|
On August 25 2011 08:42 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 08:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 24 2011 01:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
##Vote: Navillus On August 24 2011 01:52 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar
On August 24 2011 21:13 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: TheFerryman
On August 24 2011 21:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Tnkted
On August 25 2011 02:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote MrWiggles
Please tell me what your actual scum reads are, with reasons. Do you still think that all the people you voted for are scum, or do you believe some of them to be town now? Why? At the moment, my views hinge on two important people 1) If MrWiggles turns out not to be the eldritch, then I believe Ferryman to be the eldritch himself. On the off-chance Wiggles isn't the eldritch, then I believe Ferryman to be town, based off various arguments that Ferryman has made against wiggles. 2) If Tnkted is mafia, I believe Navillus to also be mafia because Tnkted chose to ignore what Navillus said at the start of day 1 about being a townie, before looking a few posts further and voting Palmar based off his joke, this would also make Palmar innocent in my eyes. Again, this is perfectly inversed.
Ok, several things are happening right now that need to stop.
1. Wifom. Go google 'wine in front of me' if you don't understand what this is. The post I just quoted was distilled seven times from fruit of the wifom bush, and if you were to drink it you'd get so drunk on overthought you'd end up throwing up all over qatol and get yourself banned.
2. Talk about 'taking responsibility for the lynch'. No, that's stupid, thats not how days generally work. Whoever gets lynched d1 gets lynched because the best case was made against them. The people who pushed that lynch the hardest aren't 'responsible' anymore than the people that they convinced. The arguement was just convincing. That's it.
If we lynch cyber_cheese, tomorrow I might be the one that's most to blame, but I'm no more responsible and it doesn't make me any scummier if he does flip green. There are thousands of townies that have pushed a wrong read and got somebody innocent lynched; the fact that they were SURE that their target is town doesn't make them scum, it just makes them wrong. That shit happens in mafia.
3. The same principle applies for things like 'x defended y and y flipped mafia so x must also be mafia'. This is erronious thinking; there's nothing stopping mafia from defending certain townies to gain town cred. Mafia doesn't care who gets lynched as long as its not one of them, and often times mafia will try to bus their own teammates to get town cred. Town credit is more important to mafia than almost anything else, because it's a coin that can be spent at lylo for a free win.
|
also please stop this tldr shit . it bothers lazy people like me . if you do that at least use colors and pictures to keep me interested k?
|
Lol this is a game based on analysis bro, if you don't like reading stuff like this maybe mafia isn't the game for you?
|
Ok, because I'm on the verge of being lynched I took an objective look over my posts, and realised something. The people least afraid of looking like scum are town, and in most games they don't even realise they are doing it. I've done the not caring a little bit too much apparently.
I would promote discussion on chaos and eiii before putting the nail in my coffin.
|
On August 25 2011 09:52 Erandorr wrote:
also please stop this tldr shit . it bothers lazy people like me . if you do that at least use colors and pictures to keep me interested k?
Really?
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B9DKXRnL-iE/TRx9ykjZJxI/AAAAAAAAAPE/pANLBQDiOz8/s1600/get_out.jpg)
|
##Extension, I want more time on this
|
On August 25 2011 10:22 Navillus wrote:
##Extension, I want more time on this
There were some changes, I don´t think extension is something we can vote to get, instead the day is extended by 24 hours if we don´t have a majority vote, which is currently at 7 votes on the same person at the deadline.
|
On August 25 2011 10:22 Navillus wrote:
##Extension, I want more time on this
we only get two extensions so i would much rather wait till we need more discussion later in the game for an extension.
@jackal
Did you read that we get an extra day if we lynch the EH?
I think we should focus on lynching scum when we have a good candidate like Cheese today and if we don't I think the case on wiggles is quite strong.
|
On August 25 2011 02:08 Sevryn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 01:40 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I believe it's in towns best interests to randomly lynch from the get-go, as I've stated a few times in now, so I've been following bandwagons to try and put a lynch through
If I happen to be lynched because of it, so be it, at least towns not wasting a chance to lynch its in scums best interest for town to randomly lynch and ignore scum slips while i was reading the thread i was going to do a write up on CyberCheese however tnkted beat me to it this guy self admitted to jumping on bandwagons. he plays the IDC if i get lynched card this guy is scum. ##vote Cyber_Cheese
Sorry I didn't put ##unvote in this post
##unvote
##vote Cyber_Cheese
|
On August 25 2011 10:33 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 10:22 Navillus wrote:
##Extension, I want more time on this There were some changes, I don´t think extension is something we can vote to get, instead the day is extended by 24 hours if we don´t have a majority vote, which is currently at 7 votes on the same person at the deadline.
