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chaoser is helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards him or myself (iGrok).
Sleeper Cell Mafia + Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction: Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules: Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account / looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting: Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it or you risk modkill.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Feel free to ask us anything, but do us a favor and read the rules before you ask.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If what you say is against the TL forum rules in general, we also reserve the right to call a TL mod down on your sorry ass.
Play to win.
Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in a separate thread, which will be created when this game starts. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses). 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups: This game is open to anyone who has played at least 1 game of TL mafia. Signups will remain open until all 15 spots have been filled.
Game-specific rules: Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you wish to contest a modkill, please do so in the Ban Thread, do not continue to post in this thread.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game unless your role allows for it.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is MIDNIGHT, US East Time, but that is subject to change.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Thanks to flamewheel and Qatol for helping to balancing this game. Even a game as seemingly simple as this was pretty difficult to balance. Thanks again to Qatol for providing the Mafia OP 2.0
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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ROLES
This is a semi-closed setup. Some Roles and their abilities will be disclosed, however role counts will not be. There is at least one of every Roles below. There may be other Roles not listed.
TOWN-ALIGNED ROLES
HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
INTELLIGENCE AGENT: Agent 007, that's you! You're cool, calm, and collected, with a license to kill. You have the ability to shoot one person at night. However, your tendency to leave carcasses everywhere has left you on probation; If you kill again, you will lose your License! If you are alive at the end of the game, you'll get the girl!
INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: The Agent may be the muscle, but you’re the brain of the SIA. You have access to super cool technology and have a PHD in Psychology so you may investigate one player's alignment each night. Unfortunately, your PHD is from ITT Tech so sometimes you mess up. You have a 25% chance of finding "Insufficient Information for Analysis".
SLEEPER AGENT: As a young child, you were constantly reminded of your mission. Every day, you would wake up and stare down the picture on your bedside table: your target, President Qatol. You moved to his hometown and was preparing to kill him, when all of a sudden the police arrived. You do not know any of the other Cell member's identities. Each night, you will leave a message naming the player you believe should be killed in a dead drop (mine and chaoser's pm inbox). Investigations of you return "Not Town".
CELL LEADER: Your entire life has been devoted to running your tiny cell of agents. The time has come to put them into action. You know the names of all other Agents. You always returns "Insufficient Information for Analysis" to investigations. Each night, you will recieve a list of agents and their votes. In the event of a TIE in voting, or if ALL nominations are agents, you may cast tiebreaking vote. In the event of death, flips Cell Leader and a new Cell Leader is chosen by RNG between remaining Agents. You may send a message consisting of 5 words or 20 characters to any agent at dawn and dusk of each day. Submit it like a normal action. The message can't contain the name of any player. The message is PM'd to both myself and chaoser. We will send it to the player you specify. Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". Feel free to crumb, just don't put the name (or any form of the name) in there. If all agents are dead, you may choose each kill.
Mafia wins when they outnumber Town and Town has no killing roles remaining. Mafia will kill the submitted name with a simple majority of votes.
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PLAYER LIST:
[X] 1. Impervious [X] 2. Jackal58 [X] 3. Mr. Wiggles [X] 4. GMarshal [X] 5. GGQ [X] 6. Ace [X] 7. Rean [X] 8. Eiii [X] 9. Kenpachi [X] 10. Tackster [X] 11. why VarpuliS [X] 12. tnkted [X] 13. Zorkmid bumatlarge [X] 14. Vain [X] 15. darmousseh [X] 16. Sandroba
Replacement List: 1. BrownBear 2. bumatlarge 3. VarpuliS 4. LSB
This game will not start until all 15 slots are filled. This game will not start until after TL Mafia is completed, so if you are playing in TLMafia, you are welcome to join!
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United States22154 Posts
/in
I like these mechanics
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/in
Can we use fake words?
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Starting after XXXVIII? I'm /in
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/in
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Maybe this time people will believe me if I claim hacker? :p
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United States22154 Posts
EDIT: nvm I found it ^_^
Should be fun
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On April 09 2011 09:11 GMarshal wrote: A question, is this going to start after XXXVIII is over or as soon as its full?
[N] Sleeper Cell Mafia - (thread not created yet) due to start after XXXVIII (iGrok is host)
From Active Game Thread so after
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/in! if its after xxxviii!
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Thanks to everyone who likes the mechanics ^^
Also, what do you mean "fake words" LSB?
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damn lol, three more people.
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United States22154 Posts
Well it looks like a pretty damn fun game, what did you expect
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igrok, do you think this will start within the next three weeks?
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On April 13 2011 05:40 Lanaia wrote: igrok, do you think this will start within the next three weeks?
I think it's supposed to start when XXXVIII finishes.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Yeah this will start after BrownBear's game. I guess if everyone in here dies fast then you can start it early =P
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why not just start this when it's full?
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I'll start once everyone in here in TLMafia is dead or tells me they can handle both.
I'll also keep track of who is ok to go!
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On April 13 2011 06:41 Ace wrote: why not just start this when it's full?
Honestly this is more like a mini game than a normal game.
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On April 09 2011 10:24 iGrok wrote: Thanks to everyone who likes the mechanics ^^
Also, what do you mean "fake words" LSB? hellomynameislsb. or something like that? Or 23478xj5 a random string of letters that would mean something with a decoder?
Each would be 1 word
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In addition, can the contents of the PM be posted in thread by players?
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Are the checkboxes in the player list to indicate "ready to go"?
Because if so, check me off because I'm ready to start whenever (although posting will be hard this weekend, but I doubt the game will start before then).
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On April 13 2011 12:26 why wrote: Are the checkboxes in the player list to indicate "ready to go"?
Because if so, check me off because I'm ready to start whenever (although posting will be hard this weekend, but I doubt the game will start before then).
Yes they are,and will do
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wait, nvm, i'm a idiot, wrong topic
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im still in Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia I but that is due to end just before/after Mafia XXXVIII so can i join? if so /IN
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I'll /in since I'm not doing anything other than hosting a game right now.
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One more! Come on everyone in XXXVIII, die already (vain, you too).
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United States22154 Posts
Well, I'm dead, so its fine to start by me.
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Take me off replacements im gonna need to /sit out this.
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I'm probably going to have to /out. I'm sorry.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Yeah sounds good actually. Just go ahead and start this whenever you please.
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We're adding one additional spot to this game. Please post if you would like to join.
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/in I'm currently playing in the mini mafia, but I would like to join this aswell if possible.
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All ready here, I already won XXXVIII :D
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On April 18 2011 13:05 sandroba wrote: /in I'm currently playing in the mini mafia, but I would like to join this aswell if possible.
No your not^^
Also mini mafia ended so i'm ready to go!
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Oh yeah, I died a while ago in XXXVIII, so I'M READY. Yeah! :p
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[ ] 1. Impervious, GGQ, LSB, Kenpachi, Tackster, and darmousseh need to check in as soon as they are ready. This game will start either when TLXXXVIII is over or when all players have checked in
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/in as a replacement. (only spot left)
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i'm ready
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Im ready
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Didn't LSB get shot by vig already in mafia xxxviii? What about trackster, is he busy?
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On April 21 2011 15:22 sandroba wrote: Didn't LSB get shot by vig already in mafia xxxviii? What about trackster, is he busy?
Well zorkmid is still too in mafia xxviii and i didn't see anyone vote for him jet
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Because I said I was waiting until after XXXVIII to start. If everyone in it is ready, I'll start early
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Me too. I think the rules for mafia need to be more clear.
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Not the kind of fix I was talking about.
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Rofl, I know. I also need my fix AND I think the rule for the terrorist side should be more clear. I can see how silly my last post seems to be.
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Can you clarify some of the rules for me? As far as I can tell as an sleeper agent you can never kill each other, is that correct? even if the votes goes: 3x agent1 2xagent2 1xtownie, the target will be townie? Also cell leader can use the message ability only once per game? Thanks in advance. Cheers.
In the above situation, agent1 would be killed. Unless there is a tie, or only agent targets, the GF cannot switch the kill.
The GF has a rather active role this game: its his job to somehow alert his agents to the names of all the other agents, precisely so that they don't vote for each other.
However, we are making a slight change to the GF role. He will now be allowed to send one message at dawn and another at dusk.
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GF's role is to let his agents know who their fellow agents are, but according to the rules he can't outright say the names or breadcrumb them, so it kind of sounds like he's not supposed to talk about the agents at all. What's considered a breadcrumb, then? If all the agents vote for agent 1 is saying 'you guys voted for an agent' a breadcrumb? Is taking words from an agent's posts to use as the night message a breadcrumb?
I suppose I'm just confused since it seems like the GF has to toe some mysterious line where anything past it is considered too easy to decipher. :S
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So are the messages sent through the day/night posts, or are they sent through PM?
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Here's chaoser's take on the no-crumb part:
i thought it was an interesting mechanic, cause then it's about the GF figuring out waysto tell his agents who is who without us knowing, through the messenges. If it's particularly clever and we don't catch on to it, then i'd applaud the GF for beign so smart and his agents for figuring it out
Looking at it more and more, I'm inclined to remove the breadcrumbing restriction from the messages. I'll listen to any public feedback though.
Messages are sent through PM as follows: GF pms me with message and recipient, I pm recipient with message.
EDIT: Bolded for emphasis.
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XXXVIII is over :D id appreciate it if you start it asap
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Wait, so does he only get to send one message to one agent, one message to all the agents, or one message to each agent separately, once per evening/night?
Also, what's the restriction on five words, for example, can you send string of letters/numbers, like AHOJOSFZOBKFJAKBAJJKBKNO, like a cipher, and then send the key to solve it, or does that break the rule? Also, I'm assuming you can't actually send names (of ANY player), just breadcrumbs?
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Blue for super emphasis:
The crumbing in messages restriction has been removed. It was leading this game to be more like a themed-game, and less like a normal game with one (radically) different mechanic.
So to revise and clarify how GF and Agents work:
AGENTS: Do not know the names of ANY other RED players. Each night, they submit via pm to MYSELF AND CHAOSER the name of they player they think should be killed. Agents show up NOT TOWN to Investigations.
GF: Knows the names of all other RED names. always returns "Insufficient Information for Analysis". In the event of a TIE in voting, or if ALL nominations are agents, may cast tiebreaking vote. In the event of death, flips GF and a new GF is RNG'd between remaining Agents. May send a message consisting of 5 words or 20 characters to any agent at dawn and dusk of each day. Submit it like a normal action. The message can't contain the name of any player. The message is PM'd to both myself and chaoser. We will send it to the player you specify. Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule will result in the message being "lost". Feel free to crumb, just don't put the name (or any form of the name) in there. If all agents are dead, you may choose each kill.
MAFIA GENERAL RULES: Mafia wins when they outnumber Town and Town has no killing roles remaining.
OP will be updated to reflect this.
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Oh, and we will start at 10:00pm EST the day that the now-empty slot is filled.
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Oh, I thought the message would be broadcast to all agents! Hmm, that changes things...
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Very well, we will begin at 10:00 pm EST today. That's 11:00 am KST (TL time).
Roles will be pm'd to you by 9:00 pm. If there are any further clarification questions, ask now ^^
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Just testing the [time ] command. Game should start at:
02:00 GMT (+00:00)
e: it works
The CIA agent can only shoot twice, is that correct? Or is it only once?
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The CIA Agent may only shoot once and yes thats the proper time
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Sorry after thinking about it I better /out from this one, sorry. Hope someone else shows up in time.
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Are the agents/Agent/Analyst flipped?
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On April 24 2011 22:35 Impervious wrote: Are the agents/Agent/Analyst flipped? Yes.
Game will be postponed until tomorrow if another player isn't found by 6pm EST
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If you need another player I can /in if you give me like a hour to understand the rules and stuff ^^
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On April 24 2011 23:08 Rean wrote: If you need another player I can /in if you give me like a hour to understand the rules and stuff ^^ Awesome ^^
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On April 24 2011 22:57 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 22:35 Impervious wrote: Are the agents/Agent/Analyst flipped? Yes.Game will be postponed until tomorrow if another player isn't found by 6pm EST
Edit: Never mind, Welcome my fellow dutchman
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Dammit, too late to fill the empty spot. hf guys.
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Are we still starting tonight or is it tomorrow?
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The game begins in 4 hours.
All pms should have been received by now. If you have not received yours, please pm me ^^
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Since the godfather is an assigned role in this game (I'm assuming from the mafia role descriptions), we are starting with day 1 rather than a night 0, yes?
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Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role.
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/confirm
Are you the bus driver?
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United States22154 Posts
On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role.
Bread-crumbing already huh? LYNCH HIM!
Too bad I noticed "I got a strange role" is a five word phrase! trying to communicate with your buddies...
##Vote: tnkted
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Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES
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aaaand now i've made myself the center of conversation already. Awesome.
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On April 25 2011 07:38 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. Bread-crumbing already huh? LYNCH HIM! Too bad I noticed "I got a strange role" is a five word phrase! trying to communicate with your buddies... ##Vote: tnkted Honestly, I'm not sure what to think at this point. A phrase like that indicates he's not a normal citizen, however, I'm not sure what he actually is.
I mean, I can't see a single reason why any role would say that..... It gives away that you have a role.....
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On April 25 2011 07:45 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:38 GMarshal wrote:On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. Bread-crumbing already huh? LYNCH HIM! Too bad I noticed "I got a strange role" is a five word phrase! trying to communicate with your buddies... ##Vote: tnkted Honestly, I'm not sure what to think at this point. A phrase like that indicates he's not a normal citizen, however, I'm not sure what he actually is. I mean, I can't see a single reason why any role would say that..... It gives away that you have a role.....
It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it.
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Yeah, because you're obviously not Green. This means you're either blue or red, and you possibly got a role not listed in the OP. I don't think this is enough to lynch you, because there might be a VI or something, but this means reds are maybe gonna target you, and that's bad if you're a blue.
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On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:45 Impervious wrote:On April 25 2011 07:38 GMarshal wrote:On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. Bread-crumbing already huh? LYNCH HIM! Too bad I noticed "I got a strange role" is a five word phrase! trying to communicate with your buddies... ##Vote: tnkted Honestly, I'm not sure what to think at this point. A phrase like that indicates he's not a normal citizen, however, I'm not sure what he actually is. I mean, I can't see a single reason why any role would say that..... It gives away that you have a role..... It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. The problem is that if you claim as a townie, you're dead by tomorrow..... Unless there's some kind of role that's not listed in the OP that would prevent you from dying.....
Which would be weird.....
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United States22154 Posts
On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES
Right, scum, keep on talking (it was an obvious joke, why are you so nervous... have something to hide?)
also as far as your role goes I think I know what it is, you see I'm a Telepath and I got to see your role you are
Welcome to Sleeper Cell Mafia you are The Mystic Avenger you live only to quench your thirst of vengeance. You will kill those bastards that murdered your family, see if you wont! You win when the serial killer and the Mass Murderer are dead. Thankfully you have some equipment to help you.
1.) Astral tables: Quite easy to use all you do is submit a number equal to the leading coefficient of the sum of all vowels used in all of your posts, ever, and then submit this number to the mod and three outside sources, if you figured it out right you will be told the astral signs of all players in the game, you know that the SK and MM are both sagitarius.
2.) Avenging Blade- its a sword of pure flame, you use it to smite the enemy, at any point you may type ##Smite Player in the thread and the player will be killed, if you hit an innocent (someone who has not killed anyone) the blade kills you as well.
3.) True Faith- If you die you may PM the mod a 100 word or less prayer. it will be edited into the OP as "divine revelation". Also you are immune to one night kill or one lynch, whichever comes first.
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Also, warning people now, I have exams Tuesday/Wednesday, so I might be little inactive Tomorrow and Tuesday. I'm going to read the thread, and I'll post, but I won't be adding anything huge, most likely, just my quick thoughts and ideas.
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1500, wasted!~!!!!!
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United States22154 Posts
Trolling posts aside, tnkted at this point you've given away the fact you are a blue or something . Seriously what was the point of that? I'm not going to try to get you lynched as if you aren't scum the mafia is going to be curious enough to try to kill you, especially if its as you claim a "weird" role. Did you learn nothing of Insane 2? If you have a role not in the OP, then so might the mafia, do you *want* to be mind controlled?
/applause
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United States22154 Posts
On April 25 2011 07:52 tnkted wrote: ...fuck
##smite GMarshal
##Mind Shield Mr.WIggles
see due to a loophole in the wording of the mind shield portion of my PM, if I protect *anyone* I cannot be killed either ^_^
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I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.
I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok...
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Please refrain from talking about anything involving the game (other than questions) until the day post.
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Ok, except I have a secret role too:
Welcome to Sleeper Cell Mafia you are the Empath and are the bane of all psychic users. Your goal is to hunt down the Communist Mind Disruptor and the Communist Psychic Ravager, and have been trained specifically to combat psychic threats.
1) Psychic Barrier: After years of training, your mind has become an impenetrable fortress, rendering you immune to all psychic effects.
2) Nerve Gas: This is an experimental gas, which disrupts the pathways in the brain conducive to psychic abilities. Each day, you may ##Gas one player, permanently disabling any psychic abilities they may have.
3) Silenced Pistol: They may have psychic powers, but they aren't bullet-proof! Each day you may ##Shoot one player, killing them.
So I'm immune to your protection and it will fail, sorry GM.
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/confirm. Got my pm
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I am going to be here until shortly after the day post guys. I get up before 5 for work so I gotta get some sleep. I just don't want to wake up to screams of "lurker" I don't lurk. I sleep.
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United States22154 Posts
On April 25 2011 10:32 Jackal58 wrote:I am going to be here until shortly after the day post guys. I get up before 5 for work so I gotta get some sleep. I just don't want to wake up to screams of "lurker" I don't lurk. I sleep.
Sleep is for weak people! Healthy, sane, well rested weak people, but weak people nonetheless!
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On April 25 2011 09:54 darmousseh wrote:/confirm. Got my pm
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On April 25 2011 10:34 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 10:32 Jackal58 wrote:I am going to be here until shortly after the day post guys. I get up before 5 for work so I gotta get some sleep. I just don't want to wake up to screams of "lurker" I don't lurk. I sleep. Sleep is for weak people! Healthy, sane, well rested weak people, but weak people nonetheless! I didn't get any super secret psychic powers in my PM to keep me awake for 24 hours. Nobody ever gives me a mind bomb. I'll just have to be weak.
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Breaking News "It was just another day in the little town of Liquidville (Population: 16). But a 5:00 p.m., the beautiful spring day was interrupted by by the sound of a Police raid on the house of flamewheel. After taking Mr. wheel into custody, the team found a large cache of weapons hidden inside his brand new grand piano.
Deputy Director Chaoser, of the Secret Intelligence Agency, had this to say:
"Two weeks ago, we determined that flamewheel was a terrorist agent after we captured a Grand Piano filled with weapons being shipped to his address. We had hoped that by tracking his movements and communications, we would be able to tell who he was working with. However, no evidence of outside communication could be found. He is currently undergoing an interr...view... regarding his methods of communication. Citizens are advised to keep their eyes open for any suspicious behavior and alert me directly; SIA agents are already in place to investigate. Any suspicious individuals are subject to immediate arrest."
Well, this is a terrifying revelation. Authorites say that as much as 1/3 of the total population of Liquidville could be affiliated with the sleeper cell. No one is clear from suspicion. Remember, citizens, report any suspicious activity!
This is Chaoser of the Channel 4 News Team, signing off."
Day 1 begins. The day will end at 22:00 EST April 26.
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1/3??? So five scum? Or 6? Fuck dude. How many KP do they have? I don't see that in the OP.
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United States22154 Posts
Lets kick off the discussion shall we?
As I see it in this setup many traditional mafia "tells" dont apply as the mafia (except for the leader) have the same information as the town does, hell they don't even know who is going to die before they do. This means that we have to look for tells based not on more knowledge, but on pure behavior. I know this is a small distinction but I think its important enough to point out.
As far as the blue roles we know we have at least one of vigi's should obviously shoot lurkers or people they are sure are scum, while our dts need push to lynch any red results they get, and I suggest any "not enough data" results they get, as the mafia leader hides behind those.
Yeah, I don't know what else to say.
Onto making people post
##Vote:Sandroba
I noticed you in the Surprisingly Normal. Do you have any thoughts on the setup?
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On April 25 2011 11:15 GMarshal wrote: Lets kick off the discussion shall we?
As I see it in this setup many traditional mafia "tells" dont apply as the mafia (except for the leader) have the same information as the town does, hell they don't even know who is going to die before they do. This means that we have to look for tells based not on more knowledge, but on pure behavior. I know this is a small distinction but I think its important enough to point out. Indeed. Analysis in this setup will be a bit different than in a game where scum all know each other. Even trying to look at voting patterns won't tell much. Will be hilarious though when one scummy fos' another and gets him lynched. I suppose a situation like that would perhaps aid in finding the GF. But even that will be difficult to pick up on. Know that this has started and I have my game hat on these mechanics are going to make this a very different type of game.
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Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed.
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Analysis in this setup is still the same as a normal setup. The main difference here is that associating people by alignment in the beginning is much harder.
Scum still know they are Scum and that almost everyone else is Town. That shouldn't drastically altar their behavior.
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On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed.
Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE
btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight!
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On April 25 2011 11:11 Jackal58 wrote: 1/3??? So five scum? Or 6? Fuck dude. How many KP do they have? I don't see that in the OP.
The number of scum is unknown exactly. Reading the godfather's ability carefully indicates that the scum have only one KP. That means that even with 5 mafia, it's going to a while before lylo.
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Oh hmmm. It's only 16 people, I thought it was 20. Nvm, it would be 2 days to mylo, or lylo if a vig shoots.
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Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well.
I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names.
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I'm going to throw some thoughts out there.
I think in this setup; the sleeper agents would want the game to go on as long as possible. This would allow more communication, as well as the ability to only kill non-agent positions (rather than mislynch). Once they've identified each other, this will quickly change, however.
Then again, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that the intelligence analyst can identify the reds and then claim who they all are. The downside is that they need to claim and give the town their info before they die.....
I'm not sure how this is going to play out, but it's going to require a different play style than a conventional mafia game. I'm not sure who will benefit more from a shorter game, and who will benefit more from a longer game.
Also, I'd be looking for any unusual word choices/phrases that a player could use to help identify themselves to/complete a clue they left the sleeper agents. Unfortunately, we probably won't know what the clues will really mean, but it could lead us to the cell leader, or a red faking as the cell leader to take pressure off the leader.
That all being said, I think we need to at least pressure people during the day. While it would suck to pressure a blue role, it's more likely that we'd pressure a red role, which could lead us to an early advantage through a good lynch. And anyone who is lurking will not be an asset to the town, so they're definitely good choices to pressure, if we don't have a lead on anyone else.
I know there was something else I thought of earlier, but I didn't write it down, and I didn't post it cause iGrok told us to stop posting until the game started -_-
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On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote:
Also, I'd be looking for any unusual word choices/phrases that a player could use to help identify themselves to/complete a clue they left the sleeper agents. Unfortunately, we probably won't know what the clues will really mean, but it could lead us to the cell leader, or a red faking as the cell leader to take pressure off the leader.
Great idea. With only 1 player knowing all of the identities it would take them a long time to individually reveal all the information to each Agent. So there may be codewords or themes to try and hint to Agents what alignment they are.
So if we ever see out of ordinary phrases and words between multiple players then we have a link.
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Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2.
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You do know posting a public breadcrumb defeats the purpose of proving you breadcrumbed later right?
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On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote: I think in this setup; the sleeper agents would want the game to go on as long as possible. This would allow more communication, as well as the ability to only kill non-agent positions (rather than mislynch). Once they've identified each other, this will quickly change, however.
Then again, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that the intelligence analyst can identify the reds and then claim who they all are. The downside is that they need to claim and give the town their info before they die.....
In my experience, a short game means a mafia sweep with no losses while a longer game means at least a few mafia get killed. So I don't think the mafia wants the game to go on as long as possible at all.
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Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how.
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On April 25 2011 12:27 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote: I think in this setup; the sleeper agents would want the game to go on as long as possible. This would allow more communication, as well as the ability to only kill non-agent positions (rather than mislynch). Once they've identified each other, this will quickly change, however.
Then again, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that the intelligence analyst can identify the reds and then claim who they all are. The downside is that they need to claim and give the town their info before they die..... In my experience, a short game means a mafia sweep with no losses while a longer game means at least a few mafia get killed. So I don't think the mafia wants the game to go on as long as possible at all. While I agree that traditional mafia games that are short are usually sweeps, it really helps when you know for sure who your allies are..... This isn't a normal mafia game.....
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Well, let me post my thoughts: This setup must be extremelly unconfortable for mafia as they don't know the identities of each other, at least in the begining. We have to assume that at maximum 1 sleeper agent knows the identities of his buddy per day/night cycle. The mindset for scum this game, specially early on, is that they don't want to post strong analysis and strong opnions because 1)they might get their buddies lynched 2)they might attract a shot from his buddies at night, so doing this benefits the town even more in this setup. We should push extremelly hard for activity and FoS on anyone not willing to commit. ##Vote: Vain You took the time to post here but haven't said anything relevant. You have done that on the previous game as well, so this is a null tell for me. But specially in this game this kind of behaviour (active lurking/contentless posts) is extremelly detrimental for town for the reasons I stated above. My vote goes to you unless you step up your game and play pro-town.
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On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how.
eh how? The point of bread crumbs is to prove something before it happens via hidden clues. So how in the world is that going to help us find the Cell Leader?
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Hi guys, last three games i either died or got lynched day 1, please don't, i'm town and I want to help town out.
Also FOS on anyone suggesting that we use vigilante right away as we have zero information right now.
That is all for now.
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On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight!
Vain, I hope you aren't a dt because that is the most obvious blue tell ever in my opinion.
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I find these couple of posts you just made very suspicious darmousseh. First post you are very defensive and points out obvious things for a blue role. Then next post you quote the guy who did the exact same thing as you AND say it was an obvious blue tell? Why do you want us to believe you are blue?
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I guess being defensive with no pressure should be looked at suspiciously. However, I don't think his post about vigilantes was a "blue tell". If you believe that he just dropped a blue tell then you're prior statement about him making you suspicious makes no sense.
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I believe he did it on purpose. Pointing out a blue tell and at the same time doing the same thing to clear him of suspicion.
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EBWOP: I also agree that pointing out vigilantes is not a blue tell, but neither is the post he quoted, which is basically the same thing. If he thinks that what vain did is a blue tell he wouldn't do it if he was blue. He would only do it if he wants to appear to be blue.
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On April 25 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote: EBWOP: I also agree that pointing out vigilantes is not a blue tell, but neither is the post he quoted, which is basically the same thing. If he thinks that what vain did is a blue tell he wouldn't do it if he was blue. He would only do it if he wants to appear to be blue.
I did it because it's the biggest blue tell in the world.
"Hey guys, let's dt check someone, don't mind me". It's just bad play, that's it. I have no FoS on him, i'm just saying that if he is dt, then we are screwed because mafia would probably pick that up faster than I did.
For this very reason, I recommend a dt checks vein because if he isn't the dt, then he's probably scum with the whole "don't mind me" phrase.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Your breadcrumbing thing almost got me killed in XXXVII. A. Because you worded your question weirdly B. Because I'm not that bright. Please don't get me killed.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how. I kinda understand what you are saying but how can we identify a breadcrumb if we only see half of it? Maybe if somebody keeps using the same word or phrase repeatedly but even then it would be hard to pick out. If you have a suggestion for how we might be able to spot these please feel free to share. I have trouble spotting breadcrumbs when I know what I'm supposed to be looking for.
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On April 25 2011 16:10 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote: EBWOP: I also agree that pointing out vigilantes is not a blue tell, but neither is the post he quoted, which is basically the same thing. If he thinks that what vain did is a blue tell he wouldn't do it if he was blue. He would only do it if he wants to appear to be blue. I did it because it's the biggest blue tell in the world. "Hey guys, let's dt check someone, don't mind me". It's just bad play, that's it. I have no FoS on him, i'm just saying that if he is dt, then we are screwed because mafia would probably pick that up faster than I did. For this very reason, I recommend a dt checks vein because if he isn't the dt, then he's probably scum with the whole "don't mind me" phrase.
Uh, i only stated they should maybe check twice because there is a big chance(25%) they come out wrongly. Now why would i point that out if i was a dt? that reasoning makes not sence at all.
For now we should obviously get the inactives posting a bit so we have actually something to analyze. Here is a list of post done by people as of the start of the day till now.
1. Jackal58: 4 2. Ace: 4 3. sandroba 3 4. GGQ 3 5. darmousseh 3 6. Vain 2 7. Mr. Wiggles 2 8. Impervious 2 9. tnkted 1 10. GMarshal 1
Not posted jet: Zorkmid, why, Tackster, Kenpachi, Eiii, Rean,
Note: List is made from high to low posts. Other than that the persons are in no particular order. This list only represents the posting activity not the quality of the post themselves
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United States22154 Posts
Ladies and Gentlemen. I have a plan, a plan that costs us nothing and and aids us in defeating or at least confusing the mafia's ability to "crumb" with specific words or phrases. Don't know what I'm getting at? sence the mafia are going to likely identify each other based on a few words or phrases I am going to mimic peoples posts and steal whole sentences and words that seem suspicious to me. This way if the mafia is revealing themselves by key phrases I confuse them into either believing I am one of them or not being able to use code phrases, I suggest you all do the same, I mean we dont know if it will work jet, but anything that causes confusion amongst the scum team will help us.
I also suggest that if multiple people quote a post others of us do the same, as that might be a method of identification as well.
Also I agree we need to keep up the posting activity, as quality posts are important to foster discussion.
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On April 25 2011 11:40 Ace wrote: Analysis in this setup is still the same as a normal setup. The main difference here is that associating people by alignment in the beginning is much harder.
Scum still know they are Scum and that almost everyone else is Town. That shouldn't drastically altar their behavior.
I was thinking about this on my way to work Ace. (Hour + drive and I spend it thinking about Mafia. I need help.) In this setup would it not be even more beneficial for scum to lurk? Why I ask is it would seem to me that if what Wiggles said is true "scum can kill scum" and we can lynch them when they slip up what incentive do they have to post at all other than to avoid a mod kill? If they try to appear town their scum buddies can kill them. If they try to hide and skate we'll lynch them. I understand that scum still know they're scum but I believe this setup will drastically alter their behavior. As in making it almost non existent. So to that end I would like iGrok to verify Wiggles statement of scum being able to kill scum. I'm not getting that from the OP. And if that is the way it works I'm thinking we should just lynch the least active player each day. Maybe I'm thinking to much into this.
Can scum hit scum at night?
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On April 25 2011 21:35 GMarshal wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen. I have a plan, a plan that costs us nothing and and aids us in defeating or at least confusing the mafia's ability to "crumb" with specific words or phrases. Don't know what I'm getting at? sence the mafia are going to likely identify each other based on a few words or phrases I am going to mimic peoples posts and steal whole sentences and words that seem suspicious to me. This way if the mafia is revealing themselves by key phrases I confuse them into either believing I am one of them or not being able to use code phrases, I suggest you all do the same, I mean we dont know if it will work jet, but anything that causes confusion amongst the scum team will help us.
I also suggest that if multiple people quote a post others of us do the same, as that might be a method of identification as well.
Also I agree we need to keep up the posting activity, as quality posts are important to foster discussion.
Wouldn't they just search for the original post? Might slow them down a bit maybe.
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I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of.
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On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share.
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On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2.
I completely agree with method number 2 here. Behaviour analysis is going to be our main weapon, as always. As we get further into the game, it will become even easier to compare the behaviour of mafia from day1 and 2 when they most likely don't know each other to how they are acting on the next days (3+) which they most likely figured it out.
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On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. If you can't think of one it's in my best interest not to share, because maybe the cell leader cannot think of one aswell. Why do you want me to share it?
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On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share.
Well for instance the cell leader could hint them who is who. It is stated in the first post that the cell leader is allowed to breadcrumb. He can also send that pm at dusk and down so in theory he could give some direction to who to vote for to lynch at dawn and also who to hit at dusk.
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United States22154 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of.
As I see it there are only a few basic ways for the mafia to communicate.
1.) The GF reveals individualy who each member is to another member with a message such as "the pardoner is mafia" this is going to take forever and is not an optimal use of messaging
2.) The GF orchestrates something like "everyone change their signature to 'death and destruction' (which is why I am keeping track of peoples signatures) it is going to be an obvious reveal if so
3.) the GF organizes no obvious breadcrumbing something like "include three typos per post" or "use the word spectral" by implementing my strategy we stomp on any such plan. There might be work arounds but I have to wonder if the GF can figure it out and inform the rest of the team in only five word messages.
I find it curious that you oppose this plan, whats so bad about it sand?
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On April 25 2011 21:53 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. If you can't think of one it's in my best interest not to share, because maybe the cell leader cannot think of one aswell. Why do you want me to share it? So we would know what to look for. I hadn't considered what the cell leader may or may not be capable of thinking of.
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United States22154 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:57 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. Well for instance the cell leader could hint them who is who. It is stated in the first post that the cell leader is allowed to breadcrumb. He can also send that pm at dusk and down so in theory he could give some direction to who to vote for to lynch at dawn and also who to hit at dusk.
He isn't allowed to use player names, period, so thats going to be difficult to say the least. Yes the cell leader can hint at who is who but he has five words or 20 characters to do it in, its going to be a bitch to inform 1/3 of the players in this game about each others identity without being able to send out names. Assume it takes him one PM to reveal one player ,which makes sense as he can't just say it so he'd have to say something like "DT in Surprisingly Normal Mafia" to reveal a player assuming 5 members that means its going to take him 2 and a half days to inform everyone, (this is assuming any PMs are sent out to the whole group, if they are sent to individuals its even harder).
If they want to be efficient they have to find a way to post it in the thread, and thats what this plan sets out to hinder.
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United States22154 Posts
Also on "the cell leader may not have come up with it" I think its always a good idea to assume the opposition is as smart as you are, if not smarter.
I understand if you don't want to reveal it, but if it requires posting in the thread we can find it, spoof it, or otherwise sabotage it.
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On April 25 2011 21:57 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. Well for instance the cell leader could hint them who is who. It is stated in the first post that the cell leader is allowed to breadcrumb. He can also send that pm at dusk and down so in theory he could give some direction to who to vote for to lynch at dawn and also who to hit at dusk.
Which would still take a lot of time. As far as I see there is no way for the CL to mass communicate to all the Scum in the game without us picking up on it.
Either way I've got a different question for everyone:
Look at the player list. Let's pretend you were the Cell Leader for a second. What 3 players on the list would you send a message to and what would it be? (assume everyone is Scum for a second so you can just pick anyone)
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On April 25 2011 22:06 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:57 Vain wrote:On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. Well for instance the cell leader could hint them who is who. It is stated in the first post that the cell leader is allowed to breadcrumb. He can also send that pm at dusk and down so in theory he could give some direction to who to vote for to lynch at dawn and also who to hit at dusk. He isn't allowed to use player names, period, so thats going to be difficult to say the least. Yes the cell leader can hint at who is who but he has five words or 20 characters to do it in, its going to be a bitch to inform 1/3 of the players in this game about each others identity without being able to send out names. Assume it takes him one PM to reveal one player ,which makes sense as he can't just say it so he'd have to say something like "DT in Surprisingly Normal Mafia" to reveal a player assuming 5 members that means its going to take him 2 and a half days to inform everyone, (this is assuming any PMs are sent out to the whole group, if they are sent to individuals its even harder). If they want to be efficient they have to find a way to post it in the thread, and thats what this plan sets out to hinder.
Oh, never mind that. I assumed the pm's were send out to every scum player but the first post states otherwise. Well in my opinion this will clutter the debate a bit but if it works we could have a very good edge on the mafia. So i suggest we will follow this plan.
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"CELL LEADER: You may send a message consisting of 5 words or 20 characters to any agent at dawn and dusk of each day. Submit it like a normal action. The message can't contain the name of any player. The message is PM'd to both myself and chaoser. We will send it to the player you specify. Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". Feel free to crumb, just don't put the name (or any form of the name) in there."
We have to assume a max of 5 mafia. One of them is the cell leader. We have to assume the cell leader can think of a way of informing one agent per day and per night of their buddies. So by day 3 all agents should know each other. We have no way of knowing that the method he is going to use is the one you sugested, and the fact that it's been sugested makes it even less likely. Discussing this extensively is not going to create a town atmosphere that favors town as it's an useless discussion that everyone can chime in without revealing any information. I suggest that we focus on behaviour analysis and start to pressure inactives and people that make useless posts.
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Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts?
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United States22154 Posts
I like that question, I'll take the first shot at answering it.
Now, I'm assuming one person is receiving the message.
1.) Ace- "I'm the pardoner from XXXVIII": with a veteran player like Ace I would be trying to get as much information to him as possible, information is power and even with only a little bit of it I'm sure he could get stuff done
2.) Mr. Wiggles - " mafia will post 'serial killer' " or some other breadcrumb that would allow me to reveal myself to him and then the rest of the team. I might think of a more clever breadcrumb than that, and if it were clever enough I might use it for ace instead.
3.) why- same as for wiggles, as a veteran player both of them are people I could count on to work it into their regular posts without worrying too much about them messing up.
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On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts?
Even if you double checked someone and got "Incomplete Analysis" it's a waste of time. If you get it once and you checked the person because you assumed they were scum it's better to come out with it and play the odds that they are CL and not that you hit the 25% chance you rolled the wrong result.
Also there may be other roles not listed in the OP that have this same effect. Whether they are good or bad you won't know so you could end up wasting another day of your check to get you no further than your first check. Just roll with the odds on this one.
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On April 25 2011 22:43 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts? Even if you double checked someone and got "Incomplete Analysis" it's a waste of time. If you get it once and you checked the person because you assumed they were scum it's better to come out with it and play the odds that they are CL and not that you hit the 25% chance you rolled the wrong result. Also there may be other roles not listed in the OP that have this same effect. Whether they are good or bad you won't know so you could end up wasting another day of your check to get you no further than your first check. Just roll with the odds on this one. That's pretty exactly what I was thinking. I just wanted to make sure I'm not alone on this one.
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Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread.
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On April 25 2011 22:39 GMarshal wrote: I like that question, I'll take the first shot at answering it.
Now, I'm assuming one person is receiving the message.
1.) Ace- "I'm the pardoner from XXXVIII": with a veteran player like Ace I would be trying to get as much information to him as possible, information is power and even with only a little bit of it I'm sure he could get stuff done
2.) Mr. Wiggles - " mafia will post 'serial killer' " or some other breadcrumb that would allow me to reveal myself to him and then the rest of the team. I might think of a more clever breadcrumb than that, and if it were clever enough I might use it for ace instead.
3.) why- same as for wiggles, as a veteran player both of them are people I could count on to work it into their regular posts without worrying too much about them messing up. Nothing against you, but I haven't played or checked out a game where why has played. I would have put you in the 3rd spot.
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On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts?
I think the DT should just push for a lynch on the target 75% chance of having the cell leader is worth the gamble of accidentally getting a town player lynched, IMO. Sure it might suck for the town player getting the shit end of the stick, but hey, we die for the greater glory and all that.
I also think this is usless discussion that allows scum to blend in, I'm sure the mafia is content to debate this to death, rather than worrying about us sabotaging their cutesy plans. Still I want to see what you guys awnser to Ace's question
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On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts?
Well it depends on the case. if you suspect someone heavily of breadcrumbing and get "insufficient analysis" there is a great chance of him being the cell leader. if you checked someone who hasn't posted that much the dt should maybe check again as it could be a blue. If i was a DT i would only double check in very extreme cases. Mind that the Cell leader will post a bit to breadcrumb.
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On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread.
Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more.
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I agree with never double checking. I also think the DT should not reveal himself early and try to push for a lynch based on analysis if he gets a positive result. As there are probably 5 mafia in the game and we don't know how many DTs and no medic, trading for mafia 1 for 1 early is not a good deal for town.
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On April 25 2011 22:47 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts? I think the DT should just push for a lynch on the target 75% chance of having the cell leader is worth the gamble of accidentally getting a town player lynched, IMO. Sure it might suck for the town player getting the shit end of the stick, but hey, we die for the greater glory and all that. I also think this is usless discussion that allows scum to blend in, I'm sure the mafia is content to debate this to death, rather than worrying about us sabotaging their cutesy plans. Still I want to see what you guys awnser to Ace's question Actually, you're wrong with the "75%" thing.
There's a 1/15 chance that the cell leader will be checked tonight (based on pure percentages). There's a 14/15 chance that a non cell leader will be checked tonight (also based on pure percentages).
If the cell leader is checked, it will show up as insufficient analysis. If a non cell leader is checked, it'll show up as insufficient analysis in 25% of the checks.
Ultimately, this means that a result of insufficient analysis tonight leads to a 22.2% chance of actually being the cell leader..... IT IS NOT 75%.
However, lynching them is still the best move. Assuming 4 sleeper cells and the cell leader, out of a total of 15 people who could be checked, it adds up to about a 50% chance of hitting a red by lynching anyone who gets "insufficient analysis" tonight.
When you add in factors like intentionally checking scummy players (increasing your chance of checking the right people), then this is by far the best choice.
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On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents.
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I forgot my 3:
1.) Eiii
If I recall I played in a Mafia game with him a long time ago. I think he's the only one here that was around more than 2 years ago? If so I could send him a message and it would be clearly obvious it was from me.
2.) Jackal58
I think I've also played a game with him before and he didn't suck.
3.) GMarshal/darmousseh/GGQ
I've modded games with all 3 of them participating. All 3 of them played decently in the last game I ran so they'd be prime choices.
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sandroba post your messages too. I'd like to know your relations to whoever you picked.
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I'm not going to post it because I can reveal any 5 people with 20 chars, and maybe the cell leader can't.
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Also my list is based purely on who I think are the best players in this game. Don't feel ofended if I didn't pick you as I've read only a limited number of mafia games.
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huh? I dont understand that.
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On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing.
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Are we voting in this thread, or another thread yet to be created?
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My 3 would be tnkted
Tackster
GMarshall
My messages to all 3 would be from shared game experiences
tnkted would be a simple one My beloved. He would know exactly who sent it.
Tackster would be just as easy. You're easiest. He also would know who it was from.
GMarshall would be a bit more difficult but it would refer to LSB's Clues and Puzzles game where we were both scum together and LSBs first clus was basically Jackal is scum. I'd have to think about how I wrote it but it would allude to that.
All of these are fun and all but basically what I'm seeing from all of these is the CL can reveal himself to cell members one at a time. Does nothing for each cell member to id each other. For that to happen something has to be left in the thread.
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United States22154 Posts
Also I suppose its time I started generating discussion.
##Unvote ##Vote: Mr.Wiggles
do you know why I'm voting for you Mr.Wiggles?
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it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs.
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On April 25 2011 23:28 Jackal58 wrote: My 3 would be tnkted
Tackster
GMarshall
My messages to all 3 would be from shared game experiences
tnkted would be a simple one My beloved. He would know exactly who sent it.
Tackster would be just as easy. You're easiest. He also would know who it was from.
GMarshall would be a bit more difficult but it would refer to LSB's Clues and Puzzles game where we were both scum together and LSBs first clus was basically Jackal is scum. I'd have to think about how I wrote it but it would allude to that.
All of these are fun and all but basically what I'm seeing from all of these is the CL can reveal himself to cell members one at a time. Does nothing for each cell member to id each other. For that to happen something has to be left in the thread.
OFFTOPIC: LOL. dude, i was searching for that post in insane 2 and i couldn't find it, you don't happen to remember what page it was on do you?
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 26 2011 00:11 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 23:28 Jackal58 wrote: My 3 would be tnkted
Tackster
GMarshall
My messages to all 3 would be from shared game experiences
tnkted would be a simple one My beloved. He would know exactly who sent it.
Tackster would be just as easy. You're easiest. He also would know who it was from.
GMarshall would be a bit more difficult but it would refer to LSB's Clues and Puzzles game where we were both scum together and LSBs first clus was basically Jackal is scum. I'd have to think about how I wrote it but it would allude to that.
All of these are fun and all but basically what I'm seeing from all of these is the CL can reveal himself to cell members one at a time. Does nothing for each cell member to id each other. For that to happen something has to be left in the thread.
OFFTOPIC: LOL. dude, i was searching for that post in insane 2 and i couldn't find it, you don't happen to remember what page it was on do you? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200702¤tpage=144#2877
this?
/end offtopic
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On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs.
I have no idea what "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" even refers to. Either way can you just answer the question? It does matter.
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the fuck is this shit.
youre discussing how the gf can crumb in his messages WHEN THATS USELESS TO TOWN. seriously, we dont give a fuck how they crumb because we wont find out about it anyway if mafia is even half-decent.
and now you're even making cutesy lists on who you would message if you were the GF? STOP BEING USELESS. seriously, you people are randomly discussing things that don't get us anywhere.
fos list so far:
ace/tnkted/more idiots filling the thread with bullshit lists
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On April 26 2011 00:18 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. I have no idea what "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" even refers to. Either way can you just answer the question? It does matter.
Rean "GG.org #mafia powerkid follow me" he'd understand why. Jackal "breadcrumb this, my beloved" obvious reasons, follow the link ^. GMarshal "wheels on bus go round" my bus driving skills in insane 2 are the stuff of legend.
If i had to write specific messages. You wouldn't get the twinkle twinkle one because you weren't in insane 2, but almost everyone else will have picked that up.
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On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. I think I disagree with that. I think scum are doing a huge wtf do I do atm. It will be the end of day two at the earliest before they would all know who the GF is. That's assuming 4 sleepers. What do they do in the meantime? Would seem to me they'd have to pretty much hide. With possibly 1/3 of the players having a scum role they run a one in three chance of killing one of their team mates. I think it is most likely that we will see a players activity level increase a bit after he has been contacted by his Leader but even then he most likely will only know 1 member. I think I'm liking towns chances in this the more I think about it.
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On April 26 2011 00:29 Rean wrote: the fuck is this shit.
youre discussing how the gf can crumb in his messages WHEN THATS USELESS TO TOWN. seriously, we dont give a fuck how they crumb because we wont find out about it anyway if mafia is even half-decent.
and now you're even making cutesy lists on who you would message if you were the GF? STOP BEING USELESS. seriously, you people are randomly discussing things that don't get us anywhere.
fos list so far:
ace/tnkted/more idiots filling the thread with bullshit lists
So, what would you like us to talk about then? Should we make an in depth discussion of the merits of lynching inactives? Or discuss what our blues should be doing?
Of course we give a fuck of how mafia crumbs, we might be able to catch them at it!
But still, what do you propose we do to STOP BEING USELESS?
your FoS is reduced to "people are discussing things, I won't offer an alternative but get pissed at them for *talking* how *dare* they start discussing things!"
So Rean, if you had the lynch right now who would you kill and why?
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Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless.
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On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless.
Interestingly enough do you mind if I ask you a question?
Why are these lists useful?
I'd like to hear what reasoning went behind asking us to post these.
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That will become clear soon, I'm just waiting for more lists.
Rean, why, Kenpachi, Zorkmid, Vain, darmousseh, and GGQ still have to post their lists.
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On April 26 2011 00:48 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. Interestingly enough do you mind if I ask you a question? Why are these lists useful? I'd like to hear what reasoning went behind asking us to post these. First thought that crossed my mind is he's the cell leader looking for us to do his breadcrumbing for him. But I'm willing to play along to see where he was going.
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On April 26 2011 00:51 Ace wrote: That will become clear soon, I'm just waiting for more lists.
Rean, why, Kenpachi, Zorkmid, Vain, darmousseh, and GGQ still have to post their lists. They have yet to post at all.
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Same goes for trackster. I noticed he posted in survivor thread yet he refuses to post here.
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On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless.
How about you give us a reason as to why this is NOT a waste of time? How is knowing what everyone would pick in the hypothetical situation they're GF getting us anywhere close to catching scum?
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Read what you just posted and slap yourself for asking a silly question. You just answered your own question.
But ok sir critic, what should we do instead?
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what can i say.. this discussion is odd
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On April 26 2011 01:16 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. How about you give us a reason as to why this is NOT a waste of time? How is knowing what everyone would pick in the hypothetical situation they're GF getting us anywhere close to catching scum?
I'm in agreement with rean, this doesn't seem like it will help at all. It's better to just try to analyze behavior and get information. It is different than normal mafia, but tells shouldn't be any different than a normal game. The biggest difference is that the mafia can't bus anyone and they are likely to be as sheepy as the rest of town and so it will be difficult to determine scum behavior off of voting patterns only.
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On April 25 2011 21:51 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. I don't see any reason whatsoever to limit ourselves in our scumhunting methods. I sure that there are some players here that have skills in doing both. I would encourage everyone to do both 1 AND 2, at least in some form. There's no way to predict what form breadcrumbing will take, so let's not force analysis through a top down approach. I completely agree with method number 2 here. Behaviour analysis is going to be our main weapon, as always. As we get further into the game, it will become even easier to compare the behaviour of mafia from day1 and 2 when they most likely don't know each other to how they are acting on the next days (3+) which they most likely figured it out.
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On April 26 2011 01:59 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:51 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2.
I don't see any reason whatsoever to limit ourselves in our scumhunting methods. I sure that there are some players here that have skills in doing both. I would encourage everyone to do both 1 AND 2, at least in some form. There's no way to predict what form breadcrumbing will take, so let's not force analysis through a top down approach.
I completely agree with method number 2 here. Behaviour analysis is going to be our main weapon, as always. As we get further into the game, it will become even easier to compare the behaviour of mafia from day1 and 2 when they most likely don't know each other to how they are acting on the next days (3+) which they most likely figured it out.
edit by way of double post: Sorry all, the bolded part is what I typed in the previous message, should have previewed it....
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On April 26 2011 00:51 Ace wrote: That will become clear soon, I'm just waiting for more lists.
Rean, why, Kenpachi, Zorkmid, Vain, darmousseh, and GGQ still have to post their lists.
Ok, read through the whole thread, no idea what list it is that I have to post...
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On April 26 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:51 Ace wrote: That will become clear soon, I'm just waiting for more lists.
Rean, why, Kenpachi, Zorkmid, Vain, darmousseh, and GGQ still have to post their lists. Ok, read through the whole thread, no idea what list it is that I have to post... Imagine for a second you are the cell leader, who would you message and what would you tell them in that message? Pick 3 people ( assume in this imaginary world that anyone you choose to message is automatically a member of the mafia) .
I think I can guess as to why Ace wants this, but we'll see, just play along with and post it.
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It is possible for scum to kill scum at night.
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On April 26 2011 02:39 iGrok wrote: It is possible for scum to kill scum at night. That just makes me believe scum are going to hunker down and hide for a day or two.
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On April 26 2011 02:16 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote:On April 26 2011 00:51 Ace wrote: That will become clear soon, I'm just waiting for more lists.
Rean, why, Kenpachi, Zorkmid, Vain, darmousseh, and GGQ still have to post their lists. Ok, read through the whole thread, no idea what list it is that I have to post... Imagine for a second you are the cell leader, who would you message and what would you tell them in that message? Pick 3 people ( assume in this imaginary world that anyone you choose to message is automatically a member of the mafia) . I think I can guess as to why Ace wants this, but we'll see, just play along with and post it.
Ok, my list would be Ace, tnkted, GMarshal. Why? Because i've all seen this names before one way or another in the mafia forums. They have some experience playing it so if i give out the information to them would be the best choice. The post would be something like: Mafia codeword:very. Even pages
The codeword could be something else i guess. but it boils down to that.
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a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done.
At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him.
##Vote: Jackal58
b) Depending on the exact meaning of
On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost".
scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable.
c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts.
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Hey guys - sorry i'm so late I didn't even realise I was in this until recently.
I quickly caught up - posting clues as to what you would message your mafia buddies? Really? Who thought that was a good idea?
Is it not terribly obvious that any halfway decent mafia would create a breadcrumbing strategy that totally avoids suspicion? Thinking we can catch it is unlikely and not useful. Behavioral analysis is all that is gonna help us here.
Tnkted I really need some kind of info as to why you did what you did earlier today? I'm reading it either as a green who didnt want to die so claimed a PR or a red with the amazing tactic of 'if i'm a REALLY obvious mafia no one will vote me...'
Anywho I feel I have very little to go on right now. Others who have yet to post I hope do so. I will be more active from now on!
As a last act: ##Vote Jackal58 This is not due to any hunting or anything - i just thought i'd mindlessly tunnel him until i have something better to do
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On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal"
Glad you could join us.
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If sandroba is the Cell Leader though then he also doesn't have to tell anyone either
Discussion has centered on the setup but a few of us are trying to push some agendas here. There is much more going on here than you think. Once everyone finishes posting their lists I'll explain why I asked for them.
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On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us.
What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part.
And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to...
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On April 25 2011 22:30 Ace wrote: Look at the player list. Let's pretend you were the Cell Leader for a second. What 3 players on the list would you send a message to and what would it be? (assume everyone is Scum for a second so you can just pick anyone)
I'm not really sure what the point is of picking three players or even telling you what my strategy as a cell leader would be...but let's play the game!
1. Ace - Make friends of Violence, Joy
2. Jackal58- Make friends of Violence, Avarice
3. Vain- Make friends of Avarice, Joy
Basically something to try and inform the agents of who their pals are. I'm not sure if my example messages would be "lost" or not.
The more I think about it though, the only reason to inform red agents of who the other red agents are would be so that they aren't nominated, in fact knowledge of all reds may even be more easily detectable by town. I think that the odds of ALL red agents being nominated in any given night is pretty damned small.
I guess that another strategy the CL could use would be to send out suggestions on lynch voting one by one, night by night in an attempt to lynch greens and reds.
I guess that these are the things that I'm going to be looking out for, in addition to breadcrumbing.
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On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader?
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On April 26 2011 04:57 Zorkmid wrote:
I guess that another strategy the CL could use would be to send out suggestions on lynch voting one by one, night by night in an attempt to lynch greens and reds.
EBWOP: I guess that another strategy the CL could use would be to send out suggestions on lynch voting one by one, night by night in an attempt to lynch greens and BLUES.
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On April 26 2011 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader?
Jackal, this is the post I am referring to:
On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing.
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
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On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader? Jackal, this is the post I am referring to: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
I don't really fervently disagree with FoSing him for it, I made my post which technically reveals things that agents and cell leader can do, but I did so after thinking about it for 5 minutes. I think that Sandroba is acting at least as anti-town as Jackal58 for failing to point out situation for the town to be vigilant of.
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United States22154 Posts
God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet?
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On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town.
anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion.
Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town.
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##VOTE Mr. Wiggles
I'm interested in your answer to GM's question.
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On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader? Jackal, this is the post I am referring to: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion. I was merely asking him to refrain from making posts that he did not feel he was able to discuss. Much like tnkted's semi claim last night. If you can't discuss it don't allude to it. If you have to put forth something and need to hold back some details fine. At least explain that in your original post. But don't say I know all the answers but I'm not telling.
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On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet?
How does revealing this help town?
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United States22154 Posts
On April 26 2011 05:59 Tackster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? How does revealing this help town?
We now know we have to work on the assumption that the mafia will have all their names by day 3. I think thats a pretty relevant piece of knowledge for us to have, no?
