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So he is reading the whole thread and agrees with you on all your points on chaoser, right? Cool.
You built a huge case on chaoser, most of which I think is no indication at all of scum behaviour. The main thing that is bothering me about chaoser's team is the fact that he was posting so much when his ass was on the line, despite saying he would not be playing so activily, coupled with the fact that hyshes is gone after causing suspicion to be placed on his team. That is indeed suspicious behaviour from the team as a whole, but a couple other things like hyshes openess in the beginning and chaoser's posts make me lean town on them.
You on the other hand completely dismissed the case you build on chaoser despite claiming both you and your teamate being on the same page on it. All of that because I pointed to the fact that were you town your team was the most obvious shot. The bullshit about blue snipe makes no sense. Your team had the same chance of being medic/jailer as igrok's team or any other team. It makes no sense that scum would leave you alive to try to push your team today, as you had no previous suspicion on you before. Scum is not willing to fight this uphill battle and expose themselves in the process. This is a fact: If your team is town your team was the best shot by far based on both skill and activity. That's not equal you are scum by itself, since scum not always play optimaily and can sometimes try to be tricky. But it IS a reason to be suspicious. What really points toward you being scum is you dismissing your case and changing your vote because I called one team another name. That says shit about my aligment and is no reason to vote. You are pushing scum agenda since you are voting whoever is suspicious of you, and not looking at the big picture of who is saying things with scum mentality (which is you).
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On November 07 2011 04:16 sandroba wrote:
You on the other hand completely dismissed the case you build on chaoser despite claiming both you and your teamate being on the same page on it. All of that because I pointed to the fact that were you town your team was the most obvious shot. The bullshit about blue snipe makes no sense. Your team had the same chance of being medic/jailer as igrok's team or any other team. It makes no sense that scum would leave you alive to try to push your team today, as you had no previous suspicion on you before. Scum is not willing to fight this uphill battle and expose themselves in the process. This is a fact: If your team is town your team was the best shot by far based on both skill and activity. That's not equal you are scum by itself, since scum not always play optimaily and can sometimes try to be tricky. But it IS a reason to be suspicious. What really points toward you being scum is you dismissing your case and changing your vote because I called one team another name. That says shit about my aligment and is no reason to vote. You are pushing scum agenda since you are voting whoever is suspicious of you, and not looking at the big picture of who is saying things with scum mentality (which is you).
Actually, I'm not dismissing my case.
I still think chaoser is a good vote, but you have become a better vote simply because you're not reading the thread. You're almost forsure scum because of that fact.
The only other game in which you played like this as town was SMG, but in that game you were still reading the thread and making sense. Whenever you posted, I agreed with you. Here, I agree with less than half of the things you post, and you are clearly not reading the thread. Your excuse for not reading the thread and saying team switzerland is scum is that you mixed up the names.
Yeah, right.
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also, you of all people should know that I never fear changing my opinion as town.
In Resurrection, for example, I jumped all over Jackal after pushing Ace repeatedly for hours because of the simple reason that I didn't believe his claim. I still thought Ace was scummy but Jackal became the better lynch simply because his claim didn't make sense.
The fact that you think the consideration of new information is scummy is more an indicator of your alignment than it is of mine.
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On November 07 2011 04:25 wherebugsgo wrote:
also, you of all people should know that I never fear changing my opinion as town.
In Resurrection, for example, I jumped all over Jackal after pushing Ace repeatedly for hours because of the simple reason that I didn't believe his claim. I still thought Ace was scummy but Jackal became the better lynch simply because his claim didn't make sense.
The fact that you think the consideration of new information is scummy is more an indicator of your alignment than it is of mine.
So you're saying that Sandro killed Team Switzerland, AND THEN FORGOT ABOUT IT? lol.
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So tell me which evidence you have that I'm not reading the thread, because I am. Also tell which are the things you dissagree with me and how that makes me scum.
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On November 07 2011 04:26 sandroba wrote:
So tell me which evidence you have that I'm not reading the thread, because I am. Also tell which are the things you dissagree with me and how that makes me scum.
#1:
On November 06 2011 06:24 sandroba wrote:
Just throwing this out there: I belive mafia is amongst team nipple/edward/switzerland. All the other teams look town to me.
#2:
On November 06 2011 21:13 Radfield wrote:
Since Switzerland is dead, and Nipple is useless, does that mean you are willing to lynch Edward today?
Supersoft and Greymist, you guys need to ramp it up.
