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On November 10 2011 12:45 Ace wrote:In Sleeper Cell I had the Town under my thumb from Day 1. Did I really need to claim? We could have easily won anyway without my claim right? Thats what I'm telling you. As long as I know I have a high chance of winning that is the final truth. There is no complex scenario here. Your claim was icing on the cake but we could have won even with me getting lynched. You keep acting as if every Scum player has this irrational fear of doing things that might get them caught when that only applies to scrubs. GM could have done the same thing here as Scum. And this is what you guys don't seem to understand. As scum he could claim medic and EVEN IF HE GOT LYNCHED if he believes his team can win then that shits on any excuse any of you have. I've already outlined how a Scum GM can play it the same way and win the game. Read the post if you keep refusing to believe me. Show nested quote +
Scum GM fake claims medic. If the actual medic flips he has the already stated alibi to say that he was just doing it to WIFOM the Scum night kill. If no medic flips then he can just say he protected so and so on each night knowing no one can prove him wrong since he knows all the NKs, or most importantly claims to prot the PC every night.
Town GM shows up with a medic fake claim.
What is the difference here?
Answer this if you're so confident. What is the difference between Scum GM and Town GM here? Both of them lied about their claim and can't be verified. In what world does it make sense for the Town to even keep a player alive at LYLO that can't be verified but you've just seen the actual role flip.
The difference is that scum GM will for the great majority of time never make that claim in that spot. Ask him if you don't believe me. Knowing that makes me believe he is town in that spot the vast majority of the time. So lynching him is negative e.v.
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On November 10 2011 12:48 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:21 Ace wrote:
There is only one such thing as a bad claim for Scum: Will I get lynched or lose the game for my team?
If the answer is no, then it is a good claim. I've already explained this earlier in the thread. GM faked a roleclaim as Town and DID NOT GET LYNCHED. He could have done the same as Scum and hey guess what - CRED! Fuck it, it's LYLO - he doesn't even need major cred. He only needs to avoid being lynched. "Hai guys I know that dead medic over there contradicts my story but I have an excuse for why I lied even though it doesn't tell you guys jack shit about me being Town -lolz 4real believe me".
WBG even pointed out that there was nothing in the scenario regarding the check on him that tells you anything about GMs alignment. Literally you could have switched WBG and GM, lynched a Townie and then what? You're really going to make the same argument?
Laughable.
Seriously just ditch this forum and go play somewhere else. Pathetic level mafia games being played by the same pathetic players month after month and people are still falling for the same amateur level shit. Except that WBG was mafia and didn't make that claim. I wonder why? Also no one is saying that fake claim = town. You are saying that fake claim = lynch and that is PROVEN to not always be the correct play. Each and every piece of info this game provides you has to be analysed and considered, there isn't a flow chart of reactions proven to always work.
No shit you lynch the Fake Claim. Look let's keep it simple smart guy:
Who is more inclined to lie in a game of Mafia?
What happens more often? A Townie lying for the sake of the Town or Scum lying?
Thanks. This is why I'm better than all of you.
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On November 10 2011 12:54 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:48 sandroba wrote:On November 10 2011 12:21 Ace wrote:
There is only one such thing as a bad claim for Scum: Will I get lynched or lose the game for my team?
If the answer is no, then it is a good claim. I've already explained this earlier in the thread. GM faked a roleclaim as Town and DID NOT GET LYNCHED. He could have done the same as Scum and hey guess what - CRED! Fuck it, it's LYLO - he doesn't even need major cred. He only needs to avoid being lynched. "Hai guys I know that dead medic over there contradicts my story but I have an excuse for why I lied even though it doesn't tell you guys jack shit about me being Town -lolz 4real believe me".
WBG even pointed out that there was nothing in the scenario regarding the check on him that tells you anything about GMs alignment. Literally you could have switched WBG and GM, lynched a Townie and then what? You're really going to make the same argument?
Laughable.