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On April 26 2011 06:05 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:59 Tackster wrote:On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? How does revealing this help town? We now know we have to work on the assumption that the mafia will have all their names by day 3. I think thats a pretty relevant piece of knowledge for us to have, no? It is very relevant. If it is indeed possible the biggest scum tells I think we'll see is a change in posting frequencies. I would suggest every body keep track of how many posts per day each player is making. If there is a marked increase by some of them after 2 or 3 days it is very likely they are scum.
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That doesn't mean anything. Posting frequency is just as much affected by what's being posted by other players and if people are directly asking you questions. That's a waste of time.
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On April 26 2011 05:31 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:On April 26 2011 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader? Jackal, this is the post I am referring to: On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion. I don't really fervently disagree with FoSing him for it, I made my post which technically reveals things that agents and cell leader can do, but I did so after thinking about it for 5 minutes. I think that Sandroba is acting at least as anti-town as Jackal58 for failing to point out situation for the town to be vigilant of.
Sandroba did point out the danger. Basically, it went like this:
Sandroba: I can think of a method for scum to communicate all teammates in one PM. Watch out. Ace, Gmarshal, Jackal: What is it? Sandroba: Don't want to say because it might help scum. Ace, GMarshal (eventually): ok Jackal: FoS
On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town.
I guess I misused the word "anti-town". My point is that Jackal FoSing him serves a mafia purpose: if Jackal was town there's no incentive for him to know it, given that it can't be looked out for in the thread. The only reason Jackal would want to know is if he a scum or cell leader looking for effective PMing strategies. I think it is pretty clear that there is no benefit to town knowing the information and there is benefit for mafia, so the FoS can't be justified in terms of creating discussion.
Anyway, I think everyone gets where I am coming from so I'll let the discussion move on. But my vote stays on Jackal unless someone can come up with a better lynch (why are people voting Mr. Wiggles?).
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On April 26 2011 06:12 Ace wrote: That doesn't mean anything. Posting frequency is just as much affected by what's being posted by other players and if people are directly asking you questions. That's a waste of time. I think if you are scum in this set up you are forced into hiding until you know who is on your team. I am town. I have nothing to hide from town. My biggest let down would be to become a mislynch for town. Lynches are the only means we have to win. Scum will target pro town at night. I have no control over that. If I get shot that just means scum thought I was doing a good job. Scum can't afford to post much. If they attempt to appear too much like town they run the risk of being killed by their own teammates at night. They do not yet possess the knowledge to bandwagon lynches so they are on their own in that respect. Not to mention running the risk of lynching their own. Or slipping up and getting lynched themselves. I really think activity levels will tell a story when this game is over. Just my opinion.
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On April 26 2011 06:18 why wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:31 Zorkmid wrote:On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:On April 26 2011 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader? Jackal, this is the post I am referring to: On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion. I don't really fervently disagree with FoSing him for it, I made my post which technically reveals things that agents and cell leader can do, but I did so after thinking about it for 5 minutes. I think that Sandroba is acting at least as anti-town as Jackal58 for failing to point out situation for the town to be vigilant of. Sandroba did point out the danger. Basically, it went like this: Sandroba: I can think of a method for scum to communicate all teammates in one PM. Watch out. Ace, Gmarshal, Jackal: What is it? Sandroba: Don't want to say because it might help scum. Ace, GMarshal (eventually): ok Jackal: FoS Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. I guess I misused the word "anti-town". My point is that Jackal FoSing him serves a mafia purpose: if Jackal was town there's no incentive for him to know it, given that it can't be looked out for in the thread. The only reason Jackal would want to know is if he a scum or cell leader looking for effective PMing strategies. I think it is pretty clear that there is no benefit to town knowing the information and there is benefit for mafia, so the FoS can't be justified in terms of creating discussion. Anyway, I think everyone gets where I am coming from so I'll let the discussion move on. But my vote stays on Jackal unless someone can come up with a better lynch (why are people voting Mr. Wiggles?). If that's your idea of the way I FoS somebody you haven't been paying attention. I hit 'em with a bag of rocks and don't stop.
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On April 25 2011 14:32 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how. eh how? The point of bread crumbs is to prove something before it happens via hidden clues. So how in the world is that going to help us find the Cell Leader?
I'm just thinking we can look for things that are people trying to direct mafia. We can assume that the GF is going to find a way to make himself known to his agents. This is why stuff like:
On April 25 2011 15:04 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight! Vain, I hope you aren't a dt because that is the most obvious blue tell ever in my opinion.
Looks somewhat scummy to me because of:
On April 25 2011 11:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well.
I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names.
Say Darm is scum, this could be him posting a potential hit target for the other cell members, in saying who he thinks is blue. As a general rule, I don't think people should point out who they think is blue or not. If they do an analysis, and figure someone is blue, they can just as easily call them town to protect them from sniping.
On April 26 2011 00:08 GMarshal wrote: Also I suppose its time I started generating discussion.
##Unvote ##Vote: Mr.Wiggles
do you know why I'm voting for you Mr.Wiggles?
Well, pressure doesn't work very well when the person isn't around to see it. :p
I think you're voting for me because I made a couple posts, went to bed, and have been at school until just recently, so it looks like I'm lurking/inactive. This isn't really the case, I'm reading the thread, just a lot of my reactions and ideas will be delayed and concentrated in a few posts instead of all over until two days from now. That, or you think one of my ideas is scummy, but I just pointed out what I mean by leading the cell and breadcrumbs if that's the one you're worried about.
As for breadcrumbs, you can look for people posting odd things, pictures, rhymes, ciphers, etc. Changing their signature and/or profile, writing things with the first words of every sentence or every line, stuff like that. It might be clever for scum to try, but I'm not going to obsess over it. I'm just saying that if there's something super apparent, it could easily be a mafia breadcrumb.
Now, to answer Ace. My three picks (with reasoning and follow-up) would go:
1. Ace. He's an experienced player and has a reputation as a good analyzer/arguer. 2. GMarshal. I have experience playing games with him, and think he's a good all-around player. 3. Jackal58. He tunnels a lot, and is a very aggressive poster. It would be good to get him in the know so I could use that to my advantage, and to avoid friendly fire.
Message: "Follow PI Bear, Profile" 19 characters, 4 words. All they'd have to do is look into my profile, and see the picture I have there right now, as well as the first joke sentence underneath, "Hi, I'm Mr. Wiggles the Detective Bear! No matter the type of grisly discovery, I'll always be first on the scene! I've barely been stumped in my entire career!". This would easily alert them to my identity.
The next thing I would do, is at some point, either post a scumlist that contains all of the sleeper agents, +/-1, or a scumlist that contains none of them +/-1. I would be sure not to provide much reasoning, and play down it's importance, so that no one would take it too seriously. I'd then hope the one's I've contacted would be smart enough to figure out that if they're on it, others are, or if they're not on it, no one else is, as they know I'm the Cell Leader, and must be up to something.
Follow up messages would be: "PI Bear, Profile, List (or else Not List)" to notify everyone within the shortest amount of time of who I am, and to look at the list, or not at the list.
As for activity:
We have to keep in mind that certain events in-thread will change activity levels, as well as real-life constraints. For example, I'm not going to have a ton of posts for the next 48 hours, because of my 3 exams coming up. So, in your system (Jackal), I'd look very suspicious, because following that time-line, I'd start to be active right as Day 2 begins, meaning I must have been contacted if I were an Agent. As well, as soon as people begin debating things more, and information becomes revealed, there's probably going to be a lot more posting. I think a good way to counter-act this is just the old-fashioned way, by looking at who's pushing plans that have the most benefit to the agents/leader, and who's arguing against plans that would harm them. However, I still feel that there's going to be at least some agents among any lurkers in the game, but there will still be some among the most active players, just as normal. I don't think activity is the greatest indicator of scumminess, but rather behaviour.
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United States22154 Posts
Good, wiggles, I like your response to pressure!
Onto someone else who I want to post.
Hi Eiii! Its nice to see you again. I find your lack of posts... disturbing.
Time to give you a motivational push I think.
##Unvote ##Vote: Wiggles
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United States22154 Posts
oh and happy birthday too!
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United States22154 Posts
wow, fail
##Unvote: Mr.WIggles ##Vote: Eiii
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On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? It is doable in 5 words..... Regardless of how many members are on the team.....
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Well, unless there is 7+ members. Which I doubt.
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Oh, and I can think of a way of letting them know who the GF at the same time.....
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On April 26 2011 07:45 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? It is doable in 5 words..... Regardless of how many members are on the team.....
Also, keep in mind there's a 20 character limit, that's why I'm curious as to how you would let them know the entirety of the team in one message. Don't tell me though, in case the GF doesn't know either. :p
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On April 26 2011 07:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 07:45 Impervious wrote:On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? It is doable in 5 words..... Regardless of how many members are on the team..... Also, keep in mind there's a 20 character limit, that's why I'm curious as to how you would let them know the entirety of the team in one message. Don't tell me though, in case the GF doesn't know either. :p Ask me in 3 days. I have a general method for it, so it'll be pretty difficult to catch onto it, even if the cell leader is doing it.....
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I thought pretty hard about how I'd play each of the positions before the game actually started.....
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Happy birthday Mr. Wiggles.
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Happy Birthday Wiggles.
Impervious can you list your 3 players?
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oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much?
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On April 26 2011 08:06 Ace wrote: Happy Birthday Wiggles.
Impervious can you list your 3 players? I did.
On April 25 2011 22:46 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:39 GMarshal wrote: I like that question, I'll take the first shot at answering it.
Now, I'm assuming one person is receiving the message.
1.) Ace- "I'm the pardoner from XXXVIII": with a veteran player like Ace I would be trying to get as much information to him as possible, information is power and even with only a little bit of it I'm sure he could get stuff done
2.) Mr. Wiggles - " mafia will post 'serial killer' " or some other breadcrumb that would allow me to reveal myself to him and then the rest of the team. I might think of a more clever breadcrumb than that, and if it were clever enough I might use it for ace instead.
3.) why- same as for wiggles, as a veteran player both of them are people I could count on to work it into their regular posts without worrying too much about them messing up. Nothing against you, but I haven't played or checked out a game where why has played. I would have put you in the 3rd spot.
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On April 26 2011 08:14 Kenpachi wrote: oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much? It's not funny, its smart play by them.
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On April 26 2011 08:14 Kenpachi wrote: oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much? ???
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On April 26 2011 08:19 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:14 Kenpachi wrote: oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much? It's not funny, its smart play by them. You understood that???
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I don't agree with the FoF on Jackl58, as for me what he did was a null tell and if it was pushing mafia objectives it was too damn obvious and I think mafia would be more carefull than that. My current FoS is darmomusseh for reasons I stated before and Zorkmid: He was very agressive on his last game as town and has pretty much only posted contentless/redundat/parroting posts so far. The only pressure he has made was bandwagoning wiggles for no apparent reason. ##unvote As much as I'm still suspicious of vain, he played the same way last game when he was blue, so I'm not sure I would be lynching scum if I pushed for his lynch. ##Vote: Zorkmid
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No one has been under any pressure because there aren't enough people agreeing on anything to press a suspect. One person can't apply pressure with no information. Where do you guys get this stuff from? :/
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I don't see any real info yet either.....
Btw, in case you guys are watching how people behave/how often they post - I have an exam on Wednesday, and I'm in the middle of moving from one place to another, so my posting may be erratic, without actually being caused by any game changing information that I may come across.....
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Ace, you're displaying a serious case of what I like to call 'vet syndrome': you criticise all the plans and ideas made by the 'newbs' and fail to suggest any better ideas or plans, other than your vague promise of a plan that'll make sense sometime in the future. I'll play your game for now, please make it worthwhile. I hope to see more than just criticism out of you this game
Honestly, I'm not even sure what this exercise is for. Looking at the playerlist and picking out three names is nothing like being the GF and picking out one name from your scum team. But oh well.
Ace, why, and wiggles or GMarshal. For the message, I'd try to think of one keyword that could be associated with each player on the scum team, and include those keywords in the message, hoping the agent would be clever enough to figure out that those are his teammates. That might be too close to giving the names, but I don't know, it's my first idea.
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What criticisms? Post proof with merit please.
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First post!
On April 25 2011 23:04 Ace wrote: 1.) Eiii
If I recall I played in a Mafia game with him a long time ago. I think he's the only one here that was around more than 2 years ago? If so I could send him a message and it would be clearly obvious it was from me.
I think you have me confused with someone else-- my first game played was getting subbed into salem, and I've never actually been in a game with you (though I have played one and a half games you hosted).
I really don't have anything to say yet, so I might as well address ace's three-scumbuddies question but I don't know how to approach it! People seem to be picking who they'd want as sleepers based on how easy it would be for them to communicate in a five-word message who they were. If that's the case then I can just send 'XXXVIII I'm winning assassin' (and then an extra word of encouragement-- maybe 'victory!' or 'yeah!') or something and be totally set no matter who I send it too. If the point is to list players who we think would be the strongest to have on a team as scum then we might as well just compile a list of vets instead (and in that case I REALLY don't get what this is about).
Also:On April 26 2011 00:51 Ace wrote: That will become clear soon, I'm just waiting for more lists.
Rean, why, Kenpachi, Zorkmid, Vain, darmousseh, and GGQ still have to post their lists. :C
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Apparently everybody has gone to sleep.
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On April 26 2011 21:09 Jackal58 wrote: Apparently everybody has gone to sleep. I was thinking the same thing. I went to sleep, came back, and there were 0 new posts..... Granted I only got 6 hrs of sleep, but yea.....
Of course, I didn't have anything to contribute, and I still don't really, so I wasn't planning on posting anything.....
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Well it's too late to keep complaining but basically if we didn't keep talking about ways mafia could communicate with each other it would be much more obvious when they actually did it. All we're doing now is allowing them to slip in ways of communicatin day 1.
Anyways - HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR WIGGLES!!!!
I'm just up - i'll check in later when there's more information?
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We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these. That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him. Let's start with this one.
On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote: I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.
I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok... So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role:
On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. And then continued again:
On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts. He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it.
Now this post:
On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells? I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do?
And lastly
On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get.
I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted. Sorry twinkles.
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United States22154 Posts
Jackal, I like your accusation, however I would leave tnkted alone for now as if he has a weird role as he claims the mafia is much more likely to hit him, I would much, much rather hit someone who isn't posting or is lurking, trying to avoid attention. I propose Eiii who has yet to contribute anything at all. To me, in this setting its a huge tell as it reeks of scum waiting to be contacted by the cell leader. I would be happy to hit any of the other lurkers though, e.g. Kenpachi.
Also I am getting a weird vibe from Mr.Wiggles
taking a quick look at his posts
On April 25 2011 11:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well.
I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names.
I think this is making an obvious post in alot of words, I'm not sure its FoS worthy, as alot of this type of posting is going on, but it set off my radar
On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how.
interestingly enough its a repetition of a previous post, it says the evident "scum hunting is how we find scum" but still encourages us to look for breadcrumbs. I like the comment on the GF but the rest of the post seems like filler trying to look like something is being added, again, not enough to make me yell "scum" but its making my gut uncomfortable, this is the real reason I put a pressure vote on wiggles, rather than inactive he seemed to me to be lurking
On April 26 2011 07:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 14:32 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how. eh how? The point of bread crumbs is to prove something before it happens via hidden clues. So how in the world is that going to help us find the Cell Leader? I'm just thinking we can look for things that are people trying to direct mafia. We can assume that the GF is going to find a way to make himself known to his agents. This is why stuff like: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 15:04 darmousseh wrote:On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight! Vain, I hope you aren't a dt because that is the most obvious blue tell ever in my opinion. Looks somewhat scummy to me because of: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well.
I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names. Say Darm is scum, this could be him posting a potential hit target for the other cell members, in saying who he thinks is blue. As a general rule, I don't think people should point out who they think is blue or not. If they do an analysis, and figure someone is blue, they can just as easily call them town to protect them from sniping. I *really* like this point, I though it was evident as well, but it merits pointing out and wiggles gets a town point from me for making this point, as it warrants saying, on the other hand though it makes it obvious for any scum that missed it, which was my reason for leaving it there and hoping it stayed buried.Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:08 GMarshal wrote: Also I suppose its time I started generating discussion.
##Unvote ##Vote: Mr.Wiggles
do you know why I'm voting for you Mr.Wiggles? Well, pressure doesn't work very well when the person isn't around to see it. :p I think you're voting for me because I made a couple posts, went to bed, and have been at school until just recently, so it looks like I'm lurking/inactive. This isn't really the case, I'm reading the thread, just a lot of my reactions and ideas will be delayed and concentrated in a few posts instead of all over until two days from now. That, or you think one of my ideas is scummy, but I just pointed out what I mean by leading the cell and breadcrumbs if that's the one you're worried about. This is actually the reaction I would expect from a town player, if wiggles were scum I would expect a more panicked reaction, its not a very solid tell but it partially assuages the churning in my stomach that his earlier posts caused As for breadcrumbs, you can look for people posting odd things, pictures, rhymes, ciphers, etc. Changing their signature and/or profile, writing things with the first words of every sentence or every line, stuff like that. It might be clever for scum to try, but I'm not going to obsess over it. I'm just saying that if there's something super apparent, it could easily be a mafia breadcrumb. I think this paragraph is redundant, no mafia is going to outright post a cypher or a easy breadcrumb like the first word of every sentence/line (and yes, I am checking for that) Now, to answer Ace. My three picks (with reasoning and follow-up) would go: 1. Ace. He's an experienced player and has a reputation as a good analyzer/arguer. 2. GMarshal. I have experience playing games with him, and think he's a good all-around player. 3. Jackal58. He tunnels a lot, and is a very aggressive poster. It would be good to get him in the know so I could use that to my advantage, and to avoid friendly fire. Message: "Follow PI Bear, Profile" 19 characters, 4 words. All they'd have to do is look into my profile, and see the picture I have there right now, as well as the first joke sentence underneath, "Hi, I'm Mr. Wiggles the Detective Bear! No matter the type of grisly discovery, I'll always be first on the scene! I've barely been stumped in my entire career!". This would easily alert them to my identity. This part triggers my gut once again, as its thought out way in depth, it also spells out what a non-obvious message means, which in my mind is explaining it to any of his scumbuddies to whom he might have sent the message. I'm not willing to FoS based on that but it makes me more uneasy
The next thing I would do, is at some point, either post a scumlist that contains all of the sleeper agents, +/-1, or a scumlist that contains none of them +/-1. I would be sure not to provide much reasoning, and play down it's importance, so that no one would take it too seriously. I'd then hope the one's I've contacted would be smart enough to figure out that if they're on it, others are, or if they're not on it, no one else is, as they know I'm the Cell Leader, and must be up to something. Again detailing his plan in detail and also including how he is going to be communicating with his buddies if he is scum. If wiggles ever posts a scumlist I'd be interested to see the alignment of some of its members, as its possible wiggles has just detailed his plan so his buddies can see it. Again, it could be that wiggles has thought this out in depth, which is good, or it could be he is scum. Its not a tell for me either way, but it does make me decidedly uneasy Follow up messages would be: "PI Bear, Profile, List (or else Not List)" to notify everyone within the shortest amount of time of who I am, and to look at the list, or not at the list.
Its a long post, so my comments in bold inside the quote
Verdict: Keep your eyes peeled for wiggles, something about him seems off to me. FoS
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I don't really like the FoS on wiggles. For me it's a bunch of null tells and some town tells. However I whole heathedly agree on lynching the lurkers/inactives/people posting no content. I feel like that's the optimal play for mafia in this setup early on, so it's a high chance o hitting mafia if we focus on those. I would like to propose we lynch zorkmid.
On April 23 2011 00:41 Zorkmid wrote: Seem to be posting too little for someone so eager for this game to start. He is behaving very differently from the other game he was town, where he was way more active and way more agressive and never jumped on the defense of anybody.
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I like Gmarshal's post about wiggles, but I would take it farther since his posts seem suspect. Obviously I won't believe his list for sleeper agents, but I can take a guess that mr wiggles is probably scum.
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
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Sandroba, I think you're town. You thought the same thing about me last game too and you were town then.
By the way, you're dead wrong again.
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United States22154 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:01 Zorkmid wrote: Sandroba, I think you're town. You thought the same thing about me last game too and you were town then.
By the way, you're dead wrong again.
Weigh in then please, who do you think is mafia? Why? Lynch is in less than 10 hours, who would you like to see dead?
While I'm throwing questions around, if you were a DT who would you check tonight? If you were a busdriver what two people would you swap? why?
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What the hell? Can you at least make your actve lurking less obvious? I never though you were mafia last game. This one I do.
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On April 27 2011 00:26 GMarshal wrote:Jackal, I like your accusation, however I would leave tnkted alone for now as if he has a weird role as he claims the mafia is much more likely to hit him, I would much, much rather hit someone who isn't posting or is lurking, trying to avoid attention. I propose Eiii who has yet to contribute anything at all. To me, in this setting its a huge tell as it reeks of scum waiting to be contacted by the cell leader. I would be happy to hit any of the other lurkers though, e.g. Kenpachi. Also I am getting a weird vibe from Mr.Wiggles taking a quick look at his posts + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 11:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well.
I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names. I think this is making an obvious post in alot of words, I'm not sure its FoS worthy, as alot of this type of posting is going on, but it set off my radar On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how. interestingly enough its a repetition of a previous post, it says the evident "scum hunting is how we find scum" but still encourages us to look for breadcrumbs. I like the comment on the GF but the rest of the post seems like filler trying to look like something is being added, again, not enough to make me yell "scum" but its making my gut uncomfortable, this is the real reason I put a pressure vote on wiggles, rather than inactive he seemed to me to be lurking On April 26 2011 07:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 14:32 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how. eh how? The point of bread crumbs is to prove something before it happens via hidden clues. So how in the world is that going to help us find the Cell Leader? I'm just thinking we can look for things that are people trying to direct mafia. We can assume that the GF is going to find a way to make himself known to his agents. This is why stuff like: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 15:04 darmousseh wrote:On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight! Vain, I hope you aren't a dt because that is the most obvious blue tell ever in my opinion. Looks somewhat scummy to me because of: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well.
I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names. Say Darm is scum, this could be him posting a potential hit target for the other cell members, in saying who he thinks is blue. As a general rule, I don't think people should point out who they think is blue or not. If they do an analysis, and figure someone is blue, they can just as easily call them town to protect them from sniping. I *really* like this point, I though it was evident as well, but it merits pointing out and wiggles gets a town point from me for making this point, as it warrants saying, on the other hand though it makes it obvious for any scum that missed it, which was my reason for leaving it there and hoping it stayed buried.Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:08 GMarshal wrote: Also I suppose its time I started generating discussion.
##Unvote ##Vote: Mr.Wiggles
do you know why I'm voting for you Mr.Wiggles? Well, pressure doesn't work very well when the person isn't around to see it. :p I think you're voting for me because I made a couple posts, went to bed, and have been at school until just recently, so it looks like I'm lurking/inactive. This isn't really the case, I'm reading the thread, just a lot of my reactions and ideas will be delayed and concentrated in a few posts instead of all over until two days from now. That, or you think one of my ideas is scummy, but I just pointed out what I mean by leading the cell and breadcrumbs if that's the one you're worried about. This is actually the reaction I would expect from a town player, if wiggles were scum I would expect a more panicked reaction, its not a very solid tell but it partially assuages the churning in my stomach that his earlier posts caused As for breadcrumbs, you can look for people posting odd things, pictures, rhymes, ciphers, etc. Changing their signature and/or profile, writing things with the first words of every sentence or every line, stuff like that. It might be clever for scum to try, but I'm not going to obsess over it. I'm just saying that if there's something super apparent, it could easily be a mafia breadcrumb. I think this paragraph is redundant, no mafia is going to outright post a cypher or a easy breadcrumb like the first word of every sentence/line (and yes, I am checking for that) Now, to answer Ace. My three picks (with reasoning and follow-up) would go: 1. Ace. He's an experienced player and has a reputation as a good analyzer/arguer. 2. GMarshal. I have experience playing games with him, and think he's a good all-around player. 3. Jackal58. He tunnels a lot, and is a very aggressive poster. It would be good to get him in the know so I could use that to my advantage, and to avoid friendly fire. Message: "Follow PI Bear, Profile" 19 characters, 4 words. All they'd have to do is look into my profile, and see the picture I have there right now, as well as the first joke sentence underneath, "Hi, I'm Mr. Wiggles the Detective Bear! No matter the type of grisly discovery, I'll always be first on the scene! I've barely been stumped in my entire career!". This would easily alert them to my identity. This part triggers my gut once again, as its thought out way in depth, it also spells out what a non-obvious message means, which in my mind is explaining it to any of his scumbuddies to whom he might have sent the message. I'm not willing to FoS based on that but it makes me more uneasy
The next thing I would do, is at some point, either post a scumlist that contains all of the sleeper agents, +/-1, or a scumlist that contains none of them +/-1. I would be sure not to provide much reasoning, and play down it's importance, so that no one would take it too seriously. I'd then hope the one's I've contacted would be smart enough to figure out that if they're on it, others are, or if they're not on it, no one else is, as they know I'm the Cell Leader, and must be up to something. Again detailing his plan in detail and also including how he is going to be communicating with his buddies if he is scum. If wiggles ever posts a scumlist I'd be interested to see the alignment of some of its members, as its possible wiggles has just detailed his plan so his buddies can see it. Again, it could be that wiggles has thought this out in depth, which is good, or it could be he is scum. Its not a tell for me either way, but it does make me decidedly uneasy Follow up messages would be: "PI Bear, Profile, List (or else Not List)" to notify everyone within the shortest amount of time of who I am, and to look at the list, or not at the list. Its a long post, so my comments in bold inside the quote Verdict: Keep your eyes peeled for wiggles, something about him seems off to me. FoS
A couple comments on that:
Any scum reading the thread is going to have noticed what Darmo said, and that's why I pointed it out. I'd rather rely on the assumption my opponents are going to notice things rather than the assumption they'll just skim past stuff, so that's why I pointed it out as scummy instead of letting it slide, and asked for it to not happen again. Have a good reason if you need to call someone Blue.
Also, this is WIFOM, but I wouldn't have posted that whole explanation if I were actually the Cell Leader. People would be smart enough to figure out Private Investigator Bear, Profile without an explanation. As well, Ace didn't ask for anything more, but I thought it might help trying to figure out what CL would do. The whole point of the list, would be people would dismiss it, because it wouldn't have any analysis behind it, but the Cell members would be able to figure it out that that's the member list if they knew I were leader. By posting this, now people can't just make stand-alone scum lists like that, because people have been made aware of this possibility, and so they will be scrutinized. i.e. anyone making a "scum-list" that has nothing but names is going to be looked at pretty closely, in case they're doing what I outlined.
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Analysis of Tkdted's "Strange Role" Claim:
To me, it wouldn't be a big deal that Tkdted made his strange role claim, IF he is an experienced player (ANd can someone address that question?)
1. Sleeper Cell members might think that he too is sleeper cell, I don't know how many would vote for him so he may not be in any danger.
2. Townies may think that he's got some sort of blue, or green role, so he's safe from an early lynch.
Here's the question I'd like to pose though...
Is Tkdted a good enough player that he realized the above from the start?? If he didn't what could it mean? a) feels safe in his role from reds, blues, both? b) wants to establish himself as a powerful townie? c) maybe I'm playing too much sc2 mafia custom, but he's trying to get lynched?
Thoughts?
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EBWOP: Another thought Maybe Tkdted is seeking the protection of a possible medic role?
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On April 27 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote: EBWOP: Another thought Maybe Tkdted is seeking the protection of a possible medic role?
It's pretty obvious what he is, but apparently calling out people when they make themselves too obvious to the mafia is frowned upon. People need to stop making so many tells, seriously.
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On April 27 2011 01:04 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:01 Zorkmid wrote: Sandroba, I think you're town. You thought the same thing about me last game too and you were town then.
By the way, you're dead wrong again. Weigh in then please, who do you think is mafia? Why? Lynch is in less than 10 hours, who would you like to see dead? While I'm throwing questions around, if you were a DT who would you check tonight? If you were a busdriver what two people would you swap? why?
If I had to guess right now who is mafia I'd say that Tkdted is the most likely. The problem is that I'm afraid that he's equally likely to be a helpful role.
Beyond him, I'd say that Mr. Wiggles is a good candidate for no other reason of inactivity.
I'm also suspicious of Sandroba, who tried to cast me as mafia in the "surprising normal game I", I feel like he is acting much like he was last game, so maybe he's changing things up on purpose.
If I were a DT, a good idea would be to check Tkdted because of his strange claim, maybe sandroba. If I was stuck for someone to check, I'd pick someone with a low post count (Im not quite sure who that is right now, but I'd find that out)
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On April 27 2011 02:20 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote: EBWOP: Another thought Maybe Tkdted is seeking the protection of a possible medic role? It's pretty obvious what he is, but apparently calling out people when they make themselves too obvious to the mafia is frowned upon. People need to stop making so many tells, seriously.
Not obvious to me. I think that the only roles that qualify as "weird" by definition would be the ones unspecified in the OP.
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Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter.
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On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote: Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ????
I'd also like to know the point of your exercise.
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Ok, between this "secret plan", this recent slipup, and defending someone who is currently suspicious, is anyone else getting a weird vibe from Ace?
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On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote: Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ???? I'd also like to know the point of your exercise.
and where's the role claim or the hint of his role?
Thanks for playing.
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On April 27 2011 02:37 Impervious wrote: Ok, between this "secret plan", this recent slipup, and defending someone who is currently suspicious, is anyone else getting a weird vibe from Ace?
what is he suspicious of? Saying he might role claim? That isn't a suspicious action at all. You guys are looking for things that aren't there.
If someone says hey I have a pretty good role/strange role/interesting role and I might claim then show me how that is scummy behavior.
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On April 27 2011 02:38 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote: Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ???? I'd also like to know the point of your exercise. and where's the role claim or the hint of his role? Thanks for playing.
He basically claims that he isn't ANY of the listed roles IMO.
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On April 27 2011 02:42 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:38 Ace wrote:On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote: Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ???? I'd also like to know the point of your exercise. and where's the role claim or the hint of his role? Thanks for playing. He basically claims that he isn't ANY of the listed roles IMO.
Which means he's Blue/Red, doesn't say anything definitive about his alignment.
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On April 27 2011 02:23 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:20 darmousseh wrote:On April 27 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote: EBWOP: Another thought Maybe Tkdted is seeking the protection of a possible medic role? It's pretty obvious what he is, but apparently calling out people when they make themselves too obvious to the mafia is frowned upon. People need to stop making so many tells, seriously. Not obvious to me. I think that the only roles that qualify as "weird" by definition would be the ones unspecified in the OP.
It's not specified in the OP. Now can we please stop talking about this? I'll claim day2 if you people are seriously so freaked out.
And yes, zork, it should be extremely obvious what I am and why I'm acting this way. NO MORE CLUES.
You guys are spelling my name wrong btw, its TNK not TDK lol.
Now, as for my vote: it's Impervious
He's had almost nothing but one liners.
On April 26 2011 08:19 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:14 Kenpachi wrote: oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much? It's not funny, its smart play by them.
On April 26 2011 07:55 Impervious wrote: I thought pretty hard about how I'd play each of the positions before the game actually started.....
On April 26 2011 08:17 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:06 Ace wrote: Happy Birthday Wiggles.
Impervious can you list your 3 players? I did. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:46 Impervious wrote:On April 25 2011 22:39 GMarshal wrote: I like that question, I'll take the first shot at answering it.
Now, I'm assuming one person is receiving the message.
1.) Ace- "I'm the pardoner from XXXVIII": with a veteran player like Ace I would be trying to get as much information to him as possible, information is power and even with only a little bit of it I'm sure he could get stuff done
2.) Mr. Wiggles - " mafia will post 'serial killer' " or some other breadcrumb that would allow me to reveal myself to him and then the rest of the team. I might think of a more clever breadcrumb than that, and if it were clever enough I might use it for ace instead.
3.) why- same as for wiggles, as a veteran player both of them are people I could count on to work it into their regular posts without worrying too much about them messing up. Nothing against you, but I haven't played or checked out a game where why has played. I would have put you in the 3rd spot.
On April 26 2011 07:48 Impervious wrote: Oh, and I can think of a way of letting them know who the GF at the same time.....
On April 26 2011 07:45 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? It is doable in 5 words..... Regardless of how many members are on the team.....
Oneliners. Every time. Then he has this gem, reiterating an excuse already given by several people for inactivity:
On April 26 2011 09:33 Impervious wrote: I don't see any real info yet either.....
Btw, in case you guys are watching how people behave/how often they post - I have an exam on Wednesday, and I'm in the middle of moving from one place to another, so my posting may be erratic, without actually being caused by any game changing information that I may come across.....
Several other people had brought this excuse up already. Wiggles, for example. Trying to blend in?
Then we get an actual post of substance:
On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts? Now, I agree with not focusing on breadcrumbing this game, because its almost impossible for us to catch scum at it. But this post talks about doublechecking people. Now this isn't a scumtell in and of itself, but what is interesting is that he steals the entire content of his post from two other players:
First, Sandroba saying "talking breadcrumbs is a waste of time."
On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of.
Then vain suggesting doublechecks.
On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight!
Convinced? I am, at least enough for a day1 lynch.
#vote Impervious
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Jackal care to explain yourself when you quoted that post?
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On April 27 2011 02:40 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:37 Impervious wrote: Ok, between this "secret plan", this recent slipup, and defending someone who is currently suspicious, is anyone else getting a weird vibe from Ace? what is he suspicious of? Saying he might role claim? That isn't a suspicious action at all. You guys are looking for things that aren't there. If someone says hey I have a pretty good role/strange role/interesting role and I might claim then show me how that is scummy behavior. Well, unless we get some kind of confirmation that there are indeed roles not listed in the OP that are in play, his actions are definitely suspicious. Nobody in either of the two blue roles would even dream of bringing that much attention to themselves at this point in the game.
Also, I await the revealing of your plan.
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On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: This is a semi-closed setup. Some Roles and their abilities will be disclosed, however role counts will not be. There is at least one of every Roles below. There may be other Roles not listed.
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On April 27 2011 02:55 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:40 Ace wrote:On April 27 2011 02:37 Impervious wrote: Ok, between this "secret plan", this recent slipup, and defending someone who is currently suspicious, is anyone else getting a weird vibe from Ace? what is he suspicious of? Saying he might role claim? That isn't a suspicious action at all. You guys are looking for things that aren't there. If someone says hey I have a pretty good role/strange role/interesting role and I might claim then show me how that is scummy behavior. Well, unless we get some kind of confirmation that there are indeed roles not listed in the OP that are in play, his actions are definitely suspicious. Nobody in either of the two blue roles would even dream of bringing that much attention to themselves at this point in the game. Also, I await the revealing of your plan.
On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: [center]ROLES
This is a semi-closed setup. Some Roles and their abilities will be disclosed, however role counts will not be. There is at least one of every Roles below. There may be other Roles not listed.
The OP makes it quite clear that the possibility exists.
Still waiting on more people to post. Really need more activity before I reveal my plan.
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On April 27 2011 02:52 Ace wrote: Jackal care to explain yourself when you quoted that post? Explain myself for quoting what post?
Would you care to explain your Cell Leader exercise?
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Did you conveniently forget to read the post right above you?
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On April 27 2011 02:43 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:23 Zorkmid wrote:On April 27 2011 02:20 darmousseh wrote:On April 27 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote: EBWOP: Another thought Maybe Tkdted is seeking the protection of a possible medic role? It's pretty obvious what he is, but apparently calling out people when they make themselves too obvious to the mafia is frowned upon. People need to stop making so many tells, seriously. Not obvious to me. I think that the only roles that qualify as "weird" by definition would be the ones unspecified in the OP. It's not specified in the OP. Now can we please stop talking about this? I'll claim day2 if you people are seriously so freaked out. Yes, we're freaked out over it. Especially since I'm not aware of any non-listed roles at the moment. And that's not a good thing, because its also possible that the Reds have unlisted roles/abilities as well..... So I'd like to find out one way or another.And yes, zork, it should be extremely obvious what I am and why I'm acting this way. NO MORE CLUES. You guys are spelling my name wrong btw, its TNK not TDK lol. Now, as for my vote: it's ImperviousHe's had almost nothing but one liners. Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:19 Impervious wrote:On April 26 2011 08:14 Kenpachi wrote: oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much? It's not funny, its smart play by them. Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 07:55 Impervious wrote: I thought pretty hard about how I'd play each of the positions before the game actually started..... Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:17 Impervious wrote:On April 26 2011 08:06 Ace wrote: Happy Birthday Wiggles.
Impervious can you list your 3 players? I did. On April 25 2011 22:46 Impervious wrote:On April 25 2011 22:39 GMarshal wrote: I like that question, I'll take the first shot at answering it.
Now, I'm assuming one person is receiving the message.
1.) Ace- "I'm the pardoner from XXXVIII": with a veteran player like Ace I would be trying to get as much information to him as possible, information is power and even with only a little bit of it I'm sure he could get stuff done
2.) Mr. Wiggles - " mafia will post 'serial killer' " or some other breadcrumb that would allow me to reveal myself to him and then the rest of the team. I might think of a more clever breadcrumb than that, and if it were clever enough I might use it for ace instead.
3.) why- same as for wiggles, as a veteran player both of them are people I could count on to work it into their regular posts without worrying too much about them messing up. Nothing against you, but I haven't played or checked out a game where why has played. I would have put you in the 3rd spot. Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 07:48 Impervious wrote: Oh, and I can think of a way of letting them know who the GF at the same time..... Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 07:45 Impervious wrote:On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? It is doable in 5 words..... Regardless of how many members are on the team..... Oneliners. Every time. Then he has this gem, reiterating an excuse already given by several people for inactivity: Yes, because oneliners are definitely a scumtell.....Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 09:33 Impervious wrote: I don't see any real info yet either.....
Btw, in case you guys are watching how people behave/how often they post - I have an exam on Wednesday, and I'm in the middle of moving from one place to another, so my posting may be erratic, without actually being caused by any game changing information that I may come across..... Several other people had brought this excuse up already. Wiggles, for example. Trying to blend in? Isnt it better to claim this shit ahead of time, rather than claim it after the fact? Or would you rather discover my behavior changes after a couple of days, and then I claim both the move and the exams as excuses for it?
If it would have been better to claim it after the fact, then I guess I'll do that next time I play a game of Mafia.Then we get an actual post of substance: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts? Now, I agree with not focusing on breadcrumbing this game, because its almost impossible for us to catch scum at it. But this post talks about doublechecking people. Now this isn't a scumtell in and of itself, but what is interesting is that he steals the entire content of his post from two other players: I thought both were important things to do.
If we're going to try to outsmart the people with red roles, then we need to catch them before their plan (whatever it is) is fully formed..... By giving away the methods we'd expect them to use, they'll know what to avoid doing..... Frankly, it was really dumb to go so in-depth on that subject.
And making sure the DT knows what he should be doing is always going to be a good thing. I'm not sure if what you initially said was a major blunder, and you're simply trying to cover it up, or if you genuinely have a non-disclosed role. Part of me wants to actually lynch you tonight, to confirm it either way (seeing as you'll probably be a top target for the mafia). Of course, this could bite us in the ass if you really do have a useful role for the town. And I don't want to waste a check on you to find out either way.First, Sandroba saying "talking breadcrumbs is a waste of time." Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Then vain suggesting doublechecks. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight! Convinced? I am, at least enough for a day1 lynch. #vote Impervious If that's what it takes to convince you, we're going to have serious problems later on in the game.....
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On April 27 2011 03:01 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:55 Impervious wrote:On April 27 2011 02:40 Ace wrote:On April 27 2011 02:37 Impervious wrote: Ok, between this "secret plan", this recent slipup, and defending someone who is currently suspicious, is anyone else getting a weird vibe from Ace? what is he suspicious of? Saying he might role claim? That isn't a suspicious action at all. You guys are looking for things that aren't there. If someone says hey I have a pretty good role/strange role/interesting role and I might claim then show me how that is scummy behavior. Well, unless we get some kind of confirmation that there are indeed roles not listed in the OP that are in play, his actions are definitely suspicious. Nobody in either of the two blue roles would even dream of bringing that much attention to themselves at this point in the game. Also, I await the revealing of your plan. Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: [center]ROLES
This is a semi-closed setup. Some Roles and their abilities will be disclosed, however role counts will not be. There is at least one of every Roles below. There may be other Roles not listed.
The OP makes it quite clear that the possibility exists. Still waiting on more people to post. Really need more activity before I reveal my plan. And if he had one such role, I can't think of any role that would be worthwhile revealing so early in the game, unless it was immune to night kills.....
Drawing attention to yourself? Maybe. Actually wanting to reveal? Nope.
Also, how often to mafia games have 100% activity? There always seem to be a few who lurk a little too much.....
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Strategy to make the DTs waste checks on you perhaps?
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On April 27 2011 03:11 Ace wrote: Did you conveniently forget to read the post right above you? No I answered your question before I scrolled through the rest of the thread. Forgive me for being fallible. I answered your question with a question. Which quoted post were you talking about? Or are you being conveniently obtuse?
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And just to be clear I am not asking tnkted to role claim. I want to know why he felt compelled to bring it up pre game just to say "Let's just forget this" Wtf do people do that for?
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He's just trying to draw attention to himself. If he wanted to breadcrumb silently, he could.
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On April 27 2011 03:28 Jackal58 wrote: And just to be clear I am not asking tnkted to role claim. I want to know why he felt compelled to bring it up pre game just to say "Let's just forget this" Wtf do people do that for?
Well on that I somewhat agree. My only issue with him was the fact that he claimed it as a bread crumb when there is no such thing as a public bread crumb. If you guys have an issue with that it makes more sense imo than getting upset over a supposed role claim that didn't happen.
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On April 27 2011 03:17 Zorkmid wrote: Strategy to make the DTs waste checks on you perhaps? Not exactly a town friendly move, is it?
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Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you?
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United States22154 Posts
On April 27 2011 04:27 Ace wrote: Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you?
Can you substantiate why you feel that way? I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind why you think he is the most likely to be scum.
Oh, and Eiii and all the other lurkers, post more before I get annoyed
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On April 27 2011 04:27 Ace wrote: Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you? And what makes me scummy?
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I haven't created some super secret name game whose purpose can't be revealed. I haven't made semi claims and posts proclaiming I have a secret but I'm not telling. I have answered any questions asked of me. Except for you know the vague one you asked me and never clarified. I'm not lurking. What have I done that is scummy? Disagree with you?
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+ Show Spoiler [1st posts] +On April 26 2011 23:37 Jackal58 wrote:We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these. That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him. Let's start with this one. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote: I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.
I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok... So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. And then continued again: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts. He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it. Now this post: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells? I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do? And lastly Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get. I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted. Sorry twinkles.
First lets us realize that as of the first line of his post Jackal's insistence is that we should find our Day 1 lynch. My issue here is that tnkted's announcement of a strange role is being put out there as if it's scummy when it isn't. It's not anti-town, it's not scummy - it's just bad play. Now when I posted my list earlier about the 3 people who I'd contact I listed Jackal and my reasoning was that he doesn't suck. Which means I think more often than not he can recognize bad town play over scum play and imo this is an obvious case of it.
+ Show Spoiler [2nd posts] +On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote: Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ???? I'd also like to know the point of your exercise.
This was from the previous page when I asserted that tnkted never role claimed and Jackal quoted some of his posts that didn't show that he did. Pretty much this is either Scum behavior or Jackal mixing up tnkted's bad play with Scum play.
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On April 27 2011 04:40 Ace wrote:+ Show Spoiler [1st posts] +On April 26 2011 23:37 Jackal58 wrote:We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these. That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him. Let's start with this one. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote: I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.
I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok... So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. And then continued again: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts. He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it. Now this post: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells? I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do? And lastly Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get. I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted. Sorry twinkles. First lets us realize that as of the first line of his post Jackal's insistence is that we should find our Day 1 lynch. My issue here is that tnkted's announcement of a strange role is being put out there as if it's scummy when it isn't. It's not anti-town, it's not scummy - it's just bad play. Now when I posted my list earlier about the 3 people who I'd contact I listed Jackal and my reasoning was that he doesn't suck. Which means I think more often than not he can recognize bad town play over scum play and imo this is an obvious case of it. + Show Spoiler [2nd posts] +On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote: Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ???? I'd also like to know the point of your exercise. This was from the previous page when I asserted that tnkted never role claimed and Jackal quoted some of his posts that didn't show that he did. Pretty much this is either Scum behavior or Jackal mixing up tnkted's bad play with Scum play. Was not an insistence. You make it sound as though I was making demands. I put forth a suggestion. There was very little activity in the thread. I jump started it. I chose the most erratic seeming player (in my opinion) to look at. I freely admitted I suck at analysis and asked for the opinions of others. I got one opinion from GM and a rather odd post from you. You said tnkted never role claimed or hinted at one. Your words not mine. So I quoted 3 posts of his that absolutely hinted at a role claim. So I put forth some analysis admitting I'm not very good at it. Point out an error you made in your assertion of tnkted not even hinting at a role claim and I'm scum?
I've been trying really really hard to shake this reputation I have of being a tunneler. I'm trying really really hard to develop an ability to do analysis. All I have received for my efforts in my last game and this one is labeled scum on day one. If that's the way it's going to be fuck it I'll just tunnel people.
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United States22154 Posts
Sorry Ace, but I think your analysis is faulty, I don't see Jackal as being scum atm. It could be my relative inexperience, or it might just be that we disagree on that, but I think that at the moment jackal is a terrible lynch, at the very least he is being vocal, which is much, much more than what we can say for many of the players in this thread.
I know I've said this many times before, but I think our best call today is to lynch a lurker, with a non-unifed mafia it also means they have no way of knowing if they are lynching a buddy, which makes it much less likely to be misdirected than the usual attempts at day 1 inactive lynches.
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GM that makes a lot of sense. Who do you sugest to lynch? What's your opinion on zorkmid?
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United States22154 Posts
My lynch suggestions:
Eiii Kenpachi GGQ
all three of these are actively lurking and not contributing or trying to scumhunt, this is where I think mafia is trying to hide themselves, and even if we end up lynching a townie, it ends up encouraging more active posting from these people
as far as zorkmid goes, my opinion on him is neutral atm, I think he might be a little overwhelmed by the number of new names, and he has a decent number of posts compared to those three, so I'm willing to give him a day to slip up if he is scum.
My vote is already on Eiii, so I'm going to keep it on there for now.
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I could, in theory, run through the thread and try to squeeze some sort of meaning out of the 5-20 posts everyone has made so far but I don't think anyone'd be better off for it. I understand that discussion like that is overall a good thing, but at this point I don't feel I could come up with anything that doesn't make me look bad :/ This early game time is by far what I'm worst at at the moment-- without anything having actually *happened* yet I have a really hard time seeing anyone as scummy or innocent.
Of your list of three lurkers up there, GGQ is the most suspicious to me atm-- I remember him being fairly active in XXXVIII and very active in Insane 2, but so far he's made four posts, two of which have been about the rules/setup.
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On April 27 2011 05:03 GMarshal wrote: Sorry Ace, but I think your analysis is faulty, I don't see Jackal as being scum atm. It could be my relative inexperience, or it might just be that we disagree on that, but I think that at the moment jackal is a terrible lynch, at the very least he is being vocal, which is much, much more than what we can say for many of the players in this thread.
I know I've said this many times before, but I think our best call today is to lynch a lurker, with a non-unifed mafia it also means they have no way of knowing if they are lynching a buddy, which makes it much less likely to be misdirected than the usual attempts at day 1 inactive lynches.
Ok then well for now we'll just agree to disagree.
I'm not sold on lynching lurkers yet. I feel as if we've got more than enough information in 15 pages to do some suitable scum hunting.
In a few hours I'll post my information. By then the people that haven't answered my questions probably won't.
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I'd be happy to answer your question, but like I said I don't really get how you even want me to approach it
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Just name 3 people you'd contact if you were Cell leader and the message you'd send them. Approach it any way you feel answers the question.
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I would like to suggest you post your info right now, so it can be relevant to the current lynch. If you post it in a few hours, it's gonna make no difference, at least for today. There was enough time already for anyone willing to answer your questions to have done so.
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On April 27 2011 06:47 Ace wrote: I'm not sold on lynching lurkers yet. I feel as if we've got more than enough information in 15 pages to do some suitable scum hunting.
Well, convince me.....otherwise, this looks scummy as fuck.
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Alright, fair enough. The first order of business for the cell leader would be to inform all of the agents of each other, but that can easily be done in one five-word message for each. So since I apparently get to pick who the agents are I guess I'm just building a strong scum team.
Ace -- ofc. Never played with you, but everything I've read makes you seem like a strong player Jacakal -- very disruptive style of play, ever since insane 2 I've been thinking he could be really good on a scum team if he played right Tackster -- Partially because it'd be funny to make jackal bus him, and partially because his more calm and straightforward style of play would counter the more argumentative/'you suck' style coming from ace/jackal. Diversity is good afaik
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On April 27 2011 06:56 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:47 Ace wrote: I'm not sold on lynching lurkers yet. I feel as if we've got more than enough information in 15 pages to do some suitable scum hunting.
Well, convince me.....otherwise, this looks scummy as fuck.
convince you of what? Over half the players in this game have posted at least one post of substance. Good - now you can scum hunt. Trying to lynch lurkers on Day 1 isn't always a good idea and depending on the setup is quite foolish.
This is one of those setups. If you're an Agent lurking doesn't benefit you nor does it hinder you. It's not a scum tell and even in normal setups it isn't a scum tell.
On April 27 2011 06:54 sandroba wrote: I would like to suggest you post your info right now, so it can be relevant to the current lynch. If you post it in a few hours, it's gonna make no difference, at least for today. There was enough time already for anyone willing to answer your questions to have done so.
It's not relevant to the current lynch. It's relevant for Night 1 actions though. Don't worry it'll all make sense soon.
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@Eiii: I'm the greatest Mafia player of all time. True story bro.
Let me clarify about scum tells since I know the inevitable is going to happen where someone ends up arguing a moot point.
Day 1 scum tells are usually very weak. It takes either a monster slip, a role or information that can act during the day, or generating some discussion that ultimately splits the players into groups where there is a strong possibility that Scum is stuck in one of them.
Lynching lurkers on Day 1 does none of this especially when the case against them is "you haven't posted enough". This would be fine if it happened in a newbie game since they tend to do ridiculous things like this because they don't know any better. Is this a game full of newbies? No. So pretty much everyone here knows that blatantly lurking as Scum on Day 1 would result in a suspicious looks.
Secondly, and this is really important: There is no pressure on any of the lurkers to post Day 1. Remember what I said about information? Has any role information been created since the OP was posted that involves these lurkers? No. So it's not like they are running away from an accusation. So trying to lynch lurkers because you think they are Scum is a waste right now.
If you want to lynch lurkers on the premise that they won't help us later on in the game then hey - go for it. But trying to point to them and say they aren't contributing so they are most likely scum is old meta. Everyone knows it so it's no longer relevant.
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for all I know that's the truth
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On April 27 2011 06:20 Eiii wrote: I could, in theory, run through the thread and try to squeeze some sort of meaning out of the 5-20 posts everyone has made so far but I don't think anyone'd be better off for it. I understand that discussion like that is overall a good thing, but at this point I don't feel I could come up with anything that doesn't make me look bad :/ This early game time is by far what I'm worst at at the moment-- without anything having actually *happened* yet I have a really hard time seeing anyone as scummy or innocent.
Of your list of three lurkers up there, GGQ is the most suspicious to me atm-- I remember him being fairly active in XXXVIII and very active in Insane 2, but so far he's made four posts, two of which have been about the rules/setup.
Trying to chainsaw the lurker label on to me, nice. You literally just gave an explanation for why you haven't posted much, then said I'm suspicious because I haven't posted much. Give me a break. Not to mention, my post count so far in this game is very much in line with my usual play. I always focus on quality instead of quantity.
For future referance, though, school's out and I'm working now, so I can only post between supper and bedtime. I'll try to keep activity up, of course, but my hours of access will be limited.
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On April 27 2011 00:26 GMarshal wrote: Jackal, I like your accusation, however I would leave tnkted alone for now as if he has a weird role as he claims the mafia is much more likely to hit him
You are approaching this like a regular game. Because of the agent mechanic, the other mafia don't know if he is mafia or blue, so they won't risk hitting him.
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sorry guys for being incredibly useless but im confused AND pretty busy as of late. Its best to leave tnkted alone because i doubt mafia would claim a weird role in the beginning.
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United States22154 Posts
On April 27 2011 08:27 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:26 GMarshal wrote: Jackal, I like your accusation, however I would leave tnkted alone for now as if he has a weird role as he claims the mafia is much more likely to hit him You are approaching this like a regular game. Because of the agent mechanic, the other mafia don't know if he is mafia or blue, so they won't risk hitting him.
I disagree, I think mafia are going to hit him anyway, because his role has provided something they can all see as a focus point. Cell agents all vote together for who they want to kill, almost like a mini lynch, with no way of knowing who is scum or town, so they are going to go for people they perceive to be playing the way town would/not they way scum would. What kind of retarded scum would publicly breadcrumb? Therefore the agents will conclude he isn't one of them and kill him, since they know he isn't a member. My thought process if I were an agent at least.
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Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes. So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons. The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
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The first scenario makes no sense to me. So ace is trying to bus why (or vice-versa) by voting you? Is there something I'm missing here?
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I'm not sure what to make of it, but it is pretty unusual play by him.
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I'm sorry that should have read bandwagon.
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United States22154 Posts
@Jackal, Ace is a scary player on either side, mafia or town, his town play is not up to his mafia play, but thats because his scum play is miles ahead of what almost anyone can pull off. His ability to mislead and misdirect the town is something to be terrified of and if he is mafia we can expect him to be ready to start crushing the town soon, as a policy, every dt in the universe should be checking him. I'm not familiar with his town play other than "from this point forward I'll talk with my guns" and knowing Qatol was mafia in the one were Qatol was the scum mayor, that was the game where he did the whole "posters who are invisible to me" thing too. Overall Ace is a vet, no-one should underestimate his play, town or mafia.
I find it mildly amusing that I posted the names of three people as inactive and all three of them popped up sooner rather than later. Almost as if they were watching the thread...
Ace, you say that lurking is "old meta" but I have found that in my experience even experienced players tend to lurk as mafia, since its simply much more comfortable/you are less likely to slip up, especially without a team giving direction/help I think many of these players might decide to lurk, or at least be mildly inactive. You seem to think jackal is scum, is there any other player you think is likely to be mafia as well?
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On April 27 2011 09:15 GMarshal wrote: @Jackal, Ace is a scary player on either side, mafia or town, his town play is not up to his mafia play, but thats because his scum play is miles ahead of what almost anyone can pull off. That was my impression as well but I think the only time we played together was in PYP II. I was lynched on day 1 so it wasn't very long. I basically sacrificed myself to prove that 1 of the 5 people above me on the draft list was scum. I was not scum then I am not scum now. I see no reason to be a sacrificial lamb in this game so I'm just a little bit irked. Hell the only time I've ever been scum was in LSB's Clues and Puzzles game. You know how that worked out for me.
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Just posting complete filler to show you i'm up to date! Had a late night out so i'll post more in the mornin! Night all!
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Day Ends in less than 1 hour
4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
Kenpachi and Imprevious need to revote since they voted for themselves.
GGQ, Mr. Wiggles, Rean, Eiii, Tackster, and Vain all need to vote or they will be modkilled.
