people began to follow him. He the closest you can come to confirmed townie. And because of this people began sheeping to him. One of these people almost to a dot has been Veli. The first person that noticed this trend was Adam. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:
My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target.
You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
Who then got voted for by BH first shortly followed by Veli. I did participate on the vote with adam however i gave my own reasoning. Instead of just hoping on the bandwagon. Veli has had filler posts the entire game. following BH lead almost the entire game hear are some examples. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:24 Velinath wrote:
EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:34 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand, that's a good point. It looks like all of the people who have not posted are probably doing so because of time zones.
As such, I'm dropping my vote (assuming I'm formatting properly!) and will put it back on if one of our four "lurkers" hasn't posted in the next 12-16 hours.
##Unvote: BByte Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi,
this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 08:53 Velinath wrote:
On Adam4167:
So far, two posts. I can see why everyone's suspicious of him - he made a mistake in attacking the most vocal (and, in some people's minds, most pro-town) player. That said, I feel like it could be just defensiveness to BH's style. I'll have to wait for more posts, but for now he's just made my watchlist.
Alot of Veli's post where filler and have been following BH in almost everycase. The other big factor to my case is the mislynch of Bbyte. I do agree that he was lurking a good bit. However what was one of is contribitions. Well lets look back. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:20 BByte wrote:My strongest scum read so far is Velinath. He has been active (very much so actually), but what has he contributed? Some policy discussion, a bit of finger pointing (mostly to spark activity), some fluff. Mostly he has been following other people's ideas, not making his own calls. All of this is something scum could easily do with very little risk.Then there are a couple of posts of light analysis. His "reads post" sums it up best: + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. BroodKingEXE: Empty post. Worries me.Feels scummy but could be a noob. Amend: Six posts that don't sit right with me, but again, could be new player. xkskc: Leaning town for now. Started our policy discussion. Discussion is good. While he disagrees with BH's methods, I clearly feel like he's playing a townie game right now. Different methodolgy, same goal. To note, he pointed out that there may be mafia in the group leadership., which should be something to keep in mind. Question is whether it's sowing suspicion or genuine pro-town, and I haven't figured that out yet. xtfftc: Null read. He argued against LAL and LALurkers, and I don't wanna go with that. Let's look again once he posts again. (Amend: Looked through his filter to update this post, and I really liked his post here. Still a null read, but this feels positive to me.) ey215: Pointed out some good things. He sees Blazinghand's methods as creating tension within the town, and that's fine - he's entitled to opinion. Like xkskc, he disagrees with methods but seems to be working towards the same goal. Their discussion, while heated, really brought out to me that they both seem very town-aligned, and willing to take positions and defend them. EB: Makes good points. At this point I'm leaning town, simply because he's pro-discussion this early. That said I'd love to see more posts here. Tunkeg: Posted his reads, and is encouraging discussion. I think this is a good thing, and might peg him as one of the influential voices in the town soon. Largely a null read, but I'm starting to lean town. BByte: I'm not totally impressed yet. One post about breadcrumbs (which is more about the game in general than a content post) and one post about a couple of the players. That post was good, and I agree that we shouldn't be intimidated by one person, but I'd like to see more. jaybrundage: Neutral for now, but a lack of content disturbs me. We've still got like 30 hours though. Adam4167: Two posts, neither of which hugely impress me. I liked how he went through and stated a clear opinion on BH's play. While I disagree with his opinion, I think that the way he put things is pro-town in that post. I'd love to see more content here, but so far looks pretty good. Hassybaby: Disagrees with early targets, and I can see why. I think he is overly defensive towards Tunkeg - not an OMGUS vote, but definitely that kind of idea. Not sure what to think, but this early just a null read. Grackaroni: Posted reads, but before that there's a bunch of policy posts. Not that I haven't made a ton of policy posts too, but I'll wait for more content. Null read. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:18 BByte wrote:Okay, back home and (re-)reading the thread. Boy did I pick up a bad day to be AFK. First note: There's a reason a day lasts 48 hours. The first vote on me was made 9 hours ago, roughly 10 hours before the lynch deadline. Second note: I stand by my earlier statement: There are no real lurkers in this game. Instead of voting based on activity, I'd prefer a vote based on the actual content of the posts. For the people who are voting me: In case there are any specific questions that you'd like for me to answer, please post them and I'll give what answers I can. Whether my answers will be enough to convince you to vote someone else is up to you. On December 06 2011 00:31 Velinath wrote:Alright, that's fair Grack - but let's look at BByte. He posts once a few times 17 hours ago, comes back 8 hours ago to post one thing. He states in the thread that he'd post thoughts if needed, but he hasn't done that - a couple sentences here or there. I did however state that I'd be extremely busy with work today. It's only 9 hours since the first vote on me. That's not really enough time to expect someone to be able to answer. On December 06 2011 03:35 Blazinghand wrote:
As you can see, he's got a vote on velinath, and hasn't made a serious argument. Velinath's arguments on his scumlist might have been vague, but since then, velinath has made a liberal outpouring of posts and BByte remains silent. I don't know who's mafia, but I know we need more commitment than that out of our townies, and BByte's soft case and small vote count make it seem like he's hiding something. How exactly is my vote suspicious? I posted my read (which was against pretty much everyone else, is that mafia behavior?) and I perhaps didn't articulate my case as well as I should have, but what am I hiding? For my activity see above and my previous posts. I also find weird from a quick skim through the posts since the last I've read the thread that no one has actually even commented on the actual content of my accusation on Velinath. What do people think about his posting, especially up to the point I accused him? Was / am I sure he's scum? No, but at least my vote was based on a read instead of a non-read. The post I made about the case was perhaps "half-assed" in hindsight. I did spend a lot of time reading and analyzing, but not enough time in forming my case to a coherent post. Also I didn't use nearly enough quotes. And he gets tagged team by the duo of Veli and BH. He tries to post to defend himself. Tries to show that what he did wasn't scummy. He posted his reads more then some of the people in this thread. After he knows that he is gonna get lynched he posts this. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:59 BByte wrote:
Okay, so it seems I'm about to be lynched. Unfortunately I was pretty much MIA today, and wasn't able to respond to the case (or lack thereof) made against me.
I've tried to post honestly and openly. What I've said so far I still think is pro-town. Apart from that, I'd like the town to note two additional people:
Blazinghand: He has been very active and vocal so far. That paints him as town. However, he could have made all the posts nearly as easily if he were scum. To the townies: Please hold him up to the high standard he has presented so far. He still might be scum, just well hidden in plain sight. He was also the second guy to vote for my lynch.
xtfftc: Some scum vibes off him, not enough time to post an actual case. He posted a case on Veli and was soon voted for by BH and ofc Veli followed like he always does. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli. Also remember the sharade that happened with EB. He was going to post a reason why hassybaby was a lynch candadite and did not want to put his vote in because he did not have time to write it up ( he did not say this at the time) But BH could not stand someone stand up to him. He went out and called him anti town and wanted everyone to vote him. This is one part Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:01 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night. Ladies and gentlemen, case closed. EB's just trying to spite me? Trying to spite THE TOWN? We need him out. He's worse than a lurker. Look how it went for trying to spite BH to spiting the town. EB was not spiting the town he was doing it because BH was being pushy and a bully and he would not stand for it. So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow. Also as a side note. After BH posts his case on me ofc Veli follows like he always does. With no real content of his own. The funniest part is that he even states im not his strongest scum read. But he follows BH like he always does. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:37 Velinath wrote:
Hi Blazing. My best scumread is still Hassybaby right now, as per my comment from the middle of Day 1 (after EB posted that he would post a case the next morning) and later, EB's case that went through the points I made as well as additional points. That said, I'm reluctant to push him as a lynch target until he gets replaced and his replacement shows up - or he comes back from AFK, one of the two. This is my case I would suggest everyone go back and reread with this is mind and look at how Bbyte was Mislynched. Thank you for your time I would be open to vote for either as i think there both scum Veli or BH For now im voting for Veli because thats who BByte wanted to lynch and he ended up getting mislynched. ##Vote Velinath Alignment : Null Thats it for now, I have to go grab some sleep. As a replacement I find it hard to catch up but I will still try to contribute. I'm new so I hope I did ok. Edit: Gl for your finals!
Posts town reads for me and Vel, and a null read for JB, asking for more information.
He edits his post to wish me good luck and gets warned for it, then rides off into the sunset, never to be seen again. So far he hasn't really committed on anything or said much of value. Actually, come to think of it, he's lurking. If I didn't have a scumread on JB I'd be going after him. However, lynching scum > lynching lurkers.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 03:52 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:50 Blazinghand wrote:EBWOP: xsksc is now Starshard. Also, Tunkeg and Starshard(aka xsksc) have not voted in this election. You guys have 7 hours left. Your votes are very important, and however you vote you must justify. Granted, assuming nobody changes their votes, you can't stop the JB lynch. But I, and many others, will judge you based on the reasoning behind your vote. So if you do something dumb like say make a post like this: Herp derp voting JB cause he's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB or this: Herp derp voting for random player cause JB's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB This kind of vote and justification is anti-town. So even though it's currently 7 JB, 1 Veli, 1 ey, cast your vote like whoever you vote is literally gonna get lynched, and justify your shit. Just a friendly reminder. I will vote, don't worry. I want to see if any of the cases on one of the four I mentioned in my post before is going to get pushed. But I don't see me voting for jaybrundage, I am not sold on his case. Only reason I will be voting for him is if it looks like it will be a close race between two candidates, and I read the other candidate as more town.
Oh that's fine. I don't care how you vote (I mean, I do, I want you to vote JB, but in that paragraph I'm talking in general), I'm just hoping that you justify your vote. Anyone who has voted without sufficiently justifying it (velinath?) will face scrutiny from me tonight.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 03:53 xtfftc wrote:
I like parts of this post - especially the xsksc+EY bit, although I would have to seriously consider one of them being town if Jay and BKE are both red - but focusing exclussively on voting patterns is dangerous.
Just as a note, if both JB and BKEXE are red, it's literally impossible for both xsksc and EY to be red, since there are 3 mafia in this game. I think you'd have to literally admit that one of the two of them is town if both JB and BKEXE are red. A nitpick! Yes! A nitpick but an important one since if we're going to think about who's where, etc, you gotta remember there are three mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
The two players I'm most suspicious of are BKE and and xskxc aka Starshard. The problem is, Starshard has gone lurker on us. if he doesn't vote, he may be modkilled for inactivity. I don't have a good read on EY.
Given that EY and xsksc is on both your lists, if you could take a look at them that would be great. I'd stick to EY though just because STarshard/xsksc might get replaced by yet another player and hasn't made many contributions recently.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
By the way, Tunkeg, who are you going to vote for?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well.
Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB.
Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711
On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough.
Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging.
A page later:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724
On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay.
This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum)
Finally, talking to ey215
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729
On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day.
It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing.
Where do you stand?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
There are still 5 hours left to the voting deadline. I hope to hear XTF's stance on JB.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 04:53 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:33 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well. Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB. Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
My Original Case for JB: On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
THE NEW MATERIAL: Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough. Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging. A page later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay. This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum) Finally, talking to ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day. It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing. Where do you stand? I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE)
So, you consider Jay more likely to be scum than not, or more likely to be sum than someone in particular? Just more likely than Adam?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:33 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Tunkeg i would like your input on my case against Veli and BH In closing I have a question to Velinath and Blazinghand: You two led the lynch on BByte, now you are leading the lynch on jaybrundage. If this is also a misslynch can you see how this will lead the rest of us to be suspicious towards you? Is your reads on jaybrundage strong enough that you are willing to put your head on the block for it? If not, do you think it is fair that you two are tunneling so hard on him?
I know I've already responded to this but I thought I'd just add something: In the immeasurably unlikely event that JB somehow flips town, I would characterize it as "profoundly unwise" to lynch me with that as the sole reason, simply because after Night 2 we'll be down to 9 players-- 6 town, 3 mafia-- and if we waste day 3 killing me, by day 4 it will be 4 town, 3 mafia (unless we have a medic, he lives, and he saves someone somewhere).
I'm repeatedly stressed that people need to think carefully about their JB votes. I personally believe he is obvious scum. But I challenge every person in this game to think for themselves whenever possible. It's players like xtffc, tunkeg, etc, who are willing to sink time into serious analysis of players, who will ultimately win this game. I do a decent job of producing evidence and pressuring people, but this is just one part of the equation. If people want to just vote with me, so be it-- I will hunt down and kill every mafia member personally on the strength of my own analysis should that be required.
But I also want everyone who votes to justify their vote and explain their reasoning as much as possible before the deadline. I'd personally appreciate it if everyone who didn't vote for JB also justified why they're NOT convinced by their case on JB (again, before the deadline). The reason I say this is that the mafia have an enormously difficult time doing this, since they know whether or not any individual player is town, and asking for analysis and justification like this with every vote puts a lot of pressure on them and gives them opportunities to be human, and make mistakes.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:10 xtfftc wrote:
Looking at him as an individual, he is one of the three scummiest (along with EY and xsk), so I consider him more likely to be mafia than not. Looking at him in the context of the potential mafia teams I see, I find his team (Jay, BKE, and one of xsk/EY) more likely than the alternative (xsk/EY/Adam).
I see. So you think he's solidly scummy, and you have some potential teams you think he is a part of. However, you consider ey215 to be scummier, which is why your vote is on ey215. Is this an accurate representation of your views?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it.
You mention there are some non-covered bits. Are those non-covered bits covered in this quote? Any particular bits you want to add? I understand that I'm badgering but you happen to be around and it's always good to get people's positions nailed down.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:45 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:47 Tunkeg wrote:On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game. It wasn't me it was Adam: On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Thanks Tunk, been a bit in and out and hadn't had time to find the post.
So what do you think of BKEXE's largely illegible posts? I initially believed that they were a literal figurative smokescreen to push my analysis off of the front page and make it hard for people to find my summary post. However, they're so poorly formatted it's possible he just couldn't find the preview button. Still, I think he was scum trying to literally cover JB.
Good analysis or bad, and why?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Overall this looks like a pretty solid case but I do have a difference of opinion here
On December 09 2011 07:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote:
While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
I'm fine with applying some pressure.
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack You don't pressure people by telling them you're pressuring them. As soon as you say that something is just a pressure vote, you make it obvious that you don't plan to stick with it and thus you make your vote worthless. This is typical non-commital mafia play. Not to mention that EY makes sure to excuse himself from all possible blame before saying whatever he plans to.
I caused enough people to flip out by pressuring them that I'm fairly sure it's effective, even if they know I'll unvote them if they do XYZ. HE DOES seem to be abdicating responsibility for his vote as he makes it, though, and trying to place it on me. I'm going to wait to see JB's flip because 1) I'm very anxious and 2) I want to write some balling posts.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:14 jaybrundage wrote:
Well looks like im about to be lynched.
Sorry i have been a bit inactive recently.
Another mislynch sad state for town
If you're a townie, I swear to god, you are the worst town player ever. The constant lies, the constant evasion, the constant hedging... ._. In fact, if you're mafia you're still a terrible player since the constant hedging and lying gets caught fairly easily. At the very least, assuming you ARE town, you're still alive for another 3 hours, right? Slap down some analysis and thoughts on the various posters here-- when you flip town people won't have any reason to doubt your motivation.
You've got 3 hours left to live.
If you're mafia, you can ignore this post since even if you spend the 3 hours trolling, nobody will care when you flip mafia.
If you're townie, you can still win this game. You still have 3 hours. Make them count.
Go through people's filters, of people you think are town, or scum. Make analysis. Make posts. If you're townie, in 3 hours you won't be able to post any more but in three hours you're a confirmed townie. Do everything you can to out the mafia members and clear the people who are innocent. If you're a DT or Watcher, indicate the results of your investigation right before you get lynched, that way when you flip DT/Watcher we'll know what's up.
If you're town-aligned, there is still much you can do. Please, if you are town-- do everything you can to help town win this game. You've played shitty so far, but use these last 3 hours to redeem yourself.
And if you're mafia, know that I will find the other two, and you will lose this game, and there's nothing more you can do to stop me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:15 jaybrundage wrote:
Oh and i think grack is town
On December 09 2011 07:17 jaybrundage wrote:
And BH is obvious mafia
Post analysis! You have 3 hours to live! CONVINCE PEOPLE.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:20 Blazinghand wrote:Post analysis! You have 3 hours to live! CONVINCE PEOPLE.