Oh thought he did that and left the vote, in that case-
##Unvote
Actually I was going to do that anyway because I do not believe that Cyber_Cheese is scum, just really bad town. First off as he pointed out he has been extremely active and in the spotlight, now I attacked this in a post and it's WIFOM if we go back and forth saying "town stays active b/c they're confident" "scum tries harder to appear town" so I want to say both possibilities are left open but in general I believe it is much more of a townie thing to stay really active, and I think if he's as noobish as he seems, which I believe he is, then he would have stayed much quieter as mafia. Now the obvious question is why then did I attack him and vote for him? I did so to try to gauge reactions, I actually thought there was more time left to do so but there isn't so I'm pulling it back early. But I wanted to give people the chance to defend him and no one did, this is what makes me not want to lynch him. There are only 3 scum this game, and while their KP is not dependent on any of them surviving it still would be terrible for the scum if they lost 1/3 of their team day1. So the facts that this bandwagon formed extremely easily and no one has stepped up to defend Cyber_Cheese (the one possible exception was Ferryman trying to hold me responsible for any lynch on Cyber, but their later conversation convinced me they're not scumbuddies) make me think he's town enough that we should at least take an extension rather than lynch him right now.
|
On August 25 2011 09:52 Erandorr wrote:
also please stop this tldr shit . it bothers lazy people like me . if you do that at least use colors and pictures to keep me interested k?
Sure thing do you want me to read you a bedtime story or do you just wanna do the picture book before you go beddy bye
|
Personally, cybercheese comes across as a very inexperienced and new player. He's trying to be active, and it seems like he's trying to contribute. However, people think he's scummy because of the things he's trying to push. To me, though, he seems to just be pushing things that are bad for town, because he truly believes that they are good. I don't think that a scum team would actually let one of their members post in such an obviously anti-town way (unless I was the leader :p), to the point where he's going to get lynched on day 1. As well, why have a completely new player push anti-town ideas? I get that it might be that he isn't the greatest loss to their team if he's lynched, but it also seems like he would have the lowest chance from his scum team to actually accomplish his objectives and convince people, meaning that there isn't much use in letting him post it in the first place. All in all, he looks scummy, but I think this is because he's new, more than because he's actually scum.
I'm not going to vote for him now, but if it comes down to it, I'll vote him before I go to bed, to help make sure a lynch happens, and because of the fact that even though he doesn't seem to be scum to me currently, there's still a better chance of him being scum than myself, when I know my own alignment.
So, I'd like people to discuss Eiii. What are your thoughts on this player? Do you think he's scummy? Do you think it's worth lynching a lurker day 1 to dissuade against it in further days, when there are no other means, such as vig shots? Will you help me vote for him?
Right now, a lot of the discussion seems to be about myself or Cybercheese, and this is letting a lot of people lurk by with little to no posts of substance.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 25 2011 08:42 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Ok, Ferryman, what do you think of Eiii? Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 07:23 Eiii wrote:...and right away wiggles and palmar make themselves the topics of the day. On August 24 2011 01:12 Palmar wrote:
Right.
This is not what happened. My win condition is to eliminate all threats to town. I did not slip, you're trying to manufacture evidence out of something that doesn't exist. My joke can't even be shrugged off as bad town play because nothing exists in it that would indicate I'm not town. This post sets off a lot of alarm bells for me. So many that I'm just gonna go ahead and ##vote PalmarWiggle's plan is awful and super-pro EA, yeah, but the more interesting part of his posts to me is how much he's pushing that everyone should breadcrumb. This is my third try on typing up something about breadcrumbs, and I'm not at all sure what to think about them anymore. They can be really useful in piecing everything together lategame, yeah, but I'm really worried about how they can be used to manipulate town. Breadcrumbing pro-town stuff all game long and then revealing it all when it's LYLO or something is a really good plan for smart scum. So our only option would be to look back at people's crumbs after they die, which again leaves town open to manipulation if scum can make some really good connections that aren't there. So basically, the only way we should trust any sort of breadcrumbing scheme if if the person who made the crumbs claims them and then flips town. And, if that's the case... why do we even need breadcrumbs? I understand that, especially in a game like this where the blues' actions are so critical, it's really appealing to try to set up a system where everyone can deduce what happened, but looking at the setup, I don't think it's a good idea in this game. alright I hope that made sense. One more thing: What happens if an insane doctor visits EA? Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 08:08 Eiii wrote:On August 24 2011 07:35 Palmar wrote:
Care to explain what alarms it sets off? You seem to be perfectly fine with throwing down a vote based on nothing but "setting off alarms". You made a post containing something that could be taken as scummy, tnk pointed it out, you go 'derp' and tell him to stop looking for things that aren't there. So far so good. Then, once tnk pushes you a bit, you get really defensive. That post I quoted just doesn't feel like a post that a comfortable player makes. He has a grand total of two posts this game. In the first one, he doesn't do a good job explaining why he thinks Palmar is scummy, and then votes for him. He then spends a great deal of time talking about breadcrumbs. However, the way he goes about it, lets him say almost nothing in a large amount of text. Basically, he goes "This is good sometimes, but other times it isn't", before coming to the conclusion he doesn't think it's a great idea, which doesn't really follow from what he was saying, and is based on "looking at the set-up", which he doesn't bother to explain. So, he has a nice wall of text, that essentially says nothing, before he comes to a conclusion based on premises not even mentioned in his post. His second post, he just says "You reacted weird", but he never goes further than that, or tries to add more pressure to Palmar. As well, he spends no time trying to convince others that Palmar is scummy, and completely leaves the thread. This is also disconcerting, because he had time to post on TL today, but has not chimed in on any of the discussion that has been happening in the last 24 hours. I think he's a good candidate for a scummy lurker, and would like to see what he's thinking right now. Also, besides me, who do you believe to be scummy, Ferryman?
