On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote: Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first.
Why? What goal is this list trying to achieve? What use do you intend to put it to?
I mean if you give me a good justification I don't mind doing it, but it needs to have a purpose that helps the town, rather than cluttering space ^_^
If 5/7 of the experienced veteran players are dead by day 3/4 and the new or intermediate players are starting to die instead, it's a good indication you've got mafia and should really start examining those player's posts. It's a tool I use in every game that is generally quite effective. Normally I would just make one and keep it to myself, but I don't know a lot of the names here or the meta that goes along with me, so I would appreciate some input from someone who does
On June 28 2011 12:43 LSB wrote: Can I make a plan that has people strategically placing themselves of the lurker list?
I considered that as well LSB, I couldn't come up with a way to do it without the DTs claiming and being RBed though. What are your thoughts on how you would approach abusing the lurker list?
There's no reason to be discussing this. There is no chance that RoL will allow it. It's like cheating rule #7:
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
Discussing this will spam up the thread.
Strategic modkilling is a whole different thing. Consider this uh, maximizing the effectiveness of roles! Like pairing Medivacs with Marines! Or Lurkers and Defilers!
lol'd...i thought we were supposed to keep SC2 out of this? :p
GMarshal youngminii Jackal58 ~OpZ~ Mr. Wiggles Kenpachi
these are the most skilled/vets players in this game. Fun fact: GMarshal has never been lynched as town. Another fun fact: Mr. Wiggles has been mafia the last 2 games I played with him.
The following players I would describe as skilled, or at least very active when playing town:
Kill them. When that list comes up day 2, give the lurkers 24 hours. If you don't see good activity, shoot on sight. It's a free bullet, use it. Hatters place your bombs immediately, they won't go off until you die anyways, so you can always change your mind later on. Frankly, I don't expect there to be any lurkers left by day 4 (day 3 if we're lucky)so dts shouldn't bother with lurkers. I'll be willing to discuss it more when the list comes on day 2.
Until then, we should stop discussing it. It's not helping scumhunting, and it's spamming the thread with people saying "yes" and "no" and making shit up
I'd like to start by laying down some groundrules.
If you would be so kind, read the first day of TL mafia XXXIX or PTP mafia. In both games, day one was a clusterfuck that led to town deaths and created a poor environment for analysis and general sanity.
I would like to avoid that, primarily by making some rules.
don't post if you've got nothing new to say. If you were going to post something like:
don't. It just spams up the thread and make things harder to follow.
Value quality over quantity. The player with five great posts is more valuable than the player with 20 terrible ones. Posting a lot but not contributing is spamming, and that's actively helping the mafia. don't do it.
To expand upon that: if you are asked a question, either answer it or refuse to answer it, don't ignore it. If somebody accuses you, with reasons, refute them, and work towards not doing what you're being called scum for (lurking, spamming, false contributions, posting fluff, whatever)
I'm not going to tolerate spamming. Anybody posting poorly will be thus informed, and if no improvement is made, I will ensure that you get lynched. Questions?
On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote: Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first.
Odd post. How does this help us who are new to TL anyway? Roles are all randomised. So given that there are some players with better analytical skills than others, we can expect to have some in town and some in mafia, obviously.
Like someone else said, it's just painting targets though. Plus, with the Lurker List (this is new to me btw), everyone should be actively involved anyway with the way they see the game devloping.
On June 28 2011 13:34 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, chaos, he is a list:
GMarshal youngminii Jackal58 ~OpZ~ Mr. Wiggles Kenpachi
these are the most skilled/vets players in this game. Fun fact: GMarshal has never been lynched as town. Another fun fact: Mr. Wiggles has been mafia the last 2 games I played with him.
Why the fuck do you have Kenpachi on the "skilled vets" list? He doesn't do shit all game, so mafia never bothers to kill him until they've already killed everybody useful. This is a fact. Put him on the intermediate list, if anywhere.
If the lurker list mechanic is targeting one specific person, it's Kenpachi.
On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote: Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first.
Odd post. How does this help us who are new to TL anyway? Roles are all randomised. So given that there are some players with better analytical skills than others, we can expect to have some in town and some in mafia, obviously.
Like someone else said, it's just painting targets though. Plus, with the Lurker List (this is new to me btw), everyone should be actively involved anyway with the way they see the game devloping.
This is exactly what makes it effective. Because, if the veteran/experienced players are town, they are likely to be shot early on by mafia. The mafia players will still be alive, however, (provided they haven't been lynched/vigi shot, and depending on their skill level they will probably be easily able to avoid this) and therefore when you have one or two skilled players who have not been killed early on, you need to start looking really closely at their posts because it is that much more likely (based on simple probability) that they are mafia. From that point, you can make a reasonable guess as to their alignment based on analysis.