Of course, if you're mafia, you're just going to spend the remainder of your life trolling. But I've made my point; in the inconceivable possibility that you are town, try to help out before you die.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:45 Grackaroni wrote:
You have a bunch of quotes from me asking people questions. I sincerely want to know why players like Tunkeg and BH continually think that you are town.
Continually? I was unaware that I had an ongoing position of EY being town. I also thing I explicitly asked someone to do analysis on him.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:05 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:21 Blazinghand wrote:
ey215, you're on the list of people I have a town read on. Could you look into xtsc/tunkeg debate a bit? I need to read up on it as well, but getting a solid read in there would also be good.
Also, I can't throw out the possibility that Veli is bussing JB. I'll be examining his posting as well. If you could help with this that would be great.
Replacement people: please try to get posting. We need you guys to develop a presence in the game asap. This is where I got that you felt that Ey215 was town
Yeah at the time I had a town read, but there's been some very compelling evidence posted AGAINST a town read on ey215 in the past 28 hours.
As of as recently as 4 hours ago, I changed my mind; I no longer have a good read on EY:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=40#792
On December 09 2011 04:08 Blazinghand wrote:
The two players I'm most suspicious of are BKE and and xskxc aka Starshard. The problem is, Starshard has gone lurker on us. if he doesn't vote, he may be modkilled for inactivity. I don't have a good read on EY.
Given that EY and xsksc is on both your lists, if you could take a look at them that would be great. I'd stick to EY though just because STarshard/xsksc might get replaced by yet another player and hasn't made many contributions recently.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:07 Grackaroni wrote:
It was exaggerating though, that may have been the only time you said that but it was recent.
Yes, 28 hours ago I had a town read on ey. However, since then, I have read people's analysis and no longer have a town read on ey. Believe it or not, I change my mind based on evidence that is presented to me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt.
HAH. If anybody was flagrant enough to do a last-minute mass voteswitch, they'd clearly be mafia. There are 11 voters in the game, so a majority is 6, meaning that minimum 2 people who justified their case would have to hop off the JB wagon AND JB would have the change his vote.
And if the mafia were the flagrant, they'd just shoot me tonight-- I'd never cast another vote.
Last minute unjustified mass voteswitch is anti-town.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:26 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. HAH. If anybody was flagrant enough to do a last-minute mass voteswitch, they'd clearly be mafia. There are 11 voters in the game, so a majority is 6, meaning that minimum 2 people who justified their case would have to hop off the JB wagon AND JB would have the change his vote. And if the mafia were the flagrant, they'd just shoot me tonight-- I'd never cast another vote. Last minute unjustified mass voteswitch is anti-town.
In fact, why would you even suggest that your lynching today is a possibility? o_O
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:27 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:26 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. HAH. If anybody was flagrant enough to do a last-minute mass voteswitch, they'd clearly be mafia. There are 11 voters in the game, so a majority is 6, meaning that minimum 2 people who justified their case would have to hop off the JB wagon AND JB would have the change his vote. And if the mafia were the flagrant, they'd just shoot me tonight-- I'd never cast another vote. Last minute unjustified mass voteswitch is anti-town. In fact, why would you even suggest that your lynching today is a possibility? o_O The math: We're currently at 8 - 3 They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3 Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3. Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
OK, so I understand the first paragraph: If we mislynch and they shoot someone there will be 6 townies, 3 mafia the next dya, and if it happens again, it will be 4 townies, 3 mafia.
The 2nd paragaph states that... if we lynch jay and he flips scum... and they shoot someone... they still have 3 alive somehow?
????
Also, I could see why "we lynch a townie" is bad, but you still haven't answered why you think it's even possible that you could be lynched. Even if there are two mafias voting for Jay and they BOTH change their vote to you, Jay still has more votes for him than you.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Current Votes:
jaybrundage (7): Blazinghand, Adam4167, Velinath, ey215, BroodKingEXE, Grackaroni, Bluelightz
ey215 (2): xtfftc, Tunkeg
Velinath (1): jaybrundage
Hypothetically, JB could change his vote to you, AND Star could come back and vote for you, AND two people could switch their votes from JB to you. This would cause you to go up to 6 votes and JB to go down to 5, and would require the cooperation of four (4) people, when there are currently 3 mafia in the game, and make it painfully obvious who mafia was.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:44 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
Why is your math so doom and gloom? Its also incorrect. In your second scenario: Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I assume "Jay is scum" means "we hang Jay and he flips red". That means we go down to 7 - 2. Then you discount us from finding scum on day 3 with BKEXE a prime target after jay flipping scum. If there aren't any surprises with our lynchings we're 6 - 1 heading into Day 4. Hardly as bad a scenario as you're making it out to be here.
Yeah I dunno what his deal is.
Btw, JB, you've got an hour left to live. Any last words? If you're going to flip town, I hope the reason you've been absent from the thread is that you're writing an epic enormous post of all your analysis (!!!!)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:50 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:41 Blazinghand wrote:
Current Votes:
jaybrundage (7): Blazinghand, Adam4167, Velinath, ey215, BroodKingEXE, Grackaroni, Bluelightz
ey215 (2): xtfftc, Tunkeg
Velinath (1): jaybrundage
Hypothetically, JB could change his vote to you, AND Star could come back and vote for you, AND two people could switch their votes from JB to you. This would cause you to go up to 6 votes and JB to go down to 5, and would require the cooperation of four (4) people, when there are currently 3 mafia in the game, and make it painfully obvious who mafia was. I recognize how persuasive Xtfftc has been and will continue to attempt to be. If he had gotten you to change his vote a few hours ago I do think I could have been lynched today, hence why you got my post on him and Grackaroni. I wanted to give as much information as possible for town to go off of when I flip town. After that I lost track of time, had no idea how close we were to deadline.
Ah. Well, I have no idea whether you're town or mafia, but I've got a pretty solid read on JB being mafia. There are 6 people for whom this is the same. Judging by the vote count, there are two people voting for you. I wouldn't worry too much.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:47 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:44 Adam4167 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
Why is your math so doom and gloom? Its also incorrect. In your second scenario: Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I assume "Jay is scum" means "we hang Jay and he flips red". That means we go down to 7 - 2. Then you discount us from finding scum on day 3 with BKEXE a prime target after jay flipping scum. If there aren't any surprises with our lynchings we're 6 - 1 heading into Day 4. Hardly as bad a scenario as you're making it out to be here. You really think it's going to be BKEXE tomorrow? I don't, I think it's going to be me. Xtfftc has pretty much persuaded at least one non mafia.
Or he's persuaded one mafia. Maybe Xtfftc is town and Tunkeg is mafia? Think flexibly :D
Plus, if the mafia wants you dead, they have very effecient ways of killing people, I hear.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:56 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:54 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:47 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:44 Adam4167 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:32 ey215 wrote:
The math:
We're currently at 8 - 3
They get me today and someone tonight we're at 6 - 3
Two more townies Day/night 3 and it's 4-3.
Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3
Two more townies 5 - 3
I actually think today/tonight is pretty damn important.
Why is your math so doom and gloom? Its also incorrect. In your second scenario: Jay is scum, they get one tonight 7 - 3 Two more townies 5 - 3 I assume "Jay is scum" means "we hang Jay and he flips red". That means we go down to 7 - 2. Then you discount us from finding scum on day 3 with BKEXE a prime target after jay flipping scum. If there aren't any surprises with our lynchings we're 6 - 1 heading into Day 4. Hardly as bad a scenario as you're making it out to be here. You really think it's going to be BKEXE tomorrow? I don't, I think it's going to be me. Xtfftc has pretty much persuaded at least one non mafia. Or he's persuaded one mafia. Maybe Xtfftc is town and Tunkeg is mafia? Think flexibly :D Plus, if the mafia wants you dead, they have very effecient ways of killing people, I hear. Hear that on the mafia QT? o_0 I kid, I kid.
I left out one other possibility: you ARE mafia, and people are on to you, and you're looking for a way to look town. o_0
On December 09 2011 08:55 Bluelightz wrote:
Since Grackaroni brought up the topic for the next day lynch,
My guesses are
BKEXE/jay
any other guesses?
I don't think jay is a good lynch target for tomorrow, since we're killing him in 1 hour.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 08:58 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:53 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:50 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:41 Blazinghand wrote:
Current Votes:
jaybrundage (7): Blazinghand, Adam4167, Velinath, ey215, BroodKingEXE, Grackaroni, Bluelightz
ey215 (2): xtfftc, Tunkeg
Velinath (1): jaybrundage
Hypothetically, JB could change his vote to you, AND Star could come back and vote for you, AND two people could switch their votes from JB to you. This would cause you to go up to 6 votes and JB to go down to 5, and would require the cooperation of four (4) people, when there are currently 3 mafia in the game, and make it painfully obvious who mafia was. I recognize how persuasive Xtfftc has been and will continue to attempt to be. If he had gotten you to change his vote a few hours ago I do think I could have been lynched today, hence why you got my post on him and Grackaroni. I wanted to give as much information as possible for town to go off of when I flip town. After that I lost track of time, had no idea how close we were to deadline. Ah. Well, I have no idea whether you're town or mafia, but I've got a pretty solid read on JB being mafia. There are 6 people for whom this is the same. Judging by the vote count, there are two people voting for you. I wouldn't worry too much. I think what really made the case fully was today. I noticed on one of the stickied threads that once your nailed as scum to basically don't say anything or nothing of substance so as to deny further information. Pretty much sums him up.
Assuming he's read the stickies, of course; he played a pretty bad game as mafia, so it's not unreasonable to postulate he could just be an incredibly bad townie. He's probably not, but who knows to what depths someone who claims he missed the day post will sink!
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 08:58 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:53 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 08:50 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 08:41 Blazinghand wrote:
Current Votes:
jaybrundage (7): Blazinghand, Adam4167, Velinath, ey215, BroodKingEXE, Grackaroni, Bluelightz
ey215 (2): xtfftc, Tunkeg
Velinath (1): jaybrundage
Hypothetically, JB could change his vote to you, AND Star could come back and vote for you, AND two people could switch their votes from JB to you. This would cause you to go up to 6 votes and JB to go down to 5, and would require the cooperation of four (4) people, when there are currently 3 mafia in the game, and make it painfully obvious who mafia was. I recognize how persuasive Xtfftc has been and will continue to attempt to be. If he had gotten you to change his vote a few hours ago I do think I could have been lynched today, hence why you got my post on him and Grackaroni. I wanted to give as much information as possible for town to go off of when I flip town. After that I lost track of time, had no idea how close we were to deadline. Ah. Well, I have no idea whether you're town or mafia, but I've got a pretty solid read on JB being mafia. There are 6 people for whom this is the same. Judging by the vote count, there are two people voting for you. I wouldn't worry too much. I think what really made the case fully was today. I noticed on one of the stickied threads that once your nailed as scum to basically don't say anything or nothing of substance so as to deny further information. Pretty much sums him up. Assuming he's read the stickies, of course; he played a pretty bad game as mafia, so it's not unreasonable to postulate he could just be an incredibly bad townie. He's probably not, but who knows to what depths someone who claims he missed the day post will sink!
I still can't believe he claimed to miss the day post. Like, I... it's such bad play either way. What the hell kind of mafia player pretends he misses the day post. What the hell kind of town player misses the day post? What if, via some horrible tragedy, he was a mafia player AND he honestly missed the day post, compounding bad upon bad!?
Like, when he claimed he missed it, I went to reddit and found the jackie chan "wtf" photo. I didn't post it, but I was considering an image-macro response to his statement that he didn't notice the day post.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Nonononono there's no "taking" anyone. People here will make cases and do their best to support them. It's also possible that Grackaroni and I are both town, you know. There's no following anyone to the end of any earth. Please gentlemen go about your business and form reasoned opinions ._.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:25 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:19 Blazinghand wrote:
Nonononono there's no "taking" anyone. People here will make cases and do their best to support them. It's also possible that Grackaroni and I are both town, you know. There's no following anyone to the end of any earth. Please gentlemen go about your business and form reasoned opinions ._. Don't worry, I know where my vote's going Day 3.
Well, you don't know. Maybe someone will present a good case for someone else, and you, being an open-minded and reasonable individual, will consider it! Or maybe your target will get shot by the mafia! Things happen.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:33 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:24 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 09:21 Grackaroni wrote:On December 09 2011 09:17 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 09:10 Grackaroni wrote:On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. So you would rather follow BH to the end of the earth? a LOT of people sheeped him day1 which is just too dangerous. People were considering him a confirmed townie and if he was scum the game would be hopeless. BH or you? I take BH. I wasn't pointing out whether you were right or wrong on the sheeping. I was pointing out that there was a groundwork being laid to get him lynched if there is a doctor and they managed to save him (if he's town) tonight. Don't use me against him, if you think he's mafia go make your case. I didn't say one time in that quote that BH was mafia. Is this the only post you have for me "laying out my groundwork to lynch him after I fail to shoot him." BH is amazing at making analysis posts and secured a spot early as the town leader. Naturally people began to sheep him which I felt was dangerous because there are no confirmed towns. Build a real case against me. What you are saying is hypothetical, that my post telling people to make their own opinions and to not sheep BH because there are no confirmed townies is groundwork for lynching him. Real case on you posted above. You saw it, wrote it off and moved on. Not my fault you're choosing to ignore it. You're right I did see your "real case". You said that I was asking other's opinions in order to incriminate people. You said that I posted something against you around the same timeframe that xtfftc did. then you made up some bullshit about me plotting to lynch BH day3.
Use quotes. Cite where he did this, and you'll seem super reasonable and well-thought out rather than angry and arguing.
On December 09 2011 09:32 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:26 Grackaroni wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. As you can see I can take a random quote from your filter and make the same case against you quite easily. You are saying that Blazinghand is attacking newbies by asking them for their opinions. You make an argument that it is perfectly fine for you to sheep other people. (which you have done all game long) He is slapping newbies around and discouraging others from posting - you are saying he is anti-town. Ah yes, but the case made about me isn't about me laying the groundwork for future lynches. It's about how I'm apparently scummy. The case I made about you/xtfftc is about how the groundwork for the case about me was actually laid out in Day 1 when I was looking like a much bigger threat to the mafia than I am now. And it's not a hypothetical, it was a prediction. It's also a way to stop you from doing to him what is being done to me without being accountable for it..
Quotes. use quotes. cite where he's acting like this and you'll seem super reasonable and not flamey.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:39 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 09:25 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 09:19 Blazinghand wrote:
Nonononono there's no "taking" anyone. People here will make cases and do their best to support them. It's also possible that Grackaroni and I are both town, you know. There's no following anyone to the end of any earth. Please gentlemen go about your business and form reasoned opinions ._. Don't worry, I know where my vote's going Day 3. Well, you don't know. Maybe someone will present a good case for someone else, and you, being an open-minded and reasonable individual, will consider it! Or maybe your target will get shot by the mafia! Things happen. Trying to get me to hedge?
Hedging =/= open-minded.
So, who are you planning on voting for on Day 3?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Grack what's your read on xtfftc?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
BKEXE I'm sorry, could you rephrase that? I want to know what assumption it is you're addressing.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:45 ey215 wrote:No, my case on you is... Show nested quote +I believe these two have been working together from the outset and the only side that could coordinate like that is mafia. That I may find further evidence of it is not trying to get anyone to do anything.
Who is "these two"
Also, if you find further evidence of it, please do present it! I'd be glad to investigate as well.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:51 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For anyone who thinks I am mafia, because jay is. Think about it, if I kill off jay I would only have one other teamate left, if you think I am mafia for this reason I would be killed as well. This leaves one mafia member to convince everyone else that they are not mafia. The mafia that you are suspecting me to be in would have to have a player so experienced he could take out 6 other players over the course of three days. How does this make sense? I think you guys backed yourself into this shitty position by being too comfortable on day 1. Your team mate, who has done a much better job of staying hidden thus far, is probably reaming you in the QT for dumping the monumental task of killing 6 townies on his own, with 2 blues (if they live that long) still in the mix. Lets not get ahead of ourselves though. Jay hangs in 20 minutes (tick tock..).
Yeah It's pretty clear JB isn't town. If he were, he would have posted his final analysis by now.
