Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy - Page 39

hmmm...

I don't really know how to approach this post lol. I kinda like it I guess? But I dunno, something seems up with you, sandro. I can't really put my finger on it. Does anyone else feel this way?

I do, however, agree with this:



Next to chaoser, kurumi and RoL are one of the teams that is pretty up there in terms of scumminess. What's weird, though, is that you supported Kurumi's no-lynch plan and you are almost as inactive as Kurumi (albeit RoL has done literally nothing)

I'm not sure how to read sandro's team at this point, but I think they might be a good option.

Finally, here's a compilation of the chaoser+hyshes case, so it's easier for people to read. Also, big apologies for destroying a couple pages of the thread; I've been trying to reduce my postcount since XLV but it's obvious I haven't learned yet. I don't intend to spam or intimidate people out of posting their opinions. (quite the contrary, I like active contribution)



My suspicions on these two players started with this post, and it more or less describes the hyshes half:



First thing hyshes posts in the thread, and it basically suggests we should minimize mistakes at all costs. As I pointed out repeatedly, (as did prpl+Forumite) only scum want to minimize mistakes, and only scum are afraid of being caught. Townies should not be afraid of making mistakes because they really have nothing to fear. Townies can go out there and state their opinions freely; they do not need to be overly careful and they do not need to be deathly afraid of making mistakes.

Certainly, townies need to exercise judgment and restraint when they are wrong, but they never need to be afraid of being wrong. The behavior of hyshes certainly pushed the notion that he was afraid of being wrong, since he even posted afterward that he expected to be hailed as a genius for his plan.

Lastly, two more things hammered in my suspicion of hyshes. One was this post, the sole other "contribution" hyshes made to this game.



This was the vote that spawned the prpl+forumite bandwagon. We cannot forget this, as this is probably the single most important thing that happened yesterday. (yes, even more important than kita+redFF claiming PC)

The entire vote is based on the idea that Forumite and prpl were throwing their vote around on different players. Somehow, (even to chaoser) this became a scumtell. This vote was completely unreasoned, and to me it came across with a scum agenda; get the attention off of themselves by leading the lynch on someone else.

The fact that the vote lacks analysis (both on the part of hyshes and on the part of chaoser) is suggestive of the fact that prpl and Forumite were just scapegoats. Hyshes and chaoser picked a weak team to target and quickly relieved themselves of a lot of pressure.

In the end, the bandwagon worked and it saved them from a lynch.

The third and last thing that hyshes did was he disappeared after this. Just dropped off the face of the Earth, and he hasn't been here since. For a team that was supposed to be chaoser coaching hyshes, this is incredibly suspicious, particularly as chaoser has many times the number of posts hyshes has.

That doesn't sound like chaoser is coaching hyshes at all.

Now, the chaoser half:




This is the first post that originally stood out to me from chaoser. Highlighted are the important parts.

red=dismissed prpl's statement rather angrily (or so it appeared to me) without actually addressing his point. Prpl was stating that this game is not specifically a mentor-type game, with the implication that chaoser can't just cop out of being here because he's coaching hyshes. Chaoser instead takes offense to the statement that he got himself lynched as DT. (missing the point)

green=once again, missing the point. Chaoser focuses on the notion that the bad plan doesn't make hyshes scum, though he does nothing to address the motivation concerns. In fact, the crux of the argument against hyshes had nothing to do with the plan at all, but rather the reasoning behind the plan. This can be seen with prpl's reference to the fact that he thought, "it was conceived by a mafia mind." Also, he incorrectly and misleadingly exaggerates by implying that only townies post bad plans:



This is actually completely false. I actually remembered one certain someone posting a plan in LoTR, who was universally thought to be town for quite a while, until chaoser himself shot him.

This person was none other than my current partner. The FIRST plan that was posted in LoTR:

+ Show Spoiler [LoTRRadfieldPlan] +

blue= Chaoser misses the point for the third time in a row and once again twists prpl's words. In chaoser's own words, either a townie intentionally posts a bad plan to draw out mafia (and prpl calls out chaoser on this, since chaoser is mentioning a scenario that doesn't apply) or a townie posts a bad plan because he is bad at coming up with plans. There is nothing that just automatically makes townies worse at coming up with plans. The idea itself is stupid, and indeed you are committing self-deceit if you simply and almost automatically assume anyone who comes up with a bad plan is town.

prpl correctly and very effectively points out that mafia have a vested interest in appearing like they are contributing. Posting a plan is a great way to do this. Indeed, we need to look at classic behavioral tells that suggest that it is indeed a scum posting a bad plan and then trying to get away with it, and we later see that this is exactly the case with hyshes. As prpl stated, this was the one situation (scum trying to appear town) that chaoser very conveniently glossed over in his posts about who posts plans and why.