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I'm going off to study pretty soon. I'm going to put my vote on Darmousseh. His only contribution has been something like 6 posts, saying "I'm town, don't lynch me", pointing out a blue twice, jumping on a lynch target quickly after GMarshal's FoS, and then being annoyed that people didn't like that he called out someone as blue twice. 6 posts, 0 contribution.
##Vote: Darmousseh
Good night! :p (And thanks for the birthday wishes!)
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On April 27 2011 09:15 GMarshal wrote: @Jackal, Ace is a scary player on either side, mafia or town, his town play is not up to his mafia play, but thats because his scum play is miles ahead of what almost anyone can pull off. His ability to mislead and misdirect the town is something to be terrified of and if he is mafia we can expect him to be ready to start crushing the town soon, as a policy, every dt in the universe should be checking him. I'm not familiar with his town play other than "from this point forward I'll talk with my guns" and knowing Qatol was mafia in the one were Qatol was the scum mayor, that was the game where he did the whole "posters who are invisible to me" thing too. Overall Ace is a vet, no-one should underestimate his play, town or mafia.
I find it mildly amusing that I posted the names of three people as inactive and all three of them popped up sooner rather than later. Almost as if they were watching the thread...
Ace, you say that lurking is "old meta" but I have found that in my experience even experienced players tend to lurk as mafia, since its simply much more comfortable/you are less likely to slip up, especially without a team giving direction/help I think many of these players might decide to lurk, or at least be mildly inactive. You seem to think jackal is scum, is there any other player you think is likely to be mafia as well?
If every game you go after lurkers then Mafia just won't lurk. We're speaking of Day 1 here and not further along in the game when at times as Scum it is a good idea to lurk.
Either way I'm removing my vote on Jackal so no one does anything crazy since I think this isn't majority lynch and you can die with 2 votes on you.
Beside jackal no one else is a major suspect to me.
And yes my post is still coming in later.
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oh damn, no abstains. Eh ok voting for Kenpachi
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Hmm, doubting between Darmousseh and Zorkmid. Don't really get that blue tell don't mind me post and zorkmid has been posting waaay less than last game where he was town. This could also be an indication of blue so ill leave it at that.
##Vote: Darmousseh
Sleep well and late happy birthday Wiggles
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On April 27 2011 10:18 chaoser wrote:Day Ends in less than 1 hourShow nested quote +4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. Kenpachi and Imprevious need to revote since they voted for themselves.
GGQ, Mr. Wiggles, Rean, Eiii, Tackster, and Vain all need to vote or they will be modkilled.
OP says days end at midnight EST.
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Yeah, I was under that impression as well :S
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The Day Post said Day ends at 10:00 (22:00) EST while the OP says Midnight. To give people more time, the deadline will be moved to midnight
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Fuck. I made a mistake in the OP. But, I have to give benefit of the doubt to people following the OP. For that reason, the day will be extended to midnight EST. All future day/night changes will also occur at midnight EST.
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On April 27 2011 08:46 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 08:27 GGQ wrote:On April 27 2011 00:26 GMarshal wrote: Jackal, I like your accusation, however I would leave tnkted alone for now as if he has a weird role as he claims the mafia is much more likely to hit him You are approaching this like a regular game. Because of the agent mechanic, the other mafia don't know if he is mafia or blue, so they won't risk hitting him. I disagree, I think mafia are going to hit him anyway, because his role has provided something they can all see as a focus point. Cell agents all vote together for who they want to kill, almost like a mini lynch, with no way of knowing who is scum or town, so they are going to go for people they perceive to be playing the way town would/not they way scum would. What kind of retarded scum would publicly breadcrumb? Therefore the agents will conclude he isn't one of them and kill him, since they know he isn't a member. My thought process if I were an agent at least.
Hey, remember that time we were supposed to watch out for posters who try to direct the cell agents...?
anyway I'm gonna vote for kenpachi (for now) since he's self-confirmed as useless. If tackster's gonna be modkilled then we should probably throw all our votes into him, though.
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Oh ya. if i live, i have requested a replacement. dunno whats going on
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On April 27 2011 10:37 Impervious wrote: ##Vote: Ace kk.
I think there's another thread you need to vote in.
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On April 27 2011 10:43 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 08:46 GMarshal wrote:On April 27 2011 08:27 GGQ wrote:On April 27 2011 00:26 GMarshal wrote: Jackal, I like your accusation, however I would leave tnkted alone for now as if he has a weird role as he claims the mafia is much more likely to hit him You are approaching this like a regular game. Because of the agent mechanic, the other mafia don't know if he is mafia or blue, so they won't risk hitting him. I disagree, I think mafia are going to hit him anyway, because his role has provided something they can all see as a focus point. Cell agents all vote together for who they want to kill, almost like a mini lynch, with no way of knowing who is scum or town, so they are going to go for people they perceive to be playing the way town would/not they way scum would. What kind of retarded scum would publicly breadcrumb? Therefore the agents will conclude he isn't one of them and kill him, since they know he isn't a member. My thought process if I were an agent at least. Hey, remember that time we were supposed to watch out for posters who try to direct the cell agents...? anyway I'm gonna vote for kenpachi (for now) since he's self-confirmed as useless. If tackster's gonna be modkilled then we should probably throw all our votes into him, though. I would kill you for this. bye
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On April 27 2011 10:56 Zorkmid wrote:I think there's another thread you need to vote in. Already done. over 10 minutes ago.
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On April 27 2011 10:43 Eiii wrote:
anyway I'm gonna vote for kenpachi (for now) since he's self-confirmed as useless. If tackster's gonna be modkilled then we should probably throw all our votes into him, though. He has posted and voted. Why would he be mod killed?
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On April 27 2011 10:18 chaoser wrote: GGQ, Mr. Wiggles, Rean, Eiii, Tackster, and Vain all need to vote or they will be modkilled. [/b]
He still hasn't voted, and his last post said he'd be off for the night :/
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I actually wanted to draw a hit from mafia tonight, hopefully I did. I'll explain after the day post.
Some people weren't content letting me play my game (jackal, of whom I would expect nothing less, impervious, who I think is just new, and zorkmid, who got overly defensive when he was FOS'd and immediately latched onto what he considered the weakest player). This was pretty stupid on their part. I think most of the rest of the crew here understood that I was trying to draw mafia attention with my 'fake' slip. Ace certainly got it, when he called it bad play, and I think darm understood it. I didn't realize Ace was so well regarded in the mafia community, but apparently he is and he's probably going to be killed tonight. If I were scum I'd vote for him. Hopefully my gambit drew enough votes to save him.
Full claim after the post.
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Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is still Day time. Scum haven't sent in any hits yet, we're still waiting on the lynch.
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*facepalm*
Well, I totally misread what was happening then.
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...how did you even remotely think night 1 was ending when day 1 is a couple hours away from finishing? And then there's this:
On April 27 2011 11:28 tnkted wrote: I didn't realize Ace was so well regarded in the mafia community, but apparently he is and he's probably going to be killed tonight. If I were scum I'd vote for him. so that's a massive FoS
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On April 27 2011 11:28 tnkted wrote: I actually wanted to draw a hit from mafia tonight, hopefully I did. I'll explain after the day post.
Some people weren't content letting me play my game (jackal, of whom I would expect nothing less, impervious, who I think is just new, and zorkmid, who got overly defensive when he was FOS'd and immediately latched onto what he considered the weakest player). This was pretty stupid on their part. I think most of the rest of the crew here understood that I was trying to draw mafia attention with my 'fake' slip. Ace certainly got it, when he called it bad play, and I think darm understood it. I didn't realize Ace was so well regarded in the mafia community, but apparently he is and he's probably going to be killed tonight. If I were scum I'd vote for him. Hopefully my gambit drew enough votes to save him.
Full claim after the post. Dude. Bullshit. First Impervious isn't new. Second When I see shit I don't understand I ask about it. I understand your love of breadcrumbs and gambits. But don't fucking try to tell me I'm out of line when I call somebody on a bullshit laden post. I'm not clairvoyant. I can't read your mind. When I see bullshit I call it what it is. If I had a hand in ruing some gambit you were trying to run don't blame me. Your execution left a lot to be desired. If you're going to rum some kind of gambit run it. Don't start bitching that I rained on your parade. If you expected me to piss in your Kool Aid you probably should have done something different. Bullshit. I'm not responsible for your gambits failure. You are.
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On April 27 2011 11:28 tnkted wrote: I actually wanted to draw a hit from mafia tonight, hopefully I did. I'll explain after the day post.
Some people weren't content letting me play my game (jackal, of whom I would expect nothing less, impervious, who I think is just new, and zorkmid, who got overly defensive when he was FOS'd and immediately latched onto what he considered the weakest player). This was pretty stupid on their part. I think most of the rest of the crew here understood that I was trying to draw mafia attention with my 'fake' slip. Ace certainly got it, when he called it bad play, and I think darm understood it. I didn't realize Ace was so well regarded in the mafia community, but apparently he is and he's probably going to be killed tonight. If I were scum I'd vote for him. Hopefully my gambit drew enough votes to save him.
Full claim after the post.
TL;DR: I think I'm smarter than all of you. Oh, wait.....I'm not.
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If you wanna post TL;DR go to dyslexics anothernymouse
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I'm going to bed. Goodnight guys.
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On April 27 2011 11:52 Jackal58 wrote: First Impervious isn't new.
I'm flattered that you would stand up for me here.
While this is far from my first game of mafia, this is only my 3rd game on TL. Thanks for standing up for me, although I'm sure you're still a little buthurt from the results of the Superbowl.
<3 GB Packers!
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you guys sure you dont want BrownBear as part of town?
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Night 1
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS The government has just issued a situation report on a raid that happened not but two hours ago:
"At twenty-two hundred hours today, the house of Kenpachi was raided by the government due to tips that he was an enemy agent from cilivian sources. As governemnt agents were searching the house, one Kenpachi appeared out of the basement and aggressively approached the search team. He reached into his pockets and deeming him a hostile target, the search team responded with deadly force. Two rounds were fired to subdue him and when inspecting his body, it was found that he had high blood-alcohol levels and his pocket contained a wallent and a pack of cigerettes."
Thirty minutes afterwards, Deputy Director Chaoser of the SIA called a news conference where he publicly apologized for the debacle and vowed to examine the intelligence the agency was receiving more closely before acting on it.
"A tragedy happened today and there are no excuses for what transpired. I take full responsibilities for the events of today and an internal audit will be conducted. However, at this time, our ground operations of searching for sleeper agents will still be continued and justice will prevail..."
While panic is rampant and confusion continues to spread amongst the populace, traces of decency still exist. A ceremony for Kenpachi will be held on Wednesday of next week at the church on 34th and 5th.
In unrelated news, two civilians, one named Rean and the other Tackster, were found dead in an alleyway. Autopsy of the two has yet to return any conclusive results on how they died but witnesses reported strange lightening bolts coming down from the sky in the vicinity of where the two were found.
That's all for tonight and this is iGrok of the Channel 4 News Team, signing off. Coverage will continue tomorrow and to everyone out there, good luck and good night.
Kenpachi the Townie is dead Rean the Sleeper Agent has been modkilled Tackster the Townie has been modkilled
Night ends at 24:00 EST tomorrow, be sure to get in your night actions
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......I didn't realize the deadline was this night
Sorry mafia
edit:fixed it since i was kinda pissed when writing this
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On April 27 2011 17:13 Rean wrote: ......I didn't realize the deadline was this night. Also, sending a reminder 1 hour before the vote is nice and all but when the voting deadline is in the middle of the night for you that's not really helpful >.<
Sorry mafia I guess.....
I don't really see how you could have read this thread and not realized this. Don't blame mods for your own laziness.
Also you should apologize to everyone, not just mafia....you made the game shittier for everyone.
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On April 27 2011 13:02 chaoser wrote: Night ends at 24:00 EST tomorrow, be sure to get in your night actions
This is midnight EST right? Military brat here, gotta say midnight is 00:00, not 24:00
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United States22154 Posts
I realize its night time, but that is no reason to shut up and stop discussion, we have all of twenty four hours to start deciding things like lynches and blue direction. For the sake of discussion I am going to post a list of people I think need DT checks, vigi shots and medic protects.
DT Checks
Jackal58 - Ace thinks Jackal has been acting scummy, for this reason alone I think a dt should take a look at jackal, the results would be interesting either way
Mr. Wiggles - I already pointed out that I am suspicious of him, it would be nice to know definitely, as I know wiggles has the potential to contribute to the town if he is town aligned, if he is not he is very good about scooting along with large vacuous posts
GMarshal - DTs should aways check the most vocal players. I consider myself a vocal player, therefore I should be checked
Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch.
Impervious- he has many posts, yet oddly enough, not a single one of them stuck in my mind, to me this means his posts have been empty enough to not be memorable, I think that merits a check
Vigilante Shots - now its *really* debated whether it is best for vigilantes to shoot night one or not, if the vigi is not in imminent danger and is not confident on his mafia kill I belive in saving the shot for later, however some people subscribe to using it for people they would lynch on policy, e.g. liars, or lurkers. If a vigi *had* to fire tonight I would think the best shot would be at an inactive who might be lurking scum. That is the gist of my suggestions on here
Eiii- Lurking, pops up to defend himself, resumes lurking, not a town asset at the moment, so we can do without him
GGQ- more of the same deal with Eiii, lurking inactively, hasn't really weighed in on anything.
why- with a grand total of four posts all he has done is attack jackal, I dont think he is contributing and we can do without him
Vain- I see every one of his posts as either a rehash of old ideas or a non-contribution
darm- because I think it would be hilarious to have him die day one this game too (don't actually shoot him for that, it was a joke...)
Medic Protects
GMarshal- I dont want to die, please dont let me die, I'll go through mafia withdrawal again and it wont be pretty
Ace- he is Ace, high profile target and all that, I want him around in the late game.
Jackal (maybe) - he is a great endgame player, and I wouldn't mind having him around to scum-hunt in the late game, I don't know how likely it is he will be targeted though.
other than that I don't know who scum might go after to be honest, as they risk hitting one of their own whatever they choose to do
Alright, so take a gander and debate my list up and down, who did I forget to include ? Who did I include who shouldn't be there?
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GM, anyone you have a strong town read on?
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GMan do you really want vigis shooting tonight?
From the OP: Mafia wins when they outnumber Town and Town has no killing roles remaining. Mafia will kill the submitted name with a simple majority of votes.
Seems a bit hasty to me man.
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On April 27 2011 22:49 GMarshal wrote: I realize its night time, but that is no reason to shut up and stop discussion, we have all of twenty four hours to start deciding things like lynches and blue direction. For the sake of discussion I am going to post a list of people I think need DT checks, vigi shots and medic protects.
DT Checks
Jackal58 - Ace thinks Jackal has been acting scummy, for this reason alone I think a dt should take a look at jackal, the results would be interesting either way
Mr. Wiggles - I already pointed out that I am suspicious of him, it would be nice to know definitely, as I know wiggles has the potential to contribute to the town if he is town aligned, if he is not he is very good about scooting along with large vacuous posts
GMarshal - DTs should aways check the most vocal players. I consider myself a vocal player, therefore I should be checked
Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch.
Impervious- he has many posts, yet oddly enough, not a single one of them stuck in my mind, to me this means his posts have been empty enough to not be memorable, I think that merits a check
Vigilante Shots - now its *really* debated whether it is best for vigilantes to shoot night one or not, if the vigi is not in imminent danger and is not confident on his mafia kill I belive in saving the shot for later, however some people subscribe to using it for people they would lynch on policy, e.g. liars, or lurkers. If a vigi *had* to fire tonight I would think the best shot would be at an inactive who might be lurking scum. That is the gist of my suggestions on here
Eiii- Lurking, pops up to defend himself, resumes lurking, not a town asset at the moment, so we can do without him
GGQ- more of the same deal with Eiii, lurking inactively, hasn't really weighed in on anything.
why- with a grand total of four posts all he has done is attack jackal, I dont think he is contributing and we can do without him
Vain- I see every one of his posts as either a rehash of old ideas or a non-contribution
darm- because I think it would be hilarious to have him die day one this game too (don't actually shoot him for that, it was a joke...)
Medic Protects
GMarshal- I dont want to die, please dont let me die, I'll go through mafia withdrawal again and it wont be pretty
Ace- he is Ace, high profile target and all that, I want him around in the late game.
Jackal (maybe) - he is a great endgame player, and I wouldn't mind having him around to scum-hunt in the late game, I don't know how likely it is he will be targeted though.
other than that I don't know who scum might go after to be honest, as they risk hitting one of their own whatever they choose to do
Alright, so take a gander and debate my list up and down, who did I forget to include ? Who did I include who shouldn't be there?
I guess we're going to use traditional mafia lingo in this game.....
For the DT checks, I'd also want to know about Ace. He is a great player, which is why I'd want to be sure he's on my side. He's also acting a little weird, and I'm not sure what to make of it at the moment. He would be my check tonight, for sure, unless something happens between now and the end of the night.
I'm also confused about why. From what I've seen in the thread, he's held in somewhat high regard (this is my first time playing with him, and I haven't observed a game where he played either, so I don't know myself). With having few posts, and generally unconstructive posting (I know most of mine are also pretty useless, but I've got a lot of them, so I'll eventually write something useful, much like how a room full of monkeys with typewriters will eventually come up with the entire work of Shakespeare), it seems like it would be pretty uncharacteristic of an experienced player.
I dont think the vigi is in danger yet..... The chance of getting hit tonight/lyched tomorrow is pretty low, and it will probably be far more useful to have the kill around for later. Also, while there are players we can do without, I really think it would be better to lynch them rather than waste a vigi kill on. So I'd agree, unless the Vigi has a really good lead on one of the members of the mafia, it would be better to save the hit for later.
Also, while it would be nice to have a medic on our side (among other roles, such as a veteran), we don't know for sure. It would be better to assume that we don't. We're going to need to assume that we'll lose someone tonight, and at this point, it seems to be pretty unlikely that the mafia will force a kill on one of their own.
Another thing to worry about - the mafia just lost a member. Unless Rean was the first person contacted by the GF (which I find very unlikely, although it is possible that the GF made that big of a mistake), then there are probably only 2 more people who have to be contacted..... Which means the mafia should know who each other are. While it's not as useful as being able to discuss at night, like most mafia games, it will help them tremendously. We have to assume that for tomorrow night, they'll be able to be somewhat coordinated.....
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On April 27 2011 11:28 tnkted wrote: I actually wanted to draw a hit from mafia tonight, hopefully I did. I'll explain after the day post.
Some people weren't content letting me play my game (jackal, of whom I would expect nothing less, impervious, who I think is just new, and zorkmid, who got overly defensive when he was FOS'd and immediately latched onto what he considered the weakest player). This was pretty stupid on their part. I think most of the rest of the crew here understood that I was trying to draw mafia attention with my 'fake' slip. Ace certainly got it, when he called it bad play, and I think darm understood it. I didn't realize Ace was so well regarded in the mafia community, but apparently he is and he's probably going to be killed tonight. If I were scum I'd vote for him. Hopefully my gambit drew enough votes to save him.
Full claim after the post.
I agree with your list GM, and would like to suggest adding tnkted to the DT list. I previously had a slight town read on him, but I find it hard to believe this wasn't done on purpose. C'mon, not reading the thread before posting this and claiming missing the the night post by about 23 hours? I also don't understand how he can be so sure ace is not scum to go out of his way to do this, just to fuck up his own genious plan before it came to fruition.
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Let's wait and see if Ace is still alive tomorrow before we waste a check on him.
It will take us a long time to determine whether we have a medic or not, as no sane person with a sense of self preservation dares claim.
GM, I'm thinking that your Vigi list should be more for DT checks. I'm not sold on first night shootings for vigis, as they can be oh so valuable later on.
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Ok here goes. So I took everyone's list of 3 for a reason. I wanted to see which players had the most people willing to admit they'd contact them secretly through PMs. I tallied them up and here are the final results. I also took out what I thought were unique keywords the players used when describing what they'd say to each player they picked.
GMarshal
Ace - pardoner, XXXVIII, veteran, information Mr. Wiggles - serial killer why
sandroba Ace GM Mr. Wiggles
Ace Eiii - recall, 2 years ago Jackal58 - suck Gmarshal/darmousseh/GGQ - modded, prime, choices
Jackal58 tnkted - My beloved Tackster - You're easiest (dead) GMarshall - Clues and Puzzles
tnkted Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd
Rean (dead) Jackal58 - breadcrumb this, my beloved GMarshal - "wheels on bus go round" my bus driving skills in insane 2
Vain Ace tnkted GMarshal
why "do something specific" Ace Wiggles GGQ
Zorkmid Ace - Make friends of Violence, Joy Jackal58 - Make friends of Violence, Avarice Vain - Make friends of Avarice, Joy
Mr. Wiggles PI Bear, Detective, grisly Ace - analyzer/arguer GMarshal - all around player Jackal58 - tunnel, aggressive, friendly fire
Impervious Ace Mr.Wiggles GMarshal
Eiii Ace Jackal - insane 2 Tackster (dead)
[u]Final Tally[u] Ace (8) Mr.Wiggles (4) why GMarshal(7) Eiii Jackal58 (5) darmousseh GGQ(2) tnkted(2) Tackster(2) Rean Vain
So the top players that the Detective should check tonight: myself, GM, Jackal and Mr.Wiggles. We are the players that were mentioned the most as players that would be picked to contact.
Secondly those keywords are there so that from now on (or even before this post) if anyone posts with those unique words we have something to go off of. With the Cell Leader not being able to mass communicate I think keywords in the thread are their only option. With everyone on the lookout for keywords or hints to things only the players would share we can slow them down.
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Looks like GMarshall's DT list. And some of those words will be hard to avoid.
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Yea similar ideas just a different path to get there. I tried to pick unique words that would stand out. Even if they are hard to avoid I think that's a way to limit in thread communication. I
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On April 27 2011 22:49 GMarshal wrote: Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch.
I don't know how many games of me you've read but I don't always stick to my vote, especially not Day 1. Also with no majority lynch someone can end up dying with a couple of votes. Like Kenpachi who only died with 3 votes. How come no one went back to look at it?
Zorkmid actually ended up deciding Kenpachi's fate. Mr.Wiggles would have gotten lynched but the vote switch ended up taking out Kenpachi instead. He's also a good target to DT check and may actually be the best one.
@Impervious: Acting weird how?
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United States22154 Posts
On April 28 2011 00:36 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 22:49 GMarshal wrote: Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch.
I don't know how many games of me you've read but I don't always stick to my vote, especially not Day 1. Also with no majority lynch someone can end up dying with a couple of votes. Like Kenpachi who only died with 3 votes. How come no one went back to look at it? Zorkmid actually ended up deciding Kenpachi's fate. Mr.Wiggles would have gotten lynched but the vote switch ended up taking out Kenpachi instead. He's also a good target to DT check and may actually be the best one. @Impervious: Acting weird how?
I realize you dont always stick to your vote, I just expected you to argue harder for your target. what game do you think exemplifies your town play the best? I'd like to go back and read it to try to get a slight grasp on your town meta, tbh most of the games I've read where I've focused on your play are ones where you were mafia.
Its interesting how our DT lists overlap, and you bring up a good point Zorkmid, I hadn't really taken a good look at the votes. Its relevant to note how scattered the votes are, the clear sign of a disunited town and a disunited mafia, we need to work on that tomorrow, as the current vote list reveals little information outside of what Ace just pointed out.
I think your GF target list was a clever idea, I don't know how much it helps, but it did give interesting results.
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There are a bunch of games and really I don't even think I have a meta. Ask someone that's been around for past games that I was in. I guess my "best" Town game I can remember is the one where I claimed DT, sold my checks, figured out a way to catch a bunch of the scum towards the end and then died.
Or maybe that was one of the worst towns I was a part of. So many games like that though so it's hard to pick one.
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Night ends at 24:00 EST tomorrow, be sure to get in your night actions
Night will end at midnight, 04:00 GMT (+00:00), tonight. Please be sure to get your actions in before then. There is 12 more hours till end of night.
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If zorkmid ends up being mafia I'd like to claim the title of being the best day1 scumhunter to ever have walked the earth. Too bad this game has too many egos and no one finds it important to read my posts in detail.
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On April 28 2011 01:24 sandroba wrote: If zorkmid ends up being mafia I'd like to claim the title of being the best day1 scumhunter to ever have walked the earth. Too bad this game has too many egos and no one finds it important to read my posts in detail.
So what role would I have to end up being for you to be the shittiest scumhunter to ever walk the earth?
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Whoa, zork, this is nothing personal. No need to get all worked up about it.
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Care to explain the last minute change of mind?
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On April 28 2011 02:06 sandroba wrote: Whoa, zork, this is nothing personal. No need to get all worked up about it.
I'm not worked up, but if you're aiming for best scumhunter ever, you gotta have a risk attached to it!
I basically changed my mind because Mr Wiggles became more active after pressure was put on him.
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On April 27 2011 01:01 Zorkmid wrote: Sandroba, I think you're town. You thought the same thing about me last game too and you were town then.
By the way, you're dead wrong again.
On April 27 2011 02:21 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:04 GMarshal wrote:On April 27 2011 01:01 Zorkmid wrote: Sandroba, I think you're town. You thought the same thing about me last game too and you were town then.
By the way, you're dead wrong again. Weigh in then please, who do you think is mafia? Why? Lynch is in less than 10 hours, who would you like to see dead? While I'm throwing questions around, if you were a DT who would you check tonight? If you were a busdriver what two people would you swap? why? If I had to guess right now who is mafia I'd say that Tkdted is the most likely. The problem is that I'm afraid that he's equally likely to be a helpful role. Beyond him, I'd say that Mr. Wiggles is a good candidate for no other reason of inactivity. I'm also suspicious of Sandroba, who tried to cast me as mafia in the "surprising normal game I", I feel like he is acting much like he was last game, so maybe he's changing things up on purpose.If I were a DT, a good idea would be to check Tkdted because of his strange claim, maybe sandroba. If I was stuck for someone to check, I'd pick someone with a low post count (Im not quite sure who that is right now, but I'd find that out) Last game, I made it very clear I though zorkmid was town since day1. Everyone can go to the thread and read it, it's a short game. What made you change your mind so quickly? First you say you think I'm town then you say you are suspicious of me when I call you out on playing different than last game when you were town. Does not make sense to me.
On April 28 2011 02:17 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 02:06 sandroba wrote: Whoa, zork, this is nothing personal. No need to get all worked up about it. I'm not worked up, but if you're aiming for best scumhunter ever, you gotta have a risk attached to it! I basically changed my mind because Mr Wiggles became more active after pressure was put on him. Isn't that a reason to suspect someone of being scum even more? Were you afraid to lynch your buddies day1?
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Nah, I just don't give a fuck if inactives die.
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On April 28 2011 02:37 sandroba wrote:
Last game, I made it very clear I though zorkmid was town since day1.
You over tunneled me for 2 entire games, you're just bad. Reading your posts is a waste of vitrious and aqueous humor
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United States22154 Posts
On April 28 2011 02:45 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 02:37 sandroba wrote:
Last game, I made it very clear I though zorkmid was town since day1.
You over tunneled me for 2 entire games, you're just bad. Reading your posts is a waste of vitrious and aqueous humor
Such level of aggressiveness, you really dont like the heat do you?
So tell me, Mr. "I dont give a fuck if inactives die" what have you contributed to this town? Other than "I agree" I mean.
Hmm, I'm starting to think you might be a fine addition for a vigi hit, it would certainly save us alot of arguing tomorrow...
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On April 28 2011 02:52 Zorkmid wrote: /out Too late for that.
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On April 28 2011 01:48 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 01:24 sandroba wrote: If zorkmid ends up being mafia I'd like to claim the title of being the best day1 scumhunter to ever have walked the earth. Too bad this game has too many egos and no one finds it important to read my posts in detail. So what role would I have to end up being for you to be the shittiest scumhunter to ever walk the earth?
I'd like an answer here for later reference plox.
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On April 28 2011 00:18 Ace wrote: So the top players that the Detective should check tonight: myself, GM, Jackal and Mr.Wiggles. We are the players that were mentioned the most as players that would be picked to contact.
I still have no clue what the point of this was. You know the gf doesn't get to pick his scumbuddies, right? Is this some kind of metagaming thing where you're trying to figure out who would be most likely to be picked, or are you gf and do you know something about how the scum side works that we don't?
Ooooor was the point to just assign a unique keyword to a set of players to make communication easier?
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On April 28 2011 02:52 Zorkmid wrote: /out
Zorkmid will hopefully be replaced momentarily
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On April 28 2011 04:28 chaoser wrote:Zorkmid will hopefully be replaced momentarily Seriously? I thought he just typed out in the wrong thread.
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Either that or one of mafia's abilities is to force someone to ragequit
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Please welcome bumatlarge, who will be replacing Zorkmid!
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United States22154 Posts
batman is here!
Hi bum!
Quickly what are your top 2 scum reads?
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Guys gmarshal is mafia from first post, ill post why later
+ Show Spoiler +nah i havent even read the thread yet
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Did you remember to bring the goddamned RPGs??????
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Wow this is confusing, but I think I got the basic gist of the mechanics. Ace, wouldnt the name game be kinda helpful for CL to make a list and be able to point out multiple persons without naming names? And jackal is the traffic thing a breadcrumb lol? I've been reading through thread keeping my eyes open for non-thread related stuff just in case, and you spend a nice chunk on discussing traffic lol...
Kinda suspicious of Ace to what he is suggesting and how it helps town. Jackal next because of the traffic, and I haven't read into anyone else, except tnkted, who will just sit in a corner sprinkling his little crumbs everywhere. Aren't we supposed to try to prevent everyone from being able to breadcrumb, not give them the best opportunities to do so?
Maybe I missed key stuff, but I don't really have much time for a full analysis yet. I'm stuck in traffic
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Oh and before anyone accuses me of breadcrumbing anywhere, I have one word for you:
Batman.
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Yeah, town should definitely be avoiding breadcrumbs, as we don't want to give mafia a screen to hide their breadcrumbs behind.
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On April 28 2011 04:23 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 00:18 Ace wrote: So the top players that the Detective should check tonight: myself, GM, Jackal and Mr.Wiggles. We are the players that were mentioned the most as players that would be picked to contact. I still have no clue what the point of this was. You know the gf doesn't get to pick his scumbuddies, right? Is this some kind of metagaming thing where you're trying to figure out who would be most likely to be picked, or are you gf and do you know something about how the scum side works that we don't? Ooooor was the point to just assign a unique keyword to a set of players to make communication easier?
Yes we know that. The point is that if you see players in the thread change their behaviors toward one another or start typing those unique keywords then there's a chance for secret communication. Did you read my entire post?
@bum: Explain.
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6 more hours till end of night, be sure to PM both me and iGrok your actions
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My DT list:
Mr. Wiggles: People think I'm suspicious cause of GMarshal's analysis, popular demand.
Ace: Experienced player, supposedly God-like Scum, role mechanics would help us know his alignment better and most importantly sooner.
GMarshal: Playing similar to the way he did in XXXVIII, where he was scum. Acted mostly pro-town and made an analysis there of me on Day 1 too. Both times now, the analysis hasn't make a strong case and just ended up saying: "IGMEOY Wiggles! FOS!". So a DT check because of the similarities.
Darmousseh: Lurking hardcore, hasn't contributed. Saying "I'm town, don't lynch me" in his first post and pointing out blues in others doesn't make him seem particularly green to me.
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On April 28 2011 06:57 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 04:23 Eiii wrote:On April 28 2011 00:18 Ace wrote: So the top players that the Detective should check tonight: myself, GM, Jackal and Mr.Wiggles. We are the players that were mentioned the most as players that would be picked to contact. I still have no clue what the point of this was. You know the gf doesn't get to pick his scumbuddies, right? Is this some kind of metagaming thing where you're trying to figure out who would be most likely to be picked, or are you gf and do you know something about how the scum side works that we don't? Ooooor was the point to just assign a unique keyword to a set of players to make communication easier? Yes we know that. The point is that if you see players in the thread change their behaviors toward one another or start typing those unique keywords then there's a chance for secret communication. Did you read my entire post?
That's a given, everyone should have known from the start that when a player mysteriously does a 180 (or less even!) overnight it's something to be looked at.
You didn't answer why DT checks should be directed at those who were basically voted to be a scum dream team. I still don't understand why this tally has any influence whatsoever as to who looks scummy or not.
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Also, my activity tomorrow should probably increase as I just finished my last three exams over the last couple days and don't need to study anymore.
Just a thought too, as the game progresses, scum are going to become a lot more coherent. They still won't have the ability to PM each other or communicate during the day though, but they will know who each other are, and who the Cell Leader is.
What I think this means, is that starting Day 2, we need to be on the lookout for people pushing plans early and other people supporting it early. Scum can't communicate throughout the day, so the Cell leader will probably plan something in a PM during the morning, or else one scum member will push for a plan early on and hope to get the others to support him. Scum need to make their move earlier than later, and will be the most organized right as the day is beginning. As new developments pop up, scum won't be able to deal with them as a team, and will act a lot more fragmented. As such, the more town can pull together and blindside scum better, as they won't be able to actively deal with it as a team.
So look for scummy people jumping to support plans early on, and look for things that look like odd amounts of organization. Also, when new game-changing information pops up, look for people who start to act differently than they were, or who don't seem to react to it and stay stuck in what they were doing before. I think this can show us scum who are freaking out because there's no communication with their team, or scum who don't know what to do because they have no one to direct them.
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On April 28 2011 07:28 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 06:57 Ace wrote:On April 28 2011 04:23 Eiii wrote:On April 28 2011 00:18 Ace wrote: So the top players that the Detective should check tonight: myself, GM, Jackal and Mr.Wiggles. We are the players that were mentioned the most as players that would be picked to contact. I still have no clue what the point of this was. You know the gf doesn't get to pick his scumbuddies, right? Is this some kind of metagaming thing where you're trying to figure out who would be most likely to be picked, or are you gf and do you know something about how the scum side works that we don't? Ooooor was the point to just assign a unique keyword to a set of players to make communication easier? Yes we know that. The point is that if you see players in the thread change their behaviors toward one another or start typing those unique keywords then there's a chance for secret communication. Did you read my entire post? That's a given, everyone should have known from the start that when a player mysteriously does a 180 (or less even!) overnight it's something to be looked at. You didn't answer why DT checks should be directed at those who were basically voted to be a scum dream team. I still don't understand why this tally has any influence whatsoever as to who looks scummy or not.
Those players should be DT checked because most of the players picked them for a Scum dream team like you said . If these are the most active players and everyone acknowledges them for good Scum play then surely they should be scrutinized.
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My scum play so far has just involved never being fingered as scum :p
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On April 28 2011 07:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote: My scum play so far has just involved never being fingered as scum :p
I'll fix that, from now on, day 1 you'll get an analysis definitely proving your scummy nature, even if you aren't in that game
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On April 28 2011 06:28 bumatlarge wrote:Wow this is confusing, but I think I got the basic gist of the mechanics. Ace, wouldnt the name game be kinda helpful for CL to make a list and be able to point out multiple persons without naming names? And jackal is the traffic thing a breadcrumb lol? I've been reading through thread keeping my eyes open for non-thread related stuff just in case, and you spend a nice chunk on discussing traffic lol... Kinda suspicious of Ace to what he is suggesting and how it helps town. Jackal next because of the traffic, and I haven't read into anyone else, except tnkted, who will just sit in a corner sprinkling his little crumbs everywhere. Aren't we supposed to try to prevent everyone from being able to breadcrumb, not give them the best opportunities to do so? Maybe I missed key stuff, but I don't really have much time for a full analysis yet. I'm stuck in traffic It took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to. My ride home last night was brutal. It was back to the norm tonight. Just long.
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On April 28 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 06:28 bumatlarge wrote:Wow this is confusing, but I think I got the basic gist of the mechanics. Ace, wouldnt the name game be kinda helpful for CL to make a list and be able to point out multiple persons without naming names? And jackal is the traffic thing a breadcrumb lol? I've been reading through thread keeping my eyes open for non-thread related stuff just in case, and you spend a nice chunk on discussing traffic lol... Kinda suspicious of Ace to what he is suggesting and how it helps town. Jackal next because of the traffic, and I haven't read into anyone else, except tnkted, who will just sit in a corner sprinkling his little crumbs everywhere. Aren't we supposed to try to prevent everyone from being able to breadcrumb, not give them the best opportunities to do so? Maybe I missed key stuff, but I don't really have much time for a full analysis yet. I'm stuck in traffic It took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to. My ride home last night was brutal. It was back to the norm tonight. Just long.
I'll be moving to lynch the next person to refer to traffic, ride, or any driving terms, hell any non-mafia conversations will be suspicious! this isn't your personal blogs section, whatever some people may have believed in the past
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On April 28 2011 08:02 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote:On April 28 2011 06:28 bumatlarge wrote:Wow this is confusing, but I think I got the basic gist of the mechanics. Ace, wouldnt the name game be kinda helpful for CL to make a list and be able to point out multiple persons without naming names? And jackal is the traffic thing a breadcrumb lol? I've been reading through thread keeping my eyes open for non-thread related stuff just in case, and you spend a nice chunk on discussing traffic lol... Kinda suspicious of Ace to what he is suggesting and how it helps town. Jackal next because of the traffic, and I haven't read into anyone else, except tnkted, who will just sit in a corner sprinkling his little crumbs everywhere. Aren't we supposed to try to prevent everyone from being able to breadcrumb, not give them the best opportunities to do so? Maybe I missed key stuff, but I don't really have much time for a full analysis yet. I'm stuck in traffic It took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to. My ride home last night was brutal. It was back to the norm tonight. Just long. I'll be moving to lynch the next person to refer to traffic, ride, or any driving terms, hell any non-mafia conversations will be suspicious! this isn't your personal blogs section, whatever some people may have believed in the past I only mentioned it to put my thought process into context.
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@Ace: It gives them more oppurtunities to clue in sleepers, if they are only chosen on one list. Then CL could simply say "uronmylist" and person would immediately know. There may be better ways, but we might as well not give them that more then they need with those lists. I don't think you have anyone unique on your list, so I can't really accuse you of anything there.
Also, Im not following exactly how this benefits us?
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About 3 hours left till the end of NIGHT, please be sure to PM both me and iGrok your night actions
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United States22154 Posts
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On April 28 2011 13:00 GMarshal wrote: f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5
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Day 2
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS Neighbors were startled by the sound of gunshots at 22:00 tonight. Police responded immediately, but were unable to apprehend the attacker.
The body of Gmarshal was found on the floor of his bedroom, his arm outstreched towards his bedside table. Within, investigators found a Glock 23 Standard Issue firearm. The house was quickly cordoned off by SIA agents. Deputy Director Chaoser quickly released this statement: "The man you all knew as Gmarshal was actually one of my finest agents, Agent Sean Plott. Agent Plott was investigating the terrorist cell undercover from inside the town. He will be dearly missed.
Unfortunately, we cannot release any information about the murder. We are working very hard to crack down on this terrorist cell. But know this, terrorist scum: The murder of one of our own will only make us double, triple our efforts. We will not go quietly into the night. We SHALL discover you. And WHEN WE DO-"
At this point, an SIA aide ushered the Deputy Director off stage.
Well, quite a speech. I can only pray that the terrorist cell is brought down swiftly, before more innocents are killed.
This is iGrok of the Channel 4 News Team, signing off for the moment. Tune in tonight for the continuing coverage of Terror Watch 2011!
Gmarshal the Intelligence Agent is dead
Day ends at 00:00 EST April 30th.
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United States22154 Posts
Fuck, there goes my chance of getting the girl....
gl town, nail those bastards for me
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On April 28 2011 13:06 GMarshal wrote: Fuck, there goes my chance of getting the girl....
gl town, nail those bastards for me
/salute
bed time, give me something to talk about tomorrow, guys.
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On April 28 2011 13:06 GMarshal wrote: Fuck, there goes my chance of getting the girl....
gl town, nail those bastards for me Well poop. We will man.
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Sorry for not posting more, I've unexpectedly had to work multiple 14 hour days and haven't had time to do anything but sleep and work. I've asked for a replacement, but until that comes through I'm going to do my best to help out.
I think Ace should be the number one lynch candidate today. Here are my reasons:
Ace's plan resulted in very little information for town. It supposedly generated a DT check list by seeing who would be the most likely to be messaged if they were a sleeper. However, this obviously has very little relation to who is actually a sleeper. I think it was a lot of hoopla for not a lot of payoff, which makes me think that Ace had an alternative plan. My guess is that he is either a sleeper agent that is trying to help the CL by providing an excuse to post lists of players (which is a strategy multiple people have said they would employ were they a CL) or he is the CL himself who wants to use his list to inform people. Ace is a good player and is not above publicly pushing a plan that benefits mafia.
Also, Ace's play day 1 reminded me a lot of his play in Orgah Mafia, just sitting back and shooting down plans while not sticking his neck out too much. In that game I believe he was a survivor. When you think about it, being a survivor is almost identical to being a sleeper agent early in this game; you have no allies and your goal is primarily to survive (this obviously changes once you get a PM from the CL). To be honest, I haven't read any of Ace's games except for that one, so he may just always play this way, but it still makes me suspicious.
I'm also a little suspicious of Jackal58 still (especially given his paranoid reaction to my and Ace's pressure), but I think that may just be standard Jackal.
Zorkmid I'm not that suspicious of, even though he caused Kenpachi (who turned out town) to die over Mr. Wiggles. To say that he did this with an agenda is to say that either Zorkmid is CL or Zorkmid was the person that the CL PM'ed first. I doubt that Zorkmid was PM'ed first, as he appeared on very few of Ace's lists. If he was CL, then it seems way too brazen an attempt at influencing the vote to do without posting in the thread. Plus it was about an hour until the vote ended, so it wasn't like it was a ninja attempt.
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Zorkmid has been replaced by Bumatlarge. And I wasn't paranoid just honestly amazed that I was called scum.
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I agree with the pressure on Ace. Why?
On April 26 2011 01:16 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. How about you give us a reason as to why this is NOT a waste of time? How is knowing what everyone would pick in the hypothetical situation they're GF getting us anywhere close to catching scum?
On April 26 2011 00:29 Rean wrote: the fuck is this shit.
youre discussing how the gf can crumb in his messages WHEN THATS USELESS TO TOWN. seriously, we dont give a fuck how they crumb because we wont find out about it anyway if mafia is even half-decent.
and now you're even making cutesy lists on who you would message if you were the GF? STOP BEING USELESS. seriously, you people are randomly discussing things that don't get us anywhere.
fos list so far:
ace/tnkted/more idiots filling the thread with bullshit lists
Virtually all of our only dead player's posts were anti-breadcrumbing posts, and all refered to ace. They were pretty vehemenant too. I think CL sent rean a message saying that "if you're scum, argue against breadcrumbs" or something similar. Perhaps rean was confirming himself to Ace?
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The simple fact that Ace didn't die is suspicious enough.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 08:47 Jackal58 wrote: Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes. So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons. The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
I put some light pressure on you. Ace tells me my reason for pressure was completely stupid here: + Show Spoiler +On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. then like 12 hours later accuses you for completely different reasons. You come to the conclusion that either Ace sucks at town play or Ace and I are in a scum bandwagon together. Sounds paranoid to me. I'd still rather put pressure on Ace though.
Speaking of which: ##Vote: Ace
Jackal, who are your top suspects at the moment? There are now enough posts to at least have some suspicions...
On April 29 2011 00:45 GGQ wrote: The simple fact that Ace didn't die is suspicious enough.
...do you actually think his behavior is scummy? The fact that Ace didn't die probably means that a lot of the sleeper agents think that Ace is scum, not necessarily that Ace actually is scum.
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On April 29 2011 00:45 GGQ wrote: The simple fact that Ace didn't die is suspicious enough. Actually, as much as I think Ace is definitely a candidate for a lynch, this is a very bad reason for it. Out of the obvious top 4 players that the mafia would want to eliminate, 1 of them is gone. This does not automatically mean that the other 3 are suspicious.....
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Why is right here. I still have no idea the usefulness to town with the lists. Though, when do messages get sent? Rean was modkilled at the first lynch, which I thought hapens before any messages. Either Ace or Jackal is standing out for me, hopefully I can churn out something nasty on them.
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On April 29 2011 01:34 why wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 08:47 Jackal58 wrote: Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes. So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons. The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
I put some light pressure on you. Ace tells me my reason for pressure was completely stupid here: + Show Spoiler +On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. then like 12 hours later accuses you for completely different reasons. You come to the conclusion that either Ace sucks at town play or Ace and I are in a scum bandwagon together. Sounds paranoid to me. I'd still rather put pressure on Ace though. Speaking of which: ##Vote: AceJackal, who are your top suspects at the moment? There are now enough posts to at least have some suspicions... Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 00:45 GGQ wrote: The simple fact that Ace didn't die is suspicious enough. ...do you actually think his behavior is scummy? The fact that Ace didn't die probably means that a lot of the sleeper agents think that Ace is scum, not necessarily that Ace actually is scum.
No, I don't find his behavior particularly scummy. His plan forced action out of a lot of players that would have posted much less, and he already explained how it was helpful to town. It wasn't as earth-shaking as we might have liked, but it was a good plan that promoted activity and left us with some useful information. I read over his posts again, and they don't stand out as scum posts to me.
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+ Show Spoiler [why's posts] +On April 28 2011 23:34 why wrote: Sorry for not posting more, I've unexpectedly had to work multiple 14 hour days and haven't had time to do anything but sleep and work. I've asked for a replacement, but until that comes through I'm going to do my best to help out.
I think Ace should be the number one lynch candidate today. Here are my reasons:
Ace's plan resulted in very little information for town. It supposedly generated a DT check list by seeing who would be the most likely to be messaged if they were a sleeper. However, this obviously has very little relation to who is actually a sleeper. I think it was a lot of hoopla for not a lot of payoff, which makes me think that Ace had an alternative plan. My guess is that he is either a sleeper agent that is trying to help the CL by providing an excuse to post lists of players (which is a strategy multiple people have said they would employ were they a CL) or he is the CL himself who wants to use his list to inform people. Ace is a good player and is not above publicly pushing a plan that benefits mafia.
Also, Ace's play day 1 reminded me a lot of his play in Orgah Mafia, just sitting back and shooting down plans while not sticking his neck out too much. In that game I believe he was a survivor. When you think about it, being a survivor is almost identical to being a sleeper agent early in this game; you have no allies and your goal is primarily to survive (this obviously changes once you get a PM from the CL). To be honest, I haven't read any of Ace's games except for that one, so he may just always play this way, but it still makes me suspicious.
I'm also a little suspicious of Jackal58 still (especially given his paranoid reaction to my and Ace's pressure), but I think that may just be standard Jackal.
Zorkmid I'm not that suspicious of, even though he caused Kenpachi (who turned out town) to die over Mr. Wiggles. To say that he did this with an agenda is to say that either Zorkmid is CL or Zorkmid was the person that the CL PM'ed first. I doubt that Zorkmid was PM'ed first, as he appeared on very few of Ace's lists. If he was CL, then it seems way too brazen an attempt at influencing the vote to do without posting in the thread. Plus it was about an hour until the vote ended, so it wasn't like it was a ninja attempt.
First of all in Orgah Mafia I barely posted because I really had no idea what the hell was going on half the time. Secondly I shoot down ridiculous suggestions a lot. Maybe you should read more of my games to know this. My role PM from Orgah wasn't actually a survivor role: it was a Neutral role that could kidnap players.
Even if that was true your analysis is still wrong. You said I sat back and shot down plans in Orgah Mafia - I've been one of the most active players so far this game and I've proposed a plan. So you're evidence here is already faulty.
As for the bolded if you read my explanation twice already I've addressed this. I'm not going to quote those posts again because I honestly believe you aren't reading the game. The day started with GM's death and instead of even trying to figure something out based on that you jump immediately to me - interesting. Let's continue with the Zorkmid issue.
In fact lets keep it short. This same post has you defending Zorkmid's vote (who is replaced by bumatlarge) while accusing me with made up proof.
And you and bumatlarge both voted for me in no time. Your reasoning is a problem with my plan and some made up issues from another game. Bum's reasoning?
On April 29 2011 01:53 bumatlarge wrote: Why is right here. I still have no idea the usefulness to town with the lists. Though, when do messages get sent? Rean was modkilled at the first lynch, which I thought hapens before any messages. Either Ace or Jackal is standing out for me, hopefully I can churn out something nasty on them.
So because you don't understand it, I'm scum? :/ And what in the world does Rean being modkilled have to do with me?
On April 29 2011 01:34 why wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 08:47 Jackal58 wrote: Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes. So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons. The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
I put some light pressure on you. Ace tells me my reason for pressure was completely stupid here: + Show Spoiler +On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. then like 12 hours later accuses you for completely different reasons. You come to the conclusion that either Ace sucks at town play or Ace and I are in a scum bandwagon together. Sounds paranoid to me. I'd still rather put pressure on Ace though. Speaking of which: ##Vote: Ace
Another false post here. You didn't put any pressure on anyone. You posted some nonsense on why he was anti-town and I said that it wasn't. You accused him of being anti-town for placing a FoS on another player. I said it isn't. Now you're just being silly.
On April 29 2011 00:23 tnkted wrote:I agree with the pressure on Ace. Why? Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 01:16 Rean wrote:On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. How about you give us a reason as to why this is NOT a waste of time? How is knowing what everyone would pick in the hypothetical situation they're GF getting us anywhere close to catching scum? Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:29 Rean wrote: the fuck is this shit.
youre discussing how the gf can crumb in his messages WHEN THATS USELESS TO TOWN. seriously, we dont give a fuck how they crumb because we wont find out about it anyway if mafia is even half-decent.
and now you're even making cutesy lists on who you would message if you were the GF? STOP BEING USELESS. seriously, you people are randomly discussing things that don't get us anywhere.
fos list so far:
ace/tnkted/more idiots filling the thread with bullshit lists
Virtually all of our only dead player's posts were anti-breadcrumbing posts, and all refered to ace. They were pretty vehemenant too. I think CL sent rean a message saying that "if you're scum, argue against breadcrumbs" or something similar. Perhaps rean was confirming himself to Ace?
Explain. Those 2 posts by Rean refer to me because I was the one calling him out. Other than that I don't see how the bolded statement is true.
As of now I'm voting for bumatlarge because of the Zorkmid vote yesterday and his fast hop on to my wagon with bad reasoning. why is using shoddy evidence but bum should be smarter than that.
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Please quote an explanation of the list thing because my read-through provided me with nothing. With a valid reason to it, I have no reason to vote you.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 29 2011 01:34 why wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 08:47 Jackal58 wrote: Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes. So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons. The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
I put some light pressure on you. Ace tells me my reason for pressure was completely stupid here: + Show Spoiler +On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. then like 12 hours later accuses you for completely different reasons. You come to the conclusion that either Ace sucks at town play or Ace and I are in a scum bandwagon together. Sounds paranoid to me. I'd still rather put pressure on Ace though. Speaking of which: ##Vote: AceJackal, who are your top suspects at the moment? There are now enough posts to at least have some suspicions... Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 00:45 GGQ wrote: The simple fact that Ace didn't die is suspicious enough. ...do you actually think his behavior is scummy? The fact that Ace didn't die probably means that a lot of the sleeper agents think that Ace is scum, not necessarily that Ace actually is scum. I still don't know why I'm scummy looking to either of you. That's the only conclusion I could come to. I still think that scum are the ones posting the least in this game. GGQ,tnkted, Rean prior to being mod killed. And yourself. You say Ace may not have gotten killed because scum thinks he's scum. But if 5 scum think he's scum wouldn't a boat load of townies have been voting for him yesterday? I still say that as scum become more aware of who is on their team they will start to become more vocal. Kinda like you are.
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Ok, some thoughts:
Firstly, GM decided not to shoot last night. This is a little surprising to me given his vigilante list, that he didn't decide to shoot a lurker off it himself. I guess he figured that he would live long enough to pick a better target and just wanted to apply pressure with it. That said, I'd look at people on his vig list a little bit more, so: Eii, GGQ, why, Vain, darm. These are the people who would have felt threatened by GM because he wanted them dead. The DT list is also somewhere you could look, but to a lesser extent, because saying you want someone to die is more pressure than saying you want someone to get checked, one of those situations isn't salvageable.
I'm little surprised that Ace is still alive too, but I don't think that is a good reason to call him scum.
All game long, people have been touting him as some kind of mafia forum hero, so it would make sense that scum would want to kill him right away, right? Not necessarily.
If we look at the vote last night, there was a lot of fragmentation, so one can assume that the cell kill vote would look similar, with a lot of division. Because of this, I don't think it would take much more than something like three or so cell members feeling threatened by GM and voting for him for him to become their kill. GM was doing "analysis", pushing plans, being active, and in general trying to get information out there. He acted pro-town, and now he's dead. Ace on the other hand, didn't do much Day 1 besides his list thing, and so probably didn't seem as much of an imminent threat to the cell. So, I don't think it's that scum thinks he's scum, just that GM was posing a more realistic threat at the end of Day 1.
I don't know if anyone remembered this or not:
On April 28 2011 07:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Also, my activity tomorrow should probably increase as I just finished my last three exams over the last couple days and don't need to study anymore.
Just a thought too, as the game progresses, scum are going to become a lot more coherent. They still won't have the ability to PM each other or communicate during the day though, but they will know who each other are, and who the Cell Leader is.
What I think this means, is that starting Day 2, we need to be on the lookout for people pushing plans early and other people supporting it early. Scum can't communicate throughout the day, so the Cell leader will probably plan something in a PM during the morning, or else one scum member will push for a plan early on and hope to get the others to support him. Scum need to make their move earlier than later, and will be the most organized right as the day is beginning. As new developments pop up, scum won't be able to deal with them as a team, and will act a lot more fragmented. As such, the more town can pull together and blindside scum better, as they won't be able to actively deal with it as a team.
So look for scummy people jumping to support plans early on, and look for things that look like odd amounts of organization. Also, when new game-changing information pops up, look for people who start to act differently than they were, or who don't seem to react to it and stay stuck in what they were doing before. I think this can show us scum who are freaking out because there's no communication with their team, or scum who don't know what to do because they have no one to direct them.
why wasn't around much on Day 1, and he didn't give any sort of explanation for it until recently. Now on day 2, he shows up, and right away pushes a lynch for Ace before any other discussion has even commenced. This seems reminiscent of the bolded parts from my post. Also, why dropping Jackal completely in favor of Ace seems a little odd to me. Then add on to this that he was on GM's vig list and is giving bad reasons for scum kill choice:
##FOS: why
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On April 29 2011 05:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ok, some thoughts:
Firstly, GM decided not to shoot last night. This is a little surprising to me given his vigilante list, that he didn't decide to shoot a lurker off it himself. I guess he figured that he would live long enough to pick a better target and just wanted to apply pressure with it. That said, I'd look at people on his vig list a little bit more, so: Eii, GGQ, why, Vain, darm. These are the people who would have felt threatened by GM because he wanted them dead. The DT list is also somewhere you could look, but to a lesser extent, because saying you want someone to die is more pressure than saying you want someone to get checked, one of those situations isn't salvageable. On the vig issue. GM may have decided to not shoot after I reminded him of scums win condition. Town has to be out of players with guns. So GMs loss is really quite significant to us.