On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote: Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first.
Odd post. How does this help us who are new to TL anyway? Roles are all randomised. So given that there are some players with better analytical skills than others, we can expect to have some in town and some in mafia, obviously.
Like someone else said, it's just painting targets though. Plus, with the Lurker List (this is new to me btw), everyone should be actively involved anyway with the way they see the game devloping.
The concept here is that if the mafia have killed off the townies on the skilled veteran list and are now killing moderately skilled and semi-experienced players, the remainder of the skilled veterans are likely mafia.
Unfortunately, now that he's announced it in the thread, it's all WifoM. This is like a zodiac list, but without the good parts. Find mafia through analysis, not coincidence.
Can you all seriously cut it out with those lists? BC's the one that used it in TL Mafia XLII and guess what, he was scum. They don't help town AT ALL and it just makes town talk about the most useless shit.
Good one hiro,
Varpulis, you're a GMarshal clone, your post is exactly like his opening post. I imagine there will be an epic power struggle between you two for the role of town leader, then once the game is over the winner of said power struggle will flip red. Go at it!
On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote: Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first.
Odd post. How does this help us who are new to TL anyway? Roles are all randomised. So given that there are some players with better analytical skills than others, we can expect to have some in town and some in mafia, obviously.
Like someone else said, it's just painting targets though. Plus, with the Lurker List (this is new to me btw), everyone should be actively involved anyway with the way they see the game devloping.
The concept here is that if the mafia have killed off the townies on the skilled veteran list and are now killing moderately skilled and semi-experienced players, the remainder of the skilled veterans are likely mafia.
Unfortunately, now that he's announced it in the thread, it's all WifoM. This is like a zodiac list, but without the good parts. Find mafia through analysis, not coincidence.
I'd add LSB to any list as well, I might be wrong, but he seems like one of the better players here, and one I'm more familiar with (compared to ~OpZ~ and YM).
Also, I don't think it helps mafia very much, as they are likely to have at least one "veteran" player on their team already, and thus should know most of the other vets already. Even then, it's not hard to search someone's name and see how many games they've played.
On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote: Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first.
Why? What goal is this list trying to achieve? What use do you intend to put it to?
I mean if you give me a good justification I don't mind doing it, but it needs to have a purpose that helps the town, rather than cluttering space ^_^
If 5/7 of the experienced veteran players are dead by day 3/4 and the new or intermediate players are starting to die instead, it's a good indication you've got mafia and should really start examining those player's posts. It's a tool I use in every game that is generally quite effective. Normally I would just make one and keep it to myself, but I don't know a lot of the names here or the meta that goes along with me, so I would appreciate some input from someone who does
A list for you then. Its split into three levels. People I know to be experienced or good, people who are not quite vets, but have played before and know what they are doing and people who are new/have few games that showcase good play.
Vets 3. GMarshal (Hi!) 10. youngminii (long time player, usually very aggressive) 15. Jackal58 (endgame player, you are familiar with him, for those not familiar with him, in my experience he is not the best day1-2 player, but really excels when we hit day 5-6) 19. sandroba (read Sleeper Cell if you need a good reason why he is on here) 23. Palmar (In particular his scum play in SNMMII) 25. ~OpZ~ (oldtimer as well, I'm not aware of what his last notable game, because it predates me. I also lack meta on him) 26. LSB (A decent player, as town or scum he comes up with decent plans and tries to lead the town. Prone to powerplays as scum) 27. Mr. Wiggles (another excellent player, he makes very compelling organized posts, but often comes off as scummy even when town since he tends to rehash a lot of what people have said. He plays a better than average game as scum, see his win with Kavdragon in Insane Mafia 2)
Mid-tier players 1. DropBear - played some really solid games and is a strong player overall. He has no showings of singlehandedly dominating however, he may be misplaced here and be a candidate for Vet status. 2. sinani206 - played a couple games, not awful, but lacking a solid game to make a judgment of off 5. Cthsazsa - active contributing newbie, a little too trusting and willing to take people at their word. Much potential, interested to see where he goes. (Oh and I keep accidentally thinking he is a girl. Sorry -__-) 7. Kenpachi - likes to lurk, is good with a gun, but I have yet to see him play a game where he takes a solid leadership position 8. Lanaia - only seen her play in Insane Mafia 2 where she had a decent showing. Caught on to Kav's BS when the rest of the town missed it. She is really experienced on IRC mafia. 12. hiro protagonist - played a couple of games, did decently, I lack meta on him, as I don't think I've been in a game with him before. 13. Mig -same deal as hiro, no meta from me, played a few games. 14. Rean - Played more than hiro and mig, has a tendency to lurk (if PTP is a basis to judge on). Makes good calls in confusing situations 17. chaos13 - played a bunch here and away from here, but I lack meta on him 18. Eiii - experienced player who both lacks self confidence and has a tendency to lurk hardcore. 22. VisceraEyes -as hiro. Played a few games, nothing spectacular IIRC 24. Vain - as VE. 30. Varpulis - had a couple solid games, nothing massive, but solid. Hates lurkers, so a man after my own heart
Again, my limited meta knowledge on these players and relative rankings. Please no one take offense as these are IMO.