After he flips scum I'll spend some serious time doing a monster analysis of everyone before the night ends. There's a 1/3rd chance we don't have a doctor, and if that's the case, the mafia know the setup, so I'm gonna get shot. They'll have BKEXE do the shot so the watcher learns nothing. That being said, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we have a doctor.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:56 Grackaroni wrote:
His timing is wierd though, he held off on posting the case until it seemed like Jay was completely fucked. If Jay flips scum it is definitely possible that he was trying to divert votes off of Jay, because this was his first agressive case.
Was there a particular piece of evidence that he posted his case right after seeing? Or could he have posted it earlier?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 09:57 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:48 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 09:45 ey215 wrote:No, my case on you is... I believe these two have been working together from the outset and the only side that could coordinate like that is mafia. That I may find further evidence of it is not trying to get anyone to do anything. Who is "these two" Also, if you find further evidence of it, please do present it! I'd be glad to investigate as well. xtfftc and Grackaroni I'll grant Grackaroni's premise that the part about laying the groundwork for you is hypothetical, but I weighed waiting to say something until it happens against saying something now against one another and deduced I wouldn't likely be around to make the case if they made one on you. To check out what I was saying you need to go back and start reading at Day 1 and assume I'm town. I'm not asking you to keep that assumption, but if I'm town you can see where they were trying to lead the discussion onto me. Then look at Day 2 and when they really went for it. Xtfftc committed to it and Grackaroni kind of nudged to try to get others going on it. You also need to read it in context, using the filters exclusively isn't the best for it.
Do you have quotes? If not, I'll do this research, but if you had quotes + links that'd be sweet.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:00 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:55 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 09:51 Adam4167 wrote:On December 09 2011 09:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For anyone who thinks I am mafia, because jay is. Think about it, if I kill off jay I would only have one other teamate left, if you think I am mafia for this reason I would be killed as well. This leaves one mafia member to convince everyone else that they are not mafia. The mafia that you are suspecting me to be in would have to have a player so experienced he could take out 6 other players over the course of three days. How does this make sense? I think you guys backed yourself into this shitty position by being too comfortable on day 1. Your team mate, who has done a much better job of staying hidden thus far, is probably reaming you in the QT for dumping the monumental task of killing 6 townies on his own, with 2 blues (if they live that long) still in the mix. Lets not get ahead of ourselves though. Jay hangs in 20 minutes (tick tock..). Yeah It's pretty clear JB isn't town. If he were, he would have posted his final analysis by now. After he flips scum I'll spend some serious time doing a monster analysis of everyone before the night ends. There's a 1/3rd chance we don't have a doctor, and if that's the case, the mafia know the setup, so I'm gonna get shot. They'll have BKEXE do the shot so the watcher learns nothing. That being said, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we have a doctor. You have to remember though that there is at least one of a doctor/watcher, either one of them would be targeting you. I highly doubt that mafia would be willing to attack you because it risks a no-kill or trading a mafia member for you.
Right, but the mafia knows which 2 blues we have, remember? So it's a 1/3rd chance that the layout is watcher/doctor, and if one of them is BKEXE and they're worried i'll wagon him, they could throw him away ("oh, he'll be lynched anyways") to kill me.
That being said, maybe they think they can out-argue me or present a better case. Or whatever. Or they'll roleblock the watcher?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:00 Grackaroni wrote:On December 09 2011 09:55 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 09:51 Adam4167 wrote:On December 09 2011 09:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For anyone who thinks I am mafia, because jay is. Think about it, if I kill off jay I would only have one other teamate left, if you think I am mafia for this reason I would be killed as well. This leaves one mafia member to convince everyone else that they are not mafia. The mafia that you are suspecting me to be in would have to have a player so experienced he could take out 6 other players over the course of three days. How does this make sense? I think you guys backed yourself into this shitty position by being too comfortable on day 1. Your team mate, who has done a much better job of staying hidden thus far, is probably reaming you in the QT for dumping the monumental task of killing 6 townies on his own, with 2 blues (if they live that long) still in the mix. Lets not get ahead of ourselves though. Jay hangs in 20 minutes (tick tock..). Yeah It's pretty clear JB isn't town. If he were, he would have posted his final analysis by now. After he flips scum I'll spend some serious time doing a monster analysis of everyone before the night ends. There's a 1/3rd chance we don't have a doctor, and if that's the case, the mafia know the setup, so I'm gonna get shot. They'll have BKEXE do the shot so the watcher learns nothing. That being said, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we have a doctor. You have to remember though that there is at least one of a doctor/watcher, either one of them would be targeting you. I highly doubt that mafia would be willing to attack you because it risks a no-kill or trading a mafia member for you. Right, but the mafia knows which 2 blues we have, remember? So it's a 1/3rd chance that the layout is watcher/doctor, and if one of them is BKEXE and they're worried i'll wagon him, they could throw him away ("oh, he'll be lynched anyways") to kill me. That being said, maybe they think they can out-argue me or present a better case. Or whatever. Or they'll roleblock the watcher?
EBWOP: There's a 1/rd chance that the layout is watcher/detective. This is the layout for which there is no doctor, and the mafia is able to kill me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
MAN MODS WHERE MY NIGHT POST AT
On December 09 2011 10:02 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:57 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 09:56 Grackaroni wrote:
His timing is wierd though, he held off on posting the case until it seemed like Jay was completely fucked. If Jay flips scum it is definitely possible that he was trying to divert votes off of Jay, because this was his first agressive case. Was there a particular piece of evidence that he posted his case right after seeing? Or could he have posted it earlier? I'm just raising the possibility, I didn't look too deeply into it. Jay was already fucked for today and this was the first serious analysis he has done and he did manage to get a vote on Ey he was suspicious of Ey since the start of the game and chose now to make the case. Obviously this would not be the sole reason for a lynch, further analysis must be made.
Um... do it?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I also just realized that xsksc's replacement has not voted so he will be modkilled.
Yah... that's really bad. Unless he's mafia, then we're set.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
BAM. TAKE THAT MAFIA. AND I WILL HUNT YOU ALL DOWN, ONE BY ONE. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP ME. NOTHING. I AM UNRELENTING
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Hey JB i was wondering if you could clarify your position on velinath plz. I have avoided noticing this night post somehow
+ Show Spoiler +
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Ok, I need to go home now. I'm gonna go to the gym, grab some dinner, etc, then do some serious digging and post my reads. If we don't have a doctor, this is my last 24 hours in this game. I'm dead. But if we do, I will live on gloriously and bring righteous vengeance down upon the unjust. My judgement shall by brutal and my victory complete... and all shall tremble at my name. I am justice.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Starshard (aka xsksc) did not vote in this election, as is mandatory. Is he being modkilled or replaced or what?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
OK, I'm home. I'm gonna start analyzing but before I do I just wanted to stop by and I want people to make cases for lynching people who aren't BKEXE.
I'm like 99% convinced BKEXE is mafia. I'm gonna go after him pretty hard. If anyone can think of a better lynch than BKEXE I want you to make a super super good case for it, please. Also, keep on talking and arguing. The more stuff we argue about the more obvious the mafia will be.
man i'm feeling good. Let's see if we can end this in the next two Days, gentlemen.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 06:28 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 23:43 Adam4167 wrote:
xtfftc, you seem so sure that ey215 is red, are you willing to stake your own lynching on it, if he flips town? I am not entirely sold on your case on him, maybe that might change after its finished. Since Jay flipped mafia, I expect BKE to be mafia as well, and so the last spot on the team is for either EY or xsksc. I don't feel comfortable calling this one before xsk's replacement starts posting.
Still putting together my "I'm probably dead in the morning" analysis post. Just wanted to point out that the whole idea of "would you be willing to stake your own life" is a dangerous statement. I was asked this about the JB lynch and I said "yes" to it, to strengthen my case... but what if JB was just an incredibly bad townie? It would be a bad move to waste a lynch day lynching me if I'm also town, and would probably lose us the game.
I think we need to get out of a mindset that "if A accuses B and B flips town, A is mafia". It's certainly possible that A is mafia, but it's also possible that A was just wrong.
IF xtfftc things ey215 is scum, and if ey215 gets lynched and flips town, then maybe xtfftc is the scummiest remaining player so he should be lynched. Or, maybe, he's not. Then you should lynch whoever is the scummiest, even though xtfftc was wrong.
Base lynches off of evidence whenever possible.
*back to work*
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 06:59 Zona wrote:
layabout is replacing Starshard
Reference
xsksc's filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=149333
starshard's (xsksc's replacement) filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=160133
layabout's filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=233798
Layabout:
Xsksc AKA Starshard AKA Layabout, your predessecors both went afk, which means they haven't posted much. Here's what I think you should do (and you're free to choose what you want, but hey, whatever)...
1) read the thread
2) form your own read on BKEXE
3) form your own reads on everyone else
4) Post detailed analysis as soon as possible of everyone, your reads, and your reasoning. Feel free to break it up into multiple posts.
You should do this as soon as possible, so we have some material on you and can evaluate who you are and where you stand. Also, you're basically going to be doing this anyways, but if you post it in this fashion we can actually see what you're thinking. I'm currently unable to form an accurate read due to the multiple ownership-changes of this player.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Good morning, gentlemen. I hope to see the dawn. A new dawn, over a new era, one in which BKEXE, the 2nd mafia member, is lynched.
Even if I do not live to see this dawn, I hope that you can make it a reality. Perhaps all you have is your voice and your vote, but that is all you need. With only 1 mafia player left, you will easily be able to find him out and destroy him.
We should lynch BKEXE tomorrow, whether I live or die.
Executive Case Summary:
BKEXE is a lurker. He's not a lurker due to not being here, he just chooses not to post. When he does post, he deliberately hedges, makes obvious, bland statements and/or tries to bail out mafia players or misdirect lynches. He's doing a careful job of staying "under the radar" while still posting occasionally. His defense of JB is telling, not because he defends JB (which any misguided Townie could do) but because instead of defending JB, he tries to direct the conversation in a different direction. The fact that he doesn't make a positive statement until it's clear that the JB lynch won't be stopped, and the way he goes about it are not indicative of someone who is unsure-- they are indicative of someone who reluctantly decided to bus an ally.
The fact of the matter is, he's trying VERY hard to lurk and not be suspicious, except to defend his mafia friend. BKEXE is scum and we must kill him tomorrow.
Detailed Case Information
Literally every post BKEXE has made so far will be quoted here, in spoilers, with my narrative analysis. You can find the executive summary above. The chapters are in Chronological Order.
I. Introductions and Policy Debates
Called out for being a lurker, BKEXE is slimy, noncommittal, and very scummy, and has to be bailed out by JB.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This is his sole post for quite some time. I call him out fairly early on, voting for him. He responds, initially with a meaningless excuse: On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot So far, there's nothing to really indicate he's town, except that he's being utterly unhelpful. "feed into the conversation?" He added nothing. However, again, one or two posts like this isn't really a problem. Other people here have begun seriously discussing policy issues about lurkers and liars, and taking positions and generally showing personality. BKEXE, however, is not interested in that. At all. He makes some factually true statements that echo other posters. Again, not individually something bad, but just the latest in a series of posts that don't peg him as anything. On December 04 2011 14:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
Well I think that Lynching any inconsistent comments is definitely a good idea. We need to be sure that any information we are getting is consistent and to keep the amount of strategies that the mob could be using low. As for the lurkers I agree that when in doubt we should vote for the lurkers. The information that they have could be useful or they could just be neglecting to play the game, which means they should not be playing at all. Now, here's something interesting: Velinath calls him out after this post. This is the first serious attack on BKEXE besides my initial pressure vote. Velinath points out a trivial logical contradiction that BKEXE has made. Velinath's assault: On December 04 2011 14:54 Velinath wrote:Speaking of inconsistencies, you mention voting for any inconsistent statement here, but in your previous post you say: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak. What changed your mind, or is this a misstatement? As you can see, Veli is basically being an ass here. He's criticism is aimed at the correct poster and actually at the correct posts, but he's missed out the crucial thing here: BKEXE is refusing to commit on Lynch All Liars. This isn't BKEXE misstating something; this is BKEXE purposefully saying vaguely contradictory information so that he doesn't have a solid base of statements to be held accountable for. What's truly telling, however, is BKEXE's retort: On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. This sentence has no meaning. At all. It's not a response, it's him just saying "nop nop nope"... However, it gets buried as at this exact moment, EY215 and I have our infamous fight, which instantly consumes a page of the thread, and this statement isn't immediately scrutinized. He does, however, follow it up with On December 04 2011 15:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Blazinghand,
As long as the mob goes down you can do whatever you have to. On December 04 2011 15:15 BroodKingEXE wrote:
jay is right that i am new. And of course, JB springs to his aid with a classic "meaningless JB post": On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. See, this post is JB hedging, as usual, but doing it in a way that at first glance looks critical and helpful to BKEXE. Look! BKEXE is being quoted and responding to JB! He's clearly interacting in a meaningful fashion with the main discussion, right? It's easy not to notice this. EY and I proceed to argue (with Veli involved as well) for about a page and a half, and BKEXE fades into the background. He returns about 15 hours later, which isn't too unreasonable-- this is consistent with someone who both sleeps and is away from a recreational computer for a fair amount of time.
II. Initial Reads and Scumlists
After being read as scum by several players, BKEXE returns to the thread and defends himself-- poorly. He votes for Adam
+ Show Spoiler +BKEXE is, at this moment, on several people's scum lists. He returns and defends himself while giving the reads. On December 05 2011 07:06 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For all of you who are getting a bad read on me, I want to confirm that I am a newbie. While I respect that Blazinghand has been pusing to prevent lurkers my reponses were obivouisly to defend myself. I feel that it is still a strategy that will work to get reads on the mafia, even if it has put me in the red. In the early stages of the game I feel that there is no way I would be able to get any proper reads as a newbie, but right now I am leaning to:
Mafia:
Adam - his critism of Blazinghand's style comes right after a compliment showing that he is defininetly trying to kiss up to him.
Hassy - he also critized Blazinghand's style in that he accuses him of targeting people early. His votes were clearly for getting people to talk, not at all to decide who to lynch.
Townies:
Blazing - has been contributing to the discussion and trying to get others to talk.
Velinath - I am kind of borderline on this as he has been contributing, but he seems to be following Blazing as opposed to creating comments of his own.
Turnkeg - I think he has been pressuring a little, trying to get a read,but I will go for townie.
Grackoroni - I will put him here because in one of his comments he left his own name on Turneg's read list and did not comment. I feel like this would have been something that he could have used to push his case.
As for the rest I feel like I have not got enough infomation. I am going to be off for the next few hours as I have a project due, but I will be sure to take a break to put my vote in.
He tosses out some reads, none of which have any meaning or any quotes. His defense for his scummy play the previous day was "I was defending myself against Blazinghand". Most people, btw, who defended themselves against me, reacted in aggressive, assertive manners, posting, insulting me, arguing, etc-- the kind of thing someone who knows he's innocent would do if someone got all up in his grill. BKEXE? no, he did nothing of the sort. He tried his best, instead, to hide. For good examples of people responding to my attacks aggressively, check out Adam, EY, and EB. These are people who either a) are innocent and so reacted aggressively or b) are mafia and good at acting innocent. BKEXE, though, continues to dodge. He defends himself again an hour and a half later, as Velinath goes after him harder. On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? And here we have it, gentlemen! obvious WIFOM! "I'm not mafia because mafia wouldn't make the obvious mistakes I did!" The fact of the matter is, BKEXE is bad at mafia. It should be obvious from the posts so far. The question is, GIVEN THAT HE PLAYED SHITTY, is he a shitty mafia player or a shitty town player? Well, you can't rule either out! Defending with WIFOM is unusually shitty... so shitty. I call him out for the obvious WIFOM. He decides to vote against Adam, which is fairly reasonable, due to a number of factors pointing towards Adam at the time. A lot of people voted for adam, each with their own reasons. Let's examine BKEXE's and see if they make sense... On December 05 2011 09:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
##Vote Adam4167 Ah yes, that's right. He didn't post a reason. On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. "Blah blah blah blah i'm a newb so clearly i'm not mafia leave me alone plz why are you so pro you're clearly not noob" The thing is, his reasoning isn't even bad, it's just that it's bad given that he hasn't done anything useful since then.He finally posts some reasonign: On December 05 2011 10:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hassy if you need evidence read this: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:39 Tunkeg wrote:
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game? If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. This is the main reason I want to vote for adam, when I first read this I realized that BH had only made four votes. The evidence he includes to back his statement is wrong, so that means that the statement although long as hastily thought out, not paying attention to what is going on, and therefore contributing as a towns member 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. This is also a bogus statement. He says that there are no major players in the game when he points out above that BH voted for half the players. To me that is a major move in itself. If he had read the forum at all he would have seen that BH has gotten the majority of players, including myself, to speak Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vhote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
III The BByte Lynch, and everything else before I went after JB
BKEXE begins to show his true colors: He bandwagons both the Adam and BByte vote in a very, very VERY obvious fashion. How did he bandwagon the BByte vote when he didn't actually vote for BByte? Look inside, gentlemen.=.
