On April 11 2011 01:18 Barundar wrote: Honestly Jackal, you want to leave our first lynch to be decided by a non-town player? We have a role in the pardoner that gives him the protection he needs to act as vigi for him, and pardoner is more of a mafia role than a town role anyways. He can have that, but mayor is too powerful to let a third party have.
I agree that it's great to have a non-scum player in office, but it's not irrelevant that Protactinum has a different win condition. For Protactinum to win, he needs to prolong the game untill he have killed all the other assassins. If town is too far ahead, it will be in his interest to slow us down, and vice verca when scum is ahead. Since he will work against us when we are ahead, he will not win the game for us, no matter how great an analyst he is.
His hands are basically tied on the lynch. He votes for who town puts forth or he gets lynched. He is in a lylo on day 1. If it gets to the point where we are that far ahead that he's a detriment to town we no longer need him anyways so again he's in a lylo. He is forced into being pro town or losing.
this is exactly what the mafia wants btw
a mayor who they can manipulate, force his votes to go the way they want to get him lynched (waste of town KP on a useless role like assassin and also ridding town of mayor).
On April 11 2011 01:18 Barundar wrote: Honestly Jackal, you want to leave our first lynch to be decided by a non-town player? We have a role in the pardoner that gives him the protection he needs to act as vigi for him, and pardoner is more of a mafia role than a town role anyways. He can have that, but mayor is too powerful to let a third party have.
I agree that it's great to have a non-scum player in office, but it's not irrelevant that Protactinum has a different win condition. For Protactinum to win, he needs to prolong the game untill he have killed all the other assassins. If town is too far ahead, it will be in his interest to slow us down, and vice verca when scum is ahead. Since he will work against us when we are ahead, he will not win the game for us, no matter how great an analyst he is.
His hands are basically tied on the lynch. He votes for who town puts forth or he gets lynched. He is in a lylo on day 1. If it gets to the point where we are that far ahead that he's a detriment to town we no longer need him anyways so again he's in a lylo. He is forced into being pro town or losing.
this is exactly what the mafia wants btw
a mayor who they can manipulate, force his votes to go the way they want to get him lynched (waste of town KP on a useless role like assassin and also ridding town of mayor).
I think scum want to be mayor first and foremost.
yeah and having an assassin mayor is really the next best thing
On April 11 2011 02:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote: hey can anyone explain why the fuck you would vote for protact are you mafia or just stupid
chaoser and redFF WHY
Honestly just out of all the candidates so far, he is the only one who i think i can safely say is not scum. He is also 2 kills for town and one check, so having him in a protected position means he will help town with these powers, or be lynched. Anything to keep 3 votes out of scum hands seems good to me. The only thing that could go wrong would be him trying to direct lynches to people he thinks are assassins, but as soon as town figures this out (which wouldn't take long) he would be lynched himself.
On April 11 2011 01:18 Barundar wrote: Honestly Jackal, you want to leave our first lynch to be decided by a non-town player? We have a role in the pardoner that gives him the protection he needs to act as vigi for him, and pardoner is more of a mafia role than a town role anyways. He can have that, but mayor is too powerful to let a third party have.
I agree that it's great to have a non-scum player in office, but it's not irrelevant that Protactinum has a different win condition. For Protactinum to win, he needs to prolong the game untill he have killed all the other assassins. If town is too far ahead, it will be in his interest to slow us down, and vice verca when scum is ahead. Since he will work against us when we are ahead, he will not win the game for us, no matter how great an analyst he is.
His hands are basically tied on the lynch. He votes for who town puts forth or he gets lynched. He is in a lylo on day 1. If it gets to the point where we are that far ahead that he's a detriment to town we no longer need him anyways so again he's in a lylo. He is forced into being pro town or losing.
this is exactly what the mafia wants btw
a mayor who they can manipulate, force his votes to go the way they want to get him lynched (waste of town KP on a useless role like assassin and also ridding town of mayor).
