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On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game.
It wasn't me it was Adam:
On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
There are still 5 hours left to the voting deadline. I hope to hear XTF's stance on JB.
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On December 09 2011 04:33 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well. Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB. Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
My Original Case for JB: On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
THE NEW MATERIAL: Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough. Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging. A page later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay. This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum) Finally, talking to ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day. It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing. Where do you stand?
I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon.
At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE)
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On December 09 2011 04:35 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:21 xtfftc wrote:I've been looking at EY for a very long time now :D I can carry on with analysing his posts though; there's a lot of stuff to be looked at. But the reason I think a lynch on one of those I find suspicious over the one I see as more townie is that I think the probability is bigger for succeeding in hitting scum. Yeah but this defeats the whole purpose of your probabilities analysis. If you agree that lynching them for doing something a lot of people did, then you can simply reduce your argument to "there's bound to be mafia on the Bbyte lynch, so I'm going to exclude the ones I consider to be townies and will take a closer look at the rest." I'm sure you can see why I have an issue with your logic: you value my vote on Bbyte the same as xsksc, even though I spend a lot of time fighting against it and xsk jumped on board in the blink of an eye. Of course, if I'm mafia I may have faked it in order to have an alibi for the Bbyte lynch - but in this case you should be analysing the reasoning I provided and not the actual vote. Good, go for EY then 
Kk, I'll pick up from when I left my case yesterday.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 04:53 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:33 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well. Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB. Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
My Original Case for JB: On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
THE NEW MATERIAL: Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough. Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging. A page later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay. This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum) Finally, talking to ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day. It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing. Where do you stand? I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE)
So, you consider Jay more likely to be scum than not, or more likely to be sum than someone in particular? Just more likely than Adam?
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Looking at him as an individual, he is one of the three scummiest (along with EY and xsk), so I consider him more likely to be mafia than not. Looking at him in the context of the potential mafia teams I see, I find his team (Jay, BKE, and one of xsk/EY) more likely than the alternative (xsk/EY/Adam).
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:33 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Tunkeg i would like your input on my case against Veli and BH In closing I have a question to Velinath and Blazinghand: You two led the lynch on BByte, now you are leading the lynch on jaybrundage. If this is also a misslynch can you see how this will lead the rest of us to be suspicious towards you? Is your reads on jaybrundage strong enough that you are willing to put your head on the block for it? If not, do you think it is fair that you two are tunneling so hard on him?
I know I've already responded to this but I thought I'd just add something: In the immeasurably unlikely event that JB somehow flips town, I would characterize it as "profoundly unwise" to lynch me with that as the sole reason, simply because after Night 2 we'll be down to 9 players-- 6 town, 3 mafia-- and if we waste day 3 killing me, by day 4 it will be 4 town, 3 mafia (unless we have a medic, he lives, and he saves someone somewhere).
I'm repeatedly stressed that people need to think carefully about their JB votes. I personally believe he is obvious scum. But I challenge every person in this game to think for themselves whenever possible. It's players like xtffc, tunkeg, etc, who are willing to sink time into serious analysis of players, who will ultimately win this game. I do a decent job of producing evidence and pressuring people, but this is just one part of the equation. If people want to just vote with me, so be it-- I will hunt down and kill every mafia member personally on the strength of my own analysis should that be required.
But I also want everyone who votes to justify their vote and explain their reasoning as much as possible before the deadline. I'd personally appreciate it if everyone who didn't vote for JB also justified why they're NOT convinced by their case on JB (again, before the deadline). The reason I say this is that the mafia have an enormously difficult time doing this, since they know whether or not any individual player is town, and asking for analysis and justification like this with every vote puts a lot of pressure on them and gives them opportunities to be human, and make mistakes.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:10 xtfftc wrote:
Looking at him as an individual, he is one of the three scummiest (along with EY and xsk), so I consider him more likely to be mafia than not. Looking at him in the context of the potential mafia teams I see, I find his team (Jay, BKE, and one of xsk/EY) more likely than the alternative (xsk/EY/Adam).
I see. So you think he's solidly scummy, and you have some potential teams you think he is a part of. However, you consider ey215 to be scummier, which is why your vote is on ey215. Is this an accurate representation of your views?
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Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it.