Seriously just ditch this forum and go play somewhere else. Pathetic level mafia games being played by the same pathetic players month after month and people are still falling for the same amateur level shit. Except that WBG was mafia and didn't make that claim. I wonder why? Also no one is saying that fake claim = town. You are saying that fake claim = lynch and that is PROVEN to not always be the correct play. Each and every piece of info this game provides you has to be analysed and considered, there isn't a flow chart of reactions proven to always work. No shit you lynch the Fake Claim. Look let's keep it simple smart guy: Damnnnn son, he just called all of us out. If only there was some way for us to play a game together and then decide this issue once and for all. Damnnnnn. Who is more inclined to lie in a game of Mafia? What happens more often? A Townie lying for the sake of the Town or Scum lying? Thanks. This is why I'm better than all of you.
Damnnnnn son. He just called us all out. If only there was some way for all of us to play some sort of game together to sort this all out once and for all. Damnnnnn.
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Ace I'm calling you out on that. When was the last time you "outplayed" all the scrubs in this forum? I don't see you winning every game you sign up for =P
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Denmark8045 Posts
But this is a game of behavioral analysis and not a game of statistics or logic? Or lynching people just to teach them a lesson ...
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 10 2011 12:52 Ace wrote:
@kita: I've asked you twice already to SHOW ME SOMETHING in these 70 pages that helps the case of WBG having to be scum that allows you to ignore GM. You haven't done it. So if I'm being short sighted you aren't showing me anything to let me know you even understand the situation. Good bye.
Hmm? bugs alignment wasn't related to GM's alignment. There was a parity check between Radfield/Bugs and super/grey that returned different. That means there was a difference in parity between GM and Kurumi/RoL. From there, GM was the clearer town based on the first three days events.
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United States22154 Posts
Oh god, how did this go from a discussion about fakeclaiming being bad, to a discussion of how long Ace's epeen is?
To save us the agony of Ace listing all his manifold achievements, its pretty fucking long, we can now all move on and go play in Zona's steamship game.
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On November 10 2011 12:54 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:48 sandroba wrote:On November 10 2011 12:21 Ace wrote:
There is only one such thing as a bad claim for Scum: Will I get lynched or lose the game for my team?
If the answer is no, then it is a good claim. I've already explained this earlier in the thread. GM faked a roleclaim as Town and DID NOT GET LYNCHED. He could have done the same as Scum and hey guess what - CRED! Fuck it, it's LYLO - he doesn't even need major cred. He only needs to avoid being lynched. "Hai guys I know that dead medic over there contradicts my story but I have an excuse for why I lied even though it doesn't tell you guys jack shit about me being Town -lolz 4real believe me".
WBG even pointed out that there was nothing in the scenario regarding the check on him that tells you anything about GMs alignment. Literally you could have switched WBG and GM, lynched a Townie and then what? You're really going to make the same argument?
Laughable.
Seriously just ditch this forum and go play somewhere else. Pathetic level mafia games being played by the same pathetic players month after month and people are still falling for the same amateur level shit. Except that WBG was mafia and didn't make that claim. I wonder why? Also no one is saying that fake claim = town. You are saying that fake claim = lynch and that is PROVEN to not always be the correct play. Each and every piece of info this game provides you has to be analysed and considered, there isn't a flow chart of reactions proven to always work. No shit you lynch the Fake Claim. Look let's keep it simple smart guy: Who is more inclined to lie in a game of Mafia? What happens more often? A Townie lying for the sake of the Town or Scum lying? Thanks. This is why I'm better than all of you.
Depends on the situation. Certain situations make no sense for mafia to be lying for no gain. If you keep generalising everything you are going to lose a fair bit of games that you could have won had you analysed each scenario separately.
Clearly this is an issue of who is better than whom. Am I bothering you by being right when you are wrong?
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On November 10 2011 13:02 GMarshal wrote:
Oh god, how did this go from a discussion about fakeclaiming being bad, to a discussion of how long Ace's epeen is?