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On April 29 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 05:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ok, some thoughts:
Firstly, GM decided not to shoot last night. This is a little surprising to me given his vigilante list, that he didn't decide to shoot a lurker off it himself. I guess he figured that he would live long enough to pick a better target and just wanted to apply pressure with it. That said, I'd look at people on his vig list a little bit more, so: Eii, GGQ, why, Vain, darm. These are the people who would have felt threatened by GM because he wanted them dead. The DT list is also somewhere you could look, but to a lesser extent, because saying you want someone to die is more pressure than saying you want someone to get checked, one of those situations isn't salvageable. On the vig issue. GM may have decided to not shoot after I reminded him of scums win condition. Town has to be out of players with guns. So GMs loss is really quite significant to us.
I guess. It's only relevant though if we get in a situation where it's something like 3 town, 3 scum. Other than that, the no gun rules doesn't really have much impact on the game, because if scum outnumbers town, it's going to be pretty much impossible to win anyways.
That also doesn't make sense for why he didn't shoot though. If he thought that one of the players in his vig list were an Intelligence Agent, why would he have put them in there anyways, in case a third agent shot into them? My only explanation is that he thought that he could save his shot, and use it at a different time when the chance of his target being scum was higher. I made a mistake reading the OP when I made that post, because I didn't realize that vigs only get to shoot once. Trying to save his shot in case we get into a situation where town is outnumbered by scum instead of shooting who he thinks is scum isn't a great plan though, it seems to unlikely for it to happen and for town to scrape a win after that. Better to just shoot when you think you have a good target.
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Hi guys! iGrok will probably release this in a few minutes, but I'm replacing in for why. All suspicion should now be transferred to me.
I've only sort of been following this game, so I'll need to read through. Could somebody explain to me why i'm scummy?
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On April 29 2011 06:39 VarpuliS wrote:Hi guys! iGrok will probably release this in a few minutes, but I'm replacing in for why. All suspicion should now be transferred to me. I've only sort of been following this game, so I'll need to read through. Could somebody explain to me why i'm scummy?
You made four posts day 1, then right as day 2 starts, you jump right into trying to lynch Ace forgoing Jackal who you voted for day 1. You were also on GM's vig list, and that makes me want to watch you more closely, because GM died, and the scum voting for him obviously felt pressured by him or thought he was an asset to town, the vig list being those he most pressured.
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VarpuliS is indeed replacing out for why.
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Oh darn I was just catching up and found out i was modkilled... I totally deserve it and my apologies guys. I hope the game goes well anyway!
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On April 29 2011 03:07 bumatlarge wrote: Please quote an explanation of the list thing because my read-through provided me with nothing. With a valid reason to it, I have no reason to vote you.
um...you voted for me. lol.
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So... did the thread die? I want to type more on my new keyboard :p
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On April 29 2011 08:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So... did the thread die? I want to type more on my new keyboard :p Breadcrumb?
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On April 29 2011 09:01 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 08:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So... did the thread die? I want to type more on my new keyboard :p Breadcrumb?
No, it was my birthday a couple days ago, and I got a mech keyboard, and blue switches are really fun to type on.
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On April 29 2011 02:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 00:23 tnkted wrote:I agree with the pressure on Ace. Why? On April 26 2011 01:16 Rean wrote:On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. How about you give us a reason as to why this is NOT a waste of time? How is knowing what everyone would pick in the hypothetical situation they're GF getting us anywhere close to catching scum? On April 26 2011 00:29 Rean wrote: the fuck is this shit.
youre discussing how the gf can crumb in his messages WHEN THATS USELESS TO TOWN. seriously, we dont give a fuck how they crumb because we wont find out about it anyway if mafia is even half-decent.
and now you're even making cutesy lists on who you would message if you were the GF? STOP BEING USELESS. seriously, you people are randomly discussing things that don't get us anywhere.
fos list so far:
ace/tnkted/more idiots filling the thread with bullshit lists
Virtually all of our only dead player's posts were anti-breadcrumbing posts, and all refered to ace. They were pretty vehemenant too. I think CL sent rean a message saying that "if you're scum, argue against breadcrumbs" or something similar. Perhaps rean was confirming himself to Ace? Explain. Those 2 posts by Rean refer to me because I was the one calling him out. Other than that I don't see how the bolded statement is true.
This would be a good arguement if you hadn't looked at all of Rean's posts. Go do that. The only ones that are relevant to the game at all are posts where he is talking about how stupid breadcrumbing is. I think he was fishing for other scum when he posted:
fos list so far:
ace/tnkted/more idiots filling the thread with bullshit lists[
He thought me or you or somebody else was the CL.
On second thought, could he possibly have received a message from the CL that early in the game? CL gets to send once every morning and once every night correct? I don't think examining Rean's posts is entirely useless at this point.
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Even so there is no way for us to verify he got a message from the CL. Even if he did and was guessing about you or myself we don't have many posts of his to look at.
I still think bumatlarge is our lynch for today.
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Analysis on Jackal58
The Check
Alright initially I was just going to give an analysis and link reasons as to why Jackal was Cell Leader, but the evidence is so damning, that I figured it would be pointless to hide my identity as I become an obvious target once Jackal pops. I am an INTELLIGENCE ANALYST. I checked Jackal last night and recieved this:
Results of the investigation on Jackal58: Insufficient Information for Analysis I was already suspicious of Jackal with his potential breadcrumbing I had picked up, but I wanted to see if I could get away with just putting analysis on jackal claiming him to be Cell Leader, so that if mafia targetted me, people could pick up on that connection. BREADCRUMBS OF BREADCRUMBS! I call them Nano-Crumbs! Genius!
Well, I went through Jackal's evidence, and I found it very strong. Why not off Jackal now and destroy anything communication mafia could have from here on out? I can't really assume medic protection like in XXXVIII, because more likely then not we don't have them. If we do, I'll get to that. I am 100% going to be hit tomorrow if this is as spot-on as I think.
The Crumbs
On April 25 2011 21:38 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:40 Ace wrote: Analysis in this setup is still the same as a normal setup. The main difference here is that associating people by alignment in the beginning is much harder.
Scum still know they are Scum and that almost everyone else is Town. That shouldn't drastically altar their behavior.
I was thinking about this on my way to work Ace. (Hour + drive and I spend it thinking about Mafia. I need help.) In this setup would it not be even more beneficial for scum to lurk? Why I ask is it would seem to me that if what Wiggles said is true "scum can kill scum" and we can lynch them when they slip up what incentive do they have to post at all other than to avoid a mod kill? If they try to appear town their scum buddies can kill them. If they try to hide and skate we'll lynch them. I understand that scum still know they're scum but I believe this setup will drastically alter their behavior. As in making it almost non existent. So to that end I would like iGrok to verify Wiggles statement of scum being able to kill scum. I'm not getting that from the OP. And if that is the way it works I'm thinking we should just lynch the least active player each day. Maybe I'm thinking to much into this. Can scum hit scum at night?
Here is the first item of interest. Jackal mentions an hour long drive. Initially did not make note of it, as I do this all the time driving. But Jackal mentions it of course. A crumb like this could utilize very phew words. Car or CarTrip. He could potentially be confused with tnkted, the busdriver, so I don't think he could get away with just saying car, or something short.
On April 27 2011 08:47 Jackal58 wrote: Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes. So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons. The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
Chancing another one are we jackal? Another mention about his car ride. Oh what a lovely breadcrumb.
On April 28 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 06:28 bumatlarge wrote:Wow this is confusing, but I think I got the basic gist of the mechanics. Ace, wouldnt the name game be kinda helpful for CL to make a list and be able to point out multiple persons without naming names? And jackal is the traffic thing a breadcrumb lol? I've been reading through thread keeping my eyes open for non-thread related stuff just in case, and you spend a nice chunk on discussing traffic lol... Kinda suspicious of Ace to what he is suggesting and how it helps town. Jackal next because of the traffic, and I haven't read into anyone else, except tnkted, who will just sit in a corner sprinkling his little crumbs everywhere. Aren't we supposed to try to prevent everyone from being able to breadcrumb, not give them the best opportunities to do so? Maybe I missed key stuff, but I don't really have much time for a full analysis yet. I'm stuck in traffic It took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to. My ride home last night was brutal. It was back to the norm tonight. Just long.
In reference to me pointing it out. I suppose you could skip this, but I think jackal wants to get it noticed!
That's really all I have, but I think that's all I really need. So my dt check and these. Thats two down one to go.
The Cell
I don't really feel I need to make a huge in-depth analysis on his behavior, since it will not be strongest point, even if I was 10x the analyzer. To summarize what I make of jackal's posts, I will only to briefly skim them, even if he has a lot.
The first thing I notice is his obsession with Cell Leader. Everytime someone mentions it, he is sure to comment. Not that it is a bad thing, but it is easily his most discussed topic. There is plenty for him to discuss, but for the entire first few days it has to be about breadcrumbs. So you can imagine how he thrived when Ace brought up the lists. I will spoiler everything I find relevant below here.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 18:55 Jackal58 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Your breadcrumbing thing almost got me killed in XXXVII. A. Because you worded your question weirdly B. Because I'm not that bright. Please don't get me killed. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how. I kinda understand what you are saying but how can we identify a breadcrumb if we only see half of it? Maybe if somebody keeps using the same word or phrase repeatedly but even then it would be hard to pick out. If you have a suggestion for how we might be able to spot these please feel free to share. I have trouble spotting breadcrumbs when I know what I'm supposed to be looking for. On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. On April 25 2011 22:04 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:53 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. If you can't think of one it's in my best interest not to share, because maybe the cell leader cannot think of one aswell. Why do you want me to share it? So we would know what to look for. I hadn't considered what the cell leader may or may not be capable of thinking of. On April 26 2011 00:53 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:48 GMarshal wrote:On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. Interestingly enough do you mind if I ask you a question? Why are these lists useful? I'd like to hear what reasoning went behind asking us to post these. First thought that crossed my mind is he's the cell leader looking for us to do his breadcrumbing for him. But I'm willing to play along to see where he was going. On April 26 2011 00:32 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. I think I disagree with that. I think scum are doing a huge wtf do I do atm. It will be the end of day two at the earliest before they would all know who the GF is. That's assuming 4 sleepers. What do they do in the meantime? Would seem to me they'd have to pretty much hide. With possibly 1/3 of the players having a scum role they run a one in three chance of killing one of their team mates. I think it is most likely that we will see a players activity level increase a bit after he has been contacted by his Leader but even then he most likely will only know 1 member. I think I'm liking towns chances in this the more I think about it. On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. On April 29 2011 09:01 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 08:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So... did the thread die? I want to type more on my new keyboard :p Breadcrumb?
Yay for Jackal's obsession!
On April 26 2011 06:22 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 06:12 Ace wrote: That doesn't mean anything. Posting frequency is just as much affected by what's being posted by other players and if people are directly asking you questions. That's a waste of time. I think if you are scum in this set up you are forced into hiding until you know who is on your team. I am town. I have nothing to hide from town. My biggest let down would be to become a mislynch for town. Lynches are the only means we have to win. Scum will target pro town at night. I have no control over that. If I get shot that just means scum thought I was doing a good job. Scum can't afford to post much. If they attempt to appear too much like town they run the risk of being killed by their own teammates at night. They do not yet possess the knowledge to bandwagon lynches so they are on their own in that respect. Not to mention running the risk of lynching their own. Or slipping up and getting lynched themselves. I really think activity levels will tell a story when this game is over. Just my opinion.
Another thing to note is Jackal and Ace's relationship this game. Ace put jackal on his list, but jackal did not do the same. I'd assume Ace would be very selective with his list, but Jackal seems slightly out of place. I believe Ace has already identified jackal as the Cell Leader, and he hasn't said anything because Ace is a Sleeper!
On April 25 2011 23:28 Jackal58 wrote: My 3 would be tnkted
Tackster
GMarshall
My messages to all 3 would be from shared game experiences
tnkted would be a simple one My beloved. He would know exactly who sent it.
Tackster would be just as easy. You're easiest. He also would know who it was from.
GMarshall would be a bit more difficult but it would refer to LSB's Clues and Puzzles game where we were both scum together and LSBs first clus was basically Jackal is scum. I'd have to think about how I wrote it but it would allude to that.
All of these are fun and all but basically what I'm seeing from all of these is the CL can reveal himself to cell members one at a time. Does nothing for each cell member to id each other. For that to happen something has to be left in the thread.
GM died and tackster was modkilled, so I'm fairly certain tnkted is not an agent. Jackal is very opposed to him and consistently berates him for his breadcrumbs, possibly trying to set tnk as the cell leader instead. In fact he makes a tnk analysis! Wooo thanks for making this easy jackal!
On April 26 2011 23:37 Jackal58 wrote:We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these. That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him. Let's start with this one. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote: I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.
I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok... So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. And then continued again: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts. He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it. Now this post: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells? I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do? And lastly Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get. I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted. Sorry twinkles.
Things I gather: 1) Jackal knows tnk is a power roled blue. 2) Jackal is definitely trying to set tnkted as a lynch target 3) If Jackal succeeds, is eliminates a blue and gets a mislynch. Yay for jackal!
That's about what I got. Also, here is some funny stuff. Just sayin if this is right, then I called it first.
On April 26 2011 08:01 Jackal58 wrote: Happy birthday Mr. Wiggles.
On April 26 2011 08:06 Ace wrote: Happy Birthday Wiggles.
Impervious can you list your 3 players?
And Ace posts right after. Ace defintely knows Jackal is CL lololololol, and I think ace was trying to identify if jackal was pointing wiggles out as another agent. That would be hilarious. (Tackster said happy birthday too! But he doesn't count lololol)
On April 29 2011 09:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 09:01 Jackal58 wrote:On April 29 2011 08:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So... did the thread die? I want to type more on my new keyboard :p Breadcrumb? No, it was my birthday a couple days ago, and I got a mech keyboard, and blue switches are really fun to type on.
Oh happy birthday wiggles! Im sure jackal wished you happy birthday in that message he sent you as well. So like, does mafia want to concede now, or do they want to make this enjoyable for me?
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On April 29 2011 10:07 Ace wrote: Even so there is no way for us to verify he got a message from the CL. Even if he did and was guessing about you or myself we don't have many posts of his to look at.
I still think bumatlarge is our lynch for today.
Cha-ching!
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I'm tending to agree with Ace here. Zorkmid was even more aggressive and spammy than last time I played with him, and the ragequit while under pressure is really strange. I just don't get why a townie would do something like that.
I'm sorry, Batman.
##Vote: bumatlarge
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On April 29 2011 11:06 VarpuliS wrote: I'm tending to agree with Ace here. Zorkmid was even more aggressive and spammy than last time I played with him, and the ragequit while under pressure is really strange. I just don't get why a townie would do something like that.
I'm sorry, Batman.
##Vote: bumatlarge
Nah it's cool bro. While getting lynched would be really whack of town, it would cater to my selfish desires. Plus I'll be busy over the weekend, so I'm kinda planning on dying now. Kinda glad zorky gave me that role.
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goddamnit he ninja'd an analysis while i was typing and roleclaimed dt. That could explain things. for now, I'm convinced.
Thank you, Batman.
##Unvote: bumatlarge
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bum that is some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen. You are REALLY trying to warp the fabric of reality there. Either way I'm calling bs on your claim:
When the day started and why claimed I was scum you sided with him and voted for me as a lynch candidate. Not once did you mention anything about Jackal.
When I refuted his post against me all of a sudden you come out with a claim that Jackal is scum - even though your investigation turns up insufficient. Like I said before this would be well and good because you have to take a chance but the fact that you voted for me when the day started kind of kills this proof.
If you knew Jackal was scum why would you vote for me?
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No problem citizen, but remember your local law enforcementz are teh real an heroes.
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On April 29 2011 11:13 Ace wrote: bum that is some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen. You are REALLY trying to warp the fabric of reality there. Either way I'm calling bs on your claim:
When the day started and why claimed I was scum you sided with him and voted for me as a lynch candidate. Not once did you mention anything about Jackal.
When I refuted his post against me all of a sudden you come out with a claim that Jackal is scum - even though your investigation turns up insufficient. Like I said before this would be well and good because you have to take a chance but the fact that you voted for me when the day started kind of kills this proof.
If you knew Jackal was scum why would you vote for me?
Playing dumb was hard man, give me some credit>>>
Already deduced you were scum bro, hopefully I could have saved some blue face and helped why get you lynched, but he subbed out. If I could get another check off on wiggles or someone while not sticking my dick out for mafia to chop off, why not take it?
I like how you call my logic dumb and then reference nothing. You don't think I know that game fool?
I'd be impressed if you take the lynch off of jackalz and put it on to me, because "DT should always be lynched first" in this situation, right Ace?
But even then, I could probably be the Cell Leader trying to buy some more days for sleepers to get more acquainted, (couldn't be agent, cuz jackal could easily be an agent or the real CL as well) so I would be totally cool with myself getting lynched, because it would be GG once I pop. In fact, I would totally do this as CL, expect I would leave out the part where I would get lynched first.
WIFOM you say? I take Wifom, and I treat it to a nice dinner, then I take that WIFOM home and I make it my bitch. I don't call back.
Maybe I should vote for myself? So that you don't get credit for doing this again lololol... But seriously jackal should get lynched. Town can make that easy decision without Ace calling it retarded.
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Statistically, it's a far better choice to lynch anyone who got "insufficient analysis" than to try to check them again.
I say we go for it. Right now. Maybe get Ace tomorrow?
Although, bum, I don't like how you're already revealing yourself..... I don't think you were in any danger yet, so it seems unnecessary at this point.
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Oops, I'll forget I saw that.
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Oh wait hahaha, Ace I already caught you man.
Ace sees bum claim blue, already suspicious of both bum and jackal, he makes the logical assumption that it would be best to lynch jackal first, since lylo is not here, nor will it be until a day after both jackal and bum are dead. If jackal is CL, yay go town. If bum is lying, lynch him the day after.
Ace sees bum claim blue, knows jackal is CL, oh fuck bum needs to die before jackal so we can leave town while buying mafia a free hit from lynching bum and giving our CL another day.
Now it would be one thing if you considered both options as green, and leaned towards lynching me, as jackal as CL would give you a bad image, but it would be a decent trade.
On April 29 2011 11:13 Ace wrote: bum that is some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen. You are REALLY trying to warp the fabric of reality there. Either way I'm calling bs on your claim:
When the day started and why claimed I was scum you sided with him and voted for me as a lynch candidate. Not once did you mention anything about Jackal.
When I refuted his post against me all of a sudden you come out with a claim that Jackal is scum - even though your investigation turns up insufficient. Like I said before this would be well and good because you have to take a chance but the fact that you voted for me when the day started kind of kills this proof.
If you knew Jackal was scum why would you vote for me?
You instantly -let me repeat that- INSTANTLY assume I am lying. There is no consideration there. I know you as town would entertain the notion that I am blue for a bit, even if you made sure that your opinion of me lying was made known in your first post. But you know jackal is CL, so that is not your thought process. Have some other scum post now, I'm on a roll.
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On April 29 2011 11:31 Impervious wrote: Statistically, it's a far better choice to lynch anyone who got "insufficient analysis" than to try to check them again.
I say we go for it. Right now. Maybe get Ace tomorrow?
Although, bum, I don't like how you're already revealing yourself..... I don't think you were in any danger yet, so it seems unnecessary at this point.
If I had posted the exact same thing without the claim, do you think that I would not die tomorrow if jackal popped CL?
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On April 29 2011 11:31 Impervious wrote: Statistically, it's a far better choice to lynch anyone who got "insufficient analysis" than to try to check them again.
I say we go for it. Right now. Maybe get Ace tomorrow?
Although, bum, I don't like how you're already revealing yourself..... I don't think you were in any danger yet, so it seems unnecessary at this point. Agreed. Ace should be a prime dt check target for tonight. Either him or bum. Don't bother checking Jackal, chances are it's a waste of your action.
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I'm flattered Bum. But I'm not that smart. Claiming DT? Really? You're not that smart either. Go ahead and lynch me. I 110% guarantee you that you won't disrupt anything about scums communications. I will be seriously pissed that I got lynched on a 25% RNG return. I am not scum. I am not CL.
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Bum's claim feels off to me, partly because i was already suspecting Zorkmid and voted for him yesterday. But looking at it logically, I don't see bum as scum claiming to trade himself one for one with a townie here, especially in this game where he can't even be sure jackal is town unless bum is the CL. Most likely the claim is true, but it still feels really risky to me to claim dt with no protects and not even a confirmed check. I'm working under the assumption that the claim is true.
The analysis on jackal seems solid enough, and jackal hasn't been playing like his usual town style. It could be his attempt to form a more rational and less tunneling style as he claims, or he could be mafia. He keeps mentioning that mafia are likely to the ones with few posts, while he keeps posting without saying much of relevance. His one analysis of a player is full of self-doubt and not followed strongly at all, which isn't like jackal.
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On April 29 2011 12:33 GGQ wrote: Bum's claim feels off to me, partly because i was already suspecting Zorkmid and voted for him yesterday. But looking at it logically, I don't see bum as scum claiming to trade himself one for one with a townie here, especially in this game where he can't even be sure jackal is town unless bum is the CL. Most likely the claim is true, but it still feels really risky to me to claim dt with no protects and not even a confirmed check. I'm working under the assumption that the claim is true.
The analysis on jackal seems solid enough, and jackal hasn't been playing like his usual town style. It could be his attempt to form a more rational and less tunneling style as he claims, or he could be mafia. He keeps mentioning that mafia are likely to the ones with few posts, while he keeps posting without saying much of relevance. His one analysis of a player is full of self-doubt and not followed strongly at all, which isn't like jackal. It is off. It's so far off it's fucking ridiculous. I try to get better at this and all my efforts get me lynched. Fuck me.
Sorry Bum. But your efforts are in vain. You have outed yourself. You think I'm the CL. Town loses out due to a 25% chance of whimsy. Go ahead and lynch me. You will not disrupt scums communications and we lose a DT. Sounds like a fair trade to me. Gurglearrrrgggghhhhh. I'm going back to tunneling. Fuck this shit.
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On April 29 2011 11:35 bumatlarge wrote:Oh wait hahaha, Ace I already caught you man. Ace sees bum claim blue, already suspicious of both bum and jackal, he makes the logical assumption that it would be best to lynch jackal first, since lylo is not here, nor will it be until a day after both jackal and bum are dead. If jackal is CL, yay go town. If bum is lying, lynch him the day after. Ace sees bum claim blue, knows jackal is CL, oh fuck bum needs to die before jackal so we can leave town while buying mafia a free hit from lynching bum and giving our CL another day. Now it would be one thing if you considered both options as green, and leaned towards lynching me, as jackal as CL would give you a bad image, but it would be a decent trade. Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 11:13 Ace wrote: bum that is some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen. You are REALLY trying to warp the fabric of reality there. Either way I'm calling bs on your claim:
When the day started and why claimed I was scum you sided with him and voted for me as a lynch candidate. Not once did you mention anything about Jackal.
When I refuted his post against me all of a sudden you come out with a claim that Jackal is scum - even though your investigation turns up insufficient. Like I said before this would be well and good because you have to take a chance but the fact that you voted for me when the day started kind of kills this proof.
If you knew Jackal was scum why would you vote for me? You instantly -let me repeat that- INSTANTLY assume I am lying. There is no consideration there. I know you as town would entertain the notion that I am blue for a bit, even if you made sure that your opinion of me lying was made known in your first post. But you know jackal is CL, so that is not your thought process. Have some other scum post now, I'm on a roll.
stop it. I already know you're lying. Like I said look at how the day started:
On April 29 2011 01:53 bumatlarge wrote: Why is right here. I still have no idea the usefulness to town with the lists. Though, when do messages get sent? Rean was modkilled at the first lynch, which I thought hapens before any messages. Either Ace or Jackal is standing out for me, hopefully I can churn out something nasty on them.
This was within 3 hours of the day starting. Even with why's silly logic on how I could be scum that I posted you immediately agreed to it.
From the voting thread:
On April 29 2011 01:54 bumatlarge wrote: ##Vote: Ace
On April 29 2011 03:07 bumatlarge wrote: Please quote an explanation of the list thing because my read-through provided me with nothing. With a valid reason to it, I have no reason to vote you.
You said you have no reason to vote for me although you already did. It is now 7 hours into the day. At this point 'why' hasn't followed up on his accusation (subbed out) and neither has his replacement. The wagon's momentum to get me lynched stopped here. At this point you allegedly know your information from last night but still have not revealed it.
7 hours later you drop a dung bomb. In your post you make up some stuff about me bread crumbing to Jackal because I posted after him - come on. You even mention that you did not get a result but that Jackal must be the Cell Leader and I'm breadcrumbing to him and your made up situation that we have a relationship. What relationship?
You're grasping. You made up a situation that doesn't exist and we should lynch you for it.
GGq, Impervious don't you think it's a little weird that bumatlarge accused TWO people today, switched his vote, and is allegedly an Intelligence Agent that didn't get a guilty result but is sure both are scum? Think logically about all of this. This guy is lying for sure.
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Bum, your logic is bad.
Firstly, you call Jackal the Cell Leader without even considering the possibility that there's a 25% chance that he would show up as "Insufficient" if he were anything else.
Alright initially I was just going to give an analysis and link reasons as to why Jackal was Cell Leader, but the evidence is so damning, that I figured it would be pointless to hide my identity as I become an obvious target once Jackal pops. I am an INTELLIGENCE ANALYST.
Right away you assume that he is the Cell Leader, and decide to make a bad claim rather than just push an analysis.
Let me explain why I think it's a bad claim and that you might be lying.
Let's imagine you are a DT, and you checked Jackal, and got an "insufficient for analysis".
You would then decide to build a case against him so that you can try to get him lynched.
If you don't claim:
-You make a case, if it's strong, you get him lynched. -If he flips red, you might survive the night if scum hit someone else instead cause they just think you're a green who analyzed -If he flips town, you were wrong and it was RNG. People will be suspicious of you, but you'll most likely survive the night
If you claim:
-You make a case with a claim, Jackal gets lynched -If he flips red, you die, scum know who you are -If he flips town, you die, scum know who you are
It does not make sense to claim here. By claiming, you assure scum will hit you 100% rather than having any chance to live by not claiming. You also received an insufficient for analysis, not a Red return, so that even makes a claim weaker, because there's a chance you got the return on a town anyways, it's not a sure thing.
So, I think you're claim can be fake for two reasons.
1. You don't mention the probability of it being wrong, so that makes me think that you just forgot about it. A real DT would keep in mind that there's RNG for everyone, and that doesn't just happen for the GF. By forgetting to even mention that until later when someone else brings it up, it makes me believe that you forgot about it in the first place, i.e. you might not be a DT.
2. The claim makes no sense. You say you claimed because you would have died anyways. That only makes sense again, if you think that the ONLY person who brings back "insufficient" is GF and not anyone else. If you were DT, and Jackal flips green, scum wouldn't hit you. If he flipped red, then you're not as likely to live, but they might let you if they're trying to snipe blues or something. Claiming makes it a 100% chance that you would die.
Now, all your "breadcrumb" things are terrible and a null-tell.
It makes no sense for scum to try to breadcrumb into the thread unless it's to direct other scum and communicate plans. Crumbing in the thread to identify yourself in PM is just stupid. So you're saying that Jackal bread crumbed about driving, and my birthday, instead of just saying, "I'm OPEC, clues and puzzles", "Steelers, profile", "Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, wiki", which would be easily recognizable as being him? Then the thing about my birthday isn't a tell either. It's normal when it's someone's birthday, to say, "Happy Birthday". As well, you missed Vain wishing me one later, so was that him just picking up on the crumb later? You're looking too far into that, unless you think Vain, Ace, and Jackal are all scum breadcrumbing, and tack was just an innocent bystander.
You also say that you don't want to analyze Jackal, because:
I don't really feel I need to make a huge in-depth analysis on his behavior, since it will not be strongest point, even if I was 10x the analyzer. To summarize what I make of jackal's posts, I will only to briefly skim them, even if he has a lot.
Right here, you say, "Jackal doesn't look like scum from his posting". You're relying on your supposed "DT information", to be the decider for his lynch. However, if you were a DT, you would look at your result and then go over his posts. If he didn't look scummy to you, you would decide that it was RNG. Just claiming, without strong analysis, with the chance that he's town, is just bad play.
I think you're smarter than that and would think things through if you were a DT. So, I think you're lying.
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Still swinging for me based on me trying to keep out of a blue meta? You don't have a decent explanation for a scummy list that does nothing for town except look for "keywords" that were never going to be used.
You think I'm gonna pull my hair-out in the thread trying to point to jackal without revealing why I know? As soon as he pops I'm dead, to reason to WIFOM that.
And I said the relationship was possible in my analysis. You've confirmed it now. Don't make yourself the target here when you are obviously not. Jackal has taken the proper response, I feel. As CL, he had a choice to help bash my claim with you or say he has to be lynched in hopes for sympathy. I think Jackal as town would take the sympathy course as well, because ultimately if we mislynch him and mafia doesn't hit me, I get a free check, get lynched, and leave town with something. This is all if I am dead wrong about jackal, we hit a 25% hiccup and town does what I say. I find this all highly unlikely, and it leaves us with a confirmed town or confirmed scum (unless I were to hit that 25% again). If jackal agrees to this, then I'll feel really bad for lynching him! But I'm willing to take that blow, FOR THE TOWN.
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You're willing to take the blow of feeling bad? Very generous of you.
Also, something I forgot to mention before. You seem to think that lynching the cell leader will remove the scum's ability to communicate, but scum gets a new cell leader chosen, so... yeah.
To Ace and Wiggles, what I can't get around is why he would trade himself 1 for 1 with jackal if he's scum. If it's a fake claim, what is he trying to accomplish here?
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If he's lying about being a DT the real DT might claim or outright oppose him. Once he's lynched his team would know who's the actual DT via posts in the thread and shoot him. With the "Vigi" dead and the "DT" dead the 2 listed Town power roles would be dead and we'd virtually be plain vanilla townies vs Scum with no other leads.
Realize he's not trading himself. Remember his analysis wasn't that Jackal is scum - it's that he got no information from the check. This way if Jackal flips town he can always say well it was a mistake.
bum isn't trading himself 1 for 1 here - he's setting up a position that has an out in case Jackal flips town or he gets lynched. He's made up a bunch of hypothetical links here. If he didn't start the day off attacking me I'd believe him.
If you believe his claim is legit then answer this for me: Why would he accuse me, then Jackal? If he is really the detective wouldn't he just out Jackal instead of waiting half the day to start?
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EBWOP:
That should read be more inclined to believe him.
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I thought I could get away with not claiming today. I had reason to believe through my gut that you are an agent with jackal as cell leader. Why had the same feeling as well. Having you get lynched means I didn't have to waste a check, means jackal would either be certain CL or less likely CL and means I had another check on other people I could have done analysis on. I was hoping why would build a good case on you, take the hit as green, hopefully, and I could get in another check. I was planning on claiming if the lynch wasn't going on jackal or ace. It wasn't til after my analysis/claim that I saw you were shifting it on to me.
On April 29 2011 13:35 GGQ wrote: Also, something I forgot to mention before. You seem to think that lynching the cell leader will remove the scum's ability to communicate, but scum gets a new cell leader chosen, so... yeah.
Fuck.
Still, lynching me doesn't matter. That's an alternative. Ace is just making either another one of his failed assessments, just like pyr in penalty, or he's scum trying to make this seem like one of his failed assessments. Jackal popping now or tomorrow would let me know which. If I don't get lynched today I can get another check off if scum doesn't kill me, which I don't see why they wouldn't.
It's up to the rest of the town, I've done my bit. I'll respond to wiggles in a moment.
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On April 29 2011 13:08 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Bum, your logic is bad.
Firstly, you call Jackal the Cell Leader without even considering the possibility that there's a 25% chance that he would show up as "Insufficient" if he were anything else.
I didn't take it into consideration, because I believe I found his breadcrumbs, and a decent composition of jackal's general behavior.
Show nested quote +Alright initially I was just going to give an analysis and link reasons as to why Jackal was Cell Leader, but the evidence is so damning, that I figured it would be pointless to hide my identity as I become an obvious target once Jackal pops. I am an INTELLIGENCE ANALYST. Right away you assume that he is the Cell Leader, and decide to make a bad claim rather than just push an analysis.
Because I've based it on the insufficient and the breadcrumbs. He isn't anything else. He's CL.
Let me explain why I think it's a bad claim and that you might be lying.
Let's imagine you are a DT, and you checked Jackal, and got an "insufficient for analysis".
You would then decide to build a case against him so that you can try to get him lynched.
If you don't claim:
-You make a case, if it's strong, you get him lynched. -If he flips red, you might survive the night if scum hit someone else instead cause they just think you're a green who analyzed -If he flips town, you were wrong and it was RNG. People will be suspicious of you, but you'll most likely survive the night
If you claim:
-You make a case with a claim, Jackal gets lynched -If he flips red, you die, scum know who you are -If he flips town, you die, scum know who you are
It does not make sense to claim here. By claiming, you assure scum will hit you 100% rather than having any chance to live by not claiming. You also received an insufficient for analysis, not a Red return, so that even makes a claim weaker, because there's a chance you got the return on a town anyways, it's not a sure thing.
I'm sold on Jackal being the CL. I don't really have a doubt in my mind that he couldn't be. I've found everything I was looking for with his posts, a scum who knows who the other scum are, and is trying to clue them in. I claimed because it's easier then pushing town onto your analysis. I know its sounds lazy, but I got a blue role, and im not gonna take the 1% chance scum doesnt hit me and get another check. This way I skimp on really pointing out exactly how scummy jackal is, when I can just add in "Oh aside from the analysis I did, there is a 75% chance he's CL and 25% he aint, not taking analysis into account." Sorry, I'm busy, gonna take the easy road
So, I think you're claim can be fake for two reasons.
1. You don't mention the probability of it being wrong, so that makes me think that you just forgot about it. A real DT would keep in mind that there's RNG for everyone, and that doesn't just happen for the GF. By forgetting to even mention that until later when someone else brings it up, it makes me believe that you forgot about it in the first place, i.e. you might not be a DT.
If I'm wrong, which I really feel I am not, Scum will not hit me, I will give you a confirmed town or confirmed scum if you lynch me. 7% of that happening? Well that is higher then how I feel on jackal so according to you it will happen. So I'm not taking it into account. I've added too many factors that conclude it is right, and I have a back-up on the less then 1% I am wrong. That's how I feel, so yes I guess I would forget about that.
2. The claim makes no sense. You say you claimed because you would have died anyways. That only makes sense again, if you think that the ONLY person who brings back "insufficient" is GF and not anyone else. If you were DT, and Jackal flips green, scum wouldn't hit you. If he flipped red, then you're not as likely to live, but they might let you if they're trying to snipe blues or something. Claiming makes it a 100% chance that you would die.
Less then 1%. Thats how I feel. Doesn't matter what other people think, it was my assessment to make, and my claim to make. He is not a sleeper agent. He is Cell Leader. If he is sleeper agent, I would suggest town treat it no different then as if he popped town.
Now, all your "breadcrumb" things are terrible and a null-tell.
It makes no sense for scum to try to breadcrumb into the thread unless it's to direct other scum and communicate plans. Crumbing in the thread to identify yourself in PM is just stupid. So you're saying that Jackal bread crumbed about driving, and my birthday, instead of just saying, "I'm OPEC, clues and puzzles", "Steelers, profile", "Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, wiki", which would be easily recognizable as being him? Then the thing about my birthday isn't a tell either. It's normal when it's someone's birthday, to say, "Happy Birthday". As well, you missed Vain wishing me one later, so was that him just picking up on the crumb later? You're looking too far into that, unless you think Vain, Ace, and Jackal are all scum breadcrumbing, and tack was just an innocent bystander.
CarTrip, is much shorter, where he could add in "hpyBday" Then it allows for more letters, and I think he's successfully shed some light for scum. I'm treating the happy birthday thing as a funny little sidenote. I thought you would just shrug it off, but I'll take note of your concern I connected ace and jackal from other things.
You also say that you don't want to analyze Jackal, because: Show nested quote +I don't really feel I need to make a huge in-depth analysis on his behavior, since it will not be strongest point, even if I was 10x the analyzer. To summarize what I make of jackal's posts, I will only to briefly skim them, even if he has a lot. Right here, you say, "Jackal doesn't look like scum from his posting". You're relying on your supposed "DT information", to be the decider for his lynch. However, if you were a DT, you would look at your result and then go over his posts. If he didn't look scummy to you, you would decide that it was RNG. Just claiming, without strong analysis, with the chance that he's town, is just bad play.
And where the fuck do I say he isn't scummy? I say the breadcrumbs+the insufficient are plenty to convince me. I don't really need to his behavior to convict him, but it worked out that way in the end once you read his posts. DID YOU READ THE ANALYSIS, I WENT OVER HIS POSTS. I skimmed then and said I got the gist of his Cell Leader posts, because if I read everything he posted on that and made a comment on each I would still be writing the analysis. NOT ME SORRY LOL. And its my supposed DT info and the crumbs! Without the crumbs then you're right its just a 75% guess and a happy birthday. (which it isnt READ IT AGAIN FFFF)
Disregarding my analysis because I say my information (and crumbs) are stronger is obnoxiously scummy of you wiggles.
I think you're smarter than that and would think things through if you were a DT. So, I think you're lying.
You thought wrong sir. Thanks for making me take actual note of you. Would you have still responded the same way if I didn't include you?
Someone aside from the magnificent three care to call me a blatant liar?
Also, a tiny little smidge of a note, it's definitely not the end of the world for scum if they get the wrong assumption from a message. Hypothetically, if the HpyBDay was a crumb, and tackster was alive and wiggles/ace thought he was scum for some reason, that most likely will not effect the scheme of things. There are only a handful of situations involving tackser claiming or jackal contradicting himself. Both of which would be hilarious.
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On April 29 2011 13:41 Ace wrote: If he's lying about being a DT the real DT might claim or outright oppose him. Once he's lynched his team would know who's the actual DT via posts in the thread and shoot him. With the "Vigi" dead and the "DT" dead the 2 listed Town power roles would be dead and we'd virtually be plain vanilla townies vs Scum with no other leads.
Realize he's not trading himself. Remember his analysis wasn't that Jackal is scum - it's that he got no information from the check. This way if Jackal flips town he can always say well it was a mistake.
bum isn't trading himself 1 for 1 here - he's setting up a position that has an out in case Jackal flips town or he gets lynched. He's made up a bunch of hypothetical links here. If he didn't start the day off attacking me I'd believe him.
If you believe his claim is legit then answer this for me: Why would he accuse me, then Jackal? If he is really the detective wouldn't he just out Jackal instead of waiting half the day to start?
No just no. If Im wrong on jackal, lynch me. "well bum ur town shouldnt lynch u if r" nope i got info then unless scum hit me.
And no DT should claim, wtf. If there is another he keeps his mouth shut because he would cause unnecessary confusion in a straightforward situation. I GET TO CONFIRM FIRST OTHER DT. YOU SHOULD HAVE CLAIMED IF YOU WANTED TO CONFIRM FIRST.
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On April 29 2011 14:09 bumatlarge wrote:I thought I could get away with not claiming today. I had reason to believe through my gut that you are an agent with jackal as cell leader. Why had the same feeling as well. Having you get lynched means I didn't have to waste a check, means jackal would either be certain CL or less likely CL and means I had another check on other people I could have done analysis on. I was hoping why would build a good case on you, take the hit as green, hopefully, and I could get in another check. I was planning on claiming if the lynch wasn't going on jackal or ace. It wasn't til after my analysis/claim that I saw you were shifting it on to me. Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 13:35 GGQ wrote: Also, something I forgot to mention before. You seem to think that lynching the cell leader will remove the scum's ability to communicate, but scum gets a new cell leader chosen, so... yeah. Fuck. Still, lynching me doesn't matter. That's an alternative. Ace is just making either another one of his failed assessments, just like pyr in penalty, or he's scum trying to make this seem like one of his failed assessments. Jackal popping now or tomorrow would let me know which. If I don't get lynched today I can get another check off if scum doesn't kill me, which I don't see why they wouldn't. It's up to the rest of the town, I've done my bit. I'll respond to wiggles in a moment. Alright, let me try to make sense of all of this. First, I stated previously how claiming DT early was a terrible move for town because there are no medics in this game and possibly 5 mafia. Bum seems to realise this, but he hasn't tried nearly hard enough to lynch jackal. He claimed DT 7 hours into the day and did not even try to make a case for jackal. Also, trying to link ace to jackal makes no sense to me. As I've stated before CL would have to be really dense having to relly on the thread to comunicate with his agents. The way ace is posting especially on day one only makes sense to me as CL or townie. He drawing the stoplight too much onto himself and is begging for a DT check. Then bum claim in the above post doesn't make any sense either because he did not even wait to see how town would react before claiming. Only a few of us have expressed their opinion so far and this seems a bit hasty.
If I was the DT, why would I take such a huge gambit? Isn't making a case for jackal and seing the town's reaction first the safest and best move? I've looked at jackal's posts and they seem too careless and not well thought out. I don't know about jackal's previous meta, but looking only at this game I don't feel like he's likely to be scum.
Also I have strong reason to believe bum (zorkmid) is scum. I've already made my acusations and you can read them on my posts on day1 and night1. Zork has stated several times that I tunneled him on the previous game and that's outright a lie. I never acused him of being scum nor voted for him even once. Since no one has the time to check that thread let me quote one of the posts I've made day1 on the last game:
On April 16 2011 19:31 sandroba wrote: Well, I particularly think zorkmid is town because of the following: Zorkmid analised me while I was posting analisys of scholeosis so if both zorkmid and scholeosis were mafia scholeosis wouldn't try to make him a supect. It only makes sense to me if zorkmid and scholeosis are both town or scholeosis is mafia and zorkmid is town. I'm going to follow my gut instinc that they are both town for now.If zorkmid is mafia and scholeosis is town zorkmid would know that and wouldn't mind lynching him so there was no need to pressure me. There is no way they are both mafia as they wouldn't try to buss each other so early in the game. So I'm leaning towards zorkmid being town and I don't know for sure about scholeosis. ##Unvote ##Vote: Senj
I can't see a way how bum could possibly be DT, so that makes him scum.
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Ah sandroba for real? Man, I can't really say they are all scum on a mission
If it's what town chooses, I'll take it.
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On April 29 2011 14:52 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 13:08 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Bum, your logic is bad.
Firstly, you call Jackal the Cell Leader without even considering the possibility that there's a 25% chance that he would show up as "Insufficient" if he were anything else. I didn't take it into consideration, because I believe I found his breadcrumbs, and a decent composition of jackal's general behavior.
Again, he doesn't need to lay public breadcrumbs.
Show nested quote +Alright initially I was just going to give an analysis and link reasons as to why Jackal was Cell Leader, but the evidence is so damning, that I figured it would be pointless to hide my identity as I become an obvious target once Jackal pops. I am an INTELLIGENCE ANALYST. Right away you assume that he is the Cell Leader, and decide to make a bad claim rather than just push an analysis. Because I've based it on the insufficient and the breadcrumbs. He isn't anything else. He's CL.
I still think the "breadcrumbs" are worthless.
Show nested quote +Let me explain why I think it's a bad claim and that you might be lying.
Let's imagine you are a DT, and you checked Jackal, and got an "insufficient for analysis".
You would then decide to build a case against him so that you can try to get him lynched.
If you don't claim:
-You make a case, if it's strong, you get him lynched. -If he flips red, you might survive the night if scum hit someone else instead cause they just think you're a green who analyzed -If he flips town, you were wrong and it was RNG. People will be suspicious of you, but you'll most likely survive the night
If you claim:
-You make a case with a claim, Jackal gets lynched -If he flips red, you die, scum know who you are -If he flips town, you die, scum know who you are
It does not make sense to claim here. By claiming, you assure scum will hit you 100% rather than having any chance to live by not claiming. You also received an insufficient for analysis, not a Red return, so that even makes a claim weaker, because there's a chance you got the return on a town anyways, it's not a sure thing. I'm sold on Jackal being the CL. I don't really have a doubt in my mind that he couldn't be. I've found everything I was looking for with his posts, a scum who knows who the other scum are, and is trying to clue them in. I claimed because it's easier then pushing town onto your analysis. I know its sounds lazy, but I got a blue role, and im not gonna take the 1% chance scum doesnt hit me and get another check. This way I skimp on really pointing out exactly how scummy jackal is, when I can just add in "Oh aside from the analysis I did, there is a 75% chance he's CL and 25% he aint, not taking analysis into account." Sorry, I'm busy, gonna take the easy road
There isn't a 75% chance he's CL, it's about 1/5 strictly based on probability. Also, where is he "trying to clue people in"?
Show nested quote +So, I think you're claim can be fake for two reasons.
1. You don't mention the probability of it being wrong, so that makes me think that you just forgot about it. A real DT would keep in mind that there's RNG for everyone, and that doesn't just happen for the GF. By forgetting to even mention that until later when someone else brings it up, it makes me believe that you forgot about it in the first place, i.e. you might not be a DT. If I'm wrong, which I really feel I am not, Scum will not hit me, I will give you a confirmed town or confirmed scum if you lynch me. 7% of that happening? Well that is higher then how I feel on jackal so according to you it will happen. So I'm not taking it into account. I've added too many factors that conclude it is right, and I have a back-up on the less then 1% I am wrong. That's how I feel, so yes I guess I would forget about that.
What are you talking about, scum won't hit you? You just claimed that you're a DT, so now you're saying that if Jackal is green cause of RNG scum will just give you another free check? Also, what are all these percentages?
Show nested quote +2. The claim makes no sense. You say you claimed because you would have died anyways. That only makes sense again, if you think that the ONLY person who brings back "insufficient" is GF and not anyone else. If you were DT, and Jackal flips green, scum wouldn't hit you. If he flipped red, then you're not as likely to live, but they might let you if they're trying to snipe blues or something. Claiming makes it a 100% chance that you would die. Less then 1%. Thats how I feel. Doesn't matter what other people think, it was my assessment to make, and my claim to make. He is not a sleeper agent. He is Cell Leader. If he is sleeper agent, I would suggest town treat it no different then as if he popped town.
This has nothing to do with what other people think, and I don't get why you're bringing it up. It has to do that you have a whole lot of a better chance to live until the next day by not claiming. By claiming, you're signing your own death certificate in a game with no medics and where scum are going to go for obvious targets.
Show nested quote +Now, all your "breadcrumb" things are terrible and a null-tell.
It makes no sense for scum to try to breadcrumb into the thread unless it's to direct other scum and communicate plans. Crumbing in the thread to identify yourself in PM is just stupid. So you're saying that Jackal bread crumbed about driving, and my birthday, instead of just saying, "I'm OPEC, clues and puzzles", "Steelers, profile", "Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, wiki", which would be easily recognizable as being him? Then the thing about my birthday isn't a tell either. It's normal when it's someone's birthday, to say, "Happy Birthday". As well, you missed Vain wishing me one later, so was that him just picking up on the crumb later? You're looking too far into that, unless you think Vain, Ace, and Jackal are all scum breadcrumbing, and tack was just an innocent bystander. CarTrip, is much shorter, where he could add in "hpyBday" Then it allows for more letters, and I think he's successfully shed some light for scum. I'm treating the happy birthday thing as a funny little sidenote. I thought you would just shrug it off, but I'll take note of your concern I connected ace and jackal from other things.
Why does length matter? OPEC is shorter than any of those for example, arguing about that is pointless. What I'm trying to say, is do you think that the Cell Leader would try to put public breadcrumbs in his posts instead of just referring to something in his profile or signature? What's the advantage? If that's what your analysis is based on, then maybe you're the Cell Leader because you wrote "batman" in your hello post and varp called you batman later. See how your examples of breadcrumbs can just be cherry-picked?
Show nested quote +You also say that you don't want to analyze Jackal, because: I don't really feel I need to make a huge in-depth analysis on his behavior, since it will not be strongest point, even if I was 10x the analyzer. To summarize what I make of jackal's posts, I will only to briefly skim them, even if he has a lot. Right here, you say, "Jackal doesn't look like scum from his posting". You're relying on your supposed "DT information", to be the decider for his lynch. However, if you were a DT, you would look at your result and then go over his posts. If he didn't look scummy to you, you would decide that it was RNG. Just claiming, without strong analysis, with the chance that he's town, is just bad play. And where the fuck do I say he isn't scummy? I say the breadcrumbs+the insufficient are plenty to convince me. I don't really need to his behavior to convict him, but it worked out that way in the end once you read his posts. DID YOU READ THE ANALYSIS, I WENT OVER HIS POSTS. I skimmed then and said I got the gist of his Cell Leader posts, because if I read everything he posted on that and made a comment on each I would still be writing the analysis. NOT ME SORRY LOL. And its my supposed DT info and the crumbs! Without the crumbs then you're right its just a 75% guess and a happy birthday. (which it isnt READ IT AGAIN FFFF) Disregarding my analysis because I say my information (and crumbs) are stronger is obnoxiously scummy of you wiggles.
You say your analysis is weak, and use that as an excuse for not pushing any analysis. Your "analysis", as it stands, is "Jackal talks a lot about the cell leader and breadcrumbs". The rest is the "relationships" he has with others IF he were the Cell Leader, and the "breadcrumbs". You're begging the question, you have to show through your analysis why he can be the cell leader, not say he's the cell leader and go from there. To me, the crumbs mean nothing, and I need more convincing than "he talks about cell leader" and a 22% chance if you're telling the truth. That's why I'd like to see analysis, not a claim that doesn't make any sense.
Show nested quote +I think you're smarter than that and would think things through if you were a DT. So, I think you're lying.
You thought wrong sir. Thanks for making me take actual note of you. Would you have still responded the same way if I didn't include you?
Yes I would, because whether you include me or not, your claim makes no sense, and lynching someone off of "breadcrumbs" that just seem to be cherry picked isn't good enough for me.
Someone aside from the magnificent three care to call me a blatant liar?
Also, a tiny little smidge of a note, it's definitely not the end of the world for scum if they get the wrong assumption from a message. Hypothetically, if the HpyBDay was a crumb, and tackster was alive and wiggles/ace thought he was scum for some reason, that most likely will not effect the scheme of things. There are only a handful of situations involving tackser claiming or jackal contradicting himself. Both of which would be hilarious.
If you think I'm scum now, I'd like it if you came out and said it, not talked around me. You still haven't given me ONE good reason why any cell leader would try to write things into his posts so that he could get caught for it rather than just refer to something in his profile. Also, I'm not even sure who you're asking us to lynch?
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I can't fathom the idea of you playing this bad if you are indeed the DT.
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thanks wiggles really putting yourself out there to shove some words out of my mouth.
Jackal Ace Wiggles
That's what Im feelin'
Wiggles, he blatantly commentated twice on how he spends time in his card rides thinking about mafia. He came back insufficient. HE SPENT THE WHOLE GAME OBSESSED WITH CL. That is not mere coincidence. He is the cell leader.
Saying Car instead of "steelers profile" leaves enough space for jackal to add 17 other characters in. If jackal only revealed that he was scum, he would then HAVE to publicly coordinate the rest of the scum with happy birthdays until his next message. Clue them all in (I would have done it I think) and then it doesn't matter if you live or die, once scum know who each other are, cell leaders only have to send messages hinting at targets and such.
The entire first day I read 20 pages of posts talking about how to catch breadcrumbs, and now mine are useless, when they are completely feasible.
Then my behavior analysis, which any nin-kum-poop can see jackal's behavior, is pretty much undeniable that jackal talk non-stop about breadcrumbs and cell leaders. Just flat out say that what jackal did does not make him Cell leader so town can mark that down on you.
And yeah, I think he was attempting to communicate with Ace somehow, or Ace was trying to communicate with him.
And i meant "if scum doesnt hit me" blahblahblah free confirmed something. And isn't 25% x 25% around 7%? I may be talking out of my ass with that.
And I become an obvious target. I want jackal lynched now so scum don't get a breather knowing the current CL (yes i made that up now when ggq pointed out it goes to another sleeper) and I kinda want to die. Sorry if that screws over your behavior analysis on me, but I have a busy internet-less weekend. I had ways of remaining active if I had a different role, but I got IA so this makes sense to me. Have no idea why you're making a huge deal over me claiming, unless your scum then your just grasping. That makes a lot more sense.
And please connect me to batman. That makes this beautiful. Because if I get lynched and pop blue, varp is a nice solid lead to townie town.
AND CHERRY PICKING BREADCRUMBS?! LOL WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? OH ILL SKIP THAT OBVIOUS CRANNY DONT WANT TO CHERRY PICK.
No where do I say my analysis is weak. Blatant word twisting. I said my information+crumbs are stronger and I'll say it again. My analysis is obvious. I'm sorry if it's obvious but jackal made it that way. I can rip to shreds all of his posts relating to his role, but I really dont have time, and Im spending too much time churning out responses to scum.
cherrypicked breadcrumbs food oh its all making sense now!
I didnt think you were scum when i analyzed jackal. I entertained the humorous notion about the birthday. You exploding all over it, and gunning against this analysis that has nothing to do with you like it's your last defense DEFINITELY make you scum in my eyes. I don't think I remember you ever attacking something like this. I like it wiggles, but next time do it as town to throw us for a little loop.
Jackal sent a "car message" wiggles and ace know it, so they know jackal is CL and they need to attack me because they think they can drag town into lylo. If anyone else has questions, I'll try to answer tomorrow.
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Wow, bum. Nowhere did I call you scum yet, I'm just trying to wrap my head around your claim that in my eyes, is bad play. nowhere did I "explode", either. I just don't like that you're trying to insinuate that I'm scum based on the silly notion people saying happy birthday is scum communicating. When I was talking about breadcrumbs, I was talking about ways that scum would direct scum, or let them know their identity. Just looking at the car ride, and saying, "He talked about a car ride! Message was car ride!", isn't very strong in my opinion. It looks like you're looking too far into it to me. What next, the person who also said they have exams is my scum-buddy because they also said they have exams? I'm also not attacking your analysis, because there isn't an analysis there to begin with, I'm arguing against your logic.
You're getting angry and throwing around accusations instead of answering any of my questions or addressing my points.
EVERYONE talked about Cell leader and breadcrumbs on day 1, the only thing I find suspicious is Jackal pushing for whoever to explain his method of crumbing, so what else sets him apart?
WHY would you claim, it doesn't help town, and it doesn't help you, so why? This pisses me off more than anything, because we lose a blue role for sure now if you're telling the truth.
HOW CAN YOU BE SURE, that driving is a breadcrumb? At that point, you can go back in the thread and just construe talking about anything non-game related to be a scum tell, so what makes it particularly telling? just that he mentioned it three times?.
I can't even understand half of what you say when you reply to me, but all I want is just to get to the bottom of things and address questions instead of sheeping and following blue claims without a thought. Your replies don't help put me at ease though, because you just go off on tangents and repeat yourself instead of discuss.
Right now, there's a about 8 people lurking, and the scum among them are just LOVING this, because it gives them cover to not do anything. Day ends in less than 24 hours, and the only people talking are me, you, ace, and san. Jackal made some posts, and why pushed for a lynch at the beginning of the day and then disappeared. Everyone else is invisible.
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Alright, busy day but I'm back. And there's been a lot to come back to!
okay so this is the third time I've tried to type this up, because each time I get halfway through I realize something and restart. HERE WE GO, LAST TRY
Bum's dt claim doesn't really make sense if he's town. Why do it now, especially with such a questionable result as 'no information'? Since he's so sure of who jackal's scumbuddies are, why not wait one more night and confirm that? There isn't even a chance that he could get killed and have all this be for nothing if he's smart enough to type up his case against jackal, post it a few minutes before night ends, and if he survives by the time the day post is up (and his results have gotten back) he could potentially finger the CL AND a red along with it. That seems like ideal play to me.