I think scum want to be mayor first and foremost.
yeah and having an assassin mayor is really the next best thing
And having a scum mayor is the worst case scenario for town. And I'm aware that Protactinum may be scum not assassin. If he is he has balls bigger than he's already been given credit for.
I honestly think towns best interest in this is to keep scum from getting the mayors seat.
No it doesn't. Protract could still be scum. For those who say that there is no way he would take that kind of risk, there are 8 scum. It could be a high risk, high reward kind of situation. Either way, as mayor he would not have the towns best intentions at mind, which is something you shouldn't be supporting.
I agree with this. When protract doesnt get elected if he dies night 1 there is no real harm to us. Its a side game. It would be nice to have the extra kp's but is it worth it if a mafia gets into mayor or pardoner? NO
Can you lynch the mayor with out killing the bodyguards?
[QUOTE]On April 10 2011 17:21 kitaman27 wrote: [QUOTE]On April 10 2011 17:11 chaoser wrote: [QUOTE]On April 10 2011 17:05 DropBear wrote: I forgot to highlight the bit saying unless you actively lynch assassins, he doesn't win. Basically, he wants us to lynch assassin's for him. [QUOTE]On April 10 2011 16:06 kitaman27 wrote: [QUOTE]On April 10 2011 16:02 Protactinium wrote: I don't need to and I don't care to lynch other Assassins. I shoot them at night with my last bullet. [/quote] I stopped reading here. The assassin, whose goal is the kill other assassins, is trying to tell us he doesn't want to lynch assassins.[/QUOTE] Good point by Kita. You are going to direct lynches at them, yes you are not. There is pretty blatant contradiction here. More thoughts to follow.[/QUOTE]
He does win, he doesn't need to lynch assassins to win, he just needs them to all be dead. Whether that's from his own KP, mafia's KP or lynch, doesn't matter. The moment we think he's not playing "pro-town" we can lynch him. [/QUOTE]
Can we afford to lynch him? Imagine this scenario: he's mayor, and there's one other assassin. In this situation, could we afford to lynch him? It's unlikely. The other assassin wins at that point.
[QUOTE]On April 10 2011 23:21 Jackal58 wrote: No voting thread yet??? Is Bum hosting this? The timing is all fucked up.
##VOTE: Protactinum for mayor
And I don't know how you guys think you're voting for a pardoner. Pardoner is the first loser in the mayor race. Stop voting for a pardoner cause you aren't voting for anybody. That race doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]
Jackal makes a good point here. The voting thread bit also made me giggle.
[QUOTE]On April 11 2011 01:02 Jackal58 wrote: The mayor role at endgame will decide who wins. If scum have it they autolynch town we lose. If town have it there is still the chance of a mislynch. I'm more comfy with that scenario but I still see it as problematic. If GMarshall is mayor that percentage of mislynching goes up exponentially. The best case scenario is having no mayor to fuck things up at endgame. Using his dt ability and two extra kp directed by town are both town pluses. Having a mayor that meets his win condition and leaves early is also a plus. It totally removes another uncertainty from the game.[/QUOTE]
So, having an assassin meet wincon doesn't end the game? However, I personally cannot trust an assassin and as such, I will not vote him for mayor.
[QUOTE]On April 11 2011 02:44 kitaman27 wrote: Suppose you are an assassin. What gives you the best chance to hit the other assassins:
a) Give up two of your kp to town and hope your 1/40 shot hits the other assassins b) Use all three kp to try and hit assassins
This should be pretty obvious. He has little incentive to help town once he actually is elected.
As mayor, he will lynch and vote against assassin suspects. Town does not want this.
As pardoner, he will never pardon.
[...]
[QUOTE]On April 10 2011 20:26 aidnai wrote: BTW kavdragon is a stupid day one lynch. He's a damn good liar, but if anybody had bothered to to behavioural analysis it should have been obvious he was not town last game -_-. He'll be active and a fairly easy read in another day or two.