To save us the agony of Ace listing all his manifold achievements, its pretty fucking long, we can now all move on and go play in Zona's steamship game.
Stop trying to ruin my fun at trying to get more popcorn possible moments in this!
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There are only at best 8 or 9 people that have ever outplayed me or tricked me (extremely rare) in a game on this forum.
But me outplaying you won't mean I'll win. I've lost games that are out of my hands due to Mafia being game where other people on my Team have an effect on the game. In some cases it's subjective as to who is "better" at a game of Mafia but me compared to you guys isn't even fair. I'm not even sure you guys are better than me when I first started playing. Basic concepts seem to zing past your heads.
On November 10 2011 13:02 GMarshal wrote:
Oh god, how did this go from a discussion about fakeclaiming being bad, to a discussion of how long Ace's epeen is?
To save us the agony of Ace listing all his manifold achievements, its pretty fucking long, we can now all move on and go play in Zona's steamship game.
Zona asked me for advice on that game too. Guess you won't be playing in it after all lulz.
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United States22154 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:04 Ace wrote:There are only at best 8 or 9 people that have ever outplayed me or tricked me (extremely rare) in a game on this forum. But me outplaying you won't mean I'll win. I've lost games that are out of my hands due to Mafia being game where other people on my Team have an effect on the game. In some cases it's subjective as to who is "better" at a game of Mafia but me compared to you guys isn't even fair. I'm not even sure you guys are better than me when I first started playing. Basic concepts seem to zing past your heads. Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 13:02 GMarshal wrote:
Oh god, how did this go from a discussion about fakeclaiming being bad, to a discussion of how long Ace's epeen is?
To save us the agony of Ace listing all his manifold achievements, its pretty fucking long, we can now all move on and go play in Zona's steamship game. Zona asked me for advice on that game too. Guess you won't be playing in it after all lulz.
I had no intent of playing in Zona's game. I don't see how you advising would make me not play though ^_^
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yes he could've claimed medic. me and kita spent hours on irc talking about whether he was scum or not.
this was not luck or a bad decision. we spent hours deliberating before we made the call on who was scum.
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On November 10 2011 13:01 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:52 Ace wrote:
@kita: I've asked you twice already to SHOW ME SOMETHING in these 70 pages that helps the case of WBG having to be scum that allows you to ignore GM. You haven't done it. So if I'm being short sighted you aren't showing me anything to let me know you even understand the situation. Good bye. Hmm? bugs alignment wasn't related to GM's alignment. There was a parity check between Radfield/Bugs and super/grey that returned different. That means there was a difference in parity between GM and Kurumi/RoL. From there, GM was the clearer town based on the first three days events.
there is nothing that told you GM was clear town over Kurumi in that respect.
Even Qatol said that you would lynch the fake claimer because he's a confirmed liar. The inactive guy is 9 times out of 10 a bored townie.
This is precisely why we left sinani alive so long in PYP. He's fucking useless as town and it came down to a process of elimination where we had no choice but to kill him. Same thing here, except you had a choice and you just chose badly lol.
You chose correctly, just your method was dumb.
EDIT:
On November 10 2011 13:09 redFF wrote:
yes he could've claimed medic. me and kita spent hours on irc talking about whether he was scum or not.
this was not luck or a bad decision. we spent hours deliberating before we made the call on who was scum.
the simple fact that you spent hours on it shows more than anything else lol.
I knew something like this would happen. I PMed Ace about 5 minutes after day 3 started telling him to check the game out cause I thought the situation was interesting.
I wanted to see whether you guys would follow the logic train. It somehow derailed and crashed horribly.
Although, you won.