...so what does claiming this early get him, as blue or red? It's a huge distraction, but reds can't afford to trade one of their own just to keep town distracted for a day. The thing is, bum's DT result didn't actually show that jackal was scum, so if jackal flips green he can easily claim he just tunneled jackal... and it wouldn't even be one for one, because the next day he could say 'look to prove it I found a red last night' and just name someone kind of lurk-y who he doesn't have much of a red read on. Best case it's a green/blue and the trade becomes two for one, with town having wasted two lynches and worst case it's another red and bum gets 'confirmed'.
...anyway, that's how I see the thought processes for this claim. Neither really makes a ton of sense to me, because both are so risky. I'm holding off on voting for now, but this suspicion around bum by no means clears jackal and ace. We need to keep an eye on them, ace and bum especially.
Also tnk, weren't you supposed to claim your super weird role come daytime?
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I realized what happened. As usual bum's reading ability needs to be questioned here. Read the OP bum since you assume Scum are forced to communicate in thread.
On April 29 2011 16:38 bumatlarge wrote: thanks wiggles really putting yourself out there to shove some words out of my mouth.
Jackal Ace Wiggles
That's what Im feelin'
Wiggles, he blatantly commentated twice on how he spends time in his card rides thinking about mafia. He came back insufficient. HE SPENT THE WHOLE GAME OBSESSED WITH CL. That is not mere coincidence. He is the cell leader.
Saying Car instead of "steelers profile" leaves enough space for jackal to add 17 other characters in. If jackal only revealed that he was scum, he would then HAVE to publicly coordinate the rest of the scum with happy birthdays until his next message. Clue them all in (I would have done it I think) and then it doesn't matter if you live or die, once scum know who each other are, cell leaders only have to send messages hinting at targets and such.
The entire first day I read 20 pages of posts talking about how to catch breadcrumbs, and now mine are useless, when they are completely feasible.
Then my behavior analysis, which any nin-kum-poop can see jackal's behavior, is pretty much undeniable that jackal talk non-stop about breadcrumbs and cell leaders. Just flat out say that what jackal did does not make him Cell leader so town can mark that down on you.
And yeah, I think he was attempting to communicate with Ace somehow, or Ace was trying to communicate with him.
And i meant "if scum doesnt hit me" blahblahblah free confirmed something. And isn't 25% x 25% around 7%? I may be talking out of my ass with that.
And I become an obvious target. I want jackal lynched now so scum don't get a breather knowing the current CL (yes i made that up now when ggq pointed out it goes to another sleeper) and I kinda want to die. Sorry if that screws over your behavior analysis on me, but I have a busy internet-less weekend. I had ways of remaining active if I had a different role, but I got IA so this makes sense to me. Have no idea why you're making a huge deal over me claiming, unless your scum then your just grasping. That makes a lot more sense.
And please connect me to batman. That makes this beautiful. Because if I get lynched and pop blue, varp is a nice solid lead to townie town.
AND CHERRY PICKING BREADCRUMBS?! LOL WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? OH ILL SKIP THAT OBVIOUS CRANNY DONT WANT TO CHERRY PICK.
No where do I say my analysis is weak. Blatant word twisting. I said my information+crumbs are stronger and I'll say it again. My analysis is obvious. I'm sorry if it's obvious but jackal made it that way. I can rip to shreds all of his posts relating to his role, but I really dont have time, and Im spending too much time churning out responses to scum.
cherrypicked breadcrumbs food oh its all making sense now!
I didnt think you were scum when i analyzed jackal. I entertained the humorous notion about the birthday. You exploding all over it, and gunning against this analysis that has nothing to do with you like it's your last defense DEFINITELY make you scum in my eyes. I don't think I remember you ever attacking something like this. I like it wiggles, but next time do it as town to throw us for a little loop.
Jackal sent a "car message" wiggles and ace know it, so they know jackal is CL and they need to attack me because they think they can drag town into lylo. If anyone else has questions, I'll try to answer tomorrow.
Cell Leader
You may send a message consisting of 5 words or 20 characters to any agent at dawn and dusk of each day. Submit it like a normal action. The message can't contain the name of any player. The message is PM'd to both myself and chaoser. We will send it to the player you specify.
So your bread crumbing argument is off. This is why we keep saying you're making no sense. You didn't even read the OP. Ah well, at least we know you're regular Scum and not the Cell Leader.
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Ahhhh shit. Wtf Bum? The sad part of all this is I do believe your DT claim. If you were pulling some sort of scum shit you would have just claimed I was scum not the insufficient evidence bs. What I don't understand is why you felt like you had to reveal your role with an "insufficient evidence" return and a shit load of smoke and mirrors analysis. You pretty much guarantee we're both dead. Once again you get zero return on your RPGs. Go Bum.
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On April 29 2011 17:26 Eiii wrote: Alright, busy day but I'm back. And there's been a lot to come back to!
okay so this is the third time I've tried to type this up, because each time I get halfway through I realize something and restart. HERE WE GO, LAST TRY
Bum's dt claim doesn't really make sense if he's town. Why do it now, especially with such a questionable result as 'no information'? Since he's so sure of who jackal's scumbuddies are, why not wait one more night and confirm that? There isn't even a chance that he could get killed and have all this be for nothing if he's smart enough to type up his case against jackal, post it a few minutes before night ends, and if he survives by the time the day post is up (and his results have gotten back) he could potentially finger the CL AND a red along with it. That seems like ideal play to me.
...so what does claiming this early get him, as blue or red? It's a huge distraction, but reds can't afford to trade one of their own just to keep town distracted for a day. The thing is, bum's DT result didn't actually show that jackal was scum, so if jackal flips green he can easily claim he just tunneled jackal... and it wouldn't even be one for one, because the next day he could say 'look to prove it I found a red last night' and just name someone kind of lurk-y who he doesn't have much of a red read on. Best case it's a green/blue and the trade becomes two for one, with town having wasted two lynches and worst case it's another red and bum gets 'confirmed'.
...anyway, that's how I see the thought processes for this claim. Neither really makes a ton of sense to me, because both are so risky. I'm holding off on voting for now, but this suspicion around bum by no means clears jackal and ace. We need to keep an eye on them, ace and bum especially.
Also tnk, weren't you supposed to claim your super weird role come daytime?
Yeah, I was. I'm going to hold off until this bum/ace situation is solved. You'll see why.
I've been busy with schoolwork lately, sorry yall. I've already pulled out of a couple other games, hopefully I'll have time to keep playing this one!
My thoughts: As far as I can read my gut is actually telling me to trust bum, which is a suprise because I usually make it a point to distrust bum as long as possible because I find his style of writing so persuasive. In this case, however, I think that he's wrong about jackal, but right about Ace. Jackal, while his style of play this game is totally different from his previous games (its an improvement Jackal! you're getting targeted partly because your meta is off!) probably isn't stupid enough to post traffic breadcrumbs in the middle of the thread. That's wifom of course, but I feel good about it. I've gotten a feeling of earnest effort from him all game that I'm willing to indulge in.
Regarding Ace: Ace has absolutely refused to hop on a few things that other people have found scummy. There was my belated roleclaim, the fact that I blatantly told mafia to kill ace (which was an honest mistake, I had no intention of doing that.) Whats interesting is that he didn't die. GM died instead. I'm going to speculate for a minute on how this could have gone down:
Lets say we have 5 mafia and one CL, roughly 1/3 of the total players. 1 scum is dead, which makes it 5 scum overall, 4 of them agents. What way would they vote? Since they can't communicate in the thread, and only one of them knows who the CL is (assuming that one person is told every day/flip), if we assume that that player wasn't Rean (for the sake of arguement, I still think it was), wouldn't they have a somewhat even split around who to kill?
Perhaps the split went like this: 2 - GM 2 - Ace Since its a tie, the CL gets to choose. Both were extremely high profile targets. Why wouldn't Ace get killed? Theres the possibility that whoever CL is could read GM well, which is a possibility. I think that Ace cast the final vote that killed GM.
This isn't conclusive, of course, its all speculation, but I think it makes sense, and since I don't want to vote for bum at this point, I'm voting Ace.
#vote ace
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Ok, for those of you who are skeptical of bum, what do you think about lynching him to prove it, to satisfy your curiosity?
If he really is the DT, his list and reasoning seems pretty solid, and I haven't seen any better ideas.....
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On April 30 2011 00:53 Impervious wrote: Ok, for those of you who are skeptical of bum, what do you think about lynching him to prove it, to satisfy your curiosity?
If he really is the DT, his list and reasoning seems pretty solid, and I haven't seen any better ideas..... I am not in favor of lynching our DT. No matter how obsolete he just managed to make himself.
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On April 29 2011 23:37 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 17:26 Eiii wrote: Alright, busy day but I'm back. And there's been a lot to come back to!
okay so this is the third time I've tried to type this up, because each time I get halfway through I realize something and restart. HERE WE GO, LAST TRY
Bum's dt claim doesn't really make sense if he's town. Why do it now, especially with such a questionable result as 'no information'? Since he's so sure of who jackal's scumbuddies are, why not wait one more night and confirm that? There isn't even a chance that he could get killed and have all this be for nothing if he's smart enough to type up his case against jackal, post it a few minutes before night ends, and if he survives by the time the day post is up (and his results have gotten back) he could potentially finger the CL AND a red along with it. That seems like ideal play to me.
...so what does claiming this early get him, as blue or red? It's a huge distraction, but reds can't afford to trade one of their own just to keep town distracted for a day. The thing is, bum's DT result didn't actually show that jackal was scum, so if jackal flips green he can easily claim he just tunneled jackal... and it wouldn't even be one for one, because the next day he could say 'look to prove it I found a red last night' and just name someone kind of lurk-y who he doesn't have much of a red read on. Best case it's a green/blue and the trade becomes two for one, with town having wasted two lynches and worst case it's another red and bum gets 'confirmed'.
...anyway, that's how I see the thought processes for this claim. Neither really makes a ton of sense to me, because both are so risky. I'm holding off on voting for now, but this suspicion around bum by no means clears jackal and ace. We need to keep an eye on them, ace and bum especially.
Also tnk, weren't you supposed to claim your super weird role come daytime? Yeah, I was. I'm going to hold off until this bum/ace situation is solved. You'll see why. I've been busy with schoolwork lately, sorry yall. I've already pulled out of a couple other games, hopefully I'll have time to keep playing this one! My thoughts: As far as I can read my gut is actually telling me to trust bum, which is a suprise because I usually make it a point to distrust bum as long as possible because I find his style of writing so persuasive. In this case, however, I think that he's wrong about jackal, but right about Ace. Jackal, while his style of play this game is totally different from his previous games (its an improvement Jackal! you're getting targeted partly because your meta is off!) probably isn't stupid enough to post traffic breadcrumbs in the middle of the thread. That's wifom of course, but I feel good about it. I've gotten a feeling of earnest effort from him all game that I'm willing to indulge in. Regarding Ace: Ace has absolutely refused to hop on a few things that other people have found scummy. There was my belated roleclaim, the fact that I blatantly told mafia to kill ace (which was an honest mistake, I had no intention of doing that.) Whats interesting is that he didn't die. GM died instead. I'm going to speculate for a minute on how this could have gone down: Lets say we have 5 mafia and one CL, roughly 1/3 of the total players. 1 scum is dead, which makes it 5 scum overall, 4 of them agents. What way would they vote? Since they can't communicate in the thread, and only one of them knows who the CL is (assuming that one person is told every day/flip), if we assume that that player wasn't Rean (for the sake of arguement, I still think it was), wouldn't they have a somewhat even split around who to kill? Perhaps the split went like this: 2 - GM 2 - Ace Since its a tie, the CL gets to choose. Both were extremely high profile targets. Why wouldn't Ace get killed? Theres the possibility that whoever CL is could read GM well, which is a possibility. I think that Ace cast the final vote that killed GM. This isn't conclusive, of course, its all speculation, but I think it makes sense, and since I don't want to vote for bum at this point, I'm voting Ace. #vote ace
what the hell is this? What role claim? Where?
Also where do you guys go off with all these hypothetical situations and made up scenarios to try and paint people scum.
So bum claims DT, says Jackal is Scum with insufficient evidence and you're voting for ME?
that doesn't even make sense. You're trying to off me with no evidence here.
Town look very carefully at the voting thread and read this post. Out of no where tnkted pops up and votes for me with terrible reasoning and completely ignores the bum/jackal situation.
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On April 30 2011 02:27 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 00:53 Impervious wrote: Ok, for those of you who are skeptical of bum, what do you think about lynching him to prove it, to satisfy your curiosity?
If he really is the DT, his list and reasoning seems pretty solid, and I haven't seen any better ideas..... I am not in favor of lynching our DT. No matter how obsolete he just managed to make himself.
why do you believe he's a DT so easily? There is no way you can 100% believe him so fast.
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Because I'm hypothetically 100% correct! (and jackal is CL)
Though I am confused about tnkted, what the balls dude? Even if we both heavily suspect Ace, jackal or myself needs to be lynched so we can sort this out ASAP. I really don't see how you can make Ace out to be scum but thinking jackal is town at the same time.
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bum the part of your post with bread crumbing is wrong though. You didn't know CL can communicate with Agents privately?
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On April 30 2011 00:53 Impervious wrote: Ok, for those of you who are skeptical of bum, what do you think about lynching him to prove it, to satisfy your curiosity?
If he really is the DT, his list and reasoning seems pretty solid, and I haven't seen any better ideas.....
I was thinking about if we should lynch either Jackal or Bum, but realized, that whichever we choose, we get NO information about the other's alignment that we don't have already. This is why, I find his claim so blatantly bad, coming from only one result, and from an "insufficient".
-If Jackal flips green, then Bum could or could not be the detective still. -If Jackal flips red, then Bum could be or not be the detective still -If Jackal flips Cell Leader, this makes Bum look more town, but still doesn't say whether he's a DT or not, because this result isn't based off a check, it's based off suspicion.
-Bum flips Blue, then Jackal still could be or not be town, because the check was inconclusive -Bum flips red, Jackal looks more town, still WIFOM for it being a bus
The only situation that lets us know the alignment of the surviving player better is IF Jackal flips cell leader, because then we only need to figure out the probability of it being a bus.
So, we can't lynch for information. We have to lynch who we think is scummiest, because the flip won't tell us much about the alignment of the other one.
What this is like, is if it were a normal game and 4 greens remained with one GF who shows up green to checks. So you check a player and he shows up green, and then you claim DT and say that the green check means that he's GF and you build an analysis from the starting point that he's GF. It just isn't convincing, and doesn't make sense.
In this game, at least on a red return, we could check if he's lying or not, because there's no framer that we know about. On multiple returns, say if he claimed day 3, we would be able to cross-check the players. All he'd have to do, is 1 minute before the day post, say I'm DT, I checked these people, and give the alignment of the one you know, in case one or both of them was killed by scum that night. After two checks, he should at least have one full return, most likely.
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On April 30 2011 04:33 bumatlarge wrote: Because I'm hypothetically 100% correct! (and jackal is CL)
Though I am confused about tnkted, what the balls dude? Even if we both heavily suspect Ace, jackal or myself needs to be lynched so we can sort this out ASAP. I really don't see how you can make Ace out to be scum but thinking jackal is town at the same time.
Lynching you or Jackal sorts out nothing, really. Also, can you answer my questions?
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yoyoyo day ends in 8 and a half hours, get your votes in
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@Wiggles: Yea that is another problem with his claim as mentioned before - this isn't a Scum check it's a null check. Nothing to go off of here.
I still think he misread the OP if he's really a Detective. The bread crumb stuff just makes no sense.
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On April 30 2011 04:39 chaoser wrote: yoyoyo day ends in 8 and a half hours, get your votes in
can you update the thread so we see the count before the lynch?
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On April 30 2011 04:21 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 02:27 Jackal58 wrote:On April 30 2011 00:53 Impervious wrote: Ok, for those of you who are skeptical of bum, what do you think about lynching him to prove it, to satisfy your curiosity?
If he really is the DT, his list and reasoning seems pretty solid, and I haven't seen any better ideas..... I am not in favor of lynching our DT. No matter how obsolete he just managed to make himself. why do you believe he's a DT so easily? There is no way you can 100% believe him so fast. I'm not 100% anything. I just can't see him pulling a Pandain and then claiming I checked "insufficient information" If that is the case then he's running some sort of gambit that makes no sense to anybody but himself.
On April 30 2011 04:33 bumatlarge wrote: Because I'm hypothetically 100% correct! (and jackal is CL)
Though I am confused about tnkted, what the balls dude? Even if we both heavily suspect Ace, jackal or myself needs to be lynched so we can sort this out ASAP. I really don't see how you can make Ace out to be scum but thinking jackal is town at the same time. You're hypothetically delusional. He can think that way because I am town. Hell Ace was sure I was scum yesterday and now he's defending me. WTF!!! You guys are all going batshit insane.
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On April 30 2011 04:35 Ace wrote: bum the part of your post with bread crumbing is wrong though. You didn't know CL can communicate with Agents privately?
I'm reading that they get 1 message per day and 1 message per night, to any single sleeper agent. I am assuming there are no more then 5 agents, 4 alive. With one message to an individual when kenpachi was lynched and another when GM was shot, jackal would could have informed 2 other agents who exactly was on their entire team with the 20 character choice. The word car (i dont think you would want to use the 5 word limit) would inform them all that jackal is an agent at least. He could put CL afterwards to inform them of the role. The next 15 characters would be used to give the other 2 agents. I was saying that it would be funny if jackal wanted to use the 'happy birthday' if wiggles or Ace was scum. I wasn't going to go into more detail because it could easily be a misinterpretation, it was just a thought. It does not matter to agents, they just need one breadcrumb, and a ctrl+F. I believe that was Ace's point with the list, but it didn't include things outside the list where I would put crumbs as CL.
What othe thing did you think I thought the breadcrumbs were for Ace? I read the OP very clearly and I still believe I am on the right track.
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Alright bum, please stop with your statistical bullshit. The statistics are wrong, and RNG's are random.
I really can't understand why you would claim dt because you got an inconclusive result. Now, we can't even verify your claim by lynching you or Jackal, because no matter what either of you flip, we can't confirm anybody.
About the crumbs: It's stupid. As somebody said in the thread, it could be said that You're cell leader and I'm a sleeper cell agent because you said Batman in your opening post and I addressed you as batman in a later post.
You're not going to live past night two, unless the scum are really stupid. You are aware that we already lost one intelligence agent, right?
I'm really not sure about who to vote for at this point. Nobody seems good at the moment. I don't buy the connection between ace and Jackal, because from what I can tell the only evidence is the fact that they both wished Mr. Wiggles a happy birthday.
Lynching bum is stupid, he's a dead man walking anyways.
I'll have to look through the thread again. I'll post soon with a decision.
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Well right now jackal is in the lead with 3 votes.
I don't think bum is a dead man walking because if he's a Scum lying about being DT we are back to the same scenario tomorrow. His reasoning just doesn't add up period.
What othe thing did you think I thought the breadcrumbs were for Ace? I read the OP very clearly and I still believe I am on the right track.
Just what I said. I have no idea how your entire link between Me and Jackal = we both said happy birthday to Mr. Wiggles. Thats just ridiculous. We can all pick out arbitrary posts and say HEY LOOK A BREADCRUMB!
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On April 29 2011 17:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Wow, bum. Nowhere did I call you scum yet, I'm just trying to wrap my head around your claim that in my eyes, is bad play. nowhere did I "explode", either. I just don't like that you're trying to insinuate that I'm scum based on the silly notion people saying happy birthday is scum communicating. When I was talking about breadcrumbs, I was talking about ways that scum would direct scum, or let them know their identity. Just looking at the car ride, and saying, "He talked about a car ride! Message was car ride!", isn't very strong in my opinion. It looks like you're looking too far into it to me. What next, the person who also said they have exams is my scum-buddy because they also said they have exams? I'm also not attacking your analysis, because there isn't an analysis there to begin with, I'm arguing against your logic.
You're getting angry and throwing around accusations instead of answering any of my questions or addressing my points.
Who said I was angry? I mentioned the happy birthday as an item of interest which jackal happened to be involved in, and your initial response to my claim seemed like you took personal offense from my suggestion. Your calling it bad play as you are wrapping your head around it, so I'm not sure if you're thinking aloud in the thread or you have a preconceived notion of you are supposed to think of my claim.
If you got a message that said "carXXXXXXXXXX" would you dismiss jackal being scum? Of course not, you would assume that that is what he meant. That's all they should need. I didn't see anything else in this thread when I read it over that went as off-topic as jackal mentioning his carride. All you've done with my analysis is call it bad because I generalize jackal's behavior very quickly. There is no more need for it if I have seen jackal reference CL and breadcrumbs in every single post he has made in the first day. Only a CL would be that concerned about it.
And I do not care if it is obvious. A crumb just needs to slip by. If you go "well jackal's car ride was to obvious, it's not a real crumb" then congrats to jackal he did a good job!
EVERYONE talked about Cell leader and breadcrumbs on day 1, the only thing I find suspicious is Jackal pushing for whoever to explain his method of crumbing, so what else sets him apart?
And you drill me for picking one up? He's thoroughly panic-stricken over it. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. That seems like borderline paranoia from sandroba not telling him how to inform all scum of who is who.
WHY would you claim, it doesn't help town, and it doesn't help you, so why? This pisses me off more than anything, because we lose a blue role for sure now if you're telling the truth. And then tnkted doesn't die, who is the more important blue
HOW CAN YOU BE SURE, that driving is a breadcrumb? At that point, you can go back in the thread and just construe talking about anything non-game related to be a scum tell, so what makes it particularly telling? just that he mentioned it three times?.
That there is nor reason to mention it. It doesn't have any effect on the thread what so ever. Thats what I think an obvious and good breadcrumb is.
I can't even understand half of what you say when you reply to me, but all I want is just to get to the bottom of things and address questions instead of sheeping and following blue claims without a thought. Your replies don't help put me at ease though, because you just go off on tangents and repeat yourself instead of discuss. Ok then, what is the bottom of things? I am IA, so based purely on that jackal is 75% CL and 25% not. I have a very good eye for this day 1 shit. I wouldn't bring this up if I didn't think jackal was certain cell leader.
Right now, there's a about 8 people lurking, and the scum among them are just LOVING this, because it gives them cover to not do anything. Day ends in less than 24 hours, and the only people talking are me, you, ace, and san. Jackal made some posts, and why pushed for a lynch at the beginning of the day and then disappeared. Everyone else is invisible.
Well that is a real shame, because they need to provide input.Don't blame my claim for people's lurking. Blame their lurking for their lurking! I think 7 of those 8 are town so, I hope they can act in town's best interest.
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On April 30 2011 05:53 Ace wrote:Well right now jackal is in the lead with 3 votes. I don't think bum is a dead man walking because if he's a Scum lying about being DT we are back to the same scenario tomorrow. His reasoning just doesn't add up period. Show nested quote + What othe thing did you think I thought the breadcrumbs were for Ace? I read the OP very clearly and I still believe I am on the right track.
Just what I said. I have no idea how your entire link between Me and Jackal = we both said happy birthday to Mr. Wiggles. Thats just ridiculous. We can all pick out arbitrary posts and say HEY LOOK A BREADCRUMB!
The happy birthday thing was a JOKE READ. AHHAHA WOULDNT THAT BE FUNNY?
On April 29 2011 10:54 bumatlarge wrote:That's about what I got. Also, here is some funny stuff. Just sayin if this is right, then I called it first. Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:06 Ace wrote: Happy Birthday Wiggles.
Impervious can you list your 3 players? And Ace posts right after. Ace defintely knows Jackal is CL lololololol, and I think ace was trying to identify if jackal was pointing wiggles out as another agent. That would be hilarious. (Tackster said happy birthday too! But he doesn't count lololol) Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 09:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On April 29 2011 09:01 Jackal58 wrote:On April 29 2011 08:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So... did the thread die? I want to type more on my new keyboard :p Breadcrumb? No, it was my birthday a couple days ago, and I got a mech keyboard, and blue switches are really fun to type on. Oh happy birthday wiggles! Im sure jackal wished you happy birthday in that message he sent you as well. So like, does mafia want to concede now, or do they want to make this enjoyable for me? If you thought that was meant to be a big part the analysis then I need to shoot myself.
There were many other things in the analysis that were not doing you favors in cutting the connections with jackal. I got the feeling that you figured in some way, whether jackal msg'd you or not, that he was CL.
That you immediately assumed I was lying was what made me really think you were scum, instead of looking at both sides in the thread, like every other townie did, like varp, GGQ and impervious. Now you went back on that, so yeah I think you slipped there. But you shouldn't be lynched until after jackal.
And I'm not going to squirm no matter what happens in the lynch. I will make a check I deem most profitable for town, and if I survive I will give the results whether I get lynched after or not. Jackal as a mislynch would be an OUTSTANDING amount of bad luck for both of us. I still think he's 99% CL, but it would give town something to work with.
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On April 30 2011 05:47 VarpuliS wrote: Alright bum, please stop with your statistical bullshit. The statistics are wrong, and RNG's are random.
I really can't understand why you would claim dt because you got an inconclusive result. Now, we can't even verify your claim by lynching you or Jackal, because no matter what either of you flip, we can't confirm anybody.
About the crumbs: It's stupid. As somebody said in the thread, it could be said that You're cell leader and I'm a sleeper cell agent because you said Batman in your opening post and I addressed you as batman in a later post.
You're not going to live past night two, unless the scum are really stupid. You are aware that we already lost one intelligence agent, right?
I'm really not sure about who to vote for at this point. Nobody seems good at the moment. I don't buy the connection between ace and Jackal, because from what I can tell the only evidence is the fact that they both wished Mr. Wiggles a happy birthday.
Lynching bum is stupid, he's a dead man walking anyways.
I'll have to look through the thread again. I'll post soon with a decision.
I'm an analyst, not an agent. Agent = Vig and analyst = cop.
I think there is another blue role, whether its one of these or one of the "not mentioned" roles.
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I'm glad your so positive Bum. I really am. The only satisfaction I'm going to get out of this is knowing that your grandiose plan of "Disrupting Scums Communications" isn't going to disrupt jack shit. And I'll even feel a little twinge of satisfaction when you get shot tonight or lynched tomorrow. Cause I honestly don't know wtf you are. I can't even claim some sooper secret double ought spy role cause I'm just vanilla. Well I could but it would be bullshit. So to sum it all up: 1. You didn't disrupt anything. 2. If you're a DT you fucked town. 3 I'm annoyed that I'm going to get lynched on a bullshit plan that ain't going to do dick.
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On April 30 2011 06:11 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 17:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Wow, bum. Nowhere did I call you scum yet, I'm just trying to wrap my head around your claim that in my eyes, is bad play. nowhere did I "explode", either. I just don't like that you're trying to insinuate that I'm scum based on the silly notion people saying happy birthday is scum communicating. When I was talking about breadcrumbs, I was talking about ways that scum would direct scum, or let them know their identity. Just looking at the car ride, and saying, "He talked about a car ride! Message was car ride!", isn't very strong in my opinion. It looks like you're looking too far into it to me. What next, the person who also said they have exams is my scum-buddy because they also said they have exams? I'm also not attacking your analysis, because there isn't an analysis there to begin with, I'm arguing against your logic.
You're getting angry and throwing around accusations instead of answering any of my questions or addressing my points. Who said I was angry? I mentioned the happy birthday as an item of interest which jackal happened to be involved in, and your initial response to my claim seemed like you took personal offense from my suggestion. Your calling it bad play as you are wrapping your head around it, so I'm not sure if you're thinking aloud in the thread or you have a preconceived notion of you are supposed to think of my claim. If you got a message that said "carXXXXXXXXXX" would you dismiss jackal being scum? Of course not, you would assume that that is what he meant. That's all they should need. I didn't see anything else in this thread when I read it over that went as off-topic as jackal mentioning his carride. All you've done with my analysis is call it bad because I generalize jackal's behavior very quickly. There is no more need for it if I have seen jackal reference CL and breadcrumbs in every single post he has made in the first day. Only a CL would be that concerned about it.And I do not care if it is obvious. A crumb just needs to slip by. If you go "well jackal's car ride was to obvious, it's not a real crumb" then congrats to jackal he did a good job! Show nested quote +EVERYONE talked about Cell leader and breadcrumbs on day 1, the only thing I find suspicious is Jackal pushing for whoever to explain his method of crumbing, so what else sets him apart? And you drill me for picking one up? He's thoroughly panic-stricken over it. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. That seems like borderline paranoia from sandroba not telling him how to inform all scum of who is who. Show nested quote +WHY would you claim, it doesn't help town, and it doesn't help you, so why? This pisses me off more than anything, because we lose a blue role for sure now if you're telling the truth. And then tnkted doesn't die, who is the more important blue Show nested quote +HOW CAN YOU BE SURE, that driving is a breadcrumb? At that point, you can go back in the thread and just construe talking about anything non-game related to be a scum tell, so what makes it particularly telling? just that he mentioned it three times?. That there is nor reason to mention it. It doesn't have any effect on the thread what so ever. Thats what I think an obvious and good breadcrumb is. Show nested quote +I can't even understand half of what you say when you reply to me, but all I want is just to get to the bottom of things and address questions instead of sheeping and following blue claims without a thought. Your replies don't help put me at ease though, because you just go off on tangents and repeat yourself instead of discuss. Ok then, what is the bottom of things? I am IA, so based purely on that jackal is 75% CL and 25% not. I have a very good eye for this day 1 shit. I wouldn't bring this up if I didn't think jackal was certain cell leader. Show nested quote +Right now, there's a about 8 people lurking, and the scum among them are just LOVING this, because it gives them cover to not do anything. Day ends in less than 24 hours, and the only people talking are me, you, ace, and san. Jackal made some posts, and why pushed for a lynch at the beginning of the day and then disappeared. Everyone else is invisible. Well that is a real shame, because they need to provide input.Don't blame my claim for people's lurking. Blame their lurking for their lurking! I think 7 of those 8 are town so, I hope they can act in town's best interest.
This, I think, is the strongest part of bum's analysis on jackal, because I've seen the principle in action before and it's an easy way to accidentally slip your role. When you have a role and you are thinking about how to play it, that can subconsciously slip into your posts. jackal's focus on the CL and what the CL might be doing or thinking is very suspicious to me.
So far, his responses seem like a legitimately pissed off townie, though.
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##Vote: Darmousseh
Hardcore lurker here. Has contributed practically nothing. His posts: On April 25 2011 15:02 darmousseh wrote: Hi guys, last three games i either died or got lynched day 1, please don't, i'm town and I want to help town out.
Also FOS on anyone suggesting that we use vigilante right away as we have zero information right now.
That is all for now. He's town and he wants to help town... by not contributing anything. Very helpful /sarcasm
On April 25 2011 15:04 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight! Vain, I hope you aren't a dt because that is the most obvious blue tell ever in my opinion. How is this a blue tell? It's on day 1, and he's making a suggestion to the dt's. I'm not sure how that makes him blue. Not super helpful.On April 25 2011 16:10 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote: EBWOP: I also agree that pointing out vigilantes is not a blue tell, but neither is the post he quoted, which is basically the same thing. If he thinks that what vain did is a blue tell he wouldn't do it if he was blue. He would only do it if he wants to appear to be blue. I did it because it's the biggest blue tell in the world. "Hey guys, let's dt check someone, don't mind me". It's just bad play, that's it. I have no FoS on him, i'm just saying that if he is dt, then we are screwed because mafia would probably pick that up faster than I did. For this very reason, I recommend a dt checks vein because if he isn't the dt, then he's probably scum with the whole "don't mind me" phrase. Please note that the post of vain's that he quoted above was the only post vain had made. There's not evidence here that I'm ignoring. Still not sure how vain slipped that he was dt. This is a small contribution, there are flaws in the reasoning, and he never follows up on it.On April 26 2011 01:33 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 01:16 Rean wrote:On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. How about you give us a reason as to why this is NOT a waste of time? How is knowing what everyone would pick in the hypothetical situation they're GF getting us anywhere close to catching scum? I'm in agreement with rean, this doesn't seem like it will help at all. It's better to just try to analyze behavior and get information. It is different than normal mafia, but tells shouldn't be any different than a normal game. The biggest difference is that the mafia can't bus anyone and they are likely to be as sheepy as the rest of town and so it will be difficult to determine scum behavior off of voting patterns only. Ace has already explained their purpose, so I won't again, but part of the idea was to get people talking. Darmousseh never posted a list.On April 27 2011 00:58 darmousseh wrote: I like Gmarshal's post about wiggles, but I would take it farther since his posts seem suspect. Obviously I won't believe his list for sleeper agents, but I can take a guess that mr wiggles is probably scum.
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles I can't seem to find the post that he's referring to. This is sheeping though, and not a good contribution. I'm assuming that GMarshal was just pressuring Wiggles for inactivity, because he removed the vote promptly. Nobody ever argued that wiggles was scum (up until that point in the game at least)On April 27 2011 02:20 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote: EBWOP: Another thought Maybe Tkdted is seeking the protection of a possible medic role? It's pretty obvious what he is, but apparently calling out people when they make themselves too obvious to the mafia is frowned upon. People need to stop making so many tells, seriously. What is he? I didn't catch that. He just said "my role is weird" I'm not sure about the tells thing. Darm seems to see them everywhere.
That's all! No contribution, no analysis, just filler posts agreeing with other people or being paranoid about blues. Step it up.
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bum what many other things? You have nothing. I know you're lying because your claim just. doesn't. make. sense. There is no "townie reaction here". The only reaction is that you said and I'll say this again:
1.) you investigated Jackal 2.) got an inconclusive result
In no way can you say Jackal is Scum for sure now. You got an IC result, figured Jackal must be the CL then went from there. That isn't actual Scum hunting is it? You're trying to fit Jackal into what you think happens to be Scummy instead of finding Jackal to be scum. Big difference here.
GGQ that part you bolded actually isn't a strong part of his analysis at all. Other players have talked about the CL, tnkted pulled some move earlier that was a "bread crumb", even GM made a list of DT checks and talked about the Intelligence Agent taking a shot Night 1:
So in what way does bum decide that jackal stands out more than any of them? You and everyone else need to change your votes. Especially with this little gem right here:
That you immediately assumed I was lying was what made me really think you were scum, instead of looking at both sides in the thread, like every other townie did, like varp, GGQ and impervious. Now you went back on that, so yeah I think you slipped there. But you shouldn't be lynched until after jackal.
It's Day 2. How do you know they are all town? Only way you would know that if is you know who is all Scum.
Hello Mr. Cell Leader.
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@VarpuliS: I understand darmousseh is lurking but we've got a bigger issue here. Can you change your vote to bum? We'll deal with the lurkers later assuming they don't get modkilled.
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@Ace: In the interest of ensuring that Jackal lives, fine. I don't think that Jackal is scum, and bum has been really stupid. If Darm avoids the modkill I'll press the issue again later.
##Unvote: Darmousseh ##Vote: bumatlarge
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On April 30 2011 07:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Delete this and get the fuck out of here
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On April 30 2011 07:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Please don't fuck with the game. This is as bad as still posting in the thread after you die.
I agree with Jackal. delete it and GTFO.
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United States22154 Posts
I just PMed him requesting he remove his post.
EDIT: That constitutes an attempt to affect the game postmortem, and I will support a ban for it, its not cool, not funny and basically a dick move
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I sent it to Chaoser and iGrok requesting they get the asshole banned.
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I can't stand people talking about the numbers anymore so here they are: + Show Spoiler +Time to Bayes it up! I is 'An inconclusive result is returned' C is 'The player investigated is the cell leader' There were 13 players when bum chose who to investigate. ALRIGHT LET'S DO THIS The probability that a randomly selected player is the cell leader is 1/13, so the probability that a randomly selected player is NOT the cell leader is 12/13. Given that the player investigated is not the cell leader, there's a one in four (25%) chance that the investigation returns inconclusive. But given that the player investigated is the cell leader, an investigation will always give an inconclusive result. That's all we need. Plug it into Bayes' Theorem: (That's the probability of 'A randomly selected player is the cell leader given the investigation on them returned inconclusive' on the left there) Done. If you don't want to look through all that stuff up there, I'll spoil it for you: Disregarding all analysis and looking only at the numbers, there's a 25% chance jackal is CL if bum is telling the truth. Lynching him mostly-- or even partially-- because of the numbers is dumb, we need to fall back to the analysis.
...that said, I don't think the analysis is very strong. I'm at a loss as to what to do today. Our best bet is to vote for the scummiest player, and the player who has claimed DT in a noncheckable way at a time that didn't make any sense for town and completely dominated the day's discussion, and focused town's attention on him/his target is more suspicious to me at the moment than the guy who had a few posts that could be breadcrumbs.
##vote bum
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I'm going to say, we should lynch bum. I've already stated the reasons why I disagree with him.
If he pops DT, we shoot Jackal on the 25% chance that he's the Cell Leader. He's claimed green already, so his death isn't a giant loss if he's not Cell Leader besides just what he brings to the table as a player. We can discuss this more after the lynch though.
If Bum pops scum, then I'm going to heavily suggest a real DT check on Ace, as well as increased scrutiny on GM's vig list, because of this post:
On April 27 2011 23:39 Zorkmid wrote: Let's wait and see if Ace is still alive tomorrow before we waste a check on him.
It will take us a long time to determine whether we have a medic or not, as no sane person with a sense of self preservation dares claim.
GM, I'm thinking that your Vigi list should be more for DT checks. I'm not sold on first night shootings for vigis, as they can be oh so valuable later on.
##Vote: Bum
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Mafia isn't supposed to be a morality play. So why do I feel scummy voting for Bum? I feel like I'm doing a huge omgus but I also feel like I have no other choice. Bum is not my first choice for my vote. But I really need to know what he is.
##VOTE: Bumatlarge
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Guys, if bum is in fact the analyst, while there is only a ~25% chance that he's actually the cell leader, there is a ~50% chance of getting a red. That is a pretty damn good chance at the moment.
While it is stupid (imo) that bum claimed already, if he is the DT, he'll be a high priority target for the mafia, so they'll take him out at night.
I don't see the reasoning for a red claiming as DT. It seems like such a dumb move. It instantly paints a giant target on them when he's still alive the next day. And if the mafia don't eliminate him tonight, then they risk him actually finding a mafia (assuming that Jackal is green).
And, of course, if he's green, it could be an interesting play, if you really had a strong read on someone.
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch him. Voting for someone other than Jackal, based on some kind of analysis, would be fine if you don't believe bum, but lynching him is really fucking dumb right now.
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How did you come to the conclusion there is a 50% chance of getting red?
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On April 30 2011 09:42 Ace wrote: How did you come to the conclusion there is a 50% chance of getting red? Somebody posted that statistic a while ago. People need to stop using statistics is evidence. They can only get us so far.
Analytical reasoning > statistical reasoning in a game of mafia, imo.
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There's 12 people left, and five or less scum. Taking the maximum of 5, and minusing yourself when you know you're town, there's a 45% chance that anyone besides yourself is scum. This applies to everyone though, not just Jackal, that's why I don't like that reasoning for pushing a lynch.
I'd be ok with lynching why/darm right now, if we want to keep bum alive in case he's telling the truth.
The only problem, is if he lives tomorrow, we're in the same spot we are today regarding the lynch. The difference would be he'd have another "result", which may or may not be to our benefit, depending on his alignment. At that point, he could be bussing someone, or he could be telling the truth, or he could just say "insufficient" again. It's really easy to fake, and it's hard to figure out if it's true or not.
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why is gone. I'm why now.
I'm in full support of lynching Darm, but bum makes things so volatile that lynching him simplifies the situation very nicely. That's the logic behind the lynch, anyways. (I think)
If I can get enough people behind it, I'd much rather lynch Darm, but I'm not going to waste my vote if it's a lost cause.
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On April 30 2011 09:50 VarpuliS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 09:42 Ace wrote: How did you come to the conclusion there is a 50% chance of getting red? Somebody posted that statistic a while ago. People need to stop using statistics is evidence. They can only get us so far. Analytical reasoning > statistical reasoning in a game of mafia, imo. Agreed, but it shouldn't be discounted so easily either.
As for how that is roughly 50%:
There are currently 13 players left. Assumption is that there are 3 mafia and 1 GF left.
Chance of mafia coming up with "Insufficient Analysis"
3 (number of normal mafia) * 0.25 (chance of then having the result of Insufficient Analysis) * 1/12 (chance of the DT checking any individual)
+
1 (GF) * 1.00 (chance of having the result of Insufficient Analysis) * 1/12
= 14.6% (through absolutely random checking).
Chances of a townie coming up with "Insufficient Analysis"
8 (number of non-DT townies left) * 0.25 (chance of having the result of Insufficient Analysis) * 1/12 (chance of the DT checking any individual)
= 16.7% (also through absolutely random checking).
Therefore there is a ~47% chance of Jackal being red, assuming bum is really the DT.
So, the real question is whether you believe bum or not. Given the situation, a ~50% chance is pretty damn good.
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EBWOP - Crap, I didn't use the right numbers. With 1 less town than what I used, there's actually a slightly better chance of hitting a red.
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I don't believe bum. Even if he is telling the truth he didn't get a guilty result on jackal which is the crux of the issue here. They could both be townies and end the game with 2 mislynches.
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On April 30 2011 07:07 Ace wrote:bum what many other things? You have nothing. I know you're lying because your claim just. doesn't. make. sense. There is no "townie reaction here". The only reaction is that you said and I'll say this again: 1.) you investigated Jackal 2.) got an inconclusive result In no way can you say Jackal is Scum for sure now. You got an IC result, figured Jackal must be the CL then went from there. That isn't actual Scum hunting is it? You're trying to fit Jackal into what you think happens to be Scummy instead of finding Jackal to be scum. Big difference here. GGQ that part you bolded actually isn't a strong part of his analysis at all. Other players have talked about the CL, tnkted pulled some move earlier that was a "bread crumb", even GM made a list of DT checks and talked about the Intelligence Agent taking a shot Night 1: So in what way does bum decide that jackal stands out more than any of them? You and everyone else need to change your votes. Especially with this little gem right here: Show nested quote + That you immediately assumed I was lying was what made me really think you were scum, instead of looking at both sides in the thread, like every other townie did, like varp, GGQ and impervious. Now you went back on that, so yeah I think you slipped there. But you shouldn't be lynched until after jackal.
It's Day 2. How do you know they are all town? Only way you would know that if is you know who is all Scum. Hello Mr. Cell Leader.
Yeah, tnkted has been playing weirdly, but that's not the issue right now. Jackal has been focused on the CL to a strange degree, he's not playing like he usually does, his one attack in this game has been weak and self-undermining. I don't trust him. He's also overreacting to getting voted when I don't think he was ever leading the lynch.
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On April 30 2011 08:48 Jackal58 wrote: Mafia isn't supposed to be a morality play. So why do I feel scummy voting for Bum? I feel like I'm doing a huge omgus but I also feel like I have no other choice. Bum is not my first choice for my vote. But I really need to know what he is.
##VOTE: Bumatlarge
This is such a bad bad vote. Just because you are pointing out that your move is scummy doesn't stop it from being scummy.
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I'm not 100% sold on him either. But I still think that lynching him is a mistake.
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Ace (1) tnkted
bumatlarge (6) ace sandroba Varpulis Eiii Mr. Wiggles Jackal58
jackal (3) bum GGQ Impervious
Bum currently leads. Darm and Vain need to vote. Day ends in 2 and a half hours.
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How many people voting for bumatlarge would rather vote for somebody else? I think that there are enough of us to overturn the lynch. I think that it'd be far better to lynch Darmousseh than bumatlarge. He's not been playing smart, but he's been more active and helpful than Darm.
Also, he's liable to get modkilled anyways, and if he does, and we lynch bum, and mafia gets another town kill tonight... we're at lylo, if I'm not mistaken.
I feel like lynching darm is simply safer. after all, its a 45% chance that he's scum
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EBWOP: People currently voting for Jackal58 switching would be helpful too.
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While I don't like the idea of lynching darm right now, I really think it would be worse to lynch bum, so you can count me in. I'll check back before midnight, and switch my vote if it'll help.
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If impervious + me switch, bum is still leading the vote 4-2. We'll need 2 more votes on Darm to tip the scales.
Any takers?
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i don't really have time to play this game. voting bumatlarge
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Goddamnit, now we need 3 more votes on Darmousseh. I really don't want to take this guy to LYLO.
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Read over Zorkmid's posts on day1, they seem consistent with a dt to me.
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Hour and a half left to end of day, Vain needs to vote
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On April 30 2011 11:32 GGQ wrote: Read over Zorkmid's posts on day1, they seem consistent with a dt to me.
which posts? point them out
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Aw, jackal vote yourself like a man. I hope you guys at least rally up so you know what to do after you do this.
Jackal Ace Wiggles maybe sandroba, but not sure.
Ace succeeds at convincing town to lynch the DT again. Props Ace.
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On April 30 2011 11:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 11:32 GGQ wrote: Read over Zorkmid's posts on day1, they seem consistent with a dt to me. which posts? point them out
So much more work! I was hoping it'd be obvious to people who looked, but ok.
In general, he posts with a low profile, contributing but not sticking his neck out. Then there are these two posts in particular:
On April 27 2011 02:21 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:04 GMarshal wrote:On April 27 2011 01:01 Zorkmid wrote: Sandroba, I think you're town. You thought the same thing about me last game too and you were town then.
By the way, you're dead wrong again. Weigh in then please, who do you think is mafia? Why? Lynch is in less than 10 hours, who would you like to see dead? While I'm throwing questions around, if you were a DT who would you check tonight? If you were a busdriver what two people would you swap? why? If I had to guess right now who is mafia I'd say that Tkdted is the most likely. The problem is that I'm afraid that he's equally likely to be a helpful role. Beyond him, I'd say that Mr. Wiggles is a good candidate for no other reason of inactivity. I'm also suspicious of Sandroba, who tried to cast me as mafia in the "surprising normal game I", I feel like he is acting much like he was last game, so maybe he's changing things up on purpose. If I were a DT, a good idea would be to check Tkdted because of his strange claim, maybe sandroba. If I was stuck for someone to check, I'd pick someone with a low post count (Im not quite sure who that is right now, but I'd find that out)
On April 27 2011 03:17 Zorkmid wrote: Strategy to make the DTs waste checks on you perhaps?
The second one in particular makes it seem like he is already thinking like a dt, presumably because he is one.
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mentioning DTs doesn't make you a DT
@bum: *yawn*
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Well, by the look of it, we're going to find out the truth about bum tonight.
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On April 30 2011 12:04 Ace wrote:mentioning DTs doesn't make you a DT @bum: *yawn*
You mock me! ANGER RISING.
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On April 30 2011 12:04 Ace wrote:mentioning DTs doesn't make you a DT @bum: *yawn*
No, but isn't it weird that that's his reaction to tnkted's claim? What a convoluted thought process if he isn't a dt.
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what claim? tnkted never claimed. You keep making that mistake in your reading.
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On April 30 2011 12:18 Ace wrote: what claim? tnkted never claimed. You keep making that mistake in your reading.
Not the point, dude.
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And im the one who doesnt read the thread properly ace? God I hope your scum.
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it is. Zorkmid can't "react like a DT" if there isn't a role claim.
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On April 30 2011 12:19 Ace wrote: it is. Zorkmid can't "react like a DT" if there isn't a role claim.
Re-read the context of that post. It doesn't matter whether it was a role claim or not. Call it a 'gambit' then. Zorkmid's post suggests that he thinks tnkted's entire gambit was an attempt to draw and waste a dt check. I mean, really?
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I thought it was a gambit also and called it a terrible play. Doesn't mean anything as far as Zorkmid being a DT. Nothing Zorkmid posted "suggests" he is a DT. On Day 1 with no checks thats a far stretch.
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On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role.
On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES
On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:45 Impervious wrote:On April 25 2011 07:38 GMarshal wrote:On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. Bread-crumbing already huh? LYNCH HIM! Too bad I noticed "I got a strange role" is a five word phrase! trying to communicate with your buddies... ##Vote: tnkted Honestly, I'm not sure what to think at this point. A phrase like that indicates he's not a normal citizen, however, I'm not sure what he actually is. I mean, I can't see a single reason why any role would say that..... It gives away that you have a role..... It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2.
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Who do you propose to lynch then? We'll still be in this situation tomorrow of Bum doesn't get shot by scum, and then we'll have to rely on him getting a definite check or not. This way, we'll know if we need to shoot Jackal tonight or not for sure. I'm ok with letting bum live tonight, but we're going to go through the same thing tomorrow if he's still alive then, so we need some definite targets.
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I already made a proposed lynch list wiggles. I'm a DT, and jackal admitted it. I don't know why he did, but he did.
So now town will lynch me and see I am Analyst. tnkted gets shot tomorrow so then the remaining players will be this
[X] 1. Impervious [X] 2. Jackal58 [X] 3. Mr. Wiggles [X] 4. GGQ [X] 5. Ace [X] 6. Eiii [X] 7. why VarpuliS [X] 8. Vain [X] 9. darmousseh [X] 10. Sandroba
So if you mislynch after me, it's lylo. You shouldn't even mislynch though, since I gave town a solid scum list.
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Mass switch to vain. Now. He's gonna get modkilled anyways, and we need to delay lylo. If mafia wants bum dead, let them use their kill tonight.
##Unvote: bumatlarge ##Vote: Vain
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Except for the part where I'm green. That's also why I didn't like your whole breadcrumb thing. If you're trying to imply I'm scum from that, when I know I'm town, then it undermines the entire thing in my eyes. That's why I opposed it pretty strongly. If you're wrong about me, large parts of it fall down.
Also, for your proposed lynch list, I'm supposed to lynch either
A) Myself B) Jackal that doesn't give us any information about you. If it's not you being lynched, I'd rather wait until you have a solid check we can lynch to try to confirm you. C) Ace, who I think is mostly town, but would like to see a check on anyways. Also one of the only active people.
I also don't get why you thought it was a good idea to try to draw fire off of tnkted. You don't know if he's blue, he still hasn't role-claimed and is pretty much lurking, and even if he's blue, you don't know what his role is. Maybe he's a vet or something and wants to get hit, did you ever think of that? Regardless, you just screwed town out of their DT for an unknown role if that's what you are.
I'll switch to darm, but if you're still alive tomorrow and don't have any relevant information, I'm hanging you.
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On April 30 2011 12:32 bumatlarge wrote: I already made a proposed lynch list wiggles. I'm a DT, and jackal admitted it. I don't know why he did, but he did.
So now town will lynch me and see I am Analyst. tnkted gets shot tomorrow so then the remaining players will be this
[X] 1. Impervious [X] 2. Jackal58 [X] 3. Mr. Wiggles [X] 4. GGQ [X] 5. Ace [X] 6. Eiii [X] 7. why VarpuliS [X] 8. Vain [X] 9. darmousseh [X] 10. Sandroba
So if you mislynch after me, it's lylo. You shouldn't even mislynch though, since I gave town a solid scum list. I never admitted anything Bum. How can I admit you're a DT. I have no idea if you are a DT or not. My initial reaction was yes you are a DT. Yes you got an insufficient evidence check back. That is not an admission that you are a DT. I can't make that admission because I don't know if you are a DT or not. As the day has gone on my initial reaction has been tempered some what by wtf are you thinking. And now you say I admitted you are a DT. How the hell can I admit that? Lemme guess. You read tea leaves too.
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uh oh, time for votes to be toyed with!
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Alright, I'm all for a switch to vain.
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Last minute mass vote switches always make me so fucking nervous.
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Ugh you guys get a nice majority on me and now you're getting squeamish? Throw your testicles back on your groins please.
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If vain doesn't get a majority I'll switch back to bum a couple minutes out, but I'm really iffy about today's lynch and would rather just lynch vain since he's going to die anyway.
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On April 30 2011 12:46 bumatlarge wrote: Ugh you guys get a nice majority on me and now you're getting squeamish? Throw your testicles back on your groins please.
stop your QQing. Waiting for this guillotine to drop in silence is much appreciated.
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Alright, no vain lynch then :/
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If you're really the DT bum why didn't you check me again before you did this to us.
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Cause your scum broski
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Night 2
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS Today at 15:00 PM, protestors took to the streets. Upset over the handling of the terrorist situation, citizens decided to take matters into their own hands and soon rioting began. After reaching downtown, cars were flipped and local stores were looted. The state reports that the cost of recontruction of the destroyed areas will be massive. Federal troops were sent in to calm the protestors down but soon things took a turn for the ugly. Fueled by fear and alcohol, the protestors turned against the federal troops and in the chaos many were hurt and injured. Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd but causualities were substained. In particular, Intelligence Analyst bumatlarge and Vain were found dead, trampled to death by the crowd. We send our best wishes to both their families.
I know things have gotten rough and we were in troubled times. But we must remember our humanity for if we forget, we will be no different than the very terrorists that are trying to destroy our way of living. This is iGrok of the Channel 4 News Team, signing off. Coverage will continue tomorrow and to everyone out there, good luck and good night.
bumatlarge the Intelligence Analyst is dead Vain the Townie has been modkilled
Night ends at 05:00 GMT (+00:00) tomorrow, be sure to get in your night actions
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No I'm not. I've been scum once and didn't make it through the first day. If I was the CL you guys would probably have every name before the game started.
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[X] 1. Impervious [X] 2. Jackal58 [X] 3. Mr. Wiggles [X] 5. GGQ [X] 6. Ace [X] 8. Eiii [X] 11. VarpuliS [X] 12. tnkted [X] 15. darmousseh [X] 16. Sandroba
10 players left
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If we have any vig out there, shoot carefully. There's most likely 4 scum which means that if a vig shoots wrong, we lose (barring medic/vet).
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Wiggles, I'm not sure how I feel about you. Can you give me an analysis on Impervious, please? What do you think about him?
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Fuck.....
Guys.....
Even if you don't trust bum's analysis and his check, at least lets get Ace tomorrow..... Have you not seen his recent posting?
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Analysis of Impervious
I'm just going to go through his major posts, where he brings up new points and ideas.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote: I'm going to throw some thoughts out there.
I think in this setup; the sleeper agents would want the game to go on as long as possible. This would allow more communication, as well as the ability to only kill non-agent positions (rather than mislynch). Once they've identified each other, this will quickly change, however.
Then again, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that the intelligence analyst can identify the reds and then claim who they all are. The downside is that they need to claim and give the town their info before they die.....
I'm not sure how this is going to play out, but it's going to require a different play style than a conventional mafia game. I'm not sure who will benefit more from a shorter game, and who will benefit more from a longer game.
Also, I'd be looking for any unusual word choices/phrases that a player could use to help identify themselves to/complete a clue they left the sleeper agents. Unfortunately, we probably won't know what the clues will really mean, but it could lead us to the cell leader, or a red faking as the cell leader to take pressure off the leader.
That all being said, I think we need to at least pressure people during the day. While it would suck to pressure a blue role, it's more likely that we'd pressure a red role, which could lead us to an early advantage through a good lynch. And anyone who is lurking will not be an asset to the town, so they're definitely good choices to pressure, if we don't have a lead on anyone else.
I know there was something else I thought of earlier, but I didn't write it down, and I didn't post it cause iGrok told us to stop posting until the game started -_-
Doesn't make a strong point about game length or how play style will be different, but he does bring up the idea of hidden word and messages for the first time. I like this, because it shows that he's actually thinking. He then makes a statement about pressure and lurkers, which I like, but is a general statement you see every game for the most part.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts?
