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On November 02 2011 02:29 prplhz wrote:
so we hydra up and then we make a new user that we both will use for the duration of this game? preferably an unholy union of the nicks?
Nah, each player just posts using his normal account.
On November 02 2011 02:44 redFF wrote:
I just realised this could be great for a larger game with noob/experienced player to get a bunch of new people.
I had considered this, but the problem is that parsing info from two different people as one is too complicated for a newbie setup.
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/in
Unholy union of nicknames actually sounds hilarious
EDIT: I think a town CPR doc/scum roleblocker setup would be great
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I like what you've done with the Parity Cop Palmar. I think that fits TL better than a straight up sane cop.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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On November 02 2011 00:33 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 00:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Assuming all your set ups have an equal probability, this doesn't seem too balanced. Mafia most likely need a roleblocker, and while role check is decent for figuring out who the next hit will be on, it still doesn't negate public claims. For example, if I am a sane cop, I know there is a 66% chance I can claim and be jailed or protected the following cycle, and there is literally nothing the mafia can do to stop it. I think to remedy this the mafia rolecop should be a roleblocker. Problem solved :-P
Problem is that imbalances the settings with a single jailor/cop/doctor. A normal F11 set up would probably be better unless Palmar really wants something wacky going on.
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On November 02 2011 01:19 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 01:07 Palmar wrote:On November 02 2011 00:55 GMarshal wrote:On November 02 2011 00:46 Palmar wrote:On November 02 2011 00:39 GMarshal wrote:On November 02 2011 00:34 Palmar wrote:On November 02 2011 00:33 GMarshal wrote:On November 02 2011 00:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Assuming all your set ups have an equal probability, this doesn't seem too balanced. Mafia most likely need a roleblocker, and while role check is decent for figuring out who the next hit will be on, it still doesn't negate public claims. For example, if I am a sane cop, I know there is a 66% chance I can claim and be jailed or protected the following cycle, and there is literally nothing the mafia can do to stop it. I think to remedy this the mafia rolecop should be a roleblocker. Problem solved :-P This creates some weird shit with roleblocker vs roleblocker mechanics, read the mafiascum wiki article. I have, I don't see the issue they have with it though, scum roleblocker goes before jailor since the jailor is also a protection. Not really an issue, I mean I like the idea of a scum rolecop, but in a setup in which there is a potential for a medic/jailor or worse, both, the scumteam needs a way to suppress them. It also really gives an incentive to avoid claiming Anyway, I've read 2 of 4 games and they never seemed to run into *too* much trouble, although I feel like they are too blue heavy I'm sticking with the setup, but I love the discussion. F11 is another similar setup, now TL is definitely not Mafiascum, I think the level of town play here is slightly higher and we know each other very well. But on the other hand, I think TL plays really bad Scum. I have no idea why, since I myself am really bad at scum, but it just seems to me that the general way of playing scum on TL is to sit back and pray town fucks up. F11 had a win-rate of 40%-ish for town on mafiascum, so they went with 2of4 instead. I like the idea of the setup because it forces mafia to play a very analytical game (you can't just randomly roleblock until someone claims, you should be pro-active in looking for you target), and it might end up in mafia being forced to claim or counter-claim, which I find a fascinating area of the game we don't explore nearly often enough. In any case, would you take the gamble as a sane cop? Now if you did a good job and found mafia night 1, I'd consider taking the risk day 2. But what if mafia has enough balls to just shoot you? It's a huge can of wifom. What! You dare stick with a setup I don't entirely agree with! This means WAR! Seriously though 2 of 4 seems to work, although you need to consider that mafiascum has pretty bad towns, for example the mountanous setup, witch is 10 town 2 scum has a 30% town win rate. I think that with two blues the scumteam is going to be fighting an uphill battle, but I'm in favor of any setup that keeps active players alive. I still dislike cops, so I would love to throw in a miller instead of one of the VTs, simply to give scum a chance to squirm out of a check. Ether that or maybe consider making one of the scum a framer in setups that have DTs. Just random thoughts because I'm bored. Those were exactly my thoughts, I did wonder when I first read the setup "isn't that really good for town?". And yes, Mafiascum towns are pretty bad. (In fact, TL towns are the only towns I've every seen that are relatively good). And then there is the issue with those random-open setups, which is the difference in balance depending on mod-roll, F11 was even worse in that respect (VT game vs a cop/doc game are vastly different). We might have to add a miller to the TL version of 2of4. I also had a crazy idea of simply not telling the mafia who their teammate is and giving the goon a gun. If the goon dies, the role cop gets a gun. For some reason TL seems to do okay as 3rd party and not scum. But I feel it's too themed (and similar to sleeper cell, which I hope will be hosted again in the future). We also have the possibility of replacing the Cop out of the cop/doc combination with a parity cop, because really, a cop+jailkeeper is not OP, it's only cop+doc that breaks the game. with a parity cop it reduces their investigative power by at least one night. Only problem with this is that the parity cop immediately knows the setup. Or we could just replace all town cops in the 2of4 with parity cops. I dislike the idea of making the scumteam not know each other, too theme as you said, and it removes the communication/coordination advantage, which is what scumteams now days seem to be failing to exploit. I really like the idea of replacing the cops with parity cops, which weakens the cop somewhat, I also suggest you make him unable to check himself, just to make the role more interesting. I'd still like to see a framer or miller but that's a personal preference, parity cop would work nicely too, and I'm not sure if both parity cop and miller together make the cop too weak of a role.