In looking to establish whether the plan poster is scum or not, we would need to look at the behavior after the post. Scum would want to feign contribution and then fly under the radar to remain unsuspecting. This is exactly what hyshes did. After the plan was posted, he really didn't do anything. Then, when it came to crunch time and it was apparent that he and chaoser would be a focus for the lynch, he started the bandwagon on prpl+forumite and promptly disappeared.

The next post of chaoser that tipped me off further was this:



This post suggested to me that chaoser didn't have a vested interest in reading the thread. He seemed to only be interested in who was suspicious of his team. Indeed, his first suspicions were of prpl, and it certainly seemed like it was in reaction to prpl pressuring chaoser on the plan/hyshes business.

For someone who kept getting outraged over people using "shitty logic," I found it extremely weird that chaoser wasn't reading the thread properly, so as to completely miss my vote on his team. How can a person who is concerned with proper logic employ said logic without a proper foundation of information that is gathered through actually reading the thread?



Once again missing the point. At this point, chaoser has done enough things that seem strange that I begin to think that he isn't just "missing" the point, he's doing it intentionally and he's twisting things as he finds them convenient.

I never equated his defense of himself to him panicking. I said it seemed like he was panicking because he completely missed my vote on him, instead very aggressively showing suspicions of anyone who suspected him (myself and prpl, really)

This post:



Is far more important now than it was at the time chaoser posted it.

At the time chaoser posted it, I expected to see more of hyshes in the thread. I expected to see him post some sort of analysis on team viking and for him to step up activity in the thread, with chaoser probably tuning his activity down.

Clearly that's not what we have seen; indeed, it has been the complete opposite. Hyshes has just completely disappeared, while chaoser has tripled his activity.

Rather strange for someone who is simply supposed to be in an advisory capacity.



This post was strange to me simply because chaoser was introducing reasons for prpl/Forumite being scum that weren't present in the actual vote that hyshes posted. He said earlier that hyshes was coming along with the reasoning for voting prpl/forumite. Hyshes posted the vote by simply quoting the three voteposts of prpl and Forumite, saying that they were scum because they were voting a lot (wtf?)

Again, for someone like chaoser who is so concerned with shitty logic, the logic couldn't get shittier. How does "voting a lot" make someone scum?

Finally, the hypocrisy of the red and bolded part is astonishing. Chaoser claimed that the actual, main reason for voting prpl/forumite was that they were exclusively going after lurker teams or "easy targets." In the same vein, chaoser's team was pursuing one of the easiest targets of all. This was only proved by how easily prpl and forumite got bandwagoned and lynched. Pretty much every vote for them was completely baseless and stupid.



This is the last post I'll mention for now, since I've covered everything else already in both my previous posts and this one.

In this post, chaoser says that, since it's so active, he "very much doubts" that mafia will be lurking.

This indirectly pushed suspicion off teams like team nipple, team SS, team Switzerland, and to some extent, team S&G, none of whom at the time had been very active at the time. We now know team Switzerland was town, and teams nipple, SS, and S&G have still not been very active.

Townies should not be excluding possibilities so easily. We cannot simply make ill-reasoned generalizations (again, chaoser, here's your own shitty logic) and ignore activity patterns that could net us scum. Indeed, this post seemed to come across with an agenda, since usually only scum will be interested in letting lurkers slide.

Conclusions

I might be heavily biased, and I accept that, but upon reevaluation I still think chaoser's team is the best lynch today. There is still the possibility that chaoser is town, and in that case it would obviously would be incredibly detrimental to waste more time arguing and potentially risk destroying the thread and letting mafia simply choose one of us to lynch. So, as I went back and reread again I became rather suspicious of both team nipple and team SS as well, and I think they would make good alternates. Nipple has literally done nothing while sandro has been rather difficult to read. Decon has not done much of anything either.

Sandro has said some things I agree with, but also some things I don't. This is rather weird, as I usually agree with almost everything sandro says (when he is town). He also seems to lack in activity. This isn't a huge tell, particularly as his activity was almost nonexistent in SMG, but it certainly is weird because he is definitely here; he has posted several times. I am in agreement with him, for example, that team nipple would make a good lynch today. I didn't really like his no-lynch plan yesterday, and I didn't like some of the other things he said yesterday, either.

In this situation we just need to obtain more information on these teams. I want everyone to post their opinions and their top two lynches for today. If we can agree on at least two choices then that would be some good progress for the day.

GM what are your thoughts?