Everyone was caught up on breadcrumbing and seemed stuck on the subject, so Impervious comes in and asks people about "insufficient analysis". I like this, because the breadcrumb discussion had stopped going anywhere, so he promotes a different town discussion instead, to get us back on track.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 22:57 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:47 GMarshal wrote:On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread.
I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT.
The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Thoughts? I think the DT should just push for a lynch on the target 75% chance of having the cell leader is worth the gamble of accidentally getting a town player lynched, IMO. Sure it might suck for the town player getting the shit end of the stick, but hey, we die for the greater glory and all that. I also think this is usless discussion that allows scum to blend in, I'm sure the mafia is content to debate this to death, rather than worrying about us sabotaging their cutesy plans. Still I want to see what you guys awnser to Ace's question Actually, you're wrong with the "75%" thing. There's a 1/15 chance that the cell leader will be checked tonight (based on pure percentages). There's a 14/15 chance that a non cell leader will be checked tonight (also based on pure percentages). If the cell leader is checked, it will show up as insufficient analysis. If a non cell leader is checked, it'll show up as insufficient analysis in 25% of the checks. Ultimately, this means that a result of insufficient analysis tonight leads to a 22.2% chance of actually being the cell leader..... IT IS NOT 75%. However, lynching them is still the best move. Assuming 4 sleeper cells and the cell leader, out of a total of 15 people who could be checked, it adds up to about a 50% chance of hitting a red by lynching anyone who gets "insufficient analysis" tonight. When you add in factors like intentionally checking scummy players (increasing your chance of checking the right people), then this is by far the best choice.
Makes a comment about the statistics of the DT check. I don't think it says too much about his alignment, as it doesn't say anything about his own opinions, but I'm inclined to believe scum would rather just let town think that the old, incorrect, percentages were true, as they favoured scum more in my eyes.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 23:25 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 22:49 GMarshal wrote: I realize its night time, but that is no reason to shut up and stop discussion, we have all of twenty four hours to start deciding things like lynches and blue direction. For the sake of discussion I am going to post a list of people I think need DT checks, vigi shots and medic protects.
DT Checks
Jackal58 - Ace thinks Jackal has been acting scummy, for this reason alone I think a dt should take a look at jackal, the results would be interesting either way
Mr. Wiggles - I already pointed out that I am suspicious of him, it would be nice to know definitely, as I know wiggles has the potential to contribute to the town if he is town aligned, if he is not he is very good about scooting along with large vacuous posts
GMarshal - DTs should aways check the most vocal players. I consider myself a vocal player, therefore I should be checked
Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch.
Impervious- he has many posts, yet oddly enough, not a single one of them stuck in my mind, to me this means his posts have been empty enough to not be memorable, I think that merits a check
Vigilante Shots - now its *really* debated whether it is best for vigilantes to shoot night one or not, if the vigi is not in imminent danger and is not confident on his mafia kill I belive in saving the shot for later, however some people subscribe to using it for people they would lynch on policy, e.g. liars, or lurkers. If a vigi *had* to fire tonight I would think the best shot would be at an inactive who might be lurking scum. That is the gist of my suggestions on here
Eiii- Lurking, pops up to defend himself, resumes lurking, not a town asset at the moment, so we can do without him
GGQ- more of the same deal with Eiii, lurking inactively, hasn't really weighed in on anything.
why- with a grand total of four posts all he has done is attack jackal, I dont think he is contributing and we can do without him
Vain- I see every one of his posts as either a rehash of old ideas or a non-contribution
darm- because I think it would be hilarious to have him die day one this game too (don't actually shoot him for that, it was a joke...)
Medic Protects
GMarshal- I dont want to die, please dont let me die, I'll go through mafia withdrawal again and it wont be pretty
Ace- he is Ace, high profile target and all that, I want him around in the late game.
Jackal (maybe) - he is a great endgame player, and I wouldn't mind having him around to scum-hunt in the late game, I don't know how likely it is he will be targeted though.
other than that I don't know who scum might go after to be honest, as they risk hitting one of their own whatever they choose to do
Alright, so take a gander and debate my list up and down, who did I forget to include ? Who did I include who shouldn't be there?
I guess we're going to use traditional mafia lingo in this game..... For the DT checks, I'd also want to know about Ace. He is a great player, which is why I'd want to be sure he's on my side. He's also acting a little weird, and I'm not sure what to make of it at the moment. He would be my check tonight, for sure, unless something happens between now and the end of the night. I'm also confused about why. From what I've seen in the thread, he's held in somewhat high regard (this is my first time playing with him, and I haven't observed a game where he played either, so I don't know myself). With having few posts, and generally unconstructive posting (I know most of mine are also pretty useless, but I've got a lot of them, so I'll eventually write something useful, much like how a room full of monkeys with typewriters will eventually come up with the entire work of Shakespeare), it seems like it would be pretty uncharacteristic of an experienced player. I dont think the vigi is in danger yet..... The chance of getting hit tonight/lyched tomorrow is pretty low, and it will probably be far more useful to have the kill around for later. Also, while there are players we can do without, I really think it would be better to lynch them rather than waste a vigi kill on. So I'd agree, unless the Vigi has a really good lead on one of the members of the mafia, it would be better to save the hit for later. Also, while it would be nice to have a medic on our side (among other roles, such as a veteran), we don't know for sure. It would be better to assume that we don't. We're going to need to assume that we'll lose someone tonight, and at this point, it seems to be pretty unlikely that the mafia will force a kill on one of their own. Another thing to worry about - the mafia just lost a member. Unless Rean was the first person contacted by the GF (which I find very unlikely, although it is possible that the GF made that big of a mistake), then there are probably only 2 more people who have to be contacted..... Which means the mafia should know who each other are. While it's not as useful as being able to discuss at night, like most mafia games, it will help them tremendously. We have to assume that for tomorrow night, they'll be able to be somewhat coordinated.....
Makes a point about Ace and why, original thoughts. Thinks vigi should save his shot, his reasoning make sense, and I like it. Scum would like vigs to shoot randomly night 1, as it gives a higher chance that they hit town. Also makes a good point that scum will know each other more quickly than they would before since Rean died.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 29 2011 01:37 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 00:45 GGQ wrote: The simple fact that Ace didn't die is suspicious enough. Actually, as much as I think Ace is definitely a candidate for a lynch, this is a very bad reason for it. Out of the obvious top 4 players that the mafia would want to eliminate, 1 of them is gone. This does not automatically mean that the other 3 are suspicious.....
Points out bad logic and says why it's wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 30 2011 09:08 Impervious wrote: Guys, if bum is in fact the analyst, while there is only a ~25% chance that he's actually the cell leader, there is a ~50% chance of getting a red. That is a pretty damn good chance at the moment.
While it is stupid (imo) that bum claimed already, if he is the DT, he'll be a high priority target for the mafia, so they'll take him out at night.
I don't see the reasoning for a red claiming as DT. It seems like such a dumb move. It instantly paints a giant target on them when he's still alive the next day. And if the mafia don't eliminate him tonight, then they risk him actually finding a mafia (assuming that Jackal is green).
And, of course, if he's green, it could be an interesting play, if you really had a strong read on someone.
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch him. Voting for someone other than Jackal, based on some kind of analysis, would be fine if you don't believe bum, but lynching him is really fucking dumb right now.
This is the post that made me change my mind about lynching bum for sure. He brings up good points, as to why we should have let him at least live throughout the night, and how that would be in town's best interests.
Conclusion: Not the most active contributor, but most of his posts are well-reasoned and thought-out. He brings up new ideas and promotes healthy town discussion, as well as pointing out any errors in reasoning that he sees to the benefit of town. Townie
I'm not sure how this is going to help you get a read on me, but there it is.
I also think we should be discussing vig/dt targets for any blues that are still alive.
I think a DT should 100% check Ace if they haven't already. As far as we know, there's no framers, so any positive result should be correct.
As for vigs, I think we should discuss the merits of shooting Jackal or not now that we know that Bum's result was true. If we don't want to shoot Jackal, I'd say that Darm is a good choice for any vig that feels the need to use his shot tonight.
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Well, glad I came back as a townie this time. I played similar in my last game, and had someone come up with the exact opposite verdict lol.
We're on a tightrope right now, as the town.....
We have very little room for error, so if there happens to be a vigi left, plz make a good hit. If there's a doc, plz pick the right person. If there's a vet, plz attract enough attention to absorb a hit.
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Do you guys know who will be absolute dead weight come LYLO? darmousseh. He's the least helpful player in this game, but he managed to avoid a modkill at the last second. We need activity for analysis and decision making, and he's not allowing for either.
If even if he is town, he isn't being town friendly. I suggest a lynch on him tomorrow unless we find damning evidence against a scum.
I like wiggles' analysis of Impervious, and I agree completely.
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I think its time that we start posting scumlists! Here's mine:
CL Jackal/Ace - obvious reasons that have been gone over many times before. Ace is most dangerous.
Agents Eiii - Eiii's meta is to be lurkylurky and then appear suddenly with a very well thought out and expressive post that benefits town. He hasn't done that this game. Varpulis -
On April 29 2011 06:42 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 06:39 VarpuliS wrote:Hi guys! iGrok will probably release this in a few minutes, but I'm replacing in for why. All suspicion should now be transferred to me. I've only sort of been following this game, so I'll need to read through. Could somebody explain to me why i'm scummy? You made four posts day 1, then right as day 2 starts, you jump right into trying to lynch Ace forgoing Jackal who you voted for day 1. You were also on GM's vig list, and that makes me want to watch you more closely, because GM died, and the scum voting for him obviously felt pressured by him or thought he was an asset to town, the vig list being those he most pressured.
This is still true. I want to pressure Varpulis a little bit. Varp, who seems suspicious to you?
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On May 01 2011 07:40 tnkted wrote:I think its time that we start posting scumlists! Here's mine: CL Jackal/Ace - obvious reasons that have been gone over many times before. Ace is most dangerous. Agents Eiii - Eiii's meta is to be lurkylurky and then appear suddenly with a very well thought out and expressive post that benefits town. He hasn't done that this game.Varpulis - Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 06:42 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On April 29 2011 06:39 VarpuliS wrote:Hi guys! iGrok will probably release this in a few minutes, but I'm replacing in for why. All suspicion should now be transferred to me. I've only sort of been following this game, so I'll need to read through. Could somebody explain to me why i'm scummy? You made four posts day 1, then right as day 2 starts, you jump right into trying to lynch Ace forgoing Jackal who you voted for day 1. You were also on GM's vig list, and that makes me want to watch you more closely, because GM died, and the scum voting for him obviously felt pressured by him or thought he was an asset to town, the vig list being those he most pressured. This is still true. I want to pressure Varpulis a little bit. Varp, who seems suspicious to you?
What about darmousseh. He's using 'busy' as an excuse not to post much. The only time i've seen him do that is in insane 2, when he was scum.
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Are we posting scum lists now? Okay then, I'll make my own. I'm not making the distinction between agent and CL, unlike tnkted.
- Ace: Master of deception. I would say that he needs to get dt checked, but it's unlikely that we have any dts left. be wary.
- Eii: Has been lurking a lot, bandwagoned onto bumatlarge. FoS
- Darmousseh: Do I have to say it again. Most inactive player I've ever seen but manages to avoid the modkill. Not helpful at all, also bandwagoned bum.
- Jackal58: Could still be scum, his obsession with the CL as pointed out by bum is the only real strike against him for me (haven't seen him play before), but he's not in the clear yet in my book.
These are the guys I'll be keeping a real close eye on in the future.
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We need a good lynch tomorrow. No more of this divided bullcrap that led to the lynch of our beloved DT. Any of the scum players are probably laughing at us at the moment. We're beating ourselves up, more than they're winning.
I thought Ace was playing a little weird before. His "plan" to get the list of players we all consider to be useful scumbuddies led to no surprise, which is a pretty useless play from a player like him. And with how he was pushing for a lynch of bum, I'm 95% sure he's scum. Not sure about GF, but definitely red.
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I'll support a lynch on ace tomorrow.
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On May 01 2011 08:28 Ace wrote: *yawn*
Ace, what do you think of Wiggle's analysis on Impervious?
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meh. Done at night, if Impervious dies and flips town Wiggles looks like a hero for claiming he seemed pro-town.
But my analysis has Impervious as more than suspicious. Believing bumatlarge with to be a detective with bum's ridiculous claim seems to me as someone who already knew bum wasn't Scum. I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if bum had a guilty result - but he believed him too readily for someone with a null result.
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Day 3
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS Tonight, we continue our investigation of the Terrorist threat in Liquidville with a quick analysis of why Sleeper Cells are so effective.
Part of what makes a Terrorist sleeper agent so deadly is that individual Agents are not aware of each other's identity. Thus, when they are arrested, we cannot discover the names of other agents. We also cannot easily make assumptions based on their interactions with others. This makes Sleeper Cells very difficult to defeat. However, there are instances where this individualism can work against them as well.
Tonight, GGQ was found murdered on the street with a bullet lodged in his brain. A careful investigation of his home revealed unlicensed weapons, false passports, and blueprints of public offices. But what makes this even more interesting is that Deputy Director Chaoser denies that anyone from his office is responsible.
"If we were responsible, we would certainly claim full credit. And to be sure, we are out for blood after the murder of one of our agents. But find this situation to be more than satisfactory. Apparently, the terrorists have murdered one of their own! This is a terrific revelation for our society - we may still have a chance to defeat them after all."
The terrorist's lack of organization certainly provides me with a much-needed morale boost! Citizens, please keep your eyes peeled for ANY suspicious behavior. This is iGrok of the Channel 4 News team. You stay classy, Liquidville.
GGQ the Sleeper Agent is dead.
Day ends at 05:00 GMT (+00:00) May 3rd.
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On May 01 2011 13:00 GGQ wrote: f5 lol
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LOLOLOL IM ON THE FLOOR I CANNOT GET UP
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I guess this was the purpose of the setup, wasn't it? Scum can kill scum, imperfect information and all. Nice break for town. We've got enough breathing room now for another mislynch or a vigi hit.
I still think that killing off Darm would be very beneficial to town.
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*takes a bow*
Not sure about darm just yet. I'll get to it when I wake up in the morning though.
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Actually let me post now so I dont have to deal with Impervious trying to make up stuff from my posts:
Last night I shot GGQ and I know my bullet went through because I didn't get a message saying my hit failed.
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more serious than a 2 dollar bill homie
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Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own?
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Tonight, we continue our investigation of the Terrorist threat in Liquidville with a quick analysis of why Sleeper Cells are so effective.
Part of what makes a Terrorist sleeper agent so deadly is that individual Agents are not aware of each other's identity. Thus, when they are arrested, we cannot discover the names of other agents. We also cannot easily make assumptions based on their interactions with others. This makes Sleeper Cells very difficult to defeat. However, there are instances where this individualism can work against them as well.
Tonight, GGQ was found murdered on the street with a bullet lodged in his brain. A careful investigation of his home revealed unlicensed weapons, false passports, and blueprints of public offices. But what makes this even more interesting is that Deputy Director Chaoser denies that anyone from his office is responsible.
"If we were responsible, we would certainly claim full credit. And to be sure, we are out for blood after the murder of one of our agents. But find this situation to be more than satisfactory. Apparently, the terrorists have murdered one of their own! This is a terrific revelation for our society - we may still have a chance to defeat them after all."
The terrorist's lack of organization certainly provides me with a much-needed morale boost! Citizens, please keep your eyes peeled for ANY suspicious behavior. This is iGrok of the Channel 4 News team. You stay classy, Liquidville.
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Interesting... So what happened to the scum's nk? Do we have a medic after all? Tnkted, now would be a good time to tell us that hidden role of yours, I think.
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Lol, you guys should know that day/night posts are all flavor.
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On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own?
If you were the head of the FBI and had an undercover agent on the inside would you tell the press?
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ok, cause that was misleading. >.<
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Tnkted do not claim unless you were hit. If anyone was hit last night, please claim so. Either someone is a vet or medic, or mafia stacked with Ace.
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Mafia didn't stack with Ace, because that would override the vigi hit, and he would get his bullet back.
Tnkted stated earlier that he wanted to attract a hit, and that he was planning to claim in the thread. It looks like his gambit worked, at this point.
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Ok, so then someone else got hit and lived. So whoever got shot last night needs to claim. If that's tnkted, then he can claim, if it's anyone else, they need to claim.
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Well I've got more information to share but I'm going to bed. My role was pretty risky but I'm interested to know who else got some action last night before I reveal more.
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It's too convenient. I don't believe him.
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well gee that was a surprising answer coming from you
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yay! I didn't die on day/night 1. I'm so happy Tomorrow I'm going to write out my analysis of the game so far.
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I keep telling you guys. Scum are going to be the lurkers.
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Finally somebody who agrees with me!
I'm waiting for Darm's analysis and Ace's roleclaim, as well as whoever was hit claiming it, before I make my decision.
As of now, I've got a lurker square in my sights.
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On May 01 2011 13:22 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own? If you were the head of the FBI and had an undercover agent on the inside would you tell the press? So you're claiming to be some sort of double agent with a gun??? Wtf kind of claim is that? And if it's true why the fuck would you claim that? That makes less sense than bum claiming DT so early.(wtf bum ) You seriously want us to believe you are vigi/sooper spy? Day 1 you call me scummiest player in the game. Day 2 you tear bum a new one and lead the charge on his lynch after he calls me scum. Yet according to you I'm the scummiest player in the game. Day 3 you claim vig/sooper spy. Day 3 I call bullshit.
If you are on the "inside" as you say you're actions make no sense what so ever. You push the DT lynch over who you believe to be the scummiest player. If you are on the inside this just doesn't add up. You would have known bum and I were both town and pushed for a 3rd party for the lynch. Not one of us. I'm not buying it. If you have some sort of role that allows you to get info on the scum team and shoot them why would you claim it????
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Omg, i just got back from a weekend without internet. I'm so sorry guys and will sit out my ban(that's what happens right?). Well good luck town
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@Vain: sit out XXXIX, it's about to start.
@Jackal: Let's wait and see. I'm expecting a full claim from ace, somebody to claim they got hit, and possibly a claim from Tnkted. If nobody claims that they took a hit, then I will agree with you that Ace's claim is bullshit. Plenty of people are still sleeping now, I assume, so it'd be best to wait until all of the facts are on the table before coming to conclusions.
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On May 01 2011 22:30 VarpuliS wrote: @Vain: sit out XXXIX, it's about to start.
@Jackal: Let's wait and see. I'm expecting a full claim from ace, somebody to claim they got hit, and possibly a claim from Tnkted. If nobody claims that they took a hit, then I will agree with you that Ace's claim is bullshit. Plenty of people are still sleeping now, I assume, so it'd be best to wait until all of the facts are on the table before coming to conclusions. If Ace had just claimed vig I wouldn't be so fast to fos him. Like you I would wait a bit. But he added this bullshit:
On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own?
If you were the head of the FBI and had an undercover agent on the inside would you tell the press? [/QUOTE] That is pure bullshit and pure Ace as scum.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 01 2011 22:50 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 22:30 VarpuliS wrote: @Vain: sit out XXXIX, it's about to start.
@Jackal: Let's wait and see. I'm expecting a full claim from ace, somebody to claim they got hit, and possibly a claim from Tnkted. If nobody claims that they took a hit, then I will agree with you that Ace's claim is bullshit. Plenty of people are still sleeping now, I assume, so it'd be best to wait until all of the facts are on the table before coming to conclusions. If Ace had just claimed vig I wouldn't be so fast to fos him. Like you I would wait a bit. But he added this bullshit: Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own? If you were the head of the FBI and had an undercover agent on the inside would you tell the press? That is pure bullshit and pure Ace as scum. [/QUOTE] EBWOP Quote fail.
On May 01 2011 13:22 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own? If you were the head of the FBI and had an undercover agent on the inside would you tell the press?
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I'm waiting on iGrok to reply to my PM, I don't want to get modkilled for posting this.
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@tnkted: Did you get hit last night?
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I'm waiting to hear this as well.
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First of all, I'd like to apologise for not posting much for the last couple days. I'm not at home right now and I'm posting this through my phone. Second, I'm ex-marine (vet) and I got shot last night. My main FoS right now is Darmousseh, Eiii and Jackal58. I believe Imprevious to be town. I'll post some analysis when I arrive.
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On May 02 2011 01:30 sandroba wrote: First of all, I'd like to apologise for not posting much for the last couple days. I'm not at home right now and I'm posting this through my phone. Second, I'm ex-marine (vet) and I got shot last night. My main FoS right now is Darmousseh, Eiii and Jackal58. I believe Imprevious to be town. I'll post some analysis when I arrive. I don't think I'm buying this either. If a vig shot last night why would they shoot GGQ or you? I'm the one with a great big fucking target on my back.
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Okay then, now we've got some information. Sandroba's vet claim backs up Ace's vigi claim, so as of now I'm inclined to believe both of them.On May 01 2011 16:40 darmousseh wrote:yay! I didn't die on day/night 1. I'm so happy Tomorrow I'm going to write out my analysis of the game so far. I'm still waiting. If this doesn't get posted soon he's a priority lynch for me.
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On May 02 2011 02:05 VarpuliS wrote:Okay then, now we've got some information. Sandroba's vet claim backs up Ace's vigi claim, so as of now I'm inclined to believe both of them.Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 16:40 darmousseh wrote:yay! I didn't die on day/night 1. I'm so happy Tomorrow I'm going to write out my analysis of the game so far. I'm still waiting. If this doesn't get posted soon he's a priority lynch for me. Unless they are both scum.
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On May 02 2011 02:13 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 02:05 VarpuliS wrote:Okay then, now we've got some information. Sandroba's vet claim backs up Ace's vigi claim, so as of now I'm inclined to believe both of them.On May 01 2011 16:40 darmousseh wrote:yay! I didn't die on day/night 1. I'm so happy Tomorrow I'm going to write out my analysis of the game so far. I'm still waiting. If this doesn't get posted soon he's a priority lynch for me. Unless they are both scum. Fair point, I'll have to think this over.
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Impervious: What's with the voting without posting in the thread? Let us know what you're thinking, please.
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I figured that there may be a vet role in the game.
Unless we've got a better option, Jackal seems to be the next best lynch.
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I was just typing it up lol.
I'm less convinced that Ace is red now. Not 100% sure he's telling the truth, but more convinced that Jackal is really scum than Ace right now.
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On May 02 2011 02:04 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 01:30 sandroba wrote: First of all, I'd like to apologise for not posting much for the last couple days. I'm not at home right now and I'm posting this through my phone. Second, I'm ex-marine (vet) and I got shot last night. My main FoS right now is Darmousseh, Eiii and Jackal58. I believe Imprevious to be town. I'll post some analysis when I arrive. I don't think I'm buying this either. If a vig shot last night why would they shoot GGQ or you? I'm the one with a great big fucking target on my back.
um...what target?
Anyway I was going to shoot Impervious last night but switched to GGQ. 2 things that stood out to me:
1.) Asking about darmousseh. There are a couple of lurkers this game and he was the third person to ask about this specific lurker.
2.) My message intercepts
As an undercover agent I intercepted parts of 2 messages so far:
"watch the Canadian"
"likes men's magazine"
The first had something to do with either Impervious or Mr.Wiggles and I chose Impervious.
The second I figured pointed to GGQ
3.) When GGQ asked me my opinion of Wiggles analysis on Impervious that was my gut shot. For someone barely in the thick of things all game he chose an opportune time to get involved.
On May 01 2011 21:25 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:22 Ace wrote:On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own? If you were the head of the FBI and had an undercover agent on the inside would you tell the press? So you're claiming to be some sort of double agent with a gun??? Wtf kind of claim is that? And if it's true why the fuck would you claim that? That makes less sense than bum claiming DT so early.(wtf bum ) You seriously want us to believe you are vigi/sooper spy? Day 1 you call me scummiest player in the game. Day 2 you tear bum a new one and lead the charge on his lynch after he calls me scum. Yet according to you I'm the scummiest player in the game. Day 3 you claim vig/sooper spy. Day 3 I call bullshit. If you are on the "inside" as you say you're actions make no sense what so ever. You push the DT lynch over who you believe to be the scummiest player. If you are on the inside this just doesn't add up. You would have known bum and I were both town and pushed for a 3rd party for the lynch. Not one of us. I'm not buying it. If you have some sort of role that allows you to get info on the scum team and shoot them why would you claim it????
I'm an undercover Agent with 1 shot and get parts intercepted messages from the CL. So I have no more shots anyway and I'm pretty sure we're close to winning this especially seeing how panicked you are. If you are a townie you should be glad I chose correctly because if I missed I'd be automatically killed also. Something tells me you aren't though.
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Lol, so that's why you're suspicious of me?
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Well, if Ace is telling the truth, lets not make the same mistake that was made with bum. If Ace can still intercept messages, he can be of use to the town, so the Mafia will want to eliminate him.
So, even if you don't believe him, leaving him alive for the night is far more useful to us than killing him..... We'll get more information either way.
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On May 02 2011 02:36 Impervious wrote: Lol, so that's why you're suspicious of me?
Well thats not all of it. When you believed bum's claim so easily without a guilty result I found that ridiculous. If a detective pops up on Day 2 and says "player X is surely innocent!" does that sound believable?
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Jackal, that paranoia is counting against you now.
##Vote: Jackal58
Ace is pretty convincing, and it find it unlikely that both he and sandroba are scum. Ace's logic and explanation for his hit on GGQ are solid, and sandroba's been pretty pro-town, imo. That leaves Jackal seeming pretty accusatory and suspicious.
Jackal, I don't remember you ever being a big target for scum. Maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.
Ace is likely to die tonight, because he's going to keep intercepting messages from the Cell Leader until they kill him. Lynching him would be stupider than lynching bum was.
I haven't forgotten about you Darm, you'd still better post that analysis.
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Where, exactly, did I say I believed him?
On April 29 2011 11:31 Impervious wrote: Statistically, it's a far better choice to lynch anyone who got "insufficient analysis" than to try to check them again.
I say we go for it. Right now. Maybe get Ace tomorrow?
Although, bum, I don't like how you're already revealing yourself..... I don't think you were in any danger yet, so it seems unnecessary at this point.
On April 30 2011 00:53 Impervious wrote: Ok, for those of you who are skeptical of bum, what do you think about lynching him to prove it, to satisfy your curiosity?
If he really is the DT, his list and reasoning seems pretty solid, and I haven't seen any better ideas.....
Note - sarcasm isn't expressed well over the internet.
On April 30 2011 09:08 Impervious wrote: Guys, if bum is in fact the analyst, while there is only a ~25% chance that he's actually the cell leader, there is a ~50% chance of getting a red. That is a pretty damn good chance at the moment.
While it is stupid (imo) that bum claimed already, if he is the DT, he'll be a high priority target for the mafia, so they'll take him out at night.
I don't see the reasoning for a red claiming as DT. It seems like such a dumb move. It instantly paints a giant target on them when he's still alive the next day. And if the mafia don't eliminate him tonight, then they risk him actually finding a mafia (assuming that Jackal is green).
And, of course, if he's green, it could be an interesting play, if you really had a strong read on someone.
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch him. Voting for someone other than Jackal, based on some kind of analysis, would be fine if you don't believe bum, but lynching him is really fucking dumb right now.
Plz tell me where I said I believed him? I simply couldn't see a good reason to lynch him yet..... And his plan wasn't a bad one, nor was his analysis. What else should I have done?
Oh, I could have always done what you did. Which was actually lynch the fucking DT..... I guess lynching a blue role is the smart town play.
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why are you playing the result? You sure seemed convinced he was a DT before he popped.
I don't see the reasoning for a red claiming as DT. It seems like such a dumb move. It instantly paints a giant target on them when he's still alive the next day. And if the mafia don't eliminate him tonight, then they risk him actually finding a mafia (assuming that Jackal is green).
And, of course, if he's green, it could be an interesting play, if you really had a strong read on someone.
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch him. Voting for someone other than Jackal, based on some kind of analysis, would be fine if you don't believe bum, but lynching him is really fucking dumb right now. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh my bad, I guess posts like this don't mean you believe bum but that everyone else is stupid.
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His plan and analysis was to roleclaim because he got an inconclusive result that could have been because of a 25% chance RNG.
It was stupid and pretty scummy, to tell the truth. I don't agree with his lynch either, though.
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Varp why should we lynch darm over lets say Vain or any other lurker?
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Vain has been modkilled. Are there other lurkers left who I don't know about?
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Eiii? Then again compared to darm everyone else is active. I forgot Vain got modkilled.
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Not only has Darm been lurking, but the few posts that he's made have been sheeping and bandwagoning.
+ Show Spoiler [previous analysis] +On April 30 2011 07:04 VarpuliS wrote:##Vote: DarmoussehHardcore lurker here. Has contributed practically nothing. His posts: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 15:02 darmousseh wrote: Hi guys, last three games i either died or got lynched day 1, please don't, i'm town and I want to help town out.
Also FOS on anyone suggesting that we use vigilante right away as we have zero information right now.
That is all for now. He's town and he wants to help town... by not contributing anything. Very helpful /sarcasm Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 15:04 darmousseh wrote:On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote: Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you. In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight! Vain, I hope you aren't a dt because that is the most obvious blue tell ever in my opinion. How is this a blue tell? It's on day 1, and he's making a suggestion to the dt's. I'm not sure how that makes him blue. Not super helpful. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 16:10 darmousseh wrote:On April 25 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote: EBWOP: I also agree that pointing out vigilantes is not a blue tell, but neither is the post he quoted, which is basically the same thing. If he thinks that what vain did is a blue tell he wouldn't do it if he was blue. He would only do it if he wants to appear to be blue. I did it because it's the biggest blue tell in the world. "Hey guys, let's dt check someone, don't mind me". It's just bad play, that's it. I have no FoS on him, i'm just saying that if he is dt, then we are screwed because mafia would probably pick that up faster than I did. For this very reason, I recommend a dt checks vein because if he isn't the dt, then he's probably scum with the whole "don't mind me" phrase. Please note that the post of vain's that he quoted above was the only post vain had made. There's not evidence here that I'm ignoring. Still not sure how vain slipped that he was dt. This is a small contribution, there are flaws in the reasoning, and he never follows up on it. Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 01:33 darmousseh wrote:On April 26 2011 01:16 Rean wrote:On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that.
Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. How about you give us a reason as to why this is NOT a waste of time? How is knowing what everyone would pick in the hypothetical situation they're GF getting us anywhere close to catching scum? I'm in agreement with rean, this doesn't seem like it will help at all. It's better to just try to analyze behavior and get information. It is different than normal mafia, but tells shouldn't be any different than a normal game. The biggest difference is that the mafia can't bus anyone and they are likely to be as sheepy as the rest of town and so it will be difficult to determine scum behavior off of voting patterns only. Ace has already explained their purpose, so I won't again, but part of the idea was to get people talking. Darmousseh never posted a list. Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:58 darmousseh wrote: I like Gmarshal's post about wiggles, but I would take it farther since his posts seem suspect. Obviously I won't believe his list for sleeper agents, but I can take a guess that mr wiggles is probably scum.
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles I can't seem to find the post that he's referring to. This is sheeping though, and not a good contribution. I'm assuming that GMarshal was just pressuring Wiggles for inactivity, because he removed the vote promptly. Nobody ever argued that wiggles was scum (up until that point in the game at least) Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:20 darmousseh wrote:On April 27 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote: EBWOP: Another thought Maybe Tkdted is seeking the protection of a possible medic role? It's pretty obvious what he is, but apparently calling out people when they make themselves too obvious to the mafia is frowned upon. People need to stop making so many tells, seriously. What is he? I didn't catch that. He just said "my role is weird" I'm not sure about the tells thing. Darm seems to see them everywhere. That's all! No contribution, no analysis, just filler posts agreeing with other people or being paranoid about blues. Step it up. This still stands. His only post after is: On April 30 2011 10:56 darmousseh wrote: i don't really have time to play this game. voting bumatlarge An excuse and a bandwagon.
On May 01 2011 16:40 darmousseh wrote:yay! I didn't die on day/night 1. I'm so happy Tomorrow I'm going to write out my analysis of the game so far. Promise for an analysis that he still hasn't posted.
He's not an urgent lynch, but he's not helping the town. I'm torn right now between him and Jackal.
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EBWOP:His only posts after is are:
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On May 02 2011 02:56 Ace wrote:why are you playing the result? You sure seemed convinced he was a DT before he popped. Show nested quote + I don't see the reasoning for a red claiming as DT. It seems like such a dumb move. It instantly paints a giant target on them when he's still alive the next day. And if the mafia don't eliminate him tonight, then they risk him actually finding a mafia (assuming that Jackal is green).
And, of course, if he's green, it could be an interesting play, if you really had a strong read on someone.
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch him. Voting for someone other than Jackal, based on some kind of analysis, would be fine if you don't believe bum, but lynching him is really fucking dumb right now. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh my bad, I guess posts like this don't mean you believe bum but that everyone else is stupid. Yes, everyone who is town that bandwagoned him is stupid.
There, I said it.
For reasons stated above. We would have had a lot more useful information right now had he been spared. Regardless of what his actual role was.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 02 2011 02:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 02:04 Jackal58 wrote:On May 02 2011 01:30 sandroba wrote: First of all, I'd like to apologise for not posting much for the last couple days. I'm not at home right now and I'm posting this through my phone. Second, I'm ex-marine (vet) and I got shot last night. My main FoS right now is Darmousseh, Eiii and Jackal58. I believe Imprevious to be town. I'll post some analysis when I arrive. I don't think I'm buying this either. If a vig shot last night why would they shoot GGQ or you? I'm the one with a great big fucking target on my back. um...what target? Anyway I was going to shoot Impervious last night but switched to GGQ. 2 things that stood out to me: 1.) Asking about darmousseh. There are a couple of lurkers this game and he was the third person to ask about this specific lurker. 2.) My message intercepts As an undercover agent I intercepted parts of 2 messages so far: "watch the Canadian" "likes men's magazine" The first had something to do with either Impervious or Mr.Wiggles and I chose Impervious. The second I figured pointed to GGQ 3.) When GGQ asked me my opinion of Wiggles analysis on Impervious that was my gut shot. For someone barely in the thick of things all game he chose an opportune time to get involved. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 21:25 Jackal58 wrote:On May 01 2011 13:22 Ace wrote:On May 01 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Then why does the day post say that the sleeper agents shot one of their own? If you were the head of the FBI and had an undercover agent on the inside would you tell the press? So you're claiming to be some sort of double agent with a gun??? Wtf kind of claim is that? And if it's true why the fuck would you claim that? That makes less sense than bum claiming DT so early.(wtf bum ) You seriously want us to believe you are vigi/sooper spy? Day 1 you call me scummiest player in the game. Day 2 you tear bum a new one and lead the charge on his lynch after he calls me scum. Yet according to you I'm the scummiest player in the game. Day 3 you claim vig/sooper spy. Day 3 I call bullshit. If you are on the "inside" as you say you're actions make no sense what so ever. You push the DT lynch over who you believe to be the scummiest player. If you are on the inside this just doesn't add up. You would have known bum and I were both town and pushed for a 3rd party for the lynch. Not one of us. I'm not buying it. If you have some sort of role that allows you to get info on the scum team and shoot them why would you claim it???? I'm an undercover Agent with 1 shot and get parts intercepted messages from the CL. So I have no more shots anyway and I'm pretty sure we're close to winning this especially seeing how panicked you are. If you are a townie you should be glad I chose correctly because if I missed I'd be automatically killed also. Something tells me you aren't though. I'm not panicked. I'm not paranoid. You're confusing my incredulous reaction with a panicked or or paranoid reaction. You say you think we're close to winning. Define "we". If you had a shot and you were town I'd be dead. Then I would no longer be a lynch discussion. I call bullshit. Plain and simple. Did I want to get shot? Hell no. Did I expect to? Hell yes. This stinks so bad it's not even funny. Day 1 I was scummy. Day 2 bum and I could both be green. Day 3 you're a super spy. The only reason I'm not dead is so you can get me lynched. Let town do your scummy work for you. You're a vig like I'm Santa Claus. ##VOTE: Ace
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On May 02 2011 05:26 Ace wrote: Did I claim Vigilante? You're spewing so much bullshit you're forgetting what bullshit you already spread.
On May 01 2011 13:15 Ace wrote: Actually let me post now so I dont have to deal with Impervious trying to make up stuff from my posts:
Last night I shot GGQ and I know my bullet went through because I didn't get a message saying my hit failed.
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I didn't role claim Vigi. I said Undercover Agent. Learn to read thanks.
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On May 02 2011 05:32 Ace wrote: I didn't role claim Vigi. I said Undercover Agent. Learn to read thanks. And Bill Clinton never had sexual relations with that woman.
Call it whatever you want to. I don't care. You're claiming you have a role that allows you to be judge jury and executioner. I call bull shit.
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On May 02 2011 05:39 Ace wrote: *yawn* You need a dirt nap.
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Jackal, your defense is basically just saying that if he was town aligned, he would have hit you and not GGQ.
Can I get the reasoning behind that? Seriously, I feel like I'm missing something here. You claim townie, yet you say that because you didn't die, Ace's Undercover Agent claim is fake because he claims to have killed GGQ, even though GGQ was scum.
Refusing to accept the claim as well as the supporting evidence behind it and making what is basically an OMGUS vote makes me ever the more suspicious of you.
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To clarify: Ace having used his role to it's potential means that he's faking the role. great logic /sarcasm.
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Yes I'm happy GGQ died. But I don't believe for one second Ace was responsible.
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Do you believe sandroba's claim of being hit as a veteran? Because, if so, Ace's claim makes sense.
Either you think that sandroba and Ace are both mafia, or you think neither are at this point. I am leaning towards "neither".
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I want to see tnkted claim as well, because I think it might help clarify this situation. Also, if there's a DT that checked either san/ace, and got a positive return back, now would be a good time to claim your results, they'd help us figure out who's town or not.
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EBWOP I want to see *tnkted's* claim
He says he's going to claim, so I can only hope that he thought it through. If he is set on claiming however, I'd rather see that before I make any decisions in case it contains relevant information.
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On May 02 2011 05:58 Impervious wrote: Do you believe sandroba's claim of being hit as a veteran? Because, if so, Ace's claim makes sense.
Either you think that sandroba and Ace are both mafia, or you think neither are at this point. I am leaning towards "neither". No I don't believe him either. Simple scenario. CL knows who his agents are. He knows who they vote for. They voted for GGQ. Ace sends a simple message. Claim vet. He pulls this bs out of his ass. Boom 2 scum confirmed townies.
The role he is claiming is BS. It's imba out the wazoo. Hi. You're intelligence agent. You can intercept messages. Oh and here have a gun. Bull shit.
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Ok. Cool. I get that.
However, do we have a decent chance of finding the 3rd? Possibly. You're one of the candidates for that 3rd. There's a few others as well. We can always go after them today, rather than Ace and sandroba.
However, why would the mafia want someone who can intercept messages to survive for another night? If Ace becomes useless tomorrow, or dies tonight, we'll have our answer. And if sandroba dies tonight as well, we'll know enough as well.
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Ok, got permission from iGrok. Basically I'm a bulletproof miller.
Down-on-your-luck Stock Broker Everything was going you way in the mid 2000s. Then the economy tanked, you lost most of your wealth, and your wife divorced you and took what was left! Now you are stuck roaming the streets of Liquidville. Because you are homeless, everyone in town is suspicious of you – investigations on you will always return “Not Town”. Fortunately for you, though, at night you can disappear into the alleyways, making it impossible to find (and then shoot) you!
I am not informed if I get hit. I am not immune to night actions, just bullets. The crumb i posted earlier was the capital letters from this role pm.
My play this game should be much clearer now. I wanted to avoid DT checks but attract bullets. Luckily it looks like the vigs all targeted other people, so I didn't waste any town resources. I didn't want to post this quite yet, in the hope that scum would try to hit me again, but I decided that wasn't likely to happen since I've made it too obvious what I was. Its time to post it now though because I'm distracting people with my role and its better to just have this all out in the open.
The strange role comment is because I've never heard of a bulletproof miller before. Thats weird but also really smart!
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Whoever thought of that role is an evil genius.
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That's better than a bus driver on hallucinogens tnkted.
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We've got relatively few players left at this point, and all the information I expected to get today is on the table, so I'm going to post my general reads on everybody, in case anyone was wondering.
Impervious: He's a little suspicious because of his eagerness to side with bum + the breadcrumb Ace intercepted, but I'm getting a town vibe from him, and his posts have been generally constructive and town friendly, if you discount a few early game spam posts/1 liners.
Jackal58: He handled the bumatlarge accusation well, but his response to Ace's claim has been very suspicious to me. Looking through his previous posts, I get a scummy vibe. I could go through post-by-post and elaborate if people really want me too, but in the interest of time I'll just leave it at that for now.
Mr. Wiggles: He was quite quiet early on, but his activity rose sharply after his finals ended, and he's been posting with quality and frequency since then. I'm calling this strong town play.
Ace: I'm inclined to believe Ace's roleclaim, because the evidence fits and his logic and reasoning are solid. I don't agree with the lynch on bum which he spearheaded, but bum could easily have been scum, and the illogic and stupidity of his DT claim didn't help his case. Also, Sandroba's vet claim supports Ace's claim.
Eiii: Lurking. Not town friendly. Occasionally pops in with a post, but has made some questionable decisions, and isn't being helpful to the town. Not much more to say about him, because he hasn't given me much to analyze.
VarpuliS: I'm pretty sure that I'm town. Still on the fence though. I'll post later with an update + Show Spoiler +
tnkted: His actions make a lot of sense now seeing as his role is a miller who can absorb infinity nightkills. He wanted to attract hits with his blueclaim early on but stay inconspicous enough that DT's wouldn't check him. I'm buying that role. It's just as weird as he said, and I understand now why he didn't claim it earlier.
darmousseh: This dude is lurking so hardcore that he's worse than useless. He's just an extra vote for the bandwagon, and a player who we need to get rid of soon. Either today or tomorrow, we need to lynch him before lylo. I cannot stress that enough. Also, he never posted the analysis he promised to.
Sandroba: His vet claim makes a lot of sense, considering the events of last night. He's been quite pro-town with his posting, but then again I only skimmed the first half of them because I don't need further convincing. Maybe I'm just naive.
And that just about wraps it up! One of those names is almost definitely mislabeled, and it's probably either Impervious or Eiii, because one of the two of them is almost certainly the third mafia member.
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The fact that I'm calling Ace's to good to be true claim bullshit doesn't make me scum. The fact that you're buying it makes me question if you still believe in the Easter bunny.
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Analyze Jackal if you think he's scum, I'm interested in what it looks like to you.
I'd also like to see Darm's and San's analysis that they promised, they could be very revealing to me about who the scum are.
Also, If the host doesn't mind, can San post the flavor text from his role? I'm somewhat curious at the moment if it's a fake claim or not, because "Ex-Marine" is the bulletproof role from Survivor mafia, so either iGrok reused the name, or else it looks like San needed a name for a claim and found that one.
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I think tnkted may have learned a lot from Kavs use of prefabricated role claiming in Insane II I don't know where I'm at with him yet.
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Sandroba isn't in Survivor mafia, iirc, but he might have been reading through it, it's true.
Analysis of Jackal coming soon, as requested.
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Don't forget the breadcrumbs.
ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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Ok, got permission from iGrok (to post).
I assume the same rules are allowed to anyone wanting to claim
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Jackal58 Analysis skipped. After reading through the thread, specifically the last 10 pages, I'm starting to get more of a town vibe from Jackal. He didn't support the bum lynch, and although his opinion about ace/sandroba differs from my own, he's got a good point. I was just sort of calling him scum for disagreeing with me, mostly, and seeing scumtells where there were none. Very bad play on my part.
Now I've got to figure out who the scum actually are. Jackal as scum makes all my assumptions work out, but if he's town then at least one and probably more of my previous reads is dead wrong. Take that stuff with a large grain of salt, folks.
For now, my vote goes back to guess who? Darmousseh.
##Unvote: Jackal58 ##Vote: darmousseh
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Oops, I forgot all the breadcrumbs. nvm, Jackal is definitely scum. + Show Spoiler +
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I'm posting this drunk but I hope it makes sense. Tomorrow I'll post a more thourough analysis if needed. I previously stated taht I believed jackal to be town but after seen ace's LOL messages I am convinced taht he's mafia.
On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share.
On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. I thought at first he was too careless and naive to be mafia, but after seen the messages from ace and the fact that he came back as "insuficient information" from bum's check, I believe him to be the cell leader. Those messages are so bad it makes sense that jackal is scum. I've read other games and his meta is definitively diferent than when he was town so I believe he is scum. Jackal if you realy are cell leader, I must say you should be ashamed of yourself because those messages are LOL.
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BrownBear is subbing in for darmousseh.
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Oh boy. Please be more active, BrownBear.
Off to bed for me now.
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Hey san, can you give us your full role?
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soooooo what are we doing today?
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On May 02 2011 13:58 sandroba wrote:I'm posting this drunk but I hope it makes sense. Tomorrow I'll post a more thourough analysis if needed. I previously stated taht I believed jackal to be town but after seen ace's LOL messages I am convinced taht he's mafia. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. I thought at first he was too careless and naive to be mafia, but after seen the messages from ace and the fact that he came back as "insuficient information" from bum's check, I believe him to be the cell leader. Those messages are so bad it makes sense that jackal is scum. I've read other games and his meta is definitively diferent than when he was town so I believe he is scum. Jackal if you realy are cell leader, I must say you should be ashamed of yourself because those messages are LOL. I am not the cell leader. I am not scum. Those messages are pure fabrication by Ace. I also resent the implication that I'm stupid. "Herp derp. Stoopid messages Jackal must be the cell leader derp" You're scum. I know it. You know it. Ace knows it. Claiming Vig/vet tandem is as old as this game is. They're both one and done roles that require no further actions from you guys because you would have none. So easy peasy claims to make. If Ace was vig/sooper spy or whatever he wants to call it he would have claimed his shot moments before the day post went up. Anything after that is suspect. You popping up with a vet claim right after his sooper spy claim is just as bogus. You two are scum.
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On May 02 2011 23:15 Ace wrote: soooooo what are we doing today? Hopefully lynching you.
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I want Sandroba to post his full role. At the moment, I'm not sure if I believe him or not, because it seems pretty weird for several reasons. Firstly, why did scum hit him? He was lurking so hard on day 2 that when he posted his vet claim, I needed to check the player list to make sure he was actually in the game. So, I don't get why two or more members of the mafia thought that it was best to hit him, but not any other, more active, player. Next is the name of the role, which doesn't say much by itself, but my gut reaction is to be suspicious, especially with such a short claim.
So, I'd like to ask san to post the full text of his role, because that might help clear things up or not. If he's lying, then I think our scum team is Ace/San/Varp.
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Also, there's no reason for a townie not to give his full role out if he needs to, especially if he's just a vet. Scum might be reluctant, because then they need to fake-claim, and there's a chance they screw something up in the role description.
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On May 02 2011 23:25 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 13:58 sandroba wrote:I'm posting this drunk but I hope it makes sense. Tomorrow I'll post a more thourough analysis if needed. I previously stated taht I believed jackal to be town but after seen ace's LOL messages I am convinced taht he's mafia. On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. I thought at first he was too careless and naive to be mafia, but after seen the messages from ace and the fact that he came back as "insuficient information" from bum's check, I believe him to be the cell leader. Those messages are so bad it makes sense that jackal is scum. I've read other games and his meta is definitively diferent than when he was town so I believe he is scum. Jackal if you realy are cell leader, I must say you should be ashamed of yourself because those messages are LOL. I am not the cell leader. I am not scum. Those messages are pure fabrication by Ace. I also resent the implication that I'm stupid. "Herp derp. Stoopid messages Jackal must be the cell leader derp" You're scum. I know it. You know it. Ace knows it. Claiming Vig/vet tandem is as old as this game is. They're both one and done roles that require no further actions from you guys because you would have none. So easy peasy claims to make. If Ace was vig/sooper spy or whatever he wants to call it he would have claimed his shot moments before the day post went up. Anything after that is suspect. You popping up with a vet claim right after his sooper spy claim is just as bogus. You two are scum.
I've read my post yesterday and I realise I was very out of line and I apologize. I didn't mean you are stupid, but maybe you were not so experienced playing on the mafia side. I've read some of your previous games and your meta is definitively different form when you were town. Also, the fact that you were pushing me hard to reveal info helpful to the cell leader makes sense if you are scum.
On May 03 2011 00:26 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I want Sandroba to post his full role. At the moment, I'm not sure if I believe him or not, because it seems pretty weird for several reasons. Firstly, why did scum hit him? He was lurking so hard on day 2 that when he posted his vet claim, I needed to check the player list to make sure he was actually in the game. So, I don't get why two or more members of the mafia thought that it was best to hit him, but not any other, more active, player. Next is the name of the role, which doesn't say much by itself, but my gut reaction is to be suspicious, especially with such a short claim.
So, I'd like to ask san to post the full text of his role, because that might help clear things up or not. If he's lying, then I think our scum team is Ace/San/Varp.
Ex-Marine You came back from the war, only to find your hometown overrun by terrorists! You have found that it is difficult to adapt to civilian life, however your experiences in the war make you hard to kill. It takes 2 successful hits to take you out. You will be notified when you lose your "extra life".
The only reason I can think of me being shot last night was to narrow down the scum list previously posted by bum. Assuming jackal is scum that would link you and ace directly to him if he got lynched today.
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Sup fools. Time to read the shit out of this thread.
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On May 03 2011 01:36 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:25 Jackal58 wrote:On May 02 2011 13:58 sandroba wrote:I'm posting this drunk but I hope it makes sense. Tomorrow I'll post a more thourough analysis if needed. I previously stated taht I believed jackal to be town but after seen ace's LOL messages I am convinced taht he's mafia. On April 25 2011 21:46 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. Please share. On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. I thought at first he was too careless and naive to be mafia, but after seen the messages from ace and the fact that he came back as "insuficient information" from bum's check, I believe him to be the cell leader. Those messages are so bad it makes sense that jackal is scum. I've read other games and his meta is definitively diferent than when he was town so I believe he is scum. Jackal if you realy are cell leader, I must say you should be ashamed of yourself because those messages are LOL. I am not the cell leader. I am not scum. Those messages are pure fabrication by Ace. I also resent the implication that I'm stupid. "Herp derp. Stoopid messages Jackal must be the cell leader derp" You're scum. I know it. You know it. Ace knows it. Claiming Vig/vet tandem is as old as this game is. They're both one and done roles that require no further actions from you guys because you would have none. So easy peasy claims to make. If Ace was vig/sooper spy or whatever he wants to call it he would have claimed his shot moments before the day post went up. Anything after that is suspect. You popping up with a vet claim right after his sooper spy claim is just as bogus. You two are scum. I've read my post yesterday and I realise I was very out of line and I apologize. I didn't mean you are stupid, but maybe you were not so experienced playing on the mafia side. I've read some of your previous games and your meta is definitively different form when you were town. Also, the fact that you were pushing me hard to reveal info helpful to the cell leader makes sense if you are scum. Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:26 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I want Sandroba to post his full role. At the moment, I'm not sure if I believe him or not, because it seems pretty weird for several reasons. Firstly, why did scum hit him? He was lurking so hard on day 2 that when he posted his vet claim, I needed to check the player list to make sure he was actually in the game. So, I don't get why two or more members of the mafia thought that it was best to hit him, but not any other, more active, player. Next is the name of the role, which doesn't say much by itself, but my gut reaction is to be suspicious, especially with such a short claim.
So, I'd like to ask san to post the full text of his role, because that might help clear things up or not. If he's lying, then I think our scum team is Ace/San/Varp. Ex-Marine You came back from the war, only to find your hometown overrun by terrorists! You have found that it is difficult to adapt to civilian life, however your experiences in the war make you hard to kill. It takes 2 successful hits to take you out. You will be notified when you lose your "extra life". The only reason I can think of me being shot last night was to narrow down the scum list previously posted by bum. Assuming jackal is scum that would link you and ace directly to him if he got lynched today. Apology accepted. Now please explain to me how I'm different? I was pushing because I hate when people post "I know something but I'm not sharing".
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From the other games you were town you were very agressive and abrasive. You seemed to tunnel people a lot more. You seem too mild and behaved this game.
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On May 03 2011 02:58 sandroba wrote: From the other games you were town you were very agressive and abrasive. You seemed to tunnel people a lot more. You seem too mild and behaved this game.
This isn't a good reason to call him scum though. Go read XXXVIII, where he was town. I was a third party that game, so I didn't call him out on it, but if I remember correctly, he didn't tunnel at all. I actually had him pegged as mafia, because of the weird change in meta. He didn't even yell at people until the Protact thing happened. Read through Insane 2, and then XXXVIII. He was town in both, and there is a huge shift in how he acted between them. This is why this change in behaviour isn't incredible to me. He has other behaviour that can look scummy, but lynching on the meta that he isn't being aggressive isn't a very good reason.
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Yes, I realise that. My reasoning is actually a sum of factors. In that quote I was only responding to his question. 1) Change of meta. 2) Bum's check which makes him at least 50% to be mafia as imprevious pointed out. 3) The conjuction of the messages intercepted by ace and the fact that jackal pushed me to reveal how to make all mafia's players know in one message. 4) Switching his vote to bum after saying he believed him to be the DT.
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On May 03 2011 03:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:58 sandroba wrote: From the other games you were town you were very agressive and abrasive. You seemed to tunnel people a lot more. You seem too mild and behaved this game. This isn't a good reason to call him scum though. Go read XXXVIII, where he was town. I was a third party that game, so I didn't call him out on it, but if I remember correctly, he didn't tunnel at all. I actually had him pegged as mafia, because of the weird change in meta. He didn't even yell at people until the Protact thing happened. Read through Insane 2, and then XXXVIII. He was town in both, and there is a huge shift in how he acted between them. This is why this change in behaviour isn't incredible to me. He has other behaviour that can look scummy, but lynching on the meta that he isn't being aggressive isn't a very good reason. I said in that game and this one that I am attempting to shed my bad habits. I also said it isn't fucking worth it.
And don't go by insane. I was intentionally trying to get two people killed in the item game to win the item game. I didn't particularly care what their alignment was, I just wanted them dead.
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On May 03 2011 03:15 sandroba wrote: Yes, I realise that. My reasoning is actually a sum of factors. In that quote I was only responding to his question. 1) Change of meta. 2) Bum's check which makes him at least 50% to be mafia as imprevious pointed out. 3) The conjuction of the messages intercepted by ace and the fact that jackal pushed me to reveal how to make all mafia's players know in one message. 4) Switching his vote to bum after saying he believed him to be the DT. No change. I'm reverting to the tunneling aggressive asshole. You're fucking scum. Bums check is not a 50/50 proposition. It's 75% town 25% scum. Only scum use scummy numbers Those messages are bullshit and you know it scummy. I switched because I wasn't getting lynched due to bums incompetence. Not my problem scummy.
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this arguing is all fine and dandy but we really might have a problem with activity here. I'd rather go into late game with a few active posters than a ton of lurkers. With barely any major new points being brought across in the last ~12 hours we should be changing course here. There are only about 5 active players right now and I don't think it would be wise to lynch one of them.
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This is a weird lynch. I'm not sure what to make of tnkted's claim of being a bullet-proof miller, as that seems really weird, and almost overpowered, as if he claims, he will never die if town believes him. I'm going to hold off on him though, because he isn't really important at the moment.
So if ace and san, and then varp are town, then the scum team is something like Jackal/BB/Eii.