I think a miller would be a good way to give more leeway to the mafia in regards to claiming, counter claiming, and defending in a set up that can be so luck dependent on how the draw comes. The problem I see with that is if you have a miller + cop scenario it can screw the town even more since the miller would be more helpful with evening out the more imba settings like cop/medic, but would screw with the weaker town set ups more so making it less balanced overall.
It's interesting though, I found F11 to be pretty good and I don't see 40vs60 as that bad of a discrepancy. But I am always up for discussion on how to improve a set up.
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On November 02 2011 06:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 01:19 GMarshal wrote:On November 02 2011 01:07 Palmar wrote:On November 02 2011 00:55 GMarshal wrote:On November 02 2011 00:46 Palmar wrote:On November 02 2011 00:39 GMarshal wrote:On November 02 2011 00:34 Palmar wrote:On November 02 2011 00:33 GMarshal wrote:On November 02 2011 00:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Assuming all your set ups have an equal probability, this doesn't seem too balanced. Mafia most likely need a roleblocker, and while role check is decent for figuring out who the next hit will be on, it still doesn't negate public claims. For example, if I am a sane cop, I know there is a 66% chance I can claim and be jailed or protected the following cycle, and there is literally nothing the mafia can do to stop it. I think to remedy this the mafia rolecop should be a roleblocker. Problem solved :-P This creates some weird shit with roleblocker vs roleblocker mechanics, read the mafiascum wiki article. I have, I don't see the issue they have with it though, scum roleblocker goes before jailor since the jailor is also a protection. Not really an issue, I mean I like the idea of a scum rolecop, but in a setup in which there is a potential for a medic/jailor or worse, both, the scumteam needs a way to suppress them. It also really gives an incentive to avoid claiming Anyway, I've read 2 of 4 games and they never seemed to run into *too* much trouble, although I feel like they are too blue heavy I'm sticking with the setup, but I love the discussion. F11 is another similar setup, now TL is definitely not Mafiascum, I think the level of town play here is slightly higher and we know each other very well. But on the other hand, I think TL plays really bad Scum. I have no idea why, since I myself am really bad at scum, but it just seems to me that the general way of playing scum on TL is to sit back and pray town fucks up. F11 had a win-rate of 40%-ish for town on mafiascum, so they went with 2of4 instead. I like the idea of the setup because it forces mafia to play a very analytical game (you can't just randomly roleblock until someone claims, you should be pro-active in looking for you target), and it might end up in mafia being forced to claim or counter-claim, which I find a fascinating area of the game we don't explore nearly often enough. In any case, would you take the gamble as a sane cop? Now if you did a good job and found mafia night 1, I'd consider taking the risk day 2. But what if mafia has enough balls to just shoot you? It's a huge can of wifom. What! You dare stick with a setup I don't entirely agree with! This means WAR! Seriously though 2 of 4 seems to work, although you need to consider that mafiascum has pretty bad towns, for example the mountanous setup, witch is 10 town 2 scum has a 30% town win rate. I think that with two blues the scumteam is going to be fighting an uphill battle, but I'm in favor of any setup that keeps active players alive. I still dislike cops, so I would love to throw in a miller instead of one of the VTs, simply to give scum a chance to squirm out of a check. Ether that or maybe consider making one of the scum a framer in setups that have DTs. Just random thoughts because I'm bored. Those were exactly my thoughts, I did wonder when I first read the setup "isn't that really good for town?". And yes, Mafiascum towns are pretty bad. (In fact, TL towns are the only towns I've every seen that are relatively good). And then there is the issue with those random-open setups, which is the difference in balance depending on mod-roll, F11 was even worse in that respect (VT game vs a cop/doc game are vastly different). We might have to add a miller to the TL version of 2of4. I also had a crazy idea of simply not telling the mafia who their teammate is and giving the goon a gun. If the goon dies, the role cop gets a gun. For some reason TL seems to do okay as 3rd party and not scum. But I feel it's too themed (and similar to sleeper cell, which I hope will be hosted again in the future). We also have the possibility of replacing the Cop out of the cop/doc combination with a parity cop, because really, a cop+jailkeeper is not OP, it's only cop+doc that breaks the game. with a parity cop it reduces their investigative power by at least one night. Only problem with this is that the parity cop immediately knows the setup. Or we could just replace all town cops in the 2of4 with parity cops. I dislike the idea of making the scumteam not know