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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Let's take look at the possibilities here:
EB and Adam both scum: EB is trying to avoid voting for Adam
EB Scum and Adam Town: EB is trying to delay voting and trying to add uncertainty to the vote to create more noise and make it more difficult to see who's being helpful and who's not during this vote, interfering in town cohesion.
EB Town: EB is a terrible townie who, while he may not have time to share his information, apparently has time to vaguely hint at it, and while he claims to feel comfortable making a vote, actually isn't so.
I think EB is scum or an unrealistically, unbelievably bad townie, and we'll be better off without him.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it.
On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night.
Ladies and gentlemen, case closed. EB's just trying to spite me? Trying to spite THE TOWN? We need him out. He's worse than a lurker.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Like, even if he feels some personal animosity for me, he's actively refusing to even pretend to contribute. If he can't put the town ahead of some minor personal thing (something that other townies like EY and myself have been able to do) he's either mafia or an anti-town townie. I'm gonna go through his filter and see if I can find anything at all useful that he's said. This shouldn't take too long.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
The case for ElectricBlack
On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.So hurry up. What kind of a bullshit vote is this. If you're gonna attack me for not posting, do it in a way that actually has even a slight chance of putting any kind of fear into me. If you explicitly state your pressure targets can get rid of your votes easily, then there is no pressure, and thus no dire need to respond to the situation. Next time you pressure me or anyone else, convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people actually respond in the way you want them up. Don't include a get out of jail free card in your post. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy.
Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. Why not? Despite his methods being somewhat flawed, he's doing a helluvalot better job than the rest of town in creating discussion. Only problem with him is that he's not convincing enough in his voting spree. If I was scum I'd actually feel pretty safe ignoring him. However, it seems likely he is town, unless he has a really good scumcoach, because I'm not sure scum would draw all this attention to themselves right out of the gates.
Some harsh criticism for my methods, and this is what he says: "convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people resopnd in the way you want them"
(note: I'd already unvoted him at the time of his post On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:
##Unvote ElectricBlack
So, he says that i'm doing a good job, but that my method is ineffective. He then contributes nothing else to the thread until this gem...
On December 05 2011 10:16 ElectricBlack wrote:
Lurking is not the same thing as simply being unavailable, which is what has been stopping me from posting today.
I'm catching up with the thread at the moment. I'm going to read extensively up on the current lynch targets and see if I agree with any of them.
Equivocation. Nothing useful here.
And now for his famous non-vote:
On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning.
Why no explanation? okay, it's late. Lateness happens. But not time for a vote? why the stalling? Why not lay down a vote and put your money where your mouth is? Why delay, when we have many people in different time zones? We already have enough trouble coordinating as it is.,,
So, you know what? I do what he told me would get results. I threaten him with death, as HE CLAIMED is the best way to convince people...
On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it.
And apparently, his method of convincing doesn't work-- on himself. And when someone asks politely?
On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night.
This is clearly stalling, refusing to even lay down a vote, but willing to aggressively lead us along. This is anti-town. He is inconsistent with himself about what he thinks I should do, and what he does.
He's either scum or a terrible player. Vote ElectricBlack and our town will be better.
I am sure of this.
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Hey BH what is up with this?
On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well.
You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hey BH what is up with this? Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well. You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information?
What? how could I possibly know he wasn't going to vote before he refused to vote? >.>
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While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
He also stated in his first post that breadcrumbing is bad. While it is bad if it lets the mafia know that you're the blue role, it's important to get people's names into post so that if you're blue and get shot we can go back and figure out the people you've checked out.
I'm fine with applying some pressure.
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack
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Oh Sorry I thought they were in two different posts.
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On December 05 2011 11:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hey BH what is up with this? Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well. You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information?
Yeah, I'm missing this too. What the heck are you talking about BK?
ElecticBlack's post:
On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning.
He says he's more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than everyone else then doesn't vote (as most of us have). Isn't that what Blazing's calling him out for?
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On December 05 2011 11:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Oh Sorry I thought they were in two different posts.
Crap, too slow thread's moving a bit in the last few minutes.
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He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam
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No, I thought BH was only calling him out because he refused to vote. It turns out that EB says that he will tell BH about his evidence to lynch Hassy in the same message that he told him he would vote in the morning. I thought BH had the information beforehand, but did not tell anyone.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam
Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially.
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OK I am back. My unavailability was unfortunate but has now come to an end. I will be present and posting from this point out.
Firstly, before I thoroughly comb the thread, I feel like I need to respond to Blazinghand:
My reaction to your aggression, Blazinghand, was shitty and misguided. I am not going to blame alcohol as I would have reacted in a similar fashion had I been sober. I am defensive by nature. I questioned your motives, but with a clearer head I can only come to the conclusion that your motives are to generate posts from everybody and get people talking to draw out mistakes from scum.