|
Mr. Wiggles you know it goes to an extension not a no-lynch right?
|
Okay there's no way that everyone is lurking right before the lynch, seriously someone who is town, read my post and think about it Cyber had no one defending him and got bandwagoned in 2 seconds flat, it's very unlikely that he's scum and there are definitely better candidates
|
Oh dammit the lynch is 12 hours from now, I forgot that the clock above the reply box is KST military time it will say 23:45 when it is, not 11:45 derp
|
On August 25 2011 08:48 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
While your looking into people that havn't said much:
Is it just me, or does Chaos keep talking about going into more detail while never actually doing so?
Yeah I know, this week is really busy. I'm hoping I have a little more time at home next week.
I'll have a proper full-length analysis on tnkted up in an hour or less.
|
tnkted
On August 24 2011 00:57 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 00:55 Palmar wrote:On August 24 2011 00:46 tnkted wrote:On August 24 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:
I have discarded my win condition, my sole object this game will be to convince Jackal I'm town, seeing as it's a feat I've never achieved. Oh!? You have a win condition other than winning with town? derp. lololo #vote palmar
To begin with, we have him attacking an apparent scum slip by Palmar. Anyone with eyes can see that his slip was intended as a joke post, but apparently that's worth a vote.
On August 24 2011 01:25 tnkted wrote:
...... okay. Nice crumb.
##unvote
...and a crumb is worth an unvote.
On August 24 2011 01:25 tnkted wrote:
Oh wait, the PMs are posted in the OP.
NEVERMIND
##vote palmar
And then a realization that it could have been a faked crumb is worth voting again.
On August 24 2011 09:45 tnkted wrote:
Ferryman, if you are new, then welcome to mafia! You have a bright future here, and if you're town mafia will probably want to hit you n1.
In this case though, I think you might be right but lynching palmar is a better move here. Sir Jesse Wiggles ESQ (duke of yorkshire) is a notoriously difficult person to read at the best of times because he plays so close to the chest, and I've written my share of analysis on him and been wrong every time.
That being said, your evidence makes a lot of sense, and if we don't have any other leads tomorrow I'd be totally happy gettin' wiggy wit' it. But right now, palmar is a better lynch because
A) His response to the FOS has been very scummy
B) The slip thing I mentioned earlier
C) It's day 1 so if I'm wrong, it's not THAT big of a deal.
Keep your eye on Wiggles and if you find anything else we'll act on it. For now though, Palmar is scummier than wiggles and I'd rather lynch him,
Just some advice: the first post you posted felt to me like more of a pressure post (ie it wasn't very convincing) but the second one (the meta one) was much more convincing (wiggles rather comprehensive response notwithstanding).
Here is where tnkted really begins to show his scumminess. The first paragraph can be ignored. Paragraph #2 contains a multitude of mafia traits. To begin with, he agrees with Ferryman's position, but still feels that Palmar is a better lynch. Why? Because Wiggles is tough to get a read on. This is a cautious wishy-washy stance. He allows an excuse for being wrong, and is stuck on tunnel-mode on Palmar, because that is a perfect cover for mafia to hide under.
Paragraph 3\ABC
Par. 3 supports the wishy-washy scum stance seen earlier. The ABC's display a terribly weak case against Palmar. He states that Palmar's response to being accused was very scummy, but fails to explain how. Even a general statement of how it was scummy would be better, but there is absolutely nothing here. Then back to the "slip", and finally closing with a careless attitude towards lynching town. We should never want to lynch town. Day 1 is just as or more important than any other day, because if we can lessen their numbers now, they have fewer kills on N1 and beyond.