+ Show Spoiler +BKEXE does the first interesting thing he does all game: On December 05 2011 11:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hey BH what is up with this? Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well. You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information? This is by far the most TOWN thing he's said. He's actively attacking someone and sticking his neck out. It's not very aggressive, since it's phrased in a passive manner "Are you holding back" as opposed to "Why were you holding back" but it's exactly the kind of thing everyone else has been doing and he had not. The only problem, of course, being that he didn't actually read my quote and/or he was wrong on purpose and just wanted to be seen arguing. The post from which he is quoting refutes his argument on its own. He quickly retreats: On December 05 2011 11:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Oh Sorry I thought they were in two different posts. On December 05 2011 11:28 BroodKingEXE wrote:
No, I thought BH was only calling him out because he refused to vote. It turns out that EB says that he will tell BH about his evidence to lynch Hassy in the same message that he told him he would vote in the morning. I thought BH had the information beforehand, but did not tell anyone. The next morning, he makes some arguments to back up his attack on Adam. On December 06 2011 06:14 BroodKingEXE wrote:This will have to be a quick post, rehersal is starting. Adam:The only problem I have is that you have not explained why you blamed others when not reading the forum. The voting information is readily accessable on the fourth post, it is even mentioned explicitly by the host. You comment on his blameless acusations (when in fact they were for drawing out lurkers) yet you blame him without thinking about the contexts of the votes. You then in response go to say that the action was misguided, yet you contradict that statement with your comment about alcohol. Your mention of the misguided post is defended by an equally flawed post. You also mention how your post was defensive when in fact you spend most of your post criticizing others as well as well as commenting on xsksc's experience. In fact your only defense for Blazinghand's aggressiveness is to not a agree with it and then say that you could not respond because of your drinking. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 15:56 Adam4167 wrote:
I never said I was hung over anywhere. I also admitted that my reaction was misguided - where did i say that "my comment was not misguided". You are damning me for using incorrect information and then doing the same thing yourself in the same sentence. As I stated in my post to BH: My actions were defensive and reactionary to his pressure on me and my outburst was born of anger, not rational thought. On the other hand I agree with you that there should be not be bandwagoning or voting for spite. No matter how unconstructive the player may have come across, they should not be voted out for bad form. They should be voted out for posts that are error prone or reveal something about the identity of the mafia. I feel like as a newbie game there should be plenty of mistakes (I have made some too). And about bandwagoning it is a terrible idea to not vote who you think is the most likely mafia. We must trust our own judgment when it comes down to it, because we do not know who could be leading the group a mafia or townie. Let's bear in mind closely what BKEXE did: He posted an early vote on Adam, and was very noncommittal and dodgy UNTIL the train was going. Adam had many votes on him when BKEXE finally decided to go after him. This attack DOES NOT stick BKEXE's neck out, and is in fact a response to the wagon rolling. Traditionally, one states a reason to vote for someone, waits until people are in agreement, then votes (maybe without that middle step). BKEXE did this in reverse, voting, waiting until there was a wagon, and only when he felt safe doing so, trying to "contribute". After the lynch: On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are. This is a reasonable statement, except by this point EB and I had already had our discussion, and decided that it's better to talk during the night. BKEXE's statement here is a dumb and blatant attempt to excuse himself into lurking for another 24 hours. If he posted some additional reasoning, then it would be fine. If he noted that I had changed my position and he and I were in disagreement, that would be fine. But no, he notes none of these things. He's dodging as hard as he can, and nothing's even coming at him. I call him out for this immediately, and he responds by posting. On December 07 2011 04:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:I wrote this during the dinner break of my rehersal, so unfortunately I was not able to comment on BByte. Despite BByte's elimination I did view him as scum as well as others. It is unfortunate that he got as few posts as he did in. I feel that not everyone contributed to the BByte discussion that voted for him, we need to act as a town and each put in an opinion on our vote. You can check out my comment on him, I wish I had got it out earlier Mafia: red Neutral: normal Towns: bold ey215 - I really have a no reason to put him in either category he has provided some information, but often only when asked. On the other hand he comments on the lurkers and liars prompt, but he never really gives an opinion on the lurking. When commented on the no comment he gets angry saying that he is being attacked for his non support of LaL although his opinion was in the middle really supporting either side. I feel his feud with BH is instead based in the fact that he is the voice of moderation in most of our posts and he is bound to get some push back as moderation would cramp BH's style. + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all! Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this. - I put him hear because he has a high scum read. He comments on how Velinath has a lot of null reads when he himself has only five reads three of which are basically unsupported. BH - He is either a townie or has th biggest poker face in the game. I feel that his attacks might be showing the true side of people. EB - I feel that there is a lot of bad air around EB and that his bad choice of words against BH has put him in the worst position of the game. Looking at his latest posts they seem for the most part reasonable, his break down of xsksc was pretty telling showing that he can break people down and that xsksc is being careless with his posts. I think this deserves him the neutral position as the votes for him could very well be for out of a claim that was purely emotional. Grackoroni - I do not know what to think about him, while he does have a lots of small posts I feel each one is strong in the message it tries to send. He has been trying to dig into lurkers and has put in some of his reads. It seems that unlike others he is playing very objectively. I have no idea what this means in mafia though. I would appreciate thoughts on grack the most. Hassy - First came across to me as scum because he seemed to overreact to BH's votes in the early game, but I like his defense that he used behind his vote for myself. I feel like even though he at first used Velinath's point to defend his vote, his second reason made sense. He has every right to be suspectful of me, but I feel he needs to contribute to the forum more. His tone suggests more of a townie tone though. Velinath - I can say he is town or mafia for the sole reason of the amount of posts he has put up. He unlike some of my other reads is very post heavy, yet they are all in response to another users post. If you do not believe me look at his filter they almost all involve the posts of another user. While this is useful for anylitics of others I can not actually get a good read on Velinath from them. xsksc - he has been a very odd character. I am not sure why but he blew up after EB's probing of one of his careless posts (not that all of them are). He likes to use his initial post to prove his township, but after the post he did not do much to lead the discussion. Any discussion I have been part of has always had input from the prompter, it is important for them to get idea of the prompt and why they support it. Xtfftc - I think that he has provided good information, but has also been very active in previous mafia games. I feel his strong responses will make him a tough read and encourage others to help me figure out who he is. I fundamentally disagree with bandwagons as I'm gonna break this down for you right now so you know what he just did: He bandwagons the BByte vote, even though BByte is dead, and he admits this in his post.That's right, he specifically adds in an argument as to why BByte, the only confirmed townie, is scum. Why does he do this? Because he wants to be on every bandwagon possible, because he wants to blend in as much as possible. He claims "oh I had this written before but didn't post it" so that he appears honest about his intention to be like everyone else and lynch BByte. Hell, he even says he wished everyone could have seen him go against BByte. He missed the bandwagon, and he wished he was on it. SO MUCH. This truly amazes me. Adding the BByte analysis? MEANINGLESS. BBYTE IS DEAD. This is exactly BKEXE's scummy playstyle. Wagoney. passive. lurking. Scum.
IV. The JB Lynch
It becomes unbelievably, painfully obvious that BKEXE is scumbuddies with JB. My god. So obvious.
+ Show Spoiler +BKEXE tries to hedge and defend jay at the same time, revealing his true colors. repeatedly. On December 07 2011 14:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:
jay - to me jay is another one of those people who is being printed as scum based on the fact that he is opposed to BH in some aspect. I feel that he has provided some solid leads, but has to respond to the attacks by other more often then not. I feel like until he can get a few more unprovoked responses in until I can decide.
Turneg- he strikes me as more of a townie. I feel that in the early game he differed in his style vs BH. He instead of using more aggressive response posts, he looked at early posts and methodically made questions out of those. I feel like this is definitely more of a townie behavior. Early in the game he chose to start examining players right away, I feel that a mafia member would not have been able to think so quickly to implement a strategy as hard as this. These same questions have also put him in a bad spot as he is viewed as passively accusing, a behavior I feel is a bit scummy. A reasonable defense of JB, except that JB and I haven't disagreed on anything besides whether or not he is scum. BKEXE posts a lie, a red herring, and when I ask him to link me to where we disagree? On December 07 2011 15:07 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 14:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:
jay - to me jay is another one of those people who is being printed as scum based on the fact that he is opposed to BH in some aspect. I feel that he has provided some solid leads, but has to respond to the attacks by other more often then not. I feel like until he can get a few more unprovoked responses in until I can decide. I was unaware that JB and I were in disagreement about something before i fingered him as scum. Quote plz I get totally ignored. BKEXE presses on and changes the topic to some BS, completely useless BS about EB. + Show Spoiler [Useless BKEXE Quote] +On December 08 2011 00:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:FUCK!!I just realized that we could have figured out EB was a townie from this post, saving us from lots of trouble. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Sup. Here's the things that interested me when I read the thread through initially: On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. If we happen to get it wrong and kill the blue, we get a guarenteed scum lynch the next day, so it's not the end of the world Don't get the wrong idea here blues, we do NOT want you to claim now cause you'll just get shot, it's just a hypothetical situation. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. On December 04 2011 13:13 xsksc wrote:Ok I'm going to clarify for those unsure. Changing your past opinnion about someone or being wrong about something is not gonna get you lynched for lying. A misunderstanding is not a lie. Telling us you got roleblocked or medic saved etc when nobody visited you that night, that's a lie. Making a fake dt claim to try and lynch someone you think is scum, that's a lie. It's ok to be wrong, just don't straight up lie This is exactly what LAL is all about. Do not lie. You are allowed to change your mind. Straight up contradicting yourself is not recommended, but it's not a direct lie either. What is a direct lie is for example what's posted by xsksc, and that shit will get you lynched faster than you can say OMGUS. On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.So hurry up. What kind of a bullshit vote is this. If you're gonna attack me for not posting, do it in a way that actually has even a slight chance of putting any kind of fear into me. If you explicitly state your pressure targets can get rid of your votes easily, then there is no pressure, and thus no dire need to respond to the situation. Here he says if he is lurking then to do it in a way that would put pressure on him. He was obviously not scared of being lynched a pure townie reaction. Next time you pressure me or anyone else, convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people actually respond in the way you want them up. Don't include a get out of jail free card in your post. On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy.
Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. Why not? Despite his methods being somewhat flawed, he's doing a helluvalot better job than the rest of town in creating discussion. Only problem with him is that he's not convincing enough in his voting spree. If I was scum I'd actually feel pretty safe ignoring him. However, it seems likely he is town, unless he has a really good scumcoach, because I'm not sure scum would draw all this attention to themselves right out of the gates. Also he said this quote before saying he was not going to vote. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. He had already established that he was not going to give details until the morning. BH used this argument against him a little hastily. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. This quote also can be named as non useful as people get angry if you do not put down a vote. In all I feel like we need to have more analysis of the people we are getting scum reads on as a town. I will continue to look over EB's posts to figure out why they killed him. At the moment though I have come up with some hypothetical situations. 1) The mafia is dumb and voted for the player that was rated by the town as the worst townie ever. 2)EB had a read or opinion that the mafia did not like (xtfftc, xsksc, Turnkeg, jay, Velinath) the problem I think here though is that EB's claims were unsubstantiated in the case of jay a player that we already are looking to lynch. He also mentioned following breadcrumbs were a bad idea, so maybe the mafia wants us to follow breadcrumbs. 3)The mafia is just trying to throw us off with this vote. This is the worst case scenario, it means that the mafia felt safe enough to not take out players that they think the town needs to figure them out. This would mean that the majority of our reads are not strong enough or just plain wrong. The post is meaningless and is basically him saying "what, blazinghand is asking me for evidence? QUICK LOOK AT THIS SHINEY MARBLE GUYZ" Finally, about 12 hours into my argument with JB, BKEXE decides to bus JB: On December 08 2011 01:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:I am going to agree with BH on the fact that jay is scum. Looking back over his posts I realize that you have half filler and the other half stuff like this: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. You start off with shit like this a little bit of actual analysis. You can see that he changes his opinion halfway through the post. I understand that he does not have a good read on EB, but he should have just stated that he was neutral about him as opposed to leading us around in a circle.Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. Another one of these roundabout things, first he says that he thinks Velinath is townie, but he never backs it up instead choosing to say Bbyte had a good case on him (without a quote) I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much And finally you have this. I am not sure if this is a filler or a personality thing, but he compliments someone for posting after a while, but goes on commenting on how he wants to know more. You do not need to put a whole paragraph to get someone to say something, a simple question will to just fine to make you seem unaggressive. Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. Wait there is more? I am really not sure if this is part of his personality or a filler, but it does not do anything to help the town whatsoever. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me This reversal is bussing. He immediately proceeds to get a fight picked with him by Veli, once again, since Veli calls him out for the worthless EB misdirection. I really gotta give credit to Veli here-- Veli saved me a lot of trouble by calling BKEXE out all the time. On December 08 2011 02:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
It does matter that we all suspected EB. Firstly a person acts differently depending on if the are on the offensive, defensive, and neutral. I agree with grack that EB could make a good argument, that is why I was reluctant to put my read up. In my read I explicitly pointed out that EB broke down xsksc. He showed how xsksc's personality could change at the slightest pushback, making me think he is scum. He did it without losing his cool himself showing that he was a very formidable player, and one the mafia would not want to mess with.
The mafia probaly saw this as a threat and that combined with the spite everyone was showing EB made him an easy target. If the majority of people did not like EB would they really feel like his death was a real loss? Definitely not, I feel like the lack of posts about EB proves that. Since everyone felt like EB was going to be an unproductive townie they thought the act was seemingly random, so no one has had the insight to really dig into his death. Defending his worthless tripe with more worthless tripe. On December 08 2011 03:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:
BH,
I still feel that from now on we do need to include a reason why EB got killed along with our scum posts. I feel like it still has to make sense that the person we chose to lynch tonight had something to gain from EB's death. From your experience do you feel that the mafia had no motive (besides the fact that he was an easy kill?) Trying to get everyone else to post more worthless tripe. At this point, I summarize my argument against JB in a clean, concise post. BKEXE LITERALLY TIES TO SMOKESCREEN IT OUT BY POSTING HUNDREDS OF LINES OF TEXT. HE USES BROKEN QUOTE TAGS TO DO THIS. He triple posts, and makes sure to a) push me off the front page and b) make it so nobody ever find my argument. Luckily for me, I am shameless and simply repost it. But this is like, the most obvious possible defense of JB ._. I end up getting the mods to "let" him delete his two retarded posts so that stuff is legible. On December 08 2011 11:54 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I got permission to edit the post. On December 08 2011 12:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I got permission to delete the bad posts. BKEXE's huge text wall: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=39#763All broken quote tags, all illegible, nothing you can pin him on. His excuse for this enormous spam? Wait for it... WAIT FOR IT.......... On December 08 2011 13:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:
What is a preview button? I think Sinani has this one covered for me. On December 08 2011 13:56 sinani206 wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bW5Wl.png) BKEXE's final defense as to why he's clean? On December 09 2011 09:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For anyone who thinks I am mafia, because jay is. Think about it, if I kill off jay I would only have one other teamate left, if you think I am mafia for this reason I would be killed as well. This leaves one mafia member to convince everyone else that they are not mafia. The mafia that you are suspecting me to be in would have to have a player so experienced he could take out 6 other players over the course of three days. How does this make sense? Ah yes, WIFOM. Classy, BKEXE, classy. But we all know what you are.
In summary: it doesn't matter whether or not I live through this night, because I believe I have delivered you the second mafia player. BKEXE would have to be literally the worst town player in existence behind JB to not be mafia. If I'm alive at dawn, I will continue to go after BKEXE unless someone posts a case that convinces me otherwise. BKEXE better be around to respond to these allegations.