I'm going to expect that all of the scum will know who each other are at this point. So that means that there's 4 scum maximum, maybe 2 minimum and 9 players. If there's 4, we're at MYLO already, so we need to be sure that we do this right. There's been associations drawn between people already, it seems. There's a strong relationship between Ace and San, as his claim relies on someone else being hit. There's also a relationship that I think exists with Varp, because of his quick agreement with Ace's claim, as well as the scum list he posted, which targets the other possibility of the scum team.
So what I need to decide, is if the scum team is formed of active posters and coherent, or made up of lurkers and disorganized.
Everyone's gone quiet, and Ace isn't really pushing hard for Jackal's lynch like he was for Bum's, which puts me on edge as well. People need to get talking more, because right now it seems like I'm the only one trying to figure things out while the lynch deadline is fast approaching.
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And as I right that, people show up and start posting -_-
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On May 03 2011 03:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 03:15 sandroba wrote: Yes, I realise that. My reasoning is actually a sum of factors. In that quote I was only responding to his question. 1) Change of meta. 2) Bum's check which makes him at least 50% to be mafia as imprevious pointed out. 3) The conjuction of the messages intercepted by ace and the fact that jackal pushed me to reveal how to make all mafia's players know in one message. 4) Switching his vote to bum after saying he believed him to be the DT. No change. I'm reverting to the tunneling aggressive asshole. You're fucking scum. Bums check is not a 50/50 proposition. It's 75% town 25% scum. Only scum use scummy numbers Those messages are bullshit and you know it scummy. I switched because I wasn't getting lynched due to bums incompetence. Not my problem scummy. Fuck, man, go learn something about probabilities please. Stop it with spreading this bullshit.
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On May 03 2011 03:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: This is a weird lynch. I'm not sure what to make of tnkted's claim of being a bullet-proof miller, as that seems really weird, and almost overpowered, as if he claims, he will never die if town believes him. I'm going to hold off on him though, because he isn't really important at the moment.
So if ace and san, and then varp are town, then the scum team is something like Jackal/BB/Eii.
I'm going to expect that all of the scum will know who each other are at this point. So that means that there's 4 scum maximum, maybe 2 minimum and 9 players. If there's 4, we're at MYLO already, so we need to be sure that we do this right. There's been associations drawn between people already, it seems. There's a strong relationship between Ace and San, as his claim relies on someone else being hit. There's also a relationship that I think exists with Varp, because of his quick agreement with Ace's claim, as well as the scum list he posted, which targets the other possibility of the scum team.
So what I need to decide, is if the scum team is formed of active posters and coherent, or made up of lurkers and disorganized.
Everyone's gone quiet, and Ace isn't really pushing hard for Jackal's lynch like he was for Bum's, which puts me on edge as well. People need to get talking more, because right now it seems like I'm the only one trying to figure things out while the lynch deadline is fast approaching.
I was actually waiting to see if something else happened as I recognized we're pretty much "stuck" here if we screw this up. Still think our best bet is to cut dead weight and see how the night ends up.
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On May 03 2011 03:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 03:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: This is a weird lynch. I'm not sure what to make of tnkted's claim of being a bullet-proof miller, as that seems really weird, and almost overpowered, as if he claims, he will never die if town believes him. I'm going to hold off on him though, because he isn't really important at the moment.
So if ace and san, and then varp are town, then the scum team is something like Jackal/BB/Eii.
I'm going to expect that all of the scum will know who each other are at this point. So that means that there's 4 scum maximum, maybe 2 minimum and 9 players. If there's 4, we're at MYLO already, so we need to be sure that we do this right. There's been associations drawn between people already, it seems. There's a strong relationship between Ace and San, as his claim relies on someone else being hit. There's also a relationship that I think exists with Varp, because of his quick agreement with Ace's claim, as well as the scum list he posted, which targets the other possibility of the scum team.
So what I need to decide, is if the scum team is formed of active posters and coherent, or made up of lurkers and disorganized.
Everyone's gone quiet, and Ace isn't really pushing hard for Jackal's lynch like he was for Bum's, which puts me on edge as well. People need to get talking more, because right now it seems like I'm the only one trying to figure things out while the lynch deadline is fast approaching.
I was actually waiting to see if something else happened as I recognized we're pretty much "stuck" here if we screw this up. Still think our best bet is to cut dead weight and see how the night ends up. I would have been up for a switch to darmousseh, however, he's been replaced. I'm waiting to see how active BB is going to be before I do anything like that.
I still think Jackal is our best bet at the moment. Especially with how he's been acting recently.
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On May 03 2011 03:41 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 03:28 Ace wrote:On May 03 2011 03:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: This is a weird lynch. I'm not sure what to make of tnkted's claim of being a bullet-proof miller, as that seems really weird, and almost overpowered, as if he claims, he will never die if town believes him. I'm going to hold off on him though, because he isn't really important at the moment.
So if ace and san, and then varp are town, then the scum team is something like Jackal/BB/Eii.
I'm going to expect that all of the scum will know who each other are at this point. So that means that there's 4 scum maximum, maybe 2 minimum and 9 players. If there's 4, we're at MYLO already, so we need to be sure that we do this right. There's been associations drawn between people already, it seems. There's a strong relationship between Ace and San, as his claim relies on someone else being hit. There's also a relationship that I think exists with Varp, because of his quick agreement with Ace's claim, as well as the scum list he posted, which targets the other possibility of the scum team.
So what I need to decide, is if the scum team is formed of active posters and coherent, or made up of lurkers and disorganized.
Everyone's gone quiet, and Ace isn't really pushing hard for Jackal's lynch like he was for Bum's, which puts me on edge as well. People need to get talking more, because right now it seems like I'm the only one trying to figure things out while the lynch deadline is fast approaching.
I was actually waiting to see if something else happened as I recognized we're pretty much "stuck" here if we screw this up. Still think our best bet is to cut dead weight and see how the night ends up. I would have been up for a switch to darmousseh, however, he's been replaced. I'm waiting to see how active BB is going to be before I do anything like that. I still think Jackal is our best bet at the moment. Especially with how he's been acting recently. How do you want me to act? I'm too aggressive. I'm not aggressive enough. You guys really buying Ace's 2 action role? If you are either Wiggles or you are scum. I haven't seen anybody pointing fingers at you. So you're either buying what Ace is selling or you're not. Which is it?
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Ok, I just went back through all of GGQ's posts and didn't find a single thing thats conclusive. I don't think scum used breadcrumbs this game., if what ace is saying about his interceptions is true. I think CL just sent things related to the people's profiles and meta. Is there a list somewhere where it shows who all is alive? because if there are 3 scum left and we have 7 players (by my count) this is lylo.
IMO Jackal is a bad lynch. If what ace posted was true, CL didn't use breadcrumbs at all! Instead they used clues related to the person's identity. Specifically, "watch the canadian" and "likes mens magazines," the latter obviously pointing at GGQ. The question is, watch the canadian: whats up with that? Who is a well known canadian player playing in this game? Impervious is possible, but I'm more afraid of...
#vote Mr. Wiggles
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Well I know I'm town, so if you're going by the fact that scum is alerting scum still, then that makes Impervious red. I also wouldn't count out the fact that Ace could be inventing the messages if he were Scum just to lead town in the wrong direction. I'm looking at it both ways.
If Ace is town:
The messages are true There was a message about a Canadian If scum is alerting scum of each others identities, then one of me or Impervious are red, meaning Impervious is Red. It could also be that scum want someone to push to lynch or kill either me or Impervious as well, when it says "Watch", not just "He's", meaning in that case, we're probably both green.
If Ace is scum:
The messages are most likely false Scum killed GGQ Ace fakes a message referencing the already dead GGQ, and then makes one about Canadians. Ace knows who the rest of his scum team are, and knows neither Impervious nor myself are red. He can now use that to push either of our lynches.
That's why I'm not jumping on Impervious either. Ace said he wants to lynch a lurker, but there's not many left. The easiest candidate would be BB, and after that one of you/San/Jackal/Eiii.
Lynching San would tell us Ace's alignment, but I'm not sure if we can sacrifice a town player if he's not scum. In that case, Ace is pretty much town, but then we will have killed one of our own, and Ace will most likely die at night. We can lynch Jackal based on the 50% probability that he's red, but we also have to keep in mind that there was RNG. BB replaced darm, who looked scummy, but was barely participating in the thread, so it's hard to get a complete alignment from his words and actions. BB also still hasn't had a chance to say anything yet. I haven't noticed much of Eiii, but I'm going to have to go reread all his posts. If I remember correctly, he wasn't a supporter of the bum lynch. Then there's yourself. you've been lurking pretty hard for a major part of the game, and now claim a bullet-proof, self-aware miller role. This doesn't absolve you from suspicion in my eyes, because that seems like a very easy thing to claim for scum, and explains why you would ever show up red to DT checks if that came up.
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So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the situation that we're at is that we don't know who's lying about their role. If we could get a little more information (I.e., a strategic lynch on somebody to confirm players as townie/mafia) we could peg at least one, if now two scum within the next two days. I'm assuming we have 1 mislynch left.
Ace claims Undercover Agent, sandroba claims vet. If one is telling the truth, both are, but if one is lying, then both are. Lynching either would confirm the other as either town or scum.
Tnkted's role is almost too good to be true. What makes me less suspicious of him than of Ace + sand is that he claimed after all of the DT's died. now, if we decide to check him, our only method will be to lynch him, which will validate his claim. I say we leave him for later. Lynching him would give us no new information.
Jackal58: I'm looking scummy now for jumping on his bandwagon because he disagreed with me, but I'm starting to see his point (because the CL told me to ) He has claimed townie (i'm going to assume). Lynching him would practically confirm Ace/Sandroba as town or scum
Eiii needs to speak up before I lynch him for being too quiet. His lynch would contribute nothing
Darmousseh might have had some RL stuff, I'm going to wait for BB to finish reading the thread and start contributing. If he doesn't start contributing, I'm still up for lynching him. Again, no information would be gained from his lynch
Mr. Wiggles + Impervious must be watched closely in case ace flips Undercover Agent when/if we lynch him.
This is probably incomplete. I left myself out, for one thing, because I'm obviously biased. I'm thinking we should pick our lynch today based off of the information the flip would give us.
Any thoughts?
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On May 03 2011 05:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well I know I'm town, so if you're going by the fact that scum is alerting scum still, then that makes Impervious red. I also wouldn't count out the fact that Ace could be inventing the messages if he were Scum just to lead town in the wrong direction. I'm looking at it both ways.
If Ace is town:
The messages are true There was a message about a Canadian If scum is alerting scum of each others identities, then one of me or Impervious are red, meaning Impervious is Red. It could also be that scum want someone to push to lynch or kill either me or Impervious as well, when it says "Watch", not just "He's", meaning in that case, we're probably both green.
If Ace is scum:
The messages are most likely false Scum killed GGQ Ace fakes a message referencing the already dead GGQ, and then makes one about Canadians. Ace knows who the rest of his scum team are, and knows neither Impervious nor myself are red. He can now use that to push either of our lynches.
That's why I'm not jumping on Impervious either. Ace said he wants to lynch a lurker, but there's not many left. The easiest candidate would be BB, and after that one of you/San/Jackal/Eiii.
Lynching San would tell us Ace's alignment, but I'm not sure if we can sacrifice a town player if he's not scum. In that case, Ace is pretty much town, but then we will have killed one of our own, and Ace will most likely die at night. We can lynch Jackal based on the 50% probability that he's red, but we also have to keep in mind that there was RNG. BB replaced darm, who looked scummy, but was barely participating in the thread, so it's hard to get a complete alignment from his words and actions. BB also still hasn't had a chance to say anything yet. I haven't noticed much of Eiii, but I'm going to have to go reread all his posts. If I remember correctly, he wasn't a supporter of the bum lynch. Then there's yourself. you've been lurking pretty hard for a major part of the game, and now claim a bullet-proof, self-aware miller role. This doesn't absolve you from suspicion in my eyes, because that seems like a very easy thing to claim for scum, and explains why you would ever show up red to DT checks if that came up. And, whether Ace is town or not, we'll know more by keeping him alive for the night than we will otherwise. If Ace is red, it seems to be pretty certain that sandroba is also red. If not, I'm pretty certain that both would be green. I'm not sure which it is yet.
So, imo, we've gotta go after the 3rd mafia member. darm/BB, Jackal, and Eii are the best choices for that.
darm was really quiet, and BrownBear hasn't posted anything since the replacement, so we don't have much to go on. Eii is similar. Jackal came up with the inconclusive from the DT, and was already acting scummy before that. As much as I would rather lynch darm/BB or Eii, Jackal gives us the ~50% chance of hitting a red..... That's better odds than I can give to the others. And, I'm thinking that at this point, if we get it right, we will probably win. If not, we'll probably lose. That's why, unless something game-changing comes up in the next few hours, I'm sticking with my vote for him.
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EBWOP:
On May 03 2011 05:43 VarpuliS wrote: If we could get a little more information (I.e., a strategic lynch on somebody to confirm players as townie/mafia) we could peg at least one, if now not two scum within the next two days. I'm assuming we have 1 mislynch left.
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I like that analysis of Ace's clues with consideration to his alignment, Wiggles. I'm going to assume that there are three scum left. (it could be only two, but I doubt that there are 4. 6 scum in a 15 person game seems like way too many to me) Right now I'm in support of a Jackal lynch more than anything else because it would give us a lot of information if he flips town, and he could very well be scum, which would be good for town irregardless of information.
If he's scum, then Ace and sand are town, and we can start looking more carefully at Ace's clues.
If he's CL, we'll have struck gold, and we'll have plenty to analyze base off of his previous posting.
If he's town, then we throw the one-two punch and lynch Ace and Sandroba back-to-back.
##Unvote: Brownbear (darmousseh) ##Vote: Jackal58
I'm back on you, jackal, but with better reasons this time.
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I don't agree with you about lynching for information, but I took a closer look at tnkted role claim.
Down-on-your-luck Stock Broker Everything was going you way in the mid 2000s. Then the economy tanked, you lost most of your wealth, and your wife divorced you and took what was left! Now you are stuck roaming the streets of Liquidville. Because you are homeless, everyone in town is suspicious of you – investigations on you will always return “Not Town”. Fortunately for you, though, at night you can disappear into the alleyways, making it impossible to find (and then shoot) you!
Besides this role making no sense at all to me there are a couple things that stood out. First the colored tittle. I don't know about you guys, but my role pm has no color. He's putting emphasis on the fact that he is town. Second "Everything was going you way". Seriously, a gramatical error in a role pm? Third, and this is kind of minor, but I find it weird that his name is tnkted and there is "Then the economy tanked". It's like he's making fun of us.
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I'm pretty convinced tnkted is scum. Besides from the inconsistencies on him role pm, he goes ahead and vote for wiggles based on the part of the message intercepted by ace. He does no analysis and even say he could be wrong and it might be imprevious aswel. It seems to me he's trying to derail jackal's lynch. Maybe you succeded because I'm voting for you.
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This might not be relevant at all, but he's had this set up for basically the entire game.On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Down-on-your-luck Stock Broker Everything was going you way in the mid 2000s. Then the economy tanked, you lost most of your wealth, and your wife divorced you and took what was left! Now you are stuck roaming the streets of Liquidville. Because you are homeless, everyone in town is suspicious of you – investigations on you will always return “Not Town”. Fortunately for you, though, at night you can disappear into the alleyways, making it impossible to find (and then shoot) you!
DSBETNLBNTF. The capital letters of the PM match the breadcrumb he left. Either this is a genius fake, or he was smart and gave us a way to confirm him.
His role is so strange that more explanation is neccesary than "you went to war, you've got an extra life" iGrok might as well have just pm'd sandroba You are a veteran, you have an extra night life
That would not have been possible for tnkted. also, this is a role that iGrok invented, it seems. it makes sense that he would put more effort into it than sandroba's run-of-the-mill veteran role.
Ace, could you post your pm too for comparison?
I think that there's less reason to lynch tnkted than there is to lynch Jackal, plain and simple. I'm not lynching jackal just for the information, sand. I think that there's a genuine chance that he could be scum, just like everybody else. The difference is that if i'm wrong, i'll have a much better idea who to lynch next.
If tnkted wants to derail the Jackal vote, doesn't it make more sense to vote for jackal anyways? Because if he is, they're both scum, and I've already pointed out why Jackal makes a very smart lynch in the case that he's scum.
Don't you want to confirm yourself, sand?
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Reposting for emphasis: Ace, could you please post your pm so that we can compare it to tnkted's and sandroba's?
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On May 03 2011 06:07 sandroba wrote: I'm pretty convinced tnkted is scum. Besides from the inconsistencies on him role pm, he goes ahead and vote for wiggles based on the part of the message intercepted by ace. He does no analysis and even say he could be wrong and it might be imprevious aswel. It seems to me he's trying to derail jackal's lynch. Maybe you succeded because I'm voting for you. At the risk of putting the vote back on me, if tnkted is scum and Ace is what he claims to be that would make Impervious scum wouldn't it? To be honest with you I find both of their claims outrageously unbelievable. However it would appear that only 1 could be telling the truth. Although I think they're both lying. If Ace is scum tnkted is basically going on a 50/50 shot on Wiggles with no analysis to support his decision. If tnkted is scum he's voting for the one he knows is town and Ace will most likely get shot tonight. Since I seem incapable of getting you guys to realize that a judge/jury/executioner role is almost entirely made up smoke and mirrors bs I have no problem with voting for tnkted. This forces me to assume for the moment that one of them is telling the truth and the way tnkted just voted with no explanation makes Ace's wild ass claim appear to be slightly less wild ass than tnkted's. Plus throw in the lurk factor. The only game I've played with tnkted was Insane 2 and there were times I swear he was just posting to get his name on every page.
##unvote: Ace ##Vote: tnkted
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Wow, I didn't realize that, it's clever indeed, but I fail to see how that confirms him as townie. He has been planing to role claim since the begining of the game and it makes sense for him to have written it then. Also how do you explain the "you" instead of "your" and the colored title in his "copy-paste"? I'm fine with jackal lynch aswel, because I think they are both scum, but I'm not as interested in confirming myself as town as I am in finding scum. And sure, ace posting his pm would be nice.
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I agree, the coloring in the title is strange. I'm ignoring the mistake in the pm, because the host is only human, and browsers don't check for grammatical errors (believe me, they not do)
iGrok might have felt the need to clarify because the role isn't in the OP. That's my theory, anyways. I just realized that ex-marine isn't in the op either, so nvm, it is weird.
There wasn't any coloring in my pm either, but then again, it was just the townie role from the role list (minus the bold and the green). That's why I'm asking Ace to post his, for comparison.
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On May 03 2011 04:44 tnkted wrote: Ok, I just went back through all of GGQ's posts and didn't find a single thing thats conclusive. I don't think scum used breadcrumbs this game., if what ace is saying about his interceptions is true. I think CL just sent things related to the people's profiles and meta. Is there a list somewhere where it shows who all is alive? because if there are 3 scum left and we have 7 players (by my count) this is lylo.
IMO Jackal is a bad lynch. If what ace posted was true, CL didn't use breadcrumbs at all! Instead they used clues related to the person's identity. Specifically, "watch the canadian" and "likes mens magazines," the latter obviously pointing at GGQ. The question is, watch the canadian: whats up with that? Who is a well known canadian player playing in this game? Impervious is possible, but I'm more afraid of...
#vote Mr. Wiggles
The message could mean that a Canadian is Scum, to shoot a Canadian player, to watch what they post in the thread...who knows? Wiggles seems like the most Pro-town player in the game so far so I doubt anyone voting for him.
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On May 03 2011 07:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:44 tnkted wrote: Ok, I just went back through all of GGQ's posts and didn't find a single thing thats conclusive. I don't think scum used breadcrumbs this game., if what ace is saying about his interceptions is true. I think CL just sent things related to the people's profiles and meta. Is there a list somewhere where it shows who all is alive? because if there are 3 scum left and we have 7 players (by my count) this is lylo.
IMO Jackal is a bad lynch. If what ace posted was true, CL didn't use breadcrumbs at all! Instead they used clues related to the person's identity. Specifically, "watch the canadian" and "likes mens magazines," the latter obviously pointing at GGQ. The question is, watch the canadian: whats up with that? Who is a well known canadian player playing in this game? Impervious is possible, but I'm more afraid of...
#vote Mr. Wiggles The message could mean that a Canadian is Scum, to shoot a Canadian player, to watch what they post in the thread...who knows? Wiggles seems like the most Pro-town player in the game so far so I doubt anyone voting for him. And that's one of the reasons I'm skeptical of you. That message that you "intercepted" makes so little sense. I can't make anything out of it. It's got to apply to me or Wiggles, yea, but it still doesn't make any sense.
Wiggles seems to be really pro-town, and I already know that I am town.....
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To be honest, I kind of felt we had lost this game before last night. Then some good shit happened, and the next time I read the thread there was a lot of confusing stuff going on that I still can't sort out. So here's how I feel at the moment:
tnk's roleclaim is the most convenient role for scum to claim ever. Then again, the role is designed to make tnk seem scummy. I don't really know why he would claim right now. I'm confused. As a side note, in insane 2 when blues proposed everyone should claim partial words in their role so they could double-check some roles people had, kavdragon jumped at the chance and later used that setup to claim a protown role when he was actually red or black or something, I can't remember. Anyway, breadcrumbing something like this is pretty easy. The role tnk claimed excuses his lurking. That's pretty nice for him :/
Ace feels really sketchy to me. First, his day one plan that clearly accomplished pretty much nothing-- it got some activity going, yeah that's good but as a 'plan' coming from a vetran player I expected more than just a list of names and associated keywords that he tells people to watch out for. So that's weird. Then his most recent claim-- seems reasonable, but it seems like a weird time for him to claim like that. Mafia accidentally kills one of their own -> opportunity for cl to claim vig and another to claim vet? But CL gets the hit list before the day post, as I understand it, so why wouldn't he take the chance to claim the hit in advance and make himself look better? If he actually is something vig-y, why didn't he do the same for the same reasons? Also, anotherthing that seems off to me is that his three-word interceptions of the five word messages seem too complete by themselves. They feel contrived to me, basically, but that could be due to a fake claim or because the role gets three useful words from each five word message sent. So again, nothing for ace really lines up town or scum for me. I'm confused.
Of the non-lurkers, I would be most comfortable lynching ace right now. I'm also going to try to not lurk so I don't get lynched :X
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On May 03 2011 06:25 VarpuliS wrote: Reposting for emphasis: Ace, could you please post your pm so that we can compare it to tnkted's and sandroba's?
Your role is the following:
UNDERCOVER AGENT
Your entire training in the FBI has come to this moment and it's time to put your skills into action. Since you are an expert at wiretapping every day you will intercept parts of a message the Cell Leader has sent to his Agent. Use these messages to try and stay one step ahead of the Sleeper Cells. Like all FBI Agents you carry a sidearm but you only have 1 bullet. If you shoot an Agent life will go on. However, if you shoot an innocent person then you will automatically alert an Agent in the area and be killed immediately. Good luck.
On May 03 2011 05:56 sandroba wrote:I don't agree with you about lynching for information, but I took a closer look at tnkted role claim. Show nested quote +Down-on-your-luck Stock Broker Everything was going you way in the mid 2000s. Then the economy tanked, you lost most of your wealth, and your wife divorced you and took what was left! Now you are stuck roaming the streets of Liquidville. Because you are homeless, everyone in town is suspicious of you – investigations on you will always return “Not Town”. Fortunately for you, though, at night you can disappear into the alleyways, making it impossible to find (and then shoot) you! Besides this role making no sense at all to me there are a couple things that stood out. First the colored tittle. I don't know about you guys, but my role pm has no color. He's putting emphasis on the fact that he is town. Second "Everything was going you way". Seriously, a gramatical error in a role pm? Third, and this is kind of minor, but I find it weird that his name is tnkted and there is "Then the economy tanked". It's like he's making fun of us.
Well having a grammatical error in a role PM isn't damning. The thing is that as far as we know the Scum have 1KP and there are no medics. So for there to be a Veteran and Bulletproof role in the same game is eye raising isn't it? I think he put the color in there on purpose because my role PM didn't have color either.
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@Eiii: why would I claim before the night is over when I can shoot?
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voting for Brownbear until he posts. tnkted's claim doesn't excuse his lurking for sure but we also need to see what's taking BB so long to post.
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On May 03 2011 06:41 sandroba wrote: Wow, I didn't realize that, it's clever indeed, but I fail to see how that confirms him as townie. He has been planing to role claim since the begining of the game and it makes sense for him to have written it then. Also how do you explain the "you" instead of "your" and the colored title in his "copy-paste"? I'm fine with jackal lynch aswel, because I think they are both scum, but I'm not as interested in confirming myself as town as I am in finding scum. And sure, ace posting his pm would be nice. He learned the ''create a role in advance" trick from Kav in Insane 2. Kav mind raped me with it and town lost due in large part to my gullibility. I'm town. I'm not buying bullshit claims anymore.
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I didn't follow insane II, so I was unaware that his has been done before. That in adition to the disparity between his pm and those of Sandroba and Ace (colored role instead of capslocked) makes me mighty suspicious of him.
Thinking about the role objectively, why would a miller need to be bulletproof anyway? If the mafia is stupid enough to kill him, it's their loss.
Why would you lurk so much if you knew that you couldn't get hit at night? Wouldn't you try to be as town friendly as possible so that mafia would try to kill you? Instead he says "i'm being quiet so that dt's don't check me."
His role is an excuse to lurk... and you all know how much Jackal and I have lurkers. I'm switching to tnkted, but BrownBear had better post soon, or else i'm switching.
we're probably going to get the information that we need from the nightkill, so we might as well lynch the scummiest player today.
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I'm going to vote brownbear to help pressure him to post. I'll probably end up switching to tnkted after, barring any major revelations.
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Vote tallies:
Ace: 0
Impervious
Jackal58
Jackal58 1 Impervious
VarpuliS
Brownbear(Darmousseh) 2
VarpuliS Ace Mr. Wiggles.
Mr. Wiggles 1 tnkted
tnkted 3 sandroba Jackal58 VarpuliS
tnkted is to be lynched with 3 votes. Voting ends in 4 hours and 15 minutes.
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oh, also BrownBear and Eiii still haven't voted yet.
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you'd think after the first few modkills people would learn
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I'm still here. Paying attention. Just trying to figure out what to do.
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and to answer your question ace, if I had a night hit and planned on claiming, I'd do so like a minute before night ends, not just after it ends.
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Alright, I'm voting for brownbear now because if he gets modkilled and we mislynch it's probably gg after the mafia kills tonight. I hope he shows up, because I think that there are better people to lynch today.
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Hoppin' on the to-be-modkilled bandwagon.
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9 left. 5 town 4 mafia. Right?
If we don't get a good lynch right now, it's GG anyways. Whether or not BB is town or mafia.
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Ok. You guys are idiots. Look at this bandwagoning at the very end of the day.
My role doesn't explain my inactivity. I've been inactive because its getting close to finals week and I haven't been able to play.
This is LYLO. am I really the most suspicious person here? To be honest, I'm more confused why the other two players roles aren't colored green. Mine was. Heres the exact quote:
Original Message From iGrok: Your Role is:
Down-on-your-luck Stock Broker Everything was going you way in the mid 2000s. Then the economy tanked, you lost most of your wealth, and your wife divorced you and took what was left! Now you are stuck roaming the streets of Liquidville. Because you are homeless, everyone in town is suspicious of you – investigations on you will always return “Not Town”. Fortunately for you, though, at night you can disappear into the alleyways, making it impossible to find (and then shoot) you!
Please pm me with any further questions.
I have no idea why nobody else's roles weren't colored green. That leads me to believe that neither of the other two are actually green. The misspelling isn't me at all.
Why would I bother writing a role PM that far in advance? If YOU got bulletproof miller what would you do? You'd try to attract a hit from scum and then claim before a DT could check you! This role is absolutely useless if you claim it before a DT checks you, and its even more useless if you don't get hit. I have no idea if I've gotten hit or not. To be honest, I have a feeling I did, and san is lying.
Scumteam is Jackal/San/Wiggles. I'm certain of it.
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bulletproof miller is interesting because millers never get told they are millers. Even ignoring why your role PM has colors - why do you have green lettering for a role that is most certainly 'blue' ?
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Ace's pm matched san's in terms of role name (CAPS, no color). You say you're almost sure about your list, but you also say that you're suspicious of Ace not being green/town aligned.
Why is Wiggles scum? How about Jackal? I'd like some reasons that don't involve inconclusive DT checks or vague breadcrumbs.
How do you know that it's lylo? unless mafia started out with 6, which I doubt, lylo is tomorrow at the earliest. They don't win unless they OUTNUMBER the town. read the OP.
If we mislynch today and BB gets modkilled, we instalose unless the mafia have less people left than we thought.
I'm calling scum. FoS for tomorrow.
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Roleclaim time:
HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
And before anyone stirs up stuff, yes it is the same as in the OP. However, there's a major difference. The name isn't coloured in any way.
Also, tnkted, if you yourself say that the role is useless if you don't get hit, then why would you claim before you were hit? The longer you don't claim, the more likely scum would have been to hit you because they'd get nervous if you kept hinting at information. Instead you claimed as soon as there was a bit of pressure and expected it to completely absolve you of suspicion while also rendering you useless.
Brownbear looks like he's going to get modkilled, and right now, you look pretty scummy. Your role claim doesn't match with anyone else, you've been lurking hardcore, and you make a somewhat senseless claim. That's good enough for me today.
##Vote: tnkted
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are we roleclaiming now? Cool.
Original Message From iGrok: You will be replacing in for why. Here is your role:
HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
glhf ^^
Notice how it's exactly the same as in the OP, sans the the green and the bold. From the OP: On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
Your role isn't even in CAPS, because that would mess with your little breadcrumb, wouldn't it?
I was hesitant before, but with Wiggle's vote we can lynch this liar now. ##Unvote: BrownBear ##Vote: tnkted
BB, please show up in time to avoid the modkill. We could all do without another one.
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Well, bye bye BrownBear, you actually managed to be less active than the person you replaced, congradulations.
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On May 03 2011 13:06 VarpuliS wrote: f5f5f5f5f5
would quote it in green font but..ya know ^_^
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Night 3
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS In his previous profession, the man known as tnkted was gambler. It appears that he still hasn't learned his lesson.
During the daily town meeting, tnkted strode in and revealed himself to the townfolk. "I am not one of you!", he claimed. "But I am a friend!" The Liquidians would not hear any of this, however, and quickly tried to capture him. tnkted tried to escape, bursting out the door and quickly scaling the wall of the building next door. What happened next? We asked Deputy Director Chaoser for the details:
"At approximately 6:30 pm, we received an alert that the man known as "tnkted" was fleeing across the rooftops of Liquidville. He managed to evade all patrol cars simply by being higher above ground, and so we dispatched a Helicopter unit. After he continued to refuse to come peacefully, our Heli-team opened fire.
We had suspected tnkted for a long time, but upon further (post-mortem) investigation, we have discovered that he was merely a harmless bum. We regret this tragic incident."
We would say he would be missed, but in all honesty, that guy gave me the creeps. He just seemed so scummy.
In other news, BrownBear narrowly survived a lightning strike today. Doctors say he was incredibly lucky and unlikely to survive another.
This has been another Channel 4 News Report, brought to you by the "Vote or Die" Campaign. Never say you don't have a choice!
This is iGrok, signing off.
tnkted the Down-on-your-luck Stock Broker is dead.
BrownBear survived because I gave him late notice of his replacement.
Night ends at 05:00 GMT (+00:00) May 4th.
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Wow, so he was telling the truth. I guess he's the only one that had a color coded PM then.
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Oh wow, missed this. Derp.
Thanks for not killing me ^^
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Great work everybody, I think you've all done a helluva job.
No hard feelings though. I was scummy due to inactivity, I would have done the same. GL!
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Dammit Twinkles. A beautiful role and wtf did you claim it for.
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Guys, this is the 2nd time now where Jackal has evaded a lynch, even though it was definitely the best choice of action. And, in turn, we fucking lynched a townie.
I swear, if he does turn out to be GF or red of any kind, any of you guys who have been pushing for other lynches instead are going to be auto day-one lynches from me for now on.
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Unless you're red. In which case, well done.
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Dammit man. I'm not scum. Seriously. Am I pushing scum agendas? Am I pushing for stupid shit? No. My last 2 votes were basically in self preservation the second on a really bullshit looking role posted by a lurker. If Ace really had a night shot why am I still alive? Because I'm a great lynch target and a constant distraction to town. Thank you Bum.
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The fact is - we'd have learned a lot of info from lynching you on either of those nights.
While we did learn more by lynching a blue and an un-night-killable green, neither of those outcomes favored the town at all. And we didn't learn any information that can help lead us to other reds, even if they did show red. That isn't the case with you.
And, now that we can't afford a mislynch, we don't have the ability to take the 50/50 with you and then be able to identify at least 1 or 2 others as reds. We have to get a good one right now.
To be honest, even if you're a blue role, you'd have been more useful to the town dead than alive.
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I'm just green man. My role PM is verbatim what's in the OP. No sense in posting that. The only thing you'll learn from me is I'm green. And Bum got a 25% rng'd DT return. That's it man.
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It's too late to policy lynch him as is - tomorrow's lynch will have to be based off pure analysis, given that apparently our DT checks are not 100% accurate.
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BrownBear, could you post your thoughts on each player? Who are on your suspect list and why? Who do you think is town?
Darmousseh didn't leave us with much to work with.
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Jackal, maybe I'm stubborn, but you're not convincing me at all.
So, out of the players that are left:
Neither Ace nor sandroba will die tonight. Everyone knows their fates are intertwined.
darmousseh/BrownBear seemed scummy due to inactivity and bandwagoning, but there is nothing conclusive. The mafia probably won't kill him tonight.
Same goes for Eiii.
Jackal has been a good distraction if he's town, or has had a lot of help staying alive as mafia. He won't die tonight.
Wiggles and I have that message about us. I'm not sure what it means, but it applies to one of us. If we get caught up on it, it'll likely cause us problems. The mafia know this, and would probably try to keep us alive, to push Ace's message for a lynch on one of us tomorrow. Although, this is still pretty weak.
Which leaves us with VarpuliS. The most pro-town, and the least under suspicion right now. If he doesn't die tonight, I'd be surprised. Why? Because his death leaves us with no information. That is, unless he is actually a member of the Mafia. However, at the same time, him being left alive won't actually tell us much about who the mafia is, because they could kill someone else to try to make VarpuliS look suspicious.
So, out of the obvious people who won't be around tomorrow, it seems like it could be me, Wiggles, or VarpuliS. Potentially BrownBear and Eiii, but I find this to be less likely.
Why? Because we're the ones who's give away the least information as to who is actually mafia, or will be more difficult to convince the town to lynch in a lylo situation.
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On May 04 2011 06:29 Impervious wrote: Jackal, maybe I'm stubborn, but you're not convincing me at all.
So, out of the players that are left:
Neither Ace nor sandroba will die tonight. Everyone knows their fates are intertwined.
darmousseh/BrownBear seemed scummy due to inactivity and bandwagoning, but there is nothing conclusive. The mafia probably won't kill him tonight.
Same goes for Eiii.
Jackal has been a good distraction if he's town, or has had a lot of help staying alive as mafia. He won't die tonight.
Wiggles and I have that message about us. I'm not sure what it means, but it applies to one of us. If we get caught up on it, it'll likely cause us problems. The mafia know this, and would probably try to keep us alive, to push Ace's message for a lynch on one of us tomorrow. Although, this is still pretty weak.
Which leaves us with VarpuliS. The most pro-town, and the least under suspicion right now. If he doesn't die tonight, I'd be surprised. Why? Because his death leaves us with no information. That is, unless he is actually a member of the Mafia. However, at the same time, him being left alive won't actually tell us much about who the mafia is, because they could kill someone else to try to make VarpuliS look suspicious.
So, out of the obvious people who won't be around tomorrow, it seems like it could be me, Wiggles, or VarpuliS. Potentially BrownBear and Eiii, but I find this to be less likely.
Why? Because we're the ones who's give away the least information as to who is actually mafia, or will be more difficult to convince the town to lynch in a lylo situation. This post is pure scum bullshit. I'm not even worried about how stubborn you are. Keep pushing me. The only way you can state that Ace won't die tonight is if you're scum and you know Ace is scum That also makes sandroba scum. If you think for a second that scum would let a real DT live through the night you're insane. But no. It's "Neither Ace nor sandroba will die tonight" Your words not mine. It's Sandroba,Ace and you the Canadian. I haven't been a distraction to town. The only time I distract town is when you call me scum. That's not me distracting town bucko that's you. You're already setting up all of your wifom for who dies tonight. You scummy guys might as well kill me cause I just put on my tunneling hat. You are the scummy Canadian.
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On May 04 2011 08:05 Jackal58 wrote: The only way you can state that Ace won't die tonight is if you're scum and you know Ace is scum That also makes sandroba scum. That's exactly why he won't die tonight. It'll basically confirm sandroba as town, making it much more likely that a mafia member will be targetted for a lynch tomorrow. Think it through, man.
Oh, wait, you don't need to.
This type of response is exactly what I expected from a red.
If you think for a second that scum would let a real DT live through the night you're insane. But no. It's "Neither Ace nor sandroba will die tonight" Your words not mine. It's Sandroba,Ace and you the Canadian. Where did Ace admit to being a real DT? He's not. He claimed that he can intercept messages. There is a fucking massive difference there.
The DT check was merely icing on the cake. Now I'm 100% convinced you're scum.
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On May 04 2011 08:14 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 08:05 Jackal58 wrote: The only way you can state that Ace won't die tonight is if you're scum and you know Ace is scum That also makes sandroba scum. That's exactly why he won't die tonight. It'll basically confirm sandroba as town, making it much more likely that a mafia member will be targetted for a lynch tomorrow. Think it through, man. Oh, wait, you don't need to. This type of response is exactly what I expected from a red. Show nested quote +If you think for a second that scum would let a real DT live through the night you're insane. But no. It's "Neither Ace nor sandroba will die tonight" Your words not mine. It's Sandroba,Ace and you the Canadian. Where did Ace admit to being a real DT? He's not. He claimed that he can intercept messages. There is a fucking massive difference there. The DT check was merely icing on the cake. Now I'm 100% convinced you're scum. Keep it going scummy. Your logic processor broke. Now you're playing the same semantics game Ace was. He intercepts messages. Same fucking thing. Except he doesn't. It's a bs role. Thanks for helping me choose between the Canadians.
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Jackal, first you're calling out Ace and sandroba, now, if you're trying to connect me to Ace's message, it means that you're confirming him as town.....
I can't believe how dumb you are if you think that kind of inconsistency is going to convince anyone.
In fact, I'm starting to think that Ace really is the DT. And you really are the GF. The message "Watch the Canadian" could simply mean that your scumbuddy should watch out for me, since I'm the one who's consistently going against you. It actually fits pretty nicely.
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Well, not DT, but whatever he is.
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On May 04 2011 10:03 Impervious wrote: Jackal, first you're calling out Ace and sandroba, now, if you're trying to connect me to Ace's message, it means that you're confirming him as town.....
I can't believe how dumb you are if you think that kind of inconsistency is going to convince anyone.
In fact, I'm starting to think that Ace really is the DT. And you really are the GF. The message "Watch the Canadian" could simply mean that your scumbuddy should watch out for me, since I'm the one who's consistently going against you. It actually fits pretty nicely. I never said I was smart. Dammit.
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Impervious, why would you give scum a guide on who would not give town information by dying before scum has sent in their kill?
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Also, I went back and read Ace's role, and it seems self-consistent. At first I was actually going to call him out for a second because Cell Leader sends out a message every morning/evening, and he only posted two. However, Ace's role just says "every day you will intercept parts of a message", which leads me to believe that it's at least consistent with what he posted. This gives it a little more credence in my eyes, or at least it means Ace is smart enough to get caught in something like that.
I'm going to post again a little before the Day post.
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Impervious, that hitlist you posted is absolutely useless to the town. Why would you post that, unless you wanted to direct the mafia as to who they should kill tonight?
I'm going to sleep now. I'll see you guys tomorrow if I survive the night. I really don't have anything more to contribute atm. I'll update my suspect list, though, before I turn in.
+ Show Spoiler [Updated player reads] +Impervious: He's a little suspicious because of his eagerness to side with bum + the breadcrumb Ace intercepted, but I'm getting a town vibe from him, and his posts have been generally constructive and town friendly, if you discount a few early game spam posts/1 liners. Opinion has changed. I'll do a more full analysis tomorrow, but suffice to say his most recent actions haven't been super town friendly. Jackal58: He handled the bumatlarge accusation well, but his response to Ace's claim has been very suspicious to me. Looking through his previous posts, I get a scummy vibe. I could go through post-by-post and elaborate if people really want me too, but in the interest of time I'll just leave it at that for now. Bad accusation based off of poor evidence. Mr. Wiggles: He was quite quiet early on, but his activity rose sharply after his finals ended, and he's been posting with quality and frequency since then. I'm calling this strong town play. unchangedAce: I'm inclined to believe Ace's roleclaim, because the evidence fits and his logic and reasoning are solid. I don't agree with the lynch on bum which he spearheaded, but bum could easily have been scum, and the illogic and stupidity of his DT claim didn't help his case. Also, Sandroba's vet claim supports Ace's claim. unchangedEiii: Lurking. Not town friendly. Occasionally pops in with a post, but has made some questionable decisions, and isn't being helpful to the town. Not much more to say about him, because he hasn't given me much to analyze. unchangedVarpuliS: I'm pretty sure that I'm town. Still on the fence though. I'll post later with an update + Show Spoiler +unchangeddarmoussehBrownBear: This dude is lurking so hardcore that he's worse than useless. He's just an extra vote for the bandwagon, and a player who we need to get rid of soon. replacement has been equally inactive. Weird.Sandroba: His vet claim makes a lot of sense, considering the events of last night. He's been quite pro-town with his posting, but then again I only skimmed the first half of them because I don't need further convincing. Maybe I'm just naive. unchanged
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Ok, so I fully expect to die tonight, and I'll find out in a little bit. Killing one of San or Ace gives too much information. I also don't expect Jackal to die, because if he's town that robs scum of someone to push the lynch onto. Most everyone else is either lurking or scum, meaning it will probably be one of Imp/Varp/Me.
Imp has been connected to the Canadian quote, so he's either scum, or scum can use it to push a lynch on him. Also, I've connected Varp to Ace and San already so his death will give information, but I'm re-evaluating that judgment. That leaves me as the kill as I've been pretty active and trying to figure out what's happening.
A few words to town if I'm dead. Don't follow anyone based only on a blue-claim. Ace is going to have another message for you guys, and it might help lead you in the right direction. Keep in mind though, that Ace could easily be lying. So, if you use that information to your advantage, or he tries to push something, don't do it solely on the message, but based on the logic behind it. Also keep in mind that if Ace is telling the truth, the Cell leader might actually be smart enough to send a message with fake information in anticipation of Ace intercepting it. So, don't blindly trust whatever message Ace reveals, as it could have been be tampered with, or could be a complete fabrication by Ace. Use your head, don't rely on claims.
Watch who starts pushing what plan. If Ace/San are scum, then they'll either quickly push for Impervious or Jackal as a lynch, as they're both easy to kill based on the DT and "messages". At first, I also wanted to lump Varp with them, because of his "alignment list", which looked like it was basically parroting Ace and taking as true any blue information that had been given. However, I'm now considering the possibility of a Varpulis/Impervious/BB team too, with maybe Jackal. Every day, varp has been proposing Darm(BB) as the lynch, but never hard enough to actually get him killed. It seemed that both days, he just switched from a Darm vote to whoever was getting modkilled. This is easy for scum to do, especially if they know the person being modkilled isn't scum but Darm is. The switch is because he'd rather one town die than have to sacrifice a scum player who would otherwise live. His constant targeting of Darm without ever actually being serious about it seems like a scum who wants to get townie cred for lynching a lurking scum. Also, his list could be taken that he just wants to look town with it, appealing to popular opinion. Just watch who he's pushing for tomorrow, and how. Impervious has a couple posts that are making me suspicious of him as well now, and he's also already pushing for Jackal. This doesn't tell me much about Jackal's alignment, but if he's town, he's the go-to lynch for any scum that are around. It'll be really easy to push for him based on the DT check, and could also be used as a bus for scum. Imp seems to be pushing hard, like he wants to set it up already for the next day and get a head start on suggesting Jackal's lynch.
So, keep in mind the possibility of Ace/San, but also the connections between Varp and BB, and now Imp pushing for Jackal. I've got a sinking feeling about Varp/Imp/BB right now, more than San/Ace, but see how it plays out over the beginning of the day before you make any final decisions.
I've helped to lynch two town roles by accident already, and right now I'm not entirely convinced about Jackal being scum. If I'm wrong about that and what the scum-team is too, I'm probably the dumbest green who ever greened, but whatever.
I'm also just working on the information I have now, and nothing more, so take this post like that. If I'm still alive in the morning, then this should all be disregarded as I'll have new information to re-evaluate everything. I just wanted to share my thoughts right now, because I have a gut feeling I'm getting shot, and wanted to get them out there, rather than have them die with me.
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Day 4
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS The Terror Watch continues. With the death of Osama Bin Laden, many of us had hoped that the terror cell would give up and turn themselves in, or at least cease their terrorist activities. However, it seems that his death has only hardened their resolve. VarpuliS was found dead in his home; his throat was slashed open, and "Death to America" was written in blood on the walls. Clearly, the terror menace is still here, in force.
VarpuliS' funeral will be held today at 3:00 p.m. It will be a closed-casket ceremony, and everyone is invited to attend.
For all of us here at Channel 4 News, this is iGrok. Stay Safe.
VarpuliS the Townie is dead.
Day ends at 05:00 GMT (+00:00) May 6th.
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By the way I didn't get any messages last night.
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before anyone votes:
we need to hear from Brown Bear
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On May 04 2011 10:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Impervious, why would you give scum a guide on who would not give town information by dying before scum has sent in their kill? Why? So we could know what to expect for today.
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On May 04 2011 13:06 Ace wrote: By the way I didn't get any messages last night. That's pretty unfortunate.
Although, that may also be because the GF didn't send a message out. If so, that could end up helping us.
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On May 04 2011 13:29 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 10:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Impervious, why would you give scum a guide on who would not give town information by dying before scum has sent in their kill? Why? So we could know what to expect for today. I need to expand on this.
So far, the mafia seems to have done a pretty good job with their hits. All I did was point out what was most likely to happen. And it leaves me with the following conclusion (thank you for actually hitting him btw mafia)
There's 4 town left. I'm convinced now that Ace and sandroba are blues. I'm green. That leaves 1 other townie who I'm not too sure of.
With how Jackal has played (especially his hostile and not very well thought out replies), I'm 100% convinced he's scum. Quite possibly GF. darmousseh/BrownBear has lurked hardocre, and jumped on the bandwagon against town players pretty easily, so I'm fairly certain that he's also red. This leaves 1 mafia I'm not too sure of.
The two players left are Wiggles and Eiii. Of the two, Wiggles seems to be most pro-town, so that would make Eiii the last mafia, by default.
So, my scum list at the moment is Jackal (probably GF), Eiii, and BrownBear.
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I'm in agreement with Jackal having a high probability of being scum. From Day 1 he's accused iirc 4 different players with all kinds of bizarre logic aka Scum logic.
But we need to hear from Brownbear aka Lurkerbear first.
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On May 04 2011 13:42 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 13:29 Impervious wrote:On May 04 2011 10:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Impervious, why would you give scum a guide on who would not give town information by dying before scum has sent in their kill? Why? So we could know what to expect for today. I need to expand on this. So far, the mafia seems to have done a pretty good job with their hits. All I did was point out what was most likely to happen. And it leaves me with the following conclusion (thank you for actually hitting him btw mafia)There's 4 town left. I'm convinced now that Ace and sandroba are blues. I'm green. That leaves 1 other townie who I'm not too sure of. With how Jackal has played (especially his hostile and not very well thought out replies), I'm 100% convinced he's scum. Quite possibly GF. darmousseh/BrownBear has lurked hardocre, and jumped on the bandwagon against town players pretty easily, so I'm fairly certain that he's also red. This leaves 1 mafia I'm not too sure of. The two players left are Wiggles and Eiii. Of the two, Wiggles seems to be most pro-town, so that would make Eiii the last mafia, by default. So, my scum list at the moment is Jackal (probably GF), Eiii, and BrownBear. Now I feel like I need to elaborate on that sentence.
Varp was one of the people I had a hard time pegging. He was quick to switch votes off of players who were scummy, and I had 2nd thoughts about him, much like how Wiggles wasn't sure about him. With him gone, even though he was town, it's one less person I was having a hard time getting a read off of, and makes it easier for me to believe that Wiggles is town at the same time.
Now, the other reason for wanting him gone is actually because it would guarantee that Wiggles and Ace were still kicking. Since I'm pretty sure that both are town, having both around to do some analysis is far better than losing one of them. I haven't played a game with Varp before, but even if I was pretty sure that I'd prefer Ace and Wiggles on my side as well.
If the mafia were going to target someone else, their choices would be Ace (veteran player + intercepting messages), Wiggles (gives less info about player alignment + veteran player), me (which wouldn't help them out much at all), or sandroba (which would be detrimental since it would basically confirm Ace as being town). Simply put, if it wasn't Varp dying tonight (if I'm right with who is scum and who is town), then it would have been Wiggles or Ace. And I want both around.
Yes, my post yesterday was scummy. That was completely intentional. Now I am pretty sure that I can peg the remaining mafia.
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Ace, I'm sure you're still here. Thoughts? Am I bat-shit crazy, or am I on to something here?
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You're on to something the problem is we don't have any good links due to only a few super active posters left. We probably were better off lynching BB over tnkted but no one was sure of that before he flipped. Then again we should probably be asking how the hell did the wagon for tnkted get going so fast.
Jackal is a prime suspect and I'm pretty sure this is LYLO. Problem is we can't lynch him because Brownbear who promised to post something has followed in the footsteps of darm. We'll probably be better off lynching Jackal anyway since he's scummier than the lurker at this point.
I actually think between you, myself, sandroba and Wiggles we've got a decent core of "likely townies" to work from. Our best assumption is to operate on this belief and try to find Scum out of the Jackal, Eiii, Brownbear set. Then from there work on the group of us remaining 4 if we find enough Scum in that group. Otherwise I'm pretty sure the game is over.
To sum up this is our working set: {Impervious, Ace, sandroba, Mr.Wiggles} {Jackal58, BrownBear, Eiii}
The 2nd group has 2 lurkers and 1 active player. Our group has 3 active posters and 1 lurker who has a solid claim. I think we have to go after the 2nd group and take our chances there.
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@Imprevious Your explanation makes some sense to me, but the fact that you made a huge post at night time giving reason as to why killing varpulis would leave us at the maximum level of confusion makes me eerie. That post makes way more sense as mafia than as town to me. So, it's nice and all that your "gambit" payed off, but it didn't exactly put us in a better position because it just added to the confusion. After seeing Jackal's non logical post about how ace is mafia and so you are the canadian, I'm inclined to think you are town, as I've had a town read on you all game long, and I strongly believe jackal to be mafia. That post kind of sealed the deal for me. I want to hear more from Eiii and BB, but I still think lynching jackal is our best bet.
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Go ahead and lynch me. I'm getting tired of defending myself. Everything I say or do you guys think is scummy. It's become tedious and monotonous. But until you do I will continue to play. Ace- If your sooper dooper spy role claim is real do you get parts of messages all the time or is it just sometimes? If it's all the time I'd say BB is cell leader. He's the one that's not been here. That said though I find it next to impossible to believe you're still alive.
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I got them every day so far in between the lynch and night posts. Since I didn't get anything last night Cell Leader probably didn't send anything.
Like I said you are scummy but Brownbear's hardcore lurking act is even scummier.
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We cannot afford to lynch someone right now based purely on lurking, because we might quite possibly be at lylo. Can you point out any mafia oriented behavior from darmousseh (brownbear) posts? Add that to the fact that he asked for a substitution so his lurking really is a null tell for me.
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How can it be a null tell when 2 days ago he said he would post something? If we are at LYLO which most of us believe that leaves us with 3 Scum in a 7 player game. Even if we assume Jackal is Scum that leaves 2 players out of the remaining 6 so who do you think we should look for?
It's going to come down to dealing with lurkers anyway and if we're wrong about Jackal who IS active then it's game over. Also it's not like we haven't given Brownbear a chance to be active. Wasn't it him that was the popular lynch target before a few players vote switched to tnkted? We thought he would be modkilled but he wasn't so he was given a chance to redeem himself and still hasn't contributed. That right there is the real "tell" in this situation.
This is what we're stuck with in tnkted's case:
Votes Sandroba Jackal58 Mr. Wiggles
VarpuliS
4 active players one of which is dead. The only saving grace here is that Jackal is also on this wagon. So that is another piece of evidence against him. So really this comes down to going with our best read right now (Jackal imo) or taking the read on Brownbear (just as scummy imo). The thing is Jackal's behavior can in some ways be looked at as town but Bear's can't because he just doesn't post. So we have to decide now and everyone go with it.
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From what I can gather BB is a vet and a very good player, so hopefully he can post some analysis to help us figure it out either way. I wish Eiii would post a bit more as well.
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Ace, whichever one you want to go for, I'll support it. We need to work together on this one.
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*nod of acknowledgment*
Waiting on BB and Eiii to post their thoughts of the game so far.
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This is taking way too long. Voted for BB. Lets see what happens now.
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Jackal is getting a lot of heat, but I'm pretty convinced he's town-- his play seems similar/identical to how he played in insane 2.
Impervious/Ace are the two active players I think are most suspicious-- I've said why I think ace could be red before, and now looking back on things impervious has moved from thinking ace was red day 1 to completely believing his claim to saying that they 'need to work together'. Ace being kind of sketchy and impervious doing a 180 recently on him smells a lot to me like a CL/sleeper relationship.
obviously bb is suspicious because he's still lurking and not doing anything and that sucks
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On May 05 2011 01:08 Ace wrote: *nod of acknowledgment*
Waiting on BB and Eiii to post their thoughts of the game so far.
Never wait on other people to post your thoughts. You just might end up waiting forever.
(I haven't vanished, I'm collecting thoughts to post later tonight when I'm not doing homework.)
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On May 05 2011 07:48 Eiii wrote: Jackal is getting a lot of heat, but I'm pretty convinced he's town-- his play seems similar/identical to how he played in insane 2.
Impervious/Ace are the two active players I think are most suspicious-- I've said why I think ace could be red before, and now looking back on things impervious has moved from thinking ace was red day 1 to completely believing his claim to saying that they 'need to work together'. Ace being kind of sketchy and impervious doing a 180 recently on him smells a lot to me like a CL/sleeper relationship.
obviously bb is suspicious because he's still lurking and not doing anything and that sucks You're lurking too. Thanks for your support but I've been saying since this game started the scum are lurkers.
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On May 05 2011 07:48 Eiii wrote: Jackal is getting a lot of heat, but I'm pretty convinced he's town-- his play seems similar/identical to how he played in insane 2.
Impervious/Ace are the two active players I think are most suspicious-- I've said why I think ace could be red before, and now looking back on things impervious has moved from thinking ace was red day 1 to completely believing his claim to saying that they 'need to work together'. Ace being kind of sketchy and impervious doing a 180 recently on him smells a lot to me like a CL/sleeper relationship.
obviously bb is suspicious because he's still lurking and not doing anything and that sucks Ace was sketchy to me as well. I did vote for him to be lynched on the first day, remember? And I was voicing my suspicion on a few occasions early on.