#3:
On November 06 2011 14:54 sandroba wrote:
Ok I gather you guys think each other is mafia but I'd like to see a well constructed argument from both of you. It's indeed suspicious that wbg/rad didn't get shot tonight, but honestly they have not been on my radar before the day shift. I want to hear more from hyshes/radfield aswell as rol.
You gather we are each mafia, but despite FoSing team Edward repeatedly you all of a sudden decide we're scum on the convenience that we didn't die.
Had you been reading the thread (and my posts) you would see precisely why chaoser was the best lynch. After asking for a case, you completely ignored it.
What do you have to say about my post on chaoser+hyshes? You didn't mention it at all despite asking for a case. Why would you be so apathetic, unless you're scum?
#4:
On November 06 2011 15:03 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 14:54 sandroba wrote:
Ok I gather you guys think each other is mafia but I'd like to see a well constructed argument from both of you. It's indeed suspicious that wbg/rad didn't get shot tonight, but honestly they have not been on my radar before the day shift. I want to hear more from hyshes/radfield aswell as rol. Previous game are irrelevant, but of course meta plays a role. The main thing making me lean towards chaoser scum right now is the fact that hyshes is totally gone and that is unexpected considering what chaoser said previously. Also RoL needs to post. I'm not afraid of lynching someone that doesn't give a fuck about this game, and you can bear the blame of the loss if you are town. Of all the things that make you suspicious of chaoser the fact that hyshes is MIA, which chaoser has no control over, is what makes you suspicious? Also if you had to lynch someone right now, in the next 15 minutes, who would you lynch?
Again, you take suspicion based almost solely on the hyshes half; GM pointed this out and this is good evidence that you are not actually reading the thread, sandro.
On November 07 2011 04:26 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 04:25 wherebugsgo wrote:
also, you of all people should know that I never fear changing my opinion as town.
In Resurrection, for example, I jumped all over Jackal after pushing Ace repeatedly for hours because of the simple reason that I didn't believe his claim. I still thought Ace was scummy but Jackal became the better lynch simply because his claim didn't make sense.
The fact that you think the consideration of new information is scummy is more an indicator of your alignment than it is of mine. So you're saying that Sandro killed Team Switzerland, AND THEN FORGOT ABOUT IT? lol.
Judging from his activity, I seriously doubt if he was mafia he would've sent in the hit.
There are four people who could potentially PM Palmar, just because sandro is scum doesn't mean he would have necessarily had to be the one to send in the hit.
You don't do very much either, decon. Your activity is just as bad as it was in PYP.
Sandro, things I disagree/disagreed with:
On November 04 2011 03:27 sandroba wrote:
Now, for what I said I would post about the setup: Kurumi has said it already. My sugestion is that we no lynch today and save a no lynch for later to prolong this game. This setup has a high chance of benefiting town and generating a lot of info the longer it goes. For people saying "if we don't lynch we have no chance of hitting scum". Sure, but whoever you thought is scummy isn't going to dissapear or if he does that's one saved mislynch. We are basically trading 2 nights of possible info for 1 shot in the dark day1. If someone here can say they are confident someone else is scum and prove it to us, I'm all for lynching. But despite having my suspicions I'm not willing to make this trade based on the odds I think I'm getting. I'd rather wait and no lynch today.
In addition, what's weird about this post in retrospect was that it wasn't an original idea.
For the longest time yesterday, I thought you were more town because I kept thinking the no-lynch idea came from you. In fact, the idea came from Kurumi and you parroted it. There was nothing original in this post, and I didn't agree with it to begin with.
When GM pointed it out in the thread, I became rather confused. In PYP, you parroted another unoriginal plan and you pushed it in the thread half-heartedly. You did the same thing this game, and that was suspicious.
I also saw the potential pro-town motivation of going for a no-lynch, but the behavior was too passive. Passive behavior will not catch us scum, and you put the idea out there and really put in no effort yesterday. You didn't even give us an option for lynch, you did nothing.
In the aftermath, you conveniently claimed that you thought team Edward would have been the best lynch (but in all honesty you wouldn't have lynched anyone at all!) That's an incredibly strange thing to say, it's pretty much a cop out and absolves you of all responsibility.