You mention there are some non-covered bits. Are those non-covered bits covered in this quote? Any particular bits you want to add? I understand that I'm badgering but you happen to be around and it's always good to get people's positions nailed down.
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On December 09 2011 04:47 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game. It wasn't me it was Adam: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense.
Thanks Tunk, been a bit in and out and hadn't had time to find the post.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:45 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:47 Tunkeg wrote:On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game. It wasn't me it was Adam: On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Thanks Tunk, been a bit in and out and hadn't had time to find the post.
So what do you think of BKEXE's largely illegible posts? I initially believed that they were a literal figurative smokescreen to push my analysis off of the front page and make it hard for people to find my summary post. However, they're so poorly formatted it's possible he just couldn't find the preview button. Still, I think he was scum trying to literally cover JB.
Good analysis or bad, and why?
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I've read through EY's filter and I do sense some scumevibe. He have been in on every bandwagon. He came into BByte lynch as a fifth vote and on jay as fourth vote (reaassuring these votes come through without sticking his head out to much). He haven't really been sticking his head out to much for the entire game (except the BH arguement). And finally he is on my probability list. Therefor I will vote for ey215.
##Vote ey215
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On December 09 2011 05:31 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it. You mention there are some non-covered bits. Are those non-covered bits covered in this quote? Any particular bits you want to add? I understand that I'm badgering but you happen to be around and it's always good to get people's positions nailed down.
They are now.
Posting my update on EY in a minute, then I'm going offline for tonight.
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On December 09 2011 05:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:45 Velinath wrote:On December 09 2011 04:47 Tunkeg wrote:On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game. It wasn't me it was Adam: On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Thanks Tunk, been a bit in and out and hadn't had time to find the post. So what do you think of BKEXE's largely illegible posts? I initially believed that they were a literal figurative smokescreen to push my analysis off of the front page and make it hard for people to find my summary post. However, they're so poorly formatted it's possible he just couldn't find the preview button. Still, I think he was scum trying to literally cover JB. Good analysis or bad, and why?
Two things. First, I don't think he was trying to push your analysis off, as he ended up quoting quite a bit of it. Now, that said, I do think that the content itself (after finally being able to tell what part of his post was actually his) was extremely lacking. It feels in keeping with his other recent posts - as a weak attempt to bus JB to fit in with the town. No matter how you slice it, BKEXE feels scummy.
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Okay, I'm nowhere near finishing this, so I'm calling it a night. Enjoy:
ey215.
The part from yesterday
Let's continue:
On December 04 2011 15:53 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, you'll note I've been nothing but incredibly polite to everyone except for you, who has been incredibly dickish to me. I would assert that I am creating a tense atmosphere attempting to draw out the mafia, but any combativeness here is coming from you, who keeps on trying to escalate our difference of opinion in a flame war.
Prove me wrong about you, EY. Let's be friends. Fine be me, I do share some responsibility in the escalations and apologize. I felt like your first post on me was an attack and the following posts did not help. I have no problem working together to win this thing, I just fear a single personality taking over the discussion and will keep yo uin check if I think I need to. It's not a personal thing, just wanting what's best for winning this thing. I think as long as we both understand that we'll get along just fine.
Said he'll keep BH in check if he thinks he needs to, so that BH would take charge of the thread. Let's examine:
On December 05 2011 11:16 Blazinghand wrote:
The case for ElectricBlack
On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote:
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack
BH posted at 11:16, EY - 11:19
Next:
On December 06 2011 03:35 Blazinghand wrote:
##Vote BByte
On December 06 2011 06:43 ey215 wrote:
Ok, finally got back to the thread after a long day. I apologize that I haven't been back sooner.
On December 06 2011 07:08 ey215 wrote:
##Unvote: ElectircBlack
##Vote: BByte
This one caught EY while he was inactive for a long period of time. However, it only took him half an hour after coming back to catch up with what's been going on and to vote for Bbyte (6:43 - 7:08).
Next:
On December 07 2011 10:02 Blazinghand wrote:
##Vote: jaybrundage
On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:Ok, back from my final. For those that might care I think it went well. (..........) ##vote: jaybrundage
Notice the pattern? Staying inactive > coming back to do whatever the most vocal player in the thread is proposing. + Show Spoiler +Please note that this particular post is one of my favourite and I've discussed it already and will discuss it again in the future.