MJY: Just because Veli attacked bad posts a lot doesn't necessarily make him town. Keep your eye on him as always, guys.
P.S.: He just posted a case against EY215 now, and it may have some merit, but I just noticed that his first three quotes of EY215 are not in chronological order.
Just saying.
P.P.S: Please win this game, town. Post a lot. Make it hard for people to lurk, Put pressure on Layabout/Starshard/xsksc to stop lurking, also... especially if he's the 3rd gangster.
Thank you for everything, gentlemen.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
SWEET I LIVED.
P.S.: I was roleblocked last night.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 10:47 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 08:10 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2011 08:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:I am now starting to suspect ey215 as scumFirst he accuses Adam, but he has no evidence: On December 05 2011 09:38 ey215 wrote:
I agree we need to get votes on record due to time zones.
For previously stated reasons:
##Vote: Adam4167 On December 05 2011 06:18 ey215 wrote:
He says here in his read that he even needs to more posts to confirm his claim!
Adam4167 - not willing to call pro town. Will see how he posts after sleeping it off.
Ok, I have only read the first 2 quotes, but take a look at the time stamps. ey215 actually said the 2nd quote first, wanting to give me a bit more time to explain my shitty behavior, then 3 hours later he drops his vote on me. BKE, you are trying to make it look like ey215 is backpedaling on his vote. Stop misrepresenting the truth.I'm now going back to entirely read this - very skeptically. Adam, I said he has no evidence, you are reading too far into his post he never says anything about the shitty behavior. He just says you are not protown, and that need he needs more evidence to prove or disprove that. Other people have analyzed your behavior, yet he says to refer back to a post (in his vote post), where he says he wants to hear more from you. He did not say in his vote post that it was a pressure vote, instead he refers to information that was non-existent.
Honestly, the best way to help your case, if you're town, is to identify a mafia player and build a strong case against him. If you do this, you will help the town, and if I'm more convinced that say, Velinath, or whoever, is more likely to be mafia than you, i'll vote for him, as will the others.
Defending yourself is important, but if you're innocent, make sure you actually find us a good lynch candidate. In theory, that's what everyone has been doing for the past 24 hours-- writing a good analysis.
I'll read up on your EY analysis. I think it's worth your time to defend your EY analysis with quotes from EY and quotes from yourself, rather than just text-- refute using evidence.
I want you to build a solid case. (which arguably you may have done). I want you to defend it with evidence. Act like a town player, and that will be your strongest exculpation.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 10:49 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I wrote this above post as the night ended. Did not realize adam died.
._.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 10:49 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I wrote this above post as the night ended. Did not realize adam died. ._.
Srsly go build a strong case on someone, or strengthen your existing cases.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 11:02 BroodKingEXE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 07:00 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:34 Grackaroni wrote:The thing that really seemed suspicious about Ey215 to me was this. On December 05 2011 04:49 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do. If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop. Activity doesn't prove that someone is a townie, of course. But if you have a town read on all the active players, lynching a lurker is great. On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:
On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. 100% agree, this was pretty much my point anyway. And there's a lot of similar views expressed later in the thread by others, so can we say that we've reached consensus? If we don't get a good case, we lynch a lurker. Ok, just got back to the thread and I'll respond to things as I see them. I agree that we've reached a consensus to get rid of a lurker. That means lurkers, it's your time to step up and contribute. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A LURKER TO LYNCH, I wish every one of these players would start doing their part and contribute to town. My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. Instead of looking at active players your first priority is to look for a lurker to lynch, which i consider just finding an easy lynch without having to justify why you actually think that the player is scum. First he says no one is looking for a lurker to lynch, but in the last sentence he says we should get rid of someone for not contributing. Okay, let's not look for lurkers, but still be able to lynch them for not contributing! There is no way to figure out if someone is lurking without paying attention to who is lurking!No one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Go back and read my filter I have argued that we need to be looking at quality of posts over quantity of posts. With that being said, it's hard as hell to have a solid scum read on anyone day one, and if I have to make a choice I'm choosing someone not posting, or posting hardly anything of consequence to lynch over someone that has been active. You don't lynch for information, you lynch scum. Barring having a good read, we should get rid of someone not contributing since they're not doing anything to help the town anyways. This is my reasoning, where was EY's?.
Ah, ok, I think you're actually confused here. When EY says "I am not looking for a lurker to lynch", this is a semi-idiomatic expression in english. He doesn't mean he literally won't try to figure it who is lurking; he's saying that lynching lurkers is not his chief goal. He follows up that sentence with: "My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. "
So yeah I think you need to read a little more carefully.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 11:08 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 11:02 BroodKingEXE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 07:00 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:34 Grackaroni wrote:The thing that really seemed suspicious about Ey215 to me was this. On December 05 2011 04:49 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do. If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop. Activity doesn't prove that someone is a townie, of course. But if you have a town read on all the active players, lynching a lurker is great. On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:
On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. 100% agree, this was pretty much my point anyway. And there's a lot of similar views expressed later in the thread by others, so can we say that we've reached consensus? If we don't get a good case, we lynch a lurker. Ok, just got back to the thread and I'll respond to things as I see them. I agree that we've reached a consensus to get rid of a lurker. That means lurkers, it's your time to step up and contribute. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A LURKER TO LYNCH, I wish every one of these players would start doing their part and contribute to town. My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. Instead of looking at active players your first priority is to look for a lurker to lynch, which i consider just finding an easy lynch without having to justify why you actually think that the player is scum. First he says no one is looking for a lurker to lynch, but in the last sentence he says we should get rid of someone for not contributing. Okay, let's not look for lurkers, but still be able to lynch them for not contributing! There is no way to figure out if someone is lurking without paying attention to who is lurking!No one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Go back and read my filter I have argued that we need to be looking at quality of posts over quantity of posts. With that being said, it's hard as hell to have a solid scum read on anyone day one, and if I have to make a choice I'm choosing someone not posting, or posting hardly anything of consequence to lynch over someone that has been active. You don't lynch for information, you lynch scum. Barring having a good read, we should get rid of someone not contributing since they're not doing anything to help the town anyways. This is my reasoning, where was EY's?. Ah, ok, I think you're actually confused here. When EY says "I am not looking for a lurker to lynch", this is a semi-idiomatic expression in english. He doesn't mean he literally won't try to figure it who is lurking; he's saying that lynching lurkers is not his chief goal. He follows up that sentence with: "My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. " So yeah I think you need to read a little more carefully.
That, or you're scum and you think nobody would actually read the stuff you quote. You know, it could go either way.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
BKEXE, I'd be more careful about how I post, were I you. I personally feel a great deal of frustration in my attempts to parse the tomato-stained spaghetti that you call "analysis", and I am one of the more patient folk here. Please, for the good of the town (if you are town) make your case in a legible fashion.
Thank you.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 13:49 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 13:19 Blazinghand wrote:
BKEXE, I'd be more careful about how I post, were I you. I personally feel a great deal of frustration in my attempts to parse the tomato-stained spaghetti that you call "analysis", and I am one of the more patient folk here. Please, for the good of the town (if you are town) make your case in a legible fashion.
Thank you. What about it makes it hard to read?
You know what, if you think your posts are legible, then by all means, please continue. Don't let me stop you from your lucid and easily-understood discussion.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 10 2011 15:30 BroodKingEXE wrote:
BH,
I really do not get what you mean. My other post was too long so I put the quotes in spoilers is that making it hard to read?.
I kind of get what you are saying about the red, I will use bold.
Good Night.
No, that's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about the fact that you have a ~30% success rate in successfully using [ Quote] tags, and you apparently have yet to notice this fact.
The most egregious recent example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=48#953
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 11 2011 01:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:BH, Are you saying that you will ignore EY's lies based on my illegible posts? I have yet to see anyone comment about EY bandwagoning on two of the votes. While I was wrong about Adam others were wrong about Bbyte too. It seems like everyone says I have been defending Jay the whole game from this post: HereOkay, I gave my read on him and defended him...once. On the vote against him I looked at his posts and gave info, others agreed with the vote (like EY) and gave no information whatsoever.
I would really, really like to not ignore his lies, but I honestly don't know what they are.
Do you want to know why I don't know what they are? The reason is, your posts are completely, unbelievably illegible.
At this point, though, you have planted the seed of doubt in my mind. If you're a mafia player, you've done a really terrible job. But given how a terrible a job you did, it's not beyond comprehension that you are an unbelievably bad town player.
I can't read your analysis posts. I ACTUALLY CAN'T READ THEM, MAN. God, this is either the best troll or the worst attempt to defend I've ever seen. If you're a town player I literally refuse to play any mafia games with you ever again. I'm completely serious about this.
On December 11 2011 02:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I do not have anymore time to defend myself as I need to study for finals. I urge everyone to come up with a plan when I do not turn up mafia. I say do not blame the players that created the case against me, but blame the people who used their cases and did not check for errors.
I need to develop my skills about gathering evidence in the game and was not active enough in the scum hunt. I know that the case against me was pretty solid though, as I was not good in double checking my evidence.
Well,GG
BroodKingEXE
What the dicks is this? Why not actually be helpful?
._.
I'm going to look into Grackaroni and Tunkeg, btw. Just to check them out. I'll have an analysis up sometime today.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 11 2011 06:43 layabout wrote:
there has been very little discussion so far and so a mislynch would make today a huge waste of time that could have been spent scumhunting
to be fair, we should continue to try to root out the 3rd scum player even assuming that BKEXE is town or scum or whatever. An early start is awlays good.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 11 2011 16:18 BroodKingEXE wrote:
ey: I see that some of his posts have lies, but I have misread some of his posts too. While some of my evidence is bad, I still see lies in his posts that make me think he is scum.
If possible, could you post an updated version of your case against ey in which you remove the arguments of yours that turned out to be you misreading his posts, and you use the [quote[ feature legibly? It sounds like you have something worth saying, and if you're a town player, this is your last chance for real analysis. You still have 17 hours to live-- make them count.
If you want something interesting to analyze, maybe take a look at the Grack/tunkeg fight.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Bear in mind, BKEXE is either scum or the terriblest townie who has ever played-- i'm asking him for his opinion in part so that he learns how to give it but also because even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
While you can't discount the possibility of him being colossally bad town, I refuse to believe that anyone could play so poorly. His excuse for the walls of text was "where is the preview button"
There's NO WAY you miss the preview button.
The fact of the matter is, he didn't add anything of value via analysis, and in fact actively hindered town debate with his posting, until the last 24ish hours. Honestly, in the past day since people have piled onto him he (despite some initial anti-town sentiment) has made several posts, some of which had lies and/or "misreading" in them, and some of which may have value, and some of which suffered from "quote tag syndrome" whereby the entire post is illegible.
My case on him is long and is not, in fact, based entirely off of his defending JayBrundage-- if you take a look, the vast majority of the analysis is on stuff he did before he made a singular post defending JB. For the most part, I'm noting that he's posting lots of fluff but no analysis, not helping the town, headnodding, and trying to stay low-- and when he gets called out for this a couple times, he makes crappy retorts and waits until something else springs up and ignores counterarguments.
Even without his statements on JB, BKEXE is our best lynch today.
-----
As a side note, I have some good news! Our blues are probably Doctor + DT/Watch, because there's no other reason I'd get roleblocked last night. They think I'm DT/Watcher, and as long as they keep roleblocking me our blues are free to do what they want (since they'll probably think I'm bluffing to get them to stop roleblocking me).
I guess we'll know at the end of tonight. At this point, I just want to see the BKEXE flip so I can either be extremely pleased or extremely mad.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Final note for BKEXE: In the unbelievably unlikely event that you are Blue and didn't claim already, tell us what your night actions were before you die, or indicate that there are breadcrumbs. Or something.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I suppose it's fitting that I be the final nail in the man's coffin.
Anyways, I delayed my actual vote action in order to get people to bandwagon less, talk more. Man, BKEXE, we hardly knew ye.
Don't be so sad; it seems you figured out how to format posts, near the end there. Onwards then-- go into the blackness, past the precipice of death that is like unto shadow fading to darkness. Care not for us then, for when darkness gives way to void, and void to abyss, what will be left of these earthly wants?
Nothing.
##Vote: BKEXE
If he's scum, we've basically got this wrapped up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 12 2011 10:34 Grackaroni wrote:
Blazinghand is going to be pissed lol.
Yes. I am very upset. I will be having some very, very choice words with BKEXE after this game, should I be scheduled to encounter him in another.
There's nothing to be gained from be badmouthing BKEXE at this point, though.
On December 12 2011 10:40 Grackaroni wrote:
Also a wierd fact.
BKEXE/BByte/Adam4167/EB Were the people I considered the lurkers from the start of the game.
All of them have flipped and they were all vanilla townies.
It seems like lurkers tend to be bored townies more often than scum trying to avoid detection.
So it seems.
If the doctor could bail me out again tonight that would be great. Maybe he's busy, though, so I'm going to crank out some analysis.
Assuming our doctor is shitty, after tonight, we'll be at 5 townies 2 mafia. If we still have both blues we should be looking reasonably solid, but we need a good lynch tomorrow. If the doctor is shitty/dead, we'll drop down to 3 townies, 2 mafia, and then we need hella solid lynching.
Let's get it right tomorrow, guys.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I find tunkeg and grackaroni suspicious at the moment.
I have a final in an hour and a half and am unable to do the analysis I'd like to between now and the day post. I hope I don't get killed. Be back in a bit.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 13 2011 09:02 layabout wrote:
did you know that it is optimal play for town to not post?
oh wait...
Say it straight or don't say it at all.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 13 2011 09:03 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 09:02 layabout wrote:
did you know that it is optimal play for town to not post?
oh wait... Say it straight or don't say it at all.
Like, I'm completely serious. I have final exams, and it turns out that this particular one is a bit more taxing than I thought it would be. If you're gonna call me mafia, come out and say it. If you're going to say "this posting habit is sub-optimal", come out and say that. If you beat around the bush you're a) being a dick and b) not actually helping me, or the town.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, at least they didn't hit a blue. Was anyone roleblocked last night?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:52 layabout wrote:i couldn't find a minimum activity requirement but @Zona is Bluelights getting modkilled/replaced for inactivity?his filterin the last 5 days he has posted at these times December 09 2011 08:55. a line of text December 10 2011 10:45. line + vote December 12 2011 01:23 2 lines worth of text + quotes December 12 2011 01:34 1 liner December 12 2011 01:34 comment on typos December 12 2011 02:14 2 lines of text my timestamp for velinaths last post December 14 2011 06:34
Yeah I was wondering about this as well. Whereas layabout has been active, it seems like in the case of Bluelightz we have traded one lurker for another.
I'm going to talk for a bit about Tunkeg, who I believe to be largely unhelpful in his "statistical" analysis.
On December 07 2011 07:24 Tunkeg wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 06:30 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 05:57 Tunkeg wrote:On December 07 2011 04:15 Velinath wrote:On December 07 2011 04:09 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 04:06 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 03:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Tonight the mafia may have already made their decision, but if we can get the same info without exposing ourselves more by delaying an analysis post another hour, is that really a bad idea? One thought would be that we need as much information as possible, but I'm not saying we shouldn't have the info, just that a minor delay is good. Five hours is what we're talking about here. Yes, because it's not just about your own analysis. It's about your analysis and everyone else reacting to (or ignoring) it. An isolated read isn't as good as being able to analyse people's responces. Hm. That's true, the extra 24 hours may make the difference. On the other hand, it's worth noting that at the beginning of the day, we do receive another piece of information: assuming that either (a) there is no doctor or (b) the doctor guesses wrong, one of us dies and is a confirmed townie or blue. A dead confirmed townie or blue, but a confirmed townie or blue no less. This information might be unhelpful but it could also play a big role in terms of analysis. Going off your assumption that someone will end up dying tonight, why should we hold off on posting analysis? The more conversation that we can have before night ends, the more that the dead townie will be able to contribute before they die. Given this, I feel that we stand to gain more by posting analysis earlier so that we can discuss it with all of the town voices. For the sake of conversation what are you thoughts on the BByte lynch yesterday. You were the first one voting for him, what do you think of the rest of us that ending up voting for him. Any votes you find more suspicious than others? Hi! As far as where I stand on the BByte lynch, despite the flip I think it was the best option we had. As a town I felt that we were somewhat divided between a couple of scumreads from different people, and, given that, it would be too easy for scum to swing a lynch one way or another in that situation. BByte, as a policy lynch, was a good call - lurking is and will always be anti-town play. I wish he would have gotten back earlier to defend himself and avert the lynch, but as it stands it was the right call. I must admit I didn't expect people to jump over and start voting BByte as easily as they did. A couple people even said that they had decent scumreads but "because nobody's going to vote for them, I'll just vote for BByte". This is a little bit of a matter for concern. I don't know whether it's just town complacency or actual suspicious behaviour, but either way people need to step up and push their reads. + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 04:00 xsksc wrote:
Okay, I'll go with your judgement on this one. He seems like a decent lynch I guess, I'd prefer Tunkeg but that doesn't look like it's happening today.