This is where we finish discussing vet lists. The won't give anymore useful information and will allow others to fake contribute with useless lists. I posted this by request and it should NOT be considered a contribution, as scum can do this as easily as town.Again, no more vet lists
I see both sides of making lists. The discussion it generates is a definite plus for town, if it's focused the right way. YM, you referenced the Zodiac List from XLII...what you didn't take into account was that after he posted the Zodiac List, BC didn't guide the discussion after it...making it bad for town. He used the fact that no one uses the list properly to his advantage. Had he been town, he likely would have guided discussion properly, and it likely would have been more of a help for town.
There are a lot of likelies in that statement, and I'm well aware of it, tyvm. That's just my opinion.
Conversely, when abused, the Zodiac Lists DO tend to clutter up the thread.
On June 28 2011 13:46 youngminii wrote: Can you all seriously cut it out with those lists? BC's the one that used it in TL Mafia XLII and guess what, he was scum. They don't help town AT ALL and it just makes town talk about the most useless shit.
Good one hiro,
Varpulis, you're a GMarshal clone, your post is exactly like his opening post. I imagine there will be an epic power struggle between you two for the role of town leader, then once the game is over the winner of said power struggle will flip red. Go at it!
I consider it a challenge. The prize is disappointing though. Trying to ensure good posting makes me the godfather, eh?
Hopefully it all ends well, and the town thrives under the iron fist thoughtful guidance of the victor.
I'm going to bed. Tons of people haven't posted yet, and need to do so. If anybody tries to spam while i'm sleeping, please vig them. Emulating Bill Murray is not pro-town play. Anybody who does it is helping the mafia. Who helps the mafia? Scum. Fire away.
On June 28 2011 13:46 youngminii wrote: Varpulis, you're a GMarshal clone, your post is exactly like his opening post.
Which is pretty ironic if you put it that way.
Anyway, I find myself really not understanding these early days. A few players like to make big posts about how town should play, what down should watch out for, pro-town environment etc but they pretty much all say the same thing. They all seem to have more purpose than content-- that is, they're supposed to establish the posters as big names for people to pay attention to or follow throughout the game. And to be honest, the showiness puts me off a bit. If you're just going to say what everyone's heard before, why do it so loudly?
I promised myself I'd post my thoughts more, so there they are :B
Lists are whatever, they just let blues who don't know what's going on fall into the hands of a) mafia or b) some nice green dude.
Why is it that this post STRONGLY reminds me of this? Your campaign speech as a mafioso in XXXVIII, just like your first ingame post for this game, was prepared for right after the start of the day. You made a HUGE deal about lurkers last time and your posting in this game has diverted town directly into a lurker discussion straight away. I am keeping my eye on you Mr! 2.
On June 28 2011 12:15 sinani206 wrote: Blues should play however and whenever they want. I shouldn't even have to mention that the townie is the most important role in the game. Analysis wins games, not blues. Let's get some pressure going.
I'm pretty annoying, so I'm going to pressure ##Vote: Sinani201 into being active because I know how much time he spends sitting at his computer and I don't want him to die from lurker KP his first game.
If someone dies from lurker KP, do they get banlisted?
You're already voting for me?
First off, I am not Sinani201. I'm Nisani201.
Second of all, if you want me to make a post, you could have asked nicely.
I don't have anything to contribute yet. I'm reading every single post, and when I feel like I have enough information, I will contribute.
This little exchange confuses me. Why was it necessary to do this? Scumbuddies I wonder, trying to keep each other from being lurker targets? This early matey stuff reminds me of Irish_Punk13 in XXXIX. We all know what alignment he ended up flipping. Voting Edward the 1st. 3. Chaos13 brings up the point of a pro-town atmosphere. What does this actually mean? Not spamming? This term has been used a fair bit already with noone really explaining how we are supposed to go about doing it.
I enjoy how GMarshal included Palmar on the Vet list, yet his first game was my first game as well. Yes, he had a strong showing for Mafia that game...but in all honesty, scum won from an inactive town. I wonder what motivation GMarshal has putting a new player like Palmar (if you'd like to see an example of his 'stellar town play', may I direct you to PTP?) in the 'Vet' side of that list. He's certainly no vet as far as I'm concerned.
EPT