Expect a thorough analysis in the coming hours. I have a lot of reading to catch up on.
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On December 05 2011 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially.
Yeah that's why it's such a hard decision between them.
Right now I feel like Adam is more likely to flip scum and that EB will flip shitty townie.
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Alright, bedtime. For those that aren't in college don't ever take a 7 AM class. Trust me, it's not fun. I may be able to post some from school or phone tomorrow but it's possible that I won't be back on until 3 PM Eastern or so after a doctor's appointment tomorrow.
G'night all.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:33 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially. Yeah that's why it's such a hard decision between them. Right now I feel like Adam is more likely to flip scum and that EB will flip shitty townie.
It's possible EB is a fool and not a knave; but if he is a fool he's enough of one to appear a knave, and flagrantly so.
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This is my list of reads/thoughts/general opinnions about people for the first half of day 1.
Adam4167
Possible lynch
Looks like a major candidate for the lynch at the moment. I wouldn't strongly disagree with this, his small ammount of posts don't bode well for him. I do have trouble believing a noobie scum would actively pick a fight with 2 of towns leading figures, that doesn't make sense to me.
BByte
Unsure
He has only 4 posts with a decent ammount of content, not a lot to go on.
Velinath seems a bit of a weird target to go after though, and BByte's case on him seems a bit half-assed.
On December 05 2011 09:20 BByte wrote:
My strongest scum read so far is Velinath.
He has been active (very much so actually), but what has he contributed? Some policy discussion, a bit of finger pointing (mostly to spark activity), some fluff. Mostly he has been following other people's ideas, not making his own calls. All of this is something scum could easily do with very little risk.
Then there are a couple of posts of light analysis. His "reads post" sums it up best
How does half town, half null reads with a couple of unsures thrown in help the town in any way? Even those unsure reads are off people who have been previously called out by others. Everything seems very non-committal.
#Vote Velinath
Velinath's posts are a a little fluffy, but I'm not getting a scum read on him, at least not from your case. I don't think Velinath is a good day 1 lynch, at least not for the moment.
Blazinghand
Leaning town
Blazinghand so far has been very aggressive, which is good for town. He started out a little over-the-top, attacking europeans who were at that time asleep. On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping. So hurry up.
He has since made much more sense, forced the lurkers to unburrow, got some active discussion going, which is all pro-town.
Nobody is confirmed town until they flip, but I think he's working hard to be pro-town.
BroodKingEXE
Town lurker/Maybe Scum
A lot of one liners and a list. Really, not a lot to go on with this guy either -_-
Possible candidate for a lurker-lynch, if we go down that path.
ElectricBlack
Scum
This guy would be a GREAT lynch.
On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning.
On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:
Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you.
I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it.
On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night.
He claims to be happy lynching Hassybaby, but when the pressure is put on him to put action behind words, he get's pissed off and doesn't vote to SPITE town? That's so fucking incredibly anti-town. He better have a good defence ready when he wakes up.
ey215
Town?
First post of his to take note of is this :
On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Posting in between games of LoL.
So, we're asked our opinion on what we think about LaL and lynching lurkers, I share mine and then get called out for doing nothing but posting fluff? Would you rather we discuss the weather or just /random a lynch for the first day? The reason I talked about common sense is the last game youngmini got a lot of support for being lynched (Palmar mayor killed him) for essentially a misstatement.
Yes, that kind of stuff does need to be pointed out. There's no reason to lynch someone for a misstatement. It is not unwritten or does not go without saying unless we actually agree to it.
As for you're statements about lynching all lurkers unless someone gives you a "DAMN GOOD REASON', well having a scumread is one. Am I good with lynching a lurker today, sure but let's not go talking about how you've got a good scum read on anyone that's posted once.
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
I'm fine with a lurker today, but I'm not deciding on which until closer to the deadline.
He's very defensive at the slightest pressure, which is interesting, but by itself isn't scummy.
His later posts look pro-town
On December 05 2011 07:00 ey215 wrote:
No one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Go back and read my filter I have argued that we need to be looking at quality of posts over quantity of posts. With that being said, it's hard as hell to have a solid scum read on anyone day one, and if I have to make a choice I'm choosing someone not posting, or posting hardly anything of consequence to lynch over someone that has been active.
You don't lynch for information, you lynch scum. Barring having a good read, we should get rid of someone not contributing since they're not doing anything to help the town anyways.
I haven't seen anything really suspicious or scummy out of him. On my townie list for now.
Grackaroni Hassybaby Jaybrundage xtfftc
Neutral
These guys all seem to fall under the same category. They aren't looking incredibly pro-town, but there's not much scummy about them either. I'll leave them here for now.
Tunkeg
Suspicious
This guy jumps straight into the thread, with his first post being a list of reads.
On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
Hi guys, then I am up and awake, and have read through the entire thread.