Plus there's still like a dozen people that haven't even posted yet...[/QUOTE]
This is a total flip in philosophy from pregame. Siblings sticking up for each other? I might have to keep an eye on you.[/QUOTE]
Who are the siblings?
Also, I agree with Kita on the Protact issue, really. I also agree with Dr.H as well.
TL keeps crashing for me so I'm having issues catching up.
No it doesn't. Protract could still be scum. For those who say that there is no way he would take that kind of risk, there are 8 scum. It could be a high risk, high reward kind of situation. Either way, as mayor he would not have the towns best intentions at mind, which is something you shouldn't be supporting.
I agree with this. When protract doesnt get elected if he dies night 1 there is no real harm to us. Its a side game. It would be nice to have the extra kp's but is it worth it if a mafia gets into mayor or pardoner? NO
Can you lynch the mayor with out killing the bodyguards?
Mayor You are not immune to lynching.
That goes for Pardoner, too, which I think is where Protact should get elected to. If he doesn't or can't hit/rolecheck who we want, we could assume he's scum. Best case scenario we lynch a godfather, worst case we lynch an assassin. I'm still pretty certain that's he's black, though.
what would be the incentive for an assassin to pardon ANYONE.. he would never do it. every flip is viable to him.every flip gives him a chance of killing assassin. why would he stop a flip you guys are fucking insane.
Alright protact I see you points, I'm not going to vote for you, but I won't actively oppose you either. I do not think you have the town's best interests at heart and I think that your whole "I'm in it for the glory" spiel is an attempt to manipulate the town. But you *are* one of the best analysts around, and I wouldn't object to having you by my side as a pardoner, assuming you actually wanted to help the town. Frankly I'm torn so I think it best to let the town choose
Regarding my "I'll lynch the most inactive player" I think I'm going to redact that to "I'll lynch the player who I feel is lurking the most" by lurking I mean posting content-less posts while trying to appear pro town. Is that ok with everyone? Or would you guys prefer if I just hit the most inactive person?
No it doesn't. Protract could still be scum. For those who say that there is no way he would take that kind of risk, there are 8 scum. It could be a high risk, high reward kind of situation. Either way, as mayor he would not have the towns best intentions at mind, which is something you shouldn't be supporting.
I agree with this. When protract doesnt get elected if he dies night 1 there is no real harm to us. Its a side game. It would be nice to have the extra kp's but is it worth it if a mafia gets into mayor or pardoner? NO
Can you lynch the mayor with out killing the bodyguards?
That goes for Pardoner, too, which I think is where Protact should get elected to. If he doesn't or can't hit/rolecheck who we want, we could assume he's scum. Best case scenario we lynch a godfather, worst case we lynch an assassin. I'm still pretty certain that's he's black, though.
Even better, we don't elect him and he gets offed night one. That's 2 kp we don't have to worry about from Protact and another kp from the assassin that kills him. In addition, the assassin game will end much quicker. With four scum kp and 3 assassin kp thats 7 kp per night. Do we honestly want to shorten the game so much? The longer the game lasts, the better chance town has of winning.
On April 11 2011 03:31 Coagulation wrote: what would be the incentive for an assassin to pardon ANYONE.. he would never do it. every flip is viable to him.every flip gives him a chance of killing assassin. why would he stop a flip you guys are fucking insane.
Glad we agree! Votes on me as your anti-Protact candidate! ^_^
DOCH - seems to be aggressive. Doch has a pretty agressive mafia play style.. i dunno if hes mafia in this game but its worth mentioning. Kav - I dont see anything super scummy about how he has played so far. cant blame Doch for pressuring him tho. Flamewheel - ROFL Anyone honestly considering putting a player with non town win condition in as mayor is fucking nuts. GM - hes an active contributor. also hes easy to read. hes pretty much the only one beside Twinkles that gives me a good town read so far. Im not sure i want him as mayor considering his history of scumhunting.