##vote: BByte
Going to sleep now, will be back and active early tomorow morning. This one stood out to me - "it's not my best lynch choice, but it's not a bad one - and I can be more sure that my vote will help cement a lynch". On December 06 2011 05:13 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm willing to vote for BByte because he has not contributed to the game so far and his lynch target was stupid.
HassyBaby could still be a good lynch for today. Similar thing here. "This guy's a good lynch. Here's another option, but hey, I can actually get BByte lynched". On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
Similar to the last couple. What it came down to for a lot of people was "who can I vote for that will be a safe bet to avoid last-minute surprise vote switches?". BByte was a safe lynch. Not the best, perhaps, but safe. His behaviour was scummy, but we could have done some more analysis on other people and maybe gotten a better candidate. EB's case on Hassybaby springs to mind as a pretty impressive case, I think if we had had the time to discuss that he would have maybe made a better lynch target. Now that we have another day ahead of us, we need to start looking less at policy lynching and more at scum reads. While there was a reasonable amount of scumhunting yesterday, we were unable to act on those reads. After filtering the voters on BByte, I can't really see anything suspicious. Every vote was based off of Lynch All Lurkers, meaning it's really hard to distinguish between which voters were motivated by policy and which were scum. Despite my voting first, I really feel like BH led the bandwagon here, and that should merit some scrutiny. As has been said in the last two pages, players thinking for themselves is a good thing. Forming your own reads will always be better than going off of someone else. That said, I find one thing suspicious. xkskc's post stood out to me as just jumping on a bandwagon and really helping to get it rolling. At the time, BH had just gotten things started. An informed mafia would be able to switch votes after seeing as visible a bandwagon as BH got rolling, and allay suspicion. "Yeah, I would prefer we lynch X, but that's not happening so I'll just go along with Y". Seems weird to me, but like anything in this game we could WIFOM it to death. Tomorrow, I think it might be a good move to focus on Hassybaby more. EB posted an interesting case yesterday, and I think I posted some stuff slightly before that. One of the big points there is his complete sheep vote on BKEXE based solely on my reasoning, and then disappearing from the thread. Something to look into. While I don't want to policy lynch him for lurking, his play so far does seem scummy. Thank you for answering. I agree with your thoughts here. It is pretty hard to say anything about which votes are more suspicious. But if I am allowed to speculate I would think at least 1 scum was in on the lynch of BByte, and more likely 2 scums to secure it. 0 and 3 would be very unlikely IMO. 0 is unlikely because I think scum wanted to secure the lynch of a townie. 3 unlikely because then they would put all their eggs in one baasket (if all 3 jumped in early), and a change in lynchtarget would mean that at least 2 of them would have to switch to secure themselves (that would cause suspicion). If not all 3 jumped in early it would be no point in jumping in late for a third scum unless the vote weren't secured (for a secound scum, yeah, for a third no). So my view on the lynch yesterday is that there is likely to be two scums among the 7 who voted for BByte: Velinath, Blazinghand, xsksc, Grackorini, ey215, xtfftc and Tunkeg. And one among the rest. This is all speculations though, and probably not very usefull.
I view this entire statistical thing as bad. It's obvious WIFOM and I don't like it. The fact of the matter is, the entire mafia could have wagoned or anti-wagoned or who knows what! It makes more sense to take a look at people's individual reasoning behind their votes and find people that way. This is not a good strategy.
On December 14 2011 08:11 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:42 layabout wrote:On December 14 2011 07:31 Tunkeg wrote:On December 14 2011 06:21 Velinath wrote:
I'm also going to ask at this point that other people start posting. We are almost halfway through Day 4 and so far it's been largely dominated by layabout (earlier), xtfftc, and myself. Where is everyone? I'll speak for myself here. I think the entire thread have taken a bad turn after layabout came into play. All he have done is make shitty cases and OMGUS'ing anyone arguing with him. I think he himself is playing an utterly crappy game (if he is town), he is purposly misinterpreting what other writes, twisting and turning every word that is written and his dickish behaviour wants me to straight up punch him in the face. He acts like he is so fucking great at this game, and keep referencing other games and how this game should be played. At the moment I get pissed off just by opening the thread and reading anything he writes, and therefor I find it hard to contribute anything usefull. I'll give him this though, if he is scum he is doing a good job, creating a crappy townenvironment and distracting the town with his shit. I know this is an increadible OMGUS post, and I know it will probably make me look bad, but I don't care, I can't coexist with layabout anyways. So please feel free to jump on me, cause atm I am the third best lynch town can make (green townie who is having a hard time contributing). I will give layabout the benefit of the doubt, I think he is scum and not a crappy asshole of a town... ##Vote: layaboutyour case is just so good! (/sarcasm) you have really proved through analysis that all of my behaviour suggests that i am mafia (/more sarcasm) your also insulting... which is of course the best way to present a legitimate argument (/immature and slightly hypocritical rebuttal) please come up with something to support your vote pssst i referenced ver because i felt it was relevant and that his analysis really puts the behaviours i have drawn attention to into context, reading through and understanding the guides/analysis on tl that can help new players to improve. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:44 layabout wrote:
EBWOP below vote layabout are my comments My case against you is not great. But it is the only way for me to proceed in this game. I can't play this game with you in it. To be frank I don't care wheather you are mafia or town at this point, I can't play this game with you in it. So basicly town needs to get rid of one of us. If we are both town, well then we fucked this game up together. And yeah I am insulting, cause I am an asshole to other assholes. It is ok to apply pressure, and it is ok to be playing an aggressive game, going total asshole is not ok IMO. The only support I am going to provide for my vote is that I want you out of the game, scum or no scum. Of course if someone have a great case on someone, or if a uncontradicted blue comes up with a scum to lynch I will vote for them. I will not sabotage town.
And this is where you actually earn my vote.
"I dont' care whether you are mafia or town at this point"
That is straight-up anti town.
"the only support I am going to provide for my vote is that I want you out of the game"
are you serious? This is so anti-town it's blowing my mind.
##Vote Tunkeg
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So is bluelightz gonna get replaced or modkilled or what? He hasn't posted in 48 hours.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:44 Bluelightz wrote:sorry  just didnt feel like posting (>_<)
For two days? You'll need to do better than that or town's gonna lose.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:46 Bluelightz wrote:
also, gonna make some analysis on LB later
now would be better.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:44 Bluelightz wrote:
He has been scumhunting the entire game though so my thoughts on him is neutral.
Why are you neutral? Maybe he's been scumhunting, but how much has he followed through on it? Shouldn't you have a scum read on him? Why the neutral read?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:02 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:44 Bluelightz wrote:sorry just didnt feel like posting (>_<) you do realize you're judged on your posting in this game right, and lurking makes you look TERRIBLE?
And he did actually not post for 48 hours. Did he not read the rules, or did he ignore them.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 15:57 Bluelightz wrote:
sorry BH, didnt notice your case till now so,
##Vote: Tunkeg
BH, is there any other of his posts that make you have a scumread on him?
also, after looking @ BHs case m mind is decided for this day
What the dicks is this
##Vote Bluelightsz
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 16:12 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 15:57 Bluelightz wrote:
sorry BH, didnt notice your case till now so,
##Vote: Tunkeg
BH, is there any other of his posts that make you have a scumread on him?
also, after looking @ BHs case m mind is decided for this day
Bluelightz, please provide some original reasoning for a vote you put forward. Voting blindly based on one post is silly.
If by silly you mean scummy then yes, yes you are right.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Bluelightz, what's your case for not lynching layabout?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2011 18:52 Bluelightz wrote:
well,
First, he doesnt provide enough quotes
Second, I'm confused between who is mafia, but i dont want to risk losing a townie because
4-2(todays lynch if we lynch a townie)
3-2(If the doctor is shitty we'll lose a townie/blue)
I bolded 3-2 because its is lynch correctly or lose
also, when he accuses xtf he doesnt provide enough quotes
who is "he"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So Bluelightz are you or are you not suspicious of layabout, and why? Obviously no town players want to lynch a townie today.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm off to bed. I'll be up in 8 hours.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:33 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:26 ey215 wrote:
Actually, now that I've been thinking about it on BH, while I think we all agree he's town has anyone else found him to be less engaging since say the middle of day 3? Like he's almost stepped back a bit. I'm not sure why the change or if I'm just imagining it. He has. I think he may have decided to keep a lower profile because he felt that it's not good for town to sheep after him. The previous two days he put his vote on someone very early and this person got turbolynched, which discouraged discussion about others. Or maybe he's just busy or tired of the game or he's too busy laughing at our stupidity in the mafia QT or whatever ^^
I had finals-- now that I'm done you'll notice I'm back with a vengeance to wreak horrible havoc upon suspected mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Also this 2-2-2 3-way tie is completely terrible.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2011 06:39 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:33 layabout wrote:the players on the weakest case need to move. + Show Spoiler +btw that is the case on me, i see no real credible analysis against me Yeah, that won't happen...one scum and one chainsaw defense vote on you. They're not going anywhere. I anticipate a last minute vote switch by a scum to avoid having xtfftc lynched.
I'll head it off at the pass, then-- with 3 votes on him, xtfftc will need to convince me to unvote him to survive, or get ey215 to come back and unvote bluelightz. in the event of a draw, who got 3 votes first is the one who dies.
##Vote xtfftc
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2011 07:24 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:02 Blazinghand wrote:On December 15 2011 06:39 Velinath wrote:On December 15 2011 06:33 layabout wrote:the players on the weakest case need to move. + Show Spoiler +btw that is the case on me, i see no real credible analysis against me Yeah, that won't happen...one scum and one chainsaw defense vote on you. They're not going anywhere. I anticipate a last minute vote switch by a scum to avoid having xtfftc lynched. I'll head it off at the pass, then-- with 3 votes on him, xtfftc will need to convince me to unvote him to survive, or get ey215 to come back and unvote bluelightz. in the event of a draw, who got 3 votes first is the one who dies. ##Vote xtfftc When he flips scum, I would take a very close look at Tunkeg. This article points out an interesting tell that I would be somewhat concerned about. To quote: "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".
Indeed, before I was derailed by bluelights' blind sheeping, I was taking a look at Tunkeg. That being said, we'll have plenty of time to put together a case on him if xtfftc flips scum.
If xtfftc flips town, things will get really dicey though-- we'll be out of room to screw up.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
It would seem so. Still, I'd keep an eye open.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Man, I really hope I'm right.
I guess all I can do at this point is eat some 
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Man, I REALLY REALLY hope I'm right.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
AUGH FORUMITE IN HERE TROLLING US I saw the blue text and was so happy then so sad.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
OMG YES YESYEYSYEYSYEYSYESYYSYEYSYESYEYEUSYRFASFJLDSAJFKLSDA
YES
YES YES YSE YES YES YSE YES
I FUCKING MADE THE CALL
AND I WAS RIGHT
AGAIN
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
dOCTOR SAVE ME PLZ SO I CAN GET 3RD MAFIA GUY TMR KKTHX
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm actually serious about the doctor saving me tonight. I kinda need you to do this.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2011 10:39 Velinath wrote:
NIGHT TALK TIME
It's night four, we're at 5 town and one scum right now. What do you guys think about roleclaims at this point? Since we have two blues, it miiiight be a good idea - if the DT claims (assuming we have one!), he basically gets a free investigate night (protect or watch = he's immune).
What are your thoughts - or should we wait a little longer?
Roleclaim is a dangerous move at night... although we can be fairly sure there's a doctor. Even though mafia have successfully killed someone every night, I think the doctor is just keeping me alive, which I find perfectly ok-- and that's probably the reason the mafia haven't tried to kill me. They can't until the doctor is dead.
Doctor shouldn't roleclaim at this point since he can't prove anyone innocent. He'll just get himself killed.
If I were DT/watcher I wouldn't roleclaim, but I'd breadcrumb the results of my investigations in case I got killed tonight. Once day breaks, maybe a roleclaim would be a good idea, but I wouldn't right now. DT/Watcher should roleclaim during the day only to avert a townie lynch or if he knows who the last mafioso is.
If you are a DT, and you see someone claim DT OR WATCHER (since we have a doctor) that person is probably scum, and you should go after him. Obviously if hes claiming your role you should counter-claim.
That being said, don't even worry about this until daytime. For now, let's discuss who the final mafioso is. I'll be posting an analysis before the night ends. Also, I'm finally not gonna be roleblocked any more :D
Summary: Do not claim tonight.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
That's fair. I mean, I guess it depends how much the DT thinks he's gonna be shot vs how useful his results so far have been. Regardless, he should breadcrumb his investigative results.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:03 ey215 wrote:
I'd have no problem going with either at this point.
Which would you prefer, and why?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2011 15:41 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 15:37 Bluelightz wrote:Hey guys I have a confession LONG LIVE THE MAFIAgg, BH too gud what the hell
._.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Bluelightz, are you really claiming scum? Yeah, we put you in a tough spot, but that's not the way to go..
Also, to mafia: + Show Spoiler +
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Just out of curiosity, Bluelightz, what was your read on my role?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
What was your investigative history?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Like, who else did you investigate? Also I bet you being DT threw off mafia a lot. lol.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
man they roleblocked me night 2 and 3. I think they thought I was DT. I had you pegged for town 80% after you claimed a day 1 roleblock though, with the small chance of it being a mafia gambit, since the day 1 roleblock isn't very valuable.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Also, mad props to the doctor who kept me alive every night.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, there's the QT. I guess that means you're definitely Mafia.
I can drop the act, then.
I am The Doctor.
I was the one who kept me alive, by "asking" the doctor to keep me alive. After I became a mafia target I needed to lie to stay alive, and as a Blue, I am allowed to lie. Doctor is very strong in the end-game. Mafia was convinced I was DT/Watcher, and so as long as they didn't shoot and we didn't kill the REAL DT/Watcher, telling the "doctor" to "protect" me was my only way of preserving my powerful Blue ability to the endgame where it was strongest.
On Day 1 I saved ey215, since he was ballsy enough to disagree with me. Day 2 I saved Velinath because he was DT, but I was roleblocked. Day 3 the same thing.
Good game, gentlemen. I rather enjoyed it. I think I will continue to play games of Mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
EBWOP:
On Night 1 I saved ey215, since he was ballsy enough to disagree with me. Night 2 I saved Velinath because he was DT, but I was roleblocked. Night 3 the same thing.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
All my saves were breadcrumbed in a way that nobody could find but me, so I could point them out in case I actually saved a person. This would only be used in the event that the person was a town player who was about to get lynched in a dangerous situation, and I was willing to roleclaim to prove both them and myself innocent.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yeah dude this game was really awesome-- I'm sure the coaches made things really great. Big thanks to them for putting their own games on hold to help us out.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
From Dead QT:
Adam4167
Im going to laugh myself stupid if BH was the medic the whole time, and the mafia we're too scared to hit him because they thought the medic was hiding in the shadows and protecting him every night.
:DDDDDDDDD
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
BTW, the reason I voted for xtfftc was for two reasons. I didn't bother explaining because I was 75% sure it was him, and I had finals happening at the time so I uh... I basically just plopped down a vote and hoped for the best. LAWL.
xtfftc aggressively went after ey215 when I did, then vocally opposed the BByte wagon, [i]then hopped on the wagon.[i]
"Dude, no need to be so defensive. Blazinghand is trying hard to organise the town. I don't agree with some of his ideas but they are stuff to be discussed. There is absolutely no need for a townie to react like you did. Blazing's play so far is great."
This felt really fake.