Then, this:
On November 07 2011 04:16 sandroba wrote:
You on the other hand completely dismissed the case you build on chaoser despite claiming both you and your teamate being on the same page on it. All of that because I pointed to the fact that were you town your team was the most obvious shot. The bullshit about blue snipe makes no sense. Your team had the same chance of being medic/jailer as igrok's team or any other team. It makes no sense that scum would leave you alive to try to push your team today, as you had no previous suspicion on you before. Scum is not willing to fight this uphill battle and expose themselves in the process. This is a fact: If your team is town your team was the best shot by far based on both skill and activity. That's not equal you are scum by itself, since scum not always play optimaily and can sometimes try to be tricky. But it IS a reason to be suspicious. What really points toward you being scum is you dismissing your case and changing your vote because I called one team another name. That says shit about my aligment and is no reason to vote. You are pushing scum agenda since you are voting whoever is suspicious of you, and not looking at the big picture of who is saying things with scum mentality (which is you).
The hypocrisy of this post is incredibly funny.
You accuse me of missing the big picture and "dismissing my case" when in reality, I just think you're a better choice when you basically confirmed to us that you don't care about town winning this game.
You see that "the bullshit about blue snipe makes no sense" when I provided you at least five different situations in which scum could've shot iGrok. You focus on one specific case when I mentioned several. You focus and twist my words to convenience you when in reality I said nothing of the sort. I offered possibilities, and the only people who are so sure of who scum would shoot and why are you and chaoser.
As I have said repeatedly, speculating on the night kill is useless. You claim that I speculate that iGrok was shot because of a blue snipe (not true, I don't know why iGrok was shot; I offered that situation as a possibility). Then you call my "speculation" that iGrok could've been shot because of a blue snipe is bullshit without seeing that your own speculation (and, by extension, chaoser's) is equally bull.
Then, finally, you achieve your agenda once again by misconstruing my vote switch as a dismissal of my case. My vote on you doesn't magically make chaoser town, and it doesn't make him worse as a candidate. My vote switch to you means I think you're more likely to be scum, on reevaluation of new information that is available.
The fact that you cannot see this is, again, more an indication of your alignment than mine.
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I'm really interested in GM's, super's, and kita's thoughts, since they are my best townreads at this point.
I'm going to be gone for a few hours though. Also, Radfield says he's still quite sick but he'll try to step it up by tomorrow. It kinda sucks because I was hoping I this game would be more of a partner discussion type of thing 
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United States22154 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:01 wherebugsgo wrote:I'm really interested in GM's, super's, and kita's thoughts, since they are my best townreads at this point. I'm going to be gone for a few hours though. Also, Radfield says he's still quite sick but he'll try to step it up by tomorrow. It kinda sucks because I was hoping I this game would be more of a partner discussion type of thing
I'm exceedingly busy helping run the first team liquid MLP Marathon I'll get back to you tonight, when we are done with this frenzy.
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scumteam is gm+wbg called it
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I've read your case on chaoser and said already that I don't think it is any good. The fact is that what tipped the edge on you thinking my team was a "better lynch" is that I confused one team name for another, which is ROFL.
Also I' was not speculating at all about igrok's kill. I was saying that it is a fact that if you and rad are town you would be the best shot. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.
Now onto some speculation, blue sniping is shit in such a small game. Blues are not going to be inactive because they are trying to hide, since because there are so few players their behaviour will be extremelly exposed as oposed to a huge game when they can blend in. That's not to say it wasn't the case, but the whole point of this game is determining which scenarios are most likely. I can't find any good reasoning for igrok/bum kill besides you guys being scum. If scum wanted to simply push more suspicion onto my team they could have killed you guys either way and igrok would prob vote for me today.
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On November 07 2011 05:23 redFF wrote:
scumteam is gm+wbg called it
Thats what I though initially, but now I'm leaning towards Chezinu+Nipple. GM had no reason to defend me+sandro yesterday, so I'm not sure why he would do that as mafia. Still you guys should be able to check one of them to find the last scum.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 07 2011 06:02 redFF wrote:
##VOte Team Chezinu
Oh no you didn't!
##Unvote
##Vote Team SS
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ah well. I love to commentate on everyone in such a little game.
1. TEAM SS - (sandroba & Sevryn Deconduo)
I read the current discussion and sandroba doesn't look too bad in the dialogue with wbg.
Mainly because wbg mixes in some things that really aren't reasons to vote anyone.
Seriously bugs, this team switzerland thing. It was a typo. I won't vote any team for confusing the teamnames.
However team SS is #2 at my scumlist. They look really bad if you see the whole picture. I mean it's 5v2 now.
I know I am town, red21 is blue, wbg is very likely town and i have a strong townfeeling towards chaoser. By the process of elimination and the day1 passive behavior of sandro, i think team SS is scum.