+ Show Spoiler +also I wanted to know what I should've done better so I didn't feel like it was impossible to win -_-
that literally was a concern for me though, at no point in the game did I think mafia had an advantage. It sucked.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:11 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 13:01 kitaman27 wrote:On November 10 2011 12:52 Ace wrote:
@kita: I've asked you twice already to SHOW ME SOMETHING in these 70 pages that helps the case of WBG having to be scum that allows you to ignore GM. You haven't done it. So if I'm being short sighted you aren't showing me anything to let me know you even understand the situation. Good bye. Hmm? bugs alignment wasn't related to GM's alignment. There was a parity check between Radfield/Bugs and super/grey that returned different. That means there was a difference in parity between GM and Kurumi/RoL. From there, GM was the clearer town based on the first three days events. there is nothing that told you GM was clear town over Kurumi in that respect.
Technically we never had to make the decision because you guys conceded 
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On November 10 2011 13:13 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 13:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 10 2011 13:01 kitaman27 wrote:On November 10 2011 12:52 Ace wrote:
@kita: I've asked you twice already to SHOW ME SOMETHING in these 70 pages that helps the case of WBG having to be scum that allows you to ignore GM. You haven't done it. So if I'm being short sighted you aren't showing me anything to let me know you even understand the situation. Good bye. Hmm? bugs alignment wasn't related to GM's alignment. There was a parity check between Radfield/Bugs and super/grey that returned different. That means there was a difference in parity between GM and Kurumi/RoL. From there, GM was the clearer town based on the first three days events. there is nothing that told you GM was clear town over Kurumi in that respect. Technically we never had to make the decision because you guys conceded
I didn't concede. Kurumi literally just gave up.
I PMed him after going wtf, why did you do that when kita expressed doubt in the thread.
Clearly, after 3 days of doing nothing, he had no future intent of doing anything.
I actually thought it was funny that I could use the line, "oh really plausible, I'm the lone scum with 3 afk buddies" and actually mean it lololol
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On November 10 2011 13:00 prplhz wrote:
But this is a game of behavioral analysis and not a game of statistics or logic? Or lynching people just to teach them a lesson ...
what the fuck ofc it's a game of logic
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On November 10 2011 13:04 Ace wrote:There are only at best 8 or 9 people that have ever outplayed me or tricked me (extremely rare) in a game on this forum. But me outplaying you won't mean I'll win. I've lost games that are out of my hands due to Mafia being game where other people on my Team have an effect on the game. In some cases it's subjective as to who is "better" at a game of Mafia but me compared to you guys isn't even fair. I'm not even sure you guys are better than me when I first started playing. Basic concepts seem to zing past your heads. Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 13:02 GMarshal wrote:
Oh god, how did this go from a discussion about fakeclaiming being bad, to a discussion of how long Ace's epeen is?
To save us the agony of Ace listing all his manifold achievements, its pretty fucking long, we can now all move on and go play in Zona's steamship game. Zona asked me for advice on that game too. Guess you won't be playing in it after all lulz.
When are we going to get a legit tier list Ace? It's always something lame like
God Tier: Ace
Shit Tier: Everyone else
I wanna know where I am damnit!
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Rather than being told about how bad we are, I would like to actually hear ways we can improve.
Feels like im playing DotA in here or something
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Denmark8045 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 13:00 prplhz wrote:
But this is a game of behavioral analysis and not a game of statistics or logic? Or lynching people just to teach them a lesson ... what the fuck ofc it's a game of logic
But it's that only when people behave logically? I mean sometimes stuff is logical, but then if like people count on me to act logically you'll be very disappointed and maybe you have to account for that or something? Like if I suck and then you're like "of course he's a genius like everybody else because why wouldn't everybody be a genius" and then I totally fooled you because I suck and stuff like that. Or what ... ?
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On November 10 2011 13:20 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 10 2011 13:00 prplhz wrote:
But this is a game of behavioral analysis and not a game of statistics or logic? Or lynching people just to teach them a lesson ... what the fuck ofc it's a game of logic But it's that only when people behave logically? I mean sometimes stuff is logical, but then if like people count on me to act logically you'll be very disappointed and maybe you have to account for that or something? Like if I suck and then you're like "of course he's a genius like everybody else because why wouldn't everybody be a genius" and then I totally fooled you because I suck and stuff like that. Or what ... ?
And thus WIFOM was born
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EPT