Sometime during day 2 he tried to bail out JB also. The reason I remember this is I thought BKEXE did it, but when I looked for it I couldn't find it, because xtfftc did it. It was a pretty hard bail-- something like "hey guys let's chill out and talk about something unhelpful instead".
and, also, because Velinath voted for you, and I thought he was the DT. I knew there was a DT/watcher (probably DT) out there, and he wasn't being roleblocked.
Velinath makes a naked vote to start the day:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=55#1081
And at this point, I either thought Veli was mafia or the DT, which is why I kept on asking people to analyze him (trying to get the DT to check him if he's not him), and saving him. After jumping out with such a bold accusation, I realized it was a breadcrumb he was leaving behind.
All this, though, wasn't until the final hours leading into the vote. I was initially onto Tunkeg because his statistical "reasoning" was so dumb it HAD to be scum play. But bluelightz scumslipped so hard I jumped on him. Sadly, nobody followed. It wasn't until I was able to look back on it all with a clear head that I fingered xtfftc. It was really the attempt to bail JB that hurt you in my eyes.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:
Can you guys please answer these questions:
Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game?
Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf?
Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran?
A) Yes! It was fun.
2] Smurfing is important imo so the town can develop its own personality without relying on the vet. Ideally the vet should play as you did: be a good townie, do his thing, get killed off first night.
III. I think a scum vet might have helped this game, but it's unclear. I feel like in newb games it's scum-favored, so maybe a single town vet who dies off quickly is ideal.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Btw, JB-- this has bothered me for some time. Did you actually miss the day post, or was that a gambit?
EDIT: Also, BKEXE, no hard feelings. Your posting did improve towards the end there. I won't viciously go after you in the next game we have together
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I actually really appreciated the mods getting replacements rather than modkilling players, as well. That was good.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
D: Sorry for lynching you first day BByte. I hope to see you in another game at some point.
I think it may have made sense for the coaches to know that there was a Vet player, even if it wouldn't make sense for the players to know, btw. Or at least for the mafia coach to know. In some hypothetical situation where BC hadn't noticed Palmar, perhaps because he didn't know to keep an eye open, the town would have won pretty handily, since each town player had a coach, whereas there was only 1 coach for the 2 Mafia.
That's another thing-- and I know there's only so many coaches-- maybe 2 coaches for 3 mafia? It seems from reading the thread like BC wasn't always awake at the right times to help at crucial junctures, and he had partying and work and stuff to do.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:22 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 01:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 16 2011 01:42 syllogism wrote:
No, I was coaching 3 townies at least ok, that makes me feel marginally better lol I´m not following, are you saying it was too much to coach 3 players?
wait wait waaaaait ok so I was totally thinking that each town coach had only one townie. heh. Well, that makes more sense. I mean, it sounds like manpower was fairly limited regarding coaching so my suggestion wasn't realistic anyways.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:44 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey for those of you who did not read the dead/observer post. You guys had it won by the tiebreak vote. XTF was the first person with two votes, so if he was mafia the other mafia would try to change his or her vote against someone else.
Honestly I'm not even sure we would have won for sure if bluelightz could keep suspicion off of himself-- though it would be very tough once xtf was down. Maybe if he bussed him before I cast my vote? I was just surprised velinath never got killed for being helpful, or that nobody realized I was the doctor desperately trying to keep myself alive. Every night I was like 100% sure that this night the mafia would realize I was the doctor and just kill me. Especially since they were roleblocking me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:52 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:41 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The major issue for me was that I am in the US eastern time zone whereas blue and xtf were a 12 hour time difference with myself. Giving live feedback in that situation is very very difficult as it limits the ability to help a player deal with a situation as it arises. How can you direct a player on how to escape scrutiny if you are sleeping while they are active and the situation arises? I see what you mean. All roles were random, but if the scumteam is full of europeans, then an european coach is preferable.
Maybe the best thing here would be to determine the scum coach based on the coach's time zone (after the scumteam is determined randomly)?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 03:18 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On December 16 2011 02:44 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey for those of you who did not read the dead/observer post. You guys had it won by the tiebreak vote. XTF was the first person with two votes, so if he was mafia the other mafia would try to change his or her vote against someone else. Honestly I'm not even sure we would have won for sure if bluelightz could keep suspicion off of himself-- though it would be very tough once xtf was down. Maybe if he bussed him before I cast my vote? I was just surprised velinath never got killed for being helpful, or that nobody realized I was the doctor desperately trying to keep myself alive. Every night I was like 100% sure that this night the mafia would realize I was the doctor and just kill me. Especially since they were roleblocking me. I was targeting Bluelightz for investigation on Night 4, as I figured if he cleared Tunkeg would likely be the last scum. Since ey was already cleared for me we could have afforded a mislynch there if Bluelightz cleared that night - which I believe would leave you as the only player I didn't check (I figured you were town from Day 1, heh).
Bear in mind that I plan to play in a similarly aggressive style should I be a town OR scum player in future games. I like talking. As you can see (Bbyte, BKEXE) my style is just as good at getting bandwagons rolling on town players as it is on mafia players-- although it may make sense not to draw too much attention as mafia, what's more suspicious to you-- Blazinghand being loud or Blazinghand being quiet? Several players suspiciously noted my low posting during days 3 and 4 and some observers even fingered me as scum playing a long con with some amazing "bus JB day 2" strategy, just based on my change of style (which came on due to final exams).
Also, I feel like BL would have targeted you after your aggressive very Blue play on day 4. You basically soft-claimed Cop by going after xtf in such an aggressive fashion and THEN producing evidence. The mafia noticed it right away if you check out their QT. I still think town had a big advantage, I just don't think it was unwinnable.
Bluelightz slipped pretty hard with the flagrant sheeping though-- as a general rule as Mafia, try to imagine what a Town version of you would do in that circumstance-- you wouldn't try to abdicate responsability for your actions. I immediately thought something was wrong after that post.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 03:37 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:24 Blazinghand wrote:On December 16 2011 03:18 Velinath wrote:On December 16 2011 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On December 16 2011 02:44 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey for those of you who did not read the dead/observer post. You guys had it won by the tiebreak vote. XTF was the first person with two votes, so if he was mafia the other mafia would try to change his or her vote against someone else. Honestly I'm not even sure we would have won for sure if bluelightz could keep suspicion off of himself-- though it would be very tough once xtf was down. Maybe if he bussed him before I cast my vote? I was just surprised velinath never got killed for being helpful, or that nobody realized I was the doctor desperately trying to keep myself alive. Every night I was like 100% sure that this night the mafia would realize I was the doctor and just kill me. Especially since they were roleblocking me. I was targeting Bluelightz for investigation on Night 4, as I figured if he cleared Tunkeg would likely be the last scum. Since ey was already cleared for me we could have afforded a mislynch there if Bluelightz cleared that night - which I believe would leave you as the only player I didn't check (I figured you were town from Day 1, heh). Bear in mind that I plan to play in a similarly aggressive style should I be a town OR scum player in future games. I like talking. As you can see (Bbyte, BKEXE) my style is just as good at getting bandwagons rolling on town players as it is on mafia players-- although it may make sense not to draw too much attention as mafia, what's more suspicious to you-- Blazinghand being loud or Blazinghand being quiet? Several players suspiciously noted my low posting during days 3 and 4 and some observers even fingered me as scum playing a long con with some amazing "bus JB day 2" strategy, just based on my change of style (which came on due to final exams). Also, I feel like BL would have targeted you after your aggressive very Blue play on day 4. You basically soft-claimed Cop by going after xtf in such an aggressive fashion and THEN producing evidence. The mafia noticed it right away if you check out their QT. I still think town had a big advantage, I just don't think it was unwinnable. Bluelightz slipped pretty hard with the flagrant sheeping though-- as a general rule as Mafia, try to imagine what a Town version of you would do in that circumstance-- you wouldn't try to abdicate responsability for your actions. I immediately thought something was wrong after that post. In retrospect, I should have just roleclaimed to ensure the lynch. 5-1 with the suspicions town had for the next two days would have won the game
That may have worked. Especially with the Doctor still alive, and the mafia no longer having a roleblocker, they'd be in a very tough situation. Bluelightz wasn't in a position to counterclaim, and neither was xtfftc. The only risk was, at the time we didn't know whether xtfftc was the roleblocker or not. If Bluelightz was the roleblocker, he could roleblock me and kill you Night 4. Now, granted, he wasn't, but we couldn't know that. Then again, he wasn't sure I was doctor, but with a DT roleclaim who's not me, they'd probably piece it together.
On December 16 2011 03:45 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:37 Velinath wrote:On December 16 2011 03:24 Blazinghand wrote:On December 16 2011 03:18 Velinath wrote:On December 16 2011 02:53 Blazinghand wrote:On December 16 2011 02:44 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey for those of you who did not read the dead/observer post. You guys had it won by the tiebreak vote. XTF was the first person with two votes, so if he was mafia the other mafia would try to change his or her vote against someone else. Honestly I'm not even sure we would have won for sure if bluelightz could keep suspicion off of himself-- though it would be very tough once xtf was down. Maybe if he bussed him before I cast my vote? I was just surprised velinath never got killed for being helpful, or that nobody realized I was the doctor desperately trying to keep myself alive. Every night I was like 100% sure that this night the mafia would realize I was the doctor and just kill me. Especially since they were roleblocking me. I was targeting Bluelightz for investigation on Night 4, as I figured if he cleared Tunkeg would likely be the last scum. Since ey was already cleared for me we could have afforded a mislynch there if Bluelightz cleared that night - which I believe would leave you as the only player I didn't check (I figured you were town from Day 1, heh). Bear in mind that I plan to play in a similarly aggressive style should I be a town OR scum player in future games. I like talking. As you can see (Bbyte, BKEXE) my style is just as good at getting bandwagons rolling on town players as it is on mafia players-- although it may make sense not to draw too much attention as mafia, what's more suspicious to you-- Blazinghand being loud or Blazinghand being quiet? Several players suspiciously noted my low posting during days 3 and 4 and some observers even fingered me as scum playing a long con with some amazing "bus JB day 2" strategy, just based on my change of style (which came on due to final exams). Also, I feel like BL would have targeted you after your aggressive very Blue play on day 4. You basically soft-claimed Cop by going after xtf in such an aggressive fashion and THEN producing evidence. The mafia noticed it right away if you check out their QT. I still think town had a big advantage, I just don't think it was unwinnable. Bluelightz slipped pretty hard with the flagrant sheeping though-- as a general rule as Mafia, try to imagine what a Town version of you would do in that circumstance-- you wouldn't try to abdicate responsability for your actions. I immediately thought something was wrong after that post. In retrospect, I should have just roleclaimed to ensure the lynch. 5-1 with the suspicions town had for the next two days would have won the game For sure, you claim and get it down to 5 town -1 scum, you ensure yourself at least 1 more check, in this scenario it turns out that BH was the medic so you were going to be healed without claiming, but if tunkeg or ey was the medic BH would have been healed and you would probably be killed. If I was scum you would be one of my earliest kills, you were on everybody's townie list but not nearly as likely to be protected like BH. I can sort of see a reason for why BH didn't want to claim now. Everybody assumed that he was a cop and a lot of his posts make him look blue, so if you claimed cop scum would probably realize he was the medic.
Yeah I'll admit I didn't want my cover to be blown. I was actually safer with the mafia thinking I was a cop.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 03:55 Grackaroni wrote:
I didn't believe that you were a cop though so I jumped to the conclusion that you were scum.
This was the post that really threw me off.
"As a side note, I have some good news! Our blues are probably Doctor + DT/Watch, because there's no other reason I'd get roleblocked last night. They think I'm DT/Watcher, and as long as they keep roleblocking me our blues are free to do what they want (since they'll probably think I'm bluffing to get them to stop roleblocking me). "
This doesn't really make you look less like a cop, you're practically screaming to scum that you didn't want to be roleblocked.
(if you wanted to attract scum to roleblock you, you didn't have to say anything because they already believed you were a cop.)
It made me think that you wanted people to believe you were a cop, which in a way I guess was accurate.
Indeed. I made that post specifically to tell our Cop the clock was ticking, I was the Doctor, and I was getting roleblocked.
See, Veli read that post and immediately realized what was happening-- he's the DT, so he knew immediately that it was DT/Doctor and that I was being roleblocked consistently.
The mafia read that post and said "lawl noob cop trying to get us not to roleblock him"
It also kept me alive.
EDIT: Hopefully. It's unclear whether he figured out I was the Doctor. It's hard to indicate you're the Doctor to the DT without indicating it to the mafia. The only information that Veli had that the mafia didn't was that I *wasn't* the DT. So by acting blue, to the mafia it appears i'm the DT, and to him it appears i'm the Doctor.
EDIT EDIT: Not that any of this actually mattered.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:05 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:28 Grackaroni wrote:
I figured there was no way that Blue could be scum because mafia would help him post better than that. If the mafia plays as a team, yes. In this game we hardly had a team. Jay didn't listen and was doing his own thing but at least he tried playing, so it's okay. But Blue was lurking and then saying things such as "xtf don't jump on the EY bandwagon" when I was the person who started it in the first place...
I think it was somewhat unlucky for mafia team that Hassybaby went afk, then Bluelightz also went afk... and came back to play sub-optimally. It's really tough to sub in for another player especially for someone new who maybe wasn't entirely sure what was going on in the thread (Layabout can tell you how hard it is to pick up two batons at once, since sandshard ended up going afk as well-- I think he deserves some real credit for contributing to the town despite being thrown into the deep end rather harshly).
On December 16 2011 09:07 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:55 Grackaroni wrote:
I didn't believe that you were a cop though so I jumped to the conclusion that you were scum.
This was the post that really threw me off.
"As a side note, I have some good news! Our blues are probably Doctor + DT/Watch, because there's no other reason I'd get roleblocked last night. They think I'm DT/Watcher, and as long as they keep roleblocking me our blues are free to do what they want (since they'll probably think I'm bluffing to get them to stop roleblocking me). "
This doesn't really make you look less like a cop, you're practically screaming to scum that you didn't want to be roleblocked.
(if you wanted to attract scum to roleblock you, you didn't have to say anything because they already believed you were a cop.)
It made me think that you wanted people to believe you were a cop, which in a way I guess was accurate. For what it's worth, I didn't particularly care about whether BH was blue or not. He had a good effect on the town's play overall but I didn't feel like killing him on Night 2 or 3 would have changed that much, so I opted to go for others. Killing him on Night 1 would have been better but EB was the priority and there was no way I was going for anyone else.
Well, you did spend a couple roleblocks on me which let Veli find you
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:23 xtfftc wrote:For those who missed it: Palmar soft-claimed he smurf very early into the game: Show nested quote +If he is scum, he's the first scum I've ever seen actually trying to push the town away from lynching lurkers on day 1. Also, considering that the post I quoted was on Veli who was town, I think that I get to be the first scum Palmar's ever seen actually trying to push the town away from lynching lurkers on day 1™.
I assumed he was talking about previous mafia games; I read through about 4 or 5 mafia threads before I started in this game. Of course in HINDSIGHT it becomes clear that EB was a smurf, but during the game I thought he was just a terrible ragey semi-lurking european. LOL.
On December 16 2011 09:24 Adam4167 wrote:
And ill also echo what others have said: Its a huge time investment, just to not be lynched for lurking. I lost actual sleep over this game, lying there, wondering if i could talk myself out of the hole id dug myself into, or if BKEXE was going to flip town and id feel like an ass for pushing his case (yep!).
Dude! I totally spend nights poring over people's filters looking for slipups. And I was definitely really worried about the BKEXE lynch during the last like 12 hours when he shaped up his posting. Unlike JB who withdrew entirely, BKEXE was legitimately trying to help in his final hours. He was WRONG, but he was trying to help. It was very unnerving.
Sleep, Mafia, Social Life, Academics.
Pick 2.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:31 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:25 Blazinghand wrote:
Dude! I totally spend nights poring over people's filters looking for slipups. And I was definitely really worried about the BKEXE lynch during the last like 12 hours when he shaped up his posting. Unlike JB who withdrew entirely, BKEXE was legitimately trying to help in his final hours. He was WRONG, but he was trying to help. It was very unnerving.
Sleep, Mafia, Social Life, Academics.