There's other examples as well. True, BH has been pretty dominating at some points, and some players did try to do something to remind him to keep the discussion pro-town. I did, for example:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 04:57 xtfftc wrote:
BH and Velinath, I think you should take a step back from Jay. You've made a very extensive case on him and the last few pages have turned into a farce with all the shouting. Unless you come up with something good to add, it might be better if you encourage other people to post their views on the issue or get another discussion going.
EY only felt that he had to keep BH in check while BH was on his back.
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His "reads" on everyone. Basically he posted half a sentence on everyone describing what this player has been doing instead of analysing it - and also made sure to apologise prior to writing the list.
Ok, just got back to the thread and I'll respond to things as I see them. I agree that we've reached a consensus to get rid of a lurker. That means lurkers, it's your time to step up and contribute.
We never agreed on getting rid of a lurker. We agreed on getting rid of a lurker if we didn't have a strong enough case on someone active.
More about EY on lynching lurkers:
No one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Go back and read my filter I have argued that we need to be looking at quality of posts over quantity of posts. With that being said, it's hard as hell to have a solid scum read on anyone day one, and if I have to make a choice I'm choosing someone not posting, or posting hardly anything of consequence to lynch over someone that has been active.
You don't lynch for information, you lynch scum. Barring having a good read, we should get rid of someone not contributing since they're not doing anything to help the town anyways.
I'm pretty sure I've been consistent since my first post that I think if we don't have a solid read we should lynch a lurker. Also that we shouldn't lynch a lurker if we do have a more solid scum read. I know it's a nuanced position but one that I think makes sense. My second post essentially says the same thing.
Again, EY acts as if he's agreeing with us on lynching a lurker if we don't have a proper case. However, here he is doing the same thing he did earlier: trying to twist the thing we agreed on (lynching lurkers if no better options are available) into an inevitable outcome for town (it is "hard as hell" to catch a mafia on Day 1, so we should get ready to lynch a lurker).
On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote:
While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
I'm fine with applying some pressure.
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack
You don't pressure people by telling them you're pressuring them. As soon as you say that something is just a pressure vote, you make it obvious that you don't plan to stick with it and thus you make your vote worthless. This is typical non-commital mafia play. Not to mention that EY makes sure to excuse himself from all possible blame before saying whatever he plans to.
While re-reading the thread, I found this very nice summary of EY done by Adam:
Note: the bold is from me
Ey215 has been pressed much like myself from the get-go and also reacted defensively. I cannot fault him for this as Blazinghand was being obnoxious towards him. The vote he places on me is understandable, but also unsupported. He claims to have no read on anyone at the moment and that I am probably the best candidate as a result (this is how bandwagons pickup speed..) (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12591630). After the ElectricBlack incident he applies ‘pressure’ (his vote) to EB. His votes seem to come without a great deal of support behind them, other then the fact that “everyone else was doing it”, this really presents me with a null read as he’s either a mafia getting momentum on a wagon or a townie sheeping. He was willing to give me the benefit of the doubt for a while; I will afford him the same courtesy.
While Adam's conclussion - pointing out some major issues with EY's play and then deciding to give him "the benefit of the doubt" out of "courtesy" - is pretty bad, the summary itself is good.
+ Show Spoiler +As a side note - this seems to be a very pro-town post by Adam, I will have to do some more reading on him as well.
I'm about halfway through but I have to finish for tonight.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Overall this looks like a pretty solid case but I do have a difference of opinion here
On December 09 2011 07:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote:
While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
I'm fine with applying some pressure.
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack You don't pressure people by telling them you're pressuring them. As soon as you say that something is just a pressure vote, you make it obvious that you don't plan to stick with it and thus you make your vote worthless. This is typical non-commital mafia play. Not to mention that EY makes sure to excuse himself from all possible blame before saying whatever he plans to.
I caused enough people to flip out by pressuring them that I'm fairly sure it's effective, even if they know I'll unvote them if they do XYZ. HE DOES seem to be abdicating responsibility for his vote as he makes it, though, and trying to place it on me. I'm going to wait to see JB's flip because 1) I'm very anxious and 2) I want to write some balling posts.
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Well looks like im about to be lynched.
Sorry i have been a bit inactive recently.
Another mislynch sad state for town
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Oh and i think grack is town
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EPT