2. TEAM CHEZINU - (Radfield & wherebugsgo)
as I said before. It's not useful to accuse people simply because they are "still" alive at day2. probably green
3. TEAM NIPPLE - (Kurumi & RebirthOfLeGenD)
oh well. Kurumis filter looks quite bad.
I reread the post where he proposed the nolynchplan and was curious what he did in addition to that. Besides like 3 apologyposts for inactivity, he says he's "rereading" the thread and "taking notes" and he came to the conclusion that team Viking is the best lynch. lol. #1 scum.
4. TEAM LIQUID - (Crofty & Gmarshal)
Crofty is unseen ever since. GM is busy now. He pushed 2 cases so far, both on townies.
Grey thinks i am too focussed on him but if Sandro is scum and Kuru isn't i am going to push his lynch for sure.
I mean if team SS is scum, GM peeled the public attention away from them perfectly by posting his red21 case.
5. TEAM S&G CONSULTING - (supersoft & GreYMisT)
...
6. TEAM EDWARD - (chaoser & hyshes)
difficult. I don't think they are scum. I hope chaoser comes back in here fast and continues to share his thoughts. I'd like to see some more out of him.
7. TEAM RED21 - (redFF & kitaman27)
these guys are blue. I have no doubt about that.
I wait for Greys opinion on that and if he agrees i am going to vote Kurumi/RoL
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On November 07 2011 07:00 supersoft wrote:
ah well. I love to commentate on everyone in such a little game.
1. TEAM SS - (sandroba & Sevryn Deconduo)
I read the current discussion and sandroba doesn't look too bad in the dialogue with wbg.
Mainly because wbg mixes in some things that really aren't reasons to vote anyone.
Seriously bugs, this team switzerland thing. It was a typo. I won't vote any team for confusing the teamnames.
However team SS is #2 at my scumlist. They look really bad if you see the whole picture. I mean it's 5v2 now.
I know I am town, red21 is blue, wbg is very likely town and i have a strong townfeeling towards chaoser. By the process of elimination and the day1 passive behavior of sandro, i think team SS is scum.
2. TEAM CHEZINU - (Radfield & wherebugsgo)
as I said before. It's not useful to accuse people simply because they are "still" alive at day2. probably green
3. TEAM NIPPLE - (Kurumi & RebirthOfLeGenD)
oh well. Kurumis filter looks quite bad.
I reread the post where he proposed the nolynchplan and was curious what he did in addition to that. Besides like 3 apologyposts for inactivity, he says he's "rereading" the thread and "taking notes" and he came to the conclusion that team Viking is the best lynch. lol. #1 scum.
4. TEAM LIQUID - (Crofty & Gmarshal)
Crofty is unseen ever since. GM is busy now. He pushed 2 cases so far, both on townies.
Grey thinks i am too focussed on him but if Sandro is scum and Kuru isn't i am going to push his lynch for sure.
I mean if team SS is scum, GM peeled the public attention away from them perfectly by posting his red21 case.
5. TEAM S&G CONSULTING - (supersoft & GreYMisT)
...
6. TEAM EDWARD - (chaoser & hyshes)
difficult. I don't think they are scum. I hope chaoser comes back in here fast and continues to share his thoughts. I'd like to see some more out of him.
7. TEAM RED21 - (redFF & kitaman27)
these guys are blue. I have no doubt about that.
I wait for Greys opinion on that and if he agrees i am going to vote Kurumi/RoL
Just did a breif re-read and I agree with you supersoft. Its not the fact that they havnt been posting as much (because I myself am guilty of that) but the fact that the posts they make contribute nothing to real scumhunting, or serve to sidetrack disscussion/focus on small details. I think i covered all the basics, but if I missed anything be sure to elaborate on my reasoning.
##Vote Team Nipple
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
After talking with red, we decided we have no interest in ignoring a team that has put in nearly zero effort this game.
##Unvote
##Vote Team Nipple
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I have also doubts about team SS and i think that chaoser also has this read. (We could not talk to eachother directly today since he was out and i was busy.. so we only posted in our QT)
But I'm not going to vote for team SS because:
i'm not 100% sure chaoser is fine with it. And if i vote on team SS they are on 3 votes (which would be L-1), to dangerous if i'm not sure my mate is fine with it.
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Ok, to clarify: kitaman27 post was not up yet when i started typing.
Even though his change in vote lowers the votecount on team SS to 1, i still find it dangerous to vote for them.
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Hyshes, if chaoser said no to vote team SS, who would be your next pick? disregarding what chaoser would think.
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EPT