On August 24 2011 23:28 tnkted wrote:Okay, lets talk about Navillus and Palmar. This is the reason why some people were suspecting Narvillus: Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 00:20 Navillus wrote:
Dammit I need to role something more interesting than townie one of these days... anyway, I've never played a mini before so I'm very open to any mini-specific advice anyone has. versus this: Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:
I have discarded my win condition, my sole object this game will be to convince Jackal I'm town, seeing as it's a feat I've never achieved. Which one of those seems scummier to you? To me, the second comment seems scummier by far. Now, I'd be willing to believe that it was a joke if it wasn't for Palmar's response: Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 01:12 Palmar wrote:
Right.
This is not what happened. My win condition is to eliminate all threats to town. I did not slip, you're trying to manufacture evidence out of something that doesn't exist. My joke can't even be shrugged off as bad town play because nothing exists in it that would indicate I'm not town. This is a very sullen, angry response. Rather than joke around with my pressure and OMGUS, like Narvillus's did: Narvillus wasn't worried about the pressure because he was having fun and joking around; he knew he was innocent and he knew that jackal thought he was innocent. Meanwhile, Palmar's FIRST INSTINCT upon being accused was to lash out. his FIRST INSTINCT is to accuse me of manufacturing evidence. Is that a reasonable response? I sure don't think it is. So that's my case for accusing palmar. You can find it convincing, or you can find it unconvincing, I'm not really concerned about it. Much of what I just outlined happened in my head unconciously and I'm sort of explaining my scumdar pings after the fact, if that makes any sense.
So according to tnkted his vote on Palmar was a joke, and he didn't think it was actually a slip. He states that Palmar actually defending himself was scummy because a player like Navillus was relaxed and joked around, because the vote on him wasn't serious. Comparing these two gives a solid impression that tnkted's vote on Palmar was not intended to be serious, which means that only Palmar's reaction to it should have been used as evidence. As can be seen by the previous post I quoted, however, tnkted is still using it as proof that Palmar is mafia, still considering it a scum slip. That's a rather large hole in his argument I'd say.
On August 25 2011 09:51 tnkted wrote:
Ok, several things are happening right now that need to stop.
1. Wifom. Go google 'wine in front of me' if you don't understand what this is. The post I just quoted was distilled seven times from fruit of the wifom bush, and if you were to drink it you'd get so drunk on overthought you'd end up throwing up all over qatol and get yourself banned.
2. Talk about 'taking responsibility for the lynch'. No, that's stupid, thats not how days generally work. Whoever gets lynched d1 gets lynched because the best case was made against them. The people who pushed that lynch the hardest aren't 'responsible' anymore than the people that they convinced. The arguement was just convincing. That's it.
If we lynch cyber_cheese, tomorrow I might be the one that's most to blame, but I'm no more responsible and it doesn't make me any scummier if he does flip green. There are thousands of townies that have pushed a wrong read and got somebody innocent lynched; the fact that they were SURE that their target is town doesn't make them scum, it just makes them wrong. That shit happens in mafia.
3. The same principle applies for things like 'x defended y and y flipped mafia so x must also be mafia'. This is erronious thinking; there's nothing stopping mafia from defending certain townies to gain town cred. Mafia doesn't care who gets lynched as long as its not one of them, and often times mafia will try to bus their own teammates to get town cred. Town credit is more important to mafia than almost anything else, because it's a coin that can be spent at lylo for a free win.
1. Nothing scummy about this content. Nothing town either.
2. In this section of his post, tnkted wants to remove responsibility from players for mislynches. That is a ridiculously scummy attitude. The people who pushed the lynch DO have to be responsible for it, otherwise mafia can get away with coming up with a case on a slightly scummy townie and get a mislynch every day, and according to you get away with it scot-free. If you're pushing for someone's lynch and they flip green, then you do get a bit scummier for it. If it happens consistently we really need to take a look at you and sort things out.
3. Wrong again. You want to take away the only tool we have for linking mafia to each other. When somebody flips red, or green for that matter, we look back at who they interacted with and how they interacted with them. You're pushing a seriously mafia agenda here. Responsibility is key in this game, because mafia without responsibility don't have to worry about anything.
tnkted is mafia.
|
I also think Cyber is more likely town than mafia. He's far too free with his opinions and and open with his posting. New mafia have a far guiltier mindset and are likely to lurk rather than post as actively as he has so far. I just don't like the wagon on him at all right now.
|
cyber is town, kill wiggles.
|
Just throwing it out there, I don´t want us to waste an Extension on Day 1. With only two of them, I feel they are better used on Day 2 and Day 3, when we will need the extra time more, and when we have more to discuss. I´m not saying Day 1 is a wasted effort, there have been extensive analysis and among the 5 top suspects, there is probably one or two anti-town, but we are still just fumbling in the dark. It´s too easy to sit in your own bubble and do WIFOM, without any real evidence to base it on. 24 hours more might give us a better chance to find Scum, but they are better used later on, when there is more concrete evidence to look at.
If at all possible, I want us to agree on a lynch within the next 7 hours.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QRGjH.png)