Lynch all liars/Lynch all lurkers
My view here is lynch all confirmed liars, if you claim something that is proven wrong you must die. On lynch all lurkers, all non-poster/few posts must die. Thats all I have to say about policy lynches.
Now for the game so far, this is my view:
Adam 4167: Did the first post of the thread and a policy post. Not much content this far. That beeing said he is from Australia and have probably slept through most of the game this far.
Grackorini: Made some filler post and some policy lynch posts this far. Would like to see him get more into the game.
Velinath: Is the big time poster in this game so far, together with Blazinghand and ey215. In the beginning alot of no-content posts and alot of posts about policy lynches. Have picked it up by the end of this thread, and are actually beeing helpful for town now.
xtfftc Besides one post discussing policy votes the rest of the post have been filler posts. Expect him to get more active now as he is EU.
xsksc: Is taking on the role of an educator this far. Telling us noobs how this game works. This gives him a strong position, and a easily abused position. So far his posts have been educationally and only that. I expect more from a "veteran" like you. Post some analysis, do more, help us scumhunt!
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
ey215: After Blazinghand started pressure him he have started making posts that benefits town. Abit defensive and emotional.
Blazinghand: MVP of the game thus far. He is pressuring people and is the one getting the discussions started. I like this agressive play, town needs it! That beeing said, it can quickly go over the top and go from beeing pro town, to making a bad town environment.
BroodKingEXE Mostly filler posts. Have already been pressured, and rightfully so. Need to start making usefull posts.
Bbyte, ElectricBlack and Hassybaby Time to wake up and post!
4 posts later....
On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:Of course. Some of the answers I have asked I have summarized in my opening post. But I will be more spesific about my thoughts on players alignment and who I at this moment would lynch if I had: AlignmentFor a starter I don't think the scum players have been all that active yet. Adam4167 Neutral. Got to little info on him, only 2 posts. Abit scummy that he makes the first post after the game starts, and then do nothing (almost) when the discussions get going. Grackorini Neutral. Not a whole lot of posts here either. Mainly policy posts, but I agree on his point of view here. And I am leaning town here. Velinath Neutral. Leaning town. Alot of posts, some of them I see as pro town, but also alot of fillers whic I see as pro scum. xtfftc Neutral. Abit to many policy posts for my liking. The other posts are ok/good. Especially this last post where you called me out I see as very pro-town (Unless you are scum and think my ramblings are bad for town  ) xsksc Scum. If I had to pick three scums right now xsksc would be my third pick, I'd say more based on a hunch and not so much reasoning. It is his way of gaining trust, while not really providing any pressure to anyone or other pro town activities. jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town. ey215 Town. Even though coming of as very defensive, his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand. Blazinghand Town. Aggreessive play, scumhunting. May be spreading his votes around to much, but for now I see him as the most towniest. BroodKingEXE Neutral, leaning scum. He is posting far to little, but I think it is because he is new. Hopefully if more people challange him with direct questions it will be easier to get a read on him. He is the fourth scummiest though. ElectricBlack Neutral. One post, hard to say anything. Needs to post more or be considered a lurker. Hassybaby Scum. Another veteran, and this one have not posted yet. [b]Bbyte[b] Neutral, leaning town. Not many posts yet. But seems open and are answering questions given to him. Trust and lynchAt this point I trust no one, I know to little yet. For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO.
Suddenly I go from "town educator" in your first list to being on your scum list based off a hunch. Between the time of your two read posts, what did I post to change your mind so drastically? Where did you get this "hunch"? This is what I find suspicious, in a short ammount of time your reads change for almost no reason, with nothing to back it up, please provide more reasoning and analysis as to why you came to those conclusions in the future.
Velinath
Leaning town
It's been mentioned that this guy seems to be echoing what others have already said. I wouldn't disagree with this, but I'm not putting him on my scum list just because he posts fluff. At least he IS posting a large ammount, which gives us more stuff to work with on day 2 than the guys with 5-10 posts. He's active, and he's trying to be pro-town. I'll put him on the townie list for now.
I think that's everyone, so far the game has been good for town I think, plenty of discussion and pressure.
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Also, I will be voting for ElectricBlack, unless his defence is good I don't see a better lynch right now. Doing something to spite, in a game of mafia, is fucking dumb.
##Vote: ElectricBlack
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On December 05 2011 11:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:33 Grackaroni wrote:On December 05 2011 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 11:28 Grackaroni wrote:
He seems like an emotional and useless townie to me.
We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially. Yeah that's why it's such a hard decision between them. Right now I feel like Adam is more likely to flip scum and that EB will flip shitty townie. It's possible EB is a fool and not a knave; but if he is a fool he's enough of one to appear a knave, and flagrantly so.
It seems like a pretty stupid strategy for a scum player to behave like he did. His attitude alone makes people want to vote for him. That said If Adam makes some solid analysis I will switch my vote.
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EPT