each other, too theme as you said, and it removes the communication/coordination advantage, which is what scumteams now days seem to be failing to exploit. I really like the idea of replacing the cops with parity cops, which weakens the cop somewhat, I also suggest you make him unable to check himself, just to make the role more interesting. I'd still like to see a framer or miller but that's a personal preference, parity cop would work nicely too, and I'm not sure if both parity cop and miller together make the cop too weak of a role. I think a miller would be a good way to give more leeway to the mafia in regards to claiming, counter claiming, and defending in a set up that can be so luck dependent on how the draw comes. The problem I see with that is if you have a miller + cop scenario it can screw the town even more since the miller would be more helpful with evening out the more imba settings like cop/medic, but would screw with the weaker town set ups more so making it less balanced overall. It's interesting though, I found F11 to be pretty good and I don't see 40vs60 as that bad of a discrepancy. But I am always up for discussion on how to improve a set up.
Now, again, this is based on newbie games from mafiascum, but if you roll vanilla game it's down to 32%, the best case is 45% (the cop/doc variant).
So yeah, maybe our relatively higher skill at town will make up for it. The problem with millers is that it's such a bastard role to the player playing it. I think it's too much of a benefit to mafia.
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I wish you could choose your partner  .
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Do we vote in this thread or another one?
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United States22154 Posts
On November 02 2011 07:33 Curu wrote:I wish you could choose your partner .
then the "good" players would be mobbed and all the players with less reputation would feel bad. This method is best.
Fun fact, my first mafia game was a team melee hosted by RoL I ended up partnered with theMango and rolling scum. We won day 3 against a claimed cop ^_^
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On November 02 2011 08:06 Forumite wrote:
Do we vote in this thread or another one?
For someone who gave me so much shit for being ambiguous about my caller-sign-up thread, you should appreciate that this is pretty clear in the OP 
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes here, and only vote here. Do not PM me your vote.
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On November 02 2011 08:08 GMarshal wrote:then the "good" players would be mobbed and all the players with less reputation would feel bad. This method is best. Fun fact, my first mafia game was a team melee hosted by RoL I ended up partnered with theMango and rolling scum. We won day 3 against a claimed cop ^_^
Not to mention, the "good" players would then get shot night 1, and if they don't, they get hanged for being alive.
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On November 02 2011 08:08 GMarshal wrote:then the "good" players would be mobbed and all the players with less reputation would feel bad. This method is best. Fun fact, my first mafia game was a team melee hosted by RoL I ended up partnered with theMango and rolling scum. We won day 3 against a claimed cop ^_^
well aren't youuuuuuuu so special
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 02 2011 08:08 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 08:06 Forumite wrote:
Do we vote in this thread or another one? For someone who gave me so much shit for being ambiguous about my caller-sign-up thread, you should appreciate that this is pretty clear in the OP Show nested quote +1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes here, and only vote here. Do not PM me your vote. Just checking, in my experience it´s Murphys Law in this kind of situation, if there is any possibility of confusion about a rule, then it WILL come up later on. That line looks like it was a link to another thread, just making sure it wasn´t.
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no probs
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On November 02 2011 08:08 GMarshal wrote:then the "good" players would be mobbed and all the players with less reputation would feel bad. This method is best. Fun fact, my first mafia game was a team melee hosted by RoL I ended up partnered with theMango and rolling scum. We won day 3 against a claimed cop ^_^
Dibs on Gmarshal then
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Since the players in a team doesn´t automatically agree, and it´s the LATEST vote, rather than the one both agree on that is used, I expect some intra-team disputes, marital if you would.
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On November 02 2011 08:28 Forumite wrote:
Since the players in a team doesn´t automatically agree, and it´s the LATEST vote, rather than the one both agree on that is used, I expect some intra-team disputes, marital if you would.
I expect people to be able to sort that out lol.
If not, well the game is called couples therapy...
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EPT