On April 11 2011 03:34 GMarshal wrote: Alright protact I see you points, I'm not going to vote for you, but I won't actively oppose you either. I do not think you have the town's best interests at heart and I think that your whole "I'm in it for the glory" spiel is an attempt to manipulate the town. But you *are* one of the best analysts around, and I wouldn't object to having you by my side as a pardoner, assuming you actually wanted to help the town. Frankly I'm torn so I think it best to let the town choose
Regarding my "I'll lynch the most inactive player" I think I'm going to redact that to "I'll lynch the player who I feel is lurking the most" by lurking I mean posting content-less posts while trying to appear pro town. Is that ok with everyone? Or would you guys prefer if I just hit the most inactive person?
Mayor should take a stand. If you "do not think he has the town's best interest at heart", then you should oppose him. You're trying to make sure you don't upset anyone, rather than trying to lead.
On April 11 2011 03:31 Coagulation wrote: what would be the incentive for an assassin to pardon ANYONE.. he would never do it. every flip is viable to him.every flip gives him a chance of killing assassin. why would he stop a flip you guys are fucking insane.
Can you direct me to a point in a game where a pardon was vital and game-changing? As far as I understand it, people are lynched because they're voted for. If you don't think someone should be lynched, don't vote for them. I'm wary of anyone ever using a pardon, so if we get someone who will never use it then I'm for that until someone can show me why it's not a plus.
I'd rather not have a single player with the ability to say "You know what? No." If he feels a lynch is wrong, he should convince enough people of the same thing.
1)protact isn't town 2)he has no incentive to do anything for us 3)a mayor that does whatever "Town" tells him to do out of fear of lynch is a TERRIBLE mayor 4)protact could just as well be making a very ballsy scum bluff
imo the mayor should be me or Gmarshal. I get the strongest town read from Gmarshal right now. We shouldn't be so petrified of having a mafia mayor that we elect a worthless third party mayor. We have no incentive to keep protact alive, he has no incentive to help us, we're basically just discarding the role of mayor out of fear.
On April 11 2011 01:18 Barundar wrote: Honestly Jackal, you want to leave our first lynch to be decided by a non-town player? We have a role in the pardoner that gives him the protection he needs to act as vigi for him, and pardoner is more of a mafia role than a town role anyways. He can have that, but mayor is too powerful to let a third party have.
I agree that it's great to have a non-scum player in office, but it's not irrelevant that Protactinum has a different win condition. For Protactinum to win, he needs to prolong the game untill he have killed all the other assassins. If town is too far ahead, it will be in his interest to slow us down, and vice verca when scum is ahead. Since he will work against us when we are ahead, he will not win the game for us, no matter how great an analyst he is.
His hands are basically tied on the lynch. He votes for who town puts forth or he gets lynched. He is in a lylo on day 1. If it gets to the point where we are that far ahead that he's a detriment to town we no longer need him anyways so again he's in a lylo. He is forced into being pro town or losing.
this is exactly what the mafia wants btw
a mayor who they can manipulate, force his votes to go the way they want to get him lynched (waste of town KP on a useless role like assassin and also ridding town of mayor).
I think scum want to be mayor first and foremost.
yeah and having an assassin mayor is really the next best thing
And having a scum mayor is the worst case scenario for town. And I'm aware that Protactinum may be scum not assassin. If he is he has balls bigger than he's already been given credit for.
I honestly think towns best interest in this is to keep scum from getting the mayors seat.
I don't understand this. You admit protact could very well be scum yet you're voting for him because you just want a non-scum mayor. I think our focus should be getting a pro-town mayor.
GMarshal are you going to lynch kavdragon/mib if you're elected? PLease do
EPT
He is just referring to Aidnai and Kavdragon, who are brothers.