Pick 2. I even sat there and thumbed through everyone's filter outside of mafia to get a feel for who they really were. That took about 9 hours. And its exactly what 'confirmed' you as townie for me on the 2nd day. Your posting was just consistent with how you were in other threads (srsly, 3000 posts worth.... I hate you). This is why I was happy to take more of a backseat to you towards the end, I knew you had towns interests at heart (even if you did hang poor Bbyte for nothing ).
Oh man... dude. I've made so many posts here on TL. I've been here for a year (as of today)... probably like 2k of them in Sc2 Strategy just answering questions. That's a lot of hard work to read through all that. I'm honestly impressed.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:46 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:35 Blazinghand wrote:On December 16 2011 09:31 Adam4167 wrote:On December 16 2011 09:25 Blazinghand wrote:
Dude! I totally spend nights poring over people's filters looking for slipups. And I was definitely really worried about the BKEXE lynch during the last like 12 hours when he shaped up his posting. Unlike JB who withdrew entirely, BKEXE was legitimately trying to help in his final hours. He was WRONG, but he was trying to help. It was very unnerving.
Sleep, Mafia, Social Life, Academics.
Pick 2. I even sat there and thumbed through everyone's filter outside of mafia to get a feel for who they really were. That took about 9 hours. And its exactly what 'confirmed' you as townie for me on the 2nd day. Your posting was just consistent with how you were in other threads (srsly, 3000 posts worth.... I hate you). This is why I was happy to take more of a backseat to you towards the end, I knew you had towns interests at heart (even if you did hang poor Bbyte for nothing ). Oh man... dude. I've made so many posts here on TL. I've been here for a year (as of today)... probably like 2k of them in Sc2 Strategy just answering questions. That's a lot of hard work to read through all that. I'm honestly impressed. Yeah, I feel like I know how to play Terran now. Not that id ever want to... dirty OP shit
Man you've got a sweet scv as your profile pic! Change it to your real race so you can be an op probe or imba drone.
On December 16 2011 09:44 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:32 xtfftc wrote:On December 16 2011 09:24 Adam4167 wrote:On December 16 2011 05:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
I agree with BC that scum should've had a vet if town got a vet. The drawback is that only two players learn to play scum, but that's not a huge problem IMO, particularly when you have one or maybe even two vets on the town side.
In order for this to be feasible I think perhaps the next newbie or newbie-ish game should have 16 players. Activity is up recently and there were even a lot of new players in the normal game. Personally, I don't actually like newbie games, since I think normals are just better for new players, but they're certainly more popular recently, so they should definitely continue IMO.
The only hurdle I can see with giving both sides a vet is that the town vet is very likely to be shot on night 1. Now, the game has only the scum vet in it until the town gets its shit together and eventually hangs him (which will probably be last of all the scums, as hes the least likely to be caught saying or doing something stupid). Town vet dies > instalynch of the other vet since he's obviously mafia. But we, as town, may not realize who the other vet even is, unless they aren't smurfing. I know I liked EB (mainly because he was making sense and shoving BH back a bit), but I had no clue he was a vet until I read the TL48 thread and Annul outed him as a smurf account.
So I was in #TLMafia the other day and Palmar was like "blah blah why did you vote me in that game" and I was like "wuhh" and he was like "yeah man you were wrong" and I was so confused then he was like "I'm EB" and I was like "oh.... oh. that make sense now"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I think that's a fair case against vets smurfing in general.
I'm not sure, though, that EB really helped the town a huge amount. Not to bag on palmar but basically he disagreed with me a bunch, flipped out, made some unsubstantiated (if correct) remarks, then got gunned down like a punk.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 16 2011 10:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 10:02 Blazinghand wrote:
I think that's a fair case against vets smurfing in general.
I'm not sure, though, that EB really helped the town a huge amount. Not to bag on palmar but basically he disagreed with me a bunch, flipped out, made some unsubstantiated (if correct) remarks, then got gunned down like a punk. issue is, had he been able to remain alive he would have done a ton. It doesn't help the only reason I spotted him was his retarded post in the other game lol
that's true. this might sound dumb, but maybe the smurfs should have a goal of being killed night 1? Like, identifying themselves as town, being a good player, then trying to get shot like a punk?
EDIT: of course, this might also caused them to get healed by a medic, etc, which would only worsen the problem.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 17 2011 00:51 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 00:16 vaderseven wrote:
BH-
I had a blast coaching you. You utilized me to the fullest and were often times just needing small nudges to stay focused. Your willingness to utilize me made it very fun and easy to help you. Probably because he's better than you.
oh snapppppppp
I had fun too. I think V7 gave me great advice. I seem to recall him saying something along the lines of "make sure to roleclaim and shoot Palmar or his friend day1 it is the strongest strat"
OH SNAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
OK OK FINE I'LL REPLACE IT WITH A TASTEFUL JOKE
edit: man I want to get in a new game already. 24 hours without mafia to argue about~ cue withdrawal.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 17 2011 02:32 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 00:13 vaderseven wrote:It was really fun coaching this game. Blazinghang, Tunkeg, and adam4167 were my 'students'. Blazinghand was fun to talk to and coach. Took a real ballsy approach to being a medic. He really stayed focused on scumhunting and was able to see past some things that normally distract from that. Tunkeg played a lower key game and I wish he had contacted me before that slapfight with layabout got the point it did. I think that interchange is a great lesson that everyone in this game can pick up on about aggression, slapfights, and how those things really dont indicate alignment and how they can be used as tools (in the case of aggresion) or distractions (slapfights). Adam died right as he was starting to use me. Thanks for caching man, and sorry for beeing such a bad student. I regret not using you more through out the entire game. In retrospect I should have run both the xsksc case and the probability lynch by you as well, and then I could have avoided them entirely . The entire bash with layabout was just completely silly, and was probably the single worst play of the game... Funny that you were BH's coach seeing the last pm I sent to you before the game ended
What was it? Was it "I think BH is scum should I lynch him?"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 17 2011 02:44 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:37 Blazinghand wrote:On December 17 2011 02:32 Tunkeg wrote:On December 17 2011 00:13 vaderseven wrote:It was really fun coaching this game. Blazinghang, Tunkeg, and adam4167 were my 'students'. Blazinghand was fun to talk to and coach. Took a real ballsy approach to being a medic. He really stayed focused on scumhunting and was able to see past some things that normally distract from that. Tunkeg played a lower key game and I wish he had contacted me before that slapfight with layabout got the point it did. I think that interchange is a great lesson that everyone in this game can pick up on about aggression, slapfights, and how those things really dont indicate alignment and how they can be used as tools (in the case of aggresion) or distractions (slapfights). Adam died right as he was starting to use me. Thanks for caching man, and sorry for beeing such a bad student. I regret not using you more through out the entire game. In retrospect I should have run both the xsksc case and the probability lynch by you as well, and then I could have avoided them entirely . The entire bash with layabout was just completely silly, and was probably the single worst play of the game... Funny that you were BH's coach seeing the last pm I sent to you before the game ended What was it? Was it "I think BH is scum should I lynch him?" It was a resigned message where I QQ'ed about how badly town would lose if you and layabout were scum. And all possible reasons to why that just might be
Well, you know, if I WERE scum, I could have easily forced a mislynch day 4, and uh... yeah. Things would have been bad. That being said, I probably would have been less adamant about the JB Lynch on day 2 wifom wifom wifom wifom etc. I actually was not suspicious of Layabout, just because he was really putting himself out there-- I mean, I didn't think "oh he must be town" but he was putting some serious effort into his arguments, and given that he was coming in from being a replacement of a replacement, if he was scum he could be fairly cautious and respond to any criticism with "hey man I dunno why my predecessors did that either" or something. I thought his play was fairly pro-town.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 17 2011 03:03 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:48 Blazinghand wrote:On December 17 2011 02:44 Tunkeg wrote:On December 17 2011 02:37 Blazinghand wrote:On December 17 2011 02:32 Tunkeg wrote:On December 17 2011 00:13 vaderseven wrote:It was really fun coaching this game. Blazinghang, Tunkeg, and adam4167 were my 'students'. Blazinghand was fun to talk to and coach. Took a real ballsy approach to being a medic. He really stayed focused on scumhunting and was able to see past some things that normally distract from that. Tunkeg played a lower key game and I wish he had contacted me before that slapfight with layabout got the point it did. I think that interchange is a great lesson that everyone in this game can pick up on about aggression, slapfights, and how those things really dont indicate alignment and how they can be used as tools (in the case of aggresion) or distractions (slapfights). Adam died right as he was starting to use me. Thanks for caching man, and sorry for beeing such a bad student. I regret not using you more through out the entire game. In retrospect I should have run both the xsksc case and the probability lynch by you as well, and then I could have avoided them entirely . The entire bash with layabout was just completely silly, and was probably the single worst play of the game... Funny that you were BH's coach seeing the last pm I sent to you before the game ended What was it? Was it "I think BH is scum should I lynch him?" It was a resigned message where I QQ'ed about how badly town would lose if you and layabout were scum. And all possible reasons to why that just might be Well, you know, if I WERE scum, I could have easily forced a mislynch day 4, and uh... yeah. Things would have been bad. That being said, I probably would have been less adamant about the JB Lynch on day 2 wifom wifom wifom wifom etc. I actually was not suspicious of Layabout, just because he was really putting himself out there-- I mean, I didn't think "oh he must be town" but he was putting some serious effort into his arguments, and given that he was coming in from being a replacement of a replacement, if he was scum he could be fairly cautious and respond to any criticism with "hey man I dunno why my predecessors did that either" or something. I thought his play was fairly pro-town. Yeah, some of my reasoning was that you could have made an awesome bussing of JB. I kind of listed up this incredible scenario where both of you were scum For layabout I guess the only one who had him anywhere near scum was me. And the only reason for that was that I was pissed off at him. So yeah, I guess vaderseven either facepalmed hard or laughed his ass off after that pm (me guessing the first )
So I was actually in touch with V7 basically constantly throughout the game. I communicated with him via AIM mostly and got feedback all the time. I found it to be super helpful to do this, especially since I could be like "hey I think this post is inconsistent with his post, etc etc" and copy and paste and get instant response. He was very good about it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I also feel like the mafia need a coach who's in sync with them time zone wise. Like, 2 of them were on australian time and one of them was on UK time I think? And the coach, BC, was on US time. I was looking through their QT and it would be like several hours of mafia like trying to figure out what to do, then doing it, and sometimes they'd be on at the same time as the coach and he'd offer feedback, and other times he'd be on but they wouldn't so he'd drop some big posts of advice.
Like, when bluelightz had pressure on him, both he and the BC were online, and BC talked him through a credible defense. But he was not online during parts of the JB argument with me. It wasn't until later that he was online, and I was tunneling JB pretty hard at that point. I feel like if the mafia coach and scumteam had the same timezone, or at least more compatible ones, JB's defense would have been more like bluelightz, and overall things would have been better. I understand this is largely a problem of like logistics and # of coaches, but it's a thought for later student games.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 17 2011 03:39 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 03:03 Tunkeg wrote:Yeah, some of my reasoning was that you could have made an awesome bussing of JB. I kind of listed up this incredible scenario where both of you were scum It did kinda work. The parallel-universe BH scum masterplan: 1. Pressure lurkers hard through day 1, lynch a marginal lurker. 2. Meanwhile JB blatantly and repeatedly defends BKEXE. 3. Beg for medics, softclaim DT. 4. String up JB, who offers himself up for the slaughter with a laughable scumslip. 5. String up the now obvious candidate, BKEXE. 6. And we're down to 5 town vs 2 mafia, with town having absolutely no idea what's going on. I stared at BH's posts for quite a while though and I couldn't see any hint of him being anything but genuine. Didn't seem plausible with that sort of post count.
The only danger in a plan like that (besides the fact that I have to post a lot and not slip up) is that my soft claim of DT was my way of telling the real DT that I was a Doctor and I was drawing all the roleblocks. If I'm a mafia guy, there's some chance we'll accidentally kill or shoot the real Doctor (or he'll save someone) and then i'll have some serious explaining to do.
Not a bad plan though. Bus day 2, then try to get 2-3 days of cred out of it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 17 2011 07:11 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 07:05 Tunkeg wrote:On December 17 2011 05:58 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 17 2011 03:03 Tunkeg wrote:On December 17 2011 02:48 Blazinghand wrote:On December 17 2011 02:44 Tunkeg wrote:On December 17 2011 02:37 Blazinghand wrote:On December 17 2011 02:32 Tunkeg wrote:On December 17 2011 00:13 vaderseven wrote:It was really fun coaching this game. Blazinghang, Tunkeg, and adam4167 were my 'students'. Blazinghand was fun to talk to and coach. Took a real ballsy approach to being a medic. He really stayed focused on scumhunting and was able to see past some things that normally distract from that. Tunkeg played a lower key game and I wish he had contacted me before that slapfight with layabout got the point it did. I think that interchange is a great lesson that everyone in this game can pick up on about aggression, slapfights, and how those things really dont indicate alignment and how they can be used as tools (in the case of aggresion) or distractions (slapfights). Adam died right as he was starting to use me. Thanks for caching man, and sorry for beeing such a bad student. I regret not using you more through out the entire game. In retrospect I should have run both the xsksc case and the probability lynch by you as well, and then I could have avoided them entirely . The entire bash with layabout was just completely silly, and was probably the single worst play of the game... Funny that you were BH's coach seeing the last pm I sent to you before the game ended What was it? Was it "I think BH is scum should I lynch him?" It was a resigned message where I QQ'ed about how badly town would lose if you and layabout were scum. And all possible reasons to why that just might be Well, you know, if I WERE scum, I could have easily forced a mislynch day 4, and uh... yeah. Things would have been bad. That being said, I probably would have been less adamant about the JB Lynch on day 2 wifom wifom wifom wifom etc. I actually was not suspicious of Layabout, just because he was really putting himself out there-- I mean, I didn't think "oh he must be town" but he was putting some serious effort into his arguments, and given that he was coming in from being a replacement of a replacement, if he was scum he could be fairly cautious and respond to any criticism with "hey man I dunno why my predecessors did that either" or something. I thought his play was fairly pro-town. Yeah, some of my reasoning was that you could have made an awesome bussing of JB. I kind of listed up this incredible scenario where both of you were scum For layabout I guess the only one who had him anywhere near scum was me. And the only reason for that was that I was pissed off at him. So yeah, I guess vaderseven either facepalmed hard or laughed his ass off after that pm (me guessing the first ) If your theory about a player necessarily includes "awesome bussing" (particularly in a newbie game) you're probably thinking too hard and incorrectly. From a scum perspective it hurts a lot more to lose a single player than town. Scum don't need to bus in order to win, and in fact they usually rarely do it. I for one hate bussing; I only do it when absolutely necessary. This would only be true for me if my teammate was caught and there was no foreseeable way of saving him without taking massive suspicion. At that point you bus. If you can find reasonable evidence for such a situation, you might have a theory. Nothing like that existed in this game, IIRC, so you go with the simplest explanation; BH and Jay could not both be scum. I agree. I think I approached the game wrong, and missed the real reads while making some bad cases based to much on speculations and what-ifs. But wouldn't you bussing as number one be a great meta move in a game where the other players know you? Ofcourse depending on set up and the current state of the game. Or is it in your opinion allways more valuable to have the extra scum player?
I think it's almost always better to have an extra scum player. Starting the wagon yourself is only a good idea if you know he's going down anyways (somehow). The idea is, retain scum players whenever possible. I think the whole deal is like, trying to prevent the LYLO from moving further into the future whenever possible.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Also, despite taking some minor heat, JB was not suspect at all until I latched onto him, barnacle-like, and clung for 60 hours. It would be one thing if he had been acting very suspicious, and was probably gonna get wagoned as soon as the sun came up, and I took the intiative, or was 2nd on the wagon, riding shotgun, or whatever-- it would be an example of mitigating the inevitable JB loss. This was not an inevitable JB Day 2 lynch, which is why it was unlikely to be a bus. Don't rule it out, of course, but it's unlikely.
On December 17 2011 07:27 Adam4167 wrote:
I think almost everyone wanted to hang BH at one point or another during this game.
Myself, ey215 on day 1, Grack and BKEXE in the obs thread, tunkeg on day 4 and the mafia team probably wanted it all game. Popular man!
You can't lynch an omelet without pissing off some eggs, as they say.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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EPT