However, a few things have changed my mind.
I initially thought that if there were going to be unlisted roles, either a miller and/or a vet and/or a medic would be likely. We have confirmed that non-listed roles are in the game (miller), so a claim of vet seems likely to be legit. And, with how creative the miller's role was, Ace's claim isn't too farfetched either. I was suspicious of it initially, but with the death of our beloved miller, my suspicion has been eased.
I don't believe Ace just because he said he's some kind of role similar to a DT, I believe him because sandroba claimed vet before Ace actually spelled out his role. It actually makes a lot of sense. And without being able to directly talk with each other, this is a little too elaborate and creative of a plan for the mafia to fake it so quickly.
You, on the other hand, have absolutely nothing going for you. Jackal has looked very scummy, and has a ~50% chance through pure random chance to be red, thanks to the DT check. darmousseh/BB has lurked a lot, which does not help much either. You three are my primary choices for scum, and the fact that you're actually defending Jackal right now doesn't help that imo.
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Also, when it's likely 4 town vs 3 mafia, of course the town needs to work together..... A divided town is a loss right now.
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Ok, so I have reread the thread, and I think, in a LYLO situation, our best option is to mass roleclaim right now. Seeing as apparently we are allowed to post the text of our Role PM, I think it's time.
Actually, just to make 100% sure, We are allowed to do what tnkted did, right?
Right now, I'm a bit confused as to why people claimed blue and green, and immediately got lynched. tnkted's makes a bit more sense because of the color-coded thing, but I'm a little bit curious as to why you guys lynched bum. There was a lot of argument and not really that much being said.
One thing I have noticed, though is one name tends to come up as pushing for the lynch of both claimants: Jackal58. That makes him the most suspicious in my book. I want to wait for the mass roleclaim before I push anyone for sure, though.
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...really? People really can't rag on me for being inactive if this is the speed we're going at.
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wheres the rest of your post?
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Waiting on iGrok to confirm/deny the possibility of a roleclaim the way tnkted did it.
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Yes you are allowed to post Role PMs.
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On May 05 2011 15:48 BrownBear wrote: Waiting on iGrok to confirm/deny the possibility of a roleclaim the way tnkted did it. How long is it taking you to write that thing? Or are you going back through your posts/darmousseh's posts trying to find something you can use as a breadcrumb?
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Wiggles? You still alive? What are your thoughts on the situation?
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HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
There's the role PM I got from iGrok a few days back.
I'm going to say this again:
IT'S TIME TO MASS ROLECLAIM.
As far as I can tell, town doesn't really have a decent suspect in who to lynch, and we're in LYLO. I think the best option at the moment is to throw as much evidence as possible on the table, so I want to see everyone post their role PMs.
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I am laughing so hard right now
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We need more activity in this thread. We are most likely at lylo and people just don't seem to care. I have a birthday party at 8 o'clock kst and I have to decide who to vote for by then and I'd would like to see Eiii, Wiggles and BB posts before I do. I can't understand why BB has to ask for iGrok's permission to post his role pm after so many people have done so already, and it's been several hours since his got the permission and I'm still waiting.
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Ninja'ed. So BB, why did you have to ask permission before claiming, seeing how so many people have done so by now?
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On May 06 2011 02:56 sandroba wrote: Ninja'ed. So BB, why did you have to ask permission before claiming, seeing how so many people have done so by now?
Because I just joined the game, and was once modkilled for doing this exact thing, so I wanted to make 100% sure.
Really, not sure why this is a question.
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Because I don't know how you can scumhunt if you didn't bother to read the thread. 4 players have already roleclaimed and have not been modkilled. Isn't that insurance enough?
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First, we can try to mass role-claim, but that's not really going to help anything. Everyone knows what the Green Role PM looks like, so Imp/Eiii/Jackal/BB are all going to claim green unless there's even more blues, because it's the most easily faked role PM. So, feel free if we want, but when everyone claims green, I'm going to laugh.
I also think that I'm pretty green-looking right now. I claimed townie before Varp who claimed the same thing, and he flipped town, so unless I'm scum and got the same text as in the OP and decided to take the risk of claiming townie and hoping the town PM was the same as the OP for no particular reason, I think town can trust me to be green.
As for the lynch today. I'm trusting San/Ace more right now, but I'm trying to figure out who the best target would be. I'm thinking maybe BB. The reason for this is he has looked very scummy for quite a while, but beyond that, he is scum independent of Ace/San and Jackal. If we want to go after Jackal, then we need to make the judgment call that Ace/San are town for sure. That would make them town, and at least one of Imp/Eii/Jackal/BB town as well. The other three (maybe two, but I'm going to assume higher numbers) would then be mafia. If Ace/San are scum, then three of Imp/Eii/Jackal/BB are town, and one is scum. So, if Ace/San are town, we have a mafia-rich pool of lynch candidates to assure the win, if they're scum, then there's only one more mafia in that group. So, what I think, is that we should lynch BB, because I believe him to be the common link between both possibilities, regardless of the alignment of anyone else.
Here's how it would play out:
Lynch BB, flips scum 4 town, 2 mafia Mafia hits 3 town, 2 mafia
So, the night will give us information, depending on who gets hit. In the morning, we'll still be in MYLO, but the numbers will be reduced and town should hopefully be able to figure out who's who better. I'll fully expect one of Eiii/Imp/myself to die though, so it will be up to the one remaining green to figure out whether to side with San/Ace, or with Jackal and whoever. However, you should be able to figure out just by the voting patterns on that day, what's happening.
You know you're green. You know there's either two blues alive, or two greens alive. Whether San/Ace are red/blue, they're likely to vote together that day. However, the other two players shouldn't be voting together right away. So, watch very closely how they act. If San/Ace are red, then the other players should be going through the same thought processes as you and trying to figure out who's red or not. However, if it seems like they know what they're doing, and they band together right away without going through these thought processes, then they're probably red. If it comes down to two groups of people trying to convince you to lynch each other, then I'd be more likely to side with Ace/San. They know what each other are regardless of alignment. Jackal+1 do not however, so it would seem odd if they had that amount of coordination without any of the back and forth that would be expected if they were green, and might be indicative that they're red.
So there's my plan. Lynch BB, and try to figure out who's who tomorrow, when there's more information. Right now I'm leaning that San/Ace are town, and that Eiii is another mafia, probably with Jackal. Then it's up to the last town tomorrow to figure out who to side with, with my advice on how to do it.
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same thing I was laughing about. A few people have already role claimed also. I'm pretty sure Brown Bear didn't read the thread.
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Here are my two questions to everyone who's left in the game, and I'd like to see them answered.
1: Why in the name of sweet baby Jesus is Ace still alive? I have seen his blue claim, its kind of weakly tucked at the bottom of a longer post. After bum's claim and lynch, I can understand not wanting to potentially kill another blue, but Impervious raises a good point:
On May 02 2011 02:39 Impervious wrote: Well, if Ace is telling the truth, lets not make the same mistake that was made with bum. If Ace can still intercept messages, he can be of use to the town, so the Mafia will want to eliminate him.
So, even if you don't believe him, leaving him alive for the night is far more useful to us than killing him..... We'll get more information either way.
We left him alive for the night, and now he's alive. Also, if he really can intercept parts of the leader's messages (like he claims he can), I'd love to see them. That could lend some serious weight behind his claim.
Now, we can WIFOM all we want about how Ace could never be that stupid because it's far too obvious (but it could be just obvious enough that we all ignore it blah blah blah), but right now, here's what I know:
1) Ace is a veteran, extremely skilled player, known for his MAFIA play. 2) Ace has claimed a role, but I really haven't seen much information besides "Lol I'm Undercover Agent I shot GGQ he's scum love me guys" (And if you shot GGQ, where's the other night kill? Where is it? WHERE?) 3) Ace has claimed a role that to me seems rather broken and overpowered. Night shot plus the ability to read part of the sleeper cell messages? Color me skeptical.
Right now, I have a strong feeling that Ace is scum, and just playing you all for fools.
Anyway, second question: After bum died and flipped, proving he was telling the truth, why has his scumlist basically been ignored?
I'm beginning to seriously wonder about that. I've gone back, and his list consisted of: Ace, Jackal, Wiggles. He checked Jackal and got back "not enough info"... I wonder if that was actually random, or if Jackal might in fact be the Cell Leader? More importantly, though, after he died and flipped, why was there not an immediate dissection of everything he said, looking through his analysis, casting suspicion on those he fingered, forcing them to defend themselves. WHY WAS TNKTED, WHO CLAIMED GREEN, LYNCHED INSTEAD OF ONE OF THESE THREE? That was one of the worst town plays I've seen in a very long time.
(If anyone says "well, why didn't you do it then", I'm going to slap then, because I wasn't fucking there until way after the fact, and this is all stuff that should have been done the day after bum died, if not the night after.
Anyway, summary of my thoughts: Ace is scum, lynch him, town is dumb, being strung along by mafia. Roleclaim if you haven't yet. Just do it. We don't have any margin for error.
##Vote: Ace
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BB...read the thread. I've posted the messages and we've been through the NK discussion already.
FYI: I'm known for my town play more than my scum play. But both are so good I'm just a boss like that.
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discussions about bum's claim already happened also. Likewise he was a detective with an inconclusive result - that means he had just as much information as everyone else. Just because he flipped Town doesn't mean he's correct about everything.
likewise tnkted was lynched because no one believed his claim and he had a GREEN PM that no one else had.
Keep up man
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On May 06 2011 04:40 Ace wrote: BB...read the thread. I've posted the messages and we've been through the NK discussion already.
FYI: I'm known for my town play more than my scum play. But both are so good I'm just a boss like that.
I've seen the messages, you could have very easily faked them.
Also, If you're more known for your town play than your scum play, then that makes me even more mistrustful of you still being alive.
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BB, you seem to be selectively reading the thread and the only reason I can think of why you are doing so is because you already know who the scum team is. So I'm voting for you.
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yes I could have easily faked them - we've had this discussion. The missing night kill? sandroba
tnkted's and bum's situations? already argued to death
So really you made us wait so long for you just to rehash old points? :/
Do you have anything NEW to bring to the table? If you're gonna accuse me of being scum at least make it interesting. Digging up old bones isn't what bears do
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2) Ace has claimed a role, but I really haven't seen much information besides "Lol I'm Undercover Agent I shot GGQ he's scum love me guys" (And if you shot GGQ, where's the other night kill? Where is it? WHERE?) 3) Ace has claimed a role that to me seems rather broken and overpowered. Night shot plus the ability to read part of the sleeper cell messages? Color me skeptical.
2) San claimed Vet 3) Apparently the un-NK-able role existed, so I'm not going to put this one past being real because of how weird it seemed.
I also didn't pay attention to BB's list, because it was BS, and I knew it was BS. It was drawn entirely from "breadcrumbs", and when he's trying to link me in with them, when I know I'm green, it makes the whole thing look wrong. I don't trust it anymore, because if that part of it was wrong, what assurance do I have that the rest of it was right, when that's all he seemed to be drawing it on?
Also, the reason Ace is alive for the last night, is that if they killed him, and he flipped town, we'd have a "confirmed" town in San. First night, he wasn't doing anything, so they killed someone else. Second night, they supposedly hit San for some reason. Not too far of a stretch to consider that he's alive except for what happened on N2, and that still relates to his blue claim.
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On May 06 2011 04:43 Ace wrote: discussions about bum's claim already happened also. Likewise he was a detective with an inconclusive result - that means he had just as much information as everyone else. Just because he flipped Town doesn't mean he's correct about everything.
likewise tnkted was lynched because no one believed his claim and he had a GREEN PM that no one else had.
Regarding bum: Doesn't matter if he was CORRECT or not, however,what does matter is we know that his analysis was pro-town. He was trying to catch scum, that means we can trust his analysis to 100% have good intentions behind it. That means it's worth looking into, if nothing else. It's worth dissecting, analyzing, it's worth throwing extra suspicion on everyone on his scumlist to see how they respond, it's a potential gold mine of information town completely ignored. It's not too late to get anything out of it, but it's getting closer.
And I know about tnkted's green PM. You seem to be operating under the impression I haven't read the thread, which is a cute way to try to marginalize me, but I am aware of most of the events of this game. My point was, we had a scumlist from bum that should have at least been in the conversation - but tnkted and his "green PM" were considered more important somehow. What should have been on everyone's mind was: tnkted knew what the town PM looked like due to earlier claims, why the hell would he be so stupid as to fake up a role PM that makes him look super fake? Answer: Extremely unlikely he would do something like that. He's not an idiot. I think town has been very misguided all game, and I'm noticing more and more it looks like you pulling the strings.
Be less condescending, and try harder
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If town really wants to lynch me and end the game, feel free. Thing is, I'm almost positive those driving my lynch are scum. Think about it: Anyone who's tunneling in on one person in a LYLO situation (which is exactly what's happening now with Ace/Wiggles/sandroba) is most likely scum trying to dominate the last day discussion, get a free lynch, and end the game. Nobody should be this sure about their lynch unless they already know the lynch is going to benefit them. And town can't know my death will benefit them, because they don't know 100% if I'm scum or not. Thus, I'm very sold on Ace being scum, and now starting to be suspicious of his "buddy" san, and Mr. Wiggles, as well.
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by the way how could tnkted know what the town PM looked like due to earlier claims? Who claimed before him?
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On May 06 2011 04:23 Mr. Wiggles wrote: First, we can try to mass role-claim, but that's not really going to help anything. Everyone knows what the Green Role PM looks like...
I couldn't find it after tnkted's roleclaim (and before mine), so unless someone's really fucking good at hiding it, I'm pretty sure that means it exists somewhere.
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On May 03 2011 06:23 VarpuliS wrote:This might not be relevant at all, but he's had this set up for basically the entire game. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Show nested quote +Down-on-your-luck Stock Broker Everything was going you way in the mid 2000s. Then the economy tanked, you lost most of your wealth, and your wife divorced you and took what was left! Now you are stuck roaming the streets of Liquidville. Because you are homeless, everyone in town is suspicious of you – investigations on you will always return “Not Town”. Fortunately for you, though, at night you can disappear into the alleyways, making it impossible to find (and then shoot) you! DSBETNLBNTF. The capital letters of the PM match the breadcrumb he left. Either this is a genius fake, or he was smart and gave us a way to confirm him.
This is one other thing I just wanted to point out.
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On May 03 2011 12:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Roleclaim time:
HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
And before anyone stirs up stuff, yes it is the same as in the OP. However, there's a major difference. The name isn't coloured in any way.
On May 03 2011 12:39 VarpuliS wrote:are we roleclaiming now? Cool. Show nested quote +Original Message From iGrok: You will be replacing in for why. Here is your role:
HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
glhf ^^
Notice how it's exactly the same as in the OP, sans the the green and the bold. From the OP: Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: HONEST CITIZEN: You are a peaceful citizen of Liquidville. How could a terrorist cell ever appear in your town?! Your goal is to survive and help town discover and kill the Sleeper Cell. You have a single vote by day.
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...and, nevermind, I just saw Wiggles' post. Dammit, now I look like a fool.
This confirms Wiggles as town to me, though.
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good BB, now read the part where we got up to the reason for lynching you
4 of us are in the "most likely town" pool and 3 of you are in the "probably scum" pool. When you didn't post for a while some of us took that as a sign that you surely are scum. Jackal has been active, and Eiii is...well I'm not sure what the difference between you and him is to be honest. He's gotten a free pass also.
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I fail to see how this is relevant now, because by then we did not know if he was lying or not. What happened is town was divided between lynching yourself and jackal and out of the blue tnkted pop up, role claimed and random voted wiggles with no reasoning behind it.
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On May 06 2011 05:07 Ace wrote:good BB, now read the part where we got up to the reason for lynching you 4 of us are in the "most likely town" pool and 3 of you are in the "probably scum" pool. When you didn't post for a while some of us took that as a sign that you surely are scum. Jackal has been active, and Eiii is...well I'm not sure what the difference between you and him is to be honest. He's gotten a free pass also.
Inactivity is no excuse to lynch in a LYLO situation.
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For me, it's not inactivity. It's inactivity combined with how Darm acted. I voted tnkted, but I also fully expected you to get modkilled, meaning that at worst we'd lose 1 town, 1 scum, and at best, 2 scum, but then you survived, so this isn't a new suspicion. I pushed Darm on day 1 for how he was acting, and varp didn't like how he played for every other day after that.
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we can't no lynch. Everyone is required to vote.
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On May 06 2011 05:21 Ace wrote: we can't no lynch. Everyone is required to vote.
Did I say no lynch? Clearly, my vote on you speaks otherwise.
It's pretty clear you're trying very hard to piss me off through your condescending attitude, and you're trying to make me look as though what I say shouldn't matter. Basically, you want me to get pissed and rage, and you want people to ignore me and just lynch me. What does that say about you?
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That says you're WIFOMing yourself into the lynch rope. I'm just so amazed that it took you 48 hours to give us a summary of what we already know and didn't read the thread. I don't know why you'd want us to lynch an active player over 2 inactive players when we've already established there's a good chance we're in LYLO. But keep harping on about lynching me, you're doing a good job of convincing yourself.
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United States22154 Posts
[spectral voice] just me and the other spirits of the dead I think [/spectral voice]
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well, at least the former players are around ^_^
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oh snap! both hosts late!
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On May 06 2011 12:03 Ace wrote: oh snap! both hosts late! [spectral voice] day ends at midnight, no?[/spectral voice]
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On May 06 2011 12:04 GMarshal wrote:[spectral voice] day ends at midnight, no?[/spectral voice] [spectral voice]Not for XXXIX...[/spectral voice]
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oh I was looking at 12 KST.
WHERE IS EVERYONE!
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so the only person not to vote is Eiii.
How come there isn't much fighting over this lynch?
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Of course, if Eiii doesn't vote, we'll be hitting 2 of the 3 likely scum..... So I don't see that as a bad thing. Unless 1 of them is actually town, in which case, we're basically fucked.
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I still can't believe you fuckers shot me.
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Night 4
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS
My fellow Liquidians, I have terrible, terrible news.
Earlier today, we began the final preparations for President Qatol's visit. Banners were put up, cameras were placed, and the final town meeting was held to stamp out the terrorist cell. Only three people walked out of the Community Center. And President Qatol was killed by a Sniper Bullet the moment his motorcade made it in to town.
The Terrorists have defeated us on our homeland. Liquidville is deserted, and all of Liquidia is in mourning.
For the final time, this is iGrok from Channel 4. Peace be with us all.
The nervous population of Liquidia quickly gathered in the town square for what would be their final meeting. They new that this was their final chance to catch a criminal. The town's trust was fragmented. No one individual was clearly a terrorist agent. As their arguments grew heated, one individual immediately stood out as a shady character - BrownBear, who stood off to himself in the shadows. Faced with pressure from his superiors, Deputy Director Chaoser ordered BrownBear to be arrested and brought in for questioning. BrownBear violently protested his innocence, and overpowered the arresting officer, stealing his gun. Brownbear then rushed towards Ace, pointing the gun in his direction.
"Ace is scum! I'm sure of it!" BrownBear cried. He was merely feet from Ace when Mr. Wiggles tackled him from behind. Wiggles knew who the townies were. He trusted Ace, who had done nothing but push proper lynches and town objectives all game. Mr. Wiggles tried to wrestle the gun from BrownBear's grasp, and the gun fired - the bullet was instantly struck by a bolt of lightning, changing its direction and striking Eiii in the head, killing him instantly. As the body crumpled to the ground, green blood poured from the wound, and Mr. Wiggles finally got control of the weapon and pointed it at BrownBear. "Goodbye, scum. Lynch All Lurkers."
He pulled the trigger again and again, until the clip was empty. And slowly, a pool of green blood began to form around BrownBear's body. Mr. Wiggles looked up towards Ace, looking for answers, but Ace was looking at something over Wiggles' shoulder. As Mr. Wiggles turned around, Sandroba shot him in the chest with a 12-gauge sawed-off shotgun. Mr. Wiggles' green eyes stayed wide open in death.
Impervious, Jackal58, Ace and Sandroba all turned to face each other. Jackal looked directly at Ace, who stared coolly back. Impervious' focus rapidly switched between both of them. Slowly, Ace pulled a pistol from his jacket, and tossed it to Jackal. "I hope you die.", Ace said with a grin. Jackal's eyes shot open. "So, you were the cell leader all along. I never knew." Without looking, Jackal shot Impervious, and the three remaining cell members walked out. to prepare a welcome for the President.
Day 4 has ended.
Eiii the Townie is dead. BrownBear the Townie is dead. Wr. Wiggles the Townie is dead. Impervious the Townie is dead.
Thank you for playing Sleeper Cell Mafia! I hope you enjoyed it. A full role list will be posted soon.
I am really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on the setup!
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lol...so fail town...GG to Jackal, sandroba, and of course, Ace
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lololololol. Poor Jackal
On May 06 2011 13:05 GGQ wrote: I still can't believe you fuckers shot me.
I was so sad v_v
But hey Jackal tried to shoot me twice so dont feel bad ^_^
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United States22154 Posts
I almost shot Ace night 1, my gut told me he was scum, and then he shot me.
FML
should have shot, didn't expect to die.
Also ace, the point of those lists was to get a read on who players were thought good to better distribute your kills right?
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I'm sorry that inactivity and modkills did so much damage to this game, because I thought it was a really cool idea and I had a lot of fun playing it.
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How did you guys not notice that Ace was on Jackal's ass all game but then he didn't lynch him? Or that mafia didn't kill Ace? All this "If they shoot ace they confirm sandroba thing" is retarded. That line of thought meant you already thought they were townies -_- so fail.
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On May 06 2011 13:16 GMarshal wrote: I almost shot Ace night 1, my gut told me he was scum, and then he shot me.
FML
should have shot, didn't expect to die.
Also ace, the point of those lists was to get a read on who players were thought good to better distribute your kills right?
what lists?
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Also, bum pegged the whole frigging mafia team and you guys just disregarded it.
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On May 06 2011 13:17 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:16 GMarshal wrote: I almost shot Ace night 1, my gut told me he was scum, and then he shot me.
FML
should have shot, didn't expect to die.
Also ace, the point of those lists was to get a read on who players were thought good to better distribute your kills right? what lists?
The whole "if you were a cell leader who would you message and what would you say?"
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its not what you know, it's what you can convince people to believe
besides bum never had a concrete "ok these guys have to be scum and there is no other way" post
On May 06 2011 13:18 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:17 Ace wrote:On May 06 2011 13:16 GMarshal wrote: I almost shot Ace night 1, my gut told me he was scum, and then he shot me.
FML
should have shot, didn't expect to die.
Also ace, the point of those lists was to get a read on who players were thought good to better distribute your kills right? what lists? The whole "if you were a cell leader who would you message and what would you say?"
That list was just me playing around to waste time. I thought Jackal was obvious scum and would get bagged Day 1 or 2 but he lived.
By the way I never communicated any hidden messages in the thread. Day 1 I sent a hint to GGQ about me and Jackal being his allies, and then the next one was the same message to sandroba.
Rean got modkilled (lulz) and I only sent taunts and death threats to Jackal. I wanted to keep at least 1 of the team completely in the dark so they wouldn't be caught by association.
By the way sandroba gets major props for that vet claim. I was already planning to false claim as soon as I realized they killed GGQ. Next day sandroba busts out with that Vet claim and I'm like oh shit! Perfect claim! I never even messaged him about it he just did it out of no where.
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Role List 1. Impervious -- Townie 2. Jackal58 -- Sleeper Agent 3. Mr. Wiggles -- Townie 4. GMarshal -- Intelligence Agent 5. GGQ -- Sleeper Agent 6. Ace -- Cell Leader 7. Rean -- Sleeper Agent 8. Eiii -- Townie 9. Kenpachi -- Townie 10. Tackster -- Townie 11. VarpuliS -- Townie 12. tnkted -- Stock Broker 13. bumatlarge -- Intelligence Analyst 14. Vain -- Townie 15. BrownBear -- Townie 16. Sandroba -- Sleeper Agent
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shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
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Good job on lynching your analyst and hobo town lol
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For the future: The sleeper agents might need individual roles (Scum DT, Roleblocker) because it's really hard to have team synergy with 1 way comms. The CL doesn't even have to know their roles to make it a bit more like this game.
bulletproof townie is insane
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I got the first message from Ace, so I knew he was CL right away. When he started defending jackal from bum, I knew that jackal must be mafia as well, so I figured that why/varpulis was the last mafia because jackal, why and I were all among the players Ace said he would message if he were CL. I thought that up until the moment where sandroba claimed vet, haha.
Ace is the boss, by the way, lol. Town just got further and further away from figuring out what was going on as the game progressed. On day 2, I figured Ace would be able to get bum lynched so I argued against Ace for bum's sake both to prevent the lynch from being too one-sided, and to keep town's focus on that one issue instead of actually scum-hunting. I dont know if jackal and sandroba were already going to kill me just for that, or if they killed me because of my 'scumhunting' at night. If it was my night posts, then I blame Ace! Ace sent me a message saying 'kill the Canadian poster tonight'. Well, Wiggles and Impervious are both Canadian! So I tried to crumb this to Ace by asking Wiggles to analyse Impervious. Ace didn't pick up on it, so I asked him what he thought of the analysis. He still didn't figure it out, lol. So I just guessed Wiggles but it didn't end up mattering anyway . Ah well, job well done, sleeper cell.
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Personally, MVP goes to Ace.
As the Cell Leader, any other player would have attempted to tell all mafia members who the others were. But Ace did not do that. Instead, he intentionally left Jackal in the dark. This was actually brilliant, because it prevented town from getting a good read on alliances. If Jackal had been lynched, Ace and Sandroba would have been confirmed town. Sandroba also had no idea that Jackal was scum, which further helped the relationships be real.
Other notes: Mafia DID actually kill GGQ lol. Which was hilarious. I think the modkills actually kind of balanced out over the game. One scum modkill and 2 town modkills iirc. bum's claim was hilarious and terrible. Sandroba's Vet claim was a great call, that confirmed both him and Ace. This was without any communication between them to do so. Sandroba gets the Second Most Valuable Player award lol.
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Ace being cell leader and sandroba being a sleeper was the exact situation I was afraid of. But I figured it was so unlikely :/
gj guys!
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On May 06 2011 13:17 GMarshal wrote: Also, bum pegged the whole frigging mafia team and you guys just disregarded it.
Not me! :D
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Regarding the Bullet-proof townie Miller role:
This was town's failsafe. This is the guy who should be drawing all kinds of hits and never claim unless checked. He can claim a blue role, do awesome scum analysis, w/e, just draw the hits and make the game last longer. That's his goal. I thought tnkted did pretty well as it, even if he didn't draw any hits.
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Ace's messages:
##GGQ "Cards are good for you"
##sandroba "two others make blackjack 21"
##jackal58
I hope you die :D
#GGQ
tonight kill the Canadian poster
#jackal58
"well that night ended well"
##sandroba
MVP move with that roleclaim!
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@GGQ: I actually didn't know they were both Canadian until after the message v_v
@Impervious: You were so close a few times. When bum claimed and you believed him I was like "damn, guess I actually have to work to get this bastard DT lynched"
@Igrok and chaoser: This setup has tons of potential. Probably just as good as normal mini mafia. If you draw scum in this game and aren't a CL I think you have a harder time than almost any other setup. Good for training tho!
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On May 06 2011 13:19 Ace wrote: its not what you know, it's what you can convince people to believe
besides bum never had a concrete "ok these guys have to be scum and there is no other way" post
Yeah sorry about that lol
On April 30 2011 11:55 bumatlarge wrote: Aw, jackal vote yourself like a man. I hope you guys at least rally up so you know what to do after you do this.
Jackal Ace Wiggles maybe sandroba, but not sure.
Ace succeeds at convincing town to lynch the DT again. Props Ace.
Apologies to wiggles, but I didn't suspect GGQ for shit. (neither did the sand and jackal lololol) And I did mix up Ace and jackal as CL.
But come one town, you didn't follow up on anything, Jackal should have been an easy catch for you guys even if I was never in the game. Then after I specifically say "TNKTED IS DEFINTE BLUE" you god damn lynch him. AND EVEN AFTER THAT, after you mull over the whole role PM thing that ace and san are probably right and tnkted was caught in a 'lie', you completely ignore what you gained from lynching him. And then you proceed to lynch brownbear...
I don't know what kind of psychic powers Ace possesses, but he absolutely facerolled us. Sand made a spectacular vet claim, and GGQ was mist in the wind. And Jackal, because even for his abysmal play otherwise, it still would have eventually manifested itself in helping his team if he ever died, or one of them did. I think he figured out exactly what was going on when ace and sand blue claimed. Props mafia, you deserved that one.
Town, I am disappoint.
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On May 06 2011 13:15 Ace wrote:lololololol. Poor Jackal I was so sad v_v But hey Jackal tried to shoot me twice so dont feel bad ^_^ You prick. I played this whole thing in the dark. I voted you the second time cause I was damn near positive you were the cell leader. It was a very gentle "fuck you".
I mean really. What was the point of keeping me in the dark? First time I ever play scum and I ended up trying to play it like an SK. I was clueless.
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On May 06 2011 13:30 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:17 GMarshal wrote: Also, bum pegged the whole frigging mafia team and you guys just disregarded it. Not me! :D Yeah but your own team shot you, so you don't count.
Also I figured out the best play is for all the cell members to intentionally try to spread out their shots, so that way the CL can choose who gets shot and avoid shooting its own team. Ofc its not easy, but it assuming the team is good at doing this they could have the CL always pick who to kill
A good way of doing this would be to have the whole team just pick the person below them alphabetically for example. The hard thing would be communicating this to the team.
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On May 06 2011 13:33 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:15 Ace wrote:lololololol. Poor Jackal On May 06 2011 13:05 GGQ wrote: I still can't believe you fuckers shot me. I was so sad v_v But hey Jackal tried to shoot me twice so dont feel bad ^_^ You prick. I played this whole thing in the dark. I voted you the second time cause I was damn near positive you were the cell leader. It was a very gentle "fuck you". I mean really. What was the point of keeping me in the dark? First time I ever play scum and I ended up trying to play it like an SK. I was clueless.
you were so rabid that it actually helped us win! If myself or sandroba aka The Sand Man died you looked like a saint for raging hard on me. At one point I was like "god damn, if Jackal keeps going he's gonna get us all killed" but somehow it didn't happen.
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On May 06 2011 13:31 Ace wrote: @Impervious: You were so close a few times. When bum claimed and you believed him I was like "damn, guess I actually have to work to get this bastard DT lynched"
Tbh, I wasn't too sure he was legit. What I was sure of was that it would have been better to have him alive than dead.
Also, sick move with the roleclaim (you and sandroba).
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United States22154 Posts
Overall it was an awesome game, thanks to iGrok and chaoser for hosting this awesome setup. Next time put medics in or something to keep me from dying N1! I really wonder what I would have said to bums claim if I didn't know it was real, or Ace's for that matter.
EDIT: and Ace when you make your return to normal games I want to be on your mafia team, your destruction of the town was something to learn from
EDIT2: also kudos to sand, who was convinced jackal was going to get himself lynched all game long, he played a pretty scary game as mafia too.
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Screw scum. That shits hard to pull off.
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Who knows when I'll return to normal games. I'll just update my Scum Guide someday because playing Scum is lots of fun, especially when you get ridiculous characters like L or RebirthofLegend aka suicide Bob in irc. There is just so much that goes into it that unless you get lucky to roll Scum a few times in a row it takes a while to get used to game flow and reading people.
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I think I saved my additional sandroba analysis, I'll try to find it. I'm really angry at zorkmid, but I'm glad he didn't do more harm then he could have. He's going to have to come up with a helluva good reason if he ever wants to play here again, at least in the same game as me.
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......uh, I thought day ended tomorrow. Fuck, sorry about that. :/
EDIT: Oh, of course. It's may 5 where I am but may 6 on tl -_-
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On May 06 2011 13:44 bumatlarge wrote: I think I saved my additional sandroba analysis, I'll try to find it. I'm really angry at zorkmid, but I'm glad he didn't do more harm then he could have. He's going to have to come up with a helluva good reason if he ever wants to play here again, at least in the same game as me.
like I said he ruined a possibly good moment v_v
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I missed the post, what did it say?
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And of course that started inklings of me being right since he jumped on the wagon. It defintely would have played out differently, but I am satisfied with the outcome to an extent. And I mainly added the claim because my sister was having a baby! Didn't think I'd have any time to post after the analysis, but of course I made myself find time. In other news, I will be the godfather (which totals to 3 godchildren I have). Found that pretty funny
Thanks iGrok and chaoser! Fantastic set-up.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 06 2011 13:52 GGQ wrote: I missed the post, what did it say? He quoted a huge post about how bum was probably lying and said something along the lines of "if I were cell leader why would I quit, thats a fun role, lol"
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congrats!
looks like you'll be broke every Christmas
@GGQ: what post?
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United States22154 Posts
On May 06 2011 13:53 bumatlarge wrote:And of course that started inklings of me being right since he jumped on the wagon. It defintely would have played out differently, but I am satisfied with the outcome to an extent. And I mainly added the claim because my sister was having a baby! Didn't think I'd have any time to post after the analysis, but of course I made myself find time. In other news, I will be the godfather (which totals to 3 godchildren I have). Found that pretty funny Thanks iGrok and chaoser! Fantastic set-up.
ooooh, congratulations man! Thats awesome news!
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Hey, I figured out ace was mafia day 1. Also, I knew jackal was mafia since night 1, I kept pushing for him and changing my mind on the last minute. I would like to thank foolishness for being an awesome coach and helping me all the way to victory. GG guys.
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On May 06 2011 13:44 bumatlarge wrote: I think I saved my additional sandroba analysis, I'll try to find it. I'm really angry at zorkmid, but I'm glad he didn't do more harm then he could have. He's going to have to come up with a helluva good reason if he ever wants to play here again, at least in the same game as me. I raged. I was trying my damnedest to get off of your hook and he comes in and posts that shit.
Why didn't you guys ever lynch me?
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On May 06 2011 13:59 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:44 bumatlarge wrote: I think I saved my additional sandroba analysis, I'll try to find it. I'm really angry at zorkmid, but I'm glad he didn't do more harm then he could have. He's going to have to come up with a helluva good reason if he ever wants to play here again, at least in the same game as me. I raged. I was trying my damnedest to get off of your hook and he comes in and posts that shit. Why didn't you guys ever lynch me? I tried to. On multiple occasions.
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On May 06 2011 14:01 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:59 Jackal58 wrote:On May 06 2011 13:44 bumatlarge wrote: I think I saved my additional sandroba analysis, I'll try to find it. I'm really angry at zorkmid, but I'm glad he didn't do more harm then he could have. He's going to have to come up with a helluva good reason if he ever wants to play here again, at least in the same game as me. I raged. I was trying my damnedest to get off of your hook and he comes in and posts that shit. Why didn't you guys ever lynch me? I tried to. On multiple occasions. Must be my stellar good looks.
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I was going for the extremelly pro-town aproach, so later I could push for people that made mistakes. That was the case for zorkmid (bumatlarge) and tnkted. I was really afraid of pointing out the discrepancies on tnkted's role claim, because I figure you guys would realize I looked very hard at it before making my own. I had to claim vet pretty quickly, else ace's claim wouldn't hold. I was planing to bus jackal the whole time, but every time some townie made a out-of-the-blue role claim, so I could switch to him at the last minute. GG town. Props to ace for his amazing play.
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MR. WIGGLES looked at the town assembled before him in the small apartment. These were the last of his once peaceful town, and he knew at least half of them were terrorist scum. Sandroba and Ace shouted out, "You can trust us, we're working for the government!", while Impervious and Brownbear looked at them in disdain, shaking their heads and yelling, "Don't believe them, we're the true townies here!". MR. WIGGLES looked at both groups, and then at Eiii who lay comatose on the floor, and Jackal who stood forgotten in a corner. "HOW CAN I TRUST ANY OF YOU?" MR. WIGGLES boomed, "HOW DO I KNOW YOU AREN'T ALL SLEEPER AGENTS?". Not taken aback by his paranoia, they all renewed their verbal efforts to persuade MR. WIGGLES, but to no effect. "SILENCE", MR. WIGGLES said, his voice becoming low, "I CANNOT TRUST THE INNOCENCE OF ANY OF YOU, AND I CANNOT ALLOW ANY SLEEPER AGENTS TO SURVIVE TO WREAK HAVOC. THEREFORE, YOU MUST ALL DIE, FOR FREEDOM, FOR JUSTICE, FOR AMERICA!". With that, MR. WIGGLES raised his open hand, now shining brightly with the power coursing through him. Some tried to run, while others tried to attack MR. WIGGLES, but it was hopeless. As they were lifted from the ground they screamed and struggled, trying to find some way to escape their fates, before MR. WIGGLES clenched his fist and the men before him disintegrated into fine red mist. "IT APPEARS MY WORK HERE IS DONE", and with that, MR. WIGGLES exited the room, entered his vehicle, and drove off into the sunset and the new adventures that awaited him. He was excited, for while sacrifices needed to be made, he could rest assured, that Liquidville was finally safe.
Ace is dead Brownbear is dead Eiii is dead Sandroba is dead Jackal58 is dead Impervious is dead
MR. WIGGLES wins!
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On May 06 2011 14:15 sandroba wrote: I was going for the extremelly pro-town aproach, so later I could push for people that made mistakes. That was the case for zorkmid (bumatlarge) and tnkted. I was really afraid of pointing out the discrepancies on tnkted's role claim, because I figure you guys would realize I looked very hard at it before making my own. I had to claim vet pretty quickly, else ace's claim wouldn't hold. I was planing to bus jackal the whole time, but every time some townie made a out-of-the-blue role claim, so I could switch to him at the last minute. GG town. Props to ace for his amazing play. When you said Ace's supposed message intercepts made it appear that the CL was an idiot I almost said fuck it and agreed with you. I almost posted my 2 messages in the thread and said "Ya you're right" and gave up right there. Do you know how much time I spent looking for who ever said "I hope you die" to me in all the games I've played here? When I got the PM from iGrok the message was simply titled Sleeper Cell. I opened it and read I hope you die I PMed him back asking him wtf I did. Ya I was confused.
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Sorry jackal, I thought you knew I was mafia and would forgive me for calling you an idiot, because I knew you were mafia too. That was all a farse. I wanted to distance from you as much as possible, so we would have a chance in late game no matter what.
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Sorry for replacing out guys, work really got to me.
Haven't read the thread since just after I replaced out, but I can't believe you survived to the end Ace
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I also never knew GGQ wa mafia, He was behaving so weird that i figured him to be blue and shot him on night 2. I guess it turned out okay. My sohots were: 1 zorkmid - after his outburst I was pretty convinced he was DT 2 GGQ -I thought he was 100% blue. LoL this suprised the hell out of me. 3 Varpulis - I had the exact same thought process of impervious. I was hoping to be able to push Imprevious based on his night post, but then he hugged ace and it was all alright.
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On May 06 2011 14:31 sandroba wrote: Sorry jackal, I thought you knew I was mafia and would forgive me for calling you an idiot, because I knew you were mafia too. That was all a farse. I wanted to distance from you as much as possible, so we would have a chance in late game no matter what. I had no idea. Ace turned my head into mush. I'm just disappointed nobody believed my Ace's role is bullshit claim. I think I had Impervious looking at it for a bit. But in the end everybody chose to believe Ace's unbelievable claim. I knew it was a bullshit claim and I was scum.
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On May 06 2011 14:56 sandroba wrote: I also never knew GGQ wa mafia, He was behaving so weird that i figured him to be blue and shot him on night 2. I guess it turned out okay. My sohots were: 1 zorkmid - after his outburst I was pretty convinced he was DT 2 GGQ -I thought he was 100% blue. LoL this suprised the hell out of me. 3 Varpulis - I had the exact same thought process of impervious. I was hoping to be able to push Imprevious based on his night post, but then he hugged ace and it was all alright. My votes went night 1 - Ace. He's just scary good. Night 2 - GGQ He was starting to FoS me pretty good. Night 3 - Ace. By that time I was pretty sure he was the CL and it was just a big FU right back at him.
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This gotta be one of the best played scum games around here, scum killed more scum than town did, and town got manipulated into lynching two power roles.
Was very interesting to follow, gg all
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Hey guys, poll time!
Poll: Would you like to play this setup again?Yes! (6) 75% Yes, but with more people! (2) 25% No :( (0) 0% 8 total votes Your vote: Would you like to play this setup again? (Vote): Yes! (Vote): Yes, but with more people! (Vote): No :(
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On May 06 2011 14:56 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 14:31 sandroba wrote: Sorry jackal, I thought you knew I was mafia and would forgive me for calling you an idiot, because I knew you were mafia too. That was all a farse. I wanted to distance from you as much as possible, so we would have a chance in late game no matter what. I had no idea. Ace turned my head into mush. I'm just disappointed nobody believed my Ace's role is bullshit claim. I think I had Impervious looking at it for a bit. But in the end everybody chose to believe Ace's unbelievable claim. I knew it was a bullshit claim and I was scum. Yea, actually, as soon as Ace claimed I realized it was a possibility. At the same time, it made too much sense. -_-
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Goddammit. I had all 3 of you pinned as scum but couldn't convince town due to my inactivity and darm's scumtitude.
Ah well, GG. Ace - it is ridiculously hard to argue against you in that situation. I had to prevent myself from raging so many times ^^
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It didn't exactly help when you didn't say anything until so late..... The game was pretty much sealed a while ago.....
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Yeah. For the record, I never thought San/Ace were town 100%. I should've just tried to lynch one, but I thought I could wait because BB was the third. I was actually thinking they were pretty scummy on the last day, where San kept coming in with Ace to push things, but I thought it was a bus, so I didn't say anything. Oh well, I haven't played green in like months, haha, so I'm pretty bad at it. I'll take responsibility for town getting raped. :p
Thanks to the hosts for hosting, I had a lot of fun. Hopefully if we try again, there'll be less modkills, but it was still amusing. Thanks!
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On May 06 2011 13:30 iGrok wrote: Regarding the Bullet-proof townie Miller role:
This was town's failsafe. This is the guy who should be drawing all kinds of hits and never claim unless checked. He can claim a blue role, do awesome scum analysis, w/e, just draw the hits and make the game last longer. That's his goal. I thought tnkted did pretty well as it, even if he didn't draw any hits.
Yeah, I had seriously considered claiming blue but GM and Bum both claimed first and I absolutely did not want to let either of them counterclaim me. I was thinking about claiming medic but decided against it since I wouldn't be able to protect anyone and I didn't want to say "oh i protected this person" and then have that person die.
GG, well played mafia. I didn't think san was scum at all!
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You should have claimed medic lol I was very suprised tnk didn't get hit. I think the best way to lure hits is to be extremely active and have 1 person high on your scum list who you really doubt is actual mafia, and then mention with little certainty your actual scum list. Whether you get hit or not might tell you something. But I've never been a vet IIRC so I might just be loopy.
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On May 07 2011 00:37 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 14:56 Jackal58 wrote:On May 06 2011 14:31 sandroba wrote: Sorry jackal, I thought you knew I was mafia and would forgive me for calling you an idiot, because I knew you were mafia too. That was all a farse. I wanted to distance from you as much as possible, so we would have a chance in late game no matter what. I had no idea. Ace turned my head into mush. I'm just disappointed nobody believed my Ace's role is bullshit claim. I think I had Impervious looking at it for a bit. But in the end everybody chose to believe Ace's unbelievable claim. I knew it was a bullshit claim and I was scum. Yea, actually, as soon as Ace claimed I realized it was a possibility. At the same time, it made too much sense. -_- I had the advantage of knowing I voted to kill GGQ (sorry dude) and when he came up dead I knew it wasn't a coincidence. That's when I began to realize I was being left in the dark on purpose.
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On May 07 2011 06:45 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 00:37 Impervious wrote:On May 06 2011 14:56 Jackal58 wrote:On May 06 2011 14:31 sandroba wrote: Sorry jackal, I thought you knew I was mafia and would forgive me for calling you an idiot, because I knew you were mafia too. That was all a farse. I wanted to distance from you as much as possible, so we would have a chance in late game no matter what. I had no idea. Ace turned my head into mush. I'm just disappointed nobody believed my Ace's role is bullshit claim. I think I had Impervious looking at it for a bit. But in the end everybody chose to believe Ace's unbelievable claim. I knew it was a bullshit claim and I was scum. Yea, actually, as soon as Ace claimed I realized it was a possibility. At the same time, it made too much sense. -_- I had the advantage of knowing I voted to kill GGQ (sorry dude) and when he came up dead I knew it wasn't a coincidence. That's when I began to realize I was being left in the dark on purpose. It was one of those things where everything had to come together for it to work right..... And it did..... And it made the entire town look foolish.
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town lost cause i was lynched
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On May 07 2011 06:45 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 00:37 Impervious wrote:On May 06 2011 14:56 Jackal58 wrote:On May 06 2011 14:31 sandroba wrote: Sorry jackal, I thought you knew I was mafia and would forgive me for calling you an idiot, because I knew you were mafia too. That was all a farse. I wanted to distance from you as much as possible, so we would have a chance in late game no matter what. I had no idea. Ace turned my head into mush. I'm just disappointed nobody believed my Ace's role is bullshit claim. I think I had Impervious looking at it for a bit. But in the end everybody chose to believe Ace's unbelievable claim. I knew it was a bullshit claim and I was scum. Yea, actually, as soon as Ace claimed I realized it was a possibility. At the same time, it made too much sense. -_- I had the advantage of knowing I voted to kill GGQ (sorry dude) and when he came up dead I knew it wasn't a coincidence. That's when I began to realize I was being left in the dark on purpose.
I thought when I told you "I hope you die" that was clear enough :D
On May 07 2011 03:21 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Yeah. For the record, I never thought San/Ace were town 100%. I should've just tried to lynch one, but I thought I could wait because BB was the third. I was actually thinking they were pretty scummy on the last day, where San kept coming in with Ace to push things, but I thought it was a bus, so I didn't say anything. Oh well, I haven't played green in like months, haha, so I'm pretty bad at it. I'll take responsibility for town getting raped. :p
Thanks to the hosts for hosting, I had a lot of fun. Hopefully if we try again, there'll be less modkills, but it was still amusing. Thanks!
If you thought it was a bus should have pointed it out. Just an FYI as something I do when I play scum, since it's done on purpose to deal with people that play town by vote and motive checking.
When I'm scum and you should try it when you're Scum - get your team on different "sides" of the town. This game it seemed like myself and sandroba were "allied" to Wiggles at one point, in agreement with Impervious later on, and never in agreement with bum or Jackal. This is a simplified example since the game was much more fluid than I suggest but I hope you get the point.
As town one of the best ways of catching Scum is grouping people based on what they agree on. Which is why sometimes you'll hear me say something about generating discussion like policy lynch or believing someone's claim. Once this happens then you can make sure that people's votes follow what they said. Then it also becomes easier to look at motives. For example: If bum and Jackal largely agree on bum's claim, then Jackal votes for bum, or doesn't vote for someone who disagrees with bum that doesn't have a good reason to then Jackal "stands out". As scum this is why it's helpful to get multiple players on different sides especially when they can argue: In the event someone gets caught in the "wrong group" if their motives and reasoning match their votes they just appear to be a townie that made a wrong play.
All in all THIS is why of all the things in the game the one thing no one can argue about is where they placed their vote. If you're town and you have extra information then use this to pin Scum. If you're Scum before you vote just make sure your reasoning holds up. If the town has Vigilantes that look to votes or likes to hunt by eliminating players in a group you'll be sorry.
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On May 08 2011 03:52 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:45 Jackal58 wrote:On May 07 2011 00:37 Impervious wrote:On May 06 2011 14:56 Jackal58 wrote:On May 06 2011 14:31 sandroba wrote: Sorry jackal, I thought you knew I was mafia and would forgive me for calling you an idiot, because I knew you were mafia too. That was all a farse. I wanted to distance from you as much as possible, so we would have a chance in late game no matter what. I had no idea. Ace turned my head into mush. I'm just disappointed nobody believed my Ace's role is bullshit claim. I think I had Impervious looking at it for a bit. But in the end everybody chose to believe Ace's unbelievable claim. I knew it was a bullshit claim and I was scum. Yea, actually, as soon as Ace claimed I realized it was a possibility. At the same time, it made too much sense. -_- I had the advantage of knowing I voted to kill GGQ (sorry dude) and when he came up dead I knew it wasn't a coincidence. That's when I began to realize I was being left in the dark on purpose. I thought when I told you "I hope you die" that was clear enough :D Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 03:21 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Yeah. For the record, I never thought San/Ace were town 100%. I should've just tried to lynch one, but I thought I could wait because BB was the third. I was actually thinking they were pretty scummy on the last day, where San kept coming in with Ace to push things, but I thought it was a bus, so I didn't say anything. Oh well, I haven't played green in like months, haha, so I'm pretty bad at it. I'll take responsibility for town getting raped. :p
Thanks to the hosts for hosting, I had a lot of fun. Hopefully if we try again, there'll be less modkills, but it was still amusing. Thanks!
If you thought it was a bus should have pointed it out. Just an FYI as something I do when I play scum, since it's done on purpose to deal with people that play town by vote and motive checking. When I'm scum and you should try it when you're Scum - get your team on different "sides" of the town. This game it seemed like myself and sandroba were "allied" to Wiggles at one point, in agreement with Impervious later on, and never in agreement with bum or Jackal. This is a simplified example since the game was much more fluid than I suggest but I hope you get the point. As town one of the best ways of catching Scum is grouping people based on what they agree on. Which is why sometimes you'll hear me say something about generating discussion like policy lynch or believing someone's claim. Once this happens then you can make sure that people's votes follow what they said. Then it also becomes easier to look at motives. For example: If bum and Jackal largely agree on bum's claim, then Jackal votes for bum, or doesn't vote for someone who disagrees with bum that doesn't have a good reason to then Jackal "stands out". As scum this is why it's helpful to get multiple players on different sides especially when they can argue: In the event someone gets caught in the "wrong group" if their motives and reasoning match their votes they just appear to be a townie that made a wrong play. All in all THIS is why of all the things in the game the one thing no one can argue about is where they placed their vote. If you're town and you have extra information then use this to pin Scum. If you're Scum before you vote just make sure your reasoning holds up. If the town has Vigilantes that look to votes or likes to hunt by eliminating players in a group you'll be sorry.
That's good advice, thanks.
I need to practice scum-hunting, because like I said, I haven't been town for long in a game for months it seems, I'm pretty rusty. :p
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I tried to bring up the policy lynch thing pretty early, for that reason. Discussion died out way too quickly, and when it came time to actually lynch Jackal as a policy lynch, the town split..... And I'm pretty sure Ace had some part in derailing that type of discussion.....
I don't think I made any mistakes in this game, based on the info I had, so I'm pretty happy. Sucks that it turned into such a one-sided affair.....
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My scumdar still needs callibrating... I had solid reads on both scum the first game I played, but I'm starting to realize that it was because those scum were really bad. the Ace + Sandroba claim trick had me fooled completely.
This was a great learning experience. Good game guys!
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Ace took a massive gamble with his fake claim, and it paid off. If there was actually a vet in the game, well, things would have turned out a lot differently.
Depending on who claimed vet, I was actually going to counterclaim their vet claim, and play for the lynch of Ace and whoever it was. Sandroba was one of the people I had a town reading of at the time, and when he claimed Vet, I was far more certain that both were legit claims than fake claims. It was a brilliant play, and it worked out really, really well.
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If you counter claim Vet and die then it makes the fake claim look stronger. There are very rare circumstances where lying as town does more good than harm.
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Yea, except it could have helped seal your fates earlier. I was positive you and Jackal were scum early on, I just couldn't find a way to convince anyone else..... That would have given me at least something to work with.
And, if it failed, well, we just proved that we would have lost anyways, so what would it have mattered?
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I wouldn't have pushed for your lynch, I would have pushed for sandroba's lynch instead. I could easily argue that the worst case scenario of him telling the truth would be a lynch of a townie rather than a vet, and we would confirm the undercover agent role at the same time.
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could have, but then it comes down to 3 people lying and none of us being able to prove anything about our roles.
So how does the town pick out who is Scum?
And it does matter. Even though you lost it wasn't like we rampaged through the town. When GGQ died it just so happened that I already had a fakeclaim ready AND sandroba fake claimed.
On May 08 2011 04:57 Impervious wrote: I wouldn't have pushed for your lynch, I would have pushed for sandroba's lynch instead. I could easily argue that the worst case scenario of him telling the truth would be a lynch of a townie rather than a vet, and we would confirm the undercover agent role at the same time.
Explain this would work out? I think I know what you're saying but I need to see the scenario played out.
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well, not sandroba specifically, but whoever claimed it instead of you.
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I'm glad it worked. =) I got pretty desperate when ace suddenly claimed to have hit GGQ. I don't know why he had the blind trust that I would claim vet, because he didn't even send me a msg about it. I was like, shit, should I claim? What if some other mafia claim at the same time? But if I don't claim fast it won't hold the same weight! Shit shit shit LOL
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The death of GGQ was what really helped sell your role though. It relied on sandroba claiming vet (or at least someone who appeared to be town friendly, but who was actually the 3rd mafia).
Your role had a bunch of holes in it, and sandroba's claim was essentially ripped off of another mafia game (I had a writeup and name of the role ready, that was related to the game at hand), and without the actual death of GGQ, I wouldn't have bought it. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
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The worst case scenario of lynching sandroba (if I counterclaimed) would be that his hit is gone, so he's essentially a normal townie. By lynching him, we get to determine if you were lying and are red, or if you were telling the truth and are blue. It's a pretty solid policy lynch, because we could determine it without actually having to kill you.
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On May 08 2011 05:03 Impervious wrote: The death of GGQ was what really helped sell your role though. It relied on sandroba claiming vet (or at least someone who appeared to be town friendly, but who was actually the 3rd mafia).
Your role had a bunch of holes in it, and sandroba's claim was essentially ripped off of another mafia game (I had a writeup and name of the role ready, that was related to the game at hand), and without the actual death of GGQ, I wouldn't have bought it. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. If I were town I would have been blowing a nut at you guys believing Ace's claim. To the point of getting lynched. A judge/jury/executioner role does not exist. And you guys bought it even though I called bs multiple times. That's probably why you bought it.
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It didn't help, that's for sure.
Then again, he did specify a downside - if he didn't hit a red, he himself would be killed. It wasn't a super role of any kind.
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Man, when someone quoted Igrok's day post I really thought we were fucked.
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Yeah I'm amazed jackal never got lynched, and I'm amazed that Ace's claim went through despite contradicting the flavour of the day post.
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Lol, then the host said it was flavor, rather than set-in-stone truth.
The chances that the 2 mafia who could vote for GGQ and actually did was so small -_-
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United States2186 Posts
Yeah this should definitely be a reference for how to play as mafia. Very impressive job.
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On May 08 2011 15:31 Ver wrote: Yeah this should definitely be a reference for how to play as mafia. Very impressive job. A complete how too and how not too guide.
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@Imprevious That didn't necessarily have to be the case. Only one mafia could have voted for GGQ and the rest on non conflicting players, and ace could have chosen to kill GGQ.
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GJ iGrok + chaoser, this looked like a really awesome game. Well played mafia as well.
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